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cover of episode Trump’s Authoritarian Pronouncements Recall a Dark History

Trump’s Authoritarian Pronouncements Recall a Dark History

2024/3/22
logo of podcast The New Yorker Radio Hour

The New Yorker Radio Hour

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Adam Gopnik
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David Remnick
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David Remnick:戈普尼克的文章巧妙地将特朗普与希特勒进行了类比,指出特朗普利用民主制度的弱点以达到个人权力目的,这与希特勒在德国的策略如出一辙。文章虽然没有直接点名特朗普,但其警示意义却十分明显。特朗普自2020年大选失败后,一系列行为都带有浓厚的威权主义色彩,公然挑战法律,煽动民众,对反对者进行人身攻击和贬低,这些都值得我们警惕。 Adam Gopnik:法西斯主义的本质并非在于意识形态,而在于对魅力型领袖的个人崇拜。法西斯主义领袖的政策可以反复无常,但追随者仍然会忠诚于他。关于希特勒是否有明确的意识形态存在争议,但《我的奋斗》更像是一部充满怨恨和屈辱的个人自传,它赋予了那些怀有同样情绪的人以表达的理由。希特勒和特朗普之间存在相似之处,他们的权力都源于其厚颜无耻和对精英阶层的怨恨。特朗普主义的负面纲领(即仇恨的对象)比正面纲领(即政策目标)更加清晰明确。希特勒的支持者们并非都渴望彻底的社会变革,他们只是为了保护自身利益而投票,而他们的敌人往往是虚构的或被夸大的。特朗普的转变可能与他在纽约房地产界遭受的社会性羞辱有关,他感到被主流社会排斥。极权主义领导人往往会制造混乱,以至于人们忽略了其重要行为。奥巴马在记者晚宴上调侃特朗普,特朗普的反应显示了他无法忍受羞辱。特朗普的煽动风格类似于美国讽刺喜剧演员,既夸张又真实,既给了人们表达仇恨的许可,又为其提供了某种程度的保护。希特勒的言论也具有讽刺性和模棱两可性,这使得追随者既可以表达极端情绪,又可以为自己的行为找借口。美国目前面临的危险在于,人们在不知不觉中走向独裁,主流媒体过于关注政治策略,而忽视了特朗普的危险性。媒体需要持续不断地强调特朗普的危险性,而不是只关注新信息。媒体的责任是说出真相,即使需要重复强调。 Adam Gopnik: 美国目前面临的危险在于,人们在不知不觉中走向独裁。如果特朗普再次当选,美国将面临巨大的风险,任何替代方案都可能比现状更好。国家难以从屈服于威权主义领导人中恢复过来。美国人对民主的承诺程度可能不如我们想象的那么高。自由民主制度一直以来都非常脆弱,容易受到威胁,始终面临各种威胁,例如共产主义、恐怖主义等。尽管自由民主制度脆弱,但它仍然值得保护,因为它提供了繁荣和多元化的可能性。美国是一个多元化的社会,各种信仰和生活方式能够共存,这是值得珍惜的。

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Adam Gopnik discusses Trump's early claims of fascism, drawing parallels to Hitler's rise to power. He analyzes the nature of fascism, emphasizing its reliance on charismatic leadership and lack of fixed ideology. Gopnik and Remnick examine the psychological similarities between Hitler and Trump, highlighting their shared sense of social humiliation and resentment.

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In 2016, before most people imagined that Donald Trump would become a serious contender for the Presidency, the New Yorker staff writer Adam Gopnik wrote about) what he later called the “F-word”: fascism.  He saw Trump’s authoritarian rhetoric not as a new force in America but as a throwback to a specific historical precedent in nineteen-thirties Europe.  In the years since, Trump has called for “terminating” articles of the Constitution, has celebrated the January 6th insurrectionists as political martyrs, and has called his enemies animals, vermin, and “not people,” and demonstrated countless other examples of authoritarian behavior.  In a new essay), Gopnik reviews a book by the historian Timothy W. Ryback, and considers Adolf Hitler’s unlikely ascent in the early nineteen-thirties. He finds alarming analogies with this moment in the U.S.  In both Trump and Hitler, “The allegiance to the fascist leader is purely charismatic,” Gopnik says. In both men, he sees “someone whose power lies in his shamelessness,” and whose prime motivation is a sense of humiliation at the hands of those described as élites. “It wasn’t that the great majority of  Germans were suddenly lit aflame by a nihilist appetite for apocalyptic transformation,” Gopnik notes. “They [were] voting to protect what they perceive as their interest from their enemies. Often those enemies are largely imaginary.”