#2284 - Ian Carroll
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Welcome. Dude. Very nice to meet you. Yeah, good to be here, man. So, let's take, first of all, why do we love conspiracies so much? Because I fucking love them. Dude. I love them. I love finding out the dirty little tactics and secrets and how the government does things and what the fuck's really going on. Why is it so exciting? I think it's something like deep down in humanity. It's like, we love storytelling. Yeah. And...

And these days, conspiracy theories are like, we, I mean, 10 years ago, conspiracy theories were fringe and they were problematic. Tell me about it. Right. I,

I was a conspiracy theorist way back in the day when you were a fucking nut. Dude, you were a conspiracy theorist when I was not even here yet. I was arguing with people about the moon landing on the radio before there was any podcasts. I mean, maybe there's some of the mystery element. But the thing is that so many of them are, it's a knowledge. It's a thirst for knowledge because some of them are total bullshit.

But some of them are clearly there's something there. Clearly. Right? Yeah. And realistically, if you had like the journalists of integrity from 1960s era alive today and they hadn't been bought out and shot in the head and whatever else happened. Dude, I think even in the 60s they were compromised. Well, they were getting bought out. The big one is Woodward with the Watergate story.

Yeah, did you see Bill Murray when I had Bill Murray in here the other watch the yet? No Bob Woodward wrote wired Which is about John Belushi Bill Murray read five pages of it and he said holy shit. They framed Nixon and

He said the Bob Woodward story about Belushi was so full of shit. It was so exaggerated and fake and just filled with nonsense. He's like, John Belushi was a lightweight. He goes, John Belushi would drink three beers and he'd be drunk.

He goes, he was probably the first speedball he ever took and he died from it. Like this whole thing about him being this raving, drug-fueled maniac was totally fabricated. It's a good example of how the mainstream narrative had Nixon as a crook. And he's just one of many examples, right? And when you really start to look into it, you realize, I mean, probably not the greatest guy.

But what was the real story there? What were I framing who are why are they trying to get him out? Yeah, no, this is not a defense of Nixon. It's not a great guy But Tucker thinks that Nixon knew about too much about the JFK assassination and want to talk about it Mm-hmm, and he started saying I know who killed JFK Yeah, and he started he started yapping and they were like, let's get this motherfucker out of here and also one of the terms that he had agreed to to run for president was has Gerald Ford

Who was on the fucking Warren Commission. Bingo. Gerald Ford as his VP. So Gerald Ford becomes the first ever non-elected president. He slips in. He becomes president for kind of a bullshit term. Does a whole bunch of war party things and just a whole bunch of bullshit. And we decide that Nixon was the real problem with the country. I mean, how often is it that they're allowing someone that they aren't sure about to get to president and they're sticking them with a VP that is their guy?

Oh, yeah. Dick Cheney. LBJ with JFK. Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney. Everybody. Mike Pence. It was the hidden secret that, well, Pence is a, I don't think. I don't know what the hell to think about Mike Pence. I have no idea. Pence is like a preacher. I think he was good to get the fucking, the religious people. Super rhino, super like, yeah. Weird guy. Yeah. Odd guy. But I mean, Trump is a weird guy too. Like, who knows what's going on with Trump right now. He's an animal. Yeah. He's the most fun animal.

I love Trump conspiracy theories because people get so riled up and it's so partisan and political but within it there's all this like juicy like meat for For thinking about it's like not even conspiracy theories It's just like his history right and especially the Epstein stuff now and his history with Epstein It just gets me so interested in you'll never know the real story, but here's the thing about theories and stuff There's so many things that are so weird

That you would think, wait a minute, this can't be real. This is fake. Yep. And then it's connected to real life events in some sort of a way that you would think there's a conspiracy. Like, here's one of my favorites is Little Baron Trump's. Yeah, dude. I just got the book. It just came in the mail. Insane. Have you read it? No.

Dude, I'm going to read it. I just got it. I should buy it. I should buy the book before it gets bought out. I got it in a three-part series that has the Barron Trump one and then the last president and there's one other one. And then how about the Wernher von Braun one about a guy named Elon that takes us to Mars? Wernher von Braun, the fucking Nazi who ran Operation Paperclip and became the head of NASA. Super occultist kind of stuff in there. It's a novel.

About a guy named Elon that takes us to Mars. And even Elon saw that and he's like, is this real? Like you would think. There's no way. I mean, it's simultaneous to us kind of getting like some version of UAP disclosure that implies time travel. Yeah. Which is like, Lord knows what that is. Right. But it's just so fun to speculate because it's like.

How would we know? Yeah, how would we know? And the whole UAP thing, boy, you want to find a cauldron of bullshit. That's the cauldron. Do you know who's got the best take on it? It's Jacques Vallée.

I'm in the middle of... I've not seen a lot of his stuff. ...my third book of his right now, and it's... I'll tell you what it's called. Yeah, I should read some. He's the best. Why do you say he's the best? Like, what's your qualifier there? Because he's... I'm on this one, Confrontations, which is one of a three-part series of human interactions that have been documented with some sort of an invader from some other dimension or planet or whatever the fuck it is. He...

is the most irrational. He's the most analytical. He's the least likely to buy into horseshit, but not dismissive. That's like the critical balance, right? Yes. Well, he's the guy that they modeled the French scientist in Close Encounters of the Third Kind after. So he's been in this game since the 60s investigating these things. And time in the game counts for a

ton it counts for so much and that's my greatest weakness in a lot of ways among several is that I'm just really new to the game and so I'm constantly like catching up on shit and as stuff breaks right like like Pam Bondi for example I have no history on who Pam Bondi is because I wasn't paying attention when Pam Bondi was in Florida and so I'm having to like play catch up on what was going on right and the people that have been here for forever like the Alex Jones's of this world the Jacques Vallée's the people that like watch things break live you just get a different level of

And then you get like the David Ikes that are like,

It's fucking reptiles, dude. They're all reptiles. David, have you seen David coming after me on Twitter recently? He came after me too. Dude, it's so good. I love him. I make fun of the reptile thing. It's like, why won't you have me on? I genuinely really appreciate it. It's like a good time. But it's like, maybe they're all reptiles. I don't know, man. He went too far in time where there was no internet. Yeah. You know, he went too far. It's you get too certain of yourself, right? You think you have the answers and you just keep going. A little bit of a grift. Yeah.

with some of these folks. I'm not saying necessarily him, but it's a little bit of a grift. Well, it's an easy temptation to fall into, especially with the internet. Like every single day, people in my position, I mean, people in your position too, like we have the ability to just like, I'm going to get views and money if I drop deep down this grift. But a lot of them are not, like a lot of them when you look into them, you realize, oh, there's like literally nothing there. There's a bunch of stuff that's clickbait horseshit for sure. Or at least there's probably nothing there. Yeah.

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Yeah, I did hear that. That's like a perfect, like, oh, such a money conspiracy theory. It's not true. That's not true. It's when you look it up, you realize that, I mean, a lot of the information is kind of gone. It's hard to even tell if it's legitimate websites and information, which is already a red flag. But the ones that are still up, they just sent them into like the ocean, like they were going on cruises that happened to be in the vicinity of the island. That's totally different. Which isn't a very popular vacation destination. Yeah.

And so it becomes this, like, and that's kind of the, I think that's the fun part of the game. We thought about buying the island. Dude. When the island was for sale, we talked about it for a second. Like, let's put some of that Spotify money to use. That would be funny. I think they would have stopped you, dude. I think someone would have stopped you. 100%. Me? Yeah. I can't shut the fuck up. Because there's shit underneath that island. No doubt. Sure, dude. There's got to be something on that island that's incriminating. And also, what's in the walls?

What's in the walls of the buildings like I would get into the wiring I bring in pros. Oh, yeah, I'd be like tell me what's under the dirt I'd scan the fucking floors. Oh, yeah LIDAR the ocean floor and the surrounding miles also. He's dead so if he ever fucking hid some shit and

in there no one knows where it is yep they're gonna raise that building i assume he's dead but there was so much like so much shit around it that like i don't feel 100 sure i feel like 95 sure that he's dead 98 sure that he's dead right i wouldn't go 100 either yeah right you know what i'm saying it's like there's very few things i feel 100 autopsy you'd have to do an autopsy on jfk2 and it was not his body

Well, sort of. They did two autopsies. Well, they did the initial examination of the body was in Dallas, and then they flew it to Bethesda. The thing about that is, and this is a part of David Lifton's book, Best Evidence, which made me become a conspiracy theorist. I've never read it. It's fucking great.

And David Lifton, who is an accountant, they gave him, I forget what the project was, but it was something to do with the Warren Commission report. So this guy is like a serious bookworm. He read the entire Warren Commission, which fucking nobody does. And it's like 9,000 pages. That's a superpower. Being able to read like that. Exactly. And find contradictions over and over and over again. He's like, this is horseshit. This whole thing is horseshit.

And then he found out that Kennedy's brain was missing when it got all the way to Bethesda. He found out that the Dallas doctors said that the neck wound was an entry wound. And then the ones in Bethesda turned it into a tracheotomy hole. It was a bummer.

He got shot. You could see him go like that. Garbage all over the place. And then you could also see his face get blown off, and they published photos of him from the official autopsy where his face was visible. I have a theory, and this is just mine. Yeah, I'm really curious to hear yours. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think he got shot in the head at the same time from two different directions. That's a good theory, honestly. Because there's a bit of spray that goes forward, which is not—

Things are weird when you hit them with bullets. People have shot people in the head and the bullets come out their eye. Like it ricochets around the back of the skull. Like a .22 or something like that.

Weird things happen when you shoot things, but some things are super consistent. And one thing that's super consistent is when you hit something, it goes in the direction that you hit it, right? So back into the left. Hicks used to talk about that all the time. Back into the left. Make it fun of the fact that this Zapruder film clearly showed that it wasn't a shot from the back. But the head goes spray, too. It goes spray like this back into the left. Can we see it?

Let's see it real quick. Something I love about the JFK story is that there are so many deep experts that have really done the dig and they don't all come to the same conclusions. Here's the thing about Lifton's book. He also documents how many witnesses were murdered.

And it's astounding. That's the part that gets left off, too. All these witnesses, their cars got parked on railroad tracks, and they died of heart attacks when they were 30, and they got fucking shot in a robbery, and they committed suicide, gas, they fell asleep in their car. Man, Hillary Clinton sure got started early. Back into the left. Watch this. Watch the explosion. Yeah, because he's already hitting the neck.

You're totally right. It's like a cloud in the front, right? I mean, it could be that the top of his head exploded right there and the force drives him back. It also could... There's another possibility, and the possibility is spontaneous nerve reaction of your body shutting down, which could cause you to go back and to the left, even if you get shot in the front. But the thing is, the spray...

Or if you get shot in the back, rather. The spray looks like it's going forward. Like, we'll watch when he gets hit. See that? Yep. It's just weird. But that could be...

But the thing is, there's not a bullet hole on the other side. So that could be just the opening of the head, and it's an explosion of blood that comes out. Also, you have to realize, he's probably bleeding internally already. He got shot in the neck. So he gets shot here. There's probably blood spraying all over the place inside of his head. And then, boom, he gets shot in the front of his head. But his head clearly goes back into the left. Yep.

Like, almost instantaneously. I mean... In a way that you would imagine if someone got hit like that. Watch this again. Boom, he gets hit. Oh, good catch on that frame. And then back. And it's all gone. Like, his face is just clearly open right there. Gone, right. And it's clearly not a shot from behind. I mean, like... It's definitely not a shot from behind because there's no entry wound in the back of his head. And if you're saying that that thing hit the front of his head...

Or the side of his head from behind like that. I feel like if there was a conspiracy theorist training course, the JFK assassination would be like the perfect dry run training course to build it around. Because you have all the pieces. You have a complex conspiracy with unknown actors from intelligence agencies and organized crime and maybe multiple governments. And we don't know all that. Then you have a complex cover up.

that evolved over time. You have researchers, you have bad information being fed in from outside. You have conspiracy theorists that are taking it in directions that are corroborable. It's got all the things that you need to both learn how to dig into and learn how to watch out for. It's a lot of fun. Well, and also, people didn't really get serious about it until about 12 years after the assassination. So when Geraldo Rivera has Dick Gregory on his show, oh, what is this? It's not a real, it's restored.

Have you guys ever heard the theory that frames were taken out of the Zapruder film to make it look like the car never slowed down? That's crazy. That's bizarre. The thing is, I don't know how to trust things like AI reconstructions of videos. Let's just trust it, bro. It's fine. Boom. Oh my goodness. That is so crazy. Oh my God, that's so crazy. The theory about the driver shooting him, that's the one I've never bought, honestly.

No, no. People always say the driver turned around and shot him. I think that's one of those theories that probably the government created. Yeah. There's an open piece of evidence. To make people look stupid. There's an open piece of evidence of some kids that showed up covered in mud at a car shop that they worked at. It was like a dry day. They showed up covered in mud. And...

There's a certain guy that theorized that they were hiding in a manhole and shot up at him out of the manhole. And that the car slows down in real life. And that witnesses saw the car slow down. And that there's dropped frames from this Epruder film. And it's like, these are these kind of theories where it's like, how do you dig into that and like...

prove that and the answer is you have to get to primary sources you have to get to like is there a police report for that kid showing up like is there is that location real like can you corroborate any of this right and the unfortunate truth is you could if you could fucking see the files that our government was hiding from us

Right. Theoretically, I guess. They're supposed to be released soon. Have some patience. Dude, they're releasing tomorrow, Joe. Can you? Is that real? No. It's like every day is Christmas. Yeah, for real. Can you Google David Lifton witnesses of the JFK assassination odds?

Because he did some sort of a calculation of the odds of all these people dying the way they died. Yeah, dude. And it's millions to one. It's nuts. That's a big part of what I do is, how likely is it that this is a coincidence? Is it even possible? Right. That one's very unlikely, which means they were killing witnesses. Someone was killing witnesses. I think there was people shooting from the back and the front. I think Lee Harvey Oswald, people want to say it's one or zero. I think Lee Harvey Oswald was in on it.

I think Lee Harvey Oswald probably didn't shoot the president though.

But he might have. He might have hit him in the back because there was a shot in the back, too. You know, the whole reason why they had to call this a tracheotomy is the same reason why they had to come up with a single bullet theory. Exactly. Yeah. So you're a deep hitter. Because you've got to explain it. Well, I'm not. Do you know about the ricochet underneath the overpass? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm deep enough to know the basics, but there's so many layers, and you have to read the books. You have to watch the films. You have to, like, see the interviews. You've got to talk to Oliver Stone. Exactly. Oliver Stone just goes on.

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Because you've actually talked to these people. Oliver Stone's the best. Because he's been studying this for fucking ever. And he can tell you exactly what's going on with Dulles. And he's not just been studying it forever. He's been studying the actual primary source documents themselves. And reading the real archives that are released. And then there's a wild connection between Jolly West and Jack Ruby. Oh, yeah. Jolly West is crazy. Have you read Chaos yet? Yeah.

Yes. Dude. So I didn't know about Jolly until I read Chaos. And then I started digging it because I knew about MKUltra. I'm like, I have been learning about MKUltra when I was a kid, like doing psychedelics. But I didn't really understand anything about that history or anything around the CIA back then. They ran the Hate Ashbury Free Clinic. Oh, yeah. And they closed it down after Chaos came out. No way. Yes way. So just recently, huh? The entire time they had been running. Wow.

This clinic. It's not like they were running the clinic and they said, you know what? Let's not run the clinic anymore. Let's just give it to regular doctors. 70s are over. It's over. The peace and war bullshit or peace and love bullshit, that's over. Yeah, one of the conspiracy theories that's out this week. Yes, it's coming out this week.

Really? This week? Tom O'Neill is my friend Greg's longtime friend and former neighbor. Well, I think they're still neighbors. But they were neighbors in New York, and then they were neighbors in California. That's a pretty cool neighbor. Yeah, very cool neighbor. But this guy's been working on this one fucking story for 20 years. You imagine just pulling your hair out, just going crazy for 20 years.

20 years? No, I'm a generalist and I rely on people like that because I could never stay with something for that long. No, he could have written many other books on the exact same subject. He can keep going. Like part two more I know, part three more I know. He could have written a book about each of those sketchy dudes that he had questions about. Right. Each of those CIA guys, each of those weird doctors. Well, each of those times. There's whole rabbit holes. How about each time that Manson got away with committing crimes? Oh, yeah.

And the girls, too. Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's above our pay grade. So they were paying people to do this. They were giving the Manson family LSD and money. They were allowing them to commit crimes. And the whole idea was just to change the idea what people thought of as hippies and to stop the anti-war movement.

And also to see what they can get away with, what they can do with this acid. I suspect they're, I mean, to me, the big question is that seems like the first, like, for sure that's going on, right? Yeah. Is to co-opt the hippie, I mean, first, the hippie movement probably was to co-opt the anti-war movement that was pretty buttoned up. Yes. Like, I suspect that LSD did not just escape the lab. I suspect they were, like, quick,

turn all these kids into crazy hippies. Like, try this out, try this out, try this out. Really? Yeah, so check this out. Have you read Strange Scenes Inside Laurel Canyon? I started to read it. I have not finished it. So, I mean, even just the first chapter, right? So if you take that book's premise, it's basically that before the hippie movement, there was a very powerful organized anti-war movement led by a bunch of Quakers, a bunch of black activists, a bunch of, like my dad was one of them. And it was not this hippie fringe thing. It was a very powerful anti-Vietnam protest.

And the moment that LSD gets introduced, it becomes all peace and love. And he points out in that book how all of these people like Frank Zappa, like lead members of the doors, people organize the Monterey Pop Festival over and over and over. Like he probably has two to three dozen examples specifically goes deep into. They all just happen to move from wherever they are all over the world to

into this area in LA that is not a hotbed for music. And they all just start making music about peace and love and doing LSD. And all of them have parents that are from special forces, intelligence operations, Pentagon, like some of the musicians themselves have...

have backgrounds that look exactly like CIA operatives that were doing like revolutions in Cuba and like who is specific um like the lead singer of the birth of the doors Jim Morrison for example Frank Zappa for so Frank Zappa's one where his dad and his mom were both Frank Zappa's dad worked at the base that is that was like the chemical weapons like

where they did their chemical weapons research. His dad was a chemical weapons specialist in like top secret clearances, which is basically like when you read about what his dad was, it sounds a lot like what MK ultra would be. It sounds a lot like what,

You would like drug drug experiments and chemical weapons is drugs. Well chemical is the wrong word psychological operations But it's right there like it's on his Wikipedia page It's not hard to find these things what what that guy did that I forget who wrote the book But what he did was not like find uncovered evidence that had never been uncovered He just looked at all these different people whose histories were very public, but he put it all together and realized like that's

That's a lot of people that all moved to this one place and all started producing music that was like all within this one thing. Like Jim Morrison, his dad was the lead commander of the boat that was in the Gulf of Tonkin that started the Vietnam War. That's like kind of a weird coincidence. Yeah. And you could definitely make the explanation that kids often rebel against their parents. Right. Kids often step out of line and are like, fuck the old way. Right, right. But a lot of them were...

Ex-military like directly X suits and ex CIA was Morrison an ex-military. No Morrison I don't believe he was why do you think that he looks like a CIA operative then? No, no, not Morrison It's I was saying Frank's that it's he said lead singer the doors to know that was just me giving examples the guy specifically that he said that had the history that was That looked he was doing what looked like color revolutions in Cuba or

Um, because I'm not super familiar with the music of that time, I might forget what band he was in. It might've been the Mamas and the Papas. There was a couple of guys in the Mamas and Papas that he did deep dives in. But here's the question. You can't, you can't like fake talent. You know what I'm saying? Well, a lot of them didn't write their own songs. Yeah. And I mean like, you can't fake talent. Like look at Diddy, bro. Jim Morrison was fucking good. Oh no, Jim. Yeah. Some of them were great. Jim Morrison was fucking good. Some of them were great. Frank Zappa was great. Crazy great. 100%. But this is the thing. It's like, you can't like...

100%. I don't think... But here's the thing. They could push people with talent that they also could use to further their agenda and make those people more popular than they would be organically and put a lot of emphasis behind it. The reason why this tracks...

is because what Nixon did. So with the sweeping psychedelic act of 1970, they passed this, they made mushrooms and all these different things illegal so that they could go after the civil rights activists and the anti-war activists.

And the Black Panthers. They shut them all down. They shut them all down. Go after them for having these things that were societal disruptors. It also makes fertile ground for COINTELPRO. When you have things like drugs and drug culture, like fertile ground for COINTELPRO. Well, this is the big thing about Jolly West and Manson is that Jolly West...

allegedly taught Manson how to use psychedelics and manipulate people and oftentimes when Manson was with the family apparently he pretended to take LSD and they all took it and then he would need to like hypnotism speeches yeah it really does look like and the thing is that I respect Tom O'Neill so much because he didn't try to claim things he couldn't prove right but he just put it all out there and is like this is what I'm seeing and say think what you think and it looks to me like

Like you're saying that Manson was either directly trained to practice these things and carry them out or he was sort of like a patsy in the operation that they kind of like gave him the setting within which to just go along his megalomaniacal impulses and just kind of kept tabs on him and kept him safe and just kept him going. I think it's I think he wasn't a part of it. I think because of how effective he was. They visited him in prison.

Oh, yeah. This is why I think he's a part of it. I think they've recognized in prison, like, look, you got two choices. You could be in jail for the rest of your fucking life or we can work for you. We think you're brilliant. We think you're an amazing mind of untapped talent. And, you know, you pray to this narcissist ego and you start telling him things. And the next thing you know, he's out there in the street working for you like a little hoe. It's crazy how many people that wind up in these weird positions came out of like,

you were in prison then you got released or you were in like trouble and then you got and the girls like the girls it's crazy those girls like some of them had committed some minor crimes but a lot of them were just regular people

And then suddenly they become like absolute murderers, like dark, dark murderers. Those were gross. Well, I think mind control is real, right? 100%. And I think hypnosis is real. Acid is real. And then the techniques that they've developed over decades of fucking with people with these drugs, they know what to do. Yep.

I mean, the dark thing that I mean, we don't need to go into it because it's real dark. But the I think that when you study the MKUltra files and this is where there's a lot of conspiracy theories that are hard to prove. There's a bunch of witness victim testimony, but it's hard to prove is the Monarch programs are an alleged program that never got disclosed. And that's all the programs that are hidden behind child sexual abuse being a part of mind control, because a lot of the drugs like.

they can break people's minds and they can be involved in mind control. But a lot of those papers talk about dissociative identity disorder as like the holy grail of that Manchurian candidate concept. And it makes a lot of sense if you know what

Just how dissociative identity disorder works right and that is most commonly associated with dark grim childhood sexual abuse And then you get all these victim testimonies hundreds and hundreds of people these days talking about how they are Were a part of these programs like people that were on Epstein's Island that claimed to have been victimized as children and and put subjected to mind control experiments paired with childhood sexual abuse and

It's just so hard to believe that people are that evil, but they have been throughout history. This is why it's weird. It's like we'll look back on the Victorian era or we'll look back on the, you know, the

the man-boy love of the Socrates era. We'll go, that's just back then. We've evolved now. We're more cultured. We don't do that anymore. But when they've identified specific aspects of traumatic past that they can use these particular victims of trauma, of childhood trauma, and take them and turn them into weapons, that's so wild. But that's...

That is an asset, right? If you got someone who's so fucking crazy, you could talk to them and get them to do things and give them acid and get them to Sir Hanser on levels or whatever the fuck they did to Jack Ruby.

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Yeah, I mean... You get people to do things. Break Jack Ruby's mind in an instant, like... In jail, yeah. And the craziest thing is that we've been living in a world where for all of our history until the internet, and really until recent internet history, they could do those things and just not have anyone report on it. Exactly. And so no one would ever even know. And I think that there's this feeling that the world is so dark right now because we're learning everything. Exactly. And I actually take the opposite view. I think that the light is being shown. And

The world is super dark. There's all kinds of crazy, horrible people, but there's all kinds of crazy good people, everything in between. Yeah. And by you have to shine the light on it all before you can fix it. Absolutely. Right. And I think that's one of the more fascinating things about the fact that this is a weird time for uncovering federal corruption. Right. And.

I think they're in real trouble because I don't think they can use their phones. I don't think they can do the things that they used to be able to do. That's a good point. And I don't think they're united. I hadn't thought about that. This is what I think. They're definitely not united. Right. 100%. There's rats in that ship. Oh, yeah. There's rats in that ship. Yeah.

I think everybody's scared and everybody's worried that people wearing camera buttons. And so it is the era of secret cameras, too. And they're all selfish fucks. So they're all for themselves. So they probably demonstrated that all throughout these relationships they've had with other people. So nobody trusts anybody. Yeah. I mean, that's the nature of politics. And you can't use your phone. Nope.

You can't use your email. You can't, you probably can't even talk with Alexa in the house. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I'm at the point where I'm starting to get like, I'm not literally that paranoid, but there are, I've had some conversations in terms of like people that want to leak a story, which I totally, I'd normally just avoid because I don't want to touch it.

But every now and then I'm like, let's go on a walk because I don't want to hear what you have to say around any of this shit because I know it's being recorded. I know it can be listened to. Do you have a crazy phone or do you use your iPhone? No, it's just an iPhone. Yeah. I'm aspiring to get one of those like one of the Eric Prince phones or something like that. That's when you've reached the next level of conspiracy when you get a de-Googled phone that doesn't have 5G. You only use four. Yeah. But the way I look at it is so I intentionally do all of my stuff. I basically do open source stuff.

Investigations I don't try to like break news stories right because it's way safer and it's way more interesting and I don't my goal is not to like To like know everything or to be some great journalist My goal is to inspire everybody out like to inspire the world to think a little more and to be more critical and to look it up for yourself well, you're also serving a function like a service for people because what you're doing is you are Taking all the time to find all this open stores and then putting it out there Yeah, and you really thorough about it. You say this is what I know Yeah

Yeah. You've also done shit wrong all the time. You start doing this thing with your hand above your head. People steal that now. Yeah. Have you noticed that? Well, it's because TikTok's green screen. It's your hand. The way you do it though with your hand. One finger gets taken away. TikTok will delete one finger if I'm pointing with one finger. Why? Because it's a green screen app. And so I'm like using the camera and it's got in my camera, it's putting the thing behind me, but it's cutting out.

me. And if I only use one finger, it cuts my whole hand away. So I started doing this. Why is it... Just because the green screen, when it's trying to AI analyze what is a body and what is the background, it'll take away my hand as though it's the background. Oh, how weird. So you started pointing out things like this. I haven't gone all the way to doing this at the screen yet, but...

But I see a lot of people that are doing exactly your way. So that's why they're doing it. I mean, to be fair, I've had a level of success that is unprecedented. And people call me a controlled opposition because of it. And it's like, whatever, dude. Like, if I was in all of their seats, I would probably be like, where did this dude come from? But at a certain point, it's like an intense level of suspicion. You're talking to captain controlled opposition over here. I know, dude. People think that I'm controlled opposition. Yeah.

That whole term is funny because there's got to be real controlled opposition. That's why it's a term. It's the info war, dude. It's crazy out here. It's a valid strategy. Yep. But I think you could figure it out after a while. Yeah, and for me it's really interesting because –

and you know this too, you've been in this game for forever, is when you actually get to meet people in real life, you learn things about them, you get that vibe of them. It's not impenetrable. You can be fooled. But like, how much can you fool? And can you fool all your employees all the time? Like Alex Jones is a great example. People call him controlled opposite. Like he's bought by the Jews. He's bought by the commies. He's bought by the,

And it's like, cool. But I know all of his staff and I've hung out with them. And like, you've known him over years and years. Like, is he faking his entire life? Like, I've been on his show. I've seen what he was doing. The exact same thing when no one was listening. Exactly. He was on the public radio. Yeah. Alex has been saying he's been talking about this stuff since the 90s. And I've known him since 90s.

I guess I met him in 99. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I learned the other day that he started InfoWars, like he officially founded InfoWars, like when I was two years old or something like that. It blew my brain. It was like, what? The first video of his that really woke me up was the video he did on the World Trade Organization protests in Seattle. Yeah. When he showed that there was these groups of masked men who dressed in military uniforms with military issue shoes.

They all had the same shit on and they all ran around in this peaceful protest for the World Trade Organization and started smashing things and lighting things on fire and creating chaos, which allowed the police to then move in. Then these people all hold up in one house. They negotiate with the police and they were all released.

Weird. Yeah. Almost sounds like a few events of the last couple years, you know? Yeah. Well, it sounds like Patriot Front, which just went under. They went under the day after. For real? Yeah, you didn't know? After USAID was cut? No, right after Cash Patel gets in. Okay. Cash Patel. Let's go. Pull that up. Pull that up. Let's go. Because there's a video of Patriot Front and me and Matt Taibbi, I go, they're feds. I go, it's me yelling, where's the fat?

people. They're all wearing the same uniform. One guy's got a fucking drum. Get the fuck out of here. These are feds. These are feds. The day after Cash Patel gets in, they disband. Funny how that... I'm really interested in looking for... Right now, with all these new people coming in, Cash and Pam and all the picks, RFK, I'm really enjoying the process of just trying to watch their actions and trying to figure out who's doing what and how much are they going to play to the money and play to the people and

And it's just such a fascinating exercise in journalism of where do you kind of and how much leeway do you give them? How much grace do you give them? Especially with the Epstein blackmail hanging as a cloud over the entire federal government. I don't think that any of those three are blackmailed, but I don't feel confident that I know that they're not. Let's look at it. Here's a possibility other than blackmail. Negotiation.

Well, that's always a factor. But instead of blackmail, if you are a government and you have information on someone who is an asset...

or someone who's very wealthy, and this person is like, hey, motherfucker, what are you doing? You're at 26 times? How about you shut the fuck up from here out. No more Trump's Hitler. Cut it out. Well, that's the definition of blackmail. How about you say that we did a good job every now and again? Give us a little credit. Let's work something out here. It's not necessarily blackmail as much as it's negotiation. I would argue that's indistinguishable. Blackmail is a good thing.

Right. Unless you're getting money to like, you know, I know. No, blackmail is just I know something that you don't want out.

And any level of threatening that it'll get out or you know, okay, but what if it goes the other way? What if the wealthy person contacts them and says listen I can make things very good for you. I can do this I can do that if I go to jail, this is not helping anybody. Oh a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah reverse Yeah, I think that's so that's bribery I guess kind of it's just kind of that's bright. That's deal-making But I think that a lot of Epstein's targets were willing and

I think that a lot of them, because I think that we're talking, it's not just Jeffrey Epstein, it's organized crime as a network. Like he's just an employee of organized crime. Right. And I think that a lot of those people are basically saying, yeah, I want into the club.

Because if you are like a Reid Hoffman or allegedly if you're one of those guys and you want more Contracts like you know our deals like allegedly and like let's be clear just because I say something on Joe's podcast does not mean that Joe fucking agrees with me CNN. Thank you I'm a crazy fucker and I got all kinds of theories about Epstein But like I think that a lot of them were willing because I think a lot of them are I mean if you're sick enough to rape a child or

like on Jeffrey Epstein's Island, you're sick enough to want into that club. Well, for sure, throughout history, there have been pedophiles. That's a fact.

For sure, some pedophiles get to prominent positions of power. That's a fact, right? And the traits that do the same. Jimmy Savile in fucking England. That should put it out to bed for anybody. Prince Andrew. Bill Gates. Sandusky. Allegedly. I don't know about him. I never heard that. But Sandusky I've heard. You never heard about Bill Gates? I didn't know he was into kids. Oh, dude. I mean, he's one of Epstein's closest confidants. Here's the thing about the Epstein thing.

weren't they a lot, were they all underage? Were some of them? Not at all. No, it's very complex. Right. So some of them were in their twenties, like one girl who was complaining or I shouldn't say complaining. That's very mild. One girl who, uh, alleging that she was, uh, she was 20 at the time she was saying. Yeah. So,

Just because someone has been to the island and has been compromised, right, doesn't necessarily mean that they've been compromised with underage people. But I think there's a specific group that wants underage people. Oh, 100%. Right. And the reason why I say this is not a conspiracy theory.

It has been that way throughout history. All of history. There are many, many, many conspiracies that have been uncovered and criminal investigations have found that people were trafficking children. It's been done. So this is not like vampires. No, no. We're not talking about werewolves. Child trafficking, like child trafficking rings get exposed and brought down around the world relatively frequently, like at least once a year, but they usually don't make big news because they're usually not like

We know there are pedophiles. That's a real thing. We know there are psychos who get very wealthy and want specific things. Look, there's people that drink rhino horn tea. Exactly. Why do they drink rhino horn tea? Because the rhino is so endangered. It's so gangster.

To have rhino warm. It's just the elite experience. Exactly. The elite experience. And what you're talking about is this, it's such an important concept is that some people, like if you wanted to pay for an underage prostitute, people can, you can pay for that. There are people, there are women that would be prostitutes underage.

The people that we're talking about in the Epstein files that wanted underage girls specifically because they weren't all underage. Some of them wanted overage girls. Some of them were just scientists. They weren't all compromised. But the ones that wanted underage girls, they specifically want what they couldn't have. Right.

because if you wanted sex that you're allowed to have, you just wanted a young girl, you could just go pay for that. What Epstein was doing is he was recruiting girls that were from like American families and kind of tricking them and coercing them. Like they wanted a girl that they wanted the experience of coercing. Some of these people, not all of them want the experience of I'm, I am doing this to a girl that I am coercing. I'm, I am manipulating or I'm just straight up being physically violent too, to get this thing.

Because if you wanted a willing 16 year old those do exist and the thing about these really wealthy High-profile people and you know Eric Weinstein was highlighting this to me once he was saying smart day Very smart. Yeah, and he wasn't making any accusations at all, but he was just talking overall and

He goes, I think there are people out there that can facilitate experiences for discrete clients. And it's very valuable. Like, look at the guy who gave Epstein that house in Manhattan. He gave him. You mean Leslie Wexner? Yeah, the guy from Victoria's Secret. Oh, dude. He gave him.

A $60 million mansion. He did way more than that. He signed his entire power of attorney to him. You're so cool. I'm going to give you a house. No, he gave him the keys to the entire castle of all of Victoria's Secret and Abercrombie and Fitch and all of L Brands. When you find out that people who worked at Nickelodeon are pedophiles, you go, oh.

Foot fetishist, no less. Right. If you're going to be a pedophile, wouldn't you go be around kids, like if you could be, and sneak around? Okay, wouldn't you think that Sacha Baron Cohen thought he had exposed pedophile ring while filming Who Is America? Oh, that's right. That's right. I forgot about that. Yeah, my concierge said they can do something. We can help you. Yeah. Yeah, things happen out in, like, it's crazy.

It's kind of crazy. Do you remember Andrew Breitbart got killed? I do remember that. And he was exposing... He had a heart attack. Exactly. He was exposing Acorn because... So how...

Oh man, I'm totally blanking on our boy these days that does all the... O'Keefe? James O'Keefe? You know that James O'Keefe got his start with Breitbart on that story exposing ACORN, and what they did is they sent James O'Keefe and this other female reporter into ACORN. And O'Keefe pretended to be a pimp. Well, they asked them for help setting up an underage sex trafficking ring. And the people at ACORN... I didn't know it was underage. Yeah, yeah. They wanted help setting up an underage sex trafficking ring using children from Guatemala. Wow.

Or from Central America. Did they say that in the meeting? Yeah, yeah. That was what was on tape. What? Yeah. It blew my mind when I read it. I was like, what are we talking about right now? Because I didn't know that history because I wasn't paying attention back then.

And that is the story is that he went in and asked for help setting up a under. I don't think he was like, I don't think he was probably using the words like five-year-olds, 10-year-olds. I assume that he was like implying like 16-year-olds, but I don't know. But that's the story. How did he phrase it? I don't know. It's not, you can't, I mean, I can't find those videos anymore. I've looked. Really? I'm sure they're somewhere. And I'm sure that James O'Keefe could tell the story. What happened with him and Project Veritas? I don't know.

I have no idea. And it's a whole drama fest. And I try to stay, I mean, I usually try to stay out of the drama in the modern industry because it's like, it'll just waste your time. The conspiracy drama. There's drama inside the drama industry. There's drama in every industry, dude. There's drama in the drama class.

But yeah, he went in and asked for help setting up this ring, and they allegedly said, yeah, here's how you do it. We'll help you, we'll help you, we'll help you. And that's what the case they brought against Acorn was before Andrew Breitbart mysteriously died. And then the coroner that did his autopsy mysteriously died. It's like...

such a that was such a weird one to stumble upon because I didn't know I was about to stumble upon it yeah and people can look I mean everyone should look up anything that I say always people should always just look it up and just start typing things in that I'm saying and see if what if you can figure out what you think because I am not an expert I'm just a dude that like is looking things up and I try to be really thorough but like wasn't Breitbart was it Breitbart or Drudge that was the first victim of these coordinated anti-advertising campaigns yeah

I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. Oh, like where advertisers all pull out to try to tank you? Yes, exactly. Like what they tried to do to Elon? Exactly. I don't know. They do it strategically. I think it was done to both, probably, but I don't know. But I think the first one, the first one that they did it on, I think it was Breitbart. I think Breitbart was on this super rapid upward trajectory, and they just completely tanked the revenue. Was it Breitbart or was it, do you remember, Jamie? Who was talking to us about that the other day? Was it Chase Hughes? Yeah.

Who was it? It might have been... It is interesting how you can watch out over history. The more history you learn, the more you get to see where certain strategies, like kind of like deep state strategies, so to speak, or intelligence agency strategies get invented and then they start using them. Might have been Mike Benz.

That would be a Mike Benz thing to say for sure. It sounds like Mike Benz. He knows his shit. Yeah, he knows a lot of shit. Okay, Breitbart Plus lost 90% of its advertisers in two months. That's what it is. Yeah. Who's still there? So this is the Washington Post making it seem like this is a normal thing.

Oh, look, they lost all their advertising. Media framed us. People pulled out because they're full of shit. It's just another frame game. No, they all coordinated to try to boycott them and kill them. It's so crazy to have all of these tactics exposed in plain view now, and they still keep trying them. Did you see the thing that's going around today of the 22 different mainstream news sites all parroting the exact same thing? Well, not just that. All the Congress people.

Yeah. Do you see that? They're all saying the exact same thing. Yeah, I guess it's Congress people, not news anchors. It's just that now everyone is a... It's fucking Pelosi and Schumer and all these different people. There's 12 of them now that they've got saying the exact same script. Oh, it's more than 12. Alex Jones had a full 22 on his show, so they kept adding to it. At first, it was two of them.

early in the morning. They're so dumb. They all read the same script. They're so dumb. But they use a different tone of voice. But they give their own spin on it because they're performers. It's wild. I've got to have my own creative control. Yeah. But then you get into the people that are like, the whole world's a stage. Trust the plan. Q's in control. And it's like, whoa, dude, calm down. Yeah, you've gone too far. Well, then when you see that documentary on Q, you realize what kind of people you're dealing with.

with which documentary was the one that had the really cool HBO one yeah but I don't like trust a documentary like that either because like HBO is like that's the definition of mainstream media so I try to stay somewhere in the middle of that that is true but I think HBO let this guy uncover this story accurately I think

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And it shows all the people that were involved in it, and it kind of highlights a guy who seems to be Q, who is like kind of an internet shit poster, fucking around and...

When 4chan was in its heyday back when all that shit was going down, it's ripe for that kind of nonsense. Oh, yeah. Perfect, perfect fertile ground for that kind of controlled reverse opposition, whatever bullshit psyops. And that's where, for me, the bottom line is can I corroborate it with primary sources? And Q is the definition of no. Of course I can't. It's like, what is it, a time traveler that's coming back that's telling us how to save the world or something? I don't understand. Do you think stuff like Pizzagate...

Like when they had that guy come in and fire up that shot, I felt like that was a great way to put a halt to all the looking into the Podesta emails. That's exactly what that was. Because then all of a sudden it's a kook thing. Now it's a crazy person and a dangerous person because he's got a gun. You're causing dangerous people to take their guns. Just like with the vaccines. It's like you're... They always have to make it dangerous, right? Yeah. It's dangerous to say...

that this might have side effects, right? Because if you read those emails, those emails are bananas. And they're not explained. They're talking about young kids who are going to be coming to a party to have fun. They'll be in the pool and they will be there for sure. $65,000 worth of hot dogs flown from Chicago for a White House party? The whole thing is like very weird. Did you ever see the archived Instagram post from James Oliphantis' Instagram?

No. Because that's a dark place. So there's so many layers to Pizzagate that they tried to cover up intentionally for very good reason. Well, how about the logos? Well, the thing is I avoid, and the way I've talked about it, I've avoided all the symbols and logos and even some of the pizza stuff because I think there's so much more ripe, clear evidence that is way more powerful.

And James Alfonso's Instagram account is a great example where... Can you find it online? So you cannot find it on Instagram anymore. It's only been archived onto other sites, which is kind of sketchy because it's like, how do I know you're not adding photos and stuff? So you kind of have to dig and dig and dig and cross-reference over and over and over to make sure that you're getting sort of like...

the consensus because everyone watched as it happened. So people like Liz Croak and people like Alex Jones, like they saw these things come out and that you can find plenty of different archives of all of James Alphonse's Instagram posts. And there are things like photos of children with their arms taped to tables. And the caption is looks like a fun time. And then people that have always been commenting on his posts, like the people that are interacting with his posts all the time have even weirder Instagrams where it's like kill room. And there's a

coffin that's open and things like that. There's like a photo of like a walk-in freezer and it's like, man, looks like you've been having a fun weekend. Things like that that are just super dark and a bunch of babies and a bunch of symbolism, a bunch of children. And it's all photos on their Instagram in plain daylight. And they all got scrubbed, obviously. And that's not to mention Podesta's art collection and the Marina Abramovich connections. It goes on and on and on and on and on.

Yeah. And we're talking about the Clintons with the Haiti scandals, with the cocaine in Arkansas. It's like the thing is that we sound crazy. I sound crazy to someone that doesn't do their own research because you just start. There's so many layers of like crazy shit that's happened with some of these people. Yeah. That if you don't know the history of a person like Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton.

It's really easy to think, oh, that's just so insane that you would think that they would be involved in it. And first of all, they frame it in the articles about Pizzagate. They say Hillary Clinton was the mastermind of a global pedophile sex trafficking ring, all headquartered in this pizza shop, which is not what anyone ever claimed. Right. So as soon as you can discredit that, you discredit the whole thing. Classic frame job, which Nancy Pelosi explains very well, where you...

make a false claim and you say that's what they're saying and then you discredit the false claim. But if you really learn the history of the Clinton family, just as one example, um, Bill- Did you ever read The Strange Death of Vince Foster? No. But I know a little bit about the Foster situation and a couple of those weird deaths earlier on. I read that book. I should read that. Back in the Dizzee. And that's what got me into, uh, wondering about the Clintons. Because that guy died-

They found his body where there was less blood at the scene that was missing from his body and the gun was still in his hand I was actually just reading about that specific murder in Whitney Webb's books like two nights ago because she goes over that too because it's a huge question mark the gun was in his hand the guns never in your and his family claimed that that wasn't the right gun he He was he had a black gun and his family's like no he owned a silver gun all these weird things They never found the bullet

Like all sorts of things that just don't add up. And that was right after Epstein had first walked into Bill Clinton's life. That was between White House visit number one and White House visit number two, while Epstein was funding the refurbishing of the entire West Wing of the White House. I'm glad you brought up Epstein because there was a point that I was going to make earlier that I forgot. The Epstein situation is identical to the Manson situation. You think so? Yeah. Explain what you mean. This is why. I mean, I think you don't mean that literally. I think you mean that in a more metaphorical way. I mean the structure.

The structure of how you would put it, like if you were going to use an intelligence asset to do something evil, to do something where you can get dirt on people or compromise people or accomplish an objective, you would get someone who's already fucked up.

Oh, 100%. And then you get that fucked up person and you help them, you know, run this cult or you help them get girls. But you intentionally keep them separate. You're not hiring them. They don't work for you. Right. They're a private entity.

It's like layers of obfuscation. Like if he wasn't personally a pervert, it wouldn't work. Oh, not a chance. No. Like think about like the guy gets arrested for having sex with underage girls or getting them to do happy endings or whatever, wherever he did. So he gets arrested. And then the real weird thing is that he just gets out and gets like house arrest. Yep. And he gets like a little slap on the wrist and then he's back in action with all these rich people again. Yeah.

Yep. Like really rich, influential people like Bill Gates is hanging out with him after he's already been arrested and convicted. Like that's bananas. But to your point about them. But he's got to already be fucked up. He can't be like a straight edge, regular guy with a family and children that is just evil. No, you got to have him in on the thing. So if you got a guy you know is already a freak.

You know he's already a nut and he's already like doing blow and fucking hookers all the time and maybe he's been caught with a few underage girls. Well, when you study where he came from and how he got plucked from the Dalton school and then got put into Bear Stearns and they got put through Bear Stearns and then got put into money management. It was teaching at one point. It was teaching at the Dalton school and then he was a

a banker at Bear Stearns, which he conveniently left when this big scandal broke that implicated him and the director, Goldstein, that had hired him and had been helping him up. And then he left and kind of took the fall and took the dirt with him. And then he went into the arms running businesses, which is where he met Maxwell, Daddy Maxwell, not daughter Maxwell, and Ananka Shoghi and...

lease and all these other arms traffickers. And that's where he got into those. So it's like you walk slowly into these worlds. And as they're doing that, I'm imagining they're taking tabs on of like, what kind of guy is this and what's he into? And he's working with arms traffickers. And some of those arms traffickers were famous for blackmail, like Adnan Khashoggi. He was famous for having his yacht filled up with cameras and given his arms deals to

everything they could ever want while he's selling weapons to them. And he's got his whole yacht wired up with cameras. Trump later bought that yacht, which is super interesting. Do you know about that? So Trump can check this out. And I'm not claiming that Trump is in on everything. It's a very complex thing here, but Trump's history is pretty weird. He bought the Plaza hotel, which is where the blue suite parties that blackmailed J Edgar Hoover happened. You remember, do you know about those? Oh, what year was that? Oh dude. So J Edgar Hoover, the founder of the FBI, uh,

This is where I thought I was starting this fucking job to talk about GameStop and to talk about like the financial markets and shit And then I realized how important intelligence agencies and organized crime are to how the world works And I just got deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into like I don't want to miss out on some of the Epstein stuff Oh, we come back to that. Well, we'll get there. This is all can I talk to that? I could talk about the Epstein stuff for fucking days and start all kinds of trouble for your podcast and shit but

Well, I think that trouble's supposed to be coming out publicly. I don't think it's going to. Wasn't there, so the FBI in New York guy had to step down, right? Yeah. They were saying they're withholding files. Yeah. So the Pam Bondi's office said that they just got thousands of files. Allegedly. Yeah. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. I've been saying that I'm like Charlie Brown with Lucy in the football. Yeah. You know, when she pulls the football away every time he thinks he's going to get to kick it and he goes falling on his ass. Yeah.

That's how it feels. You haven't read Whitney Webb's books, have you? No. You really should. I've watched a lot of her stuff online, though. So the thing about her stuff online is that she comes off as way more unhinged. And she's very smart. She's very smart. And she's on it. But she's now very concerned, rightly so, about the sort of technocratic nature of what might be to come.

But her research on Jeffrey Epstein is looking backwards at the history of organized crime, the history of Epstein. And it paints a very like we know very well who he worked for and we know who he was associated with. She has primary sources with pages of sources cited about who put him where, who he interacted with, who said what about him, who claimed what about his life. And it's like it's two full books and it's very well sourced with primary sources cited all the way throughout.

And so it's like, we don't actually really need the Epstein files to know what was going on. They might, they'll hopefully include a lot of new details. But don't we need it for rock solid proof? Sort of. Don't we need the... So take Leslie Wexner that we were talking about earlier. No, we already have the flight logs. Do we have all of them? Unredacted.

Really? All of them? Well, theoretically. The ones we know of. And do we have flight logs with destinations? Yeah. So we know who went to the island. Oh, yeah. They're all there, and you can read them online. They're on archive.org, as well as other places. But Leslie Wexner is a great example here.

Leslie Wexner owns Victoria's Secret and L Brands, right? He's the bank that bankrolled Jeffrey Epstein. And I was saying earlier that he signed the power of attorney over to Jeffrey Epstein so that Jeffrey Epstein was able to sell his assets, manage his assets, buy on his behalf. He could sell Victoria's Secret without Leslie Wexner in the room or even his knowledge if he wanted to, because that's the level of power of attorney that he signed over to Jeffrey Epstein when he was his money manager.

And the reason why you do that is so that you can claim that you don't know about his operation. He was just my money manager. I didn't know he was running this thing because I wasn't involved in any of those transactions.

But what that meant is that Leslie Wexner damn well knew. We could go into the mega group and we could go into his connections to Charles Bronfman, all these other things. But I was saying about the Victoria's Secrets, if you're a pedophile, you want to work with kids. If you're a freak, what do you do? You get in the underwear business. That's how they were recruiting. They were recruiting from the Victoria's Secret modeling and Jeffrey Epstein was claiming that he was a rep, but

Do you know about the CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch that went down for running a sex trafficking ring? Yeah. So he was Leslie Wexner's guy. When Leslie Wexner, he bought Abercrombie & Fitch in like 1990, maybe 91, 89.

And then one of the first things he did was he put that dude into position as CEO. That was Leslie Wexner's dude. And he becomes the CEO and he's gay and he likes really hot young male models. And he started running a male sex trafficking ring out of Abercrombie and Fitch. So Leslie Wexner, this...

Dude who is a self-proclaimed possessed by a demon? Yeah, yeah Whitney has a whole chapter where she goes into this article that was done by a mainstream news source like 10 20 years ago where they're interviewing Leslie Wexner and asking about how he came to power and what's a secret it's called his D book dy buk and you can read about this on Wikipedia as well and

He describes in his own words that he's possessed by a debuk, which is like a Yiddish word for an evil demon that drives him for more and more and more and more. It's in his own words. Is this...

Is he being hyperbolic? A little bit. Is he joking around? Like, oh, I'm possessed by a demon that just wants more and more. I just want to be successful. No, I mean, I wasn't in the room, but I assume based upon the wording and how it's put, I assume it's like... Let's find it. We'll find it. I want to read that. It's like a billionaire. I mean, it's in the text. It's directly quoted in the text in One Nation Under Blackmail, actually, which is in that backpack. Cool.

One Nation Under Blackmail? One Nation Under Blackmail by Whitney Webb. Highly recommend, but it's super dense. It's a hard read. I've read it three times now, and I still am taking notes and trying to look things up to understand it because she's just so researched. And it's things like this, where she's gone back to the original article where they were interviewing him, and he's just like a CEO. So they're just asking him, what's your secret to success? And he's like, I'm possessed by, I have a drive for more. And he chose the word de-book.

book which is a Yiddish word so this is from New York magazine interview that's exactly the source he says and now perhaps it's time to reintroduce Leslie Wexner's d-book the demon that always wakes up in the morning with Wexner and tweaks and pulls at him when he was a boy his father called it tumble and

A churning. So he feels molten and unformed, pricked by the spiritual pins and needles. He met this demon again when he was 40 and already worth half a billion. When he climbed the mountain in front of the house in Vail and almost froze to death and decided to change his life. This demon he calls Terminal... Schvilkies. Schvilkies. Schvilkies.

...which makes him wander from house to house, repeating the pattern of his childhood on a luxurious scale, wanting more, swallowing companies larger than his own. It is precisely the reason that Wexner has a billion and doesn't stop at, say, five million in a new Mercedes every other year, and what he calls normal life. Bridge on Wednesdays and Bar Mif is on Saturdays, and the winding hollow country club in Columbus...

which is like Buckingham Palace to him when he was 15. Yeah. So that's just to point out that like, A, he's a fucking weird dude. He's a sketchy dude. He's running two sex trafficking rings out of his companies that he doesn't know anything about. And simultaneously, he founded, I mean, the Wexner Foundations and the Leslie Wexner Heritage Foundation. Those are also very...

and controversial. They're very tied to Israel because he is one of the foremost Israeli philanthropists, despite being an American. But he founded what was called the mega group, which is a essentially a, I mean, it was not disclosed for a long time. It was secret.

And it is a group of Jewish billionaires that get together on behalf of global Judaism, which is not uncommon. And there's nothing wrong with that if they're not committing crimes. Um, but they would get together and meet and it's people like Leslie Wexner, Charles Bronfman. The list is, we could look it up. Um, and that group, it is unclear if we have proof that they were conducting espionage, but there are, there are, uh,

All of them have ties to organized crime through various elements, like the Bronfman's were liquor were rum runners as one example that were then involved in the mob.

Leslie Wexner is involved in these trafficking rings, etc. And that group seems to have been directly associated with Jeffrey Epstein. And she's again, she's one that she shows all the primary sources and like lays it all out of this is what we know. And this is where the source came from. And this is what it said. And these are possible explanations for it. Here's one or two or three explanations of what it might be. But we don't really know because this is as far as the evidence goes. And

And so Leslie Wexner is just one where there's all this swirling evidence all around him that the in order for him to not be aware of what's going on and to not have been an active part of this is damn near unbelievable in my eyes, allegedly.

That's well covered. You did a good job of covering your bases there. Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, I've learned to do because, I mean, I started on TikTok where you can't even say certain words or you'll get, you'll get taken off a TikTok. Right. Right. Yeah. Which is also fascinating. But like the, so the files getting released, I am not expecting them to come out in any complete form because the, the mainstream understanding is that Jeffrey Epstein was the guy, right?

Jeffrey Epstein was just an employee of these organized crime rings that work on behalf of like the CIA and Israeli Mossad and British intelligence. And the whole because organized crime is the black markets, the dark things, the sex, the drugs, the rock and roll, the child trafficking. And intelligence agencies were designed to be legitimate governments, uh,

point of access to organized crime. I mean, theoretically, intelligence agencies were supposed to be Truman wanted the intelligence agencies to be a newspaper about what's going on in the world for the president to know. Right. But Alan Dulles was not about that. Alan Dulles, founder of the CIA, was like, I want to do covert operations and very immediately covert operations were like overthrowing the government of Guatemala, Iran, Afghanistan.

buying the elections in Italy. They bought the elections in Italy by just passing giant bags of cash to the mafia so they would just go buy the election right after World War II because they needed to not let Italy fall to the communists. It's where the Vatican is. So the CIA, though Truman okayed it, hoping that it would be a newspaper,

The CIA has been covert operations from the start. And covert operations is all about public-private partnerships so that you can't have it traced back to you, right? Because if you get caught doing MKUltra shit, the government's fucked.

Right. Right. And so what they want to do is they want to outsource MKUltra shit or child trafficking shit or drug running shit to that shell company that's hiring that guy that works at that organized crime. Right. And same way USA does it with NGOs. Bingo. And that is all. And so that's what the deep state is. The deep state is the conglomerate of organized crime and intelligence agencies that work in the shadows as well as the halls of power. But they're not supposed to exist. We're not supposed to know about that.

them, but they've always existed because the, before we even founded the CIA during world war two, there was this bombing of the ship in a port on the Eastern seaboard. Um, the USS Liberty is confusing my memory right now. Um, it was called operation underworld is what the, there's a Wikipedia page about operation underworld and there's a whole bunch more about it as the ship blows up in harbor and they were building this big new ship. Um,

It would have been in the early 40s, I believe. It was during World War II, inside of World War II. And the ship was blown up. Here it is. And it's not clear if it was German U-boats. There are reports that later Meyer Lansky and the mob took credit for it, like low-key. But we don't really know for sure who blew it up. But when it blew up, the U.S. government got really worried that...

They had no way to secure the ports along the eastern seaboard because all the ports were run by the mob because the mob ran all the unions. Right. And so they rather than trying to wrestle the ports, control the ports back from the mob, they just went to the mob and said, we'll partner with you. If you guys lock down the ports, we'll we'll let you get a new thing. And that's kind of what Operation Underworld is all about.

And so what they did during World War II is they literally gave control over the entire eastern seaboard. I mean, I'm being facetious, but they gave control over all the ports on the eastern seaboard to the goddamn drug smugglers, like to the mob, which their favorite thing is to smuggle things. Drugs, weapons, guns, duh, whatever. I don't know.

And so before the CIA was even founded, the OSS, the intelligence agency during the wartime, was already partnering with organized crime. And the people that founded those intelligence agencies, like Alan Dulles and John Foster Dulles, they were corporate lawyers. And that's...

Can I just keep going on this? Because this is like... Keep going. Let them cook. This is the thing that blew my mind, right? Is I was trying to research GameStop and shit. And then I started to realize that there's this whole monstrosity that is an official part of our government, these intelligence agencies, that when you really learn their history and read about their official history, let alone their history that sort of is still secret...

It is very clear that they've been off the rails right from the start. And that's true inside of every, like whether you're reading legacy of ashes and the devil's chess board, very well researched official books about this shit, or if you're doing internet research. And the reason why you'd start an intelligence agency using a corporate lawyer instead of like a doctor or a military guy or something is because a corporate lawyer is

is already familiar with all of the big CEOs of all the big corporations, right? Alan Dulles worked at Sullivan and Cromwell as a lawyer. And so he was very familiar with IG Farben producing Zyklon B for the Nazis. He was familiar with Standard Oil. He was familiar with shipping companies and fruit companies and all these companies all around the world. And he's got good connections with them all. And so you suddenly, you hire one guy, Alan Dulles, and you have just hired an entire network of multinational corporations, right?

to work on behalf of the U.S. But when you read the histories and you read what Alan Dulles was saying behind closed doors and everything, what he was doing is he was hiring the U.S. government in order to fund a corporate slush fund for corporations to utilize this power, this newly government bestowed power to essentially wage violence that is sanctioned. Because you see what I'm saying? Because all those corporations, the perfect example is Guatemala.

United Fruit Company had bought up all this land in Guatemala and was growing bananas like crazy. And a lot of the land was just sitting vacant. And Jacobo Arbenz comes into power and he's like, this is bullshit. There's this American corporation that's owning all of our land that's making all of us poor. And they're not even using a bunch of this land. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to buy back the land. He didn't take it. He bought it back from the United Fruit Company. And he was going to distribute it for free to all the farmers that were destitute, which is like,

socialist, kind of, but it's also pretty badass to use your government money to buy all your farmers' land from this multinational corporation, but that pissed United Fruit off. And this is right as the CIA was getting founded, and United Fruit was a client of Sullivan and Cromwell. And Alan Dulles was a lawyer there, right? So United Fruit goes to Alan Dulles. His brother, John Foster Dulles, was the Secretary of State? Yeah, Secretary of State. So these two brothers that are both lawyers for Sullivan and Cromwell are the director... well,

Technically, Alan Dulles was not yet the director of CIA, but he was like the founder. He just had a beef with Truman and with the first couple of leaderships of the president there. And so United Fruit goes to them and is like, hey, can we overthrow this piece of shit? Because he's fucking with our business. Right. So this is like how corporations wanted this government sanctioned power.

And they, through those two brothers, lobbied the United States, propagandized the United States. They hired propaganda artists to propagandize them. And they painted him as a communist right at our doorstep. And then the CIA went in and through a series of kind of somewhat botched attempts called P.B. Success and P.B. or rather Operation Operation Success and Operation P.B. Success.

they overthrew the government of Guatemala and they ousted him. They bombed Guatemala city and they got rid of him and they put in their own dictator that, that started like, you know, 30 years of,

absolute devastation and like military rule and just death, like really dark shit that basically tore Guatemala apart on behalf of United Fruit. They did the same thing in Iran, like three years later with Kermit Roosevelt, where it became this thing where these multinational corporations that are affiliated with this intelligence agency, just kind of through friendships and through partnerships and through the network,

They started to utilize Alan Dulles and the CIA in general on their behalf to do things for the corporate interest because they are the power players in this world. They always have been the power players in this world. And they had been itching for quite some time to get that government-sanctioned ability to wage violence against anyone around the world. And we've been doing that ever since, using the intelligence agencies on behalf of the corporate blob, which is not always distinguishable from organized crime.

And just going off and whacking people and overthrowing governments and starting coups like right to this day to like Ukraine 2014. And they can do it without being directly connected.

So, yeah, the concept of plausible deniability. That's the whole point is you want to set it up in a series of shells. And the darker it is, the more you have to kind of separate it so that when Jeffrey Epstein goes down, no one knows who he worked for. He worked for intelligence and I was told to leave him alone. And so you're left to speculate who he worked for. And that's why we're we are left to rely on sources like Whitney Webb, who's done sort of the definitive dig because they won't fucking tell us because a bunch of them are blackmail.

Yeah. And it's all, it's like, it's not like it's literally a cabal of shadowy dudes around one table. It is just an alignment of many different interests, different families, different corporations, different bankers, organized crime groups, all sort of playing games for power. And these guys have that much power and those guys have that much power and interests tend to align like,

The general vibe in the corporations will probably align with the vibe of the bankers. And their vibe will probably align a fair bit with some of this organized crime stuff. And we'll fund this terrorist organization, Mujahideen, until it's not convenient anymore. And then we'll actually use them as a patsy to go to war because there's terrorists over there, goddammit.

Right? And they've gotten quite good at kind of weaving those narratives through their operations that they've either covered up or exposed what they wanted to in various ways to kind of steer our narrative around what we know. But when you actually read the history, it's like, holy shit. It's crazy how much has gone on. Did you ever read Smedley Butler's War as a Racket? Oh, yeah, dude. So that was 33.

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Pull that up, Jamie. Do you know about the business plot? About what they tried to do with him? No. Oh, yes, I do. The Nazi coup? Yeah, he wanted to take over the country. No, he saved the country from it. Right, but not that he wanted to. All the industrialists wanted to. They wanted him to be a part of taking over the country. Yeah, there was almost a Nazi coup in the 30s where we almost got taken over by our own military and became Nazis because Prescott Bush and a bunch of his other buddies were on Team Nazi. And it's because they were all funding the Nazis and they wanted us on that team.

And they tried to recruit Smedley Butler to be the lead of this. Yep. And take over the country. I suspect, I'm sort of, I'm always kind of forming my understanding research by research, but I suspect that it was World War I where they realized how much power, like, you can have if you're funding both sides of a war.

Look at this quote. I spent 33 years in active military service, and during that period, I spent most of my time as a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. Smedley Butler, 1935. He was one of the most decorated Marines, or was he in the Army of all time?

Un-fucking-believable. Yeah, War is a Racket is a relatively short book that anyone can buy online, and I highly recommend it to everyone. That paired with... But that's so wild that that was 33. Oh, yeah, and it's still going on to this day. And the general public hasn't even had a whisper of this. Like, the average normie, probably four years ago, five years ago. Yep.

When did this start making it into the zeitgeist? Obviously in films. I think when Elon bought Twitter. And it's still not making it into the mainstream, mainstream zeitgeist. But there's, I mean, and you've played a big part in this too, this whole decentralized media space. As technology naturally walks forward, I think that we're living in this world where all these rich people, all these evil controlling sickos,

of varying degrees, they come from a world where they could control everything. They could control the newspapers. They could buy out the press. They could pay for journalists. And that strategy walked itself into technology. And suddenly technology is just naturally walking forwards. And this just changes the game. Like you can't use those old strategies when you have a phone and internet and social media. And we're watching the cognitive sort of breakdown of their old ways that they don't know how to adapt. And it's just

Just scheme after scheme after scheme is crumbling. Right. And the secret is just free speech. That's all you need is free speech and communication on the internet. And doge. Yeah. I mean, doge is how you actually go after it. But you need someone who's...

pretty balls out. Oh, yeah. You need a guy like Elon that has... I was glad that Elon said the stuff about assassination on the podcast the other day because that needs to be said is that they are taking great risk. Even Pam and Cash, all of them, are taking great risk to do this. And it would not be the first time that someone's spouse had been whacked or someone's kids had been threatened or, like, they'd...

you know, created a scandal. Like, do you know about the scandal of the Chappaquiddick Bridge with... Chappaquiddick. Chappaquiddick. With Ted Kennedy it was, right? Yeah. That is such a great illustration of how, like, it might not even be you that they go after. It might be just... There's all sorts of ways that if you do the wrong thing, allegedly, they might...

come after people around you. And so people like Cash and Pam and RFK are taking on a lot of risk. And that's also why I think that the, like my following is real conspiratorial usually. Like I'm moderate compared to most of my people. And there's a lot of suspicion of these guys right now of like, they must already be controlled if they can even get in there. And it's like, I don't know if I buy that. I don't know about that because I used to think, well, listen, I think there's definitely some manipulation of voting.

Okay, I'll say that. Oh, yeah, that's the Holy Grail. You can't say it, dude. Yeah, I say it. I say it because I think...

Listen, at some level, for sure. Now, let's talk about the Hunter Biden laptop. Now, when you have 51 former intelligence agents claiming that this is Russian disinformation, and then you have the government getting it removed, Twitter complying, you can't even post a link for the fucking New York Post. The second oldest newspaper in the country, right?

Legitimate newspaper when the FBI had had the laptop already right so that in the time of an election is Election interference rate up so that is manipulation of voting yeah until that came in that was the only election interference that I was willing to talk about Then you know it was very provable very obvious another obvious portal Which is California and New York won't even allow you to show your ID when you vote. Yep. There's only one reason

reason why you would do that because you want people voting that shouldn't be voting and you want it to count because you want to win. Yep. Right. And more and more we're seeing that they are literally importing voters and paying them with government money. Yes. With like two huge amounts of money when we have homeless veterans on the street. We have funds. Over 300,000 children are missing that have crossed our border that we have delivered to unknown sponsors. Well, I think the Trump administration very quickly within the first couple of weeks,

found 90,000 of them. I don't know what the number is now. I haven't seen that. Yeah, there was some, see if you can find that. I would love to see that. The Trump administration accounted for, well, they started looking. I know, right? The first fucking, you know, the first administration was like, I don't know where it is.

do's. The Biden administration is like, what do we do? Well, we can't close the border. That's wrong. Yeah. The whole thing was... They literally locked up the... You know the guys that built the border wall? Steve Bannon and... It was Steve Bannon and Dustin Stockton and I think one or two other people when they wouldn't build it. These guys just went out and raised millions of dollars on their own and they literally just started building border wall.

Do you know about that? I'd heard something along those lines.

Until they arrested them. Did you know that also before the election, all the border materials were for sale? Yep. They sold the border materials. Yep. I mean, they were just trying to get everything out as fast as they could. They were deleting files and just giving out aid money and announcing more and more foreign war aid to Ukraine and Israel and everything. They said it was like throwing gold off the Titanic. It's crazy, dude. Yeah. Yeah. And I am...

really excited for everything that's going to come out. But I'm also like... Before we go any further, I'm reading into the kids. It's definitely a political thing. Oh, the children are actually missing BBC. Go fuck yourself. Well, this says that they had them...

I guess in records and then when they sent court notices out, they just don't come to their court date So they consider them missing. Okay, that can make sense. But I think the the Trump administration I know that counted for quite a few of that part. I don't know. That's what they say You're not gonna find them on BBC. Well, I'm just yeah. All right. That's yeah the so I So don't you like no don't no don't put that Trump administration Finds missing kids try that. Yeah because

I work with this guy named Ryan Mata who spent three years of his life going to the border with his own dollars and filming documentaries about this and interviewing the people that like rescue trafficked children and actually interviewing whistleblowers from within the Biden regime's trafficking scheme. Like the people that were dropping kids off with sponsors and stuff. Bottom one, Sean fucked.

Listen to what it says there. A Trump administration is allegedly located between 75,000 and 80,000 of the 300,000 missing migrant children, according to Harris Faulkner of Fox News. This is without a link to a source. Trust me, bro. I understand. But Google Harris Faulkner of Fox News. I would love for that to happen. Harris Faulkner.

I mean, I suspect that every news, every single like there's every incentive for Trump to find them and to do something about it. But I think the vast majority of them are dead, unfortunately. So that's a Facebook link. I mean, and this is the thing is that there are certain topics that are so disinformationalized and so sensationalized that when you start to research into them, you realize you're inside of this media maze.

madness that it's so hard to find the truth. And COVID was one of those. And J six was one of those. The elections was one of those. Yeah. And when you find that it becomes it for me, it sets a bell off is a I'm in something I should learn about, but B I have to be very careful.

And I don't know. And you never know what you can trust in those spaces. And so that's where I change my switches for what to believe. And I kind of open up the bandwidth in terms of take it all in, but be very skeptical because that's where you get wild conspiracy theories that are unproven. And trust me. And then you also get all kinds of propaganda trying to obfuscate the narrative.

Yeah, that's a big factor that people need to be aware of is purposeful misinformation that gets inserted into a narrative to make that narrative ridiculous. Yep. And there's whole conspiracy theories that I think are like that. And Q might be one of them. I don't know.

I think Flat Earth is one of them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think Flat Earth was someone did that as a goof, and then they couldn't believe how much it took. Yeah, right? But if you can speak well, and you're articulate, and you have compelling things that you're saying, and there's no counter, there's no scientist going, stop, stop, stop. We can show you in fucking 10 minutes that the Earth is round. Everything in the sky is round. The Earth is the only thing that's not round? Yeah.

You know, the weirdness of it is how much people want to believe that everything's bullshit. And so you could trick a certain number of people. I mean, I get why. Like, think about how... So 10 years ago, Alex Jones was saying that the whole government's controlled by pedophiles. And he was a psychopath. Or I guess more than 10 years ago now. And then Jeffrey Epstein got caught. Dude, I talked to people about it back then. Right? And they thought it was the funniest thing ever. Yeah. And you were a nut. Yeah. I'm telling you, there's a fucking island. They take him to an island. Yeah.

They get them fucked up on drugs. There's more than one island, too. There's been a few islands. Yeah, you think that's the only place they do that? There's probably some super secret place in China that they all go to. Oh, yeah. I mean, they're all over Mexico. They're all over, like... Oh, Jesus. Yeah, imagine what is in Mexico. The government of Mexico has been partnered with the cartels for at least two administrations, is what it looks like. And the cartels are just, like, running that whole game, that whole sort of northwestern, like, quarter.

quarter of Mexico. I can only imagine what we'll find down there. Really hilarious is the blue and on Twitter people. Oh, dude. The kooky ones who are like, yeah, you're going to go after the cartel. Good luck. Yeah. Good luck. The greatest military force the world has ever known versus drug runners.

Are you out of your fucking mind? Which, to be fair, the cartels are highly militarized. Sure. And they're extremely advanced, but sure. Yeah, they're not going to compete with us. No, no, no. I had my friend Evan Hafer on here from Black Rifle Coffee, and he was talking about, like, do you understand the kind of... Like, these are very capable people, no doubt. Do you understand the kind of...

of ultra violence that they will experience if they let these you know fucking SEAL team guys go after the cartel people because those are proud Americans that have been itching to defend our nation like they have been itching for the ability to actually do something meaningful and that's also the place where look

Afghanistan doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to send a minister. Oh, it was an opium operation. Right, right. Oh, yeah, that too. We can get to that. Oh, yeah. But it doesn't make sense that we would send troops over there. It makes sense that we would send troops after the cartels. Absolutely. If you think about the amount of death that occurs in the United States because of fentanyl overdoses, where you have tainted drugs that are coming in across the border and killing people left at unprecedented levels. Children, like taking kids from families. My whole generation was devastated by it.

My whole generation. Everyone today knows someone who died of an overdose. Everyone does. That was very uncommon when I was in high school. And the problem is that it was not just illegal fentanyl and illegal heroin. The problem is that the Sackler family and the pharmaceutical industry was in on it. And so doctors were prescribing it to normal people.

And it was just devastating our whole population all at once. It's so tragic. That painkiller documentary on Netflix is fucking fat. Or the docudrama series. And so the administration now in Mexico, Claudia Sheinbaum, she is like the protege of AMLO, who was the leader of that same party from before. And I think he served two terms. So it's been something like the last six to eight years or something.

Their official cartel policy is hugs, not bullets. And what they basically describe is we're causing more death by going after the cartel and we'll just agree to not touch them. We'll just agree to leave them alone. And I'm kind of exaggerating again, but hugs, not bullets is their official slogan for their policy about the cartels. So it makes sense for us to fucking do something. It's like, we'll do the bullets. You can keep your hugs. Thank you very much. I wonder what's going to happen with that.

Because they did declare them a terrorist organization. Yeah. I mean, I was worried. I kind of came out a little hot and I posted on Twitter that was like, no fucking drone strikes inside of the U.S. No, sir. No, you're not. Because the way that the sort of announcement was worded of like we're declaring cartel members, terrorist organizations, and we will be tart and drone strikes are like totally a OK on that.

is what someone was saying about it. And I was like, where's the line on allowing the targeting of cartel? Because once you start targeting terrorists, that's why 9-11 was so subversive, is it turned everyone into a possible enemy of the state that can be shipped off to Guantanamo because terrorism is just this elusive tactic.

Right. And anyone can just become a terrorist if we just call them a terrorist. Propaganda can be bad. There was people shipped off to Guantanamo who were definitely innocent. A hundred percent. And did time and got released. Oh, yeah. You want to radicalize someone?

Send them to Guantanamo Bay for a decade for something they didn't do. Right. And you brought up the Hunter Biden laptop and those 51 intelligence agents. I wanted to look into it. So I looked at the letter itself and I actually read the letter. And on the letter at the bottom, they all signed it. And if you just start Googling the people that signed it, the very first two names were ex-directors of the CIA that lied to us about Guantanamo Bay and lied to us about surveilling American citizens and lied on the stand.

And so they're professional liars that are from the intel agencies that are saying, oh, no, no, no. Like Hunter Biden is all good above board.

It's like, why would we ever trust that? But that's how powerful spin is when every media article parrots that, no, it wasn't made in a lab. There's no evidence it was made in a lab. That couldn't be true. Yeah. Everyone just believes it because we want to believe that that's how the world is. We used to. Don't you think that over the last four years, COVID was probably the biggest wake-up call ever for people? I mean, it was my wake-up call. I was a leftist that didn't think about shit before COVID. Me too. No, you thought about shit.

You just didn't think about that shit. No, I thought about shit, but I was pretty much a leftist. Totally. Totally.

And then I was like, oh, this is fake. Yep. And to be fair, I think we're kind of both still sort of leftist. What left should be socially progressive. Yeah, we need because politics is supposed to be a balance. We need regulation of corporations. That's a leftist ideology. Yes. But we need individual liberty and we're supposed to have a balance of the two. Yes. And when you and I think my theory is that it used to be easier to control the right because it was a big money party and you could go to war with them and you could lead us around by the right.

But as technology came in, they realized it was way easier to spin narratives to the collectivists. And if you can get all the collectivists, the leftists, to go along with the narrative, that's way more effective than these individual liberty people with the guns. Well, also, you're controlling all the universities if you have the leftists.

as it then leaves the universities and enters into the workforce. The most ignorant people ready to be programmed. I mean, that's always how communist revolutions have been programmed. Well, we were talking about this with Jordan Peterson, where people were saying, what is the big deal? This is like 2015, 2016, when Jordan Peterson first, and when Brett Weinstein first started emerging. And obviously,

Before that, I was talking about these crazy things that were going on in universities and people were like, why are you paying attention to these fringe things that kids are doing? I'm like, they're going to graduate. These are the people. These aren't the people who 30 years ago were studying in school, trying to figure out what career to get into and job. No, they want to change the world with activism now. Everyone wants to be an activist in every job you take. Everything you take is supposed to enact social justice. Yep.

That is supposed to be your, and then you're given this as like your social credit system when you're in the universities. And then you leave. Like, I still want to be the good person. I still want to be the person that everybody applauds. I will do the right thing. I will say the right things. And then you get DEI in the workforce. Like, oh, great. It's all here now. We're all together. And in a world with no meaning where like life is meaningless for 99% of the population, you give them meaning and they will cling to that. You're on a good team now. You're on a team.

Yeah. And I understand it because I come from that. I come from one of the most liberal cities in this fucking country. Yeah. And but then I'm like, COVID's happening. And I was taking it really seriously. Like my last Facebook post was like, all young people, we should lock down and take this really fucking seriously. And then my all my roommates were like, hey, let's go down to Seattle and do the BLM protests. And I'm like, whoa, like you're a mask Nazi. You're like on me about my masking. And you're trying to go burn down Seattle in a group of like 100,000 people.

What? And so they all went down to Seattle and I'm back at home. And I mean, I still love them to death. Like if they watch this, like no shade to them. Like, but I'm at home watching the live streams of the BLM protests. And I'm like, where'd that pallet of bricks come from? Right. And that got me thinking. This episode is brought to you by Toccova's.

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And there's all these explanations. Well, there's a construction site. Let me tell you something about construction sites. Bricks are fucking expensive. They don't leave bricks laying around like that because people would steal them and take them to their construction sites. That shit happens all the time. If you leave copper piping on a construction site overnight, people just steal that shit. Especially downtown where there's meth heads everywhere. Yes. Why you got a basket of fucking bricks? No. And so then the thing is I start asking a question. I ask one question in that leftist environment and it's just like...

Don't ask questions. Like, I'm fucking out of here. Well, Chase Hughes was talking about that when he was talking about COVID. Like, what are the ways you can clearly see that something is a psyop? First, you're not allowed to question anything. Yep. 100%. And questions are met with, like, obey the herd. And they demonize you. And they don't ever attack the argument. They don't ever engage with the argument.

No. And that's what I love about the job that I've fallen into as a sort of like researcher is that I have no problem with being wrong. My favorite moments in my career so far have been when someone's proved me wrong and I've been like, oh,

Oh, shit. Thanks, bro. I didn't know that. I'm going to research that and look it up because some people can get trapped in their ego and need to stay on some hill and die there. But that's retarded. You don't need to do that. It's a progress for intelligence, for learning. That's what the Academy of Ideas was built on. And so having this...

Culture of censorship and of herd mentality, especially in the universities is the most toxic thing to our national future you could ever Incorporate. Yeah, it's a perfect thing that a foreign company or a foreign government would do to the United States in order to ruin us and this is what Yuri Bezmenov talked about in the 1980s bingo That's such a formative speech to watch that speech. Everyone should watch this and it's

Ironically in 1984. Yeah. He's saying this. Well, I mean these tactics are old like I mean they go and I'm I more and more started to look at like we we change from kinetic warfare at the atom bomb to like psyop and subversive and information warfare and we were still doing kinetic warfare. There's all these little proxy Wars that were based on propaganda and like in order to spin narratives in order to get support.

And more and more as technology has evolved, one of my kind of sticks is that this, the warfare is information warfare now, because what they need to do is they need to convince everyone that COVID is real and that you need to lock down and you need to wear your mask and you can take the vaccine so we can profit. And all of that is information. Yeah. And that changes it from soldiers fighting soldiers to government agencies or rather NGOs and all these conglomerates of like, of money, like groups, individuals,

essentially targeting all of us and we become the targets of that warfare. And so it's on us to get educated. What's fun though is when they try to spin a narrative to try to cover up their tracks and it just winds up exposing more people to what's actually going on. One of my favorite ones was when Geraldo Rivera was in Afghanistan going through the poppy fields with the United States military guarding the poppy fields. I don't think I've seen this. You've never seen this? I know what you're talking about but I don't think I've seen this.

I've seen it. Amazing. It's amazing because he's in full propaganda gaslight mode. And he's explaining why it's important to protect these poppy fields because these farmers- This is their livelihood. We're protecting them from the Taliban. These poor farmers. We have to help these people. Because the Taliban shut down the opium production. The Taliban outlawed opium production and burned all the fields and got rid of it all. So he's literally talking to this officer-

in front of the poppy fields. You see these guys. That's crazy. Guarding the poppy fields. U.S. military, right? Play this. Oh, my God. Play this. We're going to head to Afghanistan. Let's go. This morning. We're going to head to Afghanistan. The Taliban is using it to intimidate the population. The next in Hamad province is Geraldo Rivera. Good morning to you, Geraldo. Tell us what you've seen during your days there in Afghanistan.

Hi, Alison, Dave and Clayton. Yes, in some ways, the Marines brilliantly executed invasion of Marjah, this town in the middle of Helmand province, was the easy part. The hard part now is governing this province, a province, as you suggest, that has become addicted to opium in many, many ways. That is the principal crop.

that is being grown here. The Taliban lend the farmers the money. They are indebted to the Taliban. They have to grow the opium. Now the Marines in their success are in a sense a victim of their success because now the population is, you know, they have these opium fields and we are tolerating it. We are tolerating the cultivation of the opium because we know that if we were to destroy it now, the population would turn against the Marines and it would be a real security risk. Let me introduce

Wow.

You really can't make this up. It gets better. Really a wonderful group of Marines here. I know that you care deeply about this contradiction, the fact that here you have one of the best fighting forces in the world ever mounted, and in a sense you're watching as this opium is being grown. I know it grinds at your gut. How do you deal with it? What are you doing about it? Well, frankly, this is part of their culture. So while it might grind in my gut, it's what they do.

We provide them security. He was given very strict orders that morning. Different crops to grow. They're getting the seed and the fertilizer. They can give different crops. Grow tomatoes, guys. Yeah, right. Hey, you can grow apples. My favorite statistic about that era is that I'm going to get the number wrong, but it so that opium is only grown in so many places, right? And it used to be in the Vietnam region in Southeast Asia, the Golden Triangle. Then it changed to the Golden Crescent, which is

And when that era happened, it was something like 70%, 80% of the world's opium supply was coming from Afghanistan. And if you just do a little math and think it through, you realize that we have this gigantic opioid market of legal opioids of the Sackler family and all these pharma companies. And you realize that it's physically impossible for them not to be in on this scheme because where's, where are they growing their opium? They're not growing it here.

They're not growing it in Africa. So by definition, when you just think through what's going on here, you realize that some of those opium fields are illegal heroin and some of those opium fields are big pharma. It coincides with the opioid crisis in America. Direct one-to-one, dude. The pharmaceutical-grade prescribed opioid crisis in America as it goes up.

And then you see at one point in time, Afghanistan was responsible for 94% of the world's opium. Bingo. There's the stat. While we are occupying. Now it's Myanmar, which also just went through a military coup. Yep. I mean, they've always got to control. So opium has been one of the most important crops to control ever since the British Empire and like the days of tall shit.

You know about the opium wars with China? Yes. That was a funny history to learn about. Yeah, crazy. Yeah, because that's the thing is that I've been basically learning everything from scratch as I've gone because I didn't know shit. How many years have you been in this? 2000.

Two, less than two. That's so crazy. I mean, like I was learning before that. You've done so well. You must be a plant. I know, right? You must be some sort of an operative. I'm a massage agent. You're just good at it. Just, you know, if you're good at it, if you're Whitney Webb or if you're you or any of those people. It's just a scientific process of having the right degree of like understanding of just like the right amount of like need to see primary sources and real evidence and the ability to look and test a hypothesis and see what comes out and not being attached to what's happening.

one conclusion beyond what the evidence actually suggests. Also, not being afraid to seem foolish to the uninformed. Absolutely. Because so many people will dismiss most of what we've talked about today offhand. Yeah. Without any, especially people that only consume the Wall Street Journal and mainstream media. But I had the benefit of being a normie when I started.

And so I walked my way in piece by piece. So you know how they, like I started with all the black rock conspiracy theories. I started with who owns the media, who owns the tampon aisle, who owns all these things. And I would go into the grocery stores and do the videos in the grocery stores where I would like go to the cereal aisle and be like, who owns all these cereals? And it turns out the entire cereal aisle is three companies and, uh,

I mean, the tampon aisle is even better because they're all getting sued for having reprotoxic chemicals in the tampons. Right. Meaning they'll kill your reproductive system. Well, not only that, toxic shock syndrome. Exactly, right? Yeah. And so that sort of, I like walked myself slowly into learning and I walked my audience along with me. And I also developed this understanding of, I mean, I used to be a teacher. And so I have this, a certain understanding of like,

how do you communicate in a way that access that's speaking from their perspective instead of from my perspective which right now i'm just talking to you instead of talking to them because it's more fun right but um but when i actually make my videos i do my best to try to put myself in like in the shoes of who i'm trying to access and what do they know and what do i need to communicate and show evidence of for them to understand that that like you can look into this and check my sources yeah and you can think about this you're you have permission to think about

You do a very good job of citing your sources and telling people where to look if they want to find out more information about it too because a lot of it is a real big deep dive and the most important part it's by far it's like unless you're you unless your person does it for a living like the amount of time that it takes to find out about this stuff and then even you who's been in for two years doing this like there's there's Decades of layers you need to cover and it'll take forever like Whitney Webb's been doing it for how long I don't even know

Alex Jones has been in the game for 30 plus years. Exactly. And there's still always more to learn and always more to connect. And we get new information that puts new light on old situations. It just re it's this constant rearranging game of understanding. And I just love that. I mean, yeah, most people don't have time for all of it, but as we're sort of stratifying into this ecosystem of content of like creators and journalists and thinkers, uh,

that we're all kind of collectively doing the work together and some of us are more integral than others, some of us are just click baiters and some of us are like I'm somewhere in the middle and then you get some people that are really professional about it, like problematically professional about it, like they can only get so much done. Have you ever looked into the Oklahoma City bombing? No, not much actually, not hardly at all. But I know it's one that's like one of those seminal moments. That's a good one. First of all, the amount of damage to the building is not something that you would get from a fertilizer bomb.

And the way a fertilizer bomb would work in front of the building, that building's blown out. Exactly. And the FBI was retrieving unblown bombs from the building. Interesting. Not only that, Timothy, like the whole Timothy McVeigh thing is fucking wild. When you go down the rabbit hole and start looking into it.

It seems like a false flag. It seems, or it seems like someone else planted bombs inside that building and they blamed it on this fertilizer bomb. What would that false flag have taken us to? Like, what did it achieve? They passed different gun laws and different laws afterwards. Yeah, I mean, 9-11 is the

perfect example of that kind of false flag of this thing that's crazy that has all these questions that get covered up and then we just go to war in the middle east with a country then we have the patriot act exactly too and now it's fine yeah cover up all the missing money uh-huh all these things incredible amounts of control and surveillance now gets used on the population who do you think did 9-11

Or like what conglomerate of groups do you think were involved? Well, for sure the Saudis were involved, right? I mean, a lot of the people were Saudi. A lot of the people were Saudi. I don't know if that necessarily means that the Saudi government had anything to do with it. It could mean it was just people that were recruited by another organization that were with the Saudis. What do you think happened at Tower 7?

I think that's a good question. That's a weird one, right? Because you find out what's in there? I think the Tower 7 had information in it about both. I think it probably had information in it about the planning of the attack and or what was going on with the attack. But I also think it had information about other things that needed to go away. Maybe it's old CIA operations. Maybe it's banking information. Maybe it's information about the trillions of dollars that was missing that Donald Rumsfeld talked about the day before 9-11. Yep.

So he gives a press conference in front of the Pentagon. Was it the Pentagon? Is that where it was? I don't know where the press conference was. I mean, I think it was in a room, but I'm not sure. So he gives this press conference. This press conference, he says there's trillions of dollars they can't account for. And everybody's like, what the fuck?

The very next day, 9-11 happens, and in one of the buildings where they store data, that building mysteriously implodes like a controlled demolition. Like, no building has ever collapsed, ever, just because of fire. And structural damage, for sure, but it's the way it collapses. Even from planes hitting buildings, no building has ever collapsed like that. Other planes have hit buildings. Bombs have gone off in buildings. All sorts of stuff has happened to buildings, and they don't...

fall down like the main towers did, let alone building seven. Right. It's all real weird. At the very least, if that was my building, I'd be like, I'm suing. You guys made a shit building. Yeah, except that he took out special insurance against plane crashes and against terrorism right before it.

But you would take out insurance against terrorism because that place had already been the victim of a bombing. It had been. I mean, that was in the Biggie song. Blow up like the world trade. Classic move. Talking about Biggie, Diddy is on the menu. But it's important to mention as we're getting into all these like government conspiracy theories and like CIA did it, Israel did it, Saudi did it. No one's saying ever, unless you're dumb, that the whole government of any of these countries did it.

Like when you say like people, it's like in the anti-Israel crowd, people get smeared a lot for like,

as though you're claiming that all of Israel did 9-11 or all of Israel did this thing, or when you're talking about the CIA, it's more obvious when you're talking about the CIA. We're not saying that the whole CIA did something. Right. We're saying that these groups, these covert intelligence agencies, they are fertile ground for walled-off areas of need-to-know information behind levels of security clearances where plots can be hatched. And they always have been. That's the whole fucking point of an intelligence agency is to hatch plots. Right. It's unreal that they would hatch such an evil and fucked-up plot. Right. But it's...

But it happened. And you only need to do it. I mean, 9-11 happened when I was in like grade school. And I remember like where I was and all that shit. And that was the seed that just sort of sat under the ground until, you know, BLM that eventually sprouted for me of like, I always knew there was something weird. And I saw zeitgeist when I was way younger. And so I knew that like there's weird shit in this world. But I was a leftist that just wanted to go snowboarding and stuff. So I didn't really think about it until 9-11.

it walked into my city and told me to stay inside and get a jab and all sorts of shit. So they really fucked up with that one. They really fucked up with that one. Well, I think they thought they had us. Yeah.

Because I think they did all the people that are in power operating on a paradigm that existed before the Internet exactly Yeah, do you know Mickey Willis at all? No, do you know the plan Demick films at all? No. Oh, dude You should really check them out. Um, yeah, he's around this area and I had not seen them before Plan Demick one was this doctor named Judy Mike of its that blew the whistle really early on and and that is one of the things that got all this like the fact that you haven't heard of it and seen it and

No, I've heard of it. Exactly. I've heard of it. I just haven't seen it. But I was so balls deep in the COVID thing that I didn't want to see anything more because it was me. I was a part of it. You were a part of that censorship. Yeah. She got that same kind of treatment of like smear campaigns left and right and just hatred. The smear campaign against me, though, was so eye-opening.

When you know that something's not true that's being said on CNN over and over and over about yourself about yourself And then they take your face, and they make you green It's taking horse Paris It was so crazy to watch and to be a part of that it was like wow I'll never trust again I know I know you guys are full of shit and that was a big thing that red-pilled a lot of regular people like like myself included and I

And a good example of like my take on that is I didn't know about ivermectin beforehand. So I didn't even just like be like, oh, Joe Rogan said. I was like, fuck it. I'll look it up. They said that it was an award winning medication. I'll find the goddamn award that they got for it. So I looked it up and I found it. It's like, okay, cool. Not only that, I said a bunch of stuff I took. They only locked on to this horse pace thing. Well, because ivermectin is a great threat to their profit. They can't make money off of it. And it works very, very well if you get it early enough.

But imagine they ignored all the other stuff I took. I said I took IV vitamins. I took prednisone. I took Z-Pak. I took –

Monoclonal antibodies. I have a theory about that and it's that they can't get an emergency use authorization if there is a drug that is that can be considered a cure like a preventative treatment a treatment just a treatment and so they write and so they and I mean you've said this many times right is they needed to act all treatments because The one that they went with was did administered IV post like in the hospital and it was very very

Remdesivir is a whole super fucking dark rabbit hole. Causes kidney failure. Oh, yeah. And they knew that full well. They had already tested it out in Africa. Yeah.

And RFK's book, The Real Anthony Fauci, opened my eyes in a big way. In mine as well. Yeah. And he still has not been sued. No. I was very skeptical about him before I read that book because they had done a great job of connecting him to fringe conspiracies and making him look like a kook. He's the one Kennedy that's out of his mind. Yeah.

And it had been long enough since he was not a kook because he started doing the vaccine stuff for these moms that were coming to him with vaccine injured kids. And he was not trying to do vaccine stuff, but he saw these kids and was like, I need to fight for these people. And he had been spending time talking about mercury poisoning because he was an environmental attorney and he had successfully sued-

all these corporations that were dumping into rivers. He cleaned up the East River. I mean, he did so much great work as an environmental attorney that people forget about because they did such a good job. And again, this is before social media and the internet. You could do a great job of smearing someone and making them look nuts. Remember Jenny McCarthy? They smeared the shit out of Jenny McCarthy because she was suggesting that her child changed after her child was vaccinated.

and her child got autism. Bingo. And this is when they were doing the multi-vaccines in one day and dosing kids up and...

And they made her look like a fucking idiot and they removed her from Hollywood. She essentially got blacklisted. That's the story, right? Yeah. There are certain narratives that are golden cows that you cannot touch. And the vaccine industry has always been one of them. The thing about that one is we all would agree. I would have agreed. If you got a hold of me six years ago and asked me about vaccines, like they're one of the most important inventions in history. And then you read, have you ever read Dissolving Illusions? No. Read that book. Mm-hmm.

All of those diseases had dropped off because of sanitation and nutrition. Yeah, I've seen the graphs. Yeah, they all had dropped off. And then the vaccines come along. Measles included, speaking of the current thing that's a controversy. Which is an infection that everyone got when I was a kid. And what happened was you'd get sick for a few days and then you'd be immune for life. Yep. Yeah.

And they're making it look like everyone's dying from measles. Like, no, if you're dying from measles, you're sick. You're already compromised, which is exactly what happened with COVID, where 90 fucking plus percent of the people who died had four plus comorbidities. Yep. Jesus Christ. Which is why it was such a red pill for me because I was like,

literally an ultra marathon runner that was going to the gym, like three, like three hours a day. I'm like, I don't, I need natural immunity. I already have natural immunity. Go fuck yourself. Like, what are you doing? Yeah.

And the reason why I was talking about Mickey Wilson plandemic is because the second plandemic is called indoctrination. And it's basically a magnum opus about how the vaccine industry, this golden cow is not just like, it's not just one thing or this thing or one thing. It's a organized like group of profit takers that has been growing for decades and Bill Gates. And he like lays out how Bill Gates got into it and,

is on camera saying how many profits he's made off of vaccines and how great of a business model vaccines are. And vaccines as a concept,

Great concept, but it is so lucrative if if manipulated and corrupted that really evil people started you really evil things with it Also, you have complete immunity to liability Yeah well they got that orchestrated part way through that that sequence because they were starting to get sued like fucking crazy right because there was all kinds of injuries and so that's Exactly. Yeah. Yeah Reagan passed that act

They've got to stop that. You can't just give people immunity because then they lie. They lie so they can sell more stuff. And then they get caught like they did with Vioxx and they only pay a percentage of the profits. Yeah. And it's not just that you can't give them immunity. It's that you cannot just punish with fines. You have to punish with prison time because if you don't punish with prison time, it will never change. That's true of the drug industry. That's true of our corrupt government officials that are like, for example, the person that was withholding these Epstein documents from Pam Bondi.

And she fired him. No, put him on a stand and, and, and at least give him a trial to make sure he didn't commit treason or something else. Right. And maybe he's fine and you let him go and he's just fired.

But like, if you aren't, if you're not going to send the Epstein clients to prison, if you're just going to like find a couple of people like 2008 banking collapse, we'll find one, like we'll find all the bankers a little bit and we'll just put one little pawn of a banker in jail. That's why we have this crazy fucking like 2008 was horrible, but it was by no means the last market crash that we're having. Um,

Because no one ever went to jail. They just switch their tactics around and get ready for the next profit-taking event. Yeah, and they've already paid everybody off so that they get preferable treatment. And this is exactly what happens to the pharmaceutical drug companies. When they get caught, they just pay fines. They don't go to jail. They killed 50,000, 60,000 people with Vioxx. The thing about white-collar crime is it's real profitable and there's no consequences. And they have the media because they sponsor the media. Bingo, yep.

And usually they're in bed with these intelligence agencies and organized crime aspects in some small ways or sometimes really big ways, like in the case of the opium fields, where they're clearly getting their opium from these poppy fields. And clearly they are interfacing with the illegal drug trades, at least on some level. Not necessarily saying they're collaborating, but they're certainly getting it from the same suppliers. Right.

It's just, it's really dark. The idea that they're not is crazy. Yeah. The idea that you're going to have 94% of the world's opium and you're just going to ignore it while you're occupying the country with the military force and guarding the fields. Shut the fuck up. Especially considering, so that was George W. Bush, right? Right. But George H.W. Bush, this is one that's not totally declassified yet, but I've been digging deep into it. I got a whole bunch of documents on it and it's kind of declassified, is that during Vietnam era-

We were managing all the opium production and the heroin production in Laos and in the surrounding area. And it was being sold to American service members to make money for the CIA for black operations. And that was George H.W. Bush. That was his time. That's why his nickname is Poppy Bush.

It's not because he's like the dad. It's because he was brought into that organization with Richard Helms. No way. That's the reason why his name. Oh, no. That's why his nickname is Poppy. Oh, my God. And that is still not mainstream CIA disclosure news. There's a whole fucking rabbit hole about it. It is kind of disclosed that we were involved in that drug trade somewhat, but it's not disclosed that that's why all the Vietnam veterans came home addicted to heroin. Yeah.

Because the CIA was selling heroin to them and to a lot of other parts of the world in order to raise funds for their black budget operations. Because the CIA has always had trouble funding all their operations. Which is also what they did with crack cocaine in Los Angeles. Bingo. With Freeway Ricky Ross. It's all tied in. So Bill Casey, Bill Colby rather, who put that all together, he was in the heroin operations in Vietnam. And he was a little lower down and not running it. And then...

as he grew up and came to power in the CIA and those other guys that were more competent, Richard Helms being the primary one, Richard Helms and H.W. Bush, they were not involved when he went off on his own and tried to set up the cocaine smuggling. And that's why he bungled it so fucking bad because he was a psychopath that didn't have the skill sets required in order to run something that complex. And it eventually, when Barry Seale got popped, he was the guy that was flying the

Like it used to be, I'll drive a truck with a brick of cocaine across the border. And then Barry seal was this military CIA pilot that said like, Oh, I'll just fill my whole fucking plane with cocaine. And you get like a thousand runs in one. And he was just flying whole planes over to Mina, Arkansas, where Bill Clinton was the, the governor.

Yeah. As well as a few other places. That Tom Cruise movie where they get a call from the governor. Bingo. And they have to let Barry Seals out, which did happen. Oh, yeah. And when Barry Seal finally got popped, everyone started, all the rats started to run and try to look out for their own. And eventually that led to Oliver North taking the stand and totally bungling his fucking job on the stand. He was supposed to be like,

"Bro, you're supposed to be the fall guy." And now we just have this huge fucking problem. Yeah. It's wild. Wild. Dude. And these are just one of thousands of stories like this. Yep. Thousands and thousands of stories. Very well documented that originally, originally, you're a fringe reporter, Gary Webb. You're making it all up.

your disgrace and Gary Webb's writing Dark Alliance you can look up his Wikipedia page and Gary Webb exposed how Freeway Ricky Ross was the outlet for all this cocaine and when you and holy shit Freeway Ricky Ross is a crazy story but then I've had him on three times yeah? yeah yeah I had him on recently what an interesting guy right? he's selling weed in LA now legally dude what a full circle he goes from wanting to be a tennis pro to being the number one kingpin of cocaine business mastermind doesn't know how to read

Yeah, illiterate the whole time. Yeah, learned how to read in jail, became a lawyer in jail, and then realized that the three strikes law had been inaccurately applied to him.

Whoa. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah. That's crazy, dude. They applied it to one specific event. It's supposed to be you get arrested three different times for three felonies. Mm-hmm. No, I think that they needed to cover it all up because shit was starting to come out. Well, yeah. Because Gary Webb was starting to fucking... I mean, maybe Gary Webb was after that, but then Gary Webb committed suicide by shooting himself in the head twice. Yeah. It's like, okay, guys. Yeah. Crazy movie about that, too. Yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy. There's so many of these things. It's like...

The idea of a conspiracy theory being a ridiculous fringe thing doesn't hold water anymore. It's like the Jimmy Dorsket. It's like, reading? You mean reading? You should try it. Jimmy's the best. I love Jimmy so much. He was just here. What a legend. He just filmed his new special at the Mothership. Yeah.

Yeah, Jimmy's the best. I love him to death. I've known him from comedy, just from comedy, from back in the day. And then when he was at Young Turks, when he was a leftist. Which he really still holds all those same values. No, he holds it down. You and him are the two guys I point to, and him a little more than you now, of when I'm like, where's the sane left still at? It's kind of like you guys. And Eric Weinstein is a good example, Eric and Brett Weinstein. There's a couple.

But a lot of them have just gone insane. Taibbi's another one. Taibbi's great. I love Taibbi. There's people who didn't cave. Yep. But boy, did they get fucking attacked. Boy, did they have a lot of pressure. Oh, yeah. It's like...

It's so hard to know what's real in the world and unless you have Schellenberger unless you have Glenn Greenwald if you unless you have those people out there That are risking their neck. They're sticking their neck out there that tell you exactly what's going on. This is what funded it This is how it started. Don't let them say any differently. We made an agreement with Russia We did this NATO did that this is what's going on and can't be bought and there's and

It's so important and they've rise now. There's so many of them now and they're coming. It's becoming much more mainstream. And if you look at some of their videos, it's millions of views. And then you find that, you know, MSNBC is getting a fraction of that. And they're, you know, corporate funded, enormous, huge organizations with staff and

And now they're hemorrhaging people. It's wild to watch the mainstream journalists like the MSNBC folk have to leave. Like Joy Reid just left, for example. And when Don Lemon left. They got fired. They can't say left because they didn't want to leave. They got kicked out. But they try to make it in the new media world. And they're just like, you have no value here because you were never good at this job. You were just good at reading propaganda to us. You look good and you got put on camera.

Whereas Tucker Carlson get kicked out and he fucking slays it and he just grows bigger and bigger and bigger. He's not bought and he's not scared. And he actually is good at communicating and interviewing and getting to the truth. And it's so cool to watch this seismic shifting in the industry. Yeah.

Yeah, it's really fascinating. It's a fascinating time. And I think it's good for humans. Oh, yeah. It's good for the human race. It's good. And there's going to be a lot of bullshit out there. There's a lot of stuff that's not true, but that's okay, too. You'll figure it out. Well, the truth will rise. There's too many people that are telling the truth. And there's too much that's undeniable that once you start reading, you start questioning virtually everything. Fun time for two things you guys were just talking about. Oh, yeah. Southern Air Transport.

This is the airline, right? This is the airline used. It came out the same day that they filed for bankruptcy after being in Columbus, Ohio, being used by Leslie Wexner's limited company. Leslie Wexner is deeply tied into those CIA lines. A lot of roads lead back to Columbus, Jamie. Oh, yeah, and it's all because of Leslie Wexner. Let's talk about that a little more. Jamie's got his own conspiracy. Heard that. I'm with you on that. Yeah.

Why? It's wild how many of these, and again, before the internet, this is how they did business. This is why it's so sloppy. It's because before the internet, you didn't have to cover your tracks. You could get away with this stuff. And the thing about the internet that I love that gets me called a controlled opposition all the time is that I love that all of their tactics work perfectly.

Right.

And so there's this element where I'm like, I'm looking at how do you open people's minds? Like, how do you strategize to like get your, because it's a balance, right? Because when I'm reporting on something, it's important to tell the truth. It's important to be accurate and accuracy. If you really dig enough and get enough accuracy that, that reduces entertainment value.

But if you find the way to balance entertainment value with accuracy the right way, which is always a moving target, you can change the world. Like I'm a regular dude two years ago. I was an Uber Eats driver, an ultra marathon running guide. I was like a no one in the middle of nowhere.

And then I'm like, all right, I'll just contribute. And I'll start trying to tell these stories, trying to learn and communicate what's going on. Well, you also have to have a particular knack for it. You do. And you have to be really interested in these things. Interest is the most important part. Very, actually, totally, completely interested in it. I think that a lot of people try to get into, like,

Podcasting and like this internet field these days because it's like what you're supposed to do It's a business, but they don't realize that that's gonna be your job every day for the rest of your life You better fucking love it. Yeah. Yeah Well, you're seeing that with a lot of podcasters where they just they start off and then they fall off because they can't do it because they're not interested Yep, and it's a lot of work and a lot of hassle and there's no guarantee of success. It's like very saturated and it's and you have to actually be Locked in with what you're talking about because if you're not there's too much competition. There's too many people that are locked in. Yep, and

Okay, what do you think is going on with the whole UAP thing? Dude, I love this fucking conversation. I love this fucking conversation. It's the most interesting. I never get tired of it. Do you want to go the angle of like, what are the crafts? Or do you want to go the bigger angle of like, what is the phenomenon? Okay, let's start with what is the phenomenon? I think that right now, science and religion and UAP exposure are all converging on similar truths. And what I mean by that is that

Science. So, you know, the science of consciousness, how we don't really know where the fuck consciousness comes from. Right. But there's a lot of people that start to suggest that it sounds like we're antenna that are receiving consciousness from some sort of consciousness field or some sort of other like. Have you read any Thomas Campbell? No, I don't think so. You should read The Big Toe, Theory of Everything. It's very bizarre stuff. Very hard to swallow. You got to go back and listen to it multiple times. I like that kind of shit. Yeah.

I had him on the podcast and at the end of it, I was like, we got to stop here. Think about everything you said and then we'll bring you back and we'll go deeper because he wanted to keep going and go deeper and deeper. Like he's been living in these realms. It goes and goes, dude. Cause you're talking metaphysics, you're talking physics, you're talking like history and like disclosure about history and dimension. And like, I suspect that whatever consciousness is coming from is this multiverse, this, this consciousness field, this,

ether, this multidimensional thing, whatever. I suspect that's very similar to what UAPs are traversing in and out of and through. And I suspect that's very similar to what we identify as either the gods, plural, the aliens, plural, that have these abilities we don't have, as well as God, God singular, which is probably the highest up above all of those things. I suspect there's a version of all these things that are starting to converge on one truth.

Because when you learn about remote viewing, that's what really cracked it for me was learning how much money the CIA has invested in remote viewing over the years. The CIA is not spending millions and millions of dollars on some crackpot bullshit that's not going to work. They would for a little while, but they've been doing it and doing it and doing it. And now we've got disclosure from people that are coming out whistleblowing that they are doing it today. And I'm in the program and this is how we did it. Have you listened to the telepathy tapes?

I've listened to a few of them, a little bit of them. I've not listened all the way through. I had Kai Dickens on the podcast the other day and she explained the whole thing. Like, provable. Hours and hours and hours of nonverbal autistic kids who have telepathy. Provable telepathy. Undeniable. It's crazy, dude. 100% accuracy. Wild. Yeah.

And I suspect that all of that is... And there's a weaponization of it. I mean, it's not just public study of it. There's definitely been private study of it by the intelligence agencies and probably the weapons developers for a long time. I mean, I was very surprised to hear Elon's answer to your alien question the other day, which I understand that he...

Yeah. Probably couldn't talk about it anyway. That's how I take all of his answers about aliens. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay. Nice try. I had to try. But like, there's no way. I don't ask him about it off air either. Yeah. I don't. I mean, you got to respect a man's like private, like he's got NDAs up the wazoo for that kind of shit. Also, he has top secret military clearance and he runs SpaceX. Bingo. Yeah. I wouldn't say jack shit. And that's where Flat Earth comes in. They're all real. They're very subtle. That's what I would say too. Exactly. Exactly.

And I think that flat earth, a lot of the evidence that gets cited as flat earth, like for example, NASA fakes footage. And if you look into it, it's fucking obvious that NASA is putting out fake footage. They're clearly on wires. And some of that footage, clearly some of that footage is underwater and there's bubbles fucking floating up and shit.

Which footage? Just like NASA publishes all kinds of footage from like the ISS to they have live streams to they do like videos and no one ever watches it because like whoever watches random NASA footage. So you think some of the ISS footage is fake? There's a lot of footage you can find online that has come that is coming from NASA where there's like little slips or like a guy is like they're doing their floating shit and then

the buddy reaches out and grabs where a wire is to help his buddy get back into frame. Like little slips of the mind where they're like just trying to orchestrate. I've never seen any of that. And who knows if it's real or not. I've seen the moon landing footage that looks hokey. Yeah, so all I'm saying is that gets cited by flat earthers as like NASA's covering up flat earth. Okay. And what I'm saying is that there's a lot of reasons why NASA would cover up and produce fake footage from something like the ISS and every single one of them rhymes with aliens.

Because if there's any type of aliens going on up here, it's very possible that they are up there in that fucking space station. What? Or like they could be like, I don't know. And I'm not saying I think they are for sure. I'm just saying that people tend to look at a piece of evidence and jump too quickly on the one explanation that they're sure is right. And sometimes there's other explanations and aliens apply to so many parts of our world like demons. Right.

Sound very much like the UAP phenomenon to me, right? A lot of these religious beliefs sound very much like explainable just with different wording by UAP phenomenon as in some of these aliens we seem to be we seem to be being told that they communicate telepathically they have energetic ability, right? Yeah, I just I'm getting to the point where I'm suspecting that we're gonna have be finding out that religion is like humans trying to interpret these phenomenon over millennia in all the human ways we would and

and telling stories about them. And I'm not saying that God's not real. I'm saying God is real. And...

And that does not diminish God at all. I almost think it makes God more important and more powerful to understand because it, from my understanding, correct me if you have a different one, it sounds like we're getting a lot of reports that are cross corroborating that there's more than one thing going on here. It's not all aliens are the same and it's not, some of them might be us from the future. Some of them might be us from under the water. Some of them might be other species. Some of the, it's really hard to pin down like what all these phenomenon are, but they're definitely not just made up.

And I think some of them are ours. I agree. I think the cover-up is the weird part, though. It's like, if you go back to Operation Blue Book, when they started doing that, the sole purpose of Operation Blue Book is to take any credible story and make it look ridiculous. And they talked about that openly. And then Hynek, when he left...

Blue Book became a believer and started talking about UFOs being real. That's a fucking, that's a big old red flag right there. I mean, the UFO community is filled with people like that that are, and it's really hard to know who's who. It's super hard to know who's who. And did you notice how recently, like the last, a month ago sort of, there was this breaking story that set the whole UAP community on fire about

this disclosure that I think Jeremy Corbo was coming out of whistleblowing on, if I remember correctly, that they were saying that they're gonna blue beam. They're gonna trick us by saying that there's a mothership arriving in three years. Right. Right. Yeah. And it's, and it becomes this thing where it's like, how do you know it? He's saying that he's exposing it, but how do you know if he's exposed? It's just like, it's the ultimate test of, are you skeptical enough? And also open-minded enough and thoughtful enough. Also, if there's a believer, get them some bullshit.

Feed the believer some bullshit. Exactly. They don't even have to know that they're in on it, right? They don't have to know. And it could be like kind of plausible bullshit and it could be corroborated with some other bullshit that you have. I think that's what most bullshit artists are in most fields. I think it's usually useful idiots, like people like myself, genuinely. Like I am in some ways one of those people in the sense that if I get fooled by something, I become that, which is why it's so important to think really carefully and to be okay with being wrong because you never know what your sources are.

Yeah. And that's also why I'm really careful not to do very many like...

or whistleblows or like, because how do I know who the fuck you are? I don't want to spend all the time to try to vet you and find out where you came from and your story came from. I'd way rather just learn. There's so much to learn. One of the weirdest things about Jacques Vallée's work is that Jacques Vallée has been documenting this stuff again, like since I think the 50s or the 60s is when he started, but he's also documented historical stories and the historical stories are

You mean like from before modern times? Like 1700s, 1800s. And these stories are the same story. They're the same story when people never heard of them. Not only that, in the 70s...

He's documenting this woman that in California found an egg-shaped craft in her yard. She tells this story about confronting this being. There's an egg-shaped craft. These fucking egg-shaped crafts all described by people who don't know that someone else has described this story. And no one would ever choose an egg shape when they're describing an aircraft. Right, right, right. Especially back then.

And it's also all telepathic communication. It's all like weird moments. Same stories. Lapse of time, memories confused. You feel like your brain's been erased. Don't know what's going on. You find yourself in a field. How did I get here? There's a lot of weird shit that's like the same story over and over and over again. Too much so that you get, first of all,

Clearly when you're dealing with things in the 17 and 1800s, it's not modern propaganda. It's not the government It's not they're not covering up drones in the 1700s So why are these people saying why these stories in the the fucking Bhagavad Gita? I mean you could make the argument not the body of a Gita But you could make the argument that back then people were writing fiction or wanted attention like those could apply But yeah, I'm skeptical. But yeah, I get down with the ancient

ones like yeah Hancock's of this world I love that was my first conspiracy theory stuff back when I was a leftist as I was just like ancient conspiracy theories let's go it's so compelling the great flood the Randall Carlson's of this world and the way that they kind of talk about and it's so obvious more and more and more that there is a cover-up and Jimmy Corsetti has been really going hard at the issue archaeology lately of nice fantastic right to not just look at the evidence of the old school like the ancient conspiracy theories but actually to just go at the cover-up today and

Because that sometimes is the most effective thing is to just target the cover-up. Mm-hmm.

because that is clear evidence that we're onto something. Who knows what it is? Because of Jimmy Corsetti and his exposure of them planting those trees in Gobekli Tepe, he was one of the first people to say... Yeah, they're changing it. They're pulling those trees out because he was one of the first people to say, hey, those roots are going to damage these ruins. And they're like, no, no, no, it's fine, it's safe. And then they're like, actually, the roots are damaging the ruins. But then you do get people that go all the way to...

the gods, the one, the guy that thinks Nibiru is the fourth planet, the 12th planet or whatever. Zacharias Sitchin. Zacharias Sitchin. And like, there's people that go so far down these ancient conspiracy theory rabbit holes that I feel like we're getting way off track here, guys. Like we're starting to cite sources that are not credible and we're taking it to places where like, yeah, maybe the Anunnaki were here to mine gold and maybe we're, I mean, very plausible that we're all genetically engineered, I think. But there's, there's like a fine line between

between maybe that could be true and those stories are the best though they are the most fun I'm actually I'm planning to write a book that is sort of like a series of books really in my like across my later life that is basically imagine writing a book that is like set in the

You could write ancient books about the old school where if that was book was real, you could still wind up in today's world with all the same evidence we have. And it could be real. Even if back then is crazy magic and there's like all this crazy shit going on. It could still end up with all the pyramids are left over from that. And all the ruins are here after that great flood thing happened. Right. And then you could like write all kinds of crazy conspiracy theory stories into today that like how could you prove that this is not real?

I just think that's the most fun aspect is how much we don't know. Well, the evidence of ancient technology is one of the more fascinating aspects of trying to piece together our past because whatever explanation you try to use to make the pyramids, none of them work. Nope. Not even close. None of them work. None of them work. And even their purpose doesn't make any fucking sense. Clearly they were not tombs. No. I mean, pretty clearly they were some sort of power generation or something like that. Energy. We've seen Christopher...

I've been seeing Timothy, the grandmaster of the Knights Templar guy that's going around on podcasts these days. Timothy someone, someone. Yeah, dude, it's crazy. Chris Dowd, right? Christopher Dowd. So Christopher Dowd is Dunn. Christopher Dunn. Sorry, Chris.

Christopher Dowd is a different guy's last name. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I'm thinking of Mike Dowd from the 7-2, the documentary on the corrupt police department. So what's Dunn's name? Christopher Dunn is all about... Well, he's an engineer, and his theory was that it was a giant power plant. Yep. And he has a very sophisticated gize of the power plant. Very sophisticated. Is he talking about the aquifers underneath them and the two types of stone sort of a thing? He's talking about the physical structure of the way the pyramid was made and that there was... Excuse me. Excuse me.

This subterranean chamber that they used to generate a pounding of vibration that went through the entire structure of the pyramid. It generated this vibration. And they had chemicals that were coming in that were producing hydrogen. He had the king's chamber, the way it's lined up. This is exactly how you do it if you were trying to do this. Everything matches up mathematically. It's fascinating. And they're built on aquifers from the Nile flooding every year. And every year when the Nile floods, water rushes underneath those pyramids.

Through these like stony kind of like porous rocky structures under there It's just there's so many interesting versions of what it could be at the very least it's a mystery and it's also a mystery that shows

fantastic engineering and construction methods and the ability to move rocks and bring them from 500 miles away through the mountains that are 50 tons. Like how? I suspect telepathy of some form. I suspect like alien capability. Do you think it's technology or do you think it's like, well, it's some kind of technology, right? You don't think it could possibly be that aliens have the ability to literally move things with their minds?

I mean, look, if you're dealing with something that can come here from another planet and communicates telepathically, who knows? Who knows? Who fucking knows? But even if it's human beings, let's say it's super sophisticated human beings that lived at the very least 4,500 years ago, because that's the conventional dating of the construction. Even that, you're like...

Yeah. We can't do it today. How? And people that say we can't, sure, we could. It would take hundreds of years. Jimmy Corsetti has done some great videos where he compiles real videos of us moving large objects today. And like the trucks breaking and the cranes falling off of cliffs and all this shit of like, look at how hard it is to move these kinds of rocks. It's crazy. It's crazy. And the idea that they were completed in 20 years, which is the reign of Khufu. Yeah.

It's nonsense. And it's also like these archaeologists are so they're clinging to this narrative because this is what they taught in school. This is what they wrote books about. And then when you look at the conspiracy, the cover up, there's no reason for that level of cover up if it's just a building technology. That's where I start to go. Clearly, that is connected to these UAP technologies, to these free energy technologies, whatever it is. There has to be some sort of reason why covering up how these ancient structures and ancient cultures were built and worked is

Has to relate somehow to something very important and valuable today. I think they also have to somehow or another explain it because to say that it's impossible opens up too many doors and it removes the expert because you're not an expert anymore because you're one of us now. You might know more about that site than I do, but you still don't know what the fuck happened. So you have to claim or at least push it out there.

You're the voice of reason. You're the voice of this is the actual historians. We're the real archaeologists. Don't worry. We've got it covered. I saw a really funny meme the other day that was, it was like four pictures and it was humanity gets really intelligent and invents AI. AI builds all these crazy technologies and pyramids. Sunflare wipes out AI. Humanity restarts.

Yeah, it could be. That's a fair, I mean, how would we know? Or it could be the asteroids that hit or the comets that hit at the Younger Dryas Impact Theory. It is an interesting split in the conversation, right, between the solar flare conversation and the comet impact conversation. Right. And there's like evidence for both. Right, right. It could have been both at once. Could have been both. Or across a period of a thousand years or something. And multiple versions of it. Well, that's the Younger Dryas Impact Theory. They think there was more than one event. They think there was an event around 11,800 years ago and then again around 10,000 plus years ago. Yep.

And this makes sense why civilization sort of emerges 6,000 years ago. Because it's like, we were probably fucking savages for thousands of years. We were probably monsters. I mean, I'd imagine that we only lived inside of sorts of like Elora caves type places for a while, right? Right. Which is nuclear winter. They found evidence of these massive underground structures that they can't explain. Why would someone use their resources to...

In a time of hunters and gatherers to build these underground structures that are fucking insane. Like multiple football fields underground. Entire cities that can house thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And a couple of smart researchers point out really astutely that if you were doing that to hide from other humans, to protect yourself from other humans, you would never dig into a cave system that you could just get drowned in.

Right. You'd never dig into a cave system that has no way out so that you can just get sealed in. Right. That's clearly not, it wasn't to escape humans. You'd have to leave to get food. Bingo. You'd be trapped. Like the Mongols used to like famously sit outside cities for weeks just waiting for people to starve. We'll just wait.

We have plenty of food out here. And that's another example of this exact same phenomenon we're talking about, of these old control systems that work perfectly well in the old era. And now that we have these communication technologies and everyone's getting linked together, it's just the free flow of ideas that just, it's like this natural evolution of consciousness and humanity that we just naturally start to break through those things.

I'm of the mindset that yeah, we can all change the world and yeah, we all, our choices do matter a lot, but also in some ways we're all just part of this cosmic system of like the evolution, like we're all just part of this giant humanity system where we all collectively on balance with all the weird probabilities of all these people, we're going to evolve technology. We were going to industrial revolutionize. We were going to find oil. We were going to discover electronics. We were going to invent AI. It was always going to happen. And this is an era that is always was going to happen. And it,

will happen one way or the other. Like, we affect how it happens. We could go the Whitney Webb dystopian, like they rule us with surveillance everywhere. Or we could go to this great utopia of like everyone has enough and we're all, you know, using technology for the better. Well, I think she's right that that's a possibility. It's a super important one to talk about too. Well, you know, Elon talks about like there's an 80% chance that AI will save us. 20% chance it'll rule us. I do respect how he openly will say that like

Like, yeah, the things I'm inventing could be used for evil. Like the things I'm inventing are dangerous. And we need to be careful and regulate them properly and create them with intention and careful care. I don't know what he's necessarily doing as much as I would hope he's doing to take care with that.

But I'm sure glad it's him and not Jeffrey Epstein, who was deeply interested in all these same technologies. This is a whole other side of him that no one talks about is his interest in technologists and geneticists and all those things, right? Yeah. Well, he had a lot of influence over scientists. That's a creepy move to take scientists and bring them. Throw parties for them, throw conventions for them. And a couple of them, he had a couple of them.

had some serious accusations like Marvin Minsky, for example, but I bet a lot of them were not like compromised, like Stephen Hawking. Everyone freaked out when Stephen Hawking was on the list, but it makes perfect sense as you realize that he was throwing conventions on that island for scientists specifically to bring them all together because that way you get connections, you can get favors, even if you're not blackmailing them, then they just want to be in your, on your good side because you have all these connections and you can fund all their projects and you, you become this integral part of this technology.

technological sort of space. Blackmail's not the only tool. That's a blunt instrument. There's a lot of just connections. He also just hooked people up with wives. Like, do you know that he claimed that he introduced Melania to Trump? Yeah. Yeah, that's a crazy one. I suspect, Melania conspiracy time, I suspect that Melania has been whispering in Trump's ear, I think she was trafficked.

Either bad traffic or just knew Epstein and knew that world a little bit. But I suspect that she's been whispering in his ear about what that really is and does and all that things. Because she's been acting from the back a lot. But when you really dig into what Melania's been doing, she's very...

active in anti-trafficking and in protecting traffic victims and girls and stuff. And as Trump, when he married her and then they have Barron and he's watching his son grow up. So you have this young child and you have this wife telling you about her previous life, probably, and just whispering in your ear that like, this could be your legacy. This could be your legacy. This could be your legacy. Right. Because he used to be friends with those people, even though I don't think he, I don't think he was blackmailed because I think that would have come out when the Democrats were going for him.

And maybe he was involved in the trafficking a little bit because of the things that he bought and the people that he knew and like Roy Cohn connections.

But I don't even know about that. But regardless, he knows the game. And then he marries Melania. And then more and more, like, he was in charge when Epstein went down. He was the only one that when Epstein got arrested and they were going around asking for dirt, he was like, I'll fully fucking cooperate. Fuck that guy. I'll tell you everything that I know. And so I suspect that Melania has been instrumental in his sort of shift to being the only guy willing to go after those traffickers. Out of all the information that's getting disclosed, supposedly this administration...

What do you have the least faith that we're gonna come to a conclusion? For sure. Epstein. And I think it's because of Israel. Really? Because I think, I mean, when you really dig into Epstein, his entire network was Israel. It was clearly. Like Ehud Barak was the ex-prime minister and the ex-head of Israeli intelligence. Leslie Wexner was one of the most powerful pro-Israeli philanthropists. The whole organization was Israel. And I'm not saying it was all...

All of Israel. It was all an intelligence gathering and... And it was targeting Americans. It was targeting American officials and the American president. Right. And the CIA does have interest in those targets, too. Elements in the CIA does. Certainly they had help from the CIA, and certainly they had help from these other organized crime and...

Intelligence operations, but you don't like so for example Dan Bongino the new was the deputy director of the FBI He recently had this clip that went all around where he said on camera that he had a source that he trusted deeply and he's an informed guy He was at Fox News interview and the source told him that Epstein was working for an intelligence agency in the Middle East and I don't know which one but someone in the Middle East and to be fair we all already knew this we all we already know who he worked for I least I think so but

But I'm looking at, okay Dan, so if this giant group of Jewish billionaires is running a sex trafficking operation targeting American politicians and business people and stuff, you think they're working with an Arab or Muslim nation in the Middle East? Like, you think that Leslie Wexner is devoting his entire life to philanthropies on behalf of Israel, but then he's gonna work for Saudi Arabia when he's doing this trafficking run? Right. But if someone says to him that they're all working for a country in the Middle East,

knowing he knows what that means, but not specifying, doesn't he kind of have to repeat it that same way? Well, he also has to repeat it the same way because he won't get the job if he says Israel. Because Israel has so much control over our government right now. And I'm not saying that all Jews are in on something. Clearly. Internet. Thank you. And Joe is definitely not saying that. Definitely not. But Israel's government is every bit as vulnerable to the deep state effect as the American government.

But I would argue that Israel's government is way more vulnerable to it because of the people that founded Israel and the way it was founded. It was founded in a modern time, much more recently by like it was a revolutionary founding. And I can totally sympathize with the Jewish desire to have that state like I get it.

But because of the way that happened, the people that founded Israel were a bunch of organized crime figures in America, the Jewish mob that were helping with money and with arms trafficking to get the guns there because they had to have guns. And it was the Rothschild banking family sending a whole bunch of money and getting the declaration in the first place.

And then the people that were there, the three different organizations, the Irgun, the Lehi group, and the Haganah, those were the three paramilitary groups that fought to found Israel, and they're like the heroes of Israel, which I understand the narrative that they're heroes. But when Israel was officially founded, they officially designated Irgun and Lehi as terrorist organizations.

because they had been bombing civilians. They'd been bombing British civilians. The first official act of terror before they changed the definition was the bombing of the King David Hotel, where these terrorists, these Lehi and Irgun terrorists, a bunch of different groups, the guy who planned that bombing later became the prime minister of Israel.

They were bombing civilians. And and like so those when those are the groups that are fighting to found that nation, even if all the Jews there are wonderful people, the leadership is inherently composed of these people that have been deeply corrupt for all time. And so you get this fertile ground for this kind of deep state effect.

Right.

And what's interesting is you can talk about this now post October 7th. It opened wide open. Post Gaza. You want to know a funny story actually? I didn't know shit about it. And I started doing 9-11 stuff. And I was doing a 9-11 video on my YouTube. And I knew about the dancing Israeli conspiracy theory that is very much a real set of documents.

And I knew that I'm not allowed to talk about Israel for some reason. I didn't really know why. And I realized like, I better fucking understand this thing before I crater my new channel and career on this topic. I don't understand if I'm going to take a stance against Israel at all. I should understand why and how. And so I started doing research and I, I saw, I shelved that research and I switched to researching Israel and Palestine and the history there and what's going on. And I finished the video and it was October 6th. And I was,

was like, I was very worried because it's like, you weren't allowed to talk about it. And I had just made this whole documentary about the history of Israel-Palestine and the propaganda and what it all was. I published on October 6th on my locals channel. And I kind of had this like lean back and like, if that's the end of the ride and I get canceled for this shit, so be it. And then literally the next day, and I'm not saying that October 7th was a good thing, but I'm saying that literally the next day, the entire internet was ablaze about Israel and Palestine and everyone was talking about it. Wow.

And it was the weirdest fucking coincidence. Like, and suddenly it was like, oh, all right, let's fucking dig this thing open. Because unfortunately it is. I mean, I think fortunately, I think that the state, the state of the Israeli influence that, that sustained them for so long, that was essential to them surviving this long.

I think that it has grown cancerous to the Jewish faith in general because Jeffrey Epstein is the perfect example of this. Jeffrey Epstein was the world's most prolific and evil sex trafficker that we know of so far ever.

And he very clearly was a Jewish organization of Jewish people working on behalf of Israel and other groups. And so that's a dark stain on Israel and on the Jewish people if you own it. Like, if you try to defend that, that's not good. You don't want to have to defend that. Right. You want to be free of that kind of shit.

Because the Jewish people don't believe in that. That's not what Jews are. Jews are regular people. It's the deep state of the intelligence agencies in Israel. And the thing about Israel is that Jewish people have every incentive to need to defend Israel, right? Right. Because if I'm a Jew, it's like, of course you have to defend Israel. Like, that's very understandable. It's your people. And you don't want another Holocaust. Like, you don't want another, like...

What do you like? Jews have been in conflict with other people for ages because they are outsiders and because they are so different and because they group up and lots of reasons.

But you don't like as a Jewish person, you're now faced with this choice. Do I stand by Israel always forever for everything and defend everything they do? Or do I get labeled as a self-hating Jew like Dave Smith gets labeled like like Glenn Greenwald gets labeled? Do I stand against all of my culture and do I get ostracized by my family and by my community?

But the problem is that if you have to defend everything that Israel does, you're forced to defend this fucking deep state that is in bed with these organized crime figures. Right. And I would argue that that Israeli deep state is just as much in bed with all the other organized crime as our deep state is, as the Saudi deep state is. There's evil people at the top of all these governments.

Well, the thing is Israel is connected to one race of people. Yeah, it's correct Whereas the United States which also is involved in a lot of really fucked up things all over the world when people think about the United States They don't think about it as one bingo. Yeah. Yep And so it just puts us all in this impossible situation and it's this it's an impossible conversation that we all and I'm glad for it because it's a maturing process and I think we need to do it very delicately and very carefully and thoughtfully and

because Jewish people are people and they're not evil. Like, but there are evil Jewish people and there are evil American people and they're evil Saudi people. And it's just, that's the way it is. Well said. Right. And so, and so I welcome the conversation, but unfortunately the thing for me, fortunately is when I first researched it,

I came across this documentary on Rumble called The Occupation of the American Mind, which is a very well put together documentary that is mostly Jewish people speaking about the history of Israel and about how they realized in the 80s when there was this specific operation where they wound up bombing this refugee camp called Sabra and Shatila, or a refugee camp in a place called Sabra and Shatila. And there was other bombing, like atrocities. It was like, I guess it was a massacre, it wasn't a bombing.

And it was the first time where Western journalists had taken video cameras over there and video feed were coming back of the conflict of what was happening. And American sentiment turned really harshly against Israel in the 80s there. And they realized we don't need to win just the kinetic war.

We need to win the ideological war on the global scale, because if we don't win that ideological war, the whole world will turn against us and call us a colonial project, which I would argue they kind of are. But that's not the point here. And I don't mean to say I'm necessarily right about my perspective on that. But.

That's when they switched to a propaganda war and they started targeting the United States with propaganda and they hired the world's top propagandists to teach Israelis and Israeli military officials and government officials how to communicate with the West and how to propagandize the West so that we would remain independent.

In the dark a little bit. That's why we have this veil and this anti-semitism thing and this like all that It's why you're not allowed to talk about it because it evolved over time and they eventually Howard they hired this guy that I think is called Howard Luntz and Luntz worked with the Israel project There's a report online that came out in 2009. I think called the Israel the Israel language dictionary the Israel

American language dictionary. And it's basically a word for word. This is how you discuss the rockets raining down. This is how you discuss the settlements. This is how you discuss the occupation and the palace and all these things.

And they use examples of words that work and words that don't work. And when you read it, you realize like, holy shit, that's exactly what politicians have been saying on TV my entire life. And they use Obama as one example of really good words that work. You should talk like Obama because he's good at sort of empathizing with the other side and making us understand that like we're here for peace and they're the terrorists and everything.

And I say that to mean that we live inside this propagandized space because it's been essential to them for so long to protect that image in order to continue the deep state element of what they're doing. When I would argue that we would all be much better off if BBB,

BB was fucking not there and we had a more sane person in charge of Israel that was actually there for peace and not there for whatever the fuck BB is doing well we could start to heal this thing and talk about it and most people in general public aren't even aware that the Israeli people were protesting against Netanyahu before October 6th he's about to get kicked out hundreds of thousands of people in the streets and that it had been going on for a long time hundred percent yeah I suspect

I'm hoping I'm not blowing the lid on Trump's idea here. I kind of suspect that Trump is kind of in on a coup against Netanyahu right now. This is just my theory based upon the way he talked about like occupying Gaza and the way he's friends with Jared Kushner and the way he's friends with the Adelson's. I suspect that these powerful Jews like the Adelson type people are starting to realize that Netanyahu is powerful.

is kind of sinking this ship and he's kind of fucked it all up. And it's not going well for Israel in the public conversation. Like I can, I can ratio just about anyone I want on Twitter over the Israel thing because the public sentiment is just shifting and it's not, it's not healthy for anyone, for Jewish people or anyone else. And I had suspect that the powerful Jewish people are starting to see that and are starting to scheme on how do we fucking get Netanyahu out of there and put someone in that, that can actually be, move us towards some sort of,

peace because without a genuine desire for like Netanyahu is on fucking camera saying that they have propped up Hamas in the Gaza Strip because they don't want a real government in the Gaza Strip because it's far better for them to run this occupation and to eventually take the land if Hamas is I mean I'm that's not an exact quote

Everyone should look that up for themselves. But not just propped up, but funded. Exactly. Yeah. And intentionally kept there. Just when you hear that, you're like, well, what's the logic for funding Hamas? What logic? Well, it's the exact same logic as us funding the Taliban. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the exact same logic. It's the exact same strategies. Did you see that? God, I wish I would remember where it was happening, where someone had to say, are we really sending the Taliban $40 million a week? Yeah. We were. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And it happens over and over and over again. We're just sending money willy-nilly to all these, like Ukraine, Israel, Taliban, you name it. And those are just a small spatter. We've done it across the whole world, Indonesia, Central and South America. And we've been doing it that way forever. Forever.

Ever. And it's this playbook of the deep state is a funny term. I think it's kind of time to retire it because it's not the deep state. It's like this corporate, like transnational corporate criminal organization space where transnational corporations like the banks, like JP Morgan, Jamie Dimon, they were banking Jeffrey Epstein.

They don't answer to us. They're not American. They don't give a shit about America. Like they give a shit about money and power and they're legally required to, because they're a public corporation. That's a whole black rock. Yeah. We can go down. It's crazy. And so like, when you look at it as, as,

People who have this globalist and actually that's why people shit on Alex Jones for saying globalists like all the fucking anti-Jew people are like just say the Jews and it's like no dude like there's way more going on here and the and the tie that binds all of them together the Klaus Schwab's of this world the Jeff Bezos is the and I don't know maybe Jeff's a good guy I don't know.

But like the people that don't think in terms of these are my people and I love them, but rather I'm like a piece of this global community of billionaires that like our job is just to make money and fucking control the world. Like Bill Gates is a great example. They live outside of our world and they do not give a shit if COVID kills 10,000 people or 100,000 people or 10 million people, whatever. And I'm generalizing because obviously they are individuals and they each have their own perspective on what's going on. But it feels to me from researching, there's enough of them that are evil.

That they're fuck doing some horrible things and the ones that are a little less evil. Maybe they know what they're in on Maybe they only know some of it because you don't have to disclose everything in these kinds of plans like for example in a CIA plot to overthrow the government of Guatemala You're not telling everyone the whole plan. They didn't tell Smedley Butler. No, I didn't tell him shit They told him that like this they told him that they were gonna overthrow a communist that was already taking over the what like

I think they probably told him that he was a Jewish communist because they think they were riding on like FDR's second in command was Henry Morgenthau Jr. And he was deeply aligned with the Jewish, like the rich Jewish kind of powers in the world at that day. And there was a lot of anti-Jewish sentiment back then. And so I suspect that they told Smedley Butler that like this guy is a fucking Jewish plant and he's part of the Rothschild thing. And like we need he's a communist. We need to overthrow him.

And Smedley didn't buy it. Smedley collected fucking research on them and he went to FDR and he exposed the whole plot. But the problem was that FDR couldn't do anything because these people, titans of industry, like the Bushes of the world, the Fords, I don't even know all their names at this point. It's been a while since I did that dig. He couldn't do anything. And so nothing happened. He couldn't charge them because they just said, you just got out of the Great Depression. We will fuck your economy up.

Done. Done. There's so much power. Let's bring this to a fucking halt. Yeah. Enough. You freak me out. The rest of my day is ruined. I already blew the whole thing up, dude.

Thank you very much, man. Let's real quickly, though. Be clear. Joe does not agree with everything that I just said on this podcast. I can't believe what you said. Yeah, Joe doesn't know shit, okay? I am so upset that I even platformed you. This is Ian Carroll speaking. You're outrageous. And also, like, I'm perfectly willing to have a conversation about this. Like, I don't know that I'm right about everything. I just know the sources I've read

and where I've read them, and I try my best to figure out where they are. You're very reasonable. Very reasonable in the way you do this, and I think it's a valuable service. So thank you very much. Thanks. It was a lot of fun, too. It was very enjoyable. Tell everybody how they can find you. Yeah. Find me on X, Ian Carroll Show, and I have a new website that just launched, which is CancelIanCarroll.com. So cancel me, bitches. Perfect. Come at me. Bye, everybody. Bye.