Dave Smith on how neocons wrecked the country
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welcome. The suck carlson show has become pretty clear that the mainstream media are dying. You can't die quickly enough, and there's a reason they're dying because they would lie.

They lied so much IT killed them. We're not doing that talk across the economy promise, bringing the most honest content, the most honest interviews we can without fear or favor. Here's the latest mean, it's a little weird for me because you're a libertarian.

And in fact, you could even wind up at the libertarian ticket at some point, if you could. But i'm a good happen, right? You you're literally libertarian.

And but for some reason we have the same instincts on almost everything. I would say there are a lot of people in conservative media who I always have felt like I had a lot in common with them. Now I don't it's not because i've gotten liberal.

I've gotten away less liberal. I see them as way more liberal. So what like what IT happened to conservative media? Not all over my million friends in IT, but like a lot of the big names, seem very liberal to me.

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's kind of the same thing that happened to libertarians. I think they're in washington, D C. Yeah, that's not where you're supposed to be, right? And so the best like the best libertarian uh, organization in the world is the mrs.

Institute and it's based in Albert and the ama. Yeah they specifically put IT there because they like want no power of blushing in dc. And then you see all of the a the you know cato and guys like that who are based out of dc, they get very corrupted.

And and you can look at IT, it's like it's the same thing we were just talking about daye calling out Chris math. He was back in the day you're having cocktail parties with the fed chairman, but you're a libertarian. You shouldn't be doing they're actually doing that.

Yeah oh yeah yeah actually doing that. And I think a lot of that, the same problem with the kind of conservatism, ink or ever theyve been, they ve been corrupted and power is seductive. I'm sure you know that from like being in dc for so many years that you are not saying like you're kind of an anomaly.

You think about all the people in washington dc and how much all of them wanted to suck up to power almost, right? Like what ninety something percent at least that's why there are there, right? And so it's it's a difficult thing.

I didn't get that for some reason for so long, I was living in the middle of, I don't not a super genius, so I didn't. I didn't realize how corrupt IT was everyone. He said I was corrupt and felt like a really nice place to me. Raison, my kids there and but when you realize how corrupt IT is, I mean.

it's horrifying. Yeah but that's also I think there's something like the um the the nature of conservatism or the conservative movement in amErica has always just been to lose there. It's like built into them like every just losers and then moves on to the next thing to lose.

I like the the old right, the Robert taft right. Um they were largely in opposition to the new deal that was they were fighting back against the yeah cr s new deal were an opposition to that. And then, you know, you cut forward h twenty years and and it's F, D, R.

Democrats are the new republicans right round. Old rain is like nobody would dare question in the new deal. And then, of course, there was a movement pushing back against the great society. yes. And now, of course, no entitlements are like no one would ever dare question medicare IT.

Like just recently I saw, uh, Donald trump, who is not a traditional conservative, but he did the most traditional conservative thing when he said, he said, when we get in there again, we are gonna fix obama care. I don't like, okay, right, right, right? So that's where we're right now, right? It's a no more repeal.

You don't even hear republicans talk about IT anymore, right? So it's always like the next round of big government increases, the next round of centralized power in dc. They will put up a little fight.

They will lose. They will then a few years later. Except this is something that is consensus amongst all of us. But but you see, we're against whatever the next thing is, you know, transition the kids are, you know student learn bailouts were against that now, you know, but y'll lose. And then eventually.

why why would you so that what is that suggest about them? They don't this is a performance. This is not sincere.

Yeah I mean, conservatives typically have played the role of being against consolidating power in dc, right? Um but that's you know that's obviously that's going against the winds, not with that. And so IT almost like IT almost seems like a professional wrestling thing where they're like they're the ones who are supposed to lose at the end of the day, they kind of say the right thing, never really mean that, you know, and then ultimately act. Yes, I I have to say I .

was disgusted by the lack of fight in a lot of professional conservatives during covered like disgusted by that, you know, banning freedom of movement, freedom of speech, bodily autonomy, like the whole thing was like. So mind blowing to me, if this actually was the totalitarian ism we've been worried about or talking, pretending we're worried about for a long time. I came and modem didn't say anything about IT, but I was totally billiard by the libertarian response, which was also kind of silent. I thought cato would be, I don't know, camped out in front of the White house for the cdc or like what .

was that well, IT shows you I mean um well because you use the word total arian and I think sometimes when you use that word, it's it's perceived as like being somewhat hyperbolic but it's really like what else could describe lock down I mean that that is terran is you had american citizens turning on their TV every morning to find out from their governor what they were allowed to do exactly.

I mean, the most you couldn't like if the question was like, can I have a funeral for my dad? No, sorry. no. We've how did you can you know, I think the most intimate details? Yes, liberties that we would all taken for granted. And so okay, to your point, right not only did conservatives uh not fight against IT, I think the majority of them cheer IT or in on with as far as the you know the point about labor tariff. There are kind of like there are these moments um and I know you experience this a lot when you are on your fuck show.

There are these moment where there's like a storm where there's something like a White hot issue, you know and IT becomes a very easy later after that passes to be on the right side of that, like everyone is on the right side of iraq. Now, you know what I mean? John mci wrote in his memoir that iraq was a mistake, so even john macy included many years later.

But the thing is, that didn't that doesn't really matter as much as if you were opposed to IT when I was happened because like in two thousand two, if you were like, hey, I I don't think he has weapons of mass destruction. You were everybody knew that well, that just means you are queer basically, you know and you get your country and your week and you're and so there's a little thing, you know, the example i'd like to use a lot because I remember you broadcasting through this, so you'll remember that well. But was when when Donald trump announced that he was going to pull out of syria and for like two weeks IT was like the cards. Remember, we're abandoning the cards, but our allies, the cards. Like, by the way.

of the Alice, yes.

if there's one thing that has been consistent in american foreign policy in my lifetime is that we always grow over the cards. But for whatever state.

I mean, yeah, I mean.

we h George h. Bush encourage them to rise up and overthrow the down who saved and they went. Now, you know, I thought of about them to get. I don't think that just a lot at all. I mean.

but why am I laughing so well, so consistent with theme?

Well, it's that we're not laughing is up of the curse. We're laughing at the hypocras y of the meeting but for like two weeks, if anyone said they wanted to you know that is supported trump lying out of IT was like, you're a bit a person. You hate the curds, by the way.

Has anyone checked in on the cards since that? Has the media ever talked about them again? Like IT was totally just used in that more. And that's just a little example.

That's not the big one, but like like our historic enemy, the right yes. And I member growing up in lawyer in the seventies hearing about the hookers and my father said, I just want to grow strong and resolute so we can fight the words you're one purpose .

and lives to get strong enough to take on these woods is when the day comes and IT will where these who thes chAllenge our freedom you must be prepared right? Is that it's so ridiculous but like, look, I remember so are you IT was either in IT might have been April or may of twenty twenty. But I remember you covering on your show and I also covered this on my podcast at the time, got you a smaller audience but you covering the the lab lake yeah I like k this is a really like plausible yeah very of well and infect IT IT seems to make a lot more sense because already there was it's not that we had like a conclusive case that you could take to court, but there were like big pieces of information that we're really narrative shattering. Well, the best the bats weren't close enough to wear the wet market.

Also wet Marks is seafood markets. Why are they selling mammals? And seat is just palling and bats. And then there was a group of chinese researchers who in december, in january of twenty twenty, wrote this paper, said, no, we think this was a lability.

And then they all disappeared. The net were like four scientists from the lab that were hospitalized in november with covered like symptoms. And you were like that, I don't know, my eyebrow is raising as years, not raising, you know.

But at the time this was, and I know you were aware of this, this was a crazy, controversial thing to say you were what somehow it's more racist to think that the chinese had like a lab than to think they were like biting that heads on for is. So but by the way, now as I say this to you now, this not controversial at all. This isn't a White hot issue.

IT was then, but it's not now. And so a lot of a lot of just what back to your original point about, like the libertarians who failed on the job. A lot of IT simply comes down to be a matter of courage.

It's just a matter of like hate when the issue that might make everyone hate you, all of the powerful people call you the worst names, which naturally human beings have a tendency to not want that. We don't want to be australites. You don't want to be called these names.

Some people just kind of have this personality trade. And this isn't like whether you're on the left or right, it's something that you have. It's something I have.

It's something already has. Yes, he's going like, I don't care. I'll say IT right now when it's going .

to get me called all really remember about to fifteen years ago was in july and I was in mine and I my kids were playing on the dark and I was like the happy this day, you know, was like perfect blueberry day, sound of laughter of children.

IT was like, just, I was like ice in such a good mood and I was looking at my kids and sort of walking along, and I stepped on a beehive and a whole storm of bees flew w up my shorts and just attacked me in my other regions. And I went in about, no exaggeration, ten seconds from being plastic and happy to being in agony on fire. And I jumped in the lake, read my cell phone.

That is the experience of these historical moments, right? All of the sun is like being stung by a swarm. Everybody's against you.

Everybody's ying exactly the same thing. You go from like plastic, happy come clear thinking to totally unable to think clearly. And on all these issues. That day, family died in custody. Russian custody is like we decide, of course, putin killed them or whatever.

And to be able to see and think clearly in that moment, like that's the key right there when you're getting swarmed, you may have come to the obvious conclusion that the real debate is not between republican and democrats, socialist and capitalist, right left. The real battles train people who are lying on purpose and people who are trying to tell you the truth. It's between good and evil.

It's between honesty and falls. Od, and we hope we are on the former side. That's why we created this network to tucker carlson network. And we invite you to subscribe to IT you go to tucker crossin dot com slash podcast entire archive. Is there a lot of behind the scenes footage of what actually happens in this born when only an iphone is running tucker carlson doc com slash podcast you will not .

regret IT who's the guy? Who is the? Who was the science editor for the new york times?

That wade.

right? I mean, that guy was like nature and and you know, like all of the biggest scientific publications was the new york times guy like that you're .

done and they call the race yeah .

yeah and it's not it's not just like oh, you lose your job or something like ah it's like we're going to smear you in the most vicious ways like all of these and worth social where we naturally respond to that.

But but how does that happen? Well, like you've watch this carefully. How I mean it's speaking and busy that is the high mind at work.

But it's it's so like perfectly and like with great discipline executed. It's like in a space of four hours, the entire machine turns on one guy and destroy them. Like how what is that? You can see what people come up with conspiracy to explain that.

right? sure. Yeah and and they are quite possibly right. I mean, I don't know exactly what the conspiracy is, is quite possibly is one but .

no dissent at all .

yeah but then my thing is just that I do think and I think this is something i've benefit from. I know this because I hear this back from my only once a lot that it's like, oh, when you were right on those issues when IT really mattered, you kind of gain credibility and I also think that like let's say there's like um I don't know, like a right wing or conservative um commentator who's telling you how you have to feel about the new storm right now. It's like we'll just tell me, how did you do on the last three storms?

You know, like like, were you were you telling dopes to get the vaccine? Were you telling everyone to be socially distanced? Or were you like on the right side of that? Where were you on ukraine? Ine, you know, were you saying that like ah you know like they can win or whatever the story is, you know what I mean? Like it's and I do watch a lot of people who go like got everything consistently wrong. It's the same way.

Is the neoconservatives right? Like even if I mean, I I hate them so much, it's hard to speak about them like with any type of sense of fairness. But how do you listen? Let's just say you got six wars wrong and you were wrong about every single one. Like, let's just say you were for the war in iraq and then you were four you know regime change in afghanistan against the taliban who did not attack us um and then you were for overthrowing adopt and then you were for overthrowing assad and then you were four backing the sauty war in yemen and like all these things and and it's just nothing but disaster, every one of them okay.

But then you're going to come out and confidently be like and i'm for this next war and let me tell you what you have to be too and you don't have like enough, just like you don't feel humiliated enough that like you couldn't come out even if you were for this, really think we should fight this war. But I can come out and say we should fight this work because the last six times I said I was nothing but a disaster. I know but the same people who are like, you see, talker, when we overthrows the domos saying democracy will sweep the region, and you see we're going to be greeted as liberated.

We won't be fighting off for twenty years and surge. Cy, you say the greatest is liberators because they love us, and then democracy will sweep the region and then iran will lose influence in the region. And then hezbollah, art being nice to israel.

And like all these grand predictions and every last one of them, oh, it'll be paid for in n oil. You remember all the things that year. Well, I mean, it's um know it's a cakewalk. It's a it's a slam dunk that he has weapons of mass structure. So every single one of these things you were wrong about, you get to now be the person advocating the next one.

But you wouldn't ever allow that kind of behavior in your children. Can't little lie stand kids lie, you catch them lying and the whole point of the exercises to get them to admit to your face. Yes, I did this.

No, I won't do IT again. That's that's an integral step, right? You have to go through that or else you don't improve as a person, you become shadier as a person.

Yeah, that's right. And I would also maybe this is me adding my libertarian bent to this, but I would also say that in the in the private sector, and I mean, not like the crony connected to government, right sector, but like true business, you also don't get away with that stuff. Of course, you can just fall over and over again.

This only happens either in the government or in, you know companies that are essentially the government but like live off no big government contracts or something like that. Um but yes, so it's uh and it's it's the major problem is that look like at least there are problems with free markets and there is made up of human beings. So there's always problems, but there's at least like a cleansing mechanism.

There's like profit and laws. And if you lose too much, you go out of business in in with the government. The worse you do, the more funding you get. But so this is the kids can't read. We need to hire our .

education but completely agree with you. And for all I pissed on libertarians and of course I was one for most of my life.

I'm going to bring you back, give me time.

No, it's it's just interesting. I think the reason I made at libertarians is because I don't see a free market in the united states course, right? And so I mean, I look at Green energy or the defense SpaceX and like there's that, that bears no resembLance to a market at all.

Well, a lot of finance, yes. But I would also point out that like there are just like with every group, just like conservatives, there are different camps with various. So just to point, like the thing said about the last five storms, if you go listen to what ron paul was saying throughout the entire coast, he was perfect.

And tom woods luu rock, well, jeff dies. Like, there's this group of laboratory ans who were great the entire time. I totally agree.

i've stop loving people. So the difference .

between they like the wrong paul, the one Polly, and libertarians, which I would consider myself to be one and say like the the cato or or groups like that, is that a uh those the cato types tend like almost have this academic discussion of what IT would be like in a free market and then talk as if that's what we're living in right now.

But that, no, I mean, I was a fellow at cato, so I remember this very well, that organization, that foundation, five one is run by an oligarch. Actually, it's run by the coke, right? So he kicked out the old head.

He brought in the new head. And you sort of wonder for your libertarian, you can't you're not you're not for government parameter. Er also suspicious of oligarch right?

Well, of course and particularly like say the same oligarch who's not only funding the cade a institute but also funding the republican party in general and the party who consistently is growing the size of government every bit as much as the democrats are. I I don't know. It's become a thing where if a republican world to ever say, say we need smaller government, or technically hail, he was talking about smaller government.

You just roll your out because IT never means anything. They'd i've been talking about this forever. There's never been one time and there have been several times in my life where the republicans have controlled congress and the the White never one's been a cut in spending.

Of course, spending always goes up. There's been some cuts in top marginal tax rates, you know not even dress the cuts, but there but yes, we will have rich people pay less taxes. There is never a cut in spending because that's a cut in the power of the federal government and they're not for that.

And so if the guy is who are funding that are also funding this libertarian institute to write policy paper for recommendations that are never gonna implemented anyway, IT does raise some eyebrows. I I would say like look to to the bigger question of. You know, libertarians in the site, like like i've heard you say before, the the U.

S. Federal government is the biggest, most powerful government in the history of the world. By far, there is not a close second. There is a government that can snap its fingers and over throw regimes anywhere in world and does IT ah regularly.

And so that is look, as the country is kind of spinning out of control and everything has just gotten more and more corrupt, that's directly related to the fact that dc is got ten more and more powerful. And this is to me, like I i've been saying this for a while. It's not my original thought.

This is something hazara hoa said back in the nineties um where he he basically said that libertarians need to learn a conservative lesson and conservatives need to learn a libertarian lesson and what he meant by that was that libertarians basically need to learn that. Okay, just because we might believe that the government ought to not dash someone over the head and locked them in a cage for doing something doesn't mean we have to celebrate IT. You don't have to celebrate to generation y.

You don't have to be on the side of that. In fact, a functioning society needs good family values. And yes, just like a fact that doesn't we don't believe that should be enforced at the point of a gun, but we that doesn't mean like you know like even if you think say like whenever you think prostitution should be legal, you could still have a feeling that it's horrible and represents a tragedy on all sides um and so that's like kind of the conservative lesson that libertarians need to learn.

I think a lot of the retirees in the wrong poll kind of school did learn that um and the lesson that I would say that conservatives or or trumpy and populous types need to learn is that if Donald's going to say drain the swamp it's like OK. But what does that mean? Like what what does that look like? How do you actually drain the swamp? And it's really actually very simple.

IT means cut government spending as long as washington, D. C. Is the most powerful organization in the history of the world and they're spending over six trillion dollars a year.

That is by definition of swan. That's why more millionaire live in the suburbs outside of washing dc than anywhere else in the world. They don't make anything except weapons. You know what I mean that are purchased by the government is .

i've you know if for you talk about this, make them there is no there's not a single active creation yeah in the entire D C, the D M, V, as they call IT.

right? Well, no. And it's it's literally not only are they not creating but there parasitic by nate, they're taking american's money. And this is what I mean. I think this is kind of the central source of why the country is spinning out of control and why were so incredibly corrupt at every level, is because there is this parasitic force in washington, dc. That's grown bigger and bigger and more.

I agree I absolutely agree with that. And I do think I saw IT changed. I remember the moment that changed in IT was the moment when the democratic party subverted the the so called business community, which was always a kind of counter baLance against this, because the idea was the government makes IT actually harder for people to conduct business.

It's divers, free markets and more against that. So the chAmber of commerce and business table are always sort of pushing back against the growth of government. Bill clinton and changed that.

And he changed that by declaiming a ceasefire between the democratic party and the rich. And he did IT during the tech boom. I'll never forget this democrat were always saying, and I thought I didn't agree with him, but I sort thought I was important for the purpose of baLance to have this.

They would say they were suspicious of people with too much money. That's too much power. Like, what about the value of labor? Is the value of capital of value of labor? They are kind of in conflict or another, and more in the side of labor, all of a sudden bilk lintons like. Now there's nothing wrong with being, you know, making a billion dollars at thirty two for creating an APP running web van or e toys or pets dot com or bs thing .

you could think totally. And IT was so smart .

he did IT for the purpose of funding the I became for Richard republican party and all the formerly republican lef suburbs around the country you know granta and mclean, Virginia, they all went left actually he was brilliant and evil but its a fact was to completely rect the country because there was no counterbaLance against power at all so once the government, you know the people with the nuclear weapons and business, the people with the largest bank accounts are aligned. That leaves everybody else like about who's defending them yeah .

and then you said something last night when we were having dinner that I thought was so interesting. I was thinking about IT after we left that you were talking about how like traditionally the rich people were in suits and ties at right here.

Uniform matters. I mean, that's why we have uniforms, right? And that's why the bus driver wears uniform in your airline, pilots have their stupid outfits and your stewardship are dressed up like they are because IT says a lot about their role in your society.

And rich people used to spend a lot of money on clothes. And the whole point of that was to say we're rich or in a separate class. And that comes with tones of advantages, but also comes with obligations. Nobody, I believe, was the thing.

And all the sit in the nineties, you notice of the richest people in amErica start dressing, you know, and like t shirts and homes and like, what's the message of that? And the message of that is we're just like you, which is another way of saying we have no obligation to anyone but ourselves. Actually, we don't owe you anything.

And IT comes out of this mindset that they do haven't. I know them, of course, well, so I know that they feel this way. That were the were the richest because we came up through this credential system that we claim as a meritocracy, and we won. We won all the prizes because we were superior.

It's so fast matter I why I don't like chess .

and why I prefer back him, and because back in, and has probably thirty or forty percent of a luck element to IT.

just like life.

just like life. Like why did I get lukie and diet? Five tons of five rules do I don't know, but I should be grateful for that.

So like i've been relatively successful in my stupid little category that's not all mind doing. Like show some be magnanimous about IT. Well, this is why I was thinking about .

because I think it's such a good point because there is something kind of counter intuitive to IT. We'd be like, oh, but if they're dressing like the people that maybe theyd feel more connected to the people, it's actually the opposite because IT is IT reminds me in a way this is what thinking about literally last night in my hotel is thinking about you making this comment and IT was reminding me of when the lockdowns first started and um there were all the celebrities would come on and be like we're all in this together and you like and in the generous you're an a mansion. You're not in the same situation as a guy.

There's a guy out there who's got three kids and makes sixty K A year and he was just deeming nonessential and he is like terrified about the future of how he's going to support his family and Allen sitting here, and her messages were on the same boat. Man, you know, like, we almost same. I know one of my servants got covering and couldn't come in today, so I only had a team of five know and you like.

So in a sense, you like what the message is. We're all in this together and that kind of superficially sounds like a nice message. It's actually the the worst message, A A much Better message be to acknowledge that i'm not in the situation that you're in at all, that for me, it's actually find .

to be during the leadership class you have I mean, i've been in my whole life, I know you have a moral obligation to admitted yes, because once you admit IT out loud, then you realized there you know massive benefits to IT, but they're also massive obligations to IT. They're shirking their duty, right? That's what they're actually doing and that .

that's actually the opposite of being nobel. That's julin disgust. yes.

And it's it's a lie. Your whole thing is based on a free. Oh, I just drive like a city. Little toyota is I H actually you're defined.

Obama goes to printing for free here and has been the ruling class her whole life yeah, and she's still lexing you about how she's a victim of a racism helli clinton. Exact same thing goes to wells ly spend her entire life in the ruling class and she's still whining about how she's discriminated against.

What are they doing and do you never see um do you have like pictures of side by side but will be like pictures of like Carters house and obama's house and totally represents something about the like corroding of our soul that you like we would allow people who call themselves public servants, which of course is ridiculous. They are not but but still they don't even have to pretend to keep up of the sad of that like bit to live in this insane like mansion yes, of what because you were president and you get to cash .

on that White neighborhood you should be required to live in if you, if you're brock obama, if you're using that car, that car. The only reason that elected IT was because of your race. You spent your entire eight years in flaming race hate in our country, and then you got a martis veneer, the Whitest zip code in the world. Not allowed, you're not allowed to do that well.

But also, I mean, I did, I did so much damage, has inflaming racial hatred. And i'll say after you know, barack obama's campaign in two thousand and eight, the first of all, I was of just leaving how you feel about the guy aside. IT was an amazing campaign.

IT was unlike anything that had ever been runs. IT, yes, I was totally brilliant. IT was is now, of course, IT wasn't what they presented IT as IT wasn't like a grass roots campaign. IT was he was approved of by the powers that he didn't just happen to as a junior senator. Get like a prime time speaking slot in two thousand four gave that speech.

He wasn't even a senator yet.

Was a state senator .

that's when I yeah walking .

down the streets moke .

a cigarette and boston on my way to dinner at the palm never forget IT. And I met him and justice to action, and they pulled over to say hi to me. I'd never heard his name.

And I cover politics for a living, right? And he gave the keynote at the end of that week. That was sunday night.

He spoke on thursday and yeah, he was not a us. center. That was that was the campaign that was great. He was .

absolutely was clear. Oracle people, family is. But listen his the speeches that he gave and much of the message.

First of actually, there is probably a lot of things that I would have agreed with him, that he was running on. I agreed with a lot of things George w. Bush ran on in the year two s the black.

I get past the race stuff.

I loved that well, especially because that was his message that was missing. Let's get past the race even. And there was a broader, more unifying thing.

I mean, I remember because he was such a powerful, you know, like public speaker. I mean, you never really said anything, but would still be beautiful. Yes, remember that has a, uh, accept in speech at two thousand eight at the dnc, we had this whole line.

He was like a, just like, I love this country and so to you and so does john mcafee. Men and women who have fought for this country have been republicans and democrats and independence, but they fought together and died together, not defending a red amErica or a blue america, the united states of them. And and then it's like, I mean, you can really say anything there, but you know but I was beautifully .

possible for was great and great .

and what he also was uh, very critical of the George w budget administration excesses. And i'm going to end the war in iraq. I'm going to reinstitute habis corpus. We're going to end torture. We're there are a lot I didn't do any of that.

Um I mean, I guess he had the world to eventually and then reinvent ed the country because ice fighters he was arming invaded the country is but but then I think essentially what happened and IT was around obama's reelection campaign, this where things really went off the rails in this country was that he got in there and continue to expand and all the worst of the bush policies of, and so they almost had nothing to run on. And so they decided to put that to a culture war instead. And this is this was a decision.

And again, I don't know exactly what the conspiracy is, but this decision was made from the top down that I think IT was a response to obama's failures. IT was a response to these movements like the tea party and occupy wall street, which we were getting a little bit too close, a little bit too close to the target. And all i'm sure you've looked to this before, but where there's these nexus charts and you can short out like um how many times all the woke terms are used. Transgenic m and it's all like right around two thousand twelve. It's all sudden like you know, uh, a systemic racism goes from being mentioned like this many times about history to like shooting like the new york times.

And it's a very famous graph and I ve used at many times and trying to explain this. But that's exactly right. Like fight amongst yourselves. I think IT was the finance IT was the hang from the financial cost.

Well, I was a huge part of IT for sure and also that obama's um you know like so in the year, like from two thousand and seven to two thousand and ten, um the media network in amErica shrunk by like forty percent yeah like people look like forty percent of american wealth was lost um and you know you can imagine, especially now like having kids know the time I didn't have kids and I I was Young like whatever you know, bad economy and that sucks but you can appreciate now like oh what that would be like if you just lost forty percent of your network and you got little kids like how destabilize that is an obama s solution to this rate.

The obama recovery was, uh, okay. IT was record high government spending and record low interest rates. This this was the solution.

This is that we're going to save the economy. We going to bring interest rates down to zero. And so we're going to bring government spending hard than it's ever been before at that time. And so so you can say on paper, there's a little bit of recovery here.

But what really happens in that environment know it's like all the politically connected people in washington, dc, they make more money and the speculators have a field day because now everybody in wall streets making more money because you have to invest now, right? Because you're losing money if if you just save. And so this this ultimately is what built.

Then they throw the culture war in there, like you said, fight amongst yourselves. And the result of that was doing ald trump. The result of all of that was the condition .

for trump zero interest rates that had a greater, I think, negative effect in the country in any world. We have ever, for one thing at just asset Prices ballooned. But I mean this is fake. Everyone knows what happens over time um with free money, the money becomes worthless and so there's a rush to assets and now you can buy house, right?

That's right. And then and then the boom is always followed by the bus. And so you put here you have all of this malinvestment because like the way that works, and this is this is where australia .

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But it's not a result of austrian economics or libertinism. It's a result of abandoning all. Agree, right? So it's but look, the basic thing is that like interest rates are a Price, there are a Price just like anything else.

It's the Price of money of Price of borrowing money. And so just like every other Price, there's information given in these Prices. So if if steel becomes very, very cheap, that gives information to a business man that like, hey, we're producing a lot of steel very easily.

Now if you wanted to do a project that requires a lot of steel, now is the time to do IT because we're producing steel. Now that works when you have real Prices because others a big production of steel. So you can be.

But if if the government just came in and said we have Price controls and we insist that the Price of steel is very, very cheap, was going. And as people are going to start building projects with steel and then realized were at a steel president because IT wasn't a real signal, can you make interest rates zero for a decade? It's a signal for people to say borrow money when they wouldn't have otherwise borrow you like maybe you couldn't borrow if rates were eight or nine percent, but at zero, this is a good time to borrow this money. But again, it's a fake signal. We're borrowing all this money.

Maybe I because I got all kinds of advice from i'm not sophisticated all with money, but all kinds of advice bar money is free and I never did yes, not one dollar.

It's a really bad idea.

Um I I feel like the amount of debt that people Carry is the untold story in the nine states. yes. And I don't know why we're like in favor of the credit ard companies or people are getting rich from the is just bad.

Having a lot of dead is bad. I don't know why that's like if you say that, but it's considered super radical. But like I don't why is that radical?

But yeah, I think about the idea all of these policies designed to get people to gamble their life savings.

like why would people are not caring that when I made money in not that long ago, when I was finally could pay off my, the first thing idea was pay off my markets. That's the first thing idea. And my coome, who is really much more than I am, is made a tony money.

He said, that's crazy. You have to pay. I feel what I was, but like you lose the the tax shield and I was like eighteen grand I had to pay eighteen thousand dollars year for the privilege of not being in debt, right? To a bank what yeah .

and that the system is like artificially designed to be that way. You know what I mean that it's like these are the tax laws that will .

encourage people and also you're you're penalizing me for not being in that like that on these law.

But I think about just think about what the income taxes they penalize you for working and crime to work. Punishment is a fee. The the more productive you are, the more punishment.

So let me ask you this question an of economic why why the disparity between um the tax on labor and the tax on capital well because that the rules .

that the government made IT so well, let me say right, because I think you're totally write about this right, that it's like I i've heard you talk about this before. So like if the capital gains taxes fifteen percent, but then someone working pays thirty percent. So like what are you saying we would rather people be good.

But so here's the .

next level to that. This is all I think that you're missing in next. I think you're completely right in your like your your critique that but OK.

So if we word, let's say to fix that that disparity, there's basically two ways we could do that. One would be to raise capital gains taxes at thirty percent. okay. So the result of that would be that I guess we would disincentivize certain types of investment. Maybe the government, let's say, IT works out perfectly.

And these we we are able you know like the people on wall street don't have an army of tax lawyers and accountants who can get them out of this stuff is they always end up doing um so then D C gets more money. So then the corrupt most powerful government in the world gets a little bit more money. They will then leverage that to borrow three times as much.

And just how IT will go? IT will go to politically connected cronies, right little bit. However, let's say the other option to that, we could lower individual taxes to fifteen percent and now give every working uh family in this country a huge rays.

a huge right. So that's i'm saying you're .

right about the discrepancy, the air, it's totally corrupt, but it's like .

what's the solution? The solution is look, if you tied them to get and said, you know they're gonna the tax on capital always be the same as the tax on labor. Then the average person and which includes me, I don't have any investment. I just work on my salary rates. So like most people, um the average person would benefit from the lobbying power of wall street.

right right?

So so there's always give me the same but like all of a sudden have an army of bank lobby's and private equity lobbies keeping my income taxes low.

Yes, looks in fury. I would love that idea is if the the answer there is to just like know it's unbelievable to me that particularly like people like um you know like bernie Sanders types will say that they care so much about working people and they want to do whatever they can to help these working people and yet the biggest bill for working people is their federal income taxes and and IT and I mean the irs.

I mean, I know stories from good friends and they are ruthless. I mean, they go back twenty years and ruin people and this isn't just like it's like people kind of have this idea that there's like economic issues over here and social issues over here as if they're different, but they're really not. I mean, you go back twenty years on somebody and say, you know, a guy is making thirty grand a year and they go back and maybe it's only just like a few dollars a year that he goes, but they go back twenty years on you and you three grand a year and so now you were sixty thousand dollars.

You know what I mean? This is what leads to divorces. And people put pistol in their mouth. Yeah, you know, kids grow up without their dad around. I mean, it's like these things are interconnected and you see that just over the last few years um with the Price inflation, how bad is spent? I mean, like this is ruins people.

So why isn't that a new story? I don't understand if everybody I mean and I will say, you know because of my age and income are a little cut off, but I try not to be cut off and people I talk to the all complaint about grusha or Prices yeah like a lot and they are shocking but I never hear anybody say that yeah well.

I mean, I certainly talk about IT a lot. I think that there's um it's not it's it's not in anybody's interest, I guess like it's not in in any partisan interest to really talk about that because both parties are totally complicit.

Yeah so you no matter who you know people because we live in this weird like two p body system, everybody becomes partisans, especially in an election year and they're all just trying to kind to get their guy over and no one's really you know I mean, there are trump supporters who like to talk about the inflation under obama. I really want to talk about IT too much, because IT all started with the money that was being in printed in two thousand and twenty. That final trump was champion the whole time actually.

And and and smiling Thomas macy for for daring to say, hey, we should have a vote on this before we spend more money than we've ever spent, when we're broker than we've ever spent and he's and trump, of course, bragging that IT was the the biggest bill, you know, can sit so trump, because it's the biggest because what other people spending bills minds the biggest spending bill. You know, I like a look, i've not try to you there are trump is like the most entertaining uh, character and he's hated by all of the right people and a lot of his instincts are correct. And he was also framed for treason by his own intelligence agencies.

And so there's a lot of of Donald trump that I can sympathy with him and relate to his supporters. But the truth is that IT was such a disaster to lock down the economy and to say we're just going to print our way out of this was such a disaster. agree. And he totally got rolled by all the people around him and just did not have the wisdom or the courage to stand up to them. And he kept fouche on that task for through all of twenty twenty I mean he just kept so many people who hated his guts around him um and it's really .

IT IT was a tragedy nicky hai, my pump O. My pants, I know what I mean.

all of them. You know, mike pants is the guy he was in his sixties. And if he were to go, this is the guy who he was going to leave us as president of the united states. Mike pence, there's something .

there's something wrong with him yeah there's a lot wrong.

You can feel that I really appreciate you as political ring .

no IT wasn't personal. I mean, I feel sorry for p he's not comfortable with himself at all um and that's survive the strong i've known him for over twenty thousand twenty five years. I know since you got to washington and he's got some talent and I don't think key's evil or anything, but there is something really damaged and I always felt that he was put in there. He couldn't be the first VP to be in this position, but he was put in there by permanent dc to keep an eye. Trump, yeah.

obviously yeah. But that's always how IT works, right? Like that's the same thing that happened with regan and your jw push being you put in the guy, of course we're gonna .

jill for mean this is like this is the older story there is so trump is coming to libertarian convention yeah so let me .

ask at the outset you .

you're involved in libertarian politics and actual pot to party politics. Um would you ever be on the ticket?

You know so um just for people who don't know, it's kind of like inside baseball. But so my there was kind of a civil.

It's more inside baseball is too broad.

It's more like in big ball. Yes, yes, that is actually a really good thing. But in this very irrelevant corner where I have a sway um but so there was basically like a kind of civil war within the libertarian party over the last few years.

And IT was about a lot of the stuff that you were talking about at the beginning like uh basically there was like, you know, as you know, because you covered IT, there was what was called the wrong paul revolution. yeah. And that's what I was.

I was one of the Young people in one paw revolution that totally changed the way I look at the world. I became obsessed with all of this stuff. And so there were a bunch of us, and a lot of us had hoped that round.

Paul was kind of gonna. Yes, Carry the mental and continue this this wrong. Paul energy, not, i'm not saying anything against ri thing, is one of the best senator, probably best senator.

He was great during kova grilling fouche in all of that stuff. But for whatever reason there there's several IT didn't work out that way. Donald, drunk, came in and stall the republican party and stall I mean, he wanted anyway. So when that happened um there are a lot of us who are like kind of a disappointed about round paul and then the we had run paul running in the public lan party but then a lot of us started looking to the libertarian party like oh, they were the third party candidate and they ran gary Jones and bill well we were very disappointed with that campaign particularly with bill well, who is just horrible.

sad.

defeated guy and and also just told he was like a racial lobby is he is like, what are you doing a total a third party and putting that I and then during twenty twenty the people who are writing the liberian party completely failed and didn't oppose the lockdowns and and then started like virtue signalling during the black labs matter riots about how we must be anti racist and I was horrible so basically then there was this uh group called the mass caucus um that I joined I was LED by this guide name Michael hi and Angela cardell who ultimately is she's currently the chair of the party and we basically went and took over the whole party we for in the name of wrong polian like if there's going to be a liberal talian party it's going to be represented by liberal talians and so anyway, cutting to so once that happened.

IT was kind of my group who took over and they they wanted me to run for president on the librarian ticket. And I was considering IT for a while. Ultimately, just wasn't the right time for me.

I got two little kids. I got a lot going on in my career. It's like I just wasn't the right time for me.

But so now to what you said, Angella mccarroll LED this off to her great credit that she's got Donald trump's ing in speaking at the libertarian national convention. IT looks like R, F. cage.

When you're when aware this is at the end of the month is may twenty three, twenty six. I believe in washington, in washing dc. That was a decision made by the old guard.

We would not have heard our convention in washington. N D C, you know where that is? N D C ah it's um like at some a look. N dc um but anyway I mean R F K just chAllenged and all trying to debate him there which I don't think it's onna happen but would be very interesting if IT did happen and so IT is at at least to me a represents the labor talian party who is is this third party trying to engage in relevance of of some sort and trying to at least look, obviously, we're not in a position. We're not going to win the White house or even win any senate seats or anything like that.

But I do think the liberian party could effectively be used to put pressure, particularly on the republican yes, to be Better and not run like awful neocons and run Better candidates um I certainly prefer the kind of amErica first strain of republicans to the neoconservative strain and and I think right now there is well, I mean, there's kind of been a civil war in the right half of amErica since Donald trump came on to the scene but I don't even know if you'd call IT a civil work as Donald trumps res once so dominant. You know it's not like the republicans were split between jb bush and don ald trump er or something like no like IT was ninety five to five percent but particularly and I know you've talked about this a lot since the the war in israel or I should say the war in gaza or I don't even know if I should say the war, the attack of gaza, whatever you call you can call one side doesn't have a military but whatever you call that um since that you've seen this kind of divide grow uh where I think largely neo conservatism had been rejected by the by the voters, republican voters. But when israel came up, it's a little bit different. I don't know exactly.

I M your conservatism like chicken pox, like you think you defeated. And then .

when your defenses are down, IT comes back at .

shingles. Don't dorman is always there. And but when he comes back in its second interview, when IT manifest again, IT is disabling and that's what we're watching. Like I if there's one thing I wanted to help do is get rid of that world to you, but IT seems stronger than ever.

Well, I think you've have done a lot.

I mean, I really, really, I mean, it's like everybody in the republican party is completely on board with the idea that war, non essential war, make amErica Better or something that so .

not it's what what's so wild to me about IT is just after the twenty years of terrorists that I ve just been such a complete disaster that amErica would still be entering these conflicts that are very clearly wars of choice. There was no, I mean, I know they can make an argument like they were making the argument that putin, if he takes ukraine, is gonna take poll and and then is gonna IT, which is nothing he's ever said. There is not one thing buttons ever said that you could point to. In fact, when you interviewed him and he said, if polling attack us, that's the only scenario I could got.

The largest country in the world is the biggest land mass on planet earth. It's incredibly complex, run as twenty percent muslim. They have all these show of semi autonomous ones. He wants more land. I don't think he wants more land.

No, he's always saying it's been very good and it's such as that he is set IT but like almost everyone who was being honest has said IT at the top levels of the american government as well as a nata is his issue was ukrainian entry in to nato yeah was always this issue. And we kept pushing that and kept pushing that and that's what got him to react. And even the head of nato himself, jolson burg, whatever, said that vladimir putin said that if you just signed A A deal puit in writing that ukraine won't join nato, I won't invade and later refused. And so he invaded.

But is there a single news story even now that doesn't describe, reflexively describe, almost like it's like a block text in the in the computer program? The unprovoked invasion of ukraine, right?

They always have to say that .

there's never been a more provoked invasion. I am I on purpose. They pushed russia to .

vacate the let's say we had um like a fairly pro american government in mexico that and russia wanted to get them to do an economic deal with them. And then we were trying to convince them not to do that economic deal, but to do an economic deal with us. And ultimately, we convince them that they're going to be an economic partnership with us.

And so then russia came in and over through the democratically elected government and installed the pro russian government. And then that LED to a civil war where fifteen thousand people died. And like the pro american, you know what I mean? Like, would you go so unprompted? yeah.

And and russia said, we're going to get get mexico to join our defensive.

We're going to. That had been floated up for years. And in fact, in the two thousand and eight, we had formally announced that that russia had formally announce that mexico would be joining their military lines. Then we went IT. I'm sorry for people that he was a totally organic uprising made on revolution of Victoria.

Newland happened to be in the dle of the handing out sandwiches that don't like that you know like john mccain and they were going there a lot i'm like, assure IT was sorry back ngos that were funded IT but but whatever that is totally organic movement you know um and so yeah no IT was a series of provocations, very unnecessary ones and not just like not just ones that like libertarian dubs like me or something like that were against but that what George kennan, uh the cold warrior, right the founder of the containment strategy, what he said, which is a great piece with him and Thomas freeman in the new york times, and I think was one hundred ninety nine, and he laid out right there when we first started the first round of native expansion. And he said the people advocating this expansion are going to keep advocating that until there's a russian response. And then when there's that response, it'll say, see, this is why we were right to to expand nato.

H obama even made noises that suggested he understood what you just said.

yes. Well, he refused to send weapons in. I mean, he was, no, he was there when the government, when yankovich was over to me, but he won't send the then trump ultimately did.

And I think, no, I think my you like that was the big scandal about ukraine gate, right? Was that Donald m kind of did this, you know, kind of like a very trumpy and kind of gray area thing or he's like, you know, I really like you to investigate the button. Maybe you don't get these weapons if you don't investigate the biden.

Now you the reason why that was so ridiculous to impeach him over was because it's totally legitimate to want to investigate what the biden were doing there, the but very corrupt involvement in ukraine. But that being said, what no one ever talked about in the story was that trump capped, of course, didn't get the body of investigation and gave them the weapons. And like that, never.

That was all the other reason why the impeachment was so ridiculous because there's no print. Could proc o when you don't get anything for anything, you know, I like you could argue IT was an attempted could COO, you know, I mean, but never gone anything, but he sent the weapons. And and I do think part of this, and this was the really, you know, effective, the way that the intelligence agency is really won, was that because a lot of people would look at IT like, okay, so the the russia date was an attempted deep state code.

And essentially IT was, I mean, a Andrew, a cab, admitted on sixty minutes that they debated at the justice department invoking the twenty fifth amendment. Then they ultimately settled on a special prosecutor, you know, I mean, like they were trying to overthrow the guy, but so on the service, you can say, or IT failed. IT failed.

But you know, in another sense, Donald trump explicitly ran in two thousand and sixteen on don with russia. Yes, like, let's work with russia. Let's work together to kill the terrorists.

We all don't like terrorists who cares about overthrowing sad that's not in our national interest like we know who cares about. So let's be friends with russia. Let's get along with them.

And and then when you're being called the russian spy every day in on on the news and you know then when you went to help sinking and said, you know, i'd believe put in, you know, I don't I don't think he interfered in the two thousand sixteen elections. By the way, they're still never been a thread of evidence presented that he did. They've got like one company that they claim had russian I P address because no one can fake an I P address.

It's like the most ridiculous climate. And who was once at a party with putin or something like that? They they have nothing. And so trumper said, yeah, I agree with him and they were luxe. You don't trust you're intelligent. You know everyone was freaking out so much that I got to a point where he couldn't have made a deal with russia because if he had, that would have just been proof right. Like, imagine in that environment when trump russia collusion was being said all day long, if the trump had had made some deal with russia, like, see proof he's a russian puppet and so Donald trump, I think, went out of his way to prove what a russian property wasn't was like, here's how much i'm not a russian puppy. I send weapons .

in the ukraine and that happened on a bunch of different issues. unfortunate. But the problem I would say this point is like the desire to go to war with russia has been pretty much the animating thought in our foreign policy um establishment for over twenty years.

So now we actually have a hot war with russia. We are conducting a war against russia using our proxy. Ukraine totally destroyed ukraine in the process.

We're losing that war. So ukraine's not gonna win that I I do not see how ukrainean rates impossible. Down junior, here guys are .

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So what happens when that becomes really obvious, that all we've achieved is destroyed this country and killed a million of its Young man? Like how does the state department and the atlantic council, the aspirin n institute and joe carboro in the home sort of blob? I can only responded that.

I mean, i'm sure I mean, I think basically it's it's over and I don't think anyone even I mean this latest round of funding as just it's an election here and violence trying to kick the can to not let this fall right now. You know what I mean? Be be totally obvious.

So it's easier to steal the money.

When is out of the country? Well that's for sure. That's for sure.

No idea where all this money has been going, but we know ukraine is a totally trustworthy government, you know no corruption there um but I I think look, i'm sure they will attempt to spend IT in some way where if linski still controls like the western portion of ukraine we'll be like he didn't lose the whole country and putin would have been in poland if we hadn't thought this, of course it'll be completely ridiculous. We could have avoided this war by just, by just same. We're not gonna admit ukraine in tonnato.

And putting that in writing, we could have avoided this war is not, according to me, according to the head of nato, we could have avoided this war by doing that. And these, whatever the number is, and who knows, you never know, in the fog of war. I mean, it's not until they really test the excess mortality rate. No, that's what it's clearly in hundreds of thousand. I think they've got fifty year old fighting for at this point .

so that tells their force conscripting men were down .

sometimes yes that means a lot that means all your boys are dead sensually for and the ones who couldn't manage to fly um and so yeah it's it's a total disaster. It's the like incredibly dark irony of IT is that all the people like cheering on ukraine have just as as john mr. Shama said in two thousand and fourteen, which aged very well unfortunately said we've were leading ukrainy down the primrose path.

That's what we did you actually sharing them on but you're leaving them to their demise. And um I didn't need to happen. It's terrible and i'm not absorb putting a responsibility. He was certainly put back into a corner but there are had to be another answer on the best you know it's just horrible um but I know at the end of IT, it'll be another disaster and the hawks and dc will try to spin IT as best they can and then they'll all get promoted and have Better jobs. That seems to be the .

track record. IT does feel though that we're coming to the end of something. It's like this was the last effort to exert a certain form of american power abroad.

IT failed. Does that make them desperate and a crazy? I feel like a loss in ukraine increases the chances we use tactical nixes against russia.

for example. Well, I mean, I hope i'm wrong. Well, the thing is that decreases the chances that russia uses them.

So there's that. I mean, no, there is. Joe biden always pretended that the war, ukraine was a must win like that. We couldn't know out me right when the warm you get, but that's all just an act doesn't it's not i'm just saying however you feel about IT, it's not actually vital to us survival whether we whether russia controls ukraine or not. That's that's absurd.

But black me, your putin really believe that was a must win and that actually is a much more reasonable case that you can't lose a war on your boarder. That's a proxy war. You know, even in the cold war w we never had, you know, we have thought in vietnam, but that's not on russia's border order.

You know what I mean like that, this is a whole different game. And so the to me, the real fear from the very beginning was not that vlad me or putin n might win. The real fear was that, well, what if the west winds like, what if anatomie putin is humiliated right on his border and feels that his death is imminent? Because that's that's the time when nux might fly and so in that sense, you know it's quite possibly the Better outcome.

I mean, no nuclear war is always the Better outcome. Um I do think and I I ve got to say I think you're a huge part of this. I think that if you look at like six two thousand two when the war drums were beating for iraq, there was just nothing like what we have today. I mean like the the biggest shows and cable news that they they were all for IT. I for I was .

for until I went to iraq in twenty two thousand and three immediately apologized. I would say in my defence.

yeah, what is that? that? What about the trip? Major change your mind.

Oh, I was so shocked by the whole thing. So the invasion was in march of o three. And I mean, I was hosting a chat show, debate show, cross fire and actually trusty.

I was at launched with my father, had lunch with my dad every week at the same table in this place in this man's carbon washing. And we're sitting the table. I'll never forget this in the fall of two thousand, three. And he goes, when you going to a rock and I was like, I don't I don't know. I don't think, I mean, I don't plan to go to a rock.

I've got a daily show I have to because oh, so you're a journalist and there's a war but you're not going to cover the war and I was like, no, i've got you know like four kids and the daily job he's like, oh, so but do you just kind of a sit this one out and he's like changed me too. It's true story. He was like, so unsuppressed that I wasn't going to see IT and um like OK, you're right.

I should go. So I went I took leave of my show and went on for a couple weeks with some friends who were contractors, defense contractors of all military guys. But my call, Kelly mccain, and a bunch of a bill for us, all these really impressive a contractors.

And we went to iraq. And the first, the first thing that happens, we get to create, we are going to fly in. And the insurgency shut down A D, H, L.

Plane coming into by Operate on the back dad airport. And so we couldn't fly in. I was like, so we've occupied the country now.

I went in december, early december. So that was no nine months, and we had at least unequipped Victory over sedan, right? He was hiding into, in fact, he was capturing to create the day I got there.

So we just won and we can control the airport, right? So then we we drive in from kua immediately got like IT was at a control people shooting IT was IT was chaos IT was full chaos. And then we stayed outside the Green zone for um in the justice's house that they had rented.

And one night i'm sitting on the roof on a satphone trying to talk to my wife back and wash, taking our dog to the vet and someone start shooting at me and then always people are shooting in our house. There's a gun battle at the house. What um do you have a gun when .

you're over? absolutely.

I was fired for IT. Actually amazingly um you you were told to Carry a gun IT was so out of control and I was there that journalists and ng o workers or I don't know what we will certainly me you had to go get a certification from the state, but I still have my badge ts hang in my office right there that um you qualified with this was in eight forty seven.

I actually had an eight forty seven already not fully automatic but might rain I knew how to Operate but yeah you're required to Carry IT that's how out of control IT was so and then a buddy mine got killed there. A journalist was killed there. I called my Kelly was a really great guy and um the bottom line was we're not good at colonel ism because we don't have the self confidence or not sure of bringing Christian anny and civilization.

There's no way clearly to find goal for this and we're bad at IT and the armed forces is not designed to do that. And the effect was super obviously was chaos. And the one thing I cannot deal what and I hate and I think all people hate instinctive ally, is chaos.

People can have all repression. They live in repressive regimes, you know, all three history they have, they can't handle chaos. And we brought chaos to iraq.

And I just saw, this is the opposite of what a great power should be doing, is disgusting. And I saw really, really clearly that IT would never get Better. And and I ve had one more thing to this, which i've never forgotten.

We went into the Green zone one night and had dinner with some generals. I did, and this, and I always sort of like my dad was the military, sort of respect to the military. I didn't realize how corrupt and disgusting and feminist the officer class was and decide just repulsive people actually, at the flag office level.

So we're sitting at dinner and this general is telling me about I I saw something really touching today. I saw we had this female officer, and he was killed, her legs blown off by an ID, and her husband was there. And he know theyve got three kids back in Virginia, but he held her hand as he died.

If this ultimate sacrifice for american, I was like, what you're like celebrating this, a girl, I killed a mother. I thought we fought wars to protect mothers and children. First, if you're sending girls to fight your wars, your disgusting because you're violating the most basic agreement there is, which is the man protects and in exchange for that, the willingness to sacrifice his life, he gets to be revered as amended.

That the table and all the benefits of beggen, there are many if you're sending and if you're sending women to protect, if if there's a home invasion in your house, three in the morning, near like uni, I D with the last one, go go defend. I hope that SHE leaves you and you will, by the way. Yes, so if you're sending women to defend you, it's not a civilization .

worth defending. That's how I feel with mother .

to legs born off.

You think that's .

a good thing and I lost control the table. This guy instead, almost exactly where I think it's disgusting. And it's not because I don't think women should be defending our country, because I don't love women, because I do love women. They're above that.

We we should be defending our women. I don't know how supporting women getting their legs. exactly.

And this guy accused me of being like a woman hater. So here i've got ta wipe and three dollars who I reveal who I would die for without thinking. And i'm like, hated him.

I don't have ever hated a man more than I hated this general. I wish I remember his name um in the P I O, the fairly well known for spokesman for the provision of authority dancin or was sitting at the table. He was very offended by my behavior and but I was outraged and outraged sort of never is just exploded on your side, but it's never left.

And I I came back to washington and I was like, and I didn't interview with the new work times. I said, I cannot believe I supported something. This is totally evil, what we're doing.

And i've never moved from that position. I lost all these friends for saying that whatever want to talk myself, continue talk myself. But yes, you ask well.

because I just i've heard you say several times that your trip over there, you know, like turn you against the war, but I would never, never heard you really like specifically .

to celebrating the death of mother yeah and then getting mad at me because I have not going to celebrate the death of her mother would have about her children and her husband like this is disgusting and it's it's it's so dark and horrible that we dressed up IT with ideology.

The thing that's almost like to make IT possible. Well, the thing that's almost more dark and horrible than just that is when you add on the fact that this was a small group of people who wanted this war going back into the nineties, and that they used nine eleven as the excuse to, you know what I mean, be like, oh yeah, now we can go get our bonus war. Oh, look at this right now. We've got a blank check from the american people, which they did, that you tell us, you say the word terrorist and point, and we will support you .

bombing the problem. And I knew I was bullshit even at the time. And I went over to the White house for something to see at bush or chini um or somebody. I think I was seeing training whatever .

I was on the White house. And M. Y, C, I was there.

And I was like, maybe the fall of two thousand two, and they've been talking about the invade or rocks up. But I didn't take IT seriously because I thought was so crazy, was a non second IT was like I was just not connected in any sense to nine eleven, obviously and guys like what you know paid liars like Steve haze or something write these books like kita did IT and I work with Steve hayes and I always embarrassed by he's dumb, so he didn't know.

But I had felt I was like, this whole thing was like, so much so I never thought we were going to vade a rock. I never thought that. And I show up, and i'm whatever, having a cigaret on the lawn outside, all all the sticks are all the stand up because TV cameras are.

And I run into mike Allen, old friend of mine from washing post reporter, now runs xe OS and really nice person and has just like clarity of vision that I don't have because he using caught the weeds on shit. And I said, we're not really going on to fake a goes. Of course we are.

And I said, how how do you know that he was? Well, because it's all the machines is moving in that direction. Like if it's gonna en, I say that can really happening.

Was all of this going to happen? He wasn't endorsing ing IT. yeah. He got to see that.

Like if everyone start talking about something like they will convince themselves that is true and IT will happen. We should remember that yeah, don't overthink things. If something really obvious is happening.

it's happening yeah sometimes it's yeah sometimes it's almost too hard to .

accept electors, people like you and does some extent me have a lot of trouble seeing that because we're like actually no, no, the obvious is real .

yeah it's almost like if you you like you remove yourself like if you trans send the moment it's a yet so obvious exactly of course this is happening and there's, you know, what's unbeliever to me that really like what's woken me up about the warfare state is, you know like how much it's all based on lies and that you see that don't like a few and I you call me an intellect. I'm really not an intellect you know a comedian who likes to read no.

you think about .

sure sure but I just mean that i'm not an expert in any of this stuff. But you know, I just know enough to know that the supposed experts are completely full ship. Like all all I have to know is these four, like narrative shattering final.

And so like like just a few of them. Like, look, you could read and anyone can go read this. You would find its called a clean break, new strategy for securing the realm IT was a letter written by Richard perl and David worms or and a few other new remember, they came very powerful in the George bush.

This was written in nineteen ninety six and IT was not written to bill clinton. IT was not written to bob doll, who was running for president that year. IT was written to Benjamin n. Ao, who had just become the prime minister of israel.

And the clean break, the strategy was a break from this whole peace process nonsense that eats arabia and them had had agreed to and basically IT was like, well look, IT was the beginning line down of what the next yahoo doctrine was ultimately to be which is culminated and know wild's success as you know um and so uh basically the idea was like, we'll look forget all of this like this peace process where you focus on land exchanges and whose land belongs to who that's all kind of lame. And so what really you should do is reach out to the broader ara world, kind of make arrangements with them so you don't have to go through this this peace process. And that drives with overthrowing sadam, who saying, and like, that's our first step here.

And then there are several other steps, but it's outline why we want sadam who saying, overthrowing. And so then this was four israel's interests we want of this, this war in one thousand hundred and ninety six. Now, by the way, there's other things i'm not like saying, like israel is one hundred percent pulling the strings of the american government. I think a big part of the reason why the war ended up happening was also because George w. Bush had a personal beef against damon, tried to have his father, uh, killed.

But these neo conservatives then, who get into go as soon as nine, eleven and in the project for a new american century, when they talked about how they wanted to fight wars on multiple fronts, they explicitly said they probably wouldn't be able to do that unless there was like a new, another Pearl harbor type event, where there there be enough popular support too. Now, the nine eleven truth is the alex Jones guys, for a while, they would hang on that as evidence that, you know, whatever Jenny did, nine eleven or something like that was something elements within our government. I think they're overplaying their hands there. I don't actually think that, but it's certainly as evidence that they recognized what I .

was once that what do you think that now I should say what you really know, which is we don't really know that much about nine eleven because so many documents remain classified twenty three years later. And why would that be? There's no excuse for that.

They should every one of them should be released this afternoon and they won't be. So we only speculate to some exempt. Like what should we be suspicious of the official explanation for non seven?

I think you should always be suspicious of of any government explanation for anything. I mean that that should always your starting point, like i'm not saying you should jump to a conclusion about what happened. But and I think this is by the way, this is my world view that has served me very well over the like I kind of like I basically my podcast kind of took off and a big part, well, big part that is like joe rogo and stuff like that.

But i've just kind of been consistently right on the biggest issues, have a good track record. yes. Like I was in real time, like calling out how trump was not a russian agent.

And in real time, I was saying the hundred by and laptop was real. And in real time I was against lockdowns from the very beginning, and I was again. And it's all because I just I Operate from a world view of recognizing the government as essentially a criminal gang, basically the mafia who won. And now they just rule, you know what I mean and like.

So having taken out the real and much less banana fia.

and that's part of the reason why they don't like them off because competing gang, you're not allowed to be the were the and so when you look at things through that from yes, they're all a bunch of liars and their the power brokers and so yeah I don't trust anything they say. I try to just go off what I know um so we don't know exactly what happened on nine eleven.

We do know at this point that there was pretty high level sauty involvement and that the sauty have that the government knew that and had no interest in puni shing those people and in fact still wanted to continue doing business with them. We do know that we were comfortable enough fighting on the same side as alka in libya, in syria and in yemen. Um so I didn't seem like alka fighting aleta wasn't really the motivating force. And like I said, we we know that these this group of neocons who hijack the federal government wanted these wars, and after nine eleven, used that opportunity to get them use that opportunity. But anyway, that the point I was raining about not being an expert but being able to shadow this narrative.

it's like it's to do just to be sure, do you think it's possible that people within the the U. S. Government were aware this was going to happen before?

absolutely. That's yeah I mean, you know, I I wouldn't put that past them. It's kind of listen, these are people who are and and I think this is one of the things that people have been waking up to a lot more recently and this has had to some wild conspiracies some of which are not true, some of which might be true um but people i've been waking up more and more to recognizing like who are these people you know what I mean like these people who have like real power in our government like who are these people I mean, you know you take someone like Hillary clinton. Um so it's like, okay, so your husband is a rapist.

I mean he's been accused of rate by multiple women, clearly a sexual predator you know I mean a man who even just the stuff we know confirm this was a man who at when he was a married president, was like, fucking a twenty year old intern in the White house like a sexual predator of, so, you know, I mean, um I OK your best friend. Her husband also is a sexual predator who sending naked pictures to underage girls, like, hey, that's weird. Many people do you know who are married to a sexual predation, whose best friends also married to a sexual predator.

You know, i'm not even good. I like, is no yes, i'm not drawing any more people who are these people and these are people who are like, know, pokemon growth is real. They are doing really weird stuff there. Jeffrey epstein, n was real. There was a like pedophile ring that a lot of most powerful people were connected to, at least knew about and didn't feel like blowing the wheel on IT.

Um these are people who are comfortable making decisions where babies will die, you know like mass slaughter will happen and they can sleep in tonight and like i'm not saying like a situation where either our babies are going to die or their babies are gona die and there is a horrible decision but I have to make this a decision where like, no, we're choosing this to happen and they're kind of OK with that and you kind of wake up to like so when you say like is IT possible that they'd kill americans or be complicated in that? Like of course, of course, that's possible. I don't have enough evidence to like, prove that that's the case, but I can prove that they wanted these wars.

And then when the opportunity to get them came, they lived through their flocking teeth in order to sell the wars. Look, general Wesley Clark, he said, as i'm sure you've seen as uh, democracy now interview, where he said that he saw the plans in late two thousand, one that IT wasn't just that we were going into a rock, but that we were also gonna have regime change in syria and several other countries. But then when they go to start the regime change in syria, two thousand and thirteen or whatever, when they started in two thousand and twelve, but then they go, we have to overthrow our side because, you know, he's killing all of his own people like, no, no, no, no, no, you wanted to overthrow side over A A decade ago.

Don't give me this bullshit that this is some new plan now. So so I do know that they will lie through their th to the american people like this. I know for certain that they will lie through their teeth to the american people to get enough public support for mass slaughter campaigns because they want those campaigns for completely different reasons. And on again, like I said before, this isn't speculation.

They wrote this in their own words, one of the reasons they wanted to remake the middle east in this way is because they thought I was in israel's interest and that to me is like just totally unacceptable as an american that you're first of you're lying to the people of this country and you're doing something without foreign country is interest in mind. That's just like so appalling that I think people should be like publicly hung for. But after a trial after after a trial.

I mean, it's not amErica first.

I would say that it's kind of hard.

It's hard like.

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Right now you can get zero percent interest betide two hundred and sixty dollars in savings that so we are changing tires bell tired c store bell tired outcome for details, restrictions, supply. What's interesting is that so many people who talk about amErica first or whatever, they're fully and bored of this. They attack anyone who's not.

I know thorough, bizarre experiences other day, and maybe you can should later when IT means, because I don't fully understand that. But I was doing rogan podcast at your urging. I so thank you for that. Had a great time.

I love the pocket.

Yeah, was super, super fun. But I was very long IT was like three hours long. So and I can't stop talking on right? Another thing, and I whatever you know, and at one point I just burned out for like fifteen seconds, something i've thought about recently, which is the use of the nuclear bombs until they have been used in August of nineteen forty five against hero shama. In the nag sai complex topic, a lot of it's not publicly well known.

Okay, but just the bottom line fact that we dropped particularly obama okasaki, which was the Christian capital of japan by the way, that bomb was dropped on the church and killed you know three quarters of Christians in the city um which bothers me as a Christian but leaving even that aside, IT killed civilians. IT wasn't dripped on a military base. IT was killed, killed civilians and like I get why people did IT or maybe I don't get IT, but I think eight years later we can say not something to brag about in cinerary civilians.

I don't care what the context is. That's evil. That's all. Basically I said, holy shit, did I get attacked from the right and I thought, and I don't even follow the attacks on me ever, but I keep getting text from people I can believe said that people made for.

And I thought of all the dumb, cruel, untrue things I have said over thirty years of just talking in public, a lot of which I regret. And I hope i've apologize for every bad thing i've said, but i've said a lot of really things are impossible to defend that what they attack me on yeah what is that? Well.

and just the fact, like even as you're saying, like I get if you want to attack you something like, hey, you supported the world like like you I really got this wrong and I was, how is one of like, twisted society?

I think.

I mean, but guys, all of people who got all of these wars wrong don't receive as much outrage as you for saying after the war was one. And would like if you know anything about star general against the ready, negotiate a surrender. We didn't need to do this. And but also is just no bit.

I didn't even get into the details of the thing.

the space then .

exactly. I wish just the principle of using nuclear weapons, civilian population. You could construct in your mind a scenario where you could justify IT, I guess, but it's still sort of, in the cold lake day, hard to defend in generating civilians, by the way. In scenario, commercial bombs is added or IT is bad. Why would that make people on the right so mad?

What is that? So this is my kind of theory on IT is that if you you're kind of notice um world war two long time ago at this point yeah generates this in order you know you said the thing I love when you said that about how you could tell there's an infection because you touch IT. Yes, people were coal.

Some things infected there, right? yes. And I could sit here all day long and talk about how we should have the world one and we should.

We shot the thought. We will generate no controversy. I could say this all day long and go through .

how viga Wilson was .

completely wrong, volant body twitter tomorrow at that. Saying this, I could talk about how vietnam was a complete disaster, or also lied into that war, and how many people died in at korea, iraq, all the world war two is the one that is.

But so weird about that is clearly the most important. And we talked about the most important thing in your life is marriage in your children. yes. So if I said to you, dave smith, I think you have a shady marriage, you would be like you actually have a nice marriage that wouldn't like wouldn't be mad about that you I don't think you really know because you're not hiding anything.

right? So like, so here's well, here's what IT is, right? And like I want to be very clear, just when I say this and if you're like trying to read between the lies here, i'm not saying that the holidays didn't happen or something like that I did happen.

and. vote. But look, world war two is the origin story of the american empire.

That's when we really became the world empire. And it's the justification for the entire empire. It's why every single neocon, every single hawk, goes back to world war two.

Anytime there's a war because that was used to justify every other war, we stopped hitler. Okay, we'd all be speaking german if IT wasn't for the american military. So how dare you question? The next thing is why stomach saying was had malo savitch was hat learn putin at t they're all heller.

I can tell you how many people i've heard, uh, and i've debated some of these people who defending israel's, uh, attack on gaza by going well, we have lot of civilian ons of world war two, you know so just like that as if how are the oc anything comparable but the thing is that so when you talk about world or two, you're only allowed to have the official narrative on IT and hear IT that we all know what IT is, right? Who are you navel chamblin? You mean you don't want to go to war, you want to a peas, as that's the only listen history that you're allowed to learn is that this is doesn't work.

Presumably we should have started the war earlier, I guess, is the story. But every, by the way, you can never learn the lesson of history that sometimes, like preemptive wars don't work. Sometimes, you know, like ruthless power doesn't work.

Maybe sometimes a peace man would be Better than that. You know, it's like there's only one, you know. So that's the same.

By the way, the same thing would put that everybody, if you didn't support the world, I know you've got called this, I watched you, you got called this. Um you were never chAmbering for not wanting to back ukraine immediately in the war, right? It's the only lesson in history.

Now you can't look at world war d two and say, hey, maybe dansie was the lesson. Maybe, maybe war guarantees were the lesson. And i'm not even saying they are not. Maybe not. But objectively speaking, if we want to be honest about world war two, world war two is the worst thing that ever happened in the history of the world.

Yes, the worst thing that ever happened.

more people killed. The holy s happened in the middle of IT. Tens of millions of people died in european. A conflict, oodle conflict on all sides .

destroyed the greatest content.

yes. Now, the right, exactly. Now, okay, if you want, you know, they say, winners of war, right? The history and man, did the notes and imperial japan make IT really easy? They were so evil, they were like, they were like caricatures of, and they really were. Now, it's a little more complicated than that, because stolen army wasn't like high five ving, everybody on the way, and to be raped.

every woman in germany.

and is a lot of any same person. If you look back at world war two and you recognize the worst thing that ever happened, you would try to say, how could we have avoided this? What could we have done to not make this happen? The lesson should be, like all my god, we imposed for sigh on the germans and insistent on humility them internationally.

And look at the backlash of this. And then you effort. This is all this. A lot of IT comes down to entering world, world one. And world, world two is a real extension of that, right? But it's like the only lesson allowed to take away as this.

But I really liked the way you put them on rogan and IT was just kind of a quick aside but like it's just so evil on its face that I know human beings are amazing at doing mental generation tics to justify anything. I've been doing a lot of debates on the topic of israel, and i've been watching this first hand. It's like you could watch uh video OS every day on twitter of babies you know like sufficing to death under building under rubble and like someone will justify that someone will say, well, actually we need to do that because whatever all of us must be destroyed.

Why exactly? Like why is that absolutely necessary? You're telling me israel, the fortuity of the world can't just not drop the ball again. Me like there's not some other answer other than this and of course amErica must fund IT for reasons um but it's like no actually that is just evil and and the honest on you to exhaust every single other option before doing and it's just interesting .

it's like i've done a lot of evil things in my life and I really regretted, I think, all of capable if you've never committed genocide or anything but I mean i've been points y two or deceptive and you know and i'm ashamed of IT so i'm not judging even Harry treatment for this but it's like why can't why is that so offensive? And the other question I haven't maybe you get inserted to this.

I don't know that i've read a lot about where where you are an expert, but like the this worship of churchill, this is very odd. There's a lot about church. I think that was impressive.

That guy, fluid writer, had a kind of style that I like use tobacco, which I love. I think there's a lot about church, right? Cool for sure.

But here are the facts, like he sold his country on a war using the idea that we must defend the territorial integrity of poland. There are other reasons that was the main reason, right? Okay, maybe that's a reason. Then four years later, he hands poland to the soviet.

And after a bloodbath.

yes, this country that we went to war on behalf of, i'm handing IT to a worst master, a more tilt. Arian matter at least is bad.

yeah. I mean, the only other one who, or one of the only other two who rival? No, I guess you could say, if hit the red one the war, could he have been killed? More people than that, I guess we'll never know. But still .

up there OK. So that's a huge problem.

a huge problem.

But clearly, you don't care about poland if you just handed to .

still didn't or something.

There's like there's a massive disconnect. Is that the first fact? The second fact is he was rejected by his own voters right after the war, so they actually weren't still impressed by his leadership.

And the third fact is that war destroyed britain and that country is a depressing huck right now. I go there a lot. Unfortunately, I don't want to go there. It's most depressing place I can imagine.

It's totally defeated in some deep spiritual sense and um it's embarrassing to go there so you destroy your country on behalf of poland and the new hand at the stolen. And like I don't those are the bottom line facts about actually a lot of the things to say about him, but those are the salient points. How could anybody think that's good?

Well, you know, in poppy canons, no peppy cannons. Book a, uh, churchill heller n the unnecessary war, the unnecessary war in quotes because that's not happy you can and saying that it's a church hell. Quote that churchill after the war said IT was the most avoidable, unnecessary war.

Afterward, he took britain from being the most powerful nation in the world, being totally defeated. They lost that war as much as anybody else. But look at IT now.

Yes, it's disgusting. But there so many, there so many like ripple effects of this two, because they also the whole situation with israel palestine. This is also a result of the british empire being defeated, right, and being driven out. And so there's so much a to this.

but why defended? That's the look, i'm not even judging churchill. I made, made decisions. I ve made so many bad decisions in my life. I'm not even judging. I'm just saying eighty years later, when we can see clearly the aftermath, how could you possibly defend that, right? And why would you want to?

And also, I just know like there's a reason, I mean, there's lots of why amErica was so successful as a country, but part of the reason really was the brilliance of our founding fathers and the system that they created. I mean, a huge part of IT. And there is like, you know, it's like when they George washington's farewell address where he warns about entangling alliance, yes, there was something really profound that they saw there.

And this this idea, this this is a real problem with, like, it's like, why would we even want ukraine and nato? Why do we want to make war guarantees for countries that we have neither the resources nor the political will to actually defend? In the case of a war, you look, I mean like first of were broke, thirty four trillion dollars in debt. We we can afford our own wars, let alone everybody else is we're literally it's so cartoonish throwing money to the, you know it's like if you were like if I was given my sister money and my my cousins money and all of them, but i'm putting you on a credit card, you know what I mean like just I don't have the money but i'm such a great time helping my whole family. It's like, no, you're not in a position there.

Are not even yes.

that's a Better analogy that is a Better analogical for ukraine than my sister to be onest. yes. Um and so like it's it's just totally absurd. But then also at the same time, I look wars horrible. There's always some type of conflict going on the world and it's awful.

But like are the question is like would you be willing or would you be willing to send your kids to go fight and die over between you know to determine whether you know the dombes reason is ruled by kf or moscow. Like what is that important enough to you? Because because to me is a very easy answer. Just no. I would not be.

but would be worth killing a million in ukrainians. Yeah.

right? yes. But I i'll put A G in my bio and support my politicians printing money to to send over them, or I should say, printing money to then buy from weapons companies weapons to then send over to them a mix of weapons and cash or whatever. But yeah, I mean, like.

so to me, would you mind though not referred them as weapons companies but defense manufacturer?

I'm sorry. Yes, that's right. The defense department, defense man, ever the intelligence community, that's my favorite on the intellect community. They're all just like gardening with each other and stuff.

you know so you describe yourself as a comment who likes to read yeah, I love let me ask you about about comedy so what went and had dinner with rogan last month and was not my world that had no idea that Austin, texas had become the world capital of comedy .

which he made IT the .

he you described him as john y, the modern john y. One hundred percent. How does that work?

This system? Now it's like, well, I mean, rogan, so he was doing the pocket in L. A.

For many years. I first met him. He was living out in L.

A. And he left, I think, during the lock down. Flash ria, no, in californians, you know, very well as fAllen apart. So one of the great tragedies IT really, yeah, it's awful.

And so if he decided to take IT down to Austin, where they had kind of like opened up and I was flourishing, and Austin is it's like it's one of the last like great liberal cities in this country, know which is and like I know a lot of people on the right who kind of have this attitude of like we'll screw them, they voted in these policies all that. But I just think that is wrong. That is the wrong attitude to have you need liberal cities and to have a healthy country, you kind of need that make IT as much as you need beautiful country.

Liberal cities are all that we have, of course.

functioning liberal city that, I mean, yes, yeah, you need them to not be hell holds, which many of them have turned into. But so rogan is just started because there was something about, you know, just like the stars are lining, you know, in a very similar way to I heard you talk about, I think you're talking to me about um how look there's something to the fact that say you get fired from fox news and IT happens to be at this point where elon moscot, now that everything and everyone's there and you're protected, they are they're not going to buy. And you know, when billow Riley got fired from fox news that there was nothing .

like that was you .

go to irrelevance. Rogan happened to kind of like come up as this internet world was exploding. And he's just such an interesting guy and such a genuine guy that is part cast just huck off. And he became kind of like in this situation where he anybody who kind of comes on or have you come on and you do well, you know, it's just like the biggest opportunity.

And he's such a genuinely like, generous person that I think he loves, that I think that his favorite thing of all of IT about owning the comedy club, the podcast, like everything he does, I see IT in him. What he really loves, what really makes him happy, is that he gets to kind of bring all of his guys with him. And I know a lot of friends who joe has changed their lives, you know, like he's been, it's the john y cars and thing.

I remember red Jerry sign failed hearing him, I don't know him, but hearing him describe doing carson, oh yeah. And he said he was he said he was an experience like having kids where you go in one person and come out another person. You know what I mean, what which is really is the exchange, particularly that first kid, because you literally like, it's like you and your life go to a hospital as a couple and then you leave that hospital as like you focused on your wife .

and you come out obsessed with her.

the baby yeah and then your wife like hobby in the background kind of but anyway but but it's this amazing you know it's like um you it's like here on drugs basically like you're high when you first come out with a new baby, you can't believe IT and you also you don't know what you're doing with the first one.

You know you you figure IT out anyway, he said carston was like that like you go in a nobody and then you come out and you're a somebody and it's kind of like that with rogan. Like it's just and and it's there's all these similar dynamics like hl kago, you know like hill go like two hours and fifteen minutes with some people and it'll go like three and a half hours. Sometimes if you really likes the conversation and you never know as you know, when you're in there, you have no idea how long no or whatever. But it's um and I like my experience with him as he heard me on A A mutual friend of ours, our first podcast so I like also horia because he so far is like and also just a great person and an insane person but one of the best people i've ever known um and so I was on his podcast rogan heard IT and guys I think this guy is awesome. I wants to have a on and it's just just like that like he loved what I was saying so he was like, oh, I want to make this guy like successful it's just like .

amazing and and what happened your life?

Well, I started making money.

So that was really IT was that simple IT?

I mean, IT was like, IT wasn't exactly just that. But immediately the like, I was already doing my podcast. And then immediately, as soon as the first one with rogan was out, my numbers like shot up, like all the sun.

I had a big audience. I went from having a tiny little audience, like having a big audience. And then, you know, i've done a lot of times, every time you do, at your number, shoot up, your number shoot up. And so like that's just unbelievable and you know one of things about rogan is um and I I guess say and I really mean this, I think you have this quality too and I kind of knew this about you like i've watched you for many years at this point. I I watch you I mean a little bit when you are on crossfire, but I watched your your show on emson B C.

A lot and then I always watch one that might be it's not sure fox, that's not true at all, the fox, but you might be right about I had said on um for whatever reason, I would kind of just to like pissed me off for most of the time. But also getting off on the time of time, you see was a very different thing back to today. I mean, you just can't even IT was so much smarter and more thoughtful.

There was still a lot of propaganda. Ua, there was still a lot of shit. I think you've gotten Better over the years, but as a network, they ve got so much worse. I mean, like, but morning joe used to be like like you and pat you can and. Think that kind of and I mean it's become that IT like every single host has the same opinions as the last that occasionally theyll guy like what's his name i'm blanking on his his name who just got count because he was propelled stand ext, right? So occasionally you'll have one guy who has a different opinion and then h he's out pretty quick.

My favorite part, me, sees all the black people on there have exactly the same opinions. It's the point of diversity. If everyone went to printing and is a neo liberal, well.

there's nothing.

there's nothing more. If I get some rappers on M. S. M. C, they would never .

be allowed. But there's something about like being ideologically possessed that's very unpleasant. You know what I mean, like and there's something one of the things that was great about your show on fox news is that, like you would, on many key issues, have a completely different opinion than everybody else.

Is fox new? And to be kind of crazy to watch the whole news day? Not that I watch the whole news day, but I knew what their guys take. Everybody is like, yeah, we got to go attack um you know aside because he just gas people. And then like you would like come on at eight p. And by the way, I remember because I was doing on the show with S E cup at the time, I worked for CNN very briefly, has like a contributor um and I remember having this was the first week after the the gas attack you guess now this was poison .

gas gets his own people but now this .

was before the O P C W whistle le blowers and come out and so I don't like have any like evidence I could feel didn't have well, I mean, you just look at that. You go okay, so so you're telling me that this is we're in two thousand and eighteen thousand, two thousand thousand, two thousand eighteen. Um assad has been fighting a civil war since two thousand and twelve, uh, fighting for his survival, fighting to not go out like good. Duffy like to not get .

satisified .

Donald thump anounced that we're pulling out. He announced that you won. You going to live. You're not gonna be satisfied to death by a mother, right? OK. And then assad decides, a week a half later, i'm gna do the one thing that would turn international opinion around to keep me at risk of being satisfied that he is just a great way on the face of IT.

Like, no, I don't think so and like the honest is on but anyway but everyone else that fox me is the whole day would be saying that then you'd have something different to say yeah there's something incredibly boring about someone you just tell me don't even tell me the name, but it's an M, N, B, C. Host, someone who hosts to show you could pick the name in your head and i'll tell you their opinion everything. Climate change is an extension al crises. And we have to love, you know, racism, where we have to confront .

systemic crisis and we have to, you have versac services. I D love.

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly right. I don't think .

you that it's right and it's no just so boring, so boring anyway.

where I can I just also say sole destroying, like you were saying earlier, I thought was so right on about repeating lies is such an offensive against you. Like, where's yourself, respect? Have you know, dignity? Like are you just like an animal who can be you know hit with a shock collar and forced to perform tricks like.

don't know and there's something do there's something it's like a universal law where you kind of like the way I think Jordan Peterson said IT, like you get to choose your suffering. You want to choose no suffering. You to choose your suffering.

And this is true across everything like we you could sit down and have a fat piece of cheese cake or you could jump on the trade mail, the cheesecake feels awesome yeah, the tread mail fucking sucks you know I me but you're pay in a Price. You're just kind of choose and but not saying you should never sit back can have cheese cake like sometimes you got to do that. But it's like you're choosing you're suffering like i'm and there's this choice where i'm going to choose to suffer up front now so that I have some benefit later.

And it's always kind of that dynamics. And when you lied yourselves like, okay, you using this kind of short term know this lie will have whatever positive of things this person might believe. I'm a little bit cooler than I really am or whatever, but there's a long there's never not a cost. You can never get away from that .

without paging some type. so.

And it's interesting in all of the people with self perspective are gone. They're y've been perdon. But then there's also okay.

So part of that Price, too, this is what I was getting at which the thing that U N rog. Have in common is that so many of those holes, and I don't know all of them, i've done a lot of shows that fox news meet a lot of people over there. And I did a lot of shows that CNN when I was working there.

And so I met a lot of those guys. I ve never I was one time in the M S N B C studios and just met a few of the people there. But they're like so many of them are totally funny. But there's just not I mean, I i've had things where like i've gone to grab peers with people after like a show IT fox news, like after doing Kennedy or doing because there's something like that. And at one time there was a Green berry.

I won't name him, but he he was a Green berry who served a couple tours in afghanistan and he was on when we were on the show, he was talking about, you know, how supporting the surge I think I can remember this years ago, I think he was trumps for surge and was that let me go out for beers afterward and he just he was like, listen, is no army over there that we've been building up? There is nothing you'll fold in a day and he goes, let me tell you, any would tell me about, like, you know, who goes do we would we would give them, you know, like some machine guns. We go out on a mission, come back.

They use them to rob everybody in the village. There is no afghan n army that we're building up. The taliban run right through.

Like, oh, why didn't you just tell everybody that you know what I mean? Like, why did you totally lie when we were on T V? And it's just there's a lot of people to do that. And you can smell that. You can smell that on them though, like even if you don't know that over time, people kind of know, people kind of know, like all these guys and there is something having watch you for a long time and now having met you um and this is joe rogan to you are exactly the same person off camera that you are camera and there's no no but there might be something you'd say off camera that you wouldn't say on camera but there's nothing but there's nothing you're saying on camera that you .

don't believe I like .

I would never do and so that's like I .

think that is you don't have to say everything .

you think you cannot lie exactly and you never .

say everything you think I don't think you should actually because I have a lot of dumb opinions to or they're just rooted in meanness or irritation or mocking people's appearances, which I have a weakness .

for what I do that no get point i'm no intention of being. But there is something that I think is part of um what I love so much about joe and I think part of what why he has blown up and even so successful is that because people ask me all the time be like, what's joe rogan like you know? And I will you already know already, you already know what he's like and you know this because you went .

in because I love that works, love. I'm thrilled by his success. And yes, the money too, not that interested money.

But I understand that like unless something is a real business, IT won't continue, right? And so I love how successful he's been because IT means it's just inspiration. everyone.

Yes, yes, right.

If you're an honest person, you can actually make a good living being an honest person.

How great is that? Yeah no, that's right. And that that is the part and I don't like i'm not the biggest found, but that is the stuff where iron round was really corrective.

The idea that like, no, like, kind of there is this connection between like a, which he would call television ist, which I don't think is the right word for, but like, but there is something between like, like, success and that humans are weird psychological creatures. Sometimes you can have the desire and not succeed to not outshine somebody else, know. And but actually you're doing a much Better thing if you, like, succeed, if you're great at something and then you're like an inspiration to others to be.

Rogan gets rich because he's brave and honest. How is that bad? yes. I mean, you see all these other people getting rich because they're craven and dishonest, and that's very demoralizing actually.

Well and also, I mean, there's so there's so many things to be down about in our our country, particularly right now, like our country is not in a very good place. And like you know, i'm like I got a wife and two little kids and I put put on a very strong face for them, like in front of them. I never like worried about anything no matter what that is and .

don't buy gold in for in your do that .

secret me he sees the bars but the point is that yet but there but that you know the truth is like between me and you and millions of people on the internet like i'm terrified about the future our very, very concerned about IT and there is a lot of like look, I mean obviously like we're in um that were in thirty four trillion dollars of debt. We can never stop fighting these wars. We've turned world depending on completely against us.

We have the worst um political and social and racial divides of my lifetime yes um the culture is more insane any time in my lifetime. I mean the fact that we're debating over whether five year old boys can transition to be grow, the fact that that's even a real thing and it's not a joke that wouldn't work because everyone goes that's too absurd. You can be funny, you know any like I mean, that's just like a sign in itself, but there is also something else going on and it's much bigger than me.

And I don't understand IT, I don't pretend to understand IT, but we are living through some type of major paradigm shift and where lives are being exposed quicker and people are being exposed more than ever and honesty and integrity are being rewarded in certain ways. And that's like I kind of to have to going on to that because there's so much to be you know, to feel to spare over, but there's something really positive about that. Couldn't agree, propaganda is not working the same way that do you find.

I just I have this problem this I ask everyone, I have been with this question, which is, do you find in the midst of all of this sadness and chaos, decline, rapid decline, that your personal relationships are deeper and more fulfilling?

Ah yeah totally I mean for me oh yeah I mean there's no question about IT for me. I mean I like I have little kids. I have my oldest is five, so I ve just in the last few years now started like having kids. So yes and and I have great friends. And um through this weird internet world where we are, i've kind of cultivated like a really great audience of a lot of really cool people um and yeah I think that there's you know so you think you're .

relating to people in a deeper way that you did say five or six ten years ago.

I think one hundred percent yes. It's also it's been been a big period for me kind of growing up. You know, I had a very like prolog data lessons kind of I was a stand up comedian, yes, of living a degenerate life for many years.

And then I settle down. I got married and had kids. So that's just aside from the craziness of the world.

And ever you go .

through that .

living in A A natural fortress s in that protects you for everything else.

exactly. Cause it's well, it's and it's just you know it's it's whatever year you know this is the thing that was kind of I know you sent me when I treated something about this but we're like when you don't have god, whatever next highest in line becomes in fact your god and there is something about um I do not have god or family and my own family you know I family members so I love but I know my own family and my whole life I kind of like I was like a nineties kid I I grow up I was born in one thousand hundred and eighty three.

I grew in the nineties um none of us nobody I know was religious yeah nobody and we did not have you know like all of the traditions that many previous generations grew up with, whether like god, country, shiver here, these things you wear this uncomfortable outfit here because that was expected of you around other people when you go to church, you know you strap on these was like we just group in blue jeans and sneakers and the point of life was kind of like to get through school to go play. You know what I mean when you are when I was a teenager, IT was like to like smoke pot or, you know, try to get laid or something. What I mean like you was just all just kind of like revolved around what's fun and IT wasn't until I got married and when we had my my first kid and I found god also at the same time that i've been living a totally different life where my life is kind of centered around this purpose, that there's meaning to IT and it's not really about me and whether I am having fun, like I still like to have fun sometimes, but it's like what that's really not that important.

Like what's really important is that, like i'm being a great husband to my wife. I'm being a great father of my kids. And ironically, some degree you just find much deeper, much deep happiness. You not like we are .

time of this off camera. I really wish this had been on camera because I was so interesting when you were saying, but you didn't grow up in a conventional to parent .

households right now. My parents got divorce three.

That's Young. yeah. So you group a single parent household, but you seem to have kind of figured out the formula as so well. And I said, well, how did you know that? How did you well.

I mean, it's it's a mix of a few things. My mother was a really great mother, so I only had one parent, but I did have a really good parent and he did. And still a lot of you know like good values in may.

And I don't mean if that kind of contradicts what I just said before. You didn't still good values in me yeah know we didn't have kind of like you know got anything that um and IT was something that was just instinctive ally in me. I when I first had kids that I just wanted to give them that. And the other major fact there is that my wife is just like the best person i've ever met, and he was I got very lucky again and just met a really great place. And that is, uh, there is nothing Better than being in a great marriage and I would imagine i've never experienced but nothing .

worse than I I think it's like burning to death yeah the people I know who i've known.

people like that we are really crazy .

check and they think straight because they're an agony all the time. And but it's it's just interesting. I think maybe i'm very distressed by the number of kids growing up in single parent, how I grew up in a single and I was a kid.

So i'm i'm not judging anybody yeah yeah but it's in retrospect. I think well, maybe if you grew up that way, you didn't I did. You don't take things for granted and you're you're more intentional in the way you structure your own family because you said to me or fair like .

I wanted this yeah and I also just have the attitude that like, well, I think that and I blame the baby bombers for almost all of our problems. I and I I don't obviously when you speak in about a group that begging painting with a broad rush, our exceptions to this role. And I love my mother very much and she's a good person. Um as a generation they just ruined everything and they're totally selfish yes um completely jeff days who I love this guys so um but he said he gave a speech about IT and he was going through the things of like all of the slogans of the baby boomers and have self serving they all work like he was like don't trust anyone over thirty until they got into the thirties and then I was like and like you watch IT all the weight that through a like covet it's like we ve got to do everything we can ject IT yet we were generation yes I went for don't just .

anyone over .

thirty to be being like screw your childhood I don't want to get this keep your hands off my medicare by the way you know like all everything is and but one of the major things that they changed about the culture was like Normalizing casual divorce and as if that should just kind of be an option like i'm just not feeling anymore so like we can get divorce and like, there is no sense of like, no, no, no, no, no like, look, i'm there are except there are cases where there the years of spouse or something like that but generally speaking, really like you took an oath before god and everyone you love and then brought children into this world.

That is your obligation and that's that's like my attitude toward marriage is that is I listen me in my wife um we've we've faced some hurdles in our marriage of things in the outside world that has happened, and I think we've done very good job of them. We've had that serious as we had that major health concerns with one of our kids and got through that. We've had been through lock downs and been through no, yes, and there's more ahead there, a lot more ahead. But one thing that is a for certain is that, that is that it's us for the rest of this like this is we're living this life together. That's what .

being married never. I mean, I have the same kind of marriage. I've had a happy marriage for thirty three years.

One of the reasons is that does what we're doing. Yeah, that's right. And I grew up with divorce.

I member as a child, my brother, my only brother, feels that we talk about this one. Kids like, fuck. Adults like, fuck them having kids and then getting divorce, single, find yourself in france, fuck you.

I knew, and I knew people in in, isn't in my parents generation. There were so many people like that, so many people I know ah and totally fucked up the kids and did IT cause like, right, like I got to be happy as if somehow that's a noble thing of, like I gotto be happy.

but they never turned out happy. No.

because the key to real happiness, and there are different ways to measure happiness like whatever, again, like there's someone training for a marathon and there's someone sit and having a bag of potato chips. And in the moment, the guy having the bag of potato chips might be happier than the guy training for the marathon. But like ultimately, who's going to feel Better about themselves is gonna. You know what I mean? Like there's um but you .

have a you have obligations .

and responsibility and if you don't fulfill those, you but also .

the long view like the neighbor D I group and had all kinds of rich divorced moms and every one of them was crazy and unhappy, every single one of them. And you wonder where I thought in the year, sensitive early now you know I mean living in some condo in scotstoun with parkinsons unvisited by their kids like IT, you'd get old and die in the end.

And when you do, and I really hope i'm stranded by all my girls and my son and like, oh, he was such a good guy like that, all that matters that I feel about that. I mean, they like talk about you would dinner and when you're gone. H, I miss him.

You don't want people. I've seen people die who mistreated their children. I've lived IT actually fuck that person, you know, to me, I don't want that.

And also look, I mean that kind of um the the absence of having that feeling or the the baby boomers kind of not feeling that way. It's kind of like, I mean, look what it's what it's LED to I mean it's very easy for um you know h say popular, conservative, you know ponders the kind of dung gun college kids and stuff like that which is like fun and ve i've enjoyed videos of where you know like bench heroes like destroying nineteen year old and some college campus and you know it's like, you know he is she's like some trans kid or something like that is like, well, I I was born a boy, but why can't I live as a woman and he's like, why can't you live is a cat and was a it's got the intellectual process of destroying this. And okay, that is stupid. That kid wasn't yet but you also kind of like peel a little bit deeper and you're likely what was this kid situation really because you're told me in one thousand year old, you know what I mean, I let me guess, came from a broken home.

I'm trying to words on the table here I agree with you.

So stronger was medicated I bet you know like as a Young .

and down the barrel of a grimm life.

yes has no conceivable path toward like independence and what what you have what you get with .

which is all that and you're in charge of the society, by the way, you're in charge of the study of influence in the society. You're in the privilege class. And there's no shame in that, by the way.

Yes, but IT does Carry with the obligation to see that the next generation is shot. And you haven't done that. You've wasted at all in foregate venture ism in your stupid economic ideas. And this is the result, and you will take no responsibility. Ly, for us like old, stupid kids, no, your job is to create another generation of smart kids.

And k, and they don't know, toast in your latest, then you will be able to buy a house or something. And you like, look, okay.

this is true and remain, I totally great.

It's look, it's true that this generation is in many ways, software and more privilege. And part of that because they they grew up with technological wealth that previous generations never had. It's also partly because their parents never instead like values in them to care about kind of more than just avocado toast.

But the fact is that baby boomers could go to college and get a summer job and pay for their college OK. And then if they didn't go to cogia, go to high school, then go weight online and get a job where you could support the wife and kids off of that job. This might might, you know, like, and that was the way of the world previously, that my grandfather worked in factories as his whole life, and his wife didn't work.

That was that he owned a house. He sent kids to college. He had two cars, like, they had a nice life. And these kids today come out with six figures of dead and are getting a job at, you know, starbucks.

And houses are going for like six hundred grand, you know what I mean for that same humble house that my my grandfather had. And the baby women all got rich by the value of their house just going. And and IT seems like not a one of them ever went.

Hey, but aren't we kind of like pulling up the latter on the helicopter here? Like if my house is like sky rocking and value, that's nice for me. I got a ha ck and I got like some money coming in now that I can invest in the market that's going up and make this income coming in.

But what about the next generation? How are they ever going to buy a house? Don't like no one seemed to come about.

I'm trying not to interrupt your wonderful description with a mens sana, but I just so strongly growth what you're saying and I have a bunch of kids that they are all actually thriving I would say inside um they're all good people, clear thinking. They love each other most important um but i'm around a lot of college kids are a lot like way more than most people. My age fifty four and I don't think their soft at all.

When I like my kids, I mean their friends, you know i'm are rounded a lot, their hard edge actually, right? They know how i'm in dirk. They may be wrong, they may be confused, but there they're actually pretty tough and away and they're pretty angry and they sort of get what's going on.

And I have deep sympathy for them. deep. They're been completely screwed over by the people and they need power even if you're in one thousand old colombia kid.

Like I may not agree with your slogans or down with White people, whatever I work course. I hate that I am a great person, but I do sort of like, think whose fault that is. The people who run everything is your your stupid boomer parents.

It's the administrators at the school. It's our politicians. I mean, i'm sure to blame society for the crimes of Young people, but actually does deserve the blame.

And the leaders, the society deserve the blame. This on a liberal perspective. That's a conservative perspective. I care about the next generation.

That's if you don't care about how your grandchildren are going to live here, how are you conservative? What are you conserving? You're not at all. You're just a freak. En rift.

Ter right right. And like what has and this is why you know um we when you were on my podcast, we set the the internet on fire by because I trashed bill bucky I like I completely agree we are not I said he was one of the great villains of the .

twenty eighth .

century that was a gatekeeper I an I say talking and i'm like, okay, fine, he was third. But the point the point is okay, like five ahead. I'm okay, fine, but he was. But I think part of this is that you know a lot of the kind of um conservative m inc.

People who who criticized uh us for saying that and that kind of like, well, how would you you know this was the guy who was the most prominent member of the conservative movement. And it's like, okay. And so like what exactly was conserved in his movement?

What like just expect, was that the constitution was IT what classical liberal values was IT religion was that tradition? Was that the definition of a woman? Like what exactly was a big conservative here?

I mean, like like i'll give you said, we still still have some gun rights. Okay, you know what I don't know. But like you lost everything. You lost united states of america. And part of the reason a major reason why is because the whole national review um like take over of the conservative movement was to drive out all of the all of the non interventionists, all of the all the isolation S I watched demonized .

them as racist every single happen. And weird i'm holding back because that's like I was Jason to that world my entire life and I and I watched IT um happen and know I knew bub kley property nice to me. You didn't hate .

them anything but very .

charming and very smart playing the asp. You know IT was all opposed. IT was completely fake and the only people who sort of a bought IT or people didn't know any Better, and that was like upper class or fake accent, weird homoerotic s stuff.

And I was like, all just kind of sad, actually. I thought, I thought that was always my view of IT, because I was team posing. But, you know, I think you are good qualities. I love sAiling and so I kind of you know I with them on that um but in the end you judge the tree bites fruits and the fruits are just absolutely rotten. And so I think it's important to be honest about that.

Well, I think the fruits were a transformation of the right wing in amErica from being the old right um which was really I mean they were fairly isolationist um but certainly non interventionist. I mean like you, Robert taft was the one who didn't want us to be in nato. I mean this was like the and they were big, unlike immigration controls, sound money and not getting involved in wars.

These were the people who oppose war one in world war two. They didn't want american involvement in these wars, right? And this, the the effect of bill butley was to transform what became a conservative movement into being cold warriors. What we do is we go everywhere around the world looking .

for award to face. So other words, the people who really loved america, not the idea, but the physical reality of amErica and her people, the people who actually live here and their homes and their little towns and their dumb little jobs, and all the stuff that makes up a civilization at scale, the people who care about that somehow became anti american.

And the people who would like to you about how amErica is an idea that doesn't matter who lives here, what those people are for america. I mean, it's like a complete version of reality, actually. And so again, it's nothing personally gets built. Bucky who I you play play mean harps acord but um not to be Kitty but you know but like that's a why you and the people who care about actual amErica are the people who said i'm on and I care about actual america, I am a good person. I'm not because I got all children to live here that's we care about you and like because .

I look at this, this was a really great country. And I mean, there are still a lot of great things about IT, but it's deteriorating. And why, you know, why should we be for that? You know, one of the crazy things about amErica is that there is kind of this, uh, this idea that we are are the united states of america, and have been this whole time, whether there's really been like several revolutions, you in the country, and you know what?

Look, I mean, I think the George w. George W. B. Bushes, the war on terrorism was a revolution of sorts in the country. I grew up a kid in the nineties.

We are not the same country as we were in the ninety nineties, in the prewar r before the patriotic, in the department of homeland security, in the T. S. A.

I mean, experience at an airport is a different thing. We are a different country. Then we were before that, I think covet has changed everything. You know that.

But even before that, I mean, you know, as you've talked about a lot like the in the wake of world, world to the creation of the C. I. A. This was a revolution in the country where is changed to is running the government.

And we think of the position of present of the united states of amErica being the same position that like, you know, that withdraw Wilson occupied or something like that. And it's not it's a totally different position. Donal trump did not have the same job.

F, D, R, head. They were very, very different. And so there is when people say, are you love america? It's like, yes, I love this country. I don't like the direction the governments going on.

I don't care for these new power and the bush thing. I have to say I could feel IT at the very beginning. I knew him before he became president.

I did not want to vote for him um and didn't I just didn't vote. I did vote for the second time because you always get caught up in the other guy. And I knew Carrier, and I just thought career was not impressive, but also voted for for bush.

But I see bush still like had a meal and not that long ago, and talk about a defeat. That guy actually bit insecure. You given intellectural everyone around him about what a great president was. And I thought, you know, that really is.

No, but that's the fruit of the tree right out, right? If you've had a successful way, if you've done the things that you you have fulfilled obligation and done the right thing, you're not lecturing people about what a great person you are right at all, are you? I don't think that's failure really.

And like, I mean, just s mean to try to spin the George w bus share as anything other than like an absolute failure. I mean, you know, do you celebrated mission accomplished, and then we stayed in the war for twenty years, you know, just a disaster, and left the country. And I mean, look, that not only was IT all completely unnecessary, I mean, like we add like the special ops response to alkali cells in afghanistan and late two thousand one totally justify that because we had an opportunity to trap on torabi two thousand one and I believe intentionally let them go so they could continue these wars um but fighting the decision do you .

do you think that's what happen? Yeah yeah um .

and there's um I highly recommend to any Scott horton uh rote a book called enough already which is like a masterpiece. History of all the terrorists and IT seems seems overwhelmingly likely that they already had their eye on iraq and that they knew that if they captured of some of bladon IT be very difficult to sell another war because we got the guy.

If that's really true, I mean, that's that's unspeakable evil. Well.

look, IT was IT was a you know you didn't read like through the details of IT, but there were a bunch of but they knew he was in tora bora and they were requested to me and they were regret and they didn't give IT to him know like this. IT certainly seems to be what IT looks like. And then IT was a decision that we're going to couple.

Then IT was a decision that we're gonna overthrow the taliban, fight the regime change war there and then go fight the regime change war in iraq. And I mean, like the like you said, judge them by their fruit. I mean the results of George w.

Bush's wars were, uh the trillions of dollars uh, wasted, hundreds of thousands of people in these countries died and hour bravest Young men blowing their brains out by the tens of thousands of those are the tangible results uh of what happens. And it's not even like we sacrifice that so that these countries are much Better places to live. They're actually worse then they yeah so there you go, you know so great administration. okay. So let me end .

on this question um because it's so depressing what you just said because it's true IT is true and no one's for IT and in fact the world if they were all rewarded for IT name the three things that give you hope outside of your own family in amErica right now.

okay. So well, the first one was kind of what I was touching on before that there is this. There is a seismic shift in the way people are um being exposed.

The part of the reason and I know you have you've talked about this a lot and I think explained IT very well, but what you're seeing out of the establishment, what you see out of nbc when they talk about Donald trump or when they talk about you for that matter, is not a ruling class that is confident that they have power. No, they are. They are like you, a cockroach that's trapped. And there's a reason for that and there's a reason why they're so hysterically.

And it's because for the first time in certainly in my lifetime, well beyond that, the um the monopoly over the control of information is truly been broken and that you watch this during covered where I mean like you and joe rogan had a huge impact on the the nation during covet because you were like the two biggest people with the biggest audiences completely exposing how insane the whole narrative was and how insane all of the the copy restrictions were and eventually got to a point where people just weren't taking IT anymore they weren't listening to fouche like you. We never had anything like that before. We never had like someone like joe rogan or someone like you doing the show where you know like in the run up to say in two thousand and two they are run up to the war in iraq.

There was just no one like that who was like blowing the whistle with tens of millions of people listening to them and explaining how this is all lies. We have that now, and they're freaking out about that. This is really why all the attempts at tech censorship happened since two thousand and sixteen because they they recognize that I go, H H, don trump can tweet his way to the White house.

He doesn't even have to go through. So we Better control twitter and, you know, youtube and facebook, and all of these are google and all of this. And even in their attempts to control IT, it's you've never been as good as they were at controlling when they were just three networkers and a few big newspapers.

And now I think elon mosque, really through a range of their plans, buying twitter. And so that so i'm very encouraged about that. I'm very encouraged about the fact that, you know, the people are kind of have access to the truth in a way that they never did before. I think, I think ideas are powerful, and I think that all governments rely on propaganda that doesn't work without that.

And there's something in that that's really encouraging in a way, it's like they they have to convince us before they can just do IT you know like every okay, there are two things that are seemingly contradicted tory, but they're not uh, number one, democracies in illusion IT doesn't really excess. Yes, you don't really ever have a democracy, you know oh, we get to vote the presidential like like even assuming all the votes are counted in the right way or something like that. It's like, yeah, you get to vote when these two parties, these private entities, decide who the candidate is and then you can pick between the two of them is not really democracy.

But in another sense, there's always democracy. And every nation, no matter how, whether they have free and fair elections or not, there's always like, there has to at least be tasted acceptance by the people about and if there's not you, you know, if there's five hundred thousand people out in the streets screaming at a dictator about how they want policy x, that dictator is like, you know, i've been considering IT and we will be implementing policy x you don't mean like it's because at the end of the day, there's way more of you than there are. And so when you can spread ideas, we have a fighting shot, I think.

Um so that's very encouraging to me. I think there's also been um a huge move away from U S. Hegemony internationally, which is both very scary um but is also I think necessary I think that the american amErica spiring as a country I think started with us getting off of the gold standard once government could print as much money as they want to, they make people rich for just trading and paper being politically connected and you're not earning anything to become rich and it's it's devastating yes. And then I think the unipolar moment was the worst thing that ever happened. I told america, right you need counter .

about winning is often losing.

right? And so you need the I don't I want to see that happen in the best way possible. Um I think it's very bad in some ways for our country or not the world reserve currency anymore, but it's ultimately the solution like it's no good of us being the the fact that we can just export paper and then maintain our standard of living isn't the right, I hope, a smooth transition. But like I do think there is something positive in the fact that that's all changing. Um so I I think all of those things make me have I don't know .

that I hate three yeah says you feel up on one losing our privilege, our unique privilege as the holder of the world reserve currency I mean, like it's going to happen. Course it's my progress. The ukraine more accelerated IT yes um but I haven't looked at the upside of that at all and I think it's inevitable. So IT would be nice to know what the upside is.

Well, I mean, if you think about look all the stuff that so we got this privilege after world war two yeah right with the britain water agreement um and a lot of the stuff where you talk about our soul as a country being destroyed IT happened in large part as a result of that you know because we didn't have to earn our place in the world anymore. We could just export pater. And of course, we immediately started cheating.

And this is why nexon took us off the gold standard. It's not that no, nick and went off the gold standard. It's that the french called is bluff.

We were saying will exchange uh, dollars for thirty five dollars, announce and they went OK will take our gold and when i'm sorry, was that I don't like, no, no, I just thought you did this old like you had this whole space program and you fought a warm to the entire and then nixon was like, victims on the attack against the U. S. Dollar is like, what you mean? We had a contract that they were like live up there to the contracts.

But once we once there was no more pretense, then we could just point money like crazy. And then you have everybody in wall street getting rich in the eighties. You have the tech broom in the nine.

Yes, this all. And so i'm just saying I think that I don't know that it's been great for our country to beat the world reserve currency. I think it's been great for the military industrial complex. I think it's been great for wall street. I don't think it's been good for our soul.

And so if I handed you a billion dollars and and do you think you would .

improve your life, I think IT IT would probably destroyed my you because what you if you actually start thinking that throw so then I go like, okay, so are right, fine. So initially, okay, I could buy E A bunch call stuff. That's great. We all know that's not really what matters. Anyway.

little a moment.

feel really for sure, right? And then it's like, OK, so what am I going to do for my family now? Like my, obviously my I, my kids, my wife, but are my responsibility.

But then like, okay, I got a brother. I ve got a six. I got a bunch money too. My brother is like just coming out of grad school.

Um it's like I going to hand him huge and just take away all of his drive to let go make IT on his own. Now am I going to give him nothing and be a brother who has a billion dollars and gives him nothing? And that's not an option.

I don't know. Things get like way more complicated very quickly where you're like no, actually that's not the right answer. And also it's not as if I have like the respect from my family now like, oh my god, you're taking care about us and a billion anything you actually .

want that I want to .

have a nice house because I worked to get my family, you know so yeah no, I wouldn't want that. I don't know how.

I don't know. You're one of the rare people I just share with all the events. Think so.

Yeah, I want to know how that happened. But um thank you. That was a guy.

Love that. Thank you so much. I've really, really enjoy being me too.

Daves, me, thanks. Thanks for .

listening .

tucker crosses and show. If you enjoy IT, you can go to tuck across and not calm to see everything that we have made the complete library, dr. Croson dot com.