There’s Always a Way out of a Financial Spiral
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Welcome to the Ramsey Show America. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your professional life, and win in your relationships. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-8000.

825-5225 825-5225 Let's get to the calls. You ready to go, partner? You got a little something in the throat there? A little verklempt, but I'm ready to go. Cleared the throat? Let me clear my throat, she said. Come on, Kim Coleman! We're already getting it started. We're going to have a lot of fun today, by the way. Just a sheer warning to you. We're going to have fun while we coach you up. Lauren starts it off in Knoxville, Tennessee. Lauren, how can we help?

Hi. I just have been tracking my budget for the last year, asking friends who have similar families as me living in the area how much they're spending on groceries every month. And I am over by a couple hundred dollars every month. I've tried to bring it down, but I just...

I'm not willing to compromise on certain healthy foods. And I've already made several compromises the past couple years. So I just want to know how much should I be willing to compromise on healthy food in order to keep a budget? Look, you called the right place. This is a great question. Isn't it? And I can't think of a better person.

to be sitting beside on this one because I'm in the middle here. You are. I don't know where I'm at on this. What are you going to say? I'm going to lean on you. I'll tell you what I think. So first off, I want to know what your numbers are. I want to know more about you before I go into it. It's not going to change my answer. I just want to know what are you spending on groceries? How big is your family? Family of four?

Yeah. So we are a family of four. I've got a five-year-old, sorry, a family of five new baby. He doesn't really count. So family of five, I'm spending $1,300 a month. And when we first moved here, I was spending it at a really nice store. And when that got too out of hand, I moved down to a store that didn't have as good of quality stuff. When that got too out of hand, I moved to a different one. So for some reason, I just can't kick the $1,300 a month. Okay. And what baby step are you on to?

We don't have any debt except for a mortgage, and we've got some savings. Spend $1,400. Hold on. Okay. Don't get too excited over here, Mrs. Clean Food. How much is your income, combined income? $1,400.

Just barely, we moved up to 120. Listen, listen. Okay. It doesn't change my answer in the way that, A. Well, yeah, what is your official declaration? My official stance on this is when you're working the baby steps, you don't sacrifice your health long-term for it. So getting out of debt is not an excuse to eat crap. It's not you eating ramen noodles every night because we got to live, Ken. We can't be out here with high blood pressure and the gout and all these things that hold us.

I love that you dropped. I love the gamut. High blood pressure to gout. I mean, you covered it all. I'm saying there is a logical point where it becomes unhealthy. I agree with you. But let me ask you this because you're the queen of cutting costs and you eat as clean as anybody that I know. I try. I try my best. I get to tell. This is my statement. Of the people that I know.

I don't know anybody that eats cleaner than you. Okay. All right. Now, here's the question. Yeah.

Is it worth digging a little bit? First of all, she's fine on margin and percentage. You're totally fine. But, and before you get into this, Ken, let me just back you up. Uh, Lauren, if you look at like the FDA standards for a family of four, it's usually somewhere between 800 and $1,200. Now they break it down on kind of a, uh, it's almost like a good, better, best, like for a less expensive budget. Uh,

a median expensive budget. And for people who can spend a little bit more, that's the way they break it down. And for the folks who can spend a little bit more, it's usually between $800 and $1,200. So you're right there. So here's the question I have. And Lauren, I'm asking a question on your behalf, if you'll allow. Okay. If you were going to sit at Lauren's table tonight and you were going to do an audit, where would you be looking to try to shave money off

On what is already a reasonable thing for healthy food, do you have... Yeah. And I'm not trying to get you to endorse anybody. No. But are you like, is it online? Are there different brands? Like, what would you be looking at to help her so that she can kind of double down and go, all right, I got some Jade hacks here to maybe see if I can save a little bit. Doesn't sound like she might be able to. I'd be looking for the convenience items. For instance, most people are looking to... Most people, if they have the money...

They're looking to save time, right? That's the next thing. It's like I can spend the money in order to save more time, right? Lauren probably has spent more money to save time. So I'd be looking for things that are prepackaged like snacks. Like when you have five kids, you want to just be able to throw the things in the kid's lunch, right? So you might buy the snack things that are prepackaged, the prepackaged things and nuts, the prepackaged, you know, that sort of deal as opposed to, okay, I'm going to buy the big Sam's Club

you know, package of, you know, cheesy smiles or whatever. And so I'd look for convenience items. I'd then look for, um, in the freezer section. So I'd be looking, okay, is she buying, uh, you know, frozen waffles to get breakfast on the table in the morning. So that's where our frozen waffles healthy though. Um, there's some that are better than others. Lauren, do you get frozen waffles?

No, everything I make is generally pretty homemade. Love that. We have chickens, we do sourdough. But for you, you're probably splurging in the area. I mean, I'm just guessing you're probably buying more non-GMO, more organics. Yeah, where's your biggest expense? What would you say is your biggest expense? We stopped doing it because it was so expensive, but I really, really care about buying from local farms and dairies because I like how they treat their animals better, and I think that the chemicals and things aren't in there as much. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think... But we stopped doing that because it was $10 a gallon. Yeah. You know, what you're probably going to find is it's their trade-offs that you're making. Even when Sam and I were in $460,000 of debt back then, I would spend $60 a week on groceries. Remember, this is back in the day. Yeah.

But those were what you're talking about. Everybody has a set of values that they care about, whether it's, you know, I don't want the red 40 and the yellow fives or, you know, I'm trying to avoid the dyes or I want to buy local or I care about organics.

You might not be able to afford to do all of it, but if you say for meat specifically, I really care about that. And because of that, I'm willing to skimp in other areas. It's a trade-off. But are you saying that Lauren can go back to that same budget? Lauren, this is why you called. I'm hearing Jade's okay with that number. Once you're in baby steps four, five, and six, right? And you're able to kind of...

not be in that like balls to the wall mode. I think that as long as you're doing the things that cause you to be a financially responsible adult, you're investing 15%, you're putting extra on the mortgage, you're putting away for the kids college. If you're still doing all those things and you have the margin and you say, yeah, I'd love to be able to split

splurge on this milk from next door or whatever. The $10 a gallon milk from Farmer Roy. I don't know. But I'm saying that's what, because some people will go out and go to a really nice meal at a restaurant and they'd rather do that. And so at this point, it's really about how you enjoy spending your margin and what the value set is for your family. You guys have worked hard, Lauren, to have this margin to then eat for life.

I like this. This is really fun. And I got to tell you, I'm telling Laura, I'm telling you, I'm telling the entire audience. Tell us. Guess what I signed up me and Stacey for in February? Wall Pilates. A sourdough class. Oh. I'm going to go learn how to make sourdough and I get to come home with the mother. Is that what they call it? Did I get that right? In more ways than one, Ken. Well, two mothers. Two mothers.

Come home with two mothers. Come on. How exciting is that? I'm so excited. So you and Sam got to come over. Guess what I'm going to make for you guys? I'll take whatever loaf you give me. Sourdough pizza. I'm going to make it on my big Kamado Joe for you. I'm going to hold you to that, and I want all of the discard. I'm learning how to make sourdough. That's good, Ken. Keep me posted. Blog about it. Yeah. But I'll tell you about it.

All right. Quick break. We're just getting started. We're having a blast. We're going to help you out. That's probably one of my favorite calls that I've had in a while on the show. Really interesting. Don't move. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. Yeah.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us alongside my friend Jay Borshaw and Ken Coleman. And if you're ready, you're finally ready. Some of you have been listening for a long time, some of you for a little bit, some of you brand new. Welcome to all. But if you're ready to finally make change in 2025, this is the year. You said, all right, we're making changes.

This is a must. January 23rd, we've got our free live stream, Take Control of Your Money, hosted by Dave Ramsey and my friend, Jade Warshaw. Jade, I feel like I shouldn't talk about you when you're right here. You guys were meeting. I walked by the other day, and I heard you guys having a meeting. Yeah.

This thing is on the rails. It's ready to go. It's out of the oven. It's baking. What's it going to be? January 23rd. Take control of your money. You and Dave got some fun cameos as well. Why should people come to this? This is where you get the how-to.

This is where you get the practical steps. Jade, I'm ready to do it. Just show me how and I'll take the ball. And so that's what we're going to do. We're going to show you how to get control of your money once and for all in 2025. We're going to walk you through how to make that happen, how to do a budget, how to pay off your debt. We'll talk even a little bit about investing. So this is an event you don't want to miss. And to wrap it all up, we're going to do a Q&A at the end. Rachel Cruz is going to join us. George Campbell is going to join us. And we're going to take your questions and

from you live and help you out right where you are, meet you right there. Now, they should be charging you fine folks for this, but they're not. Free. Free.

It's a free event, and this is really cool. When you sign up for this free event, you also are entered into our cash giveaway. That night, or at some point, five people who actually attend this free event, this live stream event, will win $4,000 each. So you sign up at ramseysolutions.com slash live stream, ramseysolutions.com slash live stream.

And or you can also click in the show notes to go to this event. And I don't know why you wouldn't do this, because for some of you want to kickstart your goals. Yeah. Coming to this event will do this. However, for large. Listen, if I slide four thousand dollars over here to you right now, Ken Coleman, what are you spending it on? What's it going towards?

Well, if you're sliding it over there, maybe it's Dave's money. It's Dave's money. I'm just sliding it your way. It's a fun night out. Maybe try to squeeze in a budget weekend trip. Okay. Yeah. Maybe I spend it on Valentine's.

All right, Stacey Coleman. Listen, let me know how it goes. I mean, that's a pretty fun little trip. $4,000 is nothing to sneeze at. That could be something that pays off your debt. That could be you finishing out your emergency. Of course. So that was my answer. That could be you finishing up your emergency fund. Maybe you're in baby steps four, five, and six, and this is what will get you over to do your little kitchen remodel. It's worth it. Sign up. That's all I'm saying. All right. Sierra's up in Atlanta, Georgia. Sierra, how can we help today?

Hey, how are y'all doing? Good. How are you? Doing good. So me and my husband, we're actually in baby step two. We just learned that his parents have money put up for us. So we're about to be able to wipe out all of our credit card debt. And I've heard you guys say, just put the cards up or shred them. Yeah.

Do we just like let them fall off of our like credit or do we close them? We're both a little iffy on that part. Cut, cut them up and close them. Do the both. Done. You don't need them anymore. How much money is this that you're getting? So right now it is $14,000, but then they're going to add an extra $4,000 on top of that. What's it for? Why are they giving you this? I mean, that's a blessing.

It is. It definitely is. My husband has the company that he works for. He has got his parents' company in to do some work for the company that he works for. So they've been doing really well working together. And so this is just a thank you to him.

Nice. Thank you. So here's what I want to caution you about. I love when people get big sums of money, whether it's an inheritance or a gift or just something goes their way. But the cautionary tale here is there was a habit that got you into $14,000 of credit card debt. And we want to make sure that we're examining those habits and what caused that to happen because

While it's really great to get a gift like this and be able to pay off that debt, the worst thing ever would be to not change your habits and over time accumulate that kind of debt again.

Right, yeah. So the only credit card debt that we have is about $8,000. On top of that, we have two car loans, a side-by-side loan, and then personal loans. So the rest of that will flow over into our next one, like the baby steps. We're going to take all those credit card payments and just loan over. See, now in this case, and I love your call-out, Jade, but I think in this case,

So Sierra, I'm commending you and your hubs for putting the entire 18 grand towards the debt snowball because that in itself is a pain. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like when you, when someone gives you 18 grand, you go, Ooh, and you gotta go, Oh, there it goes. And so they'll feel it. They'll feel it. And, and so you guys are on your way. This is a real blessing. I mean, Jade chose the right word there. This is such a kickstart to this. What will be left?

in your debt snowball once you apply the 18? Run those numbers. So what's going to be left is about $127,000. But that includes the house? No, we rent. Oh, okay. Well, then can you tell us about the cars and the side-by-sides? Maybe we can give you some more help that you didn't come for. Yes. So the side-by-side, we still owe about $20,000 on. Okay. What's it worth? My car.

I have no idea. My husband deals with that. Okay. What about the cars? My car, we still have 32 on it and it's worth about 23. His truck, we owe 45. And I think the last time he checked, it was worth between 18 and 23. Oh man. Why such a hit on these vehicles? Yeah.

Yeah. Is that rolling negative equity? What's going on with that? Is that what happened? Yeah, that's negative equity right there. That's why we haven't gotten rid of it. Listen, I would. One thing I would consider before you pay off these credit cards, I might consider getting out of these vehicles because tell me the payment on both of them.

So my truck is about $550 a month, or my car is about $550 a month. His truck is about $817. Man, oh man. Let me tell you something. That's a $1,500. I would consider getting out of your car that $10,000 that you're upside down. I'd pay it and use whatever cash you have left or even less cash.

to get a beater for you, $5,000 or $6,000, and then you cleared up $550 you have a month and you're out of that debt completely. Is $550 more than what you're paying on those credit cards combined? So monthly on all the credit cards combined, it's about $344. I do the card deal.

I'd get out of that money towards the car. I'd get out of that upside down vehicle. Cause it's, it's just going to continue to go down in value. And that gap of being upside down is going to get wider and wider. So I'd make that deal and get out of that car. And then I'd be really thinking about how to get out of his, um,

Look for private sale to see what it's worth private sale and see if there's anything you can do to close that gap. And it might be the side by side selling that side by side. If you can get something for it might help you close that that gap. But these vehicles are what's killing you. Oh, yeah, I know it. I know you do. You're like when you told me 18 for this forty five thousand dollar truck. That's shocking.

So, yeah, it's it's somewhere in between there. He's looked. I've looked and I'm like, I don't know what to do. We're going to have to pay out more. So, yeah, you might end up having to just write it out and pay for it. But check on the side by side. Make sure you're checking Kelly Blue Book again on that truck for private sale just to see, because at the end of the day, here's the way you want to filter it through your brain. Ken, if I have a if I have a loan for forty five thousand.

but I can come out with a loan for 18,000. I'd rather have...

I'd rather owe 18 than 45, right? So when you're thinking about, do I take a loan to get right side up on this vehicle or to get out of this vehicle, it could be worth it to you. You know, it's not making it gone completely, but if you can do that and still have another 5,000, so would you rather owe 25 than 45, right? Now you got yourself a $6,000 beater and you're out of the vehicle, right? So that's the way I want you to filter through this math. It's not always going to equal zero, right? It's just going to be, is this a better situation for me?

Yeah, to lower that monthly so that you can put more money in the snowball. That's right. That's what you would prescribe in there. That's right. All right, very good. All right, quick break, and we'll be right back with more of The Ramsey Show.

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw, and I'm just going to cut to the chase. If anyone knows about paying off student loans, it's me. Okay, my husband and I had $460,000 of debt, and $280,000 of it was student loans. So I know the pressure that you feel when you have that debt weighing you down. But I also know there's a way out because we did it, and you can too. Getting out of student loan debt starts with taking control of the situation, and Laurel Road can help.

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Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. We're here for you. We want to help you win with your money. We want you winning in your professional life, and we want you winning in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Let's go to Boise, Idaho. Bryce is joining us there. Bryce, how can we help today? Hey, how are you doing? Good, Bryce. How are you? Good. How can we help? So...

So last spring, I graduated from high school and I worked throughout the summer and then went straight to college due to some family issues. I didn't want to be home. And so I'm starting college. I'm past my first semester and I'm absolutely hating it. And I'm not sure I really want to continue going to college. And now I have debt and I don't know what to do. Okay. How much debt do you have?

So I took $3,500 in subsidized student loans and $2,000 in unsubsidized loans for just this year, plus some scholarships. So I have a total of $5,500 in student loans right now. Okay. It would more than double next year. Right. Well, I don't think there's going to be a next year. Don't you agree? I mean, we kind of know that. So I want to encourage you first. $5,500 in student loans? Yes.

cake. Okay. Not fun. I'm not minimizing how it makes you feel, but in the grand scheme of things, you being able to pay off $5,500 in the near future, extremely doable. And we'll talk you through that. I want to talk about the transition. I heard you say that you went to college essentially just to escape a really not so great family life. True? Yeah. So you kind of made this decision on your own. Is that also true?

Yeah. All right. So you can also make the decision to leave on your own and no one's really giving you grief about it or it doesn't matter, correct? Yeah, I do agree for it, but it's not really something I care about. Right. In other words, your mom and dad didn't pressure you to go to college, yes? No. Okay, great. So I'm a big fan of not going to college in two instances. One, if the degree...

isn't the only way to do what I want to do, or if the degree isn't the best way to do what I want to do. In this case, you're presenting to Jade and I as though you don't know what you want to do, but I got a feeling you might have some ideas. Is that true?

Some, but not too positive. All right. Give me the most positive idea you got. The top of the list. We know it's not your favorite list. We know it's probably not going to stay at the top of the list, but I'm just curious right now, what's at the top of the list? And let me put it to you this way. I really want to know at the top of your list,

is. And then, okay, if we were guaranteed we'd be successful at it, would it still be on the list? So I'll ask you that in a second, but I'm preparing your brain. So first, what is at the top of your list? Some sort of fly fishing guide up in Montana, probably. Fly fishing guide in Montana. Fantastic. All right. Now let's ask you that question. If I guaranteed you

And in a snap of my fingers, you were going to be very successful at being a fly fishing guide in Montana. Would you pack it all in right now and head that way? Or would you still have questions? No, I would leave everything and go do that. All right. Now, so then tell me.

Then what you meant by, well, I got a list of ideas, Ken, but it's not real positive. Is it that it's not positive because you think it's a long shot, dare I say, a fantasy to become a successful fly fishing guide? Is that why you said it wasn't positive? Yeah. Okay. What makes you believe that you can't be a fly fishing guide in any state but Montana? Just oversaturated. There's a whole bunch of them and

And I want something I can do full-time in a career, and they don't pay too good. Okay, great. Great answer, young man. Now, why is it that fly fishing is at the top of the list? Describe why, and give me 10 seconds. Don't make it sound pretty. Just tell me your guts. Why is that attractive to you? I've been doing it for five years, and it's something that my grandparents got me into, and it's...

just one of my favorite things. Yeah. But would you say you also love being outdoors? Yeah. Would you also say that the idea of wearing a white collared shirt and khaki pants and working in a cube sounds like misery? Is that true? Definitely. All right. You love nature, hunting, fishing, I'm guessing. Is this true? Yeah. All right. So you know what I would be doing? I love that you've already gathered information that the fly fishing guide industry is pretty saturated and, and for a variety of reasons, which we don't need to discuss, uh,

it's very hard to make a living. However, would you say that there are multiple ways for a young guy like you who doesn't need a ton of money to get in and get started in other, and let's call it

field and stream type stuff to borrow a magazine uh title you know whether it be the hunting or expeditions but anything that is outdoor whitewater rafting for to fishing to hunting does it have to be fly fishing for you to get the same thing you get out of fly fishing yeah yes it has to be i would say so yeah yeah why can i ask why it has to be specifically that

I like being out in the woods, but everything I do, every time I see water or something, I just have a connection to plasticine that I don't really have. So you're telling me you couldn't get involved with anything else on the water in some type of stream or lake or something like that? Can I cut in? Yeah, I know what you're thinking. Go for it. Can you cut in? This might be something that came with age, Bryce. I'm an old head, but let me tell you, when I first started in music...

I had I knew I liked entertainment. I knew I loved being on stage and I knew I had a voice. And so my options, I didn't know all the options out there, but I thought that I was limited to one or two things that would make me happy in that career.

then something that happens and can you probably have the tech, the vocabulary for this. But what I found is as you start walking down a road and you start turning those door handles, other opportunities present themselves and you try them out and you realize, Oh gosh, I never would have known that this would scratch that same itch and really be a better, a better fit for me down the road. And so I'm just saying you, you do want to open up your, your eyes a little bit to other opportunities.

Yeah, Bryce, you're going to have to take some advice from your older bro and older sis on this one because we've been down this road. And I understand at this point in your life where you go, that one thing I really, really love is fly fishing. And when I'm doing that, I'm at peace. By the way, that can still be true, but it might be a hobby. It might be a hobby. It might be a little side hustle. But if I were you, I would head west, young man.

And I would start working for an outfitter. I'd start working in that industry fishing because, you know, part of me wants to go, I think you could be pretty happy if you head down to Florida and you were on one of those deep sea fishing boats and you're helping people pull a big old giant whatever out of the water. Deadliest catch? Yeah. Well, now that's next level. You're going to scare the boy. You're going to scare him. But Bryce, I think you have to, here's my point. To summarize this, yes, I would drop out of college.

You don't have the money for it and you don't have the need for it. You don't need a degree to do what you want to do. And at this point in your life, you need to be away from family anyway. And I think there's some wisdom that you've got. I think you've shown some maturity there. And I would go explore and I would jump from, in this case, I'm fine with you jumping from job to job, thing to thing in that industry so that you figure out, because Jade, you would have never guessed in a million years

that you would have gone from where you went, artist, volleyball player in college, you're all over cruise ships, and now you literally co-host the second largest radio show in the world, one of the top podcasts in the world. You didn't see yourself sitting at this desk ever. It was never in your bingo card. Never. We evolved. I thought I wanted to be a recording artist, and then I got an opportunity to work on cruise lines, and I tried it, loved

it. And what did it do for you? Why would it help him? You see, you went on cruises and sang as a professional. Yeah, I did. And I fell in love with it, but I also saw a lot of needs in the market there, and it sparked an idea to start a business. And it's the business my husband runs to this day. It's his passion in life. Never would have gotten to that. And that helped me find The Ramsey Show, and it's what I'm doing today. So we evolve as people. It's great to take that first step

you know, spark and run with it, but you never know what it'll grow into. And Bryce, hear what she just said. You don't have to start a business tomorrow or next year. Just go work and go work in that world that you know you love. It's similar to fly fishing. Don't limit yourself, but get in that area. And I promise you, with connections, it's going to take off. Hang on the line. Chrissy, let's give them a copy of my best-selling book, The Proximity Principle. This is a great read for you, young man. This is The Ramsey Show.

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to 3 3 7 8 9 or you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash survey ramseysolutions.com slash survey or we've got a link in the show notes if you sign up uh to take the survey you'll be entered to win a 500 gift card that is our appreciation to you all right to the phones we go michaela is joining us now in salt lake city utah michaela how can we help hi how are you guys doing good how are you today

Good. My question is, we recently...

Found out through my sister-in-law, my husband and I, that there is inheritance money we did not know existed through my husband's parents who got it from his grandma. And he's one of nine siblings, and all of them have used, that we know of, have used that inheritance money for paying for grad school.

and we did not know this was available, we paid our way through grad school. And my husband graduated about three years ago. And we are in between baby steps three and four trying to save up for a house. And so we feel a little, I don't know. No, you feel a lot. Whatever you feel, it's a lot. Wait, are you in the will and it just wasn't distributed to you or were you not in the will to get it?

We're not sure. It just slipped through my sister-in-law this past weekend on a family trip that

grandma's inheritance money paid for her husband my brother's um my husband's brother to go through grad school and we asked oh is this the same for all other eight siblings and she said yeah you guys didn't know i'm like no we we paid our way through grad school who's the executor who's the who's in charge of it

Probably, I would guess my father-in-law. Okay. Have you gone to him? Well, not you, but has your husband, because I feel like this is his battle, by the way. Has he gone to the grandfather and said... No, to his dad. Yeah, to his dad and said, did I miss something? And here's the thing, and Ken, hold me back, but...

You can't go in entitled. You just have to ask. You'd be curious. Hey, I was on a trip and this was what I found out. I don't know, but it sounded like it was for everybody. And if it is, I wonder if we, you know, we're overlooked in some way. Can you give me more information? Yeah, I guess that was part of my question. We have not approached him yet. Because I don't want to come across as, you know, needy or. Well, remember, you don't need to be involved in this.

This is not your deal. Your husband, now if you've got to give him a pep talk and fire him up and let him borrow some of your backbone, that's one thing. Yeah, but you don't say anything to the in-laws on this. Okay. Because is it possible that the sister-in-law doesn't know what she's talking about? It's possible. I guess that's part of the issue is

They're quite a bit younger than us and they own two properties and we are like... No, no, I get all this. First of all, I don't... Wait a second. I detect something and I'm not trying to call you out, but I detect the air of... I'm not going to say jealousy, but I detect an air of...

we should have what they have or they shouldn't have does that make sense I'm not I'm not trying to put you on the spot but yeah so let's talk about this then let's pretend that you said hey we're not in the will what gives like what if you talked what if your husband talks to the dad and it's like sorry yeah you weren't a part of this what what what then would your attitude be

towards it. I think I'd be okay with that. Okay. No, you wouldn't. You would not be okay with being the only, your husband being the only sibling who didn't get some of this inheritance. I mean, you'd at least have questions, right? I would have questions, but I don't think, I honestly don't think I'd have, I wouldn't ask any further. Okay. Yeah. But I just want to call this out. I know you're going another angle. You call it out, Kim.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I think she kind of admitted to it. I couldn't hear her. But Michaela, it's very natural for you to feel this way because your husband feels, though, he might be wronged. And when your husband or spouse, this goes both ways, gets wronged, we the spouse. We're on their side. We just really get affected. So all of this is very normal. Glad you called us. We've already told you what we think, but your husband needs to sit with dad and soon.

And just ask questions. This is what my wife was told. Is this true? He gets to the bottom of it, and then you guys will have to deal with whatever that is. But make no mistake about it. Her comment about the younger sibling and what they have. That was telling. It's telling, but it's all coming from this one issue.

It is. And, and I think that when you're in baby step two. We could use it more than them. That's what this is. Yes. That's what I'm getting at. When you're in a tough spot, you're looking around and you're just kind of looking for anything you can hold to. I get it. Yeah. We're not, I wasn't saying that in a way to be, uh,

Definitely not ugly towards you, but it's worth examining and going, okay, to your point, Ken, what's my true feelings here? And it's okay to have feelings. We then just have to make sure our response is the right way. And that's all I'm saying, Michaela. I want you to feel okay to be angry. Yeah. Because if this is true, you and your husband have every right to be angry.

Ken, I've told you the story before. When Sam and I got married, his grandfather, there were stipulations on the will. And he's allowed to make those stipulations because it was his money, right? And so the stipulation was, you got to marry someone else Jewish. And guess what? Jade Warshaw is not. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you not know? I'm just, what gave it away? No, I'm just kidding. But that was part of it. Did he uphold that? No, he did not get the money. And so. I mean, he stuck to his guns. The grandfather did. Well, the grandfather passed away. So what ended up happening later on. Oh, that's right. Later on. Yeah, it's in the will. But later on, his wife at the time said, I really like Jade and I'm going to, we're going to make this happen.

And she amended it. They got amended. And not only for me, but the other cousins who decided not to go that route. Yeah. Hey, cheers to her, by the way. I don't know. Listen, I don't know if it was right. Dave might be like, no, keep it the way, you know, the wishes are the wishes. Oh, wait a second. I don't know what Dave would say, but I'm not Dave.

And I got a strong opinion on that. If the grandfather leaves the money to his wife, yes, he had explicit instructions. But at the end of the day, he left it to her. She was very... It's now hers. She was very solid on the fact that if he had... She said, if he had met you, he would have changed his mind. That's what she said to me. I think she's right. But my point is, it's now her money. Yeah.

She gets to decide what she's going to do. That's facts. Because he passed it to her. That's facts. Yeah. Yeah. So I can understand, to your point, I can understand the feeling of having emotions around the thing. Tough stuff. It's not easy. Yeah. But in this case, and this is what I don't like for her, I don't like that sister-in-law dropped that. Yeah. On vacation. Yeah.

Do you think there was a little intent behind it? Is that what you're saying? I don't know, and I don't want to go that route because I don't think that's helpful to Michaela. What I am saying is...

I would immediately go into the father if I'm her husband. And because we don't know if sister-in-law knows what's going on with the nine other siblings. You know what? It's very possible. Or excuse me, the eight other siblings. Unless she knows of a reason he could have been withheld, which we didn't ask her. Doesn't make sense to me. It's very possible he just got overlooked. I don't buy that. Whoever the executor is just, you don't buy it.

Well, you know, now that you say that, I have three kids. Yeah. And I remember telling Stacey, like, because we had three under the age of three. That's kind of happened quickly for us. Yeah, it did. And I remember going, as they got older, going, boy, I'm glad we didn't have more than three. I don't understand how parents who have like six and seven and eight and nine, how do they do it?

Now I can see maybe, maybe this happened. Maybe there's some money just sitting over there waiting to be collected. Maybe he's the middle child. I don't think so, though. Yeah. All right. Good hour. Thanks for the call, Michaela. This is The Ramsey Show.

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I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is joining me. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number. Let's start in Casper, Wyoming. Marissa is there. Marissa, how can we help you?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are working on baby step number two and realized that we might be paying some stupid tax. We started at $133,000 in debt about six months ago and have paid off $16,000 already. However, my husband and I disagree about what we should do with our lease vehicle. Our original plan was to finish paying off our lease and then purchase it outright. That would be $42,000 in total.

My husband thinks it's a good idea to get rid of the car by selling it back to the dealership and paying the difference of about $9,000. Doing this would help us get out of debt eight months sooner, but I'm worried it would leave us in a vulnerable state because we would only have my husband's old truck, which needs about $5,000 in work and has $440,000. I'm sorry, 440,000 miles. So my question is, should we get rid of the lease car to get out of debt sooner? Uh,

Uh, yes, but not necessarily with the idea of only leaving you with that old truck. I think it's a combination of both of it. So you say if you finish paying out the lease, in order to purchase it, is it an additional $42,000? Or is that what it will be, have been altogether? Yes, so the $42,000 will be altogether. It'll be $26,000 after the lease period. Okay, so you'll pay an additional $26,000.

Yes, ma'am. For a total of 42. And then to get out of it, you will pay $9,000, but you'll be only left with a truck that's got 442,000 miles. So what would it look like if you got out of the lease and then you got a second beater and paid maybe $6,000 for it? And so now you're back to two vehicles, but you're still $10,000 less debt.

And I'm just talking about on the extra portion of the lease, not the. OK, so we did. We reached out to the dealership. Originally, we wanted we tried to try one of the lease swap options. We've had the car for just a year, but we've already used two thousand dollars worth of miles because we planned on purchasing it. The dealership did offer us twenty eight thousand dollars.

to basically get the car back. And again, we would have to pay the 9,000. We do have 9,000 saved. So we're kind of stuck there. My husband also works from home and he has a work vehicle as well in the event that he needs to travel or go anywhere. Okay. So he has a work vehicle plus the old truck.

Yes, ma'am. And my point of view of it was like, you know, why would we get rid of the car? You know, we're already on plan to get out of debt in two years. The car is already factored into that. But my husband is like, oh, well, Dave would say get out of the car because you're going to, you know, save $42,000. And my kind of question. Well, you've already sunk half the cost in. You've already sunk more than half the cost in. So I see what you're getting at. Let me ask another question to get at it another way. What's your income combined? Yeah.

So it's $160,000 yearly. I don't work. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have three boys. Just had a set of twins a year ago. They're 18 months. So it's only his income. He makes, again, $160,000 yearly. And after tax, it's about $9,500 monthly. You know, you have options here. Neither of you are wrong. It's just what you guys decide to do together.

Because you are on the track to pay this off in two years or less and because it's no more than 50% of your annual take-home pay, I'm inclined to say you could keep it. You've already sunk a lot in. And honestly, when you play out the difference, it's a $10,000 difference. It sounds like if I'm doing the numbers as quickly as I can in my head. Yeah.

It's up to you guys. And at the end of it, you're left with a nicer vehicle, a newer vehicle, and then you've got the old vehicle, then you've got the work car. Whereas if you were to get out of this, like I said, in order to really get into something, you'd be paying $9,000 plus maybe another $8,000 for a vehicle. So the difference is pretty negligible. It's pretty negligible. I'd probably keep it. Ken? And are you saying that, well, I agree with you, but are you saying that because of momentum?

I'm saying that because the pay, the. You can go either way. I agree. But why did you choose keep it? Because they've already, I'm saying because in order to keep the car, it's as if they were going to go out and buy a 26,000 car today. Like if she called me and said, hey, I owe $26,000 on this vehicle. I'm filtering it like that. So if you called me today and said, you know, I owe 26,000 on this. I'm $9,000 upside down. Mm-hmm.

what would you do? I'd say keep it. 'Cause it's essentially, mathematically, it's the same thing. You'd have to pay the $9,000 difference and you'd have to get some cash aside to get you a beater. And once you add all that up, it's gonna be a $10,000 difference. And so you could say anything to get out of debt faster. I'll take, you know, $10,000 is better than, you know, oh, and one 23 is better than oh and one 33. You might say that,

But because your timeline is regular and you've got a good income and there feels like there's momentum here, I'd keep it.

bit. And that's where I'm leaning. Momentum is the deciding factor. With us both agreeing that either or, that's fine. But there's a momentum play there. And to your point, 10 grand in the grand scheme of things here. And knowing that she said, listen, the other car, they know $5,000 of work is coming up. It kind of just, it felt like it was eating away at that margin even faster, if that's true, if that's accurate. All right, let's go to Jaden in Albany, New York, see if we can get a call in here. Jaden, how can we help?

Thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. So I'm getting ready to be, I'm going tomorrow for a job. I start in two weeks. I'm going to be traveling. I have to cover my own hotels. Would it be worth it to get like a little tow behind camper, no more than $5,000 instead of paying for hotel rooms every week? Yeah. What are you estimating your hotel spend will be?

So I'm going to be staying at each job site for about four to six weeks. So from most hotels I know of are around the $80 a night for what I'd be looking for. Yeah, probably if that's what I was looking at, you start running the numbers on $80 a night.

So with the tow behind, normally we're not fans of RVs and things like that. But in this case, he's saving a lot of money. I feel like that's a good move. Unless I'm missing something, you start running the numbers on those four to six weeks. If you run the average five weeks, that's seven nights, right? So you're looking at 35 nights times $80, and you're doing that multiple times.

Yeah, I probably would do something like that. Are you paying for it outright or are you going into debt for it? You'd pay for it outright. You'd pay for it outright. How long are you going to be doing this job? Is this what you do for four to six weeks out of the year or four to six weeks every six? What's the frequency that this is happening? I'd be working in the Albany area. Some weeks I would be working in Florida. Some weeks I'd be out in Washington State.

I'd be a boiler for the Boiler Makers Union. Uh-huh. But you said four to six weeks. Is that for the whole year or that you're doing that? No, it could be four to six weeks, go to another job site, four to six weeks. So he's going to rack up some money pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not into those things because they go down in value, but I would be looking for a creative solution. Let me put it to you like that. Well, a little $5,000 one that he pays in cash. Yeah. And it saves him thousands of dollars long term.

Yeah? Yeah. Boys, staying in $80 a night hotels, I'd rather stay in something that I know. Yeah, I know. You know what I'm saying? You seen an $80 a night hotel lately? And I am telling you. I'm not going. Got to get out those Lysol wipes. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade. Look, let's be real. With everything that's been going on, staying on track with your money gets tough. Between bills, trying to pay off debt, saving

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in cash. It's a giveaway. Imagine what you could do with all that money. All you've got to do to enter the giveaway is to sign up for the live stream. That's it. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash live stream and sign up today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me and we're here for you. 888-825-5225. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. Student loan debt is a swamp.

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My parents both work and I'm fortunate that they have provided well for my sister and me. They have always planned to pay my way through college like they did for my sister. The problem is that I want to pursue a career in medicine. I know that it's extremely expensive. I know that it's an extremely expensive choice and I don't want my parents to be paying off my education forever.

I will start applying to colleges soon and have applied for scholarships, but was wondering what else I could do as a 16 year old to start earning on my own to help them pay for my education. Anything and everything. Yeah. When you're 16, you kind of got a wide open list.

But you also have a lid, right? Yeah, yeah. So there's like certain things you're just not going to get. So that's everything from I'm bagging groceries or working at my grocery store. I am providing some type of specific services, babysitting, right? That's a good one. I am pressure washing. I'm cleaning trash cans. I'm scooping dog doo-doo. I remember years ago on the Ken Coleman Show, I shared a story of a 14-year-old who started a pooper scooper business in his neighborhood.

And bought himself a $14,000 boat. Holy smokes. Wow. 14. Went around and said, hey, do you have dogs? If you do. I'll get it. And you're tired of scooping the poop. This is what I charge. I come by every week. And he just went door to door. And, you know, there's a combination there of moxie. And some people are like, I'm going to help this young man out. Yeah, sure, sure.

But then there's just a thing where you went, you just eliminated something that every dog owner wishes they didn't have to do. They love the dog. I love my dogs. Let me tell you what I don't love. Pooping the scoop. Yeah. Pooping the pooper. Like what can a 16 year old do? Anything that you can do, do it. Yeah. At this point. And you've got a wide array of things. Your hourly jobs, working for companies. Scholarships. Yeah, scholarships. Full time job. You know, I would just get after it and set a goal. Set a goal.

that's reachable, reach that goal, and then start upping that goal. In other words, it could be intimidating for anybody, but certainly a 16-year-old to set a goal, I want to make $30,000. No, set a goal for, I'm going to make $10,000 as quick as I possibly can.

Get a little poster board out. Stack 500 there. I stack 1,200 here. Make the little thermometer. Yeah. And I think that's what I would tell. What would you add to that? Because you're very enterprising. I love what you said, Ken. I think that's exactly right. Yeah. I think applying for scholarships becomes your secondary full-time job. Yeah. If working is full-time, there are so many scholarships out there. And now you're still young. You still have time to add things to your scholastic resume. Yeah.

to be eligible for more, if that makes sense. So I think those two things combined. I also think sitting down and having a conversation with your parents about what the parameters are, what the limitations are. If I'm going to medical school, what does that mean? What can they afford to pay for? And is that the type of schools that you're looking at? So really having clear expectations is going to be a big part of this as well. Yeah, love that.

All right, let's go to Jerry now in Kansas City. Jerry, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's going on? I'm a little nervous. You're doing great. I'm 57. I just want to know what I need to do to retire. I put a little bit into the work retirement. I think it's got maybe $30,000 in it. I only owe $27,000 on my mortgage. $27,000. What's the house worth? I've been working...

What's it worth? Uh-huh. Maybe $150,000. Okay. I don't know. I mean, honestly, I've had it for a while. I just got divorced in the last seven years, and I'm just trying to get things straightened out. What's your income? $57,000. And do you have any debt at all, other than the house? I do not. Okay. And I do have my three- to six-month emergency fund. Great. Okay, good. What do you do for a living? Um...

I work for the state of Kansas. I'm a barbershop inspector. No way. That's cool. How many barbershops does one inspect in a given week?

Honestly, it just depends on what part of Kansas I'm going. If I'm going to a city or going to western Kansas where it's all windchill time. I do the whole state. Well, I'm going to turn you over to my colleague. She's got her retirement calculator handy, ready to go, and she can walk you through that. But one of the things I would just kind of put in your mind to think about after this call and over the next couple days is...

How can you increase your income? At 57, I think you can... I know you can. But at 57, I'd like to see you dramatically increase your income. I really would. And what I mean by dramatically is I'd like to see you try to get it to six figures. Now, you may have to do that through two jobs. Yeah. But...

I just think you've got this opportunity right now, have such low expenses, it sounds like to me. You have no debt. You almost have a paid-for house. You're in a position now that if you— My expenses are about $2,000 a month. Exactly.

Exactly. Okay. I have about $1,000 a month to play with right now. And that's just right now. I am really in favor of you. Jay's going to give you some real numbers. But I would circle a number, and I think Jay will help you at the end of this call, have a number in your mind and go, if I earn this much and I put all that into retirement, I think you'll be surprised what she comes up with. And with that, I pass the baton. But I want him making more money because I think he's got a chance to really make up ground. Yeah, I agree. So right now you said your budget is...

You're spending $2,000 per month, but you've got a margin of $1,000. So $3,000 is what you're living on right now, right? My bring home, yes. Yeah. Okay. So the idea here is, the idea is when you retire, whatever that nest egg is, there's a couple of things here. You want to be able to live off the interest rate.

And not really have to pull from the principal, right? That would be ideal is what we're looking at. And then the other part of that is the way that you make that an even less stressful situation is you just lower your general expenses, which you've done a really good job of doing. And paying off the house would be like kind of the final nail in that tree there. So tell me again, because I was putting numbers in, your house is worth $150,000. Did I hear that? Yes, I would guess. And what do you owe on it? Yeah.

And what'd you say you own it? 27. Okay. So you'll be done with that in no time. But to Ken's point, you're going to have to increase your income because at this point, if you're just investing 15%, like we say off that gross number, if you continue to do that, let's say you stop working at 68, you're going to have about $260,000.

And if we're talking about just living off the interest, 10% of that, that's not a living for you, right? So we need to essentially double that. So if you do what Ken said, and then you go from putting $712 a month

into retirement and you go to putting $1,400 a month into retirement, well, suddenly that doubles what you have there and you're closer to $450,000. Do you see what I'm saying? So this really is an equation that is tied directly to your income. It is at this point. And the great news is, Jerry,

you have such little expense and you sound like you're very frugal. So this is increasing your income. Yeah. And here's the deal. A guy like you, you know, that state job, I'll bet you, you know, I know you have a lot of travel there. I would start thinking about transitioning out of that. Um,

Um, but I know you probably love those state benefits and you're probably counting on some of that, but I would really look at that experience that you have being an inspector, your detail guy. I just think kicking the tires to see what, what other career path similar to that kind of work, but in the private sector would pay, uh, and, and, or, uh,

part-time work or contract work because if I could double my income and you were to put the doubling away, you're going to really be comfortable. Yeah, especially for you. You could...

at one point you'd be able to invest beyond the 15%. I agree. And that's going to be a huge free because listen, social security, we don't know what's going to happen with that. We already know in the next 10 years benefits could be significantly less. So we don't want to depend on that. Yeah. But you can do this, Jerry, that the best is yet to be for you. But I do think it's setting your eyes a little higher on income and invest in yourself.

And I think it'll be very, very, very stable. All right, quick break. We'll be right back with more of The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, folks, we all have stories. The family and cultural stories that we were born into. The stories of the things that have happened to us, both good and bad. And the stories that we constantly tell ourselves.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We'd love to help you. Jade's going to lead out on any of your money questions, and I'll lead out on your income questions. We want to make more money so that we can actually do good things with it. As we've said on this show for many, many, many years, your income is your greatest wealth building tool, and I want to help you win at work so we're making more money. So,

call away and we'll do our best to help out. Luke is going to start us off in Atlanta, Georgia. Luke, how can we help today? Hey, how are you guys doing? We're doing well, Luke. What's going on? So my wife and I graduated college. We both borrowed money.

about a hundred thousand in student loans. Um, and now each of us, like just the, over the course, um, of it, we've, we've got about 200,000 each in debt. So we've got about double, it's a doubled, um, interest, um,

and just trying to see about refinancing, just what options, just some guidance. So just to clarify, you both borrowed $100,000 each, and over the course of time, both of your $100,000 have doubled, and now you owe $400,000? Is that correct? Yeah, yeah. So it's, yep, that sounds right. How much time? I'm just curious. Okay.

Um, so we, we got our associates, um, which took like a, you know, like two years and then, uh, finished a bachelor's, which like, uh, was two and a half closer to like three years. Just like how the semesters worked out. But it doubled in that amount of time. Yep. So over the course, so I don't know exact like specifics of my wife, but, um, like myself and it seems like a bunch of people that I, I know, um,

They're in the same, like, you know, it's because your interest, your payment isn't covering the interest. And so your, your loan is not moving. You're, you're paying payments, but your loan is not moving. The total is not. So I, so my, my minimum, my minimum payment is 2,800 and something. And, um, that's only, I like did the math and I'm only pay, it's only 500, only 500 of that.

is going towards the principal. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So $2,300 is going to interest. Tell me about your... Yeah, listen, this is a lot of debt. We're going to help you out. Tell me about you guys' income because I'm hoping that you've got some jobs that are paying. Yeah, so I'm a pharmaceutical rep. I make...

Like my base, I make about $130,000. Okay. But I am projected I should make over $300,000 this year. Okay. What about your wife? Excellent. My wife, she stays home with our daughter, and she's currently pregnant again. So she'll be just a stay-at-home mom with our children. Well, let's see about that. So what was her career before she stayed at home with the kids?

She was an office manager for a dental surgeon. Okay. And what did she earn doing that? Probably like 45. Is that what her $100,000 degree was for? Yes. Okay. So there is a part of this equation. We'll get to it in a minute. There is a very real part of this equation where she would be working for

In order to help out with this. And there might be a daycare situation. Because you guys have a lot of debt. I was hoping that you were going to say. You made $300,000 and your wife made $200,000. You making $300,000 is really, really good. But just the $400,000 in student loans. I'm guessing there's debt other places as well. Am I right? Yeah.

No, we rent. I have like a car. Yeah, tell me about that. Like payment. I just, it's, I put zero down. I have the good credit. Yeah, but tell me what do you owe on it? It's a, what I owe on it, I think I owe like $28,000. Okay, what about your wife's car?

It's paid for. Okay. Anything else? Credit cards, HELOCs? Tell me any other debt you have because it plays into this. Just student loans and then just my car. Okay. So 428 is what we're looking at. You're making $300,000.

So this is kind of like the person who makes $60,000 a year but owes $160,000, right? The ratio is the same. So there is going to be a level of sacrifice if you want to get out of this quickly. You could talk to my friends at Laurel Road. They offer student loan refinancing for high-income earners. And so you have the opportunity that maybe you could get a lower payment at a lower rate. What's your rate right now, your interest rate? So I have 12. Is it 12? Yeah.

different loans. I think, I think I have 12 because I went, you know, like I would, I went like spring, summer and fall. Yeah. But,

They're all different from 11. Yeah, like they're anywhere from 11 to say 11 to like 14 and some change. Listen, I talk to them because a lot of what they're offering is 5% and lower. So I would do that. I'm not saying that it'll happen and that you qualify, but I would definitely look into that.

Because for you, it sounds like you could actually be a good candidate for that. Because what I'm looking for, what I'm always looking for with student loans is a way to lower those minimum payments so that you can focus more of your freed up money on the smallest debt and knock it out. Because with these student loans, even though you have this grand amount, it's still, like you said, broken into a bunch of littler loans. So if you do the debt snowball, which is what we teach,

you're listing all of those little loans from smallest to largest. And you're knocking off the, that's right. We already have, we actually, um, in high school, we did a Dave Ramsey, like a, like our math class. We had the whole, you know, we did like took the whole Dave Ramsey course. And, um,

Yeah, so we already have over $10,000 saved, but the payment's so much that if you don't pay more than just the minimum payment of $2,800, you're going to pay on it literally forever. That's right, and if you're not satisfying the interest...

within your payment, you're going to pay forever and you're not going to see the loans go down. Because have you seen your balance go down? You told me you've seen it go up. I've just seen it go up. That means that is a clear sign that you...

A, had it in forbearance for a certain amount of time and the interest continued to accrue or the ratio of your payment is not actually satisfying the interest. So the way to get out of that is to make sure your payment really would be your payment getting higher so that you're satisfying the interest and you're paying it off because money's going towards the principal. So again,

I rarely say this, but I would contact Laurel Road and see if you can get a lower payment. And the point is not, the point of a lower payment and lower interest is not so you can keep your debt around forever and be comfortable with it. The point of it is so that, like I said, you can have the margin to pay it off faster. And you're right, a $2,800 minimum payment. Listen, Luke, I know how that feels. You know, my husband and I had 280 of student loans, but 460 total debt.

So I get that feeling. I'm right there with you. The good news is you've got a good shovel. I do think that it could be worth talking about your wife going back to work. I don't know what the timeframe or horizon of that is, but the solution to this problem is a lower, lowering your expenses, which let's talk about that for a minute. When you make $300,000 a year,

in your mind you should be driving the tahoe you know what i'm saying like in your mind you should be going i don't know to a nice steakhouse into in your mind you should be going on vacations but that's not going to be the reality for you right now um i i want to lean in on something you just said something i think it's good luke if your wife if you could just snap your fingers based on her degree what she's done in the past what could she make ballpark be conservative if she went back to work tomorrow we had something sitting there waiting for her what how what do you think she could make

Probably 80 to 85. That'd be a huge difference. Bro, I'd have that conversation because let's say you put every bit of that take home to these student loans. You're paying this thing off a lot faster than you think. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's what I actually just talked to her about that. And, you know, just, you know, the irony of this is she's a business economics guru and I am an economics minor. And, you know, just going through school, we didn't qualify for any...

grants, help, or whatever. The only way we were getting through is doing it. And then you're like, well, that was a bad idea. Yeah, you guys are poster children for this racket. The federal government...

soapbox warning, federal government has turned itself into a bank. It was never intended to be a bank. The student loan program, make no mistake about it, is a bank for the government to make money off the backs of the people it is supposed to serve. And this couple is an example. So I'd get real aggressive, try to knock it out quickly because this stuff, you just don't want it hanging around forever. And please, if you're listening to this, don't go get a student loan. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by

by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. That's ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is joining me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We'd love to have you join us. So every day, we take calls on The Ramsey Show, and we don't know

What happens after we hang up the phone? Did they take our advice? Sometimes we go, maybe they shouldn't. You know, who knows? We don't always have great days, right? But this is fun. The latest episode of 90 Day Money Makeover is now available on our YouTube channel. Episode two features Sean and...

And is it Dara or Dara? Dara. Dara, who just cut their income in half after welcoming their new baby boy. And now Dara is working part-time. They're going to have to make other significant lifestyle changes to continue paying off debt. But they don't have to do it on their own because my partner over here,

Jade Warshaw is walking alongside of them. This is so fun. This is kind of like your version of Extreme Home Makeover, huh? You're kind of getting in with folks. Listen, I'm... Sitting down with them. I'm just guiding them. Cameras rolling. Coaching them up. They're the heroes. They're the ones actually getting in there and making life changes. And really what I love most about it, Kim, is...

It's real. Like this is not a scripted show. This is not a, you know, full makeup hair and makeup show. This is we're going into real people's lives into their house, you know, and seeing how real things play out. Because the truth is you get the advice and then you sit down and you sit at the table with your spouse and go, OK, what are we going to do? That's it.

That's the truth. And you pick on the list of tough things. You go, okay, let's do this one. Let's do this one. Maybe we're not ready to do this one yet, but we'll go. That's real. Yeah, absolutely. Very few people. I mean, I don't know. I feel sometimes that if we write a prescription-

I don't know everybody that follows it to the T, but you can still make a lot of life change in a short period of time. So we did that. Sean and Dara, you got to watch it. Their income went from $200,000 to $100,000 when she stayed at home with their new baby boy.

And they made a lot of sacrifices to pay off a good amount of debt. So I won't give it away, but take a look at it. You can find it on the Ramsey Network app, but you can also find it on the highlights page. Ramsey Show YouTube channel, 90-day money makeover is what you're looking for there. And this is really fun, so this will really inspire you. By the way, speaking of the Ramsey Network app, it's the only place to get the full episodes. That's three hours.

of the Ramsey Show. That's the only place you can get all three hours. Download it for free using the link in the show notes or searching Ramsey Network in your app store. If you're on radio, don't worry. After this segment, we continue our third hour. So again, the Ramsey Network app, only place to get all three hours of the Ramsey Show. All right, let's get to Mianca in Washington, D.C. Mianca, how can we help?

Hi, I'm a single mom of two, four and nine month old. Bless your heart. I have a mortgage, a car I'm upside down on.

Uh, yes, I have credit cards, um, student loans that I don't currently pay on. To be honest, I don't even know what the status is. Um, and I just am looking for me to, and I just downloaded the every dollar and started filling out the budget.

I'm cutting out things like Hulu. I've just deactivated it, which is hard. Good. I mean, I am ready to take those hard steps, but honestly, childcare in this area is like the Wild Wild West. Uh-huh.

I do get help with one daughter, but the other one, I'm solely on my own. So I'm looking at $1,700 a month. I make $115, but after like healthcare for all of us and everything, it just seems like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even... So...

Okay. Take a deep breath because it is a lot. Just take a deep breath and blow it all out. Okay. Good job on the income. $115,000 single mom. Bravo. That's very good. You're right. Child care is expensive. $1,700 for the one feels... Now, I'm not in your area, so I don't, you know, maybe I don't know, but it does... No, that's $1,700 for both. Oh, for both. Okay. That's good. That is good. That is good. Good. Good.

When you do your budget, when you put it into every dollar, what did you find? Were you in the red? Yes. Okay. How much were you in the red? About $700. Okay. And right now, is it credit cards that's covering that $700 in the red? Yes. Okay. So tell me more about the actual numbers on the debt. Can you tell me what you owe on your car? On my car, I owe $11,402. Okay. Do you know what it's worth?

um come back say like 3200 okay uh okay tell me about the credit cards what do you owe on those um about 3700 okay 3700 student loans what do you owe on that 71,000 okay and that's on a zero payment right now or yes okay and then tell me about your mortgage what do you owe on it and what's the thing worth

So I owe $276,000. And right now, I think it's worth a little under $400,000. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Uh, and I took maternity leave, but my job doesn't offer it. So I did short term disability and I took a hit there. Um, so I'm in forbearance with my mortgage company that's coming to an end. So I've been making half payment. Okay. Um, so. So you're with forbearance. That, when does that come to an end? When do you start paying the full payment again?

Next month. And when you do that, does that mean you're going to be more than $700 in the red? Or is that $700 with the full mortgage payment? That is $700 with the full mortgage payment. Okay, good.

So this is a tough equation. Are there things in your budget that you can cut out? I mean, because the truth is, here's the truth. Your largest debt is you're not even making a payment on it. So we can kind of just for the purpose of this kind of put it out of our mind. So if we do that for a moment, we go, well, wait a second. Now I'm on the hook for $14,000 just with the car and the credit card.

So let's look at it in smaller chunks and go, how quickly could I pay off $14,000? Okay. That's what we're solving for right now. And so with this childcare thing, you've got a four-year-old. When do they go to kindergarten? Because a lot's going to pop off when you get one of these out of daycare. So she'll be, she can go in 2026 because her birthday is late in November. Okay.

Okay, that late birthday. Okay, so there is a light at the tunnel there. Let me tell you, I couldn't wait till my son went to kindergarten. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. It doesn't come as quickly as we want. I'm not trying to wish your time away with your little ones, but you know what I'm saying. Is there anything you can do to clear that $700? If you walk through your budget, is there anything? Because I'm talking about everything. Here's where I want you to look. Non-spending items, I want you to look at your withholding.

let's find out if we're getting a tax refund every month or at the end of the year, that's money that you could be having in your budget every single month. So do you get one? Um, I, I'm looking forward to getting one this year. Um, I'm not absolutely sure. Cause I did like the,

the exemption because I needed all the cash. Yeah. Okay. So I just kind of dug myself out of that hole because I had a tax due. So this year when you get your taxes back, that's going to be a tell-all for you. If you're getting back $3,000 or whatever it is, you need to go and change your withholding because essentially that $3,000 you could be getting throughout the different checks you get every month, right? Right. So if that's the case, I want you changing that. Next thing, are you investing at all?

I have a 401k. I do the match. My company matches up to 4%. Okay. So how much is that? Every, every check? I think it is roughly around like a little under 300. Mama, there it is. We need that.

a little under 300 at every check. That's getting really close to $700 a month. So let's take that. We're gonna temporarily pause that investing until we get this debt cleaned up. And then other places that you can look, obviously you're starting the right thing with subscriptions. Go through with a fine tooth comb.

Their first thing is to get out of the red, and then we can start talking about ways to increase the income so that we can start making extra payments. Focus on the car and the credit card. You can do this. Call us back if you need some help. Thanks for the call, Bianca. We're cheering for you. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, what's up guys? Episode two of 90 Day Money Makeover is available right now on YouTube. This series follows real people as they take on the challenge of transforming their finances and their lives in just 90 days. In this episode, watch as they face new obstacles, celebrate wins, and push forward on their journey. And of course, I'll be walking alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a little sneak peek of what the new episode is all about.

Me and Dara, back in November, have a new son, a baby boy. We have $87,000 in debt. I've been in debt since I was like 18 years old. I gave birth to him. I knew, I said, I cannot leave him with someone that I don't know. I don't care if we're eating rice and beans, Sean, I told him. There was no going back. When you guys called into the Ramsey show, it was like, I think that we should push them harder. Baby Jonathan being born is a wake-up call for us to finally change.

I can't go on another month. Wake up call. You know, open next 20 years. This is important. You know, we gotta get this right. You want to pay off your debt. You want to get your time back. You want to get your home. Nothing usurps those three.