Don't Let Debt Happen To You—Face It Head-On
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author and all-around great person, Rachel Cruz. And we are here for you, America, answering your questions about money,

in life and all of the predicaments and challenges and maybe some wins that you're facing. 888-825-5225 is the number to call to join the conversation. Olivia kicks us off in Buffalo, New York. Olivia, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a huge fan of the Ramsey show, especially Dave. He's awesome. We agree. Yeah, love him. So my question for you all today is, my sister took advantage of our sick mom, skipped town, and stole my inheritance. What should I do? Oh my gosh, Olivia. What do you mean took advantage of your sick mom?

Took advantage. Well, okay. She took over the family business even though it wasn't left to her. She convinced my mom to become the power of attorney and healthcare proxy and transferred all money to her own account. Oh, wow. Wow. She also sold my mom's house and moved my mom into the family business.

Into the business? Into the, like, the office? Yes. Okay. What kind of sickness does your mom have? She had cancer. She died three months ago. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry, Olivia. Do you have any other siblings? No.

No, I'm the eldest. I'm 40 years old. My sister is approximately 37 years old. She lived with both of my parents who passed from cancer and she has skipped town and has not buried my mom. Where is your mom? She, she, sorry, my sister has her ashes. Okay. She's

Oh my gosh. Did you and your sister have a relationship before all of this? We did. It was, I thought it was a lovely relationship. And then things started getting weird when my father passed away five years ago. And then my mom got cancer. And I believe she felt entitled as the power of attorney to all money, all estate, all inheritance. And she's gone. She changed her number. She left town.

So from a legal standpoint, did your mom have in your dad, you know, any documentation legally like in a will of what your inheritance is? And then she went and changed it as power of attorney? Or is there a will out there that you are owed essentially your inheritance? There is a will that my mom wrote. I have never seen it. My sister attempted to change the will one month prior to death, but they never got it signed. Okay.

So there is a handwritten will. I'm not sure if it was done with a lawyer, but I've never seen the will. Okay. And you have no point of contacts for anyone that might have information on this? I've tried to reach out to the lawyers and they said, Catherine, I'm sorry, Olivia, it was never signed, therefore it's not valid. The will, yeah. And they have no version that is signed?

Correct. Oh, man, Olivia. The question would be, do I keep my own peace and sanity and money and move forward with my life, or do I try to fight it? Essentially, yeah. I mean, the only issue with all of that, because I don't mind the fighting injustice. I mean, we're not scared of that, but I don't know if you have any legal documents that will uphold in court that

To to fight your side, like I don't know if there's any legal documentation to show your side, because from a legal perspective, you know, you could be lying as much as she is. Right. I'm not saying you are, Olivia, but like there's no there's no proof otherwise. We need some kind of paper trail. There needs to be like some some level of documentation to in order to when you hire lawyers for them to fight this in the court system. And I just don't know if you if you have that. Have you contacted a lawyer?

Yes, I have. What did they say? That was a lawyer. He said that it may not be worth it because number one, there may not be any money left over. That's true. Yeah. And right. So it may cost five to $10,000 for a lawyer and I may not get anything after all. Yeah. How much was the estate worth? Like how much did your parents have? Do you, do you have any idea? Well,

The house was sold for $344,000. There were many liens against the house, and my sister has all of that money. Okay, so there were some liens. Was that all of your inheritance, or was there other money that was supposed to be given to you? That was probably all of my inheritance. Okay, so it wasn't retirement accounts, other assets, cash, things like that.

No, there was the family business, but that's another topic. I believe just the money from the house would be part of my inheritance. Yeah, I mean, that would be $120,000 for you if you just 50-50. We don't know all these liens against it. I was going to say, the liens against it, too, would be diminished, too. I don't know that there would be much here for you based on how complicated this whole thing is and was. I agree. Oh, Olivia. Well, what's so hard is I'm like, you've lost your mom.

There's a feeling of no closure. Lost her dad, lost her sister in a way. Lost your sister in this. There's no closure. I mean, the whole way it went down for you, Olivia, it's just terrible. And I wish I had better guidance or direction for you to get some justice in this. Do you have any money right now? Yes. How much? Oh, myself? Yeah.

Oh, yes, I work. I make $70,000 a year. I'm a surgical nurse. I'm married. I have a dog. We're doing just fine. This situation is a strange one. It's very sad. And you're in fact right. I lost mom, dad, and a sister. Yep, yep.

And even the closure with your mom and her ashes, you know what I mean? Like that would probably be the step I would take of trying to get contact with your sister. But you have no way to even know where she is, how to get in touch with her. She is off the planet at this point. Correct.

Yes. She had three cell phones. She changed the last number and has not responded via email. We did have a lovely funeral for my mom in church. She attended that funeral, but since then, she has taken off with the ashes and all of the money. I

I don't even understand that part. That just feels so strange. Well, I mean, Olivia, honestly, if I were in your position and as much as you can find the closure in it, I would. I would. So sad to say you close a chapter in a book from your family. But she's I mean, she sounds crazy the way you presented it to us. Like she sounds crazy. Dangerous. If you did. Yeah, that's right. I mean, she stole like it's like it's immoral the things she has done. And so if I were you, I'd create I mean, not that you have to even draw boundaries because there's no relationship there. But I mean, I

I would in my heart just, there's a level you got to just say, all right, that I'm done. I can't, I'm not going to keep fighting and in this wheel, because even that with the inheritance and all of that, it just muddles the piece of what's happened with your parents, you know, at that point. And so for you, Olivia, I think it's in the healthiest retrospect for you to, to move on. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's book on your past, change your future to help you grieve all this.

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This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Rachel Cruz, who is also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour. So if you're looking for some fun, some levity, some entertainment with a healthy dose of financial teaching, kind of, it's kind of a... Do it all. Yeah, a spoonful of medicine, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. That's right. I think that's what Smart Money Happy Hour is. That's what it feels like.

And people are loving it. Kids listen to it. They're like, I listen, my 10 year old loves it. And then people are like, I'm 75 and I love listening to you guys. So something for everyone with Smart Money Happy Hour. We're all there. We're here for it. So check it out this weekend. You can binge all the episodes that are out there every Thursday. All right. Claire joins us up next in Seattle, Washington. Claire, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely. What's going on?

So I'm turning 18 years old this year, and I really, really want to learn more about investing and where to start. I work as much as I can with school. I have some money in my checking account, some money in my savings account, but I've heard so many different options about investing in an IRA, doing real estate, all of this, but I'm just turning 18, and I really want to know what you guys recommend for young people looking to start investing. That is awesome. Way to go. Well done. So you're graduating soon?

I'll graduate in a year. I'm going into my senior year this year. Okay. And what are you doing for work? I work at a small cooperative in my kind of small town. It's like an agriculture store almost. Okay. And what do you make there? A little over $16.50 an hour. Cool. And how many hours are you working? It usually fluctuates week to week between 16 and 20 hours. Awesome. Way to go. And is your GPA solid?

Yes, 4.0. There it is. You're amazing, Claire. Because I was just thinking in my head, Rachel, you know, people who work 15 to 20 hours while in college have a higher GPA than those who don't. And there we go. And you proved it. Okay, so you are a rock star, number one. Do you have any debt? I do not, no. And how much do you have in checking and savings? Savings, I haven't really been sure what to do with it, so I have maybe around $700. In my checking account, I have over $3,000.

Way to go. Gosh, you're doing so well. Okay, so I would set aside a little bit of that for kind of a starter emergency fund for you. Obviously, you don't have a ton of expenses now. Are you living on campus or on your own? I still live at home. I'm enrolled in a local community college. So I live at home and it covers my tuition. So I am still at home not paying anything for that. That is awesome. Great job. Okay, so let's talk about investing. I think the Roth IRA is your best bet right now.

Okay. Invest into that in a good growth stock mutual fund. You can diversify it across the four types that we talk about. We have a great investing guide on our website. I'll make sure Austin gets you a link over to that that can help kind of unpack this at a deeper level than we can do on radio. But I think trying to, I don't know that you would max it out with the income that you have, but getting to that Roth IRA and consistently putting money away is going to be your best bet at 18. Okay. Okay.

I don't think you need to worry about all the other stuff and all the noise you're hearing. You can stick to a Roth IRA. Once you start your career, you'll probably have an option for a Roth 401k, and that's another great place, and start doing 15% at that point. Yeah, once you graduate, Claire, I mean, having some cash on hand is...

between graduation and entering the real world and career. It's always good just to have some because you may be moving. Who knows what kind of, you know, if you take a job. It could be deposits. You might need to get a car upgrade. That's right. Repair, maintenance. Just kind of having some cash for that transition, just thinking through that. And then once you kind of get settled, which I have a feeling you'll probably settle pretty quickly because I think you know what you want in life. You're very proactive. So once you, yeah, have that first job and you're settled in to where you are and you're

got your first apartment, whatever it is, and you're renting, that's when, yeah, the 401k would, I would look into something like that. But for now, I'm with George. I think having cash on hands

and looking at a Roth IRA, I think it's going to be your best bet. Yeah. And if you want to help setting that Roth IRA up, you can get connected with one of our SmartVestor pros, which they don't work for Ramsey, but they are vetted investing professionals that we trust. And if you go to RamseySolutions.com, click on Trusted Pros, you can connect with one in the Seattle area, and they'll get you started there. Way to go. Awesome. Let's go on to Brandon in Dallas. Brandon, welcome to the show. Hello. Can you guys hear me? You sound great. Yes.

Awesome. Hey, I have a question. My wife and I have gotten ourselves in a really bad spot. So we have about $250,000 in consumer debt. That's credit cards and personal loans. We're just not sure what to do. We don't have enough income to pay all of our minimum payments. And so we're not sure if we should file bankruptcy or just

to stop paying until we can afford to settle or we're just not sure where to go from here. What caused y'all to go $250,000 in credit cards and personal loans? Well, it's everything you guys say not to do. We,

I decided, I should say, to flip a house and then buy two more houses with a lot of leverage right when interest rates went up. And we ended up taking a really big bath on these three properties. We lost money on all three of them. I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's definitely been tough. And on top of that, during that time, I was so focused on that that I'm in real estate and my production is

Pretty much went to zero during that time because my mind was just so wrapped up in that. So that's where we're at and we're just really not sure where to go from here. How old are you guys? I'm 28. My wife is 27. We have a two-year-old daughter and we have another that's going to be arriving in October. Oh my gosh.

It's wild, Brandon. If you're familiar with my family's story, that little baby that's going to be born, that was me. And my sister was two years old when my parents filed for bankruptcy. And through real estate issues. I mean, dad did exactly what you did, but on a massive scale. And they called all of his notes and everything.

He, uh, if he was sitting here today, I think his empathy would be at the highest level because he was literally you, um, 35 years ago, which is pretty wild. So, um, I, I have such like a heart for those kids and your kids and your wife and all of it. Cause I know you guys are under a lot of stress and I know there's probably a lot of shame and embarrassment and you feel a lot of the weights. Um,

And so I hear all of that. So my question would be, how much did you make when you were in real estate and your head was not all over the place with these other rentals and you were so focused on it? What were you bringing in? So, I mean, I would average probably somewhere between $9,000 and $10,000 a month. My wife also works. She brings in about $5,000 to $6,000 a month.

Okay. And what is the case today? What's kind of the average month for you guys? So, so right now she is still bringing that five to 6,000 a month. Um, I've just rededicated myself to real estate, um, as of last week. So right now it's, it's nothing. Um, you know, ideally in the next, if I'm realistic, maybe 90 to 120 days, we're going to start seeing some proof from all the work I'm doing today. Okay.

Yeah, Brandon, I don't think you're not bankrupt. But I would say catching up on those minimum payments is your number one goal. And Brandon, in your future here for the next...

probably two to three years, you're going to be doing more than just real estate. I mean, you're going to be doing side hustles at night. You're going to be exhausted. You're going to be exhausted because the amount of effort that you guys are going to put into this, because I believe you can, to get out of this hole, it's going to take a lot and you're going to be really uncomfortable.

And you're going to it's going to feel like a sacrifice because that's what that's what it's going to take to get out of this. And you guys have to I was gonna say promise us. I mean, more promise yourselves that you align in the sand is drawn. And for your kids sake, you will never, ever go back to this again.

that debt is off the table 100% because if you keep dabbling in it and Brandon, I'm telling you, you're gonna go right, you're gonna look up again, you're gonna be right back in this position. So you guys need a mindset shift, you and your wife and draw a black and white line and say never again, we're not doing this. And for the next three years, our lives are gonna look a whole lot different and it's gonna be really hard with those babies at home but Brandon,

you're going to be able to do this. You guys are going to be able to get out of this, but it's going to take a lot of work and a lot of sacrificing your lifestyle for it to put every penny possible to go towards this debt. Yeah. Brandon, you said it was 250 total. Yeah, but I do have kind of a wrench to throw in it. So, um, I guess two questions. Number one is total debt payments. We have around 6,000 on top of a living expenses of around 9,000. Um,

So number one is we're just not sure, like, how do we actually cash flow this thing? Like, what do we let go? Okay, here's what I'm going to do, Brandon. I'm going to gift you guys Financial Peace University and EveryDollar Premium to get on a plan. But looking at the math on this, it's just a math equation. Can we throw seven grand a month and be done in 36 months? It comes down to something that simple. Hang on the line. We'll get you those resources.

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This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Hey, if you're a fan of the show, which I assume you are, if you're taking the time to listen to us right now, we would love for you to subscribe to the show, to follow wherever you're listening, leave a review, be kind, and share it with a friend who might enjoy this show if they're looking for some hope in their life and their money. We so appreciate that. That is how we spread the word and create more impact.

All right, let's take some more calls here. 888-825-5225 is the number. Emma is in San Bernardino. Emma, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's your question? So my husband is a real estate agent, and he's been with a company for about three years now. But his boss is very inappropriate. He's had about three lawsuits against him for sexual harassment. He only hires employees who are under the age of 25 and blonde and skinny.

Is his boss Leonardo DiCaprio?

This is wild. Yeah, and he makes really inappropriate comments about women, and he recently had an affair with an employee, and the employee got mad at him for whatever reason and sent out a huge email to tons of different lenders and other agents and just basically saying, ìDonít hire these people. Donít work with them.î

And I don't really want my husband to be with this company anymore because of his boss. Emma, how does your husband feel? What's your husband say about all of this? He kind of, I mean, we haven't really talked too much, I think, right now because my husband's making good money. I don't know if he will really be open to that, but I'm worried something major is going to happen soon. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. It feels like you want to stay in the band on the Titanic because of the money, but we can see it sinking. Yeah, that's the perfect way to put it. So I think he needs to see the writing on the wall going, this guy's got multiple lawsuits against him. People are trying to actively take him down. The money may be good now, but number one, at what cost?

Of your soul and sticking around with a guy of this level of integrity. And then number two, going, this money may not be around a year from now as word gets around in the real estate world. Yeah. Is he on like a certain, is he on a certain commission system? Because if it's like with a company or a brokerage, can he just, can he just change? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, he's had other agencies reach out to him because he is a really good real estate agent. He sells a lot. And that's usually, most of the time, that's where you're going to find that you make the money as a real estate agent is you, not necessarily the company. Now, granted, there are some more companies that will put marketing dollars behind you and all of that, but he's the secret sauce, your husband. So regardless of where he goes, he's

he'll be able to perform and yeah, continue to make great money. So my big thing, Emma is I would talk to, I mean, I would be talking to him about it and, uh, just make your feelings clear. I'm not comfortable with you working around this guy. Because of his integrity, like the guy is a creep and it's like, if he's a creep with other people, like, I'm like, Oh, I don't know. You just don't want to be around that. And is he doing weird business? Like usually when you have a lack of integrity in one area of your life, um,

Sometimes it spills into other areas. So I would even, I would just be worried from this guy's not even trying to hide it from like a cultural standpoint. It's really toxic. But then also who knows what he's doing behind the scenes with business and all that, like to keep the Leo and Titanic references going. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they've had their place vandalized because he slept with a married woman who was an employee and her husband found out. So like three guys he hired and came and just broke windows. So yeah, so the boss is one thing, right? But it's you and your husband that need to make this decision. And so that's what I want to focus on. And so the fact that you haven't brought it up to him yet or that it hasn't been a conversation. Yeah, I mean, I...

That's more of a, like a, okay, here's what's in my control is, hey, I can actually, whatever the boss decides to do with his life, that's his issue. But my issue here is that my husband is part of a company that is obviously just a complete...

They're not jumping on the lifeboat at all anytime soon is what it sounds like. Thank you for keeping the references going. You're welcome. So Emma, I would put your life vest on. Put the life vest on and let's find him another job. He's a fantastic real estate agent and that is the common denominator here. Not this magical agency. That's right. That's about to go under. And talk to your husband about it and the fact that you haven't yet. I'm like, hmm, I mean...

I don't know. That's interesting. If it bothered me enough to call a national radio show, it's going to bother me enough to have a conversation with my spouse. Yeah. So have that conversation, Emma, for sure. All right. Let's move on to Minneapolis, Minnesota. Jeremy joins us there. Jeremy, welcome to the show. Hey, George and Rachel. How are you? Doing great. You sound defeated, Jeremy. Great.

Have you just been waiting on the line too long? Oh, my gosh. Let's see. When did I start? Well, I'm in central time, so I started around 2. So I've been in here about an hour and a half, but not that long. So sorry, Jeremy. Sorry, Jeremy. We really appreciate the marathon. You really stuck it out there. Thanks. My admin will be sending you a bill, so it's okay. So I have more of a money etiquette question. So my wife and I, when we go out to eat, we usually pay cash.

And so let's say like this was a couple nights ago. We were at Olive Garden and our bill is $45.30. I leave $3.20 on the table. Server comes over. And to me, I just kind of assume like, you know what? It's kind of high. They'll probably just assume to bring change. Well, they go to just take it. And they're like, okay, have a good night. They take it.

And I'm like, wait, I'm like, you're bringing change, right? And then she got very kind of visually upset at us. And this has happened more than you would think when we go out to eat, like just constantly servers kind of assume whatever money's on the table, I guess they just keep. So all you got to do, Jeremy. Yeah, all you got to do.

It's like, hey, here's 60 bucks. Can I have some change, please? Like, do you just be proactive so that they're not wondering, right? Or just tell them exactly how much change you want back. Oh, you could do that too. Like, hey, we bring you a five. Yeah.

That's fair. So one time we were at a different place and so our bill was like, let's just say it's 35 and we had two, two twenties and or maybe three twenties. So we can't give them the 40 and just say keep because it's five bucks kind of lame. Um, and so then we gave him 60 and we're like, okay, can you break up this 20 for us so we can leave a tip for you? He's like, okay. So then he came back with change. So

So let's just say it was $35, we gave them $60. I would expect to get $25 back, but then they came back with like a $10 and two ones. Sounds like they're just not good at math. Well, yeah. Are they just factoring in whatever tip they wanted? But you're saying they're manipulating the cash system to bring you back a certain bill so that you leave the $10 bill. You can't, you know. Exactly. Yeah, I mean...

It's either in the situation you just ask specifically what you need. And I know you said, yeah, change, but say like, can I have two fives? Like you got to just be really, you could just be really specific or just leave them an extra $5. Well, that's what we did with the other kids. We're like, you know what? We don't care about this. This is a really silly solution, but you could just get smaller bills and just have those on you when you're out to eat.

Not just have 20s. That's fair. That's an option. I do that for my haircut. So this is a great example. I pay cash for my haircut to get a discount. I just went today and I go to the bank next door and I'll break the 20. I'll get a 10, 5, and 5 ones so that I can give him the exact amount with tip included. You don't know how much you're going to pay for the meal, of course.

But the idea here is you've got a five, you've got some ones. You've got some options. You've got some options. Yeah, because when we started doing this, I was like carrying hundreds with us. And I was like, okay, this is... Jeremy's balling out at Olive Garden. I love it. Yeah, but the problem is I feel very... I don't want to say bad. Don't. Don't be shamed. Yeah, don't be shamed into it.

We feel very shamed. That's a good way to put it. Because you're asking for change back, they look at it like, oh, he's so cheap. He doesn't want to leave us the 15 bucks. Well, right. And I think I hate, I absolutely hate being manipulated. So it's more of that case. Yeah, I would be proactive and say exactly what you need back. Communicate up front. Yep. And then that's their issue, Jeremy. As long as you're tipping well, you know, 15, 20 percent, 25 percent if it's great.

There's nothing to be ashamed about. And that's their, I mean, at that point, that's their problem. And servers love cash tips. So they should be grateful that they're not having to wait to get that, you know, at the end of the month in a check. So you're doing the right thing, man. Don't be ashamed. You're doing great, Jeremy. You're doing great. Release the shame. Yes. This is The Ramsey Show.

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We're back with more of The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Rachel Cruz. And it's your show, America, so give us a call. 888-825-5225. Melissa joins us up next in St. Charles, Missouri. Melissa, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. Absolutely. How can Rachel and I help?

We're hoping you can help my husband and I and our son make a very tough decision that needs to be made very quickly. Ooh. Yeah. Stakes are high. Yeah, it's high. My husband and I bought a car for our son in 2019. It was a 2018 Kia Soul for about $14,000 plus taxes and registration. During that time, we had...

Put a new engine in there. So we've invested probably another $6,000 in that car in the last couple of years. Last year, he was in a car accident. It was deemed his fault. So we put a claim through our insurance. They fixed it. But then this March, when it renewed, they dropped him.

So we had to go through a broker to get a new insurance, and it was at about twice the premium of what he was paying, but we had to do it. So you have to have insurance. So now he's got this new insurance since March, and then the unthinkable happens. Monday night, his car is stolen. Oh, my goodness. Oh, gosh.

Now we're in a very worse condition because the argument between my husband and I is, do we put a claim through because we know what's going to happen when that renewal happens next year, they're going to drop us. And then the insurance is going to go, his premium is going to go even higher. And we talked to our broker and he pretty much confirmed it. Yeah, it's going to go up. He doesn't know how much could be as high as 800 a month. He just, he doesn't know for sure.

So the tough decision we're trying to decide is do we do put the claim through and risk our son being straddled, strapped with a high premium for years until it drops off? He said it could take up to five years.

for the drop off or do we bite the bullet kiss that money goodbye for that on that car and pull money out of our savings um and help our son get another used car how much how much would you have been able to get for it like how much is it at we believe around 12 000 okay and he's got two thousand dollar deductible so we've been walking away with maybe 10 to put towards another car

The unknown factor is what the premium is going to end up being down the line. For sure. What are you paying now for the insurance? He's paying almost $300 monthly. He's 21, so he's at that high risk. So he's already paying high to begin with.

Well, I'm just going to do the math and go, okay, let's say, you know, have you talked to an outside, you know, third-party insurance agent to get an estimate on what this could be? Yes. This is the same broker that got his insurance just this March. We called him. And he's saying he could add $800 a month potentially? Or just up to $800? It could be. It could be because now he's got to go out and find someone else that's going to insure him with a second claim.

Yeah. And he said it could be as high as $800 a month. He doesn't know. Well, if it's $800 a month, absolutely it's not worth it because that's $10,000 a year.

Yeah. That you're now paying to file that claim to get 10 one time. But that's worst case scenario. That's worst case. Right. So that's where I'm going. Is there a way to figure it out without running the claim? I don't know that there is without actually running it through your insurance. Yeah. He said he could start doing some research for us, but I mean, he would have no way to know exactly what that amount is. He's just giving us the worst case.

So, I don't know. My husband feels like we invested so much money in it, that's why you pay premiums. We need to put the claims through. We need to recoup some of our loss. I said, yeah, but as a parent, do I want to strap our son with this huge, pretty possible premium? How did the car get stolen, Melissa? Where was it stolen out of? In a parking lot. In a parking lot, it got stolen. They just like hotwired it and took off, or was the key in there?

The key wasn't in there. I guess they somehow got in there and got it going. And you can't find it. I mean, it's gone. You can't find it. Police report and all that? Yeah, we did the police report, and unfortunately the police is not responding. We've been calling for days to get an update because we've never had this happen before. So we checked online. They said, oh, wait about five days. Sometimes it shows up. But we can't get the police to call us back to get any update. So we're going to assume...

It's gone. It's at a chop shop. It's gone. And he's got to make decisions because he's got a job that's already become inconvenient trying to get him to and from work. Sure. So that's why I say it needs to be quickly decided. How old is he? He's 21. And does he have any money saved?

Um, not much. A little under $3,000 saved. He doesn't have a job that's like a career job right now. He's still working at it. He's just not there yet. And do you guys have money to basically gift him a car right now? We do, but my husband's a little irritated because we've already done that once. Yeah, and there's a part two, Melissa. He's 21, you know?

Yeah, it's tough. He's got to get some skin in the game here. Yeah, I would want him. Well, he was paying us back. He paid us back for the motor. He was paying us back half of what the car cost. So he was contributing. Yeah. But it's just horrible timing. He wasn't done paying his half of the car. And it's just, we're just all just not sure what to do here. And I thought, well, let's,

Call the guys that know about money, what makes sense. Yeah, it's hard to do when the numbers are so variable because usually we just look at the math and go, is this going to ROI? Does this make sense to do from a mathematical standpoint? But there's too many unknowns here to say for sure do this. Now, if I'm in your shoes, I might just save up and get them a cheap used car.

That's exactly what the broker said. I asked him, what would you do if it was your son? He said, I would just get a cheap car. We're not going to get him a $14,000 car. We're going to get him a $4,000 car. You know, and I thought that too. And I started looking and then I realized, I remember Dave Ramsey said about, oh, it's COVID and these car prices are through the roof. And oh my gosh, they are. I couldn't find anything under 10 that didn't have like over 100,000 miles.

miles well it's I don't care if it has 160,000 miles find him an old Toyota or Honda I don't care if it's a 1999 those things will go forever and Melissa he and he needs to be looking too like I'm hearing you as the mom which I'm I get but also he's 21 I'm 20 he's 21 like he needs to this is his this is his problem

You know what I mean? Like you guys obviously are there supporting him. But I'm involved in every step of the process. I want him to be bringing you ideas. And maybe he pays half of the car and you go, hey, we're going to put in two grand. You're going to put in two grand. We're going to find you a four thousand dollar car. We're going to negotiate it off Facebook marketplace. You're going to take it to get it inspected. And I think that will help him see this car differently.

Okay, okay. Yeah, because I was just looking at dealerships. I mean, the first one we got is from one of the first rental places. Your options are going to be Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, and AutoTrader, and sort by lowest price in your area. Maybe even drive a few miles to go find this car. That's a good deal. And at that price point too, Melissa, it's amazing what just cash will do.

Go get $5,000 cash, bring it to the house and say, hey, here's what I got. And you may even get a good deal, right? I mean, I know used car prices are insane right now, but still, there's still some ways to get a deal and negotiate all of that. But it would be through more of it. It would be an individual, not a dealer. I would not go through a dealership. The dealers aren't messing with cars that cheap right now. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay. So my takeaway is you're suggesting if you're in our shoes, not do the claim, get a cheap car, and just keep that for a few years and then go from there. Yeah. And I'm going to still stay on that police report. I mean, cars turn up. It's crazy. And it may take a few weeks, but if it's not on the chop shop yet, it may just be sitting somewhere in someone's driveway without the plates on it. Who knows what they did. Yeah, true, too.

It's amazing how these things turn up. So still keep track of that, but at the same time go, how much are we willing to put in? Have him maybe come in with half of that money and have him start looking and have him make the decision. Okay. All right, you guys are wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's a tough situation. Goodness gracious. That's insult to injury.

And I'm like, you know, and I guess obviously the insurance agent knows, but I'm like, if it's, if it's, if your car is stolen, I mean, I guess obviously your insurance goes up. Like, that's one of those things where I'm like, is it your fault? You know what I mean? Because different claims, depending on the situation are also different. I don't know. So I'm not in that world, but it is frightening to think about that someone could just get in your car and take off.

I know. Wild times. Yep. Wow. Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to Austin, Kelly, Ben, James, Andrew, and of course, my co-host, Rachel Cruz. And who could forget about you, America? We appreciate you listening in. We'll be back with you before you know it. What does the future hold for business?

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm George Campbell, Ramsey personality, joined today by Rachel Cruz, best-selling author and host of The Rachel Cruz Show. And we're here for you this hour, answering your money questions, your life questions, 888-825-4255.

5-2-2-5 is the number to call. If you call and you're nice, Kelly will patch you through and we can try to help you take the right next step for your money. Is she the judge, Kelly? She's the judge. She's the holder. She holds the keys. Kelly's the filter. She's the DJ. Do I like you? Do I not? Kelly's confused. I don't know, Kelly. What do you think? Yay or nay? Well, Rusty is kicking us off. He's in Mansfield, Ohio. Rusty, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. And so I'm getting ready to graduate college here in May, and I'll be a pharmacist once I pass my boards. I'm 36. My wife's 32. I have a whole bunch of student loan debt, about $342,000 in student loan debt. Whoa. I have a

Yeah, I have about $9,000 in credit cards. We have about $34,000 tied up in cars. And then I have a personal loan from a family member, which kind of includes a house. They put down their house as collateral with a balloon loan. So we've just been paying the interest to kind of live here. Oh, geez. How much is that? Yeah.

The house is only $51,000, but in total with other money I owe her, it's about $97,000, $98,000. So what's the total debt that you owe? $482,000. Rusty, how are you feeling? Are you okay?

Oh, yeah, I'm all right. I'm more worried than you are. I listened to your show about a year ago and, you know, I felt like I needed to pursue the pretty big shovel because I was almost done with school. So I have a job lined up. I'll start. How much are you going to be making? Yeah.

I'll be making $108,000. And that's, I have a job that'll be seven days on and seven days off. So I plan on picking up another job. Good, good. Awesome. Is that your household income or is there more money? My wife brings home about $450 a week. What is she doing? What does that pan out to? What do you think she'll make this year?

She just started this job a few months ago, so I'm going to say maybe around 30 to 35, somewhere in that range. What is she doing? She's a customer service rep for a company. Is that full-time? Yes. Okay. Do you guys have kids?

Um, we do not. That's something else I kind of wanted to throw in there. Um, so she, we have issues, so we'll probably have to do like an IVF if we want to have kids. So, um, I wasn't sure if, you know, where that would fit in either because we're getting kind of older and it's coming towards that time or not at all. So totally. Wow. So how can we help today?

I just kind of need a plan of, I guess, where to start. So the house doesn't have to be refinanced for another three to four years before they call for that balloon loan. So I wasn't sure if I should pay on other stuff for three years or so. Can you get out of this house situation? Yeah. Is it the house that you're living in that has the mortgage and the loan and everything, or is it the family members? Yeah.

My mother put her house as collateral for this house because this house is technically worth a little bit more. So it's her house that is on the line, I guess. And how much do you have left? How much is left on the house? We've just been paying the interest, so the whole amount. Rusty, you're going to have to get... How much will it sell for? I honestly don't know. Because here's the deal, Rusty. Say again?

We got it in 2017, so it's been a little while. I'm sure it's probably, and this market went up a little bit. Yeah, probably has. So here's the thing, Rusty. You're in kind of an extreme situation with everything going on and the amounts going

of debt, which means in order to make movement, you're going to have to make some extreme moves. And we don't always recommend selling a home and that kind of thing to get out of debt. Because for some people, it's like, hey, you got $12,000 of credit card debt. And we're like, awesome, cut everything and pay it off as fast as possible. But you, I mean, it's a substantial amount, almost half a million dollars. And so if you want to start making some big moves, that's where I'm going to start looking first and foremost. It's like, where are the places that we can make some drastic moves and

And I know you guys want a family in the future, and that's amazing. And we can definitely talk about that later on in this call. But, like, you don't have kids right now. Nothing's tying you down to this house. Like, I would start eliminating stuff. And your cars, you got $34,000 of car debt. Is that between both cars or is that? Yes. Yeah, that's between both. Between both cars. What are the cars worth? $34,000.

So we owe about a little over $10,000 on one. It's probably worth about $12,000 or $13,000. And then we owe about $23,700 on the other one, and it's about worth $25,000 or $26,000. Okay. Well, man, if I'm in your shoes, I'm feeling a sense of urgency, and I'm going, we are selling these cars tomorrow, and we're going to drive beater cars. We are selling this house now.

next month and we are going to live somewhere that we can afford. And a one bedroom, tiny apartment. I mean, like, I mean, I'm talking, yes, making these extreme. This is an emergency situation. And the $9,000 credit card debt, all of it. So like, yes, what George is saying, and I totally agree with, like there needs to be this sense of, okay, in order to make a dent in half a million dollars of debt, we got to just make some moves. And so that's right. Selling the car, selling the house, and then mapping out a game plan. So you're going to make 108K, um,

but then that's every other week. So finding a job ASAP of what you can do every other week, your wife's making 35,000 in this market. Honestly, I think she can make more. I would be looking for a different job. Like I would be upping. I would be making huge lifestyle changes because when you do that, what's going to end up happening is you're going to, you're going to have all this other margin to throw at the debt. You're not going to, you guys are going to be living on nothing. Everything's going to be going towards that.

Because if you're not making these types of decisions, you're going to be in this for a really long time. And your pattern so far, Rusty, not to shame you, but your pattern so far of the decisions you guys have made with the credit card debt, the car loans, your mom taking out collateral on her house with a balloon mortgage, like

Your whole mindset has to shift. Like you have to have this realization. What we've done has not worked. So we're actually going to have to do the opposite of everything I thought I was going to do with money. And so you and your wife together, like making this, because what I would do too is, and sorry, George, you can jump in, but like it's having your why, what's your why. And for you guys to start a family and yes. And I, and we've had close dear friends go through this process multiple times.

friends go through the IVF process and it's long, it's exhausting, it's strenuous. I mean, there's all that emotion. And then obviously the prayer of being able to have a family on the other side of that. I want that to be your why, like, like sacrificing so majorly to say over here is what we want our lives to be in order to do that so well as stress-free as possible with as much money in the bank and

These are the decisions we have to make. Yeah, and make sure you're cash-flowing that IVF treatment. Don't go into debt for it, which means we've got to clean this thing up and use that why. Listen, your life at this rate is going to suck for 10 to 20 years. I don't want that for you. I want it to suck for two years because you got gazelle intense, you sacrificed, you did everything you could for your family, for that future kid.

That's what I want for you, Rusty. I'm going to gift you one year of Ramsey Plus. I want you and your wife to go through all the Financial Peace University videos, get a game plan, get on the every dollar budget, and start attacking this thing with a vengeance because your life depends on it. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes, if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. And listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally relax,

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Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. I don't know about you, but I love the new year. It's a fresh start and I get to reflect on the good things I want to keep doing and the not so good things I want to change.

And I know a lot of you are psyching yourself up thinking, okay, this year I've got to get my finances in order. And big goals like that are really exciting, but they can also be overwhelming. That's why it's so important to have a plan. So before you do anything else, start with a budget. Start with every dollar. I love every dollar because it's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month.

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Today's question comes from Nathan in Kentucky. I am 14 years old and I was just wondering what is a good way to try and become, to try and become at least a hundred dollar. Oh, oh gosh. A hundred million. Wait, a hundred million, a hundred millionaire by the time I didn't know that was a term. I wasn't sure either. Uh, I was just wondering because I discovered you guys on Tik TOK. I'll get us George. Uh,

And I thought to myself that y'all had good information and I just wanted to know if it's possible. Thank you for your time. Wow.

I'm doing the math for our friend Nathan here, Rachel. It's not looking good. $100 million. Do you want to know what it takes, Rachel? I actually would love to know. Okay, it takes, get this, you would have to invest from the age of 14 to the age of 30, and we're going to assume a 10% rate of return. Sure. Okay? Yeah. From 14 to 30, you would have to invest every single month $220,000. So there's the true answer, Nathan. Nathan. But because now your hope has been stolen from us. Yeah.

Let me give you some different advice. Do a million here. Do one million. One million dollars. To get to a million. Okay, well that's... So that would be, what did you say, $2,000 a month at that point? $220,000 was for $100,000. Yeah. So if we take it down to $20,000, that's $10,000. That's pretty good. I'm going to go $5,000 a month would get you to $2,000. So $2,000. Just about $2,200 a month. Okay, all right. From $14,000 to $30,000. Okay, all right.

That's still a lot of money for a 14 year old to be socking away. We're at least got a bullseye we can look for. Okay, so Nathan, I would encourage you to get beyond this like label of quote unquote millionaire because I think a lot of people believe if I just had this amount of money. Whether it's one million or a hundred million. Yeah, everything's going to just be

Be fine and I'm going to be okay. And the truth is financially numbers wise, there's a good chance. Yeah, that you, you know, that's really going to help you. But your money habits are going to be a big part of this and who you are as a person. Nathan is going to have a big part of this because there are people I would say that have millions and millions and are still very discontent people and they're still running this race and

acquiring, trying to find some level of joy and peace in life, and they're not finding it through money because money does not bring that. It can bring stability. It can bring you the ability to do things with your life that is fun and have experiences. That is all true. But there is, I would say, a bigger character question there of why do you want to have this millionaire status and why

to go ahead and bust the bubble that just because you reach that does not mean that life is suddenly going to be perfect for you. I feel like that's the myth out there, you know? Oh, yeah. If I can just do this and by 30, you know, there's like kind of that whole, the fire movement. And it's like, I'm not going to do anything with my life. And if this doesn't happen by this age, then my life is over and I've failed. Right, yes. It's insane. So I just, I rebuke all of the get rich quick,

even if it's with decent intentions and you want to do it the less risky way, there's just no good reason that any human needs to make hundreds of millions or even I need to have a million by this age. And the truth is, Nathan, if you follow the Ramsey baby steps, you're going to get there by 30. Your net worth will be a million dollars or more just by staying out of debt, stacking up cash, buying a home, getting the house paid off, investing 15% of your income,

over time, compound growth is going to take over and do the heavy lifting for you. So that's the not fun answer. But I do think we need a new book from Dave called Baby Steps 100 Millionaires. I looked it up. It's called Centi-Millionaires. Centi-Millionaires. That's right. Oh, so it is a thing. Centi-Millionaires. You have 100 million or more. I am not cool.

I wasn't your words, not mine. So I'm saying thank you for the Nathan. It was a good brain exercise, even if it wasn't a pretty wild question. It's good for you. The fact that a 14 year old thinking that way, he's going to be the world changer out there. Sure, because it's going to take being an entrepreneur to make that kind of money or even close.

you know you're not going to make that as a w2 employee likely but i wish you the best maybe nathan will be calling in at 30 being like hey just so you guys know i have 100 million i'm a wait what was it called again a centi-millionaire you know al termosi you know the super beefcake dude we've had him on the show and he's he's a centi-millionaire and he's an entrepreneur that's how he did it it's great and he's about my age so call me a failure many many do many do you're still working george you know i'm here i'm doing it i'm

I just do it because I love it, Rachel. I haven't had to work in years. I'm kidding. All right. Let's go to the phones. Einar is in Oslo, Norway. We're going international. We're going overseas. Here we go. What's going on, Einar? Hi, guys. It's such an honor to talk to both of you. I'm great. What time is it there? Oh.

Right now it's 24 past 9 p.m. All right. Thanks for staying up with us. Appreciate it. Thanks for the call. Yes. What's your question? Thank you. Okay. My question is how do my wife and I decide the amount and the amount of our personal items in the budget? So I'm a firm believer that, uh,

isn't always necessarily fair because, for instance, a haircut for her is much more expensive than mine. Unless you're George Campbell. It is the opposite in the Campbell household.

But yes, it's a good point. Yes. And you two are the perfect couple to answer this with a woman, a man, and a spender, a saver. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the amounts totally could be different. And I'll be honest, Winston and I, well, I think we may budget the same amount, but I spend mine...

every month. And Winston probably rarely blows through his fun money. Yeah, he may. I don't even, yeah. So, we probably technically could budget less for him and

he would be fine. But it's yours equal in the budget? Yeah, I was going to say, it is equal in the budget. You're making me question, why do we do that? Why do we not just correct it to what's reality in the Cruz household? I'm not sure. Because I don't think Winston would care if you lowered his amount. No. And if Winston wanted to buy something, like, yeah. That's how it goes. Once a year, Winston goes, I want to buy this, and he just does it. Yeah. He

He spends all of his money. Whereas Rachel's like, ooh, how much fun money do I have this month? Yeah, so I would agree. I do not think that it has to be equal. And I say that cautiously hearing people that are listening or watching us now that are not in your position because you're saying that yours would be lower than hers, correct? Yeah.

Correct. Yes. So I think that is that is totally fine. But I don't want some crazy spouse out there listening and being like, oh, my gosh, mine gets to be higher and you should lower yours. Like I heard on the show, they said the husband should be low. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't want to like create, you know, conflict between married couples out there. But if the reality is, is that you are naturally a saver and you're not going to spend as much as she spends, then.

then yeah, I think it's reality should reflect the budget. So I would for sure and not feel bad about that because you're right. I mean, as...

Technically speaking, women, I think, do spend more. George is the exception here. You got the right co-host. But here's the other thing. I don't have any hobbies. Except for your dogs and your hair. Exactly. And coffee. And coffee. But I don't go crazy there. Do you spend more than Whitney, though, a month? I wouldn't say in fun money. Because, again, I don't have fun. I went to a movie last night, and I was like, wow, I'm really living. Yeah.

That's it. So, Einar, can you give us a number here? Like, I don't know, what's the currency in Norway? Is it a kroner? Krone? Yes, correct. But to keep it simple, we can just divide the total amount in Norwegian kroner by 10, and we got the dollar amount. Oh, okay. We bring in around 6,000 a month.

And for the next month, we set up actually equal, so 200 each. But last month, we set up 454 and 200. And it worked out? It worked.

See, that's something we can deal with outside of this, but it has nothing to do with the budget. It's just she feels like it should be more equal and she feels bad spending, but the budget is permission to spend. It is, and it should be a reflection of reality. And the reality is, you know, what she spends per month is going to be more than yours. And that's totally okay, regardless of who brings in the money.

Put it all together. You say, what is our reality of our life? And that's how we're going to budget. Hey guys, no matter what your goals are in 2025, our new year's sale has tools and resources you need to get the year started strong with prices starting at just $9.99. Whether you want to make progress with your money, grow in your career, or create a more peaceful life, you can achieve your goals. And these books and products can help.

Shop the New Year's sale now at RamseySolutions.com store. That's RamseySolutions.com store. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls. And up next, we have Seth in New Orleans. Hey, Seth, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I mean, not to be too long with it, but 2018 rolled around and Dave came out to church nearby my house and went and listened to him talk. And, you know, I've been broke and working hard and decided that I'd follow him and be working hard, not broke. And over the last couple of years, I've worked real hard and put a lot of, you know, seeds in the ground and

this holiday had some of my family over and I have a new property and some new space and they wound up asking about the mortgage. We're working on some land and asked about the mortgage and I just kind of said I don't have mortgage on the property and then one thing came to another and it came out that we had a lot more money than my family had ever thought you could have and it's caused quite a bit of

quite a bit of a hum dig around uh the family so so have they asked you for money or are they just upset and envious that you don't have debt and you're not strapped with payments oh yeah no all yes all of it so they straight up said hey you're doing pretty well boy aren't you you got any of that money laying around for us like was it joking or was it pretty serious

no I mean we went out for a we have a mess of kids you know and so we went out one night for something and the ice cream was there and I was like you know you told my kids grab ice cream whatever kids grab ice cream wound up getting ice cream forever which isn't a big thing anymore and uh

you know like oh it must be not you know and then the next night they were saying you know we're going out to dinner my wife was the only one to dinner family over so like oh just the two of us will go out and oh you got us you can go too does it uh no i do not i do not have you so there's there's assumptions and entitlement now of like well he'll cover it because he's doing pretty well so he should cover it yeah and is this your direct parents like who who's involved here

Everyone. Yeah, no, everyone asked throughout the course of the two weeks after that. You know, they found out about... Aunts, uncles, cousins. Yes, sir. All of the above. Got phone calls and everything. Goodness gracious. It's like you won the lottery or something, but it's taking you... How much money do you guys actually have?

A lot. I mean, I don't know what a lot for everyone is. A lot for what I thought. My wife and I picked up, we stopped whining and started working, which is kind of our joke to us. And I don't know, we put some things together. And right now I think we did our net worth at the beginning of the year, and it was right under $4 million. Oh, my goodness. That's great. That is amazing. How old are you two? Yeah.

I'm 37 we're 37 so that's incredible and this is mostly your family not hers no her family doesn't know and and they're I mean you're like they're not going to we're not telling anybody else after this debacle oh they're good though they're all square they're not they're not my side they'll be like oh good for you is your family local Seth do you guys have like day-to-day interaction with them

Not so much right now, but yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay, but they're local and you guys usually would like kind of do life together. You do dinners together. They're a part of your rhythm in life. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Seth, it's about to get uncomfortable. How do you feel? Are you like pissed about it or are you confused with it? Do you feel bad? What's your overall emotion? Well, I was...

I was upset the first night. And so I ended up calling everyone together the next night. And I was like, listen, my responsibility is to take care of my wife and my kids. And I'm going to do that. And I, I, I told him I would put them through FPU, you know, and I wrote a list of all the books I read. I mean, I picked up majority all the books and, uh,

library's free, you know? And so I was like, I'll tell you all the books that are, you can read those, you know, I'll tell you what I did. They're not interested in learning. That's pretty bold, Seth. I was expecting us to have like a conversation about setting a boundary. You just did it the day after. So then how do they respond to that? They asked for you to pay for their dinner, I think. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much, you know, and they're like, well, if you don't have it or you don't want to share, you know, and it, it was just a lot of guilt. And so I've been wrestling with it for a couple months now and,

This is not Bank of Seth. Yeah.

That's right. Well, you've approached this with a lot of tact and wisdom and maturity, which I applaud you for. And the fact they're even willing to have the hard conversation tells me that there is hope here. But it may take a few of these conversations and enough times to where they get the hint.

And you know what? That might hurt these relationships. These people may not want to hang out and go to dinner because they have some own resentment that they, you know, some poison they've been drinking. Yeah. And so I don't want that to be a reflection on you. And it's going to be painful in some of these situations. But you have to do what's right for your family. And you can't let this generosity turn into requirement because that takes all of the joy out of it.

Yeah. And Seth, and just so you know, and I know you probably know this, but just to say it out loud, like you've done nothing wrong. Right. And I feel like what can happen is they can pin you in a corner where you feel like suddenly if you don't do something, you're doing something wrong because, yeah, do you have the means? Yeah, you guys do.

But you're an adult and you get to decide what you do, just like what you told them. Your responsibility is to you and your family. And what you do beyond that is up to you. But by you existing with this money, that is not a wrong. You're not in the wrong. And I feel like sometimes you can feel like, oh my gosh, I'm the one that's done something that's not good or not okay. And so just remember that, that you haven't done anything wrong. And the truth is, and George said it, but

it probably sadly will create a divide. And I wish that wasn't the case, but I feel like they've proven themselves after you set a pretty strong boundary and were very honest and clear. They chose to overstep that boundary and asked you to pay for dinner that night. So I think you have to have a realization too, and you probably already have, but you and your wife stick together as a team and just realize, oh my gosh,

sadly they they don't have the maturity to handle this part of your life that that you brought them into right by sharing this information um and that's sad because it it may end up causing a divide and stronger boundaries that you're going to have to set yeah no i i i agree the the thing that i kept pushing for was and they could do it too you know that's what was hard my heart was and i'm not trying to withhold from them i'm trying to you

you know, like I'll walk with you. I'll tell you exactly how I did it. I wrote it all down. You know, I'll keep my budgets in paper. You know, I can tell you how I did it. And yeah, there's a lot of luck and a lot of things, but you know, you, you, we could do it together. Like I'll help you, you know? And they're just, no, I'm not interested in working. I mean, he used to make fun of me in the beginning when I said, Oh yeah, I was going to follow Dave Ramsey. And they're like, no, don't, don't do that. You know, that's not going to make any money. I was like, all right. I mean, he seems to like his wife and his wife. I don't want to do that too. You know, like what,

Yeah, and that was my heart. I was like, they're not interested in learning. Entitlement runs far away from work. That's generally how it goes. And so I love the old quote. I think it's a Maya Angelou quote. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. And if they show their character that this relationship is based on transactions and your forced generosity, then it's not a relationship.

And they're choosing to opt out of that relationship if that's how they see you. And so the hardest part about all this is you grappling with the emotions of that. It has nothing to do with them. It's you feeling like I'm not the bad guy here. Because they're going to gaslight you and go, man, you're evil. I can't believe that. You're so stingy after everything we did for you. Remember when you were five and I took you? There's going to be all kinds of things that bubble to the surface now.

Yeah, that's what my, you pretty much nailed what my dad said. Yeah, 100%, hit him right on the head. Dang. Yeah. Man. It was an odd conversation. It's an odd place to be. But, you know, I don't know. I was thinking that maybe the best course would be

you know, bend the knee a little bit and just... Best course is, I don't know, flee the country and change your name, but let's not do that, you know? Go into the witness protection program. Yeah, the right course is have the hard conversations as many times as you need to, and then you need to draw the line and say, listen, we've talked about this several times. This is where I stand on it. I love you guys, but our relationship can't be based on transactions. Yeah, and again, they're choosing this. Like...

You haven't done anything. You've just done the hard work for five, six years. Seth is a good man. I know. And this is what is being exposed in them. And you can't control them as much as your heart is so good and pure and wanting that. You can't. And I think it's going to be, it's going to continue to create that divide. And you're going to continue not to want to let them into your life, which is so sad with family. So I'm so sorry, Seth. I hope you feel encouraged, though. You're doing good. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call in. We'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Dan is up next in Chicago. How can we help, Dan?

Yeah, I'm a pastor, and most of my ministry I've lived in a home that has been provided by the church. And I'm getting ready to retire, and my wife and I kind of feel like we need to buy a modest home in order to perhaps gain a little bit of equity and protect us from rising rents and things like that. That's wise. I'm sorry? That is wise.

I like that. Why? No, it's why. Sorry. There is wisdom in that, Dan. I like that. Okay, so you want to buy a house when you retire next year. Yeah. How much money do you guys have? Well, we're going to have about $2,000 a month after the Medicare deduction and Social Security. We've got about $350,000 in a 403B account, and we've got $50,000 cash left.

We don't have any debt. Just didn't know what the right move for us would be. Is it better for us to go ahead and spend the money on rent, or is it better for us to try to find a home that's within our price range and then take on a mortgage? Well, I'll give you the good news and bad news. The great news is you're going to retire with no debt and an emergency fund. The bad news is you don't have much money to put into a house as a down payment to be able to afford the mortgage.

Because you said your income is going to be fixed at $2,000 a month in retirement? Yeah, plus whatever we withdraw out of our 403B. And the 403B at $350, I mean, it's not a massive nest egg that's going to last us, you know, 30 years. And so how much money can you guys save in the meantime to get a down payment while you still are working? Well...

I'm we're saving right now about $1,300 a month. Okay. And I'm planning on working, you know, another 10 or 12 months. Yes. That'll be, uh, close to 15,000. Yeah. I mean, uh, have you looked at, uh, homes? I know it says Chicago on the board where you're from. Uh, I guess a suburb of Chicago. Have you looked at homes and what they're costing?

Yeah, we're really in a small town west of Chicago, and we feel like we can get a more than adequate home for us for, you know, in the 140, 150 range. Okay. Yep.

I would sit down tonight and, you know, pull up the mortgage calculator and say, hey, if we put, let's say, 50 down into a house, we had $100,000 mortgage, what would that be monthly? Because my concern is if you're living off of 2K and you're probably not going to be able to pull a ton off of that 403B while it's sitting at this stage at 350, because you would decimate it. If you took out 150 from that 403B, I mean, that's a large part of your nest egg that you've unplugged from future compound growth.

And so I would sit down to see, does it make sense to rent? Can we rent for, you know, 750 in our area versus the mortgage being 1200 bucks? That's the kind of math I'd be doing to see how can we live off of this income? Because it's not a lot of income to live off of just considering the two grand plus a little bit from the 403B.

Yeah. Okay. But you wouldn't say it a rent long-term though, George. No, long-term, I'd rather have you in a house. Yeah. But right now, it's just, there's not a ton of money to throw into the house and just purchase it with cash without just using up all of your retirement. No, yeah, and you may not have to purchase it in cash. He could put down payments. He put 50 down, took a $100,000 mortgage. Yep, yep. I doubt the payment would be astronomically high. But again, if you're making two grand and the payment's a thousand bucks, that's a lot of your world just eaten up by the mortgage.

Yeah. Well, I didn't know what my options were. Could you work longer? Could you do an extra year? I could, yeah. I'm not under any pressure to retire or anything like that. I might just, just to give you guys a little more wiggle room, allow your nest egg to grow, allow you to get more cash for the down payment. That would give me some more peace personally.

Because you guys could get close to, I mean, if you guys saved for the next two years, let's say, you could save up to 30 grand in just that cash flow that you're living off of, plus the 50 that you have. That gets you close to 50% of a 140 mortgage. You know what I mean? So your math is...

It can compound pretty quick if you do work maybe one more year. Yeah. And if I were you in your shoes and I would sit down with a financial advisor who can kind of crunch these numbers for you, but I wouldn't be comfortable taking out more than $1,000 or $1,500 a month out of that 403B because you guys might have another 30 years ahead of you that you need to live off of this.

Right. And so that's where the numbers come in. Yeah. How much are your expenses a month, Dan, for you guys? How much do you guys spend a month? Right now, probably about, I don't know, $28,000 to $3,000, something like that. Okay. Okay.

So, yeah. So I think what George was saying, that $3,000. And that's without paying rent. That's right. That's right. So then, yeah, that's $4,000. Let's pretend that the mortgage was $1,000. So that means you'll need $4,000 a month. And so you get the $2,000 that you were saying comes in from Social Security and everything and making sure that you can withdraw, again, the

We're just speaking on round numbers here. Napkin math would say taking out $2,000 out of that nest egg every single month, you'd probably run out of money while your expenses may be going up later in life. So that's my concern. I don't want you guys to be down to the wire every single year. That's not the kind of retirement I want to have. And so that's where we were saying pause, work longer, keep stashing away in that nest egg, stash money away for the down payment, and then see where you're at a year or two from now.

Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate your advice. Yeah, I hope that helps, Dan. Wishing you the best in retirement. For sure. And that's a common issue that we hear with people that do ministry and housing is provided. It's like, oh my gosh, that's great. I don't have to pay for rent or a mortgage. And then you get

to Dan's age, at retirement age, and there hasn't been an intentional saving towards a house. Yeah. And then you're kind of stuck. So if you're in that spot, here's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Whatever you would be paying, market rent, I would take that amount and put it away in an investment account for as long as you have that career so that when you do retire, you go, oh my gosh, we have 400 grand just allocated for housing. For a house. To go buy a place in cash. And always remember that...

your housing line item in your budget is usually number one, the most expensive and number two, the most volatile because rent especially will always be going up. That's what we've experienced right over the last few years. Like it continues to go up.

up it rarely if it never goes down and so 20 years from now dan's rent might be four grand exactly so if you like just say well i'm never going to buy a house i'm going to just be a renter for the rest of my life well that's one expense in your budget that's very expensive and will continue to go up variable versus saying i'm going to buy a home and i'm going to work to pay it off that's why it's baby step six we actually met somebody uh at the break george she just paid off her house on tuesday and someone else that paid off their house that was here for their 40th birthday in a row two houses

- There were houses in a row that were people paid off their house. - At very young ages. - Yes, and so that's the beauty is that line item again, is out of the budget. - So retirement has a lot more flexibility. - That's right. - When you get that house paid off going into retirement. So that's the goal.

Rachel, we've got a really fun little assessment on the website right now that helps people figure out if they're staying on track with the baby steps. You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. So here's how you get the Get Started assessment. Go to the show notes of this episode, the description, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? And you can complete the quiz. Yeah, and this is always helpful because especially if you're new to the show, a lot of people find us on podcast or YouTube and have been listening just a little bit.

you know, there to know kind of where you stack up against other other people, you know, other people, other Americans, but also against the plan just to kind of know where where am I? Like, how do I even start this process? It helps you really kind of get a baseline for it. And I think that's always helpful if you're, you know, money's an area for some people. They don't really think about it. They don't really. Yeah. There's 17 things at once. That's right. Yes. But so to get

actually a concrete idea of, okay, this is exactly the next thing I need to be doing. It's a great tool. So make sure to check it out. Can I tell you one of my secret gear grinders? Oh, I can't wait. When people say, so Rachel, we've been doing the baby steps just out of order. And I go, well, then you're not doing the baby steps. If you're investing and trying to pay off debt and saving and you bought a house while you're in debt, I'm like, don't say you're doing the baby steps out of order. Just tell me you're not doing the baby steps.

Just a personal little grudge there, George. You know, it's rare that I'm bothered by something. I'm kidding. George is not uptight at all. No worries. Not tightly wung. High standards, maybe. We're going to unwind him. Enjoy this Friday. We'll do that after this hour is over. For all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast, it is about to end. But you can listen to the rest of the show. We've got more to come over on the Ramsey Network app. You can finish the show in a distraction-free experience.

What up, what up? It's Dr. John Deloney from The Dr. John Deloney Show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. This is a free app for you to use.

This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now, here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app.

What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you're ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in. We're going to check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.

Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough. It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay. How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show. One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. How is this burden? A new burden, that's right. To the one person.

Who should carry it? All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. You either have to choose to let this guy love you or you got to choose to let this guy go.