Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life
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Welcome back, my friend to another episode on the School of Greatness. We have a massive guest today. Her name is Mel Robbins. I've known her for over eight years. And she is literally exploding everywhere right now with her new book, The Let Them Theory, which I think has been number one on Amazon for almost three or four months now. And number one in the New York Times best seller list for the last few months. It is everywhere. And we sat down

During my book tour in the last few weeks ago, we sat down and talked about her personal journey of how she's actually navigating this cultural phenomenon that's happening with her book, The Let Them Theory. And she shares how she's dealing with success and staying grounded and staying present. This is the type of goal, success, or dream that most people who have an idea, who want to launch a product or a book or a

course or anything like that, this is the dream most people have. They want to be number one on the bestseller list. They want to be number one on the New York Times list. They want to have the number one podcast in the world. This is the dream. If you have a podcast, a book, if you're trying to do anything in this industry online, Mel is at the top of the game right now. And if that's something you've ever wanted to learn how to do, or even just get your stuff started and learning how to

manage and navigate the success, the weight, the pressure of it all because there is extremes. Once you hit the extreme, she's going to be sharing some of this process and she really opens up about her personal journey of healing childhood trauma, breaking free from destructive patterns that have held her back and finally learning to feel at peace with herself regardless of the achievements and the criticism and all of it.

She doesn't hold back about her struggles with self-doubt, anxiety, and the constant need for control that plagued her for decades. If anyone here listening right now has ever wanted to control everything about your work or your career or your message that goes out and you've wanted to look a certain way and you want everyone to like you, this is going to be perfect for you. If something's been holding you back on your insecurities or your self-doubt, you're going to want to listen to this

over and over again. And you're going to want to share this with your friends and family because I know you have people in your life who are blocking their ability to create freedom inside of them and externally to get to the next level of what they want. There's a lot of talented people out there who are being held back by some of these things. So if you know someone in your life like that, then please,

send them this link because you're gonna get a ton out of this conversation. Again, we got to share during my book tour. If you haven't gotten my new book, "Make Money Easy," it's all about healing your relationship with money so you can set yourself into financial freedom internally and externally.

Make sure to grab a copy of Make Money Easy. And also, if you have not got a copy yet, I don't know where you've been in the last few months, make sure to get a copy of The Let Them Theory, again, which is number one on every book list out there in the world right now and continues to just go bananas all over the place. Make sure to get a copy of each one of them. And I cannot wait for you to dive into this episode with the one, the only Mel Robbins. ♪

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Switch to Verizon Business and get more from your internet without paying more for your internet. Get LTE Business Internet starting at $39 a month when paired with select business mobile plans. That's unlimited data and with it, unlimited possibilities. Start saving today with Verizon Business. Ranked number one in small business internet customer satisfaction by J.D. Power.

Starting price for 25 megabits per second LTE internet plan with smartphone plan savings, plus taxes, fees, and economic adjustment charge. Terms apply. For J.D. Power 2024 award information, visit jdpower.com slash awards. You know, I just had you on the show a few months ago. Uh-huh. But it was before the madness. Yeah. It was like the madness was coming. You knew it was about to hit, but it's hit in the last few months in a big way, in a beautiful way. Yeah. How have you been able to...

expand your emotional nervous system and your kind of energetic container to be able to... What the hell kind of question is that? What am I saying?

How have you been able to prepare to be able to receive this much abundance? Oh, it's a great... That is actually... You know what? I just learned that when you say actually, it is like a backhanded compliment. You're actually really nice. Yeah, it's actually a good question. I'm sorry. You're actually... That wasn't that bad. Right, because it's a filler word for me, so I don't mean it to be that way. It's a great question because there's no question that this is...

Kind of one of the biggest moments of my life. And I think there are going to be times in your life where you're getting married or divorced, right? Or you're having a child or you're giving a eulogy or you're graduating or you're launching a business or you're putting your art out into the world and you recognize that this is a moment. Mm-hmm.

And so as this thing started to take off and, you know, you said this is this Mel, I've known you for eight years. And, you know, I, Lewis and I have a very, like, you can probably already tell a relationship like a older sister, younger brother. And he was the first person to interview me when I self-published the five second rule book. So this man showed up for me when nobody else

Like, knew who I was. I'd never, like, done anything. Had no social following. And Lewis kind of plucked me from obscurity and supported me. And I think it's so important to remember the people who supported you. And so it's been an interesting experience because I know that this is way bigger than me. I mean, I'm obviously, this is not a new idea that you stress yourself out when you focus on things that are outside your control.

Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, Stoicism, Buddhism, the Serenity Prayer. As you start to use this in your life, you probably remember things your grandparents said to you or things that your parents said around the kitchen table or that you heard at a sermon or at synagogue. And so it's sort of powerful because it's reminding you of something you already know. And so as this started to take off and resonate,

And I'm realizing this is one of those moments. I have missed out on so much of my life because I was anxious or afraid or felt like I was undeserving. I was not able to be present and allow it in that I was like, I am not missing this. And so I asked somebody for some advice and they gave me this kind of visual where they said, I want you to just imagine that you're on a plane and the plane is moving 500 miles an hour at velocity. And you're going to feel like this at times in your life.

And what's weird about these moments is that there's this sense of acceleration, but there's also this real slowing down if you can allow yourself to be present. Like if you've ever been present for a child being born, if you've ever stood at the end of a Nile as your partner is about to walk in. It's a moment. It's a moment.

And so I have just visualized myself kind of in an airplane that's moving 500 miles an hour. But my job is to sit in the seat and to have my water or something a little harder. Yeah.

And look out the window and occasionally check out the view. Enjoy the view. Yes. And I think that it's a useful thing because I've also, in the middle of this, you know, things are going on in life and things are going on, you know, with my kids and with my husband and everything's not perfect. But I've even noticed that when stuff feels like it's flying sideways, just having this

meditation to say, okay, my life can feel like it's moving super fast, but if I just take a breath and remind myself that I don't need to get caught up in this, I can really just stay present in the moment. And that's what's helped me to kind of allow it in and also just realize it's just so much bigger than me. Like this is tapped into something. Like I think there are times in life where

There's a lot of negativity, whether it's in your relationship or your family or your community or the world at large. And if you pay attention, there are corresponding positive messages. And I feel that right now in particular, I mean, you all showed up. What night is it tonight? Is it a Monday? I think it's Monday. Oh, my God. On a Monday night. Tuesday night. I don't know. See, I'm not that present. A Tuesday night.

to be at an inspiring event because you're the kind of person that wants to grow and learn and surround yourself with other people who do. That is a big deal. Like there are millions of people 20 miles from here, millions and millions, but you chose to be here. That says something about you. And so I also feel that, you know, in moments where things feel overwhelming in life, that

Being somebody that is putting something positive out and showing up for people is more important than ever. And you're doing that by being here and you're doing that by what you do. And so I think kind of you receive, you're able to receive it if you're present and if you realize it's almost never about you. Interesting. Now for the last question,

Eight years since I've known you, and you were working really hard and developing your communication skills for many years before then. You've been one of the top speakers in the world. You've had big moments. You're a great content creator, marketer, entrepreneur. Like, you've done a lot of big things in the last eight years. It's not like this is out of nowhere. For those who are entrepreneurs in the room who have been, like, trying to build it and grow it or maybe are struggling, how did you, I guess...

emotionally prepare yourself? I know I already asked this a little bit, but how did you really emotionally prepare yourself for what was really to come? I don't think you do. I really don't. No, I'll tell you why, because that question presumes that I like somehow was self-aware enough in the middle of the stuff that you're doing to actually think that I need to prepare myself for something else. Now,

It's going to sound like I'm contradicting myself. So you knew this was going to be big, though. You had a there was like an energy before. Let's go. So if you go back in time, right, like one of my favorite things to do, because personally, I personally believe whether we're talking business or you're talking building a social media following or you're talking any kind of art that you want to take off, any kind of money you want to make. I literally believe, Lewis.

that success is a matter of not quitting. Like that's what it comes down to. It really does. And you know, more than anything else, like I just was like a tenacious person. I'm just like, I'm not going to stop here. And there were so many things that I did not do well. Not at all.

I mean, like, in terms of, like, just the talk show that literally got canceled because it sucked. Oh, my God, I love you. Thank you for being there.

I'll blame the fact that it was canceled on me and not on you, okay? Here's the thing. It didn't suck, though. I mean, how many episodes did you do? Well, we taped like 174. So it can't suck if you do 174 episodes. That's true, but they were airing it. Well, it can really stink. But also, there was COVID, right? It stopped because of COVID. Yeah, but you know what, Lewis? I'm going to be honest. You're discounting yourself, though. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to stop Mel for a second because you're discounting yourself. No, you've got to look at the ratings. People were not watching, and when they don't watch...

- You don't make money. And then they cancel the show. - Just 'cause people don't watch doesn't mean it sucks. - Okay, now, so hold on. Let's build on this, right? So here's the thing that I developed out of survival. So there are the things that you do out of survival that turn out to be brilliant.

And when I was creating some of the things that I'm about to share with you, they were not because I was brilliant. It was because I was trying to keep myself going, especially in times when I needed to pay bills and I needed to get out of debt. And so whenever I felt like quitting, I would literally have a pep talk with myself and I would say,

this is not how my story is going to end. I just refuse to believe that. And I refuse to believe that this is how it ends. And so I would say those kinds of things to myself, even though I felt like this is the end and I just made the stupidest decision I could have ever made or I just lost more money or that didn't work out, just another twist, another... And so that's one thing that I would do. The second thing that I would do, Lewis, is...

There's this thing that I do with time traveling where I go to the past and I go to the future. So it's easy in this moment. I don't know where you are in your business. I don't know where you are in your career or your life, but it is easy to sit in this moment and to look backwards and to make sense of all of the twists and turns that have happened to you. Right. And

To say to yourself, okay, I can see the lessons. I can see how I grew. I can see how that made me stronger. It is a very important skill to take that ability of making sense of the past and actually project it forward. And this is how you develop faith in yourself and your capability to

to see yourself through the twists and turns that life is going to demand of you. And so as you sit in this moment,

The skill to develop from this point forward is to look ahead and tell yourself that I have faith that this moment too, just like every moment I can see in the past is but a brick on the path of my life that is leading me towards something I cannot see yet. And I have faith that whatever this experience is delivering, no matter how much it blows,

no matter how painful it is, no matter how much I don't deserve this, that this too will be part of the thing that gets me to something even greater. And that is how I built what you're talking about, but never in a million years. Like I am, I have big aspirations and goals just like everybody here. That's why you're here on a Tuesday night.

Right. You're investing in yourself. You're learning. You're surrounding yourself with with incredible people that want to do the same. And so even though I had amazing goals like this is completely just blown apart. What I ever thought was possible for myself. Crazy.

In a good way. Completely shocked and humbled by it all. What was the goal of like, okay, I'm going to launch this book. And did you have like a number in mind of how big it would be? And then it just went so far above and beyond? Is that what happened? I just had always thought

that it would be great to have a book that I don't even know. I wasn't even thinking like 10 million copies of this or the other. Who sells that many books? Who's even reading books? So I just never thought, because it's bigger than that. It is something that has transcended the 322 pages. It has caught wind at a moment in time

where everybody needs help, focusing on what's in your control so that you can focus on what's meaningful and so that you can protect yourself from outside stressors

that are draining your time and energy. Like never more in my life has this been more important or more relevant. And so I never, ever, Lewis, thought that I would be, I never thought that I would just be somebody that this many people knew about or that my work would be this public. Like I know the impact of the five-second rule.

I know how that has spread around the world. We know of more than 1,000 people that have taken the time to write to us who did not die by suicide because they used the five-second rule in a moment to stop themselves and ask for help.

And so I thought that is the most extraordinary thing that could ever happen to a person, to put something out into the world that actually helps people and saves lives. So to think that this tool has so far eclipsed that, it's just unreal.

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Starting price for 25 megabits per second LTE internet plan with smartphone plan savings, plus taxes, fees, and economic adjustment charge. Terms apply. For J.D. Power 2024 award information, visit jdpower.com slash awards. And what have you done before you got here? I was talking about the weight of gold. There's a documentary called The Weight of Gold, which is where Olympians kind of sabotage themselves after they win the gold medal. Oh, I'm never writing another book because I can't top this. That's what you mean. No, not that. Not that. But how have you...

stayed present within yourself

to make sure you don't sabotage yourself with the success? Like how have you said like, oh, am I actually deserving of this or am I actually worthy of this? How have you made sure you've been able to say yes? I don't even think about that. You don't think about it? No, because I know how hard I worked writing that book with my daughter and how much research went into it and the experts. So you don't have any doubt around like... Zero. That's good. Zero, because here's the other thing. I don't, like I'm very proud of the impact. I'm just proud that people are reading a book.

I'm proud that people are interested in this moment in time in reading a nonfiction book. A self-help. Are you kidding me?

And that they're, I know they're reading it, why? Because they're recommending it to people. And so I think it's bigger than a book because to me that's a sign of hope that people are taking time and turning it inward to improve themselves, which is how you create a ripple effect that improves everything. And so, you know, I guess I, the one thing that I'm doing is,

I feel very lucky because we live in Vermont, right? So it is not, I could not live in LA. It's peaceful in Vermont. Oh, there's mountains, there's trees, there's the, you know, we raised our family here in Boston. And then we moved to Southern Vermont and my son went to high school up there. And it is not in my face. It is easy to not get full of yourself.

When you wake up and there's bear poop in your driveway and you shop at a hardware store for your groceries and you, nobody cares. And honestly that like, I don't either. And so I,

feel like I'm removed from the noise that is media and the machine and all the stuff that could really trip me up. And since it's not my face, I don't really think about it. That's amazing. But I know your story from in your early 40s. I think it was like $800,000 or a million dollars in debt. 19 miles from here, everybody. Right by Framingham. Yep. 19 miles. 2008.

$800,000 in debt. My husband had restaurants in the Boston area. So how do you build belief after having big financial failures? How do you continue to show up again and again and not just say, I am a failure, not this was a failure? Right. Everybody hates this answer. Yeah. Because it's not a pill. Yeah.

No, it's serious. And it's not like a quick fix and it's not one thing. Like I literally will tell you what changed my life was getting out of bed when I didn't feel like it. And the reason why that's important, and it's the same thing that you talk about and nobody wants to hear it. I don't even want to hear this. Is that...

There is a skill in life that I didn't learn until I was 41 years old and I was about to lose everything. And the skill is, can you do the things you need to do when you don't feel like doing them? It's that simple. Everything that you want to create in business and in life is possible through action and patience. That's it. And if you only did the things you don't feel like doing, you would have everything you wanted.

It's true. Being a champion is not a sexy life. No. Being a champion, like being an athlete in the sports world, even the greatest athletes in the world, they live a very boring life because they get up and they do groundhogs day over and over. They get up at 5 a.m. when they don't want to wake up. They eat.

Whatever, the same food every morning. They go to the gym the same way, and they just do the same repetition, win or lose, until they get to what they want. It's not sexy. It's boring. Actually, it's grueling. It's boring. It's the reason why it's a game of not quitting because you've got to be willing to do all of the things you don't want to do.

You've got to be willing to do all of the stuff that's boring and grueling on the days no one's watching, nobody cares, nobody's there to help you. It's just you against you. And that's why I'm going to go back and say if you can't haul your ass out of bed on those mornings on time when you don't feel like it, you're not going to achieve your goals.

Because you're not going to make the cold call that you need to because you're not going to feel like it. You're not going to say no to a deal that's a bad deal for you because you feel like you need it. Like you're going to get your emotions all jacked up and they're going to run you over. And so when I say, how did I build belief in myself? I did it the only way I know how.

It's in proving that I believed in myself and that I could keep my word to myself no matter how I felt. And that begins every morning when the alarm rings. It's a daily battle. Like even though I invented this thing, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, to get you out of bed, I still have to use it.

Like, I think it's a mistake. Like, every time you and I interview an expert that studies habits and they say, well, it's 21 days or it's 63 days or it's just, I'm like, baloney. That's only if you like it. Like, because there are things that have never become a habit for me, Lewis. Like, I hate unloading the dishwasher. I have to force myself to do it. I hate folding laundry. I have to force myself to do it. There are going to be things in your life that you always hate doing. Do it anyway. And get over yourself.

Because that's actually what's standing in the way of what you want. You know, it's easy to look at Lewis or me and be like, oh, well, it's so easy. Are you kidding? It's boring. You get up at 530 in the morning. You go to the gym. I got her to the studio. We had our first meeting at 740. Where's Cameron? Is Cameron still here?

Cameron. There she is, one of our senior producers right there for the Mel Robbins podcast. Cameron was there. 7.45. She'll tell you I'm just as cranky at that point. You're like, run this thing. I was there till 8.30 tonight. We'll be back up tomorrow at 5.40 in the morning. This is what it looks like. And so for me, how you believe in yourself is that if you can get out of bed enough times

days in a row. And all you need, in my opinion, is 70%. I'll even give you 60%. If you can get 51%, like let's shoot low, everybody. If you can get out of bed more days than not, when you don't feel like it, you're proving to yourself that you can rely on yourself to be bigger than the emotions in the moment. And that's what you need in life to keep going. And so it didn't come overnight.

It came over time. And there are plenty of times where you're not going to believe in yourself. And that's when I use those tools that I shared, which are saying, like, I refuse to believe that things end here. And then that's when I remind myself everything that has been really awful or good or anything has led me here, which means this awful thing is actually going to leave me there. Mm hmm.

And, you know, the other thing that I have recently started to think a lot about, I really feel like there are only two things that hold people back. And I'm not talking about the big external factors because there are very real factors that limit what's possible for you to achieve in a day. And I think it's very important to say that. Like the amount that I can get done in a 24-hour window today is

is very different than what I could get done 14 years ago when I have three kids who are home and I can't pay my bills and I have no help. And so don't be beating yourself up when you see that quote like, yeah, everybody's got the same 24 hours. No, we don't. That is a lie. But you can do a lot with the time that you have. And one of the things, though, that I think I've come to believe is that there's only two things that are actually stopping you from...

Getting the results that you want over time and what keeps people I think from really achieving what you're capable of are two things. The first one is discouragement. I think this is the single biggest obstacle. Discouraging yourself. Yeah, just pure discouragement because, you know, let's just let's just like admit to ourselves we live in this crazy amazing moment of time.

where you could never, ever, ever say with a straight face or use an excuse, I don't know how. Go to chat GTP. Go to Google. No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. Literally, go to chat GTP and say, act like the world's best life coach or business consultant. Here's the thing I want to create. Give me a 60-day plan. Tell me what to do every day for 15 minutes that will actually create that. Your jaw will hit the floor.

And we literally had this thing happen with our podcast where we were having trouble with upload speeds in terms of getting files thing. And the team's been working on it, working on it. And I finally said, will you just put our equipment in ChatGTP and ask it how to solve this? Honest to God, you guys, 30 seconds later, it spit out the answer. We've been struggling with this for a year. So here's the thing, though. Information only makes you smart. It doesn't make you do it. And so you can be holding the answer in your hand.

You can read Lewis's book, which is fantastic, and you can learn everything that you need to know in terms of the blueprint. But if you are discouraged, you won't do it because you will believe it's not going to work for you. So how do we overcome discouragement? That's a great question. I don't know. But that's the first thing. So there's two things. Discouragement...

And what do you think are some ways that can help us get out of that? Obviously, your method, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, gets you moving. Right. But even if you're moving, you could still be doubting or discouraging yourself. Yes. Well, so the thing about using 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to push through is I felt so discouraged. That's why I wasn't getting out of bed back then. Because I believed there was nothing I could do to get out of the financial mess that we were in. I believed that getting out of bed or looking for a job or...

laying off the drinking or not screaming at my husband, why would I do it? Like, it's not going to work. It's not going to matter. And if you can get, if you get yourself in that rut, it's not going to matter, then why would you do it? And so the interesting thing about that moment in my time is that I don't know that anybody could have necessarily gotten through to me because I was so convinced that

And you know how you can get so right about how stuck you are? Yeah, very righteous. Yes, yeah. It's kind of a way to stay in control, as weird as that is. And so I believe that the best way, for me anyway, was simply that countdown thing, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, move. And what happened for me is that the action started to prove

that there were little things that didn't fix the big problems, but they at least shifted a small thing in me. And again, it doesn't change overnight. It changes over time. So that's one thing. I think the other thing that's really important, honestly, and you're actually already doing it, which is pay attention to input. If you feel discouraged in your life listening to Lewis being here on a Tuesday night,

where you know he's not going to come here and be like, you all are losers, and you're never going to achieve your stuff, and this book is not for you because you're going to be broke. No, you knew you were going to get encouragement. And so seeking it out is a really important thing to do when you recognize you can't do it for yourself. And so you can catch that from other people. And you're doing that. And so I think those are two things. And then there's another exercise that I love,

that I typically do around happiness, but I think you could do this in your life right now. Take out a piece of paper. This was something that I just stumbled upon with my daughter. I'm not sure I've told you this story. - Not sure. - I don't know. Okay, we'll see. - We'll see. - We'll see. We share a lot, so I don't know. Our daughter, after college, graduated completely just depressed.

Which one? Sawyer. Okay. The one that I wrote the book with. Yeah. Okay. So she, she graduates from college completely depressed. Why was she depressed? Oh my God. Because COVID had blown up two years of college. It, you know, and when you're all disappointed because you feel like you missed out on graduation and you missed out on senior year and you missed out on this and she had put on weight and she had been drinking too much and all of a sudden the friends have scattered and she is a

home and she's going to a job in cybersecurity, which she was not excited about. And so she's just like bummed. Yeah. And so she had this breakdown. She's crying like crazy. And when she was finally done crying, we sat down and I said, here's what I said. What do you what do you think is going to make you happy? I don't know. And I'm like, OK, here's the thing, hon. I think you do. Take out a piece of paper.

And you can do this at any moment in your life. It's the greatest exercise. Draw a line down the center. I want you to now think about a moment in your life where you just felt happier. You don't even have to be like, this is the happiest moment. When were you happier? When did you feel a little bit better? And the first thing that popped out of her mouth was senior year in high school. And first thought of mine was, well, that's kind of sad because that was like four years ago. But okay. Didn't say that. Because you don't want to hit somebody when they're down. Yeah.

So I said, great. I want you to describe a day in the life. What time did you get up? What did you eat for breakfast? What did you do during the day? Who did you see? What did you do after?

And she said, I, you know, got up at 6.30. I ate breakfast. I went off to school. I was with my friends all day. You know, we then hung out because we had lacrosse practice. I was dating somebody. You know, I would party on the weekends. I was looking forward to going to college. I'm like, great. Okay, that looks like I can see why you felt better. All right, let's describe your life now. Sleep till one. I wake up hungover. I don't know what to do all day. I feel terrible. I'm out of shape.

I'm not exercised. I don't see my friends. I'm not looking forward to everything. I'm like, okay, compare. Your life provides a map to the things that actually make you feel good. You just forgot. And so if you do that exercise, what you are going to see is a roadmap for what you have done at times in your life that actually make you feel like you and make you like lift you up.

And I don't remember who said this. It might have been you. I once heard somebody say that if you ever feel stuck and you don't know what to do, the single most important project to take on is yourself. And taking on improving yourself is

Whether that's your health or whether that's learning something new or whether that's finally facing your finances or whether that's to claw back more time on the weekends and take on a project that you've been pushing aside, whether it's launching your YouTube channel or figuring out affiliate marketing or starting a podcast or getting your real estate license or going back to school. When you take on yourself as a project,

you now create a sense of direction that gives your life meaning. And that's always going to lift you up. So I think that's how you do it.

Plus taxes, fees, and economic adjustment charges.

Terms apply. For J.D. Power 2024 award information, visit JDPower.com slash awards. Can you think of a time where you were accomplishing a lot of things and outwardly had a lot of success or things looked good or you were building something and people were acknowledging for it, but you didn't feel good about you?

You mean like my 20s, my 30s, my 40s, and a lot of my 50s? Is there like a season, like a six-month or one-year season where you're like, man, it looked like everything was really great, or my business was blowing up, or this, or people were saying, you're incredible, but I didn't feel good? I think a lot of my life has felt like that. Really? Don't you guys feel like that? Even when you're successful? Yes, yes. Because if you have not worked out yourself and your relationship with yourself,

It does not matter what's happening on the outside. That's like the clothes you wear. That's what everybody sees. If you hate yourself, if you still are beating yourself up for the mistakes that you made, if you're holding that over your head like ransom for your happiness, success does not make you happy. I started too late.

Thank God I did, but I started too late in earnest looking at my relationship with myself. Really? Yeah. I think everybody, like, you know, I think that we all make the mistake and there's a lot, you know, of psychiatrists and psychologists and incredible researchers out there that talk about this. This is not my field of expertise, but I have lived it in terms of hating myself and holding past mistakes over my head and feeling like I'm a bad person. And

So many of us chase achievement and tell ourselves that if we just get a million followers, if we just have a million dollars in the bank, if we just drive the right car, if we just have the right clothes, if we're just in the right friend group, then those things on the outside somehow repair the things on the inside. Those are just the things you're doing. How you're feeling about yourself is the game. And the faster you can dedicate time and energy

to looking at who you are and what you can learn from the mistakes that you've made and how you forgive yourself for the things that you did that hurt other people and the things that you've done to yourself that hurt you so that you can step fully into the next chapter of your life feeling like you've got your arm around your own shoulder. Mm-hmm.

Like that is the greatest gift you could ever give to yourself. Yes, for real. Absolutely. I can. I also think back to your question. It's one of the reasons why I am humbled profoundly by what is happening in my career right now. But I'm very clear this is a job. My identity is not the podcast or this book. Full stop. And it wasn't until I could get good with myself

And the kind of person that I am and forgiving myself for the mistakes that I've made in the past instead of just constantly relentlessly beating myself up over regrets and like waking up every day and feel like I've done something wrong and trying to prove that it wasn't until I got to the point that I was good with myself that

that you have this very detached experience about the things that happen out there. It's great. It's a measure of like the impact that you make, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself. Wow. And I never, ever, ever even knew that it was possible to be good with yourself. That's how much I trashed myself. Wow. When did you start to like...

take that on that journey for yourself where you said, I'm good with me no matter what happens in career or numbers or money? I think that I didn't realize that I had actually achieved this breakthrough for myself until the success of this project. And I just completely felt detached from how successful this thing was. So the last few months. Yes.

And I've been working very, very, very hard to look at the stuff that went down in childhood, the things that I did that were crazy unhealthy coping mechanisms, in especially my late teens and my 20s and, you know, even into my early 30s. What were some of those? Oh, God. How long do we have? I'd say like 23. I mean, everything. Everything from the drugs to the drinking to the stealing to cheating on people to, like...

Like, I literally will bump into old boyfriends and be like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry you met me. Like, when I didn't realize I had childhood trauma and I had been the victim of this. And, you know, I had repressed all these memories. And instead, I had a form of ADHD that was not diagnosed. It was the type that makes you, like, really impulsive. And you have really low dopamine. And so, like, you literally are seeking thrill-seeking behaviors like, you know, shoplifting or, you know, cheating on nice guys. And, oh, my God, I'm really sorry. And they're like, great to see you, too. Oh, wow. Yeah.

You used to beat yourself up a lot. Daily. Every day. Oh, my God. I mean, am I the only one that would literally send a text? You're like, oh, my God, Lewis did not text back. Is Lewis mad at me? I have not heard from Lewis in a day. Is something going on with Lewis? Like, I must have done something wrong. And so I now know because I've spent enough time just like you have and like you do because you listen to Lewis, hearing from experts and going, oh, wait a minute. Hold on a second.

Why is my default thought that I've done something wrong? Why am I so hard on myself? Why am I so busy that I cannot actually sit still? Interesting. And, you know, I didn't even realize you guys how, and it's a double-edged sword because, you know, if you're going to be an entrepreneur and successful in business, you know you've got to have a drive.

You know that you're signing up for 80-hour weeks. You know that there is going to be amount of go, go, go that is part of the job and the demand of actually going after something big. That's just what you're signing up for. But what I started to realize, and I don't know if any of you have had this epiphany, but you certainly have, I've noticed, that I actually was busy as a default. And I didn't realize this until the pandemic hit, and there's nowhere to go.

And then all of a sudden you get all fidgety because you can't run to Target or you can't run to the coffee shop or you can't run to see your friends or you can't run to go over here. And I started to, and then we moved to Vermont and I'm like, oh my God, there are no, there's nowhere to go. And, you know, my skin is crawling and I...

started to realize that my resting state was go, go, go, go, go, go. That sounds exhausting. It was exhausting. I think most, and actually the research now shows, this comes from Dr. Aditi Nurikar over at Harvard's Beth Israel Deaconess. She runs their massive stress management clinic.

Her research shows that 83% of people are actually living in a state of chronic fight or flight, meaning your amygdala is going. So if you're, if you are procrastinating more than ever, if you feel on edge, if you feel more irritable, if you are struggling to focus more than ever,

The issue is that your stress response is running you. And that was me. And if I go back through my history, I had an incident happen in fourth grade where I woke up and I was, we were in a big family, like ski trip thing with a bunch of other families. And I woke up, I was sound asleep. So a moment when you're safe and resting. And I woke up to an older kid on top of me and I rolled over and I don't remember what happened next.

And then the next morning, I woke up and I had the sheets over me and my immediate, because I'm in like my 10-year-old body, I immediately sensed something's wrong. And then part of the human wiring when you're little, and I didn't know any of this stuff, you guys, until I'm like in my 40s.

That the human design is such that when you're a little kid, you don't have something, this is from Dr. Paul Conti at Stanford, who is one of the world's leading experts on trauma. I always thought trauma was like, you've been to war, you've been the victim of violent crime, like something wildly horrific had happened to you. It was a whole new thing for me to understand that trauma is any experience.

that actually is remembered in the body in an alarm state. It gets recorded in your nervous system. So this happens to me. I wake up at 10 years old. My first experience is something bad's happened, and then because you're little, you developmentally do not have something called attribution. Attribution is a human being's availability, or a human being's ability to look outside yourself and attribute what you're feeling to somebody else.

So little kids, I think this is one of the cruelest things about the human design. Little kids do not have attributions. So when your mom or dad came home, and some people have that experience where you hear a car pull up on the gravel driveway and you freeze a little. Or you get excited. Well, yeah, that's a positive one. But if you freeze a little, that's because when some people came home when you were little, you know what happened.

And so if you still do that, or if you hear a crack of a beer can open and something like somewhere just makes you tense, that is what I'm talking about. So I, of course, didn't go, that kid's the problem. I did. I did. I am. And do you know, I suppressed that memory. I don't know why. And I recalled it in my early 30s. And then I didn't know what to do with it. And I was too embarrassed to talk about it.

And then I started to learn more about this in my 40s and it suddenly made sense. Oh my God, no wonder I wake up every morning and I think I've done something wrong or something's wrong because this is what my body's been doing since I was 10 years old.

This is a stored memory. And if you grew up in a chaotic household or you grew up with parents where you didn't know what mood people are going to be in, and so you kind of wake up, this is one of the most common experiences that people have that you don't realize it's actually tied to what it was like to be a kid. So that was kind of the beginning of all this unwinding and just really going deep and going, I don't want to freaking live like this. And I could have a choice. There are things I could do to just make my body change

Settle. Right. So before you share how you did that, how you started settling it, I don't know if you guys are hearing a theme tonight, but I talked about memories and the meaning we give our memories create a belief within us that we hold on to until, and that belief influences our behaviors. And we consistently show up that way until we're able to reflect and take a step back and say, why am I doing these things? What's causing me to react this way? Why am I responding this way? Why do I tense up in these situations?

And so you started to reflect on that. Yeah. And what helped you start to heal, process, let go of, and integrate feeling emotionally safe within you again whenever you used to feel like you were doing something wrong. Right. And now you can feel more safe within you no matter what is happening around you. It's a great question. So for me...

Because you talked about memory and story and that stuff. It goes a layer deeper. Because I think, and I know you're incorporating this with memory, but for me it was important to have this epiphany moment where I'm like, oh, my God, this is about the sensations in my body. Your nervous system. Yes. Yes. Like it's about that kind of am I actually calm or does my body feel like I am a car at a stoplight and I'm revving the gas? Yeah.

And that was what it felt like to be me all the time. 24-7. 24-7. And so there's a million things you can do. I mean, and I think what's really exciting about it is, you know what's kind of sad and exciting? Sorry. Is that I lived for so long like that because I didn't know. And it didn't take a long time for my body to...

to learn a different way. - Really? - Yes. - But what was the awareness that you had and the process you used personally to start to feel more safe? - Okay, so the first awareness that you need is to go, I don't want my life to feel like this anymore. - Making a decision. - That's all you need. - Making a decision. - Yes. You need to say, I don't want my life to feel like this. And you could insert, I don't want my job to feel like this.

I don't want my body to feel like this when I wake up. I don't want my relationships to feel like this. I don't want my stress. Like you can just literally saying the way that my life is right now no longer works for me. That's all you need to do. And then I would write out what exactly is it.

And for me, it was like, I hate waking up and feeling a sense of dread. And then it was like, I hate feeling on edge all the time. And then it was like, there were just a lot of things. And so when I started to learn about the fact that a lot of this is driven by your nervous system, there are so many things you can do to program your nervous system. And what works for me, and the good news is there's not one thing that works for everybody. And what I love about having multiple things that you can do

is that there are going to be different days where different things work. And so if you just think about it like, here's how I think about it, because I like metaphors, I like visual stuff, it really helps me think about this. So I think about your nervous system, like there's electrical wires all through this building that we can't see, right? And the lights are turned on. And I think about those moments when...

my body starts to do one of these and I go on edge or I feel myself getting a little too ramped up about something. So you know, you're not an idiot, you know when you're calm and when you're present. You also know when you're super stressed out or you're starting to feel that the engine is revving.

The way that I think about it is when my fight or flight engine revving nervous system goes, the lights are blinking. They're blinking. Oh, yeah. Because you feel it. It's like... And so what does that mean? It means there's like some kink in the wire somewhere in my nervous system. Who knows if it's from the kid when I was in fourth grade or something that I don't remember that one of... Who knows where it came from? I just know that it's happening. So now it's my job to find the switch.

Because if I turn the switch off on a light that's blinking, you know how when you lower a dimmer on a blinking light, it's not so annoying anymore? All of a sudden, it's a little calm? That switch is the vagus nerve. Vagus nerve runs from your seat, through your major organs, through your vocal cord, all the way to the top of your head. This is the on-off switch for your nervous system. It's how you switch between the blinking light

to turn it down a little bit and now everything's steady. And there's a bazillion things you can do. You can hum. Like you can't have a panic attack in church because as you're singing a hymn and your vocal cords are vibrating, it's actually what they call toning the vagus nerve. Cold plunging is a way to tone the vagus nerve. Cold plunging also works because you are putting yourself in a

any setting, whether you're in the shower or the bathtub or the ice bath, where all of a sudden the lights start to blink. You get in that cold water, it's like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then as you breathe, you're hitting that dimmer switch and you're bringing it down. Meditation, another way that you can do it. There are so many, like just go to chat GTP and say, I would like...

Act like the world's best psychologist and tell me what to do twice a day to tone the vagus nerve and actually calm my nervous system. And there you'll have the answer. And then you're going to know that it's not going to work for me. I'm not going to do it because I'm discouraged.

And then you're now going to use 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

I'm going to do it. I don't know if anyone here has ever done this. I don't know if you've ever done this where...

You felt the blinking, you felt the stress, and you've tried to get someone else to stop what they're doing to cause that stress within you. Yes. It's called marriage. It's called marriage. Parenting. Work. Watch what you say, though, you know? Yeah, you mean like all the emails? Have you ever read one of those emails? Like, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip. They're like, best.

- Said, you know what I mean? Like when you do that. - Yeah, but I mean when you try to control or stop someone else from doing something that's causing you to react stressed out. - Oh yeah. - And trying to control everything in your environment except for managing yourself. - Yourself, yes.

Have you heard of something called the let them theory? Yeah. Is that something you used to do, though? Yes, of course. Well, because other people are annoying and they stress you out and they worry you. And so this is the problem. We all have a fundamental need for control, right? It makes you feel safe. I need to feel in control of like even like Lewis. I'll give you an example. You ready?

- Oh, what I do? - Give me an example. - Okay, so Lewis comes back as you guys were sharing. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. - Five minutes. - Yeah, I said, "You got five more minutes? "Are you good?" - Yeah, I'm like, "I'm great, I'm great." And so literally like 11 minutes go by. - Yeah, yeah, and she's like-- - Right, and now I can't control him. - Oh yeah, yeah. - And I'm starting to feel it. So now I'm like, "Okay, should I sit?" And I'm like, "Let him."

Let him. I'm standing backstage and I'm now starting to get like, okay, what's happening? I can't control what's happening out here. So let him do that. And let me just stand back here and take a deep breath and be so proud of my friend who is here in Boston, in the town where we raised our kids with all of you amazing people.

But how many times have you felt yourself getting stressed in the grocery store line or stressed on the Mass Pike? I mean, how irritating is that when they close the tunnel? What idiots are painting the tunnel on a money? Let them. Right. Right. So, yes. See, what happens is when other people's behavior is annoying or bothers you or stresses you out or upsets you.

it makes you feel out of control. - Yes. - Nothing makes me feel more out of control than when I need a red eye from Dunkin' Donuts and the line is really long in the morning, you know what I'm saying? And so I just, you tend to then make this mistake when other people are upsetting you of controlling what they're doing. - And that's something you did for a long time? - My whole life, I still do it. That's why I need the let them theory.

To stop myself from doing it. We all do it because we have a need to be in control and other people's behavior often makes you feel out of control. I mean, if you ever, like if I think back to some of my like relationships before I met Chris,

Like when somebody breaks up with you and then you're the loser that's trying to like control what happened, bring them back and like hang around and make yourself better looking so that they'll take you back. Like that's a form of control. Yeah. Right. Because you're trying to take away the pain by making them do something. Hmm.

And it took me a very long time. I'm clearly a slow learner about these life lessons. So, because that seems like something that was holding you back for most of your life. This idea of trying to control other people and stuff like that. Everybody is held back by that. Or control the environment or whatever it might be.

And so when was the exact moment, because I've heard you say it a bunch of times, but for people who haven't heard it, when was the exact moment, this epiphany of I'm going to let people be themselves and not try to control every situation? Well, my mother will tell you she's been telling me to do this my entire life. Sure. And she even has a pillow. She's like, I came up with the let me part. It's this pillow where she's like, pull up your big girl panties and deal with it.

You know, the joke about this whole thing is you and I both created content like stop caring about what people think. You know, the concepts have been out there forever. But I'll tell you something. The time that it hit me like a freaking sledgehammer. Because you can talk about stuff all you want. You can read concepts all you want. Like, you know how many books I've read about psoasism? My husband is a Buddhist.

I can't let anything go for God's sake. Like I understand these, I've read Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning is one of my favorite books of all time. Like that what's happening out there doesn't have to control what's happening in here, that your power is in your attitude and your response to things. They're not new ideas. I've even talked about these. I've interviewed experts on these things. When it hit me, like a ton of bricks, you know, when you're ready to

The teacher appears. I don't know who said, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And you better be careful because it's going to be really annoying who shows up. And who showed up for me, and there's such irony to this, is because this was at my, when the power of this hit me at my son's high school prom.

because I was a micromanaging freak. Have any of you ever sent anybody to a prom or had a mother who controlled you at your prom? Right? So I just was like all upset about things and like, okay, you got to bring a corsage. She doesn't want a corsage. I know better. You've never been to the prom. You need to bring a corsage. We get to the pre-photo party and we take the photos and then all of a sudden,

It starts to rain. And all these kids are like, well, we think we're going to go in the rain. I'm like, you're not going in the rain. Look at these new fancy sneakers that you got. And they're like, we're going to go to this taco. You're going to a taco bar? Your tux is going to get wet. Your sneakers are going to get wet. And my daughter was home. And here's the irony of this. You ready? When my daughter's prom happened, she was such a raging, controlling, dare I say, entitled piece of work. Mm-hmm.

that we had a knockdown argument at a hair salon in Natick. - The day of? - The day of the, oh yeah, 'cause we had this fray tan and the nails and the whole thing, and she got her hair done. I mean, it's like a thousand, I can't say, dollars. And she doesn't like the way the woman did the makeup.

I lost my mind, Lewis, screaming at her. I stormed out of the salon. Your father's going to have to drive. You better call. And I left.

Yes. Uh-huh. And her father had to go get her. Wow. Yes. And he had to pay for this stuff. Oh, my God. Because I was so angry at how much of an attitude she had. I'm like, this is a prom. It's not like, come on, you're not on the cover of Vanity Fair. Right. You're going to a public high school prom. You're paying for this stuff. So, of course, I'm, so anyway, it's a whole story. Anyway, okay, so. This is the irony. This is the irony.

So guess who the teacher is in this story? That daughter, because she's home and I'm starting to like go like, you can't go out in the sneakers and this, that and the other. My husband's standing there. My mother-in-law is there. My son is there. He's like kind of inching away from me. And my daughter reaches over and grabs me and she has like fake nails. So it like goes in the bicep, which basically I think snaps me out of like the ha and into the moment.

And she's like, Mom, you're being annoying. If they want to go outside, let them. Once they get to see it, let them. It's like this cascade of let them, let them, let them, let them, let them. And then she's like, it's their prom, not yours. Let them do what they want. And then she released the nails. And Louis, honest to God, all I said to myself was like, I don't care about this. Hmm.

And it's not like at that point I'm like, I'm going to write a book. That's not what happened. And so I literally just started to say those words. I'm at Home Depot. You ever been to Home Depot in the garden center on a nice weekend? And they got one cash register open and you got the flatbed and there's like five things in front of you and it's like, anybody got a price on these impatients? You're like, oh my God, they're right. God, I got to get to Dunkin' Donuts. I'm ready to kill somebody. Right? And so...

You feel the volcano. And I'm just like, okay, now let them. And that was how it started. That's how it started. And, you know, then we did a podcast episode about it as I started to use it. And, you know, it started to go, I just like, it became a thing. And then as the podcast episode took off, people started writing articles about it and sending in tattoos. And the last time I had seen anything with tattoos was the five second rule because I've received,

10,000 tattoos with 54321 and rockets. And so I just was like, wow. And you know, the truth is I don't like to write books. I'm dyslexic. I have ADHD. I thought, okay, well, this is like one of those little books. This is like a book, like a graduation speech book. Like, you know, the books that you read on the toilet that are like, you buy them at like Urban Outfitters or something. You know what I'm saying? Like, maybe we could do one of those.

And then we just started digging it and it was so deep and rich and the stoicism and the themes. Like when we, when I went on the, it was, what's been so incredible about this experience is that I feel like your grandparents

And all of our ancestors are part of this. Like when I sat with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s son, Martin, and his wife, Andrea, as we were talking about this on their podcast, My Legacy podcast, he literally looked at me and said, Mel, this is my father's teaching. Wow. You know, because no response doesn't mean you're giving in. Choosing peace is not surrender.

Choosing peace is a form of power and hope. Wow, that's true. And so to see this reflected back in the ways that you make it your own

whether it's the shirts that you're making or it's the let them for realtors, let them for parents, let them for entrepreneurs. Because if you're going to build a business, you've got to learn to let people not do business with you. You've got to learn to let people not understand what you're doing. You've got to learn to let your family have their opinions. And you've got to let me stay focused on the simple things you are not doing right now that you know you need to do that will actually create everything that you want.

And, you know, the fact is, and this brings me to the second thing, after, I know there's like 55 things, I'm sorry. Take away, take away. Is that I said that the two obstacles, only two that you have. One is when you're discouraged. The second is when you doubt your capability. And the only reason why I think you doubt your capability is because you're too concerned about what other people are going to think about it.

That's the biggest source of your doubt. And you don't even realize it. Because you stop when you hesitate. And the only thing you're considering is how other people are going to react or what their mood's going to be or what their expectations are. And so when you recognize, wow, I could go to chat GTP, write my business plan and give me the plan, and it can tell me day by day what to do every day this year to lead to a certain result, it is right there.

And now all I have to do is I got to let other people do what they're going to do. And then I got to let me remind myself every morning when I wake up, even when I don't feel like it, damn it, I'm going to do it. Because that's how I create the things that I want in my life. There you go. I love that. I got one final question. And I asked everyone to do this when you weren't here yet, I don't think. And the question is, what are a couple of things you're most grateful for today? Oh, well, today I'm grateful for you.

I'm grateful for you. Grateful for you. Yeah. Grateful for you. Lewis is a great friend. You know, one thing that I will tell you about, like, really good friends. Like, you would look at Lewis and I, and you would think we're competitors, right? Because we're in the same industry. Like, one of the greatest things about Lewis is he is, like, the world's greatest supporter. And the mistake that everybody makes, I learned this too late as well, and I'm so grateful that I know this now. You might be surprised to know that so many of us that have podcasts are actually really great friends. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, but it's not, of course. Not all of them. Not everyone. But so the thing that's important, though, I think it was on Jay's podcast. Was it Selena Gomez that said this? What did she say? I didn't. Well, I think that's who he said. I just, you know, I think that this is who, like, when he shared this sentiment. Because I'm like, Jay, you're right.

He said, the mistake that people make is you actually think the other people that own restaurants or who are in real estate or other entrepreneurs that you're competing against them. Actually, they should be your best friends, and here's why. Because your family has no idea what you're going through. Chris, Martha, they have no – well, Martha has a podcast, and she's also got a huge career and is kind of in an adjacent space, but even still. Mm-hmm.

Like my husband, Martha, doesn't understand the day-to-day pressures because they're not doing what we're doing. And the mistake that you make is you think you're the only one and then you think your friends and your family understand. They're never going to understand. It's the people that you think you're competing against who will actually be your greatest allies and your biggest forms of support in the business that you're building. So seek them out.

Cheer for them when you see them winning. There's a reason why you see restaurants kind of on the same blocks It's because when they put them on the same blocks, they actually all do better Yeah, because people that go to restaurants like going to other restaurants And so it's a mistake to think that if you're opening up a fitness club that somehow the yoga studio down the street is somehow competent No, no, no, no, no, no because people get tired of yoga. Yeah, and

And so if you're cheering for those guys and you show up at their grand opening and you're shouting them out on social, guess what they do? They do the same thing for you. And so please seek out the people that are doing things that you admire. Cheer for them. Seek out people and support people that are doing the similar kinds of businesses because you're going to find you have so much more in common. And people are...

more interested in helping you than you think. Yeah, and this is something that we do. I mean, for the last three months, I've been texting you every couple weeks. I'm like, you're still here, you're still here, you're crushing it here, congrats. And it's just, you do the same for me, we do this with each other. And I think I learned early on that like,

Just competing isn't fun. It's like maybe there's a little bit of thrill of like, oh, I'm beating someone, but it's not enjoyable long-term and it's not sustainable. But collaboration is the key, again, to that abundance feeling. If you want to feel abundant, if you want to feel joyful, free, collaborate, don't compete. And I think that's been a key for me as well. So if you guys haven't yet, make sure you go right now and get the Let Them Theory book.

Make sure to subscribe to our podcast. No, you know why? Because it would be the coolest thing in the world to see one of my closest friends dethrone me and take the number one spot. So please, take, buy Lewis's book. That would be the greatest thing in the world. It's going to be hard to hit number one with her up there. I mean, your book is going crazy. But it's not about being number one. It's about doing the best you can and being of service. Yes. And if it hits number one, cool. If it doesn't, that's okay, too. It's all good.

So, Pano, one day. Guys, make sure you guys get a copy of her book. Make sure if you haven't subscribed to her podcast, make sure you subscribe right now. Leave a review for the book and for the podcast. While you're at it, you can leave a review for my book and the podcast as well. And let's give it up one more time for the inspiring Mel Robbins. Yes. Yes.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as

ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

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