A Legend on Broadway, Patti LuPone Makes Her Début in the Marvel Cinematic Universe
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This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. The phrase Broadway legend is no hyperbole when it comes to Patti LuPone. She's been a force on the stage for more than half a century. Yet her career seems somehow to be picking up steam even now.

Listing Lupin's accomplishments is an almost absurd and daunting task. So I'm going to pass that off to my colleague, staff writer Michael Shulman, who covers entertainment for The New Yorker.

Patti Luvone has been everywhere recently. I grew up watching her on Life Goes On as the mom. But, of course, there's much more to discover with her. She's a great Broadway singer and actor. And I have since seen her, gosh, at least a dozen times on stage in things like Gypsy, her Tony Award-winning performance, Sweeney Todd, where she played Mrs. Lovett and accompanied herself on the tuba. Ah!

And this month, she is back in two different things. She's starring opposite Mia Farrow in the Broadway play The Roommate.

And also, she has unexpectedly, I think, joined the Marvel Cinematic Universe. She's going to be on the new show, Agatha All Along, a kind of spinoff of WandaVision, which premieres this month. And I was very eager to talk to her about all of these things when I went over to her apartment in New York City recently.

And Patty, I have heard you saying over the past year or two, I'm done with Broadway. Broadway's become a theme park. It's Las Vegas. I'm never going back. I want to do a little play on East 4th Street. And yet here you are. What happened? I don't know. They haven't called me on East 4th Street, but they've called me on Broadway. No, I mean, I'm dying to work downtown. I would rather work downtown. But I've always said I want to work downtown with a Broadway salary. We think quite different, the salaries. But

Yeah, Broadway is actually what's really disappointing is what they've done to Times Square. I mean, it's so crowded now. I mean, I said this years ago when they were going to make the Broadway area pedestrian. I said, how am I supposed to get to work? What are you going to fly me in and let me on a rooftop? I find it incredibly difficult to get to work.

But when you were like in Evita in 1979, I imagine that Times Square as also sort of treacherous in a totally different way. That was the era of the, you know, XXX movie theaters and muggers and, you know, the Midnight Cowboy kind of taxi driver era. You could just drive down Broadway. You could just drive down Broadway. Back then it was treacherous, but I would dress like a slob. So it didn't look like I had money. Uh-huh.

So what was it about this play, The Roommate, that got you to overcome your aversion to going to the theater district and meeting the play? Yeah, really. I still have that aversion. Mia, who's been a friend in Connecticut for over 30 years. I know you both have places in Connecticut. So do you just hang out there? I mean, how do you know each other? And I don't remember when we met, but we met through Steve Sondheim. And it was just a series of social events. I had a New Year's Eve party.

Mia had full moon parties. Mia's and my kid's kids went to the same school. It was country life, a small community in country living. So what is The Roommate about, this play? It's about two women that have been, they're redundant, basically, isolated, alone in their own worlds, which are worlds apart from each other.

And I come to Iowa and we discover each other and ourselves. When was the last time you were on a date? When I got married. And we all saw how well that turned out. Okay, okay. We have to remedy this. No, we don't. Nope. You have to stop thinking about yourself as basically dead. You are actually younger than most U.S. presidents. You're young enough that if you were a president, you would be a young president, okay? Okay.

So just stop mummifying yourself. What's your history with roommates? Kevin Kline was a roommate. He was my lover, but I guess you could call him a roommate. Yeah, pretty much I've lived alone in New York, I'm thinking.

Well, isn't this the apartment we're in where Aubrey Plaza crashed? I mean, I couldn't believe this story. Last year, Aubrey Plaza, who is your castmate on Agatha All Along, was making her stage debut downtown. How did she wind up here? Well, we were shooting Agatha and we were sitting around as actors do.

And she said, I've been offered a play in New York. And I went, oh, that's great. Oops. Because she'd never been on stage. And I know from years of experience how it can shock you what is required of you to be a stage actor. And so I was concerned for her. I said, why don't you just stay with me? And let me walk you through this as you come home.

like a deer caught in headlights. And in fact, she would come home. She wouldn't understand certain things. The way Aubrey Plaza told the story, it was, she was like, Patty told me you got to toughen up. It was like you were her drill sergeant or something. Well, yeah, because she didn't know what to expect. I mean, she'd come home and I'm like, this is, you got to toughen up. You got to, I did. Is it like drop and give me 20? Well, I was sort of like, it was sort of theater bootcamp.

Oh, my goodness. And I did do her laundry and I did make her soup. Absolutely. Because she wasn't eating necessarily. I would put food down and go eat it. You know, just because the mind does other things, you know, you're thinking of a million and you're scared to death. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm

I've been, what, this time in my 51st year on Broadway, and you still, I still get stage fright. I'm still nervous. I'm still, and so for somebody that's never done it and isn't used to that emotional, that, you know, strain, it's frightening. Yeah, and the physical stamina. Physical stamina, absolutely. That's the thing that nobody that hasn't done it understands. Yeah.

It's eight shows a week. Yeah. So you and Aubrey had shot Agatha all along. I had never expected Patti LuPone to join the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I'm so curious about what that entails, like being part of this huge machine, this entertainment franchise that's gigantic. I mean, is it different than just being in a big movie? Mm-mm.

I mean, I don't know because I'm not in that world, really. So it felt like a regular film. I met a couple of people from Marvel. My character, and I can't even tell you that much about it because I got yelled at by a security guy when we were shooting because I opened up my mouth. I didn't know. My character, Kristen Lopez showed me a picture of my character.

She's hot. She's really hot. And she is a witch in the Marvel world. I had no idea. Oh, like you saw the comic book version? Yeah. She's gorgeous with a banging body. What was your costume like? Well, this is when this character was young. My character is, am I allowed to say this? I don't know. My character is a traditional Sicilian peasant uniform.

Oh, that's like your ancestry. Yes. I always hear you say I'm from Sicilian peasant stock. You know, Michael, it sort of followed a pattern because when you go into the Ryan Murphy world, you have no idea what you're doing because your character keeps changing. So I started out as this bathhouse singer and ended up reading tarot cards. Then I got the call and I was all of a sudden a witch. And that wasn't new because in the John Logan world, I was a witch in Penny Dreadful.

Now put your hand over the cards. Like so. Just your fingers. Now let them move. Believe.

It followed a pattern from the Ryan Murphy world into the Marvel world of something that I do, something I can't tell you anything. And I went, well, this is destined. So, you know, all of it sort of is following a pattern. I don't know whether we'll continue. I don't know whether this, but the witches of Agatha all along world will continue. I don't, you know, Jack does not write sequels. She didn't write a sequel to Agatha.

WandaVision she actually came into my trailer to tell me that I was going to die and I went I wanted a second season and she said I don't write second seasons but it would be cool to be

Part of the Marvel Universe. I don't know how I would do, I mean, how that would happen. But I'm putting it out there, Kevin Feige and all you other executives in the Disney Marvel world. Yeah, I would like to see you go, you know, mano a mano with, like, Thor or someone. Who's still around? Well, Doctor Doom is coming.

Well, he's coming to Broadway. Maybe I should talk to Dr. Doom on Broadway. Oh, that's right. Robert Downey Jr. is on Broadway this season as well. Why are they all coming to Broadway? Don't they know what they're getting into? I remember sending Bruce Springsteen flowers for his opening. I went, welcome to Broadway. You'll be sorry. I never heard from him. I never heard from him. He needs to go through the boot camp as well. You could put Robert Downey Jr. through the boot camp too. I could put them all through the boot camp. George Clooney.

Poor guy. It's a drag. It used to be supportive of actors. It's not anymore. It really isn't. I don't know what it is. It's so disappointing. I've always said that there, I've said for years that there needs to be term limits on members of Congress, federal and Supreme Court judges, and Broadway musicals. Absolutely. Open up the theaters. That's what I think. Here's to the ladies who lunch. Everybody laugh.

lounging in their caftans and planning a brunch on their own behalf off to the gym then to a fitting claiming their hat the actor and singer patty lupone speaking with michael shulman we'll continue in a moment this is the new yorker radio hour the new yorker radio hour is supported by dell

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This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm Michael Shulman, a staff writer here at The New Yorker, and I have been talking with Patti LuPone. She's best known for her roles in many, many stage musicals, from Les Miserables to Anything Goes to Gypsy, and she has this incredible voice that absolutely stunned Broadway in 1979 when she played the title role in Andrew Lloyd Webber's Evita. ¶¶ ¶¶

He lives for your problems, he shares your ideals and your dreams. He loves you, understands you, he loves you. Patti LuPone has been everywhere recently. In dramatic plays and movies, on television. She's been a longtime collaborator of David Mamet and more recently, Ryan Murphy. And now, well into her 70s, she is debuting in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We'll continue our conversation now.

People, of course, associate you with these huge Broadway musicals that you've done over the decades. But I know that much of your stomping grounds was really David Mamet plays. Yeah. You know, I was in the first class of the drama division of the Juilliard School, and it was classical training. And at that point, I knew I would end up on the Broadway musical stage because I knew my voice well.

But I fell out of love with musicals and in love with classical theater. And in our fourth year as the acting company, John Hausman, excuse me, I have to smoke in the play and it's already affecting my voice, commissioned David, who was not David Mamet yet, to write a play for the company. And that began my association in 1976, 77, my association with David. And David, I mean, I've said this, and it's true that my two greatest teachers were

have been David Mamet and Stephen Sondheim. And I'm lucky that I had them. David in understanding acting and Stephen understanding singing. Singing a score, not singing, that's Joan Lader who saved my voice and my career. Joan Lader's the vocal coach. Vocal coach, vocal teacher. So I would do anything for David. Anything. And I hope that he continues to write plays. Mm-hmm.

And I hope he continues to use me.

There's so much to learn. Yeah. You know, I feel like in the past, I'm just thinking about the breadth of your career and everything you've done. I mean, I feel like in the past 10 years, you've been everywhere. You're popping up in Girls and BoJack Horseman, American Horror Story, the MCU. I feel like you've got this cool factor in the past decade or so. Does it feel that way?

Um, thanks for saying that. Oh, and of course, an A24 movie, Beau is Afraid. Yeah. And you know, the thing about my career, Michael, that has taken such a long time to take hold is

is the varied parts of my career, training as an actor, being on the road, meeting, you know, artistic directors from regional theaters who then, when they came to Broadway, thought of me as an actor first, and then having the musical ability and, you know, the Hal Princes and the Cameron McIntoshes putting me in musicals. And then also the other thing that I think that I spearheaded

was going from musical to play to film to musical to film to play. And that started in 85, or it started before 85.

But definitely in 85, when I finished Les Mis in London, I was in London when I got a telephone call from the producer for LBJ, who said, we'd like you to come out and test for Lady Bird Johnson. We'll have to dye your hair. I said, why? She said, well, we need a brunette. I said, I am a brunette. No, you're a blonde. No, I'm not a blonde. She's thinking of Evita. Oh, of course. And after LBJ, I went straight into Anything Goes and straight in. Or it was...

It was Witness, Driving Miss Daisy, Anything Goes, LBG, all of that was working. So I would go back and forth. And then life goes on, right? Life goes on. I would go back and forth and back and forth between film and stage and film and stage. But you never became an L.A. person, I'm assuming, right? Or did you when you did Life Goes On? Well, I was living in L.A. during Life Goes On, but I didn't appreciate it until the pandemic happened.

It's like I don't see any city that I work in, which is such a drag. I don't know London, and I've worked there since the 70s. My husband knows London. My kid knows London. But I go from the house to the theater to maybe out to dinner to a restaurant to the house. It's the same of every city that I'm working in because I don't want to. I can't explore. I'm working. Until pandemic.

when my son and I, because he lives in L.A., I said, I'm coming out too. What am I doing? I'm doing nothing. So I'll come out to L.A. with you. And we isolated in L.A. And then Josh and I would schedule COVID tests all over Los Angeles just to explore. You got the COVID test tour of L.A.? Yeah, we'd go all over L.A. just to explore the area. We had a blast. And I realized how beautiful L.A. is.

It's really beautiful. And the first time I went out there was with the acting company. And I remember three of us were in a convertible cruising down Sunset Boulevard in 1976 going, wow. But we were trained to stay in New York, you see. We were trained as stage actors. We didn't think about going west.

Right. Because it was like selling out or... Or we weren't film actors. We were legitimate actors, legitimate stage actors. And I sort of regret now not going out to California sooner. I mean, I'm always fascinated when people like you who have had long sustained careers that last many decades and have very different phases...

Sort of how you experience that. I mean, you know, as I said, like I feel like in the past 10, 15 years, like I don't know, maybe since you did Gypsy that it's just like you have been popping up in really unexpected fun places and you must be getting like really interesting offers that maybe I don't know if you were getting like.

20 years ago, but then, of course, to go back to the 70s and, you know, you were in Evita and the toast of the town. I mean, how do you experience that of the sort of like the ups and downs and the different phases and how people view you differently over the course of? You know, I never get the roles that I want.

And so there's, and this is true probably of every actor, you know, our profession is 99% rejection. How do you absorb that rejection and continue? How does it not affect you personally for the rest of your life? Just rejection, rejection, rejection. At some point, you stop crying and stop pitying yourself. And in my particular case, I went ungrateful.

I'm not going to go after any roles anymore. I'm going to trust that what comes into my life, what floats into my universe is what I'm supposed to play. And what has happened has been so interesting. I mean, Steven's universe. People are fans of mine because of Steven's universe. The cartoon...

I thought you meant Stephen Sondheim's universe. That's my MCU. Right. No, Stephen's universe. It's a cartoon. It's a cult cartoon, and I play Yellow Diamond in that. And she approached me because she's a musical theater fan. She wanted to know if I would do it, and I went, yeah. You think you can get away, Rose? You stood your ground on that little speck called Earth. But you're on our world now.

And I don't say no to stuff like that. I mean, I just don't. I think it's also the way I was trained at Juilliard. They tried to throw me out of school, so they threw every possible role in my direction in order for me to fail as an actor. And what they did is they trained one person in versatility.

And the rest of them fit into ingenue, soubrette, leading lady, character woman. And I would bounce back and forth. And so it trained my mind to go, it's all interesting. I am not one commodity. And therefore, the weirder, the happier I am.

One aspect of your longevity that is very particular to you and to musical theater performers, of course, is your voice. And so many people have observed that your incredible belt, your incredible vocal skills have outlasted a lot of your contemporaries. Yeah.

But what goes into that? I mean, I just was listening to your double album from this summer, Life in Notes, and you're still belting Don't Cry for Me, Argentina. I couldn't tell you what it is. I don't know what it is unless I made a pact with the devil and I wasn't aware of it. I don't know. I was just born with cords of steel. I don't... How do I say this? I...

Don't take care of my voice the way a lot of people take care of their voices. I don't vocalize every day. I shout and scream. I'm an Italian. I had a vocal cord operation because I was bursting a blood vessel in one of my cords. And then I rehabilitated with Joan Lader, who gave me a technique, which I did not have. I'm singing lighter than I've ever sung before. I'm using more head voice in vocalese.

to make sure that the note is there and then somehow I power up to it. But why my voice is still there, I have no idea. You know, I noticed that listening to this double album you released in July, A Life in Notes, that some of what you're singing is sort of breathier than people might associate with you. It's not all, you know, belting. And some of the song, and that does affect sort of

your interpretations of certain things. I mean, people who've heard you sing, you know, like, Don't Cry For Me Argentina a million times, you know, this version is like, it starts out a little softer with an acoustic guitar. Do you find that sort of the way that your voice changes affects your sort of artistic interpretation of songs like that? No, it's the artistic that changes the voice. It doesn't need to be belted. Trust that I still have a pianissimo.

Trust that I still have lyric. And it's there. It won't be easy. I think it's strange when I try to explain. I feel that I still need all that I don't. One of the ones that I really love that you do on this double album is a Janice Ian song called Stars. It's just gorgeous. Thank you. I'm curious what...

How you discovered that song? What drew you to it? Why did you decide to sing it? I knew that song from when she first came out with it. I knew, like I said, I knew I would end up on the Broadway musical stage, but I'm a closet rocker or a closet groupie. You know, we all have that music that we grew up with that we remember. You know, even five years old, you remember songs that...

Just speak to a moment in your life. And that's what I wanted to do.

Patty, I could talk to you about your groupie days and 70s New York City for another three hours, but I think we've got to let you go. Well, we ended on a nice note, right? The 70s New York. It was wild. It was great. You know, it was creative. It was phenomenally creative. It was bankrupt, but it wasn't morally bankrupt. It wasn't a corporate environment. It was artistically incredibly creative. Hmm.

as one is when one has no money. You figure it out, and the city figured it out. That's Patti LuPone speaking with The New Yorker's Michael Schulman. LuPone stars alongside Mia Farrow in The Roommate, a play by Jen Silverman. This is The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Renwick. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.

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