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How do they know Bigfoot's not a vegan?

See, I don't know. I mean, but I think he's got canines like us, so there's a good chance that he does eat meat. I think hunters are the number one argument against Bigfoot being real. I've never met a hunter who's seen Bigfoot. No, and especially some of your guests you've had on. I mean, even myself, and now you spend a lot of time in some pretty desolate places. Yeah. And all the trail cameras. We should have gotten one picture. Yeah, trail cameras throw a big monkey wrench at that Bigfoot.

I agree. And I'm always still, you know, the conspiracy that I'm still every time I check, especially when you get in those deep, dark places out west and all throughout the country and even the south. I'm thinking maybe just this time. It would be fun. It would be fun. But it's just.

It's very unlikely. I mean, there's only like two jaguars in the United States and they know exactly where they are. Well, that's exactly right. I was thinking back and even listening, you know, like you've had Rinella, of course, Cam, a lot of my hunting buddies and people I look up to as well, Remy Warren, all those guys. And you start thinking about the amount of time we spend in the woods and we don't even see a mountain lion. You talk about the wolves. All these wolves are starting to be reintroduced and you still don't see them a lot of times. They're there.

But then again, you capture them on trail cameras in the middle of the night. But yet Yeti or Sasquatch, only Jack Link's beef jerky has seen him. I saw him on the Super Bowl commercial. Yeah, they're in a lot of commercials. They're in movies. I think they used to be real. I think it used to be a real thing. I mean, they know there's a thing called the Gigantopithecus that lived somewhere around 100,000 years ago. There was a bipedal hominid that was 8 to 10 feet tall. Holy crap.

Holy cow. In the orangutan family, I think they believe it was. That'd be something to get Graham Hancock on. We need to get him back to find that creature. He's busy. He's busy with a lot of other shit. It's like just trying to sort out the past.

trying to sort out human history that was some of the most intriguing i i was dug deep into that and then went because of hearing him on the podcast and went and watched just finished season two watch season one soon after i'd seen him here first it's pretty compelling it's pretty amazingly compelling yeah well once you realize first of all that

There's real physical evidence that something happened around 11,800 years ago that the Earth was most likely pounded with asteroid debris. Yeah. And it probably fucked civilization up pretty bad and it can happen again. Makes complete sense. Yeah. I mean, hearing his perspective on it and how he researched it, and it's from the standpoint there's...

You know, as we know, politics and everything gets involved in everything, you know, and it's just almost like he was a journalistic, really smart intellectual guy who was intrigued. It's just a good approach the way he studied it to me that made it even more compelling. And then the findings he did find were.

I don't know. I just I was very intrigued. You know how he really got into it? No. He got into it researching the Ark of the Covenant. Really? Yeah. Because in Ethiopia, there's a specific church in Ethiopia that has always been rumored to be the place where the Ark of the Covenant is stored.

And there's these guarders of this, these people that are guards of this area. And they all develop cataracts. They all have like radiation poisoning. And they're guarding this one particular area. They won't let anybody look at it. They won't let anybody talk about it. And Graham got fascinated by this.

And then he started doing a deep dive into history and historical accounts of the covenant and the ark and all these bizarre stories that have lasted throughout history. And the

The real evidence that there was really sophisticated societies that lived thousands and thousands of years ago when we kind of assumed that people were hunters and gatherers. Egypt is a great example of that. Like whatever they were doing there was fucking insane. Right. I mean, the structures that they made still today, we look at them and go, what the hell were you guys doing? Yeah. How is this made? Yeah. And he believes that society had reached a very...

very sophisticated level of technological achievement and then something happened and now we're we're living in like a rebuild even though we're very sophisticated you know in terms of technology

Our technology has gone in a completely different direction than theirs did. And where did Graham ever, in his conclusion, in some of that about the covenant, did he ever think that it's still there? They think it's still there, yeah. So some people thought it might have burned up in Jerusalem, I think it was. See if you can find where that is, Jamie. It's supposed to be in some church in Ethiopia. Oh, Jamie's already got it. I just had watched something on that because I'm intrigued by all that kind of stuff.

Well, you know, when you really start digging deep into it, it's very fascinating. This one particular place has been protected for so long and all these people that have –

supposedly seen it, describe something that's... You know, Trump apparently has like a model of the Ark of the Covenant in Mar-a-Lago. No way. Yeah, see if you can find that. Yeah, he's got like a recreation of the Ark of the Covenant in Mar-a-Lago. And that whole covenant was pretty cool based on how God had said, look, had an intervention saying, this is how big it's got to be. It was built out of a certain wood, inside and out, gold, the handles, everything...

was there to hold the commandments. But then I saw something to where, I don't know if Jamie and Mike can probably pull it up, but to where some people speculate it could be under the Catholic Church. I heard that. Like in the Vatican or something? In the Vatican, yeah. They got a lot of shit in the Vatican. Oh my goodness. Have you ever been there? No, I haven't. But I heard you talk about, you went and had the guide and said it was amazing. It's incredible. They have so much. They have billions of dollars in art. Like, where'd you guys steal all this from? Like, he's like...

Back in the Roman days. Look at this. This is Trump's replica of the Ark of the Covenant at Mar-a-Lago. That's just like... Pretty fucking wild. And it's almost exactly the replica of what?

It's assumed to have been looked like, you know. Well, I mean, I think that's a recreation based on biblical accounts. Absolutely. Very strange. Well, maybe Trump can take us and show it to us, man. That'd be cool. What did you say, Jamie? I was trying to figure out if, I mean, clearly it was there. It might have just been there temporarily. It looks like that might be like on display in Israel or something. I don't know.

So it's a replica that travels around, is that what it is? Temporarily, is that Mar-a-Lago? I can't find that it lives there, but there's definitely obviously people with pictures of it. Bro, if I had Trump money, I'd have one built. Oh, why not? Come on. I would too. I would too. It's a cool thing to have on display.

I mean, I wonder what it was. I mean, if these guys really are guarding it in Ethiopia, like, what is the radiation from? Like, why do they all get developing cataracts and radiation sickness? And we've all watched Harrison Ford try to find it. Exactly. Exactly. It's so fun. It is fun. All that ancient civilization stuff is so fun because it is really kind of a mystery, you know, and it's fascinating when, and I'm sure you've been hunting before and you found arrowheads. Yes.

Yes, a lot. When you find one of those, you're picking up this piece of history. You've got to imagine some Native American was napping this flint on his knee, sitting there who knows how many thousands of years ago. Exactly. They find 3,000, 4,000-year-old arrowheads, and you've just got to go, God.

What was life like then, man? Oh, I can only imagine. And like where I'm from in Georgia, and obviously you and I both love archery, but all the arrowheads I find are courts. So we have very little flint. And I'm not at all historically sound on understanding everything. I mean, I got friends. Actually, Jeff Foxworthy is one of those guys. He lives right down the road. He is obsessed with...

with Indian artifacts and has an amazing collection. It goes across the country. You know, it's hard. You can call Jeff right now. You probably can't get him to Austin to come do this.

But then all you got to do is tell them, hey, man, I just plowed up a field and it rained and we just found two nice flint heads. He'd probably be here tomorrow. I mean, he loves it. He's eat up with it. There's a dude I know has a ranch out here and he finds them all the time. It's Comanche territory where his ranch is in the hill country. And he every day go to that guy's page. Whitworth, J.W. Whitworth, J.M. Whitworth, J.W. Whitworth. I think it's J.W.,

But he's got incredible arrowheads. He's just obsessed with finding them on this ranch. And this ranch apparently was just overrun by the Comanche. It's very fertile and rich and soil is great and a lot of water habitat, a lot of deer. And so they must have just camped there and lived there for a long time. It's JM, but it's also private. Oh, it is? Oh, he's private now? That's probably because we blew him up. I think that's when he went private.

Because he didn't used to be private, but that's some of the things that he finds. See, that's amazingly beautiful stuff. He sent me a couple of them. There's a company I found. Actually, I was in Illinois at this. It was a beer and deer fest in Illinois, and I went by this booth. See, that is absolutely gorgeous. Yeah, Remy said that that was probably used for fishing.

Very well could have been. Because it's so large, you said it's probably used to shoot fish. It seems that a lot of the arrowheads are, you know, the ones that was actually attached to shoot with archery were a lot smaller. Like, you know, some people might argue that I don't know enough about it. Like, is it a spearhead? I found some heads. Like, look at this I found. Like, well, that's a spearhead or that's this or that. You find somebody like Remy or I got a friend named Ike Rainey who's really good.

uh, big into artifacts. And if you find something, what you think it is, it's kind of like the first time I hunted in Africa, I thought I'd shot a spring buck or a, I thought I'd shot a dyke, dyker. And it turned out it was a spring buck. It's like, Oh, okay. There's only 7,000 species of animals out here. So I think arrowheads are the same way. It's just, it's amazing. But to think you're right. I mean, think of somebody sat down thousands and thousands of years and nap that out. And how many times did they not get it right? You can say that's perfect.

Yeah, they probably had to do a lot of them. A lot of them probably broke off wrong. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's probably not a very good success rate, especially when you're working with Flint and he's chipping away at it. But when they get good at it, it's such an art.

Yeah. Like when you pick one up, like a real flint arrowhead. God, so there's a lot of guys that make them now, though, unfortunately. So there's a lot of forgeries. Correct. Yeah. Correct. A lot of nerds, a lot of archery nerds. They get real good at it and then just leave them scattered around places or pretend they found it. You know? You could do that. Just almost, yeah. You totally could do that. But that's a legit one that was actually pulled out of the ground. It makes me less whine when, you know, like if you're out in Utah and you have success in elk woods and you're,

butchering an elk and trying to get them packed out when you're just having to resharpen your knives. Like, it's the least I can do is resharpen this knife. Right. I mean, these guys had to nap out ahead. I mean, how long did that take just to go hunt an elk, you know? Yeah, they lived for thousands of years with no metal.

Oh, I know. I'll tell you something that's interesting. We hunted in a place in Montana where we, it was on the Milk River and they had what they called a buffalo drop on this property. And, and so if you went to where this buffalo drop was, you could go to the base of it and you could find, there's not, there wasn't any much left now. We used to hunt back in the day, mostly in the, I hadn't been since 2000, I think it was seven or 2010 was the last time I had went out there.

But at the base of that, you used to find all kind of bones, you know, bison bones, you know, buffalo and stuff. But you would sometimes find these little tiny heads, right?

And they didn't look like this, which is interesting what Remy brought up. Maybe that was for fishing or something. I don't know. But all the heads we would find would be tiny little, almost like bird points is what I felt like I wanted to call them. I heard them called before. And supposedly what they did was is they didn't necessarily weren't trying to kill the buffalo. They would hurt them and they would just kind of peck them with the arrows. And then they would run the buffalo off of this cliff. And so...

It would basically die coming off the cliff. And it was so cool across the valley, you could still see all those stone rings to where supposedly the ladies or the squaws would sit there and look back. And as soon as the men basically had, you know, whatever amount of buffalo, I guess, over the drop, they would come and butcher. And the men would go back and, you know, smoke the peace pipe and –

Relax. So times have changed a lot. So I thought that was interesting. Remi was telling me about this one site where they had a buffalo drop and the pile of buffalo was so large and there was so much decay that it actually created a fire. Holy cow. It like started on fire because they're all just rotting and fermenting and there's some sort of combustion. And so the entire side of the cliff was black and

from these buffalo falling off of this place rotting and then created a fire yeah i mean i don't even know how that would work i don't either but i do know that those buffalo drops do exist and it's pretty fascinating and the place we're hunting is a you know private landowner he was a rancher had some cows and um he was very funny he did not want us to video on any of our episodes or anything to do and back then we were

video and I was working with Bill Jordan and we had a show on TNN back in the day and he's like do not bring your cameras I don't want any TV cameras around here because they'll come and

All of a sudden they'll set this up as a historical site. So he was really funny about it. So I don't even, I didn't even take a lot of pictures of it because I was always like, hey, you know, this guy didn't want us to take any pictures and talk about it. But man, every time I'd come back, you know, for morning hunt or we'd go scout, I'd come back and like, man, I want to go to Buffalo Drop. Like, you know, it's like a little kid, like a little 10 year old kid, Boy Scout. I'm like, look at this, here's a head or here's a buffalo horn or skull. And most of everything that would have been there,

had already been picked through because it was right off kind of a county road. And so most of the locals knew about it. And, of course, you know, he's had kids and grandkids. Just kind of rummaged through it. But it was pretty interesting. But every time you'd go, you'd find something. So it was really interesting. It just...

just really stretches your mind and your imagination to imagine living like that back then. And that these people, while, you know, Rome was being built, the Colosseum, Europe, all this, all these different places in the world, these people were living the same way people live tens of thousands of years ago, right here. It's crazy. And,

And now it seems like we're so far removed from it. But yet, as we talk about it, that romance hadn't left. And even getting a chance to chase a bull elk, there's still some amazing rural wild places out there that we can kind of revisit. And that was the first thing I noticed is all the Native American pictures you had. I hunt a lot with Native Americans, a lot with the Navajo Nation. I've become like family or they become like family to me. I go out there every year and

the resources they have. You know, I know Cam hunts a lot, you know, as a Muscularo and different, different places. And I don't know, man. And even sadly, even amongst the native, some of that culture is being lost, uh,

with them more. And so we even go out every year and do a hunt with their kids. We take 15 to 20 Navajo youth hunting every year out there with the Navajo Game and Fish. And they have a lot of mentors, Gloria Tom, who she's just stepping down, but she was the kind of in charge out there. And we would go and work with people like Jeff Cole and that whole Navajo Nation, the families, and we'd take just their kids out

The kids of the Navajo Nation hunting, and sadly enough, they're like a lot of kids in America eating Little Debbies and playing Xbox, you know. It's like, man, you've got 17 million acres in your backyard. Come on, bro. You're supposed to be the damn eagle. You've got to fly and dip down. I'm even out here at your room, and me too. I have all kind of Native Americans. My heroes were Native American hunters like Ishii, who taught Pope and Young how to

Bohunt. Oh, really? Yeah. Is she out of California? I think he come back and he basically taught those guys who were doctors, he introduced them to bow hunting. And then Pope and Young, as we kill an elk, we think, oh, is he big enough to go Pope and Young? Explain to people what Pope and Young is for people who don't know what we're talking about. Pope and Young is...

So basically Pope and Young were two guys that basically just kind of revolutionized archery as we know it a lot of times. I mean, obviously, throwing around names, you've got to talk about Fredbear and stuff like that. But prior to that, there was an Indian named Ishi out of a California tribe. And I'm not good enough at remembering exactly what tribe that was, but there's a lot of cool information that you can read. Obviously, if you ever get your hands on Saxton Pope and Arthur Young, any books, it's fascinating. Like my favorite book of all time is called The Adventurous Bowman.

A friend of mine, Jeff Johnson, who's a writer, gave it to me and I read it all the time. And even my kid, I read him that book at night, you know, and this talks about their first venture into Africa. And when they went there, when they hunted grizzly, when they hunted elk the first time. And so these guys were kind of based on what I can assume seemed to be pretty much city slickers who had basically a patient called Ishii who taught them how to

Hunt and pictures of him, you can still see him. He looks like he's dressed at a Ted Nugent concert in 1969, you know, jumping off the amps. And so, yeah. And so now that's become similar to Boone and Crockett.

uh pope and young is an organization that's formed around you know celebrating certain animals that are trophy aspect and if you get a you know say a whitetail deer that nets 125 inches on the pope and young scale you can enter them into the pope and young record books and every category of species like elk bear caribou moose so on so forth has that and so it's just kind of to celebrate a lot of the heritage of archery and so pope and young a lot of people don't know it but that

That basically is the basis of what it comes from. But it starts back to, guess what? A Native American, these Arrowheads, they passed it on. And so now we're kind of carrying on that same tradition. And so as a student of the game, it's like it's so cool to talk about it. There they are. Oh, look at that. Yeah. Wow. Look at that. That's cool. Is there any – can you find – Jamie, is that Ishii? That's Ishii and Saxton Pope right there. There's Ishii there. Can you imagine? Wow.

Look at that. So you're learning from the source. Yeah. I mean, they, and there's so many amazing stories. What year was this? Man, I don't even know. It had to have been in the, I don't know, was it 20s?

Or maybe 1900. I know it was early. You know what's fascinating when you think about what we enjoy, we enjoy archery. 1912. 1912. So that guy, you know, that is like he was alive in the 1800s. Absolutely. So he was doing that. Like that's literally from the source.

And there's another thing, and it's crazy to think about this, another thing I read and heard told, because obviously, you know, you travel around and it's always trying to figure out, you know, what's fact or fiction. But I'd listen to Casey Means on this podcast. We're talking about our food. Supposedly, Ishii who come in, who is actually living very primitive lives.

But come in, and once he started hanging around and got westernized, quickly got fat. Because I don't know if Little Debbie's was around then. No. It's the only thing I hated about the whole KC Meats. That whole podcast, I was like, man, I used to love a good oatmeal pie. Now I'm sitting here like, I don't know that glass of milk. Should I even partake? But I think he gained a lot of weight and started getting a lot sicker. And the food back then was so much better than the food we have now. Yeah. Just around a lot of people. And all of a sudden, he was trying to fight...

Probably viruses and diseases and getting an abundance of a certain food he wasn't used to. And supposedly, I think he got a little heavier and less healthy just being around. Probably a lot of grains and sugar. Probably, I'm sure. He was probably eating mostly meat before that. Probably so. Just a fish out of the creek and backstrap out of a mule deer. The way everybody did for thousands of years. It's just so interesting that if it wasn't for guys like Pope and Young and Fred Bear,

I mean, how many people were evangelizing bow hunting back then? I mean, how many people were making it something that was, you know, because as soon as rifles came along, the way everybody looked at it was, oh, rifles are better. You can shoot something further. It's easier to do. You hunt, you hunt with rifles.

But to make that choice, this decision that there's something more connected, more spiritual about archery and bow hunting. If it wasn't for those people that were promoting it, people like Fred Bear, who was so articulate in the way he would describe things and the way he would describe the benefits of just archery practice, about how archery just removes your cares.

If you could just concentrate on that target and just practice archery, it cleans your mind. And I find that today. I do, too. It's almost like you go back in time every time, even though we pick up these new Hoyt bows, you're like, oh, my God, look at the technology. It's a lot more accurate. It is. It's so much more accurate. And so –

Yeah, it's amazing. And you're just exactly right. It is spiritual. And to think back of where it was to where it is. But then you think about the rifles and the technology we have there. But keep in mind, I'm sure, you know, in those people who are really hunting for substance. Absolutely. If we leave tomorrow and we can't go and get us a nice steak dinner or we can't go to the grocery store and buy us some chicken or ribeye or whatever it is we decide to eat.

Well, absolutely. If we're like, hey, Joe, your wife and my wife is wanting us to kill a few squirrels and we're going to have squirrels and gravy. And my wife makes some good biscuits. It's like, why don't you know, let's leave the Hoyts at home. Let's take a 22 and a 410. Let's just go get us a mess of squirrel. Yeah. And so I think probably they looked at it that way. And once that came about and then it slowly becomes somewhat of a.

I hate to even say it as a sport because I don't look at it as a sport. It's a culture. I think it's a discipline. It's a discipline. But I think to know that we're still going back and celebrating that and still talking about issue and Pope and Young and the Fred Bears and what they set forth and even people like Chuck Adams, who was always one of my heroes. You know, Cam and I were talking a lot about that in Texas, just...

golly chuck adams was hunting these elk and always had that little green beanie shot those double x78 aras and man you what nobody is like you know all the kids and even me you know i was this little chubby white kid that thought if i bought air jordans i could jump higher and michael lied to me you're a liar jordan i can't jump any fast i can't run any faster but

You know, Chuck, when I saw those arrows and I'd see that bow, I was like, man, I've got to have that. I want to be like Chuck. You know, I want to be like Fred Bear. And so it's just amazing to see and to see that we still are celebrating it. Yeah. Well, it has a very deep connection to the human mind. There's something about archery that I think it's because –

As human beings evolved, you know, we developed the bow and arrow. They invented it. They refined it. And that was how people hunted and got their food. I think there's a genetic memory of that that's inside of our heads because there's like there's something eerily satisfying about hitting a target with an arrow.

It's so much different than anything. Like, I like practicing shooting rifles. I've hunted with rifles. I like it. I like it. It's great. Same here. It's not the same. It's not the same. It's not the same. It's like tenfold different. Yeah, it's...

It really is amazing. It's like every time, if I go rifle hunting, I love it. I mean, I absolutely love it. Still love the whole culture of it. I grew up in Georgia where, I mean, people were on these leases, you know, it'd be a Meade property, which was Timberland or Georgia Power Lease. There'd be 10 of us on 500 acres or sometimes more than that. And so, you know, everybody took a 30-06 Remington, semi-automatic, you

you know, scope on it with over and under sights. And we'd meet up at uncle Morgan's barn, me and my dad and Scott Steiner, my uncle Tommy and uncle Jeff. And where are you going? Like, hell, I think I'm going to go to the boat seat. You know, I'm going to holler one. Nobody talked about wind or nothing. And it was just a bunch of old guys high-fiving. And we would walk back there and hunt with a rifle. And as soon as you heard a rifle shot, you're like, ah,

that was uncle tommy i bet you he's got a big one you know and so it was just so amazing that part of it so i still go back and do that from a culture standpoint to feel

Just that feeling and vibe of being standing there in a pair of Kmart boots with some old walls, coveralls draped over with them old white long handles, you know, that we thought we could go to the Antarctica in. In reality, it was just some cotton. As soon as it got wet, she froze to death. And just the thought of that, of being literally in my time, 11, 12 years old, just being one of the men with a .30-06 on my shoulder, climbing up in a pine tree in a tree stand built out of leftover lumber from my dad's construction job.

That was the most unsafe thing in the world. And a lot of people got hurt falling out of those things. And I remember we got our first bow. My dad and I, my dad had an old Brown and bow and he had a couple old recurse and I was young and he pecked around with them. And then I remember I was 13 and I was working him on a job site. And, um,

That's what my summer job, my dad was a carpenter, and so I'd go work. And, man, he worked cornbread hell out of me too, you know, just to show me how to be accountable and just what it was like to work. And he paid me $2 an hour. So he said, you need to pick out something as a goal, figure out what you need to save your money for. You don't need to blow it on something stupid. And I said, well, I don't know. And at the time, some of my buddies, they were saving up wanting skateboards. Well, at the time, we lived on a dirt road. So I'm like, what am I going to do with a skateboard? You know, I...

I was like, I can't, I got to go into the city to use a skateboard. So my buddy, Jackson Bishop, we called him Boo. He lives in the city and we hunted together. He said, I'm buying me. He said he was working with my dad and I too. And he ended up saving his money and bought him a really cool skateboard. I remember he built it and went and had posters of it. Well, I ended up deciding that I need to get me a bow and arrow. So I went and bought me a, a Martin pro eliminator, uh,

bow from big buck trading post pay $200 for that sucker was that a compound bow it was a compound bow what year did compound bows get invented it would have had to been I would say in the 70s I mean the first I remember um was talking about Fred Bear the old whitetail hunter uh and then you had the whitetail hunter 2 and stuff like that and then I know uh

Browning came on pretty soon in that. And then obviously you had Hoyt. Did they even have sites back then? We had like a pen site. It was like a bracket and it has had this kind of rudimentary site that you could scroll in and out. There's no range finders, right? There were no range finders. Is that it right there? Look at that. The original compound. Look at that. Up to 50% more speed and penetration. And that was 66. So I felt like this would have been in the eighties. Cause I,

Because I feel like... Wow, that's wild. Priced so low, hunters can't afford to be without one. The way they used to market things back then is so funny. I know. I love to see those old Field & Stream and Outdoor Life magazines. Yeah. I mean, it's a window into a different time. Look at that. Can you imagine taking that to Utah to chase an elk in the mountains?

Oh, my God. You'd have to be so close. Cameron wouldn't even have to tote out a buck on his shoulders. He could just tote that around. Probably be as heavy as a whitetail. How heavy is that thing? Look at it. All the metal. All the components. And all cables. What kind of feet per second are you getting out of that sucker? What is this? Oh, look at this. 1926. Arthur Young. Bow hunting. It's a grizzly here. They say it's a grizzly here. Oh, wow. Look at him. Super close.

Holy cow. I've never seen this, Jamie. Thanks for pulling this up. This is so cool. Holy smokes. I bet they didn't even have to buy a license. I bet they just went hunting, too. Oh, yeah. I bet there was no licenses back then. I mean, when did they? He hid him somewhere. It follows it up here. But, I mean, to film this is even crazy because this is 1926. Right. Wow. Wow.

You had to be so close with that shitty bow. No doubt. And man, any, I tell you what, man, intriguing. Like those guys right there, there are books that they wrote. If you wrote those same books now, like if you and I went on a hunt and we said, Hey, you know, let's just write an article and present it to outdoor life and publish it just as we saw it, which is so cool about what we do here is having a chance conversation and kind of air out anything and everything and

And obviously culture has changed the world. I mean, these podcasts. But back then, you know, you had articles. Well, they'd write these books and it would be so like I would read it sometimes the same page two or three times. It'd be like, you know, Saxon Pope talking about Arthur Young. Yes, I found out. I think it's too far. Seventy yards is too far to shoot at a Cape Buffalo. I put three arrows in him. He didn't seem hurt. I got two in the rump, one in the neck. And you're like.

Like, they didn't edit this out. It's almost like... Right, right, right, right. It's almost like me and you hunting squirrel. Like, man, I'll tell you what, I don't like them pellets. It's just not... Yeah. Those pellets in that air rifle are not... They're just not knocking the squirrels down good enough. Like, oh, you wasn't supposed to put that. Can you edit that out? Right. They were just like, okay, let's put this in a book and let's sell it. Well, they were pioneers. They were learning. They were learning how to do it. But you imagine how... You get crucified sometimes...

for the people to understand hunting, even ethically hunting and making a good ethical shot, whether it's a bow or an arrow or a rifle. And back then they were like, all right, let's go try to hunt some African lions. I don't know what it's going to take to kill them, but we'll see. They were just experimenting. Experimenting. And they took a boat over. Think about, I mean...

I mean, I want to go to... I've been to Africa quite a few times. How long does it take to get to Africa in a boat? It was taking them months to get over there. And they would take a whole ship. And I think they... I forget. I don't want to say it because it could be inaccurate historically. But I want to say they was taking 40, 50 bows, these recurves, and like just tubs and tubs of arrows. I mean, just...

Because they were just launching them. It's like they had more freaking arrows than P. Diddy had baby oil. I mean, it's like, man, how many arrows can you fit on this boat? Like, well, we got shit loaded up. Well, they probably knew they weren't going to get any over there. And they're probably making them themselves. Yeah, and I think it documents it. It talks about, like, look, if our bows tear up, or in this experimental process, we might need a little stronger bow. So, you know, I mean, sometimes...

Very rarely do I even do this. I'll go to pretty desolate places. I'll take one bow. Very rarely I take two bows. I used to think it'd be beneficial, but then I started realizing, man, these things are so dependable. I don't need it. Maybe I take a bow press or an extra string or setup, but...

I mean, they just had to take everything. And they really didn't know. That's such a commitment to adventure. Unbelievable. Get on a boat with a bunch of bows and a tub of arrows. I mean, how do you tell your wife that, too? Because they were married. Can you imagine? I can't imagine now that, you know, Joe and I plan a hunt trip here and you go home and say, hey, man, just me and Waddell was talking and me, him and Cam are thinking about running a hunt hogs. Well, how long are you going to be gone? You know, it's Christmas time. It's like, well, two days.

You know, we're just going to drive down or fly over here, do that. Can you imagine, hey, baby, I think I'm going to Africa and we're going to try to hunt some lion. We don't know what's going to happen. Six, seven months. Yeah, I'll be back next year.

I want to go hunt lions with a pointy stick. Exactly. I should be back. I'm not sure what it takes to kill one. No internet. Yeah. No. No. I mean, nothing. I couldn't research. How are you learning form and technique? Yeah. Who you learn? You just have to practice and then eventually figure out, well, I held my elbow this way. It seemed to be better than this way. Yes. I'll just...

We'll just tweak it. And even the civil unrest. Imagine this. I mean, you know, I hear people talk about hunting and the dangers of potential rogue wildlife. But I've never been that, you know, grew up real country. So I never had any fear of any animals. You know, matter of fact, if I was bear hunting and I thought, you know, somebody said, hey, man, bears love pork chops. Walk through Alaska with a pork chop. Randy Nick might get a better chance. Get a shot of like, well, well, hell, you reckon they'll come? Let's try it. You know, I want a shot at one.

But think of the civil unrest. I've always been a, you know, if you, I went to Zimbabwe one time, me and Nick Muntin.

several of my buddies, we went over there to Zimbabwe and it just happened to be when Mugabe was rerunning. And so he had a political opponent. And so just when we think people listen to this, that, you know, politics in America are crazy. Well, guess what? Somebody was running against Mugabe. So did they debate it on a podcast or even talk about it on CNN? No, Mugabe just went and killed the guy he was running against. Like, okay, I win, you know, so end of story. And so the internet was shut down. And so I remember being over there and like,

"Man, I'm kind of scared, not of an elephant or a lion." I'm like,

what is this? I don't have a phone. I don't have internet. I have no way to talk to my family. I don't have any, um, they, and my money got stolen. I was the idiot who went over there, like with my backpack with cash and like, you know, a bank envelope, everything that you read, like, okay, I'm, I'm an idiot. So I go to, I go to, um, take some money to, to, uh, we were talking about going fishing on the Zambezi river. And, uh,

So I was like, I'm going to get a little money. I'm going to tip this guy if I go fishing. Like, dude, where's my money? And it was all gone. So I don't know if it was between where I landed in South Africa somewhere in my room. I don't know where, but all of my money. And I think I had about $7,000 cash, which for me, that was a lot of money. Like, I mean, I was devastated. Not only I lose the money, it's like I didn't have money to lose like that.

But now I'm like, what am I going to do? And so they take me over to Botswana and I get some poulas from an ATM because it's a little more westernized. But I remember calling home. It's like, man, we ain't in Kansas no more. This ain't a whitetail hunt. And in my mind, I'm so singled in.

on the adventure and thinking of Saxton, you know, Pope and Young and all these guys. And I forget like, wait a minute, there's people dying and starving over here. And, and I'm just over here trying to maybe find a Cape Buffalo or a Gimsbuck or something. And,

That's where I learn a lot in my young travel of just what's out there in the world. Do you ever watch Pedro Ampuro's videos? No, no. Jamie, I'll send it to you. He's a fascinating dude from Spain, and he travels everywhere to bow hunt. Everywhere. Oh, I can already tell. I'd love that. Oh, you'd love it. He's great, too. His hunting adventures are really interesting, but he goes all over the place. I love that. He goes to, like—

Tajikistan and places. Holy cow. There he is. Look at that. I mean, you can tell. I mean, just...

He's a super, super, super dedicated bow hunter and travels to Greenland. He was in Greenland with Remy. They were hunting together. And just his stuff, Pedro's videos are really, really well done. And he's such a likable guy that it's a good introduction to people that don't even understand why anybody would be interested in bow hunting because you realize like this guy is –

He's as much fascinated by the adventure of it all then as he is even the hunting aspect of it like he really enjoys being in these very different cultures and Very different parts of the world like he hunted elk in Mongolia Wow Mongolia has a large elk population. I didn't know that Yeah, but it's really funny because everybody goes there to hunt hunts with a rifle

And so all the guides who speak Mongolian, they're like, what the fuck is this guy doing with his bow? This is stupid. Go shoot it. What are you doing, Pedro? He's like, I can't shoot it. It's 98 yards away. We have to get closer. He's like, just shoot it. Yeah. Just shoot it. Shoot it. Kill it. Let's get out of here. We've been here for fucking three days. They're tired of it, but-

This dude's got a really fucking great channel and a ton of videos. I mean, he's been doing this for like making these videos for like 10, 15 years. I'm definitely going to subscribe to that. I don't even see the buffalo. Where's the buffalo? Is that? Oh, it's a mouflon. Oh, that's a mouflon sheep. Oh, you went to a different video. Oh, okay. Go to the Mongolia elk hunt because it's so fascinating. They stayed in a yurt.

So they stayed in one of those felt tents like Genghis Khan used to live in. And they traveled in the woods. And it looks like you're in Wyoming. It looks like you're in Idaho. Them Yurks always wonder if that's what Missy Elliott was rapping about. You know, Yurk paramedician around here. I don't think so. I don't think she has any knowledge of Yurks. I used to think that's what it said. Yeah.

But if you scroll further ahead, you can see some of the footage. Oh, this is Ibex in Mongolia. Dude, that'd be a tough hunt, too, man. Google, it's not that. Search elk in Mongolia.

He's got, I mean, he's got tons and tons. There it is right there. See a world record Elks right there. Second row. That one. Bam. Yeah. That's in Mongolia. See, that's to me so fast. Crazy. Like, look at that. That looks like you could be in Utah. Absolutely. And they, they just totally didn't understand why he was using a bow because his dad was there. His dad hunted with a rifle and he was successful and you know, he's got to get close.

God, and those look like just your basic Rocky Mountain species. I don't even know how they got there. I don't know if they were always there. I don't know if they were introduced. I really don't know. There's a Uruk, yep. Yeah, and that's what they're staying in. Really interesting. I did not even know that there were elk in Mongolia. Yeah, I didn't either until I saw this video. Nor would I have even known you could hunt there. And I think that's what people don't realize living in America. Yeah. We can hunt. I mean, go do that in China. Get hungry in China and decide you want to go get you a mess of rabbit and squirrel.

Well, there might not be none, and you can't legally hunt. You can't legally hunt in China? Not in China. Not at all. There's several states. You can't even bow hunt in the UK. I know. Isn't that crazy? I mean, I don't know if that goes back to...

Robin Longstride or I think some of it does, a lot of the folklore, because that was a poaching tool. You hunted the king's property. You could do it. You could poach with a bow and arrow. Well, that's what people don't understand. The Robin Hood was not about stealing money. It was about using the king's land to hunt animals. Correct. Because people were starving and the king had all these animals and you weren't allowed to hunt them. You couldn't. So Robin Hood was like, this is bullshit. Like, yeah, I'll take this bow and arrow. Let's go eat. There's stag out here, man. Yeah. And so I...

Yeah, I'm always, the more I travel, like seeing this that Pedro's done, I hadn't done that extensive of traveling. And I've never, if it ends with a stand, I just stay out of it. Yeah. And these extra Z's in the long word. Yeah, man, that's like, yeah.

I try to be. Yeah, but Pedro goes everywhere. I can't recommend his show enough. It's so good. I watch him all the time. I'm going to check that out. Late night when I want to chill when I'm at home, I come home from the comedy club, I'll throw on some of his videos. Check out Pedro. Chill out. Have you ever heard of this? What is that? I was looking at the initial books coming out of

hunting trips to Africa. Dingo neck? Multiple people said they saw this. One guy said he even shot one. In Africa they saw it? Yeah. How long ago was this? Starting back in 1907, I think. What the fuck? Do they have a photo of it? It obviously might not even be a real thing, but the descriptions of it were backed up by multiple people. Huh. A carnivore that chose to hunt or devour nearly whatever it wants to save for elephants. Holy cow. It had tusks? Dog-headed beast fish.

What? I don't even think Jim Shockey's hunted one of them. Where did you find this, Jamie? Literally, I'm looking at all these history books about different expeditions, and this was one from 1908. They went to look for some certain things. They encountered this in Lake Victoria. Huh. Yeah.

I mean, it's probably not real. Look at this. But it seems like it is. I want to believe. Encountered by Lake Victoria when asked, Bronson's own hunting party provided nearly identical descriptions of the creature. The title is referenced to the author having been given special permission to hunt the closed territory of Loida Masai...

Kesey and Sotick. Wow. What the hell was that? I was just looking it up. Very strange. It looks different in a bunch of the drawings, though. Sure. I mean, they don't have a picture, I guess. But remember when we were showing those ancient pictures of what a whale looked like to people? They'd never seen a whale before, and it had wings and a lion's head. So I was fascinated on all that.

those paintings and engravings, it kind of, some of it you can say like, okay, we still have some of those animals that look that way. And then some kind of looks kind of mystical. I haven't seen the ones that cave panties where it's like a stegosaurus. Yeah. Like, how did you know what that looked like? Somebody had exactly. They didn't Google it. Right. Were there a few laying around? I mean, I wonder. I'm so intrigued by that. I think I'm more intrigued with it.

hunting and traveling and being in these places. Like we went down...

I love to turkey hunt. I love to turkey hunt. Matter of fact, I'm going to do everything in my power. And anybody that listens to this ever, even ever knew my name, knows everybody's like, dude, you got to get Cam and Rogan to go turkey hunting. I went turkey hunting once. Did you really? I went with Rinella. Did you really? Rinella, dude. It was fun. Yeah, he's fun. I love turkey hunting. I just love it. And that's how I kind of broke into the industry, I guess. It's definitely a superior turkey to eat. They are. They're delicious. They are delicious to eat. But anyway, with that said...

We were down right out of the Yucatan Peninsula hunting oscillated turkeys, which is a different species. You can hunt all these turkeys and get different slams. Yeah, I think Ronell has got the slam. Yeah, Ronell has done it. And so I went down there with actually Troy Link of Jack Link's Jerky, and he's a big hunter. So we all went down there kind of for the adventure and to say, yeah, we hunted the jungles.

And dude, amazing. You know, you got all that Mayan civilization and all this stuff that I saw, even Graham Hancock. But what people don't realize, we're out in the middle of this jungle and I'm walking around and the guy I'm with, he don't know English. And I'm like, and Cohen Stone, our producer, he's standing there and I was like, dude, this is a, this is one of those pyramids. Like we're walking up and I'm, I'm,

trying to figure out if I can hen call because nobody had ever figured out if you can hen call to these oscillated turkeys I get to looking around and so finally I'm tapping this guide on the shoulder and I'm like bro you know Mayan he said oh see see and I'm like there's so many of those structures out there yeah and we're out there hunting turkeys they don't think nothing about it it's kind of like us walking around out in the middle of the woods in Georgia and find an old whale you know we're in truth right they're like oh yeah there's they're everywhere

So I only knew about the ones that was on the postcards, you know, that you go and eat. Yeah. When you're out there having a Corona on the beach and somebody kind of sell your engraving to your wife and some, you know, ring or something. I'm like, Oh my God, dude. And like, I want it so bad for a Turkey to respond and to put my back against that. And so I did a little video and I was like, man, this is insane. But when would I had a chance to see that had I not been a hunter? Yeah. So that gets you down the rabbit hole of like, well, what was this and what is that calendar? And I,

I wonder what Graham Hancock is. So when I'm seeing some of this, I'm like, dude, I was in that area. I didn't go to see that place.

particular piece where he's talking to this authority. But I did go, you know, 30 miles south of there or 100 miles and I had a chance to work a turkey around one that's not even been excavated. And it just blew my mind. They find so many of those too. The jungle just overrun all that civilization. Just overcame it. And you just, they find them with, you know what LIDAR is? I heard, yes. I saw, well, I didn't know about it until I watched that.

on the Netflix show with Graham. It's crazy. Showing how they're flying over in those rings. See if you can find that pyramid that they just unearthed in Guatemala. They just unearthed some huge pyramid in Guatemala. We were south. I think it was Guatemala. We were right there and kind of right on the southern tip of Mexico just as you go into Guatemala. And I was just intrigued. And we're in the jungle and stay in these little huts, I mean these little tents, like almost a screen porch.

I was just... I was blown away. And the whole time, I'm like, thank you, Lord, for allowing me to be the hunter to go see this, to experience this. Right. And to... I don't know. It's just... I'm overwhelmed. I've never got bored with it. And the more I do it, the more humbling it becomes. As soon as you start thinking like, man...

I got a bunch of elk with my bow and arrow. I got this figured out. I'm about to run a rake through them. I know where they're going to be. And then you go out there and they just kick your butt. Yeah, there's no real figuring it out. I mean, you certainly, you get to your level or a level of Cam Haynes or Remy Warren. You become very proficient. You understand what to do and what not. Here it is.

Find lost city in Mexico jungle by accident. Holy cow. Yeah, this is what it was. It wasn't Guatemala. So archaeologists found pyramids, sports fields, causeways, and connecting districts, amphitheaters in the southern central state of Campeche? Campeche, yeah. Campeche. They uncovered the hidden complex, which they have called Valorant.

Valeriana? Valeriana. Using LIDAR, a type of laser survey that maps structures buried under vegetation. They believed it is second in density only to Calakmul...

thought to be the largest Maya site in ancient Latin America. The team discovered three sites in total in a survey the size of Scotland's capital, Edinburgh, by accident when one of the archaeologists browsed data on the internet. That's so crazy. They found it by accident. See, that's amazing. And

had the same vibe when I was down there because we weren't too far out of Campeche when we was turkey hunting and so as we're going through there and there's thousands and thousands and thousands of acres I'm not even sure I set up I don't know if it's you know governmently owned in this case Mexico or if it's village um

But when I saw that, even though we videoed it, I asked later, I come back and the main outfitter, he's very fluid in English. He said, yeah, we don't, you know, there's all kinds of stuff out there. We don't talk about it a lot because this is our hunting ground. It's almost like the Buffalo drop. Right. They don't want people, archaeologists. They really don't want Grand Hancock down there with a team of filmmakers from California. Like, they don't want it. I see their point, but I don't. Absolutely. And they kind of, uh,

But I think that's what's fascinating about all that we're able to talk about and share now culturally. Yeah. As we realize, if you grow up hunting and fishing, well, I really assume everybody did. Right. I didn't think there was somebody that hadn't eaten squirrel. Right. I did a walk. I didn't eat a squirrel until I was 45 years old. That's what I'm saying. And I grew up to where, like, laying and eating with my papa, like, one day, damn it, I'm going to buy me some ribeyes. You know, it's like, you eat enough squirrel and rabbit, and it's great. Yeah.

It's almost like, man, I'm going to get that big family pack of chicken. Right. And we ate plenty of that. But it was always a fallback to where you understood the good Lord's renewable resources and how to hunt them. So taking an animal for table fare wasn't anything at all to even cheer about other than.

you know, almost in the blessing of blessing your food, like, thank you, Lord, for giving us this opportunity to have a place to hunt. So it would be a chance to go put a fish basket out. I remember my papa would taught me so many things. He made

corn liquor and just country as a damn chicken. And I look back, he passed away when I was 12. Both of my granddads did. And my dad, Edwin Waddell, same way. I mean, they taught me so much, but I just assume this is what every man was. And I figured this is what everybody knew. Cause that's how you grew up. Yeah. And I remember I started working in the hunting industry when I was young. I remember I tell this story. I just remember like going to a nice restaurant and people ordering appetizers. I'm like, what?

what are we doing? What are we doing? Like, what does that mean? It was like, bring us some, uh, ceviche and, uh, some calamari. And you guys like cheese sticks. I look, I know they're unhealthy. Anybody like cheese? Cause like I like cheese sticks and like, you know, like, and then all of a sudden we sat in there chatting, like we are, and everybody's having a cocktail. And I'm like, man, I'm so happy. This is the funnest. I'm loving this. And, uh,

I'm literally going back and at the end of the night calling my dad like, you ain't gonna believe it. Everybody's eating before you eat. Like we had, we getting shrimp cocktail and, you know, and I'm over there and it sounds crazy and almost like it's exaggerated, but I was so overwhelmed. I was so intrigued with the city and just people. I would be the guy talking to everybody, you know, from the

from the street people like, what's up, dog? You know, they're like, man, what's it like out here? You know, like, man, you ever, you ever ate a pigeon? Man, there's a lot of these pigeons. Go get you a couple ketchup packets from McDonald's and get you a rock. Hell, people should hit you. And so I was, it was almost like the exact opposite from some of now my city friends who have gotten just enthralled with hunting. Yeah. They introduced me to so much of the city culture that, you know, I still get excited. Everybody don't think I would, but I still love to,

get excited to go. I had a chance, Joe Montagna is somebody who's got a show on Outdoor Channel. So he has this big cigar dinner every night in Burbank.

And saw the Fuentes, you know, and all these different, you know, movie stars and stuff. And so he's like, man, why don't you get a table? Come out and join us. I'm like, yes. I took my wife. We're all country. I was so excited to just get dressed up and everybody think I wouldn't like it. But I was like, man, this is cool. I'm out there having me a cigar. There's the guy from Rambo. I forget his name, but it's in Karate Kid. Yeah, sure. And I'm like meeting some of these people and I'm thinking it's amazing how culturally being so country is.

And how now I'm talking to some of these guys like, man, dude, you're the hunting guy. Can you, man, why don't you take me hunting? I'm intrigued with that. Yeah. And so now having a chance, I know you've had like Jim Brewer on, which what a cool cat. I love Jim. He is so fun. I couldn't hardly hunt with him or Theo. Yeah.

for just constantly laughing. I mean, I like to cut up and have a good time. The first time I went hunting, I went with, Rinella took me and Brian Callen and it's the same deal. Brian Callen's fucking hilarious. We were just crying, laughing in Montana, freezing our dicks off, having a good time. My experience was the opposite.

Always lived in cities. Always, you know, and then the first time I went hunting was with Rinella. I had been camping before when I was a kid, but there was, I had no real exposure to nature. Right. And I remember just after that week doing it, I was like, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. Like this hits you. Oh, 100%. I remember cooking the back straps over the fire. It was me and Rinella.

Vanilla and Callan and the crew. And we were just like sprinkling some like seasoned salt over these back straps and cooking them over the fire. And we're eating them with our hands. And I was like, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. This is like one of the greatest moments I've ever had in my life. One of the greatest experiences. I felt so tuned into it.

I was like, this is something I've been missing. Like this is, and it's a whole new world. I explained it. I was like, it's like, you're in a different dimension. The first time I shot a deer, um,

was on that show. So I'd never hunted an animal before. I'd only been fishing. And the first time I'm looking at that deer through the crosshairs of that rifle and I'm just calming myself to squeeze a shot and I squeeze off the shot and the deer drops like a stone and I was like, oh my God. I'm like, this is what I'm doing forever.

Yes. And then once I started eating it, I was like, oh, this is my new thing. I'm like, I'm obsessed. I was obsessed. Golly. Obsessed. And then obsessed with all I had been missing. Just the experience of being in the woods is so different than anything else.

The way people think of hunting, unfortunately, we've been poisoned by movies where the hunters are the bad guys. They're always douchebags. They're always poaching animals and harassing people. Hunters in movies, it's a trope that they've always been like...

cruel, evil people like Bambi and Bambi. The Walt Disney movies are. Oh, they ruin people. They ruin this idea. People who buy burgers from McDonald's. Yeah. Well, look down on someone who hunts an animal in the woods. And it's correct. It's just we've been our brains have been distorted. Our perceptions have been distorted by media.

And I realized that being in the woods hunting, I was like, first of all, this is very difficult to do. Mule deer hunting in Montana in October, freezing cold in the Missouri breaks, it's

Fascinating. Just the whole, the environment is so unforgiving and doesn't give a fuck about you. No. The quiet and the isolation out there. And a weird kind of loneliness. Like a, not loneliness, but a realization of where your place really is in the natural world. Yeah.

You're not special. No. You're not. There's nothing significant about you. Crying assault. Yeah, you're just one of many living things trying to get along out here, trying to get by. And you have an advantage, obviously, because you have a rifle and you have binoculars and all that other good stuff. But the reality of it is it's very, very difficult to achieve success, especially if you don't know what you're doing. I was very lucky to have a guy like Rinella show me around. Yeah.

Once you do it once, you're like, oh, God, this is incredible. And then to eat that animal, completely different experience than any other meal I've ever had in my life. Yeah. It's such a piece that comes with it. And I try to explain that, but there's no way to explain it until you experience it. Right. I was even trying to explain it to Theo. I don't know if I got that across. We laughed. Yeah.

Theo is a unique dude. Man, he's one of the most—I've met quite a few people, not as many as you, but Theo by far is one of the coolest, unique people I've met. And I remember we get out, and we're going to Turkey Hut. And I knew—first of all, I think I ruined his whole excitement of it when I said, all right, man, I'll wake you all up. We got about 435. He said, what'd you say, Waddell? I said, oh, man, I didn't sign up for this. I didn't say this in the brochure. And I was like—

And so Caleb Presley, who bars through sports, he was there. And I was a big fan of those guys. So I was trying to make sure I gave them the best experience I could, you know, because I, you know, just like Ronella did with you, I knew the magnitude of, okay, these guys, I hope they want to do it again. But we go out there.

And Theo had not been around a gun a lot. And so I figured it'd be easy. I had a 20 gauge. Well, I can't remember if it was a 20 or 12 gauge. I had a couple, but I put red dot, those Bushnell red dot scopes on there to make it really easy. Not have them shoot the bead. Just look through this optic and see the red dot, put it on the turkey's head, pull the trigger. So Theo's looking through that thing. So you want me to shoot now? I said, no, Theo. I mean, it's not even daylight good. He's got sunglasses on. Yeah.

And he says, he's looking through this joke. He's looking through this shotgun. He said, oh, man. He said, I see that red dot. He said, when I pull the trigger, it turned green. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

And I said, Theo. And so there's clips of it. And I literally, he said, and then he looked at me and said, who's on the other team? There he is. That's it. No, no, don't shoot. Don't shoot. Don't shoot. Don't keep it, keep Fang off the trigger. Okay. All right, but see what I'm saying? You can see the red dot, the red dot will go on his head if you can get him in. All right. And who's the other team? This just sucks. This just sucks.

Who's the other team? I'll take it. Look, did I say I'll take it? Bro, he lives in another dimension. Theo lives in a neighboring dimension, and he just comes and visits us. Oh, God. Theo and I went to the UFC two weekends ago. Last weekend? Two weekends ago? We were in Vegas, and then after the fights, we went to dinner. And I swear to God, the dinner, it was an outing.

hour and a half of me and Theo crying, laughing, just cry. I mean, tears. I'm wiping my eyes. I can't breathe. Where did I go? Dude, this should have been a podcast. We should have filmed this. Oh God. I can only imagine. We were crying. We were just crying. He was saying the most ridiculous shit. And I was laughing so hard. It was so much fun. He's so fun. He's so fun. I had so much fun with that guy, man. And he said so much that I couldn't repeat. That was so funny. And then they said so much that I could.

But I hadn't met anything quite like him. He's so unique. He's a one of a kind. He's a one of a kind. Such a big heart, too, man. Oh, he's a sweetheart. Such a nice guy. He's such a kind person. And just a very unique talent. And that's the thing, too, you know.

And Caleb, on the other hand, he ended up did getting a turkey, Caleb. And he kind of took to it pretty quick. Theo liked it, but I think his attention, if it is attention deficit, he definitely had it. He's got that. And he was kind of cool. And anyway, and I realized Theo had more fun just kind of walking around, checking out the cows. Yeah. I mean, dude, that would be a whole – you could do a special of Theo just walking around.

maybe after a mushroom or something, just let him walk around and just describe what he's seeing. I mean, our producer come back and I saw him way away. I was tired, man. I've been hunting a lot. He said, man, we're going to go take an adventure, walk around the ranch, you know, farm. It was down in South Florida. Come back, our producer was laughing. He said, man, I can't even tell you all I heard and what Theo was saying. He said, I've never laughed so hard. I said, I can only imagine. I can only imagine. But yeah, man, I don't know. It's just like that part...

I think that's the most beautiful thing for me coming from where I come from and even, you know, seeing all the different people from all these cultures. And there's so much. And I've completely understood this, too. There's so little that separate us all from from the most rural country guy to the most urban city guy. No matter what race, ethnicity. It's amazing how there's so much entertainment and things. If you just open your mind, not pretend to know it all to want to learn because there's so much you can teach me so much I can teach you.

And it's just amazing. And it's definitely given me a whole lot better perspective. And I don't know that that's been,

Probably the coolest part of what I've had a chance to go on an adventure and a journey is to be able to, you know, meet somebody like Brewer who's like, you know, he didn't really was not intrigued with hunting. It was more the conspiracy of what was going down and like, dude, I went to go get some chicken breast and some chicken wings to watch football. You couldn't find any. The government Fauci is making me learn what he'll teach me how to kill a turkey. You know, on the other hand, first morning out.

Jim kills one. And so, you know, you've hunted enough, you and Cam, where, you know, you get an elk and it is a reverence. It's not like you, everybody reacts different. So, but if, you know, if you played a good era, kind of the Ted Nugent, the spirit of the era, the spirit of the wild and that,

era goes in there and you've worked for it, you've practiced, and when you know it's a good ethical shot and you know that you got and essentially put the tag on that bull, it is almost like spike. Some people, it's almost like spiking the football when you get a touchdown. So I was so excited that Jim Brewer had just got a turkey. That me and I had Ira Dean, who used to be in that country group, Trick Pony, who is just a trip in itself. He's good friends with Jim, and they live somewhere close down there in Naples, Florida.

And me and Ira are just grabbing him. Looked like you wrestling jujitsu. I got him in the head like, you got him, Jim! You know, and we're like, you know, punching him like, you smoked him, you knocked you dude right in the head. You know, we high-fiving, and Jim's just over there like...

like, like overwhelmed, like the woman in the shower on psycho. Like, what did I just do? I just killed something. And then all of a sudden I forgot. This is a guy in the movies. This is a comedian that I grew up as a kid watching. He's never been there. Right. And, and so, uh, and then we slowed down and it wasn't even hardly any time after that, you know, Jim's a sitting there and he takes the turkey and he's holding it like a, like a little puppy dog and he's holding it. And,

And Ira, my buddy, he grabs his beat and says, hello, Jim. And I think even Jim talks about it. But I just sat back and I'm like, man, how cool is this? And then the same token, Jim's like, hey, man, if you ever down here want to come to one of my comedy shows, for my wife and friend to go do that or to see something I've never seen or to go home and still tell my dad who's 71, you're not going to believe me.

You know what I saw in Austin. You're not going to believe what happened in, you know, wherever Las Vegas. We're at the shot show. It's I don't know. It's pretty amazing of travel, right? Like the more environments you could go into, the more completely different cultures you could explore. You get a just a wider sense of humans. Yeah. And you realize like we have more in common than we do abroad.

opposed to each other. We have much more that we share than we don't. Correct. And what really is is just like what environment did you grow up in? You grew up in the country. I grew up in the city. Yeah. But once you find common ground and once you experience it, like experiencing nature for the first time for people that are in the city, it's

It's so overwhelming for them. It's so interesting to watch them just walk around the woods and just be confused and not knowing how to navigate, not knowing where they are and being exhausted, not knowing how much energy it takes going up hills. Or how we're going to get back. Yeah. Where are we at? We're eight miles deep. Yeah. Yeah, we got to walk eight miles back. When is that going to get us back? Well, probably 11 p.m. Yeah, it's going to be late. Like what? 11 p.m.? Yeah, we have headlights. Headlights.

put on your headlamps like, what? We're going to walk in the dark? Are there animals out here? There's a lot of animals out here and they know where you are before you know where they are. 100%. Yeah. It is so intriguing and to think about... Totally different world. It is a completely different world and...

For me, it was so cool. I've, over the years, working for different, I call it more non-endemic. Like, you obviously, when you think of Hoyt, you think of Realtree, you think of these different companies that are around the hunting culture. But I remember one year I had a chance to work with Hormel Denny's Denny's. Hormel had Denny's more beef stew. And so they did the sweepstakes. And it was like, win a turkey hunt with Michael Waddell. And so we did it, and they run 30-second ads. That was when, you know, everything was a bunch of 30-second ads. And so...

The guy wins it, him and his son. And, well, they get there, and I realize they'd never hunted. And it was my first time to experience guiding somebody that knew nothing. I mean, I'd guided a lot of rookies. But I'm talking about when I say had no clue of nature. Never shot a gun. Never shot a gun. I mean, immediately, you know, had a big Rambo knife tied on his side. You know what I mean?

It's like, okay. And so I remember we walking and I realized that, okay, this would be fun for me because from the basics of everything, just the mountain, the streams to the tracks. So we walking along and me and his son,

And him or talking and I say, look here, this is a coyote track right here. Look at this. Cool. And you can see it in this and arrow a perfect coyote track. Oh, man, that's cool. I'd like, you know, and everything he would relate to would be to a cartoon like like the coyote on Bugs Bunny Roadrunner show. I said, yeah, like Bugs Bunny Roadrunner coyote. But this is a real coyote. That's all. This is cool. Check this out. This is a bobcat track.

oh man i say look here's a here's a turkey track but this is a hen track this track is different i'm explaining to him the different things uh i mean we saw everything that day from hog havalina tracks so finally we're walking he's just so cool with these tracks like taking pictures he said hey man um any any cheetos around here and i said what and he said you know cheeto you know cheetos i said are you talking about like cheetos like

Snacks? Snacks. He said, oh, yeah. I mean, any of those animals? What? What? I swear. Animals? That just shows the disconnect. Cheetos, Chester the Cheetah, which I guess is from a true animal, a cheetah. But Chester Cheeto, he was like, is any of those tracks? If you see one of those tracks, show me what a Chester Cheeto track looks like.

you know, we don't have cheetahs, but there is no Chester the cheetah. But then it hit me. It's like you was talking about the movies. Well, Bambi is so real to them. The fox and the hound. I mean, it's so real. It's like, you know, somehow, you know, they think that you go to Antarctica or North Pole and these...

polar bears are sitting having having a soda and high-fiving and talking about christmas yeah eat klondike bar like what's up what else yeah come over here man have a coke with us you know it's like no that's not these animals will smell you and they come hunt you they'd like wait a minute a seal that we got to wait days for him to come out the hole and hunt them down or look there's a dude that's been eating a lot of fried chicken and collard greens and cornbread i've

I bet that sucker. I bet he can't run fast. Let's go eat him. And so it's just a disconnect of not knowing and thinking that everything is almost like going to the zoo. And then when it becomes hard, you know, and you're two or three days in and you're not had opportunities like, dude, what is going on? Like it's we're hunting. I mean, I've even had him like, dude, I thought you were good. I mean, well, I'm trying, trying. It's just this animal thing.

It does not want to get on your plate. It's not an easy thing to do. No. And that's also the problem with hunting shows. Yeah. If it's a hunting show, if it's a half an hour show, it's 22 minutes of actual footage. And so you're boiling down a 10-day hunt to 22 minutes. And the reality is-

That gives a distorted perception to the people at home, like, oh, it's easy. It's easy. They just go there. They put the animal in their crosshair. That's not fair. You hear that all the time. That's not fair. Survival's not fair. You think it's fair that the lion gets to kill the gazelle? It's not fair. No. Of course it's not fair. There's nothing fair in nature. Why are elephants big? Why are mice small? There's nothing fair. No. Fair doesn't factor in. This is what you're trying to do. You're trying to survive.

Obviously you can go to the store, but out here there's no fucking stores. So out here, if you want to survive, if we lived here forever, this is the only environment you're ever going to be here until your heart stops beating. Correct. This is the only one way. You've got to figure out the wind. You've got to figure out where they are. You've got to pattern them. You've got to figure out how to sneak up on them. You've got to figure out how to execute a shot without getting buck fever. You've got to do all these things. This is the only way.

It's so deep. You're right. And it is difficult. You just can't boil it down to 10. Like Pedro does a really good job of showing like how difficult it is on these crazy adventure hunts that he does. But even still, it's an hour or hour and a half. Like the reality is it's 10 fucking days, man.

10 days. That's right. 10 to 12 miles a day, sweating your ass off, coming back exhausted, your feet hurt, your back's killing you, and you sleep so hard. You sleep like a dead man. And then that alarm clock goes off at 4.30 in the morning. Yeah.

like oh you get some coffee in you with a jet boil and you're freezing you're trying to warm your hands up and then you're off again yep but it still almost feels like i always talk about hunting and open today it's kind of like christmas it's like uh you know when you finally do get to that september and i just use elk hunting as an example because i know you love elk hunting it's almost like you are tired you've been grinding you've had

doing your daily gigs of whatever you're doing and responsibilities of everything in your life. Finally, I'm in elk camp and you're already tired in that first morning. You maybe don't sleep good because you're anxious and excited. And then all of a sudden you finally fall into deep sleep. And all of a sudden, you're like,

but then all of a sudden it's kind of like as a kid when you're waiting on santa claus it's like man i'm not sleeping i'm listening for him i left milk cookie for him and then but then you fell asleep deep and all of a sudden you wake up like oh look santa claus so you jump up and you're still tired and so hunting to me is still that but uh that's amazing it's still that after all these years i still get excited that's the same with cam i mean he's been hunting his whole life he still loves it more than anything

I plan on it so hardcore that when Netflix gave me a comedy special, I had to make sure that it was the beginning of August. I was like, I need time to get ready. Yeah. Because I have a whole training routine and a shooting routine, and I want to make sure I'm shooting 100 hours a day, seven days a week. I want to make sure my...

My accuracy is fully dialed in. I have 100% confidence. My cardio is on point. I got to be ready. So I was like, it can't be any later than like August 5th. I'm like, I need like four hard weeks. I mean, I'm training for it all year round, but four hard weeks, almost like you're getting ready for a fight.

In some of those meetings still, do you still have maybe executives looking at you like... Oh, yeah, they ask weird questions. I don't understand that. So September 12th through the 23rd is... I'm like, you're not going to find me. Yeah. And to them, they don't understand, like, you know, outside of people playing football, like, you still see the Christmas games and the Christmas Eve or Thanksgiving. But for me...

Like Thanksgiving and Christmas, very rarely, you know, all of us kind of like, I'm taking that day. You know, I'm taking that day. And that's kind of like, unfortunately, now we get in these hobbies of hunting. Like, okay, I can't do anything the first week in April. That's turkey season. Yeah. And September, oh, man. That whole month's gone. Yeah. And November, oh, man, the deer are rutting. I don't know that...

y'all got anything in july i've had big guests like important guests yeah that wanted to come in like september 10th i'm like that's not gonna work can't do it it's not gonna happen well it's the only time he's in america it's not gonna work let me know if you come back yeah let me know if you come back i'm not missing that it's just it's my favorite time of the year there's nothing like it funny story it happened similar and you know people wonder like do you ever get tired of it um

You really don't. I mean, I'm sure like you, you know, obviously, say in the comedian world to kind of draw parallels, that opportunity to go out for 30 minutes or an hour to make someone laugh and they're digging on the stuff that you're performing. It's got to be a natural high that comes with it. So there becomes an addictive quality to it.

And it's not necessarily about the money. It's just a certain situation that feels good. So you wonder like, when do I want to step down for this? And it's kind of like, you know, Keith Richards playing a guitar, maybe never. It's like, this is part of it. And I think hunting becomes like that. And to the point with me, like the things I love and I've been blessed that inevitably my financial opportunities have came from promoting hunting and working for different partners as his cams. Um, and many of us, Remy, Steve, a lot of us, but, uh,

I'm still so addicted to the point to where my wife, she loves country music, my wife, Christy. And so through people we meet, we've got invited to some really cool things, you know, from get togethers to parties, to situations, awards, to ceremonies, to different clubs. And so a lot of times we'll try to go. And it's actually a cool thing for me because, hey, man, I met this person. Would you like to do this or that? And one thing in particular happened recently.

um my wife loves country music and there's a lot of those country music guys that i hunt with so i had gotten a text from a guy they was having the some award ceremony um around the country music i forget which one it was but when they had it at the dallas stadium and uh anyway i had got invited he said hey if you want to come out waddell look man we'd like to have you have you have to you know man we'll we'll treat you like one of the singers you know and um

So immediately I said, oh, dude, what's the dates? And they said it's April. Like it was a I forget what it was. It was whatever it was. It hit right in turkey season. Like right when I knew I hadn't even had anything planned. This was time. But I knew kind of like, you know, September.

So I said, man, I'm sorry. Thank you so much for the invite, but I'm not going to be able to make it. Well, my wife and I don't have a relationship where we go in through each other's phones and stuff like that. But that particular my phone was sitting is maybe a week later sitting there. And that same gentleman had texted me on another matter. And so he had just texted me. So I said, Christy, get my phone. So she did. And somehow that she just happened to look at that text and.

And all of a sudden I couldn't figure out. She was just kind of giving me the cold shoulder like the rest of the day. I'm like, what did I do? And I couldn't figure out what I did, you know. So finally, I was like, look, baby, you know, I figured out a lot of things about elk and turkey. I ain't figured out a woman completely. And so I know I don't piss you off some kind of way. I don't know what I did, but, you know.

help me understand she said you know what i do have a bone to pick with you and i was like okay well let me have it you know let me have it and i'm already thinking i ain't did shit you know i don't think she said you know what i know you like to hunt turkeys i'm like okay all right and i and

I'm like, yeah, I love to hunt turkey. She said, but you know what? We could take one night and go to a really cool award ceremony. Maybe we could hang out with Blake and have a drink and just chill and relax. And Luke was going to be, and I, and I, and I was like, what are you talking about? And then she said, well, I saw the text and we were invited to go to the awards. And, and you quickly just said, no, didn't even talk. And I'm like,

And then I hit me like, what a self. I don't know how many turkeys I've seen shot or how many turkeys I've shot myself. But here it is. I'm 50 years old and I'm saying no, just like that without hesitation. Right. No, I mean, that would be fun in my mind. I'm thinking, dude, if I was June or July, I'd be like,

And I had your number. I'd be texting everybody, dude, are y'all going? Can we have a drink, hang out? Sure. But it was like, nope. It wasn't a matter of Elvis Presley. It's going to be the show. I was like, and then it hit me. I'm like, man, I am selfish. And it hit me there. And I did. I sincerely said, I'm sorry, because you're right. I could have...

Just got a commercial flight. We could have flew out there and spent a great evening, had a great date night and saw the awards and come back. But in my mind, I'm thinking, why would anybody go to a big city in the middle of Turkey season? I don't understand that.

And I'm trying to. I'm still learning. Still learning. Well, the reality of it is if you haven't experienced hunting, you don't understand why people are so drawn to it and why the experience is so much more powerful than anything else you have in life other than the birth of your children, being in love. There's a bunch of experiences that are wonderful in the regular modern civilized life. But when you get that buzz.

You get that bug, you know, you get that bug. When you hear the swat of that fucking arrow hitting the vitals and you see the spot right in the golden triangle, you see the blood dripping down and you see him stumbling forward, you're like, we got him.

We got them. And every sense in your body is on 10. Your fucking goosebumps have goosebumps. Everything. It's just, there's nothing like it in the world. You want to stand up and tie that bandana like on Rambo First Blood. It's just, I don't know, it's crazy feeling. And

I hope more people get a chance to experience it. But it is unbelievable. It's so hard to do. It's so hard to do. Especially like archery elk hunting or archery mule deer hunting, probably even more difficult. I agree. It is so hard to do. To get someone addicted to that –

Boy, you've got to get a special kind of person that's willing to, like, the learning curve is so long. And the physicality of that high desert mule deer. Oh, yes. It's brutal. And also, those motherfuckers are smart. Oh, yeah. You think they're not? They've been ducking mountain lions for five, six years, and they know any little snap of a branch, any little, like, moving of a rock that sounds like it might have been a predator's paw. Oh, yeah. They're on a swivel. They're up, and they're bouncing.

Boing, boing, boing. See ya. They're gone. And that's what other thing people don't realize. You know, they think, oh, you hunters are going out there and, you know, getting these animals. And, you know, obviously the hunters have such a responsibility and the balance of a lot of things. You know, and Mother Nature is, first of all, very brutal. And there's a lot to be learned through nature. There's a lot of things we think we know. But then if you really dig deep and you're in the mountains, you realize, wait a minute, that was all human nature before.

This is nature. There's a difference. You know, so many examples that you can get into. But at the end of the day,

These deer also have coyotes. Now they reintroduce wolves in some of these places. And they have done studies that in some cases they feel like an adult male mountain lion can kill up to 100 mule deer, one mountain lion. So you're talking 80 to 100 animals that they kill. So when you think about us, even if we're athletic. Is that a year? That's a year. That's one. Wow.

And they've done all kinds of studies. I know the state of Utah has been really proactive, which is great. And what I love about Utah Game and Fish is what they're doing. They're listening to a lot of these mountaineering type of guys who are not, you know, have a doctorate in biology or are balancing nature. They're just ranchers. They're outfitters. They're hunters. They're somebody that's immersed themselves. And, you know, they might not can set their

And recite Shakespeare, but they can certainly tell you what they've seen. They don't claim to know it all, but they can tell you things that they are seeing out there. There's different kinds of intelligence and knowledge.

What am I going to learn from a Joe? What am I going to learn from Michael Waddell? What am I? Remy Warren? Come on, dude. Okay, you hunt a lot. But, you know, I got a doctorate in this. Well, like California is a great example. Yeah. A lot of their game and fish. I don't even think they call it game and fish. I think they call it fish and wildlife. Correct. Yeah, because they don't want the concept of game to be introduced, meaning hunted. Their thought is they want to get it to the point where the predators and the prey balance each other out.

where there's no need for hunting. And they would like to reintroduce wolves to help. They do. It's animal activists that have taken these positions that should be held by wildlife biologists who have an objective understanding of the populations and how to keep them healthy. And the way they're doing it in California is...

You've got mountain lions everywhere. Yeah. In this one ranch that I hunt, they had a water hole, they had a pond, and they had a trail cam. They found 18 different cats that visited this trail cam. See, that— 18 different mountain lions. That goes beyond what biologists will tell you. As a matter of fact, a lot of times, a lot of the studies are—now it's been changed, and everything, the goalposts are being adjusted. But there was a time, I think it was 28-square-mile radius—

that I know at least in the state of Utah. So I'm not saying every game of fish department, you know, I call it, or fishing game, or fish and wildlife would say, but they had specifically, they said, a male mountain lion basically controlled 28 miles diameter.

Only to find that in Utah, I've got some friends and outfitters that went out there when they did have the quota tags. Now you can just buy a tag over the counter and you can get depredation. You can hunt mountain lion all the time because they realize, look, these mountain lions are killing a lot of elk, a lot of mule deer specifically. On top of that, you don't know what the winter is going to be and what that's going to kill. Then you got wolves, you got bears, you got all this stuff.

This outfitter took a business card and he put it down. He said, well, I know y'all think this, but I want to show y'all what I feel the quota. He said, I shot 10 mountain lions in this business card. He said three of them was here. So your theory that one male mountain lion is in this 28 mile diameter is

It's completely busted. This is not on anything I've studied. I didn't go to Harvard. I didn't go to Auburn University in the wildlife department. I don't have trail cameras out there. I'm just telling you that with red bone hounds, this is a true statistic. Here's the photos. And so again,

What has happened, a lot of those people got together, and what I love about Utah, they are listening. And they're saying, okay, this old hillbilly knows something. Let's listen to him. And so they're adjusting it. And now the deer number's going up. The hunting's getting better. And it's unfortunate that really some of these people might be right, that nature does have a great way of balancing itself. Very more, way more brutal than what you and I would approach the management process. Yeah.

But everything's changing. I mean, you know, you talk about California, you talk about how they reintroduced the wolf, say, in Colorado. Well, all that was voted in in a very urban area, specifically Aspen. All the ranchers. I don't think it should be voted in at all. It shouldn't be. Ballot biology to me is ridiculous. It don't make sense. You should have to have an understanding about what you're voting on from a perspective of the people that are actually in the field.

Correct. And the reality of mountain lions is, like, you're not going to get an accurate assessment from someone who visits it once a month. They think you can go out there and sell tourist tickets to watch the mountain lions. You can't find them. I'll tell you this. They're there, and they know you're coming. They smell you miles away. They're not going to be anywhere near you. And if you do see them, it's rare. I heard Rinella, because Rinella spends a lot of time in desolate places. And I didn't specifically talk to Cam. But kind of in perspective, I started working...

in the area of either guiding or working with an outfitter, working with companies that were doing shows for, at the time, TNN that turned into ESPN, now Outdoor Channel, now YouTube, so on and so forth. Well, so as a young kid, you know, in rural Georgia, I finally had a chance to start going and seeing these places from Saskatchewan to all over Canada. I got to go to Africa, all over Mexico. And now I'm hunting all across the western landscape, not just in Georgia, hunting whitetails and turkeys and squirrels there.

I've only saw one mountain lion in the daylight. One. Now, I've spent tons. I think Ronella said he saw six in his lifetime in the daylight. So,

What you realize, if you see a mountain lion in the daylight, now I've seen a lot of mountain lions, but they all have been in a tree behind a dog or running behind a dog. I'm talking about just you and I, glassing, looking for mule deer and like, Joe, mountain lion. Right. You don't see them. You don't see them. And same with wolves. I've seen two wolves in my life. Both were in, one was in the Yukon, one was in Alaska.

in the daylight. I've heard them countless times. We've been camping in spike tents and you hear the wolves. I've heard them all across places where wolves exist, but you don't see them. Another perspective is even coyotes. I have 500, a little over 500 acres I live on in Georgia. And so I noticed that

I was finding all kind of fawns and they did a bunch of studies from University of Georgia, Auburn University, talking about how many deer that coyotes eat, which can't blame them. Why would you not eat a fawn in the fawning time of year and feed your pups? So I decided, actually, of all people who got me into trapping, it was Blake Shelton. He was trapping in Oklahoma and loves it. And so I'm like, my God, if this country singer who hosted American, you know, or The Voice can trap, I got to get learn about this. So I dug deep and

2019 and 20 man i just dug in and just learned a lot more about trapping instead of putting out dirt hole traps or leg hole uh dirt dirt hole traps and different things and um so i caught in 2021 i caught like 22 one year 19 another year just on 500 acres wow and if we go hunting tomorrow now think about 20 dogs that are smaller than a german shepherd but a small you know

canine dog that lives on your property, some are passing through, to think that in a four-week period I could catch 22 coyotes. That at times, you know, hunting a lot, I would see them time to time. Along that, I also caught seven fox and two bobcats, and I don't know how many coons and possums. So for people to think that you see this all the time, you don't. I live there. And when I'm home, every day I'm up and I'm riding coyotes.

checking food plots, putting in food plots. I got bulldozers. I got different things, tractors trying to make the wildlife habitat better to make sure I got better areas for my turkeys to brood, making sure I'm planting resources. And I don't see these things. And this is all I've ever done. So

The people that live in Aspen are just out of L.A., you know, not trying to throw shade on them. But you don't know, man. I don't know how to hit a half pipe like Tony Hawk either. So I'm still learning. And so for me to say that and to think that you can just spend nearly $4.8 million, $5 million to reintroduce wolves and think you're going to get tourists to come out there and look at them. These wolves, if they could talk, they're like, these people don't have a clue. You're never going to see me. Well, not only that, but they took wolves that were already depredating livestock. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the ones that they captured and they moved them to Colorado where they're going to continue to do the same thing. I just read something the other day. You see they're removing one of those herds? They're trapping them and removing them because of all the depredation of killing livestock. Yeah. Guess what? If a mountain lion kills 100 deer, one, and then he's, okay, God bless the fact that he is nature and he's hunting a deer or an elk.

But guess what they do when that starts running low? They're like, man, that dog looks good. Yeah. As a cat? We were talking about this yesterday, that San Francisco, when they kill mountain lions in the Bay Area, 50% of their diet is pets. Ain't that something? And all as well. All these PETA members, they're all fine as long as it's your dog and your cat. But all of a sudden, you let a herd of deer come in and eat their $40,000 worth of landscaping and a mountain lion kill their pet, they're secretly calling me like, hey, oh.

Hey, bone collector? I'm not going to lie. That's a little offensive, but... We need you. So how quiet is your bow and arrow? It's like...

Oh, hypocrisy. Is this hypocrisy.com calling me? Well, it's uneducated. It's uneducated. They just don't know what they're talking about and they don't have any experience in it. And again, like we talked about, the idea, the mass media idea of a hunter is very negative.

It's very negative. Very negative. It's sad because what you'll find, too, is some of the best people in society. Some of the best people. I mean, they're really down to earth. I mean, sit around a campfire with somebody that's grew up very rural. Their excitement of talking about everything typically is pretty awesome. Also, their appreciation of hard work. They very much appreciate. And I think that's...

Even my dad, man, he's 71. And I said, Dad, you ain't going to believe it. Joe Rogan texted me and invited me to come up on the show. And he said, Man, I like that Rogan. He said, That dude...

It's funny, anytime I talk about my dad, I got to go into that impersonation. Joe, man, he's stout. He's stout. He's stout, man. He work out a lot. You know, and I'm thinking, how does my dad know the routine? He knows that I like him. You know, of course, he loved that you had Trump on and that you had kind of bringing some light to that and give him an opportunity to talk. And so...

I find across the board, same conversation I had talking to some squirrel hunters, talking about Cam Haynes. You know, it's like Cam is a beast. You know, he runs and he does this stuff. And what brought me and Cam back together to even going out and talking on his podcast, you know, we grew up close to the same age, same trajectory. I'm the southern guy. He's a west guy.

He's a fitness guy. I'm kind of a little Debbie eater, fried chicken, collard green, but we still figured out a way. I always said, somebody asked me, what's the difference between you and Cameron Haynes? I said, Cameron Haynes runs quickly to the top of the mountain. I sit down and I call him off the mountain. I'm going to figure out how to communicate with him. There's a lot of different ways to crack it. There's a lot of different ways to skin the cat, as they would say. At the end of the day, I was talking to some squirrel hunters over in Alabama. These guys...

prototypical what you'd pull up look like billy coleman from where the red fern grows you know had had squirrel dogs and and one of the guys uh he had to be in his 60s and uh literally i had some chew in the back he said man you friends with that cameron haynes and i said i am i said i i've known cameron a long time he said man he seemed like a good dude and i don't know why he hit me like

this guy, I wouldn't expect to mention Cameron. And so quickly, um, I contacted Cameron. I said, man, it's had a cool conversation. And so he and I quickly kind of said, man, why, why have we not even hunted together? Like we've been at trade shows and stuff and done some stuff. And, and, uh, so that's been really cool for me and old friend. I've known a long time to get back in camp and the conversations are so funny. We get to laughing and cutting up and, and, uh,

And I don't know, it was crazy. Well, I think one of the beautiful things about social media for hunting and podcasts for hunting is that people have an opportunity to hear a completely different perspective about what it is that wasn't available before that. I got into hunting because I started watching Spirit of the Wild. Ted Nugent. I love Ted. That's when I got fascinated with it. And then I watched Ronella's original show, which, oh, God, I can't remember the name of it.

He had a show. What meat eater though? No, no, no. Before meat eater. Yeah. God, I forget the name of it, but his show, it didn't last very long, but I thought it was really interesting. And I knew Helen Cho because Helen Cho who worked with Rinella on that show. She also worked with Bourdain.

And so, you know, I was friends with Bourdain and so I got introduced to them through that and Helen got Steve on the show He didn't even know what a podcast was he did he was like, what are we doing here? We went to we were filming out of the ice house in Pasadena at that time the ice house the comedy club in Pasadena And that's where we had our studio

And so is Ronella sitting there? He's like, oh, kind of a little dismissive of this. Like, what is this nonsense? Yeah. And then now he's got one of the biggest podcasts in the space. He's done a phenomenal job, man. He's great. He has. I was when Ronella had reached out and I had a chance to be on his podcast, you know, and

I would say I'm a very secure person. But at the same time, I know I'm country. I know I'm the, for lack of better words, the guy that... I kill a lot of stuff. There ain't no way to say it any better. I could say harvest, pluck, take. But at the end of the day, I grew up where...

In Georgia, we could kill 10 deer legally a year. So mostly with a bow. And then Alabama, the neighboring state, you know, you could kill a buck and a doe a day for a long time in Alabama. And there was people that tried to do it. It wasn't ever, did you get you a good one this year? Like, yep, 47. Like, what? Like, yeah, you know. That's a lot of food. At first, I was, you know, when I first started meeting and hanging with Ronella, I thought, man, I hope he don't.

Think I'm just this old redneck crazy dude that, you know. And then once we've become friends, it gets back to the whole how everything is so much tighter than you realize and how we all have so much respect for each other and different lanes of bringing it. And it's just like anything. I mean, you know, you got different players on a team all playing for the same team, but they all have a different skill set. And so we all grow up a little different. And so, again, I just assumed that.

Growing up in my small little area, just out of Manchester, Woodbury, Georgia, I really think the area I was from was called Booger Bottom, Georgia. And I just thought, well, Booger Bottoms are everywhere. Well, you find out there is a lot of different little names. There are no lights there.

But I just really assumed everybody did. And I was just completely devastated when I went to the city. And, you know, and I'd tell somebody like, man, you know, what do you do? It's like, man, I work for a company. We do hunting shows, T&N. And I'm so proud thinking, man, I should be able to pass out a business card and meet a girl with this. You know, like, oh, my God, you're a killer. You kill Bambi. And it just...

Bro, it just completely devastated me. Because you had never been around people who were anti-hunting. I never had. I didn't know it existed. I mean, I was that naive. I did not know it existed. How old were you when you first encountered people that were anti-hunting? I was in my early 20s. Wow. I was in my early 20s. How hard was it to wrap your head around that? It blew me away. And people that eat meat, too, by the way, right? Yeah. It was really weird. It really hit me when I started traveling. I literally was like a kid that was just...

you know, getting up every morning for Christmas. I was having a chance to work for Bill Jordan and I had met him through winning a turkey calling contest. And he asked me him and David Blanton. I can't say enough great things about Bill and David.

David Blanton believed in me when, I mean, he always believed in me so much. And he said, hey, man, we'd love for you to help guide hunters. And back then, everything around hunting was media, outdoor life, field and stream. So there wasn't any hunting shows. But then about that same time, TNN, after these NASCAR races, introduced an outdoor block, which if you go back and look,

People like Jackie Bushman at the time. What year was this, Ron? This would have been, for me, it would have been a 92 or 3 or 4, somewhere right in there. Did they even have rangefinders back then? No rangefinders. I bought the first one I'd ever seen. It was a Bushnell, and I still work with Bushnell. The thing looked like a car battery. I mean, literally, you know, I had safety straps. I had, like, chains. I like one strongest man contest to hold this thing up. But you had the little ones you could roll.

And it didn't even tell you when the temperature changes, it's going to give you an inaccurate, it's going to change with the weather. But no, it was just guessing. Was it a laser range finder? The first ones was like a roller. You rolled two things. I forget how exactly it worked, but it come and it gave you basically a... A rough estimate? A rough estimate. And it'd be like 40 yards. And then Bushnell, to my knowledge, come out with one. It was a bigger one. It looked...

Like I said, it kind of looked like a small battery. It was big, and it had a laser on it, and you could range it, and it gave you the yardage. And obviously, it wasn't angle compensating. It didn't have any of the arc, the angle range compensation. It had any of that, and the first person I ever saw that even talked about that was Chuck Adams. I was videoing with him back in those TNN days, and

We should explain to people, like, angle compensation is like an arrow is quicker going downhill. So if you're shooting uphill or downhill, the angle, you have to gauge how fast the arrow is going to go, the feet per second, based on the angle. So if it might look like it's 50 yards...

As the crow flies, your range finder might say 42. Correct. And you've got to put your sight at 42 yards, otherwise it'll shoot right over its back. And it works. Yeah, it works really well. It's unbelievable. And...

That, to me, I didn't know existed. Have you ever fucked around with those Garmin sights? No, I haven't. I've always wanted to try one. It's great in theory and great when it works. So when it works. Yeah, I've had a problem with it a couple of times and I gave up on them. And I'm hoping they're going to get better. And then they outlawed them in Utah. Yeah.

I tried to bring it to Utah a couple years ago, and they had passed a law, maybe last year. And the best thing about it, though, it's like a red dot. You get that dot. You have a clear sight picture. No posts. You can see just that dot. Just that dot on the vitals. It's amazing. And the fact that you could go to full draw and just press a button to range and then say maybe the animal moves 15 yards to the left. Just hit it again. You just press it again, and you get a range, and you have a perfect shot. But-

But some people think that that's cheating. But it's just taking a step out. Instead of picking your range finder off your bino pouch and –

checking it and then changing your sight and then drawing back with this you're doing it right from draw so from full draw you can just keep getting ranges and then you can also hit it once and then a second time and you'll get pins so you get 20 to 80 nice yeah so even if you so then all your pins will come up exactly based on that but if you just want an accurate range

You get that one button press, and it'll give you exact range. And, you know, it's based on... Everything is compensated into the sight itself. So angle compensation is built into the sight itself. You put in the speed of your arrow. So if you're shooting 285 feet per second. Exactly. It's all factored into your bow. It's pretty incredible. I liked that a lot because...

uh and i think i've heard you even mention this what i what i love about archery is obviously you got these windows everything ain't just sitting out in the yard where you're shooting right shooting through the wood especially if you're out there elk hunting you got these windows and um there was a site years ago that i remember and it worked in theory great but it was simple it wasn't like the range or the the garmin but they had these fiber optics that were glued to the middle of of a

basically of a piece of glass that went into the site housing so you would buy this glass housing that okay if your bow was 280 feet per second or 290 or 300 320 and your pins were preset so you went and got your top pin dialed in so then you had all these but your site viewing was good the problem was when it rained or if it got dirty foggy yeah and what i did like about that is uh

is the fact that the reason I've always liked pins, multiple pins, is the fact that I could see my whole sight picture where my arrow's going from 20 all the way out to even if I'm shooting 80. In this case, most of my sights are set up from, say, 20 to 60 or 20 to 70. I try to put as many pins on my sight as I can. A lot of people don't like it because they think it's clutter, but once I've mentally got used to it, if I range a bull, say, 65, when I pull back, without having to do any other calculations, I put my 60-yard pin down

on that bull. It's in the clear. And then quickly, now, it's like a, you know, memory of going back and I quickly go back up to my 20-yard pin and I'm looking all the way down through and estimating, is this arrow going to

arc through but basically from 20 all the way out to my desired where i want to hit i can see the arc of my arrow based on my pin set good so so you know if there's a gap in the trees i know the gap you're going to be able to get right in there i know if i'm at 60 holding dead on that clear spot but i got a limb at 30 and my 30 yard pins in the middle of it i know like oh crap i'm gonna hit that so now i can just squat down so that's why i don't like as much a single pin technology

And then quickly, what I like about the pens, it's clutter. It's kind of old-fashioned, but I do like that a lot from that standpoint of trajectory of the ability to kind of kill or to take and fill a tag. And Cam and I talked a lot about those things. We talked a lot about the release. I definitely like that. You know, I like the handheld from a, if I really want to try to hone in and be a little more disciplined and kind of the

feel it go not feel it go off and shoot with completely surprise i like that but i don't think that traditionally works is great for hunting because of the fact i think you do have to know and to make that arrow go right now if you consistently have to even in texas i mean we're shooting animals at

you know 20 to 30 yards those deer and um sometimes the opportunities sometimes they walk in they're they're dogging a doe they're coming in every deer ain't coming in just to eat corn or eating a food plot they're coming in they got one thing on their mind and that's you know mama is ready and so they're coming in grunting so that deer runs he stops and you got to be at full draw no he's 27 come back and you got to send it right now you know what i describe it as the difference between practicing free throws and basketball

100%. That's it. Stephon Curry is not, it is, I mean, dude. You don't get a chance to set up and have a surprise shot. 100%. That's a great way to make it. Yeah, that's really what it is. I think practicing, sure. But I think there's moments where you've got to make that sucker go off. Oh, man, yeah. There's great hunters like Levi Morgan who hunts with a hinge.

Dude, I mean, just an animal. Yeah. He's probably the most decorated archer that I know. I mean, that dude... Maybe of all time. Yeah, because like, Ulmer, Gillingham, all those guys are heroes of mine. I mean, like, I very much look up to them. And if I can ever...

pull them aside. I just wear them out trying to learn, you know? Right. And, uh, but Levi is right there, dude, far as winning and what he knows. And he, you know, another thing about Levi, I got to give him credit. That dude is a cold blooded killer, man. He, he is a great hunter too. Sometimes I don't translate, uh,

I know some people that are great tournament. Right. I mean, 3D tournament ASA IBO winners. Right. But it doesn't go over into the ability to just feel tags. It's free throws versus basketball. No doubt. It really is. Like, you're standing weird. One leg is down. One leg is up.

You know, you're on the side of a hill. You got to can't your bow a little bit. You know, you lean your bubble into the wind. There's a lot of shit going on. A lot. A lot of shit going on. And then you got the nerves. You never get completely over that. You know, people ask me all the time, do you ever get nervous or you get buck fever? Like, man, almost every time. It's like, I think that's when if some of that, yes, you get good at kind of

somewhat like stage fright. I saw a clip of Elvis Presley. I thought it was just so unique. I saw a clip of Elvis Presley the other day on this YouTube clip, and he was completely in panic. And this was like right in the prime of his career, and he was walking around, and it was a narrator saying, yes, Elvis notoriously would get just afraid every time he went on fray. And I'm like, this is the king. Right. But he was just pacing, and he was being short with a couple of people. And anyway, he walks out there, and I'm sure he crushes it. But I think...

It's similar to probably how some of those football players running out on the field. There's no way you got all this clicking in your head. Like, oh man, I got to remember, Belichick has told me that he's introduced this new offense. I'm not sure. I don't know if I can read. I don't know how I'm going to read this offense. I think hunting's similar as to where everything has to click, but you still get that

Now is my opportunity. Yes. And, dude, it still is overwhelming. And then to control it. And then when you fit that air through that window and then you can pick up the phone and call your family and say, baby doll, don't buy no steak because I'm bringing it home. It's it's it's it's again, it's just it's not like you want to.

disrespect the animal, but you just achieved something. Grocery shopping in the wild is what you do. Yeah. I think it's something that's very difficult to do that you care a lot about. And anytime there's something that's very difficult to do that you care a lot about, you're going to get nervous.

100%. And especially with hunting, there's one moment where you pull that trigger. This one moment. Yeah. You have this one moment. So you've been practicing. You've been preparing. You've been packing your gear, getting ready, all for this millisecond in time where you release that arrow and you watch.

Right in there. And it's very difficult to master. I don't think you ever master. You become proficient at it. You become good at it. But even the best hunters make bad shots sometimes. Absolutely. Animal moves. The wind takes the arrow in a weird direction. It hits a branch going in. You see it all the time. It's not an easy thing to do. So, of course, you're going to have those nerves. But that's part of the reward process.

Being successful is that if you can get through that nervousness, and I think it helps you in everything you do in life. I think anytime you do something really hard, very difficult, I think that ability to overcome that difficult scenario helps you with everything in life. 100%. And when it comes to archery, too.

You're on that ragged line to where in your subconscious you can go from... You can be the hero or you can be zero that quick. All of that time, the money, the energy, the time that you did step away from the Netflix special in your case because, hey, I'm elk hunting. Right. You know you got to somehow communicate with your buddies. Oh, man, I missed. Or worse, I made a bad shot. Right. Let's let them lay. And so everything that you look forward to that whole year, you could let yourself down. So it's a very...

individual lonely feeling. Yeah. And you can't think about that before you pull the trigger. No. You can never think, I hope I don't make a bad shot because you'll make a bad shot. You can't. And I'm always, is you always, are you always positively thinking when you're like, I'm about to put it on him? Yeah. Are you thinking positive? I have to. I do too. Yeah. I think you have to. I was interested, you know, I was talking, I mentioned Chuck Adams.

Chuck told me that he did that exact opposite. He said, sometimes I would say, hey, I'm going to do my best. I'll probably fail. It's almost like Mr. Rogers neighborhood. I said, you're kidding me. And then to me, this guy's the beast. And the only other person in history I've ever heard that there was a guy named Kenny Bartram is a motocross. He was the first guy to ever do a backflip on a on a on a motorcycle. And he landed it. And so he went hunting with us one time in Texas. And I said, Kenny, Kenny.

I mean, how much weed do you got to smoke to get on a bike and think you can do a flip for the first time? He said, man, I just always thought I'd probably kill myself, but I'd try it. I said, so you never thought you would land it? He said, no, every time I try a trick, I think I'm about to wad it up. I said, oh, my God, how do you do that? And I'm thinking about me and my buddy Boo Bishop building a BMX track and building a little something we jumped over and thinking I'd be scared to like...

I can do this. Just jump over a little ramp. I never thought, yeah, jumping the ramp, like I'm probably going to crash. I always would think I could. And then when I crashed, I'd be surprised. Like, I can't believe that. That hurt. So Chuck and Kenny was the only guys I've ever thought that.

That's a weird psychology. I don't think that's the best way to approach it. Me either. I'm often wondering, is there ever a comedian that walks out and is like, hey, I'm probably going to bomb, but I'm going to do the best I can, or I'm going to play this guitar the best I can. I don't know. Sometimes people talk like that, but I think they're fishing for compliments.

You know, their own self. Yeah. I think, man, I hope this works well. And then friends are like, come on, man, you're fucking hilarious. You're going to kill it. They might be like fishing for compliments. Yeah. Kind of like you're tired and it's third down and it's like, dude, come on, man. I'm going to be open. Hit me. Yeah. Mustard too. I know you're limping. Hit me. I'll go. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, you need a little of that sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I think these experiences that we have that when we relay it to people, it's one of the only places, like in podcasts, the only places where you can hear it this way. And I think that's...

what we're battling against. We're battling against the media representations of hunting, which is almost entirely negative. And these perceptions that people have that hunters are cruel. And then there's this term trophy. Yeah. That is the mule deer that I killed with Ronella. That's the first deer I ever killed. I love that. And you could say that this is not a trophy mule deer. It's not a very big mule deer.

As far as mule deers go, this is a mature buck, but he's not a big one. Oh, but he's beautiful. But man, to me, this is where it all started. 100%. And this is a trophy. It is a trophy. If you went to a trophy unit and you shot a deer like this, people are like, what are you doing? Why'd you shoot this? Why didn't you hold out for a big, mature one? But the term trophy gets...

thrown around and unfortunately has a negative connotation. It does. I think Ted puts it the best way, Ted Nugent. Yep. He says, it's all the things. It's food, it's trophy, it's sport. It's all those things together. I don't think of it as a sport like you said. I think the term sport...

Sports are awesome. Don't get me wrong. But it's not significant enough for what hunting is. 100%. I agree with that. You're taking a life. You're feeding yourself with that life. It's more powerful than sport. Way more, yeah. When you call it this sport of hunting, I'm like...

I don't like that term. I agree with that, too. As a matter of fact, if there's any negative thing, I think the hunting industry and even TV shows that we produce can put a negative vibe potentially on trying to kill these big trophy animals. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, you're hunting Utah and the places we get a chance to hunt. Absolutely. You're looking for, in that case, a seven to eight year old bull.

Right. Right. You know, sometimes they might score 320 to 370. At the end of the day, the trophy is for sure a mature animal. But you also got to keep in perspective, especially if you grow up where I did, where literally there's, you know, 10 guys shared a 300 acre property that they just want to deer hunt. And they're trying to get away. Keep in mind, they still managing a family. They're still dealing with the economy. They're still dealing with everyday strife of, man, how am I going to get off work?

still get my kid to soccer practice or football practice my wife is pissed off i hadn't even took her to applebee's in the last three months you know and it's like i didn't take the kids to you know disney world and the only family picture we got in front of the shoney's big boy so man what am i gonna do but in the back of my mind like i sure would like to get off maybe saturday i could spend a little time and go up to the hunt lease and hang out maybe get a chance to shoot a deer

They're not necessarily thinking, I got to kill a deer to put it in Pope and Young and Arboon and Crockett. They're looking, it's more than just a hunt. It is a getaway. It's a, I call it, it's a cheapest, you know, antidepressant you can get on to where you can clear your mind, you can get away, hope that you can turn your phone off, get up in a tree stand or a saddle, whatever it is, whether you're hunting public or private. And we miss that in the hunting industry so many times. And there's people that are literally...

busting their ass for their family it's not a sport to hunt but it's therapeutic they grew up doing it to be able to set around a fire with other men and women sometimes and get away to cleanse yourself of everything that's going on and unfortunately i think that's what drives people sometimes crazy in the even in the city sometimes i i walked around austin today uh early had me a nice breakfast and i just walked around and ended up running to this uh children's network

that was trying to raise money where you can kind of adopt a kid and give them so much a month so man i did again i talked to everybody i just said hey man what y'all selling over here like oh man normally people don't come up and talk to us we have to sell them as a guy from europe and and a sweet girl that was you could tell that born and raised right around here anyway with that said i ended up you know i said man i want to pledge some money every month so i picked me out a kid in guatemala and so anyway with that said about that time here comes

a street person and he is cussing me and her and that fell out. I mean, the most vile words you could, I mean, cussing like a sailor, as they would say metaphorically. And I'm like, man, what's wrong with this guy? So I said, y'all get this a lot, you know, and it was just before, not far from when I come over here. And the girl said, yeah, we do get that a lot. And the guy with the British accent or the European accent said, you know, we get it quite a bit, you know, he said, but I think there's a bad batch of something right now. And I'm like, oh really? He said,

you know he said man people have been really mean lately they've been yelling and cussing and screaming at us and well by the time a guy comes back and he's like umfers i know everything and everybody's retarded and i'm and i'm like and he's right there and it's that and i'm at the point to where man you know i ain't scared you can and you can tell they experience it more than i do and i'm sitting there watching this guy and then all of a sudden uh

He's just yelling and screaming. I said, hey, buddy. I said, just so you know, we on your side, man. We love you, bro. I said, you're right. You know a lot more than people realize. You know a hell of a lot more than people realize. And I said, you cool. I'm on your team. So are they. And he said, and it was crazy. Joe, he looked at him and said, thank you. He left.

And it hit me. It was so weird. I got a little off track when I was talking about hunting, but I thought, man, the dude don't even really want to be understood. He wants to be heard. Right. And I thought, how ironic that I'm going to speak with Joe today. And anyway, the girl and the guy says, I've never seen that happen. Like, that just got diffused. You treated him like a human. Yeah. And sometimes...

It's almost like, you know, I've never figured out completely a lady, my wife. Sometimes it's always a game. And I've learned that I don't know that I'll ever understand exactly what it is she wants, but I know she wants me to hear and pay attention. And I think that's what...

society's doing, whether you're a hunter, whether you're from the city. But overall, what I have found, whether you live in the city or the country, whether you get a chance to go to a rave or go to the mothership, which I hope to go by there or not. I just want to check out the joint, you know. And so anyway, when it's all said and done, there's something about the peace and tranquility that you can refuel out in the woods and

And it brings everything to a focal point. And you can be still and be quiet. And it brings everything back. And so in reality, it's not about people going to think of you different if you shoot the biggest, highest scoring animal that you can put in the Bopin Young or the Boone and Crockett record books.

I think those of us, once we learn to respect each other and love each other's goals, that, yeah, if I know that your goal is to shoot, say, a 390 bull, that one day, you know, I'll get a call and you're going to be hyperventilating. You're like, I just did it.

Like, what? Like, dude, I swear. Well, for people who don't understand why that's so interesting to us, it's because they're the most difficult ones to get because they're the older, wiser ones. And also, when you look at it from a conservation standpoint, those are the ones that you want to hunt because those are the ones who spread their genes and they're probably about to get taken out by nature anyway. Right.

Correct. If you get an eight-year-old elk or a nine-year-old elk or a ten-year-old elk, how many years do they have left? I shot one ten-year-old elk once. His teeth were worn down to almost nothing. Just an old tank. How much time did he have left? Not much. Most likely, he was going to either starve to death or freeze to death or get stabbed in a fight with another elk. He'd get stabbed and wind up... Mountain lion jump on him. Mountain lion jump on him or freeze to death or a number of other very, very cruel endings that...

I mean, I shot that elk at 40 yards. It was a perfect shot. He was down in 15 seconds. It was no tracking. So it's like that elk died the best way possible. Yes, he did. They don't live forever and become angels. And that is a very...

good death compared to a pack of wolves or a mountain lion starting to eat on you sometimes before they're even deceased. It happens all the time. There's so many videos of that. Especially bears. Oh, bears are brutal, man. Bears are very brutal and selfish animals, man. Isn't it crazy? Like, hunting bears is the thing you get the most hate for. Oh, everybody thinks they're cuddly. I mean, I don't know if it's a Winnie the Pooh type of thing. 100%. But it's like... Teddy bears and yogi and all that shit. We're all distorted. Like,

Like when people say, you've hunted bears? I go, I've eaten bears. I've eaten three bears. They're delicious. Yeah. Like what? You eat bears? I'm like, I'll make you some bear sausage and I'll tell you what, you will fucking love it. Especially if I don't tell you what it is. You'll go, what is this? This is great. It seems like beef but different. And then if they knew how a bear's personality was, they would want to kill them. Oh, they'll kill their own kids. Oh, yeah. And eat them. To breed mama to eat them. Oh, yeah. It's just a...

It's a brutal world. You know, there was things before I even had a chance to hunt that I recognized just domestically. You know, raising rabbits, you know, those rabbits would sometimes kill the little baby rabbits themselves.

for the right and opportunity to breed again real quick with the female in the pen, you know. And I realized, and my pawpaw said, you've got to separate them. That buck rabbit killed that. I'm like, man, I didn't know that. You know, I'm 10, 11 years old trying to figure out how to raise some rabbits or watching hogs, you know, pigs. It ain't always had on a raised floor pen. He'd have to raise up a few hogs. Man, them jokers are trying to kill each other. Mean. You know who does it? Dolphins. Dolphins. Are they brutal like that? Dolphins. We think of them as sweet, intelligent. They commit infanticide all the time.

What dolphin females have to do is they have to breed with as many males as possible because when a female dolphin has babies, she has to take care of that baby for about six years. So when the male dolphins recognize a female with babies and they don't know that female, those are not his babies, he'll kill those babies. So that female dolphin will breed. So he wants to breed her. So she will breed with everybody possible so nobody knows who the babies are.

And so since they're intelligent, they understand that they've bred with that female before, so that could be their babies, so they don't kill them. So basically all the dolphins are hoes. All hoes. Yeah, that's how they have to be. Otherwise their babies get killed. So they've adopted this polyamorous strategy to try to kill, to keep the male dolphins from killing the babies. Well, that's amazing. I mean, you watch the breeding season during elk, like you was talking about those elk fighting. Oh, yeah.

And ironically, they never get things confused. Those males are looking for the females. The females know that I'm going to breed with this dude and the strongest survive. And a lot of people say, oh, they're really not trying to kill each other. No, you wasn't out there. I didn't watch this on Nat Geo. They're trying to murder each other. Oh, I've seen some amazing, epic elk fights. It's some of the greatest things to see in nature, these people.

big 800 pound animals running at each other with swords growing out of their heads. It's crash. It sounds like an old, like some kind of Scottish, Scottish,

fight back in 1400 like a sword fight almost it's like cracking baseball bats together against each other and you hear it loud you're like oh shit they're fighting and you go over there oh it's amazing it's it's crazy to watch the brutality of it and you know you'll find them occasionally dead yeah because one of them has stabbed one we we found one um i think i have video of it on my phone he had a we were hunting him he had a six inch tine sticking out of his neck

holy cow it was broken off sticking out of his neck and he's still running his cows and bugling I'm sure I have it it's I had we had the same similar thing in New Mexico this year Nick Munt who's hunts with one of my best friends we hunt a lot together he shot a good bull like first morning I was calling it was classic man bull come in he shot it and we were caping him out there on the side of the hill and

And all of a sudden, he's like, look here, man. He had a tine, again, about four inches, and it was broke off. Just right, all pussed up. Yeah, nasty. And this dude still come in. I'm going to send Jamie this picture or the video because it's so crazy. It's so cool, though, to see that and experience it. And I think it's sad that most people don't know. And there's a lot of very smart people that –

In some cases, they think it might be a little beneath them to understand what maybe hunting is truly about other than maybe what they see on a Walt Disney movie. And I think that is definitely...

Kind of fueled me to be able to help educate and talk about those things. And I know Ronella has done an amazing job of introducing that, too. And there's a lot of great ambassadors we got right now doing that. Yeah, it's a great time to be educated about this. And it's a great time. And there's a lot of people that have gotten really interested in hunting from those kind of conversations with Ronella and with Cam. No doubt. Yeah.

How did you eventually get started doing it? Because, like, that's every young guy's dream that is ever hunted. Like, oh, my God, imagine, like, making a living doing that. Like, that's what I would love to do. Oh, man. How did you pull that off? One of the coolest stories, actually, and only in America. You don't hear this story in Turkmenistan. But, you know, I...

I grew up, obviously, like I said, rural. I loved to hunt and fish. Very simple. My dad was a contractor. So I really thought that I wanted to maybe work with my dad or do what he did, hands-on labor. I knew I didn't want to be in office anyway. I'll try to keep it short. But basically what I ended up doing is just enthralled. My mom passed away when I was young, 16. And so my dad and I become more like brothers. And my dad...

he had a ninth grade education, hardest working man I've ever been around. And, uh, and so anyway, we, we loved hunting fish and it become therapeutic. And so we got an, I got a turkey calling and had won some contests and met some of, you know, my turkey calling heroes. And that's where I met Bill Jordan and David Blanton. And I started guiding when I was probably 19. So, and then one thing led to another, start working full-time there at real tree and just, uh,

As a guide, as a camera guy, they had that show on TNN. And so I was just literally camera jockeying it from skin and deer, guide and turkey hunters. And it was David Blanton who said, man, you know, there's a lot more you could do. And so I kind of by default, Joe, how I got lucky, too, was when I hooked up with those guys, David Blanton and Bill, I got to do some of the turkey calling tips because I had won some contests. And so even back on TNN, I was this young kid and they were like, hey, we need a contest.

We need a tip. You know, the TNN tip of the week, you know, brought to you by Fieldline Packs. You know, something like, you know, hey, man, I'm Michael Waddy. I want to talk to you about yelping at turkeys. I ain't know nothing about TV. So it was never top of mind. Like one day I'll be hunting on TV. I was just thinking, man, I love this enough that maybe I can do that. I can work for this company. And I remember they paid me a hundred dollars a day to go guide somebody turkey hunting.

And I told my dad, I'm about to get rich. And listen to this. They'll pay you this thing called mileage. I had an old beat up Toyota truck, four cylinder. I said, Dad, them suckers will pay me a

I don't forget what it is, but heck, if I drive an hour, I make money. And then if you stop at a convenience store, you keep your receipt, and they'll pay for your snacks, everything. I couldn't believe that because I grew up with my dad working. Like, oh, Timmy just fell off the roof. Like, well, let's call his wife, tell them to come get him. And then my dad'd be like, are you all right? And I'd be like, oh, I think I broke my leg. He was like, oh, dang, well, you're probably going to be here tomorrow, are you? No, I doubt it. I mean, it was just rough work.

almost cowboy shit, you know? And so I couldn't believe this, you know? And, uh, and so one thing led to another and that was in the early nineties, uh, right out of high school. And, uh, I'm 51 now. And that was in the early nineties and in 1994 and five, everything started heating up. And in 96, uh,

David Blanton offered me a full-time job to work in production slash guide. That had to be so surreal. To be able to make a living doing this thing that you love when no one even thought it was a job when you were a kid. Yeah. It was not a thing you aspired to. No. And my family took it hard. My grandmom and my uncles were like, I might as well just got on crack and been on the street. They're like...

I'd went to heating and air school and got a degree and worked a year with Barringers Heat and Cooling out of Zebelin, Georgia. And I had me a truck, had my name on it, you know, Michael, you know, and had me my refrigeration tools. And every Christmas, my dad, oh, boy, I got you another flaring kit. I mean, just blue-collar culture. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm coming in and telling the family, like, hey, uh,

I don't know if I'm going to keep doing the heat and air deal. You know, like, what? Like, you got a truck, son. You got your own uniform. You know, you got benefits. I'm like, yeah, but there's this camouflage company wanting me to take Dale Earnhardt turkey hunting. And my dad was the only one that got it. Everybody else is like, it was an intervention. Like, I'd go to Christmas and like, hey, nephew, let me pull you aside. Now, you know you can't make a living at this hunting and fishing thing. You know, like, well, I don't know, but I'm young and

man, this would be really cool. I love this more than anything, but it was kind of that whole situation of... It wasn't a job before. It wasn't a job. And I was trusting him, but I was sitting there thinking like, I'm pretty sure Bill Jordan's rich. I mean, I saw him with a Mercedes. He had a Mercedes Benz. And matter of fact, there's a real funny story about that Mercedes Benz. But I

I couldn't believe it. And so my grandma was like, son, when you get tired of this, just go have fun with it, but come back to it. Almost no different than if you're a young kid, like I'm going to Nashville. I want to play guitar and sing. Maybe I can be the next Luke Bryan. Yeah. And somebody in the family was like, oh, when he gets right, he'll come back, jump in the family business, start putting these shingles on the roof. Yeah. He'll get back in a sheet rock and just give him a chance. Hell, he was one of the best concrete guys I knew. That kid would work. He could run a bull float like some bitch, you know? And so that was me. And, um,

And all of a sudden they offered me a full-time job. Wasn't a lot of money. And I remember going back and saying, you know, Hey, they got all these things, 401k. I got benefits. I got eye and dental and I get to go on all these epic trips. And I met amazing people, hunted with people that I was just shell shocked. I remember I met Leonard Skinner band in a NASCAR suite one time, the maddest ever got at Bill Jordan, maddest I ever got it. Of course, you know,

Ronnie had passed on and half the members, but it was Johnny Van Zant and it was Rossington. And I'm sitting there, a redneck kid in the Atlanta Motor Speedway, like, I can't believe it. There's Mark Martin's wife. I'm like, man, I have made it. I'm over here shaking fingers. All of a sudden I look, the door opens and there was just people in there. It's the Leonard Skinner band. It looked just like what I pictured. And I'm like,

Oh, my God. You know, I'm freaking out. And Bill said, hey, ain't that a band? I said, that's not only a band. That's Leonard Skinner. And Bill Jordan said, what are they saying? I said, I swear to God, I ain't never hit my boss, but I'm about to knock you out. Are you kidding me? And I'll never forget. I went over there and I was just, you know, I got a chance to meet him.

But so many people I met, and I couldn't believe it. And one thing led to another, and really the biggest break I had was David Blanton, who was like a big brother, I mean, like a father. And he was just such a good guy, good Christian guy, good hunter. Outdoor Channel was just coming on. Outdoor Channel was really...

Kind of coming on. But at the time, you know, the kind of beat your chest kind of pride was the fact that you could be on ESPN and or TNN. And then TNN had been through a situation where I think it was Viacom had some big merger that was part of the MTV thing. And so they quickly threw their...

kind of culturally said, hey, we need to kind of do away with this hunting thing. These guys are killing stuff. And it become the Nashville. It was a Nashville network. Then it becomes a national network. Then it becomes Spike TV. And so everything moved over all the the big Sunday night block move over to ESPN. But you couldn't show impact. Well, about that time, they started the outdoor channel on cable TV. They were looking for distribution. And so it was David Blanton. He said, Michael, we need to come up with a cool hook for

And we need to create a show over on Outdoor Channel. And so getting back to meeting these people and what I found, it was fascinating. And it's just...

the same with these conversations you have, these people that you just look up to. Yeah, you meet some people that are interesting and weird, but for the most part, you're like, wow, these guys are super cool, super talented. And that's what I was finding when I would run into a country singer. I remember Mark Chestnut sitting around and drinking whiskey and him playing the guitar and singing Hank Williams Jr. song, running into Bo Cephas, running into, you know, to Leonard Skinner and all those guys. I'm like, man, these guys are so down to earth and cool. And I realized that there was more to this hunting than just this staunch,

You know, here we go with the Encinitas Ratch. Today, we're hunting the mesquite flats of Encinole. Right, right. With the coyotes abundant, there's a big buck around the corner. The narrator. Yeah, and it was just like...

At the time, it was so sanitized. It was so sanitized. Everybody was starched. Yeah. You go to a hunting show. Everybody had on khakis. I mean, it's almost like it was a facade. And and I remember telling David Blanton, I said, I think what we're missing is the culture and the fun. And everybody was very serious. And you should be serious if you're going to go take a bow and arrow or rifle and take the life of a wild animal.

But the camp life was so amazing. And we'd have different personalities, different NFL athletes. We would have comedians, people like Jeff Foxworthy. And I was just so pleased that these people that I adored and was big fans of was people that you could sit around and have a glass of sweet tea or a cold beer and just laugh. And they were as real, possibly more entertaining in person. Kind of like you talk about Theo. People ask if he's really funny. Well, you should have

Should have been with us at this UFC fight. We couldn't even watch the fight. The guys, you know, cracking us up. And so I told David, I said, I think most of these people, if we could do a show kind of documenting just a camp life and the reality of how much fun you have, I think we could sell that fun. And so David said, do it. He said, he said, matter of fact, you host it.

And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm not coming in here to pitch you for me to host a show. Behind the scenes, I'll guide. I'll run camera. I'll help edit, produce. He had sent me to Maine to this international film and art school to learn how to edit on nonlinear, the first Avid. Oh, wow. So I'm up there like, dude, I'm big. I got my business card. Like, yeah, I work for Realtree on TNN. I'm over there. And I found out that was where it really hit me that a lot of people didn't like hunting. Like, oh, my God, you kill animals? And I had all these beta tapes.

And I remember I had Dale Earnhardt killing the deer on there. And I told the instructor, I said, I need to learn how to put this in the computer and build a hunt out of it because everything was A-B roll editing. And I knew how to do that pretty good. I said, but I need to learn how to do it on this nonlinear. He said, oh, my God, we never we struggle to get footage. Y'all got these $80,000 cameras because Bill was one of the first people to buy these really high dollar beta cameras that was out video with.

and putting them in the wild and so uh anyway as that as i showed the footage he said man can we use this and let the class use this footage as a project to build storylines because i had the cutaways you know back then you'd shoot the animal you'd video that then you'd go back okay

push your safety off like now like you pretend you pretend so it's like a reenactment now let's go back and build the pre-hunt you know and it'd be like dale earnhardt walking through the forest with his gargoyles on or however and he's camouflaged like yeah we're going down here to a ridge flat a lot of acorns up there and well the deer has been dead a long time ago obviously by the time we shot that and um

So he loved that, the instructor, because it gave us a chance to put the storyline. And I thought, man, I'm going to be the hero. You know, all these little girls up here in Maine and I ain't never seen a lot of people with purple hair and stuff. And I could tell it was kind of that cool hippie trend and it was artsy and

But in my mind, I'm like, I'm just having a good time. And anyway, dude, immediately, Joe, it become a protest. There was two or three people stood up in the class like, we're not using this. We cannot. We will walk out. These animals are getting dead. If you can prove these animals were not harmed. And I'm like, no, they're all dead. I mean, they're dead. I mean, the...

And finally, I had a little bit of a meltdown because that was one of the first times that it really hit me where I had a mass of people saying, you know, almost felt like the Antichrist because I'm the guy killing deer. And I thought it was going to be the opposite. I was ready to name drop. Like, look, I got Dale Earnhardt. I video shooted. I was ready to name drop. And it just all. You just had never experienced anti-hunting. Never. And so I learned that. And then one thing led to another. I remember I went to the instructor. I said, man, look, I'm a little bit bothered. You know, it is what it is.

But even if you have to teach me after class, I need to learn how to do this. I'm not doing – I'm a student, but I come up here. My employer sent me up here. I got to learn how to do this. So I came back pretty efficient as a nonlinear editor person.

all of it didn't have any desire to know that that's what I wanted to do but I was just wanting to you know sweep the warehouse if you want me to edit you want me to take somebody hunting you need me to put up a fence skin a buck you know whatever and then when David gave me that opportunity to do real tree road trips back in the day it was in 2003 it aired we shot it in 2002 that's when everything for me because it was all about personality it was all about having fun and

We kind of come up with a tagline, this is a different kind of hunting show. Well, you were the first guy to bring fun and personality to hunting television. Oh, yeah. We tried so hard. You were the first guy. It looked like you were having a good time with your friends. It wasn't this stuffy presentation of hunting, like, here he goes in the wild of Montana. He won't go far. Where grizzly bears abound.

Hunting for the elusive mule deer. Exactly. The hilarious whitetail uses secondary scrapes as he approaches his staging area. Exactly. You were having a good time. You were laughing and cutting up. And I think that's what made you famous in that world. It's like you were representative of what people really liked.

It's just someone having a good time and enjoying themselves, which is really what a lot of the hunting is. It's a lot of bonding and camaraderie. Like the camp time is almost as fun as the hunting time, you know, and you're all just sort of winding down at the end of the day, having a good time together, relaxing, telling stories and laughing. It was. And even to this day, it's kind of still where we kind of settle in. And it's like...

You know, honestly, I'm not really trying to out hunt anybody, but we'll try to out fun everybody. And so if you, you know, if you come to camp, you know, and this is myself, big time,

big old t-bone he you know he lost his leg so he's not hunting with us as much you can't you can't get around to cancer he lost his leg and then but nick and i i mean we're going to have a good time and if you desire to get serious which we do encourage hey it's time to buckle down there's a time for fun there's a time to to haunt it in but we just make try our best to make it fun and i've learned that if you do that and you can make friends that's

the biggest form of the trophy you'll ever get. Yes, that's a trophy, but the stories you got with sitting with Rinella and the people around the camp and that experience, you meet people from all over the country, in our case, the world. And then next thing you know, it's like even more special. And so I know people, I say it a lot. I know people that's got some amazing trophy rooms and,

But they're lonely, they're dusty, and they really ain't made a lot of friends because they were so beating their chest to kill the next biggest thing that they forgot that the trophy is relationships and the adventure. And yes, inevitably, this deer that's hanging on the wall that your family has enjoyed over a period of sometimes a year. Sometimes it'll take you a year or two to eat elk, a full elk. It's a lot of meat, but...

I don't know, man. It's just an amazing journey. And I mean, I never felt like I was that talented. It's other than the fact I just had a lot of good work ethic my dad put in me and I was really had a passion for it. And and I didn't have really any weird opposition pulling me away from it. It pulled me toward it. But growing up so rural and blue collar, I had to prove to my family that there was a livelihood here because they literally looked at it like.

We need to get that boy drug tested. I don't know. Listen to this. He thinks he's going to video deer hunts. That's what he thinks. And he's going to skin a few. He's going to take a few celebrities hunting, and he's going to get free camo. But you can't eat that camo. You know? Yeah. And I ain't going to buy the Salisbury steak. How are you going to go to Bonanza? Well, it's interesting because—

Fun and personality and camaraderie are infectious. It's like people, they're drawn to it. But it's not something you can manufacture. You either have a great personality or you don't.

But having a great personality is very marketable. So it's kind of a weird sort of catch. Like you can't pretend you're that person because people won't buy it. You have to actually. The reason why it worked with you is because this is who you really are. That's you. Right. And so you didn't even know you had this thing that was marketable. No. It was just you being a person. It's a great point because to this day, I'll go to, and aside because I'm now,

You know, I know you love classic cars, and I hear about the things you talk about, and obviously I'm a big fan of the podcast. And so one thing that draws me in is the fact that culturally we're into the same things. You know, Rubik's Cubes and 80s, and I always—my favorite car was a 70 Supersport, you know, Chevelle. I have one of those. Dude, I— Black with white stripes. Oh, my God. I love it. The same one like on John Wick, basically. Yes, exactly. That's a 70. Yeah. So anyway, I was just so—

just amazed by I don't know it's just all of it and and uh and and even now when I meet people that's the first thing they'll say after we hang out and I just had it up at Cactus Jack with uh with Cameron I had two or three of the guys like hey man and these are older guys like appreciate you Waddell man you just like I thought you'd be and it kind of takes me back it's not offensive but I'm like what what was I supposed to be and I guess I realize and

Cameron, I've talked a lot about that, about like it's odd that there is a thing that is fake, that people can't be transparent, that people can't just talk their feelings. And everything we say don't mean our assessment is always correct, but at least it is something to be heard and told. And then the more you talk, I think that's what reshaped the politics this year. When you look at Trump coming on, J.D., Harris passed.

Well, it proves like, well, did you really have something to say? And could it be valid? And could you be real? And everybody, I think, appreciates real, even if they don't like the person that they see necessarily as real. And now everything's in question. It's like, you know, it's like these rappers, are they really as tough as they say? Right. Was Diddy gay? I thought this dude, I thought.

I thought he had done shot more stuff than I have, you know? And it's like, you know, I don't know. I don't know. It's just like it's... Yeah, well, when people ask me all the time, like, oh, you met Jelly Roll, what's he like? He's exactly like you hope he'd be like. The same.

That's right. That's why he's popular. That's a genuine, real human being. Like Luke Bryan. Exactly. Just like you like. Funny, goofy, good, cool cat. Luke Combs, same thing. That's exactly who he is. And that's what people are worried about, someone not being like that. Like you see someone who's real fun on TV and they're real friendly and then you meet them in real life like, oh, that guy's an asshole. He's mean to waitresses and he's shitty to the fucking valet driver. You know? It's...

You want people to be what you hope them to be, but oftentimes you're prepared for them to not be that. Yeah. You represent that too, Joe. It's like, you know, I remember going –

to Utah and hunting I was like hey man you know this before I ever knew I'd get a chance to meet you and talk with you and I said how's Joe and he's like and then first thing I asked Cameron's like dude he's unbelievable so you meet and you are that person and in a question for you I've often wondered do you think that's starting to affect Hollywood a little bit to where now if you look at the most successful people it is the realest people you know people might not even like say a Donald Trump but people are gravitated because they think hey man this is him this is real uh

I think the best thing for people in Hollywood that are entrenched in that world is to shut the fuck up. Because as soon as they start talking, as soon as Robert De Niro starts talking, I'm like, Jesus, get that fucking microphone away from him so I can enjoy Taxi Driver.

Yeah, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Yeah, I don't want to hear. I love De Niro. I love those mob movies. I don't want to hear that he's a moron. I don't want to hear him talking about politics and about Trump supporters and just shut the fuck up, man. Yeah. Like, you didn't think this through. And he's getting yelled at. He's doing an outside press conference like, Robert, you're 80 years old. Don't ruin this thing. You've had this life where you were a fucking raging bull. You know, you were in The Godfather. Like, stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop doing this. Don't do this. I'm terrified to meet some of those people I looked up to now. You should be. I've met a few of them. It's actors in particular because their whole business is pretend.

Their whole business is pretend. You know, one of the things about guys like Theo or comedians, you run into comedians, their business is the opposite of pretend. It's real. Their business is just being a real person talking shit. Yeah. They're professional shit talkers. Yeah. You know, having fun, being silly, talking shit about things. And...

Actors are not that. They're weird people, man. And the one thing that's harming them in Hollywood is that they get exposed for being who they really are. And a lot of these people that pretend to be all, you know, clean cut and find out they're into freaky shit. And, you know, it's like.

And it's easier to expose stuff now because social media, I'm sure, like back in the day, I can only imagine the parties that Waylon Jennings and Merle Haggard. Can you imagine? Some of these pictures on the wall in here. Can you imagine some of the stuff? They didn't have to worry about nobody. Right. I mean, there was really— Rock stars. Leonard Skinner. Can you imagine? Led Zeppelin. All those people. The parties. Hendrix. Oh, yeah. Jim Morrison. Crazy. Oh, God. Craziness and no accountability. Nothing. Nothing.

And all they got to do is like, I was not there. Prove it. And now you can't go on an elk hunt and everybody knows you're there. Everybody's got a fucking camera in their pocket. Everybody. Everything is being filmed. And so many people get exposed for who they really are. It's weird.

But it's also probably good for humanity. It's good for – one of the things that I think is the rise of podcasts is people get to see real people having real conversations. And some people can do it and some people can't. And I think the Harris thing was they were worried that she couldn't.

I think they made a good assessment that she couldn't. I don't know, man. I mean, I've seen her have fun with people. There's this one very funny conversation where she's talking about meeting her in-laws for the first time where her mother-in-law grabs her face. And it's really funny. It's funny listening to her saying she's laughing hard, but a real laugh this time. Maybe she could now, though. Maybe she's so—if there is a machine. Because you know what is fair to say? Even on Harris, I'll say this.

Kamala. And that's what's amazing to me. I didn't think she had a chance to win because I didn't even know... I still don't know what her name is. I mean, I don't know. What the hell? Is it Kamala Kamala? I think it's Kamala. It's Kamala. Well, it's like, well, I'm probably going to screw it up. It's like, you know, and then CNN is going to be like, yeah, you heard...

Rogan didn't even call her name right. But at the end of the day, maybe now that she's out of that whole situation because you see, and I think the world's changing where record producers and stuff are controlling music and if you're going to get on a radio station to where everybody walks a tightrope. You're working for this machine. Hollywood, I'm sure, the same way. You've got people that I can't.

I remember Ted Nugent tells a story. Was it Kurt Russell? He was one of his best friends was Kurt Russell. And Kurt likes to hunt. And this was Ted just telling me in a hunting camp. And I asked him, I said, man, you know, how is Kurt? You know, I love his movies, too. I'm a big fan. He said, dude, Kurt is amazing. He said, but he had to to

to a degree, during that time frame, bow to that machine because he couldn't do these things. So I think now it's like you don't know what's real because you don't know if they are trying to do this for a career or if they can be real. And then at times, okay, I believe De Niro, in his case, is finally his true colors and finally like I'm enough to where I can be real. But the real you do see in him, I'm like, go back to being fake. Just kidding.

Come back to me and play. I don't want to see this. Oh, you really are. No, I don't want to hear someone lecturing me that I just. Oh, it's so sad. It's crazy. But I think real conversation like celebrities were always people that were on a pedestal and you didn't think of them as real people. You know, you never got to see John Wayne having long form conversations where he explains his position on this or that. You just never saw any of that.

And I think more of that is being exposed now. And I think it's probably good for all of us to not have these ridiculous perceptions of these people and think of them as being larger than life characters. They're just humans. They're just regular people. They're all just human beings. And some of these regular human beings are really fucking good at playing bad guys. But you meet them in real life and they're real super sweet. They're really nice people. They're just good at their job. Their job is pretending to be an asshole. That's right. You know? And it's what we...

the more conversations we have, the more conversations that we're,

that we have access to, the more we get to see the patterns of how human beings think and behave, and the more we get to see what we like. And generally what we like is nice people being real. I totally agree. That's what people like. And that perspective, you shine, you know, obviously you got a lot of respect for Mike Tyson. I think he's the baddest boxer, toughest. I mean, I idolized him as a boxer. I didn't know much about him as a man or what he was going through at the time, but like when it come time to watch a boxing bout, uh,

Tyson's on the card. There was no one like him. But what a sweetheart of a man. I listened to it and just the things he says. He's so sweet that, you know, he says things that you don't even know if he's funny. Like he was talking about, you know, Joe, you ever get erect when you fight? You know, and I think you giggled and he's like, no, I'm serious. You know, and I'm like, whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

All I'm sitting here thinking is like, I feel you, Tyson. I was hunting elk in New Mexico in Bullcum Bugling, and I was kind of getting like $5 worth of jawbreakers. It was getting there because I was getting excited about this adrenaline of this elk. So, okay, you're doing it fighting. But in my mind, I thought it was kind of a joke too. But he's such a sweet guy.

He's a sweet guy, but there's a monster in there. Dude. And he can hit that switch. He's scary. Still scary. Oh, he scared the shit out of me. Meeting him the first time, like, I think Kevin Hart was the first one to say it. He said it was like, it's like you're in the room with a lion. It's like, you're like, okay. You can probably tell him. Is the lion cool? He's not going to kill me? Okay. You know, it's like, Jesus. But it was, there's certain people that I meet that, like,

You know, I meet him and I'm like, I can't believe I'm in the room with Quentin Tarantino. Like, that is bizarre. That was – There's a few of those people that you meet them. You know, Trump's one of those people. Yeah. You meet him like, oh, he's right there. A presence that's undeniable. That guy, unlike anybody else –

can be himself. Yes. That guy can be himself no matter what. He can be himself at press conferences. He can be himself on a podcast. That's a huge strength that he can be himself. You either like who he is or you dislike who he is, but you have to respect that guy can be himself. He is. And guess what? The more you talk about somebody like Donald Trump, like him or love him, he has pretty much as now, you know, the second time he's going to be president, he is accessible to the people in a weird way, meaning he's

I had a chance to even meet Trump. He, talking about the hunting industry, he came to Las Vegas. We used to have this thing called a Golden Moose Awards. And I knew Donald Jr., he was a big hunter. And anyway, the word got out that, hey, Trump, this is prior to the election, the 16 election. He came to Las Vegas to say, hey, man, there's 13 to 15 million hunters out there. I need to see where they, see what the situation is here. I think they're good people. And I hear this from my sons, Eric and Donald. So he

He comes there and I had a chance to meet him. And same thing. It was like, wow, this is before he's president. He's still Donald Trump. And and I remember I didn't know much if I could, you know, in my mind, is this the guy I'm going to vote for? He was still in the primaries.

But I remember the first thing he said to me, he said, his Donald Jr. introduced me to him, said, Dad, you know, this is Michael Waddell. He works in the hunting industry, does hunting shows. He said, man, immediately, so nice. But I remember the words he said that I knew he wasn't a politician, was real. He said, so you do a lot of hunting. And I can't do the impression, but I said, yes, sir, I love it.

That's all I love to do. He said, I'm not good at it. I don't have the patience. My son, they're very efficient. They're very efficient. They're very good. They hunt all around the world. He said, but I got a question. These wolves, what's the deal with the wolves? They're killing a lot of shit. And I said, Mr. Trump, it really is a problem. I got friends and ranchers out there. These wolves, they reintroduced them. They spent millions of taxpayers' dollars out there. And this is, in my mind, if I am playing this role of

inferior or redneck or insecure in my mind I'm trying to talk humbly to kind of help him know what I know some friends out in Colorado have going through from cattle to domestic problems to the elk population he said well it's simple if they're causing a problem we need to do something about the wolves

And I remember thinking, I'm voting for this dude. I'm voting for this dude. I don't care what he's talking about grabbing because I'd been to a few little nonprofit, you know, in Washington, D.C., with lobbyists and stuff where we're trying to get some money from a bill for the NWTF and Brooding Habitat or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. And I found most of the politicians were decently fake.

Almost similar to a California, LA actor type of deal. Very similar. Where it's like, okay, if I need to be nice to this guy, I will be, but I need to figure out who he is and if he's got credentials and what power he has. Yes. And so for me, here I am feeling like I'm the lowest level.

person in this room all these other guys are you know heads of major corporations within the hunting industry and I'm just this guy who likes to turkey hunt it's got this show on the outdoor channel and I'm getting a chance to shake his hand but he's just as real with me as he is the guy who maybe is maybe the richest guy in the room or possibly the most famous guy in the room and I found that fascinating that he was that way and

On the other hand, I'm over there talking to a senator at Washington, D.C. at a party a lobbyist put together. And it's like everything like, good to meet you. I, too, like to hunt and so gratifying to see the sunrise. And I'm like. Just a fake person. Just complete.

Yeah, weird, right? Yeah. It's weird when you're around them. Because if you're capable of talking to people fake like this, what are the things that you're capable of? What are you capable of? Yeah. You're a strange human. That's exactly right. And your whole aspiration is to stay fake and to make as much money possible while being fake. Exactly. And the whole time, again, I never dug into politics. I'm talking to a guy that once I do go back and Google, he come into office, he was making...

You know, he's making as a senator, I don't know what, 50 to 100 grand a year. And now he's worth and it's all he's ever done. Now he's worth 10 billion dollars, 10 million dollars. Like how? Like where did that come from? I don't think my grandmama would understand that either. Nobody understands it. It's like so transparent and it's right in front of your face. Like the Nancy Pelosi situation. She's never made more than one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars a year. She's worth a hundred and something million dollars. How does that happen?

It's like corruption. Corruption. It only happens through corruption, and it's transparent legal corruption. It's very strange. And it's on both sides. It happens everywhere. If you look at the stock trading and the red versus blue, they're both right up there. They all have inside information. They're all— And they put Martha Stewart in jail for it, didn't they? Yes. Well, they actually put her in jail for lying. She lied to federal investigators. That's what they— Ah, I got you. But it was Comey. It was the same guy who went after Trump.

it's real wild it's real wild when you see what it really is all about and there's politics on both sides and it's not a right or a left thing it's a power and corruption thing I feel like there is a little bit of momentum that feels like there's a little bit of a cleansing process it's going to

take a long time, I think, to get there. But I think everything that's happening now, it feels through opportunities and outlets like this that people can talk and people can understand what's real in fiction or at least debate. Yeah. It seems like everything from...

I don't know, the political world to just everything about the truth about whether it's hunting and fishing, the truth about the cosmos, possibly some of the stuff about ancient civilization to, you know, people and people that love Jesus Christ. You can really dig deep and you can have good conversations and it's not just dictated by a certain machine. And I love that. That's pretty amazing that all of us can come together and have a conversation.

Yeah, it's a good time. It's a crazy time to be alive, but I think it's a beautiful time. It's amazing, man. I really do. And only in America, baby. Only in America. Only in America. I have more hope for this country right now after this election than I've had in a long, long time.

I do too.

I do, too. And I find I still got friends that are diehard Democrats and pretty darn liberal. Believe it or not, even me that that works in the hunting industry and even them, I feel a sense of almost like I was having a conversation with a friend of mine from New York about this and he's liberal. But he was like, listen, everybody pretends that they're mad that Trump won. But there's a recognizable feeling of relaxation in New York. Yeah. Like like.

Like some sense of logic has prevailed. No one really believed that she was going to be a great president. And they certainly didn't believe that Tim Walsh was going to be a great vice president. That was crazy. That was crazy that that guy was supposed to be one heartbeat away from the fucking president. And then they also knew that there was so much corruption involved. Everybody knew what they were doing with the Twitter files and all that other shit. There's so much that like...

This is probably the right way. I know. Yeah. I mean, and people were paying attention that have never been intrigued. Yes. And I think a lot of things happen there. It's like, you know, most people, you know, somebody asked me, you know, how do you know when you're rich? And I said, well, when you don't know what a gallon of milk costs. That's to me. Right. Because I remember growing up in that same rural area and...

you know, my grandmama and stuff. But when I could sit there and talk to my youngins, you know, my son Mason, I said, Mason, when you come down, run by and get us a gallon of milk, you know, get us some cereal. We'll just have cereal and I got some sausage, but get us a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread.

Well, that never was the case when I was a kid. Grandma would say, hey, run by. Look, don't go to Big Star. It's 25 cent more over there. Go over there to Giant Mark. They got a deal right now. As a matter of fact, go buy me a couple packs of that ground round. They're running a special. Gallon of milk. They knew their drive over here, knew where gas was the cheapest. And when you get to a place to where you know you're doing pretty well, it's like, I need some gas. Pull over. Yeah. You ain't worried about driving across town. Just save a quarter. Yeah.

My friend Brian has this thing. I say it all the time. He said, this is how rich you want to get. We can go to a restaurant and order whatever you want and not worry about it. Yep. Everything after that is bullshit. And then look and say, hey, I want to tip 20 percent or 25. You do the math. Just write it on there. Yeah, that's that's you are rich and you are blessed if you can do that. Everything else on top of that, you don't really notice it. It's kind of bullshit.

I 100% agree with that. And I think that backfired on a little bit of the whole Harris thing when she said, no, everything's good.

And she's telling that to people who know exactly where the cheapest milk is. And they were going to vote for her. And they're like, no, it ain't. I'm struggling out here. And then you're telling, you know, like we're blessed to go to these hunting places. But they're not cheap places to hunt, to be able to technically trespass on these properties that are privately owned. And if you were to go on a public elk hunt, you know, the private public. Well, look.

Go get us a yurt. If we did right now, me, you, and Cam and Remy planned us a good DIY hunt. It's like, well, Joe, you going to get the yurt? I'll go get the mountain house. Cam's like, hey, man, I got plenty of mountain ops and whatever, and I'll bring some coffee. Can you imagine putting a yurt out in the middle of Idaho? Can you imagine? But I promise you, if we just dug it.

Yeah. Dutched it. We still got three or four grand a piece. Yeah. And we're going out there to go hunt. Yeah. Just in supplies and setups. Oh, yeah. Just in your bow and your arrows and your broadheads and your fucking range finder and your minos and your gear and your clothing and your boots. Yeah.

the tires on your truck and gas and this and that, and then tags and, Oh, it's, it's not cheap. Oh, it's not cheap. Like I said, you could either buy you a small farm in Kentucky or just get you a new bow. I mean, that's what it feels like these days, you know, but I tell you, it's, it's, it's absolutely so amazing that we get a chance to even do it and even get back to hunting. I tell people all the time, it's like, you know,

I've always stood by the fact, I don't think you're a badass that you hunt. I think it's just badass that we can have that opportunity in America and that we can fall back on that. And if times do get hard, there's a certain piece once you understand the craft of it, a little bit of that rule of living and knowing how to skin a deer, knowing how to

knowing the best parts and yes you can't eat it all you know um you can eat organs you can eat real meat you can do all those things but at the end of the day there's a certain piece as a man especially and i think overall even though we're in a world to where you know we got these equality and women can do what men can do or supposedly but at the end of the day i've always looked at it that

My job is to provide safety, some type of structure, food, and care for my family. And any man that's out there that knows nothing about nature, that if these cities shut down, that would be a terrifying experience. The Mercedes won't start. The Wi-Fi don't come on. You can't run down to Starbucks. And all of a sudden, you can't go to the market or call Uber Eats to deliver you sushi or

Or your favorite pizza. And you've got to walk to where the animals are. Now you've got to walk. And you have no skill set. Yes, I sometimes. But guess what? I've gotten pretty good at the cities. I know how to work these apps. I can grab me an Uber. I can go talk to somebody. Or I can Google it and say, man, I'm going to walk down here to this steakhouse tonight. You can certainly navigate their world a whole lot better than they can navigate yours. The world that me and you love the most is hard to navigate for some people. And I think they're starting to realize it. And I really noticed it. It's a long learning curve. Hard.

it takes forever and there's a piece i i told somebody a while back i said man i'm gonna tell you when you become a hunter and you understand it and you become simple um all the financial situations you might gain money's nice i agree that it don't necessarily bring you happiness it is great to be able to have the money to do those things we talked about just eating or maybe it is that 70 chevelle it's like i've always wanted and i and you can buy it um

But at the end of the day, there's a peace comes to know that I could potentially lose it all. But if I got my wife and my kids and I got this bow and arrow, I might actually gain a little bit because now there's no I got peace and tranquility. I got a certain stillness that is more valuable than anything I could find at the rave or in the middle of the city. And so I've often told people, even if you love the city life, which I'm

what people might not realize. I love the city life. It's so fun to visit, but that's just it. I want to visit. I'm ready to get back out. Like the thought of things I could do in Austin,

There's a million things. My mind's going wide open. Like, man, I'd love to go to the comedy club. Well, I love it. Man, I heard the steakhouse is great. I got they got this. They got that. This place got the best martinis and this cigar bar. But once I do all that, I'm ready to go back to the campfire here. Whipple wheels and coyotes howling like you ain't gonna believe. And I'm puffing on me a Fuente cigar like you ain't gonna believe the steakhouse that Joe told me about.

It's heaven. It's heaven. Well, I think, Michael, one of the things that people really enjoy about you and I've enjoyed talking to you is you have a genuine gratitude towards life. You know, it's infectious. It's real. And I think appreciation for this beautiful, chaotic world that we live in is a virtuous thing. It's a very important thing. Well, that means a lot. And to be able to...

To see that, it means more to me than anything because I do. I mean, I don't even know how and why sometimes. I ask myself, and I mean, like I said, I've just been so blessed, and it's been amazing. The people I've met and learned so much,

And I mean, it's just, I don't know how it happened. Going back to that thought in my grandmama's living room, like, what are you doing, boy? You know, it's like you got a brand new flaring kit. That's also one of the reasons why it's so cool. Yeah. It worked out that way. It wasn't like it was all easily planned out and just a natural path for you to go down. Did you have much of that, Joe? Like, obviously growing up where you did and I mean, you've

I mean, same amazing opportunity. You had so many cool things that's happened. Did you ever have any people like, what is Joe doing? Oh, yeah, everyone. My parents, for sure. You're going to be a comedian? Yeah, what the fuck are you doing? Like, you're not even funny. They didn't want me to fight when I started fighting. They're like, you're going to get hurt. They didn't want me to do comedy because I was good at fighting. Like, why don't you stick with that? It was just no matter what, there's always going to be people that doubt you, especially if you want to do something that's high risk, low probability of success.

You know, it made me dig deep because I think of that. And the reason I ask you that is because...

That experience I had with my family was kind of mind-boggling because I thought they would see it as I did. And I think there's a difference in perception or the way we perceive things and the true reality possibly because you've got to sometimes bring yourself out and look back in from their point of view. And I learned it as I've become a parent because now I've got kids and they're wanting to do something. I've got a boy, Mason. He moved to Charleston, South Carolina. And all of a sudden, I've become a grandmama. In my mind, I've got, hey, when I get back –

Christy, we're going to have some cornbread and collard greens and fried chicken. I want to come back and tell you because he listens to every episode. My son McCoy, Meyer, all of them. So in my mind, I got them pictured living in a little old house right there around the farm.

Well, he ups and moves to Charleston, South Carolina. I'm like, what are you doing? Are you on crack? Now you tell me. What are you doing? And it hit me. It's like, man, I'm being my grandmama. I'm being Uncle Tommy. And the reason they was that way, say with your parents, people love us so much.

that they don't want us to fail. And I think inevitably we can fail people as the people we love the most because we want to keep them safe. I don't want my... You know, I know it's a world where a woman can go out there and cut wood. I don't want my damn wife cutting wood. I'll cut the wood. Let me get the calluses. I don't want my wife going to the door. You know, if a villain's at night, I'm not saying she couldn't shoot more better than me. I don't know. But at the end of the day, I love her enough. I don't want her hurt. I don't want my kids to fail. But in reality...

Why not? Somebody's got to do these small percentiles. Somebody got to be a Michael Jordan. Yeah. How did Michael Jordan? What was his? Somebody say you can't make a living. You know, I'm sure somebody. And so I think we want to put everybody in a safe spot. And if you think about it, if 80 percent or 90 percent of people can do these things. Well, guess what? Go try the 10, 20 percent. If you fail, jump back into the 80, 90 percent and you can at least say you tried.

At least say I tried to make somebody laugh on a stage. At least say I tried to sell a Hoyt bow enough to make money and they'd give me a percentage of something or have my name on a bow. I don't know. You can at least try it. I don't think it makes you arrogant or...

overzealously confident. It's just, why not? Well, I think there's people that are afraid to try that will try to attack you for trying. There's that. There's crabs in a bucket. There's that. There's people that don't want someone to take a risk and succeed because they never took a risk and they don't want to confront themselves with that thought. They don't want to be confronted with the reality of what they've done with their life. Maybe they did have a dream. Maybe they did want to be like Luke Bryan.

Maybe they did want her to be on stage singing. Maybe they did want her to do something extraordinary, and they never really took the chance. And so when they see you taking the chance, they want to fill you with doubt. They do. It's an unnecessary and unfortunate aspect of human nature. I see that, and I feel that from time to time. But it makes you appreciate the people that encourage people more. It really does. And I texted several people all the time, especially when I think about it, people along the way who said, hey—

Hey, buddy, let me pull you back. Stay away from this stuff, but you're special in this. You go do this and keep doing this. Man, people don't realize what that means. I think about that street person. It's like just – I mean, literally –

me in the right mood, especially with this young lady right there, I'd have wanted to hit him. And I don't know mixed martial arts, but I know a goddang haymaker and he didn't see it coming. And, I mean, he was calling this girl all kind of names and you MFers, y'all, and all it took was me to say, hey, bro, I'm on your side. And,

Immediately, he was just like, he just wanted to be heard, and maybe that's it. Maybe he was—I don't know. People just get tired of being outcasts, you know? People want community. They really do. They want friends. It's like you were saying before, the relationships you make in this life, that's the real trophy. It is, and that's the one thing, I guess—

the last thing I'd want to leave about the hunting community and I think you felt it just from people you've seen or maybe researched and like Cameron said he said man you don't find a better student than Joe said he knows more about broadheads than the companies himself he researches this stuff he knows the geometry of bows and brace heights he's so dig deep he said he just he loves it and I was and it made me feel so good to know that you're that deep into it and

But when you start looking at so many of these things that's out there for us,

What I find about the hunting community, it is a community of people that welcomes all. It doesn't matter. It really does. And they want you to learn, and they're so appreciative that you might just take a look into this culture that sometimes can be criticized, that sometimes be judged and think we're barbaric or we're hillbilly or uneducated or just ruthless. And what you'll find is there is a part of that that with dipping into nature, Mother Nature, you have to kind of become an animal with that and be –

Like the bear, like the predator, you are a killer. You have to come to full draw to feed your family. But

it's so welcoming and I've never seen anybody alienized. I've never seen anybody that I've thought that was a solid person within the industry and are just people around my house that wouldn't bring in, feed you and say, come on, let me show you what this is about, boy or young lady. And, uh, I'm proud of that and I'm confident and I know that there's nobody, even the people that might talk bad about them, they're going to treat them good. And, um, I remember I

one thing that was epic that happened, Joe, and it hit me pretty hard. My daughter, Addie, had asked me, said, you know, Dad, what would, what, in a situation if we're at school and there's something bad happening, you know, I was talking about some of the school shootings and I saw we just had one. I'm like,

what should I do? And I was like, was there any kind of mandate of what you should do? And they said, well, they say do this, this and this, hide under your desk and sit there and wait and they locked the doors. I said, well, I'm about to go against protocol, Addie. I said, and I knew her school. They had these outside doors that went out and quickly there in Harris County, Georgia, it goes off into the wilderness. You know, matter of fact, my farm is right across from the high school. And I said, Addie, I'll tell you what I want you to do. If

If something goes awry, I said, you know, you've hunted with me a lot and you understand, you know, how to hide and slip around and stuff like that. I said, if something happens and you can see that exit door and you can get out and you can hit the woods, I want you to go right then. Don't wait around. I want you to go figure out the situation. Like if a bear is coming in the tent, you get out of the tent and get up the tree or what you got to do. And I said, but here's what I want you to do.

I said, you go and I ain't never told you to judge somebody because I don't believe in judging a book by the cover. I don't. I don't believe in that. But I said, but in this case, in this adverse moment, you go out and you find a beat up old Chevrolet truck. It's got an NRA sticker on it.

maybe a beat-up minivan with a mom riding around with some uh you know maybe it is that old 70 chevelle because that guy appreciates good cars and you jump out and you stop him it's gonna be a complete stranger but i want you to pick out that person i said you know you and find out and i said if you find somebody with a four-wheel drive truck that you know it probably resembles your granddaddy

or me or Nick Mutt and all these guys you jump in there they're going to have a little snack they're definitely going to have a gun in there and you tell them what happened they will protect you until they can find me

And when I thought about that, I was dead serious. But then I thought that goes beyond my daughter. Anybody, it wouldn't matter if you was Muslim, Christian or goth or whatever. If you did that in the country, somebody is going to stop. Hey, man, what's going on? They're going to quickly evaluate it. And I'm not saying everybody won't. I think most people has an opportunity. But if you raise around that culture to where you're ready to help and you're ready to assist everybody.

love is so deep and the nature and the human nature is to protect and to make sure this person is doing good, even if they don't align in thought process. And so I'm proud to come from that. And that's probably my biggest joy, whether it's taking a Jim Brewer or Theo is when they see it, that's always, even if they don't get something, they're like, man, this was cool. This was fun. It's some good folks.

a little scared of y'all. A little scared of y'all. And Theo and all of them said, man, something happens. I'm coming to your house, Waddell. And Kayla Preston was at this little function. He said, Waddell, my wife, his fiance, I don't think he's married yet. He said, my wife said, hey, if something happens, we're going to Michael Waddell's house. He said, you don't even know where he lives. He said,

She said, well, I'm still going there. And so anyway, that's just cool. I'm proud of that. And that ain't anything to do with me. That's just a culture. It's such an amazing opportunity to share that. Michael, I really enjoyed talking to you, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here. It was a lot of fun. Thank you, man. Tell everybody what your social media is, where they can find your hunts online. Oh, yeah. Obviously, bonecollector.com. We're on Instagram.

at official bone collector i think it is and then uh there's a michael waddell page there's there's a bone collector page and heck i'm on tiktok so yeah all right i'm dancing around over there too so i'm on everything it's china spying on me too but anyway sure thank you joe i've been a fan a long time appreciate it it was a lot of fun thank you very much all right bye everybody