Larry Riegel Part 2: Dusting off the Case
59:23 Share

They're starting to call around, and Susie makes the trip over. And I think the mother ends up going over a few days later. But needless to say, there were some suspicions right then and there that she had a hand in his disappearance. Whoever is close to that person is going to do all they can to try to find it. Every situation I've ever seen did that. There was never any suggestion that she had done anything to try to figure out where he was at.

He's just gone. That story makes no sense. It doesn't hold water. I almost felt like I got to know Larry, all of the different people I talked to and their descriptions of him. It's just not possible given his personality to just wander off and disappear. I don't believe he's capable of it. Larry was not that kind.

The only other explanation is you get beamed up by aliens and I'm not going to buy that one. No. I will not believe that people just disappear. Something happened to them. It's just the laws of physics. I think she's extremely accomplished at keeping her mouth shut. Most people aren't. Most people have that little voice inside that says, "You did wrong and you need to get that out." I don't think she has that voice.

Last week, we brought you part one of Larry Riegel's story. You learned about Larry's life, his career, and his sudden disappearance from Yakima, Washington around Christmas in 2009. On Christmas morning, Larry spoke with his mother, and later that afternoon, he had a conversation with his son, Brian, around 4 p.m. But when Brian called back later that evening, Larry didn't answer.

Larry's family had plans for a holiday gathering the day after Christmas, but when Larry failed to show up on the evening of December 26, his family grew deeply concerned. It wasn't until they pieced together the timeline later on that they realized the last known interaction with Larry was that 4 p.m. phone call with Brian.

At the time, Larry was living with his girlfriend, Ladina. But when family members began asking questions, they were met with a series of contradictory, shifting stories. Ladina claimed that Larry had left for the coast, even though Larry had never shown much interest in traveling there. His family knew something was wrong. Larry would have never missed Christmas with his family, especially without letting them know. Determined to find answers, Larry's sister Susan went directly to Ladina.

What she heard was a confusing mix of bizarre and inconsistent tales that didn't seem to lead anywhere. At the time, Susan couldn't make sense of it, but over the years, some of those details began to take on new meaning. The family launched their own search for Larry, trying to find anyone who had seen or heard from him. But despite their efforts, no solid leads emerged.

As the weeks passed, Larry's family only felt more desperate. In January, they decided to go to the police and report Larry missing. However, when one of Larry's sisters tried to file the report, she was told they couldn't report Larry missing. Why? Because on January 5th, many days after Larry's Christmas disappearance,

Ladina had gone to the police, not to report Larry missing. Instead, she was claiming that Larry had returned to their home and assaulted her on January 4th. This accusation dramatically altered law enforcement's perception of Larry's character and disappearance. Authorities believed he was on the run, but to those who knew him best, the story didn't add up.

Larry's family continued to insist that this wasn't like him at all. Though the Yakima Police Department did eventually take a missing persons report, not much was done to look for Larry. Years later, frustrated by the lack of progress and the mounting inconsistencies, Larry's family demanded a meeting with the new police chief.

This meeting marked a pivotal moment in the case. A new investigator, Nolan Wentz, was assigned to take a fresh look at Larry's disappearance. He listened carefully to the family's concerns and made it his mission to uncover the truth about what happened to Larry Regal.

For years, it seemed like Larry's case had been left to gather dust, forgotten and cold. But now, with a new investigator on the case, there was hope that the truth would finally be uncovered. With fresh eyes and new determination, what was once a dead-end investigation was starting to show signs of life. I'm Marissa, and from Wondery, this is episode 487 of The Vanished, part two of Lawrence Regal's story, Dusting Off the Case.

Here's a tip for growing your business. Get the VentureX Business Card from Capital One and start earning unlimited double miles on every purchase. That's right. With unlimited double miles, the more your business spends, the more miles you earn. Plus, the VentureX Business Card has no preset spending limit, so your purchasing power can adapt to meet your business needs. The VentureX Business Card also includes access to over 1,000 airport lounges.

Just imagine where the VentureX business card from Capital One can take your business. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms and conditions apply. Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness. If your dog could talk, they'd warn you about what's lurking in their bowl. Mass-produced kibble isn't just unappetizing.

It could be a crime against canine health, mysterious byproducts, unpronounceable preservatives, and who knows what fillers. Ollie is here to crack the case on pet nutrition with fresh human-grade meals, made with the highest quality ingredients. No mystery meats, no artificial junk.

Just real, minimally processed food made in U.S. kitchens. All you have to do is fill out Ollie's 30-second quiz, and they'll create a customized meal plan for your pup's weight, activity level, and other health info. I recently tried out Ollie, and my dogs love it. Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food.

Head to ollie.com slash vanished, tell them all about your dog, and use code VANISH to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, they'll offer a happiness guarantee on the first box, so if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash vanished, and enter code VANISH to get 60% off your first box.

Last week, we explored how the initial investigation into Larry Regal's disappearance had struggled to gain momentum. From the outset, authorities believed that Larry had simply walked away from his life. This theory was largely based on a report made by his girlfriend, Ladina, approximately 12 days after he was last seen. She told the Yakima Police Department that Larry had returned briefly, the two had a physical altercation, and that Larry had walked out, not only leaving behind all of his belongings, but his entire life.

Based on this account, investigators concluded that Larry had voluntarily vanished. To Larry's family, this explanation never made sense. They were seeing red flags everywhere, but their concerns were dismissed. The lack of urgency and follow-up left them feeling powerless and deeply frustrated. Years later, a new investigator, now retired Detective Nolan Wentz, was brought in to take a fresh look at Larry's case. Here's retired investigator Nolan Wentz with more.

See, I got into this years after the fact. I was a lieutenant at the time, but I cut my teeth being a detective in major crimes, homicide cases. And at the time, Susie and her family came in not real happy with the results they had gotten from the police department beforehand. Kind of slept it off.

I mean, he's been gone and wanted something done. And at the time, I was a lieutenant and I was doing internal affairs investigations. So they talked to the chief. They talked to the captain. They handed it off to me. Here you go. See what you can find. The longer the time goes, the less you're going to have to dig up and find.

We know that Larry spoke to his mother on Christmas morning and his son Brian around 4 p.m. on Christmas Day. Brian called his father back later that night and was unable to reach him. If something happened to Larry, it must have happened after that 4 p.m. phone call with his son. Investigator Wentz shared what he uncovered in regards to the timeline of events on December 25, 2009, the last day Larry Regal was confirmed to be alive.

Christmas Day was the last time anybody talked to him. Unless you talk to Ladina, and that's another story. They had made plans he was going to get with the family the following day for their Christmas. That's when they were going to celebrate. His mother had taken a package over for him Christmas Day, and it was a sweatsuit, so she was pretty detailed about what she gave him. And he called her to thank her for the gift and talk about their plans for the next day.

He was living with Ladina. Ladina and her sister had gone. Apparently, this was kind of an annual thing on Christmas Day where they would go and visit the cemetery where her mother was at and be gone for a while. And Larry was actually the one cooking dinner. From what I understand, he was a little upset because they hadn't come back and he was concerned that dinner was all going to be ruined because they were going to be late.

In part one, Susan revealed how she had to relentlessly pressure the initial investigator just to request Larry's cell phone records. And she even had to cover the cost herself. This was another blow for Larry's family, made worse when they learned the records had been requested for the wrong number, causing critical delays in the investigation. But when Investigator Wentz finally reviewed the correct records, something unexpected surfaced, a new detail that would send the investigation in a completely new direction.

I got a hold of Larry's phone records, and I know that he made a couple calls to a guy by the name of Don Martin, who was actually living in a house down in the Yakima Valley on the Indian Reservation that belonged to Larry, and owed him a bunch of money for back rent.

Larry probably wanted money from him, decided that he was going to make a trip down there, and that was the last anybody ever saw him. Now, I could say that his cell phone did ping on the cell towers going that direction, but there were never any more calls. I don't think it died then, but I know it was never used again. The only time you're going to ping is if somebody's actually using it, and it was never used, period.

Remember from Part 1, Susan mentioned the family farm, which their mother owned. Larry had made an arrangement with their mother that he would help her financially in exchange for the farm being left to him in her will. But after Larry vanished, something strange happened. His girlfriend Ladina suddenly seemed to take an unusual interest in the farm. At the time, Susan couldn't quite put her finger on it, especially when she spoke with Ladina just days after Larry's disappearance. But now a crucial link had emerged.

Larry had been living with Ladina while renting out the farm to Don Martin, the same man Larry had spoken to multiple times on the day he disappeared. Here's Susan again with more background on Don Martin.

There had been three or four phone calls with the tenant. And what we found out was that the tenant stopped paying rent for the last six months, but my brother was still giving my mom the $500 a month for her house payment. And

And we heard one of these phone messages that my brother left on the tenant's phone. Oh, he was mad. He was really angry with this guy. He needed that money. He wanted that money so he could move out. And she's the one that brought him to Larry to live out in the farm. They knew each other from one of the taverns. But he was an older guy. I don't think there was anything romantic between them, but there was something romantic.

some kind of connection there with them. And this guy, we found out later, he used to work for the YPD. He was a dispatch person and he was fired.

but he had a criminal background for violence. He got annoyed with his neighbors who had doves or pigeons. He got tired of listening to him and he went out with a baseball bat and he killed all of them. I mean, like 30 birds. So he had to get out of Yakima. So that's about the time that Ladina introduced him to my brother and got him moved into the farmhouse. We also found out, so this is out on the Yakima reservation. This

It's a very big reservation, huge. And there's a lot of dead land out there and the farms out in the middle of it. A native family, we had known all our lives. They were neighbors. And the sheriff had been called out the prior fall because they had been exchanging gunfire at each other. Don was shooting at them at their house across the street and they were shooting back.

So we know he had weapons and we know he was violent. I think what happened is that they finished Christmas dinner and Larry told her, get in the car. We're going to go out. I'm going to get my money from Don. And I think that he was shot. I think he was killed out there.

When Investigator Wentz took over the case, one of his first priorities was tracking down Don Martin, a figure who had become increasingly central to the investigation. But by then, Don Martin's health had deteriorated significantly, making it more difficult for Investigator Wentz to obtain clear, reliable information. Still, he pressed forward, knowing that even the smallest detail could help unlock the truth.

Don Martin is an interesting guy. By the time I got to him, Don Martin was an absolute physical disaster. I found him living in a little motor home way out by a pond

out in the sticks. He was physically debilitated completely. I loaded him into my car, took his tackle box full of medications with him, took him to the police department, and I pressured him pretty hard. And the only thing I got out in was some rambling about water, running water,

which made no sense to me whatsoever. He was in such a state that anything I did get out of him would not have been very valid. It wasn't going to really lead to anything. So I ended up picking him back. And he has since died. In fact, everyone that had a connection to this case

is gone except for Ladina. Now, there's also a little byline. I got her phone records as well. And it's interesting. She never explained to any satisfaction what had gone on, but she had a couple of fairly long conversations with Don Martin just a few days after he went missing. And I would love to have been the fly on the wall to hear what was being said. But

But she's not going to tell me. She didn't really have an explanation for that at all. Investigator Wentz was years behind when he finally spoke to Don Martin. But Susan had the opportunity to speak with him before his health had declined. Don Martin may have been one of the last people to have seen and spoken with Larry, though it can't be confirmed that he actually saw Larry. They did speak that day, and cell phone ping data showed Larry's phone traveling in the direction of the farmhouse that Don was renting from Larry.

Don may have had crucial information. Susan's conversation with Don Martin years earlier provided some valuable insights.

When we filed the report on the tent, I stayed that whole week. And that's when I was going up and down the road, going to all these taverns and talking to people. And I drove out to Don Martin and my sister Sandy went with me. He had an answering machine and he played us one of the messages from Larry. That's why I was saying Larry was mad. He wanted his money.

The guy just said, oh, I haven't seen Larry. He hasn't been out here. No, he never came out on Christmas Day or anything. Well, Don also had a pickup truck with a canopy on it. The police never searched that, never did any forensic anything.

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. Growing up was the extent of your financial education along the lines of, money doesn't grow on trees. While true, that cliche didn't teach us much about the saving and budgeting lesson we need in life. Pick up where your parents left off teaching you about money with Greenlight. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families that helps kids learn how to save, invest, and spend wisely. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on kids' spending and saving.

Meanwhile, kids and teens build money confidence and skills in a fun, accessible way, like with games. I've been using Greenlight with my teenagers for years, and I love that it has given them a sense of financial independence while also teaching them the benefits of saving. Greenlight is the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and for families to navigate life together. Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com slash vanished.

That's greenlight.com slash vanish to get started. greenlight.com slash vanished. Once the temperature started rising, I realized I was back in the same worn-out rotation. Same tank, same shorts, same everything. So I gave my daily uniform an upgrade with quints. Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make you feel more put together without even trying. Like 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30.00.

swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. And one of my favorite things about Quince is that they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I ordered some t-shirts from Quince. They're the perfect staple item.

That can go with almost anything, whether you're trying to dress up or dress down. I've found their quality to be amazing, especially for the price. Treat your closet to a little summer glow-up with Quince. Go to quince.com slash vanish for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash vanish to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash vanished

By the time Investigator Wentz made it to the farmhouse where Don Martin had been living when Larry disappeared, a significant amount of time had already passed. Whatever evidence may have once been there was likely long gone. Still, he searched the property carefully and described to us what he found there.

Now, this was quite a while afterwards. There's been so much through there. But this home that Larry had basically grew up in most of the time down in the valley that Don Martin was living in, Don Martin had just basically destroyed that house. I mean, it was a disaster. Right now, it's being lived in by one of Larry's sisters. And they've added on to it and they remodeled the entire place. But this is a real rural area.

farm area. And the home itself was way out in the middle of nowhere, very few homes anywhere near neighbors. None of them are close together at all. So you could do all kinds of things and nobody would ever pay attention. I know that there was a bunch of oil, great big five-gallon can that had been spilled or something on the floor in the house where there is new construction. There had been an area that they had a fire. They would burn garbage and everything else.

But this oil, it would make a really good accelerant to make something burn long and hot. And it was oil that you would have in a big container for tractors. But there was none of that there. Don Martin didn't farm. I don't know if it's transmission oil or hydraulic fluid. It was red in color. But they took some samples of that. And of course, it ended up being oil. But it was spilled on the floor inside the house, which makes no sense at all.

Kind of like somebody trying to cover a crime scene. And there are enough bodies of water. If you're going to get rid of something, a body of water is a great place to do it. You have irrigation canals running all over the place. You also have drainage canals that generally have standing water in them that runs year-round. On the road that they're in, there's a pond, Charlie's Pond, that's right on the intersection.

There's one drainage canal that ends up dumping back into a large canal that's always got water in it all year round. But it's not very far from the house. Whenever somebody does something with a body,

If you have a body to dispose of, transporting a body is really risky. You're not going to go very far because you don't want to be caught with that. This would be a really good spot. Now, we ended up going there. We ended up having a cadaver dog go around. The cadaver dog did hit on this area.

It was interesting watching him work because even just happy-go-lucky running down the edge of the canal and then boom, went straight into the water. Seems kind of curious to me, but I never got a chance to dig that up and there was nothing readily visible. With a drainage canal, you're continually moving silt, plant life and everything else over the top. So if there's something there, you'd have to really dig it up.

Unfortunately, some of that area is still considered spawning ground for sand. And you have to be very careful what you do. Susan shared more about the network of drainage canals near the farmhouse and the challenges they posed during the search for Larry. When she had visited Don Martin early in the investigation, something about those canals pulled at her. She couldn't explain it at the time, but she had a strong feeling that her brother was out there, hidden somewhere in those murky waters.

The way the Yakima Valley water irrigation system works is that water gets pulled out of the Yakima River, kind of on the north end of what they call the lower Yakima Valley. A lot of agriculture and then water.

the reservation is also attached to all of that. So a lot of the crops that are grown are on reservation land. This water flows through a series of canals. It goes into these feeder canals, and then everybody pulls their water off in these different farms. At the end of the valley, up against Toppenish Ridge, which is part of the reservation, there's a huge canal. It

It's called the Marion Drain. All this farm water feeds back into the Marion Drain and it empties back into the Yakima River. The Marion Drain is huge and it flows water year round. And if you go into that canal, you can't crawl up the side. Growing up, cars would go off into that.

people would die because there's no way out. The sides are so steep. That canal is a mile from our farm. The same friend that I had that was a parole officer, Titsap County, has cadaver dogs and she worked with search and rescue. And that's how we got cadaver dogs to come out. But she said in the wintertime,

ground is frozen, can't get access up into the mountain. And she said the most common place to dump bodies are water or in brush along water.

All of that is owned by the Yakima Nation. So we have what we call ditch riders, and they go along these series of canals and they remove debris and clean out for the water to move along. I talked to a couple of them, and they all told me that the Yakima Nation considers the Marion Drain a salmon breeding ground. Therefore, even the ditch riders can't

remove muskrat housing, debris. They try to leave it as pristine as possible for salmon. Now, it's a dumping ground for dead cattle, horses, refrigerators, you name it. So the nation won't even let us go in there. So

So even if we could drop somebody, the sediment coming off of all of these fields, dumping into that canal, probably a couple feet deep at least. And so it's real mucky and stinky, but it does move. And it moves all this back down to the river 40 miles away. What's really strange

This is really odd for me to say this, but on the 11th, when I went out to talk to Don Martin, I drove down to the Marion drain. I parked my car and I stood there on that bridge and I looked at that water and I just really think my brother's there. And that was before any of the cadaver dogs or anybody else said anything. It was the feeling that I had.

The farmhouse owned by Larry's mother was located on the Yakima Reservation, a fact that can sometimes lead to jurisdictional complications. Investigator Wentz explained that while his investigation frequently led him onto reservation land, he often found himself working alongside the Yakima Nation Tribal Police Department in the search for Larry and any evidence that might reveal what happened to him.

They have their own law enforcement, tribal police, whatnot, but I always got along well with them. In fact, they heard stories that there was a body found up while somebody was up hunting deep in the reservation where the only people allowed up there were native. And they took me up there. Of course, we never found anything. And then there was other stories that Larry's body had been gotten rid of by putting him into a hog pen someplace down in the valley. A hog would consume everything, bone and all.

I mean, there were numerous stories like that. Unfortunately, the Yakima Indian Reservation is filled with missing bodies. They're all over. Another detail Susan shared last week was that Larry had purchased a car from a friend and was nearly finished paying it off. After Larry's disappearance, that same friend reported something unusual. Ladina showed up one day and dropped the car off at his home. To investigator Wentz, that moment stood out. Why would Ladina do that?

His car, it was a car he bought from a friend of his. He had been making payments on it. It showed up at the home of the man who he had purchased it from with Ladina saying, Larry's not going to be able to make any more payments on it because he's just not going to be able to do it. Just out of the blue, left it there. That was it. My understanding from the man who he had actually purchased it from, he's only had one or two payments left.

His son, Brian, ended up getting the car and I never got a chance to look at it because it got wrecked. Knowing that there was still some ownership in that car from the other person, you would probably want to get that out of your hair as soon as possible so nobody comes digging around.

Susan recalled an eyewitness account from a neighbor who had seen men removing items from Ladina's property shortly after Larry's disappearance. Investigator Wentz followed up on this tip, working to identify the men in question. He was hoping that they could reveal what was taken, where, and why. Though he was never able to solve that particular piece of the puzzle, it led him to uncover more about Ladina herself.

There was a neighbor across the street, and it's not activity that she saw happening with Larry. She saw it. I mean, it was the following week or whatnot, but a couple of guys that were just loading a bunch of boxes out of the house. I never could track those down. I know that everything Larry had just disappeared. He had a number of...

expensive firearms. He had a old Ford pickup, which wasn't that old to begin with, but she believed that all of his possessions were hers because they had been together. So she would never relinquish anything, even when the family said, well, we'd like to have his truck back. Nope, I'm keeping it. And it just sat there. And as far as I know, it's still sitting there.

I found out that she had a half-brother because somebody was trying to say it was her brother. And I did find him. Interesting story. She apparently approached him, and he has a sister as well, when the father died.

Her biological father, she approached them because she was wanting to get money from his estate. They just told her, we don't know who you are. You need to just leave. And they never dealt with her again. But the commonality with everyone I talked to is that she was interested in what resources that she could get out of somebody. That's consistency.

Investigator Wentz explained that following Larry's disappearance in December 2009, there were multiple reported sightings of Larry. He diligently followed up on each one, but none of them turned out to be credible. Over time, a troubling pattern began to emerge. It started to feel less like coincidence and more like manipulation, as if someone was deliberately trying to mislead the investigation.

These red herrings gave the illusion that Larry was still out there, alive but always one step away from being found.

There were Larry sightings, people saying they saw Larry all over the place. And in fact, I even ran to a couple people saying, this is Larry. And I found these people and they, of course, were not Larry. And it was just amazing. And they were all over the place. He's down at this bar or he's at this restaurant. It was just like somebody was trying to spread a rumor to lend credence to the story they just wandered off.

Then there was the claim Ladina made, many days after an impartial witness had last seen or heard from Larry, that he had returned home and assaulted her. That allegation significantly shifted the course of the investigation. Police viewed it as a possible explanation for Larry's absence, believing he may be intentionally staying off the radar to avoid legal trouble. As a result, they initially refused to take a missing persons report.

Investigator Wentz shared his perspective on that alleged abuse and how it may have impacted the search for Larry. They tried to do it sooner, and they're the ones that found about this domestic violence report that she had done. Most domestics, I'm not going to say it can never happen, but they don't go to the police department to report it. They call you and we go there. So it's

It's kind of odd. She said he assaulted her and that he just walked off. She had taken the keys from him because she didn't want him to drive off drunk. And he just walked out the door and went down the road and was never seen again. She claimed that he assaulted her, that he bounced her off the wall. But there was really nothing there. That kind of obfuscated the story as to what was going on.

I believe she had to come up with some kind of a story to explain why he was no longer around. I don't know that it's that good of a story, but it's what she was going to keep to as much as she could. The best defense is a good offense. See, if you can't confuse the issue real fast by trying to make the other person out to be the bad guy. Now, when I finally got to go interview her, she wouldn't come to the police department. She's just no way.

As Investigator Wentz pointed out, Ladina went to the police nearly two weeks after Larry disappeared to report an alleged incident of domestic violence, but never reported Larry missing. Even more troubling, she refused to return to the police station for a formal interview about Larry's disappearance. We were unable to reach Ladina for comment. However, Investigator Wentz shared his impressions of Ladina based on the conversations that he had with her during the course of his investigation.

So I went to her house. I took another detective with me to at least be able to listen to what was going on. I was going to record my interview with her. She would have nothing of that. She didn't want it recorded. So I had to do everything by notes and memory on what she told me. I wrote a 36-page affidavit for a search warrant, and I searched it. It wasn't searched

Any time during this period that you would have hoped to expect or found something. And I found nothing that I could say would point me any direction. She told me some of these stories, too, but everything she told me was where she was trying to convince me of her truthfulness, but not really convey any information to me. I have a problem when people do that.

that they're unwilling to nail things down and they're just floating around and they're probably not being truthful with you. The story was that he decided that evening that he was going to go to the coast, to Seattle area.

He didn't like that side of the state. There was way too many people. It was just not his thing. But for him to decide he was going to up and take off and go over there and visit friends when he didn't really have any friends over there. He had his son, but his son, Brian, never heard from him and called and called and called. I don't know how many times trying to get a hold of him and talk to Ladina and everything else. And she always had friends.

Another story as to why he couldn't talk to him at the time. He was sleeping or he wasn't around or Ladina mentioned that he had some kind of a brain disorder or some lack of thing that made no sense. Her claim was that he left and he went over to the Seattle area and he was going to make some money gambling and

was just gone during that period of time. And everybody's attempt to try to get a hold of him had failed because he had his phone with him, but he didn't take his charger, so he couldn't charge it, and his phone had to have died.

And that he had come back. Everything was really good there for a little bit. And then it kind of turned dark. And she said they got into this fight and was drinking. And this is where she said she kept the keys to his car so that he couldn't drive off intoxicated. But that seemed odd because nobody had ever stopped him before. And his response finally was just to walk out the door and never come back.

So, I mean, her story, it was circular. It never provided any true details.

Susie, I do remember her seeing that there were no tracks in the snow to suggest the car had come or gone. It was just clean snow. And she gave some of this that made no sense, especially to them because they knew him very well. And if he made plans to do something, he stuck to them. Every one I had talked to, their description of his behavior, there's no way he would be calling or visiting or something. All

all the time. He had to be involved with people. Him to just cut off contact with people, just not happening. He just would give you a story and always want to come across as this very shy, retiring, meek, mild person who just couldn't arm a fly. She wants to have her story. He wants you to believe that story. And that is she has absolutely no connection to his disappearance whatsoever.

Common sense says that's not the case. Whenever I would talk to somebody who was a suspect, the worst thing that you could have is I want my attorney. And in effect, that's what she told us. She was offered a polygraph. Please, let's eliminate you. She would have nothing to do with that. Like I said, if somebody is trying to convince you of something rather than convey information to you, you can probably be comfortable that they're not being truthful.

Susan mentioned last week that she had spoken to some of Ladina's former partners, and Investigator Wentz confirmed that he pursued that avenue as well. What he learned raised even more concerns for him. Several of those individuals described troubling patterns in Ladina's past, stories that, while not identical, echoed aspects of her relationship with Larry. For Investigator Wentz, these accounts helped him build a broader picture of the dynamics at play, yet didn't bring him any closer to finding Larry.

He had some big bruising on his legs and they were asking what happened. And he would just kind of slough it off as, you know, Ladina did this and not make anything of it. He didn't want to really, I think, be embarrassed that he was a victim of anything. And I did a whole lot of digging on this. I talked to everybody trying to find out what he was like, what she was like, and I

I think she'd been married four times. Some of the things I found out about her relationship with people, she's all over the map. And all of the husbands or ex-husbands, especially the last one, were absolutely convinced that she did harm to Larry because they felt very fortunate to have gotten out themselves alive. I mean, they would tell me how they were afraid of her, how her

her entire focus was to try to obtain whatever resources they may have, funds. I mean, she was interested in only what they could provide her. There was one, if I get this story right, they divorced in the morning, and he married this other girl on that afternoon. And the two women got into a big fight. It's interesting. She's a colorful person. I

I did find something where he had actually gone over to visit the prior girlfriend. I found some neighbors who had witnessed this. They hear a whole big commotion going on outside, and she had followed him, chased him down, found his car, and was ramming his car with her car because she knew where he was at. I also found where he would be at a bar, and there was one called the James Gang. She'd come in just matter of the heck that he wasn't available right then and there.

Susan firmly believed that Larry should have been classified as an endangered missing person from the very beginning. At the time of his disappearance, Larry was recovering from a major surgery and dealing with complications that left him physically vulnerable. To Susan, this made his sudden disappearance even more concerning.

If someone had intended to harm Larry, she didn't believe that he would have had the ability to defend himself. Investigator Wentz shared this concern, agreeing that Larry's medical condition was a crucial factor. He reached out to Larry's doctor to gain a clearer understanding of his health at the time he went missing.

So he had had some damage there. And because of that, he had lost some use of his arms. They weren't as strong as he could have been at one time. I mean, he'd worked construction before, so he was quite capable of doing things. I talked to the doctor who did the surgery. For all intents and purposes, he was on the mend, but he was by no means fully capable of doing things.

While everyone initially suspected that Ladina was behind Larry's disappearance, Investigator Wentz had a hunch that it wasn't that clear-cut. He believed the situation was likely more complicated than it seemed at face value. Investigator Wentz believes that something happened to Larry at the family farmhouse, which Don Martin had been renting from Larry at the time. The cell phone data added weight to this theory, showing that Larry had called Don on the day he disappeared, and his phone's location moved in the direction of the farmhouse shortly after.

I still go down to the idea that he probably left and he went down to Don Martin. I think maybe she did go with him. I believe something happened there involving Don Martin because

Because Ladina and he were friends before Larry became involved with Ladina. In fact, Don Martin, I found out, had actually been a dispatcher for the Yakima Police Department for a short time. He ended up being dismissed right away because of his drinking. A short-lived tenure there. But I don't know that he really did much of anything as far as work. It was a disaster.

I felt bad actually trying to hammer him a little bit, press him. He just fell apart. The only person I know that might really have any information is Ladina's sister. Unfortunately, she's developmentally disabled herself.

And I doubt very seriously she knows anything. And Ladina is really good at not telling anybody anything. I know there were other women involved real close in time period when this took place that would have had some information, but they're all dead. Every one of them. I tracked every one of these people down, talked to them all. And some of them are extremely supportive of Ladina. I believe that

She could have not possibly done anything to harm Larry. And I don't know that really it had anything to do with that. I think that Don Martin is a key player. I think probably what happened is he did go down there and he confronted him. I think whatever happened to Larry happened right there. And Ladina had a part in helping to dispose. But she absolutely knows what happened. You know, if a person's pushed far enough, things can happen pretty fast.

without really intention of something happening. I got the feeling that Larry probably believed that he could still do things. He had a disability, definitely. Don Martin also had a disability. When people are pushed into something, things can happen really quick.

They're hoping that somebody would come forward with something. Now, for whatever reason, if there is somebody still out there that knows something, Ladina also knows them. So they may be afraid for themselves from her, or they may very well be supporting of her. It would allow the family to have a closure, which is what I desperately hope to be able to do. Right now, it's still up in the air. Yeah.

If I don't have a case solved, they all bother me. I got pretty cocky up until 95 because I never had a case I didn't solve. And in 95, I got one that still isn't solved. And we talk about that. In fact, I just talked to the cold case group a couple weeks ago about it. I lived these cases for years. It's interesting how all the pieces come together real fast when you finally realize where to look.

You always have a pretty good idea of what happened and who is responsible. But when you are missing that one little key thing that allows you to prove it, it makes it very tough.

Although Ladina has never been charged in connection to Larry's disappearance, she did come under intense scrutiny for fraudulently using the funds on Larry's EBT card after he disappeared, totaling just over $1,500. Ladina claims she used the funds because she expected Larry to return home.

She also told a local reporter from the Yakima Herald that Larry had called several people during the first two months of his disappearance, and she was certain he was alive somewhere, possibly in Montana or Idaho. Ladina also claimed that Larry's family said horrible things about her because they had a vendetta against her. According to a 2014 article in the Yakima Herald, she was charged with welfare fraud, perjury, and false verification, and was later placed in a diversion program.

She was using his EBT card to, according to her, make certain that the house had food and things for when he came back. Now, this was months later, and none of this made any sense, but she was using it at a store down in the White Swine area, which is quite a ways down into the Yakima Valley on the Indian Reservation. There was an investigator for that. They were able to pull that together and

There was good evidence to show that she was using this fraudulently. And she ended up pleading guilty to a couple of different counts, I think, which in part she had to pay these things back that she had used. And I think that sometime later, the charges against her went away. She never did any kind of jail time or anything.

Hey, listeners. It's Leon Nafok. I'm here to tell you about a brand new series from me and Prologue Projects, an Audible original series called Final Thoughts, Jerry Springer, the story of a television show that changed the world and the man who gave it his name. But did you know that before the Jerry Springer show made him notorious all over the world...

Springer was something else entirely? A respected Midwestern politician, the progressive mayor of a major Rust Belt city, a man many saw as a future leader in democratic politics. How did this idealistic rising star, with his lofty political ambitions, take a turn in such a radically different direction? You can find the whole series available now on Audible. Just search for Final Thoughts Jerry Springer on the Audible app or go to audible.com slash Springer.

We all want to be the best version of ourselves. And of course, fitness is a key component of that. The folks at Anytime Fitness, well, they see all you strivers out there striving. And they have the expertise to help you optimize your efforts inside the gym and out. If you are actively pursuing your goal to be fit and strong, not just for bigger muscles, but for a bigger, better life, Anytime Fitness has everything you need to do just that.

They have all the equipment you need, plus easy anytime access to more than 5,000 global locations. Anytime Fitness helps you train to be a stronger, more confident, more badass version of yourself with expert coaching to help you optimize your personalized training, nutrition, and recovery plan. Get started today at AnytimeFitness.com. That's AnytimeFitness.com.

From the very beginning, Susan was deeply perplexed by Ladina's unusual interest in the farmhouse that Larry was due to inherit from his mother, the same house where Don Martin had been living when Larry vanished. In the years that followed, the farmhouse continued to be a central focus for Ladina, which only made Susan more suspicious. But what Susan revealed next took things to an entirely different level.

After my brother disappeared, she took my mom to court three different times trying to get possession of that house. The first time, my mom was trying to evict the tenant for nonpayment. Medina went to court and said that my mom didn't own the house, that she'd sold it to my brother, and that my brother borrowed the money from her for the down payment. And

The judge said, well, you have a canceled check. And she said, no, I don't have a bank account. And he said, well, what proof do you have? Some kind of a contract, anything? And she said, no, it was just a handshake. He said, well, I can't help you. Mrs. Downey still has ownership of the house. She hadn't died, so it hadn't transferred to my brother. And there was no proof of any down payment being made. So

So he dismissed it. Second time, she tried it again and tried to get the money that she supposedly gave Larry for the down payment, but also that $2,700 and $900. And she tried to get that back. And again, no proof of anything. The judge said, any money that Larry borrowed from you, you don't go after his mom for it between you and Larry. He dismissed it. The third

third time we went to court, she actually filed a restraining order against my mom. She said that my mom had climbed her back fence and had placed a threatening note in her truck and said, you'll be next. Well, my mom is a four-foot, chubby, gray-haired little grandma. I mean...

Everybody's snickering in the courtroom because here's my mom with her bad knees. And then here's Ladina telling the judge in all seriousness that my mom is just like a Spider-Man. She started down the road about this money again. This last time,

The judge said, look, Ms. Mann, you come back into my courtroom one more time about this and I'm going to hold you in contempt of court. And that finally shut her down. And she stopped trying to get money, the farm and everything else. It is funny. It wasn't funny at the time because my mom was so upset.

She had to get an attorney and a lot of wasted money and time. But she also did a restraining order against me. A couple of weeks after this last court case, I pull into my driveway and there's a sheriff sitting there. He gives me the documents and I'm very different from my mom. So I look at this and I'm thinking, okay, she's saying that I am stalking her through email and phone calls.

So this is our way of going in the back door and getting all of her records. I thought, okay, I'm going to go to court on this. I had the attorney request all of her landline records, cell phone records, all the emails, everything. And she dropped the request. And I was disappointed.

Investigator Wentz credits much of the progress in Larry's case to the tireless efforts Susan put in during the early years. He acknowledged that without her dedication, many of the leads he followed when he took over the case simply wouldn't have existed. It was friends of Susan's who worked for the FBI that urged her early on to document everything, no matter how small it seemed at the time. We often believe we'll remember all of the crucial details, but time has a way of wearing things down.

Susan was later diagnosed with a brain tumor, making that advice all the more vital. Throughout the investigation, Investigator Wentz made it a priority to keep Susan involved, ensuring that she felt heard and knew that he was committed to uncovering the truth about what happened to her brother. Even after his retirement and moving to the opposite coast, Investigator Wentz and Susan still stay in touch, and he's still willing to work this case if a new lead happens to surface.

Susan has been the one that has been probably the most instrumental in trying to get things done. Some of the complaints I heard from families is detectives don't talk to the family, and that never made any sense to me at all. You need to keep them involved as much as you possibly can. The victim, there's nothing you can do for her. Everything you do is for the family, and to a lesser point, yourself.

Because to me, I was kind of offended that people would get away with these things or do these things and think they could get away with it. And that just irritated me to no end. How do you believe that this is your right? And I really tried to work hard to do the best I could. And when I can't come up with a resolution, that is a loss that I don't like to lose. I'll get on my horse. I'll head back. I want to see this resolved.

While Susan was once optimistic that a resolution to Larry's case was within reach, her hope has gradually faded since Investigator Wentz's retirement. Currently, there's no one assigned to actively investigate Larry's disappearance, and the case has once again become just another cold case sitting on the shelf in the Yakima Police Department. Despite the lack of progress, Susan hasn't completely lost faith. Her family continues to explore other avenues in their search for answers.

determined not to give up on finding the truth. So it's not really even assigned to a person, a

About a year ago, my husband, sister and I went in. We talked to the cold case detective. They asked me, what didn't we do that we should have done or could have done? And I said, well, let's see, where do you want me to start? And I started naming off all this forensic evidence that they allowed to be lost. And I said, you guys never even looked for him. You did no kind of a search for a vulnerable adult.

They said they were going to take another look at it, but they've never reached out to us since then. The last time that I called and asked, they just said, well, it's a cold case. And unless new evidence comes to light, it will remain a cold case. Unless a body is found, they're saying that we don't have a murder scene. Well, we don't have one. And

And we don't have evidence because they didn't do their job, basically. They've allowed this to become a cold case, their incompetence. They weren't skilled enough to say, oh, well, we're a small police station and we don't have the resources. They have never requested help from Washington State Patrol, Yakima County Sheriff's Department.

the FCI. We have a local office in Yakima. They've never asked for assistance from the criminal justice division of the attorney general. I could go on and on. If you don't have resources, you reach out and you try to find resources. Wouldn't that make sense? I think so. And they still haven't done that. I spent probably $15,000 on billboards all around Yakima County. And the

in the last 15 years. You can't talk to anybody in Yakima that doesn't know the case of Larry Riegel. I live an hour and a half away from Yakima. If

It's a very rural, remote area. And people will come out of Yakima. I have all of my brother's trophy mounts in my house. And a lot of times people come in and they'll say, wow, that's quite the, you know, caribou or that's quite the moose horn. And I'll say, oh, it was my brother's.

You live in Yakima? And they said, oh, yeah. I said, do you know the case of Larry Regal, the missing person? And they, oh, yeah, yeah. All the billboards? I said, yeah, well, that's my brother.

It is a well-known story in Yakima and Kittitas County, but still doesn't do us any good. His story was included in a book called Killing Yakima. I have referred to Yakima as the killing field of the state of Washington because we have so many murders out here and that reservation and the remote farmland

You can kill them and you can hide them. And there are areas that hunters aren't going into because they're not allowed to. But in any case, because of that book, my niece started an online petition to have a grand jury convened to see if there's enough circumstantial evidence to bring a case. Right now, we have close to 1,200 signatures. We are going to talk to the DA immediately.

and bring that petition. It's been signed by Yakima County Sheriff, the mayor, city council members. These are elected officials.

We contacted the Yakima Police Department to request records and an interview. Our interview request was forwarded to the Major Crimes Unit Sergeant, but we never heard back. In response to our records request, they stated, "We are unable to provide responsive records at this time due to the case being an open, active investigation." Today, all Susan wants is to find her brother Larry. As the years have continued to pass by,

and everyone has grown older, she feels the weight of time pressing on her. Above all, she longs for peace, for answers to the questions that have haunted her and her family for so long. Tragically, Larry's son Brian has since passed away, without ever getting answers as to what happened to his father. In a desperate bid for the truth, Susan is offering a large reward for information, hoping that the promise of money might finally compel someone to come forward and share what they know about what really happened to Larry.

My mom is 95. She'll be 96 in a month. She's in the hospital right now as we speak. She's very ill. My brother's son just passed away October 1st, 2024. My mom, up until the last couple of years, because she's got some dementia now, she used to sing a song to my brother every single night. So

So when I would stay over there, you hear her little voice in her bedroom singing for my brother's pictures. I don't care about prosecuting her at this point. I want to know where my brother's body is. If we could get body recovery, then they can do whatever they want. If they want to cut a deal with her, fine. Blame everything on the tenant. He's dead. Tell her that she has to tell us where the body is. And once we recover his body, I

I'm okay. I'm okay with whatever else does or does not come about with this case. You know, I've gone through treatments for my own, my brain tumor, and I don't know if I'm going to be next. And then after me, who's going to take it? I have still out there a $50,000 reward for my brother's body recovery. So you tell me where the body is. 50 grand, man, it's yours.

So what really happened to Larry Regal after he last spoke to his family on Christmas Day of 2009? The story that Ladina gave, that he simply left town and headed for the coast, never added up. Larry missed the plans he had made with his family the day after Christmas and didn't even bother to call them to let them know he couldn't make it. For Larry's family, this behavior was so out of character that they immediately rejected that story. On top of that, Larry had always hated driving out to the coast.

A couple of days later, Susan confronted Ladina, who told her a series of strange, inconsistent stories. At the time, Susan couldn't make sense of all the details. But with the benefit of hindsight, some pieces of the puzzle later began to fall into place. One thing that stood out was that Ladina seemed unusually focused on the family farmhouse. They later learned that Larry had spoken to Don Martin on the day he disappeared. The

the man who was renting the family farmhouse from Larry. Don hadn't paid his rent in months, and Larry was reportedly angry about it. Investigator Wentz revealed that phone records showed Larry's phone traveling in the direction of the farmhouse on the day he went missing. After that, the phone was never used again, and Larry vanished without a trace.

And we also learned that Ladina was friends with Don Martin before he ever rented the farmhouse, and she's the one who introduced Don to Larry. Investigator Wentz also revealed phone records showed calls between Ladina and Don Martin after Larry vanished. In addition to these strange circumstances, there was another odd detail. Ladina had returned Larry's car to the friend he had purchased it from, claiming that Larry wasn't going to be able to make payments on it any longer.

One bit of information that stood out was that the vehicle was almost completely paid off. And to Larry's family, it felt like an effort to distance herself from Larry's vehicle, the one that she claimed he left town driving. By the time Investigator Wentz took over the case, Don Martin's health had deteriorated to the point where he couldn't provide any useful information. But Investigator Wentz has his own theory, that something happened to Larry at the farmhouse, and at the very least, Ladina was likely there.

Over the years, Investigator Wentz had multiple conversations with Ladina. She refused to come to the station or even have her statements recorded. Yet to Investigator Wentz, something about her story never rang true. She always seemed more interested in giving the impression that she was telling the truth than providing actual details. He believes that his investigation came incredibly close to uncovering what happened to Larry. But they just need a few more pieces of the puzzle to finally solve this case.

He and Susan hope that by sharing Larry's story, that someone will come forward with new information. Christmas is meant to be a time of joy, a season for gathering with loved ones and making memories. But for Larry's family, it's a time marked by heartache and unanswered questions. Christmas 2025 will be the 16th holiday with an empty seat at the table. 16 years without Larry and still no answers, no resolution, and no justice.

Year after year, Susan has pushed for the truth, determined to make sure her brother is not forgotten. And she's vowed to never give up. The bond between siblings is powerful. And for Susan, that connection didn't end with Larry's disappearance. Her love for her brother has fueled her determination every step of the way. If you have any information regarding the disappearance of Larry Regal, please contact the Yakima Police Department at 509-575-6200.

or Yakima County Crime Stoppers at 1-800-248-TIPS. Well, there's a whole lot of odd things in this particular case. So many times in these kind of cases, you have a pretty small window of opportunity to talk to these people. And once that window's closed, you're done. So it's kind of frustrating to

to try to get another bite at the apple. You never know where something might come up. You're always thinking in your head, "What could I have done differently?" I don't know if there was anything way back then that had the ability to, say for example, satellites. Were they taking photographs? Is it possible that Larry's car could be captured at the home in the valley when he went missing?

That would be just amazing to say, OK, well, I know the car was there. So this is what we're dealing with. Or even capture it going down a road in that direction. Something simple like that can break these cases. That brings us to the end of episode 487. I'd like to thank Susan and retired investigator Wentz for speaking with us.

If you have a missing loved one that you'd like to have featured on the show, there's a case submission form at thevanishedpodcast.com. If you'd like to join in on the discussion, there's a page and discussion group on Facebook. You can also find us on Instagram. If you like our show, please give us a five-star rating and review. You can also support the show by contributing on Patreon, where you can get early and ad-free episodes.

We'll be taking next week off for the Memorial Day holiday, but we'll return on Monday, June 2nd with a new story from Arkansas. Thanks for listening. If you like The Vanished, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

As a contractor for the NSA, Edward Snowden had access to a range of top-secret government programs. But as he learned more about these clandestine operations, he came to understand a devastating secret. The government was conducting mass surveillance on its own citizens. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters,

corporate fraud. In our latest series, whistleblower Edward Snowden changes the national conversation about privacy on the internet as he risks his own freedom and his family's well-being. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.