686 Dave Asprey: Author of Heavily Meditated & Founder of Danger Coffee
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I am unwilling to give up, that I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Golden Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders,

We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. Let's go.

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to The Carol Golden Show. Super excited to have my next guest here. Today's guest is no stranger to shaking things up and upgrading everything in the process. Dave Asprey is an entrepreneur, four-time New York Times bestselling author, and

founder of Global Biohacking Movement, and now author of the new and completely awesome upcoming must-read, Heavily Meditated. I have it right here and very, very excited for you all to dive into it. It's called Heavily Meditated, The Fast Path to Remove Your Triggers, Dissolve Stress, and Activate Inner Peace.

You probably know Dave as the creator of Bulletproof Coffee and everything that he did with that brand to really change how we thought about coffee. He is now doing a different but also disruptive movement with his newest coffee, Danger Coffee, which is a mineral-rich reinvention of your morning cup that's as bold as he is.

So we'll talk about the science behind emotional regulation, why meditation needs a rebrand. I couldn't agree with you more, by the way, and how he's helping people stop reaching and start living on their own terms. So without further ado, welcome, Dave. So nice to see you. Thanks, Cara. It's so good to connect.

Yeah, absolutely. We were chatting right before we hit record that JJ Virgin and I think Joe Polish and a few other people had introduced us over the years. So very, very excited to be doing this. You've been so kind, Kara. You sent your water to the biohacking conference that I run. We're in our 14th year and you've just been so generous. So thank you. Absolutely. Well, thank you. I think coffee and water go really well together. So

One thing I tried that I don't recommend is brewing coffee with Hint water. You should use them separately.

Very, yes. Very, very separate. So I love it. Okay. So you say speed matters when it comes to finding peace. You talk about this in the book. What's the fastest daily shift that actually works? Well, a meditation teacher might tell you, just sit still for an hour in the morning with your back straight and feel the emotions wash over you and set them aside. And

And I don't have time to do that. And I don't think most of us do, although I'm willing to do that if it's the only way. This episode of The Kara Golden Show is brought to you by Range Rover Sport.

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And when you read heavily meditated, I go through all of the technologies and techniques to shift into specific chosen states more quickly. So I would say probably breathwork, depending on where you want to go. But maybe you should be putting a small electrical current over your brain. You should be blinking lights of a specific frequency into your eyes, or you should be playing a certain tone, maybe a Tibetan bell or something more technical.

So there are many different ways. Even shining infrared laser on your brain can rapidly activate parts of it. So where did you want to go? Maybe we should pick a destination before we decide how we're going to get there. So, so interesting. So have you always lived this way? I loved the book. And if you could share a little bit about sort of how you got to heavily meditate it, because it's different than your other New York Times bestselling books that you've written.

It is different, and it's part of an arc for the biohacking movement, which is a 25-year plan that I have since the day I introduced the term before it got to be a part of our dictionary now. So I have, for the last 25 years, worked in the field of longevity.

And I've worked in the field of consciousness. And what I've determined is that a lot of what we think of is our decisions or our consciousness is actually driven from inside our hardware and inside the cells in our body.

So my path has been both hardcore, show me the data. I'm only going to do what works. I'm going to lose 100 pounds. I'm going to figure out what exercise, what timing, what color of light, what kind of vibration, all the things to make my body and my mind work so I can think clearly, I can have all the energy I want, and I can live as long as I choose. That's amazing. And that's the beginnings of the biohacking movement.

At the same time, I started training with gurus around the planet. The idea for putting butter in coffee came from yak butter tea on the side of the holiest mountain in the world, which is a five-day drive on dirt roads in the middle of nowhere in Tibet. So that is a little clue. But if I started the biohacking movement saying, guys, you need to take your shoes off and go outside because it actually matters and you can measure it.

And I just said that. And I said, shine a red light on your brain or your body. It'll change your cell biology. No one believed this 15 years ago. When I introduced these ideas, people got mad at me or putting butter in coffee. Oh, my God. So you can only create change so quickly. And if I just started talking about altered states and meditation as a major focus, we weren't ready for that.

15 years ago when I started this movement and the world's ready now. So I'm kind of unveiling the last 25 years of spiritual practice, training with shamans, with gurus around the planet and studying for 10 years with CEOs, with electrodes attached to their heads, looking at their brainwaves, teaching them specific forms of meditation to shift their state. So I'm not just making stuff up. I'm not going to chat GPT and saying, you know, tell me something.

After 10 years of working with more than 1,000 super high-performance people, what moves the needle the most? That's what's in this book. And it is my most precious thing. People spend $20,000 a week to come to my neuroscience brain upgrade clinic called 40 Years of Zen. The process I take them through, you can do it at home without all the electronics. It's not as effective without the electronics, but it's effective. And that's in heavily meditated. So it's a major gift. I'm sharing my most precious stuff because we need it right now.

Yeah, definitely. Well, it's so good. I was going through the book and realizing that today is the day, right? That this is so relevant. I mean, for years, I think people start to hear things like meditation. Today, it's a very different concept than what

maybe they could hear 15 years ago when it seemed like that was, oh, that's for those people that go off to Bhutan or Tibet, you know, whatever. But today it really is about, okay, I can't go and do what maybe I want to do and travel and do all these things, but I'm

I can actually take some of these pieces that Dave talks about in this book and really help me to dissolve stress, activate inner peace, all of those things. So I'm so grateful for you for sharing all of this because I think it's really important. Thank you. I did the stuff that most people don't get to do because I was desperate in my early 30s. I'd made and lost all this weight. I'd made and lost $6 million. Right.

I'd been married and divorced before I was 30 or right after I was 30, I guess. And I'm like, I'm miserable. And so I said, I'm gonna have to learn how to be happy and how to be healthy. So I spent three months traveling around Nepal and Tibet studying with gurus. I have fasted in a cave for four days and wrote a book about it. And I have spent six months with electrodes on my head and studied with shamanic trainers. In fact, one of my shamanic teachers will be at the biohacking conference next

May 28th here in Austin, I'm sharing that kind of stuff. So I've done all those things because just doing the Western stuff and saying, I got my body healthy. You can be a healthy jerk or you can be healthy and in charge of your inner state. And you need to do both if you want to live a long time. Otherwise, why would you want to live a long time if you're miserable and anxious and upset and cranky and angry all the time?

Yeah, it's so, so true. So a few things that you talk about in the book, I've also heard you talk about it on different podcasts, but most people don't realize their reactions are running the show. They don't necessarily want to react to things, but they just keep doing it over and over and over again. Can you share how you start reclaiming that power? The first is understanding that it's actually not you doing that.

So if you were walking down a hallway and I jumped out of a closet and said, boo, you would jump and you'd startle, right? And you wouldn't feel guilty about that response. It was an automated response to keep you safe. So let me explain how our bodies process reality in the one third of a second before our brain even knows what's going on. So there's a one third of a second where your ego or your mitochondrial network gets to decide what you're allowed to see and what you're going to feel about it. So

The first thing that all life on earth does is it examines things to see if they're scary. And it puts about nine times more emphasis on things that might be scary because if it really is a tiger, you should jump. But if it's your mother-in-law, it might be a tiger. So you should also jump and it'll send you that emotion. It'll send you the physiological signals. And then your poor little meat brain, the one that we identify as ourselves, it gets a signal of reality that says it actually is a tiger. And of course, then you're going to yell.

So the first F word in reality processing is fear, right? And this is something that we always will have if we have bodies and it's useful. So you don't burn to death. You don't fall off things and you keep breathing. It's helpful. But if it's programmed the wrong way, you're going to be reactive and you'll think you chose to do it, but you didn't. Your body chose to do it because it has bad threat network detection. So there's fear and then food. All life on earth for 2 billion years eats everything in case there was a famine coming.

Right? So your body will, if you're an average person, there's a study on this. A third of the thoughts that we have are about tacos. Well, about food anyway. Every single day, one third of your waking thoughts, food, food, food. Okay. This is also trainable. And then the third F word that all life has to do to be around forever. You've read the book, so I can't trick you into saying an F bomb, but it will just say it's fertility.

What that means is if you walk into a room before your brain has a chance to register what's in there, your body has already decided, is it scary? Can I eat it? And can I hump it? Okay. Kara, have you ever done anything you're ashamed of that wasn't one of those three things? Interesting.

I probably, probably. I don't think so. I've never found someone who could name something. Well, actually, yeah. And I guess you categorize them into those things. So yeah, like procrastination. It's actually, you're not completing the work because some part of you is unconsciously afraid of it. So it makes the work look worse than it is. You didn't go to the gym because the body's like, well, if you spend a lot of energy at the gym, you might run out of energy. So eat the tacos instead of going to the gym.

Right. It's an either or. Exactly. And so it's natural and normal for laying on the couch, watching Netflix and eating cheesecake. It will always be sexier to your body than going to the gym or doing something hard. But then we feel guilty because we should want to go to the gym. No, your body is going to hate going to the gym and you should.

Use your willpower to overcome your body's laziness, or you could trick your body using other techniques. So the idea here, though, is all of the things that we don't like about ourselves are ancient survival, automatic behaviors in our body.

And inside your body is like a flopping Labrador retriever. You know, it comes into the house. It pees on the couch. You know, its tail knocks things over. It slobbers. Or it's a service dog that walks in and sits there and you put a piece of popcorn on its nose and it won't eat until you tell it to. You get to train your operating system in your body to be functional or dysfunctional. Or it's like your iPhone.

If you allow every app to have alerts going off all the time, you can't use your phone. Bing, bing, bing, bing. Your nervous system is alerting all the time and no one ever showed you the control panel to turn off the alerts in your operating system. And what does it feel like to us? It doesn't feel like bings because we would notice that. But what it feels like is you're triggered all the time. You can't do stuff. You get really angry. You say things you wish you didn't say.

And you do things that you wish you didn't do and you think it's you, but it's not. It's just an old system designed to keep you alive as if your brain wasn't even in there. And that creates so much peace. You can drop all the shame and guilt. Now you know what you're up against. Now it's time to train your nervous system and train your cellular networks to just behave. And it creates the most inner peace and it frees up so much energy. Because I mentioned the three F words.

Fear, food, fertility. The next one is friend. All life on earth, if it's not too afraid, not too hungry, and not too, we'll say unromantically connected, you're going to go to your community. You're going to support your life, whether it's a pride of lions or a tribe of humans or a glade of trees, it doesn't matter. You support others around you. In your bones, we're wired to be kind to each other. And the final F word is

For humans is forgiveness. And this is the technology or the technique that allows you to turn off fear. And if you can put less energy into fear, you have more energy to eat the right food. So fear becomes peace. Hunger becomes nourishment. Lust becomes sacred, intimate connection, which is a form of nourishment. And then your community, because you have enough energy for it, also becomes a source of nourishment. When you help them, they help you. And you have so much energy left over that

That, oh, I have enough energy to do the work to improve myself and to evolve. And this is the trick. Reduce friction, reduce waste, and just reprogram your system to not waste all of your precious energy on being afraid of criticism or being afraid of whatever it is that pushes your buttons.

It's so interesting. How long do you think it takes people to get through that process? Obviously, it's different for everyone, but if you've never done that before...

You can do about 80% of the forgiveness work you need to do in five days. And at the end of five days, you'll have the same brainwaves, usually. I mean, all brains are different, but you'll have the same general brainwaves as someone who has spent 20 to 40 years doing an hour or more a day of Zen meditation. Literally, you can have a meditator's brain in five days. It just takes really intense work for five days with computers hooked up to your head and a team of facilitators and neuroscientists. Or read heavily meditated. Don't spend the $20,000.

And it might take you a couple months. And if you can do it with a friend, it works better. And I give away the eight-step process. It's really precious. It is a new thing in the field of meditation and personal development. And interestingly, last weekend, Victor Chan, who is the co-author of two books with the Dalai Lama and his best friend, he went through the reset process with me on stage and just looked at me kind of stunned and said,

Dave, now that you've explained this, a lot of that stuff the Dalai Lama says makes more sense to me now. Because we can shroud everything in mystical robes and we can light candles. And I have respect for that. I've spent time in those monasteries. But just understanding it's not you. You're training your threat networks. You're training your hunger networks. You're training your loneliest networks to be at peace.

And the way to do it is the reset process, which is based around forgiveness, which isn't even what people think it is because forgiveness itself is a trigger, which is a nasty trap. So step one, can you share that with people just to get them going? Sure. Step one is you've got to find a trigger. And when I do this in large groups,

I'll lead people through and say, don't pick your mom or your dad. If you're alive, you had parents and there will be times when you were very young and you were pissed at them that had nothing to do with anyone being right or wrong. So don't do that. Those are big. Someone cut you off in traffic. A troll on social media said something. Your partner or spouse didn't make you scramble eggs. Whatever the thing that got on your skin was pick something small, right? And once you know exactly what it was, when you go through the steps, you set up kind of a virtual environment inside your head.

And then you very specifically state, what did you do and how did it make me feel? And then the hard part of this process is you re-experience how it feels in your body. Like you show the body what you're training it. And then you use gratitude as a switch. And then you do a very specific style of forgiveness. And when I say do forgiveness, what does that even mean?

Forgiveness isn't a thought. It's a change. Most people feel in their chest, but it's a change in your brainwaves and a change in your physiology. And when you do it in this order, you're showing the body, this is how I don't want to feel because it's the wrong message. This is the alert we're working on. This is the turn on the control panel. And then this is the feeling I want you to use to erase the other one. And then next time your partner doesn't make you scrambled eggs or someone cuts you off in traffic,

there will be no reaction in your body. And most meditation teachers, most therapists, they're going to say, well, to be a functioning adult, notice the feelings, set them aside. And here's the deal. Entrepreneurs don't have time to just notice the feelings and set them aside because you have a lot of stuff to do. You also have your whole team sitting there in front of you. And if you just notice the feelings and set them aside, everyone in the room knows that you are no longer congruent.

Because they can tell you were pissed off in your nervous system, but you smiled and you said what you're supposed to say, but it's not authentic. And when you turn off the trigger, it didn't land whatever would have triggered you before. So you don't get triggered. You don't have to hide it. And all the energy that would have gone into hiding it just goes into saying, you know what? Next time, can we do it this way?

Instead of going, okay. All right, guys, next time I'm going to do this. Like there's a whole different vibe. We're all vibe machines. We pick up each other. So congruence is where authenticity, it's where integrity comes from.

And this is where a lot of entrepreneurs fail and just a lot of parents. You can't feel one thing and say another and expect it to land. So you've got to learn how to feel the things that work. And it's always triggers because your natural state is peace and your natural state is to be loving. Your natural state is kindness. And anything that gets in the way of that is just programming of your meat operating system. It is not that you're a bad person. It is not you. It is that at some point in your history, you're

your body or some part of your body just didn't feel safe. Doesn't matter if it's rational or not. And it's like, if that ever happens again, it might be a tiger. Every time it feels like that, send up all the alerts. Let's just stop doing that. We're wired in our bones, in our subcellular biology to be kind to the planet, to each other.

I love it. You mentioned entrepreneurship and you are a serial entrepreneur. In addition to the whole biohacking movement, you had also created Bulletproof Coffee, which was clearly disruptive in the coffee industry. Amazing, amazing. And now you've created another disruptive brand called Danger Coffee. Can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. Yeah.

I created Danger Coffee after the people who run Bulletproof sold me the Bulletproof Cafe in Santa Monica and then told me they didn't want me to sell Bulletproof coffee at the coffee shop they just sold me.

So I didn't really want to start another coffee. I didn't want to copy my old stuff because that would just be lame. So I started Danger Coffee, which is a different idea. Of course, it's mold free and it says on the label. And some brands I've worked with in the past don't say mold free on their labels anymore. You might be able to guess which brand that is. But...

Danger coffee is mold-free. And then we have a therapeutic dose of trace minerals that would cost you about 22 bucks just for the trace minerals as a supplement. So you're getting a meaningful amount of minerals your body needs to make electricity every time you drink danger coffee. And people drink it and like, this is the best tasting coffee ever. I don't even know why it's so good. It's so good because your body wants the minerals and electrolytes and it's subconsciously telling you that it's really good. And it is good because it tastes like good coffee, but it has another thing in it that makes your body go, yes,

That's Danger Coffee. The other big brand I'm working on is called Upgrade Labs. We've got 30 locations that are opening across the US and Canada. We've got about nine open right now. And these are facilities that let you go in, measure 187 million data points per year on average.

to figure out what's going on in there and we can help you put on muscle or improve your endurance or improve your cognition with neurofeedback and we've got ai powered cardio ai powered weights and a ton of unheard of recovery technologies because entrepreneurs we work our butts off and then we never recover so then when we try to exercise it doesn't even work

So my deal is entrepreneurs don't have time to guess. And that's why I built labs instead of spas. Like we don't need to go get a hot stone massage. We don't have time for that. It doesn't work very well. So let's get the data. Let's figure out where you want to go. And just like you're going to say, you know, if I spend money on that network, I make money because the return on ad spend is good. But over here, it's not.

The return on exercise spend from a spin class, you'll get a 2% return doing five days a week, five hours a week.

And if you come to Upgrade Labs, 15 minutes a week of my AI cardio will give you a 12% return. Where are you going to put your exercise dollars or your exercise energy? It's the same way of thinking. I just want what I do to work really well. Yeah. And this frees up so much time. No, it's awesome. Where are some of the locations? I would imagine Austin is one of them since you're located there. First year, Austin. We've got one that's coming in in Boulder. We've got one in Riverton, Utah. There's one in Park City. Okay.

We've got Toronto and Calgary. Toronto's in Oakville. Let's see. And we've got Seattle. We're doing it in the eastern part in Bellevue.

And let's say, I know if I don't mention a bunch of other locations, people get mad, but we got a lot of franchises at this point. That's awesome. So it's a franchise model that you're... It's a franchise model. That's amazing. Well, I can't wait to try that. You're always so ahead of the curve. So it's exciting. It's so fun. You go in and you measure yours and just get results. And people want to become partners with me on that. It's ownandupgradelabs.com. I mean,

My president of the company used to run Orange Theory and Equinox. So we are so serious about making this so that you don't need a million dollar biohacking lab in your basement where I have here in Austin. You should be able to go in for a couple hundred bucks a month and access the tools that billionaires use to become more powerful.

I love it. I love also that you have multiple businesses going. Nine businesses. Yeah, I love it. It's interesting. I had a chance to have a very brief conversation with Richard Branson, and I never realized that he only ran one company as CEO. Do you know which one that was? I'm guessing it was Records. Yeah.

Nope. It was Virgin Cola was the only one. And so we ended up having, yeah, we ended up having, and he says it was his nightmare. Like he couldn't figure it out how to scale it and do it. It was just super, super hard. So beverage companies suck. You know that I know that from the RT is so hard to do it. I don't know how you do it with hint. I'm, I'm in awe.

But it was interesting because he's the interim CEO of many companies when he launches, but his intention is to go find somebody better than he is to go and run these companies. Yeah, which I think is absolutely so smart. And obviously with everything that you're doing around biohacking and also meditation and everything, that's the way that you're able to do all of that.

too, because if you know how to remove your triggers and I mean, it's, it's so, so good. So, um, I, I really, really love that. How do you know, um, what's next in this movement? I mean, do you feel like you're hearing anything from, uh,

from people who are coming to you now. Like, I feel like loneliness has become even more of an issue for people, which creates stress as well. I'm so curious what you would say about that. I think so many people have...

you know, done the Zoom, the screen thing for so long, working from home. And we need to get with people and friendships, as you mentioned too. But I'd be curious what you would say about that.

One of the things that I study is brain networks and kind of personality typing. And about half of people get their validation and their sensory things or decision-making from outside their bodies from other people and half get it internally. I'm internally generated, which means...

I have an inner knowing of what I'm bringing that's just there. This can make you a creative visionary unless you have too big of an ego, in which case you're like, "I know this to be true," and it's not because you've never tested on customers.

So in the biohacking movement, my goal now is to bring this piece thing around the first F word fear to drop the amount of energy that goes into that. I've already solved hunger. Anyone who does my stuff will not feel hunger. Like you can do this. I've lost a hundred pounds. I'm five or 6% body fat. Look at the cover of the book. And I'm the fat computer hacker guy. So this is done. So you're not feeling fear unless it's real. You're not feeling hunger unless it's real. What's next is relationships.

And for that, I'm working with my girlfriend who runs We Deepen. And we do an entrepreneurial relationship mastermind about three times a year where people come in for three days with the top relationship coaches out there, including Annie Lala, Rod Harrison, and Christina and I. And we do a hot seat for either couples or singles.

To say, are you going to work on your relationship as hard as you work on your company? Because if you do, relationships power you to make change in the world. How many entrepreneurs do you know their marriage goes down and their company goes down? It's standard because your relationship is a source of nourishment. So you might as well pay as much attention to your relationship as you do your diet.

And oh my gosh, you do that, it frees up so much energy. So I'm doing work on that. And on the community front, the biohacking conference that helped us start the movement is in its 14th year. We have 4,000 people coming May 28th through 30th. Steve Aoki is playing a private concert for us. And...

Joe Dispenza is sharing his science and James Nestor is talking about breath work and Ryan Holiday is talking about stoicism. So we're doing all the longevity stuff and the community there. This is where people meet their, their boyfriends and girlfriends and they build their tribe. And it's like, it's the coolest thing ever because that's where community is starting, where people who are like you have the same values. And I spent a lot of my time on those stories.

The family or fertility one and on the friend one, because when you free up the energy from hunger and fear, you're naturally going to be around your partner and you're going to work on it and you're going to naturally build a friend network of people you just want to be around. That's the future of biohacking, but it's helpful to not be afraid so you can be a good friend.

Yeah, definitely. I love your statement about meditation, that it needs a rebrand. What's the new narrative around it? I couldn't agree more. Well, hurry, meditate faster is a thing. And it kind of makes me laugh. It's the same as saying my ego is smaller than yours, which is also ridiculous on its face. But here's the deal. You only have so many minutes in a day to

And you could spend them on parenting, on building your business, or you could spend four hours a day meditating and four hours a day trying to not die, which is an aspect of fear. Well, I don't think that if you spend eight hours a day, you're probably doing it right. So biohacking isn't about trying to live forever. It's about not wasting today feeling half alive.

And that can be because you're constantly triggered. It can be because you're constantly malnourished or you're constantly lonely. So let's deal with those because what emerges is an epic human being who can do things in the world and it makes you impossible to program.

So your government can't program you with some kind of propaganda. Marketing people can't influence you. You won't hire narcissists and sociopaths nearly as easily. And if you read Heavily Meditated, I go through how to spot them because that's an important thing. Your environment sets the tone of your nervous system. And if you're surrounded by people who smile and act nice but are actively trying to harm you, you think you're going to do well? No, you're not. So there's a way to spot those. That's in Heavily Meditated. God knows I've had the masterclass on that.

Definitely. So, Heavily Meditated is such a great read. You also have it in the audio version. And if you had to...

say to somebody, somebody who's listening right now that might say this all sounds too good to be true. Dave, you know, he's got his conference coming up towards the end of May. I mean, that'd be amazing to go to, but I don't know if I could do that right now. What would you say to them straight up as a step to get going? Straight up, if it sounds too good to be true.

Pick up Heavily Meditated and read it and look at the data, look at the science and ask yourself, where did you learn that it sounds too good to be true? And is that real? You believe it's too good to be true, but you do not have any data about what I'm talking about at all.

other than this interview so read the book many thousands of hours concentrating this and after you've read it decide if there's any evidence and then come to the biohacking conference and hear me and hear dozens of other top experts in the world talking about this and talk to the 4 000 people who are doing this and have radically changed their lives in all kinds of ways whether it's mental or spiritual or physical or all the above

And decide maybe your picture of the world is flavored by the first F word, fear, because it is. I love that. So Dave, this was so good. From mindset to minerals and coffee, you're redefining what it means to upgrade our biology and our emotional resilience. And-

upgrade labs. Uh, everyone needs to check those out. It sounds like there's, there's a new ones cropping up in cities, uh, all over the U S and, uh, definitely pick up, uh, or listen to the audio version of heavily meditated. I also want to listen to the audio version. I haven't listened to that yet, but I'm sure that is, uh,

just as good for anybody who just needs to hear from Dave because I think that that is sometimes that's also hard for people when they're reading a book to really create change. But if you're listening to it after a while, that can also really...

allow it to sink in. So seriously, the name itself, Heavily Meditated, is so, so good. So I really appreciate it. And like I mentioned before, all of your other businesses, good luck with everything. I think it's so awesome. Dave is all over social media too. So you can hear...

a lot more from him, but also we'll have everything in the show notes too. So Dave, thank you so much for joining us today and for writing this incredible book. All right. Thanks again. Thank you, Cara. Thanks again for listening to The Cara Golden Show. If you would, please give us a review and feel free to share this podcast with others who would benefit. And of course, feel free to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode of our podcast.

Just a reminder that I can be found on all platforms at Kara Golden. I would love to hear from you too. So feel free to DM me. And if you want to hear more about my journey, I hope you will have a listen or pick up a copy of my Wall Street Journal bestselling book, Undaunted, where I share more about my journey, including founding and building Hint.com.

We are here every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Thanks for listening and goodbye for now.