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cover of episode Naomi Klein Speaks with Jia Tolentino about “Doppelganger”

Naomi Klein Speaks with Jia Tolentino about “Doppelganger”

2023/9/19
logo of podcast The New Yorker Radio Hour

The New Yorker Radio Hour

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Naomi Klein
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Naomi Klein: 本书以作者本人与Naomi Wolf被混淆的经历为开端,探讨了当代政治中存在的诡异的镜像关系和阴谋论。弗洛伊德将“诡异”定义为将熟悉的事物转变为陌生的事物,而当代政治正是这种“诡异”的体现,人们难以辨别现实的真伪。气候变化否认者拒绝接受气候变化科学,因为这会挑战他们的世界观,这种否认现实的冲动已经泛化到生活的方方面面。人们否认现实的冲动已经泛化到各方面,包括对名人的阴谋论,这反映了人们面对难以接受的真相时的逃避心理。左翼在应对COVID-19疫情时过于被动,未能充分利用一些关键议题,导致右翼借此机会争取支持者。班农的策略是利用左翼忽视的议题,争取那些感到被背叛和不被代表的选民。气候变化等问题迫使人们直面自身与全球问题的关联,不能再忽视那些被压抑的“影子自我”。人们逃避现实的原因之一是难以面对自身与不公正事件的关联性。阴谋论是一种逃避现实的方式,但逃避现实的方式有很多种,人们需要直面自身的问题。 Gia Tolentino: 克莱因的新书《Doppelganger》以作者本人与Naomi Wolf被混淆的经历为开端,探讨了当代政治中存在的诡异的镜像关系和阴谋论。

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Naomi Klein discusses her new book 'Doppelganger' which explores the concept of political doppelgangers, starting with her own case of mistaken identity with Naomi Wolf and expanding into broader political and societal reflections.

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For twenty-some years, Naomi Klein has been a leading thinker on the left. She’s especially known for the idea of disaster capitalism: an analysis that the forces of big business will exploit any severe disruption to take over more space in our lives. She was often confused with another prominent political writer, Naomi Wolf—once a feminist on the left who has, in recent years, embraced conspiracy theories on the right and is now on good terms with Steve Bannon. Klein’s new book, “Doppelganger,” starts with this simple case of mistaken identity and broadens into an analysis of our political moment, which she describes as “uncanny” in the psychological sense. “Freud described the uncanny as that species of frightening that changes what was once familiar to something unfamiliar,” she tells the staff writer Jia Tolentino). “It’s that weirdness of ‘I think I know what this is, but it’s not what I think.’ ” Klein argues that the left and the right have become doppelgangers of one another—and that denialism regarding climate change has widened to any number of topics, including the claim that Joe Biden is dead and is being played by an actor. “Whenever you don’t like reality, you can just say that it’s not real,” she says.