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cover of episode Rachel Aviv on Alice Munro’s Family Secrets

Rachel Aviv on Alice Munro’s Family Secrets

2025/1/3
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The New Yorker Radio Hour

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David Remnick
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Rachel Aviv
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David Remnick: 本节目讨论了诺贝尔文学奖得主艾丽斯·芒罗的文学成就及其女儿安德莉亚揭露的家庭性侵犯丑闻。这引发了人们对一位富有同理心的作家如何背叛自己孩子的疑问,以及芒罗的创作是否与其家庭悲剧有关。 Rachel Aviv: 我的报道深入探讨了芒罗的家庭悲剧,以及其女儿安德莉亚被继父性侵的经历。安德莉亚在事件发生后多年才得到支持,这对她造成了严重的心理创伤。芒罗在得知事件后,短暂离开弗雷姆林,但一个月后又回到他身边,这引发了人们对其行为的质疑。 艾丽斯·芒罗的许多作品都反映了她对人际关系的敏锐观察,以及对人性的复杂性的探索。然而,她的家庭悲剧也为她的作品增添了新的解读维度。 安德莉亚的经历和观点:安德莉亚在节目中分享了她被继父性侵的经历,以及她多年来遭受的痛苦和孤独。她对母亲的行为感到失望和愤怒,但她同时也表达了对母亲的理解和同情。 杰瑞·弗雷姆林:弗雷姆林在坦白信中详细描述了他的行为,并试图为自己辩护,这进一步加剧了事件的复杂性。 罗伯特·萨克:芒罗的传记作者罗伯特·萨克对性侵事件保持沉默,这引发了人们对其行为的质疑。 Rachel Aviv: 艾丽斯·芒罗的写作风格独特,她善于刻画人物内心世界,并突破短篇小说的形式限制。她的作品关注沉默者和被沉默者,以及那些事后才理解自己人生的人。她的作品反映了她人生不同阶段的经历和感悟,并以独特的跳跃式时间线叙事。她对生活细节有着敏锐的洞察力,并将其转化为创作灵感。她是一位非常私密低调的作家。安德莉亚揭露性侵事件后,许多人认为她应该对此进行报道。安德莉亚的继父杰瑞·弗雷姆林在她九岁时开始性侵她,并持续多年。弗雷姆林在坦白信中详细描述了他的行为,并试图为自己辩护。艾丽斯·芒罗在得知事件后,短暂离开弗雷姆林,但一个月后又回到他身边。艾丽斯·芒罗与弗雷姆林的关系中存在心理虐待的因素,她对弗雷姆林的依赖导致她无法离开。艾丽斯·芒罗曾认为,要求母亲因丈夫的错误而牺牲自己的幸福是不公平的,这种想法影响了安德莉亚的认知。艾丽斯·芒罗可能因为写作的优先性而无法真正体会女儿的痛苦。艾丽斯·芒罗曾表示自己喜欢观察事情的发展,这与她写作的习惯有关。艾丽斯·芒罗对人际关系的观察成为其创作的素材。艾丽斯·芒罗在小说《野天鹅》中也体现了对事情发展结果的关注。艾丽斯·芒罗可能因为对冲突的关注而未能与丈夫和女儿和解。艾丽斯·芒罗童年的创伤经历可能影响了她与弗雷姆林的关系。艾丽斯·芒罗的行为既可以理解为艺术家的残酷,也可以理解为受伤者的无助。艾丽斯·芒罗与弗雷姆林的关系可能无意识地复制了她童年的模式。艾丽斯·芒罗在公众面前表现出一种表演性人格。安德莉亚在2004年向警方报案,这与Daphne Merkin的采访有关。警方对安德莉亚的报案给予了重视。弗雷姆林认罪,但案件处理较为迅速和低调。艾丽斯·芒罗在加拿大享有盛誉,这影响了案件的处理。在安德莉亚揭露事件之前,许多记者不愿报道此事。即使在2024年,记者也对报道此事有所犹豫。艾丽斯·芒罗的家人在事件发生后选择保持沉默,这与媒体的反应相似。安德莉亚在事件发生后多年才得到支持,这对她造成了严重的心理创伤。安德莉亚的家人为了保护艾丽斯·芒罗而选择沉默。艾丽斯·芒罗的传记作者罗伯特·萨克对性侵事件保持沉默,这引发了人们对其行为的质疑。萨克的回应让安德莉亚感到不满。安德莉亚认为忽略性侵事件是对其母亲作品的误读。艾丽斯·芒罗后期的许多作品都受到了性侵事件的影响。小说《破坏者》是艾丽斯·芒罗作品中受性侵事件影响最直接的一部。《破坏者》中的一些细节与安德莉亚的经历和弗雷姆林的信件内容相似。安德莉亚最初对母亲作品抱有希望,但后来意识到母亲的创作并未真正关注她自身的经历。安德莉亚对母亲作品中人物的被动和麻木感到愤怒。安德莉亚在经历了性侵事件后依然保持积极的生活态度。安德莉亚在童年时期承担了维护家庭的责任。艾丽斯·芒罗曾描述过自己被性侵后的麻木状态,安德莉亚对此感到愤怒。安德莉亚对艾丽斯·芒罗获得诺贝尔奖的反应。艾丽斯·芒罗的性侵事件对其文学遗产的影响。艾丽斯·芒罗的作品引发了人们对艺术代价的思考。艾丽斯·芒罗可能为了成为作家而牺牲了与女儿的关系。艾丽斯·芒罗为了成为作家而放弃了对母亲的照顾,这与她对女儿的态度存在相似之处。对艾丽斯·芒罗行为的评价。艾丽斯·芒罗曾表示,承认自己与恋童癖者在一起会毁掉她的声誉。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What was the nature of the abuse Andrea Skinner suffered at the hands of Gerald Fremlin?

Andrea Skinner was sexually abused by Gerald Fremlin, her stepfather, starting when she was nine years old. The abuse began when she asked to sleep in the master bedroom while her mother, Alice Munro, was away. Fremlin got into her bed and sexually abused her, and the abuse continued for years, including him exposing himself and propositioning her.

How did Alice Munro react when Andrea revealed the abuse to her in 1992?

Alice Munro initially left Gerald Fremlin and went to their second home on the west coast of Canada. However, she took him back within a month, explaining to Andrea that she loved him too much, was too dependent on him, and felt too old to leave. This decision deeply affected Andrea, who felt her mother prioritized her relationship with Fremlin over her daughter's well-being.

Why did Alice Munro stay with Gerald Fremlin despite knowing about the abuse?

Alice Munro stayed with Gerald Fremlin due to a combination of emotional dependency, a sense of helplessness, and a belief that her writing was her primary purpose. She also internalized a misogynistic idea that it was unfair to expect a mother to sacrifice her happiness for her child. Additionally, her own traumatic childhood and patterns of abuse may have influenced her decision to stay.

How did Gerald Fremlin justify his actions in letters to Alice Munro?

In letters to Alice Munro, Gerald Fremlin bizarrely justified his actions by referencing Nabokov's 'Lolita,' claiming he was responding to a 'nine-year-old seductress' and comparing himself to the character Humbert Humbert. These letters were detailed confessions that revealed his disturbing mindset and obsession with the novel.

What role did Alice Munro's writing play in her response to the abuse?

Alice Munro's writing seemed to take precedence over her personal life, including her response to the abuse. She viewed her art as her primary purpose, often dissociating from real-life events to observe and document them. This detachment allowed her to use traumatic experiences, including her daughter's abuse, as material for her stories, such as 'Vandals,' which directly mirrored the family's trauma.

How did Andrea Skinner's siblings respond to her disclosure of abuse?

Andrea Skinner's siblings, Jenny and Andrew, initially tried to protect their mother, Alice Munro, by keeping the abuse a secret. They believed their mother was too fragile to handle the truth and feared it would destroy her. This led to a family dynamic where Andrea felt devalued and dehumanized, as her siblings prioritized their mother's well-being over hers.

What was the outcome of the police investigation into Gerald Fremlin's abuse?

Gerald Fremlin pled guilty to indecent assault in a quick court case that excluded the press. The trial was resolved with a one-sentence admission of guilt, and Fremlin avoided significant public scrutiny. Alice Munro, who had initially planned to leave him, canceled her plans after the case concluded, likely due to the lack of public fallout.

How did Alice Munro's literary legacy become intertwined with the abuse scandal?

Alice Munro's literary legacy became intertwined with the abuse scandal as readers and critics began to question the cost of her art. Her stories often explored themes of silence, trauma, and passivity, which mirrored her personal life. The revelation of her complicity in protecting Fremlin forced a reevaluation of her work, raising questions about the ethical implications of using personal trauma as artistic material.

What was Andrea Skinner's reaction to Alice Munro winning the Nobel Prize?

Andrea Skinner found it particularly difficult to watch her sister, Jenny, accept the Nobel Prize on Alice Munro's behalf. She felt that her absence from the family allowed them to live in a unified reality, further erasing her own experiences and pain. The event highlighted the family's prioritization of Munro's legacy over Andrea's well-being.

How did Alice Munro's biographer, Robert Thacker, handle the abuse scandal in his work?

Robert Thacker, Alice Munro's biographer, chose to ignore the abuse scandal, stating that it was not the focus of his book. He dismissed the significance of the abuse, claiming that 'every family has a thing like this.' This decision to omit such a pivotal aspect of Munro's life and work was criticized by Andrea Skinner, who felt it undermined the context in which Munro's stories were created.

Chapters
This chapter introduces Alice Munro, a Nobel Prize-winning author known for her profound short stories, and reveals the dark secret that emerged after her death: the sexual abuse of her youngest daughter, Andrea Skinner, by Munro's partner, Gerald Fremlin. The chapter explores the initial reactions and the impact of this revelation.
  • Alice Munro's literary achievements and recognition.
  • The revelation of sexual abuse of her daughter Andrea by Gerald Fremlin.
  • The initial shock and conundrum surrounding Munro's actions.

Shownotes Transcript

Rachel Aviv) reports on the terrible conundrum of Alice Munro for The New Yorker. Munro was a winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature and perhaps the most acclaimed writer of short stories of our time, but her legacy darkened after her death when her youngest daughter, Andrea Skinner, revealed that Munro’s partner had sexually abused her beginning when she was nine years old. The crime was known in the family, but even after a criminal conviction of Gerald Fremlin, Munro stood by him, at the expense of her relationship with Skinner. In her piece), Aviv explores how, and why, a writer of such astonishing powers of empathy could betray her own child, and discusses the ways that Munro touched on this family trauma in fiction. “Her writing makes you think about art at what expense,” she tells David Remnick. “That’s probably a question that is relevant for many artists, but Alice Munro makes it visible on the page. It felt so literal—like trading your daughter for art.”