How a Stay-at-Home Mom “With No Experience” Built a $255M Business: Blowouts, Divorces, and the Messy Truth
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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

I'm really excited that you tuned in today because I know you are going to love this episode. How can I say that? Well, let me tell you how I can say it. Because you have been asking, Mel, can we please get more advice on how you start a business? Give us more advice on how you lean into your ideas. And can you please bring us more stories about how a normal person with no prior experience can create a hundred million dollar business? Well, today, Mel,

I am delivering exactly what you asked for. I have another remarkable person here for you to meet. Her name is Allie Webb. She founded a little business here in the U.S. called Dry Bar. It's a blow dry bar where you go and you get a blowout in your hair. And she changed the

the beauty industry. And when she started this idea, she was a 32-year-old stay-at-home mom of two kids who had an itch to get out of the house. She was not looking to disrupt the beauty industry. She was not looking to create a $100 million brand. In her words, you know what she says? I had no business being in business. Well, let me tell you something.

She's wrong and you're wrong. If you're telling yourself you have no business being in business, if you're telling yourself you don't have a good idea, you don't know what to do, I'm calling BS and I'm introducing you to Ali Webb, the founder of Drybar. That's not the only company that she has started. She has gone on to start multiple very successful companies. She has written a brand new book, The Messy Truth, How I Sold My Business for Millions but Almost Lost Myself.

where she tells you the whole story of growing this $100 million business for scratch, the cost of it, the messy things behind, and most importantly, the very simple, actionable takeaways that are going to inspire you and get you started on whatever itch it is you need to scratch, whatever idea it is that you've been putting off. Today is the day we stop thinking. We get messy, and we tell you the truth about why you...

Yes, you have a $100 million idea in you too. So please help me welcome Allie Webb to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I mean, it's just such an honor to be here. I can't believe it. Let me just start by saying one thing. I had no business being in business. Yeah. That's why I wanted to talk to you because that is a story and...

A lot of women tell themselves that story. I have no business being in business. I didn't go to college. I didn't even graduate from high school. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm this. I'm that. I'm the other thing. And the truth is, so many...

of the most successful people that we all admire had no business quote going in business because they didn't get an MBA. And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you and have everybody hear your story is because so many people listening, 194 countries, so many people listening or watching on YouTube

have a desire to start something. And I want you to unpack the whole journey of how you went from a hairdresser that didn't go to college with three young kids who had no, two young kids that have no business being in business. Yeah. Building a hundred million dollar company. Yeah. But then there's also the

The like behind the scenes stuff and like raising a family and going through divorce and your kid going through rehab and like the real messy stuff that happens because we don't we can't separate it all. I mean, it's it's it's bananas. But I grew up in, you know, God bless my parents. My mom, my mom passed away about eight years ago. But it was like, we hope you marry well. You know, it was that I grew up in that generation of like, you know, we just were women weren't like it was like a man's world. Well, I want you to put us at the scene.

So where were you in life when your life took a turn?

toward this small idea? What were you doing? How old were you? Yeah. Well, I moved to New York City when I was about 18. I went to college like for a second. And I was so lost. I was so lost. And the thing that kept coming back to me was like hair. It was right in front of me. I mean, I loved hair. I always loved hair. I would spend hours in the bathroom when I was in high school trying to figure it out. I was just fascinated by it. And I was like,

I think I want to go to beauty school. And my brother, my brother was the first person I told. I said, I think I want to go to beauty school. And he was like, I think you should. He's like, you're really good with people and you love hair. And I was like, I know. I should just do that. And when I told my mom and dad, it was a very different conversation. They were like, really? You know, and it's like, I just knew that was the thing. That was the thing that I loved. And I think that we sometimes feel like it's not cool or it's not this or it's not that. So we don't want to do it. So we want to take this path that everybody thinks we should take. It's crazy.

Screw that. Well, there's this whole body of research around if you lean into something you already love, whether it's video games or it's music, that you will be more successful because you will naturally want to spend more time working at it because you enjoy doing it. Yeah. So...

I should back up a little. I moved to New York City. I thought I wanted to do something in fashion. I ended up getting into hair. And I met my now ex-husband, Cameron, when we lived in New York. We got married. I was very, I'm very like driven when I want something. And I wanted babies.

And I was like 27 wanting kids really, really bad. I mean, I really wanted to have babies. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's a beautiful thing. And I was like, this is what I want to do. I met Cam. I was jumping around from my career to career like you do when you're 20. Waiting to have babies. Yeah. Waiting to find my husband and have babies. Truly. I was like.

I've always been a big romantic and loved love and wanted kids and all that. Fantastic. We meet when I'm like 26, get married when I'm like 27, 28. Nice. And all very fast. Landed the plane. Yes, I landed the plane. Within a year, had our first and...

We moved from New York City to L.A. and I became a stay-at-home mom. And I just started to kind of, around the time where my kids were about two and four, I started to get the itch to do something for myself. And I was probably around like, I don't know, 33-ish at the time. And...

Because I had so much experience doing hair and blowouts, and I was like, I don't want to go back to the salon and cut hair and do all that. And I was like, maybe I should start. I had just moved to L.A., and I was like, maybe I should start a mobile blowout business. I knew it was expensive to get a blowout in hair salons, and it was like variable pricing, which drove me crazy. Because it's like, oh, for you, it'll be $50, and for your friend with the long, thick hair, it'll be $120. You're like, you can't do that. Why? It's such a bait and switch.

Because it says on the window it's like $45 for a haircut or blowout. And then you go in and it's actually like another 80 bucks. You're like, and then you're sitting in the chair and you have to look like the idiot who's like, I don't want to, I can't pay another $40. I just hated that whole, the whole uncomfortableness. So there's a couple of things I want to, I want to just tease out to make sure that you got because Allie has already dropped major wisdom.

I want you to notice that when she was talking about working in a salon, when you talked about it, something in you lit up. You spoke faster. You were impassioned. You were energized. And that's an important thing to highlight because for so many of you that listen, that are looking for that idea or wanting to do something more, one of the big things that you write about in this book is that

it's typically right in front of you. That the things that you are energized by, that you would do all day long, that make you come alive, as dumb as it may sound, or as much as your family might poo-poo it, like, what, you're going to go to beauty school? What? That's really an important piece of data when it comes to finding an idea or finding your calling. Yeah, I love that you pointed that out. When we started Drybar...

I was itching to do something. I was like excited to get out of the house and like do something for myself. But when we like opened the door, I mean, even when we were in the planning phase, like I loved it. Like I couldn't work enough. But hold on a second. It did not start with a retail location. So I want to slow down real quick. Well, you're right. It started with the mobile business. See, I'm right. Don't tell me it did not start with a retail business. Listen, I have

the facts, woman, about your life. And I want to slow this down because your story is so accessible. Mm-hmm.

It is. You stop yourself over and over and over again. You think I should go to beauty school, and everyone's like, no, no, no, no, no, so you don't do it. Then you think I love, but I love hair, and maybe I'll do something with hair, and they're like, no, no, no, that's not enough. It's not this. And so the ideas are all around you. What I want you to pay attention to as you listen to Allie tell this story is how one decision at a time, instead of arguing against what she wanted,

she simply was like, "Fuck it. Okay, why don't I try it?" Yeah. And so you're sitting there, you're in your 30s, you have two young kids,

You were thinking, maybe I'll just start a mobile blow-drying business. Yeah. It literally was like one day dawned on me. I was like, I think I should do this. Put me at the scene. Like, where did you get the, like, I'm going to get my car and drive to people's houses and blow-dry their hair for cash. Well, that's exactly what happened. I had just moved to L.A., you know, a few years before, and I met my best friend, who's still my very best friend today, when our...

sons were babies. We met in a breastfeeding support group and we were inseparable and we had these babies and we were stay-at-home moms and like we were having the best time and we both started to get the itch at the same time. She just had a knack for like planning parties and things and so she wanted to get into like the party planning business. She ended up becoming a really big wedding planner and

Now do something else. That's a whole other story. At the time, I was like, oh, that sounds fun. I'll help you with that. We started to do that. I did not really enjoy that. And I was like, no. And we were fighting. And I was like, no, this isn't it. And I remember we were sitting in my Santa Monica tiny apartment. And Paige and I were sitting on the floor with our babies crawling around us. And I was like, you know, I love you. And I love that we were starting this business together. But I don't think it's the thing for me.

I think I want to start a mobile blowout business. And by the way, she had curly hair too and used to always ask me to blow out her hair. And so she's like, I think that's a great idea. I was like, right. What year is this? This is 2000 and I guess the boys were like three. And so I was like, I think we were like, what do you think people would pay if I came to their house? I want to make this like people are actually going to call me. So because nobody knew me, I was brand new to L.A. And so we were like,

maybe 35 or 40 bucks and Paige was like, "Yeah, two 20s, easy peasy." I was like, "Two 20s, easy." You know, it was gonna be a cash business. So I posted on like a Yahoo group and I said, "I'm a stay-at-home mom, I have two little boys, "I'm a long-time hairstylist, "I'm thinking of starting a mobile blow-up business "where I'll come to your house while your baby is sleeping "and blow out your hair."

And I'm going to only charge $35 or $40. Not a very sophisticated business plan. And sure enough, I started getting inundated with emails like, can you come over tomorrow? When can you come over? And I was like, God damn, I'll be there. You know, and so I didn't actually make any money because between gas and like

I didn't make any money. But who cares? Because it led to Drybar, right? But at the time, I was so happy still because then I got like a big duffel bag together. I threw like all of my hair shit in a bag. And I was like, okay, I'll be over. What did you do with the kids? I think one of my sons was in preschool then. A total wash money-wise. But I didn't care. And I was really just wanting the freedom to get out of the house for a little while and do something for myself and talk to adults and whatever. And I love doing hair. And so it was like a win-win-win for me, minus the money. Yeah.

So I start going to do women's hair. And another big key insight that I didn't realize I was learning while I was learning it was that I would usually go to these women's homes and be in like their living room or kitchen, rarely in someone's personal bathroom. You know, it's like they didn't know me. It wasn't like I was their friend. Right. But I was a mom, so there was like a level of trust. But I would usually do their hair like in the living room, so not in front of a mirror. Right.

And that's the thing about Drybar, which of course you know now, is like there's not mirrors in front of the stations at Drybar, which was such a massive learning for me from the mobile business. Because I would go to a woman's house, she'd be sitting like at her like, you know, like this, like at her bar, at her kitchen, I'd blow dry her hair. So she wasn't micromanaging me, which as a hairstylist is awesome. Because I was like, when I'm ready for you to see your hair, I'll tell you and you can get up and go look in a mirror. And that would happen. And then there would be this really amazing moment where she'd be like, oh my

love it and you'd hear the squeal she'd be so happy she felt so good all this confidence like you know erupted and I was like man this is so great because not only do I like it as a hairstylist that I can just do my thing and work it out make sure it looks good and she doesn't have the pressure of who wants to

stare at themselves in a mirror for 45 minutes. It's like, as women, as humans, really, it's like you start dissecting yourself. I got like tired. I don't like my nose looks like what's up with that? Why am I wearing it? Like all the shit. Why are they doing this with my hair right now? What's happening? I mean, all the shit that we do, we just nitpick because we're staring at ourselves. You know, I was like, okay. And when we started concepting Drybar, so many learnings from my mobile business came out and that was a huge one. How long did you do the mobile business?

Before you're like, there's something here. For about a little less than a year because I got so busy. And I was like, I'm saying no more. I'm starting to say no more than I'm saying yes because back to the kids, I could really only be out of the house for like four hours. Right. So I could only do like maybe three or four blowouts in that time if it worked out. Because I was like in the Palisades and Brentwood and Santa Monica. And so I was like running around. Right.

And I couldn't do that many. And I was like, man, I'm saying no more. I'm like, that's not good. And then I was like, do I bring on more stylists like Mobily and send them out? But then they're going to turn into their clients. And so I was like, that doesn't seem right either. And I couldn't control the experience. And that's when I went to my brother and I was like,

I feel like I should turn my mobile business into a brick and mortar. My brother is also bald and like a dude. And he was like, what? Why can't women blow out their own hair? And I'm like, no. I'm like, didn't you remember growing up with me and like the crazy whatever? But I got him on board with it. And I said, I want to I want to basically instead of me going to them, them come to me like I want to open one little shop. And he he was like, OK.

okay, he knew I was having success in my mobile business that I was getting really busy. And I was like, Mike, I think if the price is right and the space is beautiful and really well run and I'd worked in hair salons, like I knew enough to make it great, I felt. So when I went to Michael and I said, I want to do this. And he was like,

And it was so cool because it was such a level set of skills because Michael was always like really good students, just naturally really smart and whatever. And I wasn't. But now here I'm coming with this like I know this business and you don't.

So you need to learn this part for me and I need to learn that part from you. And so that was this beautiful merge of us coming together. And I was like, I know I need help running this business, but I also know I know how to run a salon because I'd worked at many salons as like the assistant to owner. So I saw all of it, like the good, the bad, the ugly, everything that happens in hair salons. What I think is really interesting about what you're sharing is that you are describing a

what we often forget when we are wanting to start something. We tell ourselves, oh, well, I don't have this experience or I'm not the business person. But the truth is,

The fact that you were inside of salons and you worked for other people and you saw, as you said, the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything, it helped you make decisions about what you didn't want to do. And that's a really important part of learning and of the experience that you brought to the table. And so these are great nuggets that you're sharing. And I want to hear more about how you started, ran, and sold this insanely successful business without a college degree and

without any business experience and with little kids at home. And later in the show, you know what I really want to get into? I want to get into the messy part, how this came at a cost and what happened in your personal life as your success grew. So stay with us.

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Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm so thrilled that you're here with me. And I know that when you listen to this show, you are taking time for yourself and you're taking time to learn. And today, you're learning from Allie Webb. She is the founder of the $100 million business success called Drybar. And we were just talking about how absolutely everything that happens when you start something is teetering.

teaching you along the way. And Allie, all of the failures and the things that have happened were preparing you to be at the helm of this amazing company that you created. Yeah, I really believe everything I did in my life uniquely prepared me to sit at the helm of a blow-dry empire.

Unequivocally. I mean, that is a hilarious sentence. Can I just say that? A blow dry empire. It's what dry bar is. A blow dry empire. That is incredible. Like, because I don't think anybody would wake up and go, you know what I'm going to do? Bye.

I'm going to create a blow dry empire. Me either. But I'm just, you know, it was like working in PR, working at hair salons. And I really did see, there was so much I loved about hair salons and there was a lot that I didn't. I didn't like the cutthroatness of it. I didn't like it was like the eat what you kill environment. It didn't like the like, I'm not going to, I don't want to wash your hair. Like there was a lot I didn't like about it. And I was like, I don't, I don't want that. That's not what Drybar is going to be about. Like I want this happy. We all are in this together. Kumbaya. Yeah.

Which was not what hair, you just don't see that in hair salons. And we had so many stylists. I mean, gosh, at the height of Drybar, I mean, probably even today, there's over 5,000 stylists that work for Drybar. And, you know, there was always this sense of, I can't tell you how many stories I'd hear from stylists who would come in and be like, my boss is like doing drugs in the back and nobody's nice to me and I hate it there. But I mean, story after story after story, like there's just this weird feeling

Not all, and I want to be cognizant to not say not all hair salons are like that, and there's a lot of really great ones, but there's a lot of stories. I mean, not stuff that I actually experienced myself, but just stories that I heard from stylists about how they were treated and how it's a hard business. And for us, we wanted to make it not like that. We wanted it to be like the way the dry bar structure was set up was that we were paying people...

Like they were paid hourly and then they would get their tips. So it wasn't like a chair rental the way it typically is. And that was an intentional decision because I wanted people to feel like they were part of something that it wasn't like you're just coming in to see, you know, hairstylist Mel. You're coming in to Drybar to get a great blowout. And the big like reason this thing would work is because you could sit in anybody's chair potentially and get a great blowout. It might not be the exact same.

way that Mel does it that you love, but you'll sit in Ali's chair and you'll be like, oh, this isn't like what I would have got, but I kind of like it, you know, because I always feel like, again, I take this hair styling stuff obviously very seriously, but I feel like, you know, people don't always know what they want until you show them, you know, far be it for me to compare us to like the iPhone, you know, but we didn't know we needed iPhones, you know, and then we got them and we're like, of course we needed iPhones. And it's like, again, it's lofty, but I think that like,

You know, a woman comes in and she always gets her hair blown this way. It's true. And I'm like...

Just show her. You're the hairstylist. Just show her a little something, a little different. And then she'll be like, oh, my God, I love it. And it happened all the time. You know, so I'm like, it's our job as the hairstylist, the innovator, the leader in this situation to show women. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't like it. We'll redo it. Whatever. You know, it's like we're not cutting her hair off. You know, it's not surgery. And so that was, you know, I felt really strongly about all of that. And it really was like...

again, you know, I was like, you're going to make so much fun of me. Like I used to say, we're not, you know, we're changing the world one blow at a time. And I really felt like that. I mean, the change you would see in women was unbelievable. Well, I think when you feel good about how you look, there is absolute clarity

irrefutable research about how it impacts your confidence. No question. Someone did an article, I think it was Marie Claire, it was, you know, back when magazines were still popular. And it was actually a friend of mine who wrote the story, it was called The Psychology of a Blowout. And she sat in Dry Bar for eight hours and she watched the behavior of how women walked in and how they walked out. And I mean, Mel, it's astounding. You'd see the way a woman would walk in, like very serious, usually a hat on, like

you know, head down, business, like serious.

And I kid you not, there were times when women would walk out because I was in the shop 24-7. I was like, I didn't see that woman come in. And they're like, yeah, you did. She came in an hour. And I was like, no, I didn't see her because I didn't recognize her because she looked so different. I mean, her hair looked different. Her hat was off. But there was like this like lightness and this pep in her step. And that's when I was also like, OK, we're not selling blowouts. We're selling happiness and confidence. Like we are so on to something like this is not about hair.

anymore. You know, it was like this was about the psyche of like the way women were feeling. And that's why it got so massive, in my humble opinion. One thing that I just can't, I can't underscore enough is the example that you are giving to the person listening on passion. And there's a couple things I want to point out here.

And it's this, first and foremost, passion I have always defined as just energy, anything that energizes you. And there is no doubt that blowouts and hair and happiness, that that brings so much passion and energy into your life. You can feel it. It like vibrates off you as you talk. And here's the other thing I want to say about that.

Passion is so personal because I don't give a shit about blowouts, honestly. Like I literally, there is no way I could have built this business. I can't manufacture passion into it. Of course, of course. And so I say that because I think we're always looking for some big idea.

Or for that person that's listening that's like, I have the itch. I know what she's talking about. I have this itch to do something bigger, but I don't know what bigger is. I want to keep pointing...

you back to the example that Ali is giving us. What do you talk about all the time? What would you do that if you could just do this and your bills were taken care of, you would do this all the time? And don't tell me you'd lay on your ass on a beach and drink margaritas because that would be fun for about a week. And then you'd be like, OK, got to scratch the ish because this is not doing anything. But so you open this first location. Your bald brother becomes your partner. It ultimately goes on and becomes this massive business. Mm hmm.

And I would love to have you talk a little bit about some of the really hard moments before we get into the advice for someone listening around how to get started and what have you learned through this whole process. The learning is endless and it's like daily, truly. It's like a laundry list of mistakes that I made. Michael and I ended up personally guaranteeing that loan, which was kind of the...

the lease. It was also in 2010, so it was the middle of a recession, and the landlord was like, what is this? Like, what? Is it a bar? Because it looks like a bar, you know? Right. I realized, like, I didn't want hairstylists to bring in their own shit when they came into our shop.

I wanted to provide all the blow dryers. I'm going to provide all the brushes. Everything you need, you don't bring any of your stuff here. And stylists were like, what? But I like this brush. And I was like, I hear you, but no, you're not. Some stylists were like, God, we're really annoyed about that. And I was like, I get it, but no, I want this place to look a certain way. I want every station to feel and look a certain way. I want you guys to know how to do the Cosmo, the Mai Tai, because all of our hairstyles are named after drink, which, by the way, was another thing.

thing that my brother was like, that's so cheesy. We shouldn't name the hairstyles after drinks. I was like, yes, we should. Because women are going to come in and they're like, I want a Cosmo, which is like our messy curls and the Mai Tai was like our messy beachy look. I was like, I guarantee you women are going to love this. And they did. And women would always come in like,

I think I went with the Mai Tai. I mean, without fail. It was huge. And it was Michael was like, I don't think we were going to watch. But you know what I mean? It's like everything was a decision. One of the big ones that I've talked about quite a bit is that if you've ever called Drybar to make an appointment, we don't have the phones inside the shops. In the first day, the first week, the phones were ringing off the hook, which was amazing. I mean, great problem to have.

The shop was crazy busy. And we had the phone up at the front desk, but it's loud. The music's loud, which is part of the ambience. There's flat screen TVs playing like Devil Wears Prada. There's blow dryers going and there's women talking, but it's fun. It's like a party. It's a club basically, which is like a controlled chaos, but it was so fun. The energy was so good, but then the phone's ringing. And so a woman who's coming in to check in or a woman who's

leaving. And then there's a person on the phone like that's a trifecta that doesn't work. And I was like, I don't want to be that business. I don't want to be like, excuse me, like the finger up, like give me a second. Like, oh, I hated that. I was like, we're not doing that. But the phone's ringing, which is good because people are trying to make appointments. And I was like,

stop answering the phone. We'll let it go to voicemail and we'll call them back, which is a kind of crazy decision to make when you've just opened a business. We're like, oh, we're not going to answer our phones. But I was like, we can't answer our phones because what is most important here is the women who are in the shop having the experience, giving us their money. And wanting to come back. And wanting to come back. So I was like,

I let it go to voicemail. And at the end of the night, we will call everybody back, which was like a disaster and such a pain. But what was the alternative? So then we realized we had to pull the phones out of the shop. We basically started hiring people to answer the phones outside the shops, like in the quietness of their living room. Now we're in like we're dealing with this company that we have to get the phone business. Like we're in the call center business now, which was like wild.

What are we doing here? But we had to have people answer the phones outside the shops. And then as we grew, and there's 150 locations, now it was like a real call center. So we had hundreds of people on the phone because, mind you also, you can book on an app and you can book like on your computer, but 50% of the clientele, which is over millions, like want to call on the phone, which is like to me. I want to call. I'm a caller. I'm not. I'm a caller. You're not my favorite kind of person in that regard. That's okay. I'm willing to not be your favorite person. I was like, please just go on.

I don't want to. It's complicated. Because they're like, I want to talk and I want to find out. But it was annoying. And it was like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation because you're like, hi, I want to call. And I had that girl last time and blah, blah, blah. But the girl on the phone doesn't totally know that, which wasn't great. But it was like, again, the alternative. And so anyways, I mean, it was just like thing after thing after thing like that, that you just deal with when you're running a business. I mean, we had like the first like month of Drybar. We were we were underneath a restaurant and like we

we're doing blowouts it's super busy it's popping and I started to see like this like black goop come through our very white beautiful tiles black goop goop like I didn't know what it was and I was like oh my god oh my god what is that what is that I'm watching and all of a sudden Mel I swear to god it was like it started dripping and then it breaks through the ceiling and it's like this I don't know what it

I don't know what it is. Ew. It wasn't like that. It was like some sort of sewage. Oh, some sort of sewage. That sounds pretty disgusting. Not sewage. It was like something from like the restaurant. It was like food. Oh. It was disgusting. It's like the waste trap. I know. It was gross. But here's the funniest part of that story is it like came down at like right in front of the first chair. So it didn't actually hit anybody, thank God. And like everyone kind of like looked. The shop was completely booked solid, packed, people waiting. And people like look over at it and they're like, huh.

And then move their chair over. Like, can you can you keep going? Like the woman who was getting her hair blown. I was like, nobody skipped a beat. And I was like freaking out because the ceiling just caved in and I had to go figure out how to get that fixed and whatever. But I was like, well, let's let's clean it up and keep going. I mean, it was just.

It's so crazy. It's just like there's so many stories like that. And that's really a lot of what's in the book is like there was so much awesomeness and we felt like we were on this rocket ship and like this thing had taken off in front of our eyes and it was so busy and it was like, you know, we were like the hot club that you couldn't get into. We were just figuring it out. I mean, we used to spend...

This is embarrassing. We used to spend like probably like an hour a night after we closed the shop, like physically counting the money. And it was always wrong. And we were like, why can't we figure this out? It was just like, man, you know, it was just like there was somebody was stealing from. I know. I'm sure. That's why the books are not reconciling. We eventually went off of cash because, yeah, that's a whole other. I mean, it was just like, you know, you name it. We had a problem or something we had to figure out. How long ago did you sell?

In 2020, so about three years ago. So I want to jump into some of the lessons. Yeah. Okay. And we've covered a lot of them, that your best idea is going to come from something that you loved as a childhood. Just start somewhere.

is another one that you talked about. We're all imposters. We both get a lot of questions about imposter syndrome. What do you say to people when they say, but I feel like an imposter? Great. What do you mean great? Like good. It means you're doing something that you haven't done before. Like, that's awesome. You know, I think it's funny, the whole like negative connotation on imposter syndrome. It's like, oh, because you're stepping into a role of something that you don't know and that you don't, you're potentially not good at and you've never done before.

good for you. Like, I think you should be excited about that. I think it should be celebrated. Like, I've always kind of like tiptoed into most jobs I've ever had, like not really knowing and figuring it out. And there's something really exciting and fun to me about that. It's funny because I like that so much in business. Not

Not so much in my personal life. I kind of want to know what's happening. But in business, I loved like not knowing what was coming next and like all the excitement around figuring out so many things. I went on QVC and that was scary because you're on live TV. You can't say bad words and you can't say a lot of things. And I was so scared. I loved the feeling of like, I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to do it. You know, I felt like an imposter. Sure. Like I'd never done it before. I'd never been on live TV before, but I was up for the challenge.

So the title of the book is The Messy Truth, though. So let's talk about the messy part. Because all this came at a very big cost. Yes, there's a lot of costs along the way. All right, so let's talk about it. Well, you know, gosh, where to start? Your marriage. I'm actually serious. Let's start with your marriage.

And this isn't funny. And I really don't want you to be embarrassed to talk about this because so many people, Allie, can learn from the mistakes that you made. And I'm glad that you're willing to talk about them. Because you know what I find really interesting about you, Allie, is the fact that your superpower in business is

It's trusting your gut. And you were so decisive with so many decisions when it came to Drybar, from the colors, to no phones ringing, to the stylist can't bring their tools, to naming the hairstyles after drinks. I mean, it seems like in every circumstance, you just knew and you just did it. And yet, time and time again in your personal life, when you knew something wasn't right, you just ignored it. And that's what led to the mess.

And the first mess that you write about is your first marriage. And we're going to get into those messy details when we return. So stay with us.

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♪♪♪

Welcome back. It's your friend Mel, and today you are learning from Allie Webb. She is the founder of the $100 million brand Drybar, and she's released a book, and the title is The Messy Truth. And we're going to get into the messy part, because what's interesting about Allie's story is that she really trusted her gut when it came to business, and she was super decisive, and she knew what she wanted, and yet she didn't know what she wanted.

When it came to her personal life, most of the messes were the result of not trusting her gut. So, Allie, let's start with your first marriage that ultimately ended in divorce. What happened? So, I met Cam, like I said, when we were pretty young. We lived in New York City. And as I mentioned, I was pretty driven to find the husband and make the babies, which I did. And Cam's an amazing man. And we had...

And a beautiful friendship, really, which I now, in retrospect, realize was my parents' marriage, which is like crazy how you don't realize that until afterwards. My parents got divorced when they were in their 50s and turned out they didn't have a great marriage. But they were best friends. They also built a business together. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. This is like a carbon copy. Cam and I built Dry Bar together along with my brother.

And, you know, for years I was just... How was that on your marriage to be business partners? Well, you know, I think it was like the third kid. You know, it was like there was Grant, then there was Kit, and then there was Drybar. And it was this beautiful company that we built. And it was so exciting. And we were so enamored with this company, just like you are with a child. And Cam, you know, had his lane and like the creative part. I had my lane and like the hair and the shops. And Michael was doing like more of the business behind the scenes stuff. And we had this like... We had fun. It was so fun. And so...

We just, it really had nothing to do with Drybar. Like, I think actually Drybar probably kept us together because we didn't have, I didn't have like the passion I needed to have in a marriage. But I was like, I made this decision.

I'm going to stick with it. I decided to marry this man. I'm going to stay in this marriage. And I knew it wasn't right. I was like, I don't think this is, you know, and I was and I also was like, I mean, this is very TMI, but I was like, maybe I just don't like sex. Like, we just didn't have that kind of relationship. And I knew it wasn't right. I knew it wasn't right deep down. And I just couldn't bring myself back.

to do anything about it really until like I did. But I found myself being like, you know, starting to inch towards the path of like having an emotional affair. And I was like, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to do that. And so, you know, the writing was on the wall. Like Cam and I, Cam even like would joke around like once the kids leave, you know, maybe we'll break up then. And I was like, I don't know if that's the plan. Like let's just do it now. How long was Cam

It liked that for you guys because, you know, when my husband and I worked together and my business first started, it nearly was the death of our marriage. Yeah. No question. Like we, it, all we talked about was either the kids or the business. Yeah. There was no marriage. Yeah. And we are very, very good at doing things and getting through a to-do list. Yeah. And we,

there was literally no marriage in terms of he and I having our own emotional connection. And so we tried it and it was disastrous. And so I am just curious, like, what was it like for you guys and how long was it sort of just you

You guys were business partners and you both knew that that was the one thing other than your two children that was keeping this together. I mean, we knew the whole time, truly. I don't think it was the business. I can see, makes sense what you're saying, but even, I mean, Cam tried to call the wedding off a month before the wedding. Really? What was that like? Well, I was like,

Absolutely not. We are getting married. This is, you know, the venue's booked. My parents did it. Like, it was like, I was like, and like, I can't. And now the person that I am is like,

God, of course he was right. We shouldn't have gotten married. I mean, my boys are just the greatest humans ever. And I can't, I mean, gosh, you know, it's like, you can't imagine they're your children. And then we built this amazing business and I don't really don't regret it, but like, we shouldn't have gotten married. I think I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to like go back to the drawing board. I want to start dating again. I don't want to be alone again. Like,

like, let's just go. You know, it was like so crazy of me, but I knew we shouldn't have gotten married either. But we were, I really liked him. I loved him. Like we were best friends. You know, all my relationships up to that point after like six months or so, the kind of passion I thought wore off anyway. So I was like- So wait, you guys were together, you got married and after six months, you never had sex again? We didn't never have sex, but not often.

Define not often. I mean, just... Like once a year? Not once a year. We did. I'm just looking for a baseline for myself. Here's the thing though. And again, I didn't really have much to compare it to. And this is obviously like a pretty tender subject. But when I met my second husband and I was like, whoa, we had sex like every day, multiple times a day. And I was like,

This is what it's supposed to be like. And I was like, this is not my marriage. This was not my first marriage. And so I was like...

Like, holy shit. And I instinctively knew in somewhere in my body, in my mind that like, I don't think this is the way it's supposed to be with my first marriage. And so I went looking again. I was like on a mission. I was like, I'm going to go figure this out. Like, do I am I asexual or do I just not with the right person? Like, what's the deal here? And so I ended my marriage, my first marriage. And I three weeks later, I was dating and I was like,

you know, experimenting. Wait, three weeks? Hold on. Three weeks after you said I want a divorce or three weeks after the divorce was like final? No, three weeks after I said I wanted a divorce. Okay. It was very fast and furious. But I was like, you know, in this like...

Nothing going on in marriage for a long time. I was a disaster. It was like I was a disaster. But I was like, I want to go see what's out there. You're allowed to experiment. And that's what I did. And I very quickly realized, like, I don't—I was like, I'm not going to get married again. I'm just going to, like, date until it, like, wears off, and then I'll do whatever. I mean, I don't know what I was thinking. But then I did, you know, I did—

date a lot. And I realized I think I want to be in a partnership. I don't think I want to just be dating. And so and then I met Adrian and we fell in love very fast and furious. And it was like, you know, we were together five months before COVID hit. And then it was like then the relationship got very fast tracked. And then that was caused a lot of problems, which would ultimately

caused the demise of that marriage, you know, which I haven't talked about publicly until this moment, which is like a little weird because I think I have some embarrassment. So is this the first time you're talking publicly about divorcing your second husband? Yeah. Yeah. Because...

I think there's like a little bit of embarrassment, if I'm being really honest, because... And it's funny because I know at the start of this, we talked about like, I don't really care that much what people think. However, I like paraded my second marriage around like a trophy. You know, it was like we had these like Instagram lives where we would talk about marriage Mondays and we would have this thing fight for love. And it was like, I don't know. It's not that I don't believe that it was true. And I do really think we were in love. There was just things that...

made it and that that I won't talk about that that were made it just not possible the marriage wasn't going to work and I jumped into it again you know I jumped into this marriage that had some things in it that weren't right for me and had things in it that weren't right for him and for me which I can obviously only talk about my side of it is like I was like oh my god I don't

sex with this man all the time. This must be love, you know? And so that was like my guiding light. I didn't pay attention to all the other things that weren't right and didn't line up. And these other things that don't really work, they'll work themselves out. Now I realize like I got, you know, really sideswiped by this like passion and love. And then we rushed into, you know, marriage and

Blending a family is like not easy. I mean, it's rough. You know, it just it comes with a lot of complications of like

you know, navigating a lot, you know, and trying to like, you know, love somebody else's children, have them love yours. And like, how does it all fit together? And it's funny now in retrospect, like when I think back on it and I think about things I wish I had done differently and things I had wish I had noticed and, and him too, I think he would say that like, we didn't, we should have paid more attention and closer attention to like what wasn't right for both of us, which we didn't. What, what,

Did you learn from this or what do you wish you had done differently that you feel comfortable talking about? I wish I had like, what's the word? I was going to say like, not stood up for myself. Like, I wish I had more agency. I knew it wasn't right. I got so swept away. And I think I do this in relationships. Like, I get very enmeshed in.

You know, you know, Runaway Bride, the movie. And you know how like that there's like kind of a famous scene where she's like, I don't know how I like my eggs. Like I like my eggs the way he likes his eggs. You know, it's like you become so enmeshed in the men that you're with and then you lose yourself. And I'm like, I really do that, you know, and now I feel like I at least I know that. And there's like this awareness that next time, next relationship, I'm going to go in with like

these are the things that are important to me. These are like the non-negotiables for me. And if they aren't there, historically, I'd be like, it's okay. It'll be okay. We'll figure it out. Like, because I'm such a like back to business. I'm such a like jump and then go figure it out. Like, you know, you figure it out as you go. You don't have to have all the answers, which is very true of business. You don't, you know, and I'm not saying you have to have all the answers in a relationship, but you do have to have like the same. Well, here's the thing I would point out, because first of all,

I think it's pretty awesome that you're willing to talk very openly about something that is just unfolding and that you're willing to reflect on your part in this. Yeah. And I think the interesting thing about this is that the difference between a business is that you can jump full force into a business and let it be your identity. When you do that in a relationship...

It's really hard to find yourself again and your okayness with exactly who you are and who you're not and what you've done and what you haven't and what you've been extraordinary at and what you've really fucked up and being okay with all of it. I mean, you know, I've been on the floor the last few months, you know, and it's like it was such a...

Oh, my God. Like, oh, my God. Was it worth it? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes. You know, there's still grief and it still hurts. You're not even done with the divorce yet. Yeah. So, but I already can feel this like sense of like I'm getting to the other side. If you had one piece of advice, because a lot of people jump from a relationship or a marriage right into another one. Having crashed and burned, if you had one piece of advice that you learned the hard way,

to anyone jumping into a relationship, particularly where the new partner has kids. What's one piece of advice that you learned that you would do totally differently or you caution somebody, don't ever do this?

This is like advice I'm giving myself is like, don't be so afraid to be alone that you're going to just end up in a relationship that isn't the right relationship for you. And don't rush into it. I mean, I've rushed into every I've rushed into every single thing ever in my life, you know, and I think, you know, I know this won't sound like much to you, but having been like single for almost five months now is a long time for me. Like, I've not been single for that long yet.

Since I was like 26 years old, really. Does single mean like alone or single mean just like not dating? Like not dating, you know, and I'm inching towards that because I'm going to move slow. Why do you need to be in a relationship? You are months out of...

and not even done with a divorce. You have gajillions of dollars. You have a propensity to jump into something because it's passionate. There is nothing more addictive than hot sex with a new person. Uh-huh. If I were your therapist, which I am not, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd be like, absolutely.

shall never get married again. Well, that's probably true. I don't know that I'll ever get married again. And I'm like, why do you need a boyfriend right now? Get a vibrator and get your shit together. I mean, listen. Like, literally, you are a successful, badass businesswoman who does not need a fucking guy. I'm not saying I need a boyfriend right now. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. This tells me if you are starting to inch toward, and I'm getting heeded because I...

You should not be dating people. You cannot trust yourself and you do not need to be in a relationship. And now I'm talking to you like a girlfriend who literally keeps doing the same shit over and over again. I hear you. And I, you know, and I don't know. I mean, listen, I hear you. I don't know. Don't be calling me when you are like, I did it again. I trust me. I am not jumping back into a relationship. I'm just. I don't believe you. I'm.

I'm not. There's no relationship on the table. There's nothing to speak of right now. But you're having sex with people. No, I haven't had sex with anybody. Okay. Okay. Okay. I haven't even gone on a date with anybody. You said you were into it. I was starting to talk to people. Don't talk to people. You're not ready. You're not on the market.

No, no. You got to do a book tour. You have to get your shit in order. You have to take care of yourself. You, in my opinion, need a year of being sober. See, I know. I mean, listen, I hear that that's like everybody says that like you need a year. I don't know that I totally agree with that. I'm saying I need time and I'm not going to jump back into a relationship. I'm not going to get married again. I know a lot of red flags, but I also like I'm going to just see what happens. I really love...

a partner. I really like, I do want it like a partner. You have your brother and your ex-husband as business partners. I know, but okay, I hear you. And it's so interesting because I know- It's amazing to me how much you're pushing back on this. Because- Just stop for a second. You were in a marriage.

That almost got called off a month beforehand. That's true. And you're admitting that you knew in your heart you were with the wrong person. And yes, yes, yes. You have two amazing kids out of it. That is absolutely true. But you knew in your heart that you shouldn't get married and you jumped into it anyway.

And the fact is, I don't think you have enough time from this second divorce. See, here's what you're doing. Everybody does this, right? You are in so much pain that you just rush past the lesson and the whole thing. And you need to stop. You need to be still.

And you need to learn the lesson. I hear you. We'll see. I want the best for you. I know. And I want the best for me, too. And I'm going to go at the pace that feels right for me. And I don't think there's like a, it has to be a year, it has to be six months, it has to be five years. Like, I'm going to see where it lands for me. I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about whatever's next. Okay. I'm nervous on your behalf. I do want to ask you because...

We had only met online. And a couple months ago, I got a text from you. And I just want to read it to you. Oh, God. Because it was just a short, you probably don't even remember sending this to me because you were in a... We may have to cut this out. No, no, no, it's okay. It's not, it's a short text. I just wanted to ask you why, like what it was about. It's very, very, very short text. I'm not going to read any of our longer texts. You texted me.

And said, and we had never met in person. Like out of the blue? This is an out of the blue text? Pretty much. Like we had texted back and forth about business and all of a sudden in May, you texted me, Dear Mel, my husband of one year just asked me for a divorce and I'm beside myself with grief. I have a feeling you might have some wisdom here. And I thought it was a very brave thing to do to reach out in a moment like that to somebody that

you hadn't met and that doesn't know the story or anything and just ask for advice. And I just was curious about that moment for you. I had watched a lot of your stuff and I felt like, I don't know, you know, I get these like hits of like intuition, I guess, where I'm like, I think I just have a feeling based on a lot of the things that I've seen that you post, that you talk about. Like, I feel like Mel would have some really interesting

And you did. You had such fucking good advice. It was like a drawbridge reference that you and I, and it stuck with me. And I just instinctively knew I had a feeling you would respond because you were really kind online and you just seemed really kind in real life. If you didn't respond, like, okay, no problem. And you were really gracious and responded to me and became really helpful. And by the way, that is a big piece of advice I give to people in the business realm of like,

The worst they can say is no or they don't respond. No one's going to die, you know. And so that's kind of, I think, how I approach that of like, let me just see. I bet she's got some really great advice. And you did. Well, I think sometimes it's easier to talk to people who aren't involved. That's true. You know, because you don't feel the judgment and you don't feel like you have to manage how I'm going to feel about it. That's true. Well, I like the fact that you showed up here.

That you were willing to talk about the messy stuff. And it's also a cautionary tale about how it's easy to lose yourself. And I'm really, really proud of you for the work that you're doing because you got it fucking nailed in business. Thank you. But I'm really happy that you are now starting to own the more important piece, which is your well-being and your happiness as a whole person. Yeah.

- That's the goal. - Ali Webb, you're amazing. - Thank you, this was amazing. - Thank you. - Thank you. - I really wanna thank Ali Webb for showing up for You and Me today because she wasn't sure she was gonna talk about what was going on in her second marriage. And here's the thing that I've noticed

is that it is very easy to show up and talk about the wins in your life. I mean, everybody wants to go on a podcast and explain the story behind the big business or the big success. But what I really want to applaud is the fact that she was willing to talk about something that she is processing right now. She's not on the other side of this thing. She was processing it in real time with you.

And in fact, this podcast was the very first place that she talked about it publicly. Why? Well, because she trusts me and she trusts you. She knows that this is not a gotcha podcast or some sort of celebrity sting podcast. She knows that the whole point is for us to use...

her experience as a way for us all to learn, right? I mean, that's why we're here. That's why you listen. You listen to take time for yourself. You listen in order to learn things to improve your life. And so I got to give a huge shout out to Allie Webb for going there with us. And I also want to give you a huge shout out. I mean, whether you got the inspiration that you needed to trust your instincts in business, or maybe, maybe you got the reminder

that when you know deep down that a relationship isn't working, it's not right for you, you got the reminder that you need that no matter how scary it is, you need to listen to it. And you know that tough love that I gave to Allie? Mm-hmm. Maybe you needed to hear it today. Or maybe you got a friend who needs to hear that. And so share it with them. And I'm taking away this. Do not rush past the lessons. Do not rush past the pain.

When you're in the middle of processing a mess in your life, it is not the time to hit the accelerator. It is the time to slow down. Slow down and be still. Because it's only in slowing down and turning toward it and being still that you will learn what you need to learn. And if you don't learn what you need to learn and you race right past this, you're just going to keep on making the same messes over and over and over again.

And finally, before I forget, I want to make sure to tell you, in case nobody else does, that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. Now go do it. I'll see you in a few days. ♪

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So at the very... Okay, that's our shitty first draft. Here we go. Breathe in that diaphragm and breathe out the breath. Remember, we got to... Okay. In order to get started on some big idea that you may have or some itch that you're looking to scratch... All right, let me start all over. Here we go again. Whatever that itch is, scratch it.

Whatever that idea is, don't poo-poo it. Lean toward it. And don't... Are you laughing at my poo-poo? Lots of farts today. Scratching, itching, pooping. Somebody get the preparation age. Well, it's someone's life story where... Okay, I'm not lying. I had it really good. It was like, what did I say? All right, let me do one more to see if I can get it tighter. Okay, good enough. ♪

Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.

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