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cover of episode Is a “Win-Win” Still Possible in Policing?

Is a “Win-Win” Still Possible in Policing?

2023/11/7
logo of podcast The New Yorker Radio Hour

The New Yorker Radio Hour

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Anya Bidwell
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Michael White
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Samuel Sinyangwe
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Samuel Sinyangwe:美国联邦政府对警察暴力数据的收集方式存在严重缺陷,导致数据严重不足且不准确。这阻碍了对警察暴力问题的深入了解和有效解决。此外,警察暴力具有系统性问题,黑人被警察杀死的可能性是白人的三倍以上。尽管如此,每年死于警察之手的总人数却相对稳定,这凸显了问题的严重性和复杂性。近十年来,对低级别非暴力犯罪的逮捕数量大幅减少,这在一定程度上缓解了警民冲突,但并未从根本上解决警察暴力问题。他支持废除警察制度,但认为这需要循序渐进、基于证据地进行,并需要建立新的社区支持系统。 Anya Bidwell:数据透明对于解决警察暴力问题至关重要,数据可以增强诉讼的力度。即使有视频证据,由于“合格豁免权”(qualified immunity),也很难对警察追究责任。可以在州一级法院提起诉讼,绕过联邦“合格豁免权”的限制。她认为,在适当的制衡机制下,可以同时降低犯罪率,保障公众和警察的安全。她不赞成废除警察制度,但支持公民能够在政府侵犯其权利时提起诉讼,并认为“黑人的命也是命”运动有效地传播了其理念,并受益于公民用手机记录事件的便利。 Michael White:警用执法记录仪的部署效果好坏参半,其影响取决于警局的初始状态和应用方式。一个问题重重的警局和一个管理良好的警局,其效果大相径庭。他不赞成彻底废除警察制度,但支持将警察不擅长的任务分包给其他机构,例如心理健康危机干预。他认为,改革需要循证,不能贸然行动。

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The discussion explores the impact of the Black Lives Matter movement on policing, focusing on whether there have been measurable changes in addressing police violence and abuse.

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As the Black Lives Matter movement brought sustained national attention to police shootings of unarmed Black people, there have been many efforts made around the country to reform policing. The movement also became associated with police abolition and the controversial call for defunding. Kai Wright), the host of WNYC’s “Notes from America,” convenes a panel to look at the effects of the movement on policing, talking to the policy analyst Samuel Sinyangwe, of Mapping Police Violence); the attorney Anya Bidwell, of the Institute for Justice; and Michael White, a professor at Arizona State University’s School of Criminology and Criminal Justice. Assessing the results of reform efforts remains difficult, because obstacles exist even to the collecting of data. “We have a system of eighteen thousand different law-enforcement agencies, each with their own set of policies and practices, their own department culture,” Sinyangwe says, and yet certain patterns are repeated year after year: Black people, he says, “are about three times more likely to be killed than white people” by the police.  The group explores the widespread adoption of body cameras, and the push to change legal landscape around qualified immunity, which make it difficult to prosecute police officers even in egregious cases of the use of force. Bidwell argues that, “as long as we have a system of checks and balances that operates properly,” it is possible to reduce crime, while keeping the public and officers safe. “If everybody does what they’re supposed to do, then we can actually have a win-win-win situation.” And although there have been reductions in arrests for low-level, non-violent offenses, many systemic, deeply troubling trends in police departments have continued unabated, including a relatively stable number of a thousand and fifty to twelve hundred people killed by police annually.