My Parents on Birthing a 10lb Baby, Raising Three Boys & Life as Empty Nesters
01:14:14 Share

We're committed. We would never get a divorce. One of us would just be dead.

Don't do that. I'm kidding. My body would never be found. What's up dudes? And welcome back to the Unplanned Podcast. Today we are joined by my parents. This is their second appearance on the podcast. You guys are only our second guest to appear on the podcast twice. Wow. We're honored. We're popular. Hey, we're honored to have you here. I'm honored that you're wearing our merch. Thank you. I love it. These are comfortable.

What do you guys think about it? Give me your honest feedback on the merch. I like it. It really is warm and cozy. It feels nice and soft. It's quality. I can tell it's quality fabric. I like this color. That makes me happy. We didn't pay them to say that, by the way. Yeah, this is honestly their real feedback. This is free, right? I get it free. You get it free. We will give it to you for free. I'm kidding. Talk to us afterward. We will pull some strings. We will ship it to your house.

This is a good color. I like this color. Isn't the blue cool? Yeah. I really like it. I like the blue, but I really like the black. Oh, you like the black more? Because I kind of like, I think people might like the blue more, but you're digging the black. This is unique. When you get fat like me, then you wear the black. Yeah.

It hides my belly. It covers a lot of... I'm excited to have you guys on today because I just realized you've been married for 31 years. That is a long time. It feels longer. It feels longer. It just seems longer. Do you remember what life was like before marriage? It was wonderful. No. Stop. Stop.

Mom, what about you? Do you remember life before marriage? Not hardly. It just kind of feels like you've been married to this man. I can't imagine any other way. No, it's been, it has been wonderful. Do you guys believe in soulmates? Yes. Actually? Yes.

No, you know you don't. Oh, because that started a fight. You guys got in a big fight about that during premarital counseling, right? Yeah, exactly. We were at the church and our survey indicated that we're a perfect match, but there's a couple things that we're pretty far apart on. Extremely different on.

And it was about, you feel like this is the only person that you could be married to and be happy. And I said, no. And mom said, yes. Yeah. Like I was like 10. Yes. Cause it's like two weeks before the marriage. I'm like, yes, it's my one and only. And he's like, absolutely not. I'm like, Oh,

Oh my gosh. And so that really hurt your feelings. Yeah, because the way I thought about it is like if I lived in a different state, never met mom, I'm sure I'd probably find somebody as nice, but not as pretty, that I could be married to and enjoy my life with. Good answer. Yeah, Abby and I were talking about that because we kind of both agree that we don't believe in soulmates. So what about you? Has your opinion changed? I think you swayed my opinion on that. Oh, I did? Yeah, because I think...

Like if you wouldn't have been so logical about it.

I would have been like, yeah, I think we are soulmates. Like I couldn't be with anyone else. Yeah. But your logical brain has changed my brain to think about things more logically, I guess. Has your opinion changed mom? Yes. Cause I, my brain is logical too, but this, like I said, this was like within weeks of the wedding. Yeah. So I was all goo goo and in wedding mode and in love, which is good. And I'm still in love, but me too.

Being that I have a logical brain, I was like, you're right. There's somebody in Alaska. There's somebody in California. There's somebody, you know. I think relationships, whether if it's a spouse or a friend, takes work, you know. There's friends that I've had years ago, and I don't see them very often. We've kind of grown apart. And the same thing happens if you're not together and you're doing things on a regular basis. You grow apart. Yeah. And whether it's somebody you met in your state or you met...

far, far away. It just takes effort. And if you're apart from that person, you lose that relationship. You lose that bond. Yeah. Don't you agree when you think that's true? Totally. Communication.

So we try to spend time every night together. And, you know, I think it's important that I had an opportunity to go to Peoria, Illinois. I've been a lot more money and I knew that would not be good for our, our life, our marital life. So I decided not to pursue that because I just knew that, you know, once you get displaced and we know people that,

or live in that kind of life where they work. Wait, you're talking about like a job opportunity that happened recently? No, this is about two and a half years ago. Yeah, pretty recent. And you were thinking about like living separate lives almost that you can make your money? Yeah, during the week. I did an interview for the position, but the guy who I knew worked for a company that I worked for and I said, hey, we think you might be a good fit. We'd be interested. And he told me how much money it was going to be. A lot. It was more than three times, almost five times as much money as I'm making. Wow. So it's very, very tempting. And I...

didn't interview because I realized if I go up to Peoria and I'm away from mom and the family, and this is three years ago, whatever, it just wouldn't be good.

It's not healthy. Unhealthy. I mean, if you have to do it for a period, people do what they have to do. But long term, I don't think it's healthy. But there's lots of people that do that. They live their lives where one of them has to be a part. And it's just tough, you know? Yeah. Celebrities have that issue. We're not celebrities. You guys are celebrities. Oh, we are celebrities. Yeah. You guys are a fan favorite on the pod. Yeah.

Hey, so serious note though, has there ever been a time in the 31 years that you've been married that you didn't think you were going to make it or that you thought, oh, this is really hard. I don't know how we're going to move forward. Probably about four or five times, I guess. Are you serious? I don't know. It's kind of hard to quantify, but yeah, there was times where we were...

And I'd say, look... Wait, bickering? No. Bickering. And if you think you'd be better off that I'm gone, I'll pick up and leave, you know. And, you know, I really don't want to leave because I love her and I would hate to be apart from mom. But...

We were just kind of having a tough time, but we worked through it. It's not 50-50, as you guys know. Sometimes you're giving 100 and the other person's giving 10. And, you know, it's just commitment. We're committed to each other. And one of the biggest is...

I think the biggest divorce rate is empty nesters when all your kids are gone. Wait, really? I had no idea. Yeah, the largest percentage. Because you're just in this grind mode of you take him there, I'm here, you're there, you know, here's dinner. And you don't even have time to think and you try to fit each other in, which we tried to do that. Always have time for each other because you don't want the kids to be gone and then be like...

What is your name? I don't even remember you. So I was pretty good and intentional about scheduling, you know, our time weekends away or whatever once a year so that we could stay in love. Oh, yeah. I remember the big, was it her 40th?

Yeah, 40th. You guys went to Hawaii for a big trip and it was a week away from the kids. Yep. So that was 17 years ago? Yeah. As parents, was that hard to be away from the kids? Because how old were they at that time? Oh, you guys were little. Matt, you were 25? So Josh was three. I was seven. Three. Yeah, that was the hardest. Josh was three, Matt was seven, and Caleb was nine. And I think we kidded about this. Matt could have cared less because...

He's very independent. They were with each of my sisters, mom, grandmas, like two, three days with each person. No one could handle them more than two days because it was a lot, you know, three, seven, and nine. But Caleb wanted to talk to us every day and Josh did. But Matt was like, hey,

Bye. See ya. Well, one of our relatives had a trampoline and you guys wouldn't let us have a trampoline. So you would call and I'm like, I'm doing backflips on the trampoline. I don't want to talk right now. This is so much fun. Yeah. Well, they had all girls, so it was a little safer, you know, but you were boys. But so anyway, it's lately we've been reading books on empty nesters and how to communicate and how to spark that fire and, uh,

just doing our bucket list of what we want to do now that everybody's out of the house. So do you enjoy as far as your marriage, is your marriage better or worse now that kids are out of the house? It's kind of hard to say. It's just a different season, different intensity, I guess, is what makes you happy. I guess we have more time and we have the challenges of the kids. Um,

So it's a little bit more freedom, I guess, that we have to do what we want to do. But that's why we're working on it. Like it could be easy to just go or separate. Like you start doing your hobbies and I'll do my hobbies. That's the book I'm reading that. Yeah. So they didn't have the busyness of their family. So they each started doing all the things that they wanted to do that they couldn't with kids instead of doing them together.

So like we've been walking the Katy Trail. We've been going to Augusta and just walking the Katy Trail and going to the winery or these beer gardens or whatever just for the day. You know, that's in our backyard. But we've also been working on a bathroom project that takes a lot of time. And mom's done 97% of the planning. Wow. And that's what this family did too. You let everything go in the house when you have kids. You know what I mean? Especially three boys that just got destroyed. And now we're fixing up.

everything and dad just fixed up a gym in the basement. Who's going to work out in that gym? Guests? People come to visit? We'll charge you. I still can't believe you're building a whole gym. I'm like, you don't even work out at your own house. Why would you build a house? Yes, he will. So our unfurnished part of the basement just didn't have any drywall and I just thought it'd be a little bit more appealing to me if I could put a

TV down there and have something that's a little more appealing and inviting. And I need to get some better lighting. So, but anyway, it's pretty much done. And we had a little leak in our expansion tank, which sprayed water everywhere, but I got that fixed and we're excited for you guys to see it. Who cleans your house now that there's no kids there to clean it for you? It doesn't get dirty. I clean all the hair off of your bathroom floor with the little sticky roller. And that was for pet dander. That wasn't even supposed to be for human dander, but it worked.

Cause dad's hairy. I thought everybody did that. Cause dad's hairy. Dad's a hairy monster. I think you both are. I mean, there was so much hair on that floor. No, this is the only thing I lose. He's, yeah, no. Yeah, you wait. Those two little boys you got, they're going to make messes where you didn't think you could have more of a messy thing. And it's just a constant battle. Yeah. Seriously, did you guys hire a cleaner? What are you doing? Yeah, she's got me. You were good about having your boys do stuff around the house and be respectful. Like,

I guess, what are some of your best tips for, like, we have two boys now. Not three yet. We got two. Not three.

I feel like we're going to have a third boy. I'm just saying it. I really feel like we will. Probably so. And that will be the end. I already have him named. You have a little girl and I'm going to spoil her rotten. I would love a little girl. Anyway, not about us. No. What are your best tips for raising little boys or little kids in general? I guess my biggest tip is just give them the time they need. And you guys are doing a great job with it. You're raising two wonderful little boys. I know you're just getting started with it. But just be an understanding. And it's more about your relationship with them than the stuff.

I came home one time and mom was trying to get the boys to clean something and they put this cleaner on the carpet and it created a stain. And I was so upset that our nice house is going to have this permanent stain. It's still there. And it's still there. The white spot on the carpet. Was that Josh or me? It's more important that you guys are learning to clean and helping your mom and

and that our house was lived in. It didn't have to be perfect. It was about your relationship with your family, not how pretty the house was. And I think that's the biggest thing. So if something gets ruined or messed up,

don't make a big deal about it. I know it's kind of stinks. It's money. You're trying to keep your house nice, but it's more important to have that relationship with your child than it has to have a perfectly clean house. Well, yeah. And, but if you're a perfectionist, which I can be, or used to be, you know, you can do it better than they can. And it's going to take way longer to show them at two or three, how to fold towels or whatever. And it's going to look bad, but you just have to,

take a deep breath and be like, in the long run, this is good. That's how you learn. I don't know. I clean that bathroom floor pretty good. You would tell me, hey, Matt, can I eat off of this? Because if I can't eat off of it, it's not clean enough. Well, the other thing is, you know...

Your boys are little now. They're not at that age where they start fighting. But mom came home one time when you and Caleb were having a big fight. And Caleb had you some type of a headlock. This was like high school. And you were scratching him. And his neck was just all scratched up, bleeding. And you're all red-faced. And she told me about it. And I thought it was somewhat funny. But that's rare. But it's also scary because you get to a certain point. You can hurt each other. But that was rare. Yeah. Yeah, you guys didn't really fight that much. No. How did you do that? Because I...

Like literally actively dreading the day that Griffin and Augie start fighting with each other. I swear. It's going to happen. It depends on your oldest. It really, because we saw a lot of boy families in baseball because John coached a lot of baseball and soccer and we would go on these tournaments and there was an older boy with little brothers and they would be so mean to them and the parents would do nothing and it just broke my heart. But Caleb set the standard. I mean, I mean,

I'm not saying it's anything to do with this. I'm saying he has a great heart and was a very good big brother. And I think that trickled down, you know, to Matt, which then trickled down to Josh. Like, I think he really helped to make it a good situation. And I think you got on top of those things right away. I did. If you let it fester, then it's hard to kind of bring it back down to a level where you can manage it. So you're doing a good job. If you tell Griffin, hey, be good to your little brother. Don't hit him. Don't don't be mean.

all those kind of things. And it just, then you realize this, Oh, this is my little brother. I got to be good to my little brother. And I think that's important to learn at an early age. Cause later on they'll have some issues. There's so much ugliness in the world and people beating up on each other. We're going to be good to each other in this house. And I think we might've talked about that last time, not every night, but a lot of nights we'd go around the house, the table and everybody had to compliment, say one nice thing about each person. I remember that. It sounds kind of corny, but,

You've got to look for the positives. It lifts them up. It lifts you up. And it's like people that I've watched in your comments where people say negative things about you. It's like, I don't understand why people would follow somebody just so they can haunt them and say something negative. Just be positive. You know, be positive. I agree with you, Dad. These two people are great people. They're doing a good job raising these two little boys. And they would want nothing better than for their fan base to enjoy their friends and family and do good for each other. And you guys do that. So thank you. That's really nice. Thanks, Dad. That's so nice. They're literally like...

Some of our biggest fans. It's so sweet. I know you guys listen to every podcast. Almost. We used to, but it's too much. Do you watch every podcast or YouTube video? Almost. We've watched some that we disclose some things that we don't know about. Like babies being conceived in our house. I forget you guys watch every episode. I'm like, oh my gosh. And everyone's probably going to say, oh my gosh, my parents are going to watch this.

yeah this is uncomfortable yeah and as soon as we watch we send you a message or like groupon someone said they use groupon i think you guys figured out that we conceived our child that thanksgiving yeah so you go my mom uses groupon all the time that time you are a big grouponer my you are big into coupons mom you have stashes of coupons in your

house like everywhere used to oh you don't so is it now a virtual yeah it's more virtual now but that's nice you have less clutter i know is mom decluttering a little bit what a blessing yeah okay yeah there's things that she's getting rid of one thing i've started to do for her is i get her flowers about once a month she really likes flowers even almost like once a week that's nice good job dad right before they clear out all flowers in the cemetery that's why you usually go in and get something nice

You can find some really good decorations. Has dad gotten funnier as he's gotten older? Yeah. You think so? I think I'm funny. Okay. So this is the thing. You know, when you have three kids and I stayed home some and work part-time some and you're always just saving for them and their college, you know, I was like, I don't need flowers. Like, that's just a waste of money. It's frivolous. I always said that. And now I'm like having a different mindset. I'm like, Josh is a junior. You and Caleb are at gone.

I want to have flowers sometimes. So almost it's,

almost every week you get flowers. It's not so much the flowers, it's just the idea that I'm thinking of her and I come home with flowers and she goes, oh my gosh, he thought about me today. So I have them Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I work from home Monday and I just can sit with them and it's nice. For Abby, that's coffee. I'll go and get her a coffee like almost every morning and she loves it. It was crazy. The first time that I did it, the day was just amazing. She was so happy. It was just a great day and I thought, man, I need to do this literally every day. No, but like you said, it's not about

the actual thing is that you thought of us and that you went and did something. Right. And I think about you all the time but usually I don't accompany it by an action so if I have an action that accompanies that then you're aware. You think about me all the time? Of course. Positive thoughts?

By the way, can we just spam the comments with Abby looks so cute in her headband? I don't know why she never wears headbands, but this little headband she's wearing today is so cute. Because I feel like Alice in Wonderland. I love it. I've never seen you wear. Alice. I haven't seen you wear a headband in years. I don't know why you decided to wear that today. No, I've never worn one. But it's so cute. I always thought it drew too much attention to my ears. I think you have cute ears.

You're really pretty. You're really, really pretty. I do have little ears. Maybe that's why it's kind of hard for me to hear. You're a lovely mom. You look so good. As a mom, it's really helpful to keep your hair out of your face. Especially nursing, I'm like looking down. Yeah. No, this is great. So send in the headbands. I know, I just.

Two more headbands from Amazon for $5.25. No way. Awesome. Wait, is it because I complimented it last night? Yeah. And then you were like, I want to get more of these? No, you complimented it. It's cute. Oh, I did that today. That's right. So I just did buy now. Oh, before I forget, we ate at a restaurant with these two this afternoon. And on the way out, some fans recognized you. And you guys did a great job when somebody recognized you. And you took pictures with these little kids. And it meant the world to this little girl to be able to have her picture taken with you guys. Yeah, that was precious. So that's something that I've watched and observed constantly.

Because if I was in your position, I might be tired. I don't want to do it. You guys just light up, and it's really neat to see how you guys...

Support your fans. Support your fans and just react to how fans are so happy because they're going to see you one time, maybe in their whole life, and for you to take your time out of your day to support, I guess, their interest in you and take pictures. That's really neat. It's really cute. That's so nice. No, it's really important. I see that. Yeah, it's precious. Thank you. Yeah. Well, back to the raising boys thing, I totally forgot my question. Okay, wait. Something about having kids.

That's a deficit. You guys got married, but then you waited almost five years to have kids. Whoa, hold on. We got married in 92. Kayla was born in 96.

And that was in your 30s because I told Abby the other day, we could literally wait like eight years to have more children. And that would be in our 30s just like you did because you were 30 and dad was 32 and you had Caleb, right? Yeah. I think, you know, we dated two years and then got engaged and then were engaged a year. So we were together three years before we got married. Okay.

And then, yeah, we waited four and a half before he had Caleb. So really we were together seven and a half years. And I really, we just always talked unfortunate. Like no one in my family had ever divorced. And, but my mom and dad did right when we were getting married. So we were like, okay, we really want to make sure this is right. You know, there's no need to rush.

And unfortunately, John's family, his dad, that happened quite a bit. And so we were like, we don't want this to happen. This is forever. We're getting, this is a covenant. Yeah, I was very concerned about making the wrong decision and getting divorced. I wanted to make sure I waited until I was ready. So we waited to get married. We knew after three months we were going to get married. Okay. But we waited three years just to get, because you need to go through all the ups and downs. And all, you know, there's going to be valleys. Yeah.

There's going to be mountains. And there were. And, you know, we did it. And then we were like, let's just enjoy our time and then have kids and not think, oh, I wish we could go out and I wish we could do this. And I wish, you know, we had some fun. And then we were ready to stay home, you know. And so we're committed for life. I said...

We would never get a divorce. One of us would just be dead. We would just kill the other one. Don't do that. I'm kidding. It's a joke. It's a joke. I see you watching Dateline all the time, Mom. She knows how to get rid of me and my body would never be found. How to kill your husband. It's always how to kill your wife. You heard it right here, folks. You know if there's anything ever happens to my parents, you know how it happened. Matt, there's no way that we could drag your dead bodies anywhere.

Think about how heavy you'd be. Why are we talking about this right now? You're into that too. Abby listens to Crime Junkie. It's like a murder podcast. Crime Junkie? I would have to push you off of a cliff or something. Abby knows how to kill people very efficiently. She listens to this stuff all the time. It's the interesting stuff. Honestly, I feel like it's a woman's innate urge to figure out how to stay alive because it's always the women. Right.

99% of the time. We're always being friended. It's the guy doing it. I heard about that one where the two best friends ended up having a little something come up and one of the best friends hooked up with his other best friend's wife and then they murdered the best friend. Yeah, but she had a man do it with her. Well, I guess she was the culprit. She was the one that convinced him. They said that he got eaten by crocodiles. It wasn't true. She just had the guy do it.

Honestly, it's just really sad. Yeah, let's think about positive things. Yeah. But I think that stuff is selfish when people make those decisions. It's just selfish. This episode is sponsored by SeatGeek. We love using SeatGeek to find the best deals on shows, games.

names, everything from the above. - Everything from the above. And we actually went to a show on my birthday a year and a half ago using SeatGeek. What's really nice is you can find deals on tickets by using their tool to see if they're in the red, the green, the yellow. Green obviously means you got a good deal. SeatGeek has pricing technology to tell you when it's a good deal and when it's not a good deal. So they make it super easy for you to buy tickets, find deals. You can literally do it right on your phone or your computer if you're old school.

Yeah. And we've used it much more frequently than just a year and a half ago. I think that was just the first time we actually, no, it wasn't even the first time. Wait, was that the first time we used Seageek? No, but we've used it before then we've used it many times since. I even looked recently for us to go to the Nutcracker. It is the best, most simple app and

you know we came through for you guys we have a code use our code unplanned for $20 off tickets at SeatGeek that's $20 off your first purchase with promo code unplanned make sure you click the link in the description to download the app thank you now back to the episode you didn't have kids for you said three and a half years four and a half four and a half just to make sure they're going to stay together but dad I remember there was a time in your life where you thought you would never get married and you thought you would never have kids why did you decide to have kids what changed

Short skirt and tan legs. That sounds awful. That's weird. I'm pretty deep. No, I'm a shallow guy. I saw mom. I was like, wow, she is...

So I just walked right over to her, introduced myself, and the rest is history. There's much prettier women that you saw before that. Hey, you know what? Who's the gal that reminds me of you? And I took a picture, compared your eyes to her eyes. Oh, no. I don't look anything like her. What's her name? Just don't. Come on. What's her name? Hi.

So Heidi Klum and mom have the same eyes and nose. So I took a picture of mom and Heidi Klum. She goes, what are you doing? I said, hang on a second. I edited it and showed both of them. And her eyes and nose, both of them were very similar. So maybe she's your other soulmate. Maybe she's the other person. Yes.

No, I think your mother is beautiful and I couldn't be happier. That doesn't make sense. You went from not wanting to get married and have kids. I didn't think I could be happy being married and having to deal with kids and all the stuff that goes on with kids. I just wanted to be rich, famous, and do whatever I wanted to do and just be all about me. And then I had two guys I worked with, Mike and...

It doesn't matter. I was talking to two of them. Let's just say Dave. And one guy was traveling and going to Hawaii and just having a great time. And Mike was married, had three daughters, and he spent all this time on his kids and money on his kids. And they were doing dance classes and everything. And he drove an older vehicle. And the other guy had a hot rod car. And I was like, I don't want to be like the other guy and not be like Mike.

And Mike sat me down. He was my boss. And he goes, now look, someday you're going to wish you had a family and it's going to be important that you have family. And family is more important than a car that's going to rot and rust and everything else. And he was right. So look at me. I'm blessed to have a wonderful son, grandson, and great daughter-in-law and couldn't be happier. You really wished you had a daughter though. Yes. Yeah. But someday I'll have a granddaughter. Yeah.

We're trying. We only have boys. He will. But when you got married, when you got married though, it was, did you guys always know that you were going to have kids or was that a topic of discussion? Yeah, we talked about it. It was just a quantity. And he wanted three and I wanted three. So that was good. We always said three. I don't know why. And people say, oh, when you ride the roller coaster, you have an odd person, all this weird stuff. It's like, how often are you on a

roller coaster. Exactly. John or I'll sit alone. Or if you're in a booth having dinner at a restaurant, you can have a set of four. Having five is difficult, but sometimes a spouse is not there or one of the kids is going to a friend's house and then one day somebody said, well, now you got your golf foursome. So I got three boys and myself. I said, yep, someday I'll have to take my boys out and have our golf foursome. We've never done it, but it'd be cool to do that. But I actually wanted all three boys. John,

Unfortunately, like most people in middle school, I was bullied, you know, my eighth grade year and girls were lying saying I was doing all these wild things that I didn't even know what they were. You know, I was just so clean cut.

And I was crying myself to sleep every night. And I was like, for a period, you know, and I thought, I am miserable. Like, if this was my daughter, I would want to go up to school and wring some necks. And you can't do that. You know what I mean? So I thought most of my friends were guys. They're just, this is a compliment, like simpler, straightforward, say it like it is, move on.

And so I had mostly guy friends. And I was like, God, I just want three boys. Just three boys. And so I wanted that. Now, John, he wanted a girl. But I think if I'd have had a girl, he'd have forgot about me.

And when you were working full-time as an engineer, you started to have kids. Which, by the way, congratulations on... I didn't realize as a kid how cool that was that my mom got her engineering degree. I didn't realize how hard that was to do. And I didn't realize that you were a pioneer in that, too. Because not very many women went to school and got a civil engineering degree and did what you did. So kudos to you, mom. That's awesome that you did that. People do a lot harder things. But...

But when you started to have kids, why did you decide to quit your job and become a stay-at-home mom? Well, I feel so bad for people that have to work unless they want to work outside the home. You know, some women do, but I wanted to raise my own kids. I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, but we had some financial issues. So I worked part-time with you and Caleb. I worked 20 hours a week.

And then with Josh, it was just too much because dad was working lots of hours and all weekend. And so I stayed home full time. And then I went back part time. And now I'm full time again now that everybody's out of the house. But I wanted to raise my kids. I thought, why am I having kids if I'm not going to be a part of their life? You know what I mean? But like I said, some people can't afford it. And

I don't know how you guys have said that too. I don't know how single parents do it. I don't. Yeah. That would be the most difficult job and people that work outside the home and a single parent, you know, it's just, whew. But anyway, I love being a mom and I just had the degree to fall back on and it's, it's served us well, right? A few times that dad's had some job challenges and I could step up and,

that's what being a partner is about. And you're back now, you're back working full time as an engineer. That's pretty cool. For five and a half years. Yeah. I've always worked in a sales capacity. It's performance based. So you can have a good year, you have a bad year. And if you don't have a good year, just like a professional athlete, you know, they, they can't keep it around if you're not,

driving in runs or pitching well. So in sales, if you're not hitting your numbers, they don't keep you. So that's why I think you guys have been a little gun-shy about going on a sales career. You're something different now. But I think sales career is a great career, but sometimes it's pretty tough because no matter what you do, sometimes you just can't close that deal and it's tough. When you look back on memories of raising me and my two brothers and what those times looked like,

Are there certain moments that you wish you could go back to? Are there certain times that you felt, oh, maybe I was working? Also, who is your most troublemaking child? Well, we've already discussed that. Who is it? He's at the mic right now. I wonder who it is. You. Was that the hardest race of all the boys? I think he just had a lot of questions. Okay. And...

I think that's probably the biggest thing is Caleb didn't ask the questions you asked, but you were very curious about how things work and why things happen and questions about Santa Claus since this is going to air right before Christmas. You were like figuring things out about Santa Claus that other kids your age hadn't thought about and you just...

I don't know. You're just kind of very aware of everything that's going on. You ask a lot of questions. I remember drilling you about Santa Claus. Oh, yeah. I drilled you hard because once I figured everything out, I was like, okay, so then the same must be true about the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny. You know, all these people...

Yeah, you challenged your mother big time and you saw a gift in the back of the car. No, that was Caleb actually. Caleb figured it out. With me, we had an interrogation room essentially in second grade. Me and my buddies, we were kind of like interrogating. We were just like thinking, it was almost like Santa was on trial and all. Like me and all my friends were like, okay, what is the evidence? Like what are you guys seeing in your house that makes you think that Santa's real? And we started to figure it out. That's so cute. Yeah.

And that's pretty advanced to think and talk like that because a lot of little boys your age, that's the last thing they think of. I've just always questioned everything. I wanted to know why. I didn't want to know, oh, this is just the way we do things. I wanted to know the reason why because I...

I don't know. I just want to accept that face value. This is why we do things and I'm not going to explain to you. And that's what everybody said. He's smart is why he asked questions. You wouldn't stop asking questions. And I would answer like 10 in 20 minutes. And then I'm like,

Okay, I've hit my limit. Mom, just because mother said, we're moving on because I was exhausted. How should we approach the birds and the bees talk with our kids? I think you let them ask about those things. Don't tell them things they're not ready for. Okay. So it's that call when you wait to them to get to age, approach them.

where they start asking questions and don't bring it up and try to force something that's not ready to be exposed to your children. Yeah. What if they don't ask? Then just let it go. But what if they're like, they're in eighth grade, you know by eighth grade they've already figured it out. In eighth grade, they usually kind of know that there's something going on. So I would ask questions and see where they're at with the thought process and,

But don't force it on them until they're ready. But maybe ask them questions. Yeah, I think you're totally right about that. But I almost think that if your kid is getting a little bit older, you need to have a conversation. Yes. Because you want to make sure they're not learning everything from kids in school or from the internet. Correct. I wasn't told anything. And my parents were like, oh, yeah, we did. I'm like, I think I would know. That would be a memorable conversation. Yeah. Did you have a birds and bees talk with your parents, Dad? No, no, no.

kind of away from a lot of other families because we lived in a rural environment and then we moved to this place in Wisconsin where I had some neighbors and they were girls and then we were playing spin the bottle kissing and everything so then my dad had a conversation about the birds and the bees because he knew that we were playing spin the bottle oh I thought it was good you were about to say that it was because you live on a farm and that's how a lot of people learned about

Wow. Yeah. So eighth grade, we were playing spin the bottle and my dad found out that, you know, my brother and I were going over to the neighbor's house playing spin the bottle of the girls and he wanted to make sure that we knew that we got to be careful.

Did they have like sex education in school when you guys were kids? No. That wasn't a thing? In high school? Not, not, I don't remember ever. Really? They did in high school. I'm pretty sure they like gave each kid a banana and were like, here's a condom, here's how you put a banana on. Which, why would they even need to do that now that you think about it? Like, wow. Yeah. What do you mean?

Like that seems pretty. I don't know. I guess. Straightforward. I know it's probably straightforward, but people are, kids are stupid, man. Like kids do some stupid stuff. You got to make it pretty. You got to make the instructions pretty simple. Yeah, you're right. Make it as clear as possible. You think they should use a cucumber and not a banana? I don't know, man. Neither's great. Okay. Enough on that. All right. Let's move on. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Yes. Funny. What was the most ornery thing Matt did growing up? I'm just curious. Ornery. Remember something ornery that we can share here? I drew the American Idol logo on our carpet when I was five because I really wanted to be on American Idol. They were kids markers, but they weren't waterproof. Yeah. They were permanent. Who has kids markers that are permanent?

I don't know. I think the biggest arguments were over the silly helmet. Oh, yeah. And now you're the helmet man. I think helmets are great. You guys made your point. But see, I like to have fun safely. Yeah. I call it safely sending it. So if I'm going to do something fun, I want to make sure I'm doing the most to ensure that I'm safe in case I fall off. Right? Because-

There's so many stupid ways to die or stupid ways to get paralyzed or have a concussion. You might as well throw the helmet on and call it a day. I guess probably one of the ornery things he did, he's very, once he gets his mindset, he's going to do it. So when you start dating Abby and she lives in Quincy, you're like, I'm going to go visit Abby. Two hours away. Two hours. Yeah.

Gosh, 18 years old, I guess. I was 18. I was about to turn 19. So you just started driving two years before. And all of a sudden, you're driving by yourself all the way up to Quincy by yourself. These little roads. And you're just taking off. And one time, I think you said, I'm going there. And you're like, no, you're not. No, you're not. And they retract you with Life 360. Okay, you're almost to Quincy. Yeah.

That was on me, Matt. I remember that. And you guys called Maddie's parents. Oh, yeah, you called my parents. And you told them, hey, just so you know, Matt. We told him not to go. Well, I didn't want them to think we were crazy. Like, I think it was a school night or something. I think I might have been off school the next day. I don't know. But she wasn't. I had one month left of school. I know. I was 18, about to turn 19. I was going into college. And so you guys were saying, no, you can't visit your girlfriend. And I said, I'm not going to.

I don't know about that. But that sounds drastic when you were seeing her like every week. It's not like we were saying, you can't see. I was old enough to be in college. I know. And that was another good move too on that. We can talk about that in a second. Kindergarten twice. My mom held me back. I went to kindergarten twice. It wasn't hold back. It was the gift of time. That's right.

It was a blessing. I could have been medicated though for ADHD. No, you wouldn't have your creativity. No. I could have probably just taken it maybe like a day or two a week. No.

No. I'm still unmedicated. One of the neat things you did is you were in the box and you wanted to ask her to a homecoming or something. Yeah. And so Lori helped out with this gift idea. So you showed up, put this box in the front porch. They've shown it. Yeah, front porch. And they just ended their song that you just released with Abby laughing. If you come in out of that box, I thought that was a real cute way to end that show.

So I wasn't trying to narc on you, letting her parents know. I wanted them to know we were responsible parents and we were not just allowing you to drive up there because you were going up there a lot. Yeah. And here you're in high school. You,

I was so in love. I was still in love. Yeah. And we're like, we didn't say this was okay. Like, cause I knew they weren't letting you drive. Cause it was small little roads. Yeah. It wasn't an interstate. It was pretty dicey. That was all I knew. I didn't know how to drive on interstate. Yeah. How are you guys going to keep this, this fire going? That's one of the things that we've tried to do. So, I mean, we're trying to keep, I think by being, um,

Intentional. Positive and intentional. That's the word. Intentional. You have to be intentional. I would bring her flowers. I'd massage her back every time. But there's kind of times we fight. But then the makeup is fun, too. After you've been fighting, you get makeup. And that's fun. Dad, that is so weird. What? The makeup is fun? I'm not talking about mascara. I know you're not talking about mascara, Dad.

This is where Matt gets it from, by the way. Yeah. No, no. That totally makes sense. You are my parents. I'm intentional to a fault, actually. I don't go with the flow. I don't, like, whatever. Whatever.

But the good part of that is like, yeah, every night we eat and he helps me clean up. But then I'm like, okay, are we going to read a book together? We'll read, you know, and talk about it or go for a walk together and talk. We always are intentional about what are we doing together every night. Right. And I think that's important. Now, you can't, you guys necessarily, but once everybody's gone, you got to at least have your 10 minutes of being intentional or whatever, you know, with kids. Yeah, it's pretty...

wild to me just because we don't have a normal perspective on life in a lot of ways but especially because we work together all day every day yeah whereas like you guys have your time at night where it's like this is our intentional time so it's like we have to be yeah figuring out where do we put this in the middle of our day

But I think it's good that you break away to go work out. And then Matthew does work. And even though he's in the house, he is breaking away. He's kind of doing some things on his own. So I think it's healthy. And I think it's healthy once in a while that you do something with some guy friends. But it does have to be on the calendar. You know, like with you guys having so much. It has to be written down. It has to be on the phones. Or it won't happen. And you've gone to Nashville to do some recordings. So that's breaking away from family. Yeah. Do you guys have like a weekly date night that you have planned?

every Thursday you do something? Well, we watch like The Voice. That's kind of our thing to do. We go on dates either Friday or Saturday going on a date. We love to go to Joey B's and sit outside with the fire pits and everything. That's where Josh used to work. It feels like you're on vacation. Speaking of Missouri, do you think you'll ever move out of Missouri? I know. They're talking about all these home renovations and we're like,

I'm like, wait a second. Are you going to leave that house? Sell that thing. Because all of your grandkids are in Arizona. Well, we'll see. Someday. I really like the four seasons. I like the green grass. I like seeing the deer in my backyard. I like our house. And they make fun of me about the deer. The green grass. He sends me pictures of the deer about every other week. I'm like, Dad, I get it. You have deer in your backyard. Squirrels, rabbits.

Birdies. Hummingbirds. I hated those deer. When I was a seven-year-old, I was trying to grow a garden and they kept eating all my land. They ate all my tomatoes. They ate all my potatoes. All my potatoes. All my potatoes. The potatoes. No, there was a couple summers. Yeah, he really did work hard. You were like a little farmer. Yeah, now you use my garden as like a dumping ground for all of your grass clippings.

Actually, I grew cannas and elephant ears in it this year. No way. Because the deer don't like cannas and elephant ears. I learned that those plants... He's became a plant and a bird man. Those plants are not appealing to the deer. He's a plant man.

But yeah, I got like four or five hummingbird feeders and it's fun to watch them. He just sits out there and watches his hummingbird. Is that scary? For me, like I'm 25 and when I turned 25, I'm like, oh frick, I'm a quarter of the way to a hundred. Like my life is not infinite. And so is that scary to be in your fifties and think, okay, now I'm having grandkids and

I don't know. You just realize my life doesn't last forever. Like I have a time clock on this earth. So is that freaky at all with do I stay in St. Louis? Do we move? Do we do part-time in Arizona and part-time in Missouri? Because that's what a lot of snowbirds do.

What have you guys thought about that? Well, we're not trying to pressure you. No, no. We will always come back and visit. Yeah, we will. No, I totally, especially Josh now moving on and you guys having kids and it's really weird. It's fortunate and unfortunate. At my job, when someone passes, we get an email and, you know, just to show the visitation and if you want to send a card or go to the, you know, and

I mean, like every other week, someone in their 50s is passing. And, you know, we're 57 and 59. I don't care. And, you know, whatever. And so that's kind of when I've stepped back and I'm like, I've always been a saver. I've always been saving for a rainy day and always waiting to enjoy this or enjoy that. And I'm like...

I'm going to start enjoying things. Like, you know, we've came here a lot out here a lot for us because we're always, we're so conservative and saving our money and everything. But I'm like,

What else are we living for if it's not for our kids and our grandkids? Like, I want to... If they'll have us, I want to go out there and see them. We'll always have you. Yes. But I know someday, if you guys stay here, we will definitely be coming. It's just... You know, we have a lot of friends. I have my group of women Bible study. John does. And we just... And our couples. And we just... We have our people, right? But...

You're our favorite people. It's just that... We're the favorite kids? No, our kids are our favorite people and our grandkids. Not me, not Caleb and Abigail. Our children. But anyway, it's...

It's going to be hard. It's a little easier now with the technology to keep up with your family and friends. And it's fun to watch you guys do this podcast or Instagrams. So I just feel like I'm getting a snippet of what you're doing every day. And I'm almost getting more insight as what you're doing than if I was even out here. Because you're filming so much that I'm saying, oh my gosh. That's sick.

I didn't realize that this is so important to you. I think that's weird. The things that you've done and things that make you laugh, like the interview of you interviewing Caleb and Abigail. Yeah. There's a lot of insight that I learned by watching those videos. It was fun. That's hilarious. Yeah. So we're talking about things in that interview that you wouldn't have heard about. Well, we knew a lot about... We really need to communicate better with your parents. I know. Well, some of the stuff you just don't...

Because it's the girls to us. Yeah. You know, with the birth. We learned some of the details. She was talking about how she was scared that she could have died. And being there alone so long. I didn't know that. I didn't know that stuff until the podcast. I didn't realize that she was that fearful in what was going on. And she probably doesn't want to go there and talk about it because it's very scary. Yeah. So that kind of stuff, you know, you see what somebody went through without having to have them address it and bring up those hurts again. But I'd rather be in person. Yeah.

Yeah, but that didn't allow me to learn about what she went through and how scary it was for her. Because you were crying. And I was crying watching you cry. I was going to ask if you cried. Everybody was crying. Why is it that dad's the emotional one and you're not, mom? And I'm just like you. I get it from you. I'm not emotional. Because she's mean. Okay.

You don't have to visually show it to mean that you're not hurt inside. You don't have to cry. I'm hurting inside, but that doesn't mean I have to show it. Do you fight the tears or they're just not... I cannot fathom not being an emotional person. I don't understand. I think...

I think since I was raised, my dad was pretty tough and we were all girls at the time when I was home. It was always like, you know, you shouldn't cry, tough it up and stuff like be tough. And so that was like considered a weakness, which is sad. That's not right. I mean, but that's how I was raised. You know what I mean? So that's just kind of how I am. Are your sisters emotional?

They're more so than me, but I'm the oldest. I think it was the firstborn kind of, you know, suck it up for the family, you know, whatever. But I mean, John's the teary one. Oh my gosh. I hate it. I hate being emotional. When my dad died, I was asked to be the one that would speak on his funeral. So when I got up there, I started off with a little joke. I thought, okay, if I can get her to laugh, it'll help me get through this. So I said, and I'm serious. There's two things I hate to do in front of people.

people. And I said to cry is one and the other one is to throw up. And I hope I can get through this without doing either one. So that's how I started off. So people kind of giggled and then I got into it and it was just tough to talk about somebody you love and care for so much and are now gone. You're never going to see them again.

Oh, gosh. That's horrible. Yeah. So anyway, I'm just emotional, and I guess I become more emotional as I get older. Because you used to not be as much. Yeah, and I don't know what it is. As you get older, you're getting more emotional? I think so. Softy. My cousin told me before he died, he says, I think it's just as you get more experiences, you become a little more vulnerable, and you have more experiences. My cousin Chuck's mom died, my Aunt Ruth. I called up to share my thoughts and feelings, and I couldn't even get the words out. I was crying.

I was just tough. Here I was calling to console him. And I'm like, that happens to me. Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. And you're at a funeral and you're going to see somebody and you're walking through. Sometimes I don't even know the family that well. And I'm like getting choked up. It's like, this is somebody I barely know. And I'm getting, but it's tough when you see other people cry. That means you're an empath. Yeah. Isn't that what people say?

Or at least empathetic. I don't know if you're empath. My dad's definitely empathetic. That's me. Like people I will go visit to like send my regards if someone's passed and then they end up consoling me and I'm just so mortified. I will not.

I'm sorry. I can't control this. This episode is sponsored by Nutrafol. Hair thinning impacts a lot of us. In fact, over half of us will experience hair thinning. I didn't even know that. It's not only common, it's very normal. So join the thousands of people who are doing something about their hair thinning with Nutrafol. My mom's dad was bald and I'm pretty sure that gets passed down to me. So I'm probably going to go bald. It's interesting how it's the mom's dad.

I can already see like a little bit going out. That's actually why I started taking Nutrafol because that too, the hair thinning thing. Yeah, your hair has been thinning just a little bit. I don't really notice it, but Matt's very insecure about it. But I also can say that my hair is thinning because if you've seen our shower wall anytime recently, I just have an art of

my hair that falls off. Actually, it's crazy. There's so much hair on the wall in our shower. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement. It's clinically proven to improve hair growth, visible thickness, and strength. Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code UNPLANNED.

Find out why over 4,000 healthcare professionals recommend Nutrafol for healthier hair. Nutrafol.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Promo code unplanned. That's Nutrafol.com. Promo code unplanned. Now back to the episode. I know mom, we were talking about Abigail and how she felt like she might be close to death when she was giving birth this year. And I think you had a similar experience when you were giving birth to Caleb, my older brother in 1996. What...

Tell me about that because I'm sure you probably could relate listening to the podcast. You were probably freaking out, probably really scared when you're giving birth to, was he, was he 10 pounds? Was he over 10 pounds? 10 pounds, four ounces. Wow. Yeah. And she had a vein coming out of her forehead. Yeah.

Pushing so hard. I didn't see that. Oh, my gosh. I was like, and they had the suction cup out and forceps. I'm like, is my son going to be okay? They don't use those anymore, I don't think, any of that. Is this going to be okay? Am I going to lose him? Is he going to be born with birth defects? And stuff like that happens. I don't know when they decide to do a C-section. Oh, my gosh. I was scared to death. Why did they not decide to do a C-section? I don't know. We're young and stupid. We didn't know this was our first child. We don't go...

We don't go like, when did you do a C-section? You know what I mean? And you guys didn't have the internet? How did you learn about any of this stuff? Did you just talk to your friends? You had to go to classes. You had to go to birthing classes. And you just have to have faith in the system and your doctor. And faith in God. And the nurses. Yeah. But if things don't... This is not supposed to be a perfect world, so we're not going to get out of this thing without having challenges. Okay, so...

I know I knew he was big, but I didn't know how big they just said they thought he was over nine pounds. You know, Josh, they told me they thought he was over 10 pounds. They did know. Yeah. But anyway, it was my water broke. So I said, thank you, God, because I was thinking I wouldn't know. I was afraid I wouldn't know, you know, because they said happening every five minutes for an hour long, you know, all these crazy things. And like, so I'm thankful my water broke and got there.

Were you full term? Yes. I was just a few days before. Okay. And...

uh you know that whole story i had him a day before audrey yeah my cousin we had a car phone i can't believe that john had like a car phone i know we called cindy that's so weird it was a built-in car phone but the technology it wasn't as good as it was i can't believe i can't think of a world without smartphones oh no weird oh no so a car phone was that was cool it was like a thing in the car built in yeah so you called your sister on your car because

She was supposed to deliver before me. She was due before me. Okay. And so she was already past her date. So they were going to induce her on Tuesday. And this is Sunday night. My water broke and I'm calling her at like 11 PM. And she knew, why would I be calling at 11 PM? She goes, you are not headed to the hospital. I'm like, yes. And she goes, and I'm the oldest and she's second. She's like, you just could not let me beat you in one thing.

Why can't you let me win at one thing? You're competitive. I am very competitive. When we play family games on family game night, you want to beat everybody. That's why I just sit back and don't play. Even if that means breaking the rules sometimes. I don't break the rules. When you disclosed to your mom that we're going to have a baby, and then right after that, your sister disclosed that she was going to have a baby, your mom was in big time shock. And then here it is, fast forward, I don't know how many years later, 25 years later,

you and your brother both disclosed you're going to have babies about the same time. And that was, it's on our little video frame in our kitchen where you guys disclose the fact and Griffin's got a baby brother. And then they all looked at each other. It's like, you said it again and it was unbelievable. And then you come into Thanksgiving, uh,

was it two years ago, announcing that you're gonna have a baby and then announcing that you're gonna have another baby the same day as Caleb and Abigail. - And Christmas this year. - Well that's why we did it at the same time 'cause we knew the story that you guys had with you and your sister being pregnant. - Oh, okay. - So we thought how cool is this that, yeah, 27 years later this is happening all over again. Or I guess last year, it had been 26 years last year. - Yeah, yeah. - So Griffin and CJ are three weeks apart?

Something like that. Two or three weeks apart. So back to me. Back to you almost. Not that it's about me, but...

Yeah, so I had pushed for hours. I had an epidural, but they say after a while, okay, now we want you to start pushing. I could not lift this leg because it felt like, I don't want to be too graphic for people that are going to have babies still, but it felt like someone was stabbing me with a knife, like right here, every time this leg got lifted. So dad had to stand on this side and lift my leg up.

Every time I pushed because I couldn't do it. I wanted him out, but it hurt too bad. I didn't know if it was a boy or girl. So I'm holding her hand, talking to her through it. And being in medical sales, I was in surgery a lot. And I just wanted to see what was going on. So I stick a peek. And she's, will you focus on me? I didn't want him down there. I'm like, pay attention. So it hurt. Yeah, pretty bad. And yeah, like he said, they had the forceps and this thing that looks like a toilet plunger.

It looks like a plunger that they suck. Pulling a kid up. And three people got on top of me. The doctor were pushing on me. It was like...

I was like, oh my gosh. Did they stick the forceps up there to pull Caleb out of the head? No, his head started to come out, but he wasn't, like the shoulders weren't coming out. So they're like pulling on his head and trying to move his shoulders. Oh, and the other thing, they had a team in there for him because he had swallowed. Yeah, the, what is it called? Marcosum. Marconium? What is it called? Amniotic fluid? No, no, no. It was the poop. There's a better name for it.

So all you people in the medical world, sorry. It rhymes with Marconium, I think. I can't think of the word right now. Yeah, yeah. Isn't that terrible? We look silly. Watch the comments, but we don't know how to spell it. And so there was a whole team around his little bed when he came out, too, because I had to take that out, you know, so he didn't get that in his lungs. Anyway, so it all worked out fine. But yeah, I went to weigh him, and he was 10-4. And yeah, that was rough. But...

And then they had like this girl that was studying to be a nurse. I couldn't go to the restroom. I kept trying. So then I had to get the catheter and she was practicing and couldn't. And I'm like, can we finally just get someone that knows what they're doing? I'm very sorry. Yeah, you told me she was sticking you with a needle to like draw your blood and like run tests on you? Yeah. Or what exactly happened? Well, to do the catheter. Oh, she's trying to put the catheter in and she couldn't put it in. Because she was like practicing. You know, she was. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm like, I can't handle any more pain. Can you please get somebody? So here it is. Meconium. Meconium. Aspiration syndrome occurs when a newborn breathes a mixture of meconium and amniotic fluid into the lungs around a time of delivery. M-E-C-O-N-I-U-M. So meconium. I don't know how they knew that. This is like when we're at dinner as a family and you need to do something and then you go on your phone and we're like, what is dad doing? I like to be informed. And then five minutes later you're like, meconium. Yeah.

Was it traumatic enough that you were scared for the second baby? Obviously not, because Matt was 19 months later. I guess that's the blessing that you kind of forget. Not forget, but it's not as bad.

And it was also wonderful. We really weren't wanting to have one that quick, but we thought we might have some challenges because a lot of our friends, it took a while for them to have their second baby. I don't know why. We're like, well, we might as well try. But we are blessed that we look at each other and get pregnant. Like every one of you were the first time, the first try. So we got pregnant the first try.

And you were super easy because he was 9'2". Compared to 10'4". Oh, yeah. So the breast was a breeze. And it was only 19 months. Okay. Yeah. I won't say what I normally would say. What? What would you? You said that I was the runt, right? You came out easy. No, I said I've had worse bowel movements. Oh, my gosh. Crazy.

She did everything for you that it's just so hard to fathom. That gave me a lot of respect for you guys. Going through raising two boys, I realized how much you did for me. And I don't think I quite have expressed that. Yeah, you tell them. Yeah, I don't know. You guys are amazing parents. You guys did so much for me and my brothers and me.

I don't know if I've properly thanked you for everything you did raising me. It's about darn time. Nursing you for 14 months. 14 months? Caleb, 14 months. I didn't know you did 14. I thought you did a year. Yeah, you're getting on the school bus and it's like, come on. He's got to get on the bus. I don't know where 14... Caleb just did 14 and then I was pregnant with you. So then I was like, oh, I have to... Like you were, you know, you have to stop.

No. And for the women that can't and it's hard and like I know one of my sisters, it was a difficult thing and they wouldn't latch and, you know, don't beat yourself up. And but I thought it was going to be weird and like, I don't know if I can do this, but I ended up loving it and enjoying it.

And because my mind kind of never shuts off and is always working, it was a time that I could relax and just enjoy my time with a baby and not feel guilty that I wasn't doing something. Were you working part-time while I was a baby or did you completely go full-time being a mom by then? Yeah. So your whole until Josh was born, which was four years later, I worked part-time. So those two days that I went into work, I pumped. Okay. I went full-time.

It was so weird back then. It was in a restroom. Like, they didn't even have a room for me. But it was the handicap restroom, and it was big, and there was a desk, like, and a chair for me to pump in there. Wow. So I did that with Caleb and you, you know. Were you treated fairly as a mom who was trying to work? Like, did you feel as if you had any loopholes to go through or roadblocks as someone who's trying to work and also be a mom? I think, especially back then, it was...

all engineers, it was mostly all men. I think they were respectful. The only weird thing was having to be in the bathroom. And now it's not that way. There's a real room for a couple of the moms, right where I did in this bathroom next door is a little room for these two women on my floor. So that's awesome. And now they get maternity leave and there's actually paternity leave. Like I had to use my sick leave and vacation.

Wow. Like I wasn't sick, you know, and, but that's okay. I don't, I'm not mad. I'm glad things have gotten better, you know, for women today. So did you guys have any troubles postpartum? Did you experience any postpartum depression or did you, um, have any challenges that you remember from that time after having kids and trying to figure things out afterward? She, no, she did. I think he did a good job. I know we were very aware of it. There was,

times and she'd get headache once in a while but I'm sure there was probably some times when you were sad and I think it had to do with a lack of sleep had a lot to do with it because there's a few times that I remember you were just having to push through and she's always been very very tough and amazing about not complaining and you know pushing through so but I think it had to do with lack of sleep at least that's the way I think Caleb I got the infection with the milk

Oh, mastitis. Yes. I believe that was with Caleb. And then with Josh, I had the spinal migraine. Yeah, we're leaving a hospital almost to the parking lot and a headache was just terrible. She goes, there's something, I can't go home like this. So it was like Thanksgiving Day we were headed out. Yeah, yeah. And we went back. They had to do something called a blood patch where they take a little bit of blood out and put it in your back and the headache goes away. And that's what they had to do for.

you but I had three babies you know I had three kids so I did Abby have that too did they do that okay I know Abby gets migraines a lot kind of like you do no but realize I haven't I don't know why but that's something that actually got better with pregnancy oh good I didn't get hardly any migraines the entire time I was pregnant both times wow you're back to getting them again I think I think because you had one today you need to get pregnant again oh my gosh oh sorry

Yeah. But then Josh, even though he was 10, five, it wasn't as bad as Caleb because that, you know, me and my first, but Josh, I went into the doctor four weeks before his birth and

And I'm thankful the doctor was gone and the nurse practitioner saw me and she just got off maternity leave. And I walked in and I always look like Santa Claus. It's just like all here. And she said, oh my gosh, that baby is in the tens. And this was a Friday.

And I'm like, you're kidding. And she's like, no, she did all these different measurements and everything. And she's like, yeah, it's in the tens. I want you here Monday to see the doctor. And I'm almost positive you will be induced on Tuesday, the next day. And so on Monday when I was there, the doctor's like, you're not in the tens. She's crazy, all this stuff. Then he looked at the chart and

did some measurements he goes he's in the tens um i want you here tomorrow so we came in he's three and a half weeks early josh they um took the fluid to make sure his lungs were developed enough that's all they did was test that we got a call and they said they're developed come back in we're gonna induce and then he was born that night so you're 36 and a half weeks yes

Wow. Yeah. Crazy. He just got back home with his uncle. Josh, my brother's taking Griffin on a walk through the 10 five. Yeah. So I'm also so curious because back in your day, um,

Like, what did you guys do for birth control? Because IUDs weren't really a thing, right? Matt asks his parents everything. Oh, that's why you sleep in separate bedrooms. No, no, no. Separate bedrooms. No, but didn't you tell me, like, when I first mentioned an IUD to your mom, didn't you say that back in your day there was a big scare with IUDs? Well, she thought you said IDE. Stop it. Improved Explosive Device. Oh, that's IED. That would be an IED. Funny joke, Dad. That was good. You're wrong. You're wrong.

I think it was more like tampons and things had caused different issues with women. Okay. Oh yeah, you, no, your generation didn't use tampons. No. Which like when Abby used tampons, I was like, oh, my mom, like I, when I was a kid and I was cleaning your bathroom and cleaning those hairy floors, I always saw your, your, all your. You bring this up like you did

Like you did it daily. All your feminine products would be like next to all of our cleaning supplies. And so I was like, oh, this is a pad. Moms use pads. And so Abby using a tampon, I'm like, this is a completely foreign thing to me. Yeah. Like a tampon. I guess my mom scared me to death, you know, just because of her generation. You know, we learned from our moms. But yeah. And then I tried the pill a few times, but it made me feel really bad. I just didn't feel myself and felt. I felt fine.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but after three boys, dad always said, I will take care of it. There's no, you never once thought me too. Maybe we want a fourth. Well, I did. And he said, no, no, no. We did. Well, actually after the two, kind of like you guys, when you were exhausted, when Matt was born, dad was like, I think this is enough. I'm like, Oh no, no, no, no. You promised three. You promised. I said, let's just give it a time.

Give it time. And you did. You gave it a decent amount of time. Yeah, four years. They're four years apart. Yeah. Well, I said eight. I was like, the other day, I was like, Abby. He's like, double that. I was like, you know what I just realized? But we started later. We could have children in our 30s. Maybe we could have another kid eight years from now. So that's what I was thinking. I think it's better to have them closer in age than have them that far apart. Well, that's what I thought too until I had to. And then I was like, oh, I can't do this.

I think it's easier as time goes by because when Kayla was born, he needed a lot of attention. And then you were born and it was tough until...

18 months. You got to be about three, two, three years old and you guys were entertaining each other and playing with one another. And it took a lot of pressure off mom. Yeah. But then dad went and got the chop chop. Um, we actually went to see the doctor right after Josh was born and he said, he got the chop chop. I was like, I cannot hear what you're saying. You call that chop chop? She does. And, but what,

How long do we have to wait? A year? Yeah. They want you to wait about a year to make sure the baby is a year old before you go through the vasectomy because if something happens, then you might want to have another child. And if you are bad with the vasectomy. They said, we know you're not replacing it, but some people are so sad. It's just what they want. So we don't want to rush into this. They asked me when I got my C-section if they wanted to tie my tubes. Wait, actually? Yeah. They said I had to sign the paperwork and I was like, wait. I was like, no. Absolutely.

not do that. That's crazy. But then they said that because I'm so young that even if I said yes, they would have really, really pushed back on it. Oh, yeah. Because you're not in your right mind either. I know, but isn't that crazy? I thought about that with you getting an IUD again. I thought, well, maybe I could just get a vasectomy because they are reversible, but I did some research and it's not 100% accurate though. So you can be super painful.

It is? We have a friend that did. Oh, gosh. Oh, painful to reverse, but not to get it done. Reverse, not the original. Oh, okay, reverse. My friend, he had it done. It's like being kicked in the groin by a horse. Oh, my gosh. I have no sympathy. I'm sorry. Me neither. Sorry. No.

No, just wait. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. But no, you will do it. It's the least you can do. Oh my gosh, of course I'll do it. I still can't believe the whole concept of birth is just so crazy to me. It's just so... Matt's scarred more than me. I'm so thankful for Abby doing that because I saw everything happen. And yeah, what are your favorite memories of being parents? Favorite memories of us?

I think just seeing you guys interact with each other and then watching some of those old videos of how you reacted. And I think when we took the pacifiers away from you guys and...

and we had the binky fairy come and take the pacifiers away and having a flyer at the, I think it was like Easter time, saying that the binky fairy came, took the pacifiers, and you got these gifts. And you guys bought into that, and that was fun. And just, I don't know, just watching how you guys interact with each other in some of the videos, it was just fun. I think your best memories, I think, are probably...

when the kids are about two to about seven, but then it's just different fun things, you know? Different phases. The binky fairy, he's real, right? Yeah. Just making sure because we didn't talk about that one. That was mainly for Caleb. He just would not stop with the binky.

But it was fun watching you. I was reliving this when you were in a show at the Muny Sound of Music and I was scared to death and you had a solo and that show is the largest outdoor theater, I think in the country, right? The Muny? Yeah, it's the largest outdoor musical theater in North America. And here I am, I don't know, about 15 rows from center watching you on stage and performing and

And you were a nervous wreck.

And, I don't know, that was a very proud moment to see you up there on stage having learned all those lines and perform and just knocking it out of the ballpark in pain. And you just loved it. And I was just very proud of you. Something you told me a couple months ago was you miss when me and my brothers would hide in the kitchen when you came home from work. Oh, my gosh. It was so fun. And we'd jump out and scare you, and you pretended to be scared every single time.

Um, and now with Griffin, when I, when I play with him and I jump out and scare him and he giggles and laughs, like I can't help but think about that same memory that you had with us. We had like this half wall. So yeah, you could hear you coming in the garage and we'd hide behind, you guys would hide behind the wall. And mom coordinated that. She goes, Oh, dad's home. So hide and surprise him. And you'd come out and it was so fun. And you blink and they're,

6'2", 6'3". I'm so sad. But now I'm enjoying my grandchildren and enjoy seeing you guys together. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, we're blessed. I think being a parent is going to make me more emotional. I think it already has. Oh, yeah. It has. He started getting a little tired. Atta boy. But I'm telling you, you'll get more emotional as a grandparent. And that's...

That's the thing my sister asked me. She said, I don't get it. Like all of our friends that are having grandkids are like, it's so good. I said, well, it's because as a parent, even though you're playing, you're thinking, I need to make dinner. I need to fold this laundry. I need to do this. You're not fully just there, you know, especially me. And it's hard to shut my brain off, but yeah,

As a grandparent, I don't have to do anything else. I can just play and do what I want. You know what I mean? I don't have to make dinner. I don't have to do the laundry or whatever. So that, it's so awesome. Dirty diaper. Here you go. It's wonderful. Well, you guys are amazing parents. You guys are really, really good parents. Thank you for always being there. Thank you for having us on your podcast. Thank you for coming on. You guys are the most supportive. You guys are like the most supportive people of anybody for us. And you guys are the most supportive people of anybody for us.

And even when we, even we had like 100, I think we had like 10. They were sharing our videos on Facebook. You guys shared our videos on Facebook and we had like 10 subscribers on YouTube. That bumped you up to like 15. It was just so sweet. And also just think about how different each of your boys are. They're vastly different, all three of them. Yeah. And you support each of them where they're at so well and just encourage them and yeah.

You're just – you're willing to talk about anything with them and just always – You guys also always seek advice from other people and are very humble in that way and just –

Thanks. Really good. Especially you, dad, with advice. I think you've always been very humble in asking for how you could be better, how you could be a better dad. Oh, yeah. You ask that all the time. Yeah, to your kids. It's just an honest question. I really respect that, that you don't try to pretend that you have it all figured out. And I think that's something that I learned as an adult. It's almost as if

there's really no real adults in this world. It's as if the adults are really just the bigger kids and we, we act like we have it all figured out, but we don't, you know? Well, we made a lot of mistakes for sure, but yeah, I do think the one thing we did pretty good, like you said, um,

I had my three, me and my two sisters, the three of us are the same age difference of as our three boys. Like exactly. And my dad meant it well, but like wanting us all to be the same, do this, do this. And I was like, oh, we want them to be individuals and their strengths. And they all three have different strengths and they're great. So they can all be who they want to be. And we'll support that. I feel like that's the greatest goal as a parent is to just like,

help your child find their own strengths and just how to build those up. - And love that.

So we're videotaping this the day before Thanksgiving. So we have a lot to be thankful for. So thank you for being great parents. And thank you for all the things that you do for us. And I'm looking over here so I don't get emotional because I do that a lot. And we couldn't be happier. And I'm so blessed to be out here in Phoenix visiting with the two of you. And this will probably air sometime right before Christmas. So Merry Christmas, everybody. We...

Love our family. We love this opportunity to share our times together. And stay here. Let us know if my parents should start a podcast. Maybe they'll have to. I think I'd get canceled in two days.

You're too emotional. Well, if you guys haven't already gotten your What's Up Dudes merch, we'll have it in the description. It's also available. I think there's the shop on YouTube. If you're watching on YouTube, you can literally just go right underneath the video. It's right there. And it's literally right there. And it's also at unplannedpodcast.com. Did you know that? We have our own website now, unplannedpodcast.com. I heard you on a call say that yesterday. Isn't that cool? We love you guys. And as always, three, two, one. Peace out, dudes.