Debt Freedom Isn’t Fast—It’s Focused
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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we talk about your life and your money. It's a call where you are the star. And we take your live calls. You can call in at 888-825-5225. That's the number to get involved. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to you is Dr. John Deloney. Wow. What's up with that? Next to me. Next to you. I'm next to you. I'm next to you.

You got the doctor on your name. I'm sitting next to you. That's right. All right. Let's get it started. We got Lee in Nashville, Tennessee. What's going on, Lee? Hey there. Oh, what's not going on? Uh-oh.

Yeah, yeah. We're in a bit of a crisis. I'm going to try to keep it all together. We're not really in a crisis. We're actually in recovery from a crisis. So we recently moved back near my hometown because my husband of 20 years was, well, he took a plea deal, but he was essentially convicted of a crime that will put him in prison for at least 10 years there. Wow. Oh, man. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. Holy smokes. How are you feeling? I mean, I'm better than I was. I've had a year to process it. But there was so much to process that I'll probably be processing for a decade. Do you all have little ones? We have four kids. The oldest is a junior in college. And then I have the younger three still at home with me. My youngest of those three, it's 15, 11 and nine.

Wow. So a plea deal on 10 years, that means he was into some not good stuff, huh? Yeah, it was a sex crime. Yeah, okay. God, dude, I'm so sorry.

Yeah, thank you. You know, spiritually, we're doing very well. We have a great church here, good support system. You know, he had lived for himself for about 20 years, and for the last year, I mean, something like this will really break you when you realize it hits you between the eyes what you've been doing to yourself and your family. And he's been living for Christ for a year, so spiritually, we have that solace. But it doesn't really...

Now I'm here, I'm boots on the ground trying to figure this all out and I've been a stay-at-home mom for 15 years. Are you still together? No, we're divorcing. Let's put it this way, it's...

It's amicable in the sense that it's with a lot of peace. Like we had a year to kind of work through the peace and forgiveness and watching him walk, if that makes sense. Sure, yeah. But there's the spiritual connection, there's the resolution of the quartile, but that light bill keeps coming and that water bill keeps coming, right? And that rent keeps coming. Yes.

Correct. And as you know, we I mean, he was an excellent provider. He had a very high paying job, actually, and some side jobs. And we you know, we were kind of we're 40 and we were kind of at the crest of about to push that snowball all the way down and really start building some serious wealth and had a kind of a plan to pay our house off in the next three to two to three years at that point, you know, and.

It's just a lot. But by the time we had hit January 1st, we had spent like $150,000 on criminal defense and bond and civil attorneys, divorce attorneys. There's an attorney for everything. So how bad is it right now? Who do you owe? It's not...

It's not bad right now. I have about $7,000 in credit card debt, but I have enough in the bank to cover that. I have about $50,000 left from the sale of our home. And because of the circumstances and how much we had to spend that didn't benefit community property in the divorce, I'm getting his 50% as well. So I'm leaving with everything we had left. And what does that amount to? Can you tell us a little of that?

Yeah, it's $260,000 in our 401k. Okay. $75,000 in a pension through a former employer. Okay. $10,000 through another employer in like a basically a 401k through the military. Okay. Because that's the other thing. We were two years from military retirement. Yeah. Okay. Hey, Lee, can I encourage you to do one thing that's going to be really, really hard?

Yeah. It's going to be probably the toughest thing existentially or spiritually that you're going to have to do for the next six months to a year to maybe two years and beyond. Okay. In this short phone call, you've mentioned all of the things that were about to happen or that were going to happen. And they're not going to happen. And they're not going to happen. And every second you spend thinking about what almost happened or what could have happened is energy wasted.

Yeah, that's pretty much all day long. I mean, the grief is crushing. Yeah, yeah. It's overwhelming. And it will be that way. And here's the crummiest, harshest thing I'm going to say probably today on this show.

The water bill doesn't care. No. Right? And so this is going to be one of those things you're going to wake up in two and a half years and wonder how you did it, and you're just going to have to go get it done. Right? Yeah, and yes, and that's been the hard part right now. So when I moved, I lived with parents for a while. They really did not have room for us. Yeah.

And they are not in a good school system. My kids have always been in private school or homeschooled. So knowing I needed to utilize the public school system moving forward, I moved to an area that has a really good public school system. And my parents helped me. So I'm renting a house that has plenty of room. And it's a great location. It's wonderful for me and the kids. It's right by our school. Can you afford it? I can't afford it on my own, but my parents are willing to pay half their rent pretty much indefinitely.

Is that okay with you? Does that come with strings? No, it does not come with strings. I will say I have... It would with...

my in-laws but it doesn't with my parents they will do anything they can to help us and i'm willing i would love to eventually be completely i know i know i know you are you are willing you're out at sea and it's you gotta grab that uh life raft and i'm so what a what a blessing that they're willing to step up we won't we won't starve you know they're they're nearby sure we i mean i'm not

I don't worry about it in the sense that I know it's all going to work and end up on the streets or something, but I'm paralyzed in terms of what to do next. Um, pay off all the debt and lose the cash. I obviously have been kind of looking around at jobs, but I'm, I'm a little bit paralyzed with that. I'm thinking about maybe the school system because most of my experiences with teaching and, um, that's great. Listen, listen, schedule apply today.

The dreams you had about the homeschool and the private school, there's a period to the end of that sentence. It's over. It is. It's over. The dream of the goat farm and the five acres and the chickens, that's over, right? Yep. For now. For now.

What we're going to do right now is we're going to survive. So by the end of today, you're calling the show on a Tuesday. By the end of Wednesday, I want you to have applied to every open teaching position in your local district. And if your district's like every other district in America, they're desperate for teachers. Is it going to be ideal? Nope. Is it going to be the best situation for you in the dreams you had? Nope. Are you going to be an amazing teacher with empathy and compassion for those kids? Absolutely. Is it going to take care of you and give you and your family insurance? Yes.

Yeah, because we haven't lost our insurance yet, but the divorce will go through in the next couple of months and I'll lose my insurance immediately. And then the kids will lose their insurance whenever the military kicks it out. So get on it today. Like the only way to get through the paralysis is to take a step. Okay. You get what I'm saying? Yes, I do. I feel a little bit, I mean, I haven't made a resume and it's got all these gaps. I don't even know where to start on that. How do I explain all of that?

Well, we'll give you we're going to give you a bunch of gifts before we get off the line with you. We're going to give you Paycheck to Purpose. That's Ken's book. We're going to give you Proximity Principle. That's Ken's book. We're going to give you Find the Work You're Wired to Do with the Assessment Inside. All that's going to walk you through the career side of this. There's a resume guide on online. So go to RamseySolutions.com and put in the search thing, the resume builder, and it will walk you through a template on how to do that. And hey, call us back. Call us back if you need us. We're here. It's the same number. We'll be here to help you.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly right. These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually...

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Back to the phone lines. We go where Jerry is in Billings, Montana. Hey, Jerry, how can we help? I need some help passing on my portfolio.

Passing it on? Okay. Tell us more. Yeah, passing it on to my, well, we have one child. Okay. And I've been married for 42 years. Okay. And I've been working in mining for 43 years. Okay. And I made a lot of mistakes whenever I was young and got myself really, really upside down in debt. Uh-huh.

And I put all my money into metals and real estate. Okay. How'd the real estate do? Really good. Good. In Montana, it was really good. Hey. Yeah. Out of that, my...

My child is moving away. She's moving out of state and she has no interest in what I built or what my wife and I built because I couldn't have built this without my wife. Talking about the real estate stuff.

Everything. Everything. The metals and on and on and on. I couldn't have built this without my wife's support. When you say she has no interest, what does that mean? Does it mean that she doesn't want to manage properties and manage a metals portfolio? No. No, she doesn't. And she is a millennial.

And I'm not beating up on millennials, but she's dialed in to, hey, if we're going to go off and we're going to grow corn or whatever out in the Midwest. And my question is,

I've worked for four decades to build this. And I went way, way, way down. And at one time I was like $85,000 in unsecured debt. And I climbed out of that without filing bankruptcy. I got you. So you feel a personal connection to this. Like this is not just money you built. Your whole story is like wrapped up into this.

Right. I get it. I've worked hard for this, and she's showing no real interest. But let's be fair. Not to be unfair, but her husband comes from a different lineage. Yeah, but Jerry, it's not even about that. You're just two different people. Yeah, it's not an indictment of what you've done. You did a great job, man. Here's the question.

what do I do with it? Because I'm not going to give it to somebody that doesn't appreciate it. I think, well, I think you let, let's talk about it because I, on the one hand, I hear what you're saying. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I 100% understand what you're saying. Um, and on the other hand, I think there's a part of this where she's not Jerry. She's who she is. And so she's going to have different interests. Her story is going to be different. The things that are, um, uh,

the ways that she wants to divest her energies are different from you. Now, I do agree with you that if you have the sense that she's not going to manage money in general well, or if she's got some, you know, proclivity to go off the rails or something, that's something, that's a totally different conversation. But if you say, hey, I'm leaving you, you know, when I beam up to heaven, I'm leaving you my portfolio and...

And the thought is you'll manage it and you will be a good steward of it. She might not keep it in precious metals. She might decide to roll it over into mutual funds and do it that way. But if she's being a good steward of it, I think that's a green checkmark. Same thing with the properties. If you leave her the properties and if maybe there's some –

really important piece of land. I don't know that you're like, Hey, no matter what, just don't sell this piece. I'd like this to be generational. Maybe you make that stipulation, but to assume that she wants to be a real estate mogul, uh, over, you know, this huge, I don't know how much it is. We didn't even talk about how much that's a little bit unfair. John, am I, am I off? Yeah. What are we missing Jerry? Uh,

Well, we're missing this. Okay. I've worked very, very hard to build this, to pass on. And because I'm in my golden years, she's moving away. She's moving out of state about 1,200 miles away. Okay.

Okay, too bad, so sad. I'm out of here. Hold on. I don't think that's fair, Jerry. Hang on. Hang on just a second. Okay. I've helped take care of my parents, and I've helped take care of my wife's parents, and I didn't think it was really unreasonable to say, hey, look –

You bet, Dad. We can watch the dogs for the weekend while you guys go on your hot air blunt. That is not an option. I don't have a 401k. How much do you have in your total, in all portfolio, how much are you worth?

Multiple seven figures. Tell us. 10 million, 20 million. Yeah, that could be a lot of things. About 3.6. Okay, 3.6 million. Okay, first off, I want to say good job. Great. Because the fact that you've told us a couple of different times I did this, and I think that no one's telling you, no one in your life is saying, hey, really great job.

And so I want to tell you, that's a really great job. It's not easy to fight back and acquire what you've acquired and amass what you've amassed. So really, really great job. I'm proud of you for that. Now. Yeah. Here's the second thing. You know what you raised? Exactly what you wanted to, which is a tough, smart, bullheaded daughter, just like her old man with her own thoughts and her own. I'm going to do it my way.

And so it sounds like you're grieving the fact that she's not living by you anymore. Is that fair? No. No? No, no, that's not fair. What I'm grieving is the fact that she's not appreciating what I'm passing on. Show us, tell, Jerry, explain to us what she's done that's unappreciative because we're missing that piece. Tell us, give us a picture of what that looks like. The lack of, the lack of concern for her

The properties that she's been taking care of. Okay. And I gave her a little bit of responsibilities. I've given her cars. I've given her real estate. I've given her all kinds of stuff. She's not taking care of it? It's all gone by the wayside. Did she ask for any of this stuff? No. Okay. It's a little bit of a different direction, but let me see if this is a way I can...

Put this on the table that we can both digest it. My dad was a policeman. He was a homicide detective. And then he was a SWAT hostage negotiator. And then he quit all of that to be a minister. And then he became a policeman again years, years later. And then he became a college professor and he just retired. We always talked about when I was a kid about me going into law enforcement and I wanted to get into the FBI and I wanted to be a hostage. I want to do all that stuff. And instead I went into education.

But what I took with me from my dad is that when there's hurting people, you show up. And I learned how to talk to people in hard situations and, and, and. So I didn't get into, quote unquote, the family business, but I took his lessons and his skills that he, I watched him teach me and I put them on the table.

I for some reason, it sounds like you gave her all this stuff that she never asked for and you're holding her accountable for it. And now you're going to take three and a half million dollars instead of cashing out and making sure you have a safe, good retirement and leaving the rest to your only daughter. It's almost like you're punishing her for not loving the same things you love or not wanting the same things you wanted in your life.

I want. That's a huge thing. I want a secure future, and I want her to have the secure future. And it appears to me that she is completely oblivious. Nobody, nobody, unless they can do this, nobody has any idea what it's like to work in an underground mine.

And that's what I've done for the last 43 years. Right, but she's not going to work in an underground mine. And she doesn't need to. All she needs to be is a good steward of what you give her. And she doesn't have to do it in the exact same ways. She doesn't have to keep it in gold and silver and precious metals. She doesn't even necessarily have to keep the real estate if she's not a great... She might not just be a great... Everybody

Everybody's not a great landlord. Everybody's not a great real estate manager. But if she can transfer that wealth into the things that she is good at. Into selling eggs or whatever. It's all in the same family. That's right. Yeah. If she's a person who lacks character, that's one thing. That's one thing. I don't hear that. I don't either. I hear a dad who's sad that she's not going into the family business. Man, you got to make peace with that. Hey,

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You're listening to The Ramsey Show. All right. So many out there, so many of you guys out there are doing a great job of sharing the show. You're taking it to the streets, letting everybody know how to win with money. And we thank you for that. We tell you all the time, hey, share the show. And you guys have been doing that. But

Starting now in June, we're going to make that even easier for you because what happens is like sometimes people will go and they'll just see like Dave Ramsey and his element and they're like, oh man, this is a lot right now. Or they'll see me or John kind of like wilding out about a certain topic. So what if we could send them the perfectly curated

playlist just to get them on the on-ramp so that they're seeing the right things first. So they're just like not hitting it in the middle of the movie, right? So this playlist is filled with classic Ramsey clips, like what the baby steps are, how to pay off debt with the debt snowball method, how to build an emergency fund and all that good stuff. So it'll kind of like track them through in order, which is good. So if you're interested in that, there's a way to share it. All you have to do is click the link at the top of the show notes.

to open the Ramsey 101 playlist. Okay, so that's what you're looking for. Ramsey 101 playlist. You could text it, DM it, send it out in the group chat, you know, with a little, hey, I thought you could use this. Just don't sound like condescending or anything like that. Or if you're listening on radio, you can also find that playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel, which is great. So think about it right now. Take a moment and think about one person that you're going to share this list with. John, who are you sharing it with? I will share...

I'm going to keep that a secret because it's a family member. They need all in. It's on a need to know basis. Okay. So one share, one step, and this could change one person's life forever. So forever. Forever. All right. There you go. Let's go to Kim, who's in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Hey, Kim, what's up?

Hi, I just wanted to get some advice on what I should do with the money that I'm going to receive from the sale of my house. So I had lost my husband 20 years ago and I was a stay-at-home mom at the time and we

His life insurance policy had expired about two weeks before he died. Oh, jeez. And he died unexpectedly. I'm sorry. Thank you. Anyway, I just feel like I spent 20 years raising the kids and really spent everything I was able to make. I went back, became a teacher. I originally had an accounting degree. I knew that I really couldn't...

spend that time working in that field just because it was just so much of my time was spent at work. And so I went back and became a teacher, and so I've been a teacher since 2008. I love what I do. I'm a special education teacher. You know, I don't make the greatest amount of money, but the only

The only thing I guess I did right was the fact that I'm not in debt. Good. My car, it's old, but it's paid for. Good. And I have about $450,000 that I should walk away with when I sell the house I'm in. Wow. What's causing you to sell the house? Is it just a life change? You need the money? What's up with that? Well, I don't have the... I've obviously not been able to have the...

like a retirement plan at all in the last 20 years. So when you were teaching, you didn't put any aside? Yeah, like in the teacher retirement system? Usually you're required to put something aside.

I would always have to take it out and use it. And so right now I'm just I have like twenty thousand in a in like I work. I don't work in a public school. I work in a charter school. So I don't get that teacher retirement when I retire. So you have twenty thousand and twenty thousand and four or one K.

Right. And then I have about $4,000 in a Roth IRA. Okay. And then I have about $20,000 in my savings account. Okay. And then other than that, I don't really have anything else. How old are you? I'm 56. Okay. So you're thinking, I'll sell this house and what? Tell me your thoughts and I can kind of help you stay on track. Okay.

Well, I'm thinking buying something cheaper and maybe investing the rest. Or do I rent and invest all of it? I would not do that. Okay, I like how your brain is thinking. So if I were you, what area are you in? Okay, you're in Oklahoma City area. Yeah, if I could, the $450,000, yeah, if I could get something in cash outright for maybe...

300, I might do that and invest the other 150. And then my question would be to you is how much longer do you plan on working? Because that 150 will continue to grow, you know, so will the 20,000 and the Roth IRA. But you've got to continue working and you've got to start doing baby step four because you're in baby step four, but you've got to do it, which is contribute 15% of your gross every single month.

That's going to be the key here for the next 15 years. Yeah. And I was going to start like so my work contributes 7 percent of my income no matter what I do. They contribute 7 percent. That's what we're that's what John and I were talking about earlier. So how much is that? OK, how much is that? It's only like 350 a month. Right. But what's it grown to?

Oh, no, that's the one that's the 20,000. That's the one I was talking about. I've only worked at this particular school for five years. Okay. Okay. So keep doing that and then only ratchet it up to 15%. So they're taking the seven, you do the rest. And honestly, if you can, you let that 7% kind of be gravy and you still do 15% if you can.

OK, because you're going to have a better choice when you do your own Roth IRA and you do your own. You're going to have a better choice of how it's invested. So that's the reason I say that.

Oh, okay. Well, I mean, I'm happy with how it's grown in this particular, however they've invested it at this point. I think it's decent growth. I want to say on average, it's been, you know, 13-ish percent. Okay, that's great. Then you add another eight to it and keep the train rolling. You know, that's what I would do.

I'm just concerned that, you know, is it going to be enough? And because I'm starting so late. And so that's where I'm a little bit – I get tired of making the decisions alone because there's really nobody to bounce that off of. And, you know, I just – I'm concerned that, you know, what happens if I can't work, you know? I mean, I'll work as long as I can because I –

have the ability to do that in the field that I'm in. Let me say this. Can I just, normally if you and I were just like sitting down having nachos, me and you and Jade were just sitting down having nachos talking through this, I would wait longer and build a better rapport with you before I said what I'm about to say. But since we're condensed, can I just throw it out there? Sure. Okay. Exhale. Boom.

So for the last 20 years, you've been doing this on your own, right? Mm-hmm. And you had three young kids at the time when your husband passed away? Yeah, there were one, three, and eight at the time. Okay. So you did what you had to do to survive. Mm-hmm. And I'm going to say this with all the love of my heart, so hear me, okay? Can you say out loud, we're on the same team? We're on the same team. Okay. Math doesn't care. Okay. And so over the last 15 years, 20 years...

You made choices about what kind of shoes they were going to wear, what schools they were going to go to, what camps they were going to go to, what meals y'all had, all that stuff as a single parent. And I'm not going to judge you on that because I wouldn't wish what you experienced on my worst enemy. But the reality is you're 56 and there's nobody else coming for you. Right. But there's hope here. There's tons of hope here. But you're going to have to adjust your lifestyle as though...

You are caring for the 75 year old version of yourself right now. So good. So that means you're going to have to opt out on meals, opt out on vacations. And if you want to go see grandkids, when you, when your children start having babies, they may have to help you get there.

But we got to take care of 75 year old you. How's it going to set up? Let me tell you right now, if you work, you're 56. If you work till you're 69, we're right now, we've said we'll take 150 and invest it, put it with the 20. So now you're at 170. If you can invest 700 a month, I think you said they're already taking out 350. If you can match that, right? So you're doing about 15%.

If you can let that grow, that's going to be $842,000. Okay. So take that as a starting point. I want you to get on that RamseySolutions.com investment calculator. And I want you to play with that number, play with that lump sum amount, because if you can start with a $200,000 lump sum, it'll change everything. Okay. Okay. Very good.

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Every dollar is going to be on there live, right? So they're there to answer all of your important questions about budgeting. So spots are limited. You can sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar. Sign up for free today to change your life. All right. Logan is in Iowa City, Iowa. Hello, Logan. How can we help you today?

- Hey, how's it going guys? Thank you for giving me a chance to get on the phone. I didn't really know I could do this until my dad mentioned it, so I'm grateful. - There you go. - Yeah, I am in a spot where I live far away from home and don't see family or friends often at all. And I make really good money at the job that I'm at. And so that's why I've done it and I've moved away. Home is in Utah. - Okay. - But I'm currently in Iowa.

What are you doing? The number one, what was that? What's the job you're doing? I sell solar panels. Okay, excellent. Going from job to job with a crew? Yeah, so door to door. I manage and help run the sales team here. So I have employees that set appointments for me and I walk into Warm Leads and close deals for solar appointments.

Outstanding. So what's your question, brother? Yeah, so I've been in this job for only a year full time. And just to give you all the facts, I don't mean to boast or anything, but just to give facts so I can get the best perspective on my situation, if that's all right. Yeah, real quick, your phone is making a real fuzzy sound there.

Is that better? Much better. Yeah, thank you. Okay, sorry about that. It's all good. Yeah, so I've made $200,000 this last year, which has been so far the most amount of money I've made in a fiscal year. But I'm just far away from family and friends, which are high value for me to be around. And really the number one pursuit that I want to pursue in life right now is just companionship. So you're trying to see is it worth it?

Yeah, so I'm just trying to understand if it's worth living far away from home if it pulls me away from family and friends. What's your end goal? Well, the end goal in general or with work? All of it. Well, like this. In my 20s, while my friends were starting families and doing more hanging out, I spent more time in libraries studying. But I had an end goal.

And the goal is to build currently financial freedom so that I can be more free. How much cash you have in the bank? I have about 60 grand saved. And do you have any debt? No. You made 200 grand living by yourself. Why do you only have 60 grand in the bank?

Yeah, just investing back into the business. Okay. And so for me, I think the key here is a timeline. I think that's what's going to set you free because you don't have any debt. You're already stacking up cash. You're investing back into your business. That's cool. I

I think what will give you kind of a light at the end of the tunnel is to say, okay, I'm going to do this for four years or I'm going to do this for three years. And once I hit, like make a clear goalpost and a clear end zone. So, you know, when you get there, spike the ball and now you can move on to the other thing that you really love. But right now it feels like it's just kind of an open, you know, it's just an open road and you could probably go forever. And that's, that could mess you up. If you really miss your family, you really miss your friends. Did you have a timeline or is that kind of new information? Yeah.

No, I mean I have a one-year and five-year plan for business, but the struggle is just that I want to pursue relationships, and specifically from Utah. I don't know if you guys know, but it's a very dominant religion there, and I'm part of the LDS faith. And so I want someone, a partner, a life partner who has also grown up in that faith. And so finding a wife or a girl in Iowa is difficult compared to what it would be like in Utah. It is, but it's not.

Like, you can pursue it. I mean, it's just going to be less comfortable, but you can pursue it. There's a local church in Iowa I'm confident of. There's probably multiple local churches there in Iowa. But I love what you said, Jade, about...

I want to have $250,000 in cash in the bank and then I'm going to go back home. Yeah, set the time. And so saying that you're in Iowa and that means you can't get companionship, that's just simply not true. It might be more of a challenge than it would be in Utah. I got to believe there's a dating site specifically for this purpose. I assure you there is. But here's the deal. I think that feels a little bit, I mean, it feels, Logan, like it's kind of the proxy challenge, the real challenge is,

it's not cool to say it if you're a 25 year old young man making money, but I miss my family. Yeah. I miss my buddies or I miss the action. That's all fair to say. Just own it. And maybe you build your business up right now. Maybe you could sell it to somebody for 150 grand and you've got 60, you got 150. I'm gonna take 210 back to in my, in my checking account. I'm going to go home and I'm going to call it. I'm gonna start a new business there. If you can do,

Warm leads. If you can go door to door in Iowa, you can go door to door anywhere. That means you can, you're, you're the person that can make any kind of money anywhere because you're not scared to go door to door. And, and, you know, let me just give you a little bit of hope possibly. I mean, you said you made 200 K last year. I think he's only been doing this two years. I'll tell you, I moved to Nashville from South Florida. I lived in South Florida for my entire adult life. It is my home and it's where all my people are. And when my husband and I picked up and moved here to Nashville, um,

I, let's see, it'll be three years in July and I am just starting to be like,

Okay. Like just starting. I'm in year seven and I'm not even there yet. It's tough. Roots are a very real thing. Like when you put down roots somewhere, it's like a plant. Like in my house, there's tons of plants everywhere. If I replant something and I don't treat the roots right and I just pull it up and I replant it, it freaks out for a while. It drops leaves. It does a whole lot of things because it's trying to adjust to new soil. If I move it from downstairs to upstairs, a new environment, like all of those things, when you had roots down there,

it does something. It shocks your system when you pull that up. And so I think that's just what you're feeling. It's not to say that you can't exist and you can't thrive in this new environment, but you do have to give it time and you have to give yourself time

the, the space to just learn how to grow a new, in a new place. And so hopefully that kind of helps you out a little bit. The good news is with the interwebs and the internets, the way they are, you know, you can FaceTime and you can hop on and see your people and, you know, you're making a lot of money. So hop on a plane and go see him as often as you can. That's what I do, but give it a timeline. And I promise you, you'll, you'll make it through. It's tough. It's not easy. It's not easy. All right.

John, I love a good social question. Oh, great. I do. But where are mine? Do you have your, oh, there it is. All right. From social media, we have Robin. I love a Facebook question because people on Facebook, they are different. Okay. She says, after getting married, how long is too long to wait on getting baby step two started? I think. Before you get married.

after you get married like the day after the wedding i guess not that come on john we got other things to focus on okay the day after the day after the wedding yeah i think as quickly as you can get on the same page about it instantly okay that was an easy one okay let's see what janelle from facebook asks she says i know you aren't supposed to prepay for a funeral but what about cemetery plots it's getting dark

I, I, what is like, is there like a standard Ramsey teaching on cemetery plot? Don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah. Just don't do it. Don't prepay. Um, that is what we say. Honestly, I don't get this question a lot. I would just not prepay. I think that you can get a deal if you prepay and that's why people do it. But my thing is like, I'd rather, I'd rather put it in my will what I want, um,

And then the money is there for everybody to carry out those wishes. Well, because here, like, it sounds like, and again, I'm speaking out of...

my ears here because I don't keep up with this. My grandparents both had plots next to each other. Yeah. And I'm wondering if that's a thing that you did back in the day. It is. I think it is. But if I had bought cemetery plots when I was younger, I would have bought plots in Texas. Yeah. My whole family lives in Nashville now. Right. And that's where my kids are born and raised. Right. This is their home, right? And so I wouldn't want them having to

move me back to this plot that I write. So I'm of the opinion, put some money aside. And when the day comes, then the day comes. Yeah. Cause wishes change. All right. That's a strange way to end this segment, but we'll be right back with you before you know it. You guys, one of the best gifts that you can leave your family after you're gone. Isn't stuff it's peace.

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This is The Ramsey Show, where we talk about your life and your money. We're here on The Ramsey Network taking your calls. 888-825-5225 gets you on the line. I'm Jade Warshaw next to Dr. John Deloney. Let's chop it up with Natalie in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's up, Natalie?

Hi, so I am calling about a question. Is it appropriate to financially support a missionary with debt and who is making some questionable financial decisions?

Tell me more. Yes. So my husband and I have a family member who works as a missionary here in the U.S. We've financially supported her for years. She carries both student loans and car loan debt. In our opinion, she's made some very questionable financial choices. Like what? Well, she announced she's going to be going overseas for a year.

She's going overseas for missions, and for the first year, she will be traveling to meet with different teams to see where God is calling her. Prior to going, she's going to take two months off at home to rest. This is coming after a beach trip with friends, a retreat in Colorado, and an upcoming tropical overseas vacation for her birthday. Why are you calling us? You know the answer. You just don't feel good about giving her the money. Yeah. Have you sat down and said no? No.

No. Why? So it's family. So it makes it hard. No, it makes it more important because the rest of the world doesn't seem to be telling her the truth. Yeah. And they're desperate for someone who loves her like her aunt to say, hey, look. Because she's living in an alt-universe.

Can I raise my hand here? Yes. Because I'm going to raise my hand because I'm going to act like, well, part of me is I don't know. And then I'm also going to act like I really don't know for the people who really don't know. So here's the way my brain filters it. And you guys tell me if I'm wrong. I'm thinking, okay, if I am...

Let's pretend I'm the missionary. If I'm Jade, if I want to go to the beach, I pay for that. If I want to go do Jade things, I pay for the Jade things. And then if I think, hey, I'm going to go do this work that is a mission and I'm giving some of my funding to it. And then if I say, John, if you care about this, would you like to fund some of it too? The money you give me is only going to the mission trip.

then I don't think that's wrong if you saw me go to the beach and I used my own money to go to the beach. Not at all. So are we talking about that or are we talking about she's using missionary money to go to the beach?

So her entire salary is funded through missions. Right. So all of her income would be going towards that. No, and the reason I'm smiling really big is I knew these students. I don't know. I know these folks. So, yes. Because here's what you're doing. You're giving her $5,000 a year, and it's going to her student loan interest, and you're paying the interest on her car note. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. You are not serving the least of these in under underprivileged communities that desperately need food and shelter and support. Yeah. You're paying a car note. Why isn't it separate? Why is it all together?

Because it's a whole ecosystem. Dude, we're about to get some canceled. Educate us, John. It's an ecosystem where you raise support for your salary. Okay. And let's say you make $50,000 a year. You go meet in homes. You meet with folks. And you get a number that will be your number for the year. Got you. But you, quote, unquote, live off that, right? Okay. So now there's red tape, right?

Well, it's the red tape at the discretion of the 24-year-old who's raising money, saying, well, I need new speakers, or I need new this, or I want to, I need to get new shoes, or new, right? And then there's those who give to missions where we are putting food, I want all of my money going directly to X, Y, and Z. So maybe you need to pick that, Natalie. You need to pick the form, you

you know, the framework where all the money just goes directly to, hey, we're packing backpacks or we're giving clean water or whatever that is. Maybe that's a better model for you. So am I being too controlling by analyzing where my money is going towards? It's your money. Okay. You're not being nearly controlling enough. Now, here's the thing. I go to a small local church. There's about 150 people here in Nashville.

I have, there's two elders of that church and there's a pastor of that church. Whenever I place membership at a church, I am submitting myself to those dudes leadership. And then that's a very unpopular thing to do in the 21st century. I don't care. I'm submitting me and my family are submitting to their leadership. So I write them checks and I trust them that they are going to use that money in a godly manner. I'm a Christian guy.

When it comes to somebody, I had one of my friend's kids reached out raising money. She is going to be at a camp all summer. I've been to that camp. I see the amazing work they do. And that was one of the funnest checks I've ever written. And in fact, I asked her to send me a video of her, like a secret video recording of her writing her dad a letter telling him what a great daddy is because he's one of my close friends.

But I know exactly where that money is going. Okay, let me open a bigger can. Let me open a bigger can of worms. It's almost like two, like, okay, it's like when you're tithing to your church, that money is pooled and it's paying salaries for the pastors. It's paying salaries for the staff. And some of that money is going towards outreach or missions or whatever things in the community that they deem necessary, however it is that they want to do ministry. And how many times do people get upset because maybe they see their pastor took a trip?

And they're like, he shouldn't have done that. And it's like, I don't know. Like there's part of this where if you're going to be too, you know what I mean? There's part of it where it's like, let me just give this and go. To me it comes down to trust. It comes down to trust. And if my pastor takes a trip, which thank God he does, I know he needs it. Yeah. Because I trust him. You don't trust this young woman. That's what it comes down to.

Yeah. And so how would I approach that after like we have financially supported her for years? This year, we're not going to we've we're not going to be able to do it this year. Yeah. Give her a long lead notice and say this year we're going to allocate our resources elsewhere. And if you want to be I had a couple of my uncles sit down and have hard conversations with me over the course of my entire life. And I'm so grateful they did. Two different uncles did about two different things.

And so if you want to interject yourself in that way, awesome. Or just say this year we're going to spend our – we're going to allocate our giving dollars in other places. That's it. And that's okay. You don't have to feel any type of way about that. You don't have to feel guilty. You don't have to feel anything other than this is a choice that I feel good about. But if you don't trust the people who are being a steward of your giving dollars –

And again, I think your important call, not every single solitary penny needs to go to, like there has to be administrative overhead. That's just a part of life. And I want people in leadership to be able to exhale and breathe because I know the literature on leaders and they burn out and they need, I want them there for the long haul. So all that's fine and good. That's not why you're calling. You don't trust this young girl. You're seeing how she, you don't like her entire lifestyle. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah. And that's what it comes down to. And so, yes, it's a simple conversation well in advance, like honor her in that way and then let them know. Could be a good chance too to kind of share because you mentioned earlier she's got student loans and she's got card notes. Could be a good chance to, like John said, sit down and teach her about, you know, good money management and what that's meant for you and your family and what that looks like. That could help her in the long haul to get more people who are willing to sponsor her or, you know,

Again, I did not know how this model works. Here's my unpopular hot take. Take it for what you will. If you have a car note and if you have student loans, you have obligated your time and your resources to banks, not to God. And so if you chose to take those products or those experiences before you could pay for them...

then opting to travel around and find God's calling and do all this like, but I think you have an obligation to pay your debts off before you start asking people, unless you ask, Hey, I want some help paying off these student loans so that I can get into the mission field. That's why I think it's super imperative to not go into debt for these things. Very steamy. That was a hot take. Yeah.

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit unions.

the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. The things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.

It was so user friendly, like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I

I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds.

and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. We've got Taylor in Calgary, Alberta. Hi, Taylor. Hi, how are you guys doing today? We're good.

So I was just wondering about whether or not I should take out a student loan for hair school. I'm currently only making about $700 every two weeks on the high end. And I just wanted some advice from you guys on whether or not I should do this. What are you making the $1,400 doing?

I'm working as a receptionist right now for a storage unit. Okay. And what does it cost? Student loans aside, what does it cost to get the training that you need for hair? It's $17,500 for the schooling. How long does it take?

Eight months. Okay. And so I live in Alberta and with student aid, Alberta, they give you six months before you have to start paying off your student loans as well. And I believe the interest rate for them, I don't have an exact number yet, but I believe it's between five and 10% for interest after the six months. Yeah. You know, I, I've never Taylor, I'm never going to tell you to go into debt to get the things that you want for many, many reasons. A,

That would be like a punishment.

on your dreams, which is not the way to go, right? You want to do hair. You shouldn't be punished for it with debt and payments. You should be able to go and do hair and pay as you go and then enjoy that degree once you have it. I have two parts to this, this thought. A, I want to talk about how we arrived at hair, what kind of hair we're going to be doing and what the plan is going on from there. But I also want to talk about how we can get the $17,000 and possibly make this happen. If it feels like the right path for you, do you have any debt?

I have a little bit of credit card debt. I have less than $1,000 in credit card debt. And my boyfriend and I, because I live with my boyfriend currently, and we have a little bit of financing. We finance some stuff from Amazon, but that's only like $500. So I only have about $1,500 in debt right now. Okay. Any money saved?

No. Okay. I want to say 90% of our money goes towards bills. It goes towards rent. Because you're not making much. What's he making? No. He just got a new job. He's making, I want to say, about $1,500 every two weeks take home. How old are you guys? He just started this. I'm 21. We're both 21. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So as you're...

older, hopefully surprisingly young looking sister, I want to tell you that one thing that one pattern that I see you starting is this pattern of if I want something, I maybe just go into debt to get it.

Even if it's not a lot. And that's usually how it starts. I can tell you for me, Taylor, it started with I just need a winter coat. And Express has a really cute pink peacoat. You know, it's only $500, you know, and that's the way it starts. It starts really low like that. And I always say that debt is a drug.

And credit cards are the gateway in, right? And so you started with this credit card thing on Amazon and then you got the other credit card thing. And now you're thinking, oh, maybe just a student loan. And that really is how it starts. And before you know it, like I said, it's a drug. Before you know it, you're hooked.

Because it teaches you that you can't really exist without it. That's what it does to you. It breaks down your ability to take your own money and manage it and feel good about it. Right. And so you're still young. You're 21. And I just see you on the cusp of this behavior. And I'm like, I see you on the cliff and I'm just like, pull her back.

Pull her back, pull her back, right? So that's what I want to kind of get into your brain. Let's not keep going towards this. Let's walk away from the edge of this debt cliff. And I think there's probably plenty of opportunities around you, and there are, that you can make more money. You could probably double your income or even triple your income very quickly if we just go for the right options. And once you can do that, now we can start to save up for this dream of doing hair, you know?

So, okay. Yeah. And here's the problem, Taylor, you call, you probably could not have called two of two of the worst people to ask this question between the two of us. We had over a half a million dollars in debt. And here's the frustrating thing. I'm pretty good at, I may not be great on the radio, but I'm pretty good at my helping people behind closed doors job. Jade is one of the most extraordinary talents and brilliant people you ever meet. And we lost years of our life paying these things back.

Okay. Can I add another thing? Yeah, go ahead. To the whole debt thing? Yeah. So I also have some money from my grandfather when I was younger. Like, he had put away kind of a trust fund. Now, unfortunately, the company that he had put that into turned into some sort of mortgage stock, I think. I don't know. This is just stuff that my mother's told me. But...

If I'm able to access that money later, like I'm able to pull it out of the stock. Did you ever meet your grandfather? $17,000. Did you ever meet your grandfather? Yes, I did. If he had been able to slide $17,000 across the table and pay for you to go to school, for you to have a career, would that have given him joy? Yes. Yeah. So that might be a way to honor...

Your granddad. Honor him. Yeah. Yeah. Be a good steward of that money. I, with it being in my mom's name and I, I don't not talk to my mom, but. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me back out. Let me back out. That's kind of one of those pipe dreamies. Like I know a friend who's got a thing who has a roommate who has a dog who knew this one guy one time. Here's the thing. Yeah. Jade was what Jade told you is way more important. Yeah.

There is no hack to learning the muscle or to earning the muscle of being able to want a thing and save up and go get it. And I'm telling you right now, money could fall from the sky. I would probably tell you right now if 20 grand just fell out of the sky, I'd probably tell you to pay off the $1,500, either marry this knucklehead or get your own place.

And then bigger than that, you've got to learn to save up for something that you want and, and prolong, feel that pain and then go earn it. And then decide when you're holding the cash to actually want this thing. Yeah. Delayed gratification is the greatest muscle you can build up because it puts all the, it puts all the balls and power in your court. If that makes sense. And every single image on Instagram, um,

tells you that delayed gratification is for old people and suckers. Please, please don't listen to that. You want a new jacket on Amazon? Awesome. Just save up and buy it. I promise you when you get $500 cash, you're not going to want that thing as bad as you think you do. Yeah. Right?

Paying for a car in cash, you end up buying a different car 99% of the time. That's right. Because you're like, all right, I'm just going to part with this much money. And that's interesting that you said that, John. It's a phenomenon that happens, Taylor. When you're broke and you're scrapping for money, everything your eyes see, it's like, I want that. How can I get that? It's like...

Yeah, you just you just want so much. And then when you get on the other side, and you've learned delayed gratification, you've learned how to make your money behave, you've learned how to make yourself behave. Suddenly, you look around and you're like, like it just the dial on what you need and want immediately just down shifts down. It goes from like being on level 10 to just on level two. And you're like, yeah, I might get that. I don't know. Let me re

me research a little bit more and you just learn how to take time and keep the power in your court. So yeah, this hair thing, I didn't ask you, what type of hair is it? What are you going to be doing? Braiding? Extensions? Color? So it's a schooling for kind of everything. So I'd be getting my diploma. So I'd be taught how to cut hair, how to do different types of haircuts, that sort of thing. I'd learn how to dye hair.

Have you ever done any of that before? Yeah, I've been doing hair. Well, it's been a passion of mine since I was, I want to say about five or six. I've always been a very like cosmetology type girl. Have you ever thought about applying to get a receptionist job at a salon? Right.

I have been applying for jobs. There just isn't anything in the market right now. And I've been applying to jobs as the hairstylist and just kind of brought up the fact that I would be an apprentice.

So instead of when you apply for these jobs, instead of telling them what you're not yet, tell them what you are. Tell them how long you've been doing hair. Tell them what you're great at doing as a receptionist and make sure you see them in person. Proximity principle, as Ken Coleman would teach, is so very important. Go knock on doors. And we'll send you that book.

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So, John, earlier this year, we released actually it was at the end of last year, I guess we released. No, it was the beginning of this year. We released these videos, 90 Day Money Makeover. It was basically this documentary series that was sponsored by EveryDollar where we followed the

an individual or in this case a couple of individuals over the course of 90 days and they were people who called into the show and you know people call in all the time we give them advice but to be able to follow them for 90 days and see are you actually going to take the advice and I mean we did this together remember Heather

Oh, yeah, dude. And you went out and visited her on her farm. Uh-huh, yep. And then she came into the studio. She flew to Nashville. That's right. We flew her to Nashville, and it was amazing. What a great experience. Great. And so every episode is a little bit different. Every situation is different. But, yeah, we check in with them at the 30-day point, the 60-day point, the 90-day point. And at the end, they come to Ramsey Solutions, and we all celebrate with them. They come to our staff meeting.

you know, meeting or get together and everybody celebrates them. It's this amazing thing. Matter of fact, we have a video to show you guys so you can kind of get a sense of it. What's going on, Heather? I'm just, I'm tired of debt controlling me in all aspects of my life. She's got a lot going on. We've got to simplify it. She's got the farm, the divorce, the debt. We're just praying the money's there, I guess. You can't breathe. Are you ready to commit to it? Are you going to do it? I need help.

I'm done with it. Getting the truck listed and putting that up for sale. Do I want to pet a chicken? No. I see you doing a lot that wasn't even part of the homework. And we're only at the 30 day point. I want to be on today. So that's good for divorce, right? There's no guarantee that the bank would let her keep the house. I want you to start dreaming what another living situation might look like if it doesn't go your way.

It's not what I want to do, but it's not always what I want to do. Very few people are sitting on one variable that could change everything. It's just really hard. And it's scary. I can't keep this up for another year.

Ooh, spoiler alert. Heather changed her life, didn't she? Dude, that's one of the coolest stories I've been a part of since I've worked for this Ramsey team. She came here and the thousand plus employees here celebrated her. It was pretty amazing. Yeah. To be a part of that, that,

Yeah, I agree with you. It's probably the single coolest thing we've done. The good news is this opportunity is still available. So if you're out there and you saw that and you're sitting in a mess right now, or you know you need a change and you could use a little accountability, a little bit of help, we're looking for folks. If you're interested in your own 90-day money makeover, you can click the link in today's show notes and you can fill out the form and our producers will review your submission and your story and be in touch. And I'll even

be in the process. Like I talk to you guys on the phone, I email you, I, you know, if you get to that point. So we go through it with a fine tooth comb, but if you're interested, man, we could sure use the stories because it provides hope. A, you get your life together. And then by way of you getting your life together and other people seeing it, it provides hope to them and they get their life together. So it's an amazing chain that you get to be a part of. Very, very cool.

Wow. If you've ever wondered what it would be like, I just want Jade to come sit at my kitchen table and walk through this with me. And I want Deloney to be honest with me. I want Rachel Cruz and George... I want people to sit...

This is what this is. And it's, that's so good you said that, John. It's 100% real. Like, it's not, they didn't like Frankenstein that together. We really went to Heather's house and I really hung, used her daughter's bathroom. I was up in there and she made some really delicious bread and cookies and they were really good. But yeah, this is a real thing. We really get up in your stuff and we sit knee to knee with you. But I took a farm woman and said, you got to sell your house. You did. And she did. She did.

And you told her, like, you gotta sell the horse. Like, you don't... Yeah. Only George Camel tells you to sell a horse. Yeah. Right? And... But here it was. Like, seeing her months later come to the building and talk about how she's...

Free? Yeah. It was wild, man. Yeah. And you can watch that episode. If you want to see the rest of that episode, it's on our YouTube highlights channel. Is that correct? And they'll put in the link to the show notes here, yeah. And the link is there in the show notes. Man, so, so, so good. I can't wait to do that again. I love that series. I love real life change. My favorite thing to do here at Ramsey is anything where I can talk directly to you guys. The show is great, but if we can be in the same room together, man, love that. All right.

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Ooh, today's question. Dude, this is like the hot take show today. Let's go. Today's question comes from Linda in Georgia.

What are your thoughts on this?

Oh, geez. Holy smokes. Let me tell you the way I would feel about this in story form. Okay. So if Sam Warshaw, my husband, came home and said, you know, the worst happened, so-and-so passed away, and I'll be getting $100,000. And oh, Jade, by the way, it's my money. You have no say in this. Let's just say Sam would be like a magic trick.

he gone he's gone he's gone and he got unsolved mystery is really really what it remember william shatner was it william shatner with unsolved mysteries no oh yeah it was yeah yeah my point is i'm not being violent on purpose i'm just saying like that would oh no my wife would kill me and they would never find my body yeah yeah it would create such division

In our lives, I said it's mine, not yours. Now, can we talk about it together? And let's flip it around. This is a stupid way to deal with $100,000. Yeah. To just dump it into stocks. Right, right, right, right, right. And so the real question here is, here's what I'm reading between the lines because I'm not talking to Linda on the phone.

She's never liked how her husband handles money. There you go. He's always deciding we're buying this. We're buying this, which means he's buying this. He's buying the cars. He's buying the land. He's buying the whatever. And finally she gets a little thing that's hers. And she says, my precious. It's mine. That's right. You can't touch this. Finally.

And he is saying, no, no, no. I'm the smart one. You're the dumb one. I always work out. And so I want to do. And so here's the deal. This is one of those moments I think Jade exposes. It's like when it rains real hard, it exposes even the smallest cracks in your home. So good, John. Yep. And then all of a sudden your basement's full of water, even with a little crack. Your basement's full of water. And that's one of these moments, right? So good. And so what we really need to do here, Linda, is get to the bottom of this.

Why are you suddenly wrapping your arms around this and saying, this is mine? If it's because you've never worked as a team, you've always, it's always been husband's way or the highway, then you need to, with your newfound economic security, and I hate to put it like that, but let's do it. Sit down at the table and say, I've never had a voice in this house. And my guess is, and again, I'm going to play both sides here. He has said, you've never spoke up once. And she'll say,

I never had the ability to. And him saying, I've tried to provide all of this for us. And it will be one of those conversations. And again, there could be a million different scenarios. I'm making one up here. I think you're spot on. Where both people are both kind of selfish. But at the end of the day, both are trying to do what they think is best for both of them. And neither of them are creating a shared vision together on what our life can be.

John, I think that you are 100% on the ball. We'll see. And let's just talk, you know, the marital stuff aside. Like there's obviously some issues there. I agree with what John is saying. When you get an inheritance, I do think that there's this part of it that it's kind of like the last caller. If somebody leaves you something, there's a joy that they want you to get out of.

that gift, right? Because it is a gift. And so with money, you do have to remember there's three things that you can do with it always. And especially with an inheritance, you really want to remember you can give some of it, you can save some of it and you can spend some of it. And I really think with an inheritance, you need to be careful to do all three of those. So it's really hitting the point of what it's there to do. I always like the picture of the person who gave it to you sitting across the table. And if you said, I'm going to do this, this and this,

where they sit back and smile. Yeah. That's what I always like to envision. That to me is the picture of stewardship. I love that.

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An overly confusing topic like insurance, very easy to understand, and it gives you very clear next steps. So go to RamseySolutions.com to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Brian is in Louisville, Kentucky. What's up, Brian? How's it going? What up? Doing good. Hey. So I guess...

So a little background. I've been currently debt-free. My wife and I paid off our house, and we've even gone as far as we've bought our retirement home. Nice. We're going to stay in Wisconsin. That's paid off. All our cars are paid off. Yeah. And now I'm kind of, I'm like a...

I hustle a lot. I mean, I have a little side hustles. My wife is a nurse. I'm a mechanic and I kind of buy and sell cars on the side to basically fund my hobbies and pay for everything I have. But now I'm kind of stepping up to, I'm trying to get into rental property and I'm

And it's a little scary because I'm not dealing with smaller amounts of money now, and I'm trying to figure out if I need to. I mean, currently I have about $200,000 that I can...

Uh, spin and my wife's mother, uh, just recently passed away and she got a little inheritance, uh, of some stocks that currently is worth about 150,000. And I'm trying to figure out if I need to, what we want to do is, is buy, uh, a couple of houses, uh,

Because in our area, there are travel nurses and I can rent each room in the house for $800 or $900 rather than renting it out as just the whole house and I can make more. And I'm trying to figure out if I should leverage a little bit of debt

and buy multiple houses? Or should I just buy one? Well, why not if I'm going to? For many reasons, but A, it's your first time even doing this and you're already spreading, you're already making it tougher because you say, hey, of all the bedrooms I have to list them, I have to rent them to four different tenants versus just one family. That already complicates it. I think that's a great idea, by the way, but it already complicates it. And then why not

It's like a franchise. Why not start with the one flagship store, make sure it's doing well, make sure it's in business, making money. Then if that one does well, you open another location and you just go at the speed of success and at the speed of cash, which by the way, has gotten you where you're at today, Brian. And can I tell you why I think you're nervous? I don't think it's the dollar amount. I think you and your wife are very smart and you're a deal maker. I think you're good at this.

I think you're nervous. Here's what I think. I think you're nervous because you're really good with cars and you understand it and you know how they work and you know how to fix them and you know what they're worth. And I don't know that you have that skill set here yet. That's why I think you're nervous because you're getting into what you've like, I'm graduating up as though what you've been doing that has bought you two paid for homes and has given you and your wife an amazing life wasn't somehow was less than you get what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah. You've done an amazing job, dude. It's awesome. Well, I hear that, but a lot of times I also have a... Sometimes I feel I'm really good with money, but then I... Also times I feel like I make stupid decisions. Like, I have a hobby that literally... Like, not only do I build cars, but I restore classics, and I...

I don't even want to say how much it is, but I spend stupid amounts of money on it. But you don't owe anybody anything. You have two paid-for houses, and you can. Yeah, there's a certain amount of margin in your world that you could literally set it on fire, and it'd be okay. I went fishing this weekend with my son. Do you know what I spent? I'm not even going to say it on the air because I'm embarrassed, but I just kept telling my son when we were running out of lures, go get another one, go get another one, because we were having so much fun. But I've budgeted for that, and we can do that.

So you don't need to justify that, man. I'm glad that you have a passion that you're so good at and you restore old cars. That's amazing. That's a blessing, yeah. But here's the thing. Well, one question. Go for it. I mean, couldn't I miss out, though? I mean, houses are always going up. Okay. I mean, couldn't I miss out if I don't buy? You could. Let's play that out. You could. But I want you to talk to a whole bunch of leveraged rental home owners who

Who during COVID out of nowhere, we're told you don't have to pay your bills or. Well, see, see, that's why I actually, the reason I'm getting into this is because when I, when I moved to my current place, um,

I transferred, I've always worked on high-end cars. I used to work on Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and now I work on more luxury lines like BMWs, and I got a nice offer to move down here.

And the lady that I rented from, that's what she does. And she actually introduced me to my wife. She works. She's also a nurse. And that's how I met my wife. She does this. And that's why I was thinking. Let me throw a wrench in. Here's what you're not hearing. You're not hearing. It has worked up until now.

Everything is it's called the turkey problem. The turkey thinks the farmer is the greatest person of all time because every day that farmer comes out and feeds it and takes care of it until the day before Thanksgiving. And what you're doing is you've seen somebody who in a season this thing has worked. What if in 24 months AI gets good enough that it really kind of shuts down the travel nursing market and just localizes it all?

And suddenly you've got four houses that the mortgage just keeps coming and you're going to have to sell your Wisconsin house to make the payments on them because you can't rent them out. Will that happen? I hope not, but I don't know. I'm just making something up. But if you own a house outright that you've taken this $350,000 and just bought one, and then suddenly you've got four people renting it out from you at 900 bucks a month, then within a few years, you're going to buy another one with cash.

And then another one with cash. And if anything in the market downturns, you're just out that. Yeah, I think what John is saying is so good. And don't get me wrong. Like COVID, that was kind of an outlier. We don't know if something like that's going to happen again. But the fact that risk does exist all the time. That's why they call it leverage. There's another side of the fulcrum. All the time. And it's...

And I also do want to say plenty of people, Brian, probably go out and do what you're doing and they're OK. You know, somehow they make it through and people call here all the time. They've got a couple of properties and we don't necessarily tell them to sell them and they find a way to make it through. But I want to capitalize on what you said earlier, which is, am I missing out?

And I think that you need to reframe your brain on what that means. You could say, oh, I'm missing out on money I could be earning on rent. Or you could say, by buying these in cash, I'm missing out on the stress that everybody else has to think about. Missing out on sleep. I'm missing out on the debt that every... And those are things you want to miss out on. You want to miss out on debt. You want to miss out on stress. You want to miss out on the anxiety if somebody doesn't pay. Those are things that they're good to miss out on because plenty of people are doing this

And they have to carry all of that because they've done it on debt. For you to be able to do this without that, what a wonderful thing to accomplish. I would say that you're more successful if you can carry less properties, but carry them in cash and grow them over time than the person who is sitting there with a portfolio of 10 properties that they carry debt on. These days, the internet is chock full of so-called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen,

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From the Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls about your life, your money. You can get in on the show by calling the number 888-825-5225. Gets you at least to the answering machines. And then from there, you know, you can schedule a call. Very rarely do you just get like straight through. I don't know. Yeah, a lot of people get straight through. Yeah, you can get straight through. All right.

With that being said, Ashton got straight through. Ashton in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's up, Ashton? Hello. How are you? Doing good. How can we help?

So I'm calling. I am 37 years old. I have one daughter. I currently just moved back in with my parents because I'm actually renting out my house. So one of my questions is, I have a 401k through my job. It only has about $5,000 in it. And then I also have a Roth IRA, which has maybe about $1,000. Do I need both a 401k and that Roth IRA? Yes.

for retirement in the future? Or are you trying to cash him out for something? Well, that would be my next question. I knew it. So, Chris,

Credit card debt, I have probably about $4,500 credit card debt. Personal loans, probably about $3,000. Then I have a car loan for about $7,000, but then I also have student loans, which are about $60,000. So my question is, should I withdraw the funds from that 401k and that

IRA to like pay off the small loans like my credit card and maybe my personal loan and then also with the money that I'm making from my home should I take that money pay some stuff off or because my plan is I wanted to save that money and like buy like another investment property so that I can keep God help you Ashton Ashton just take about 75% off just slow down

Slow it down. Okay, I'm sorry. No, you're good. You're good. Let me ask you this. Why are you renting your house out and living somewhere else? Just to get ahead and just to get passive income. I'm tired of living paycheck from paycheck. Here's what I like about what you're saying. What I like about is you're looking for, you're knocking on the wall to see where the hollow spots are. You're trying to get out, and I like that.

What I do think is that you're getting a little ahead of yourself. So I think John and I can help you find the right escape route to get out of this debt and get to where you're trying to get to. So first off, there's a point that we drain savings.

um, in order to pay off debt, but we never drain retirement savings because that is your future. And if you draw, if you drain your retirement savings, you're essentially robbing from yourself. You're robbing from your future self and you're going to need that money. There is going to come a time where you will no longer be able to work. And I know it's a long ways away, but it will come. And that money needs to grow for you. So it's there when you need it. So no,

Do not, even though it's only $6,000 today, do not touch that 401k. Do not touch that Roth. And real quick, that $6,000, just give or take, you're going to pay 30% in taxes and fees. Taxes. Okay, that makes sense. So that $6,000, you might get $4,500 or $4,000 of it, right? I mean, you wouldn't borrow a loan at 30%, right?

Right. That'd be madness. So don't, yeah, just, it's, it's just, it's, it's not good any way around. So we're not going to touch that. Do you have any other money saved, like liquid money saved or in a, you know, high yield savings or anything like that? So the money that I have in my house, I have that in a high yield savings account, but that's all the money I have saved. And how much is that?

Right now it's about $5,000. Okay. So now that you're... I'm going to get to this in a minute, but I want to talk hypothetically right now. Now that you're a landlord, this is the business, right? And so...

So there's part of this where it's like, hey, this $5,000 is there, but as long as you're a landlord, you need a cushion because if the AC goes out in that house, guess who's paying for it? The landlord, right? And you don't want to go into debt to have to cover that stuff. So as much as I'd like to say, yeah, that $5,000 is yours, that would be a little bit tough for me to tell you that because anything can happen with that house, which leads me to my next conversation. Right.

I love that you're looking for ways to get out of this, but living with your parents, do you have any kids or significant other, anything like that? It's just you. I just have a daughter. Okay. So you going to live with your parents, um,

at this age is a tough call and I'm not going to tell you don't do it. I'm not going to tell you to do it. I am going to say if you are, if you choose to do it, you need to have a very clear timeline and you need to have a very clear set of goals that you're going to accomplish. If you're doing this, I would not do it while renting a house because you're still keeping around the very risk and the very, uh,

ability to have to shell out cash that homeownership provides. So you're not really giving yourself that much breathing room by doing that. So you need to decide, am I going to be a homeowner and live in my house with my daughter and pick up extra jobs to pay off this debt? Or am I going to sell my house? Am I going to live with my parents for two years, clean up all this mess, save up for a down payment, and then go back and buy another house again? That's the decision that you've got to make. And maybe you make it on this call. I don't know. What are you thinking?

And see, you can't do that yet. You got to pay off this debt first. Yeah.

And you've got to pay off your current home first. This idea, and I know you're coming at me from something that you've heard something or seen something that seemed very successful, and I get it. There's just this allure right now to passive income, which, by the way, is not really passive. You have to do a lot of work. And like we've just discovered, you have to actually have a lot of money saved if you're going to float this thing. That's...

As respectfully as I can say that you're just not there yet to be able to do it successfully. The best way to do real estate is to go very slowly with cash. That's the way you're making money quickly. All these people who are floating several multifamilies and all that, they've got so much debt and they're strapped up to their eyeballs. And if one thing falls in that line of dominoes, they're filing bankruptcy. If one tenant doesn't pay. That makes sense. How much equity do you have in your home right now?

So I just got about $30,000 left on it. I mean, how much is it worth? If you sold it today? Probably about close to $300,000. It's a townhouse. And you only owe $30,000 left? Mm-hmm. It was my mom's house before she passed away. Okay. And when she passed away, I'm the only child, so of course... Can I tell you something crazy? Yes. Don't do this. I'm going to do it. What if you sold that house? What if you sold that house?

I wouldn't. If you sold that house and paid the capital gains, I don't care about all that. You sold that house. You pay off all of your debts. You have $100,000 in the bank. That's true. That's one route.

That's one route you should you could 100% consider in J night. I wouldn't do it. I'm all about peace. And so yeah, the only reason I wouldn't do it is because you only owe 30,000 on it. And it is a family home. And you're not I didn't ask you how much do you make? Tell me how much you make?

Okay. Well... 50-something. 50-something, and with the debt that you have, it's not out of reach. I'd probably keep the property because I don't think anything's on fire. I think you already have the help with your parents'...

They're helping you with child care. They were willing to help you, you know, staying there. I think this is about you getting a second job and even applying for better jobs that will pay more. And I think it's about you getting a little bit more uncomfortable on the career side to make this happen. I want to hook you up with Financial Peace University. I want to hook you up with every dollar because that's going to be the key for you to get out of this.

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Thomas is in Miami, Florida, my favorite place in the country. Welcome to Miami. What's up, Thomas? Hey, guys. How are you doing? Doing good. How can we help? Good, good, good. Before I get into my question, I just I wanted to say first and foremost, Dr. John Jade, my wife and I are longtime listeners. We love you guys and we just really appreciate what you do.

Thank you, brother. I appreciate you, man. That's so kind. Yeah. So initially when I submitted my question several months back, it was in regards to a pregnancy announcement in the midst of the baby steps. My wife and I are in the middle of baby step number two right now. We found Ramsey probably about...

three or four months before we found out she got pregnant. So we started to go gazelle and tense and stop being stupid, but and all that stuff. And I picked up the second job. But we didn't get to have the opportunity to become parents on this side of life. My wife had a miscarriage earlier this month. So sorry. Yeah. Been there, brother. I hate that for you guys.

Yeah, and it's come with its challenges, you know, but we do have a beautiful community of people around us, and it's a lot more common than we think. And so it's like just no one talks about it, but when we started opening up and talking about it, a lot of people were like, yeah, us too, and we just got to keep on trucking and stuff like that. So my question today, initially I wanted to make it a financial one, but I guess is...

for the both of us, we want to be able to use this as an opportunity to help other people where we've been at. Obviously we're very dedicated to the baby steps. I still have a second job and we're working hard doing the debt snowball and all that stuff. We did pump the brakes a little bit initially when it happened, but you know, we're kind of getting back on track now. I just want to know from your guys' opinion, you know, what will be the best way for her and I to be able to move forward? And you,

I guess this tragedy in life to be able to be there for others and just let other people know that it doesn't stop life, that it's a part of life and it happens, but you can keep on moving forward and have hope in the future. I mean, my rule of thumb is I don't talk about stuff or try to teach on stuff until I've fully metabolized the grief. It doesn't mean it's going to go away or the loss doesn't go away, but

Um, the second thing that I think is really important is I'll take it away from miscarriage because that's a really heavy topic for all of us. Um, I get a lot of emails or direct messages, especially from, it goes something like this.

I cheated on my wife nine times. We rebuilt our marriage and now we want to have, we're writing a marriage book and we want to become like help other people. And I always want to say, Hey, you're the worst person that you don't need to write a marriage book. Right. And so, and what, and here's what I mean by that is, is a, a personal experience in a thing is the gateway to become really skilled at sitting with other people.

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And so what you guys have now is a shared experience. It's painful. It's hard. You know, working through it and you know what it feels like from the inside out. That is a powerful, powerful thing. What I would suggest is also now learn the skills of sitting with folks, maybe attend grief classes, maybe attend a Sunday school where they have a ministry for this or something like that, where you can begin to listen to other people's stories.

And that's how you begin to earn that credibility to not only have a shared experience, but also you've heard the stories of a bunch of other people because everybody experiences that differently. What was really, really hard on my marriage is I experienced it very different than my wife did. We had two very different experiences with the same tragedy.

Yeah, 100%.

And then on the other side of this thing, in six months, in a year or two, maybe at your local church, you say, hey, we're going to start a Sunday school class for people who've experienced this or any type of loss. Or we're going to once a month go volunteer at the church – I mean at the local hospital and sit with folks who just found this out.

And then over time, you become really skilled in the art and science and spirit of sitting with hurting people. And I think that's a thing that all of us need more of in our community. So I commend your heart. What do you think, Jade? I...

I think John is exactly right. And I want to ask another question because my screen says, can I take my wife on vacation while we're in baby step two? I'm assuming that with this grief, you're wanting to get away and wanting to change scenery. Is that what that is? Well, yeah, I mean, initially, um,

you know like john talked about we kind of went through all the stages of this and i'm not sure it's fully done either because i still have my moments where when i think about it i shed tears and stuff like that um but yeah she's i mean it's crazy to say it but honestly it like made me be even more in love with her and uh

I guess in my own way due to the things that I've been through in my life, it just made me fall in love with her all over again. I get it. And I just wanted to know how much of an amazing person she is. But we're in the middle of the baby steps right now. And so it's the point of like being disciplined with our money and thinking differently. We do have money in the bank just from...

you know, saving before we came to Ramsey and all that. Yeah. So let me talk to this for a minute because, you know, we talk about stork mode, which is, you know, you're having a baby and so you save up all this money. Then there's storm mode, which is a really tough storm comes. And a lot of times we hear that in the form of like a job loss or, you know, someone gets sick, but grieving is a storm and a big change is a storm. And, and,

I do think it's okay. I'm just going to say this and some people are going to be like, what? There's bigger and more important things in life than money sometimes. And there's things that come up where it's like the priority was paying off debt and now the priority is me loving my wife well in another way.

And that could look like you guys getting away. I know you're not unreasonable people, so I don't think that you're going to take a 30-day vacation to Scotland, right? I think you're probably like, hey, let's...

let's, you know, get away for a weekend and do that. I feel like you're going to do something reasonable and it's going to be helpful to your marriage and it's not going to be this major cannonball into your finances. I trust that that's not what you're talking about. And I think that if that's what you need to do, I think you do that and you do it

ASAP. Yeah. Okay. That makes me feel better. I guess, you know, in a way, sometimes when you're sifting through the guilt, you kind of want to find permission. Yeah. And I get it. I just, I want her to, she's just the most amazing person ever. Let me, let me tell you a couple of things that I learned in this process and just sitting with countless people in this. I promise you, you can't say dumber things than I said. I promise you. Yeah.

And I promise you, you can't mess this up worse than I messed it up. Okay. And so if you said some things or thought some things or didn't understand the impact of things, don't beat yourself up, man. Like exhale through it. The second thing is, is most men in this kind of situation, they run around and try to solve a problem. This isn't a problem to solve. She is a wife to love. And so ask her, how can I love you?

And it might be, how can I love you today? Okay. Here's a third thing. That one hit. Have some, and by the way, today it might be, I just need you to sit here and hug me and watch old office episodes. And someday it may be get away from me. I just need to be by myself. Here's a third thing. Have some sort of marker or ceremony, whether y'all write a letter to this kid and talk about week we had plans or,

We had pictures of you guys at you and whoever you were going to marry at a Thanksgiving table 20 years from now. That's not going to happen. Write a letter to that little boy and read it to each other.

And the final, I went and tattooed the three losses. We had names and everything. I went tattooing on my body, like come up with some sort of process, some sort of, I'll call it a ritual, some sort of experience that y'all can share together to mark this moment. It's not about getting rid of it or it's not about moving on from it. It's about it. Like metabolizing. It's a part of you now. And it's a part of your shared experience, but ask your wife every day.

How can I love you today? She might say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Keep asking her and keep asking her and keep showing up. You're a good husband, my man.

Okay, buying or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and the confusing data, it can be tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market, in the real estate market. But we're here to help. We want to make sure you know the latest trends and make sure that they're easy to understand. Like for instance, medium home prices went up slightly last month to about $430,000. There

There you go. More homes are on the market than previously. Right now, there's nearly one million on the market, which happens to be the highest amount, by the way, since 2019. But in many areas, it's still not enough to meet the buyer demand. That is true. Also, the average 15 year fixed rate rose to 5.90 last month. But the good news is it's still under 6%.

So if you're financially ready, a small rate increase shouldn't hold you back from buying the home that you love. Now, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, then you can go to RamseySolutions.com slash market, or you can click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Beth is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

What's going on, Beth? Hey, the crux of my question is essentially my husband owns a home in New Jersey that he rents out to his ex-girlfriend. Whoa. Whoa. Yeah. Nice. Let that marinate for a minute. You just sped past that. Ooh. Okay. I know. So...

They, well, he bought it. It's entirely in his name, both the mortgage and the deed. He bought it in like 2016, 2017. And then, you know, a few years later they broke up. They do share a tile together. So that's kind of where the rental agreement came in. Yeah. So wanted to make sure that, you know,

There was limited, like, you know, disruption for his child. So, yeah. So he rents out the place to his ex. And now, you know, fast forward a few years, we are trying to get qualified for a home and...

You don't say. No way. I thought exes always did exactly what they said they were going to do. So he's not collecting the rent and paying the mortgage. He's just assuming that she's paying it. Correct. Yeah.

Amazing. This is so great. Okay, okay. And let me say, I kind of get that. He was probably like, I don't want to have to be involved in this if I don't have to be, right? Like, limit contact kind of thing. That's exactly it. So it wasn't a fun breakup, and so that's a part of the dynamic here, right? One, he wants to...

Obviously, being low conflict puts back for his child in the situation. So just keep that in mind. I do. That's where his intention was. So that's kind of the situation we're in. So how far behind is she?

Um, she's actually like the payments are up to, you know, are up to date. She has just had a, um, a history of late payments. So in this year alone, right? Like as of mid May, she was late on three payments and it's like past the 30 day mark. Right. So it's being, it's hitting his credit report. And then we did a more extensive credit report and she was late, um,

Yikes. So you're not getting a house. Yeah, you aren't getting a house. Not for a while.

That's surprisingly enough, right? We did our credit report and his score isn't as bad as you might expect. What is it? I think it was in the low sevens. Okay. Yeah, that's not as bad as I would expect. Right, exactly. And that's what the lender said as well, that he was really surprised. But it goes to show you that he is on top of his finances with the exception of this situation. So...

So what's your question? Yeah, my question for you is, what would be your advice in a situation to...

move on from the, from it. Right. You got to sell the house and let her get her own space. It's been how many years? Five years. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's been married and they hit her and her new husband have a child together. Oh gosh. Yeah. This is overdue. Yeah. This long overdue. And, and, and I wouldn't make a big drama about it. I wouldn't go talk about the past missed payments. And I would just say, Hey,

It's been five years. I think we've all moved on. I think we're all in a good place. And honestly, we're about to buy a house anyway. So we need to clear this out. We're going to give them the right amount of time. We're going to be selling the house in six months or, you know, give them a window to get out of there and then sell it. Or if there's an incredible, I'm making up a number here, but let's say the house is worth 500 grand and he's got $200,000 in equity and

If he wanted to make them just a stupid deal on it, to let them buy it as, like, a gift to his daughter or something like that. Yeah. He could do that. But y'all got to sell the house. It sounds like if she's late 20 times over the course of five years, she's got other issues financially. Right. And that's the other thing we're, like, you know, conscious of. Because, right, if she can't, like, for context, too, like, the house, the mortgage payment is, like, $1,100 a month. Right? And if, like, you're late on that, you know...

The last thing that I think he wants to do is, and he's not responsible for their finances, so understand that, but the last thing he wants to do is kind of like throw them out, you know what I mean? And he's-

It's not throwing them out. You're giving them five, six months to get their own space. And it's fair. He owns the house. I personally wouldn't wait five or six months just because I don't trust what they would do to the house. Or they might just stop paying it altogether. And they might. And you can stipulize all that. That can all be stipulations in how you do this. But the point is you're giving them a fair amount of time to find something new. And if you find that...

they are not holding up their end of the deal. Yeah. You accelerate that process and you can let them know that ahead of time. We're telling you this out of good faith because we love this daughter and we care about making sure you land on your feet. Now, if you abuse that, then we'll accelerate this and you'll be out in a month. Yeah. Exactly. What's the custody arrangement with daughter? Um, every other weekend. Okay. Every other weekend. So she stays almost all the time with mom. How come? Um, yeah,

You know, that was an agreement when they first broke up because he was working, you know, two jobs and like he, you know, insane hours. And so that was kind of what they agreed on then. And but that's kind of outdated as well. Yeah. So, yeah, here's here's the the broader picture for me is this. He doesn't have an obligation to that mother or that her new stepdad.

Mm-hmm. It's their responsibility to figure that out. And what I'm going to say is going to sound harsh, and I don't mean for it to sound harsh, but you and him... By the way, this house is yours, too. Yeah. It's y'all's. Mm-hmm. Okay? And...

Y'all need to decide what kind of life y'all want to live to, to, to, to have. Right. And I wouldn't personally want my wife's ex-boyfriend five years later, still messing up my financial life. That's right. Okay. And I can't breathe. Right. If I'm away from my daughter for more than three or four days, call me a sucker. I don't care. I don't like it when I'm on the road for two weeks at a time. I just, I get out of sorts.

And so if he is okay seeing his daughter every other weekend, more power to you. I couldn't live like that. And so it may be we're going to revisit a whole bunch of things. And if her new stepdad and her bio mom cannot afford to find a place to live, cannot afford groceries, I'm going to have a different conversation with them in the courts about my daughter's well-being and safety.

Right. But I'm not going to burn down my financial life supporting somebody that has no interest in supporting themselves. Yeah, because you're right. If they're struggling with $1,100 on this rent, they're struggling, struggling. Right.

They really, yeah. Or they're struggling, but you know why? Because they can. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know, yeah, how much of that, because it's not like, obviously, with the mortgage being only in his name and everything, she wasn't the most financially responsible person. Yeah, because she didn't have to be. He allowed that. You've been the safety net there this whole time. But John is exactly right. You have a stake in this, and... Y'all sit down. You sit down together and say, this is what we want. Wow.

This has been going on long enough. It's been five years for crying out loud. They're okay to go out on their own. And yeah, I am with you, John. I don't, I could never see. I would do a walk through that house and I'd put on the market sooner rather than later.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com.

slash insurance.

Let that one marinate. Put that teabag in your water and let it steep. All right, let's go to Miles in Hartford, Connecticut. What's up, Miles? Hey, nothing much. Those quotes were freaking awesome. They were, weren't they? That's my favorite Bible verse, and I love Jordan Peterson, so thank you. Perfect. It was just for you. Just for you, Miles. We knew you were calling. How can we help? What's up, dude?

So I got a bit of an issue. My parents have recently come to light about, I've always known they have some financial issues, but recently the extent of it has come through. Basically, they are $400,000 in debt with Parent PLUS loans, and it looks like they're going to lose their house. They just started talking to a bankruptcy attorney, so I was just a little curious as to what some of their options might be. Well, they can't discharge those Parent PLUS loans with bankruptcy, can they?

Yeah, they're in the process. They said something about basically they filed a criminal report. My mom says that she would not have checked off recurring every year. So she says it's fraudulent in that way. I suspect it's not fraudulent. Yeah, wait a second. So you're saying that she hold on. Let me make sure I get my mind around this. You're saying that she's signed for maybe one semester. Yeah.

And they continue to send them for the other semesters automatically. And she wasn't aware of that. Yeah. So how did she continue to cash the check? Yeah, because how did she think school was going to go right to the school? I don't know how they work. But I guess my question is, whoever the loans were for, how did she think it was getting paid for if she wasn't pulling out loans?

That's a great question. The likelihood of these being discharged, unless it truly was criminal, which it doesn't sound like it was, is like 0%. So let's go back to your first question then. Okay. So what else do you, I mean, how old are your parents? My mom is early 60s. My dad is late 80s. Okay. Who do they sign these parent loan plus, these parent plus loans for?

Mainly my sister, but I think some of it is me, but my mom says it's not for me, but I suspect it is. So what degree does your sister have for $400,000? Early childhood development. You can't be serious. That's impossible. Well, they've probably been accruing tons of interest over 40 years. I think my mom hasn't paid it in 10 years.

So it's just been... So what I think, what it sounds like, I think there's a lot of unknowns here. If I were you, I'd sit down with your sister first, probably, and say, think back in your mind. Tell me, what do you think, what was the student loan conversation with you and your mom? I'm just trying to get some thoughts around this. Because here's the hard part. Whether the money was for you or your sister...

Right.

And now they're in this situation and you guys are like, well, should we pay it back? But the truth is they took it out in their names. And if the agreement was never for you to pay it, then it's not for you to pay. Now that's like the truth. Now we can look at other ways to get around it.

which is, Miles, how are you doing financially? Is there a portion of it that you feel led to take on to pay? And then we could talk about that or, you know, same thing with your sister, if that's even a valid thing to discuss. So my concern isn't as much like I'm feeling an obligation to pay it back. I don't. More so, it's just like I don't want them to lose their house. And that's kind of what it's looking like it's going to be. And

Yeah. They also, I guess, are going to start backing my dad's social security. Yeah, they will. Yeah, they're going to come for your soul, dude. They will. You got to pay them. How much do they owe on the house? Do you know? I think $200,000 left. How much is the house worth? Probably $400,000 to $500,000. Yeah, they're going to have to sell the house. And by the way, I just want to say to you, it's really tough to watch...

people that we love go through things that we feel like could have been avoidable or could have been different, but their lives are their lives. And we can't,

You couldn't have changed that. Do you know what I'm saying? It was their choice to take on the loans. It was their choice to maybe not pay on the loans. It was their choice to stick their head in the sand for a decade or more. And it's just really tough to sit there and watch that. And it's totally, yeah, of course, nobody wants to see that happen. But I don't know that there's anything that you're going to be able to do to stop that.

Unless you have $400,000 sitting around that you're happy to give as a gift. Or if there's a way to go back and negotiate on the interest. Like, hey, we're going to write you a lump sum of $210,000 and maybe they'll negotiate with you. I don't know how they...

I don't know what happens when you haven't paid on 10 years. My guess is they've sold it and then it's been sold four or five times. Not if it's a federal loan. If it's a private loan, possibly you could, you know, make some deals. But federal loans, man, they don't budge. But yeah, there's a pay the piper moment on this and this is it. And your mom can file fraudulent charges. Here's the deal. She's been getting letters and emails for a decade. That's just the way that is. Do you have money, Miles?

A little bit, not much. It was about $50,000. Yeah. And does your sister have money? I mean, if you have debt. Nope. Yeah. Yeah, she's early childhood development. I recently told her to watch a Ramsey show, so she's not in great shape. Yeah. I don't know who's giving your parents bankruptcy advice here, but if they're filing for bankruptcy, it may be worse than they're telling you.

Mm-hmm. That means there's a lot of other things, not just this $400,000 of student loans. Because you just can't discharge. I know there's other stuff, yeah. You just can't discharge student loans. Yeah. Okay. And hear me say this, because I'm not saying you have to. If you wanted to, yeah, your sister could say, what portion of the student loans are mine? And you could say, what portion of the student loans are mine? And you could either say...

Yeah, I'm going to give you a lump sum for what the original amount was, and I've washed my hands of it. Or, you know, if you are a person who has the means to help and you'd like to help, I just want you to hear me say, you have the ability to do that. That's up to you. You set boundaries around it. You make clear expectations, move on. But you're not in, you don't have to do that in this case. So it's just one of those things where...

John, I hate Parent PLUS loans for this very reason. Ah, dude. For this very reason, because A, it's debt, so it's chains and shackles. But B, the water is so muddied because it's, well, it's for your education, you know, pointing to the son or daughter. It's for your education, but the parent is the one that says, yeah, but I'll sign it. I'll take all the onus on me. And then...

Decades roll by and life doesn't go the way mom and dad thought it was going to go. And they put it off and put it off. And now it's like, well, technically this is on you because it's your education. And they're pointing back at the son and daughter again. And then the son and daughter feels the weight of it. But they're like, I never have the time. They didn't even know that that was the way college was being paid for. Right. It's like, I didn't even know you did this. You know, it's just such a kid would sign for a staffer loan back in the day and, and didn't know that mom and dad had signed for another. Right. Right.

It's like the Spider-Man meme where they're all pointing at each other. Like, who was it? And like you said, this points to a bigger picture of financial mismanagement. It just sounds like a mess. And then you got a young man looking at the door. And here's what he's staring down.

My parents are going to lose the house. They're moving in with me. Yeah, now what? They're moving in with sister. Now what? Yeah, there's very much a now what. And they're 60-something years old. And they're going back to work at wherever they can get a job. So this is a message for parents right now who are in their, I don't know, 40s and your kids are getting ready to go to college. You have very important choices to make. And those choices are, A, making sure your kids are set up to go to college by educating them and setting expectations.

expectations on we're not doing debt. I don't care how you do it, but we're not doing debt. And three, make sure that you're taking care of your retirement and taking care of your own self and don't pass that burden off onto your children. That's not fair. It's not nice. And it's not loving your children well.

Hey, you guys, I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey Show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey 101 YouTube playlist. And if you're new to the Ramsey Show,

a quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey Plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work, how the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast, and how to build wealth and invest for the future, and so much more.

So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it. Text it. Send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share. One playlist.

One step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share The Ramsey Show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.