‘The Fugitive’ Live From Chicago With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin
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The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the Bill Simmons Podcast. You can find The Watch with Chris Ryan. You can find the House of R podcast with Mallory Rubin. You can find the Fantasy Football Show and the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Craig Krolbeck. The four of us were in Chicago last week because we did the Rewatchables cold weather tour. We went to Chicago. We went to Washington. We went to Philly. We went to New York. It was awesome. We absolutely loved seeing everybody. The crowds were great.

We had a blast. It did not feel like work. It did not feel like we were going to run out of gas. You get so much energy from that stuff. And it was just an absolute delight. You know, I've had this podcast for seven years. We've done, I think almost 325 movies at this point, but, um,

You know, we keep adding categories over the years and keep adding different characters, different bits, but we still love doing it. We're glad that there are people out there that love listening to it. And it was an absolute blast to do the podcast four times in five days. Van Lathan joined us eventually. Sean Fantasy joined us in DC. We did Forrest Gump, uh,

I don't even have a favorite one. I thought all four of them went great and we love seeing everybody. So thank you. Thanks for everybody that came out. This is The Fugitive. We did it in Chicago. I think it'll be fun to listen to. We did it the first time me and Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald did it, I think six years ago. So we blew it out. The crowd was awesome. Here it is. The Re-Fugitive live from Chicago. All right, listen up. We have The Fugitive that's been on the run for 90 minutes.

What I want out of each and every one of you is a hard target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, hen house, outhouse, or dog house in this area. What's that going down? I didn't kill my wife! Harrison Ford is The Fugitive. Rated PG-13. Open August 6th. Call 777-FILM for advance tickets. Thank you. Hello. Hello.

Chicago, not that cold. Come on, overrated. It's great. Thanks for coming out. Thank you to Honda. I'd like to introduce you to the mother of dragons, Mallory Ribbon. And over in the corner, you know him as Byron Mayo. You know him as Wayne Jenkins. Yeah. As Harling Mays. The one, the only CR, Chris Ryan. On the greats. Woo, woo, woo, woo! Woo, woo, woo, woo!

Bill, I know that we have a presenting sponsor in Honda, but I just want to give a shout out to everybody from Devlin McGregor. Yeah. We made tonight possible. It's the work that you do that makes us do the work that we do. Thank you, Provasic. So we're doing four movies in five nights here. We're going to DC next and Philly and New York. We wanted to pick movies that tied into the city in some way. So naturally, The Fugitive, you guys agree with that choice? Yeah.

Pretty great Chicago movie. I have a long history of this. I saw this in the theater. One of my best friends from high school, Jim Grady, he absolutely loved action movies. He loved Harrison Ford. And we went to this and when he really loved the movie, he would do, we would leave the movie and he would go,

wow. And we left this movie and he let out a wow with like 15 W's at the end. It was, we were both just so freaking satisfied. Chris, when did you see it? I think I saw it when it came out and I think I saw it multiple times in that August that it came out. It was like, we run it back like immediately. It was such an entertaining movie and it had that

Not only was it like a Harrison Ford action movie in the summer, but it was also something that the critics loved too, which was sort of this weird kind of like, you don't always get the blockbuster, the critical acclaim, and then later the awards. Mal Saka, she's in love with Harrison Ford. When did your love start? I was seven when this movie came out. And probably then, you know, I've said before, I learned about sex from watching Witness, my favorite Harrison Ford movie.

It was really all just part of an education. Did he have sex and witness? No, he watches Rachel take a sponge bath, remember, from across the hall. That's what ushered you through puberty? Yeah, they dance to Sam Cooke in the barn while they're fixing the car. To this day, Mal cannot see a barn get raised without needing to pull over. Thinking of Harrison Ford and Viggo Mortensen, two of my faves. Can you explain the Harrison Ford appeal over the years to you? To me and to, I think, everyone, because he is one of our...

truly undeniable superstars, right? Like the run that he has, I mean, obviously it really all begins for him with New Hope in 77, but his 80s into early 90s run. You mean Star Wars? That's the real goal of the tour is to get Bill to understand Star Wars. We'll see how many mentions we can sneak in tonight. Are you familiar with Han Solo? Yeah, I knew it was Star Wars. Okay. So,

The run that he has from Empire in 80, Raiders in 81, et cetera, et cetera, right? You go to Blade Runner, on and on and on it goes. Yeah.

Into right around here, because you have Air Force One in 97, but there's a little bit of a lull between this and 93 and Air Force One in 97. That run, 80s, early 90s, is untouchable in the history of movies. Now, we're getting the four descents now. I don't know who else is enjoying 1923. Yeah. Other than us, shrinking, et cetera, right? Dial of Destiny, of course, Indy 5. But he's like the franchise king.

action hero king. He plays Indiana Jones and Han Solo, two of the most iconic characters in the history of movies. And he can also be not only convincing, but incredibly compelling as an intellectual, right? He plays a lot of doctors, a lot of investigators, a lot of lawyers. And you think he's hot. And he's the most handsome person who has ever lived. What?

These are our friends. Why are you pretending? He passed you the ball like 30 seconds ago and you've just been dribbling. I wanted to at least talk about one or two things other than how much we all want to fuck Harrison Ford before we got there. And now that's what we can do for the next 90 minutes together. So what Mal alluded to there was the best 17-year popcorn movie run anyone's ever had. Three Star Wars, three Indiana Jones.

Do you count Apocalypse Now for him, CR? I'll throw it in there. Why not? Sure. Great one-scene cameo. Blade Runner and Witness, Working Girl, Presumed Innocent, and Mosquito Coast. He made the funniest movie of the 90s regarding Henry. Great one. I don't know if you guys saw that one. Great one. Hilarious. It's that, yeah. Now under comedy at Netflix. Patriot Games. Then in 94, he makes The Fugitive and Clear and Present Danger. This is like, there's never been a run like this.

It's the ultimate... I think he has the approval rating where it's just like all guys want to be him, want to hang out with him. Women would like to be with him in Mallory's case. I think everyone would like to be with him. Honestly, on a cold dart knocking to Chicago... Open your mind. Yeah. If Dr. Richard Kimball needed a ride, you never know what would happen. What's happening right now? I'm just saying he's got a high approval rating for sure. Yeah. Well...

You know, it had a high approval rating. I had bought a DVD player, I think in 96. The first time I actually made enough bartending money to buy something, I bought like a 55-inch TV. I bought a DVD player and I bought the surround sound thing. And DVDs were just coming out. And this was the first great DVD I ever owned. And the train crash, which...

It was the first time that had ever happened. I was probably pretty stoned at the time. The train crash, it came from one window to the other. And it was like one of the coolest moments of my life. And I was like, is this where life is going? Where we get to watch movies at home and they sound cool and look cool? Is this our future? And guess what it was? It was. Yeah. And that train crash is so iconic because they had one shot at it, right? Like that was like kind of old school movie making for the new era where it's just like,

we're going to throw this train off the tracks one time if we mess this up. No movie. They threw a Harrison Ford mannequin off the train. Yeah. Now they would CGI the whole thing. Not with Harrison Ford. He'd say, I'm out there. I'm doing the stunt. I've torn every ligament and tendon in my body making movies and I won't stop now. Cruise would have been like, can I hang off the train as it goes and I'll jump? Um,

Two unusual achievements for this movie. It is the only remake of a TV series to be nominated for a Best Picture Oscar.

There's only been seven action movies in the last 50 years that have been nominated for an Oscar. And Harrison Ford was in two of them. So this came out. People loved it. People are nuts. Roger Ebert called Ford. He said, once again, the great modern movie, Everyman, which I think is a good way to say it. Yeah.

Relatable. You can buy him as a doctor. You can buy him as a construction worker. What else? Like as an archaeologist in the 1940s. A professor, a newscaster. For sure. A Blade Runner. Yeah, nothing says every man like the hottest person who's ever lived. You can buy him as a douchebag who gets shot and then finds out he has to become a good person. In my favorite movie regarding Henry. It's a great one.

So why is this such a great Chicago movie, CR? What does it bring to the table? I think it probably is because of the amount of the local architecture, the local landscape that it takes in from everything from L train chases to even like Mal and I were walking around to get over here and you see the backs of buildings with the little like wooden staircases in the back for all the apartment buildings. And you're like, hey, that's where the pedophile heroin dealer lives. Like, that's awesome. You guys did it. You know, it's just like...

Great mustaches. Is it the same like four cops with mustaches and accents in every single movie? They just grab them from ER or wherever they get them. We get the Green River. Yeah. St. Patrick's Day parade. It feels properly cold during this movie. They filmed it during the winter. Ford said, apparently Ford grew up in Chicago. Do you guys know this?

He went to college in Wisconsin, loser. And then came back, did summer jobs here and was really pushing for them to film it in Chicago, which this was this run in the late, in the early nineties where they started filming these movies in the cities. Like this is when Blown Away came to Boston. Yeah, Philadelphia they did there. So I always felt like this was like a pure Chicago movie. I mean, Ferris Bueller is probably still a notch above it though, right?

Oh, I mean, they're not watching The Fugitive in True Detective Night Country. Right. You know? It's true. We also had the Tommy Lee Jones Renaissance. Yeah. Official. JFK. Chris was going to wear his Clay Shaw wig today, but he decided not to. Under Siege and then The Fugitive and we are off. Sam Gerrard. One of the greats. Why is Sam Gerrard such a great character?

I'd like to not answer the question and instead share something with you both that I've been waiting half a decade to say to you. You've done this movie on the rewatchables before. Early on. First season. Early days. We had like five categories. Yeah. Hour long pod. It's nine minutes before the categories begin. Greenwald was there. It was wonderful. Wonderful podcast, as they all are with the three of you. Nearly the entire podcast was about Tommy Lee Jones and Sam Gerrard.

instead of being about Harrison Ford as Dr. Richard Kimball. I think we talked about Julianne Moore like at least for five minutes or something like that. That's true. And Jerome Brown.

Crabb got as much TRT as Harrison Ford, I think. It was a Tommy Lee gush fest. And that's valid. But the genius of the movie is the chess match between the two of them. Neither role works without the other. In our defense, can I make the case, which I may be plagiarizing myself, but I think that if this is just Harrison Ford and the replacement level U.S. Marshal,

It's like a B-plus movie. It's like really, really good. Sam, the Sam character, Tommy Lee Jones, takes this into A territory. Like when he shows up 25 minutes in, it's on. It's so great.

He chews up the scenery. Yes. Roger Ebert said he has the charm of a hangman promising to make things as comfortable as possible. Raj. He gets all the best lines. He does get, he gets all the best lines in the movie. All of them. So, Tommy Lee did not think this was going to be a big movie because he told Joey Pants,

It's not like anyone is going to win any awards for this film. It's an actual quote from Tommy Lee Jones. Seven Oscar nominations. And Tommy Lee won Best Supporting Actor. And it got a Best Picture nom. Yeah. The single weirdest category, I think, in the history of Best Picture. Let's hear it. The Fugitive, The Piano, In the Name of the Father, Remains of the Day, and Schindler's List. Which one? Yeah. Like, imagine reading that card. Cheerful movie year. Jesus. Yeah.

Tommy Lee beat DiCaprio, Malkovich, Ralph Fiennes, and Pete Postlewaite. Postlewaite. Postlewaite. You're good the first time. Do you want to just do flower shop guy now? It gave her a little taste. Your mother wanted a taste. And then we have Andrew Davis, the director, who ripped off, I mean, probably one of the great Chicago directors ever. Code of Silence. You guys in on that, Chuck Norris? Yeah.

Above the Law, The Package, which is really good and is on, I think Amazon now or Netflix. Under Siege. Throwing a little love to Amazon and Netflix. And The Fugitive. And it seems like he's on pace to become the greatest action movie director of all time. And then this is kind of the peak.

I don't know what happened. Did he do Siege 2? Did he do Under Siege 2? Did not do Siege 2. Here's my thing. So I was going to say that like, so Andrew Davis did some like interviews for the 30th anniversary for The Fugitive towards the end of last year.

And he was really articulate about how this was an era. The blockbuster era is still going. It's like the post-Jaws Hollywood blockbuster era. But at Warner's and at some other studios, they were still content with hitting doubles, was what he said. Was that the guys who ran Warner's were like, yeah, just go hit a double. It's fine. And he's like the best double hitter you can get. You know what I mean? He's not necessarily going to make Jurassic Park

But like, if you let him do his, if you let him cook with Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford, you're going to get the fugitive. And as I guess they just stopped trying to hit doubles. There's a lot of connective tissue with under siege to like multiple guys, Tommy Lee's in it. We did under siege in the rewatch was recently, um, rotten tomatoes. This movie has a 96% rating.

Who the fuck were the 4%? There's always someone. Against the fugitive. Like, are those people in prison? Like, what? I just... Do you think they thought it was an unfair depiction of prisoners? I don't understand it. It's the people who run the official Devlin McGregor blog. It's pharmaceutical company people and one-armed people. Here's what you have to understand about livers. The film critic for devlinmcgregor.com. CR, do your thing about how this is three different movies in the same movie.

Well, I mean, so that's actually like, I would say that's the first 25 minutes not to step on rewatchable scene, but they get the, uh,

like basically the 90s thriller, Husband Wrongly Accused. You get a trial. There's a whole courtroom drama we don't get to see. Then we get the prison break and then it is like lone man seeking justice out in the world with a cop who's willing to hear him out eventually. And so like you wind up getting like multiple thrillers in the same movie, which is actually kind of the best. Like when you think about how long this movie could have been if they were like, no, he needs to spend more time on what happened in the trial. It's like, I actually don't think that that's a good idea. You want to get him-

defense attorney? No, he did not. His defense attorney was just like, I have a tea time. Let's see if we can save you from the chair. Yeah. That will be coming up in Picking Nets. We're kind of racing through the top because we have so many questions about all these things. $44 million budget made $368.9 million. It was the second biggest 1993 movie behind. Anybody? Jurassic Park. Our guy, Roger Ebert.

Applause. He's not here. Jesus. Terrible. It was like a nice moment for like, it was hanging in the air. Yeah. I probably ruined that one. Yeah. Four stars from Raj. He said it was one of the best entertainments of the year. Tense talk and expert thriller. And he said it has all the standards of an earlier, more classic time. Do you think Raj missed a zag there?

You know, like it's like it's Chicago. It's his backyard. Do you think he could have been like, I don't know about that. Like, I don't know about like they missed some of the geography was off. Yeah. That would have been a tough zag for him. I know. Historically, though. Yeah. He said it was one of the year's best films. So. So how many of is everyone familiar with what we do on this podcast?

We have a bunch of categories and we go through them and we talk about the movie basically through the categories and every once in a while, CR loses his mind. And that's basically the podcast. First category is most rewatchable scene. So I got the opening interrogation. Yes. Are you suggesting I killed my wife? How dare you? How dare you? You find this man. Financially, you're not going to be hurting after this then, are you? I mean, she was worth quite a bit of money.

Are you suggesting that I killed my wife? You're saying that I crushed her skull and that I shot her? How dare you? When I came home, there was a man in my house. I fought with this man. He had a mechanical arm. You find this man. You find this man. How tall is he? Everything from me. You find this man!

I think this is the perfect opportunity to toast one of the best things, the true treasure and gift that Harrison Ford has given us as an actor, which is his hand acting. Obviously, Blade Runner reaching over the roof, the most iconic example. And there are a number of wonderful Pantheon hand acting moments from Harrison Ford in this film. But when he is doing the crushed her soul, it's like, no wonder they think you did it. You're miming.

driving a marble ball into her head. So, CR, this scene was improvised mostly? Yeah. A lot of this movie is written by Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford apparently. They have Harrison Ford. They have the Chicago crafts doing their accents. Although they probably really were from Chicago and they're just like fire questions at him.

And Harrison Ford, you improv as a guy who's realizing that he's wrongly accused of killing his wife. And it works. Yeah. So I think he might have improvised... The response. How dare you? Well, and they're like...

Doc, you got a good security system, huh? Your wife's pretty rich, huh? Did you ask her to offer life insurance yesterday, huh? I don't have a very good Chicago accent. It's pretty great. That's the thrust of it. Better than mine. Somehow they knew about the insurance policy in like two hours. I don't know how they just got that one up on the internet. They just get straight to it, yeah. I like that scene. I've seen this movie so many times, I now get mad.

at some of the facts. Like, how? Why doesn't he get all... You just go down Nipick Island immediately. Next one I got is... I got to lump all this stuff together. The bus fight. The crash of the bus. Yeah. Leading into the train crash. Yes. Leading into Tommy Lee showing up. I feel like it's one... Is it fair to say that's one long... It's the first 24 minutes and 20 seconds is what it is. Is that too long for a scene? Probably unvilely. Not tonight. No. No. No.

So would you go one of the best action scenes ever or would you go one of the best for its time now has been surpassed because we have Tom Cruise jumping off? It depends on what screen you're watching it on. Like I think that there are better versions and worse versions to look at for the, because sometimes you look and you're like, that is not Harrison Ford running next to a runaway train. I'm pretty sure they couldn't get bonded for that, but it still is pretty thrilling. Like, and that train going off the tracks is like, that's a train going off the tracks. What do you think about that?

I always think of those as separate scenes just because the bus crash, train crash, you have like the little like prisoners in cahoots, right? You have some just fabulous visual filmmaking. Like when we see the train bearing down, we've got the shot of the dead guy's sneakers framed in the shattered window. Iconic, right? Early sneakerhead culture right here, present in The Fugitive.

I was like, are they wearing Adidas in the jail? I was like freeze framing, zooming to, I got to get that 4K DVD. I think it looked like four stripes. It was hard to tell from that angle. And then the, What a maniac. The marshals arriving and taking over the investigation, that just feels much more like the rhythm of the

language of the film and how it's going to flow. So I think of them as separate, but I think it's hard to argue with the logic of separating them or of lumping them together either way because they're inextricable, right? Yeah, and it's also not for nothing, but it's basically the credit sequence. I mean, throughout that entire time, they're still rolling their credits over that right up until the crash. I like the rudimentary CGI. It's fun. Makes me nostalgic for that era.

I like when the other guys leave in Copeland and he says, hey, Copeland, be good. And the guy's just like, yeah, okay. Copeland's like, probably not. Gotta admit. Things are happening tonight, buddy. And then Tommy Lee comes in.

And the guy kind of shushes him. Yeah. And he's like, okay. And you just see his brain going. And then he does, oh, gee whiz, look here. You know, we're always fast and we find leg irons with no legs in them. Incredible line. Incredible line. And then we're off. And then he does, I don't know, how much do you want to do of the speech? Listen up, ladies and gentlemen. Our fugitive has been on the run for 90 minutes.

Average foot speed over uneven ground barring injury is 4 miles an hour. That gives us a radius of 6 miles. What I want out of each and every one of you is a hard target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, hen house, outhouse, or dog house in that area. Checkpoints go up in 15 miles. Your fugitive's name is Dr. Richard Kimball. Go get him.

Average foot speed over uneven ground barring injuries is four miles per hour. You think it's four miles an hour? I mean, if he's doing four miles per hour after a train crash, that's pretty good. You think he has that math just like in his head or does he have like a should you go for it on fourth down and should you go for the two point conversion like table? I don't think I can do four miles per hour after like a sweet green and a protein shake. Much less a bus crash? Yeah. Yeah.

And then he does the checkpoints go up at 15 miles. Your fugitive's name is Dr. Richard Kimball. So much derision for the medical community. You know what I like? You guys are convincing me. What I like about lumping these together is it's like the dissonance of Kimball on his own.

right? Isolation. This is when it begins. Like he doesn't even have his fellow prisoners anymore. And you get the introduction, not only of Sam as this instantly iconic character, but the marshals, the team, like the rapport and the rhythm, the in-jokes, right? Why do you always mother her? Like right away, you can feel all of that together. And then you have the element of like chance meetings and fate. Like we see all the prisoners in cahoots, but what would happen to Dr. Richard Kimball if the bus doesn't crash? Like,

Does he ever get a chance to go after the one-armed man? Is his dumbass lawyer ever going to appeal? I think the lawyer was done. Is that a wrap? Yeah. I think the lawyer was like, this is a one-shot deal for me. I'm not doing... Walter. Yeah. Next one is the damn jump. Yes. Yes. Just so you guys know, I love underground tunnel sewer action scenes. Spat 100 with me, 1,000, whatever it is. We got a gopher. Yeah. Yeah.

He doesn't shoot Sam, which is key. Because there's all these acts of kindness with Dr. Richard Kimball. So we don't actually think he killed his wife. Man of character. Sprinkling the wrongs. Like, oh, I'll walk away. But he's got that smile. The like, it's on. Tommy Lee, his first...

First glimpse of just how much Velcro he has on his body. Just covered in Velcro. So awesome. I've been trying to find that vest ever since. Nobody's ever had that much Velcro on. And then leading to him jumping off, which... Do you want to talk about it or you want to wait? No, I want to talk about the jump because the difference between seeing this at home and seeing this in the theater, that 50-foot screen with the dam when he jumps, it was just like a holy shit moment.

What happened? Where'd he go? We gotta get a Peter Pan right here off of this dam right here. Watch out. Boom. Holy shit. All right. Can we go home now? No. No. Come on. Holy shit. There's not a lot of those in action movies where you're just like, oh my God.

And then he does it. And you know he's not dead because we've seen the trailer and he's in other scenes. Because the movie would be 37 minutes long. I bet he survived that one. And then he tells Pants, the guy did a Peter Pan right off the stand right here. Unbelievable moment. Unbelievable moment. I have some questions, especially for a man of science, like Dr. Richard Kimball about the launch angle. Like...

really anywhere in the first four seconds after the jump you hit pause. He's head first toward the concrete. Like, it is astonishing. I'm glad you brought this up because I thought I would do a little bit of an investigation myself here tonight. So I went to physicsforums.com.

And here's just a quote. I apparently found the QAnon of diving off of dams. Dr. Richard Kimball was able to survive the dam jump due to a combination of factors. First, he was able to grab onto a tree branch during his fall. We do not see him do that.

That is not a thing that happens in the movie, nor are there trees growing out of the dam. Which slowed his descent and prevented him from hitting the water too hard. Like, maybe Wile E. Coyote gets to do that, but not... The tree branch hanging like 40 feet over? Additionally, the water below the dam was not very deep, which sounds like he would just go into the core of the earth, but according, fairly...

It provides a cushion for his impact. And finally, his training as a doctor likely helped him to properly position his body and protect his vital organs. And then there are drawings of him being like... So, thank you to physics forums. I think it's the most realistic scene in cinema history. Yeah. That last point about he's a doctor, so maybe he knows how to hold his body, it is clarifying something for me. I was going to save this for picking nits, but...

As we know, mere moments prior in the film, he's stitching up his own side and shooting himself in the ass. Yeah. That wound does not rupture. And more impressively and shockingly, the wallet that is in the ass pocket of the stolen trousers. I know. I lose my wallet four times a day. This guy jumps off a dam and still has it. Do you guys use Instagram Reels?

Yeah. Yeah, we use them to watch you taking walks into traffic, talking about basketball, offering Bill Belichick podcasts. Well, the algorithm feeds you, I guess, what you're watching. Uh-huh. So my algorithm at this point...

It's just car crashes and people jumping off things where things go wrong. So I was watching under the Instagram reel prism of every time I see this on Instagram reels, the guy's jumping and then just hits the side of the mountain and rolls down. Ford as Kimbo, just perfect swan dive. I don't know how he did it. Yeah, unbelievable. I've never seen that.

This is a short one, but I really like the, when they bust Copeland, the comic from before, which is leads to the, I don't bargain. I don't bargain. But if you watch this scene, I've seen this movie enough times.

It's a wide shot of the bedroom. Copeland's in there. He's not having sex with whoever he's with. There is a giant naked lady painting over the bed that is like the biggest naked lady painting. Do people actually have these or did they, the prop person was like, hey, you know what? He probably should. I don't know. You want to go out and see if we can find a naked lady painting? It's huge. The only other time I've ever seen it was The Shining with Scatman Crothers. Yeah.

He had two naked lady paintings. How would it change your opinion of this movie if you found out Scatman Crothers painted the naked lady painting in the future? The Scatman Crothers collection. Next one is the St. Patrick's Day chase for most rewatchable scenes. Yes. Kimball getting out of City Hall. Yes. The Green River. The parade. And we have lots of details about how they filmed this, but...

I like the... Tommy Lee has a couple... So Tommy Lee played football at Harvard. I don't know if you guys know that. Was he like a center or left guard or something? Was he? Yeah. Trench guy? Okay. He has a couple like really good athlete moments when he's on the staircase with Kimball and he's like seeing where he is and then he's hopping down and I just don't think Gene Hackman's doing that. I just don't. I like that you're like Tommy Lee Jones looks appreciably better than Gene Hackman. Better athlete.

Prove me wrong. I can't. Is it fun for all of you to see the St. Patrick's Day parade from 31 years ago? How fun is the St. Patrick's Day parade? Is that like a whole day? I mean, it's an excuse for some alcohol, I'm guessing. All right. Next scene. Kimball calls Gerard from Sykes' house, the one-armed guy. Oh, yeah. He leaves it off the hook. Yes.

Do you remember what I told you in the tunnel? We ought to be sipping some whiskey. Uh, yeah, yeah, I remember, uh, well, it was noisy. I think you said something like, um, you didn't kill your wife. Remember what you told me? I remember you were pointing my gun at me. You said, "I don't care." He's on the south side. Yeah, Richard, that's right. I don't care. I'm not trying to solve a puzzle here. Well, I am trying to solve a puzzle. Five seconds to location.

And I just found a big piece. Richard. Richard. Do you remember what I told you in the tunnel? Incredible. I just found a big piece. What are your thoughts on Sykes' apartment, Chris? I mean, you know, he's a single guy. He's got one arm. I think he's doing his best. Is it Marie Kondo? No, but it's like, you know, I think he's got a tidy place.

Too many articles of clothing hanging from the ceiling. Yeah. Like, this is a domestic dwelling. This is not a dry cleaner. That is not acceptable. I'm sorry. Well, he's air drying. That's how you get the best smelling clothes. But on the single... I mean, you could wash them. That would be one thought. On the single man front, though, like, a lot of photos. A lot of photos. A lot of family photos. We had photos back then. It was 93. Are we thinking divorced dad? Yeah.

There's like a frame photo of a football player. Not Tommy Lee Jones, I don't believe. Like perhaps a son? So Mal, you're single. Sykes meets you at a bar. You meet a one-armed guy at a bar. He's like, come back to my place. Yeah. He brings you... Why not? So you come here often? Yeah.

Sykes Sykes brings you back there and you see 700 photos and things hanging from the wall do you just assume you're gonna get better? here's a lot of me and my business associates going fishing some of them are dead corporate retreat not my fault I do security for all the top executives so you pretend you're going to the bathroom and you climb out the window I don't know he seems like a fascinating guy no? next one the Sykes-Kimball subway fight oh

where Ford just, I gotta be honest, like the guy's got one arm. Ford really is struggling. No. I just feel like that fight should be over fast. It's kind of like a wrestling match where the good guy is like, oh no, you're kicking my ass. And it's like right now. Yeah.

I go the other way on this. One of them is a professional assassin. Okay. And a former cop. And the other one is a doctor who is living off razor blades and orange peels. Okay. This should not be close. And this is the second time that Sykes has failed to kill him. Yeah. A lot of people don't talk about it with the great rematches. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I wrote down in my notes, Harrison Ford, elite movie puncher.

We've seen him throw a lot of punches. It's almost like a hockey fighter. He definitely seems like the kind of guy who's thrown a punch before. It's really good. All right. Can't wait for this next one. The 1993 International Association of Cardiologists Conference. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm guessing this thing was not normally this lit. Yeah. Probably pretty mellow evening, right? A couple speeches. Maybe, would you like the steak or the chicken? Can I have another glass of wine? What time do you want to get out of here? Yeah. Not the most wanted fugitive in America wandering in. You switched the samples. You doctored the pathology reports. We're doing kind of Danny Caffey, but it's still like...

You almost got away with it, didn't you? And then our dude, Chuck Nichols, the only Dutch guy ever named Chuck, ever. Good old Charlie. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, my friend, Richard Kimball. Richard Kimball. Doesn't feel well. Richard Kimball, isn't he? I love that he's not writing well. It can seem like he's doing crowd work. Like, oh, Richard's here. Hey. Hey. Go back to your drinks. Would you be like looking around like, are we going to grab Richard? No. No.

And then he's like, "We'll be right back." And they walk off. And people are just like, "What's happening?" And then Ford or Kimball turns around and goes, "He falsified his research." You switched the samples after Lentz died. Let's stay calm, people. After Lentz died, you were the only one who had the access. You switched the samples and the pathology reports.

Did you kill Lynch too? Can we get some security in here, please? Did you? He falsified his research so that our DU-90 could be approved and Devlin McGregor could give you provasic. All right, it's all over, folks. So that our DU-90 could be approved and Devlin McGregor could give you provasic and walks off. They'll be like, any more speeches or is that it? Great moment. Was Chuck closing the event? What was happening? Keynote. He was the keynote, yeah.

And then the last one is just him and Tommy late at the end. They killed my wife. I know it, Richard. I know it. Sam Gerrard did care in the end. Yeah, like it's a little late. Like I'm going to need more than an ice pack. He did care. What's your most rewatchable scene, Mel? I think it has to be the damn chase. It's...

It's a little bit harder for me to stand on that corner if you guys are combining the marshals arriving to take over the interrogation and the bus and train crash. But the thing about the damn chase that separates it from the bus train crash sequence to me, it's like the combination of the grandeur of the scale and then the like cramped claustrophobic intimacy of the tunnels, right? It's such a great setting. And then like,

That sequence tells you something crucial about both of those characters, right? And that's what sets us off really on this cat and mouse hunt where they're never more than a step away from each other in any direction. I think it's got to be that. What do you got, Sierra? I'm just going to go first 24 minutes and 20 seconds. That's not how the category works. Well, I mean, if we're making a special live Chicago dispensation, I think it's... This is your I don't care? I don't care. I don't care.

Well, we've been with this movie so long. I mean, one of the reasons for this podcast is like the rewatchables. You're flipping channels and it's on. This is one of those where if you're flipping channels and it's the beginning, you're like, oh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I got the credit. Bus crash. Every time. Come on. This episode is supported by State Farm. Think about your first reaction after you have an accident. What do you do? You scream, oh, no. Or, man, why did this happen? On the flip side.

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All right, what's aged the best? I swear I'm not sucking up here. Chicago has a movie location. Really great. Really works. Wonderful. They filmed this movie and released it in the span of seven months from start to finish. Started filming in February. It was out in like August, which I think is like dumbfounding.

How is that possible? Ten weeks of post-production? They also had like eight editors working on it, like round the clock. It was industrial. You mentioned the director's kind of tour of press for the 33rd anniversary. My favorite nugget was the, yeah, we showed a cut to the studio. They said, it's perfect. Don't change a thing. And then we made 1,500 edits after that. 1,500. I have a bunch of what's aged the best, but I don't want to step. What do you have now?

I'd like to talk about Helen Kimball for a moment here. Yeah. I have some thoughts in other categories about our dearly departed Helen Kimball, but what's each the best is Helen. I fucking Richard relentlessly in the few moments of this movie where she is alive. She is literally licking her lips, watching him walk across the floor at the fundraiser in the car,

She says, God, I love looking at you in a tux. Right? She's like, she cannot wait to have sex with this man.

Her final act on Earth is putting rose petals down for somebody she has slept with and updating her life insurance. That's just incredible. I have my only quibble with that is like, maybe just throw a little bit more expository information into the final answering machine message then. If you like love this guy so much, be like, it definitely wasn't Richard who killed me.

It was the one-armed man. It's going to sound preposterous, but it's true. You have a what's age the best, Chris? My what's age the best in my most sincere Aaron Rodgers voice is the evils of big pharma. Come on. Dr. Pfizer, let's go. Future went ahead of its time. What did it see? I have a what's age the best. Tommy Lee improvised. Yeah. I don't bargain.

I don't care. And Will think me up a cup of coffee and a chocolate donut and all those sprinkles on top. Unbelievable. Just fucking Tommy Lee ad-libs because he went to Harvard. It was when Rich Paul just renegotiated my deal with the ringer. Bill said, I don't bargain. Rich. I have for one stage the best to cast. Yeah. Our guy Pants.

Jane Lynch. Jane Lynch is trotting in for like two scenes. Yeah. Julianne Moore in the credits. So we'll get to later why she's only in like one scene and weirdly like kind of mean to our guy, Dick Kimball. Tommy Lee and his Marshall crew. And then Jerron Crabbe. Jerron Crabbe. Yeah.

The Dutch people were just mortified by how I was going to mangle his name. Is it like your own crab? It's like Jerome Crabbe, I think it is. I think, yeah. I watched a YouTube pronunciation video before we came and that was... When we did this the last time, you were talking about how he sounded like he was on the 2001 Trailblazers. It's like a shooting guard. Jerome Crabbe came in. Yeah, he's Jerome Kersey's cousin. What's aged the best, Mal? Bearded, Harrison Ford. I'm zagging.

That's a one-stage award. Clean-shaven Harrison. The only man alive for whom this is true. Wow. Because he has the most perfect face and also his signature is the chin scar. Like, you can't cover it. I actually find it disorienting to see him in the beard at the beginning of the movie. Like, it doesn't feel right. And of course, I don't know. It's just...

I love a beard. My husband grew a beard like 13 years ago as a birthday gift. I've never let him shave it. And sometimes he says, why don't you like my face? And it's heartbreaking. I love a beard. He's trimmed. He has a very sweet face, but I love a beard. Harrison Ford should not have a beard, but your husband doesn't look like Tom Hanks and cast away. It's like he's, he's manicured the beard since then. Yeah. Yeah. He's not Lansing his own teeth with ice skates. It's true. What's aged the best? Uh,

Chuck Nichols. First time we meet him, he's driving. He's getting the car from the valet at his fancy tennis club. It's like, oh, this guy did it. Yeah. Come on. The score? He goes to a douchey tennis club? There's like a heavy villain score. He knows the valet's name? Oh, fucking lock him up, man. Thanks, Tommy. James Newton Howard's score got an Oscar nomination. Great one. Great score.

Cosmo was supposed to die at the end and our guy Pants said, please don't kill him off. I think there's going to be a sequel. He could see the future. Pants. He saw Oscars. He saw a future. Do you have anything else, CR? Because I have one more. No, it was Aaron Rodgers and I have Tommy Lee Jones just tearing strips off of people and being like, turn off the water! Just screaming about stuff. What's aged the best?

Our girl, Selah Ward. Incredible. God damn. Unbelievable. She was great looking. I have her in that weird group of actresses that I don't know why their careers weren't bigger than they were. But they're also that weird group of actresses who are like insanely rich and were very famous. It turned out fine. Yeah. Marky Post was like that for me. Anybody? Carla Gugino? No? No?

Alexandra Daddario right now? There's just people that they never found like the right part, but everybody liked them. Okay. Why is this getting awkward? No, it's not awkward. First of all, you were just like, it was like the spectrum of years between Marky Post and Alexandra Daddario. That's like Franklin Roosevelt, Bush. These guys never got a fair chance. He's getting ready for Boris Gump tomorrow, you know?

All right, some quickie words. The Big Kahuna Burger Award Best Use of Food or Drink. It's got to be Mr. Johnson's Egg Sandwich. Without a doubt. Without a doubt.

What a performance by that guy. That's another incredible hand acting moment when he just like licks every little bit of egg juice off his fingers. Wonderful. Does Kimball break the Hippocratic oath by doing no harm and like he takes that guy's like meal of the day, right? Yeah. I think he makes up for it elsewhere. You know, that's what's aged the best, right? All of his acts of kindness. Sure. Yeah.

The Den of Thieves Benihana Award scene stealing location. It's got to be the dam. Absolutely. Or the parade. What do you have for the Great Shot Gordo Award for most cinematic shots here? I would go parade for that and dam for best location. Wait, parade for Great Shot Gordo? Yeah. Okay, for Great Shot Gordo, I have Kimball walking into the tunnel and walking into the darkness and then he's on his way back to Chicago. Love that. Okay. Oh, boy. Well...

The Mallory Rubin Award. Yeah. Did this movie need a better sex scene? Rarely do we have Mallory able to actually give her own award out. I don't even know if there's another parallel for this. Yeah. Thank you. So obviously the answer is yes. Here's my specific recommendation.

And then why I think... Flashback? Yes, exactly. Mind melt. Because we get a little bit of that, right? When he is having the like, I'm in a bed of leaves fever dream. Oh, fever dream. Yeah.

That sparks ultimately the find that man pursuit of sight. That's when the Sade starts playing in the fever dream and we're off. Exactly. Well, we get these little glimpses, right? We see Helen turning to him, looking at him adoringly on her pillow. We see her on top wearing a white button-down shirt and then more hand acting. He touches her cheek and is like stroking her neck and

And then we get a brief glimpse. He's on top and he leans down for a kiss. So that's actually in there. Okay. But then we barely get any flashbacks of Helen the rest of the way. We get the rose petals. Like, I think that's it. So why not cut back every, I don't know, like seven and a half minutes or

or so to another scene and they could be just like that like it's two or three seconds like he's sitting down to speak to Clive Driscoll the wrong one-armed man right and he turns he has that moment where he looks at we assume a wife speaking to her partner right he's been incarcerated lovers separated and he's watching her speak she's speaking Spanish flash to another fuck fest with Helen yeah

Do you think that was part of the 1,500 cuts they made? I hope not. Because obviously the unrelenting pace of the movie is another what's aged the best. And so you don't want to disrupt that. But if they're rapid fire little glimpses, different body parts, et cetera, right? An elbow here. I guess you can't really linger on other elbows in this film given the role of like elbow joints, but like a knee, the small of a back, a clavicle. I think this would be wonderful. But it is worth mentioning that

That it is actually, obviously Harrison Ford is always presented in film as somebody people want to fuck. But we rarely get...

lamentably vivid graphic sex. Presumed innocent. Yeah. Fucking on the desk is a real rarity and an important, important film in the history of cinema. Wow. Greta Scotch is another Hall of Famer for me, CR. I'll give you the whole list. The Seal of Word Hall of Fame. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to make this bit work by the end of the night.

The Vincent Chase Award. Oh, yeah. You guys remember Vincent Chase, right? I did for this one. Are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Because the answer in Entourage was he actually wasn't. He was a bad actor. This goes to Charles Nichols. Why didn't he just turn Kimball in immediately? He's committed murder and deception and God only knows what else. And now this guy's out of jail and can make the whole thing go away.

Maybe Charles was a better doctor than he was a criminal mastermind. Yeah. I think he ultimately does... Once Richard escapes, right? The initial job is botched. But once he escapes, I think he doesn't want him back around the ear of authority where Richard could say things that eventually lead the legal system to Dr. Chuck Nichols' tennis club door. But to me, the reason he's the pick for this is...

He tells the marshals like he doesn't know Lentz. They are in the literal same department at the same hospital. They're both pathologists. Like that's just sloppy. I don't think he was counting on the U.S. marshals reopening the case, you know? But before that, half the samples that Lentz approved, half of them we learned from Jane Lynch were signed the day after Lentz died. Like Chuck, we can do better than this. He says in his keynote that prevention

Classic has, and I quote, no side effects whatsoever. If you are pushing across a drug that destroys people's livers, you have to at least do something plausible, like say chronic diarrhea. Yeah, exactly. May cause suicidal ideation. Yes. Also, Sykes is a candidate for this award. Kills the wrong person initially. No. Gets into a fight with the guy he's supposed to kill and doesn't kill him. Gets made during that fight.

tells Nichols Kimball wasn't at the hospital and then he's like I made him I got him because Kimball walked in front of the payphone he happened to be using hard to disagree Sykes is a triumph of the human spirit I I would I would watch like Brian Gumbel real sports about him you know like this guy line of duty loses a hand becomes one of the best assassins in Chicago while also providing security for some of the great medical executives out there

And he gets pulled into a world that's really beyond his understanding. That's not his fault. We have to also, for Vincent Chase, we have to talk about the fucking defense attorney. Okay, is this where we're doing this? We're not there yet. Okay. We are at the Butch's Girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film. Oh. Why did Devlin McGregor have to actually kill Dr. Richard Kimball? Seemed a little extreme.

You could have framed him. You could have framed him for, I don't know, some sort of patient calamity. Yeah. You could have put crack in his bloodstream and had him tested. That would have been great. Like all kinds of ways. That was specific. That don't lead to the...

All kinds of things that don't lead to a bloody murder in his home where you have the person who did it as a one-armed guy who happens to be your head of security and is in photos fishing with everyone who works for the company. Like, just bad plan. Yeah. Well, maybe they knew that his defense attorney was not exactly Johnny Cochran and they were like, this guy has got about six hours of good lawyering in him before he...

Punches out. Well, that leads us to what's aged the worst. Yes. The defense attorney, which we don't see. We're still not ready to talk about him. There's a... Okay. You know, they make this movie in 1993. There's no DNA evidence, right? So then OJ happens in 94 and then the trial in 95 and by the late 90s, we're just conditioned to think like, oh, what was the DNA? No DNA back then. Yeah. I think the DNA pretty quickly proves that there's another person...

in the place where the bloody murder existed. And now we have a different movie. And it would have been so much of a better movie if an hour of it was just Richard Kimball waiting for OJ to happen. Killing time. Yes. It's like, yes, finally. What's the worst? Why didn't Kimball testify on his own behalf? And if he did, why not show the scene? And was he like, what art man? Her head. Like, was he doing like all the weird hand stuff?

Maybe he did and it was so bad he didn't help himself. There's a half hour in the middle of this movie that maybe could zip by a wee bit faster. Like when Sam and Kimball are both investigating prosthetics? It gets a little slow. Okay. Interesting. Want to talk about the giant font opening credits? Yeah.

This was quite an era. I don't know what happened. Harrison Ford's name being bigger than the movie he's in and like all of the movie season in this stretch was wonderful. There was a whole font epidemic from like 91 to 94. Joey Pants' wig. I know it's kind of almost like kind of a bit for him. Yeah. Yeah. Sopranos. He was just like, fuck it. I just grabbed something from the prop department. But the wig's pretty bad in this.

The pre-CGI one-arm man shots. Where it's like Sykes is like, I've got one arm. Yeah, just tuck it in. Yeah. You can see like his jacket's kind of bulging out. Where do we stand on the guy who played Sykes in general? I think he's great. Pro. Yeah. Pro.

Where do we stand on the sequels? U.S. Marshals and some TV show with Tim Daly. I think that my favorite is the Quibi adaptation of this. But I actually... U.S. Marshals is pretty awful. And... Should have been great. Can't really believe Tommy Lee Jones was in it. I don't think he can either. Yeah.

Huge, huge... I had this in one stage where it was huge disappointment in the theater. Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, US Marshals. My guys are back. Yeah. And then you left. You're like, fuck those guys. Assholes. So Julianne Moore... And this was a rise of Julianne Moore right around here. She's in shortcuts. Things are really happening for her. And all of her scenes got cut except for one. Because Andrew Davis... He actually gave an interview about this last year. He said his producer came to him and said...

because the plan was Harrison Ford's character comes back, finds her, and then they kind of fall for each other. Yeah. And the producer says, you can't do this. He's mourning his wife. He can't get involved with another woman right now. Mal, you feel differently. No, I think

I think the only... Perhaps shockingly, I agree. It would be odd if he actually entered into a romantic and emotional attachment with somebody else while he was on a quest for vengeance for the shattered skull of Helen Kimball. The only Dr. Richard Kimball fucks somebody else scenario I would have accepted is the woman who gives him a lift. Oh my God. What he hitchhikes with. Oh, yeah. Wait.

One of the weirdest scenes ever. That's when she picked him up. Yeah. That is what she had in mind. She pulls over. He's not hitchhiking. She just sees him walking. It's like, you want a lift? Hey! You want a ride? This cutlass seats two. Come on. Let's do it. That would have been the only acceptable one. That's it. I'm going to Indiana. You're going to Chicago. I'm going to Chicago. Let's go. What if Julianne Moore was playing Amber Waves as the doctor in this movie? Would that...

Richard, have a little taste. I laid out some lines for you. Was there a better title for this movie? Wait, wait, wait. What? I'm sorry. We're doing What Tastes the Worst still, right? Yeah, I hope so because we have to talk about the clear winner of this category. What is it? It's the one thing that takes this perfect jewel of a movie and almost disqualifies it from existence. We are expected to believe that a city full of people cannot recognize Harry's

I'm sorry. I had that in picking this. I had this in picking this. But I do think it goes beyond that. But honestly, you're blaming Chicago. I'm blaming Richard. I'm blaming, this is on Richard. This guy can't get a pair of like drugstore glasses. But that makes it more galling. After he takes the egg sandwich, right? And he shaves, 6'1", 180, brown hair, eyes, beard. See anyone like that around? Every time I look in the mirror, pal.

He's talking to everybody. It's Harrison Ford. Yeah. The guy is having a conversation with Harrison Ford. When we see the four sketches when like they reset the investigation with the Chicago PD, his photo's in the middle and then it's just four basically identical, it's like slightly different parts of the hair. Yeah. Right? And like levels of scruff on the beard of just Harrison Ford's face. There is a guard who signs him into the courthouse and has a conversation

with him and tells him he will be filmed but at no point is like I clock you as the hottest guy who's ever lived. That's right. This is just hell. Those guys were just too busy listening to like Bears sports talk radio. Yeah. Who was the quarterback in 93 who was like Harbaugh and they were just like oh fucking Harbaugh. They drafted Rick Meyers earlier. Yeah.

Any Rick Meyer fans out there? Yeah. Tough reference. You guys had MJ that year, though. Maybe it was just all bulls. Yeah, exactly. Meanwhile, the future is on the front page. He gets home from the fundraiser and he's like, who won the game? That was midnight?

I did check. They were probably on the West Coast. The Bulls game logs. And did you find one? Well, so do we think that is supposed to be 92 and then the real time is 93? That's what I always assume is it's the year before. Although they did shoot it. Winther 93. No, they shot it in 93. Okay. But it spans like a year and a half. Any other what's the worst for you? You know, for a movie that's this thrilling and exciting, that is a pretty long shoving match between Charles and Richard. They're not exactly like John wicking each other there. They're like, oh!

And I was like, do we really wait an hour and a half for these two guys to shove one another off a building? Yeah, it's not great. Was there a better title for this movie? No. Absolutely not. How about Million Dollar Arm? No? What do you have for best quote, Mal? You can only pick three. Or two. Oh, man. Or one.

Three or less. Okay. Don't let them give you any shit about your ponytail. Has to be in the final three. Iconic. Yeah. Poor Noah Newman. You think he cut that the day after this? I think it's got to be I didn't kill my wife. I don't care. It's just an unbelievable exchange. And then the final rounding out the top three would be the donut line. Think me up some coffee. I have the donut line. Yeah. Casting what ifs are phenomenal. Oh, God.

Walter Hill wanted to direct initially and tried to get Nick Nolte to be the fugitive. No. My God. No.

It's a tough one for me because 48 Hours is my favorite movie. But by this point, this is another 48 Hours era, right? This is like another 48 Hours. Can you imagine going under the knife and Nick Nolte coming in putting like hospital scrubs on? You're like, actually, you know what? I'm just going to chance it with the liver. You know? I'm good. I know I'm under general. He's got a flask. He's chugging. So Alec Baldwin was the actual first choice. Wow. Wow.

Geez. He was also the first choice for Patriot Games. Well, he was Jack Ryan. He had been Jack Ryan. Yeah. Over Ford. Two times he beat him. Yeah. And I'm trying to think like, was this like a Joe Montana, Steve Young thing? He was like the new guy. But meanwhile, Montana was right there. The better option each time. And they were just kind of tired of Harrison Ford. Oh, man. Ford pursued the role.

I swear this is in the research because he was really excited to grow a beard. He never had a beard in a movie and he was like, if you let me have a beard, I'll do it. Yeah. Really weird. That's why Daniel Day-Lewis did Lincoln too. Is that true? Gene Hackman and John Voight both considered for Sam Gerrard. Gene Hackman, it works. It's not as athletic of a movie, I don't think. And then...

This is a bummer, but the guy who was supposed to play Dr. Charles Nichols was an actor named Richard Jordan. He was pretty well-known, but got sick, had a brain tumor, had to bow out, and they had to refilm the scene. So if you watch the first scene with Harrison Ford, if you actually look at his beard...

The beard's like fuller and the color is a little different than the beard and all the other scenes because they had to actually reshoot the big party scene. So there you go. CR, what do you have for the Ruffalo, Hannah Rubinick, Partridge overacting award? I think that you could probably go Harrison Ford in the interrogation. Thank you. I didn't want to say it myself. I just wanted one of you to say it. There's actually, so what would yours be?

I just am offended by that suggestion. Here's one thing that's happened with Ruffalo. The Ruffalo Award has been misconstrued as a negative thing. Yeah. It's just somebody dialing it up. This podcast is built on Al Pacino's performance in Heat. Like, we are fans of overacting. Because she had a great ass. And his head was all the way up it. I'm so glad it wasn't delivered that way. That would be really creepy. Pacino said no. I'm going to say it this way. Um...

Oh, this is fun. We get to hand out this award. The Dr. Richard Kimball Inappropriate Body Award. It goes to Dr. Richard Kimball who is an absolute jacked. Yeah. What was his doctor job? What was the cardiologist? He's like a thoracic... Vascular thoracic surgeon? Yeah.

The point is that he's been eating, maybe getting a little bit of prison workouts in because he's been... But you can see in the interrogation he was in the undershirt. Pure body weights, you know, like... He and Helen golf together because at the fundraiser, he's like correcting the guy's swing when he walks back. And he's like, you learned that for your swing coach now, my wife. Right? They're just like out on the links, probably having sex. Kimball's at the Equinox at 530 in the morning getting some reps in.

Best That Guy Award. So honorable mention, that guy who's in the U.S. Marshalls crew played Jay Leno in the Late Shift movie. He's got... I don't even know that guy's name. Dana Roebuck. That's his name. But the winner has to be Ron Dean.

who always plays the Chicago guy and everything. And Joseph Casala is his partner, yeah. He was in Above the Law. He played Andy's dad in The Breakfast Club. You know him right away. And he is one of the guys. He's the guy who just isn't buying Kimball the cop from the beginning. There's something to Ron Dean too that is kind of interesting to consider if there is a unified Chicago cinematic universe that he pulls together. Like Dennis Farina's in it? Exactly, yeah. I love this.

Dion Waiter's a word. I could give you Copeland the convict. Has to be. I can give you Mr. Jetson comatose hospital guy looking for his egg sandwich. Yeah. I could give you Chuck Nichols who's only in like three or four scenes. He's in too much. Don't you think? I like Copeland for this. Kiss my ass, doc. Just a great moment. Wonderful. So if they recast the couch, if they did 2024 Fugitive, who's Kimball?

I have some suggestions. Okay. Ewan McGregor and we're setting it in London. What do you think? I like that, honestly. Why are you doing that? They're right here. Chicago's waiting. They're all here. They liked us. Why'd you do that? We have to do something to differentiate the Prestige TV version, right? Yeah. I like Ewan McGregor in London. That's good. What are yours?

Well, I was thinking Michael B. Jordan or Ryan Reynolds would be the obvious, like kind of the right age range. I feel like they're too young. I don't buy Ryan Reynolds as a surgeon. As a vascular surgeon? No disrespect. I just, yeah. Okay. What about Scarlett Johansson? Ooh. So who is it then?

Yeah, it's a tough one. That's why they can't remake this movie. What about if it's like Chalamet, but he's like a prodigal surgeon? Chalamet? Oh my God. It's kind of like Doogie Howser's first job, you know? Fine, fine. Well, Armie Hammer. Let's move on. What about Gyllenhaal? Oh, yeah. He's got the roadhouse body. He would be ready. Yeah.

Kind of like Joe and all. That's a good one. For 1993 recasting, I would throw Chris Rock in there as one of the U.S. Marshall sidekick guys. Nice stage of Chris Rock's career. He's on SNL a little bit. He's kind of on the way up. He could get a couple one-liners off. I had a 93 recasting, which was for Charles Nichols. What if we get a pre-taken Liam Neeson?

Oh. Now, it's probably distracting after the fact. Like, once we've seen him with his special set of skills, like, you're like, he's going to kick this guy's ass. Yeah, right. But I think he's just got a little bit more... Better fight scene. Yeah, much better fight scene, right? Definitely. When is the last time you made s'mores? Crunchy, gooey, and with everyone's favorite, Hershey's Milk Chocolate. Whether you're making new memories with your friends beside a campfire...

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Well, we have a new category for you guys. You guys don't even know about this. Oh, great. Great. Super prepped. What would Tony Romo's director's commentary for this movie sound like? Yes. Jim. Well, Jim. He's in the tunnel, Jim. I got to tell you, Jim, he's going off that damn gym. If he grabs a branch on the way down, Jim, he'll be okay. He'll be okay if he protects his liver. I don't know, Jim.

I was doing this all day just to make her laugh during the Ravens game. So I was ready. What Ravens game? We watched the Ravens game with Mallory yesterday and we were trying to cheer her up by Tony Romo doing the director's commentary of Philadelphia. Stallion said I'm on 21st Street, Jim. These guys don't know each other, Jim, but they're about to. He's going to use an alias here, Jim. Anyway. It's anonymous, but it's tender, Jim. Kills me.

Half-assed in your research, this is one of the best in the history of the podcast. Harrison Ford damaged knee ligaments during the running scenes in the woods and said, no, no surgery. My character's going to have a limp from this point going forward. And he limps through the rest of the movie and that's why he's the fucking goat. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

ACL tear during Raiders. Yeah. Herniated disc during Temple of Doom. Broke his leg during... Yeah, the hydraulic door during Force Awakens. Yeah. Crashed down and shattered his ankle famously. Didn't he just tear the muscle off his shoulder during Dial of Destiny? During Shrinking? Yeah. What a legend. Six screenwriters for this movie and 25 drafts.

That's not ideal. Or is it? I mean, we had Tommy Lee Jones. Chris mentioned they had one chance to crash a train. So they consulted all these engineers, insurance company, stunt doubles. And they thought the train was going to be 35 miles an hour. And it came in at 42. And if it had gotten fucked up, that was it. They would have lost like 3 million bucks, but it all worked.

The crashes were filmed at the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad outside Dillsboro, North Carolina. And the wreckage is still there. Road trip. Yeah, road trip. And the rest of the film is shot in Chicago, including the freight tunnels, City Hall, Stairchase. Sykes lived in the historic Pullman neighborhood. Anybody? Okay. Harrison Ford uses the payphone in the Pullman pub.

And they filmed it in the St. Patrick's Day Parade. And the actual 1993 parade was 21 degrees outside. Harrison Ford said, I'm fine. I don't need a jacket. I'm good. And it wasn't scripted. Apex Mountain. Yep. So Apex Mountain, we still don't know what it is. We've done 325 podcasts. Still haven't totally figured it out. Harrison Ford, no. Definitely not. But Harrison Ford playing a guy named Desmondo? Yes. Yes.

Is this Harrison Ford's best Dr. Richard? Why don't you answer your own question? Any frantic fans out there? Are you allowed to be a frantic fan? He does start cocaine in a bathroom stall in that movie, so it feels like worth mentioning. Thanks again to Honda. Lost my virginity in a civic gym! Ha ha ha!

Tommy Lee Jones, I think this was Apex Mountain. I think so. Yeah. He's an A-lister after this movie. I don't think he was before. So Joey Pants is an interesting one because he'd been around for, I mean, I remember Risky Business, Eddie and the Cruisers. You go all the way through the 80s, he's in Running Scared.

He became a that guy. And then at some point in the early 90s, he became Joe Pantoliano and not a that guy, but he never started a movie. And this is the run of him popping into movies like this. We're like, oh, Joey Pants. I love that guy. I really do feel like it was around here. It's quite a decade culminating with The Matrix. Cypher. Shout out Cypher. And then by the time he's on The Sopranos, people are like, oh, yeah. But that's his apex, right? Ralphie? It has to be.

You could argue it's here. Like he fought to stay in the sequel. I don't know. What do you guys think? Sopranos? Yeah. All right. Fine. Whatever. Side with Mallory. Bad Joey Pants wigs, not Apex Mountain. No. One-armed killers? I'm going to say yes. Oh. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Probably so. Andrew Davis, definitely. Yes. Dutch guys named Chuck. Any Dutch soccer players? Not that I can think of. In Holland? No? Okay.

Chicago movies. I think it's Ferris. Ferris. Dark Knight. We got Blues Brothers, Ferris, this. Who said Dark Knight? I love that. Dark Knight is not a Chicago. I mean, it is technically Gotham. They never say it's Chicago. Paganically, it is in Gotham. Wow. I mean, it's filled with Chicago. If they shot like one scene from Empire Strikes Back here, it wouldn't be a Chicago movie. Oh, come on.

Yeah. So, Blues Brothers. Thief. Yes. Oh. Thief. Blues Brothers, I always thought was like Mount Rushmore top four, but now it's been 32.

34 years? I don't know if it still has the same current. 44 years. Yeah. It does for me. I just, I don't know with people under 30 whether it's the same. All right. That's one of the primary concerns of this pod is what people under 30 are interested in. We didn't solve that one. Fugitives apex bound? Probably not. OJ Simpson? When the juice was on the loose? What a 12-hour sound was, man. Woo!

Characters named Cosmo. No. We had the same year. We had Cosmo Kramer and Cosmo. Oh, so you're... Yeah, this is a great Cosmo run. Interesting. So the redirect twist...

We talked about this the first time we talked about this movie. I feel like it became a thing eventually, but wasn't a thing when this movie happened. Do you want to explain the redirect twist, Chris? So the idea basically being that the entire movie that you think you're watching then gets turned into something else twice, right? Yeah. Yes. I feel like this is my theory and I have forgotten it. It was your thing. I forgot that idea, Chris. I forgot that idea.

Too many shots of the helmet, Jim. What was the redirect twist? Was there something else actually? I believe you and Andy on the first pod discussed Silence of the Lambs and the like fake out of whether people are going to be in the same place or a different place. Oh, yeah. When they come to arrest Kimball, but it's really the Russian drug dealer. Yeah, it's Copeland. Right. I'm a big fan of the pod. Thanks. Sierra, we've done a lot of pods. It's fine. It's all going into voice work now. I'm sorry. You know what?

We need some new blood. We're bringing in a fourth person. Our producer, who has stayed with us for many, many years, Craig Horlbeck, is going to join us to pick some myths. He's got to move stuff around. Didn't really plan for me, I guess. Geez. Didn't realize we had to move some furniture. Tough luck, Jim. Well, now you get somebody under 30's takes. Messing up the G, Jim. Are you older than this movie, Craig?

I was born in 94, so. Wow. But you love this movie? Yeah, I love this movie. I think it's the number one dad movie of all time. And I can't wait to be a dad and watch this again because I'll like it even more. When I told my dad that we were doing this movie, he was like, Chris Collins. He was like, oh, what a movie. He's running, Mike. They're trying to catch him.

All right, we're going to pick some nits. Craig, you go first. What's your first nit? Who hires a one-armed security guard for a massive pharmaceutical company? How many billions of dollars in profit did they make? They hire a one-armed security guard. He's the guy handling the top brass at the company. Also, why is he like vacationing with them? He's like in Bermuda shorts fishing. Shouldn't he be working? Team building. Corporate retreat. I had a lot of questions about the fishing trip. Yeah.

They're like, oh man, Sykes wants to come. What do we say? No, he runs security for the whole company. We got to bring him. Real fringe guy. Fuck, I hate that guy. Chain smokes. The one arm, fuck. All right, bring him. So. Oh, he does have the hook. That would be amazing. Wow. No need, I got it.

So, Chris, you want to go? We'll just go in order. We'll do a circle. Yeah, I would just... If I was Kimball and I was walking down that hall and the cop read back my stats to me, it was just like, 6'2", brown hair, brown eyes. And I was like, oh, God, that's me without the beard? Yeah.

I immediately am like shaving my head, getting nerd glasses, maybe like... Thank you. And then another thing that really breaks his way in this movie is that everybody whose clothes he steals like fit pretty well. No. Like he only robs 6'1", 180 guys. No, I disagree. I think the like cable knit...

cardigans. I know that you like the way he looks. No, no. It's like it's too, it's hanging too loosely on his perfectly chiseled frame. It's very modern. It would play right now. That's why it's so wonderful at the end when he, it's not a very practical outfit for the work he has to do, but he puts on a tight-fitting button-down, a tie, and a tweed blazer. That is a movie trope. Everything always fits our lead character. Like even in Shawshank, Tim Robbins is like six foot five.

Just slides into the warden's suit. Yeah. Baggy outfit. Baggy outfit. It would be amazing if he put on like a shirt and it was like a baby tee on him. He was like, oh. Right. Cut your hair while you're cutting the beard. Like buzz cut. No, he's like, I look too good. The fact, I mean, he does look great, but the fact that he goes from the big hair dye move is to go from brown hair to black hair. I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, how about some turquoise? It's like literally just for men, Harrison Ford color that he's using. Wild. What do you got, Mal? I'll stick with fashion since Chris went there. I don't frequent the gala scene, so forgive me if this is ignorant, but like, canonically established as the Children's Research Aid Foundation fundraiser at the beginning of the movie,

the whole thing is a runway show for swimsuits. It's a bunch of women in like tight gold and leopard bikinis. Did you guys notice this? I was like, is that what the event would be for the children's research? What do you think Chuck Nichols is like stage patter was about all of the bathing suit drama going on on stage? Uh,

So I have, Kimball was a doctor and he's supposedly a smart guy, I would assume. Yeah. Why not ask for a lawyer as soon as it becomes clear two seconds in that, oh, maybe they think I killed my wife. I'm just like, I'm not saying anything else. I need a lawyer.

He's just answering questions like he's on like late night with Jimmy Kimmel or something. And then within two minutes, you have the guy outside the window go, book him. That's it? OJ was on the loose for a week. Blood was everywhere. He had no alibi. Third OJ mention of the event. Well, he was another 90s fugitive. Craig, what's your next one?

Down in the sewer in the underground, Kimball's pointing the gun at Gerard and there's just water falling directly on the gun for like 20 seconds. It's like, move to the left or the right. If you're even thinking about shooting that gun, maybe you don't have water pour on it for 20 straight seconds. Maybe that just proves he was never going to shoot him. You know what I mean? It was just a gesture. What do you guys hear? I think I have to ask about whether or not

Charles was like, basically like, this is more of an unanswerable question, but I really want to know what Charles's whole speech was. And it's a nitpick of the movie that we didn't get his like, any of like his like weird jokes at the beginning where he's like, maybe this didn't translate because I am Dutch, but you know. Yeah.

So that was always a bummer for me that we didn't get to see it. Mal? Can we finally talk a little bit more about Walter, the defense attorney, for a moment here? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. It's time. You will hear a voice from the grave. The voice of Helen Kimball identifying her killer, her husband, Richard Kimball. Where is Walter at this crucial moment to step up and say, objection, your honor,

Helen Kimball has quite literally had her skull bashed in. This cannot be the testimony that indicts my client. She is hemorrhaging to her death. And maybe just asking for her husband as she's passing on. What is this guy doing? What is Walter doing? It's shocking. Also, Gerard, as soon as he is hearing about the case the first time, he's like, you guys thought that...

He needed her money. He's like a super successful vascular surgeon. But his own lawyer never thinks to mention that. Fingerprints on the lamp and the gun. It's his gun and it's his fucking bedroom. Yeah, his fingerprints. His skin under Helen's nails. She probably clawed it off of his back during sex. What is Walter doing? It's outrageous.

I have a short one. Just shaving a big beard like that is impossible, and I would impale my face. He's got to cut it with the scissors and then shave it. He's got shaving cuts everywhere. With a disposable razor, which just tear you up. You're going to look like you were in a hockey fight. There's just no chance. Perfectly clean shaven. What do you got, Craig? Richard Kimball, worst fake janitor of all time. Yeah.

He's like, brushing the blinds on the fucking broom? Norman's like, yeah, that's normal. Wild. I'm going to go back to my job. Desmondo, you missed a spot, man. Do you have another one? No, mine are all unanswerable questions.

Why doesn't Samuel Gerard, Deputy U.S. Marshal, shoot Richard Kimball in the foot? This drives me crazy. During the courthouse escape, right? His foot is stuck. It's just there. Do you think it's because he knows he's innocent? Yeah. By that point, he definitely does. He fires like 12

Blitz at him. He's purposely missing. Into bulletproof glass. He's supposed to be a tactical genius. It's like... It's a rough moment for him. Very strange. Boy, this one bothers me. So they go to Chuck Nichols' office.

He's got a picture of him and Richard Kimball behind him. Yeah. The guy is a fugitive who killed his wife. Everyone in Chicago thinks that guy murdered his wife. It's like, yeah, that's me and Michael Jordan. That's me and the one-armed security guard. We were fishing. Yeah.

That's me and Rick Meyers. That's me and the guy who went to jail for life. I have a theory. I have a theory about this. What? I think this is part of why he was the Vincent Chase winner, right? Bad criminal. I think he keeps trophies.

Oh. Like this, I was going to do this in unanswerable questions. Like how many people do we think Nichols has had killed at some point? Because I think that's, it's not just that he has, it is like you said, directly behind him. Anybody who's speaking to him is going to be, that's in their eyeline, right? Yeah. So he's almost like a boasting, right? I dare you to suss out that I am responsible for this. If he's keeping trophies, what did he keep from Lentz?

It's a great question. Like his pelvic bone that was thrust into the barrier of Lake Michigan? Like Lance's prized marlin that he got on the Cancun trip? Yeah. What do you got? This is really small, but there's one quick scene where there's a nurse on rollerblades. Is that... Was that a thing? It actually kind of... Was it? Like it's a sonic restaurant, essentially, inside of the hospital. Was that a thing? Honest question. Like in the thing, the guy rolls around the research facility on roller skates, but I don't... Bananas are nuts. I have a...

Sam Gerrard's team figures out in 90 seconds that Kimball was calling from an L train in Chicago. It's like, I recognize that belt. Remove all the sound. The guy's like, sure. Just removes it in two seconds. It's like, I couldn't do that now with the technology we have. Could we get these guys in the Zapruder film? I feel like they could figure this out. They had an early beta of Pro Tools. Yeah. They were ready. You have any other ones? Because I have one more. Just the meta one from, once again, the first pod, which I loved.

You guys were talking about casting a modern version and said that you thought Jon Hamm. Oh, yeah. Oh, in 2017. Would be too handsome. Oh, you're nitpicking our original pod? Yes, I am. It's a little bit better, I know. Wasn't that like just as Mad Men was ending? That's incredible. You said you thought someone nominated Jon Hamm and then the response was too handsome to play Dr. Richard Kimball, who again is famously played by the most handsome person.

That's the first person who has ever lived. Harrison Ford. I can't justify that. Shocking, shocking stuff. You have anything else, Craig? Just one more. At the end, doesn't Kimball not need to go after Nichols anymore? Like, he's kind of figured it out. Couldn't he just go back to Tommy Lee, to Gerard and be like, hey, like, here's this conspiracy. Well, the guy killed his wife. Craig, he's on a quest for vengeance. Yeah, yeah. It goes beyond justice at a certain point. You know? All right. It's like the case was closed. He could have kind of headed home.

How do we feel about Kimball escaping the hospital but stopping to help a patient? Great. Absolutely. Saves the guard. How do we feel about nobody in Chicago, a great city with seemingly a bunch of smart people, not noticing Kimball for days on end? That's not true, though. His landlord notices him. Four people notice him. He would have been

been famous he would have been all over the news just because he was so hot like that happened there was a guy who we call I don't know if anybody remembers this his name is Hot Convict oh yeah oh sure of course I think his name was like something Meeks and it was he was known as Hot Convict then that Kimball would have been like Hot Murder Doctor

Mallory would have been writing him letters. Dear Dr. Kimball. Richard, I know you're innocent, but even if you were guilty, call me. Crime of passion, you know? We all make mistakes. I have just a small one on Joey Pants gets hit by that giant long metal thing. Oh, yeah. And he's got just a bandage on his head. That's like a 100-stitch cut. He's probably dead. You're hemorrhaging blood from that. Your face would be shattered.

All right. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TVL, Blackcast, or Untouchable. They've actually done a couple of these. A 2024 prestige. You're not watching, Craig? No. We wouldn't redo it. Untouchable. Here's what I'm thinking. There's two. One is Dr. Charles Nichols' Breaking Bad. Oh. So just kind of a middle-of-the-road surgeon. Yeah. He's never going to be Richard, but he can hang around Cook County.

And then one day he meets these guys from Devlin McGregor and they're like, Hey, have you heard about Provacic? It's in trials, but we can really use like kind of like a face for the brand. And that's like when he starts to go down. The other one that I had was just for you. Yeah. It's kind of more of a sliding doors than a sequel or a prequel. Oh, you know, I love those. What if, forget the death penalty, Rich got life in prison.

goes to jail and he becomes yard doctor. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just Richard Kimball. Shot caller. Yeah. It's shot caller, but yard doctor. And he like kind of gets in before Oz really hits, you know, who says no. No notes. Yard doctor. Yeah. We have the good doctor. We can't get the yard doctor. That's incredible. You know, I love it.

I realized I accidentally skipped over a category in our delight and excitement to be here tonight. We never did the Stephen A. Smith hottest take away. Oh, yeah. Did you guys have them? We have one. Yep. What was yours, Mal? My apologies for being jumping out of order. I just think that if you're our guy, Chuck Nichols, you have to have Sykes killed.

Right? Like, you've got to close that loop. The moment Kimbo escapes, you just take him out that night. Immediately. Yeah. Immediately. You can't leave that loop open. I don't think that's a hot take. I think that's a smart take. Well, again, these are the Vincent Chase winner for a reason. Like, how hard is it to poison Sykes? Or like...

I don't know, some sort of boating accident on one of these corporate retreats. Hey, we're fishing again this week, Sykes. Coming? Yeah. Put them into the propeller. It's like a Fredo trip. What'd you have, CR? I just think, you know, if you're rich and it's going poorly in the interview room, and I know that this doesn't really work because you've already introduced the idea, but as it's coming out of your mouth, aren't you like,

God, this one-armed man thing sounds exactly like what someone who killed their wife would say. Do you maybe wish you could just get like a back 30 seconds button to be like, you know, like, let me like, don't even say the one-armed part. If they were just like, yeah, this other guy, tall, dark, handsome, seemed to be favoring his left, but I'm not going to, you know, but I don't really remember. Yeah. Kind of the Jamal Crawford of killers, you know?

Do you have a hottest take, Chris? No, I didn't prep for that. Yeah, sorry, I didn't prep you for that one. Here's mine. I think Kimball's defense should have been, my wife was fucking hot. Why would I kill her? And that was it. He gets off. Do you see here? Here's five pictures. Look at this. Come on. Love this lady. Good one. Would this movie have been better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Catherine Hahn, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson?

JT Walsh, Byron Mayo, Carling Mays, or Philip Baker Hall. I do think that Byron getting involved with the Julianne Moore, Richard Kimball pairing would be pretty like, Rich, Dr. Eastman, there's so much lubricant in this hospital. Let's find a storeroom and see what happens. Just the three of us.

So well-defined physique, Rich. No, but I think if Wayne Jenkins was a U.S. Marshal...

And he would say, God damn, Rich! I didn't know I was chasing super vascular surgeon! Super doc! It's right there! You diagnosed that kid almost blindfolded! Always check the film on the fractured sternum! Now go find that one-armed man or you're going away a long fucking time, big boy! Amazing. Incredible. Thanks.

Harley Mays could have been good. Harley Mays, like, mending him when he falls off the dam, like, wait for the banana boat, big guy. Banana boat coming. Just one Oscar who gets it. Well, Tommy Lee got it, so we get rid of that. All right, here we go. Probably unanswerable questions.

Is the fake seizure on the prison bus the single best escape move we've ever come up with? That guy got shot in the chest two seconds later. Everyone else got off. I think he has some regrets.

Would that be your move, CR? The face seizure? Yeah. Weren't all these guys headed for the death penalty? I'm surprised. Why did they? It's unclear if they're all suffering the same fate. I always love the banter from the prison guards. They'd be like, can't wait to drop this load off and get some chow. It's like a little bit more focused on what's going on here. What do you have, Craig? I'm just curious how famous Richard Kimball would be after this. Would he be like Sully? Yeah.

What an incredible feat, like what he pulled off. How famous would he be? Would he be on talk shows? Like it's the Dr. Richard Kimball show? He took down Devlin McGregor and like solved his own murder case while on the run in Chicago. Like he'd be everywhere. Does he get his own booth at Michael Jordan's steakhouse? Is he more famous than Michael Jordan? Yeah. Richard Kimball's steakhouse? Yeah, that's right.

What'd you have, Sierra? How much money did Charles give Richard when he first finds him under the L? It's like 550 bucks. He was like, oh, nothing. Is it three grand? Because he gets a first and last on an apartment, buys an English professor's outfit. Yeah.

Gets well with all these oranges and bananas. And then... Nice fruit bowl. Yeah. It's like he's set up. He's got seed money for days. I actually have a theory on that. I think Chuck won a doubles match that day. Yeah. It was a thousand bucks a person.

They want 6263. He has a few income sources because there's the wallet and the comatose patient's pants that he takes. Then he gets the money from Chuck. I know this is like a pre-cashless society, but how much cash is that? I mean, he's Dr. Charles Nichols, keynote speaker at the... What do you have, Mel? I've been waiting all night for this. At the 10 minute and 34 second mark of this film, and I'd like you all to go home, watch it, and pause right then.

When Richard Kimball, Dr. Richard Kimball comes home from being called by Dr. Stevens to assist in the OR, he returns to his home to find his wife slain. There is a cat.

There is a cat visible for a second in the Kimball kitchen. What happened to this cat? What happened to the Kimball family cat? And why have we not all been talking about this since 1993? Is the cat okay? Did the cat have to feast on the bloodstains on the floor? Did Richard get the cat back after he restored his good name?

Do you think that that's one of the 1500? I'm like, I'm like, I'm actually, this is blowing my mind because you imagine if there was like a little bit in the interrogation where it's like, let me find this man and someone feed my cat. His name is Tickles. Tickles Kimble. What other jobs...

Could Sam Gerrard have had, and do you think he could have been like a top six NFL coach? Oh, definitely. Oh, I love this. Do the Ravens win last night? What? That's just, it's cruel and it's hurtful. Would Sam Gerrard have run the ball more than five times? Yeah, is he Todd Munkin? Yeah. Gus Edwards gets more than three fucking handoffs in the AFC championship game.

Not a lot of handoffs, Jim. God. I'm up for whatever he wanted to do professionally. What do you got, Craig? This is a throwaway line by one of the U.S. Marshals, but it was on St. Patrick's Day. And he goes, they can dye the river green on St. Patrick's Day. Can't they just dye it blue all the other days? And I was like, it's a great idea. Why can't you just do that? I didn't know that.

What do you got, Greer? This is Chris. I was wondering, like, this is kind of going back to my Chicago Cinematic Universe. I was wondering if you could tease this out a little bit. So, because, like, I like the idea that this is at Cook County. Cook County was, like, the basis for the ER show. Like, there's, like, a dramatic element to this Chicago moment. I would love some sort of situation where, like, the first day back after doing this, do you think that Richard Kimball treats Buzz McAllister for a domestic air gun incident? Oh, God.

Like, can we start getting some more Chicago characters in there? I would just love it if the... Oh, my God. Are we sure the Chicago cinematic universe isn't a great idea that needs to be explored? This is miraculous. So what's... So we have all the Hughes movies. Yeah. We have all the man stuff that he's done here. What else would you have in there? Well, apparently Dark Knight. Apparently fucking Batman's just walking around Chicago. Yeah. Mal, you have one? I do.

It's established in the trial that it took Helen Kimball five minutes to die. Would she be alive if the 911 dispatcher who answered that call immediately just said, helps on the way? Instead of no fewer than 47 times saying, ma'am, could you repeat that? Ma'am, I know you have a brain bleed and you're dying on your bedroom floor, but I'm sorry, what did you say?

I still don't understand that voicemail. Was she forced to make that call or did she willingly make that call? It's kind of unclear because he turns it on. Now you've incriminated your husband. Yes. But he knew that she would give an incriminating voicemail. I don't know. That's pretty good.

I have one more unanswerable question. Just tell me everything about the vibe between Kimball and the lady who picks him up on the side of the road. What's line number one? So, you from around here? Yeah. You look familiar. Yeah. You have a similar gait to a famous murdering surgeon. Yeah. If I ever write fan fiction about The Fugitive, this is what it will be about. I promise. All right, I have one. Is this a better movie if in the last scene...

It turned out Kimball hired somebody to kill his wife all along. The all-time twist. He got away with it. We have a flashback. The one-armed guy was not there. Another great Chicago movie, Primal Fear. Just a little like... Yeah. Good for you, Sam.

Any other unanswerable questions? No. Okay. How quickly do you think Sykes would have gotten caught in the Instagram era? Right? Because he like loves a photo. Yeah. Yeah. Loves a photo next to people who directly tie him to the crimes he has committed. Do you think he's always tagging guys from Devlin McGregor? Yeah. What's that on the grid? Location, Devlin McGregor. At Plants. At Devlin McGregor retreat. Me and the guys of Mexico. Yeah. Fish, we're out today.

What do you have for best double feature choice with this movie? I got the package just because it's Andrew Davis and then it's the inverse. It's Tommy Lee Jones is the fugitive in that. I have Under Siege. What do you have, Mel? Has to be Presumed Innocent. I went Enemy of the State. Oh, okay. The Indian Red. The Indian Red's a wanton award for what happened the next day. We touched on some of this. I had, I think Kimball locks down Sexiest Bachelor People Magazine. Day one.

Oh, I was like, he's back at the hospital to see if Ann Eastman wants to get a drink. All-time flirting ammunition that he has. He's like, hey, remember when I saved that kid? Yeah. Yeah, hey. Remember I just called that? I know we got off to a weird start, but... So you think he's just back at work? No. I think he's lost his faith. Faith shattered in big pharma and the medical profession. Okay. Right. Faith shattered in the justice system. I think he opens a PI firm. One-arm investigations. Okay.

You don't think it's too soon? No. He is out there pursuing justice for those who were deprived, just like he was, right? Interesting.

Do you think he was at like the Knicks Bowl series that year? Like game two? Courtside. Did he get Jumbotron? Yes. There he is. Yeah. What's the Chiron? Yeah. Like how is he identified? Exonerated. Former yard doc.

Did he get to move back in the house? What's the deal with the house? I don't think he'd want to be there. Too many memories. Okay. Well, now he has all this money. New house, hopefully with the same cat who is alive and well and thriving.

CR, what was the Devlin McGregor penalty financially? Yeah. This is great. 50 billion? But like, couldn't they claim like plausible deniability where it's like, hey, Chuck just went rogue on this year, man. Like we were cool with it not working out. We have a couple other drugs in the hopper, man. Like, yeah. Provasic was not it, you know? So Provasic is done. I think Provasic is done. That's a wrap on Provasic.

What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? I really like the green jacket. I think I would wear it. The one that he takes from the egg sandwich guy? Oh, yeah. It's a nice jacket. I kind of like it. Game-worn fugitive jacket? Yeah, that's a good pick. I'm going with a liver tissue sample. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, a provasic slide.

I would take whatever cash Charles Nichols wanted to give me at an underpass. I can't believe I got this fourth. I'll take the arm. Yeah. Oh, wow. Takes up too much room on the shelf. You know, when you're collecting merch, you have to think practically. Great Halloween costume, though. The Cook County ID card.

My backup choice was the Chuck Nichols tennis pullover sweater. And the Fila tracksuit. Yeah, it's just really nice. You're not taking Noah Newman's ponytail? No. I think those days are past. One more category before we actually have a fight on stage. The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson, which I think is if it looks like you may have killed your wife.

Get a fucking lawyer. No questions. Yeah. Literally mine. Yeah. You're not being buddies with the cops. Just get a lawyer. It's cool. And make sure that lawyer's not Walter. Yeah. I like plain sight is the best hiding place. Yeah. Oh. You know, just right under their nose the whole time. Yeah. And just because you're on the run, you can still do good. You know? It's beautiful. Yeah.

Wow. Well, we're going to have a fight because the last category is who won the movie. And Chris and I are going to say Tommy Lee Jones. We are. Craig?

Tommy Lee is the most memorable part of the movie, culturally. However, if Harrison Ford is not in this movie, like if you replaced Harrison Ford with Steven Seagal and it's a Steven Seagal, Tommy Lee Jones movie, like Under Siege, the movie is a lot worse. However, if you replace Tommy Lee Jones with a different actor and keep Harrison Ford there, the movie is still really good. What if Steven Seagal is playing both roles? It's the best movie ever. I'm going to go with Harrison Ford.

That is what we call a suck up to Mallory. I've always thought that Craig was a man of character, taste, integrity. He's my guy. Harrison Ford's my guy. Mal. The answer has to be Harrison Ford. With love and respect to this Tommy Lee Jones performance, which I think is wonderful. Conceding the point that he, sure, yeah, okay, the Academy has it out for Harrison Ford. He's only been nominated for Best Actor once for Witness. John Book, iconic. Didn't win. Ridiculous. It's an outrage. You don't,

tell your friends about The Fugitive and describe it as a Tommy Lee Jones movie. You talk about it as a top 10 Harrison Ford movie, maybe a top five Harrison Ford movie, right? It's in his pantheon. It's in the pantheon of one of the most important and celebrated figures in the history of cinema. And he has to do everything in the movie. I think, and this is, I would say this is true, not only of this movie, but his career, sincerely. Harrison Ford needs some

about him for once. He doesn't get enough credit for the work he does in his movies. Seriously. Like, he has to pull off this intense physicality. He has to pull off this intellectually rigorous, uh,

dynamism, right? He's witty. He's quick. He's the, we're like, oh my God, Mr. Coffee Donut Zinger Machine. What a genius. Guess who's always a step ahead, right? Guess who has to lead him to the fucking truth? Dr. Richard Kimball also happens to be extremely handsome, which I'm not sure if I've mentioned, it's probably important to say that before the pod ends.

He has to be believable in all of those capacities, right? As the doctor, as the society man, as the forlorn wife guy who's on another quest, as the guy who could somehow and probably be the one out of a million who survives the headfirst Peter Pan time out of the dam. I'm going to start playing Oscar music soon. He wins the movie. My answer should have just been, I don't care. I don't care.

So we're at a stalemate. We are? Yeah. What do you guys think? TLJ, Chicago. Oh, Chicago with the win. Wait, no. One person said Chicago and then everyone else said Ford loudly. That's what just happened. I will say, all right, to talk out your case, this was like the great athlete having the one last title season. This was like the Steph Curry 2022 title. Well, still time.

For curry? Well, yeah. You're a Kaminka trade away? Yeah.

Yeah, I think this was the last really great movie that he was in, right? Yeah, when he hits the sidewalk in Clear and Present Danger, he's like, ah. It's going to be hard for him to get up from this one. What Lies Beneath, I would not call a great movie. I thoroughly enjoy it. Shout out Blade Runner 2049. Sure. Yeah. Force Awakens, great movie. We're at a stalemate, but we love being in Chicago. We love doing the Fugitive Podcast with all of you. Thank you all for coming out. Thank you.

That's Mallard, Chris, Craig, I'm Bill. Thank you. It was an absolute pleasure. It's really fun to do this and we'll be running this, I think, next Monday if you want to hear yourself laugh and be horrified. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

All right, that's it for the rewatchables. Live edition, The Fugitive. We're going to be back next week, either with another live show that we did, or we might just do a new one because some stuff has happened in movies. And there's a couple of movies I've been thinking about. So we will see. Stay tuned. This podcast was produced by Craig Koralbeck, as always.

Thanks to Elizabeth Fehrman and David Lara for all their help on the rewatchables tour as well. And if you want to watch any of this stuff, go to bill Simmons.com slash, or no, go to youtube.com slash bill civets. And you'll be able to find clips and entire videos from the tour. So see you next week.