#2316 - Cameron Hanes
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast. How's it going on? Not much. Hello, Joe Rogan. Hello, Cameron Haynes. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. This is my first time trying one of these new energy drinks that Black Rifle came out of. Have you tried them? They're good? I have. They're legit? Really good. Everything they do is legit. Yeah, really good. That's legit.

Mango. What do you think? So this is the part of the podcast where I try to talk you out of running a 250-mile race with a broken foot, you fucking maniac. We're talking about my book. The whole point of this was undeniable. Well, you'll definitely be undeniable if you run 250 miles with a broken foot. Yeah. Why are you doing that? That seems like not a good idea. But what am I, a doctor? Yeah.

Okay. So, so real talk, let's just, we'll break it down. So if I was a professional athlete in my prime, right. It would obviously make sense to say, and I need to get surgery. My foot's broke. I can't perform whatever. But since I'm, we know how old I am almost 60. It's just like, there's no guarantees. I'm like, if I can fight this off and still whatever, still perform, then I'm going to do that.

I can't afford to play the long game. Can I? Fix your foot. It's like, I don't understand. Like, this is what I've always said with people with jujitsu injuries because I've had a bunch of surgeries. Yeah. Just fix it. Just do it. Because a day will be a week, will be a month. It'll happen so quick. Before you know it, it'll be six months. You're back in the gym. Just do it. That's what I always tell everybody. Just fix it. Yeah. I just bite the bullet. Get the cert. Like, there's certain things like...

Certain things I don't think you should get surgery for because there's things that you could rehabilitate. And there's sort of an –

There's some doctors, I wanna be real careful about this, 'cause a lot of doctors are very cautious about whether or not they do surgery. But there's some doctors that are just a little too excited to cut people open and stitch them back together again. - Well, it's how they make their money. - It's how they make their money. And famously, I've talked about it too many times, but for people who haven't heard the story, my doctor told me, "For sure, you're gonna need shoulder surgery. "You're gonna have to get shoulder surgery. "It's just a matter of when, and if you put it off, "it'll probably get worse."

Have zero problem with that shoulder now. I got stem cells in it from Roddy McGee in Vegas You went with the end of that place went back in six months. He's like the tear is completely gone So I could have gone under the knife and maybe he would have done a great job and fix it Apparently he did the Lakers and a bunch of pro athletes and I thought that but they don't entertain

the possibility that there's other ways to fix things. But when it comes to broken bones and torn ligaments, like if your ligaments, like I have a bunch of friends who have ACL tears, complete ACL tears, no ACL, and they still do jujitsu.

I'm like, dude, you're just grinding up your meniscus, the shit that you're going to need for the rest of your life. And take it from me, a 57-year-old man who loves jiu-jitsu, you can't do that. You need that stuff. Like, that stuff's going to go away, and then it'll be bone on bone, and then you're going to be, like, in agony all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Theoretically. Theoretically. Theoretically.

Just get it fixed. I always say, just get it fixed. Get it fixed. Before you know it, it'll be fixed. Yeah, but I keep thinking about it. So if I would have done it, so I broke it last June, but all the things I did from last June to now, I've got accomplished, still got it done, made it happen. Yeah, it hasn't been that fun. Okay, don't fix it ever. Just live with a broken foot forever. That's retarded. It doesn't make any sense. It makes zero sense. This is reverse psychology, isn't it? Good.

Good, yeah. No, don't do it. Good job. Break the other one, too, so it balances out. That's the problem is that you only have one broken foot. If you just take a hammer to your right foot or your left foot, then you'll have no problems. Well, we'll know. Well, I'm sure you're going to get through it.

I'm positive you're going to get through it, but it's just like, why are you doing that to yourself? Next Monday at 5 a.m., 250 miles. Which one is that? What's the race called? And your mark is set, go. Cocodona 250. Where is it? Is it elevation? It's elevation.

It's Arizona, so it goes from, I think, Black Canyon City to Flagstaff. Is it flat the whole way, or is it... No. 40,000. Oh, 40,000 feet, nothing. Or maybe 30,000. I don't know. A lot of climbing. Just a tiny amount. Oh, look. Fucking mountains. We could...

No, there's lots of mountains. Is that the... Yeah, it's right there. Cocodona 250. Bro, that's so ridiculous. Yeah, it looks beautiful, though. That's so ridiculous. You're going to do that with a broken foot. Yeah. So after you did that, here's the next logic. Well, if I could do 250 miles, I can make it through elk season. And then, yeah, you're not going to get it fixed. I just did it with a broken foot in elk season. I know. That's what I'm saying. You're not going to fix it. You're not going to fix it. Well...

If I get back to the corner and I can't walk. Oh, boy. But then the problem is, what if you've done permanent damage? Like, didn't you say your hamstring's bothering you now because you're compensating? Yeah, this whole leg. And you're going to run 250 miles with a fucked up hamstring. Great idea. That's not going to fuck it up worse. Maybe it'll fix it. This is supposed to be a feel-good discussion.

I thought friends, BSing, right? Everybody has a good time here. The most influential man in the world, Time Magazine, should have been. No, Meghan Markle beat me. If it's most influential, there...

There should be no, there's no debate. Nobody's even in the same category as you. I don't know. I don't think about it. I try not to. It's a little complicated. I'm thinking about it. I really shouldn't be influential. I don't think hard enough about the consequences. Oh, you say that all the time, but man, you, you have so many good conversations and it's like, it's definitely changed. Here's what's crazy is,

you know, mainstream media with all the money that the advertisers had to pay or whatever. It's like, that was, that was our thing. Now that feels like that money is coming to the podcast realm because of you. I mean, you've shown the power of podcast and I think all the podcast hosts are benefiting from that. What do you think? Well, I think we are all benefiting from all of our work. I mean, I don't think it's me. I'm, you know, I just have been doing it longer than most, you know, but there's guys like Corolla and a few other guys that have been doing it longer than me.

You know, it's just Podcasting is just better because there's less people involved It's really that simple the problem with stuff like Fox News and CNN is there's too many people involved in too many interests, right? You have the interests of the network you have the interests of the sensors you have a bunch of people that you know don't want you talking about certain things or want you talking about certain other things like they want you to push certain narratives there's too many people and

And so it feels curated. And so when you're listening, it doesn't resonate. But when you listen to two people just shoot the shit, you're like, oh, I know what that's like. Like if someone came over to your house and started talking like a CNN anchor, you'd be like, what the fuck is this guy doing in my house? Get him out of here. I can't relax. We're trying to have a glass of wine. How would he talk?

What we've learned today is that climate change is the most important... You'd be like, oh God, get this guy out of the fucking house. What are you saying? So Douglas Murray is going to come over to my house, it sounds? Have you ever been...

Yeah. I mean, it's just there's people that are professional talking heads. You know, like there's people that are professional sportscasters. You know, they talk like a sportscaster voice. Right. Howard Cosell. Radio DJ voice. Radio DJ voice. Yeah, exactly. Top 40 DJ voice. It's like they're all the same. Coming up next. All right. You know, like that kind of weird thing that they do where you're...

You're used to it. It sounds professional, but it doesn't resonate with you, so it doesn't seem normal. When you hear people, whether it's you or me or Theo Vaughn or Andrew Schultz or whoever it is that's doing a podcast, they're just people talking, normal people talking to people, and that's what people want. And if a normal person can talk to scientists –

And say, how does that work? What causes this? What can I do to make this happen? What's the best way to start your day? That kind of shit. Then it makes sense to the people. If you hear some fucking weirdo that's talking in a way that doesn't make any sense and won't bring up certain subjects and has guardrails and won't use certain language...

it doesn't make sense to you so you're not it doesn't work as well and also like they don't trust those people like if i tell you oh this black rifle coffee drink is good i'm not lying i wouldn't lie if i was like evan what the is this if i drank it i was like bro we would call evan up right now we'd call him up on speakerphone until this mango tastes like ass yeah probably not but

But I'd tell them privately. But it wouldn't. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know all their shit is great. Their coffee's great. Everything's great. It's like everything, all the ads we have. Like, I had a call yesterday, one of these conference calls that I have.

Where I got to go, no, no, not that one. No, we can't do that. It was like different ads. Like, what is it? No, no. Like, I just, something that sounds like wrong to me. I'm not interested. I'm not, that might be a scam. This might be horse shit. What's the studies on this? Is it real? Like, what do we, nah, no, no, no. Like, oh, or yes. Oh yeah, I use that all the time. Let's do that. That's good. That's a solid company. That's this. This is great.

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Yeah, I wonder if I don't even know how to word it, but people are so used to like the fake stuff. Like even even if somebody says if you talk about being transgender and say, oh, well, you know, this boy felt like a girl, whatever. It's like you're almost programmed to be like, oh, OK. Yeah. You're programmed to not have an opinion. Right. And so in that and because normally as guys work.

We talk about radio DJ voice or the fake or whatever. That's not how people talk. But guys can be around a certain group of people, and there'll be one guy, you'd be like, that guy seemed off. Yes. What the fuck's wrong with that guy? Right. Some guy will infiltrate your group. That's like a subtle little thing. That's not like the things we're talking about, like the big things. That's like these guys have this radar, and you're just like, who the fuck is this guy? Right, right, right, right.

And then you go to the complete other realm where it's so preposterous and we're supposed to be like, oh, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I actually heard a psychologist discussing this and he said that there's an issue with talking about things publicly, especially with social media because there's so much backlash on social media whenever you hit any hot button topic, immigration, politics, anything that's like a real highly hotly contended topic.

People will say things just so they don't get attacked. And they distort their opinions based on how much they think they're going to get attacked. So all that social media stuff is super effective. People...

People attacking people is super effective for people to like this is how transgender people in sports got through The only way it got through us because people were calling people bigots. Yeah, every parent every fucking parent Who's not a complete psychopath?

Doesn't want their daughter wrestling with some boy who thinks he's a girl. That's crazy. Playing rugby with some boy who thinks he's a girl. That's crazy. Have a 6'6", 50-year-old man who identifies as being a 17-year-old girl. That's fucking crazy. But you can't say that's crazy or your feed will be bombarded with a bunch of sociopaths attacking you.

for being transphobic. Or it'll be suppressed. Or Instagram will be like, okay, guess what? We don't like that opinion. Nobody's going to see it. I think Instagram is doing less of that now, allegedly, supposedly. I know X is not interested in that at all. They're not suppressing that shit at all. You can talk all the shit you want about trans people in sports now because...

The reality is the general population – look, I don't care what you want to do. If you want to wear a dress, you want to be called Rhonda, go for it. Have fun. I'm a freedom person. Right. And I believe America is the land of the free. And that includes doing dumb shit. That includes things that I don't agree with but don't hurt me or anybody else.

Go have fun. Right. But as soon as you start doing things like entering into women's bathrooms, entering into women's locker rooms, and all you have to do is just say you're a guy. Mm-hmm.

Now we're in crazy town. And if I can't say we're in crazy town, that's how all that stuff got through. It's because Twitter was complete nonsense. It was just a psyop. The whole thing was just a psyop. We all owe Elon Musk a huge debt.

When he bought Twitter, he changed the conversations in the country because all of a sudden people were free. You could say what you want. You were free to say whatever you wanted. Yeah. Before you couldn't say anything bad about Biden or the liberals or COVID vaccines or anything. You would be banned. You'd be banned. Yeah. That's, you know, that Elon coming, doing what he's done.

Has changed has definitely changed the world right out of doubt I mean has and how much credit does he deserve because he did not have to do that I mean he had more money than anybody Why would he do why would he put himself out there like that other than to make a positive change for humanity? Well in talking with him both publicly and privately he was genuinely concerned that we were losing free speech and

He was genuinely concerned that it was being hijacked. It was being hijacked under the guise of safety. Safety. Like, we have to protect people. We have to protect marginalized people. Like, marginalized male perverts who want to wear dresses and pretend they're a girl and go in the back. Literally. Literally. Right. You know? And...

That's dangerous with that, but it's also dangerous with everything else. It's also dangerous – like if you're a person who's a progressive person who believes in gay rights or anything – welfare, universal basic – whatever it is. Imagine living in a world where there's no free speech but the republicans are in control.

Or like super religious conservative people are in control or they're

Muslims are in control. Let's imagine like the the Muslim population in this country is expanding all the time They've got Muslim run cities now. They have call to prayer in certain cities in this country Imagine that goes everywhere They're in control of social media and they institute Sharia law on social media and they want to throw gay people off the roof This is where it goes like you gotta leave people the fuck alone. Yeah

You gotta let them say whatever they wanna say and if you don't agree with them, don't follow them or make an argument against it. It's really that simple. That's what America's supposed to be and it wasn't that way for four fucking years. During the Biden administration, the FBI was involved in Twitter.

The government intelligence agencies were involved in Twitter. They were telling people to take down true information and they were getting them to do it and they were doing it. How crazy is that? Crazy. People should be up in arms that that took place. Like the Hunter Biden laptop thing. You should be you should be freaking out. How'd they get 51 former intelligence agencies to sign up agents to sign off on something they knew was a lie?

Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. They just did it right in front of our face. And no repercussions. Nothing. It's nothing. How does that how does it happen? But then also, how is there no repercussions? Well, what's really hilarious now is now they're all getting grilled by even like liberal media is grilling these politicians like, did you know Biden was out of his mind? Right. Like, how did you know? Yeah. Like Elizabeth Warren was like he was sharp as a tack. Oh, he was getting up for meetings. I've seen him better.

I heard that too. It was like Joe Scarborough. Yeah. It was like, this is the best version of Biden I've ever seen. Like you should be literally in jail. God. Such a liar. You almost like shifted the whole, imagine if Biden stayed in, they lied about that. And then he's literally like a zombie for four more years. And whoever the hell was running the country for the last four years just continues to run it. And then they just tighten up even further. Could you imagine? Cut,

down. And Marc Andreessen was telling me about debanking, which I didn't even know existed, where people that had certain political donations and political persuasions, they would take their banking away.

They did no crime. They just say, you can't bank here anymore. You got to go find another bank. And there's only like a few banks. They're all owned by giant mega corporations. Like, what the fuck are you doing? Well, that kind of reminds me of what happened in Canada with the truckers. Yes. I mean, they froze their bank accounts. Yeah. Or people who donated to them. Yeah. People who donated to them got their bank accounts frozen. How insane. Insane. Yeah.

Insane. And then that same party just won again. Good job, Canada. Good job.

If they didn't have good bear hunting, I would never be. I do have to say I offered to have that Pierre guy come on the podcast. Really? Didn't do it. Wouldn't do it. Thought it was too problematic or whatever. Jordan told me. I forget what he said, but they were telling him not to do it. Like his advisors were telling him not to do it. Hey, hey, hey, dumbass. They can't talk to you and have a conversation. Hold up. It's not. You're not grilling. You're not attacking people. Of course not. This is like a safe spot.

you know, the friend zone type thing. It's like, nah. And I heard you talk about Kamala saying, just want to get to know her. Just want to talk to her. 100%. I said, if there's certain things they didn't want to talk about, I don't need to talk about them. I don't care. I'm like, I could talk to you about fucking AI. You've never been the gotcha guy.

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I don't attack people. As I've gotten older and wiser in life, I want less conflict. I mean, sometimes you have to be able to disagree in a way that's forceful. But I don't want – I'm never insulting or attack people. Right. And especially this Pierre Polivet guy because – I don't know how to say his name. How do you say it? I have no idea. It's a weird way of saying it. Polivet. Polivet.

I would just ask him questions like, what's wrong? What's wrong with Canada? Like, how did this happen? Why did it go this way? What can be done to reverse some of these things that have been put into place? Like, how did you feel about this? What would you have done differently? Yeah. Real simple stuff. Yeah. Real simple. I don't know anything about Canada's politics. Right. You know? It'd be interesting. Yeah. I'd love to hear it. It would have been fun. Yeah. But, you know, people are just...

And this is also why the attacking of people on social media is effective. Like the same thing that keeps people from saying things because they're worried that they're going to be attacked also keeps people from talking to certain people because they're worried about they're being attacked. You know, they'll try to like this is one of the things that I felt like Douglas Murray was doing when he was on the podcast was like trying to gatekeep who I have on. Like, why would you have this person on? Why would you have this person on?

He never even listened to that guy Darryl Cooper's podcast like I would tell everybody forget about the politics stuff Listen to his stuff on Guyana listen to his stuff on Jim Jones the Jim Jones series and this is an hour Fucking incredible doesn't he do like hours long discussions? Yeah fear and loathing in New Jerusalem is something like 30 hours long. Mm-hmm insane stuff but

He's a really thoughtful person and he delves into all the areas. Let's look at this from the perspective of the people who are in the cult. Look at it from Jim Jones' perspective. Look at it from the nation of Guyana where he moves there with his fucking cult and kills everybody with Kool-Aid. I didn't think it was Kool-Aid. I think it was like a –

bargain name it was like some fake kool-aid yeah we don't they call it just sue us people always say drink the kool-aid but i do google that because i'm pretty sure it wasn't really kool-aid aid it was something else too expensive to kill everybody with top shelf kool-aid yeah it's a lot of sugar you got to put in kool-aid by the way everyone used to make kool-aid and it's like what was like a cup of sugar oh yeah oh yeah yeah and then you throw those stuff in there

Burt Crusher drinks that all day long. It's like a 64-ounce jug of Kool-Aid. He was shredded. No, he wasn't. He was more shredded than he is now. Yes. Yeah. But he's real big right now. I was just talking to him the other day. I was like, dude, you got to do something. Maybe Flavor-Aid. Flavor-Aid. Might have been from- Cheaper. Yeah. So that was from Costco. Yeah. They got it in bulk. Flavor-Aid. There it is. Kirkland. Kirkland.

Yeah. What does it say? Ho-your-aid? What does it say? Flare? What is it? Flay? F-L-A-4-aid. Flay-vore-aid. Oh, that's an F? Make it larger?

Oh, it's blurry. Probably. Oh, there it goes. Oh, there it goes. Yeah, Flavor Aid. Okay. Flavor Aid. They killed everybody with Flavor Aid. Jesus. They're mixing it up. Poison has got to be the fucking worst way to go. Just feeling your body just getting destroyed from the inside out. Terrible. For some jackass who's on meth. It's a crazy podcast. But this is my point. Like-

What they're trying to do is keep people, keep these heterodox opinions, keep people that are like outside of the circle of expertise from talking about things. Even if they've read like Darrell Cooper's read like hundreds of books. The guy's like a fucking consummate reader and you might disagree with him about something. That's fine. You should. That should be OK. OK, to disagree with people about stuff. Yeah. And also, what is learning?

I mean, what is learning? So you said he read, he did all this research. Douglas Murray has a problem with I don't know who. But what is how is that different than going to school, essentially? Right. I mean, it's no different. It's no different. I mean, there are experts that stop learning the moment they get their degree.

And that's real. Yeah. And it's a real problem. It's a real problem in medicine. You know, I had an argument with Brian Callen years ago because his doctor was telling him, you don't need supplements. You just need a balanced diet. That's what his doctor was saying. I go, your doctor looks like shit. Like, what are you talking? Your doctor's fat.

He's got a big pot belly. He's got a big doughy face. He probably can't run around the block. Shut the fuck up. Don't listen to that guy. There's plenty of peer-reviewed papers that talk about the efficacy of vitamins. They're super beneficial for you. This is crazy talk. This appeal to experts. Just because you have a degree, you're not always right. You're wrong all the time. Yeah.

Yeah, that was pretty disappointing because I thought Douglas Murray, I liked listening to him. I thought he was super smart, obviously very articulate. But he sounds so good with that accent. But then on that one, I think I told you, or I texted you something about, man, he seemed pompous. That seemed like that took a big, for me, it was a loss for him big time. Well, he used tactics rather than facts. So the tactic was an appeal to experts like experts.

And there was also saying that the coverage was imbalanced because they didn't have enough people that were pro-Israel. But then I thought about it afterwards. I'm like, I had quite a few. There was Jordan, Ben Shapiro. There was Coleman Hughes. There's been quite a few people that are pro-Israel. And not even that people are anti-Israel. They just don't want to watch people get blown apart all the time. That seems pretty reasonable. But instead of debating –

How this is done and what is being done militarily it all became about like who are the experts and what are that? What are the things that should be discussed and should it be balanced and do you have an obligation like that's not what we're here for What we're here for is to get down to business So what he's doing is like putting you on the defensive right away the gate. Yeah, which is like I recognized I'm like, okay. No, you're perfect. You're a perfect fit

the perfect person to handle that. Because most people, when they start getting attacked, you get defensive, you attack back. It just changes the whole dynamic of the conversation. But you stayed pretty neutral on that. It's a trap. Yeah. It's a trap. It's like, you know,

You know, when someone gets in your face and they start yelling in your face, like, okay, what are we doing? Are we fighting? You know, I could, like, start yelling, too. Yeah. And then maybe I won't be... That's usually what happens. Yeah, and then maybe I won't be paying attention to your hands, you know, or your shoulder movement. Distracted. Or whether or not you're going to hit me. Yeah. See, that's a tactic. That's a fighting tactic. Yeah, 100%. He had the same tactic, but not for fighting, but for conversation. Yeah, it's a tactic, you know? And then the thing of asking Dave, you've never been. Like, to dismiss...

Instead of having a debate on the issues. And this idea that experts... Douglas Murray, I love him dearly. I think he's a brilliant man.

He's got a degree in history. Or, excuse me, he's got a degree in English. Bachelor's degree. Okay, he's not an expert either. Unless we're talking about Shakespeare. Shut the fuck up. Because you're not an expert either. You know what I mean? I don't have a degree in anything. I have zero degrees in anything. But there's certain things that I'm an expert in. You want to talk about martial arts? I'm a martial arts expert. Like, if you disagree with me, you have to be like...

In order for me to have a conversation with someone where they disagree with me about martial arts, they have to be so much better. They have to be like Gordon Ryan. Right. But I don't disagree with Gordon on anything. For him, that's a real expert. Again, no degrees. That's a real expert. I would just ask questions like, what do you do in this situation? What's the benefit of this versus that? And so you talk about it. Mm-hmm.

With these political issues, they're so – such a third rail. It's such a fucking dangerous subject that people have like a group that they belong with and then that group will support them if they go out and say these ideas and then the other people have another group and then this person is a representative of one group and they want to duke it out with the – any reasonable person would look at Gaza and go, this seems kind of excessive. Yeah.

This seems kind of fucking crazy. Right. It seems kind of crazy that 70,000 people or whatever it is are dead, including women and children. This is the only way to do it? Really? Any reasonable person. That doesn't make you anti-Semitic. It doesn't make you anti-Zionist. It doesn't make you anything. It doesn't make you pro-Hamas. It could be pro-human. Yeah, human beings. I don't think humans should be murderers.

Yeah. There's like that sounds so reasonable. But the thing is, like, we never got into that because the conversation tactically, he entered into the conversation as, you know, because he doesn't have really a defensible position. It's very hard to say this is the only way to do it. Yeah. So what do you say? You say you need better experts. You shouldn't be talking to this person. You should be doing this. You should be doing that. Like, why don't you have this? You've never been there. You should go there. Like, bitch, I am.

not going there. What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even going to Brazil for another UFC fight. Yeah, exactly. I don't go to Canada. Not traveling out of the country. It's like, you know, it's not what I'm interested in doing. I don't have to. Well, what's crazy is so he had that take about unless you're an expert or educated you shouldn't be able to share this opinion but he'd had the opposite take

Oh, yeah, which is hilarious because somebody put a video up of him arguing with him completely opposite. So that and I must I don't I asked you about this, not with him, but I asked you, do you think there's like government plans? Because it's like if somebody I'm not saying him, I'm just saying just in general, if somebody changes their position so much.

I don't know. I know. It's hard to know. Who got to them and why did this happen? Because then I look around, we talk about the power of podcasts and I see these podcasts and it's just like, how did this podcast get every guest you could ever want and rise to the top in a heartbeat? When we know how it normally works, it works like you.

decades, right? To get to the top. Then some people, so I'm thinking like, how did this happen? Well, some people are really good, you know, and they can be really good right out of the bat.

Right off the bat, they could be better at it, and then they get a good following, and then once it gets into the top 20 or whatever, then they can get good guests. Because when it comes to- But that usually takes time. Sometimes. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I wonder what would happen if I started the podcast today.

If there was all the podcasts that were out right now and I had never done a podcast and I started today and I did it exactly how I'm doing it. How long would it take before it catches on? I don't know. I don't either. I would suck though. That would be a problem. I would suck and everybody would be watching because I sucked when nobody was watching and I got better at it. I figured out how to do it.

But as far as like Douglas, I don't know if anybody got to him or whether or not the group that he associates with thinks this way. I don't necessarily put everything inside of a grand conspiracy. It might be that he has financial ties towards certain things.

You know, like he speaks at certain places. He sells certain books. He knows how he's selling them. I mean, or it might be just that's how he thinks about things too. Sometimes people always think like, oh, somebody got to him. Like maybe that's just how he thinks. Yeah. Somebody has to think that way. Otherwise, that wouldn't be an opinion that's out there in the zeitgeist. Normally, people don't switch 180 degrees on things though. Especially like that. Yeah. I mean – That's true. That's true. Because –

Because if he's educated on things, if he's been around, if he's, you know, the smart, wise person, you form this opinion based on that. You don't go 180 degrees the other way.

And change complete the complete opposite take. Right. Unless you've been influenced. It wasn't like you were just a kid and you didn't know. And now all of a sudden you're an adult. It's like, I can't believe I used to say that he was an adult the whole time. Right, right, right, right. So how? I don't know. You know, it's you definitely could get suspicious for sure.

But you know, I hear people say that about me too, which is hilarious. But I said that I have like CIA handlers. I've heard all that. Decades, dude. You've been doing this. Yeah. You're the OG. I'm one of the OGs. That's how it works. Yeah. I think for sure people do get influenced, but I think people also allow themselves to get influenced because they have a financial interest in keeping a certain opinion because they know that the group that they belong to.

Has that certain opinion. There's that. But the real problem with doing what he did was that it diminishes you publicly. Like if you really want to do that kind of a debate, if you really want to use those kind of tactics rather than a discussion of the issue, like you've never been like that kind of stuff diminishes you publicly because everybody knows what you're doing. Yeah. Instead of just having a conversation. Yeah. Okay. Anybody with a.

Anybody with an opinion I value knows what you're doing. Because if you understand conversations, you understand that you're not really engaging with the ideas. You're deciding whether or not a person should have these ideas or be able to. You've never been there? How can you have an opinion? At least you should do the courtesy. Now I'm virtuous. I have been. I'm elevated. I'm better than you. You are diminished. You haven't even been there. Your opinion is basically meaningless.

Yeah. You know, and then it gets to this weird place where it's like, who's allowed to talk about what? You know, that's that's what it just the change was so abrupt. It's so opposite. I was just like, because you could think if somebody was. OK, here's an example. I had somebody offer me today. Not today. Yesterday. If I would wear their hat. Five thousand dollars. So with the hat and a bunch of dicks on it. Yeah.

It was just a brand. But, uh, but so point is, uh,

There's value into doing this. So if somebody says, well, your voice is this powerful or you can reach this many people or this many people listen to you. So if it's a political party or a movement and they have this guy, we'll pay you this much to push this point. UFC 315 is almost here. We've got two title fights with Muhammad versus Della Maddalena and Valentina Shevchenko and Manon Fiora.

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It's possible. It's also possible that he views a guy like Dave Smith as sort of a dangerous upstart.

Dave Smith has incredible recall and he's very well read. I mean, he's a consummate consumer of information and he's always reading books on different wars and foreign policy. Like he's really into it. The way he explains it to me is like,

Because I'm always like, your recall is insane. He's like, yeah, but I could talk to you about a fight that happened 10 years ago and you'll tell me exactly how it went down. Like, that's all it is. It's just, this is what I'm into. Right. Because it just like, I'm not studying it for any other reason other than I'm fascinated by human conflicts, like global conflicts. And so when a guy like that

Is rising you want to try to diminish his impact if he disagrees with your perspective? Like if you see someone but not everybody would want to Disminish that impact not everybody. That's a certain type of person. Yeah, but he's also a certain type of person that kind of existed in both traditional media and alternative media I mean he always did my podcast

And he's written some great books like The Strange Death of Europe is very good and proving to be very accurate. If you look at what's happening with mass migration into Europe, he was calling this a long time ago. And he was being called terrible names, racist, Islamophobic, all these different things. And it turns out he was right. I mean what Conor McGregor is talking about in Ireland now and a lot of other Irish people are talking about, what people are talking about in the UK now.

He was right. Like you're changing your culture and you're doing it – you're not having people move there that are assimilating and becoming British. You're having people that are coming there and trying to change what being British means. Right. This is all he was saying.

And so I agree with him on a lot of things, but I think that's how life is. You agree with people on some things. You disagree with them on other things. And this is supposed to be how most people view life.

basically everything in life. There's going to be things that you agree with that there's a lot, I have a lot of friends that disagree with me on certain things, but that should be fine. Yeah. That should be normal. But for some people it's not, for some people it's not allowed because they, they live in this sort of debate culture. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, and some people that do debates, one of the first things they do is they insult the people they're debating with. Yeah. Ad hominem attacks and again, trying to get you on the defensive. That's it's like a tactic of when we talk about mainstream media, like those interview type shows where you only have a certain amount of time. Right. So they have to get right to it. Yeah. Whereas that's not the case with the.

Right podcast. Also, I value perspective. I value someone who could look at things and go, yeah, like clearly the devastation is horrible. Clearly, clearly it's horrible. Clearly there's innocent people. I've seen people say I don't want to say who I've seen people say there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza. I've seen people say that. That's a crazy thing to say. That's a crazy thing to say.

Especially in a place that's controlled by essentially a terrorist group. Like, that's a crazy thing to say. What do you think Chicago would look like? How do you think people would behave if Chicago was controlled by a terrorist group?

Do you think people would be free to speak out against them? Is that the problem? They're not speaking out against them so they should get bombed? That's crazy. If you have a wife and a child and you're barely getting by, you barely have enough money for food, are you really going to be out in the streets protesting against this fucking terrorist group with machine guns and billions of dollars they've gotten from USAID? Yeah. No, you wouldn't. Obviously not. You wouldn't. You're not expressing yourself freely, so how do we even know what their opinions are? Yeah. It's true. It's true.

Yeah, it's just, I mean, all of it, just the changing landscape of media has just, you know, it just gets you thinking about like these voices and, you know, and Douglas brought it up with in that discussion was, was interesting, but all that I remember from it is like how, how much he changed his perspective. But so anyway, I think he's still a brilliant guy and I would still talk to him and listen to him on about a lot of things. But I think,

having conversations like that communicating with people like that diminishes your appeal or Diminishes whether or not it diminishes the overall impact of your mind on other people because I know you think goofy this way I know you you communicate goofy this way and as soon as I know that I'm like

Yeah, and I'll have to put this through this filter now when you say things. I have to go, yeah, but he believes a bunch of goofy shit about that, which is fine, which is fine. I'm sure people do that with me too. It's normal. But I think for someone who is a public intellectual, that becomes a problem when everyone who's really paying attention knows you're using tactics rather than –

actually just debating the issues at hand. Just talking it through. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like the thing is like, who's talking? Like, come on. Everybody's talking, bitch. The whole world's talking. Let people talk. Yeah. It's a crazy time for sure. But yeah. You know what else? You know what I was thinking also? What were you thinking? I don't have...

Did you know I don't have a bow hunting degree? Oh, that's crazy. You should get a degree. Who's giving out degrees? I shouldn't be able to bow hunt, really. Should I? Yeah, you're allowed to bow hunt without a degree. Yeah, because it's a caveman fucking practice.

How awesome is bowhunting, though? It's the best. Yeah. Best way to get food. Yeah. There's no better way to get food. Have you been shooting much? Yeah. Shot this morning. Did you? Four months of Waste to Well. Yeah. Are we going to shoot? I don't know if I have time today, unfortunately, because we spent so much time at Waste to Well.

I got to head home after this. Getting healthy? Yeah. We were getting stem cells today. And what's the mask? The infusion? The lung stuff? Yeah. That was, well, it's stem cell nebulizer, basically. Yeah. So you breathe it in. So you breathe it in like vape. You're vaping stem cells. Hey, all I know, and I said this when I was there, but I did that last time.

And then I ran a five mile race. It was 8K, but my fastest five miles I've ever run. Really? With a broken foot? Yeah. At 57. So it's like, I don't know what it, if it didn't hurt, it didn't hurt me, obviously. Well, they've done so many amazing things with me that I'm, you know, when they say something is really great, you should try it. I'm like, okay. So I put the mask on and I'm sitting there with you. We're talking about Rocky Marciano. Oh, man. We were talking about Rocky Marciano.

I got into these old videos on YouTube of fighters training. And I got into this one video that I sent you about Rocky Marciano and how insane his training was. And it was seven days a week. He would spar sometimes 30, 40 rounds in a day. He would run 10 miles in the morning and then five more miles at night. And then he would swim two miles in the lake. He would swim across the lake and then back.

And then he would get up in the morning and do it all over again. And he never took days off. No. And another thing, he was like focused on recovery and sleep. Yeah. Like he would be in bed like at nine, I think I said every night and get his sleep in, but work so hard. Yeah.

And why do we love stories like that? Because you know how hard it is to do. Yeah. Yeah. But it's... It's impossible. I mean, it's possible, but it's impossible for most. It's like it requires a mind that is just fortified through will and discipline to this strange hardness that's just different than everybody else's. Well, but why would... Okay, so he retired at 49 and 0. Yeah. Yeah.

Heavyweight. Everybody knows him in fighting. Maybe not everybody in the world, obviously. He died a while ago. By the way, small heavyweight. We were talking about that, too. I think in his prime he was 190 pounds or 189 pounds. Something crazy. What did Rocky Marciano weigh while he was fighting? I think he was 5'10", and he weighed like 189 pounds, which is insane. Yeah. Like 188. That's so crazy, dude. So he weighed 12 pounds less than me.

Think about that. 5'10 and a quarter. He weighs 12. He's two inches taller than me and a little more. And then he weighs 12 pounds less. Did he fight Joe Louis in Sunny Lister? No, no, no, no. He fought Joe Louis when Joe Louis was way past his prime and flatlined him. It was pretty brutal. It was a scary fight.

That's so crazy that he was only 188 pounds and he was the heavyweight champion. Granted, this is a different world. Yeah, different era for sure. Different era. There was no Tyson Fury. There was no Mike Tyson either. Right. Everybody talks about Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano's great. Mike Tyson would have went through him like a fucking train through a flock of sheep. Yeah.

It's a different world. Rocky Mountain, at his heaviest, he weighed 192. Okay. He fought seven boxers who weighed more than 200 pounds. But people weren't that big back then. Sonny Liston was. Sonny Liston was big. Yeah, so he would have been 20 pounds bigger.

Bigger than Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston. Yes. But Mike Tyson wasn't that big when he was in his prime. When he was in his prime, he was like 215, 220, and 5'10 or 5'11 as well. He wasn't very big. He was born in 69. Did I see that right? No, no, no. I think that's when he died. I don't know.

Oh, he died. Okay. Let's just say he can't be younger than us. No, no, no, no, no. He was a heavyweight champion in the 1950s. All right. Never mind. I do feel old, but it's not that old. Find Rocky Marciano KO's Joe Louis.

it was brutal because you know back then when you were 38 or whatever joe lewis was when they fought you were really 38. no nutrition you know also lifetime of fighting probably needed the money which is why he took the fight it's not like the joe lewis that knocked out max schmeling in the height of the war and it was like an america's hero this is this is joe lewis when he's on his balding he's got a big

bald spot in the back but he's like it's sad yeah and rocky marciano just mauls him just that's crazy about how did george foreman reinvent himself when he was old the thing is like one one thing that you did see in this fight was the technical brilliance of joe lewis especially early in the fight like if they had fought in their prime i think lewis would have him up that's my belief he's a lot bigger

He was he was taller and but he also had incredible power How old was what we'll ask after watching this video, but he was doing really well for a while But the thing about Marciano was he was not the most talented but he did not get fucking tired and he hit like a truck and

He hit like a truck, and he was just a fucking animal. He just plowed forward. He never ran out of gas. This is not like a technically skilled boxing match. He would just maul guys. He would just bob and weave, and this is the end of it. At the end, Joe Louis goes through the ropes. It's sad, man. It's sad. Yeah. It's sad. How old was Joe Louis when he fought Rocky Marciano?

He looked pretty good, though, up until Rocky started catching him. But this is how a lot of Rocky's fights would go. Even his last fight, which was against...

Was it against Archie Moore, I think? He got dropped in that fight and just got up and just eventually pounded him and beat him down and KO'd him. Yeah. But he was just so fucking tough. Like, what he would do to himself was nothing compared to whatever was going to happen inside that ring. Right. So that was going to be my point. So he had all the success, retired, undefeated. Pretty young, too. People knew. He was 30. 37. 37.

37. Okay, that's how old Poetan is right now. Okay, that's how old Alex Pereira is right now. Right. That's crazy. So 37 back then was like, it was over. Oh, yeah. So much older. But yeah, so when you look at Rocky's success, why even seeing that, and there's fighters out there, why wouldn't they emulate his style, his training, his... Why, if that's what you do, and you want the same type of success...

Why are you letting somebody outwork you? Yeah, it's not that simple. It's like, first of all, you're not as exposed to people like that unless you train with them. Yeah. There's no YouTube videos. There's no, you might hear things, you know, but if you hear things like, I heard Rocky's training seven days a week, 24 hours a day. He don't sleep. He only eats raw meat. You hear stories like that. And you're like, that was Mickey. That was Rocky's training. Yeah. Well, that, you know, but look, that,

You would hear exaggerations. You always hear exaggerations that come out of fight gyms. But I would want to believe those if I was a fighter and be like, because didn't Tyson used to say that? That's why he got up at 5 in the morning or 4 in the morning? Yes. Well, Tyson did train like that.

Yeah, you know else trained like that forever Marvin Hagler. Oh, I thought you say Floyd Marvin Hagler trained like a fucking warrior Right used to run in he was to train on the sand dunes in the Cape of Cape Cod in the middle of the winter and he would just be running screaming war and

Love that war just throwing punches. He would run in combat boots He was an animal. He was an animal just Spartan. He would go to this Provincetown in no fucking phones He would tell his wife and family. I'm gone. I don't exist I'm gone for two months He would just vanish and every day would be the same thing and he was far He was far a lot Hagler was sparring a hundred rounds a week. I

So he was sparring 20 rounds a day for five days in a row. And he would bring in fresh sparring partners, too. It's not like one guy he's beaten up for 20 rounds. No, he'd bring in, he would rotate five different sparring partners. So they would all come in and do four rounds each. Didn't Khabib do that, too, kind of?

Perhaps. I don't know. I mean, I don't know exactly. Khabib had unbelievably grueling training sessions. And, you know, that was one of the things that was so...

a parent like with his his endurance and his their discipline was like second to none they were like no girlfriends no phones no bullshit no video games fuck you we train yeah and you know recover train eat recover train and you want to you want to really be a champion this is how you have to work and this is how Islam Makachev is so good that's why Khabib is so good those guys are

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If I think about it,

You know, we love stories like that. We love all the sparring but it can't it's not gonna lead to a long life No, I mean, no, but is that the price? To be a rocky Marciano or a khabib who has to retire it whatever he was 32 or wherever it's like Is that what it takes it probably to be I caught to be legends Yeah, you give up something to get something like I don't give up life Yeah, I don't think you'd be completely balanced to be and be the best ever. I

But, you know, it depends on how you're doing it, you know? Like, the thing that's so brilliant about Floyd Mayweather is that if you look at his career, he might have been really hit hard four or five times in his whole career, which is insanity. I mean, he really is only—that's Hagler. In the snow, screaming war. It was the best. Yeah, but so why do we love stories like this?

Well, for me, when I was a kid, Hagler was the man. Yeah. You know, when I was in high school. But we still love them now. Yeah. I love, like, that clip you sent me yesterday. Oh, yeah. Or this. I loved it. This clip is the same YouTube website. It's Boxing Life. Is that the YouTube channel?

So really good channel. But with the Hagler's discipline was just it was so admirable. Like he didn't have to go fucking Cape Cod in the middle of the winter. Right. He did it because he wanted to be separated. He wanted to live a Spartan life. Look, he would run backwards. Yeah. Throwing punches. And that's I think that's either Goody or Pat. The Petronelli brothers were the guys who trained him.

This is his workout. Six mile run, steep hills, running backwards, breakfast, rest, watch TV, film, late lunch, boxing training, strength and conditioning, dinner, watch film, and sleep, repeat, rinse, do it again, day after day after day.

That's it. Yeah, he was too much chill out in there My favorite fight with him was against John the Beast Mugabe because everybody points to the Hearns fight where he beat the shit out of Hearns and KO'd him incredible incredible incredible knockout for sure and one of the best boxing matches one of the best most entertaining entertaining world championship fights of all time, but for me it was Mugabe because Mugabe was uniquely talented you Mugabe had insane power

I remember I was at a boxing gym in Massachusetts at the time Mugabe was about to fight Hagler, when Mugabe was coming up.

They were telling me stories about Mugabe fighting guys, and they never fought again. They had brain damage You know I don't know how again boxing gym talk. It's hard to know yeah But I remember being a kid listening to this going what the fuck like he hit that hard Mugabe just was Flattening people see if you can find John Mugabe Who did he KO did he KO Terry Norris? No that was later who did John Mugabe fight that he knocked out best KOs?

Let's see. Pull up John Mugabe's record. So John Mugabe was like almost kind of – okay, here. Top John Mugabe greatest knockouts. He was almost like a Francis Ngannou guy where it's like his power was just so crazy. You would watch him hit people and you'd go, what the fuck, man? Oh, this is Julian Jackson, right? Is that who it is? Yeah.

Pretty sure he KO'd Julian Jackson. Or maybe that was Terry Norris. No, Julian Jackson KO'd Terry Norris. But, you know, he just had just extraordinary power. Are they showing the KOs here? This is just a lot of boxing. Here it is. Here he goes. Oh, God. Yeah, bro.

He just had this one punch knockout power. And when he fought Hagler, man, he caught Hagler with some big shots. Yeah. And one of the more impressive things about Marvin was not just that he was such a big puncher and a great boxer, but also how durable he was because he was in such incredible shape. Mm-hmm.

You know, he never went down his entire career. He has one knockdown, and it was 100% bullshit. He fought this guy named Juan Roldan, and when Hagler was bending over, Juan Roldan kind of cuffed him in the back of the neck, and he fell forward, and they called it a knockdown. It was not a knockdown, and most boxing experts, I would actually argue that all boxing experts agree that that was not a real knockdown. So you're talking about a guy who fought Tommy Hearns. Did you see that last one? Yeah, it was a little illegal. Oh.

A little on the knee. One knee down, he KOs him. But the point is, Mugabe was terrifying, and he was fucking everybody up, and Hagler broke him. But in the beginning, it was rough. In the beginning, it was rough. Mugabe was landing some big shots. See if you can find Mugabe. Well, I know it's available. Mugabe versus Hagler.

He was mean, too, man, like hitting guys where they were down. Dangerous, dangerous guy. And I don't know if he fought again after Hagler KO'd him, but he was never in the conversation again. Hagler broke him. Hagler told him he was going to retire him. He's like, I'm going to retire him. He's never going to box again. And he just beat him down. And I think it was the 11th round when he finally stopped him.

5'8 and 5'9. Yeah, 160. That's about right, generally speaking, for heavily muscled guys. Especially back then, those guys were not cutting a lot of weight like they are today. Right. Some of these guys today are cutting big weight. God, Hagler looks good, doesn't he? Yeah, by the time the eighth round started happening, Hagler... One of the things about Hagler that was so good was...

Hagler could switch so he could fight you Southpaw and then in the middle of nowhere He would switch up and start fighting you Orthodox and was just as good just as good The only guy who's like that is Terrence Crawford who's champion now He's the only guy that I've ever seen that fights just as good from Southpaw as from Orthodox But Hagler was a rarity back then a guy that could switch it up like that. Like nobody had ever seen that before Yeah

But that's also why it was very difficult for him to get fights early on because nobody really wanted to fight a southpaw. Like southpaws were – they were too awkward. Everything is backwards. And if you're not used to fighting southpaws, they have an advantage because they're always fighting orthodox people. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. And so they're accustomed to that one look. Now, this fight had gone back and forth and back and forth. This is the end. This is when Hagler finally gets him.

Boom. And that was it. And I think that was the 11th or the 12th round. I think it was the 11th round of a 12-round fight. So Hagler fought in the era where they used to have 15-round fights and they turned them into 12-rounders after Ducku Kim died when Ray Mancini KO'd Ducku Kim. Yeah, it's a lot of damage. 15 rounds of headshots. Yeah, man.

I think that's why Rocky Marciano retired when he was 32. 49-0 and 32 years old. He could have kept fighting, could have kept making money. 32 is your athletic prime. That's what I'm thinking. Khabib did the same thing. I just love seeing those training videos

camp videos carrying the rocks and running the mountains and it's just like but you know back to my point why do we love that just because it's so primal or and it's just just men just giving everything they have yeah it's it's like it's and it's one reason why Goggins is such a

Yeah, he's sort of like that. Oh, he's very much like that But the craziest thing about Goggins is he's not even training for anything. I asked him about it. I'm downloading Downloading information. I'm like you're downloading This is so crazy. We were talking about the video that he that style bender just put out Shout out to style bender for putting this out to we're also giving him credit because respect because David broke him Comment

Where your world ends, mine begins. And this is one of Goggins' multiple workouts of the day that he took Stylebender through. Stylebender's off the... Yeah, and he's...

And they're helping him back up. By the way, this is after they already ran. This is like the second. This is the third thing they did. They ran. Then they did the Airdyne bike. And then they're doing this. So they already did sprints on the Airdyne bike. They ran for distance. I don't know how many miles they ran. But he was exhausted after the run. Then exhausted after the Airdyne. And then he does this. And then they do it all over again. Yeah. They start again with the fucking Airdyne machine. They go back and forth. And then it goes to sit-ups. And then it goes to...

Just like it never ends. And this is one. And then people go, he's not doing that every day. Well, fucking clearly he is every day. Clearly he is. Cause look at him. He's not even breathing heavy. Stylebender is dying. And David Goggins is talking to him with normal breath. At the same time, a world champion, one of the greatest middleweights of all time can't even keep this food down. And remember, this is,

stylebender who against Kevin Gaslam was saying I'm prepared to die yeah going into the fifth round yeah looks across the ring Cage says I'm prepared to die same guy same guy yeah

There's levels when it comes to endurance. You know, and I was telling you about when we're getting our infusions, when we were vaping stem cells today, I was telling you about BJ Penn when he was in his prime. When BJ Penn was in his prime, he was training with Marv Marinovich. And Marv Marinovich had very unorthodox training methods where it was all plyometrics, explosive drills, sprints,

box jumps, all this crazy stuff. And he believed, and I hope I'm not quoting him incorrectly, but he believed that

fight training was of secondary importance when you're in camp and really what was important is to just have a fucking insane gas tank like BJ Penn knows how to fight he's a world champion he's not gonna forget how to fight but you could get him training this way where you have this gas tank that's just insane and when BJ Penn was training with him he was unstoppable man

He was like, I always say this, like people talk about Khabib being the greatest lightweight of all time, and maybe he is. It's very possible he is. But I would put the BJ Penn that fought Joe Daddy Stevenson, the BJ Penn that fought Sean Shirk, the BJ Penn that was like in that peak when he was training with him, I would put him against anybody. Against anybody. When he fought Diego Sanchez, he couldn't be stopped.

And if you got him to the ground, his fucking submission game was insane. It was insane off of his back. He would take your back. You're dead. He would knock you out standing up. His kickboxing was elite. How do you think Khabib would fight him? Take him down for sure. He'd probably fight him the same way George St. Pierre did. But the difference in size between BJ Penn and George St. Pierre is pretty significant. Right. BJ Penn was really a 155-pound guy who actually later in his career fought 145 later, which was –

you know, when he was kind of at the end of his career. But, you know, George is way bigger. Like, George was a big 170, big muscular 170 with great wrestling. Nasty ground and pound and a black belt in jiu-jitsu himself and also a really good striker. And just, you know, in his prime when he was so well-rounded. Yeah.

And there was also accusations of greasing, you know, because, you know, George was very slippery in that fight, which is if you're a grappler and the other person, you can't get a hold of them, especially if you're a guy like BJ who fights so well off of his back. BJ's legs were like arms where he could be sitting there without using his hands. He could put his feet in the lotus position. So like completely cross and lock his legs in the lotus position without using his hands at all. Whoa. Yeah.

Yeah. Crazy flexibility and dexterity. Yeah. So if you were trapped in his guard, you were fucked. Yeah. You see those guys who they're on their back and they get their leg up around the guy with the top position's head. Yeah. Somehow. When you're in Eddie Bravo's guard, it's terrifying. Eddie Bravo has the craziest guard I've ever been in. It's so nuts. And there's a bunch of Eddie students like Jeremiah Vance who also have these insane guards like that.

There's certain guys where, like, if they're on their back, it's no picnic. Like Fabrizio Verdum. He tapped Fedor Emelianenko from his back. He got him in an armbar triangle from his back.

Yeah. Well, you could tell, like, if we talk about a recent fight, Chandler versus Patty Pimblett, Chandler didn't really want to be on the ground with Patty. No. And Chandler's a wrestler. Like, he loves being on top. But still, he had top position and was still nervous about doing stuff, it seemed like. I don't know. Yes. Well, Patty is big. Patty's a big lightweight. Yeah.

He really is. I mean, I know he gets real fat in between fights. He gets a kick out of it. But he's big. Yeah. He's big. You know, he's a lot bigger than people think. I always say that he tricks people by dancing and having silly hair. And you go, oh, that's a killer. He's like tricking you. He's like, you know, he's like one of them bugs that pretends to stick. And you get close and he jacks you. Yeah. He looked...

He looks so good. He's really good. I love Chandler. Love Chandler. That was a tough one to watch. I love Chandler as well, but I love Patty as well. Patty is very impressive. Oh, yeah. There's a good argument that the last three guys he fought, Bobby Green, Chandler...

And Tony Ferguson, like he's fighting guys with losing records, which is true. You know, that is true. But it's still very impressive what he did.

to Chandler in comparison to like what Oliveira did. Like Oliveira was in real trouble in the third round of their last fight. Real trouble and real trouble in the first round of their first fight. And Patty was never in trouble. Chandler was this close to having that belt. Yes. In the first fight. This close in the first round. This close. Yeah. And maybe just got, yeah, sure. Thank you. Maybe just got a little overzealous in that fight. Yeah. He was excited. I mean, in the second round. Who wouldn't be? Yeah. Yeah.

But also, Oliveira's a master. Oh, yeah. He's so good. Well, his fight against, I think, Arman, right? Mm-hmm. Was so... So good. I was watching those guys fight, and I'm just like, I've never seen two guys this...

Good technical. Just never out of position hardly. And Charles almost caught him twice in two very close submission attempts. It looked like he was out at one time. He wasn't moving. Well, he got it. He was pretty locked in, but he wasn't out. But it was very close. Yeah. Very close. I think he should have won that fight. In my opinion, those positions where Charles had where you were that close to finishing a fight count for a lot. Yeah.

And I think that's part of the problem with scoring system. It's one thing if you go for a guillotine, the guy gets out of it immediately, you're on your back getting beat up. That submission attempt, that's not that much. When a guy has a fully locked in D'Arce choke and you're almost out and you get saved by the bell, that should count for a lot. What's the best position for a D'Arce? Because they were both kind of flat on the ground.

Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways you can catch a darts, but the way a darts works is like say if you have an underhook, which means your left arm is wrapped around my waist. What I want to do is shove my arm under your armpit so it pops out the side of your neck. Then I want to wrap my bicep around like this so I lock my arm around one side of your neck and this, and then I'm squeezing.

So that's Tony Ferguson. He had a nasty, nasty darts. Tony's darts was elite. Because Tony has long, you see him catching it standing up there. Tony has long arms and he's strong as fuck. And he's got like a great grappling base because he started off as a wrestler. Oh, there, yeah, see there's Charles. Charles is up on top right there. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what I was saying. They're kind of laying both flat. I just didn't know what was best.

Well, that's not ideal. Ideal is when you get the guy on his back and then you could lock like the Dustin Poirier one where Islam has him. See how Dustin in the lower right hand corner. Yeah, that's it right there. So that's him against. Go a little higher there.

That's that's a not so much Kano, but one of the things you see about Islam is a very unique way of doing the dars is Islam grabs his own wrist like this to finish it Yeah Whereas other guys go all the way down to the bicep and the thing about grabbing the wrists like that That's really good is you can make it a little bit tighter in a situation where you can't really

Like some guys they have too much bulk and maybe your arms are too short You can't get the well like having long arms is really important for a darts like John Jones must have a wicked darts Because you can get the arms all the way through if they're long then you can cinch it up But Islam cinches it up actually by grabbing a hold of his wrist and so it gives you extra space and the grip that he uses is incredibly tight he's also insanely strong

Islam. Islam is insanely strong. He's got that sort of elite grappling strength that comes from decades of throwing human bodies around. There's a thing about that. Here it says Demetrius Johnson says, I felt it. I know. Fucking Max Holloway just texted me. How strong is that dars? That's a sick dars. Islam is elite. He's elite when it comes to strangling people.

So is Ilya Teporia. He's got a nasty darts too. Aren't they fighting? I don't know. Oh, that never got signed?

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The word is, and this is only from the internet, this is not from Dana. And if he told me, he'd probably tell me not to tell anybody, so I won't tell you. But the word on the internet is that Ilya plans to fight in the June card, the big international fight week card at the end of June. Whether or not it's for the title, he said he's only fighting for the title. That's what he said. Unless he said Conor McGregor. He said, I'd fight Conor McGregor.

Or the title. I think he'd just fight Conor McGregor because he knows the numbers would be fucking insane. Yeah. Millions of dollars. How? But it doesn't mean he's fighting Islam because Islam might decide I'm going to go up to 170. Right. Yeah. Here's what could happen because Islam's been talking about fighting 170. If Bilal Muhammad, who's the current welterweight champion, who's going to fight Jack de la Madalena, which is only in like a couple of weeks, right? Mm hmm. When is that?

When is that one? Yeah, that's coming up. They might hold that announcement until that fight. So Islam and Bilal were training partners. And apparently Khabib does not want Islam to fight Bilal. But if Bilal loses to Jack de la Maddalena, then it's a no-brainer. Why doesn't he not want him to fight him? Next Saturday? Not this, but next.

May 10th. Yeah. So it's real soon. So all that we'd have to do is hold off their announcement until May. I see. So if Bilal wins, then there's an issue because Khabib does not want Islam, allegedly, apparently, doesn't want them fighting because they're brothers, you know, they train together. Oh, okay. Oh, I see. But is

Islam's big. I mean, he easily could be fighting at 170. It's probably torture for him to get down to 155. Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how are you 155? This is so crazy. That would show rough weight cuts for him, it seems like. It's rough. He's big. He's probably 190 plus.

Look at that. Boom. Oh, yeah. Islam says I'm going to submit you with that because that's your thing. Islam says – or excuse me, Ilya says that he's going to submit Islam with whatever his favorite move is. He's like, tell me your favorite choke. Tell me your favorite submission. That's what I'm going to submit you with. Yeah. It's easy to say. That's an elite level and a lot bigger. Yeah. I was going to ask like –

How hard is it, or who is the next star? Because we kind of saw this with Ronda when she was coming out of the women's division. It's like, who is the next star going to be? Connor. Still, people are trying to call Connor out because they know of that money that's involved with it. How do we get that next superstar? Well, they have to win. Sugar Sean O'Malley could have had it if he beat Merab, you know?

But that was a nightmare matchup, and he had a fucked up hip going into that fight, which is one of those things. UFC was putting on this big show at the Sphere, which was insane. By the way, if they ever do one again, you got to go. Yeah, I'd love to. The fucking Sphere's crazy. Yeah, I remember watching it. It's so crazy. It's like a total experience in and into itself. I need to go to a concert there. It's the most amazing venue I've ever seen in my life, and there's not even a close second. Like, nothing's close. Mm-hmm.

There's a really cool one in LA that just opened up that we did a LA card there a few months back. That was really good too. But it's like one-tenth of the sphere. The sphere is nuts. Yeah. It's so nuts. It looked insane on TV. And the sound. The sound. You feel it through your fucking bones. It's wild.

That was like last May 5th, wasn't it? I believe so. Yeah. Cinco de Mayo. So for him to take that fight with a bad hip is crazy. And I know he did it because he thought he could win anyway because he's a champion and that's how champions think. Yeah, you have to.

But with a bad hip when you're fighting a wrestler and you weren't wrestling at all in training because your hips bad. That's crazy That's like you got you got to get it fixed. Just get it fixed Tell them tell them it blew out and you can't walk get it fixed. You got to think about the legacy in the future and Taking a fight against a guy who's an elite grappler while you have a blown hip is kind of insane if you can't grapple like it seems insane and

Yeah. But he could have won. I think it's that mindset you just have to have. It kind of can get you in trouble too. And you look at how good his takedown defense was against Aljamain Sterling. So Aljamain Sterling in the first round tried to take Sean down. He could not take him down. And that was a big factor. Like Aljamain was in trouble because if you can't take him down and Sean is a fucking sniper. He's a sniper. And he knows how to find that chin, man. He's got a pull right hand that's like –

From the textbooks. And the one he would hit Aljamain with, that's going to be in that UFC when they play the Who. Yeah. When they play Bob O'Reilly. That'll be on that forever. That is such a clean right hand. Yeah. It's such a pullback. Boom. And Aljamain saw it coming. Oh! You can see his face. Yeah, he's like, oh, no. What have I done? I know.

And I bet he thought he could do that to Merab too, and he might have been able to, but Merab is a different species of human. Again, same kind of guy. I know. Same kind of guy. So listen, we've been kind of dealing with this with my kids and Truett and all this stuff he's been doing, but I think those fighters we're talking about, it just made me think of my kids, but when you start them at as...

Kids like like the guys like Khabib Dagestani guys marab those guys have been training Forever. Yeah, right. Yep, for sure forever. Yeah, sure that has to give you yeah You have to have other abilities and talents and skills and this mindset But when you start that early by the way, Rocky Marciano didn't start box until he was 23. I

Well, there goes my theory. And you know, he had one of his amateur fights, he was exhausted. And so he vowed to never be exhausted again. Yeah.

He gassed out in a fight and he's like, never again. So he just decided he was good. But it's also like, um, he was Italian from immigrant, uh, parents who barely could speak English. Yeah. And those people who came over on the boat, they were a different species, right? There are different species of hard workers. Those people were terrible.

Tough and they demanded so much Joey Diaz immigrant mentality immigrant mentality cocksucker Yeah, I mean that's real immigrant mentality is a real thing when you've come here from another country and you see how hard your family works and This is just like there's no if ands or buts. Mm-hmm I always tell the story about this guy that I used to train with that always used to make me feel lazy My friend junk sick. He was in his residency in medical school while he was on the US national team. I

So he was a national Taekwondo champion while he was going to medical school. So he was going to school 12 hours a day and still training. And he would put his books in his backpack and run stairs in between studying.

That's how you get in shape sometimes. And then he would come to the gym exhausted and fuck everybody up. It was amazing. And I remember thinking, like, I'm so lazy. And I wasn't lazy. But, like, compared to that dude, I was lazy. Yeah, how – I just – that's what fascinates me because, you know, I've talked to Huberman about Courtney in this regard too. It's like willpower. Yeah. Like, how –

What gives somebody more willpower than another person? It's hard to say because according to Goggins, he forged that. And he has more will than any human being that's ever walked the face of the planet. And he used to be a lazy fuck. He'll tell you. He'll tell you, I was lazy. I was fat. I was 300 pounds. I drank milkshakes all day. He'll tell you. And then he decided that that's not him anymore. And then he decided it better than anybody who ever has. So it's not like he had some genetic gift or...

Will yeah, that's not the case. He forged it and this you know Huberman talks about this Whatever that part of your brain. Yeah that you can grow so is it that that anybody can develop this willpower? Well, I think Goggins proves that because he's again. He's he's the growth He's the goat when it comes to like will and people don't know what Goggins was doing with Izzy Goggins has two destroyed knees Okay, I had dinner with him in Vegas a few weeks back and

And he showed me like some recent x-rays of his knees because he got some fucking new thing in his knee to like to keep his bones from fucking smashing into each other. Some post that they put at the top of one of his knees because his cartilage is missing and his fucking meniscus is blown out. And they saw the top of his bone and shifted it down and screwed it in place because his knee was all out of alignment because he had been running bone on bone so long that his his

bones were starting to just, it's like called wolf something syndrome. And his doctor said, I've never seen it in a human being before. Like this is fucking insane. Like how are you walking on these knees? Forget about running thousands of miles.

Yeah. But he does it. He just does it, right? And if that guy will tell you that he didn't have any willpower and that he was fat and lazy and then decided that he's not going to be that anymore and then put himself through grueling strength conditioning, became a Navy SEAL. Yeah. And then look at it. He's laughing. Come on in.

Let's see how much of a joke this is. And guess what? I do all this alone. Alone. I ain't got nobody. That's where the shit comes from. I ain't got nobody to push me to this level. That's my darkness. That's why I laugh at these motherfuckers. You think they fucking know me? You think you know me coming to my dungeon?

It's a lonely dungeon because you're going to do this shit alone. Every day? Trading this world by yourself? Come on, man. And this is... You see me breathing heavy? Imagine the level I go to. Somebody call the police. Good trip, Jamie. I mean, how do you not admire that? He is psycho. I love it. He is psycho. I love it. Yeah, I did... He is psycho. I said...

We joke around about, you know, because he says it's so easy to be great nowadays because everybody else is weak. That's what Goggins says, right? Interesting. And it's like when you talk about

We talk about generations and you've mentioned it a million times. Good times, create a soft, all that whole thing. But I said, well, we got one, we got Truett. So we got the, we got one kid who's, who's still getting it done. So, well, your son learned from you. I mean, that's a great example of, you know, he's grew up in an environment where his father was regularly running these hundred mile races and, and,

regularly running 13 miles in the morning before work. Like you were doing all that stuff and you were setting an example. I was going to show you something. And then he sees how far it takes you in life. You know, you've gotten here by just force of will. Yeah. And when I, Truett sent me this today, so this is his first half marathon. Can you see that?

Oh, wow, he's a little kid. Wow. But he still ran eight-minute miles in that. That's incredible. That's a little kid. But anyway, that's what I was saying about when you start that early with stuff like that. You get used to it. Yeah. But then again, Goggins will tell you different, or Rocky Marciano will tell you different. He didn't.

I don't think there's a hard, fast rule. Look at that. Look at you guys. That was his first marathon there. That's so cute. There's no hard, fast rules. Like, yes, it's definitely beneficial. As far as skill development, this is what I've always said about striking in particular. There's something about learning striking while your body is maturing and you're young.

Way better than learning striking once you're an adult because you said that with your with your kick Yeah, because your body was changing as you developed that kick and mastered it exactly I was kicking in all kicks, you know, it's not like that's the only one that I'm really elite at I I'm you know, I learned how to kick and

when I was like a little gangly little kid and I learned like and that my body grew strong my tendons grew strong from hitting this 150 pound heavy bag every day like as a little kid yeah and I basically lived in the gym so I was kicking that bag hours every day I was just constantly setting it up and training I was constantly setting up moves until I got him like where it's like

instinctive like i didn't even know it was happening before it happened like when i was in a fight it would just come out like when you see the opening you're not even seeing it you're just moving yeah it's like it all goes into this instinct and the only way that happens is just insane hours insane hours constant dedication but but as your body was growing yes and you're putting that

the stressors on it and those movements on it, your body adapted essentially. So it's like if you're already mature, your body wouldn't have adapted the same as it did because you're doing it at the perfect age. You can get really good if you're a really good athlete and you pick up striking later in life, but you're not going to get Floyd Mayweather good. I don't think. I've never seen it. Rocky Marciano even wasn't Floyd Mayweather level. He was just a mauler. He was just –

And he would never stop. Couldn't hurt him. He couldn't hurt him. His endurance was insane. The volume was insane. You know, he would just make guys rethink their whole lives because he'd be like, what the fuck, man? Like, fuck that guy. That guy's out there. I don't want that. You know, like he just never stopped. But he wasn't like Floyd was an uproar.

He was a master in there. He would stand right in front of you and you couldn't hit him. He stood right in front of Canelo Alvarez and Canelo couldn't do shit with him. And Canelo Alvarez, a world champion, one of the best ever, he couldn't do shit with Floyd. Yeah, I mean, do you think that would be less intimidating fighting somebody like that because he didn't have that power, like the knockout power? And he also had brittle hands. Like Floyd's broken his hands multiple times. You knew you weren't just going to get...

Mauled. You wouldn't get Mugabe'd. Right. Right. You're not going to be able to hit him, and it's going to suck and be frustrating, but...

But he doesn't hit like Hagler. You're not going to be at a pool of blood. Right, right, right. He's not going to beat you down and stop you. The thing about Hagler was Hagler didn't mind getting hit because his chin was iron. He didn't mind, and he wanted to smile at you when you hit him. One of the things he said about Mugabe after the fight, they said, it seemed like Mugabe caught you with a big shot. He goes, oh, yeah, I like when that stuff happens. I like a good fight.

This is what he said after he knocked him out. And like when the ring announcer was saying, the winner and still the undisputed middleweight champion of the world. Hagler's like saying it out loud to himself. The undisputed middleweight champion of the world. And that's a guy that just went through hell for months in the snow at the Cape Cod. And then he just beats the scariest fucking guy in the division. And at that point in time, this was before the Leonard fight, he was talking about retiring.

And you'd have to know if you were a fighter in his division or potentially going to fight him and you saw that after a war and then you see him acting like that, you're probably just like...

Bro, when he knocked out Mugabe, it was an outdoor fight and steam was coming off of his head. Oh, I could just like at the end of the fight. See if you can go to the end of the fight when Mugabe drops and they raise his hand and he's celebrating as he's celebrating and walk around. Steam is coming off of his head. Yeah. He was a monster. Those those. I don't know. I'm addicted to these video viral clips because so now I got two of them. You just remind me of.

There's one. Have you ever heard of Badwater? It's called Badwater 135, I think, but it's a race in Death Valley. Yes. Okay. So Goggins did that. And it gets like 130 degrees where you have to – because it's on the highway through Death Valley. So you have to run like on the white line so your shoes don't melt. Oh, my God. And you wear kind of all white because it's so hot. But it gets 130 degrees. So Goggins –

his first time doing that and he's got you know his physical issues like always but he finishes he gets third place i believe they come up to him and they're like so how was what was it like out there how was the heat and he just was like sitting there just in his chair like this and he looks at the camera he's like didn't notice didn't notice it was 130 degrees

That one is just, I love that one. That's real. What do you got there? What was that, Jamie? Why is this? That's terrible. Why do they have music so much louder when someone's talking? I hate that. I hate that. I didn't even notice it. Yeah, there's that one. Yeah.

Here's the Hagler one. Okay. Look at the steam. See the steam coming off his head? Look at that. That's so insane. Fucking steam. What is it about just people being shredded and...

Just weapons. Well, it's just inspirational, man. It makes you want to go to the gym. I mean, when I see Goggins making Izzy puke and break, it makes me want to work out. I mean, when I talk to you, it makes me want to work out. When I know that you're out there running 13 miles, when you had your full-time job, boy, did I try to talk you out of that for so long. You did. You did. You did.

It's crazy. I tried to talk you out of that job for years. I was like, dude, you're wasting money being there. I know you think it's a good job, but you're wasting money. But the point is, you were working out so much while you had a full-time job. I mean, most people just don't have that kind of willpower. And when someone does, it's like super inspirational to everybody else.

We feed off each other. Humans feed off of each other. When I see a guy like Goggins or I watch a Hagler video of him training, it's just fuel, man. To me, it just pumps my blood up. I want to go hit the bag, man. I want to go work out right now. I see that and-

But that's I've always used that as fuel as a positive always read autobiographies of about fighters and watch videos and and watch them talk and just to me It's always like been it's like wood just throw it on the fire. It's more fuels. I whoo without I mean, but this is the craziest thing about Goggins like I

He ain't got nobody doing that for him. It's all in his own fucked up head. Yeah. There, there's another clip where this guy they're doing, you know, they do these big events, speaking events. And so he was sitting there and the guys, the guys like interviewing him. He's like, so you, you run for hours and hours, don't you? And he just looked, he again, looks at him just like he's got masters this delivery, but he just looks at him. He's just like out, you know, something like hours.

Days. He runs for days and days. So not hours. What are you talking about? Fucking hours. Days. Yeah. What did he do? Like 99, 100 mile. How many 100 milers has he done in his life? Oh, he had the world record. He did eight 100 mile races or like eight consecutive weekends. So it was something like that, which normally, you know, you do 100 miles. You're banged up for a while. I would imagine. 100 miles. 100 miles.

It's a lot. So he's doing them, I think it was eight consecutive weekends. Yeah, most people can't even do eight marathons. Oh, God, dude. Eight marathons? Yeah. Did you ever see Eddie Ift? Or, excuse me, Eddie Izzard. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Eddie Izzard. Eddie Izzard, the comedian from the UK who likes to wear women's clothes, he did this thing in...

sometime in the 2000s where he ran a marathon every day and he had no training. He wasn't in shape at all. He just did it through sheer will. Yeah. And I think he did it like 29 days in a row. Yeah. Like something insane like that. He did it twice. He did it twice. Okay, he's completed 43 marathons in 51 days. That's in 2009. Yeah.

Oh, it says she. See, this thing about calling him she is he doesn't call himself she. He still refers to himself as Eddie. Yeah. And he says I'm a he and I like ladies.

I don't know why they're saying she unless he's changed things since or she's changed whatever either way respect Super cool person to yeah Done to podcast with him her thee them whatever the fuck it is I love him to death but one of them while he was on a treadmill like really yeah He was a he at the time so I was allowed to say he at the time I'm glad we're getting this all worked out

Because when I want to tell these stories, I got to figure out. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Now you know I tend to go down a lot of rabbit holes. I want to know everything about everything. And if you're like that, you need wireless that can keep up. Visible is wireless that lets you live in the know. It's the ultimate wireless hack.

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Make the switch at visible.com slash rogan. Plans start at $25 a month. For the best features, get the new Visible Plus Pro plan for $45 a month. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. When he was he and she and... I think I did his podcast, and he was doing podcasts while he was on a treadmill. And he was running like hundreds of miles. It's like...

But just through force of will. Completed, oh, it's her latest endurance. Look at that. Eddie Izzard completes her latest. Like, what are we doing? This time, 32 marathons in 31 days. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's so kooky. Well. But, I mean, that's really impressive, too, because this is a person that's not in shape. Like, when they started doing it. When he started doing it, the first marathon, when he ran all around the UK and ran, like, a marathon a day. Yeah.

There's a documentary about it, and the documentary is pretty incredible because he's not in shape at all, and he's just breaking himself down, and his feet are falling apart. I bet. Like the bottom of his feet are just raw. It's just blood and tissues, and they've got gauze wrapped in between the toes. It's oozing. I mean, they're just destroyed. I bet. One day he had to take a day off because

Cause it was that bad. You think about it. Cause that was one of the questions I did this podcast about this Cocodona race coming up and they said, you know, how many steps do you think it will take to finish the race? So in that, that just reminds me of, um, so if it's 250 miles, it's my guess was, is generally about 2000 steps a mile. So 500,000 steps. But point is, is 500,000 steps on your feet.

That's going to cause some damage. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? So part of this training for big multi-day ultras is time on feet. Because I was injured, I couldn't train like I normally train. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go out and spend time on my feet.

And so I did last week, 150 miles, which was 22 miles a day, but I couldn't run because I've been injured. So it was like, I was power hiking and kind of a slow run. So it took fucking forever, but I'm just like,

Time on my feet. So I was out there to do that. I was 37 hours of training. So your foot must be getting worse if that's the case. That was my hamstring. Oh. Yeah. Because I was in like the best shape I've ever been in. I was going to go to Boston to get my best marathon time. Everything was tracking, good me and true. We're training, running hard. He was just like – on one of his videos, he's like –

My goal is to get in the two thirties for the marathon for him. And he's like, but actually I think that should be your goal. Cause I can't keep up with you. I was running so good and then tweak the hamstring. So now if I try to open up and run like a six minute mile, it kind of re aggravates it. So I've been trying to be patient, not push it, but I needed time on my feet was my point because just as Eddie illustrated in that, if you're, if your feet aren't toughened up, that's, that's,

That's your contact point. And that's why you run with no socks on too, right? Yeah, right. You want them to get kind of like a brace. But still, it's like that so many steps on your body. So there's joints like... There's this great documentary that just came out on last year's Cocodona 250. And it's called The Chase because they went with like four guys. Is it right here? The Chase? Yeah. And it's really good, but...

The four guys they follow here. Brother looks like hell. Yeah. All those people in hell together. Yeah, so that's, yeah, photographer there. That's Mike McKnight right there. All these legends of 200s. I saw someone climbing a mountain here. What is that? Is that part of it? Shut the fuck up. Is that part of it? That's in the same country, but that's just one of the key runners. That's what he does during his runs.

What? Yeah. During his runs. Yeah. Take a little break. He climbed all the way. He climbs in the film. He climbs this whole fucking thing to the top. Oh, my God. There's people that are different. Yeah. But the point is, is like, that's the guy who is climbing right there. What an animal. Yeah. These guys are just studs. But here's the thing. So-

They had these guys, Jeff Browning right there, legend. He's won like 3,000 miles. That's Joe Stringbean, McConaughey. What's the guy's name that climbs? That's Michael Verstage is his name, I think. It'll probably show. There's McKnight. So it'll show him coming up. Right there. There he is. That guy. Oh, he looks like a psycho. No, he's just...

That's, that's, to me, that's ultra run, like the dirt bag ultra runner. That's what I love about it. Right. I love guys like that. This guy is like, I don't know if he's Amish or whatever. He's from Ohio. Doesn't he live around mountains? Just a freak. So you get these, these people out there to race this 250 miles. You don't know what the hell's going to happen. Every person they just showed there did not win.

A guy who they didn't show won because so much crazy things can happen to your body. And you cannot predict. 17-year-old just finished 12th? That's crazy. That's crazy. I didn't know that. That's interesting.

That's impressive. That's impressive. That kind of will for a 17-year-old? For sure. Oh, my God. That kid's going to be unstoppable. See, that goes to show you, like, there are hard people out there still, even in these soft-ass times. Yeah. There's hard people out there. Yeah, there is. Yeah. Like, I think they showed they'd done the through hike on the Arizona Trail as a family, that kid who'd done it. And that was 800 miles is the Arizona Trail. Yeah.

So a through hike is basically you're just on the trail just as long as it takes. But that makes you tough. Oh, yeah. Every day on your feet. That's the thing. It's like in that movie, these guys are just battling back and forth, passing each other, keeping track because you have the GPS tracker. You remember when me and Courtney did Moab? Mm-hmm.

So people get addicted to this tracking. Right, right. And, you know, my brother just did, so like a month ago or maybe three weeks ago, it was called the Arizona Monster 300, a 300-mile race. My brother just got second. Wow. I was just tracking nonstop. That's incredible. It's so fun to watch. 300-mile race and he got second. How much did the guy who won beat him by? Two hours. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

So the guy who won got 86 hours. Taylor got 88. That's so nuts. 88 hours is so crazy. Slept for four. That is so crazy. How long did it take him to recover? Three and a half days. I mean, probably, I'm sure he's not recovered. Ever. It's been a few weeks. I mean. So nuts. What I've said before is like those races, I mean, exercising is good. That's good for you.

Those not good. Those aren't making you live longer. No. Pushing your body that hard. No, it can't. I mean, it's like you're on death's door. Yeah. I mean, you can only run for so long before eventually everything just breaks. The cool part is Courtney's doing this one. Oh, nice. She's back to the 200. She's a fucking animal, dude. Yeah. You'd never guess. Eats candy. All silly. Yeah.

Easy to talk to, real fun. But somewhere in that brain, there's some darkness. I don't know. That she can call upon. I've been trying to find it. You know, she came out. We did. I just released it on my YouTube. But we did three hours or three days. We did 100 miles. She's eating McDonald's French fries. So this is it. I know I had Trace bring us McDonald's because we stayed at Pisgah for 12 hours and did 15 summits, 50 miles, just up and down.

Look at her just chilling, eating fries. She looks like an Instagram influencer. Yeah. You know, she doesn't look like some psychopath that can run that far. No. So, yeah, we did this three days, 100 miles, and we did— This is a McDonald's commercial? Basically. Because you have your fries stuffed in your pockets. I know. The perfect fuel, seed oils for runners. You need calories and salt. There's my brother right there, Taylor. Yeah.

That's who got third. Incredible. So this is his race. But yeah, the point is, is like we went, so three days and I'm, you know, this 41 miles down this day, you get to the last day and I'm fucking beat up, dude. She never, never got tired. And I'm like,

She can do her run, her little run at this like a nine minute mile pace forever. That's so crazy. And I just don't. That's where I'm like this willpower. How does it work? Well, she famously went blind. Yeah. And kept running and fell and cracked her fucking head and got up and kept running. And won. And won. Yeah. She's a maniac. But it's like.

It's not like this angry Goggins, like, who's going to carry the boats? Like a different kind of mental strength. She's got her own thing, her own formula. Yeah, I don't know if I told you this, but... So I was talking to her about when you get in these ultra races, I mean, it's pain is what mostly stops you, right? It just hurts so bad to run. So I said...

She talks about the pain cave. So she goes into the pain cave and that's, you know, she welcomes it. She's not shying away from the pain. And I said, I go, okay, so what do you mean? You're just like embracing the pain? She's like, no, I'm working in there. And so she's explaining, she's got this chisel and she's hitting the chisel with a hammer.

And I said, I said, so you're not thinking about running? She's like, no. She's, I'm thinking about hitting the chisel and she goes, rocks falling down and piling up. And I said, so that you're thinking about that, not running. She's not, not running at all. She's thinking about working. So she, she makes her brain think about making this cave bigger. And I'm like,

Whoa. So I said, is there like furniture and shit in the cave? She's like, no. I said, Plato's cave. I said, but is it, I said, is it the same cave every time, every race? She says, yeah. And I go, but I said, do you have like an extra, like a wing for one specific race is, is you work on this wing of the cave? She's like, yeah, sometimes. So she's in this cave thinking about chiseling rock and,

Making the cave larger. Making the cave larger and just expanding the pain cave. And I was just like, I was blown away. And she goes, I feel like I need to stop talking about this because the more I talk, the crazier I seem. I kind of think you have to be crazy to be great.

I don't think it comes to a normal person. I think there's got to be something going on. I mean, for her, it's the pain cave. For Goggins, it's who's going to carry the boats. You don't know me, son. Whatever it is, you've got to be crazy. And you have to decide. If you want to beat Courtney in a 200-mile race, you've got to decide...

For years, for years, you have to chase that goal. You're not going to do it tomorrow. It's not going to happen. Like you're going to have to build up for years to be able to do that. And she's going to be building up along the way too. And so you probably never catch her. I don't know. She looks, you know, she's 40 now. Looks like better than she's ever looked as far as like performance. You know, she's, I think she's done one race this year.

Won it broke the course record and now she's got this one coming up So I don't know when she won the Moab. She won the Moab 240 right 40 Yeah, how far away was she from the second place person? It's like eight or ten hours

And I asked her about that too. Cause, cause even that, so if, if you said, oh, you got, you're up by hours. Right. You just kind of, yeah. She pushed the whole time. So that's what I, that's what I, I am fascinated and I just want to know why. Right. How? What did she say?

She just wants to do the best she can. She just wants to see what she said. She's never racing anybody else. It's always just how hard could she push herself? That's interesting because that kind of eliminates the ego. Yeah. Because instead of battling with your ego, you're just trying to do your best all the time. Your best. You're not racing against anybody else. You're just trying to do your best. A lot of people say that.

A lot of people say that. I think she truly believes it. Right. I believe she believes it, too. And if you can just compete against yourself, like, again, back to Goggins, he's not doing it for anything. Right. There's not a thing that he's got going on. No race coming up. Uh-uh. No, a lot of people have to have a goal to work towards. He told me he's downloading information.

Yeah, what is it? I don't know what that means. That's his own pain cave. Yeah. He's downloading knowledge. So he's still trying to get better is what it sounds like to me. He's trying to figure out like he's developing his mind to be this unstoppable force, which it clearly is. It's as close to an unstoppable force as I've ever seen, especially when you consider the damage done.

If you go back to that Izzy video, let's look at his stride. 'Cause here's the thing about Goggins, one of the things you see in his stride is if you look at his knees, he's got giant scars up both of his knees. His knees are way more fucked up than mine and I don't run because my knees are fucked up. - You did a 5K. - I did once. No training at all. But the scars are extraordinary. And when you see them in real life, it's even scarier. And his form is weird.

But if you go to the YouTube video, Freestyle Bender, YouTube, okay, Izzy's got it. Izzy put the whole thing up. And when you see him running, I mean, his pace is great, but it's weird, like the way he's running because his knees are destroyed. Yeah, and I think that that's just kind of –

evolved or devolved, however you want to say it, over time. He's just doing what he has to do. You know what I mean? Yeah. If you scoot your head a little bit, this is in the beginning. So here it is, him running. There's a profile that shows it pretty good. Yeah, there's a sideways profile. But even then, it looks kind of odd. Like Izzy looks sort of loose and relaxed. His legs straighten out. David's legs never straighten out. They always have a bend to them at every step.

You know, like when you see him sideways, you really get a chance to see it. There's one part where you see him run. There it is. There it is right there. So look, see how he's kind of – that's odd, right? Like you're a runner. You tell me. That's kind of odd, right? Well, I just don't know. He might be just trying to stay with Izzy because Izzy's going at a slower pace, which maybe if he was like –

Maybe if David was opened up, it'd be more extended. I'm not sure. It's hard to say. Because Izzy's obviously struggling there. And also, they are going uphill when this is happening. Yeah, so I think David, it could be tweaking his form a little bit. But, I mean, he must be in agony. There's no way he's not in agony if you know the extent of the damage that he has on his knees. And if you've seen the x-rays, and we've showed them on the podcast before with all the fucking screws and shit, they saw the top of his knee.

femur off or his tibia off and shifted it to make it flat again. Like, what? Yeah, he showed me some crazy photos, too, of, like, his body reacting just insanely to some of what he's been putting it through. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Well, he has to stretch, he told me. He stretches for two and a half hours every night. Yeah. Just stretches. And that's changed a lot for him, too. When you look at him and Izzy running, I mean...

David's 50. They don't look that much different as far as like... Physically looks insane. Yeah. And again, he's not breathing heavy at all. And that was one of multiple workouts he does in a day. Yeah. But that would break most human beings. I think Izzy posted that that was...

David does three of those workouts a day. That's so crazy. Yeah. And he keeps going. Yeah. By himself. That's why I love him. All alone. Yeah. I mean, there's real boogeymen out there, right? Yeah. And with David, this is all for his own personal growth or what he likes to call downloading knowledge, right?

Whatever he's doing, that's for him. It's his own battle that he does. But just to know that there's a guy like that out there, it pushes everybody else too. David existing in this soft-ass world that we live in today raises the bar for literally everyone on earth. Everyone who hears about him knows that there's a standard above in which they have ever pushed themselves. Above and beyond.

And that's Marvin Hagler and that's Rocky Marciano. There's people like that. That's Khabib. There's champions. And what people do is they cultivate their own little world without those people. Oh, yeah.

They're like, I don't know if I've heard you. I think you, like, you don't like knowing about certain men don't like knowing that there's people like that out there. Yeah. Because then it's just like, fuck. They don't like being held to a standard that they can't match. Like, they don't like being confronted by, oh, he's cheating. Oh, he's doing this. He's probably on peptides. There's some fucking excuse. There's not a peptide in the world that makes you work out six hours a day. Fuck no. It doesn't exist. No. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.

Yeah, I think that you have to be a crazy person and you have to be willing to get yourself into that place, that crazy place. What was super cool is when True was going after the pull ups, Goggins was checking in and he was just like all in like, you got it. OK, tell him to do this. Tell him to do this. He's like, OK, write this down. Call me back. I mean, he was so into it.

Yeah, he's a man. He's the man. Love him. I love him to death. And I think he does a great service to the world, even though he's doing it all in silence. He's doing it all alone. You get glimpses of it. You get enough to know. And especially that video where you see him with Izzy like, oh, this is real. This isn't a mythical person. You know, this isn't the gray man. This is a real human being. Like, holy shit, man. Like.

Like there's people out there that are just working harder than everybody else and they're going to keep doing it. Yeah. And that's their grind. And those people are super valuable. Those people are so valuable. The Marvin Haglers of the world, the Rocky Marcianos of the world, like those are very, very valuable people. Yeah. Because they change everybody's perspective of like what's possible, what to strive for, and what it takes. Yeah.

Like, do you really want to be a champion? Why? Because you just want to be cool? You want to be the coolest guy on the block? Like, you're not going to win. You're going to find some fucking psychopath who just lives it. It's their whole life. And if it's not your whole life, get out. Get out. There's another quote that I love. Something like, there's somebody out there training every day. And when you meet...

They will win. Yeah. I mean, that's just a fact. Most people don't want to think about those type of people. They like think that they're, they're like, oh yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm working my ass off. I'm doing more than anybody. Mm-hmm.

They're ignoring a few people. Yeah. You don't work more than anybody. That's not real. There's no way you do. There's one guy. He lives in Vegas. He's my friend. I know. I'm going to tell you. I'll introduce you to him, and you just get nervous just being around him. Yeah. He's on a different level. He's the man. And that level that he's on, like this thing that he's doing, it's good for all of us. People don't like it because they feel weak.

Like I've compared myself to him like, Jesus Christ, I don't have that kind of will. But if I was the type of person that all I was was my hard work and my will, I would look at him and I would feel inferior. And people do not like that. And there's a lot of bitch ass men out there that don't like it when guys are working harder than them. And they try to bring those people down. And David takes all those fucking people and then he writes all the shit that they said down on.

And then he records it and listens while he's running. Yeah. He's one of one. You better shut the fuck up. You're just going to make him meaner. Yeah. You're just going to make him crazier. I love that. What's that? The challenge nowadays is...

Who's real and who isn't. Right. Because there's people that say things just like David says. But they're not really doing it that well. They're not doing it. They're not him. No, they're not him. It's an act. It gives them this social currency in today's world. So that's the hard part is like who's who's real, who isn't. And they might be working harder than most people.

Not everybody. Even not everybody. No, there's people out there that are just – and you can't. You can't because there's not only so many hours in a day and there's only so much time you can do. Yeah. I've never done anything like that before.

But what I did do when we had that Sober October challenge with Tom and Bert and Ari is I went kind of crazy and lost my mind. I was doing seven hours of cardio a day because I wanted Bert Kreischer to die because Bert really thought he was going to win. So I watched John Wick like 50 times in a row. Did you do seven a day? Oh, yeah. I was doing seven hours a day. Yeah. I was trying to kill him. I was literally trying to kill him. I was running hills. What if he would have died? Then he dies. I was like, what?

I was like, he's talking shit. He was talking shit. That's what you get. That's Burt. Like Burt will tell you he can do the splits. I'm like, okay, do the splits. Yeah. You can't do the splits. Like he'll tell you he could beat you in pushups. Okay. He can't beat you in pushups, but he'll always say it, which is fine. Yeah. But there was something about that competition where we were all kind of going crazy. We all decided to never do that again because at the end of the month, we're like, it was bad for your family. Bad for your kids. Never saw me. I was like, daddy's fucking screaming in the gym all day.

I set off the fire alarm because I sweat so much in the gym that the fire alarm went off. That's pushing it. Puddles around me. Puddles. Just puddles. I was just drinking water and soda. I was drinking like cream sodas because I needed sugar. Yeah, definitely. That's what I wanted. I wanted soda. So I was drinking sugary sodas and just running like a fucking maniac.

And at the end of it, I was like, I can't. That's a part of my brain I don't like.

That part was, like, the part that made me very good at fighting. And it, like, ignited again. And I was like, ooh, it's still in there. Like, Jesus. It's been a while and it's still there. It's been a while. It kind of got stronger. It was, like, more... You, like, wanted to stay back. You know? It's like you want to start doing other things. You want to start running and doing races and start, like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. You're busy. Yeah. Let's not get crazy. Do you think it's...

Do you think it's the measurables that have changed things? Sure. Because our watches tell us everything. Right. So you get those numbers. You want those numbers to go up. Yeah. They say that that's a thing with those Fitbits and all these different wearables. People say that people are getting addicted to those the same way they're getting addicted to social media. Mm-hmm.

So we were doing everything through the MyZones chest strap. It's a heart rate monitor. And it was basically giving you a certain amount of points for having your heart rate above like 140 and then even more points if it gets above like 180, like when you're in the red. And so you would just try to clock as many points as you could for a day. So you had to push hard to get those points. Exactly. Yeah, you have to be –

You know, you're in the yellow, like the 140s for hours and hours. Yeah. My heart rate is so low. If me and Truett going on a run, we did a 20-mile run here a few months ago. His was in the 20-mile run, we ran like 618s. His was 157, and mine was 139 or 140. So I have a hard time getting my heart.

That's crazy. That's insane fitness. I'd like to see what David's is. Yeah. But he ain't wearing no fucking heart rate monitor. No, that's not his style. But yeah, so when you talked about that your heart rate had to be high to get these points, I'd be fucked. Well, Brigham says that he competes with Tim Kennedy, and he's like, Tim Kennedy doesn't even know I'm competing with him.

Because you can find – because Tim Kennedy's wearable numbers are posted on the MyZones thing. Like that's the thing about MyZones that was interesting is like you could compete with – and even when we were doing Sober October and we were like torturing ourselves, we still weren't in the top ten in the country. There were still people out there for no fucking reason other than being a psycho –

people you've never heard of in Nebraska somewhere or wherever that are working harder than us. And they're not even competing for anything. This is just what they do. And they're putting in crazier numbers than we were.

And they probably do it every month. Yeah, that's... Nuts. That is nuts. Yeah, so Tim Kennedy's one of those. He's always posting these crazy numbers. And Brigham tries to compete with him. And when he finds Tim's numbers, that's why he spends two hours a day doing Muay Thai. He's competing with these numbers. Oh, I see, yeah. See, Strava's sort of like that. Runners use Strava. I'm not on it. But that gets posted publicly so everybody can see...

the pace, the climb, the hours. Well, if you're competitive, it's great for everybody because it just raises that bar. Imagine if you could see Rocky Marciano's Strava numbers in 1951. People would be like, what the fuck? I know. I would love that. Everybody else would be like, well, that was the thing with the Hagler and Mugabe fight. Like, Marvin broke him. He couldn't keep up with Marvin. Marvin kept...

hitting him, ripping to the body, slowly but surely breaking him down. But his endurance was just so strong. At the end, Mugabe was just like a – he was wobbly. Like you see when guys like – when you see it in a fight, in MMA you see it a lot. Their technique doesn't look crisp anymore. Their head's moving too much. Their core's not stable. They're constantly recorrecting. They're not like rock-solid.

When the beginning of the fight, everybody is rock solid. Everybody's moving. In the end, there's like a laxity to the movement. You see the fatigue set in. There's like these telltale things.

And Marvin didn't have that. There was no laxity. It's like the storm's coming. Being across from somebody like that must just be the worst. They never get tired. There's a famous moment when Khabib fought Edson Barboza where Edson has this thousand-yard stare because Khabib took him down again and he's beating him up and you realize Edson's like,

This is never going to end. I cannot get out of this. I'm never going to get this guy off me. Yeah. I can't stop him from taking me down, and he's just mauling me. Every time he takes me down, he's just punching my fucking face in. And that's how Conor felt when he was fighting Khabib, too. At the end, he's just, like, tapped. Like, fuck it. It's over. Yeah. I mean...

That fatigue makes cowards of us all. It's got to be the most accurate quote of all time. And the only way to develop that kind of endurance is through insane work.

insane work, just insane volume. And then constant consistency, constant volume, discipline, intensity, never ending, go, go, go, go. Where your body just has to keep up. Or it doesn't and it breaks. And then eventually you get like Cain Velasquez towards the end of his career.

His shoulders were getting fucked up. His knee was fucked up. His back was fucked up. After a while, he was too mentally tough for his own physical form. His body just couldn't tolerate it anymore. Yeah, I wonder what the limit is nowadays. Because we talk about...

Back then. And we talk about how it's changed because you said something talking about, I think, Sonny Liston talking about when he was 38, that was different. 38 than now. Joe Lewis. Yeah. Or Joe Lewis. OK, so nowadays, what what is what are people capable of? Because when you talk about the nutrition, the science, though, you know, it's who knows? Because you said you said something like your body will break if you push this a certain amount. Yeah.

I think there's a difference between endurance activities and combat sports. And there's something about combat sports that it's fractions of a second you miss. So there's only been a very few fighters that fight at an elite level deep into their 40s. The best example is Bernard Hopkins. Bernard Hopkins fought at a world championship level when he was 48, 49 years old.

He was different because he was, first of all, very intelligent, never got out of shape, never cheated on his diet, never partied, never drank, never smoked, never got fat, always trained, always in shape, and also very intelligent with his boxing. He was super defensively responsible. He didn't fight like Hagler where he just weighed himself into the fire trying to break guys down.

Bernard was using like clever boxing and really good defense. Defense was number one. You didn't have to like his fights. Some of them in the beginning people thought it was boring because he would hold on to guys and he wouldn't let the guys hit him. But he won fights and he didn't take a lot of damage. And so he was able to do it deep in their 40s. But most people, by the time you're 37, that's usually when the wheels start to fall off if you're natural. If you're natural.

The thing about today is with boxing, especially in the off season, no one can stop you from doing peptides and growth hormone and testosterone replacement. No one can stop you. As long as you're not getting VADA tested, and that usually generally they do that during camp, and as long as you're not getting randomly tested like you saw they used to do with the UFC where they just show up at your door. Yeah.

If you just get weighed in and then the State Athletic Commission drug tests you, like in Nevada, that's an intelligence test. Yeah, right. That's how certain guys were able to maintain their power going up in weight class, multiple divisions. For sure there's some Mexican supplements involved in that. For sure. Yeah. And that's different. So if you're doing –

and hormone replacement and all that, then you're extending your athletic career deep, deep, deep into your 30s and maybe even into your 40s. But combat sports are just a different animal. Yeah. It's different than just running. Like, you're getting hit. And, like, your ability to hit back is based on your ability to absorb punishment. And you only have so many times that ticket can get punched before your chin goes, before, you know, you can't take it anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like for fighters, it's very rare that a guy can perform at the highest level like in the late 30s. Randy Couture, he did it. He didn't even start his career until I think he was 34 or 35. He was an MMA fighter.

Yeah, and he went late, beat Tim Sylvia. In his 40s. Yeah, yeah. So what's your training like nowadays? Because you're shredded. I'm doing a lot of kettlebells still, always. You know, I'm doing that regularly. I'm doing a lot of rucking, too, getting ready for elk season. I've been doing a lot of walk hills regularly.

There's a big hill in my yard that I like to walk to with farmer's carries and shit. Yeah, like down. There's that Tom Haviland guy that I've been following a lot from Australia. And one of the things that he does, he carries stuff. So I'll carry heavy shit and walk around the gym with it. There you go. I think there's something to that, man, really, like for overall strength. Yeah. But I've been staying with a lot of the body weight stuff that I do. I do a lot of that stuff with a weighted vest too.

A lot of chin-ups and dips and pull-ups and L pull-ups, you know, where you do like hold it tight and then lift the legs out. I'm doing a lot of those leg lifts too where you're hanging and just with a straight body and then lift your legs, you know, hinge at the hips, lift your toes all the way up to the top of the bar and then slowly drop them down and up and that.

Doing a lot of that, too. And just mixing that up with bag work and all the different things that I always like to do. But I've been super consistent. I've been real consistent. Going to be ready for elk season? Oh, fuck yeah. I'm excited. I'm already excited. How many elk hunts? I have two. One with you and one with Evan.

That's generally what I do. But I have a lot of opportunities around Texas for pig hunts, which is nice because people are begging you to hunt pigs. Yeah, they're tearing up the land here. I got a text from a friend of mine the other day who's a movie producer. And he's like, please, come to my ranch and kill some of these pigs. They're just everywhere. That sounds fun. Yeah, because they have to kill them. I mean, there's millions.

millions of them in Texas and I'm not exaggerating. Oh, and they're, yeah. And they just reproduce so quickly. Yeah. So the good thing about that is it really gets you tightened up for elk season. You know, really get a lot of targets in, you know, bow shooting good and get some good sausage. Yeah. Bow shooting. Great man. Yeah. Oh, it's shooting. Great. Archery country, archery country. What's going on there? You and me are part of the owners now. Oh yeah. Is that public now? It is now. Yeah.

Yeah, that's exciting, isn't it? It is. We're business partners, buddy. I know. That's fun. Yeah, and Evan and Tyler's the man, so it's cool, everybody together. Pretty exciting. Really fun. Yeah, we got big plans to do something really cool with a place here in Austin. That's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. A lot going on. It's a lot happening. Archery's so much fun. Oh.

The best. Dude, I just got this set up. I just love shooting bows. You got another one? Yeah, this is a brand new one. Why'd you get a different one? Well, I had to get it in the Sitka. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Ooh, that does look good. So we had the Origin on that. Is this 80? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good-looking bow. Yeah. But yeah, so some changes. Yeah.

Had to get in Sitka and we're rocking. Oh, yeah. So you said Truett ran in Origin Jeans. No, he didn't. Not true. I thought he did. Yeah. He's running in what? What's the company that he uses? It's called Perfect Gene. Oh, I saw Jesse Michaels was repping those too in one of his YouTube videos. Yeah. Anyway, so.

Origin liked your call out, though, so that's good. Oh, there it is. There's a perfect gene. Yeah, well, there's a lot of people that make these great stretchy genes. Revtown makes a great pair. Barbell makes a great pair. Yeah. But he's so jacked for a guy who runs like that kind of time, sub-three-hour marathon. Nobody looks like him that's running those. Look at how jacked he is. Yeah, he's down to a – he just did Eugene, so he's set.

He got his fastest time ever in Boston on Monday. Look at that. No one's jacked like that doing fucking marathons and then also gets the world record in pull-ups. Yeah, and then he beat that time six days later in Eugene. That's nuts. So normally under three hours is fast. He did Eugene in 2.34. Wow.

He came in seventh place in the Austin Marathon and doesn't look anything like anybody else that's running. Everybody else looks like popsicle sticks. Yeah. I mean, part of it is like I told him when he was like that little guy, I said, hey, running is your thing. Just so you know, running is going to take you. And he hated it because I made the kids run. So you make a kid do something, they're going to hate it. Right.

So he kind of half-assed effort all through high school, did pretty good, was like all conferences a freshman, but that was as hard as he ever kind of worked. He just wanted to lift and he hated running. So...

I told him, I said, if you work hard, you could run in college. I mean, for sure. And he's like, I don't want to run for four more years. He's like so done with running. So finally now, now he has this goal of running under a 230 marathon. So that's in the 220s, which is fucking fast. What's like a world record?

Oh, down two hours. Two hours. Right over. When did that become the world record? What did it used to be? What was the world record in 1990? He did it again. Truett Haynes. Boston Marathon, 238. Right. He just beat that on Sunday in Eugene.

Yeah. So his lowest time is what now? 234. But he'll get, and there's Tanner. So Tanner did the Eugene Marathon in the middle at the bottom. That's my oldest son. Wow. With 35 pounds. What? Yeah, and in combat boots. Oh, my God. Him and his buddy Jake. That's so crazy. They both wore these big packs and still ran it in the fours. Wow. Yeah, so that's Tanner.

With combat boots. That's fucking nuts. So these guys, Truett's wearing jeans and a wife beater. Tanner's in a pack and hunting in combat boots. Hilarious. I wonder how like the normies view that. I wonder if that bothers them. All those dorks. No, the elite runners hate people like Truett. They call them like runfluencers.

Because part of it is the elites work so hard. They're so good. And the follow, it's hard to get a following when you're just a runner. So they see this guy and they're like, they can beat him because they're world class going to the Olympics. So Truett isn't there yet, but they're like this fucking Jack dork is running and getting all this. There's articles on them everywhere. Yeah.

And so that's why it's kind of the gatekeeping thing. Well, that's funny because then the haters work for him because it's unbelievably impressive. It's impressive. I don't give a fuck what you say. Oh, I don't like these people. They're the run influencers. Come on, man. The guy has the world chin-up record. He's obviously a freak. Yeah. He's obviously doing something that's very, very extraordinary. And if you don't want that because it's for us, it's only for us. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You're supposed to be skinny. Fuck off. Yeah, they don't. So Truett and Eugene got 25th place. I mean, Eugene is like the running capital of the world. The times have changed over the last 100 years. Interesting. So in 1908, it was two hours and 55 minutes. So in 1908, Truett would have the world record. Yeah. In 1956, down to two hours and 17 minutes. So 50 years later. Yeah.

2003, two hours and four minutes. And then 2018, two hours and one minute. So between three and 18, in 15 years, they only lost three minutes. Isn't that wild? Yeah. I mean, you get to the... You're just not going to get those big gains after...

Right. I mean, someone would have to be a fucking freak to drop under two hours, right? So they did this with, I think he got under two hours here. Wow. And he had all these pacers and people breaking the wind for him. Oh, is that different? I think it's Kipchoge. Yeah. He's like in white. That doesn't count as much?

Someone's breaking the wind for you? Right. You can't have official pacers just – if you're not racing them. Oh, there were pacers for him. Just for him. This is the Ineos pace challenge. So Ineos is that company that makes that Grenadier. Have you seen that truck? No. It's kind of a funny story. Ineos is like a chemical company, and the guy loved racing.

Range Rover Land Cruiser Defenders. Okay. And wanted to remake them when they stopped making them. They said no. He's like tried to buy their factory. They're like no. So he's like okay. I'll make my own. So he basically made a better Defender.

So these are new trucks that are way more durable, way better quality than those. If you get one of those classic Defenders, they look cool. But when you shut the door on them, it feels like you're closing a garbage can. Oh, I see. They feel like junk. They feel like these things are tanks. These are built, huh? Well, they're built specifically for off-roading. Oh, I see. But it's a brand new truck. Mm-hmm.

I never heard of them. Right. I know it looks like a classic Defender, but it's actually way better. Way better. I saw one in the flesh. I was like, oh, this thing is super legit. Like,

heavier gauge steel, like really tight tolerances, and I've watched a bunch of videos on them. They're all outfitted. Like you could take one of those hunting for sure. They're outfitted with electricity, like in the back. They're all set up where you could put like coolers back there, like a little refrigerator. Pretty sick.

Yeah, and they're literally from the factory set up for outdoors. Like, you don't have to do nothing to them. You could take them, do Moab with them, take them out into the fucking woods and go... We could still have Hennessy's...

like, sweeten them up a little bit. Yeah, it doesn't have nearly the kind of horsepower that, you know, like a Raptor has or anything like that. It's like, I think they only have like 300 horsepower or 208, which is not a lot, but it's the durability of the things, like the purpose-built things

So that's the same company, Ineos. Okay. That's the pace challenge. That race. Yeah, that's what that company is. Yeah. So the goal was to try to break two hours in that race. So he did. He got down to 159. I think he did. But with pacers. Yeah. So it's possible for someone to do that without a pacer.

That's what it kind of showed. It seems like it. Yeah. That's so crazy. It's super fast. That's so crazy. Super fast. Yeah. It's like what won Eugene was 217. So still, like, what was the world record back in, what was that, the 50s? Yeah. That's what won Eugene still. So that'll still win most marathons. Yeah. Fuck.

Yeah, it's flying. And the amount of work you have to do to get to that fast. That's what I do. I do sympathize with the pro runners because the work you have to put in to be elite. Whatever.

You get what you deserve. This is what you get in life. What you deserve. Yeah. Hey, throw some jeans on if you don't like it. Yeah. You don't like the fact that he's getting attention because he's a handsome guy who's jacked. He's wearing jeans. Fuck off. Do you think Courtney cares about that? No. Yeah. Right. Do you think she would be focusing on other people? That's people that want more than they're getting. What about me? I'm winning. No one cares. Yeah.

Well, we have gatekeepers in hunting, too. I don't know if you knew that. Yeah, allegedly. There's gatekeepers in everything. Well, there's always people that compare themselves to other people, and then they don't like what they find, so they try to find flaws in that other person. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah.

But there's that with literature, filmmaking, music, comedy. Fill in the blanks. There's always bitches. There's always bitches out there. And what do bitches do? They bitch. They bitch about everything. Sub 230 marathon in 2025 or die. Yeah.

Yeah, so he's going to get it. I mean, there's no doubt he's going to get it. He broke the world pull-up record. He did 10,000 pull-ups in 24 hours. That's nuts. And so people are saying like, oh, PEDs or EPOs. It's like we were at breakfast after the marathon. I'm like, I don't even know what the fuck EPO stands for.

Do you? I don't know, but I know what it does. Well, it's supposed to make more red blood cells, right? Yeah. That's what a lot of the Tour de France people were doing on the tour.

Yeah. Doing EPO. That's as much as I know about it. So I'm like, we were at breakfast and I'm like, do you think somebody in fucking Springfield, Oregon has EPO? What are you guys talking about? You could get it. But I don't think he's on it. But the thing is, like, fighters have been popped for it. EPO is real. Yeah. I think that's actually what TJ Dillashaw got popped for. Oh, is that? Yes. When TJ Dillashaw fought Henry Cejudo when he got all the way down to flyweight, he

The thing about that, though, is I understand why TJ did that because TJ was literally starving himself to death. Oh, he's trying to get to 125. Yes. Starving himself to death because he would have to cut a lot of weight to make 135. So he had this idea that he was going to become a two-division champion. Yeah, I remember that. He dropped out at 25, and he was just a dead man. He had nothing left. And it probably shortened his career. It really probably did. Yeah.

Because he looked like hell. And then Henry Cejudo took him out in the first round. You know, when you put – so this – I'm not trying to compare me at all. But I was losing weight trying – intentionally trying to get lighter for these races coming up. So I was – my same theory of burning 4,000, eating 3,000. So 1,000 calorie deficit a day.

Which is fine for regular life, but when you're put, I was also running a hundred miles a week. That's what my ham, my body just wasn't getting what it needed, but I was still trying to push hard. Right. That's why I got injured. What do you, what did you want your goal weight to be? 55. So at 155, then you feel like it's easier to run. What's the most you've ever weighed and run like a hundred miler? Oh, probably like 80. 180. Yeah. What was that like? It was hard. Yeah.

Because I think about that a lot of times when I'm wearing my weight vest because I have one of those outdoorsman's packs. So it's got the post on the back and I put a 45-pound plate on it. And so the pack probably weighs like five pounds and then the plates – so it's 50 pounds. That's like a normal thing that people have to lose. Yeah. It's a normal thing. Yeah. And I'm walking up hills with this thing. I'm like, this sucks.

This sucks. And this isn't even that heavy. Yeah. And some people, they have to lose 100 pounds. Like, what do your joints feel like, man? Because it hurts my feet. Yeah. I mean, you saw it. Jelly Rolls lost like 200 now. 200 pounds. He threw his phone away. He threw his phone away. Did he get it back? I think he got it back. Oh, no. I've been seeing some social media posts.

Well, I think he's got a guy who does that. Oh, yeah. That might be. Yeah, because I reached out to him, and it came up green. I was like, hmm, that's weird. Yeah, I did too. And so then I reached out to him on Instagram, and his social media guy says, I'll get this message to Jelly Roll, but he got rid of his phone. Oh, good. Because he had the same phone forever and years of...

drinking in bars and giving out his number because he's so nice. He'd give out his number to everybody. And apparently everybody was just blowing his phone up all day long and he's a superstar now and it's just like overwhelming. And I think

Like a lot of people, he was dealing with social media addiction, I'm sure. And then he's on this path to lose weight and get healthy. And so he just decided, chuck that phone away. Fuck these phones. No phone. Good move. I mean, he looks so good right now. He looks great. He's the opposite of Bert. He's the nicest fucking guy ever. He's not the opposite of Bert. Bert took his weight. They're going to meet in the middle. Yeah.

He's still got some ways to go. Bert will get, he'll be back on. And I do have to give Bert props. He is strong. Oh, he's strong. He's strong. So he, uh, he benched a lot. He beat me in benching. Did he really? Yeah. What did he bench? He did like 225, like 13 times, 10 times, something like that. Yeah. That's impressive. Cause back in the sober October days, when we're talking about when he had that challenge, he couldn't do it once. Really? Yeah. He couldn't do 225 once.

Because we all had this little contest, like who can do 225, and he couldn't do it at all. He's on PEDs. Yeah, he is for sure. He's definitely on testosterone. No, he's strong. But he works hard. And he just drinks hard too. I think I heard him say on here that he did pull back my 80-pound bow. Did he? Yeah. That's impressive. I know. I'm telling you, he's pretty strong. Because you know who couldn't pull back my bow? Alexander Gustafson.

Really? He fought in the UFC at 205. Yeah, he's huge. Yeah, he couldn't pull the bow back. Pulling a bow. He's like, is there a trick to this? I go, no, here's the trick. Just pull that fucker back. Pull that fucker back. Yeah, yeah. I do it 100 times a day. Yeah, I mean, if people haven't done it, it's tough. I...

I started incorporating, and this is probably a good thing for anybody who shoots archery a lot to do. I started incorporating what you told me, which was cable rows, standing up while holding a 10-pound weight. And it's making a world of difference because I was developing a pretty severe imbalance in

And then by being a meathead, I was pushing through this tendon pain that I was developing on my right lower side from just stabilizing and holding this 85-pound bow all these reps only one way. And it's like, that's not smart. Right. So I started switching it over. However many times I pull the bow back with my right arm, I'll do that same amount with cable rows while holding this 10-pound weight out. And it's made –

All the difference in the world. Because now I have tendon problems on my left side, too. So it balances it out. Perfect. Not really. It's not. But I do feel like a lot of soreness on that side when I do these long sessions. I'm hitting it. You're hitting it at least. And then I'm doing a lot of back extensions. And here's the big one, that reverse hyper extension.

You know, I've talked about that machine before. That machine is a goddamn life changer. But, dude, you have everything here. It's nice. Yeah, it's nice. I have to go to, like, four different places to get everything you have here. Yeah, the gym is pretty sweet. It's set up real nice. That reverse hyper is so big, though, because it pulls the back. Like, it's decompressing on the downswing. And, you know, when you stack the weight on there, I like to get about...

So I have two 45s on each side. And lately I've been sticking an additional 25 on each side. So a lot of weight. Yeah. So you're doing this swing up. So it strengthens the hamstrings and the lower back muscles. And then on a swing down, it's like pulling it. Yeah.

like stretching it out. And then I like to do that Dex machine where you hang from your hips, you swing down, and you're just decompressing the back. And I've been doing deep stretches in the sauna every day. Every day. Instead of just sitting in the sauna for 25 minutes, now I'm doing like heavy stretches. It's fucking so hard to do when it's 195 in there. Do you do the water? No.

What? You got to do the steam, dude. It's so hot in there, dude. I do it same thing, but you got to do the water. Are you stretching? No. You don't even stretch unless you blew out your hamstring. Do you do push-ups in there? Sometimes. Oh, man.

I want to get an exercise bike in there. I know people, there's one that's a sauna that's set up that way. It's called a fit sauna or something like that. Laird Hamilton has an airdyne bike in his. He's got oven mitts. He puts oven mitts on and rides the airdyne with oven mitts. That would be sick, dude. It would be sick. Yeah. I love doing the sauna, then right into the cold plunge.

Yeah, it's nice. It's nice. That's my... I do... I'm almost always doing the cold punch first. That's the beginning of the workout is cold punch. And then this whole body weight thing that I do to warm back up, 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups. And now I added 100 kettlebell swings. Okay. So I do three sets of 20, three sets of 20, three sets... Or five sets of 20, five sets of 20, five sets of 20. But I do them like one, two, three. So I do like...

First push-ups, then bodyweight squat, and then I do five cycles. So it's 100 of everything. And then by that time, I'm warmed up. It's like 15, 20 minutes later. So 500 reps or how many movements? Three movements, 100 each, 300 reps. So 300, you know, 100 swings, 100 push-ups, 100 bodyweight squats. And then did I hear no drinking anymore? No drinking for like two-plus months now. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm never going back. I mean, I will... Maybe I'll have a glass of wine somewhere if I feel like it. Like, I'm not an alcoholic. Yeah. But I feel stupid for waiting this long. Yeah. Because, like...

I would have these days where, because, you know, I have a nightclub, I have a bar. We go to the club, we do some shows, have a couple of cocktails with the boys, have a bunch of laughs, do a podcast, have some whiskey, have some laughs. And then the next day, like, ugh. Yeah. And I'd be going through my workouts going, oh, you fucking moron. What have you done? Yeah. And, you know, and I'd, you know, do the hyperbaric and drink a lot of electrolytes and try to flush it out. Try to flush it out.

If you're concentrating on improving your health and your fitness, why are you poisoning yourself? Yeah. Sabotaging yourself. But you also start thinking, well, that's the only way to have fun. You have to have fun too. But no. It's not.

It's not changing my fun. Goggins doesn't have fun. Well, he's different. He's not having fun. He's not trying to have fun. I'm trying to have fun. Like part of my job is fun. Like I want like fun is a prerequisite. Like as a comedian, like you have to be having fun. Yeah. As part of the fun of comedy is like enjoying it.

You enjoy it. They enjoy it. Everybody enjoys it. It's fun. And so I thought, like, maybe it would be less fun if I was sober. It's not. It's not any less fun sober. It's just as fun. And it's just I feel better. And this is one of the things that I've always tried to tell all these comedians.

And, you know, I bring a bunch of them in here and work out with them. We have these comedian workout sessions that we're doing. And, you know, Shane comes in here all the time and works out on his own. So does Derek and Hassan and all these guys from the club. But if you have more energy, you will have more energy on stage. If you have more energy, you could do more shows. You could do multiple shows a night. You don't get fatigued.

It carries over into comedy. Your body and your brain are inexorably connected. If your body functions better, your brain will function better. It's not rocket science. It's real simple. It's just nobody wants to do it. You can be the best comedian ever and never lift a weight and never work out. But if the best comedian ever did that too, I bet they would be better. I bet they'd be better at everything in life.

I would think. Yeah, it doesn't mean that the best person has to do that. Otherwise, you won't be the best person. No, there could be someone who's just so funny, it doesn't matter. They could be fat as fuck and be hilarious and barely walk and just be so funny just because they're just gifted. And they put a lot of time into comedy. But if they were healthier, they'd feel better, they'd enjoy life more, and they'd probably be better at everything they do. Not just comedy. Yeah. Everything. Yeah, I just... I mean...

On a different level, it's like when I was trying to lose that weight to get lighter, I came here. The last time I saw you, we saw you at Ways to Well. But I try to do everything perfect. But just being on the road, traveling to Texas and going back, I could not get my body weight back down for like four days. Wow. And it's not like I was drinking or eating donuts. Yeah, just, you know, you go to that.

That steak place at the hotel I'm staying at, really good. Remember those big steaks we had? Yeah. And I'm like eating this meat going, how much fucking sugar is on this thing? I mean, they put brown sugar on it. That's why it tastes so good. Which place is that? You ate there. Which place is that? Me, you, Evan, and Tyler. Right. It's at Omni.

Barton Creek Omni? Right. Oh, Bob's. Bob's. No, they don't put sugar on their steaks. Something is on there. Well, you're eating that carrot. No, no, no. That carrot seems to be glazed. I'm going to eat that fucking carrot. That carrot's awesome. That carrot's the size of a football. Like, what fucking lab in China are they growing them carrots? I know. Okay. But the meat has to have sugar on it. Really? It's too good. No.

No. Yes. I don't think so. Okay. Well, then why could I not get my body weight back down? I think you're eating mashed potatoes and stuff, too. You're eating a bunch of other stuff as well. I don't think their steaks have sugar on them. I think they do.

RFK thinks they do too. He's banning them. He's banning Bob's. There's so many good restaurants out here. Yeah, there is. This fucking town has so many good places to eat. Yeah, but my point was, if you deviate a little bit from a disciplined, perfect diet...

Yeah. It takes a while. So your body is... Point is, to all that, your body's so fucking sensitive. When you get so dialed in on everything, man, you really realize how little it takes to throw you off. Yeah. So imagine drinking fucking poison. Well, that's the thing, too. Yeah, everybody I know that has an aura ring or wears a whoop strap, like, if you wear a whoop strap, you know, it'll show you how much you recovered through the night. Right, yeah. And if you drink...

You will notice a big dip if you have one cocktail. One cocktail will be a big dip in the amount of recovery you have. And you won't even notice it. You'll be like, ah, I wasn't even drunk. Well, if you're not trying to perform and do something, you won't notice it. Like a regular person at a regular job, maybe you'll feel like a little sluggish. But it's when you start to like,

Work out and perform and run and you're like looking at these times or you're on the scale and you're like what the fuck is going on Yeah, yeah crazy. Well, most people are just used to feeling like garbage Well think about most people's diet and if they just cleaned up their diet and then just cut out all the nonsense Cut out all the processed food cut out all the sugar cut out all the sugary drinks and just drink water and eat healthy pure Whole foods you would feel so much better, but most people aren't doing that

So they're accustomed. They think this is what you're supposed to feel like. This is life. It's like having water in your ear and you forget and then it pops and you're like, oh, fuck, I can hear now. Like they're walking through life with water in their ear and they think this is what it sounds like.

But it's just, you're poisoning yourself. Yeah. If you're eating the standard American diet, if you're eating fucking burgers and fries, drinking soda and eating candy, you are poisoning yourself. I went, I was coming back from Iran and I don't, I think I was dying of thirst. So I usually take like a Visa in my short so I can buy something.

But anyway, I went into Fred Meyer back there at home and I never go shopping. I don't even remember the last time I was in a grocery store. I don't. But I was walking down the aisles of a regular grocery store and I was like,

Holy shit. I want to eat all this stuff. It looks, it's fucking terrible, but looks as bright colors. It was just like I, every aisle, I don't know what I was looking for. Supposedly something to drink, but I don't know what, but I just kept walking down the aisles going, I haven't eaten any of this shit in so long, but it looks so good. And then I was thinking, that's what most people are buying and eating. Yeah.

The shit. Yeah. No wonder you feel terrible. Yeah. Most of what you're eating in the supermarket, most of what you can buy in the supermarket is terrible for you. Yeah. The whole center area. Right. It's just all bullshit. Yeah. You know? Unless it's like tomato sauce or whatever. And even that, a lot of that has like seed oils in it if you buy it from a shitty company. It's a lot of garbage. Yeah. People are eating a lot of garbage. And that's the average person. Yeah.

And then you have a doctor. You don't need vitamins. Oh, you don't. Just have a balanced diet. Shut up, you fucking slob. You doughy sack of shit with old information. Well, so here's the point. I just remembered my point. So I was trying to buy donuts because I was doing an ultramarathon the next day. So you saw like me and Courtney running. Normally, it doesn't matter what type of calories when you're working that hard. You just need calories and salt. Right.

And sugar. So I'm like, I'm going to get some old-fashioned donuts because I was going to do this 50K. I'm like, that would be perfect calories. So you know where I found the donuts? In the fucking produce over there with the vegetables. So they're like...

hiding little treasures. You're trying to be healthy. Like, oh, get a fucking apple. Then you're like, look at an old-fashioned donut. You're like, fuck this apple. I'm going to get these donuts. So they still sabotage you. Yeah, I wonder if there's a marketing strategy involved in that. I wonder if they had a meeting. Like, look, people are trying to eat well, but we can fuck them. The algorithm. Yeah, it's like the algorithm. It really is kind of like the algorithm. They're predicting everything. That's the other thing I've been doing. I'm basically off of social media.

All I'm doing is I still allow myself to look at it if I'm taking a shit. But I try not to linger. So now every time you send me something, I know you're shitting? Most likely. Or someone sends me something. That's going to taint it. Well, I sent you YouTube videos. That's different. I was watching that actually at home on TV. I was watching that on the big screen. Because I was interested last night in watching something.

Every night is a different, if I get like some downtime and I can relax a little bit and watch something on TV. Sometimes I like watching a show, you know, a fiction show like Mobland or something like that. But sometimes I get on these kicks where I want to watch certain things. And last night it was like old school fighters training.

And I just got – I went down this rabbit hole. I watched old school Sugar Ray Robinson too. That was amazing. He was another one, super dedicated to his craft. Again, trained harder than anybody but also trained smarter. He would move different than people because he was a dancer. He actually retired from fighting for a brief period of time just to be a dancer and performed like in dance shows.

Wow. And then went back to fighting. So he could move, man. And footwork. Yeah. But it was intentional. It was all like there were certain moves that he had programmed into his footwork and movement and his balance, his ability to get out of the way and fight.

And, you know, he was fighting at a time where those guys were fighting like every couple of weeks. Yeah. They fought a lot. Crazy. What's your, so you said fighting sometimes, but what is your go-to on YouTube do you think you watch most? If I want to just zone out.

It's Professional Pool. I like watching Professional Pool. That's my number one addiction is playing pool. So that comes up on your recommended list on YouTube? Yeah, mostly pool. And then Ancient Civilizations. Ancient Civilizations is number two. I love watching videos on these mysteries where they're just uncovering. I was watching this whole thing in Malta about Malta the other day.

where they found these elongated skulls in Malta that are missing the characteristics of a normal human skull. So a normal human skull has, I think it's called a sagittal crest. There's a line that goes down the middle like this. It's like a, you know, like as you're growing as a baby, you have like these...

plates in your head that move around and they expand as your head grows and there's like lines. So there's a line that goes straight and there's a line that goes like this across. These heads don't have that. They don't have the line that goes straight. But they're elongated human skulls and they have a line that goes in the back but they don't have the line that goes down the center. And they're trying to like make sense of this. Like what is this? What is this? And Malta...

is a giant mystery. Like Malta is this island that used to be at one point in time before the flood, it was connected to Sicily. And they know Neanderthals lived there like thousands of years before, you know, recorded civilization.

But they didn't think homo sapiens did. But they found these elongated skulls that are different than any human skull. And then they found these incredible stone constructions, these stone buildings and immense stones that have –

crazy erosion on them that they think is more than 6,000 years of erosion. So they're trying to figure out, like, what happened? Like, what is this? How old is this? Is this from before the flood? Is this when, before the Ice Age? Like, what the fuck is this stuff? And why are these elongated skulls there?

Yeah, that's nuts. Bizarre stuff. Yeah. Bizarre stuff because it's like there's so many mysteries in terms of like the human race and how long people have been building things. And every now and then they'll uncover something that pushes everything back. Like they used to think the first people in North America were like 13,000 years ago. It was Clovis first. Then they found these footprints in New Mexico that are 22,000 years old. So like, well, okay. Yeah.

Well, that's not number one. That's not like the first person to come here. There's like probably people even before that. Yeah, but there's very little information and then there's this like crazy stone wall that they found in Montana and it was on private property and No one even knew it was there and these people they just were clearing some land and they found this fucking wall and

I think it's called the Sage Wall in Montana. But these immense stones that looks like they were placed there. Who knows how long? And there's people arguing, oh, this is like natural. This, this is it. Whoa. What the fuck is that, dude? So that was all covered with tree. By the way, it goes deep into the ground, too. It goes like 10 feet deep into the ground. Wow. So they're like, okay, is this a natural formation? Yeah. It doesn't look natural. No.

It looks like human beings placed those stones. Yeah, it looks like it was placed there. Yeah. It's really weird, man. And look, there's weird stuff about it. There's definitely something. Someone made that. That has a circle that's carved into it, and then there's that sort of structure that looks like it's the outline of it. Right. So-

There's a lot of arguments. Like that one photograph right there, that photograph's fucking crazy. That looks fake. Yeah. Is that fake? That looks fake. That one's fake? Are you sure? I can't remember the rest of them. Well, let's see which one is fake and which one isn't because some of them – that one on the upper left-hand is definitely real. And these – like I said, these go down deep. They've done like – they've used like –

machinery or sensors to find out how deep that goes. And it goes like 10 feet down deep into the ground. Like we'll get that one with the rock on top of it. That flat rock up there. Like what is that? Right. Yeah. There's a lot of weird, weird stuff when it comes. So if this is manmade,

How fucking old is that? Yeah. Like, how old is that? There's nothing else there? Just that wall? Yeah. Or maybe is there other... Because they didn't even know this existed. I think it was until the 90s. Wow. 96. 96? Yeah. So what other stuff is out there that people haven't uncovered that is covered with ground? It's another thing they're finding out about the rainforest. They used to think the Amazon rainforest was like these little patching tribes of people. Well, there's a guy that...

visited in the 1500s and he said that there was like these crazy temples and these huge structures and cities with millions of people. And then new explorers went a hundred years later and they found none of these things because that fucking first guy probably gave everybody diseases and killed the entire continent, which is nuts. Like probably killed everybody that lived in the Amazon. Yeah.

Like the Amazon at one, I was watching another documentary on this the other night. They found, they use LIDAR. So there's LIDAR, they fly over it and they use these sensors to detect these structures that are deep in the rainforest that are covered with trees. And they're finding all of these corridors and squares and things that seem to indicate irrigation and structures. And like, this is nuts. Wow. So there was like millions of people living in the Amazon and

And some dirty Europeans came over in the 1500 and gave them their cooties and they all died out. Yeah. Just like what happened with most of the Native Americans. Mm-hmm.

Like most people think like most people don't know. But the Native Americans, like 90 percent of the Native Americans were killed by disease. That 90 percent of the population died off by disease, which is crazy. Yeah. Millions of people living this nomadic life in North America while the Renaissance is going on over in Europe. These people are using flint arrowheads and.

Yeah. Nuts. They didn't even have horses. They didn't even have horses until the Europeans came over and brought them. The whole thing's crazy. Yeah, it is. That reminds me. That's what I'm watching a lot of. That's your go-to? Yeah. I'm just absolutely fascinated by ancient civilizations and then these mysteries.

Like the pyramids and these structures they found under the pyramid. Have you seen that? Yeah. That's great. What is that? I've heard talk about it basically. I don't know if it's right. I don't know if it's wrong. I mean I know some people think it's nonsense. But the researchers seem to think that they've done multiple scans and gotten the same results over and over again. And they're like whatever these things are, there's pillars and there's spirals around the pillars. And it's –

It goes deep into the ground, and the whole structure is two kilometers deep. Yeah, I think I heard you talk about that. I heard that I thought it was fake. Some people think that it can't be real because there's a water table underneath the Great Pyramid. That's what it was. But the question is –

Is it real and there's a water table? Is this shit in the water? Yeah. Like, is it so... Were these people so advanced that they built these insane structures two kilometers deep through the water? That'd be nuts. Because, look, if they...

It's nuts that they could make the pyramid. I know. That still doesn't make sense. The pyramid itself is nuts. All the structures, the Temple of Luxor, all that stuff is crazy. So if they could make that, why are we assuming that that's the pinnacle of crazy? There might be crazier below the surface that is like – We haven't found yet. Right. Imagine if everybody thought that the most advanced buildings that were ever created were like –

Buildings they built in Chicago in the 1800s. You know wow look at this This is a what craftsmanship boy people had reached an incredible level of ability And then someone stumbles upon the period and like the pyramid okay wait. Yeah, what the fuck is this? There's two million three hundred thousand stones in this and they weigh between two and eighty tons and they're cut from a quarry Hundreds of miles away some of them yeah move through the mountains like wow so that's

Crazy. And imagine we think, well, this is the height of crazy. Well, you go under the surface of it below the ground. What is this two kilometer deep structure? Yeah. That's even crazy. That makes that look simple. Right. It's well, then these people are just moving stones. How the fuck did they get it through the water? What I think of when I hear that is could you imagine the hunting back then? Oh, my God. Epic. Probably. But you have shitty bows. Yeah.

You didn't have a nice bow. You didn't have a bow. Could you imagine if you had a sick bow? Oh, my God. If you had a modern bow back then? Yeah. There's two things that I thought of. But, you know, when bears get old, they get a crease in their skull. Yeah. So it was like when you're talking about that skull, I was wondering if it was age-related. I don't see how the lions would disappear. No, the lions wouldn't disappear. That was the argument of this video that I was watching. See if you can find any of those elongated skulls of Malta. There was...

This is a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah. I'm seeing urban legend. It's been talked about 10 years ago. They were on display. They weren't on display. Yeah, but they're definitely not an urban legend because this was – I was watching an actual archaeologist discussing these things. And then there was an alternative guy that was discussing and saying –

that the issue is with these lines in the skull don't exist in these skulls. But they were all admit that these skulls... Well, there's different ones. This is ancient aliens. I just Googled Malta skulls. Just go with... That's what I'm saying. There's different stuff that comes up all the way from Malta websites that talk about it because this is something that people would want to go see. Right. Let's click on that one. See if they have any images on display. Because this is...

Accepted by actual archaeologists that there's because human beings have been doing weird stuff with so that's it right there So you see how that skull has that line through the top? Most skulls have a line straight down the middle - that's how human skulls are. So this is weird These are now also here's the thing could totally be a human that has genetic anomalies. I

Like there's these people in Africa that have – they call them ostrich feet people. There's this weird genetic anomaly that this whole village has where their feet, instead of having five, like a big toe and four little toes, they have like branched off like an ostrich. Yeah.

Like it looks really strange. And that's real? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's totally real. And it's real today. But it's a genetic anomaly and it's been passed on through these people in this one tribe, in this one area. So it's like someone had it. So it could be that, right? It could be that that skull looks weird because these people were just born weird. Right, yeah.

Some people are born with giant noses. Some people have huge heads. Some people are like seven feet tall for no reason. Big dicks. Yeah, giant hogs. We've been afflicted with that. Humans vary quite a bit. So it could be that that's why that skull looks that way. But it is absolutely fascinating.

And one of the things that they keep finding is new versions of human beings, which is really weird. Like they found the Denisovans. I think they found those in like 2010. And then there was – what is the recent ones, Jamie, that we were talking about that have the big heads? There's these big-headed like –

Not Homo sapien, but like cousins of Homo sapiens that they just found these like really recently within the last few years. They're like, okay, this is, we thought these were Denisovans. This is a totally different branch. And so there's multiple branches of human beings that coexisted along with Homo sapiens and Neanderthals for a long ass time.

Yeah. Scientists may have discovered a new form of ancient humans known as large head people. So this is in December of 2024. Wow. The Julu-Julu-Julu-Julu-Ren. Large brains. Julu-Ren. Large headed people. So they took like these skulls and tried to make like a recreation of what they look like. And they look like these jacked looking hairy cave people. They look pretty badass. That's not her. Yeah.

She looks hot. She doesn't look anything like that. You wouldn't survive back then if you looked like that. So you can find an image of what they recreated because the image looks pretty cool. So where does hunting videos fit in your YouTube algorithm? I watch those too. I watch all yours, of course. I watch a lot of different. I was watching some of Remy's videos last night. That one and the one right there. Yeah.

There's a video of one standing up. See if you can find images. There's one that we looked at before where the dudes are standing up and he looks super jacked. Yeah, that's it. So this super jacked, hairy dude. God, I would hate to see that guy out there. Thick ass bones. Yeah. Like Neanderthals. They were way different than us. They were way more jacked than us. He looks like a beast, doesn't he?

You had to be to survive. And he made an arrowhead it looked like he had in his hand or something. Yeah, something. You know, I mean, Neanderthals, they did art. You know, they made cave art. Some of the cave art they know for sure was Neanderthals. And some of it is pretty sophisticated. Slightly different rendering. Whoa.

That's what they looked like. Fred Flintstone kind of. Bro, those things would have fucked us up. Imagine that guy in the UFC. You'd be like, oh, Jesus. Imagine the guy on the right has to fight the guy on the left. Are you fucking kidding me? Not good. So this is like this big, dense. It's kind of weird that we survived, especially if you look at some of those marathon runners. Like imagine those people survive while that thing's around. Those things probably ate people.

Like, look at, that's what they think they looked like. God. Fuck. Yeah, that'd be rough. Super dense, giant, jacked human beings. Oh. That one in the corner where he's walking.

To the right. Far right. Keep. Yeah. Look at that. Like that's what they think they look like. Yeah. Fuck that. Imagine you walk through the woods. You see that dude there. That's. That's where. Fuck. What is fascinating to know is like. That's what I do like about the endurance stuff that we're doing is those people. Do you imagine how far they can get in a day? Oh yeah. Probably hundreds of miles. And so nowadays we're so far the other way. Yeah. Where if you. If you walk a mile you've done something. Well.

Well, you're eating everything in the middle of the supermarket and you're watching video games, playing video games all day. Some kids aren't even playing video games. They're watching other people play video games. That's what's like. It's pretty cool to think about. We're still making our bodies go. So this 250 mile race, uh,

I mean, that's kind of cool. Yeah, it is cool. But back then they probably did that shit all the time. All the time. So we're built for that. Yeah. You know what I mean? They probably had to. Of course they had to, but like-

Humans as a species are built for endurance. So that's what I like about those events. Right. It's like this is what we're supposed to be doing. Well, persistence hunting. Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. Where you just chase an animal down because animals don't sweat and people do. So you can't outrun them in a sprint.

Brent? No. But if you just keep chasing them, eventually they die. Yeah, stay on them. And then you just stab them when they're out of breath and you eat them. You got to be either an open country where you can keep eyes on them or be able to track them really well. Isn't that crazy that that was a strategy that humans employed? Just chase them until they run out of, they can't run. I think they still do it. Yeah. I think they still do it. I bet that's where some of the best marathon runners come out of too. Yeah, for sure. You know?

Yeah, they're so good at tracking in Africa because of that. It's just like they can stay on those tracks with no blood or anything because, you know, that's the name of the game. Keep your eyes on them. Yeah. Where I'm out. That's what's always fascinating to me, how guys can just look at the ground and see footprints where I don't see shit. Yeah. And some guys that are just really good at it, man. Yeah, I mean, they can follow tracks like across just solid rock.

And it's just looking at little scuffs. They can see little scuffs from the hooves. That's crazy. I've, I've, I've been over there, you know, hunting quite a bit and I would sit just as you just said, like, what are you seeing? And so I would ask them, it's, it's hard because they speak Swahili. So you got to,

It's hard figuring it out, but I was there for three weeks one time, so I kind of got dialed in. So I would ask, what are we looking at here? What are you seeing? Or it's just how grass... Grass will go a certain way, and then if it's not that certain way, it's because something made it. Something pushed it out of the way. Even if it's just a little bit of grass. Yeah. You just look for these moments. The small little tells. Yeah. So it's like being so...

That's another reason why I love the mounds, love being out. It's just you have to be so if you're going to be good at it in tune with everything. You have to be sensitive to almost everything. That's how you can get within bow range of an animal and get it killed or find it after you've put an arrow in it. It's like you're just deciphering all this information. Some people are good. Some people are. But mostly it's experience related.

Those people have learned in Africa, have learned from the best trackers there are. We haven't had to be that good here, but I've, I've wanted to develop that skill and just get better. But it's like, it's noticing the little, the,

Minute details. Someone had a really good argument. Do you remember who it was, Jamie, where they were talking about the invention of the bow and arrow? And they were saying the odds of this happening simultaneously all over the world are very unlikely. And that what's much more likely is that someone developed that technology and was traveling. And that when you go back to the earliest use of the bow, which I don't know when that was. Do you know when that was? Mm-hmm.

Let's guess. What would you guess? How many thousands of years ago did they figure out the bow and arrow? Oh, my. 3,000? I would say. I mean. It has to be before pyramids. Yeah. The pyramids are 5,000 or 4,500. That's the conventional. I mean, so many people think it's older than that. Let's say 10,000. 10,000 years for the bow and arrow?

So that means that someone had to be traveling because like the Native Americans had it. The Polynesians had it. Like everybody had it. Right. The Africans had it. Like everyone had the bow and arrow. Europeans had it. When was Mongolians? Oh, that was the 1200s. The rise of Genghis Khan was like the 1200s, 1200s to the 1300s.

Yeah, they had crazy bows. Yeah, they did. They had 160-pound pull. They had legit bows. Yeah, they were fucking people up with those bows. Yeah. Those guys, they say that their skeletons were distorted. You know, like I'm talking about like I'm trying to balance out my body because I'm pulling too much. Wasn't their forearm would get? Yeah, everything was jacked. Their shoulders, their back, everything was like torqued and twisted. Mm-hmm.

So let's guess. What did we say? I said 10. 10,000 years? You said. I'm going to say five. I believe what I just stumbled across is the earliest people known to have used bows and arrows were the ancient Egyptians who adopted archery in approximately 2800 BC. Okay. So roughly 4,800 plus years ago, roughly guessing. So how does it get to North America? How do those people get it?

So if the Native Americans, if we have evidence of human beings living in New Mexico 22,000 years ago, when did they pick up the bow? Who got it to them? Because by the time Columbus came in the 1400s, they already had it. So where'd they get it? Who taught them that? Yeah. Where'd they get it? Did they figure it out independently to put feathers as fletchings and to put a...

Yeah, look at that cool picture from Egypt. Wow. That is badass. That's crazy. Right, so were the Egyptians traveling all the way to North America? I don't know. Who figured it out first? They had some sick stuff. Do you remember who it was, Jamie? I changed the question, so I went down the other route. It was a fascinating conversation because I never considered it until they brought it up. They said, I don't think...

The bow and arrow just, he goes, I think that's technology that was shared, which is a great argument for world travelers. Yeah. Way before we ever thought there was world travelers. I was thinking about, was there land bridges that we don't know about? I don't know. Well, there definitely was, if you go back 11,000 years ago. I mean, that's when people were walking across the Bering land bridge and Michael Waddell. Oh, Michael Waddell. Was it him that was saying that? I believe so.

Look, I'm wearing the same shirt. What are the odds? Well, you guys, I know you guys were talking about, you know, Pope and Young went over on the boats and took, remember they took tubs of arrows? Yeah, because they were just slinging them. And they're going to be gone for like, what, seven months? Yeah. And then Waddell had some great stories about talking to his wife about, hey, I'm going to go hunt and be back next year. You know, because it's like so long of a boat ride. Yeah, man. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Just the people getting in boats back then was so nuts. I just know that, you know, Fred bear has that quote, the history of archery is a history of mankind. I always think of that. So as long as man's been around, we've had to kill, um,

The archery equipment is. Well, it must have just completely opened up the door for having more kids, for being able to survive and feed your family. Because if you're just stabbing things, you got to get so close. And then you get an atlatl. Okay, how far can you throw that? Yeah. But then if you got a bow, like now all of a sudden all those fuckers over there are in trouble. Yeah.

You know, and they don't even know yet. They don't even know what to look out for. And there's things whistling through the air. Contradictory information. Oh, what is this? The four waves of bow and arrow use in North America, this occurred at 12,000. Whoa. 12,000. Yeah.

12,000 years ago. Yeah, that's why I started going down this hole. So it's pre-Egyptian. Is that 12,000 BC then? I don't know what evidence that has. No, 12,000 years ago is 10,000 BC. I think they found bows in different places. Whoa. That's nuts. I don't know for sure.

12,000 years ago. Yeah, see the Alaska Peninsula. Right. So again, so 12,000 years ago, now it makes sense that people are walking. So people from Asia could walk over. I mean, maybe it was made in Asia. Yeah. But 30,000. 30,000. I don't know what the evidence is. Sub-Arctic people first brought archery bow with them to North America from Asia 30,000 years ago.

Okay, how? So 30,000 years ago, people were supposedly dumb as shit. How were they figuring out how to make a stick fly through the air with a string? And kill things with it. And kill things with it. Yeah. And hunt. Mongolian people were the first to adopt the bow in the southwestern region of what is now called the United States. Whoa. Mogollon, not Mongolian. Mogollon. I don't even know who they are. 2,000 years ago?

Wow. Yeah. Just after Jesus? 30,000 years ago is nuts. But it's like, how does that get all around the world? I don't know. It's really interesting because it's not like there's a bunch of different versions of it. Yeah, because the physical characteristics of this bow are strikingly in several respects. So it's like- Yeah. Yeah.

There's no, it doesn't say what that is. That's a recurve. No, I just mean like when they found her. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I thought that they were saying that no matter where they found these bows, they were all very similar. Right, they had the fletchings. It goes to your point of how did that information get around the world? How did they figure that out? Yeah.

First recorded use of archery barter quite early in human history. Images from the Paleolithic and Mesolithic cave paintings, 10,000 B.C. In Spain and France depict groups of simple silhouetted figures using the bow as both the weapon of combat and the hunt. See if you can find some of those images. The Mesolithic. That's that one documentary, The Cave of Dreams. It's a Werner Herzog film. I think that's what it's called.

Is that you down there? Looked like it. Whoa. Isn't that sweet? That's crazy. Look at that one. Look at that one. Go to that one. That one right there. That's crazy. 7,000-year-old bow and arrow painting. God. Wow. That's what, you know, anytime I get those people in there for a lift-run shoot and Wayne starts talking to him with the bow rack, he's just like showing them how to shoot a bow. And people are like, they get it. He's like, feels familiar, right?

He goes, because that's what man's always done. That's why it feels familiar. So it's like people who have never done it all of a sudden are like, they're like, oh, this stirs something up in them. It does resonate, right? It does resonate with your DNA. You can tell.

You know what I tell people? It's like, you know when you catch a fish? Like even when kids catch a fish. I remember when my daughter caught her first fish. The excitement is genetic. Oh, oh, oh, you got one, you got one. How do you know you're supposed to be excited? Right. Why are they exciting? Yeah. Why is it exciting to catch a fish? Because it's programmed into your DNA from the time we were kids.

figuring out how to catch fish that if you caught a fish, you get to live. You get to eat it. So you get a reward. Your body gets excited about catching that. That's that same feeling. That's why people like when they can shoot something and it hits the spot. It's not like throwing a basketball through a hoop. That's kind of fun, but it doesn't have the same feeling.

No. There's a feeling of archery when you hit something. It's like, oh, yes. Yeah. You see an animal, you're like, I wonder if I could hit that with my arrow. Yeah. You just want to shoot at stuff. Yeah. Well, I was at the zoo the other day. I was sending you pictures. I know. Yeah. I zoomed in on animals with a little red dot. I mean, I'm driving and I see horses, cows, whatever. And I'm like, I see cows, legs forward. I'm like, oh, God, I could get an arrow right in the lungs there. Perfect. Perfect.

That's just what you kind of program your brain to see. Right. But it's also like the same drive that leads you to run all these miles to be at your best. And that also makes you concentrate on being accurate at archery all the time and thinking about archery all the time.

If you don't, you won't be as good as you can be. If you want to be as good as you possibly can be, you have to kind of think about it that way. All-encompassing. Yeah. All-encompassing. Take over your fucking brain. Yeah. Imagine if you can get those people from back then to like, let me show you some shit.

I would love it. This is called a hog father. I've wanted to go over, like there's these people that have, God, what tribe is that? That have an Instagram page. I think they were the red stuff. I think in Africa. I think I've sent you that. I want to go and hunt with them so fucking bad. Yes, Maasai. I want to go over there so bad and just hang out.

They would probably freak out when they saw your bow. Like, what are you doing? I know when I went to Tanzania, I would just shoot it like they'd put up like a buffalo quarter. The Hadza also do it. The Hadza, too. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. That's the people that David Cho went over and hung out with, right? 2.3 million followers. Whoa! Yeah, that's not the one I was thinking. Interesting. Influencing. Yeah, there's an influencer. What's that lady doing there? The upper left lady. What's she doing with the Hadza?

Well, let's wrap this up, Cam. Your book, perfect title, undeniable. It is a perfect title. It really is. I mean, that's one of the things that we always talk about. Like, you got to be undeniable. Yeah. It's a perfect, perfect name. I just think it captures what we're trying to do in life. Yeah. Yeah. What everybody's trying to do in life. If you're really trying to do something well.

You know, you're going to have some haters. What's the best way to silence haters? Win. Be undeniable. Be undeniable. So if you're talking shit, you just look like an idiot. You just look like a fool. Here's what I've learned. This is going to be, this is probably going to hit pretty hard. I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but...

but it pays to be a winner. No, I undeniable to me. It's like the people I've had on, I've learned so much from you're featured in the book, but it's like, what makes people undeniable? What allows people to regardless of what they do to rise to the top. And it's, there's certain characteristics of each person and what it is. It's like, they have this overwhelming passion for,

for whatever they're doing. It's like that's all they care about. It's all they think about. Rocky Marciano, Goggins, whoever you know of. You think of like a person's name doing something, they're obsessed with whatever they're doing. Speaking of obsessed, I'm obsessed with getting something right. I think the sagittal crest is actually the peak of the skull that gorillas have. I think I fucked that up. I think there's a different word. I was looking for a different word for those cracks.

In the skull. It's not sagittal crest. I think the sagittal crest is that thing that separates like what a gorilla skull looks like versus a chimpanzee skull. There it is. Yeah, that's the sagittal crest. That's that ridge bone. Yeah. So what are those lines called? Oh, it's a suture. That's right. That's right. That's what they call it. So there's a coronal suture and then there's the other one.

Fucking heads are weird. Imagine that's a person. I know. How fucking weird that is. See that weird? So that's what a normal person looks like. They got that weird line. Oh, that's what. So it's a peridial foramen. So that's the sagittal suture. And then there's this other suture. Lamboid.

What's that other suture called? See that lambdoid on the left there? Yeah, lambdoid suture and the sagittal suture. So that's what the sagittal is the line that they're missing, the one that goes up the middle.

Look at that gorilla head in the lower right-hand corner. Oh, fucking cool. Gorillas almost have like a mohawk in their skull because they have these giant muscles for chomping on fucking roots and shit. And you'd never – if you hit that fucker in the head, it wouldn't do anything. I would laugh at you. Have you ever seen – there's a 3D image. We can end with this. Yeah.

Because people always say, how many fucking people do you think it would take to beat a gorilla? Well, guess what? It literally doesn't matter. So somebody made like a – they do like recreations. Like let's find out. And so they –

what would happen. I just sent it to you, Jamie. They show what would happen if a hundred dudes tried to fight a gorilla. Spoiler alert. A hundred dudes get fucked up. Look at this. This is what it would look like. Oh my God.

Like the gorilla's trying to run. It just turns around and just starts fucking people up. Holy shit. Yeah. You got no chance. Could you imagine taking a big right from that thing? I would watch the first couple dudes take a right and I would take a left. I would be like, see, I don't think gorillas are going to chase me. You just got to get his back. Nope. Nope.

If he did get on his back, he would just grab you with one arm and throw you fucking 50 yards. He would grab you and his grip would break your fucking rib cage. His fingers would probably penetrate your skin and go right through to your organs. He's just fucking all these people up. Boom, boom. That guy took a couple in a row.

The Russians probably tried this already. They probably already had it. Look at this. All these other guys are like, oh, I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going to give it my best. It's all a pay-per-view. Yeah, why are these guys still there? I don't know. Because they're being forced. Look, he's running, trying to little bitch-ass hammer fist to hit that gorilla. If you get your kind of bell rung a little bit and you're kind of dazed and then you're just standing there. Look how far everybody flies, too, when he hits them. Boom. Boom.

That would be a good one to end on, but here's what we really need to end on because last time...

Endure was like the number one seller and they put it number seven or something on New York Times. So we need, we need number one. We, we deserve number one. We should be number one this time. You didn't get number one because of some weird shit. It's not because New York, the New York Times bestseller list is an editorial. Yeah. That's what's weird. If it just goes based on sales, Endure would have been up there, but they gave me number seven.

So crazy that they just give me what I deserve. Why are you lying? I don't know. If you're going to have a top 10, why lie? You're lying. You can't decide that this one's a top 10 because it's made by a transgender person of color. Is it better? I don't know if it helps me to call them out or no.

They're going to fuck you no matter what. But America will know. But on Amazon, that's not curated, right? No, no. So that'll be legit. That's sales. That'll be legit. So that's the one that should count. But yeah, I mean, the whole point also I wanted to also end on, I wouldn't have had the success with those books if not for you.

You wrote the forward to Endure. It made the New York Times bestseller list. You know as well as anybody, the next book, if you can say from the New York Times bestselling author of Endure, that just makes the next one go crazy. So without you, this wouldn't have happened. Well, without you, I would have never been bow hunting. And we wouldn't own Archery Country. Yeah, we wouldn't own Archery Country. All right. Let's bring it home. Endure, it's out now?

It's out May 6th. May 6th. No, no. Endure's out. Oh, excuse me. Undeniable. Undeniable is out May 6th. Today is April 29th. So wait a week. Did you do the audio version of it? I did. Yes. I did. Yes. It was tough, but people love it. Yeah, they do. They want it in your voice. It has to be. It has to be in your voice. Well, Joe, thank you. My pleasure, brother. I love you to death. You're the best. All right. Goodbye, everybody.