House Of The Dragon: Ep. 2 “The Rogue Prince”
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Good morrow, my lords. I have decided to take a new wife. I intend to marry the Lady Alicent Hightower before spring's end.

Oh, it's an age old story. Your mom dies. Then your dad names you air. Then your dad starts dating your best friend from high school. And then it turns out they're going to get married. Just a classic fairy tale. Isn't it, Greta? I mean, it's definitely like Oedipal anyway. We can say that this is not good, y'all. This is not good at all. Yeah, I feel like the group chat is going to be different now.

Welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon. I'm Jason Concepcion, host of X-Ray Vision from Crooked Media. And I'm Greta Johnson, host of WBEZ's Nerd Out podcast. And this is a Game of Thrones podcast for everyone, whether you are an OG Thrones watcher or you just started your journey with the HBO original series, House of the Dragon.

Greta, action-packed episode two. Can't wait to talk about what went down. This episode also features an interview with Emily Carey, who plays our younger Alison Hightower. Yes. Let's get into it. Greta, you ready with the speed recap? I am. Okay, ready?

Six months have passed. King Viserys's extremely chaotic brother, Daemon, has taken over Dragonstone, which is where he flew off to with his special friend, Mysaria. He sneaks back to King's Landing to steal a dragon egg for his maybe-baby, which really pisses everybody off. Otto goes to deal with it, but in the end, it's Rhaenyra who shows up on Dragonback and gets the egg back. Meanwhile, Alicent has been spending a lot of time with the king, which ends up paying off big time for her and her dad, Otto, but really pisses off Corlys.

We learn the pirate drama is heating up, but the king won't let Corlys take care of it, so Corlys decides to team up with Daemon to get the job done. In other news, King Viserys is getting some maggot treatments, and I can confirm Ser Criston is indeed hot.

This episode has some excellent lurking, a very awkward family dinner, and an insightful conversation between Raymira and her dad's cousin, the queen that never was. What do you think, Jason? You know, last week we talked about alliances, relationships as kind of the defining theme of that episode. This one is about fractured relationships and the new alliances and new relationships that are kind of tentatively being explored. You know, as we said in the intro...

When your dad reveals that he's about to marry your friend and you had no idea this was going on, this comes completely out of nowhere. I think that's distressing to say nothing of the way Corliss feels, you know, because his family was spurned, that entire other issue with the fact that he had proffered his daughter as a child bride. We can get into that later. But what did you think? I thought it was really good. I think you're totally right. I really like it from a kind of narrative point of view that Corliss

the first episode did a really good job of establishing what a lot of these relationships are and have been, and we're already starting to see a lot of them change and crumble, which I think, you know, from like a super dramatic point of view is really interesting. I also have to say I'm really excited that we are already like skipping a chunk of time together.

to get to some action. I think there's like a certain narrative audacity to doing that. And I think it means we can kind of cut to the action a lot faster than some shows do. And I'm super excited about that for sure. Six months is a long time not to talk to your daughter about your wife, her mother passing away. Yeah.

Yeah, man. I mean, and to see how close he and Allison are becoming in the meantime. You know, the fact that they're both talking about Rhaenyra and trying to give each other advice on how to interact with her, and they're both keeping this huge secret from her. And then, oh my God, can you imagine the betrayal of being in that room and hearing him announce, like, I'm going to marry your best friend. No big deal. I mean, it was that child or the other child. I know. It's just like, why are those the only options also? I mean...

I imagine Sir Harold Westerling immediately left that room and was like, yo, you are not going to believe what just went down in the small council chamber. Again, with the Westeros TMZ, I do think that would be extremely fun. So can we talk about pirate drama first? Because obviously this is something that's that has heated up and is going to continue to be heating up over the course of the season, we can guess. News at 11, pirate drama remains hot. Yeah.

So what is it's the crab feeder, right? The idea being that like this person kills so many people that the crabs get to eat. Wow, Greta, you nailed it. That's it.

Well, great. Thank you. He's killed so many people on the beaches there that the crabs are constantly fed. They are thriving. They're eating, eating, eating. And so the crab feeder is this kind of adventurer for hire in the employ of the triarchy. Okay. So there is a grouping of three cities on the kind of southwestern most mound of Essos that

Mere, Lys, and Tyrosh, and they have joined together as the Triarchy after defeating their archrival, Volantis, for control of the so-called Disputed Lands. So now that they've done that, they're seeing what else is out there, and they're backing this crab feeder as he moves into the Stepstones to ostensibly clear out the pirates, but do we think that's clearly not all he's going to do? He wants to stick around and

And, you know, Corlys Velaryon being a man of the seas, being a salty dog as he is, is like, are we going to do anything about this? Four ships have now been lost. The last one was flying my banner. I want to seize the stepstones by force and burn out this crab feeder.

Well, and Viserys' response being, you know, essentially like in all of human history, the Seven Kingdoms have never gone to war with the Free Cities. So like that's going to be a real intense move if that's what we decide to do. Yeah. And he's like, listen, I sent a letter to Volantis, the archrival of the Triarchy, to kind of see if maybe they can step in and take some of the pressure off.

But you understand what Viserys' thinking is here. War is expensive. The Triarchy is powerful. Do we really want to get involved in this? Let's see if there's any way we can avoid it. At the same time, I understand, you know, Corlys, as he says later in the episode, and this is part of the fracturing of this relationship of Corlys of House Valerian and the Crown, is, hey, my house is right here. Like, Driftmark is right here. And...

You know, we make a lot of money through narrow-sea trade.

And if the triarchy gets a foothold on the stepstones, all of a sudden my pockets are a lot lighter. And thank you for reimbursing me for the loss of my ships. But, you know, who's going to pay my bills? Well, and it reminds me, too, of that line that Corliss even says later on, which is, you know, essentially like if you want to get out of a storm, you have to either sail into it or around it. But you can't just wait for it to come. That's a great thing to drill down on as we

Think about the relationships between these characters and specifically King Viserys and Corlys and Corlys' house. Corlys is, as he says in that great speech to Daemon, number one, a self-made man, but number two, he's a sea captain. Bootstraps. Bootstraps and a sea captain. When he's at sea, his word goes. And if his word doesn't go, the whole boat sinks and we all die. He is not like great at

at being a follower, even if it's to the king. And you see that in all of their interactions. He's like very up in the king's business. He's kind of yelling at the king to the point that Otto's got to be like, yo, calm down, man. He's pushing a marriage deal on the king.

And whenever the king spurns him, as he does at the end of the episode, Corlys does not take it well because Corlys is not spurned in any other area of his life. So fascinating to see him talking to Damon at the end of this episode.

Yes. I really loved that part where Daemon was like, listen, I can talk trash about my brother, but you can't. Because even as they're forming an alliance, you still see that, you know, and as frustrated as Daemon is with his brother, there is some thread still of allegiance that I'm sure will be really interesting to see how that plays out, you know? I'm fascinated to see what their next move is. Obviously, the Stepstones are going to be involved. And it seems like they're going to take action without the leave of the king. King Viserys...

You know, it's interesting because I think his ideals and his motives and what he's trying to do is very laudable, right? Like be responsible, like not just waste the lives of the people who are going to fight for the realm. At the same time, to Corliss's point about the storm, sometimes events move fast.

Without you. Yeah. And you need to move with them or else you're going to be left behind. And I think you could argue that the king is being left behind here. I found it, you know, as we're talking about fractures, the king is more isolated, I think, than we've seen him yet. Obviously, there's this burgeoning relationship with Alison. They're having dinner. They're hanging out. They're talking about like his carving hobby. But.

King Viserys, all of a sudden, I don't know if it's... Obviously, the king is not dumb. He realizes that Alicent is Otto's daughter. And he also realizes that Otto, in the previous episode...

on the like smoking funeral pyre of his wife and son was like, hey, the succession, let's talk about it. And now all of a sudden, when it's Leanna, Leanna Valerian, who's going to be the bride, all of a sudden he's like, well, you know, I don't envy you, sir. You know, your wife just died. And all of a sudden you're thinking about a replacement. You know, I would I would maybe chill with that. I'd maybe like pump the brakes about that. It's like, where are

are you just saying like I should get married right away? Well, he also literally sent his daughter over. Like, let's not forget that piece of it either. Right. So I wonder now, as we see King Viserys very notably say, hey, I want to take a one on one meeting with my master of laws, Lionel Strong, and take his temperature in the same way that I would take the hands temperature. I think what we're seeing here is King Viserys feeling one isolated and two paranoid. I have come looking for an unencumbered opinion.

That's all I would ever give, Your Grace. What if I was to reject Lord Corley's proposal? He would not be like to take it well. It's very clear that he has this burgeoning friendship with Alicent and

But it's also clear that he, understanding who her family is and who her father is, that he doesn't quite trust her and he's looking for other people that he can talk to. And from Allison's point of view, there's that super telling scene right before Otto heads over to Dragonstone where you see that she's been destroying her cuticles. Yeah, her fingernails. Yeah. You're the most comely girl I've caught. Why do you destroy yourself?

You are the most comely maid at court. Why do you destroy yourself? God, the word comely. Turns out, don't love that one. But yeah, it's just so like, I don't know. I thought this episode really was striking in terms of so many people are vying for these roles, but so many of the people who are vying for those roles know how difficult those roles are going to be. You know, I think about that even with our child bride too, right? Like,

And that scene where he's like, she says, you know, I think our match would be really good for our families. And Viserys is like, is that what your father told you to say? It's just so intense. Well, like, obviously, because I'm 11. So, yes. But, you know, like my dad told me. But you were mentioning like roles and people trying out these roles and seeing how they necessarily fit. But I thought one fascinating thing.

burgeoning relationship here is Rhaenys, the queen that never was, and Rhaenyra. Rhaenys, obviously, was voted out, missed her shot at being queen, but is clearly very, very interested in how Rhaenyra handles this increased burden of responsibility. Well, of course. Wouldn't you be? Absolutely. Well, and just the symbolism of both of them watching...

have this conversation with this potential child bride. And the other thing I thought was really interesting that I want to point out, which is just kind of a small thing, but I thought was very indicative of kind of where Rhaenyra feels like she's at right now is that moment when she is talking to Alicent in the Sept. I want him to see me as more than this little girl. My own father does not know the language of girls either. When I wish to talk with him, I know that I must make the effort.

A really telling window into her anxieties about what is going on here. Right. And I think also probably not 100% wrong. Like there's some truth to that.

I want to quickly talk about Kristen Cole. Okay. And there seems to be a budding relationship there because Rhaenyra was just like, you, hey, what's up? You've actually fought in wars and not just like arrested some guy who is hungry and was hunting for deer. Terrible.

So that is clearly going to be an important relationship going forward as he joins the Kingsguard. But I wanted to mention, so we said in the or I said in the previous episode after Allison was like, he's Dornish when he takes off his helmet. Right at the at the tourney, right at the airs tourney that that seemed to be a book change. Well, when Kristen Cole's

you know, history is laid out by Sir Harold here. It is actually the book. It is. It's the book bio. So they haven't changed it, which means again, just to lay it out quickly, Kristen Cole, son of one of the stewards of Black Haven, which is the seat of house Dundarian on the Dornish marches, which just means the borderland of the storm lands and Dorn, a very active area for reasons I will lay out in a second. But so essentially he is from the storm lands and he's,

has done a lot of fighting against the Dornish. And what Allison clearly is reacting to there is that he has Dornish heritage. So clearly his mother was Dornish and that he inherited the Dornish trait of being hot with brown hair.

It's the wavy brown hair, I think. You need that texture, you know? That's an important piece. Remember how in Game of Thrones season one, Ned got that big book of genealogy and was like, you know, going through the Brathians and it's like Brathian, like brown of hair, you know, black of hair. So I guess what we're learning is that the Stormlander brunettes, all uggos, and...

and the Dornish brunettes. Babes. Kind of cuties. And that's how you can tell. That's how you can...

That's perfect. But so what's interesting here is that so the Dornish marches, just to quickly, Dorne again is not officially part of the kingdom right now. Right. Aegon went to war for about 10 years against Dorne to try and pull them into the kingdom. He lost one of his sisters and a dragon in that war and then called it off. So Dorne is essentially independent right now.

And the Marcher Lords, the Stormlander Lords that live on that borderland, are very influential and powerful because they are constantly defending the Stormlands from raids from the Dornish, which happens regularly, as Kristen Cole says here. And there's another layer to this, which is

Dorne is across the stepstones from the triarchy. Oh, right. Not a good look if you're King Viserys, because let's say the triarchy keeps going. They get the stepstones. They keep going. What if they team up with Dorne? And now I've got a big problem right on my doorstep. Oh, I wanted to say Dorne step. I stopped myself, but then I still said it. So here we are.

So can we talk about Dragonstone and the drama there? It was our first time seeing Dragonstone in this series. Yeah, let's talk about it. So that was a scene that I found really striking because it seemed like Otto was just completely surprised that Damon had a dragon, which I found a little bit frustrating just because I feel like so far what we've seen of Otto is that he is always playing the game out at least three steps in advance. Right.

So the fact that that went the way it did, I found kind of surprising. Did that catch you too? Sort of like, wait, Otto, like you're a schemer. What happened? Actually, well, kind of no. First of all, Otto was sent into a no-win situation. He has no dragons. He's going up against a guy with dragons. He kind of volunteered himself to go. He did volunteer himself. I'm going to run a theory by you. Okay, okay. King Viserys, isolated as we've seen before,

taking a Lord strong into his confidence and taking his temperature about certain things, right? And then all of a sudden he's like, I'm going to Dragonstone myself to take on my brother Daemon. He knows that that's not going to be allowed, right? He knows that somebody is going to step up. Theory here, maybe Viserys understood that Otto would volunteer and he's thinking, okay, if Daemon offs Otto, great.

If Otto kills Damon, great. It's a win-win for me. Why don't I send my hand here who I feel like has been kind of scheming against me? This way, when I do end up marrying his daughter...

My influence is the influence and it's not his influence. I don't worry about other angles. And maybe it's a good look for me if I get Otto to volunteer for this suicide mission. OK, I guess I could see that. It was interesting seeing Rainier show up on a dragon. Obviously, that was super badass and I liked it a lot. And the conversation she had between Damon, I thought was really interesting. I'm right here, uncle. If you wish to be restored as heir, you'll need to kill me.

So do it and be done with all this bother. As many relationships as we did see Frey in this episode, those two still seem to really respect each other, even though it seems like they're obviously coming from really different places and making different life choices. You know, like she got him to concede.

Yeah, the blood of the dragon really telling there. Although another relationship fraying before our eyes in that scene is Damon and Misaria. Oh, yeah. She's pissed. Misaria was like, wait, hold on. We're getting married and I have a child? What? Wait, hold on. What? Yeah, Damon's a bit preemptive there. What are you telling people? And that...

I think is indicative of just the games that Damon plays. Misaria comes to him. And as far as she's concerned, this relationship is about safety. I'm close to a powerful person who's going to keep me safe. I'm not going to be wondering where I'm going or, you know, who I'm being sold to next. And then what does Damon do? Puts her in tremendous peril by potentially positioning her as someone

you know, a rebellious potential heir, you know, in her womb. You announced that we were to be wed? On the morrow. And that I was with child.

It's a real dick move from Damon Targaryen. Also, it's an impulsive dick move, you know, because it's like, what was the outcome he was expecting? He clearly didn't think it out. He's like just poking the bear, you know, he's like, let's see what happens if I fuck with this. It's like, well, yeah, they're going to be super pissed, dude. Like, obviously. Well, I think, again, it's like it's as we said last week.

He just wants his brother to notice him and hang out with him. He is like that little brother who's like, take, you know, oh, you're going to the mall? Take me. Oh, yeah, you're going to watch football? Can I come? Or are you going to play? Can I play? Yeah. Do you want to hang out? Like all he wants is his brother to notice him and say, gosh, you're doing a great job. What a great brother you are. This is fun. The second he walked out holding that egg, were you like, oh, he's going to chuck the egg eventually? Yeah.

Yeah, he was holding it like, you know, like he had just scored the game winning touchdown in like Super Bowl 54. He looked so smug. I know. But to your point, it's like to Otto's credit, he understood that violence was not going to do it. Yeah. Right. He's like, listen, we got to put up the steel. Let's talk about this.

And I think his thought was, I mean, look at the board, Damon. This is not a winning position. Well, they have to rein him in, too. They couldn't have just let him go on the way he, you know, like. Yeah, you keep doing this. And what you're doing is proclaiming war against your brother. And yes, you've got a dragon, but the realm has the other 16. And so think about what you're doing and give up the egg because this is going nowhere.

So I take your point, but I do think Otto was playing a bad hand there.

I guess as well as you could potentially play it. That's fair. I mean, speaking of bad hands, I thought something this episode did really well was demonstrate the fact that Viserys is extremely reluctant to remarry and is being put in a very difficult position very shortly after the death of his wife, who he dearly loved. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is misery for him. The fact that, you know, when Corlys proposes Lyanna... Mm-hmm.

And then he's talking it out. You could see him looking for an off-ramp, even with Lord Strong, when he's like, I don't know, she's like a child. And then Lord Strong is like, she will mature. Okay, great. That's...

You know, he's just looking for anybody to tell him, you know what? Why don't you just grieve right now? Why don't you just process your grief? Just take a minute. And deal with that. It looks like pain this whole time. Not to mention, he's got these burgeoning feelings for Allison, which he knows is going to be a major fracture in the relationship between his daughter and Allison. I will say one thing I appreciate is that

I was going to say his relationship with Allison doesn't seem creepy, which is incorrect because he is in a position of power and, you know, literally she's his daughter's best friend. But I mean, it seems like they both have some sort of affection for each other.

It doesn't seem romantic at all, and I kind of appreciate that about it. You know what I mean? And I don't know. I mean, obviously she feels pressured by her dad to show up, but he seems like a pretty benign older king who wants to marry her if that's a fair... You know what I... There's that moment when she is dressing, helping Otto get into his armor so he can go on suicide mission Dragonstone. And...

You know, he's about to walk into this crazy situation and his... What does he say to his daughter? Will you see the king tonight? If you wish it. And that made me so sad. But also, you're right. This relationship is obviously problematic, but also really subtle because...

They both have this secret. And so they are the only people who they can share certain things with. Yes. Allison's being pushed by her dad to have this relationship, to build this relationship. She can't share it with her best friend, Rhaenyra. The king can't talk to Rhaenyra about the fact that he's been hanging out with her best friend from school and having dinner with her. And he also doesn't trust Otto anymore. So all of a sudden, these two are...

you know, talking about their shared grief. The only person who is letting Viserys grieve is Alicent, who's like, you know, I lost my mother and it's been really hard. Yeah. As problematic as that relationship obviously is, there's still an emotional honesty to it that makes it interesting. I just wanted to note our theme is fractures and that is like embodied in

physically in the shattering of the dragon figurine, which Viserys drops as he's having that conversation about the history of old Valeria with Alicent. A literal shattered dragon. Literally shattered dragon. So a little metaphor for there for you. And then this might be a hot tape, but I'm just going to run it by you. Okay, I'm open. Alicent has the stonemasons fix the dragon and then gives it to him in this fine wooden box.

Terrible. That's a bad gift. I'm sorry. Like, first of all,

You didn't bust out the Elmer's glue and fix it yourself. You went to the stonemasons and was... You didn't risk accidentally gluing your own fingers. A thing, by the way, King Viserys could have done at any time. He could have also done... Like, that's... It's no skin off his blackened finger to go do that himself. I completely agree. Yeah, no, you're totally right. I'm not... I mean, if anything, I just don't think it's that hot of a take because it's like, well, yeah, no, that is kind of a lame... I guess... I guess the argument is it is still thoughtful. Yeah, no, it is thoughtful. And that's the point. She's...

showing up for him. I mean, how happy she is with this entire situation. All of our indications are that she doesn't really want to be there, right? Yes, which is, again, why I find this relationship and these performances so really wonderfully nuanced, to your point. Like, it's both troubling, but there's also a sincerity there, and there's, like, a notable lack of creepiness, despite the fact that it's manifestly creepy, like,

on its face because they are finding this common ground and this ability to talk to each other from the heart in a way that they are not able to share with anybody else. King Viserys is getting criticized for,

from end to end of the realm for being weak. The pirates are on the stepstones. Now the triarchy is pushing out the pirates. Your brother is squatting in Dragonstone. You're not doing anything about it. You've named a woman as the heir for the first time in 100 years. He's in the firm in a multitude of ways too, which we know, but not everybody does. Right, and the only person that he can kind of share his actual weakness, which is the pain of losing his wife with, is Asgore.

Alison Hightower, who similarly has lost her mother and has not been able clearly to share this pain with anybody else but the king. So there is a real, as schemey as this relationship is, and clearly Otto put her up to this, there's something sincere there, which is nice. Yeah, it is. It's really fascinating. So one of my favorite interactions, which was not sincere at all, was the A-plus shit-talking between...

Damon and Kristen on Dragonstone. Do you remember that? Sir Crispin, wasn't it? Sir Crispin Cole, my prince. Ah, yes. Apologies. I couldn't recall. Perhaps my prince recalls when I knocked him off his horse. Yeah. Who's a Crispin? Crispin Glover, is it? And Crispin's like, oh, well, I recognize you from when I smashed you at the tourney, bro. Hey, remember that? Remember that, buddy?

That's always fun. Yeah. And it must be nice for Crispin. Now I call them Crispin. It must be nice for Kristen Cole. You know, previously when he beat Prince of the City, Damon Targaryen, he was very gracious. He offered to help him up.

The prince spurned him. And now to be able to talk shit because- Right? Daemon is on the outs, it's got to feel good. Yeah. It's got to feel good. I just love some good thronesy shit talking. It's always a good time. Also, I'm like a little surprised, although I'm sure Ada would have gotten to this place had Rhaenyra not shown up. I'm a little surprised that

Kristen Cole wasn't immediately like, hey, let's just do it one on one for the egg. What do you say? You versus me. Let's not get everybody involved in this. You know, a classic Game of Thrones classic move. You versus me. We don't need to get the city watch involved. We don't need to get the Kingsguard and everybody in Grand Maester Mellos all singed up here.

yeah, let's just do it. Let's just get the rematch right here on the bridge. That would have been kind of fun. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened eventually, though. You know, I kind of feel like there's obviously some animosity between the two that they're going to need to work out physically together. You know, I completely agree.

So should we talk about the dragon? I feel like there's a little bit of dragon lore that we picked up in little bits of exposition that I think you might be able to help kind of fill in some gaps for those of us who haven't read the book. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's talk about dragons. So what do we have? Like, can we start with why Viserys doesn't have a dragon? That has not been, like, very clearly explained for me. Okay. Yeah.

So Viserys was the last person, as he says in that little conversation with Lena, he was the last person to ride Balerion the Black Dread, the famed dragon mount of Aegon the Conqueror, one of the oldest creatures alive when it was alive. And Balerion died.

And that was it. Viserys never bonded with another dragon. So he was only very, very briefly rode Balerion. And then he's just kind of been dragonless this whole time. What was interesting was the talk of Vhagar. So Vhagar, it was Aegon's queen sister Visenya's dragon. Later, the dragon of Baelon the Brave, who was one of King Jaehaerys' many heirs that didn't make it. Okay.

And ever since that time, Vhagar's just been in the wind. Vhagar's AWOL. And we learn that Vhagar, obviously, too big to even fit in the dragon pit. That's how big Vhagar is. But I think some cool clues here. Lana says... Do you know where Vhagar is now? The dragon keepers believe she made home somewhere on the coast of the Narrow Sea. The workers at Spicetown report hearing her song at times. They say it's a sad thing.

So Spicetown is a trading town on the island of Driftmark, which is, you know, where the Valerians live. It's said that they hear Vhagar's song and then it's sad. Oh, that's fun. And then King Viserys is like, well, you know, they say that Vhagar is somewhere on the coast, which, by the way, like the coast, that's like saying the eastern seaboard. Thank you for narrowing it down, King Viserys. Yeah.

But I think that I would not be surprised if Vhagar is very close to Driftmark somewhere, because why else would the workers of Spicetown be able to hear the song of Vhagar? Okay, that's an interesting seed. So then to what extent, given Targaryen lore, like how common is it for a baby Targaryen to get a dragon egg and grow up with it versus something like Viserys who just sort of like rides a dragon that's already around? Yeah.

It's very common for newborn Targaryens, people in the Targaryen family to be given a dragon. Again, it was taken over time to be kind of like a symbol of the right to power, much as...

giving someone Blackfyre, the sword of Aegon the Conqueror, would be a symbol that this person is important and is a legitimate Targaryen. Bonding with the dragon was an important symbol. Maegor the Cruel, who we talked about a little bit last week, there was a lot of scourging

scuttlebutt early in his life about the fact that he had not yet bonded with a dragon. It took him, he did eventually do it, but it's an important step in the life of a Targaryen to bond with a dragon. And it's often done, as we have seen here at infancy, where you place the dragon egg in the cradle and you hope a bonding takes place. One thing I think is a really interesting device that we're seeing happening in certain conversations is the use of Valyrian.

Have you been thinking about that too, Jason? You know? Yeah. So dragons are addressed in Valerian, as you well know. Right, of course. From raising my own juvenile dragon, by the way. That's right. The dragon keepers would speak Valerian and would in fact probably be like...

you know, the ancestors of the original dragon stable keepers that had come over from Valeria with their family. So it would make sense that they would speak Valerian. And it would also make sense that the Targaryens, when they want a little extra privacy, would address each other in Valerian.

Yeah, that's what I have been finding really interesting because, you know, Rhaenyra and Daemon speak to each other in Valyrian on Dragonstone in that interaction. And yeah, it's just been really interesting to see, you know, and it's super helpful when you're bilingual, right? Because you have like this whole extra bonus language that other people who are in on it can follow along with. But yeah, it's just been, I don't know, I think it's a fascinating device. I'm curious to see how it is used throughout the season. Yeah.

One thing we should mention, the Valerians, House Valerian is also of Valerian lineage. And they mentioned, you know, Corlys mentioned...

I rose this house up by the... By my own bootstraps. By my own labors, the sweat of my brow. And he mentions not being dragon riders. I think that's important. When King Viserys talked about the dragon lords as he was giving that little history lesson to Alicent. So Old Valyria was an oligarchy. So no high king or anything like that. But it was ruled essentially by the richest, most powerful families. And the richest, most powerful families had dragons. So...

what we can kind of impute from this is that House Valerian was kind of like a lower class character.

family working class clearly like not bonded with dragons not close with magic and probably feeling a little frustrated by their position in old valeria which is probably why they came to driftmark in the first place okay that's good to know one thing i wanted to mention is just like renera obviously like devastating blow you find out your dad's dating your friend but like

What a fucking walk off home run for her at the end of this episode. She goes there. Yes, she goes against orders and was not like OK to do this, but basically solves the entire fucking problem. Zero bloodshed. Yes. Yes, she does. What a mark on her resume as she is trying to build support to be the queen of the realm. Like that is a great look for Rhaenyra.

Well, and she doesn't even have to be threatening, you know? Like, all she really has to do is show up and call bullshit. And Damon's like, okay, you can have it back. Which I thought was super interesting. And I loved that scene, you know, when she comes in to talk to her dad and he's pissed and she's wearing this, like, super badass Dragon Rider outfit. It was just like, fuck, yes, let's go. Oh, the Dragon Rider. Targaryen black, baby. It looked so good. Action black, ready to get into it.

Well, should we do our death count? Let's do our death count. Kind of light. Yeah. No, not... No, there was one named character, but it was an off-screen death, which is, you know, pretty chill. Right. So, RIP to Sir Ryman Redwine, who passed away again after a long illness.

Tough stuff for him. And I think that is the only official death that we can count other than a lot of all the crucified people on Crab Beach. Well, and I don't know if we want like a vermin count, but we also got our crabs and maggots this time around, which is just a fun thing to note, I guess. Yeah. R.I.P. to the tip of King Viserys's finger.

And RIP to the friendship of Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra. That's true. That is gone. That's a real legit death. Yeah, that's for sure.

Up next, we have a wonderful conversation with Emily Carey, who plays our younger Alison Hightower. Yeah, I'm super excited about this one, not just because I actually got to talk to Emily also, but because Emily brings a lot of really interesting insights into not only her process, but also her own career. Like, she's just a really smart, fun young lady, and it's really fun to talk to her. Let's take a listen. ♪

Everybody, we are super stoked because in the House of the Dragon podcast virtual studio, we have the very talented Emily Carey. You may know Emily as young Diana in Wonder Woman. She also played young Lara Croft in the Tomb Raider reboot. But now, of course, you know her as young Alison Hightower in the HBO original House of the Dragon. Emily, welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be doing another younger version of this is probably the coolest one yet. I can't lie. It takes top spot. I just apparently look like a whole lot of people, which has worked out great for me. So I'm not complaining. But thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Yeah, I think you can call that a win. We're very glad to have you. So how would you describe your character, Alison Hightower?

There's so much to her, and I think I would describe her differently in every episode that I play her in, just because she changes massively throughout circumstance, through where people push her, points that people push her to. But when we first meet her, she is a people pleaser. She's very anxious. She's a rule follower. To play as an actor, something that I pulled on a lot was duty versus heart, which

For her, that's super important as to she's very dutiful and

She has a very clear sense of right and wrong. And when feelings come into that, she doesn't quite know how to process and react and respond. She's very acutely aware of the world that she lives in. She knows the Game of Thrones very, very well. She knows how these men play, but I don't think she ever expects to be one of their playing pieces. This just also comes from her being Rhaenyra's best friend, of course, Rhaenyra Targaryen. Besties, besties.

To begin with, as we all know, it might not stay that way forever and ever and ever, but they're incredibly close and they're always sort of put together. They grew up together. And so there's always this strange sort of power dynamic that they can't avoid. And Rhaenyra is always that one peg up. And so Alyssa just learns to observe. She's a keen observer. And I think that's all I can say for now. But as I said, her character arc sort of pushes her personality to change slightly as the series progresses.

You mentioned Allison and Rhaenyra being besties. How would you describe their relationship entering into episode two? Entering into episode two.

I think Alison is starting to become more aware of the implications behind her meetings with Viserys. I still don't think she truly knows where it's going. And if she does, she doesn't want to believe it, you know? And so there's a slight disconnect. And we kind of played around with the ambiguity of how much she knows. Because she's, as I said, she's so aware when it comes to everyone else and everything else. But when it comes to herself, that's where there's like a slight disconnect. She's kind of got this guilt thing.

floating around whenever she speaks to Rhaenyra. This loss of Rhaenyra's mother has brought them a lot closer together. I believe it's in episode two, we have this beautiful scene in the sept

where Millie and I, we actually reshot that, I think, just because there was so much to it. And beautiful writing from Ryan, of course. There's this shared trauma suddenly between them, which is kind of where we find the girls. You don't see much of them before this trauma happens. And I think there's this emotional vulnerability that they share with one another that you just don't see them have with anyone else in the show.

throughout the entirety of the series. There's just something bubbling under the surface between these two girls or these two women eventually that they just don't have with anyone else. Yeah, that was something that I found really striking in the first couple episodes of this series because...

You know, I think it reminds me a lot of like that teenage relationship that a lot of girls have with each other that are almost like dating because they're just that emotionally intimate. I thought you and Millie both captured that really beautifully. Thank you so much. It's something that we talked about a lot. I mean, as a queer woman, I certainly read certain queer undertones that I don't know whether Ryan Condal was thinking about when he wrote it. But, you know, I picked up on it. Cool, cool. I think...

The friends you have as a young girl, especially at 14 of an age, your girl bestie, your best friend is like a girlfriend. You want to spend all of your time with that person. You think you're going to be best, best friends forever. There's this...

tactile closeness where you're very touchy-feely, especially as women. You know, we're allowed to change in front of each other and we hug and we kiss and we hold in ways that boys, I guess, don't, which we need to change, by the way. It's not a stereotype that I enjoy, but unfortunately it does exist. But there's just this...

pure closeness where it does toe the line between platonic and romantic because I think at 14 you don't really know what platonic and romantic is what the words mean let alone what the feelings mean and so we definitely talked about and we definitely tried to play that in as well so I'm glad that it read absolutely I mean I just think you know at that age feelings are just so big you know how can they not be let alone everything that's going on in this specific story like oh my god

Feelings are so huge, especially when you put them in the context of Westeros, when everyone's told to not feel anything at all. Yeah, Greta and I were speaking before this about the ideal ruler of Westeros. And I was saying, I think a licensed therapist would have the entire kingdom on its knees within an hour. Oh, yeah. There's a lot to unpack. So much. The scene in the Sept is really fascinating in that you mentioned Alicent maybe not knowing quite what

her father Otto's angle is and, you know, what the various things she's asked to do necessarily mean. And in that scene in the Sept, you have these two characters, Alison and Rene, really sharing things. Is Alison in that moment, is she being sincere in this kind of like bid to reach out and share some of her personal history? Or is there also some element of Otto's kind of intelligence gathering mission in that? I think when I was playing it, it

it was 100% sincere. But I can also see how it would read that there is some scheming going on. But I never brought that in. I never played that intentionally. If that's how it came out, then I guess that's how it came out. I tend to black out when we go for takes. I'm never conscious. It's always completely my character's headspace. I'm not aware of what I'm thinking if that makes

sense. It's just a completely different thought process. It's just how my brain works. I work in a very immersive manner. So maybe that did come in. I just wasn't aware of it. I think Alison's faith is so important to her. We have this whole thing about

where is Alan's mum? Who is she? Who was she? Where did she go? It's not written in the book. It's not written in the script. And so I mentioned there's a comic on I journaled as my character just to get some more in-depth insight because I think there's so much going on in her brain. It's impossible to think about and to process unless I put it on paper in front of me. And one thing I got to write about was what happened to her mother and something that we settled on as a group, group being...

Miguel, Ryan, Rhys, and I was that her mother was the religious one and that faith is something that Alicent carries because of this connection with her mother, which is why I think that scene is so important and so heavy to show that side of Alicent that I feel like people maybe aren't expecting to see. And her faith is definitely something that Olivia plays around with a lot more than I do, but I think that scene is a nice grounding set up for that sort of theme. I think she just wants...

Rhaenyra to feel safe in a world where she is never truly feeling emotionally safe. And the only way that Alyson knows how to communicate that is through her faith. She's like, hey, this is how I connect with my mum. I know you think it's bullshit, but like, this is what I do and I would love and appreciate if you would try it. And I say the line, if not for me, then for them. And I signal to the gods because...

for me, for Alison, that is it for her. Whereas Rhaenyra doesn't quite get that. And I think Rhaenyra does do it for Alison. I don't think she does it for the gods, you know? She does it to sort of humour her friend. And I'm sure Millie would be able to go a little bit more in depth with that. But she does it to humour her friend, I think,

And then finds this deeper emotional connection that maybe she thought it's the environment of it. I mean, personally, I'm not religious. And even though we were on a volume stage and it was all LED screens, just having that amount of candles in front of us and what we were talking about within the scene, I felt emotional as me away from the character, which was an interesting thing that I didn't expect to come out in a similar way that Rhaenyra, I don't think, expected to get as emotional as she did.

Yeah, it's an emotional scene. I think I could see that she's doing it to humor her friend, but also that she doesn't have any other options, so why not try it, you know? Yeah, for sure. So can you talk a little bit more about journaling? I think that's just such a fascinating way to sort of like connect some dots when it comes to what is and isn't in the original text or even the script that you're working with.

I mean, I've journaled as Emily since I was a kid. I have a very busy brain. I'm a mentally ill queen. And so something that I do to process the crazy things that go on in my head is to put them on paper. And it gives me a deeper understanding of my brain. And so I thought, hey, why not do that for the characters I play? Surely it would work in the same way that I get a deeper understanding of their brains as well.

It was especially useful on this job, though, in particular, because it was such a long shoot over such a long period of time. And we had such a long rehearsal period even before that, that it was like I was so scared that I was going to do something in rehearsals and then get on set and be completely clueless because it'd been seven months since we'd done that in the rehearsal room and be like, what am I doing? What's going on? I can't remember what I did.

And that did happen a few times because you feel like you're missing a spark that you had in a rehearsal room because it was so raw. And then I'd open my journal and I'd be like, hey, this is firsthand footage

exactly how I was feeling in that moment as my character. And I'd sort of recite it like a monologue and it would get me exactly in the right headspace. As I said, I work very emotionally and very immersively. So it would get me exactly in the right place and the right, what's the word? Like the right spiritual plane, I guess, that I needed to be in to do a scene. But I think it's fascinating. I think...

what it is, is that no matter whether you're the lead of something and you're in every single scene in the show or the film, you never see 24/7 of that person's life, of that character's life. There's always bits you don't see, especially in an ensemble show like this, where everyone sort of dips in and out of being in the forefront. Like all the in-between bits, all the scenes

Like, what is Alison thinking when she's walking from Otto's office to go and put this dress on? What is she feeling when she's putting the dress on and that walk and waiting outside the door before she goes in there? I mean, that's just one select moment. That's maybe an hour. That's maybe two hours.

And there's so much of that throughout the entirety of the series. So it gave me so much context, even though I am bullshitting and making stuff up. I got Ryan to read it and he was like, hey, I like this. I'm like, great, let's do a spinoff show. Let's make it happen. Yeah.

Good for you. I mean, why not? Why not? Yeah, no, it was worth a shot. You got to try. If Ryan Condal says he likes my writing, that's one thing. But I mean, yeah, it's just it's a really useful tool for me, at least. I think especially on this show, I noticed every actor works in a completely different way. And I knew that before. But coming on a show like this where you have legends, you know, are so confident in the way they work.

and know exactly what methods work for them. I think it's fascinating. It's like a workshop masterclass kind of thing. So this is what works for me, I guess, whereas everyone else sort of works completely differently. Well, I think it's really cool too, because it signifies the idea that like, ideally, we all at least feel like the main character in our own stories, you know? So I feel like you're really enacting that with the journaling in a way that makes total sense. I love that. You mentioned the anxiety that Alicent is feeling, and we see that

the way she tears at her nails, something that's really kind of shocking to her father, Otto. How do you relate to Alison's anxiety? I mean, it's diagnosed. That's how I relate, you know? It's very present in my life. As a mentally ill queen, tell us about it. Mentally ill queen. I have never played a character this anxious before. I've done a job where I had to play one or two panic attacks, which were interesting because they felt so out of context.

I feel like if this was set in a modern day world, in a modern day audience, I feel like Alison's anxiety storyline would be projected and played a lot more. But because of the world and the context, she has to internalize it. And the only way that sort of seeps out and escapes is...

is through that cuticle biting and that picking. It's funnily enough, a habit that I have myself. And throughout the entire job, I had everyone looking at my hands going, oh, that's so gross. Look at that. I'm like, yeah, oh, God would never do that. Oh, could never be me. Could never be me. And by the end, I've stopped doing it now because I had so many people telling me how awful it was.

But I process emotions in a very similar way that Alison does in the sense of we both try to internalize things, but they always seep out. It always escapes somewhere. And the more you suppress things, the worse it gets. People always ask me, what did you learn from this role? That's it. That's exactly it, is to suppress less the more you feel. I think it's a common theme, funnily enough, between the Hightowers. Whenever there's a scene where Otto and Alison should be saying how much they love each other...

It's an argument, you know? It just turns into fueling the fire. But I think it's no coincidence that their sigil has a little flame on it. I think they're fiery people. So you talked about this a little bit already, but I would love to talk a little more about Alison's relationship both with Viserys and with her dad because I think episode two, and Jason and I talked about this when we recapped the episode, it captures such a nuanced relationship

look at, like, a couple of pretty problematic relationships. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Viserys is a lot older. Obviously, he's in this huge position of power. It seems still, though, that, like, Alicent and Viserys are able to relate to each other around their grief in, like, a really emotionally powerful way. But you still also get the complexity that, you know, Alicent is picking at her cuticles. She's obviously not super comfortable in this role. It's something her dad told her she kind of had to do. How...

How did you and maybe especially Patti kind of figure out how to portray that without just making it seem gross? You know what I mean? I mean, I'll be honest. I was still 17 when I joined this job. I was so scared when I read the script. I was like, I'm going to be working with a fully grown man.

And then I step on set and Paddy and I bonded over Drag Race. He's a drag fan. One of the best conversations I ever had was I was asking Millie if she watched Drag Race. Again, trying to bond with people. And I heard from across the room, Paddy go, you watch Drag Race? I was like, huh? So that was where the initial bond came from off set. But on screen, I think it's such a delicate conversation.

relationship that we're dealing with here, they have this sort of unlikely friendship almost. There's an undertone in there that they could be good pals if it wasn't for this weird circumstance in that I'm sort of seeing my best friend's dad behind her back and he's like, doesn't want to marry a child. It's like a whole weird thing. And it was very difficult to try and contextualize because obviously as an actor, like

Working in Westeros is a weird thing, first of all. And then, I don't know how to word it. Trying to contextualize things and feel how they would, what the modern day equivalent would be, if that makes sense. So things like dragons, we had conversations in rehearsals about how one would interact with dragons. So for example, Alison sees them as kind of like big dogs. She's a bit scared of them, how a toddler would be scared of a big dog.

That's how Alicent approaches the dragon. And so trying to contextualize a situation like this is weird because if I said, oh yeah, I'm going to go, you know, have a little conversation, a little meet up with your dad in his bedroom, it's a bit strange. But in this world, it's slightly less weird.

strange, if that makes sense. Just as a modern day viewer and a modern day reader of the script, it feels a lot more uncomfortable than it is. I think also it's in the book that Alison used to read to the old king. So the initial meetups are less strange. It's just so much of it is what Alison feels the intention behind the meeting is. And again, I think I wanted to leave it ambiguous. I want the audience to be almost as confused as she is.

in like, I hope people take away from it. Does she want to be here? Like, is this for her? Is this for her dad? Who is this for? Because as an actor, I kept saying to Miguel, I have no idea what I'm thinking. And he'd be like, okay, go with it. I'm like, no, give me something. I don't know. Tell me how to feel. And he's like, no, play on this. Play on the unknown and the fear of the unknown. Hmm.

Because that's exactly what Alicent is feeling. She doesn't know what's happening. It's the fear of the unknown. The scene with the dragon, when the dragon breaks on the floor, there's this beautiful shot where it almost looks like we're holding hands because I pick up the dragon and go to give it back to him. And it's like, this feels okay. And then she remembers what's happening and kind of the insinuation between just a touch of hands.

The big question within the show is, do you serve yourself or do you serve the realm? And Alison doesn't know yet. She's 14. She's still figuring it out. She's been thrown into this position that she doesn't really understand fully yet. Part

Part of it is she's doing what she's told, but she's also trying to take away from it like, hey, maybe this could be nice. Maybe this could be good. The thing is with Allison and Viserys, we always say they love each other a lot, but they're never in love throughout the series. There's a bond. There's a shared trauma, not in the same way that Allison sees Rhaenyra in that shared trauma, but...

In a weird way, and don't take this the wrong way, she kind of recognizes how her dad reacted to her own mother's death and how Viserys reacts, which is why she comes at it with such softness, I guess. Yeah.

And with such understanding and empathy, I'm not saying she sees him like a dad. That's toeing the line. That's weird. But she recognizes the emotions that he's feeling because we have to remember in Westeros, especially men showing emotion is not a common thing for a young girl to see.

where she knows what she's doing with him. It's kind of like a bomb. It's fragile, not in the sense of glass, like it could shatter, but fragile in the sense that it could blow up, which is what she would have, I'm assuming, again, would have, I've made this whole backstory up. I'm assuming that's what she would have had with her dad. I don't think Otto is the kind of guy to break down in tears necessarily, especially not in front of his daughter. And so that's where the cautiousness comes, the softness comes from when Alison sort of approaches Viserys.

We mentioned up top the versions of younger characters that you've played over the course of your career thus far, and here you are doing it again in House of the Dragon. Is there a trick at this point? Do you have a certain technique now for finding the younger character? Oh!

Oh, not at all. I'm just relying on my face, you know? My face is doing all the work for me, which is great. With this, it was just very different to any other younger version I've done before. When I found out what this was, and I was like, okay, younger version of Olivia Cooke, I could do that. Maybe I might get this job, you never know. And then I found out it was Game of Thrones. I was like, oh, God, okay, well, there goes my chance. Of course, I'm not going to get it now. Yeah.

And then I booked it the day of my callback, which is so unheard of and so strange. I hadn't even processed that I'd done the audition because usually you have like with a big, big job like this, usually you have like two weeks before you even hear anything. Even if the things that you hear are like, we're still figuring things out. So I hadn't even processed that I'd done the audition. Then I get the call and I'm like, whoa, OK, I booked it. Great. And then they send the scripts through and I was like, OK, great.

great, so which bits are me? And they're like, well, everything we've sent you is you. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, because none of them say young in front of, they just say Alison. And they're like, no, you're playing Alison in these episodes. I was like,

hold on, huh? That's not how this works. Where's my one scene? Come on, guys. This is hold on. And then it was like, hold on. This is 10 months of my life. What is going on? And that was after I'd signed the contract. So I was like, you know, just thrown in there like this is crazy. And when I say it was a whirlwind, like I mean it. I went from thinking I'd have, you know, one day on set of this really cool job to

to signing the contract, getting my scripts through and being like, hey, this is my life now, which was very, very scary. But I had so much creative freedom with this role. It's in a sense like we're playing two completely different characters. I mean, me and Olivia didn't talk at all about the character or the job in the same way that Emma and Millie didn't. We were kind of advised not to because it is literally like we're playing characters.

completely different people. 10 years is a really long time, you know? Yeah. You're seeing them go from practically children into grown women. There's a lot of growing up to do. And so, yeah, they treat it as like different characters. So it didn't feel like I was playing a younger version in a way that I'm so used to at this point. Maybe one day I will be the main one and there will be three younger versions of me. Who knows? Yeah.

Yes, fingers crossed for you. I love that for sure. I imagine it's got to be really interesting and just so different to have a character now with like such a significant emotional trajectory.

Oh, for sure. This is the most in-depth I've ever gotten any character I've ever played. And I'm so privileged and grateful. Like before we even got into the rehearsal room, I was invited in to have a few character meetings with Ryan and Miguel. And I was like, so who else is coming? And they're like, no, no, no, it's one on one. We're just talking about you. We're talking about Alison and we're talking about you and how you work as an actor. And I was like, I've never had this before in my life. This is incredibly exciting.

it felt like a workshop. And then when we got to rehearsals, it felt like, um, felt like a play rehearsal. It felt like theater because we, Miguel, the way he works, which I think is incredible. Um,

he keeps everyone in the room at all times. So even when they're doing scenes and rehearsing scenes that you're not in, you're sort of sat in a circle surrounding them. So you just get to take it all in. And it is literally like a masterclass workshop kind of vibe. It's incredible. But this for me was such a huge career step, not just literally, but I feel like I've grown so much as an actor, just from the amount of time I got to spend with Alicent.

I learned so much about my methods. As I said early on in this, like every actor works in a different way. And you're seeing, I'm working with these legends who are so confident in their methods and they know exactly what they're doing because they just know how they function as an actor. I think actors as creatives, you never stop learning. It's physically impossible. And that's why I love my job because I know that there's always something new and there's always something to learn, whether it's about yourself or about the industry or about a story or a character.

I'm just such a curious creative and this is the perfect job for me. But as I said, these people are so confident in what they're doing. And I feel like I'm not at that level. I'm nowhere near that level, but I feel so much more comfortable as a human being and as an actor than I did before this. I feel like I found my feet, you know? Well, Emily Carey, the mentally ill queen, the first of her name. Thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Wow, that was a really cool and generous interview. What a thoughtful actress to get to hear about her process. And it's fascinating to watch young Allison because I think you see that she's occupying so much gray area and to get to talk to Emily about what it was like to kind of not know what her character was up to, but that that was sort of the point. It was just super interesting. Yeah, and the journaling part of her process is...

such an interesting and cool and fun and probably very useful method. That would be really cool to see, to read that journal and see, you know, what she came up with, the kind of backstory of Alison that seemed like it was really fruitful stuff. Yeah, that would be really fun. Also, picturing Patti Considine as like a Drag Race fan is extremely delightful. That makes me so happy. I absolutely love that. Great. Great.

All right, that's it for this episode. Don't forget to join us again next Sunday night when we'll be discussing House of the Dragon, episode three. Yes, and next week, we are also going to be talking with Millie Alcock, who plays our younger Rhaenyra Targaryen. Hopefully, we will finally get some insight into what dragons smell like, among many other things.

And of course, we want to hear from you. Don't forget to leave a rating and review on your podcast player of choice and find us on the Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon social media handles. You can find me on Twitter at NETW3RK. And you can find me at Greta M. Johnson on both Twitter and Instagram. The official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon, is produced by HBO Max in collaboration with iHeartRadio. The podcast is hosted by Jason Concepcion. And Greta Johnson.

Our executive producer is Molly Socha. Our supervising producer is Nakia Swinton. Our lead sound engineer is Matt Stillo. This episode was edited by Sierra Spreen. Our producer is Jason Concepcion in association with Crooked Media. Special thanks to Michael Gluckstadt, Allison Cohen, Kenya Reyes, and Becky Rowe from the HBO podcast team. And Ashley Morton, Dana Froome, and Liz Keating at HBO Creative Marketing.