Emulators are taking over the App Store
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What i'm looking in the request, the flagship podcast.

mini L D technology yeah.

there's one thing the show is actually about this space. It's disport.

Yeah, classic audio suspect.

David d's favorite subject.

If you're going to a talk, this place, yeah, you want to do IT in a radio .

show that sounds right yeah i'm going to make a TV show that's just sound next it's going to be sick yeah .

I feel like that's been done .

quite a lot as I feel like netflix just Greenly .

that for just now solution sound with the peers and just you listing sounds you like I was seeing him like .

in a little little robe sitting in like a fireplace behind them and .

be like and now here's .

another sound.

He is like babies. Like I feel like I have to disclose that on the E.

P, U. And fish, yes, we got that is right away. You see your name and you've already to this.

That was nei.

The network shows for the future. It's great. You should go watch IT. This is, hey, what's up?

God.

David, David, piers, host of just sounds of David peers to be here.

Oh my god, I love your work.

It's good. Yeah, you know that when you plug A U S, B, if I sent to windows and like it's a good one, that's episode three.

yeah.

Just i'm just offering my you know you a brain for the very first. There's actually quite a lot of news this week. Yeah, we've got to talk about what's happening.

The iphone emulators have IT very APP stores around the world is actually really interesting. Google is reshuffled, its Andrea team, which we should talk about. Meta launched its big AI push to compete with ChatGPT. IT is true that SONY announced the next generation with many elite tps that will be a full hour in middle of the show today. Then we got a couple of lending rounds and David is going to do something he calls headline blitz with David pears.

I'm going to just sounds, but it's me screaming headline of about tiktok. It's good of incredible.

I also, I just want to i'm going to try to sum in some energy in the world, IT appears not today, but there might be a lightning response or in the future. So if you could, everyone listening could just .

as the good vibes we're going .

to make this happen yeah, it's it's a good named Steve. He gave twenty five.

I love Steve. Thanks for the twin.

It's not Steve. Sorry, Steve. Um okay, let's talk about emulators on the APP store. This is a big deal.

So if you've been listening to our chest, you know the europeans did some regulating as they want to do. They basically said you have to allow other up stores in europe on IOS devices. Those other adores started appearing.

One launched this week, all store pal. What's the first thing? These alternative abp stores want to allow game emulates. It's the thing people want. There's been a little bit back and forth about which emulators are going up first.

Which ones aren't apple response to this by saying, you know what, we are going to allow emulators in our p store now because we don't want people installing these other APP stores. That means emulous have come to the apple run. I was APP store.

The first good one called delta is out. Its been ten years in the making, basically rarely test out the developers and cracking away on IT in various ways, gray area ways for ten years. It's here. People are playing IT they're love in IT, David even very close. Yeah, i'm just looking .

to see if this APP is still the number one APP in the APP store. IT is in fact, still the number one APP in the APP store. So IT was like two weeks ago as you're hearing this on friday, I think two weeks to the day since apple did what I like to do in these cases, which is just out of update a support page without really telling anybody.

But there are people watching. These things are. And basically over the last five days, really, we got the first apple emulator which showed up in the apple store, and then fairly quickly was revealed to be a clone of the old version of delhi, which was an APP called, uh, G B A for I O S spell t.

Just like that sounds pulls off the tone, and I even IT quickly got pulled from the APP store. And then another one came out. I think he was called by my, uh, IT was out for a minute.

And then the developer pulled IT out of what the developer said was fear, uh, which we should come back to, which I think is fascinating. And then like you said, delta came out. We've shocked really on the show before he was on the show last fall talking about emulators.

He's been working on this forever. And at one point a few years ago thought he was going to be the ap store. And then that cut ripped away and has come up with, I would say, increasingly creative ways, if you want to do some work to get this thing out.

As soon as the announcement came out, that third party episodes were going to be a loud, he announced, been working on one like, this was always the plan. And then I think IT seems like basically just out of nowhere. Apple was like, guy, you're cool.

You can do this. And he was like, sick. I've been building this for ten years here. IT is.

And IT is like, I mean, IT is a remarkably good APP uh, for what IT does, we can talk about the legality of roms and emulation. We should talk about all of that. Uh, I did a decoder episode, the shuster, on all of this like two weeks to go.

It's very good, but it's just so funny. This is like a version ten APP that just shows up on the APP store all at once. Like I think I can say this without getting me or rightly in trouble.

This thing has been in test flight for a very long time because there's a lot less a review on test flag. You can just test apps in beta. Some people can have them.

I have had IT. It's like it's out there and now all of the sudden he was able to just fit the switch. And IT is the number one APP in the APP store. So much paint up demand for something like this, it's fascinating.

So we should talk with the legality of IT. Alex, I know you've been tracking a lot of that stuff over time. There's a war on emulators generally occurring.

Yeah yeah lindo lindo for the longest time was like, no, what you do you because the emulated audience, I think was fairly small and I think they have been kind of probably threading and looking at this moment and knowing IT was onna happen at some point because you want android in, go down. But I O takes some work yeah that takes some work. And in IOS is like there's some impact there.

If you can just automatically download and then get your roms, that means you're not going to paint in tinder for kind of a similar have IT on your switch, right? Like why would you do that? What you can just have IT on your iphone?

I mean, the answer for the longest time is and what does an intendo make a game boy advances emulator and sell romes? And the answer to that has been they don't want to pay thirty percent to apple.

And yeah, it's kind of like I think the more accurate like like emotionally their response is, you know, that meme of of a you're love IT.

the meme of my beloved IT singer, this singer, I know I I Carry you.

Another one of my the mean of my .

beloved sounds like a very, very inexpensive netflix. That's just a couple guys in the iphone.

It's like a freshy show. Yeah right that's on freshy. But you know that the maria Carry me where she's like I don't know her emphatic asses down. That's kind of been in in tindall looking at the iphone for the last like last fifteen years. So yeah I don't know her go away.

But if you put the intended games in the iphone, you just reduce the value in inter hardware, right that's thing ah in the problem .

that is the thing that's and tino is most focused on is they ve got a really good business of focusing on the harbor and theyve opened up, right? They would ve done more development. Super mario, super mario run.

I believe they've got some, some good games on there. And and they've even recently as like I believe late last year, we're kind of like, yeah, we're going to start expLoring more stuff on IOS. But the the longest time they're not been a fan of IT and they recently started going after these companies again.

the companies in uh like little groups yeah so uh jay ron, the sea of discord on decoder next week, we for that discord just got what amounts to a season. This is like legal orders saying delete these channels. These servers there are hosting emulator groups and they just wipe them out.

It's actually we talked about IT. He's like lawyers and let me say, but basically he is like we don't have a choice and no one really knows how they ended up and not a choice. So you're just in this weird moment where this stuff has been tolerated because the distribution is zero.

A handful of people in tesla light who know rightly yeah or illegal in a way that's like fine. There is a lot of argument that IT should be legal. But if it's been tolerated here now it's in the store like apples, like screw IT with the last thing we can allow is the rise of successful alternative APP stores because there's demand for these emulators, we have to allow an our store to keep people away from the alternative APP stores. IT feels like this whole conversation is going to .

come to some kind of I totally agree, and I think a this is sort of a tourism of gaming in general that has held true over time that people who want to play games will jump through a surprising number of hoops in order to play games, right? It's why all of the cutting edge PC hardware is given to gamers first because they are the one who will pay for IT and do the work to adopt. It's why apple, a loud games streaming for the same reason, people will go out of their way to do whatever they have to do in order to play games. And so apple has started to pull this step back.

But I just keep thinking about when we did an episode emulators on the show last year, crisis in the erg of polygon basically said when I asked, when are we just going na get spotify for old video games? Why can't I pay twenty six a month to play all of these roles perfectly legally? And he just looks me dead in the facing goes, no one actually wants that and and his point was just this group of people is so small and so irrelevant to the rest of the gaming industry that is actually not worth the effort to care about them for an intendo for anybody else that it's like you leave them alone because odds are they're also buying your new games.

And so that's great. You don't want to pissing them off, but it's just kind of a live and let live thing because IT doesn't mean anything that anybody else. I think the fact that delta so successful in the fact that this has become such a big thing is going to be a really interesting moment in that story because this is the first time ever IT looks like there is actual honest to got mainstream demand for something like this.

Because if you just down the delta, there's nothing, there is just an APP with nothing to do. You have to fill IT with stuff, and that stuff has to come from somewhere. And that stuff mostly comes from places that are not you dumping roms, that are yours from your game boy cartridge, which no one knows how to do and no one is going to know how to do. And you can just go on google and search for roms and they're all right there. So like this stuff is just out of the shadows in a way that never hasn't.

I feel like notable plus on our alex grans .

has a response for you, David and IT is a lot easier if you want to back up your cards now versus twenty years ago. There's a lot in different ways to do anything you can technically do IT with some of the analog um consoles and and there's a whole bunch of little tools and stuff. And to be good, nintendo do doesn't care as much about the N S. Games in the superintendent, games like when they were user, that was because user was doing much more like I was doing the switch. Yeah, the thing actually out right now .

that including tears of the kingdom, and before other people were playing tears, the kingdom people are using were able to play tears. And this next part.

I say, as someone who owns the super intendo version of the analog loves a retro game, if you played a rer game lately.

I so watching, fall out and like, I should play, fall at one. And then I looked at IT, i'm not going to play fall .

at one yeah it's like watching old movies. IT takes a very particular kind of person to be like, yes.

know where they really work though is on the iphone yes yeah. The games that looked like crap on your sixty and four KTV look great in a little square on your iphone. IT is the perfect place for this kind of thing.

but it's in some ways, right?

I don't know this. I just know this hypothesis, ally, based on, you know, the internet and all of the cards that I have legally downloaded, this is great.

I feel like the fact that I am one in in charge of this Operation to a buckin copyright lawyer, three, deeply aware of the situation, is all that going to jail?

When I look here, yes, they're actually sitting out there.

But just for ni du police, they are like, i'm sorry, I couldn't apologize more deeply .

if I .

want to. So let's set aside the legality, right? Because IT is actually a weird grey area. There is a lot of parallels to napster and and ripping mp three and it's a lot yeah uh the law has changed but maybe will come back and do a whole thing. And out of that, what's set that aside?

One huge problem apple has here is that traditionally has not a lot emulation of any kind. And now IT is allowing IT, which means an entire library of software that people like Better than apple software is available. Improving a very important point, right?

Like nintendo games are Better than the games that apple has have heartedly supported for ten years in. They are running in emulation. They're not they're not coded in swift.

The controls are Better. They're more portable. It's Better like the whole thing is showing a vision of what the iphone could have been the whole time if apple would just let go. I feel like that actually the bigger problem for up on office if the next emulator IT comes out is gonna just be windows ninety five.

right? But IT can't. That breaks rules. This is like the the parsing apple review guidelines is so funny here because you can just tell the number of meetings they had to make sure what you just said is impossible.

Let me just reach you two sentences is additionally retrograding me console emulator apps can offer to downtown games so much going on in that the follow extenders you are responsible for all such software offered in your APP, including ensuring that such software complies with these guidelines and all applicable laws, which applicable laws who's to say but the the phrase retro game console emulator apps, U. K. Is so specific and so lawyer to absolute death, what is what? What counts? Retro, who's to say? Apple can do whatever wants. What counts is a console. A P, C probably doesn't like IT is so narrow ly tailor to just let apple do whatever he wants and nothing else in the funniest way.

I just think this is gna somehow end up with all the ninth indo a latters getting kicked off because nintendo do raises a stink and ridges left with like a tory links.

But there can't be a universe by way. Atti link, I had california games on my authorial links .

that he was a tory links.

So yeah, I did not notably have a game year. No, i'd had the other thing. I had the asta sized, the one that I could only .

find IT like the off brand toys. I really one of .

the T V tuner attach were going to come to TV tuners later the show come back. It's automatically linked. Think about my entire leaks and had the little cartridge that we're like very thin.

The x box three sixty is a retrograde council at this point time is that? Yes, of course, this is maybe two generations ago. It's twenty years old.

I think part of this is gonna. These companies who are actively selling IT, right, like like microsoft is pretty active in supporting old games, right? They're very backwards compatible. Intendo is actually pretty backwards compatible SONY, we less so. So so I think there's a real potential of .

seeing like A P, S, you are microsoft, have a twenty year old council. Why aren't you putting that emulator on the store tomorrow with the ability of download games for three books and you're giving thirty a book to apple? Who cares? That is free money.

Some councils are harder to to emulate the others, right? Like like the lindo councils. Most of them are really easy in sixty four super heart, even on an iphone today, IT is really hard ticket and sixty four game is playing properly.

And I think xbox might be the same. I need to double check this, but i'm pretty sure that the x box three sixty you don't see as big a row best uh emulator community around IT as you do like SONY games. And part of that is, again, you can just go by those games, like if you have an xbox, any kind of x box, you can just go and play things through two or whatever.

Yes, SONY is an interesting example because SONY has done a really good job over the years of making its current councils. And I confess, I don't have A P S. five.

I don't know how true this still is now, but for a long time, there were a lot of P S one and P S two games that you could play on A P, S three and A P S four. Like theyve done a good job of keeping that stuff available and making IT part of its cloud services in all this subsidy. Think if i'm SONY, I can sort of see in both directions where, one, as I cooky this subway, me sell police station, so I wanted do that. On the other hand, I kind of agree that if sonny was just like, hey, for whatever ten blocks a month, you can play every P S, one game on your iphone like i'd sign up for that in a hard beat and it's just sitting there for them.

IT is true that some of this stuff is heart, but have you heard of the staggering ing power of a series trip?

So as you guys we're talking, I was looking this up and apparently there's only really like one emulator foot right now for experts three sixty. It's only for PC colza which love the name and um on redit there is discussions. People are really weird about IT. They're like, yeah that sucks or it's fine but it's apparently like one of the only ones. There is one called the emo.

There is also mo s for the mac.

How could you forget about zy?

We're just google.

are just google.

This point is microsoft is very capable of making the product. So he is very capable of making the product. IT is free to them because they already owe the library.

The demand is obvious. The thing is just going to prove out is apple's a way of doing things has unnecessarily restricted user experiences. That is the danger. Because once that falls away and people are like way, this is Better than when apple is in tight control of the ecosystem, which is what we hear. By the way, when we talk about N A trust and control, we get an awful lot of notes from people who are like, this is what i'm pain for, for tim cook to push all the button on my phone for me.

And I would point out that one of the really hard things about regulating that is proving the other way, because a big part of what, like the D O J in this case, is saying is that IT would be Better if IT wasn't like this. And that's so, so, so hard to prove. And this, to your point, is going to be a very real way in which IT is going to get a lot Better very quickly because IT changed.

And I believe I don't know, but I believe that's why the emulator rule is global and not just in europe. Pe, where apple is required, like legally required to allow other APP stories, which would just go here and do this. They know they can see the outsized demand for emulators.

If you allow other APP stores with more permissive rules, people will flock to those APP stores to get the demand that we like in europe. We get game emulators. Why don't we get them here? Well, I guess we need rules to allow other apps stores in the united, and they are not right. I think we'd rather soon be in a loss IT with intendo, then have any political capital to open up the art model and .

then be a while lost IT, right? Because a lot of these games through made in copyright was super weird in the eighties around video games.

I remember the .

word is not easily sort IT. So this would be a fight for and do regardless.

Well, IT depends on who you're suing, what you're suing them for. Like again, that the the things you would map to are still napster and roster yeah in the supreme court, in the appeals courts in those cases, like invented theories of validation. Ty, like with grocer is like you are enable in copyright in french.

You know it's happening a marketing the thing for copyin friends. Now you are liable for copyright in french even though you've done done yourself yeah, that's A A bunch of steps down. You got ta get all the way there.

Um i'm not sure that you going to do that against a single development. Are not sure you can prove that case in apple by allowing these emulators on your store. You know this you're marketing the iphone to do this copy infringement.

There's a lot of road. There's a lot of steps. O yeah.

it's also apple is like the the second sentence of that thing in the guidelines that I read as apple pretty clearly foisting that responsibility on whoever is shipping the emulator. They're like if people use software in here that isn't yours to own, that your problem. We we told you not to. You've broken our terms service.

Well, that's why they pulled the one APP too, right? Like that was G, B, A for I O S.

Now that is very confusing. Yeah, agree. So I gba comes out. That's the first emulator.

Hit any story? okay? Not G, B.

A for rape and Riley tweet. Hey, this is a fork of G, B, A for IOS. The thing that I made a long ago that .

I definitely never had on my phone.

right? And what his point was, apple makes all this noise about how the absurd, controlled and safe. And here is just a bootleg of my decade project that they let slide through, while my real project is way city in review.

yeah. So it's like very beauty about this. Apple pulls the APP in an in a classic sort of apple way. There's no public explanation given of what they are doing. There's nothing we can linking to. There's mac rumors saying apple has told us on background um they have pull IT for these two reasons, one of which is copyright.

It's so important in this context to remember that apple's review process is insane. In all seriousness, like anyone who claims that apple's apple view process is consistent and has rules and make sense is just add of their mind, right? And like we see this all the time, it's so easy for bad apps to get through while people get their apps hung up on absolute tiny technicalities that don't actually have anything to do with anything.

It's it's lunacy. And so I think what happened in this case is once IT became obvious that this APP was just a rip of rallies APP, it's very popular. This is a new thing that makes sense from apple's perspective to say you've violated the rules by borrowing someone else's APP.

I think there's even the rules borrowed in scare quotes in apple guidelines that they can't borrow your work, uh, which is a very funny way to say. And so I think in this case, IT was is pretty easy and protected for apple to say you just boosted somebody else APP. You can have this .

well yet and IT IT was like IT basically IT had wiped some of the licenses that the original was developed with classic off off .

of the classic .

move yeah and like filled IT with ads.

right? yeah. That was just all around, like, now this is garbage all the time .

you were when flappy bird came out and all the sun, there were forty thousand flappy birds that all had a millions or ChatGPT when I came out and was first really popular, you could search for ChatGPT. And there were a billion things that kind of looks like ChatGPT and were called ChatGPT, but just had ads and would like steal your family from you like apple is bad at this and just continues to pretend that IT is like in a firm hold of everything that happens on the epsom.

And IT just is not. no. So that's emulators here in sites around the world because apple knows if IT, alas, emulators in alternative ap stores in europe. People want them here is Better, so it's allowed them here.

We can ask legal question though. This is the thing i've been wondering about the last couple of this, something going on, this idea that we now see what Better looks like and that could be bad for apple. I am trying to figure out in my head if i'm apple and I more worried about, okay, this sort of proof, the point that the iphone gets Better to allow this one thing.

Now IT becomes more legally. They say they are going to say, well, now we have to allow all these other things because we have prove in the point that IT gets Better when we do. Or does apple say we've thrown you a bone or two, lets all shake s and move on that make sense. I'm trying to figure like which is the winning .

strategy there. I'm going to ask some A I generation program to generate tim cook jain r who saying we're throw me you a one or two I shake and I going to blow up like we're onna blow up a data center of that prompted is an unavoidable situation. Um I think the danger for apple is they will get forced into allowing more and more things.

This has long been the danger. This is why they have fought IT for so long. We don't know what kinds of things will happen in the european market because other kids of APP stores are going to let other kinds of things happen. So there's only one after year right now.

It's bite rilly test out IT is called old store pal so I launched with delta obviously uh and this clipboard manager clip, which is a type of APP that is forbidden by APP on the regular APP store because a lip word manager can see all the things you are copying and pasting. Totally Normal that clipper managers on this up computers that was not on the fun. So here, here's this.

One other kind of thing you can do in the f and you couldn't before. Is that gonna enough to turn the tide of regulation around? I don't know. Emulators obviously were right. So there there's only one store right now.

Yeah, yeah, there's only one store. There's no porn or gambling. And I feel like we made a bet. I think I may have lost .

about some how quickly point. Well, I think rally is working .

on this store in a long time.

Yeah, give IT a minute. I absolutely do not believe you have .

lost this back yet. Yes.

that's coming. The second vision OS APP store opens the flood gates. Wrong phrase.

Is only one the point.

There's only one story we don't know, yes. But the second, there's another compelling thing that you can accomplish with an APP from another store that is compelling enough for anyone, any significant set of people to go download that store and get that APP. Apple will allow that thing.

And IT seems inevitable that that is that the just the how the flow of innovation is going to go now. Uh, you know, we always joked that like just a hint of competition makes these companies behave just like the a whispers of competition. Here you have both like Mandates competition because of regulators. There's no other APP stores and there is going na be way more than a whisper of competition. There's going to be just people try and stuff because it's a land grab in europe for iphone customers again.

which is call yeah yeah. And that pipeline of cool apps come out that apple doesn't allow two, apple allows IT so that people don't go through the hoops downloading up like what IT seems is now obvious. And i'm so curious how far this will go is that IT is more important to apple to keep you in the APP store than to keep its rules about the absence like apple will bend massively as long as you stay in the APP store.

And it's going to be so interesting to see how far that extends like I I I am on record with like the apple sports stuff to say that betting and gambling is coming two apple platforms in a way that people do not yet see. And I think this like porn, I think is probably a pretty bright line for apple. Did IT IT won't cross for a variety reasons, but like there will be popular betting apps that do things that apple apps won't let you do and like how far will you go to keep as much in the APP store as a last weekend is going to be a big question over the next see.

I think I think the port is going to happen as well. I think they're to like, yeah, I think they're to be like, oh, you can educate IT in the news, face I D to access your porn hub account .

and you'll tell a security .

story about IT yeah, yeah, they're going to do .

a whole security story about IT.

No, I okay, because you are just see too much porn on the subway.

Although here at two things, one was writing the subway in tork this morning, woman was watching a horr movie with full speakers, no headphones, and there's just a lot of deep breathing and and screaming this hour movie, and for a while is just keep breathing. So everyone was looking on the subway car. Incredible breach of subway at on my rent. And I was actually, I used used to give her my airports like this might be worth the two hundred books right now.

Yeah, I honestly believe that if you are listening to something on full speaker, everyone else within earshot is now firmly within their right to come over and press pause. Or we win, or we're all watching this together now.

Yeah, we're all watching this together.

And I can be like, coke, can we just go back ten minutes? I missed the product happening. You should be able to sit down next. Be like we're watching this together.

Do the double type to go back ten seconds. I don't do that. But if you do, let us know, I go, well, i'm guessing not.

Well, okay, ay, that was a side out here, is why I think everyone just like that. What happened? OK, uh, there was nothing to watch.

Deal, and I and I I did IT. I watched our goal. Welcome back.

Did ever know?

Did you fix this here?

not. I want to say anything about this movie. What I want to say is throughout the entire period that I was washing our goal, I was trying to imagine tim cook watching.

Is that just like if tim cook wouldn't do this, IT won't appear on the APP store.

I I think that is as good of a content understanding for apple is anything and you're like this is about as far as is. He's going to go, yeah, like he he had to sit there and then he had to tell Matthew on that was a good movie, right? Like there was a is obviously is screening.

This is a big apple movie from the twisted mind. Betty van, yeah, do a leap is in the thing. Then they all got up and the lights came on. You know, apple park in team was like. right. Yeah I just there's like a part of me that says like that there's a boundary my whose behavior and I don't know exactly what IT is about the image of tim cook watching argue that makes me confident the boundary will never get a orn yes but if you just sit there, I don't watch raga I don't can't stress this enough. This is not a good use of your tone.

It's off IT is just not a good super time uh but if you watch IT and imagine him cooked watching IT and this is what I paid for, then there's a part of your brain it's like when the whatever apple product marketing manager comes to him and says here's I we're going to solve for the porn revenue yeah like that person will just like eat on side. 为什么 不配？ He's like my brain can't process.

He's he's got a little spring in his office today.

It's a beautiful john I liquid metal ic .

gorgeous looks kind like the .

way award design obvious and it's Normal but just a box on .

the spring, right?

That's enough. Talking about tim cook and pornography in the same sort of mental .

space are sorry.

David, I know you're covering that. Are there more APP stores in the mix here?

I think so so the the first phase of this, there's been a handful of folks saying is coming right. A lot of IT is gaming. I loudly talking about doing this. Uh, the folks behind the the set APP thing, which is like a subscription to a bunch of mac apps, they've said they are working on himself.

So I think we're gone to get more of these and there's going to be a set of them that are like very professional and very legit and our sort of big businesses onto themselves. And then there's just going to be this crazy minefield of new ideas. And I think those are gona take a while from what I can tell, if I get hard work to build one of these things.

And I think, uh, in ralli's case, he's been running out store for a while. And so there there is a bunch of paper work and stuff to do to get this working, there is the you have to get like a million dollar line of credit or something to open one of these apps stores. But he was able to, for what I understand, jump through these hoops relatively quickly.

If this is a, because tim sweeny was like, here's a million dollar one of credit, I need to start happening.

ally, right? And then if you're if you're the the mac pothos who have been running set up for a while or your epic like you have the resources to do this, but if you want to just spin up an ap tra from nothing is actually pretty hard work. yeah. So I think that my guess is like this fall and maybe even in the next year is when the like truly weird stuff is gona start to happen, but IT is going to happen.

My question is what is the next set of emulating? Like just to stay focus on mus, maybe apples a lot of windows. It's a tory links. It's definitely title links.

But like maybe apple isn't in a loud windows emulation in the sap store at the gate, but you can see maybe all store is going to allow windows twenty five emulation and we're all gone to play a leader suit, Larry, on our ipads, right? Like you can see the comment or sixty four is the comment or sixty four retry game council? I know.

yes. Yeah, I believe there was one briefly on the store.

So I mean, what is the definition of a retrograde console? right? We can do another hf hour on the virtues and confident, but is that starts to open in the library of acceptable software, starts to expand, which apple has never allowed.

They've wanted everyone to stay inside of their user if IT. And for good reason, I don't think these are bad things that apple wanted, right? They don't want a bunch of weird flash ports in the iphone.

In the beginning, they they made very serious rules. But how actually look feel so that the user experience would be great? I think that the time limit on needing to do that has long been expired. So now it's like what what else is going to be allowed here? And you can see the emulation of various kinds of other computers are gona very quickly open the door to floods of other cool software, which all most of which, by the way, won't be monotoned by like weird micropayments and hands yeah is is just old software.

I'm curious. One that I think will be kind of interesting is su cum vm sv sn vm is a lot of was that game .

monkey island yeah monkey .

island pointing click games all made by lucar ds ah which is knowns by disney and and scum vm is kind of like independently maintained by other people. And i'm like, oh, that's a really that's when you always see any time a system starts allowing emulators the PSP the the vida like even the the steam deck, that's one of the first ones you see and it's like, is IT gonna pop up sooner? We're going to get scan B, M. We going to on to the dig in monkey island on this singer. Is disney going to come around and say, hey, 对。

see, I look, I there's a part of me that the thing looking forward to most is some sort of retro windows and actilly or that just lets me run a non creative clive version of photoshop on an ipad that's coming right it's coming west Davis, our weekend at a post on thirds of video him playing um is the curb .

the canvas 科 by game but on the ipad D S for the intended .

D S but just playing IT with the styles and ipad and it's like a it's Better than any idea and apples .

I phone I had yeah like ool til I love that。

It's not great. I'm excited for at all. Little chaos is good for this market.

Yeah, I want you all to go. We're going to take a break. You all go. Just watched the argyle trailer.

Don't don't do that. Why would you tell people to do that? Go do anything with your life other than watch the ark.

I've never watched a movie where I i've like, openly wish the apple TV had a two x button just like because I can't stop in middle.

Yeah, you didn't. Don't just like walk out of the room like i'm going to go .

to I got to know it's just like, of course, this I watch so little stuff yeah because I gotta know. And then i'm like, committed and this my personality. Now like.

really, I think we need to just find the worst content possible. Me like you, you're in IT now.

You got to keep going in of suits. We have to take a break. I'm in a David a little bit, you right back.

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Out her back for me, I was the scene where he .

started ice skating way I haven't seen. Yeah, this is.

we cannot do this. Listen, sometimes I would say the verge cast is known for long diversions down strange rabid holes. This is just like objective cruelty .

to our audience. I just you know that famous story where tim cook looks at his routines like wire used to here. Yeah, I literally imagine him standing up in the Steve job theory when happened in the movie, being like.

why are you all still that you were found just crying, running.

meeting from the room is not good. I so much to say that how about this movie is okay.

That's a tuesday.

No, that do that .

on decoder. It's so the big review of these decisions and let's change that. Who are right. Speaking of the coder, there's an org chart change.

a google OK that's a good same way.

And I pull that one off. I was rehearsing that one.

Yeah, I love that.

I looked in the mirror morning. We're going to get this right today.

Just know IT.

Yeah so google google is .

getting a whole new york like is not just google， it's android, right? Because David, you you actually spoke with rick, you you get the whole the whole thing yeah.

So the place to start is that google is a famously well run company with an order structure that makes sense to everyone and is is structured in order to make everyone produce good work, right? We all agree on that as sort of the premise. All this, no, google is just object chaos all the time.

And this is like in large part deliberate, like the from the beginning, google whole thing has been like higher, really good people and just sort of like turn them loose. And it's just like a loose construction of smart people who make things. And that's fine as far that goes that tell you get gmail, which was somebody's twenty percent project twenty plus years ago.

Now it's also he get four hundred thousand messaging apps and all of the weird things that google has built and killed over the years. But basically the thing that I have come to understand all the last couple of days of talking to people, including this new team at google, which is basically a combination of google's hardware team, which is run by rick austral, and its android team a, which was run by ho chi law hammer h. Hershe, also ran from chromos, google photos, google one and smattering of other stuff, but basically oversaw like a lot of the most popular platforms where people actually interact with google stuff.

All of that is now being smashed into one team under rick astra. It's called the platforms and devices team. Uh and the idea very much is to make all of that into one teams so that they can run faster with A I like the whole story over and over is just A I.

We have to do things faster. We have to make our moves more quickly. We have to able to pay the faster to be able to build new stuff fester.

We need to have hardware, software and A I together. We need to have full stack everything like google. I think as we've seen over the last one eighteen months now, god caught sort of off guard by the speed with which A I took over the world.

That google built so much of this foundational technology and yet didn't be ChatGPT to market like that is a fAiling of that company. And they are now racing to keep up. And I think sort of smooching the hardware and software together, particularly on phones, uh, is A A pretty huge shift in trying to make that go faster. Have a number .

of questions here. One I think google was initially.

I was just laughing. I just laughing. I was like the speed with i've got some questions.

I i'm reading this little incident or chart yeah have a number of ideas about this shark chart change. But the core one is what you just said, which is google was caught off guard by chat G, P S, filing the company where it's it's been a year now. L, L, ms.

Are not as good as people said they were going to like the human like even if you imagine a version of the human pin where the harvard was perfect and that was fast, it's still like that's the wrong bridge yeah they just there is no way for them to fix that problem, right? And we have not seen any meaningful improvements on hlubis ation for any these models really. So you yeah, they were called off guard and then they were really worried the google search would go away. Sad yet. Nadella out there are been like, I make a dance I would IT is true that google started dancing.

They did a little tippy tap dance.

but such in the delay .

didn't do IT right. It's like biz that wasn't being has not been the beneficiary, he said. Dancing in any way, shape, perform google, I would say dancing without rymer's not a lot of rythm in the the dancing happening amount view agreed. And like if if you believe that is the thing is set them in action and are talking about like to what end?

I don't know if i'm being playing and I feel like this is the strange moment we've come to in A I like you had drew houston decoder this week, I think, and he repeated the line that soon approach. And others have said that AI is as important as fire like people just say that unirradiated, this is the most important thing that has ever happened to society like literally that to think people say out that and is IT there are any actual evidence of that so far.

I mean, I would say, yeah.

fire alex, fire. I would think there's an empty evidence. It's not crypto like I think.

no, no, no, yes. yeah. I think I think, lisa, I have talked about this a lot. He gets like weird to am text for me. Just feel like, do you think like A I is the biggest thing since if glitters .

not responding to this text with A I generator responses and what we're no .

she's always fully in the conversation um it's really nice that he returns my calls thank you this but I ever think that like, hey, I is artificial intelligence is a whole, not necessarily just general AI is a pretty big moment, right? Like like this is a form of automation that is that is enormous and and IT IT covers a whole lot of a different industries. And that kind of big sea change is very rare. And IT is big as the internet IT is is big as when we started automating machineries stuff like that, like it's a big moment, but IT happens in fitz and persons in stuff. And right now we're kind of in a who moment the technical term.

right? It's only obvious which things qualify in retrospect, right? Like if you if you are running one of these companies, you look at what the internet did twenty five years ago, and you look at what mobile did fifteen years ago, and you say, okay, a whole generation of companies died at the hands of these changes, and the world changed because of these changes.

Like if you believe that A I is the next one, you kind of have to bet everything right now even before it's ready because if you don't, you you'll get left behind by the companies that do. Uh, that's one side of the bed. The other side of the bed is the at this moment, there is nothing about A I and chatbot in this thing that is that important yet.

And and and so we're in this place where it's it's still, I think the like we got that incredible pop of like, oh my god, I cannot believe this thing as good as IT is when chat P. T. Launched and there has not been a moment that has surpassed that since then.

Maybe i'm wrong. I I would be curious to know if there are folks who feel like we've hit higher highs than that in terms of lake remarkable achievements in A I. But to me, IT feels like we're still writing that one single high. But if you believe that this is going to be as big and fast and powerful as so many these people do, you don't have a choice bt to bet everything on IT because others SE. You're just doing your self in your company, in your employees to death.

yes. Yeah and fine. I I think all of the big high point moments in A I since then early once like made the news broadly like broken into mainstream news. Not just this ship have been bad.

have been filers, swag e popes.

yeah like you weird, weird woke mind virus controversies. Like fake ones. Like, just like all over the place. Like bar, just getting dates wrong all over the like. The thing that is noted about this system is right now is that they don't know anything you we're going to talk about.

Met as a lunch this week, I generated a bunch of images of stuff and IT just like, doesn't know how college move yeah you know actually IT is like, oh, this isn't that useful and that so I just want stay there for once second, like you're making this bet because like we have to accelerate our A I moment still unclear like what that moment looks like in the end and maybe that the whole point is like, move faster. Figure out what's right and what's wrong. Astro gave you the example of the pixel camera.

Okay.

I get IT, but they ve been doing A.

S stuff for the pixel camera. A.

but this is an example here and is going to do that faster.

IT felt a little to me and and David maybe correct me very wrong. I felt a little like silicon m valley in particular is very hyped on AI right? Like like there the conversation is what are you doing with the AI if you're not doing something, you're stupid and a lot of this felt like almost an, uh, response to those people being like, yes, we also care about AI.

We're the big are big. This is our performative moment to tell you that we genuinely believe in this. But I was really for that audience. Not necessarily.

I think that's half right. Like I think that's exactly I think the other audiences is investors right to right now, if you want to continue to run the company that you run, you have to tell an AI story. You just do like that.

That is where we are. It's it's what everybody was doing with mobile ten years ago. Like if you didn't have a mobile strategy, what are you doing? Uh, now that that thing is A I right that mark socker a is the perfect example.

It's like mark doesn't talk about the metaverse anymore. Nobody wants to hear about the metaverse and they sell shares and meta when they do. And so now they're telling an A I story.

And in a lot of ways, the A I story in the universe story actually run together. But they talk about IT differently because that is how you win and you get people excited and you convince ce them that you are marching towards something huge. So I think you're right there. They're telling that sort of same story to two audiences because without them, they don't have the runway and talent they need to get there at all.

right? So this was but the first question OK, sorry, is this the right goal? right? Just, just the first one.

And I think the answer is probably yes. Like you have IT has to be the right answer. yeah. We have to show moving towards the school. We have to unify google's famously messy teams, BBA ba a ba ba.

Google now has google deep mind, which itself is a merger of google brain and deep mind, the CEO of that, demis sabis, who's bid on decoder, and I asked him, hold this merger working is like going to be find. Recently some my comments suggesting he's not so happy with IT. So right.

So then then you got google research in deep mind. We'll see how that's going. And then you've got this new group, which you know from a thousand yards if you squint in your hammer is like all this is they're doing an apple yeah they're doing hardwork and software in service is all under one roof to make Better complete products.

They're going to vertically integrate everything, right? When the ftc is like a stuff.

it's perfect tech.

I mean, you do have to be hammed yeah to make that clam like I don't but you see IT right? It's like you school, you know like, oh, you no. Do all the products over here they still have a same sung to deal with?

Like if google s like now the pixel rules because we made the software custom for the pixel. Do you want some of the samsung also, you just announced a bunch of our AI stuff in your phones. How are they going to manage that?

Google is very sensitive to this question. Um I raised this question to recon hero shi and the their response was essentially know you're wrong, everything is fine, the partners love us, don't even worry that IT A A para phrasing but only only judge .

but I think I mean they gave you a quote from the C A of qual com for a story just to be like c that's like do .

he sell chips to .

every he doesn't care and does not care if google and samsung .

beef ing as long as .

everybody power of two things going on here one um I think there's an interesting thing here to compare what google is doing to actually what panos pade did at microsoft, uh, which is he was running surface and then he was running surface and windows. And the way that they came to see IT was actually what we need to do is we need to make the best windows pcs and then give what we make back to the ecosystem.

So like the surface, I am actually pioneer a lot of things that really worked well on windows. They did a lot of work on the handlers, ding stuff. They did a lot of work, tata les, and then essentially gave that back to partners who are unable to make Better windows pcs. result.

Can I tell you start? sure. I think I can tell the story.

This isn't work anymore, right? So when I favorite moment and walking around a microsoft booth with ponies, uh, and we're talking about that exact concept, what, why do you make these things? So the surface machines were there and the partner machines were there.

And only this has gotta weird for you. He was like, learning, let me show something. Ponies like, no, and let me show something. yeah. And he was like, that's my hinch and he was sapp.

Inter in one of the partner machines is like we that's our hinch and that my displayed bb like he was like, this is all our stuff. And like what we're doing, like we're to spending the money to innovate because none of these ims can outspend apple. So this is worth IT to us. And I asked him for years to give me that story like in a printable way. But obviously, on the partners are going to like that on us.

but I think there's something to that, right? And if you are the company with the resources to feed the ecosystem, you can kind of rising tide, lift all boats that situation. And if you're google and what you need is for A I to win broadly and for german I to win specifically doing that work on the pixel and then giving IT to samsung theatre, redick works for everybody.

Uh, I I say theoretically because I think sam song has a long history of not being seeked about google situation internally. Anyway, tin, I guess, still exists. Uh, I would not bet samsung is thrilled with this change at google, but I do buy the theory that if google manages this correctly, IT could IT could pull android A I as a whole along with IT. Well, you're talking about phones.

We have been talking about phones mainly, but it's not just going to be the phones, right, like it's going to be the TV and the watches and all the other places too where samsung doesn't have as bigger a shareholder like samsung VS. They sell a lot of tvs mainly to nei, but no ties.

baby.

I love IT, but that's a good sound. Actually the ties and start up sound on the TV do do, do is like .

just sounds action .

for but but there is all this .

other stuff and and in those cases, like, yes, this makes a lot of sense, right? Like.

okay, let me give you the counter example.

Okay.

just before you go off into android TV, because there's nothing I want to talk about more about the reason .

success of android .

TV all you think about I know google bought motorola famously yeah in andy rowing, the founder of android who were to google that time was is another day is walking around CS. And he saw how hard samsung was skinning android got furious, locked into a battle with samsung to bring them back into the fold and .

ruin android less yeah touch .

with in the deal was google had to sell motorola to lenovo. That that was the concession that samsung tracked to stop IT like IT wasn't because I yelled at them about making bloop, bloop sounds and having making everyone go to the bathroom because of touch with IT was because andy rubin is like, what are you doing? I will sell motor a and stop competing with you directly if you real touch was back in. That's a lot right and many things have happens and and we've now is called one you like it's all different now goods and then bought the fAiling HTC turn that into whatever pixel we have not like the relationships are different IT seems like the tensions are different. But there is actually history of samsung being so irritated that google would compete with a head up by buying motorway that IT started peeling people off and gay will had to make the big concession yeah yeah.

But at the same time, touch with socked like IT was hurting samsung g plus.

Ah you know many people IT was hurting me to look at IT.

So I just famously.

someone has called this show and insisted that ladies love the way. This is a real thing that has happened on the shoe before, forgot the proper joe baby. Run the clip.

We will put the clip in in the shown. It's that's a real thing that has happened. We've been doing the show far a very long time.

Yes, um I don't know people long time, I don't know. That was a good idea. I'm just saying that tension was there. Part of the reason ties exist is because stamps ung wanted its own Operating system.

IT does not want to wants to be in control of its future, right? And IT has a massive dependency on google in fones. And IT did not want that in TV anywhere else. IT doesn't want these dependencies. I'm just saying you look at this and you know like older you know you do your drunk thousand years square if this orca changed like oh, you're going to walk and right back .

into IT I call that .

the two A M list text crept .

yeah I think that's right. I guess I think the thing that is different from ten years ago is like where you're going to go. Like samsung knows tithing is not a move at this point. Uh, there's just no, there's no option outside of android if you are a smart phone manufacturers. Samsung, if IT made the android worse or try to go the the A O S P route and build their own apps like IT didn't work last time and IT super wouldn't work this time yeah. And the other side is if you believe that A I is the thing, you need google more than ever because like has been way out in front of promoting geri, it's getting a lot of these gami features ahead of pixel. In some cases, like I I think if if you believe in the A I revolution, samsung is actually sort of forced to increase its dependency on google, not try to get away from .

IT mean what if they end up going with like harmony O S or whatever always Operating system is all right.

that is that going for for them in the U S?

You know I gray, but you like I don't know. I think I don't want to just immediately say they are they're totally locked into android, although they they very much are. I think there is like options available to them, especially as we have this.

I say this in all, sincerely make me a list of those options.

Yeah, it's hard OS they just going to go all in .

on the chinese market. You need middle are and super apps.

Got us there.

Yeah, I was common, inevitably. Yeah, I mix. I'm hopeful for a more focused, faster google.

That's what rk saying. You wants to you want to move everything faster. You wants to shit more things.

I think the best in google to do to kill even more products actually right now just reduce the number of apple products by half and then loudly announced that they will just keep iterating these products for five years. That be cool. That would be a huge change.

Do you member like twenty or leaving when Larry page came back a CEO and he did, I think IT was on an investor call, uh, said the he gave the whole like more woods behind, fewer arrows speech and then google promptly killed a whole bunch of stuff that have been working on uh, like this is just the google cycle, right? They're like they realize, oh, we're not making enough money and order. The world is changing.

The first time that was about google plus was like we're going to be everything or on social went super great and that's why we all use google plus now, uh, it's just the same thing again, right? Like google sort of lets its company sprake, lets everything get weird higher. Lots of people build a million messaging apps.

And then at some point you go, oh, this is actually making us interesting, but it's making a slow and we have to all point in one direction now and that's what you do when you have to point in one direction. And for google, that one direction is very much A I like they made a couple of other little work changes, uh, today as part of this announcement at deep mind. And google research elsewhere and like solar, appreciate in particular is very clear that the message is like move faster and move toward the eye like that is google's job for the foreseeable future will IT work yes, because google is a famously well run company with a culture and structure that makes total sense.

Well, google I O is coming up next month.

Yeah, that's right. I anticipate .

we we end up talking to all of these folks and I every year so well to see how it's going like one month and IT work.

Just stare really and then .

I suit arper chide will say yes IT.

And then right, you know, we have meta is companion ChatGPT in our list here. They are not. They announced AI products. Is there everywhere you can chat with a meta AI on literally any meta surface. You can think of instagram. And what's that for some reason I have you done now I have gone directly to meta that AI and only asked to produce images of jesus made of.

The true correct is uh .

which IT won't do IT IT will not produce any religious echo graphically. If you ask you to produce images of a middle estate information times made of forgotten, you will .

happily do that but it's not jesus .

pursue you know.

you can is open to .

interpretation. You can get to A A state. You can prompt, engineer your way into something .

that I really more genes.

So the reason I mentioned this, just to point out, this has been going on for months now. Ah crazy AI generated images are constantly going fireable on facebook uh, the last one I think our friends hard for covered IT uh jesus as a crab, just like hundreds of thousands of likes. And there's crab and shrimp .

I shrimp S I totally yeah I think hard fork was shrimp.

Jesus is also know carston ization is like a real phenomenon lotion, where everything turns into a crab. And then that has been true of the egerton jesus as well on these platforms. And in the one that just killed me, it's a quick person, as I wrote, you can go into IT. Uh, the invention changes made of speaking and alamo.

So good.

The last one I saw had thirty six thousand lakes. Oh my god, it's very good um and I know if that is going to release A I tools. We're got to see if we can just close the loop yeah and the the answer is no actually that speakee jesus on a lambo is not nearly as good as the ones that are currently and sort of so whatever tool of the slammers are using a little bit ahead of meta tools currently.

I like that's good for them to be a little bit behind the own users. That feels right. I do think it's just just though that part of this also matter released lama three, which is the new version of its own a LLM and IT seems in a very real way like we have a pretty strong sort of four party race right now between claude from anthropic, uh, GPT, whatever germany and now lama to be like the model we're in this space where I like he fears, like computer chips from a million years ago and like every subsequent one that comes out every two weeks is like a little bit faster. And just the sort of speed and success is going up really fast. But these four companies are all like deep in IT, have a ton of money, they're very invested and IT is IT is kind of a happening really fast.

Yeah, although I don't know that it's quite like computer chips and that they are all bad in different ways. Fair right. Like as chatbot, uh, mollie White, who writes web three is going to great. He said news just like i'm interested this like i'm more positive on the people think given how he feels a good willing to the news letter well but she's like I asked you to write this newsletter and he has all the results, all the four and she's like the thing about them is I told that to write like me and I just is scalding you like they write like angry school teachers who is your phrase and it's like that's the thing like they can generate copy. Is there a reliable way for anyone to say whether the copy is generated is getting Better or worse, even within a single model or .

as a critic in an editor? Yes, but I don't want to read at all. But you .

look at like four columns of like middle work and you know like rank these what in that way.

It's actually kind of an interesting parallel t of the computer chips thing because we're we're in the face where they're all passing benchmark tests with increasingly impressive scores that don't mean much to real people. And the question is like, is anyone actually going to make real use of this sort of raw capability of this stuff? IT means anything, anybody? Uh, and so far i'd the answer is largely not really yeah.

but I do think one interesting piece of the meta puzzle list is that has massive distribution in a zero percent afraid of using IT ah you like if you use a mata product. Boy, is there A I next to now it's just happening. It's just here. IT is just talking to you. I meet as A I showed in a facebook group for people with gifted and disabled children made up a child that had instead, I was very happy in the new york city public schools.

Oh no.

Yeah, that's thing. And someone said, was this black mier? And then I responded, no, it's not.

It's just meet to a that I was .

like a story and four four which we also link many links, links everyone. I'm just saying the most notable stuff of this air and I was like when it's going to .

a little sideways, yeah I mean, they've ve gotten really, really good and making machines that are impressive that confidently lying yeah and that's the go I mean, always been the goal yeah like just go put a little suit on and and have to run .

for office like it's got IT down finally .

a president yeah laa three .

like i'm shrimp. Jesus, i'm proud to be american. That's enough. I talk with sucked with the real thing, many television.

Yeah, we have to TV we been heavy.

Man, sorry, I will see updates. A sense for awesome.

Interpolating.

alright. So SONY, this is the the most important story .

of the year. And with you for now till next .

week i'm telling there's a revolution in tvs happening. Just walk in. All the TV makers .

are like like kids yeah because I do.

Uh so at C S, as last year, we saw a bunches of mini ality televisions I conferences produces. Minorities would bring Prices down and people start buying bigger tvs. There is a little bit of data is where there is a little bit data about some other thing that i'll talk about.

The second SONY has started skipping. Yes, they dit for years. They announced their tvs this year SONY slowly pulling back for olets.

Just really interesting. Uh, so the, oh, I have the a ninety five Q T OLED quana. Oh, very right, very colorful.

They just stick around. No updates to the fight ship. Let them say.

wow.

all of the flagship tvs or mini d tvs, they are the bravia nines uh SONY won't tell you how many backlight sounds they have. They will just tell you increasing percentages incredible chart. They're just like three hundred and twenty five percent and more .

timing sons, just more.

just more.

Don't worry about it's just .

the one um so I and that three and twenty and five percent more than last year's ninety five years, which i've seen just a beautiful TV that only if you're paying attention to do you see any blooming now it's brighter. There's three hundred and twenty five percent more zones.

I'm anticipating that they're be no blooming ing or IT will be even harder to see, which means you can now get gigg antic, super bright L, D, bright T, V, with the black levels of OLED without the burning problems. How much is Better for gaming? Because IT fast refresh billies yeah no.

I I totally am all for that and he was someone with a twenty seventeen and OLED really you cannot understand how much i'm all for that.

It's also fifty percent prior, and i'm just talking .

how much is IT.

They are not they're not like A A number that's good.

Now I tell the people, tell the people what is the cheapest one of these cost.

the the sixty five inch is thirty to ninety nine, which is not out of work with top and dole's S I say that.

can I just say that president was slated differently? Yeah, IT costs three thousand, two hundred and ninety nine dollars. And ninety years thirty two ninety nine is like, oh, thirty two bucks. That's what a Normal T. V cost. Now.

no, no, you're going have to stand in the wall for ten years. You're out there a cross shopping L G G three year like, oh, that's interesting the tom saying.

yeah, you're going to have IT on your wall for two years and the new line patel is going to call on the verge cast in twenty twenty five and save listen everybody, there's another three hundred and twenty five percent.

Here's the problem. Ninety five only goes up to seventy seven inches and the top and robby and nine or eighty five years.

which is five thousand .

four hundred nine hundred dollars. I just thought this TV last september, like, what am I doing? It's this is bad, like I just send to college, right? You like that's going to a couple days of college for the time.

It's like some text yeah a single .

text .

yeah you get twenty four hours in the storm. I bought a new TV. Uh h i'm just saying these tvs represent a huge shift from OLED in this market. Yeah, this is when it's starting to happen, and I think that means the rest of the tps are going to cheaper. Like these are the crazy top ends that are slip and pete with the high and olives, they have insane features.

They, uh, we were so far from the motion swithin debate generally like regular, you know regular people, tvs draw motion with thing at the high end of the market. Now the TV have built in calibrated modes for the services where the services can calibrate your TV for whatever they are streaming. So prime video calibrated on the new SONY roban ions will know if you're watching a movie or you're watching monday night football and recover the TV for you automatically.

But that will only work if you use this, the smart T, V function they have .

can not talk with the details if you want to run. Roby, a car in streaming at eighteen megabits per second.

you got, he's so tired.

got to make some sacrifice.

By the way, there's some debate in a comments of Chris walch, a story about this, about whether it's called bravia core or any pictures core absolutely cleared up. It's only a bravia core and bravia tvs or should the only place the platform supports eighty mega bits per second pure stream, every else that SONY pictures score IT doesn't have the one feature that's good.

The SONY pictures score is the bad one.

So any picture score is like, what if we made IT not good streaming service with a small cat? Like, what if we made a streaming service where you open IT and was like, madam, weed is the thing we got.

Just see you turn that off.

Yeah, I just didn't. I didn't redeem my credits for me.

No, I will say SONY does a thing that I appreciate, which is they just they make the TV. This is just the dope T, V. And they're like, whatever IT costs, no problem.

But like this fifty, five hundred and one is enormous. IT has, uh, what was that called? Like X Y angle for the viewing angle stuff. IT has amazing speakers.

It's like, I just SONY does the thing that I like, whether I like here is the luxury version, and we are just going to slowly make that one cheaper over time. And someday in twenty sixty one, I will earn this executive in my house. And I can look, I can it's going .

to take a long time. That's the Robin in the top ends. So the flagships on tvs here are minorities and five, which soldier on?

yeah. Well, I mean, that's good though, because you don't regret buying the of the photo.

I don't want to say at this time. Then the the one step down, the gravy ates are regular olets, not the cut olid I have in ninety five. They've got all the same stuff.

But you can just see SONY is what their biggest best to push is minions. I think the rest industry to follow them, then there's actually cheaper mini TV. I don't have all of the stuff I think .

you use cheaper, generous ly.

a very relative term.

Twenty three hundred dollars for sixty five entremets is like that is as good as the x ninety five is dead on competitive with a note with the end of .

what I think I I needed just what in my house next to my twenty seventeen or LED to see which is Better. I like good next to each other and see if it's truly Better.

So I will end my now gushing over someone because I haven't seen, I know, I don't know if these are as good as I want them to be. I know three hundred, twenty and five percent more deming's mean, I don't know.

These auto calibrated modes are required to use their weird software that basically tries to like ransom into enabling samba interactive TV, which watches your every move like a hawk to saw IT to some sarroch ling data bright, that's all just there. I'm understated picture quality while you can see what's happening in this market. Next to that is the fuck in frame TV, which is like omy the chart.

And I just wanted tell the story about the rootless text. You can still send me the redis text i've received and I feel comfortable saying this because I post about IT and casey revealed himself yeah so case and my friends, you can tell by the tone of place and so you know, he just got new house. He's like, every excited, every spin stuff.

I just got new house. And he is like, shy by friend TV. He sent me a texted twelve thirty in the morning and he's in the west coast of his coast.

And I believe this conversation to another full hour. I guys like, I can't let this cuss. Something is wrong in the internet.

Yeah like, you couldn't sleep that I until .

you get that done. I tried so hard to make this man. But as like you play video games, do you like quality?

What what? Why do you want the frame?

Because in the end, IT was revealed that all of the people he was asking own friend tvs, including me, I, two ones just in the studio, in the pocket, in my house, that just shows the decoder logo. That's all. Does IT just .

have a beautiful puzzle?

IT was a yeah it's it's sure sure.

I'm trying to help you here. And i'm saying the frame .

TV is like a ten year old L, C, D panel with a single back like no dimming zones. It's just a bad T V. Yeah but people like IT because the the display is matt and most people don't actually watch their tvs anymore. They watch tiktok.

Can I can I flow of theory at you that maybe people don't care about three hundred and twenty five percent more diving zones anymore.

They don't care about TV anymore. I think the frame TV is the the harbinger of doom. What's the problem? what? What is the thing all streaming services are facing? People are saying, okay, there's going to be a big by wreckage of my house. I wanted to look best one, it's off because it's mostly off.

We I just realized the SONY TV is basically like a cool gaming PC to the the frames imac. I've never I don't think .

I ever wanted to melt as much as I currently wish to melt.

If so many I have in your house. You this .

is why just sounds is going to be a huge hit on, because nobody watches their T.

V. I keep making a joke that I could write ten thousand words with the frame TV IT. Definitely code black, ran into a camp a one hour. We can edit together.

But on saying, as you look at the market, you look at the the quality of tvs are coming, where there is a technology shift in the TV industry underway right now with these many cities, I think really, really cool. And then you look at what people are spending the money on, like what people think the best TV market is, what's still Price you we're worried about these Prices. Go look at the frame when it's not on sale. You're buying a twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen vintage, you know edge lit L C T. Like it's bad and they are charging the Prices of an OLED because the display is matt and you can pay fitch box for heart sore and people like that the best TV you can buy.

That's why samsung will stick with android on the phone.

On the phone.

It's all comes back to the phone and android. Why is that?

I just forgot because the ties and up stores kill on the .

those bad joke. Keep done.

right? We just got the world. I know I was saying, keep renting forever and ever and ever.

I like that though. I'm telling you the frame TV is the harbor of doom for the string services. Just people like we don't watch this thing. We're going to pay a premium. Oh.

you're saying because the TV is so crappy that when they do watch IT, we'll be like.

what's the point people are buying A T V intentionally to and not watch IT. As I say, the point of A T V is no longer to be watched.

right? It's to just be there. It's like a bini yeah like if I need a TV, i'll turn on this thing and I don't really care IT looks like the rest of time it's gona show .

me a is is that many people though?

IT is I would argue the frame TV is samsung mais important product. IT is a product that has the most impact on the culture today. A thousand words.

ten thousand words. I like I know I read all of these.

I know, what am I going to own two pocket a week? I can't even justify to to this group of people. We should talk with the frame TV that everyone I need to a week off.

I got a lot of emails asking for your ten thousand words on the frame TV. I think we're we're going to have to just .

do this at some point of the time out the time.

Let's do one more TV related just to end the segment in place of hope and optimism. You know, are we from .

me like crazy to change is crazy because one of .

the things they noticed in the SONY story that these tvs will have A T S C people to them. yeah. And this week was the big a broadcasting conference in less vegas and A B and everybody was making lots of announcements. And the big announcement some of the big announcements I was excited about was from rocky I who we cover back and see yes. And nbc universal peacock, some sort of distantly related cousin of hours ah .

there is no way i'm sorry to that. There's .

almost .

yes.

is is a part investor in us, okay? And p cock.

we just think we don't know that means .

basically friends with .

a good day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the worst is.

I'm basically friends is all day.

That's what you just close. sure. But but they both announced that they were bringing a new technology to A T sc three point.

Right now, there's a couple of channels in the country that broadcast on this spectrum that that use A T S C. No, not a lot. And right now, if you're going to watch shows on those canals, it's just Normal TV. There is no reason to be excited. But coming soon because of roxy, you're going to be able to pause and skip in your local news and then on the today show, but I know everyone listening.

huge thing. You'll be able to do the same.

You were the nbc universal stuff. And so it's like, it's a little bit little little, yeah, a little bit little little. Something happened there and eventually there could be something really cool. I still keep being like one of these days p cock, as is just gna be on nbc and that'll just be the new nbc.

And was the strip te over there? I got, I got you today. The thing I want to real about the story is that when alex was writing IT, SHE realized that her TV does .

not have a sc through. No IT does.

Now get out there every tour.

immediate .

trovan ines. We to take a break. I'm kill. I've worn in David down. This is what you get.

This is your full. My TCL roku TV is quaking over here.

Oh my god, no, that's just subset. Don't say you have a two .

row on this power are ruthlessly mining .

your data yeah.

all of right. We have to take a break where we'll right back with David pierce tiktok headline glitz got hey.

it's lee from decoder with the detail. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why do they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving, some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in deciding not to acquire and instead license can hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month.

Deter with the presented by strike. You can listen to decoder or ever you get your support for the verge. Cast comes from the home. Deep boo, hey, it's almost the holidays.

And whether you're planning to travel or host, it's always good to have that extra layer of safety and security to help ease your mind. And now with help from the home deepo, you can stay connected and protected with the convenience of smart home security products. The home depot offers a wide selection of products that afford you easy control and automation of your home with top smart home brands like ring, google, wise and more. From smart cameras with forecasts, surveilLance to doorbell that can be Operated from your smart phone, the home deep boo has at all, whether you an expert or new to smart homes tech, the home depot can help you find what works for you and your home, visit the home debo online or in store, and purchase your smart home products to give some piece of mind this holiday season because smart home start at .

the home deepo support .

for the verge cast comes from the home deep boo. Hey, it's almost the holidays. And whether you're planning to travel or host, it's always good to have that extra layer of safety and security to help ease your mind. And now with help from the home deepo, you can stay connected and protected. With the convenience of smart home security products. The home depot offers a wide selection of products that afford you easy control and automation of your home, with top smart home brands like ring, google, wise and more, from smart cameras with forecasts, surveilLance to doorbell that can be Operated from your smart phone. The home deep boo has at all, whether you an expert or new to smart homes tech, the home depot can help you find what works for you and your home, visit the home depot online or in store, and purchase your smart home products to give some piece of mind this holiday season, because smart home start at the home deep.

I were back. I would say that it's when there's not quite enough news is when our show goes the longest. I don't know why that is, but that has been true for ten years.

I think it's when I give you too much time to mess with the run down before i'm going to start revealing the verge cast to you .

four and just a live reacts. We can just do a box in me reacting so you doing the verge st the whole time. It's rare that we get to show that.

So out of control that we bring up big poppa joe, here we are. That's a lot. alright.

We we got to rap this thing up. We're just way, way over one. I've promised IT.

And now it's here. David pierce, headline blitz. David.

take you away. I would like to just briefly catch you up on all of the things that are happening with tiktok because tiktok is not the end. IT is still here and this is wild is just how I think.

So here's what is gone on in tiktok land just until last time we did this show together in the studio, tiktok notes is an APP that is coming out. It's only available in a couple of countries, but it's straight m tiktok just did instagram and nearly here. Would you like instagram? Tiktok made IT.

So that's the thing that exist ah there are also now ways to buy event tickets like concert tickets and up inside of tiktok because tiktok hasn't fun enough ways to sell you stuff. They want to sell you more stuff. I think that is gonna work.

I think like all of this concert stuff is going to move inside of music apps and really interesting ways. I think tiktok is going to do IT first and it's going really fascinating. There's been a bunch of lake non news news about the tiktok investment stuff.

There's a new bill in the house that is being attached to, uh, aid to foreign countries that is partly now also a tiktok bin. So it's possible that, that is going to move to the senate much more quickly where they are going to have to talk about the investment in banning. The president has said that he's gonna potentially delay another six months to make this all happen again.

Uh, tiktok has said it's going to restrict people who put keep posting problematic stuff on the for you feed ah IT also was reported this week that all of this project texas stuff, which I would say we have relentless lesly made fun of on the show for a long time, is basically just a venture nonsense. And bats has access to lots of us users. Tiktok data.

Uh, twitch and spotify continue to do their best tiktok impressions. Uh, spotify is rolling out of remix things. You can start to play with music in the same way that you can play with sounds and stay up on tiktok.

Twitch is doing up for you feed basically. I don't know how to say that more than that. They just did up for you feed for twitch, which I think is actually very smart.

The world is tiktok now like everybody is trying to become tiktok and tiktok is trying to become everybody else. And maybe it'll be banned and maybe you want. And that's what I got.

I will say that take talk trying to sell stuff relentlessly is just reaching new levels of weirdness. For me personally.

I found a solution OK. Okay, here's what you guys are going to do. You're going to go on tiktok.

You're going to search deep talk one where deep talk, and then you're going to watch a bunch of those videos. They're going be really weird. They're going to be nonsensical. You're going be really confused. You can be like this is just looks like what kanzas brain looks like on the inside and you like a few of those and then you're on deep talk and you're no longer on a shop talk OK.

It's great. I when I say all A I right now is my experience with that is like weird and bad yeah tiktok believes I want to coil things that look like ropes so much it's like you're gona buy a garden hose reel. You're gonna an extension cord real you're going to buy a USB cord real, which I don't think you should be doing at all. It's just like, have you thought about real? I am just by am now in the the pitches are increasingly abstract in a little threatened yeah like they're like you will feel guilt if you don't get in on this whose real deal?

Now mine is a puppy.

It's really bad, bad skateboarding .

on a leaf. Overwater saw my tiktok keys right now. It's great. I'm like, I don't know what the health happening.

just ying. There's there are people out there right now who have bought like upwards of a thousand nose because this algorithm just the ruthlessly manipulated them.

Yeah, I mean, I did buy something not different from tiktok, but they should be a trainer. And I when I got on an amazon, it's great.

Do we have a sense of the senate bill might be moving? Do have a sense of it's going to happen on at the moment?

Not exactly. But uh, more in finer just really destroyed that. The the general assumption is that because it's tied to foreign a, the center is basically going to have no choice but to talk about IT like where are we ended the last bit is the senate is just sort of studiously pretending IT doesn't exist. Uh, that is going to be less possible now. Uh, and it's it's I think it's gonna get raised one where another where IT goes seems to be anyone to guess .

we have time for I think two more you that was David headline and everyone said, David, please I A note you like more headline lets in .

the future response or the headline blitz inside .

of the living around you you like to it's available for sponsor ships at this time. We're still we're very close. Just everyone close your eyes and send good vibes for slightly ing around sponsor and then we'll move on to the headline. Bloods 2说是 yeah .

so boston dynamics， they make the the roles yeah they make the robots. Earlier this week they said oodbms e at at less and then the very next day they said hello to new atlas in the most terrifying video of all time. Yeah, we're like the legs did like some weird three hundred six degree in stuff. The head looks like some sort of lamp IT basically looks like a video game monster and and then we wrote about how you need to have hair.

Did we did? That was a good pitch ROM alics. yeah. And I said, just make sure it's over reported. And boy, did eve piles or over report the story of .

my robots need hair. Just asking directly, some poor scientists, do you think the robot would be less creepy with fur? And the robots like.

no, the scientist who was like, not the rope, you don't ask.

The robot won't make IT less free.

No way about that was just .

writing by a robot. Give the robots hair written by a robot. You should watch the video, our uh, former virg reporter, James vince, I believe his post on the video was, it's funny. The boston dynamics is directly into terrifying yeah.

just oh yeah, horrifying.

horrifying. It's very good because .

IT looks like a person, but IT moves like a hora movie. This is right. What the person training watching, here's fine.

I just want to end with this because I just going to say so so this is fine. I just want to end with this. I don't know why I think this is so funny. Uh, samsung is requiring its executives to come to work for six days a week now, to quote, inject a sense of crisis.

Yeah, they get to get around that.

Google rey's k we same sung is like, we want to make this worse for anyone.

So they've had disappointing financial results. Sales are down. They fell short of expectations.

And two and twenty three, it's a crisis. We need to make you feel the crisis. The executives are now doing a sixty work week until something. And I but you know theoretically, i'm an executive at this so organization. I feel like if I am going to come to work one extra day a week, but it's just executives having ideas about how to not come to work anymore, I feel very safe. Like you're going to have the worst ideas.

have fun by yourself.

Like here's what we everyone have more meetings on saturday about how it's a crisis that will solve the crisis. I cannot wait for the weird shit samsung is about to start doing. Like just fully, they just did to buy one, get one free.

T V. Deo, that's a six day york week idea, like fully a sixth day work. K A, they're going to start giving away toaster when you open a bank. It's going to be incredible. They're going to have the wilderness guy .

in the lots outside the best coming bixby.

full bixby. But like goth bixby, like get some attention. I finally saw the video of what's your name?

Just crawl them out of the water. Go, go. Jj.

in a country album. Let's see if that works. Like can you imagine what a bunch of executives, unconstrained by the reality of making or doing anything yeah trapped in the office together on saturday? IT told it's a crisis and they can't go home on saturdays until the crisis. Just imagine it's going to be incredible. I can't wait for what happens this year.

Samson. We're going to .

get some cool stuff every TV for 3d TV。

Like just book anything a curve and with A I inside, it's good. Yeah so the whole arrest the world.

drew houston eaters. Like we're going fully remote there. You don't push your employees. You get Better innovation. You can sam, times like saturdays.

yeah, we just gonna stand over you and breathe.

Someone there is is currently pitching, bringing back the galaxy note, but now that has two stylists and everybody breaking out of that.

how saying that is just a bat like in in the lead times on new products are long yeah.

So like four years from now, we going to .

be like what yes.

instead of a stylus s it's non checks and .

working to look back on today. Yeah right. You can direct late pop all .

the way back to that. It's going to laptop.

but it's fifty four inches. I'm saying is .

i'm going to start calling whatever happens next. We just had to start calling IT saturday samsung. Yeah just as a family.

Can we agree on that? yes.

okay. I hope as as a as a person who is an Fiona of weird SONY, i'm very hopeful for the opportunity. Saturday Samson .

party speakers.

right? Where are they?

It's coming where someone going to answer to U.

L, T, pro .

somewhere.

Come on. What was that little robot we saw that could? Boy.

I was just about to say, boy, about to get a lot of shine. Bali is a main character.

Go boi, go. Alright.

that's IT where way over time, we're just completely over. I apologize, but I don't apologize because the feed back we get is you like this to be six hours long, so we'll do that next week. All right? That's a that's a very chest.

And that's IT for the bird cat this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six bird, one one. The verge cases, the production of the verge and box media podcast network, our showers produced by hand rer marino and leon James, that's IT. We'll see you next week.

Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business, ford, with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, italian, from decoder with neither top, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why do they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into summer, the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listen to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially I mean A I space, why are so many big players in tech to not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with your life Better presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whether you get your podcast.