‘Manchester by the Sea’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
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The Watch. Yeah. With Chris Ryan. How's that going? Manchester by the sea of prestige television, you know? A lot of the regime talk? No. Just what's going on in the torture cell this week? We've been doing three-body problem and Shogun. When you say it's the Manchester by the sea, like two sad dudes from the East Coast crying into the microphone together? That's right. Yeah, calling each other fucking pinheads. Sean Fantasy, still doing the big picture. Still going. Still rooting for the Jets?

Yeah, we're back. Speaking of matches. We've never been back. Tyron Smith? Yeah, Brock Bauer? Sure, we're doing great. Craig Horlbeck's going to be in Detroit next week? End of April. End of April? Yeah, right day before the draft. What week is it right now? It's the end of March currently. Craig's moving to Detroit? Yeah, so that's a while away. April 24th, NFL Draft Show. That's right. The draft, my life revolves around that.

and rock bottom movies. I haven't decided yet. There's a lot of J.J. McCarthy buzz that's really messed with my head. That's a trade now. I think after you said there are two places J.J. McCarthy can't go, one of them is Boston. It was just, that's fucking, it's a wrap. Yeah. He's definitely going to go there. Going to be J.J. by the sea. Yeah. So we're doing a theme month and we're starting it a week early.

Normally we do theme months at the beginning of a month, but we're just shoehorning this one right into April. It is Manchester by the Sea. It is the lead of rock bottom month. I forget who came up with this. Who came up with this, CR? I think it was just in a riff. Was it during the internal affairs pod? It was something we were riffing with Van. About prison month, rock bottom month. Yeah. And then...

I don't know what happened, but now we're doing it. And this is the ultimate rock bottom movie. Manchester by the Sea is next. Your brother has provided for your nephew's upkeep. I don't understand. The idea was that you would relocate. To where? Well, if you look. You can always come up weekends. Do you want to be his guardian? Well, he doesn't want to be my guardian. We're trying to lose some kids at this point. How's Patrick doing? I'm not moving to Boston. I got two girlfriends and I'm in a band. You're a janitor. What do you care where you live? Did I get you anything, Uncle Lee?

Manchester by the Sea. Rated R. All right. Manchester by the Sea came out first year we were doing The Ringer. An awesome movie year. Yeah. La La Land, Moonlight, and this. I think either one of those could have won in other years and probably did some more Oscar stuff. Sean's going to hate that I did this, but I made a list of best 21st century movies that didn't win Best Picture. Okay. But also have some sort of pop culture kind of tale. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Broke Back, There Will Be Blood, The Dark Knight, Social Network, Wolf of Wall Street, La La Land, Manchester by the Sea, Get Out, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Feels like the right kind of list. Those are really good picks. Maybe there's one or two left. Make the argument that those are like the best movies of the century. Yeah, I was looking because some people, especially after the first two decades, did the 21st century list. Now we're going to head toward the quarter of the century. I'm sure there's going to be some more lists for that.

And Manchester by the Sea will be on it. Now, the question is, why is this on the rewatchables? I think the thing we want to do with this is pick rewatchable movies. It's obviously not rewatchable like Anchorman, but there's a difference between a movie like this and a movie like Million Dollar Baby that I see once that I never want to see again. This movie has been on cable and I'm like, man, I never wanted to see that movie again, but...

God damn, this is a good movie. And you start getting sucked into scenes. Isn't that a typical rewatch? Yeah, but it's not because of like the floor is really low. There is no floor. You're in hell. Yeah. But you know what? This movie is pretty fucking funny. And all the stuff between Patrick and Lee and like, ah, you need a fucking spaceship to get there in 90 minutes. Like all the banter. Like there's a lot of levity in this movie. Yeah.

And I think that it has these qualities that aren't dissimilar from like why we like Good Will Hunting, why we like some of these like human dramas specifically to come out of the Damon Affleck axis. That kind of, they're there. It's just that you're also going to be confronted with the most harrowing moments you could possibly imagine for yourself.

I think there's a cinematic reason to revisit it too because the movie is so emotionally overwhelming that when you see it for the first time, you feel pulverized, right? It's like so powerful and so sad and so deep. But your instinct is to be like, I never want to watch that again, right? I don't want to be put in a position to feel that badly. But if you give it another try, one, you'll definitely hear that humor. But just as a filmmaker,

Lonergan is really interesting and really clever and does a lot of things that I definitely did not pick up on the first time. I probably had

some preconceived notions about the playwright turned filmmaker and like not necessarily thinking that they're as great visually as I would want them to be. Totally wrong about that watching it this time around. Also, I mean, a lot of the best rewatchables movies are just about movies with great performances. And this movie has like nine great performances. Everybody who's in this movie is at their best. This is the best they've ever been. So I feel like just going back to see

Lucas Hedges at the beginning, Michelle Williams right at her peak, Casey Affleck never better. Kyle Chandler dealing. Coach Taylor. Gretchen Maul redemption arc. That's right. She's back. Really, really good in this. Would you do that Oscar over again on a redo? Moonlight ended up winning. We thought La La Land won for five minutes. And I wonder like 20 years from now, which one of those three has the biggest tail?

Because sometimes it might take two decades for us to even figure that out. I think Moonlight is now going to be recognized as the movie that led to this radical change in what the Best Picture winner is. Like, the Best Picture winner, I think I might have written this the night that it happened on The Ringer, but there had basically never been a movie like that that had won Best Picture before. So I think even just setting aside how great that movie is, just on that, it's going to remain impactful. But Manchester by the Sea, it's like kind of a perfect foreshadowing

fourth place finisher in the Oscars because it's like the movie that a lot of people have the biggest emotional relationship to. La La Land is great. It was never my favorite. It's kind of my least favorite of the Chazelle movies, honestly. Yeah. It was a big swing. Yeah. And it was really interesting and fun to watch. I feel the same way about Moonlight. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to play out. But three classics. We always talk about, oh man, another crappy movie here. That was a really, really, really great movie here.

I think that also like this film is an interesting, it's, was this the first Amazon film? Was this the first? Yeah. They acquired it out of Sundance. Yeah. They bought it for 10 million. It's been available on Amazon for, since it came out basically is, is it's like one of those Netflix things where it's like, Oh, that, that movie is always looking at me like in the corner of like recommended movies on my, on my streaming service. Um,

That and I think, ironically, there's been some memes to come out of this movie that have made it kind of extend its lifespan a little bit, although very darkly. And yeah, I think it has legs. Grief is a concept that's been in a bunch of great movies and I don't think maybe ever nailed as hard as it is in this one. Lonergan, he's going for the theme of basically, how do you keep going?

If something so horrible happens to you that there's no coming back, what's your life like five years later? What's your life like seven years later? How do you come back from the uncombackable? So he's had a couple quotes when the movie came out. You can't get through life without something happening to you that you can't stand. And there's nothing wrong with putting that in a story. And then he said, some people can't get over something major that's happened to them at all. So why can't they have a movie too? It's an interesting way to think about it. What other movies are like this where...

All three of his movies are like that. I mean, it's the core theme of his movies. You know, like You Can Count on Me and Margaret and this movie are all about something absolutely awful and mortal happening to someone and them trying to figure out how to keep going. Like in You Can Count on Me, it's a brother and a sister who lose their parents at a very young age. And the movie fast forwards 30 years in the future and it's just like,

we're not over this. Yeah, we're not ready to cope with what happened to us. In Margaret, it's just a young woman watching a woman get hit by a bus and feeling like she was participating somehow in this accident that she witnessed. And then her inability to kind of get over what she saw transpire. And this movie is the same thing. I mean, this movie is maybe the worst thing that can happen to a person. Like in the rewatchables history, like is there a worse thing that has happened to a character? I agree. Yeah.

but he just seems fascinated by that and I think that those are like the highest dramatic stakes. It's this and then it's Christian Harless not being able to get reunited with Ashley Judd, I think. That's a big one, yeah. Pulling away, asking for directions, need to get some bread. That's the true heartbreak, yeah. So he's made, he's directed three movies and all three of them

Are movies like you stumble out of the theater at the end of it? You can count on me. It's been on the rewatchables list for a while because it's basically the Ruffalo breakout. Yeah. And it's Laura Linney just establishing herself as one of the signature actors of the last, I don't know, 25 years. So his movies tend to take a long time to write and for them to come out. And with Margaret, obviously, he went through post-production hell with whether it was his cut or not. And he finally got his version out.

But there's something that happens with that context where the films have been marinating for a while. Even the story of the making of this movie where it's basically an idea that Krasinski and Damon bring to him. And then he takes, according to Damon, six years before it comes out. He's working on this. He's tinkering it. And I think that's the other thing that makes it a rewatchable. When you go back and watch this film, for his lived-in and human and almost like

Not cinema verite, but it feels very much like real life.

every single line actually had something to do with the major themes of the film. You know, like almost every single throwaway seems to actually, you can chart how it comes back to what's this movie about? Why is this person saying this? And you can tell that even though it was a compressed shooting schedule and it was probably very difficult, it was like everything about this movie has been thought through. And that gives it an extra weight, I think, beyond even what happens in the film. Was it on your radar to,

Like, I don't remember talking with you guys about this movie when it came out, even though we were together every day. Like, I don't know. I think I just saw it in the theaters or maybe I went to a screening, was like crushed by it. And then I wasn't like, hey, you got to see Manchester by the Seabill. It'll really ruin your weekend. Did you see it in the theaters? I saw it in the theater.

I really liked You Can Count On Me. For some reason, that became a rewatchable for me, even though it doesn't have a lot of the typical DNA. I just was really interested in that director, but also the fact that Damon was so passionate about it and then stepping on casting what ifs, was supposed to be the lead, and then did The Martian instead and had this sliding doors moment with it. We'll talk about that later about what is this movie with Damon. It was on my radar.

Plus Manchester by the sea, like, you know, North shore it's between Beverly and Gloucester. Um, just a, an interesting place to set a movie. And I always like Casey Affleck. He had, you know, going through his runs, like,

He's the 90s kid actor who's in To Die For, Good Will Hunting. He has that little run, but we don't really think anything's going to happen. Then he's in all the Oceans 11s, 12, 13. And then he just seems like he's going to be Ben Affleck's brother who's kind of fun to have in a movie. And then in 07, puts out Gone Baby Gone and The Assassination of Jesse James, which Chris Ryan has been pushing for for a rewatch of over three years. I think Gone Baby Gone is almost too rock bottom for you.

Yeah, I mean, or maybe it'll turn up in Rock Bottom Month. Who knows? It is on the training wheels for Manchester by the Sea. Yeah. So he's got that and we're all going, oh, this guy's going to be a real guy now. And then it kind of goes sideways again. He does that weird Joaquin Phoenix movie. A lot of personal stuff comes out of that. Killer inside. Yeah, he's got some personal stuff that we'll talk about later. All of a sudden, he's in Tower Heist.

It seemed like he'd missed his moment and then Manchester gives one of the best actor performances I think of the decade. Whether Damon could have done it, I think is a really interesting debate because you could look big picture at Damon and say,

He never had a movie like this. Good Will Hunting was probably the closest, but he never had his best actor movie. The Martian might have been... I think Stolwater was kind of his version of making Manchester in some ways. It was almost like the makeup movie. Right. Yeah. Where that's like a really withdrawn character that's kind of emotionally reserved. Yeah, it's a guy who's like, I'm a working class guy who's trying to like, I can't quite articulate. I'm not going to have these big speeches or anything like that. Everything has to be through action and gesture. And what I don't say...

And I love that movie, but I know it kind of had mixed reviews. Damon is just such a charisma machine. It's so hard, you know, like on screen, you're just waiting for him to crack a joke or be the most charming guy. Or even when he's playing like a doofus in the oceans movies, he's still like you're magnetized to him.

And Lee is trying to disappear, you know, like he's trying to be invisible in the world. So it's hard to imagine. I mean, we can talk about it more later, but it is hard to imagine. But it was, you're right that he was really vocal about the movie for a long time, Damon. And I know it originated with him and Krasinski talking, but that he was, I guess he's been friends with Lonergan for a really long time. He believed in him like about as much as a famous actor could believe in a director. Like in Lonergan's going through money problems. Yeah.

And Damon's just like, we came up with this idea. You got to do it. Gave him three years to work on it. Didn't Damon also just like, what can I do to fund Margaret? Right. Yeah, I mean, he's in it. Yeah. And he pushed hard because when it was, I mean, that,

It's a weird thing too with Lonergan because so he shot Margaret in 2005. It goes through six years of lawsuit issues. And then kind of ruins his life. It's a little like what we talked about with Paul Brickman with Risky Business where he had such a traumatic experience he almost couldn't bounce back. And he talks about Manchester by the Sea and I think a lot of people were asking him questions on the promo run where it's like, so how fucked up was this one? And he's like, honestly, great.

I knew that Matt Damon wanted me to write this movie and wasn't going to start noting it and changing all of my words and changing what the movie was about. And we made it in 30 days and I got to cut it. It doesn't feel like this was ever in turmoil like that. I was reading an interview with him about the 20th anniversary of You Can Count On Me that was really interesting. And he talked about how on You Can Count On Me, which is a beautiful and really interesting movie,

But is very unorthodox, like you were saying. And has, like, a very unorthodox ending. And just feels way more like a 70s movie. Yeah. That's a good call. He, like...

He had Final Cut, and then a new production company came in, and they were like, you can't have Final Cut if you want this money from us. So he got Martin Scorsese to come on as an executive producer. This is before Martin Scorsese did this all the time. And he was like, I'm going to bring Scorsese in, but he gets Final Cut. And he did that to protect himself. So it's ironic that the guy who was savvy enough after years as a playwright to bring in a powerful person to protect him still got caught up in this bullshit on Margaret. Is Margaret Miramax?

I don't remember which studio it was. But there was one particular producer who was the one who was really up against him in this. And it wasn't Harvey Weinstein. I think it's Dan Gilbert's brother. I think it was. It was Dan Gilbert's brother. And that took out like 11 years of movies for him. I mean, he put out one movie between You Can Count on Me and Manchester by the Sea. And they're basically two decades apart. So it's a crazy one. It's a recurring theme of this podcast where you just wonder what the fuck happened to

to entire decades of careers. These movies are hard to get on the ground, man. Yeah. These movies are hard to do. Paul Brickman didn't work again after Risky Business for, what was it, like seven years? Yeah, they did another He was the hottest director in Hollywood for four months. That's really crazy. It's almost like, you know, I actually, I'll wait until we go to casting waves because I have some questions about that. Who is Lonergan if you're looking at the last 50 years? Who's swimming in his pool?

Well, in terms of like going from stage to screen, you could go with Mamet or Tom Stoppard, somebody like that. Mamet is definitely a big influence on him. And Lonergan does do some rewrite work and some Hollywood stuff. The person that's most familiar to me is Alexander Payne, where it's like writer, director, underrated as a filmmaker, very celebrated as a writer. Alexander Payne also does a lot of script work, does script doctoring. Lonergan's like a legendary script doctor. Yeah.

So you think that's how he is making money is the script doctor stuff? I think so. The year to year. Yeah, yeah. I think he's the guy who's like, you have 30 days to fix this movie and write good jokes. And that's something that he's really good at. Because even his really, really sad movies are pretty funny. Yeah. Well, he's also, I just don't have a feel for him because he's also the guy who's like, yeah, I'm going to put myself in this as the guy who...

sarcastically says hey nice parenting he has a big part in you can count on me he plays the priest you know and he's in that movie a lot and he's not a bad actor is he in Margaret he must have a cameo of some kind I didn't rewatch Margaret before this we're the movie nerds with Margaret right now

It's that perfect thing where because it was lost for so long and people were dying to see it, as soon as it came out, people were like, masterpiece. You have to protect the artist and protect it. I remember really, really loving it when I saw it, but it is much more unusual and harder to penetrate than the two movies in between. You a fan? Yeah, but similar to what Sean was saying, I remember, did you have the DVD of the extended cut? And it started getting passed around. So I remember watching his copy of

And I was like, we got to love this because this is like a secret movie that we got and we have to like really... But now the extended cut, you can get it. Yeah, you can get it now. You just couldn't see it for a long, long time. It's a beautiful movie, but it is a bit more like emotionally abstract, I think, than like Manchester by the Sea, which is, it's like a very direct, clear American tragedy. This movie, I saw Michelle Williams in it, who completed her trifecta of damaged...

spouses in movies, starting with Brokeback, going to Blue Valentine, and then Manchester. It's really the trifecta of CR. She may have less screen time in this movie than Hopkins does in Silence of the Lambs. She does. She's 12 minutes. And has as big of an impact. I would argue up there with the greatest one-scene performances we've certainly ever talked about. Not getting into all time, but just like

And she's so good the night of the fire, too. Like when she's just Randy and is like, you fucking pinheads gotta, everybody's gotta go home. Like she's so, like one scene, you're like, I know who this person is. And she's so different after it, you know? It's funny that she came back for more, though, after that double bill that you're talking about. And she was like, I'm going to play one more sad wife. One more time. I got one more sad wife in me. Five Oscar nominations for her. Three best and two supporting.

Still hasn't won. I think she would have won if she went in supporting the year The Fableman's coming out. Yeah, I think so. Also, the category was loaded this year because she was going against Viola Davis and Fences for best supporting this year. She was not going to win that one. Lonergan won for original screenplay and beat La La Land. And then Affleck won for best actor, which he was favored. He was winning all the awards. He won everything, yeah.

there was some stuff percolating about him that started to overshadow. Then really the next year at the Oscars when he was supposed to present, that was Me Too was in full effect by then and then he ended up bowing out. That became a little piece of the legacy of this movie that he was starting to go through stuff off the screen instead of this just being his moment. His career is never, from a movie standpoint, his career is not recovered from that. Yeah, I think he's making a movie with Damon now.

for Apple. I mean, he was in Oppenheimer and he's one of the best parts of Oppenheimer. So it's, he's not like been excommunicated or anything like that, but you're right. You'd think after a performance like this and a win like that under normal circumstances, you would go on to be doing bigger and bigger things. And he was in the wilderness a little bit. Got nominated for best picture, best director, best supporting actor and best supporting actress. Lucas Hedges, who was in this and then mid 90s, one of my son's favorite movies. Hmm.

And has been doing stage the last couple years. I saw him in a theater version of Brokeback Mountain in London. Right. So he was one of those, as we head into the 2020s, I think he would have been on that Chalamet list, right? Of who are going to be the biggest up-and-coming actors in their 20s of the 2020s.

But it's not positive he wants it. He apparently is in this movie, Shirley, that came out on Netflix on Friday about Shirley Chisholm. But that's the first movie he's made in five years. So he's up to other stuff right now. You have Lucas Hedges thoughts or should we move on? When seeing him in Brokeback, I was like, this guy can have it whenever he wants it. But obviously he just is not doing it right now. Yeah.

We have a casting what-ifs with him that's pretty good. So $9 million budget made $79 million. Amazon paid $10 million. And all the research on this movie was like they were scrapping it together, just trying to get through the shoot. There's a thing we'll talk about later. This is another ending that they wanted that they couldn't get done. And then ironically, the movie ended up making $10 million.

Nine times as much as they thought. Yeah. I love the stories about the making of this movie where it's like very old school. Like they're basically in a race to finish it before winter's over. Cause like if winter is over in Massachusetts, it's a completely different place. Yeah. So they have to like get through the shoot of the winter stuff before spring comes. It's, it's just very like, that's how they used to have to make movies. Right. Yeah.

This is a really interesting thing, though. I wrote a story about independent movies when this movie came out in early 2017 when the Oscar race was starting to happen. Because things were starting to flip with the streamers. This was right when Amazon and Netflix really came in. And I talked to Chris Moore, who's one of the producers of the show, who's a longtime Affleck and Damon producer. And he said, there's a window right now where they're all trying to fill up, but at some point Amazon will have enough titles and all they'll care about are the big ones that are coming up.

And if you're a subscriber of Prime, which is what they care about, do you care if they have 50,000 titles or 6 million? As long as you get what you want out of the 50,000, what are you going to do with the other 5 million titles, right? They're just going to sit there. So like even at this time, those guys were like,

Let's just try to get this in while we can. While there's a moment to get a movie like this made, let's just try to get it made. And you could argue that they hit them up again for air, where they're just like, we have this new model. Let's see if anybody will fund it. And they did that with air, where it was like, everybody here has equity in the movie. Well, sometimes try to shy away from movies that came out in the last 10 years, because I think sometimes you need some distance.

We need some research. We need some half-assed research to come out that we don't know whether we believe or not. And a lot of times you just kind of need to marinate with the movie and that can change the more times it pops on, the more times, you know, some of the actors and the directors that are involved in the movie, their lives might change. And then it feels like after like, I don't know, 12, 15 years feels like about a short enough time. This one feels different.

This feels like there was so much written about it and discussed when it came out. It's a certain type of movie that's definitely the beginning of some sort of era. And it's also, I think has two of the saddest scenes I've ever seen in a movie. And it's one of those things where you're just like, you almost can't function after, after you. So I watched this, uh,

on a plane last night and you know what they say about like the oxygen makes it like and I was I was a fucking mess like an absolute embarrassment yeah the guy reading Dune next to me and he just kept looking over at me because he's like I can't beat it I'm like you fucking can't beat it don't you fucking

I was thinking about this when you were asking about other movies that are like this. You know, like we did Ordinary People, right? That's a really sad movie. It's a really tragic movie in some ways. But it's kind of the inverse of movies like that because I feel like all the Lonergan movies, they don't actually ever really have the conversation about what's happened. They're like about how in real life, you don't sit down with your brother or your wife and say like,

So, on Tuesday, my mom died. And then, on Wednesday, I woke up and I was in pain. You know, like, life doesn't work that way. Like, everything is kind of understood in the casual way we go about our lives. This is one of the few movies where, like, Lee obviously feels everything. But he is not comfortable with and probably was not raised to be able to talk about everything. So, like, all the time when you're watching this movie, with these two rare exceptions, I think, that you're talking about, he

he kind of like cuts out of the scene before the conversation starts to happen. You know, or like he moves on to something with a totally different energy. Like, you know, even in the moment when that confrontation between Michelle Williams' character and Casey Affleck's character at the end of the movie, which is like, that's one of the movie scenes of the 21st century. It's so powerful. It goes right to him getting in a bar fight. It's like, it's just immediately like, great bar fight. Get your energy out. You looking at me? Yeah.

So, you know, all that stuff is purposeful too. It's all correlated and connected action. I think that's what Lonergan cares about is there's baggage in the room, but the characters don't know how to address it. And they're just kind of stumbling around it and trying to talk about it. But they're just not actually saying what they need to say about it. I have...

It's weird. I feel like there are some rewatchable movies that are super sad that in a way is kind of the appeal of the movie. Sometimes you want to be in a certain mood. My wife's definitely like that with certain things where she's like, you know, Grey's Anatomy was used to play. I mean, that's a,

dumb TV show that was really successful. But they used to play that shit. I want to cry my eyes out. Like Love Story, something like that. Love Story's a great one. You know how Love Story's going to end. It's not going to end well. Brian Song was a great one from a sports movie standpoint. Super early TV movie from the early 70s. But you knew halfway through Brian Piccolo's getting cancer. And it's like, all right, I'll take another ride on this sad train. But it is a certain type. We did Fucked Up Family February. Yeah.

And I think rock bottom up is in that same genre. Craig, I have a question for you. Does your generation like being sad through movies? Yeah.

Or is this like an older generation thing? Yeah. Does even like the idea of rock bottom month appeal to you? Not at all. No. Well, I was joking with people outside before. It's going to be hilarious. Like when this movie pops up on people's rewatchable feed, they're going to be like, what in the hell are we doing? This is the saddest movie ever made. I'll tell you my thoughts at the end. But no, I don't like being scared in movies and I don't like being sad. I never want to go into a movie. I think Craig's generation is very upfront about their feelings.

So it's like, here's why I'm sad. I had these things, but art, like especially my generation was bottled up baggage, never talking about anything. And then we had the movies was how we kind of got through our show. Got it out. Yeah. Yeah. Like big generations just like tweeting or posting. I'm really sad right now. All the people in my generation, the cliche thing would be like,

The world's sad enough. We're constantly, like, the news is so sad. We see everything like we want to be happy when we watch something on TV. We're not going to put something sad on. I think we're more of the generation where it's like we have unresolved feelings about our dads and we have to watch Field of Dreams to understand. Right. Or Kramer vs. Kramer when we did that one. It's like, this is our divorce movie. So this movie, $9 million budget.

That's such an interesting idea, though, about like how we don't need our culture anymore to make us feel things because people, kids have been trained to. I think about this even with raising my kid where my wife is like, tell us how you're feeling. Like she's like saying that to like no one was like, Sean, how are you feeling? When I was five years old, they were like, go stand over there and shut up. Right. Yeah.

It's a lot different. Go back to hockey practice. $9 million budget made $79 million. Sadly, Raj was gone by the time this movie came out. I'm going to say guaranteed four stars from Raj. Basically everything he wants. This checks 45. Story and characters. This is what he wants. Story, characters, great performances.

All right, we're going to take a break and then come back with, we're not necessarily calling it most rewatchable scene. We'll call it most memorable scenes for this one. Okay, that's good. This episode is supported by State Farm. Think about your first reaction after you have an accident. What do you do? You scream, oh no, or man, why did this happen? On the flip side, let's say you buy a new car or you lease a new car. Get in there and it smells great and you're like, man, this is awesome.

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This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Finding out Mint Mobile has unlimited talk, text, and data plans for only 15 bucks when you buy a three-month plan is kind of exhilarating. It's hard to believe something that good can be true. It's like the first time you watch one of the great old shows. Maybe you're a little younger than me and you're like, you know what, I'll give The Sopranos a shot. And then you're four episodes in and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe that's this good.

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So Lonergan, he just creates this pace coming out of the gate, right? We're with Lee and it's like, man, this guy seems sad and he's doing janitor stuff.

And then he ends up in that one lady's house and he's like just plunging the toilet. And she's like, I'm sorry, Lee. I'm sorry. It's so gross. He's like, it's okay. It's okay. And you're like, oh man, this guy is fucking rock bottom. He hears her be like, do you ever have a fantasy about your handyman? I'm like, what a great movie. Then he gets in the fight with the other neighbor. She's the best. We're just laying the groundwork for this guy's life fucking sucks. You know, it's my fucking tub. Yeah.

That's Missy Yeager, who is like an actress who was in a lot of early Lonergan plays. Who's like, he, that's the thing in all his movies too. He got all these like all stars from him putting on plays in Broadway over the years.

Patrick's hockey scene I enjoyed. I have so many thoughts. You want to just do it now? I'm saving it for a very special part. Some good Massachusetts hockey. I like the coach. Great Tate Donovan. I was going to say incredible use of Tate Donovan. Rink's perfect. So great. He doesn't have a name in the credits. It's just Patrick's hockey coach. It's also not since...

Not until the holdovers has even used so perfectly for 1.5 scenes where you're like, holy shit, they got Tate Donovan. Yeah, right. It's also so great that the extra... This is why Lonergan is the best.

is like Patrick goes back and the coach is like, all right, your dad died. I'm going to forget about the fighting. But no more of that shit. And you're off the team for a week to think about your feelings. Think about your dad. Yeah. He was either Coach Sullivan, Coach Murphy, or Coach Patrick. It was like one of the three. There were no other names. That was definitely Fitzy. And he was, you know, he was a wing coming up playing hockey. Yeah.

Had a cup of coffee with the Bruins. Yeah, the bees. I like the scene when Patrick's hanging out with his buddies and they're talking about StatTrek and doing that. It's just fun to watch. It's a little Good Will Hunting-ish. Lee's buddies in the basement where it's just, oh, this is fun. I'm having fun in Lee's basement. Everybody's busting each other's balls.

It's great. What could go wrong? It's a flashback scene. The moment where she comes and she reads them the riot act and he's like, I'm so sorry. And everybody's like really quiet. And then as soon as she walks away, he's like, she can't talk to us like that. You want to keep it down, you fucking morons. My kids are sleeping. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't think we were that loud. You want to get these fucking pinheads out of my house, please? Yeah, I do. I mean, I really do.

She can't talk to us that way. Yeah. I'm not fucking around. Fucking want to get these fucking assholes dressed and get in the fuck out of here. She gets mad, does the don't drink and drive thing, and then everybody leaves and he goes to walk.

And then it immediately becomes one of the toughest scenes, I think, that's ever been filmed. Amazing, though, about that. Well, two things about it. One, he uses flashbacks, especially in the first hour, hour, 15 minutes of the movie, in this very unusual way where you're like, wait a second, is this a flashback? Yeah, what year are we in? Yeah, like if you see Kyle Chandler, you know it's a flashback. But like most of the time, especially in the first 15 minutes, it's a little disorienting. It works really well. It's really subtle. But then also he doesn't show us

For example, him lighting up the fireplace. It's only when he tells the story do we know that that's what happened too. So like everything is all about what's kept from us. You never see what she says to him. Yes. You have to imagine that. You have to imagine that. So it allows for like, who knows? Like who knows? Even like how responsible someone is or is not for the thing that has happened. We don't totally fully understand because he's withheld all this information from us. This was a dead silent in the movie theater scene.

Where sometimes there's a scene when you're in a crowded movie theater where you could hear somebody's foot moving. It's so quiet. You'll have to remind me because I know you probably were seeing stuff early at this point, but there was a real don't tell anybody about this because you have to see it for yourself. It wasn't really a twist, but I didn't know

going in the theater and I remember just like looking at my wife and we were both like holy fucking shit I had no idea I mean it was it played at Sundance so coming out of Sundance people were like wow saddest movie of all time just dropped but beyond that like you didn't have any details about it I mean it's punishing and then it goes to the police interview the

kind of not even an interrogation when he's like, he's trying to confess. And he's like, I, I didn't put the screen in the fireplace. He does that whole thing. And they're like, all right, well, you didn't commit a crime. He leaves and he grabs the gun. And it's, it's that I think it's going to be the number one rock bottom moment. We probably do. I think trying to, to,

to take your own life with a policeman's gun after that. In a PlayStation. That's about as rock bottom as it gets until we do hardcore. I mean, it's just an amazingly written scene though where obviously he's trying to get locked up.

Chris, suck it until we do hardcore. Because by the way, we are doing hardcore. It's finally happening. Turn it off! You've got to create the rock bottom scale. What's on the scale in the history of the rewatchables? I think this is a 10. No, this is a 10. There's never been anything worse in a movie that I can think of.

Because it's one thing for the most horrible thing to happen to you. But when it's your kids, that's the number one worst thing that can happen to anybody. But then it's your fault. It's like a double worst thing. I don't think it can be beaten. It's every parent's nightmare. It's their deepest, darkest nightmare. I think like...

He... There's something really interesting in the way that it's done where like you could imagine in a different society with a different person if something like this happened, parents would be... A parent would be held responsible for using cocaine. Yeah. For maybe like a kind of gross negligence. Got a lot of questions about that. Yeah. But in this community...

they're like, you're free to go. We know you. You're a good guy, Lee. We were doing cocaine and they're like, anything else? Yeah. What else? They're writing him off the hook, basically. And he's like, you've suffered enough. With some scratch cards. So it was Friday night. That's what you're saying. There's some good Lee and Patrick scenes. They're incredible together. The scene when they're arguing about the burial, I can't speak, burial plot.

and where the car is parked. It's just, it's the kind of stuff like if you were saying, "Ah, this movie is two hours, 20 minutes, what would you cut?" I wouldn't cut anything from this movie. - I agree. - Every single scene and moment has a purpose. - Because you can't use heavy equipment in the historic Rosedale Cemetery. - Why not? - Because there are very important people who were buried there and their descendants don't want steam shovels vibrating over their dead bodies. - Why can't we just bury them someplace else? - Because that's the plot that Joe bought.

Don't ask me why. But if you want to make some other arrangements, you want to find someplace else to bury him, you want to talk to the mortician, and you want to call up Sacred Heart and talk to Father Martin and find out how much that's going to cost and make all those arrangements, be my guest. Otherwise, let's just leave it, okay? I'm just saying I don't like him being in a freezer. Yeah, I don't like it either. But it isn't him, because he's gone. It's just his body. I'm just saying it kind of freaks me out. Oh, goddammit, where do I park the car? Yeah, I don't know, but I wish you'd figure it out, because I'm freezing my ass off. You don't have a normal winter coat?

And just watching them interact and Lee kind of needs Patrick, but he doesn't want to admit it to himself. It's like the one person who will talk to him. Yeah. And I think Patrick needs him too. You know what I had forgotten in, in, in between viewings of this movie is, um,

This is not a Lucas Hedges part in a lot of ways. Like, in my mind, like, this is not, like, Lucas Hedges' public persona. Yeah. It's this fucking smart-ass, like, athlete. Like, playboy. Yeah. Playboy. Multiple girlfriends. And it's just one of the great stick men of the North Shore. Right. It's like...

It is. It's such a great part for him, but he's so fucking annoying and funny in this movie. He just will never let Lee go. Like he's just berating him the entire time and is such a smart ass about it. The funeral about that. Yeah. Funeral scene with no dialogue and just music is pretty, pretty unbelievable. And Michelle Williams comes back.

And he sees that and he does that a lot. He does that also in the fire scene too, where it's just a Dazio and G minor. Like he just lets long stretches of classical music play over these really, really powerful scenes. And you're like, oh, he's a playwright. He must need to like write the words. But a lot of his movies are just visual, just music and picture.

And Affleck really broke down and was not in the script. He actually got upset as they were filming it, broke down. And Lonergan, one of the things that in the research, like sometimes things will happen when they're filming and he'll just be like, oh, let's, I didn't realize that was going to happen. Let's keep that. And I think that's why all the actors like him. I think he's also the best writer. He writes good lines for them too. That's definitely one reason why. Well, that leads us to the Hill scene.

Lee runs into his ex-wife who's got the stroller, her friend leaves and

New category for this one. CR created last week the Rick Dalton Award for the best fucking acting I've ever seen in my life. Does it go to both of them? I think it goes to both. She's unbelievable. And the way he plays it, where he said his quote was, the challenge for him was to have all these feelings and hold it without weeping and wailing and gnashing your teeth to be there but also not be there. Yeah.

And that's what he's doing. He's like, it's okay. It's all right. He won't look at her. And she's just trying to connect to them. Like, Lee, just, she really needs him to have something. And he's just dead. Thank you for saying everything. You can't just die. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.

- I want you to be happy. - Honey, I see you walking around here. And I just wanna tell you-- - I would wanna talk to you, Randy. Please, I-- - Lee, you gotta, I don't know what, I don't wanna torture you. - You're not torturing me. - I just wanna tell you that I was wrong. - No, no, you understand there's nothing there.

There's nothing there. It's not true. It's not true. You don't understand. I don't know what this... I know you understand. I've got to go. I'm sorry. It's such a, at once, like, real, raw scene that is also, if you take a step back and, like, close your eyes and listen...

The dialogue is music. Like the way he's trying to stop her from saying what she's got to say. And he's like, I can't even give you like the bare minimum of what you're looking for here. And it's just unbelievable. Like, I feel like it's also so precise. It's something we understand, but don't know, which is that in the aftermath of what happened, their marriage fell apart.

But what happened? She blamed him. Right. But in that scene, you learned that. Like, we didn't know that until we hear her say, I said horrible things to you. Unforgivable things. That's a little loud. She said, I should burn in hell. That's so smart, you know? Like, he didn't really let us know what transpired between them. There's two scenes missing that we don't actually need. And that's one of them. Yeah, it's them fighting. Yeah. You can almost feel him writing it and cutting it. Yeah. And then, yeah, and then...

Her saying, I should burn in hell for the things I said to you, which just as a layered piece of dialogue since their children died in a fire is an incredible line to say. And then that imagination, which everybody who watches the movie in their mind will conjure up, what could she have said to him? It's so much more powerful than if you give Michelle Williams a five-minute berating him scene. Yeah, that's it. It's the same thing with, I don't want to step on it if this is one of the scenes, but when he goes to visit his mom.

Oh, shit. Yeah. You know, and I don't know if that's a memorable scene or not for you, but like you've,

Gretchen Moe barely says anything in this extended three or four minute sequence. She can't even get anything out. And then the information is delivered via email from Matthew Broderick's character, basically, that she's still not well. And we still don't totally understand, you know, she's an alcoholic, but like what happened to her? What went on? And he was like, you know what? It doesn't even matter. Like the details don't matter. Look, if she's fucking semi-human, I'll let you see. How bad was she? Yeah, you're right. That scene's cut. I like that though. I like that there's stuff that

They're kind of showing us, not telling us. The Hill scene is one of the best scenes of this century for me. I don't know how long the list is, but if you're just doing like, what are the single best scenes of this century, it has to be included. This is a little bit of my Stephen A. Smith, but I'm just going to say that it's kind of like when you have...

You have Led Zeppelin 4 and you're like, ah, Stairway to Heaven. This is Stairway... The whole scene is Stairway to Heaven. But then when you listen to it a bunch, you're like, but I actually like this song more. I kind of fell apart in the scene after the bar fight where he's at George's house and

And he breaks down in that in George's wife's arms and she's just like trying to get him get coffee into him. And he just starts crying because he finally breaks like after that scene, he has to go get his fucking head kicked in to get in touch with that feeling. But it's incredible. Like that scene is silent, but it's amazing.

I don't want to take away from the emotional experience you had with that scene. But the scene on the hill, I've seen this movie three times now. Me too. I was sitting alone in my garage yesterday in the afternoon watching it by myself. And the scene starts, and as soon as Michelle Williams starts talking, I just started crying. It was like there was a taser attached to my body that forced me to do it. I don't know why that, I don't know what it is. Is it the music? Is it her face? Is it the way that it's written? Is it that interplay, that kind of rhythm of the dialogue? Yeah.

But it's also because nobody else in the movie really says what they're feeling. Yeah. Like the whole movie is just people trying to like hold it together. Patrick, the way that Patrick deals with his dad's death. Yeah. He's like, he's been anticipating it. The freezer at one in the morning, the meat, all of a sudden he breaks down. He has one meltdown. Yeah. And those are the only two meltdowns in the movie. And it's actually very realistic because he has that panic attack and then the next day he's like, whatever. You know what I mean? He gets over it because he's a teenager, right? And he's got...

But because she's the only person who's willing to give you... My heart is broken. Your heart is broken. She's saying the things that everybody, while they're watching the movie, is thinking. I don't know. It's just amazing. The other taser to the heart scene is I can't beat it. Yeah, we're getting to that. I had one question on the Hill scene, though. How many actresses could have pulled that off? It's not a very long list. You know what? I bet a lot of people... Meryl Streep? No question. I wonder how many... Would you have bought Anne Hathaway in that scene? No. I love her, too, and no. But there's moments where I wonder if other...

actors watch that scene and be like can I even have done that you know what I mean it's like watching an incredible it's like watching Jokic and be like I don't think I can do that what's crazy is she was on fucking Dawson's Creek like I there's still a piece of me that can't believe this happened for Michelle Williams she would not have been the first round draft pick even on that show though you were like she's pretty soulful

You know, she kind of had something that the other actors didn't have. And some pretty famous people came out of that show. But like when you were watching that show, this character is pretty strange. You don't really see a young woman, a young teenage woman on TV that is like, like this. And she did turn out to, I mean, she's like in the 99th percentile. She's really amazing. Yeah, Brokeback happened and that was, that's what pushed her. I can't think of five actresses who could have been on that hill and done as good of a job. Even like Jessica Lange.

Yeah. Emma Stone? She rarely does like hard straight drama like this. Could Jennifer Lawrence have done that? Like Winter's Bone Jennifer? No, right? I don't know. It's tough, man. She's pretty credible as a New Englander too. Yeah. You know, she gets the accent pretty good. Well, just when you thought that was the saddest scene in the movie and then just when you thought him collapsing into his friend's wife's arms was the saddest, then we get I can't beat it. Yeah. I can't beat it.

I can't beat it. I'm sorry. It's almost like, I think the third time I saw this movie, I think my memory of it was it was more profound. It's not. And that's what's so good about this scene is he's just like, I can't beat it. Can you imagine like just to do the entire movie in four words? That's the movie. It reminds me a little bit of the ending of You Can Count On Me when they're sitting on the bench together. And at the very end, Mark Offalo says, do you remember what we used to say to each other when we were kids?

but then they don't say you can count on me, but that's what it means. Yeah. He's like, I'm not giving it to you. And this is kind of the inversion of that where it's like, this is the only thing he'll say about it. The only thing he'll say about what happened to him is I can't beat it. Take a break and then we'll do what's aged the best from this movie.

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What's aged the best? My guy, Josh Hamilton's in this. It's great to see him.

Lonergan go-to, I think, right? I think he's done some... Yeah, he was in, I think, one of the original This Is Our Youth. Yeah. With Ethan Hawke? I can't remember who was in that first set. But a lot of his plays are these, like, three-handers about young people living in New York in the 1990s. And so he accrued this, like, really cool collection of people. And then all those... After this, or around the time of this movie, a lot of those plays were put back on Broadway. So, like, This Is Our Youth...

The Waverly Gallery, and Lobby Hero. And I saw all three of them on Broadway, and they were all amazing. Wow. So, so good. But they're so different from the movies because they're not these like... Tragedies? Tragedies, yeah. They're very different. Well, he also has the Bradrick relationship because they've been friends since they were 15, which is why Bradrick...

popped into You Can Count on Me and then this movie. I think Broderick's mom, who was just written about in Ed Zwick's memoir, very unfavorably, actually, because she really got involved in the set of Glory. I read 50 pages. Yeah, it's a really good book. But she had a lot of thoughts about Glory, because apparently she's a very learned woman. But she was taught Lonergan a lot about drama and plays, and he always cites her in interviews as a person who changed his life.

I have for one stage the best Affleck as a really great dead-eyed pissed off New England drunk. I have Casey's mass holery. That like... Getting in two bar fights. What an incredible two minutes of Massachusetts driving. Fucking come on! He's like honking at the guy. I know he's... Obviously his brother has passed away, but like... Yeah, and then just like the brief little tidbits of sports stuff. Like he's watching the Isaiah Thomas Celtics and the Bs. Some Bs. Yeah.

That look, the J-Bug in the mid-90s, my buddy J-Bug, who was way more street smart than I was, and there was a certain look, and we would always call it the grab the beer bottle look, where if you're like, oh, that guy's coming over and he has that look that Aflac has, J-Bug would just kind of instinctively grab a beer bottle. If a guy asks you if you know him, there's probably not a right answer. How you doing? Good. Hey, can I ask you guys, do you know me?

I don't think so. I don't think so either. They never met. No, not yet. No. So what the fuck are you looking at me for? Excuse me? I said what the fuck are you looking at me for? Take a fucking walk. No, no, no, don't apologize for this ass. Take a fucking walk. Seriously.

It's a certain... Does Philly have that kind of dead-eyed, they're just staring through you as they're looking at you? Yeah, that's what happens when we watch the Eagles in the playoffs this past season. It just goes dead. Amazon Studios, this basically...

put them on the map and I think led to Netflix and Apple and a lot of money getting spent on movies for a few years there. So I think it was positive. I don't know if all the choices were great, but at least people were spending money on screenplays and actors. It was actually a pretty weird, good little mini run because Ted Hope, long time independent film producer, got hired to be the studio chief. And so he was basically running the studio but using his taste from like 90s...

Sundance cinema. Yeah. So bringing in movies like this and then somehow making $78 million or whatever it made. It's pretty great. Leslie Barber did the score, which is really good. I have for what's aged the best having a boat. Yeah. Is it? I mean, I don't know. I just like when I see it cause I'll never have one, but I always makes me jealous that I don't have one, but I would never want one cause of the upkeep.

I always make that joke when people are like, why do you buy Blu-rays? I'm like, I don't have any other hobbies. Like, I don't have a boat. You know what I mean? My boat is my Blu-rays. Right. It seems like a huge pain in the ass. It seems a huge pain in the ass. But when you see it in movies, it's like, how does a boat look great? Artboard's just like also like instantly depreciating assets too. Yeah. You gotta love being out. It's like the Jeremy Grant contract. It's just immediately worth half as much as... If you get a boat, name it Jeremy Grant. You bet.

The New England vibe in this movie. I have one more, but do you have any other what's aged the best? Well, this is complicated, but the Casey Affleck trying to shoot himself meme is definitely kind of low-key one of my favorites on Twitter. When Charles Holmes is like, I got to talk about X-Men 97 and it's just this meme of him grabbing the gun. Also, Patrick has a...

poster or like a flag for Bridge Nine Records which is like a legendary Boston hardcore label it's just a great touch with him and his fucking stupid band you have anything Sean uh Gretchen Moll Redemption Arc yeah oh yeah emerging as one of the better character actresses of her generation G Moll

She's great at this. You never doubted her. She's great. I definitely 100% did doubt her. Rounders is probably good for her. All right. What's the best of the accents? I did a rating system. Casey's a 10. Yeah. It's just perfect. It's a hometown advantage. He grew up in Massachusetts, so he gets it. It peaks during the ping pong trash talk. That's the thing. It has to get worse when you're drunk. Just stay out of this quadrant. There won't be any tears. Yeah.

When you add alcohol to the accent and the actors that understand, like, oh, my character's drinking in this scene. I got to ratchet it up. Like, he just gets it. I have Gretchen Mall as a nine. I thought she was fantastic. Like, you would have thought she was from Hingham. Michelle Williams was a nine, but she's a nine with whatever she wants to do. Lucas Hedges, I gave him a seven.

Thought it was good. It kind of drifted off a couple times, but for the most part, I believed in it. I thought it was there. What do you think of Chandler? Well... Because I think Chandler, spiritually, when he's getting diagnosed, and Casey says something sideways to Gretchen Ball, and he just turns and goes, stop that shit. That is so... Old Boston guy says that to you? Yeah.

I had Chandler at a three. So he had the attitude and the demeanor, but he did the classic, you know, the guy playing JFK. It was like, yeah, Rob, yeah. Like he just, he was trying to do the era a little bit, but he had, he had the,

He had the zest. He had that fuck you kind of attitude to it, but it never really landed. And then Tate Donovan clearly had showed up two days earlier and was like, you want me to use an accent? So he's somewhere between a two and a four. He's fine. I'm not holding against him, but I don't think he was with a dialect coach for a month.

trying to nail it you forgot the old guy whose pipes are getting fixed at the end who was a 19 out of 10 on the scale yeah they were using locals I don't count locals don't go real the lady who like after Lee tries to get a job at the boat yard and she comes back and she's like I don't want to see him in it yeah she was a good one I was like oh shit I think they used all locals for this what about CJ Wilson

His friend, George. CJ Wilson's from Alabama. Oh, interesting. I thought that was a local. He's pretty good. He was good. He's a really good character. If Bill thinks he's a local, then it's like a nine. Yeah, that was good. All right. Yeah, he's at least an eight. Kid Cudi pursued a happiness award for best needle drop. Stentorian's first song. I, I, I, I, I, I gotta run.

They're cranking in the garage. High hopes for them. They suck so bad. It would be funny if for Rock Bottom Month we changed this to would this movie have been improved or worsened by adding Kid Cudi's Pursuit of Happiness as a needle drop? There is a Lily Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts the Dylan song is in this too which is a really really good needle drop. Would you have for The Great Jack Ordo?

Most cinematic shot. I took the last shot. Yeah. It's just the two of them with their back. There's a lot of really great back-to-the-camera acting in this movie. And I thought that last shot kind of like... Then going up the hill too. Yeah. When he's throwing the lacrosse ball. So I really like the hill with the ball and it's...

And he's trying to bounce it and he loses it. It seems like Lonergan just kept it going. I thought, I don't know, something memorable about it. And then him on the hill with Michelle Williams, just the way that's framed. The hill's slanted. He's actually below her. I read an interview in Filmmaker where Lonergan's talking about, because most people talk to Lonergan about grief or writing.

and he was just doing a lot of filmmaking talk. And he was saying that a lot of the shots in Manchester are based on his favorite shot in shampoo, where it's like these two shots that basically he's like, I love to, I love to get them in the frame together, acting together. And not only is it just like really good, efficient filmmaking, cause you can cover more, but it's just like, he's, he's inspired by this, by the seventies film and you can really see it. Um,

I think also the fight that we mentioned before after the heartbreaking scene is cool. It's like a renaissance painting or something. Watching the guys beating the shit out of all, like them all crowding around him and beating him up. And they're all fucking day drinking. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. The Van Lathan Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People? I think A.O. Scott thought it did, right? Yeah. Should we talk about this? Sure. Okay. So there's a, at least in our circles, a somewhat...

I don't know if infamous is the right word, but a very strange review of this movie in the New York Times, which is a very laudatory review. It's as all were at the time that is just like, this is an incredible story. No one has a sense for like location, voice, character development like Lonergan. But then in the final third of the review, A.O. Scott, the Times critic back then, is like, this movie is also unmistakably about race. And here are the ways that we know how.

One, it's entirely about white male characters. So that alone is like a flag. Two, we see two black characters at the beginning of the movie. Stephen McKinley Henderson, who's like one of the great character actors working right now, who's his boss. And then the woman who has a crush on him, who he's working in the room with. And otherwise, we see that this is like really a story about the white working class and the way that it is like withdrawn in our society. And he makes like a case for it in the final third of this review.

which is certainly his right as a critic. I don't know that, I think if you had said to Kenneth Lonergan, like, were you thinking about race at all while you were making the movie? He might be like, yeah, and here are the ways in which I was. But it's weird for a movie that is like pretty clearly a masterpiece to be like, I'm devoting my read of the movie, almost half of my read of the movie on what feels like a kind of invented theory of what was going on in our culture at the time. So I encourage anybody who likes this movie to read it. It's a really interesting piece of writing.

Yeah. I bet this is not what you thought that we were going to respond with, with the Van Laten did this movie. Where it is in Massachusetts, it's, it's, it is what it is. I think we might've said that to each other. We were like, and what universe is this? A movie about black people, black people don't live there. Like, and if they do, it's a very small number. It could not be deeper in the North shore. The Butch's girlfriend. Eddie Murphy should be in it. The Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film.

So I've seen this three times. My wife watched it with me. It was a really fun Saturday morning at the Simmons house. The wife gets out and the kids don't, we can't get past that. And I know like she was sleeping downstairs and the fire department came and pulled her out. But I, my wife was just like, I'm just not leaving the house. I'm getting the kids before the furnace blows up. I'm not going to be the first one out. It's not happening.

It's not really explained in the movie. They do it as like, oh, you know, she's her sinuses and so he didn't want to put the heat on and she was downstairs. But it's kind of more than a nitpick for me. Okay. I think it's...

It's a tricky thing because like, you know, the mechanics of the story are never really even fully explained to us. It's just like through what other people, it's all hearsay. Right. You know, we never see anything. Lonergan doesn't really care. My butch's girlfriend is, there's a lot of driving in this movie.

Like, if you were going to, like, the one weak link is, like, at one point in the movie, Leah's like, I'm not your fucking chauffeur. And I'm like, I know, because we've been watching you drive this guy back and forth between houses for, like, 25 minutes in this movie. I don't know if this is a nitpick or a weak link. I don't know. You tell me. But, and it's critical to the movie because the story doesn't work without it. But Patrick not recognizing...

that Lee having to go home and what it is doing to him. And no one ever being like, give him a fucking break. And no one making it clear to him that he can't be here. Like, he can't get a job. He can't walk down the street without feeling horrible. Like, Patrick never, ever has any empathy for that throughout the entire movie. It's obviously a purposeful choice, but it's a little... Until he sees the pictures. It strains credulity, yeah. Until he sees the photo. Counter. Counter.

You have a 16-year-old and you know what it's like? 16-year-old, they're like the ultimate narcissist. They have no idea how anyone else is feeling about anything. I don't even think it would occur to that kid like, hey, I wonder what's going on with Lee today. But if something like that happened in your family? No, what you're saying makes sense. But I also think it's realistic that he's just in his own world and his dad died and he could care less about Lee's feelings about anything.

I say this as somebody who probably said 10 words to my son this weekend because he wasn't never home. It's not like my son's like, hey, dad, how was the podcast? Yeah, right. He could care less. How's Chris? Yeah. You guys going to see CR and Sean today? Did we do Vic Amuno Award? I dumped it for this one, but do you want it? Can I just give a shout out to Sandy's mom's carbonara? Yeah. Is this homemade carbonara? God, Jill, this is great. Yeah.

What's aged the worst? We talked about Casey coming out of this movie and the Me Too stuff that overshadowed his performance. It is what it is. I'd say what's aged the worst is trying to do something after seeing this movie, even for the second, third, fourth time. Like dinner right after? Yeah, it's really difficult to like, it's not an easy forget it. Like go get some drinks? Yeah. Do you like to see a movie first and then dinner or dinner first and then a movie?

movie dinner and then you talk about the movie dinner. I don't like to eat at 10 o'clock at night so probably dinner then the movie. See, that's why that's a divergence right there. You go to the four movie and then you go to the six. Bankers hours, huh? Yeah. Okay. I got what is the worst Tate Donovan wearing two polos. I don't know if that's like historically accurate to North Shore. Seems locally accurate. But it's fucking outrageous. So when this movie came out a couple of

A couple of the reviews kind of criticized the Adagio. Adagio? Adagio, yeah. Adagio and G minor, where it was just, I guess, in too many movies. People were like, I was in Rollerball and Flashdance. Like, come on, Monarch, you're better than that. Put Gimme Shelter in there. I don't know. I'm just... It's almost a what's aged the worst that people were mad at that because I think that song's pretty effective for movies. Fortunate Son by CCR. And then... That would have been good. I... That's...

An interesting criticism. Because it doesn't even cite like... Well, I'm not going to film Nerd Out. Rollerball also came out 42 years before this movie. Was it like 1975? It was like 50 years ago. So they ran out of money and Damon told the whole story on my 2018 pod. And it's a what's aged the worst because Matt Damon, you're rich. Like you could have chipped in for a little more money to film the final scene. Did you say that to him when he was on the pod? No, I wish I had. I wish I had. You got to hold him accountable. He said... He said...

I love Manchester. I'm incredibly proud of it. But Kenny had an ending. Maybe we could just have Craig play this whole scene if he can find it. That's too much of a pain in the ass. He said, God damn it. Motherfucker. Are you fucking kidding me? He said there was a flashback to before Casey's kids had died in the movie.

where they're all on a boat, the whole family and their whale watching. An incredible moment of joy, and the family's together, and whales start coming out, and we needed a drone. He said, you needed a fucking drone cam. This is Damon. It was one day of shooting. You got to get lucky with the whales. We could have figured it out. It was an epic scene. The camera pulls back, and he was like, it was epic. It was beautiful. It tied the whole thing together, and we ran out of money. And I was like, fuck. Come on, Matt. Come on, Matt. Dig into the pockets there, buddy. Yeah. You've been in seven board movies. Yeah.

Tells you a little bit about how things work. This is how things work. People don't put their own money in. They really don't put their own money in. Was there a better title for this movie? No. Isn't it great how beautiful this part of the world looks in this movie too? There's a lot of shots of just the neighborhoods and ocean. It's really nice over there. Yeah, you don't realize how cold it is through the movies, but Coda had the same thing. It made Gloucester seem like the most fun place on the planet to go visit. It looks beautiful. Yeah.

So the hottest take award, this is a reader suggestion. They wanted us to not call it the Stephen A. Smith hottest take award anymore. And the reader suggested that we call it the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. How do you stand on this, Sean? I remember that moment vividly on the pod and having an aneurysm. That was the first of many. The reader said that was the hottest take that's ever been said on the pod. And we should commemorate it with putting CR in the award. Thank you.

What do you think of that, Craig? I love it. Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Do you want to revisit that take? Was this from old school? I think it was from old school. Do you think we should have replaced Casey Affleck with Luke Wilson in this movie? I can't beat it. You know, like, can't beat it. It's just goddamn. Randy? My honest take award, this is going to get dark, but...

I think the wife shares 50% of the blame. Here we go. Yeah, let's get into it. Yeah, absolutely. Her sinuses, they couldn't put the heat on. Like, get a fucking neti pot. She has one. She's got a humidifier blown. It's 15. We're not there with Flonase yet. You have three kids. Your fireplace screen situation is that flimsy. Mm-hmm.

It's like the number one most important thing you have to have when you have kids. It's a nice sturdy fireplace screen situation. And then gets pulled out and her kids are still in the house. I don't know. Where do you stand on him? What is she telling him? Like she hopes he burns in hell. Maybe she should take some accountability. She should burn in hell for what she said to him. What do you think about him crushing 13 Budweiser's and doing a few lines? I'm not saying he's blameless. He's so jittery after 4 a.m. He's got to go to the state store to get fucking that. Go to the packing at 2.30 in the morning.

it's a great hot take thank you yep you got one I think I had something like much more low stakes it's the hottest take I'm going for it it's rock bottom month we should figure out how to come back from that we can just move on well I think it's just like it's just the testimony to just like sometimes it's okay if at the end of your career if you're a genius you only have four movies like if Ken Lonergan only makes four movies

That's fucking awesome. All the time I'm like, oh, but what if? And what if they had made more? What if they had done more? There are directors where I'm like, I wish you could crank more out. Yeah, there are guys who are like, oh man, it wouldn't be awesome if you were on a more of like an old studio and like cranking them out every 20 months. I romanticize that and I love that Curtis Hanson was just like, yeah, I'm just like making a thriller every 18 months. That's great. Yeah, Soderbergh, I love all that shit. But it's like if you got one Manchester by the Sea in you or Manchester by the Sea and you can count on me and you and that's all you do, cool.

And he did a lot of plays. A lot of plays, yeah. I mean, who knows? Maybe he's got something in the hopper now. He did Howard's End too, that adaptation of Howard's End, which was really, really good. Was that Showtime? It was Stars. Stars? I believe it was a BBC production that was broadcast on Stars. I felt the same way about... The Howard's End guy? No. I felt the same way about Doug Liman before I saw the Roadhouse remake. Tough. Tough. Casting what ifs, we mentioned the Damon piece. And Damon, once he realized he couldn't do it...

just steered it to Casey Affleck. So let me ask you this. Should Matt Damon had carved out a couple of Ridley Scott days from The Martian and just been like, I'll come do Joe. I'll be Joe. I'll be the brother. I think it is a better movie if you do that. So, all right, we're jumping ahead now to recasting couch because I think Ben Affleck should have been Kyle Chandler's part. And I think Damon... I get too distracted. I think Damon should have been Matthew Broderick's part. I think it would have been a little bit

over emphasizing what is clearly going on here but that like Joe is the more reliable maybe more beloved successful older brother and I think if you put Damon in that part it works even better because Damon is is that tractor beam and he's so clearly like he's the guy you want to put Ben Affleck in there

Who could Ben Affleck? I would love it if Ben Affleck was the guy who walks up, like Casey walks up to is like, do I know you? But he's, why couldn't he have been Joe? Cause they actually like look alike. Look alike. And they do. They do. I think they're actually brothers. I think he was shooting Justice League at this time. At this point, even though he's coming out of like doing assassination of Jesse James, like the thing about Casey Affleck that he has, which is kind of like a similar quality, but different than like what Philip Seymour Hoffman had, which is essentially like,

He's capable of doing movie star parts, but is always a character actor. He's always doing a character part. I think Ben Affleck is Ben Affleck. I think one of the reasons why this movie works is even with Matthew Broderick, there's never a moment where you get taken out of the movie. Where you're like, oh, that's Ben Affleck. You know what I mean? So Damon might have just taken you out of the movie at any party place. He might have.

But he's the king of cameos, though. That's the thing, is he's great at this kind of thing. You know, like, he's always showing up in movies for five minutes, and you're like, oh, shit, Matt Damon, pretty cool scene. I mean, he promoted this movie as if he was in it anyway. Road trip Europe, whatever that was. There's a great casting, what if, that's even better than the Damon thing. Timothee Chalamet auditioned for Patrick and did not get it. What do you think of that one, Craig? Chalamet playing hockey? Doesn't have the frame.

Hedges is way better. I don't know if Chalamet gives me... You can tell it's draft season that you immediately went to his measurables. Yeah. He didn't run the cones that well. Chalamet doesn't give me like...

Middle class or lower class, East Coast. Chalamet's too much of an NYU kid to me. I mean, they're both NYU kids. I know, but Hedges has the ability to get there that I don't think Chalamet can do that. Hedges does have a Massachusetts feel to him, which I don't know how he pulled it off, but he definitely does. He's a New York kid, right? I mean, his father was a filmmaker. Chalamet, I don't know if I would have bought being from Manchester by the sea. They were on a collision course to Lady Bird. They both were pursuing Saoirse Ronan in that movie, too. Those are the two boyfriends.

Lucas Hedges and Chalamet. This is the first Lonergan film not to feature his wife, J. Smith Cameron. Jerry. Yeah. The goat. Who could she have played in this movie? She could have played the lady who's like, I don't want to fucking see him around here anymore. She could have played the friend's wife too and just cradled him, right? What the fuck? Put your wife in there. Couldn't she have been Sandy's mother? The one who made the Carbonara? Heather Burns. She would have been great. She was one of my that guys. All right. New category.

No prep for either of you. Okay. You can add one character from any other movie and put it in Manchester by the Sea. What if I was like Thanos? We're just test driving this one. I think Chris from The Town.

Who is she playing? She's at the bar. Oh, she's like, hey, Lee. I think she's like his first night back in the real world. It's like, come on. Hey, Lee. Oh, that's a really good one. We can make each other feel good. I was thinking Vince and Hannah. My kid's asleep. It's all right. Mother's watching her. Vince and Hannah for the police interrogation.

You guys were doing cocaine. Go on. You're walking to a Paki store at 2.30 in the morning. I like Chris from the town. That's great. Best that guy award has to be CJ Wilson, right? As George. He's a good one. Yeah, I like him. What about Anna Baryshnikov? Well, I had her for Dion Waiters. That's the second Patrick girlfriend.

Mikhail Baryshnikov's literally his daughter. His daughter, yeah. I did the Amazon pushdown and that popped up and I'm like, Baryshnikov? Yeah. I hadn't seen her in forever and she showed up in that movie Love, Lies, Bleeding that came out this year. And his other girlfriend is the girl from Moonrise Kingdom, right? It is, yeah. Kara Hayward. Yeah. And they had just been in Moonrise Kingdom together because Luke Hedges is in that too. Gretchen Ma for damn winners.

I mean, do you think, you don't think Michelle is in Dion Waiters? It's 12 minutes. Broderick's youth pastor guy is incredible. Yeah. That's an amazing, like, you know that guy so well with like four lines of dialogue. Just gonna go check on her in the kitchen. Did you get some green beans? I feel like Michelle Williams, even though it's 12 minutes, it's too, too big. She's the third biggest part of the movie, basically. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you want to do Tony Romo or Chris Collinsworth, the director's commentary? Should we skip? We'll skip that one. He forgot the screen, Jim! Oh my God. Let's go to the packing store. It's 2.30 in the morning, Jim! Oh my, he's just playing ping pong out there. Stay out of that quadrant. Half-asserted research. Christ, we're going to hell for that one.

Michelle Williams said, Lonergan himself was crying on set during some of the heavier scenes. That's when you know you have a sad movie when the director's just sobbing. He wrote it! Is Kenneth Lonergan windy on Waiters for his own movie? For being like, great parenting. Oh yeah, let's give him that. That's a good one. That's a great story. You mentioned Anna Baryshnikov. Lucas Hedges, the scene when he breaks down in front of the fridge, he said someone gave him some advice about

when you have an emotional scene to not talk to anybody for the entire day. And then you have this built up energy that then when you have to do the scene, it blows up. I thought that was good. A little inside the actor studio advice from Lucas. I'm doing that right now for this podcast. You haven't spoken to anyone all day. We've all had that moment too, right? You're standing in front of the freezer and you're like, why won't this shit fit in the freezer? And then you just have a little melt. It happens. The scene when the paramedics are trying to roll...

Michelle Williams is stretching the ambulance and it keeps falling. Yeah. Not scripted. Yeah. They actually couldn't get it in and Lonergan just kept it rolling. Kind of rips off Inherent Vice if I'm being honest. Wasn't this before Inherent Voice? No, it was Inherent Vice 2014. Okay. Where the gurney like falls. You know what I'm talking about? I do. Okay. Just sell it for me. It's a great note. You're obviously one of our keenest observers of cinema. It's an honor to sit next to you. Thank you so much.

Wasn't Heron Vice that was like a Showtime show? No, it was not a Showtime show. It was a Paul Thomas Anderson film. I'm kidding. Apex Mountain. Casey Affleck, it's either this or 07. Yeah. I mean, when's the Oscar? Yeah, it's got to be this. Lonergan? I'm going to say yes. I mean, he won the Oscar. It's a huge success. Yeah. He hasn't made a movie since. Nine years? Nine years. Is he working on anything?

I'll give him a call. It would be fun if we started doing more shit like that where we like called filmmakers on speakerphone like, Kenny! Sean, CR, and Bill! That's one thing I love. I rewatched the Oscar win.

First of all, Damon and Affleck presented Best Original Screenplay that year. Right. A little loaded. A little loaded moment. Yeah. Damon literally came up with the rough idea for the movie. But when he announces Lonergan, he says, Kenny Lonergan. Which is a real like... It's a real like we're in a club moment. Which is how the Oscars used to feel. Oscars doesn't really feel like that anymore. But it was a real like everybody here knows each other. You know what we didn't talk about for either... I don't know which is the worst, but for either Half-Assed Internet Research or Casting What Ifs is like...

Is fucking Krasinski up at night just being like, I can't believe I could have been in Manchester by the sea? So I really dug in on that one and it seems like he was floated initially, but by the time Lonergan was done with this. But I thought it was like, there's versions of the story that they tell where it's like he comes to Damon being like, we should do something about a working class guy in Boston. He has to go back to his... Well, he's an EP on the movie. Yeah. Do you think he could have handled this machine? No.

Would you put him behind the wheel of this one? It's just not. I haven't seen him do it in a movie. The kind of thing that he does. I will say, A Quiet Place is not something I ever would have thought in a million years he would have been capable of as a director, Krasinski. So I don't want to rule him out. Casey at least had the Gone Baby gone. There was a little bit of a backbone of like, we've seen him in a dark movie like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michelle Williams, I'm going to say no. What is her Apex Mountain? Venom.

Yeah, definitely Venom. Is it like Fosse-Verdon? Is it Blue Valentine? Nobody really saw that compared to like Brokeback and this. That's a really good question. Should we take a look? I feel like it was that Blue Valentine kind of era. That's when she had established herself as like she can be in any movie she wants basically. Which I think is where she wanted to get to. Her IMDb is really interesting. She's been in a whole bunch of stuff.

Yeah, she goes, Synecdoche, New York, Wendy and Lucy, Blue Valentine, Shutter Island, Meeks Cut Off. Oh my God, she was in Shutter Island. And then she plays Marilyn Monroe. I think she was nominated for an Oscar for My Week with Marilyn, and then Manchester by the Sea. Take this, Walt, and then Manchester by the Sea. Boy, that's kind of crazy that she was in Shutter Island, because it's basically a very similar plot line. Yes. Apex Mountain for Manchester by the Sea, I'm going to say no question. The actual town. Sure.

Do you know it was called Manchester for years? And then they changed it. They somehow legally changed the name in the late 80s. Was it because the Manchester? We always called it Manchester, but then...

Now it's Manchester by the Sea. People kept showing up there being like, are her Joy Division formed here? Was that like to distinguish it from the city in England? Or was it to... I think partly... Tourism? Well, I guess if you put by the sea in there, people are like, oh, let's see. If you're doing a North Shore day trip and you were going down the coast, Gloucester was always the end or you could go all the way down to Rockport. It's like Carmel. Isn't it Carmel by the Sea? It is. Apex Mountain for rock bottom movies?

We'll find out. I don't think so because I think it's a pretty funny movie. And I think it's, I think, I think some of our other picks are less funny. Okay. Like there's some movies that we're going to do that are like not funny at all. Yeah. Can't wait. Craig's like calling in sick. Lucas Hedges? No. What is? Oscar nominated. Yeah. Given where his career has gone and what he's chosen to do, it's pretty high up there. It is.

And it's also like, if he doesn't take this movie and Chalamet gets it, does Lucas Hedges wind up being in Dune? You know, like, do these guys just do a career swap? Muad'Dib? Lucas Hedges? Yeah. I don't see it. I don't buy it. I don't see it. Kyle Chandler, no. Dune's on my list. I think you would like it. Kyle Chandler, no. North Shore movies. What's up there? It's kind of this versus Perfect Storm and Coda. Lovey.

Wish we could get some Purpose Storm people. Got these kittens. New category. Is she from New England? Not Boston. I feel really good about this one. Cruiser Hanks. Okay, there's a couple different ways to read this. Wood in their pomp...

So basically 37-year-old Cruz and Hanks fit into this? Listen, it's just called Cruz or Hanks. You can interpret it any way you want. It would be Hanks. For the lead role? For the lead role, Cruz or Hanks. But wouldn't you want... We're going to keep track of this every Rewatchables and eventually have a scorecard of Cruz versus Hanks. I love this idea. Thank you. Love it. But what if Cruz was young Patrick?

Young Cruz. Risky business Cruz. All the right moves Cruz as Patrick. This is why you're who you are. That's pretty good. Could he do it? He could do it. Outsiders Cruz. He could do it. Sometimes you just gotta say, what the fuck? I have two girlfriends. That's what I'm saying. Cock of the walk. Hockey. Two girlfriends. Band. You know, he would have learned to play guitar just to do like two scenes. How old is... Which year, Hanks, are we going? Like...

We're going like Philadelphia era Tom Hanks, like early 90s. A little younger than that, right? But yeah, that era, you'd have to adjust it a little bit. Early teenage Cruise is really good. He would crush it. I also think Hanks would have been a great lead. Not a great joke. But the category is Cruiser Hanks, and it's for the lead part.

Well, who's the Leafs? Sadly. I guess it is Casey Affleck. Yeah. So I'm going to say Hanks. Even though the idea that I gave you was really strong? No, the idea you gave, you had a good end around, but it was Cruz or Hanks for the weed roll. All right. So one point Hanks in the lifetime ruling. Craig, are you good with Cruz? Cruz losing to Hanks in that one? For the lead, yes, but I love that idea too. Yeah. Okay. Good category. Cruz or Hanks. Wow.

I'm trying to think of what would be the funniest movie to do that for. You know, like Malcolm X. Yeah. Boys of the Hood. Parasite would be funny. Yeah. Something from this movie...

A name from this movie, racehorse, rock band, wrestler, or fantasy team name. Stentorian wins because it actually was a rock band. Yeah, that's it. But Stentorian's a great name for a horse. Stentorian's good. Yeah, Stentorian can kind of work for anything. What's the bird? Claudia Marie. Claudia Marie. And that's their mom? Yeah. Love that reveal too when they show the headstone. Yeah, it's great writing. All right, so pick and knits. No Paki stores open at 3 a.m. in Massachusetts.

I don't really know what that is. It's like where he goes to buy beer. But like what is it? It's not 7-Eleven? It's a package store. It's where you get like takeout. Called a package store. Okay. But it's like. So it's not a 24-7. It's kind of pre-7-Eleven. It's fine. You definitely find them in the kind of little further away from Boston, Massachusetts. They'll have stores like that or little gas stations combined with stuff. But they're all closed after 11. You're not buying anything from them. Yeah. So a little end around on that one. Can't chase the night.

Can't you? Did we need a scene where they go to a bees game? I definitely felt like there was much more to do with the hockey stuff. We didn't see Joe and Lee really click too.

So maybe they click at a bees game. Well, they click when they're out on the boat with young Patty. But that's showing us that Joe would choose Lee to take care of Patrick. Yeah. But we don't see... I mean, you know, this is... And you can count on me, one of the great brother-sister movies. We didn't really talk about this earlier, but one of the things that was really interesting when I was reading Lonergan interviews is, you know, people are like, is this about guilt? And he's like, well, it is.

So really, it's about grief. And at one point, he's like, but this movie is also about loyalty and about how loyalty is strange. Like, what do we decide that we owe people? Like, and is it because you have the same last name or is it just because you're their friends? And at the end, you know, he winds up being adopted by George. There's a financial incentive. But there is also like a sense of community. And I guess like the thing that's kind of cool is that

Joe saves Lee's life after the fire. He basically clearly props him up and gets him the furniture and stuff like that. I really like the idea that there can be loyalty without there necessarily being chemistry. You guys don't know. You don't have a brother. We hung out with the fantasy siblings. That was really nice. My brother is the best. My brother would...

definitely not leave me in charge of his kids though. My wife had that as a nitpick that he didn't tell Lee ahead of time that he was going to be the guardian for the kid. And I was like, well, the reason he didn't do that was because he knew Lee would say no to that. It's the ultimate same game parlay. He's like, I'm betting Patty that this guy's going to fucking... With the Rockets to make the playoffs in plus 550. Yeah.

Why did Joe pick a burial plot that was frozen for three months a year? Isn't that just Massachusetts? I also think it's like... Is this a thing? Like if you die in December in Massachusetts... I don't know. I was like, this is like, if not biblical, it's almost like out of Russian literature. It is, yeah. Where it's like, we have to wait for the earth to thaw, but when the earth thaws, I will thaw. Yes, yeah. That's a very writerly, playwright convention that he's got in the movie.

That's the same with the ball. You know, like the ball being thrown away and instead of letting it go, he goes and he catches and he grabs the ball and he brings it back. He's like, I'm not going to give up. I'm not going to give up on you. You know, he does that. This is like a really hardcore nitpick, but Manchester is nicer than...

It's a little less blue collar than depicted in this movie. Yeah, he said... I don't think I ever went there, but he says it has a lot of different character because in the summer, it's very rich. Yeah. In the off-season, it's more working class. It's a pretty upscale town. The last one I had was...

Again, we made a good case for how there's stuff intentionally left out that actually helps the story. With that said, a flashback scene with drunk Gretchen Maul would have been amazing. Yeah. And I kind of wish it was in here. We get one of her laid out on the couch. That's the only thing that really indicates that she's got some. Yeah. Although they've got no patience for her when Joe's getting the diagnosis. Yes. Yeah. You know, they're just like, will you relax? Yeah. Please stop.

So she seemed like she was maybe a handful. Let her cook. Let Gretchen cook for one scene. You should advocate for doing Rock Bottom Month to have directors go back and do director's cuts of Now With More Bottom. Seven added scenes of absolutely harrowing shit. Yeah. You just reminded me that the movie Seven would be pretty good for Rock Bottom Month. We've obviously already done that, but that's not a movie that ends very happily. Maybe we'll do it again.

You have any pick and nits, Chris? Not really, no. I'm hung up on Patty just not giving Lee a fucking break. Yeah.

Would you give your... Come on. I can't go back to being 16. I mean, I wouldn't give you a break today. Yeah. But I... I don't know. His two girlfriends would find out about each other immediately. Yeah. That's a good nitpick. She knows. Yeah. Sandy knows. She says it at the end, but it's not working. She seems to be like a little bit more okay with that lifestyle. I don't get the impression that Sylvie would have appreciated the two-timing. Yeah. These kids aren't on Instagram in 15? Good copy.

Early. Yeah. Yeah. Early Instagram, but you have it. Definitely. Not that early. I had Instagram in like 2010. Yeah. 2011. I was trying to think for girls. Yeah, I guess my daughter was 11. Yeah, I guess. Huge missed opportunity when you asked the Dune 2 question to drop a Dune 2 chicks at the same time joke right there.

I love that tweet. It's amazing. It's one of the best. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, evil laughing Ramon Raymond, or Philip Baker Hall?

It's actually, this list is getting so long, but I have to add another name. I cut some people. I have to add another name. Who? And it's, would it be better if Sergeant Dignam from The Departed was the hockey coach? Oh, you think you're Sean fucking Thornton? You think you're an enforcer playing for the bees? You up there with your little girlfriend playing hide the calzone? Let's add him. You dropping your ass? That's a great one. Dignam.

Love that guy. You're in the big, bad, southy projects with your daddy, the fucking donkey. You lace curtain motherfucker. Should Chris from the town be added to that category? Maybe it should just be all fictional characters. Maybe we just lose Danny Trejo. We lose everybody. Just one Oscar who gets it. I would say Lonergan. Yeah, he did. Not Michelle?

Well, Affleck won and Lonergan won. So we got it basically. Those are our two choices. Just saying we could go revise our choices. Tate Donovan. You're going to take Viola Davis's Oscar for Fences? Fucking tears and snot are coming out of her face. Maybe this film really was about race, Chris. It just became.

Oh, fuck. Yeah, let's give it to you. Fences is a good Hanks or Cruz. Fences is perfect, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta go Hanks there.

Just want to ask her who gets it. We did it. We did not do probably unanswerable questions. Did Stentorian ever put out an album? No, but I do think they play a couple parties and that's where the girls find out about each other. Oh, that's. Yeah. So that could be the Indian Reds. What happened the next day? The two girls fighting at a Stentorian party. Stay on that boat all summer because those girls are hunting for him. Did you talk about Patty's issues with the condom?

Seem to be like, that's almost like a joke from 1987 to me. Is that supposed to be also like a little bit of a like he has no parental guidance? Right. He's like, yeah, I talked to my dad about it, but like he's not being raised, you know? So you sat down with your father and had a long conversation about how to apply a condom? I can promise you I've not had that conversation with my son. I was 23 years old. Should I be talking to my son about that? That's maybe for the mailbag.

This is a question for Sean. That's rock bottom month for Bill. Right now. Probably an answerable question just for Sean. Why is Matthew Broderick so weird in every fucking movie, really, for like 15 years? How did this become Matthew Broderick's career? Him just playing weird side characters. This was Ferris Bueller. He in...

election and then you can count on me in the very small window plays like two of the most like sniveling awful take advantage of your female counterpart in a movie characters and it felt like at the time he was like I'm gonna completely subvert what you think I'm gonna do I'm not cool Ferris Bueller anymore I'm a character actor I'm gonna take these parts fast forward 15 more years I don't know why he's still doing those parts but he seems to have settled on this strategy I don't know maybe he thinks it's funny

Is he just furious that he didn't get Ice Storm and that Kevin Kline got his part? And he's just like, I'm just going to be trying to make that up for the rest of my life? Great question. I think being married to Sarah Jessica Parker means that he can do whatever he wants. He also, he's on the stage. Like on the stage, he still does. Yeah. You know, he's in the producers for Christ's sake. Like that's huge. And he's able to be the star of the show. I think with movies, he's like, I just like to fuck around and play these like little snivelly little dweebs. I don't get it.

Obviously, I had to research what Celtics-Mavs game that was. Yeah, that's an Isaiah Thomas is featured, right? Yep. November 18, 2015. Celts lost 106-102. Wow. Dirk had 23. Isaiah had 19. And Jared Sullinger with a double-double. 18-12. Oh, man, Sully. Yeah. That 2016 team. Is he out of the league? Yeah, he got hurt. He had a bad back. Best double-featured choice for this movie. I would say You Can Count on Me. Very good.

Start with that, then finish with this. Good Will Hunting is an interesting one. Because they're similar worlds. I'm going to throw Shutter Island out there. Sure. I thought you said the town. No. I liked your Andean Red Zawad Neoward, so we'll go with that. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Probably nothing. Well, you'd like the boat, right?

The boat would be cool. If it's just the memorabilia, you don't have to invest. A reader had a suggestion that we should only pick... If you could change it to Isaiah Thomas is the name? No, we should only pick memorabilia that can fit through a door. Oh, okay. Because we always pick the car. The fireplace screen? I like a lot of Casey Affleck's sweatshirts. What's that? It's the fireplace screen from Manchester by the Sea. It'd be tough. A lot of Lee's sweatshirts are pretty cool to me. His sweatshirts? Oh, he does have some cool clothes. And he's got the dugout cafe shirt that he wears in every scene. Yeah. The coach Finstock will wear a best life lesson. Sometimes you can't beat it.

You just can't. You can't bring a distraction to the ice? What if I was just like, did this entire pod and I just insisted that this is a hockey movie? Do you think you'd be a good hockey coach? This is about a great hockey player who got distracted? You know, Chris fantasizes about coaching our kids in soccer. This is like what he really wants from us.

for the world. Can you phrase that differently? Of course, fantasize. This is about being a soccer coach for our little kids. Like being like a 10-year-old soccer coach? I want to be like the Jose Mourinho of Sean's kid. Yeah. Just like setting her up for success. And our friends too. All of us who have little kids. Did you ever want to be the guy who's like...

I'm running this club. I'm running this team for your kids. I tried my daughter's school. I wanted to be the eighth grade basketball coach for the boys. And I was like, this is fair because she's on the girl's side and they wouldn't let me do it. I honestly wouldn't. I really wanted to do it. I was like, they had a rule that the coach had to work for the school, but I was ready to do it. That was ringer days. Ringer days? Oh, yeah. That was mid-2010s. It would have been really cool if you had then gotten a job coaching against Ben. Teach him. Teach him.

Maybe you'll learn something that might beat your ass every time we play. That's a sports movie idea right there. I was so fired up to do it too. And they were just like, absolutely not. The rewatch was probably never happens. I was like, I can't, got a game. We're playing Turning Point at 4.30. It's a vicious Turning Point. We're just in fucking eighth grade basketball. It's like, great call, Bill. What an ATO. Remember, I took you guys to Zoe's fifth grade game that time. It was super fun. But I like the older ones. Lonergan winning the movie.

Yeah. I guess so. I made that speech about how it's okay to only make four movies, but man, I would just love to see a movie by him soon. Wouldn't that be great? Maybe he's where, there's no way he's done. I don't know. Jerry, she got all that succession money. You know, he may not, he may be living high on the hog right now. What do you got, Craig? I had seen this movie. I saw it the year it came out. And I think it was way better the second time around when you know what's coming.

Because then you can appreciate and sit back and look at everything else. There's so much dread the first time around that it's like such a tough watch and you come out of it just going like, my God, that's the saddest movie I've ever seen. But the second time around, I liked it so much more because yeah, I just appreciated the filmmaking so much more. It's so simple and very well-paced. It's really well edited. The woman who edited Oppenheimer, Jennifer Lane. Oh, Jennifer Lane did this? Yeah. She did. Yeah.

You kind of just can't look away from this movie. It's so slow and so quiet. And yet I found myself just like sitting there with like my arms crossed, just like quietly staring at this movie for two hours, which is incredible. I think it's a 10 out of a 10 of a movie, but,

You'd go over and watch it again. Probably not. Yeah. But you know what's funny is like if you removed the three devastating, most devastating scenes from this movie, it's like, and it came out today, it'd be like one of the third, top three funniest movies of the year. Like this movie is like funnier than like Ricky Stinicki. Yeah.

It also feels like those outside Providence-style coming-of-age movies minus the mega tragedy. Yeah, you just pull those three scenes out and it's Lee and Pat. This is a comedy. Yeah. That's kind of how the movie is sold a little bit in the trailer. I don't know if you guys rewatched the trailer. But there's a middle part of the trailer that's just like...

The funny stuff? What's the Peter Gabriel song that's in every trailer? Salisbury Hill. It sounds like it should be set to Salisbury Hill, you know, and they're like fighting in the house. It's like, I can't get in unless you unlock the door. Should trailers be a rewatchables category?

I'm upset we were just talking about this I'm obsessed with them now 90s and 2000s you're talking about the new Alien trailer you can't have a bad Alien trailer there's just everyone you're just like home run I was telling them I went to the new Beverly and they showed the trailer for Up Close and Personal the Robert Redford Michelle Pfeiffer movie and I was like I remember that movie being perfectly fine but after I saw the trailer I was like let's fucking go like I am ready to watch this movie now it had the in a world guy it was awesome yeah they used to be so good yeah maybe we should add trailers

All right. That's it for the pod produced by Craig Koralbeck as always. Do you want to tease what's next or do you not know? We don't know yet. Okay. I'll do it on my Thursday pod. All right. Good to see you, Craig. Good to see you, CR and Sean. Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Bill.