The Rise and Fall of Ruby Franke | #FreeChad | 2
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This is a Law & Crime Network presentation. This podcast explores themes of child abuse and trauma. Please listen with care. ♪

I've never, never once forgotten to vlog. It's like forgetting to eat or forgetting to breathe. For me, like picking up the camera and vlogging, it's like I would never forget to do that. But the thing is, is when you get around a lot of these people behind the scenes, you know, it's like flexing a muscle. They can only keep up those appearances, put on the mask for the camera for so long.

You only got a little gist of it on camera. All the discipline takes place off camera. My first thought when I heard this was that this is not something that sounds safe for a child. I have to tell you, Chad, I'm really glad you're home. Our house is so much better with you here. But there's one part of me that really hates that you're here.

I remember Ruby talking about how he had like broken bones from it and like all these repercussions and it just didn't sit right. And that was kind of like the first inkling of like, okay, something's really not right here. I'm Paula Barrows and this is The Rise and Fall of Ruby Franke, presented by Law & Crime.

Good morning, passengers. I am so happy. Good morning, passengers. Today is a good morning, passengers. I wanted to share a tip with you. Ruby Frankie's blog channel, 8 Passengers, is gaining a following. Nearly two and a half million subscribers and counting, whom the blonde-haired, eager-eyed mom of six lovingly refers to as passengers.

Ruby continues to, moment by moment, document the Frankie family life out of their home in Springville, Utah. Her oldest daughter, 15-year-old Sherry Frankie, acts as Ruby's lieutenant.

Alice Dawes is a history teacher who wrote her thesis on Christian fundamentalist families in the Midwestern U.S.,

Now based in Australia, Alice has been following eight passengers since the beginning. Sherry, yeah, took on this role that you see in a lot of these, in a lot of kind of Christian communities in particular, that of the kind of caretaker of her younger siblings. Jordan Forsyth is an ex-Mormon and co-host of the podcast Embracing Apostasy with Jordan and McKay, where she and her husband McKay explore topics related to religious fundamentalism.

The two also have an eponymous YouTube channel that boasts over 80,000 followers, with an entire section devoted to analysis of eight passengers and Ruby Frankie. By day, Jordan is a social worker who specializes in working with clients with extreme religious backgrounds.

She shed light on the expectations of the eldest child in a traditional Mormon home. It's just the demands being put on a mother with that many children cannot possibly attend to all of their physical and emotional needs realistically themselves. And if they have a partner who works primarily, the only other person that they have that's in the home the majority of the time is the eldest child.

In her field, there's a term for this type of outsourcing of responsibility in the home. The word that we use for it is parentification because that's essentially what, you know, the oldest child becomes as they become an additional parent. And then they're expected to help with the siblings with making food, with changing diapers, with helping with school stuff. Like it is just kind of

you know, babysitting without like compensation. It is just kind of the standard within Mormon families that the older siblings step in and help. But it is very common within Mormonism if you have a lot of kids. Did we make it? Yes. Are we all in the van? Yes. Let's take these kids back to school. What? Thank you, Sherry, for helping me. I could not have done this morning without you. Thank you.

Is everyone okay? Oh my gosh. Are we hit? Are we hit? Are they okay? Are they okay? You're okay? I'm okay. In an unexpectedly dramatic video, the sound of tires screeching is heard as Ruby and her kids are headed to their first day of the school year in their iconic eight-passenger white Chevy Express van. Ruby hurls the door open and runs towards a blue car with its airbags deployed on the side of the road.

The front of the two-door blue car is smashed in, debris strewn about the highway. Ruby runs up to the man inside, who signals he's okay, but looks confused as to why there's a camera in his face. She continues to run along the road, flipping the camera around to her face as she approaches the other car involved in the crash. The camera then pans to a man in a red truck, who signals he's okay too.

Okay, I think he's okay. This tire blew. It looked like the tire blew. And I-- was I right behind him? I don't even remember what happened. Shaky. Ruby is frantic as she makes her way back to the van with all six of her children in tow. Tensions are high in the back seat. The kids, dressed in their red and blue school uniforms, are in apparent distress. But she makes sure the camera is still rolling, focused on Russell, who's crying.

Everyone's okay, Russell. It's okay. What happened? It's okay. Everyone's safe. It's okay. For avid viewer Julia, this was the first video on the 8 Passengers YouTube channel that raised suspicion.

Julia found the Frankies when she was in high school. One of her teachers was Mormon, and she became curious about Mormon culture. Online searches about Mormonism led her to YouTube, where she found eight passengers. And she quickly became enamored with the charming and funny Frankie children.

But for Julia, the car crash video was a hard pivot from Ruby's other vlogs. The way Ruby filmed it and edited it was so strange. Her kids are distraught, crying in the background. And her first thought is, let me whip out a camera and film my child clearly upset because we almost got in a car accident. It's just...

It's just odd behavior. Like when I look back, vlogging your children is just odd behavior in general. I want to tell you something and I want you to really listen. We should have been in that crash. I don't know how we avoided getting hit, but you know what? There is not a single scratch on our car. There is not one person who got whiplash. And do you know why?

Because we said our prayers this morning and we tried our best to do what Heavenly Father wanted us to do. And you know what? Nobody's hurt. And I know it's because the Lord is watching out for our family and for others. And we're okay. And we're going to get to school.

Carl Andreessen is a documentarian and ex-Mormon vlogger based in Utah. He remembers seeing the vlog titled Car Crash on First Day of School, too. I would say doing whatever it takes to get views for YouTube. There's a lot of content creators that will compromise the safety and the lives of their own children in order to do that.

Carl first started his YouTube channel when he weighed 400 pounds. His vlog followed his journey of reaching his 175-pound weight loss goal. After Carl lost the weight, he wanted to keep the channel going. His content shifted to the style of eight passengers. Being a vlogger himself and an ex-Mormon, Carl knows a thing or two about Ruby's world. He shared observations from his own experience.

To avoid liability, when I talk about specifically what families were like, I can say that Mormonism and being content creators on public online on a daily basis creates a type of dynamic like a pressure cooker, where you have these closeted issues and other things that

not only can you not express or explore or have in your life just regularly as a member of the Mormon church, but the fact that your life is public every day and that you're filming it and posting what you're doing online and with your kids,

you're under an extra layer of scrutiny and pressure that causes those secrets and those issues. But the thing is, is when you get around a lot of these people behind the scenes, you know, it's like flexing a muscle. They can only keep up those appearances and put on the mask for the camera or for the public for so long.

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As 2019 progressed, fans like Julia noticed the mask coming off and a growing amount of concerning videos popping up on 8 Passengers' channel. There's a couple that stand out. And I don't know if it felt more like kooky because all of this was kind of so gradual, in my opinion, that it's more like hindsight bias when you look back on it. But there were a couple videos that were just like weird.

One of those videos shows Ruby and Sherry cleaning red nail polish off the tile floor and bath mat of the master bathroom. We had family dinner and

I was looking and looking and looking for Eve and I was like, why isn't Eve at the dinner table yet? She usually comes to dinner as soon as I call her. Then I go looking outside. We've been looking for 30 straight minutes for her and I was starting to get worried and I was like, okay, we're going to start calling around the neighborhood and if I can't find Eve in the next 20 minutes, I'm calling the police. And then I found this.

The youngest Frankie daughter, Eve, had gotten into Ruby's manicure kit, made a mess, then hid under her parents' bed. That's where she had been the whole time they were looking for her. A close-up shot captures Ruby scrubbing nail polish out of the grout. She's visibly frustrated with Eve.

You only got a little gist of it on camera. All the discipline takes place off camera. But one of the consequences is she will not be getting her nails painted for a solid month. And that's like her favorite thing is to have me do her nails. And she's going to have to go without for a month until she learns that she's not old enough to do this yet by herself. Once the floor is clean to Ruby's liking, Russell approaches her.

Eve slumps into the bathroom in a pink t-shirt and a denim skirt. She wraps her arms around her mom. Sorry. Sorry.

Sorry for what? I'm sorry for, um, making a mess and... I am more upset that you came in my room when you knew you weren't supposed to. And you got into my things that you knew were not yours. That makes me more upset than making a mess. Because messes happen, but you were sneaking. And then you hid instead of telling me the truth. I was just really sorry, and I didn't mean to do it.

And then I said I shouldn't have done this idea. You knew that it was a bad idea? Yeah. You're still going to have the consequence of not having your nails done for a month. You understand that? Yes. And I still want to buy you another rug. You still want to buy me a new rug? Maybe you can do some extra chores to help with the money. It's a deal. Give me a hug.

The nail polish incident was merely an establishing glimpse into Ruby's penchant for exposing her children's misgivings. In another brow-raising video from January 2019, Ruby takes seven-year-old Russell aside to share the results of his school's reading assessment. You're at a level N. Huge. Yes, that's like at the very end of the year, like beginning second grade level. In just... Wait, I'm in the second grade level?

What starts out as a congratulatory moment quickly devolves into bizarre commentary from Ruby after Russell excitedly jumps to celebrate his achievement and accidentally bumps his mom in the corner of her eye. Yes. Sorry. You just punched me in the eye. I'm sorry. Okay, this conversation is not going as well as I hoped.

Oh my gosh, when your kid like jumps up and hits you in the face, I literally just want to punch him back. It's like taking a... It's a good thing the camera's on. Her reaction to Russell's accidental blow seems disproportionate. She even doubles down and makes light of her reactivity as she takes the camera with her into another room. That little stinker. Aren't kids like that? You're like...

Still, viewers are lapping up Ruby's increasingly weird vlogs.

Yeah, I definitely think what was bringing the people in was probably the kids. The kids were normal and I think people just felt bad for them at a certain point. Originally, I think everyone tries to look for the good in people. I think a lot of people come from broken homes and so maybe their only source of a real family was to watch it on YouTube.

So I think that might have been like the initial draw for a lot of people. And then eventually it was just kind of like watching a car wreck. Like you don't really want to look, but you can't look away. About a month later, Ruby publishes a vlog after learning her oldest son, Chad, has been suspended from school for insubordination.

The video opens with her holding her phone up to read from a text message. It's from Kevin. Chad just called me from the office at school. He and his friends were clowns and were disrespectful today. He was given two choices. Have a parent come in with him tomorrow. Not going to happen. I can't do that. Or miss a day of school. I told them that Chad will stay home tomorrow and work for his mother.

Ruby is clearly frustrated by the news of Chad's behavior and begins listing off the chores he'll be put up to in lieu of the school day he'll be missing. By the time we get to 2019, her son Chad...

was cast as the rebel within the family. He's the oldest boy. Shari you have is very, you know, very studious, very bright in school. Chad struggled a lot in school and his behaviour wasn't up to the very kind of strict standards that his parents had held for him. As soon as Chad, I think, began entering his teenage years, that's when I think Ruby began to feel a sense of loss of control and

or the beginnings of loss and control. And that's where I think these more harsh parenting strategies started to come into play. Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. She was a romance mystery writer who happens to be married to a chef. But this story didn't end with a happily ever after.

When I stepped into the kitchen, I could see that Chef Brophy was on the ground, and I heard somebody say, call 911. As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries. So when suspicion turned to Dan's wife, Nancy, we weren't that surprised. The first person they'd look at would be the spouse. We understand that's usually the way they do it. But we began to wonder, had Nancy gotten so wrapped up in her own novels... There are murders in all of the books. ...that she was playing them out in real life?

You can listen to Happily Never After, Dan and Nancy, early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Ruby continues to vlog throughout the school year, documenting the usual struggles of any parent hoping to keep their kids on track. Chores, homework, bad grades, backtalk, and teenage angst.

Life goes on as usual for all six of the Frankie children as they finally arrive at the end of the school year, including the youngest, Eve, who began school in the spring. For most kids, summer break is a reprieve from rigid structure, a time to sleep in, see friends, and savor every moment schoolwork isn't occupying the afternoon.

But for the Frankies, summer means a robust chore docket and more time at home to be on camera. Subscribers followed as the Frankies' summer unfolded with videos following the kids checking off their reading lists, a trip to Philadelphia, and back-to-school shopping. They gradually notice that Chad is no longer appearing in the vlogs.

Longtime "8 Passengers" viewer Alexis Anderson remembers Chad's presence becoming scarce. It wasn't like her to have a child in her household that just wasn't on camera. So we noticed early on that something was wrong, he wasn't there. We always knew that he was not her quote-unquote favorite, you know. So we just kind of brushed it off for a little bit, but then it became very strange.

YouTube comments asking, where's Chad, are dominating the 8 Passengers channel. And by August, viewers finally get an answer. Well, you know it's a serious video when it's me sitting down and talking. But if it's the two of us sitting down and talking, it's like... Even more serious. Really...

The 12-minute video opens with a shot of Chad in white shorts, a white shirt, and black visor.

A backpack slumped over his shoulders, walking through an airport parking lot. Then, cuts to a tight shot of Ruby and Kevin seated next to one another on a hotel bed.

In this video, they divert from their typical upbeat tone. You can see on their faces that emotions are running high. The last two weeks I've just been like, "Go, go, go, do it. This is what we're doing." And now that we're sitting in the hotel and I have like Chad's bag of belongings, now the emotions can set in and now I can cry. I haven't let myself do that yet. Okay, so you're probably wondering what the heck we're talking about.

Chad today has just entered the Anasazi Foundation Wilderness Therapy Program.

where he's going to spend the next eight to ten weeks living in the... Anasazi Desert. Yeah, the desert mountains of Arizona. And he'll be with counselors and other youth that are trying to figure some things out. So you're probably wondering, "What did Chad do? What did...?" Okay, let's... We're not even going to entertain that stuff, but it's an accumulation of things over years

well before we ever started YouTubing or well before we ever got into social media. And it's reached a point where Chad needs to develop some very basic maturity and skills that he's going to need as an adult. This is a chance for like a reset, like a start over, like a do over, like a fresh beginning.

Anasazi Foundation describes itself as a therapeutic outdoor behavioral treatment healthcare program and wilderness rehab for adolescents ages 12 to 17 struggling with depression, anxiety, self-image, defiance, family conflict, mental health, lack of motivation, mild mood disorders, drug and alcohol experimentation, internet addiction, entitlement issues, and

and other self-defeating behaviors. And in the vlog, Kevin explains the idea behind the program is that if you can survive in the wilderness with nothing more than the clothes on your back and field supplies given, there's nothing in this world you can't tackle. While the two refuse to entertain the specific catalyst for sending Chad to Anasazi, they allude to the challenges they were facing with him that led them to their decision.

We did give him a choice. The choices were limited. We had like three or four choices on the table. And we made it clear what our boundaries are as a family, where we're willing to go, and what we would like to see. Our expectations were very clear. And we made it clear if these expectations, these basic everyday things,

expectations aren't met if you don't live within this parameter. Or demonstrate just basic life skills. Basic life skills, basic, basic stuff that every adult needs to learn. Then this is where we're going. You can do this, you can do this, you can do this. This is these are our options. And it came to this Anasazi camp.

Alice Dawes said that this is when she really became more suspicious of Ruby and Kevin's parenting style. And when they explained where he was, that he was at a teen wilderness camp, that this was a place where they sent troubled teens and part of the troubled teen industry in the United States. That's when I really think alarm bells began to sound for me.

She questioned the efficacy of institutions like Anasazi. Those who have survived these institutions, a lot of them as adults have come back to criticize what they went through and to reveal a lot of the trauma that they experienced within these places. Alice understands the need to address behavioral issues in children, but it was the way Ruby described Anasazi's approach and treatment timeline that really raised her concern.

I'm not saying that children who have behaviour issues or are getting into crime or need support don't need intervention, but I'm not sure that sending a child away into the wilderness for... At this point, Ruby said she didn't know how long Chad would be away, and I think the fact that it was open-ended is another red flag there. So in my first thought when I heard this was that this is not something that sounds safe for a child.

But Kevin and Ruby saw things differently. What I lose sleep over is when kids start self-sabotaging their own efforts. That's the kind of stuff that really concerns me. Just to stick it to their teachers or to stick it to their parents or family. And the only person they're really hurting is themselves.

That's the kind of behavior that we're hoping this program can help Chad correct. So... We're not thinking that anyone's going to be, like, fixed or corrected, but, like... Reveal it to him. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. Yeah, because no one can fix anybody. A person has to choose if they're going to make changes in their lives. And so...

I think this experience will reveal Chad and everyone else who's out there to themselves, and they can learn to better themselves or just...

- Yeah, they were saying that the Anasazi way is where nature will reflect back to you. - So bottom line, it's gonna be a long time before any of us sees Chad. We'll hear from him weekly in letters, the family will, and we'll write letters to him. But in the meantime, if everyone could

Keep your thoughts and prayers for him and our family. And we're excited to see how all of us, not just Chad, but all of us are impacted and changed by this experience. Now that the cat was out of the bag for eight passengers' followers, the family returns to the regularly scheduled program without Chad.

Their vlogs are peppered with mentions of missing their brother, but the Frankie clan stays busy. Russell goes to Boy Scouts, Abby and Sherry practice their musical instruments, and Eve is psyched to officially be a kindergartner. Then, on October 15th, 2019, eight passengers post their latest video, titled "Reuniting with Our Son." Ruby films herself packing their sleeping bags and suitcases for their trip back to the Arizona wilderness.

For the first time, viewers see the environment where Chad spent the past 10 weeks through a car window. It's a remote desert landscape with more greenery than you're probably imagining.

You look so good! Holy crap. You look so good. You can't just...

They share an emotional group hug. Ruby is sobbing as she rubs Chad's back in the elongated embrace. This feels like a private family moment, but a camera crew appears to be filming the reunion from multiple angles. Chad appears rugged.

His hands are filthy, covered in dirt and scratches. His hair is long and messy. Once everyone dries their tears, Chad begins to demonstrate what he's learned out at Anasazi. The vlog ends with a montage of Chad showing Ruby and Kevin how to pitch a blue tarp into a makeshift shelter, tying rope to trees to hoist the corners up. He then uses a handmade bow to start a fire with sticks, and the three of them camp for the night.

By morning, the cameras are rolling again, this time capturing footage for a video titled Living on the Trail with Chad. This was the worst night sleep of my life. Ruby is wrapped in a blue and green sleeping bag, sharing her experience of spending one night under the circumstances Chad had just spent two and a half months.

Chad then shows his parents how he spent his days. Interspersed with shots of the native flora, he walks his parents through how he'd ration and prepare food and water, keep warm, and forage.

At the end of the video, Ruby shares with Chad that his absence from their videos has caused quite the stir on social media. There's a hashtag on Instagram going around, hashtag free Chad. As you can see, I'm comfortable. I'm not a slave or anything.

I'm eating my cupcake. I'm good. You don't need to free me. I enjoy this place, so... I'm here now. I'm free. What was that story you were telling about alumni? So every Tuesday, the alumni services come out to take pictures of you and send them to your parents. And every single time the alumni services would come out, they would say, people keep calling the office saying, free Chad. They get constant calls to the alumni service. Send Chad home. Like this is a prison or something. Yeah, so...

It's not a prison, guys. I had a good time. But to viewers like Alexis, there was something...

unsettling about Ruby attempting to settle the score on Chad's stay at Anasazi. And then to see where she sent him off and to do my own research, and I'm like sitting up at night googling and going down like a rabbit hole of what this camp, whatever they want to call it, is. It was very hard. It was hard to watch. It was hard to know that someone close to my age was being forced to do something like that. And then the fact that when they, at the end of the

program when the parents got to go with him and they were like enjoying it. Like they laughed about it and thought it was fun and cool and nothing was fun or cool about that. Two days after Ruby shares her and Kevin's reunion with Chad, viewers see him reunite with his five siblings. They run across the front yard, hugging him one by one.

culminating in one collective embrace. It's a tender moment. Chad remarks on how much more grown up each of his siblings look since he last saw them. "I love this, it's crazy." The vlog follows Chad settling back in. He takes his first shower in ten weeks and catches himself in the mirror for the first time too. Ruby walks Chad through the newly renovated house while all six kids trail behind.

She then reveals she revamped Chad and Russell's room too, complete with new beds covered in red plaid sheets. On the wall in the bedroom is a sign that says, "Walk forward" with an arrow, Anasazi Foundation's slogan. In their bathroom is another sign that says, "Eyes up, feet forward and hearts homeward." Ruby tells him it's the actual one from the wilderness program.

Once he's settled back in, Chad agrees to do a Q&A for 8 Passenger's YouTube channel. Here we go. Ready? Where did you go? Anasazi. And where is that? Arizona. Tata National Forest. Okay, why did you go there? Because I was a bad boy. That is not true. It was true. Sorry, I am totally triggered because I've tried to teach Chad, like, everyone's a good boy because you are divine.

We make choices that aren't good, but that doesn't make you not good. Anyway. Okay, so totally triggered. Let's go on to the next choice. Question, I mean. Okay, what was your biggest takeaway from Anasazi? I'm a good boy. Thank you.

How did you break your toe? So we were at camp and we all had our shoes off because it was a nice camp. We didn't have to have our boots on. So all I just had our shoes off and my friend was like, Chad. And I turned around and he said, down, sit, hut. And he has this bag of grits and just hooked it at me and it hit my back and it exploded. But I didn't see where I was going. So I tripped over a log and I fell. I'm like, oh, I just stubbed my toe.

and it was all fine blah blah blah and then it really started hurting because some toes usually hurt for like five to ten seconds and then just go away but this one like started again pain up the scale more and more and something was wrong with it and then it started turning black and um we couldn't do anything about it we just let it heal on its own

Ruby continues to press Chad. Are you scared that when you go back to your normal life, you'll fall back into old routines or habits that took you on your journey? I already have. But the whole point of going out there was knowing that I will not be perfect and I will mess up, which I already have. And just the matter of fact, if I'm going to be able to be humble again,

Julia remembers the Q&A video. She sensed

subtext in Ruby's questioning that made her nervous while watching it. If there really was a reason to send him, he would come back and be like really different. I mean, he wasn't probably because there was no reason to send him in the first place. But then I remember Ruby talking about how he had like broken bones from it and like all these repercussions. And it just didn't sit

right. And that was kind of like the first inkling of like, okay, something's really not right here with Ruby. Never, it was never about the kids being like weird. It was always Ruby and Kevin, like not sitting right with me. But particularly the Anasazi was kind of my tipping point as to when I stopped watching. Now that Chad's back home, he's once again regularly featured on 8 Passengers.

In one rambling video Ruby posted at the end of October 2019, not even two weeks since Chad returned, the two have a bizarre exchange. I have to tell you, Chad, I'm really glad you're home. Our house is so much better with you here.

But there's one part of me that really hates that you're here. Do you want me to tell you what it is? I started eating desserts and my stomach hurts so bad every day. I can't handle it. What does that have to do with me? That is your decision to eat those desserts. I guess that's what I get from...

Ruby alludes to an ambiguous concept of truth, of which the two seem to suddenly have a shared understanding. Something about it feels both mystical and vague, like a newly acquired dogma out of a self-improvement book.

Chad's gotten really good at figuring out truth. He actually... So tell me what you learned yesterday about... So I had a phone call yesterday with my therapist, and she taught me about truth and distortion. Mom probably talks about Jodi all the time. By mentioning his therapist's name, Chad wasn't far off. If eight passengers' subscribers hadn't learned of Jodi yet, they were about to get well acquainted.

By 2019, she'd met Jodi Hildebrandt, that Jodi was teaching her to become a life coach. I just got back from a little retreat with Kevin, and we talked about starting a podcast, perhaps a second YouTube channel where we can talk about some of the things that we're learning.

and how to answer your questions. But if we started a channel where we could kind of be your life coach and give you some advice, I think it would be really great practice for me

We see a split in priorities from getting the views, from the popularity to, well, this is the right way to parent. I'm a parenting, I'm a mother, that's my job first and foremost. And we see that within Christian circles as well, the role of mother is the heart of the household. And under the influence of Jodie Hildebrandt completely kind of took a different track.

She deprived her child of that basic necessity when she had the means. So to me, that was just completely unacceptable. And the fact that she was laughing about it in the video and then thought it was okay to post online just kind of goes to show there was seriously something wrong with her psyche there. That's all coming up on The Rise and Fall of Ruby Franke.

This has been a Law & Crime production. I'm your host, Paula Barrows. Our executive producer is Jessica Lowther. Our producer and writer is Cooper Maul. Additional writing by Jennifer Tintner. Our editor is Brad Mabey. Our bookers are Alyssa Fisher and Diane Kay. And special thanks to Sean Panzera for designing our key art.