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cover of episode Liz Cheney: Donald Trump Should Go to Jail if Convicted

Liz Cheney: Donald Trump Should Go to Jail if Convicted

2023/12/8
logo of podcast The New Yorker Radio Hour

The New Yorker Radio Hour

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Liz Cheney认为美国面临着可能选举一位有独裁倾向的总统的危险,特朗普是主要威胁。她指出,美国人逐渐接受了以前无法接受的事情,对特朗普的独裁野心麻木不仁。她认为特朗普的策略是发表极端言论,让许多人认为他不可能当真。她还认为特朗普有真实可能赢得2024年总统大选,并且他将比之前更危险,因为在第二个特朗普任期内,他不会遵守法院的裁决,并会赦免为他效力的人。她还批评了共和党内许多人出于政治利益或逃避现实而支持特朗普。她认为,民主党需要解决日益严重的仇视犹太主义、边境问题和犯罪问题,并重新强调国家的积极方面,以扩大其吸引力,阻止特朗普当选。她还谈到了她拒绝与特朗普对话的原因,以及她对现任众议院议长麦克·约翰逊的担忧。最后,她表示,如果特朗普被判有罪,他应该入狱。 David Remnick引导了与Liz Cheney的对话,就特朗普的独裁倾向、2024年大选以及美国民主的现状和未来展开了深入探讨。他向Liz Cheney提出了尖锐的问题,例如特朗普当选的可能性、共和党内部对特朗普的态度、民主党需要改进的地方以及Liz Cheney本人未来的政治打算等。

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Liz Cheney discusses the potential threat of Donald Trump becoming an aspiring dictator and how the acceptance of his actions has increased over time.

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Liz Cheney has been Republican royalty, and a conservative stalwart in Washington—a daughter of former Vice-President Dick Cheney and culture warrior Lynne Cheney. But after protesting Donald Trump’s election lies, and voting for his impeachment after January 6th, she found herself in exile from the G.O.P. Cheney is contemplating a Presidential campaign on a third-party line.  As she promotes her new book, “Oath and Honor,” she is raising the alarm that Americans across the political spectrum have become “numb” to Trump’s overtly dictatorial aspirations. “People really understood that what he had done [on January 6th] was unacceptable, not to mention unconstitutional and illegal,” she tells David Remnick. “That recognition quickly dwindled.” She finds herself frustrated with former allies on the right who have become shameless enablers of Trump; she does not trust Speaker Mike Johnson, a former friend, to perform his constitutional duties during the electoral process. She is also concerned that the left is squandering an opportunity to defeat Donald Trump in 2024 by alienating some of the voters whose support they need on issues such as crime and immigration. Trump “has figured out a way, as dictators have in the past, to make those people think he speaks for them,” she says. Still, Cheney’s faith in the country’s institutions and judiciary has not been totally shaken. Asked if Trump should go to jail if convicted—on any of his ninety-one federal charges—she says yes without hesitation; but we must not presume that “someone else is going to save us from him.”