The iPhone 16 is here — but it's not finished
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Welcome to the verge cast the flagship podcast of the a eighteen and a eighteen pro, which are different things. This is our apple event special. I'm in friend David piers x cranes.

here I are. They different? Honestly.

I couldn't tell you, but will get that me, I tellers here.

Hi, thirty five flops. So you get for me, you want to thirty six, you get thirty five. That's a deal in the table. yeah. okay.

First one is very important, me, that you describe your whole set up right now, both for people who can watch, who would like to know what happening, and also for people who can't just paint this a word picture of your current set up right now.

I'm in my hotel room in Sunny vale, california. I just came from apple park. There's Davids running the show because I have no body.

What's going on? I was in apple's ambient experience. I think you're going na get a new phone or you're going to be at a rap shirt.

That's my experience. Every time I go to up, I don't know what's going to have. But now I was just at the apple event with our whole crew.

V, S. And Chris, well, shovel, we had a great time. We ran around, played a few phones, and i'm in my hotel room, which I have attempted to turn in your pocket studio. IT went six.

Okay, what's how's the lamp tells .

about the lamp? The lamp is glued to the table. I very late. I'm on the west. Uh, ever else is on the east coast because they did didn't come. They they banded me to apple and you've been very patient while I tried to make this rework. And the lamping glued to the table really through IT. You know, you like leave a room and like, I know what i'm going to do when I get back to that room and he walk back in the room in the lab is .

glued to the table.

I don't also metaphor, I think about to other people, but in my back, and I just played with the phones and met a bunch people. I talked to feel shower for five minutes about camera button, which is a fascinating conversation, really rock.

I am very excited because he does feel like a solid two thirds of this episode is going to be about camera button. But let's go back to the begin. You are saying, like before the event even started, that the vibe of this event at the thave jobs theatre was unusual.

Uh, and you ve vent a million of this. And so just to hear you be like, this is not how this room Normally feels is fascinating. So like, what was the room?

Yeah I don't want to do to a immediate criticism on our show. There's anything criticism which is media talking about itself, sure, but the mix of people in that space was different than before. I was a tangerang ly different than before.

There is a lot more foreign press there, more, uh, tiktok creators column. Uh, I would like a different, Younger, more visual video crowd than if everyone sex thrilled like I think for a lot of people, is the first time at the apple of that. So you just had this like surge of enthusiasm and then all the old heads in the corner like grumbling about how the kids don't know what they're. So we stick. And I think that's a healthy it's a healthy tension.

yeah. I mean, if you rewind a decade, IT was just like the old heads and apple employees at those events.

right? Well, no, I was like I was like the legendary print reviewers and me being, like here. So i'm going to do, i'm going to take a photo upload to the internet right away and they were like, what are these bloggers doing? Get them out of my face.

I got to have get a .

print for three days. Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, the circle of life, but the point I kept making in their lifetime g was that the room was super enthusiastic, which we just have not seen in my quite a while, right? The obviously is cover.

A bunch of people came back. I think I will turn over its crowd past a few people. IT feels like the big change was the dramatic increase in international press that that feels like the big change. I don't have the numbers and an apple data that just seems like they widen the Operator of who was covering in the event and they cut ted a more lively atmosphere.

interesting. I do miss the like I I mostly don't miss apple event is when i'm not at apple event is but there is something kind of lovely about the sea job sitter like it's it's a nice place. They did a very good job with the deep job here.

did a good job, and they opened a new building for this event called the observatory, which is just like over the hill around the corner. And that's the the new like briefing space. So they have the Steve theatre was too small the day opened.

They have been saying this since later the day opened like this was too small because they know they designed in a very different time. IT took a long time to build and design, improve. It's always been too small.

And in particular, the the sort of spaces with an network can like have conversations always too small. So they built an entirely, you think, called the observation tory, where they are having additional meetings and stuff because they have so many more people there now. And this is real, is like this like glass window that looks a rapper park.

Apple sent some photos to magazine called disease today. We were not allow to take photos. You can look at its very cool and that sort of their space for after the event, because they have so many more people to talk to.

that's cool. There is nothing more apple than, look, we built this very cool building. You are not allowed to photograph like that. That Johnny ve, the spirit of the members. And it's let's talk about the anatomy.

I think let's do IT in reverse order, kind of of how apple did IT just because we have to sort the phone right. Like the phones is the thing, uh, there were watches. There were airports and their phones, those with big three. Uh, both of you, I believe, last week said that we weren't gonna get max. Congratulations on all of your accomplishments.

We should not get A T, V.

I was devastated. Lasso, no appearance. Very upsetting. Jason to degress wasn't even there. As far as I know, he's just like shooting lefty. Three, is A W, B, A again?

Still, time cook was like, this is some of our breakthrough and meaningful innovations yet as I other doing a TV and IT was not to be now at last.

but the phones got bigger, which is were on the way to a television. Yeah, the Price is dragani.

Yeah.

yeah. But let's let's do. Let's start with the cheapest phones and then go up to the most expensive fits. And alex, you just want to like brief run down of the iphone sixteen and sixteen plus. Yeah and yeah, the iphone .

sixteen and six plus are like good. They're exciting. Is if I think I think the big difference is a lot of the stuff is new on these as well.

Specifically, the camera control are I D E camera button, shuttle button. Although I think, neil, I probably have some feelings about that. So maybe we don't call at the shuttle button, but it's it's got camera control.

It's got the action button, which was on the pro last year. It's one to two thousand nets. It's got the ceremony shield. So you should theoretically be able to drop IT with mineral al scratches, the eighteen and visual intelligence, which is kind of like google ends but but apple did IT yeah, but apple did IT. And IT goes through like the camera control button and most of the stuff.

They really spent most of the time talking about the action button and the camera control, which like, as a button lover, I was related, but other people I don't know. And the colors are different this time too, right? Like got we ve got a blue, got this steel like bluish till we got the pink, we ve got a purple. It's it's similar vely colors. And so this is .

my first question. Actually, nei, you've seen these phones. Apple described the colors as, uh, I I believe the quote was more viBrant.

ViBrant was a word that was used. Uh, are they thoughts? You've seen these things, some of them, right?

What's the very yeah, great. The pink is very pink. The blue is very blue like they are.

They are in fact very viable. The very saturated colors, the in shy away from them. The phones are cool that the apple continues to show around off the corners of the phones.

And then as alex saying, the big change to the hardware is the camera contribution, which is also in the sixteen. So you look at the sense the sixteen is missing anything this year. There's a little bunch of camera features is not getting as a solar processor.

what's one less camera, right? They said they could do four, but it's only got it's got two actual cameras. They got four megaplex el fusion camera and then the well magpie el alter wide.

which is not four cameras if you will be important to say that's not four cameras too. It's not four lenses. Ses, it's not four cameras of the way.

Apple, what are you this and I spent. I mean, you can't just like throw the word fusion camera at me and not expecting that. Ask everyone exactly what that is. So fusions.

what they called the sweater mode.

tell us about the test, that confusion. The fusion tech prism is on the pro. So fusion camera specifically refers to the idea that of a forty eight magpie el sensor that generally produces twenty four magpie el images, but you can run IT forty eight.

And then when you zoom IT doesn't just crop the sensor to get you a twill makes pixel zoom lands IT runs an entirely new photo pipeline. So they are treating IT like you swapped lens sensor, photo pipeline, everything. So you've got a twelve mega pixel zoom lens sitting inside the forty eight mega pixel main camera.

You have to believe all of this is true. That's how you get two lens. Is that the argue? That's why it's called fusion lens is you have forty eight. And then when you run IT as a telephoto, IT doesn't just crop the sensor. IT does all this other stuff to treat IT like it's a different sensor.

Do you believe? IT, that's like me saying there's me and then there's me with a british accent. That's a whole different guy like .

I just I argo and then the other two, just be clear, the other two is of the ultrawise. And then when you hold a close to something, IT switches to ac o. So it's a different camera.

So you get for, and I want is slightly more believable, is something more believed. One thing is a hard way. One thing is very close.

sure. But I would the way to think about IT, it's not four cameras or four lenses. It's four modes.

Yes, which is fine. I'm good with that four modes I can work with. Lots of cameras have many modes that seems fine. And I will say all the cameras have seems like I actually think the like big improvement to an ultrawise camera, uh, is a big deal. And there's been a lot of excitement about IT.

I think I mostly don't shoot with the zero point five Cameron the iphone because IT makes everything kind of fish out and we are looking. But there are awesome, like genuinely sincere ly cool things you can do with that lends that you can't do otherwise. So it's like if theyve made that actually work, actually think that's pretty exciting.

So this is like real micro about right? This isn't just a stuff, but I would hold the phone up really close. And if IT focused, then i'd get a shot in call IT maco. No.

the thirteen pro I think started doing true macro o ultrawise in the process have had IT for a while, but now the regular sixteen has IT. And really what you're seeing is the regular sixteen, unless you want all additional pictographs features, is basically the good phone, which is the first like I would have never considered by regular I phone before. I always got the prose.

I'm so going to buy pro because i'm a huge. But there is not some piece of this puzzle where i'm like, oh, that's not good for most people like this is a great phone, right? The best straight up iphone, apple made in quite some time because IT is inheriting most of the features of the pro, including the camera controller.

right? And the reason that's happening is, is a theme. We're going to come back to many times in the course of this episode. H is A I right? Like the the thesis is that these are A I phones. You can shake your head all you I ah but like what was tim cooks line? Like these are the first devices built from the ground up for .

apple intelligence ah like yeah that's a british action that that's the yeah they sort of these phones a million years ago right? Like obviously I think they did the action button. They knew that the number one thing people would use actually went and force that the camera they were right. That's the number one thing people used. And so they added this other button.

And it's funny after the event, and I scrambling the post photos and I posted a thing on threads and I still use the same ancient icon camera and lens, and I have been since like the beginning, and i'm still using IT and the photos are still great and feel so sai. And he was like, that's your old camera, because he'd seen my post on friends. And we just got to talking for a bit another major no.

Or shutting soups. I asked him this question, like, is this button here? Because this is a new input method for the phone, right? Is this a camera shutter button? Is this just for Cameron earth? Like feels a Cameron's, we talk about cameras.

time. We see each other. Or is IT you want people to have their iphone engaged? The world visually great. You want to aid, be able to see stuff.

So you need to put the spot right here so you can like open IT right away and like look at stuff with the your iphone and is basically like yet both like people use their iphones for cameras all the time. It's convenient. We are to see that happening, but at the same time, we have cameras on ipads and people is in document scanner.

And we are just aware a couple just aware of the universe of things the camera is already doing for people like scanning Q R code to get menus at restaurants. So I pushed him on IT and go. It's both like you have to see IT as both and we've seen as both a long time.

So I think you're right, David, that like there's a view towards a long term future with the iphone is just looking at stuff in being smart about IT. And then there's right now, which is people need to open the camera, take a photo more and that this button represents a little bit of a transition, but none of the features are shipping. So it's just a camera button.

So okay, this is actually, if i'm being completely honest, the single biggest question I have for you as somebody who has held one of these things is IT a button. All apple calls IT is camera control like apple studio ously avoid calling IT button and from the description in the keynote, IT sounds a little bit like it's it's kind of I think I compared IT to like the a tiny ti macbook track pad where it's like mostly doing a happy thing and IT doesn't really move, but IT feels like it's moving and you can you move your finger around. It's sensitive that way, but it's not like a click y button is IT what is this thing?

Does the button?

Is this potter .

honest to god quickie button?

OK that makes me, I was really worried.

IT also does the other thing, which is very confusing. Every time I use a IT now a dozen times, uh, my brain is still trying to figure out. So I don't saying it's I hard to figure out.

It's just one of those things there to use a little bit and like figure IT out. So when you it's capacity, the reason they are not calling to shutter button is because IT IT has like multiple functions inside of IT. So in in there all bl, by fact, that is both extremely pressure sensitive and capacity.

So you can just push IT down in the clicks and that'll take a photo every time that's going to take a photo. And the new sensors are zero lag so you can just banging away and even the regular iphone sixteen, but also on from sixteen pro, just taking pictures. Zero shadow like after.

very cool if you like.

I don't even know how to. If you think about moving your finger, it'll register like a tap. Me like you, not you because you don't want to push IT.

You want to like just like give you a little, you know yeah, I just like i'm thinking about you that and that all open up one menu. And if you do a twice, you get like the big menu, and you can like switch between modes. So like by default, like the zoom. So you can hold the down a little bit, and you get like the zoom thing, and you can excite your finger back and forth to zone. But you can also to click them again, in which the new photo styles to switch between the lenses stuff eventually lock exposure in focus.

I'm like dangerously worried the year describing like 3d touch or fours touch both ideas that apple has had that didn't go super well for apple。 The idea of like, what if we gave you infinite levels of pressure to push in, different things happen depending on what you did. And everybody is like, actually this sucks and I .

can't figure how to use IT. Well, so the reasons going to work, uh, is because apple sound, depending on the third party up developers to do IT there, then just they're just like here IT is here is how that works and you can IT IT is I have not immediately sussed out, but you can see how you will in the thing that's actually the most confusing about IT is, if you are used to a macbook track pad where the click is fake, the fact that IT is actually a physical click to take a photo is the thing your brain can get around right. Because you can press hard enough to make IT due stuff. But then you can press even harder to make IT take a photo.

This is going to be a mess for people. I'm so excited.

I I tell me, I promise you, on people that I see, it'll just feel a week of very confusing results.

Yeah I mean, that's going to be a great week.

What sounds like the hard part is gonna all this stuff in the middle. If you just button math, it'll take a picture.

which is what most people want to do. But in the capacity, stuff is is wide to because it's an iphone, right? It's I U S.

So IT has a so when you're like looking at your range of zoos, you can just like side your finger early fast and are just fly to the next to tent, yeah right? Or fly between lens is or if you have IT open to the len switch and where there's no intense, you just like go from the far this zone to the ultra. But just like sliped really fascinating, just like a role.

So IT just as a hardware, software apple thing. IT is like absolutely not just a button. Like IT is like another weird little touch surface with a lot of ideas packed into IT. Then the idea is for as much as I can tell that you should basically be able to control the entire camera from this button, there's parts of that you can do， but you should basically be able to real cameras like lots of button and absence exposure, your competition in styles and mr, and they've got a lot of those ideas inside the camera. Control butter.

What if this becomes like a generational thing? You know how like your parents are? Always turn on the light on on their phone because they kind of screw up. And we're just like like our brains just can't process that. We will hit like an age point.

We were like we just can't use the camp er control because it's so complex because that does sound like there's like a lot of like it's like really awesome and that there's a lot of opportunity with that. But also IT does sounds super complex. I think .

people transfer IT with the middle part. weird. Lightly tapping is for that might be confusing.

But like David saying, if you just push the button really hard, it'll take a picture in that. That part seems fry. I will say there we have weird hulia ts, which is in my house. They have to push really hard, and people often don't push them hard enough. And so maybe they're just like one precious.

but now maybe so what what i've found myself onery about this is I actually get all of the reasons apple would make this take right. Like IT actually makes a lot of sense. IT seems like a really usefull controller.

IT also makes sense both in in landscape and vertical motor. Ge is very clever, like to make a button that feels like it'll work. Whether i'm holding my phone like this in using my index finger or hold my phone like this using my thun strikes me as clever.

What I don't understand is why this isn't the action button, like why didn't they ship this last year and called the action button? That makes way more sense to me than calling IT camera control. There's all kinds of interesting stuff you could let developers do with this.

IT feels like vastly deeper and cooler and more interesting than like here, long press this button and one of eight things will happen. It's possible the answers is just that IT wasn't ready, so they shift IT. But like this seems to me to be what the action button always should have been.

I think I disagree that I think the action button is we may we talk about this so much last week, the action but is meant to be a configurable macro button 是 and IT just happens that most people thought the camera was the most useful mro。 But I think apple is all in on the idea that you should just have a button on your phone that opens your transit APP or launches a shortcut or IT does one of any number of appliance like things that your phone does chat out to all the people who .

told us about the transit aps. By the way, we ve got a lot of feedback from people who use IT for their train adapt.

yeah. And I think apples like super into this because what they were doing before was like weird triple clicks of the home button to accomplish these goals. Now lets have another surface to map things onto. And the fact that everyone is using IT for the camera, I think, was proof to them. That they needed a camera button too.

So you think I mean that I guess you're probably right. Like I was thinking that there's a road map for this that ends in IT being something that like every developer can do stuff within IT becomes like a system for controlling how you do lots of things. But what you're saying, and I guess what's probably be right, given the fact that is called camera control, is like this thing is about the camera.

Yes, maybe IT will be the camera in lots of apps, but like, this is a camera thing. And that is, I agree with you in that sense that this is like this. This thing has a real sort of statement of purpose. The action button, like deliberately, does not.

Do you guys think that means that eventually we don't get that port free? Totally smooth glass iphone?

Yes, I I think that that idea is officially put to bed. Yes, I don't think they have any interest in that. In fact, since those rumors have started, we've had two physical buttons added to the life. And I think apple one realizes, charging wise, these funds are more power hungry than ever, especially they started adding A I features to them. People are going to have to charge their phones more, uh, so that ports like going away.

Um in two, I think the things you want to do like very quickly on a phone are going to start to take primacy over the idea of opening the homes stride in a picking and APP and again, the AI part of IT where they they called visual intelligence where the phone can see the world that I I think the primacy of that is very, very high yeah. And so over time, this button I can optimized for some of that. But right now, the apple nose, like for a lot of people, the iphone is of a broza really a message client and reward camera. And so if they can just feel like now the camera is easier, there's actually a chance I can get you to do other stuff on the front well.

and I think that that pushes the same one behind a lot of whats in like I O S A T, right, which is more customization. They're pulling more stuff out of apps and onto the lock screen and onto the homes screen and into widget and into live activities. Like the idea that you should be able to do most things on your phone without doing very much feels totally central to like the entire design of the iphone with hardware and software. And as IT happens, I think is exactly correct. And i'm very, very happy about that.

Like, let's see how every developed feels with this, right? Like IT was not for nothing that apple very specifically called out when you do visual intelligence features and you search for a restaurant on, like you take a picture restaurant IT tells you what the restaurant is, it's ring in the menu and it's like, where's that coming from the answers? Yelp, right.

Can they swap in another provider for help? Yeah, probably in other countries where yelp isn't like the the dominant provider, that info like apple will swap IT. But then they were also very careful to say if we don't know what's going on will ask google or if we recognized that we are looking at is like a black homework page, will like ask ChatGPT to I help you. So they're trying to expand the like a universe of third party services that can talk to the question is whether any that becomes modular, how any of those services make money? No one seems yeah I mean.

that's kind of the whole apple intelligence question rate is like apple. Apple seems to be building this very simple seeming beautiful thing that IT doesn't make any sense how the rest of the ecosystem around IT works.

yeah. And to be clear, the weirdest part of these phones, they were announced as the first phones built trapped intelligence. They're going to launch with none of IT. Maybe that's only true for a couple weeks, right? They're launching september twenty.

If is is the on sale date you can provider, I think next week or the end this week, eighteen point one oc t one is post to arrive sometime in october with the first cent of apple intelligence features, right? So only a few weeks cap, but maybe at most a month gap, right? But it's a long gap to launch a phone without its highlight features.

It's a long gap. It's also it's launching on eight point one in beta, and it's only launching some of the features like some of the stuff that ship is going to be very cool, right? Like transcriptions and summary is is coming to voice memo like that, the stuff that's coming to mail where they can rewrite your email, which I brought up leven times during this. Dear god, stop giving a tools to write worse things like please.

that is up there with apple explaining what bigger screens are for, like is a line of text we .

are truly killing .

time at in these events at some point, like our apple things, everyone is stupid. IT might be, but, but there might be. The screens bigger, you can have fit more content.

And a bigger screen is like a regular explanation. And apple event right next to, hey, you wrote a bad email. Another robot will write a nice .

email so so that our robot on the other end can read IT and summarize IT for you, and then rewrite. It's just.

it's just apple male. Not only actual flow, we are hitting the boundaries of text handling in interface metaphors in I, S, A, T. With some say as stuff.

So if you want to use these features and nineteen point one, you've got like a long thing and like notes, right? You want to summarize IT and send an email, you have to select all of that, which is like grab the handle extreme down, or if someone had the select all fine. And then you have to tap IT again to get that, elect that little menu that like model public and need to come back up. And then you hit like writing tools and then IT brings up a sheet. And that to me is just bananas.

I just based on my ongoing ability to like accurately cut and paste things over time, the odds of me getting all three of those taps correct in a row is like one in four.

let's say, like a video game .

yeah really .

the principal al on your phone, you're going a great time.

Um well, you know the iphone can now play triple a console game outs oh yeah.

Assessments create sorry, sorry. 对。

Summary even like they did that, they mention us. no. But I just like if that's the thing you're selling in actually text handling in an iphone, as as I would say to messy, just it's not like they've revolutionized IT. No, it's pretty in elegant and IT has been basically in the same way IT hasn't since like they added IT to the iphone.

You're now a place really like overstraining the interface metaphors of this in a real way because yeah, we're asking people to do to use these new features is move a lot of text around or like take action on a lot of text in IT. Just doesn't the the IOS was not like built for that in a particular way now in a way that is just a computer like obviously. And now we might I hope I will IT takes the opportunity like we should rethink tex handling here or like fine cursor control.

Okay, but but there was one A I feature that actually seemed good in this, they point IT out this time, which I don't think they mention a wwdc, which is that you can just ask syria to, like, tell you how to do stuff on your phone.

I said, IT. W B C. That's very much the like future of user manuals is generated A I like we to we have to boil the ocean in order to make a useful, useful ual for iphone. I think this idea has been on from bixby, samsung bicky is this idea? Yeah you will talk to your phone and like, it'll do stuff.

but no one's done IT well. And I just keep thinking, all these people who go to tools who are using all these other ways, trying to figure out how to use their phone, and theoretically, apples going to make IT Better. But you have to know .

to ask I saw a time of this I don't know is it's like a haze of demos yeah they were showing me like um you can ask IT how to do X, Y, Z feature and totally work. They are obviously running eighteen point one beta. Not eighteen point eight will ship with, but IT worked.

And you really think about what is happening here is happy sa model is running locally in the phone and then they have their own user manuals, which they can load into the bottle. So you're ask any question. We are pretty known instead of information from their own knowledge bases and what not in that that's a pretty straightfor new case that I think I don't know how much people will use IT, but from what i've seen, that works pretty yeah.

No, I think it's like I could be really useful if they actually promoted IT because I think of all the .

old people in my life who don't .

know how to use their phones, you I don't ask me U I now what that you .

can ask theory in a way that is not prescribed and doesn't have to be a very specific kind of way. And like, again, so much of what apple is asking us to assume is that after what thirteen years, apple has made theory good. And I just am so not ready to assume that yet. But back to what you are saying, the life. But when all the surface ruling out the service is rolling out in beta in pieces in october and the the biggest thing of IT.

which is really clear because even that is confusing. So it's in beta right now. Yes.

you can. Right now.

the IOS eighteen.

that one public beta is available. You can push the band you can down that can run if you have fifteen pro, you can run apple on intelligence, some stuff for right now, it's going to launch in the public release of IOS eighteen point one, sometimes in a tober, but there are still calling IT a beta in republic release, which is the features will be labeled beta in the release. And full of times they did IT with the portrait .

mode free form, the APP lunch like that.

I think yeah a couple of things like uh like face time audio transcriptions or something launched this way. There is a handful of this stuff. Deep fusion technically wasn't beta bit nobody he could see IT and no one can still see IT.

So it's it's fine. So apple has a history of doing this right, particularly with the camera. But now what we're going to do is going to say huge chunks of the Operating system or in beta, and they're just can have the label in the release.

So it's not in beta. If to go get IT, it's in the public release. They will be labeled with the beta.

which is a little which .

is kind of like just saying here, IT is IT might suck, which is to be there what all of the AI systems do right now. Every they all have the labeled the bottom. That's like this thing might like you we don't know. Yeah not our problem.

It's also kind of what they did at the event when they announce all of this, they were like and now we're doing apple intelligence also. This is just a recap of wwdc.

Yeah in all of the features are touch that you will be able to without any hard dates. And so I again, I I don't care how many iphones, apple cells h, to quote our friend and mentor while moscot, I don't give a fuck about your stock, Grace. I just don't but know one of the questions is this worth upgrading? The answer is not in the hardware.

The answer is in the software, right? If you a regular iphone or any pro phone, save the fifteen pro to get apple intelligence features, you need a new phone. okay? That's a good question. Like what is the new are the features worth and upgrade in the answer right now? No, because they're vapor.

And I will just referred you back to one of the virtuous long standing rules right up there with world of no seventh and review is in the box is its vapor until IT ships. Yep, and he hasn't shift. Apple is a great track record shipping. I am not I don't mean to say this is a prejan ative way, but it's paper until the ships. So you just like cannot evaluate this thing because it's not real in any way, shape or for rate.

And especially with A I, it's not just shipping like shipping. Shipping is the very beginning of the battle of making something that's .

actually A I and part of IT a shipping I and eighteen. You can summarize notification like no one's business. Have you ever looked at a small piece of information and thought yourself, I wish this piece of information is smaller apples, got you. Like then you can do that right now. It's all of the rest of IT that isn't out yet that has yet to ship.

It's all of this private cloud compute stuff, which is up and running and supporting the beta, but actually hasn't scaled and has not actually yet been ordered by third parties to prove that its complaint with apple's privacies, like apple d's privacy promises all of that. We don't know yet. We just don't know yet.

So it's it's just hard to evaluate this phone like from the dome's perspective actually upgrade phone. I don't know what is use your phone broken. This phone will be much nicer than the phone you have. Will this phone bring you much a cool new way? I futures like maybe, but I don't .

know that we can all be sick.

Well, yeah, it's very .

hard to .

evaluate .

a camera at apple park.

Well, okay, this is actually a good segway back into the the pros, which we should talk about because, uh, obviously there was a tono focus on the cameras. I mean, right, if if you're buying this thing on day one, the two things you're buying IT for hardware wise are the camera upgrade des and the camera control like that. That's that's the thing, right? Unless you like deeply want a phone that is called desert titanium. And if you do, please email me and tell me why I would love to hear from me because it's called desert.

That sounds a cool. It's over.

The next one of my favorite that happened today was that as soon as they said desert titanium, every single person on our staff with life blog .

access made a different joke in the life log lib. Desert titanium sounds like if one of the max in pacifica was a tripper.

And now coming .

to the city and say.

desert today .

I get with me. I have a desire idea here, but I know how we can stop by to attacks .

in a sexy .

but yeah, that's right.

That's it's IT. Yeah, we're leaving the line on sunday. This is the end possibly of the verge. Who knows? We're so sorry, but IT was always going to end like this.

This is what I was. I'm just going to point this out. As far as I know, yagers are not gendered and this is an equal opportunity like full spectrum stripper robot situation .

calling in their metal plates into the ocean just .

about about just trying to be inclusive.

Yeah just thrown metal around twenty twenty four anyway, desert titania. The the pro and the pro max， it's just the camera this year, right? Like Better, Better processor, different colors, battery life, which i'm going to get very angry about here in a minute. But like the thing if if you're thinking regular iphone versus pro iphone, you're basically making this decision based on the camera .

and bigger display, okay?

And bigger display fair, granted, which I will say anette ally IT seems like has turned more people often on just from what i've heard.

seven inch phone. I mean, that's not math. Hold on. Almost seven inches of phone.

yes. So I held, if you hold IT without holding the fitting promex, Andrea s. Management, and you hold them next to each other, and I will. This phone is big, and this phone .

is a surfboard a well and you're a max guy you .

for you to that small ah it's I love IT i'm super. I going to buy IT you see some people buy the process for camera, but then people are also going up to the pro max size because IT had the Better zoom length, right? And now it's the same zoom length month.

So you're not being forced into that biggest phone. You can sort of stop IT gigantic and still get kind of the best camera system. And I think the forty make a pixel ultra here is a big deal. It's still the ultra de IT doesn't captures much light and it's impossible that like really evaluate. I found camera is an apple park because IT .

it's such a beautiful .

ly blid space will have a light from heaven and so it's impossible to IT anyway. But I took a bunch of photos and obviously the in camera as a way Better. Obviously in camera has more modes, all the other stuff.

And then but the having a forty eight makes pic, i'll tried, means you do get some more detail. You get, you know, it's just a Better camera than the old, and I actually use the ultra lot. H some prety .

excited about IT.

What do you use the ultra right for? I've just often in a space where it's like, I want to take a picture of max, and I want to capture the environment that I mean with max, you like here's the whole playground and like that's a useful just the usual tool.

That's exactly my experience, which is why I asked IT is constantly like I can either get like the the shoulders up shot or I can use the ultra wide. So that for me is it's exactly the same.

But I think for the the pro, like the reason I I brought this up when we started thinking about the camera thing is the a big part of the keino was about all of these new camera modes and all the different ways as you can shoot in the fact that natural is just like a mode. Now is is deeply fascinating to me that they're like you can shoot a thousand ways. One of them is regular and and here's a bunch of other one. And I just feel like, like, obviously, nei, you're in the room so you saw this up on the screen, which is always hit and miss everything always look great on the screen has been my experience but also like took some pictures and saw them on the screen like what what do you make of apples? Sort of million new ideas about photo processing here.

Well, let me tell you two things with the screen, something us will also told me. So again, they built the sea of sea, the designed to ages go. And he point out me, they built IT for projectors, like the room is designed for big projectors.

And then they wanted to do a big elite screens that everyone does. Now they had to basically engineer their own screen for the theater. And IT goes past the wings of the stage state to to get the size and shaped.

That's very apple.

An apple designed an engineer their own screen, which celebrate just something. Celebrate you going to see the audio in that room I keep talking about like the room and like was cherian there. There's a little boy today. My kind of chance things were different today to see jobs. And so it's hard to know like all the modes yeah every time I see apples camera team, they basically like here we go again, words there into IT.

All these .

company is like run by extremely type eight individuals. You want to fight, they will just prefer to win. Uh, so I was have these great conversations is always super interesting in their point of view now uh, which again with to review the phones to see how to buses IT appears to be that they have realized that people are going to filter in the photos anyway, right? So they're like, look, people have erratically different interpretation of what their own skin tone is, and we just have to get out of their way like that suffer us to decide anymore.

So here's all these options and here's all these slighter and photo styles have existed in the iphone for ages. In fact, they started as a response to the pixel. As you remember, background computational photography started in the pixel team.

And mark boy were talking like you, like old painters. They liked shadows and details. The iphone was like, too bright and too even.

And we like, we like the pixel contrast. So they added photo styles, and of them was shut up about the pixel. But I was destructive so he could shoot that mode.

And that was IT. And the reason are making a big deal about IT, again, is theyve reengineering photo pipeline. So you can change IT well after the shot, right? So that means you can capture the stuff you can deal. Don't call filters are very careful sAiling.

This kind of photo of processing dates back to the eight hundred and hundreds of the um but the idea is you will be able to get uh much more D S L R type photo with like heavy shadows and heavy detail or a much more modern smart phone ula tone mapped photo or all shadows have vanish from face of the earth, never be working again. And now those are controls. Are anyone going to use these controls? I don't know.

To the power of default really matter. And this natural on an iphone still have to stand for something IT does. Can you evaluate IT inside of the Angela light of the sea hubs? You cannot so as to get IT, but I think they're starting to see that other that their users are constantly changing these photos anyway. And so their own point of view has to kind of be a good starting plate for all the changes to cup.

Do you guys use those modes now? Because I just realized i've had a certain rich contrast for probably as long as i've had this phone.

That's that's pixel mode.

That's pixel a. That's interesting.

Yes, i've been in pixel mode for years.

I think that's really telling, right? Like the power of defauts is a really real thing here. And I think what I wonder about the pro is whether IT is more prone to get people who are more likely to be interested in fusing with those things, obviously at the very top end, like the kind of people who are shooting the four k one twenty five and holding him up in a gingle.

And like the people people likes to show in these keynotes and in their ads, those are the people who are can use these filters. And I think we will be secure about IT, right? Like to have more options to do this stuff. Quote and quote in camera is great, all for IT. But I think the the like interface question of how you surface this stuff for regular people is really fascinating and really hard. And I think it's kind of how I fill up the camera control thing, right? I think most people will figure out that if I smashed this button, IT will take a picture and everything more nuances than that, you start to lose some giant percentage of the number of people who are going to use.

If that's why, keep thinking about this apple intelligence like I mean, obviously, it's very easy to turn IT into the personal assistant for your phone and settings, but that feels like A A win at this point. If IT really work, that's like the thing you want to advertise constantly. Tell everybody, look at all these scholl setons. It's too hard to remember series.

Do you say like, make this photo look like the one thousand eighties and if everyone was doing drugs, like.

that's exactly what you say, I say, like, I want that creep by two thousand digital camera.

I do you want to say that before you take the photo or after you .

take what you can do both? Now as I understand, the pro let you change the style after they said there was a big part of the the they .

will but there there's just parts of taking a photo like, yeah, how long is the exposure? Like do you want to fire the flash if you want that in these days? Like that, you might want to fire the flash.

Like, there's a lot of steps in between. Make IT look like this. yeah. And just tell the robot to make IT look like this.

I want a robot to do all of that.

Just about two.

Yeah well, they can to be clear.

once again, not in that shipping IT. And what Alice is describing in particular is just like us a dreaming, yes, that you'll be able just like talking to the phone that will.

It's also apple dreaming that is like we're not making that up. That's apple's idea .

in apple on the third party apps. And serious, they can do this stuff are just no work like like that is all pure paper. That's even it's gonna ship in the next version of meeting one.

That's maybe a year away. And what we have now right now in the camera, partially pro camera, is infinite customized ability. So if you know what you want, the camera can now get way closer to delivering IT. And that is different than are the photos, by default, more realistic or lesser? The process, we just don't know. But the idea that the camera is now infinitely more flexible in the pro model is I think it's born up by just the number of controls you have and in fact, that most of the pipelines aren't destructive anymore .

yeah which I think is record alright, we need to take a break. We ve been talking about camera button for a way too long. Uh, any parting thoughts on on the iphone and you've you've held all the things, anything that jumped out to you before we stop talking? refund.

The promex is really big in all of the phones are really nice in a way that I don't think has been the I think .

like I one five nice. Like peak iphone nice no.

Uh, but they are. They are the most refined diversions of this design i've seen in quite a while. And I I honestly think of sixteen. And once they get some of features, the move like people will buy him.

That's very exact. We have to say that we will be back. Support for the show comes from the crucible moments, the capital we've all had turning points in our lives where the decisions we make end up having lasting consequences.

No one knows this Better than the founders of some of today's most influential companies. In incredible moments, let's listen ers in on the maker break events that defined major companies like dropbox, youtube, rob hood and more told by the founders itself. Tune in to a season two of crucial moments.

Today you can listen at crucial moments. Stop com, or we're every you in posts. All right, we're back.

We've had the outbreak to think any any more phone thoughts. Everybody feel good. I didn't know about the battery life, but I am gonna not yet about battery.

Have time yeah I think to talk about the processor of the battery. So I can saying just federal, if ever.

without a number yeah just and they did.

The one that really killed me was there was a moment during the keynote where there was a slide in which they showed the battery meter with the Green and then just extended IT. So there was more Green. That doesn't mean anything.

What what am I supposed to do with that? Oh, good. You made the icon longer. Congratulations that accomplish. I'm so angry at how many times they had Better life without giving any actual information battle life.

So I think we the sixteen permai first of the best battery ever on iphone. I also say my fifteen permai has garbage battery life. IT is actually hibor. It's just bad. My fifteen .

has deteriorated ter than any iphone i've ever used.

I even look to the deterioration just like out to the middle of the day to charge my phone. But I the stats, as far as I can tell, what they are talking about is hours of video playback is a proxy for everything else. They just don't want to be like three, three hours of video playback on a slide.

We've spent a good time last week talking about how stupid metric that is.

So whatever we can move on.

we will talk about IT next few dozens of hours of consecutive offline video phone. Do you guys .

hyper optimized video play back? And amazing so you wants .

to see something of the processor.

the processor seeking ultra optimize deos by a lot of our commentors have noticed the processor upgrades on the phone made for A I don't a melt too much like you actually still get it's thirty five flops, right is the thing and that's what you get with .

the ads put on a phone. All sure, but that's the same .

as like last year. yeah. So I think they are made for ec claims are kind of like rutting right up against the reality of and development times. And I I think most of they've done this is just put a bunch of ran and all these .

funds yeah eight gigs now.

which is which is great like terrific. More is a good thing.

They're not each four hundred dollars more because apple put more reminder .

is really impressive seriously yeah but no, I to some extent the processor thing I think is is whatever right like I think you're right that if you were going to make like N A iphone that wanted to do all this vastly complicated stuff offline and locally and be awesome, fine. But like what you have in the eight eighteen is going to do the job of rating business emails for you perfectly fine, like we the ceiling of interesting A I features right now is still so much lower on a device like this than the performance ceiling of the device that i'm just not bothered by this.

Just you wait, David, it's gonna ite the most beautiful email.

I hope i'm wrong. Like some day in twenty thirty six when apple intelligence actually ships, maybe IT will be amazing. Everything changes really fast.

Who knows? It's gonna an email that makes you whip you going to be like, how could IT no human could write this? It's too pretty.

The thing is, i'll never see IT. My apple mail will just summarize IT for me, never even see IT.

it's no problems. And that summary will also be beautiful.

But we should talk about, we talk about these. I was there was three airports. I think he was four airports. You you run the sound for us.

So yes, technically and is well, three three and a half, yeah, we will go three and a half. We will go three and a half. So they're the airports s four, and you there are two flat, you will get there. We're do an apple that they can have four link.

You might be six or seven.

You're just going heads too.

okay. So there .

are the airports s four, and there are delays, correct? Two versions of them. There is one that's like one hundred and twenty nine dollars and it's got to the new shape in and all of that stuff.

And then there's one that's one hundred and thirty nine dollars and that also got active noise canceling in IT. And in both cases, there be headshake to respond to series. I believe the personalize facial audio is that in both, i'm pretty sure the h two chip is gonna in both U S, B, C.

Charging case, thirty hours of battery life. The battery case is gonna a little speaker in IT. So will beat beef when you lose IT, which has been hugely helpful with my prose.

They rule like these are just these are really good airports. And then just because I have to prove that there's four updates, there's the airports, max with you're still just five hundred and forty nine dollars that didn't change. But now we get some more colors and you can charge you with U.

S, B, C. You don't have to care about your lightning cables. So technically.

new airport d max. And just right there, you talked about IT .

longer than apple .

and think like somebody that apple was being held hostage until the air is so bizarre. Colors, U. S, B, C.

moving on. O is five hundred. Ah, I know the air products facts are absolutely not a new product changed the connector.

They should have add a year to half know, if not more. And he made two colors. It's the same.

We're going to get into the apple watch. Same with the apple watch out or two. Like here's a video about how it's black now.

It's here is I I almost wrote in the live blog when there's a long sweeping shot of the watch band, you know, is.

The fourth one is the area pod's pro two, which will not change in any reasonable way, but they are to you because you're getting hearing aid features.

Yeah that's .

good feature. That is a whole lot to basically do.

That is the single most important as in the entire event, but that is to airpower ts I that I two airports in some software features of monumental importance.

Can I just think that something right now on this show, I didn't realize until right now that IT was just a software update. I thought that there had to be something new in the hardware. If you're going to tell me about how this is hearing IT, you tell me this .

is just the is.

So if I have existing air pods pro, get these two.

Yeah, you need the airports air pods pro, two airport's two pro.

two pro internees general.

You need the two p， you need the second generation airports pro and then you need a phone that can run I O S C T. So there's some cut off on what fun you have. But if you have those two things you can take the hearing test, which will, you know, apple has to finish its F, D, A clearance for, they say they going to do IT and then they can act. Hearing adds for the same battery in life. Is is they get now about six out?

I mean, you did that the f, like, be remiss if I didn't point out F, D, A clearances. In fact, a thing they have to stat.

they have to still get IT. They haven't got to get they say you're going to get IT around around the world as well. They're also very careful with the language. They are not hearing aides. They have a certified hearing aid functionality.

which there's a lot of hearing aides now that were kind of like airports. Ts, so this feels like a huge deal. O, K, I I, I think i've .

told the story in the vercheres before when I was told to get the only thing that our government of old people accomplished in the trumpet administration is they all got together and passed bypass san legislation that trump signed to make hearing its legal over the counter because they were all a million years old. Shock shower and losy in micmac. And Donald trump, yeah, yeah. We should make hearing ages easier to get because we're all .

a billion years old.

And here is A A triumph of bypass san ship. They pass a lot, making hearing adds very well over the counter. In this way, SONY ham, both ham, a bunch of other companies spring up, both entered the space and they left the space that came back with the partner.

Is are complicated. Sort of asked about this with apple. Apple's attitude is is like some are complicated for us because for apple. And then also fascinating ly, uh, their belief is that because they are apods, they'll be more socially acceptable than hearing is .

I believe that one hundred percent I think that is by far the most exciting thing about this is like we are debating this in the in the mushroms today, but like we have long since to reach the point where just having one area pot in all the time is completely socially Normal and acceptable, like you could feel about IT however you want. But like that, it's just a fact that in the world, one of my favorite to see couples walking on the street, holding hands, talking to each other, each with, like the a opposite airport, don, like it's just life now people do IT. And I the fact .

that this is couple you do .

in your seen, I would never .

I see people do all the time. You need to go outside more often, cry, I don't know, people do in new jersey.

I like they don't jy ah but no but I think the idea .

there are a lots of interesting questions about like I just want to point out .

the day with love in washington, c home of an infinitely variety of government lawyers and contractors and that sort of makes sense that they've all replaced blackberry hand with airport ear.

Yea, hundred percent. A hundred percent. D C. Was definitely like the last vestige of the huge bluetooth heads that and they just like they would .

straight into wearing airports on hand, like that one air button, is like what David is describe.

It's just as recline, talking to every single persons and watching ton, D, C, O, same time.

Just wrong.

No, it's you, me, and as wrong on the date together at all times. Great um but but no, I think the fact that no one would look at you twice for wearing an airports in a coffee shop is like a huge part of the reason this is incredibly compelling.

I think it's so cool, but does this be that now people are I mean, people are just going to talk to you when you have your airports that like before I was like a universal sign of don't talk to me and now be like i'll talk to you that might be a hearing IT.

If you zoom out. Apple pitched a pretty weird division of reality today where you are always wearing airports. This is, I don't think.

vision. I think that is reality.

But like you're wearing the made at a concert ear wearing than some event hearing loss, you're in adapt tive mode all the time are like your just hearing is being modulated through airports like they're just prostatic s fine. And then I got to get two in the weeds awareness. Apple also makes the vision pro, which wants to mediate your site.

And after a while, you're just like to cook is building a helmet, and you're going to go now that and apples going to manage the world for you. And I clean IT up for you. And that is a weird vision of the future. But the amount of let let us put a computer in between you and reality is very high in apple world right now. That said, no, we can feel about wearing .

a this is a whole episode of black mirror. Tim cook .

builds a helmet. It's a great episode of black. All .

that is .

to say, maybe it's such a hit regularly, people in different ways, the actual hearing at functionality. If they can get more people to take real hearing tests and then wear hearing aides, they will do a great service. The world like this is very exciting. All of those competitive hearing es are cycling from sonny, both on the other company. A thousand dollars.

Yeah, this could change my things.

And they have like bad apps and weird features and all the other stuff. This is what I pod proser two fifty, right? Two hundred and fifty box in the hearing tests built in the us and is perfectly tuned.

And you might might not have the weird social sensibility problems. That's a very meaningful IT, again, I think, is probably the biggest. And ask when I made today in .

the scale of things, yeah, I agree. And the fact that you take that hearing test, and not only does IT tu in the hearing itself, but IT tunes everything else in the airpower s to you, I think, is very cool, like apple has clearly to go on all the way down this road.

Watching them talk about that made me think about the stuff that they did for the vision pro, which is like you have to do an incredible amount of work because of the affordances of, like, the human body. So they had delighted, invent this new, gain your face to do IT in, created this whole crazy pipeline just to get the thing to work on your face. For some reason, this feels like it's in service, like a much cooler, more real thing for people, which I agree.

I think because they ve done this before to bit or it's just to moderate the hearing and they've done that before, like that's an accessibility feature. Now I think we put IT in. It'll do a .

hearing test, have had the voice captions, i've had transparency mode the'd had live less in. We've done a lot of stuff that walks read of this line. Yeah, this is just over the line like the fda is going to tell people these are hearing eight features and meaning in that I think is at two hundred fifty box is just vastly more accessible for so many people. Well.

i'm just curious the quality of IT because some of those changes they've done before, I have best with those accessibility features. They're not that great like the one works proposed to do kind of a little hearing testing ge and be like we're going to make the sound even Better for your ears. I guess my ears are garbage.

You don't love your personalized special.

your ears are good. That's the .

there we go.

right? So if here, if you don't have some big, as you get older, right, you lose your high frequencies. Like if you watched is like tiktok O S like .

there's a whole thing right now about people and this this wine that people here apparently .

interesting because I .

ve been been a wine.

yeah. Oh, oh my god. And I just so old I didn't hear this wine on the remarkable.

right? So you're losing, you might be losing the very, very top end. But as you get older, you lose even more or you have different count ts or what all the stuff happens.

So if you have reason, a good ears, that it's tune IT to make IT work for you is going to accomplish nothing because there is nothing to tune if you have frequency drop out to other inds of hearing issues, the tuning will actually overcome IT. And IT will sound clear in rich again. So will any of this work? I have no idea. Yeah, on airports, this is what audiologists .

and real hearing Better, Better.

But you should be proud of. Woman, you can hear remarkable.

You're not know that I know I can hear the remarkable, but the the accessibility feature on airports sucks.

Most of those things are just scam preparation by Young people to make old people feel old. Uh, they're not playing a sound when they are like only the .

Young people can hear this. This is going on. That's that's where there.

Uh, but but I think the thing you just mentioned, you I I think is actually like the question of all of the airpower ds kind of all the way down the line, not including the max, which are technically a new product, but you know whatever uh, that can apple back these really advanced features into the existing product, I think is the question right? And even if you go down to the the regulate airports is a fifty dollar or upgrade to get noise cancellation.

And if apple has figured out how to do, like genuinely good A N C inside of an open ear set of headphones, that's a big deal. Fifty dollars is a lot of money to spend for that particular upgrade, especially if you're lake, if you're not so Price sensitive that you only want the cheapest one, but you're too Price sensitive to buy the prows. Like there's a very odd sort of middle ground there that I think apples trying to strike.

And and the question of can we bring these advanced features down into a different forever factor that is not optimized and design for those features kind of is the question. And I have no idea. Have you tried these .

things at all yet? I have not yet. okay. I don't know if I believe IT like we have to see IT. Yeah, like noise cancelling is pretty done.

Technology is very clever and you need a lot of process how to do IT. But the idea is prety done, right? You listen to some things that you identify as noise, and then you just play back their inverse to cancel .

the obvious of that.

It's it's a very dub idea in the hard parts like identifying what is noise faking three to yoke as I clip a bunch of useful frequency, all the other stuff doing an OpenAIr. You're just not in control of the sound environmental. Like sound is literally getting around the headers. So are they just going to run a bunch like White noise cancellation super like, well, other people be able to hear .

the cancellation .

is impious. They have to fit right, like like the the whole thing that they don't have a seal, they just sort to sit in your ear. I I never liked him because they were that leaky, because I could hear everything around me and i'm going to be able to hear everything around me. But then sometimes it's gonna blocking some stuff that feels like a good recipe for like your brain just get missed up, turn, listen to your headphones .

but it's apple.

I wouldn't expect they wouldn't break brains with the product.

Yeah I mean, they are they're a they're confident is .

what it's yeah yeah. And I think IT is the sort of thing that a it's an odd view of the product that if you go to apple's website right now, you go to buy airports, the options are airports and airports s with adapted noise cancellation. And I think if you have a product that is technically titled airports with adaptive noise cancellation, you should maybe rethink your product excuse. But like if if they've done that, I think suddenly like this becomes at one hundred and seventy and nine dollars like maybe the pair of headphones that just about everybody should buy.

But I don't think that's going to be the case because of the fit like like the fit on the airport ads is so specific and IT works for a lot of people. And if IT doesn't work for you, it's sucks.

That's true of the prose too, though.

Can I say two things about this one apple said, without any sourcing, that airports who are the most popular happen in the world. But I can believe I would just sure, sure, it's like the verge is the most popular website in the world. But sure, you clean. IT. We are.

by the way.

it's true. And in second, they introduced the new airpower s for with the sort of like you know, short description of everyones ears are different, measured all the ears. And they got to the right the first time. They do not even the first time they said that when they announced the wired airports with not I think not even the first iphone, like with an ipod is when your pounds came out, right?

Yeah, you would ask like like i've asked them before. heh. We're are gonna get different sizes because these are too big for some years and they be like, you know, we did a test in IT works for ninety point nine percent or whatever. You're fine.

But the thing is like that that's true. IT turns out that everyone started wearing airports and buying iphone because they worked for most people.

Oh no, I can't use the the original airports. I couldn't .

fit in them at all.

This Alice we've established, i've got tiny ear, can OK I? This is a very specific.

proves me your good from .

the process also feel awful on me.

Yeah so apple and of .

the year podds in twenty twelve, IT was a trani eye video. IT was along that the iphone five and the ipod IT was like, ipod is how old they were. And at the time they were like, we ask more than six hundred people to test over hundred iterations of the airports they we made up on on tread mills and extreme heat and cold.

They did cardio. They shook their heads up and down and airport d joy and the design that fit the most years. And now we're like, twelve years later, and like we did IT again, we've once again measured all of the years in the world and they look a little bit different.

Maybe it's sure evolution, baby.

sure it's true. They sucked with this design for a long time and maybe years have changed. But I think the reason airport's pro um are the most more popular ones, even even more expensive, maybe just the word pro in the name, maybe it's sometimes cancelling, actually simply staying people's ears Better.

Yeah, I would agree.

I do I I do agree with that. And I think especially early on, the regular airpower s developed a reputation for falling out of your head, right? Like there.

For years there were all those stories of people like losing the airport t on the street, that would fall down in the, whether IT was true for you or not, that fear was real. And even, even for somebody like me, they fit well in my ears. They don't fall out. I am perpetual terrified.

They're going fall out because they feel loose, which is actually like, you see people like, that's why i'd like them, because they don't feel like they're smoothed into my head but IT makes me feel like they're gna fall out all the time and the prose, for Better and worse, smooth into your head yeah and don't feel that way. And I think I think that is real for people. I agree.

You see people like covering their ears sometimes if they are walking over great or options on the train. And because I think like the the O G airports feel kind of like earrings, but then like lip on earrings. This is something you neither run to.

You probably have a lot of familiar with. But now there's earrings, they going to here and they they hang out. It's true, little piercing their day and great. But people, you know, they like when you have those lips on your constantly, like holding your hands up because you're gona fall off and airport, O, D S, feel the same way. And nobody wants.

nobody wants clip ones. I just like how much youtube are looking at people in their airports. Like is ecologist, like like there's another couple wearing one airports each.

and just like another persons.

hear me, nothing over a great. And it's nice because this is also why I read everyone's screens when they're taxing on the train. It's journalism.

I love IT when you find somebody like type of spaces stuff. Oh my god.

really I I one time this is a true story, missed my train and wrote IT for one extra hour because there was a guy I was standing and he was sitting in like the first seat next to me, and he was in the middle of breaking up with his glory end over text messages and try for one more hour than I needed to. Just I i've got through the whole break up that was spectacular IT involved seven thousand words of text messages. If you made me guess IT was IT was incredible, like one serious ly all face time right now. We can do this together.

fine.

Next to yeah .

here in the market. Uh, the guy next to in the plane here, I sort a guy was trying to, rod August, he failed. Six hundred flight from your have failed, failed, just like failed.

Then he picked up his phones, started typing in, uh, all lower case in no sap for a while. I didn't read IT. I didn't see him text the words I need to write my own narrative to a friend also.

And then weird this of all, on his phone, on delta wifi, which is garbage, started powering through gmail on the red in safe. I, with the Better at the top of the screen and said, gmac Better than the APP and I have only you like bro. IT is Better in the APP.

I love him. I honestly .

believe in moments I got is IT is IT should be allowed to just reach over on tap the open button that opens in .

a really feel like how are you using safe I with the the the the address bar in the bottom and you've got, I heard me he need .

that .

that six point seven eight iphone or six point nine .

iphone one more line .

text yeah speak of one another sector s .

ark with the watches. Yeah.

they're big. They are big moment .

in this kina where apple look a minute to explain what you can with the bigger I would like if anyone's out there, if you can make me a super cut of apple executives patiently explaining that you can see more content on a bigger screen over the past five years, I think you would be .

amazing IT would also be hours long. So okay, the the basic rundown on the watches, as I understand IT, is, uh, apple watch series ten new design that looks and off for lot like the old design. It's thinner.

IT has a bigger screen. A comes in black, I would say those of the silent points and also comes in other colors. Nobody seems to care about those colors that comes in black every, okay, how shiny are we talking? Well, okay, hold, we'll get.

I want to talk. I want to hear what you think me like. But then there's also the watch two, which is nothing at all has changed except now IT also comes in black, which again, the what did I say .

you watch to the watch two is dramatic changes in the step.

Watch, watch. If you watch two, you're in for a trip.

The upper watch alter to is unchanged. They did. They basically reintroduced the product.

They like the ultra too, is great for stremme ing and rowing and diving. And also just look at chunky and my here of money also. It's back now.

I was in that, yes, but the series ten is a new design. IT looks for all the world like design. It's a thinner. It's more rounded on the top and comes in polished aluminum. Black also .

charges faster, which I think is very exciting. But the design is done and cares back because I my immediate reaction when they said thinner was I don't care, right? Like I looked at the watch that was on my rest and was like I I don't know that i've ever wished for this thing to be singer is how I feel about my iphone really something they may get nor is nothing for me.

Um but then there were a bunch people I saw on on threads and elsewhere who were like, oh you know just based on like the the clothes I wear or like how I use my rest having something that there is actually really. So what i'm curious about me, I especially somebody who wears the chunky one every day, did you feel different? Like if you had just picked IT up, would you have been able to tell because it's been years really since you've been able to tell kind of which one you were picking .

up if you were paying attention? Yeah OK. For a Normal person, you'd be like the screen bigger, and that would be the thing OK.

right? You know how you can tell between the two and a four, because the screen copier was the four. Five of the screen topic, I think was the four, right? So screen up bigger you can tell.

And then the ford of everything else, you can tell it's that again. So it's like a very minor adjustment, but it's bigger, thinner I think is hard. But you know IT for all intense of purposes, the same design like we can lie ourselves and say it's not the same design as the same.

Is the ten screen now bigger than the ultra screen?

Yes, that's the thing they said wild.

Just both screens are the forty because it's the forty nine.

No, the case is the same size. But I guess because they made the screen bigger, in the .

case bigger, there's a forty two and forty six are the case sizes and the screen on both of them and is bigger than the ultra.

No, IT has to just be the forty. Yes, okay, yes. I mean.

looks very nice, look very cool. Know the highlight features actually sleep opinion detection, not the size. We have to see how well sleep opinion and detection were. Fda clear situation for apple did either.

If you have a moment during the keino, we were like a god, a iba to find that I have sleep at me ah like I don't know. This is a thing I want to know about myself.

I'm ready, ready. I'll learn. I'm open to new experiences.

I don't cry to watch when I sleep. You don't .

see to watch I.

no, thank you. I would say truly, sincerely.

Ly, my single favorite thing about the apple watch is how good and alarm clock is for my body. Like IT wakes me up Better and easier and more pleasantly than any alarm clock i've ever tried. And that is like two thirds a reason where, but when do you charge IT?

Uh, I so I actually this is the reason faster charging is very exciting to me. I charge IT. Typically I will take that off and I go to shower in the morning and I will just leave IT on the shorter er till it's full.

And sometimes that means I leave IT there for five days because I just forget about IT. But so the idea of actually being a little like put IT down, go shower, come back and IT has charged. But I think IT was eighty percent in thirty minutes.

IT was supposed to be if if IT gets to that, suddenly in my own experience, upper watch battery life sort of ceases to be a thing. And I find that very exciting. yeah.

And it's the battery life scotland really good over the last few years. Anyway.

the auction is pretty good and the ultra the little is still rated like double with the series ten is I worry a little about the series ten. Bigger screen, brighter screen, thinner, thinner does not typically boat well for good battery.

yeah. So what can I just say? One thing, random common screens.

The screens on the iphone sixteen and sixteen pro can now go down to one nit of brightness and is actually wild to look at. You turn the break this all way down. It's like there's like a ghost and image. It's pretty cool.

That's actually awesome. Like is somebody who uses my phone in bed more than i'm proud of being able to get IT like properly?

Dim, have you got to one night then?

Yeah like we are talking last week about like eating devices and like, what if you could make your screen not look so blue and bright? Like, what brainless i'll do IT don't get you there. Yeah, no, very .

impressed. Two thousand. Its in sunlight, which is ridiculous. But yeah.

I really students flashed on a bed.

Who was that? Was a gregor somebody else who was like, sometimes people look at their watches at an angle and was like, thanks stude. People look at their washing.

The viewing angle of the wash, the serious ten OLED is big. I like again, if you out the number of times where they explain things like basic facts about screens, as no one has seen a screen before, is holi ous. Yes.

but White angle legs, yeah, just like a whole friend.

Also, I say this in all complimented as though apple doesn't already make the best screens consistently. They're like this piece of garbage series and not in display. You could even even look at him from the angle tear. fine. No one is worried about that before.

no. Yeah, not a real thing. Uh, way I wanted know about the blacks. Talk about the blacks. You you looked at both watches sincerely IT IT. Seems like if apple had just gotten on stage and said we've changed nothing except both watches now come in black, everybody would have been sacked and gone home happy. You've seen them both.

How do they look in black? To be clear, they said we've changed nothing on one watch.

which now comes fair. I to buy that watch, there's a new watch face that does sort of a sword thing that you can't really tell what time that is. I open an .

apple person wearing the black alter too, and I, but I don't know what that person was saying.

I just, just stay that watch.

I was like.

what if I just that life belongs to you?

What if I was on my rest and not yours? Uh, so that's great. I want to buy that one.

The the shiny aluminum IT is shiny y aluminum black. Like it's it's fine. Like I I don't know what to say about IT. It's a black metallic.

The shiny worries me because of scratches. Should I be worried about scratches?

You know, that thing was so covered in fingerprints when I looked at, I couldn't tell if he was scratch or not.

Also not great.

Yeah just not really my pictures of the phone also fingerprint city. But every in cases ah it's .

been true for years. Every apple product .

have to cause the watch.

You don't put case where the back of the apple of alta two has special black set fire glass. I am going to buy this product so fast for no reason. It's so stupid .

i've been trying to set. So I have a series a that is fine. IT is like IT is a perfectly services able apple watch.

And I found myself looking at the ten being like, what's great looking and I like the black a lot. But is there anything here that I like? I need this upgrade. Yes, for some reason I landed on bigger screen seems good. And the faster charging would be really helps .

that the only two things I jump, I mean, this sleep baby will be nice again.

Do I .

want to ready for .

information .

every night?

He just said to sleep happy will be nice.

Yeah, that will be sleep happy and you get IT actually you can not watch. And then you get sleep.

David is is married and being married means you have a built and sleep .

SHE doesn't like how I breathe when i'm awake. So I think sleep would not be a problem if you if you are married .

and you can't reliably tell when you are sleep up like you just need to show them the list of sleep happy symptoms and will be.

Yeah, that seems right, right? We need to take one more break and then we're going to do a lightning round of other apple stuff, and then we're going to get out here.

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Alright, we're back. So that was all the big stuff. Um there's lots of software stuff to talk about, but I feel like that's actually probably Better for next week um or when .

the ships well is .

all shipping next week, all the well, all the new oasis or shipping next week, all the apple intelligence ffa shipping someday in the unknown future.

You are a new apple O S. And you don't have apple intelligence. Are you a new apple OS?

yeah. Have you seen how you can move the icons around on the grade? Now game changer. I actually .

i'm solicitating notes. We're going to have to view these fines. I don't know how without apple intelligence, i'm legitimately I like how how are we gonna ite reviews a phones. So will only exist in this form for some number of weeks before the big update comes. It's so funny.

I'm less optimistic than that. I think I think there is A A super solid chance that the actual experience of apple intelligence is not going to show up in a real way until the iphone seventeen.

I would agree.

sure. Like I think these phones are the iphone fifteen plus, the camera control. And I think I think everyone who has to review this phone is going to have to spend a deeply hilarious amount of time litigating a button in a way that I think is so fun and so virgin.

And i'm very jealous to not get to do IT, but like the A I stuff is gna come in these like tiny bits and pieces. And if we weren't in a crazy AI moment where everybody had to pretends to have an AI strategy or wall street would run away from you, we would just call these things software. They're just features of apps. And supposedly, we're gonna get game changing theory that makes everything Better and solves phone interfaces forever, someday in the future. I am in no single way holding my read for any of that to happen on this cycle of this iphone.

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just saying I don't think I O S eighteen post camera button is like there's not a lot there. You mean as much as I want to care button and I most of iphone reviews that I written have been a long meditations on the camera. Happy to do IT .

again now with .

a surreal to do IT again. Um I just IT feels like the reason people will upgrade to this phone is because the AI capabilities will let them do stuff that they couldn't do in their old phone. The old phones are .

very capable taking a photo. Yeah I mean, to be fair, apple has been making this particular case since the ipad earlier this spring like we're deep into this now and and apple has been trying to sell you A I ready devices without real A I to do IT with for months now. Yeah, well.

I think the AI stuff was largely for investors and less for active people. That was always kind of my read on apple A I I.

My number one question is, why are the shipping is on september twenty when the A I features are first to hit weeks later.

october again, some features in data. I I don't this is.

but like why I that g like there or have to even have this ship, the thing where you pushed the button in syria, now the border around the screen instead of a little circle scheme, that honestly.

it's so funny, say that I was talking about that this afternoon. If they had just changed nothing else about theory, but made IT glow around the edges, everybody immediately would have been like a serious, Better. I would have everybody like a ten percent boost in series confidence.

anyway. I'm open to to to feedback from you all on how to review these devices or win um because i'm i'm honestly curious what would be the best service to everyone like a review of a phone that if you buy in november has been nothing to do with the phone that you bought is kind of weird my pain.

Yeah what you're actually getting at, what I would say was the kind of biggest vibe question that I had for you, somebody who's in the room because, alex, I were not in the room. And I would say the overwhelming sense that I got from people both at the verge and elsewhere, I was getting text messages from people who were like, this is the most boring iphone launch.

I can remember that like as as as a big flagship september event, we talk about this every year. Like this is apple's moment to speak to everyone like IT is IT is the one that everybody pays attention to. And I would say the overwhelming perception was that I was kind of a bust. How did he feel in the room as IT was happening?

I think this is why I kept noting the room was for, of people who are just excited to be there.

right? Yes.

so accurate. The excitement they needed and IT was packed. And people who are freaking out do the thing not to say I wasn't running around, try and take photos and apple of them as fast.

They can't like I like doing IT. It's like the funnest part of the job, but they had made the space feel very excited. And then you like take a step out of IT and you're like, okay, these are very iterated fends like super iterated fends.

The headphones upgrades apart from the one point five new models or sitter him to the point we're like one of them to even change at all. Uh, the washing case are also prepared. There's not any I got ta have IT upgrades unless you really give a ship about the camara button, right?

All of those upgrades are in the software that's apple's magic right harbor poa software services. And we're just waiting on the big stuff like if apple had d said, syria can now do this like APP coordination assistant thing that never wants to get you. I think everybody would have upgraded the phones tomorrow.

Yep, right. There were a bunch moments in the kino like that actually like there was a moment where in the visual intelligence demo the guy holds up a phone like a concert poster, something I think some kind of of that. And I was like, it'll input the information directly in the your calendar when you take that picture. And I was like, if I will buy any phone that will do that for me to that.

And IT just doesn't exist. There is also another extremely weird demo where somebody walked up to a dog and, like, ask the film what kind of dog IT was in our own color. Robson was like, why would you do that? Why would you walk up to a stranger talk.

just holding your phone out like this?

Why why we didn't just ask that we're kind .

of like that gave me the same vives as the the german I demo. Where are they would like use this to write for your kid to write a letter to an olympian. Like, oh, maybe you understand how people live and exist in the world. Like this is actually like bleak as hell and not cool. And the technology.

the G I think because the same deal you do with the matabor ons as you put a ball on your, like what cars, what dog is that but .

the thing was he walked up to the person holding the dog and the the information is that what he said is not, oh, that dog so cute. What dog is that he said, can I take a picture of your dog with my phone?

Yeah, I want to know, kind of talk and I want to talk .

to you and point out you often encounter cars with their owners. If you can have a dog with that, something that's that's like a little bit of an emergency.

Yes.

you're not like what breaks this?

I Better find out. Yeah stop here .

to he pass. I need to post .

ah ah I just think I think that is overwhelmingly the reason why at a distance this one a little content free, like even the feature boxes where at the bento boxes they put up at the end of every segment. Look at the iphone sixteen feature box, IT says USB c on IT and we didn't even enough to fill up the squares.

And so like these are super edition phones, which is key feature is the RAM and the memory band with to enable all of the A I stuff, which isn't shipping. So why would you be excited about? And I think that's really the gap. I think they should have said we're shipping these phones with the first wave of beta features and just held them three weeks and to october. But apple sell so many phones, so I don't think we can do that.

Yeah yeah. They couldn't afford to hold IT that long. They needed to get IT out if the software is not ready. So be IT.

And this good back, alex. Oy, you are saying is like the reason you do that is wall street, right? Like yeah, this is not a thing you do in the service of good user experience.

This is a thing you do because we are in a moment where if you appear to be behind on AI, you will be punished. And that is rather wrong. That is the world in which we live.

And so everyone is out here announcing features that aren't going to ship anytime soon or ever because you have to. And it's so an apple like to do that is so, so, so odd to see apple tell you its plans like this is not what apple does. This is not what apple has ever done. And and IT has to because IT can't build the things yet.

Did you can also noticed IT was doing a weird thing where they didn't call IT A I. They called him like our apple intelligence, but they wouldn't call IT A I. They would always default to .

machine learning. I clock to once that he said the word A I, but every other one was some like dance around IT. Yeah, yeah.

Like they were really going out of their way to not sound like google, to not sound like their competitors in this space, which kind interesting .

they think they have brained apple intelligence.

They're found they do have their own .

A I yeah have multiple AI models at one point. I believe with the watch you go back and watch IT, they point out that they are running many models to enable the features you enjoy today. And it's like, great. So is the same the same as I want to have to think yeah.

that was just like where are you talking to investors during the syndrome show? You're trying to sell me these phones didn't point where you even have buy now like verbitzsky thing stop. IT was weird, but you like about fine oven because IT feels like fine woven might be on yeah.

this is good before we leave, let's just little bit of accessory news and then we're going to get .

that just accessory lighting round.

This is an accessory lightning round um but the way we're going to do this is i'm going to tell you what's happening and if you're not interested, just not saying anything and will keep going.

I is a .

good thing. Number one, apple has a faster mag safe charger to go with the iphone A G 2， which I believe this might be the first time a phone company has actually said g two out loud on stage about a phone that people amErica can buy. That's very exciting.

I'm excited. We're gonna charge faster. Yes.

great. We love the fast charge. I said this in the lightning bug, but there was a time that need. I made fun of me for having a make safe charger. I was. We were in a restaurant somewhere, and I slapped the puck onto the back of my phone and me like my phone to me for, like.

ten straight minutes. I have a wie connected to a battery. Why would you pick the least efficient way of charging your .

phone with that wider? Because IT flocks a lot of flack.

It's good noise. I will say i'm a full convert into mag safe batteries. I say should have one over here. That's what I do now is like the mag say battery packs s because you have the all the wires yeah they get hot and is inefficient. And if you've a wire connected to a battery pack, David, you should just plug IT into the bottom of the phone.

Fuck way next up, like you're mentioning cranes. So I would actually like you to explain with me because we thought fine woven was probably dead. Apple didn't say fine woven is dead, but IT kind of seems like .

fine with fine .

woman being apple's terrible bad take on leather accessory. This was there.

Their cloth accessory was religious plastic that was bad to, like, replace all of the leather and be a lot more ego friendly. And that's probably true. But IT also sucked, and I got dirty .

and gross, and nobody liked .

the worse. Now you can buy a phone case made a fine woman is there's a wallet that's about IT. We ve reached out. We haven't heard anything back yet the while that .

strikes me as one where they're like, look, we have a bunch of these. We might as well keep IT for sail. It's like google with the chrome as now where they were like they had the same where they're clearly out on the chrome cast but they're like, look, there's a room full of these like if you wanted buy IT, please buy IT fine woman has been dead, I would say, since about like a day after IT .

launched the while. IT doesn't require the size and shape of the phone, right? So like you can't just sell off the access much iphone fifteen pro m excesses and you don't make iphone 4 promazine anymore。

You you're just like, I don't can you recycle IT? We recycle everything around here? Just turn IT in something else johna .

final is not fine.

Yeah yeah. Right next up, I would say one of the stranger stories of the day, uh, beats famous music company. You may have heard of them before.

They may get Brown. James wears them. Uh, made a bunch of iphone sixteen cases.

sure. beats. Beats made iphone sixteen cases.

IT feels like a real IT feels .

like they've been trying to figure out where beats sits in their lineup, especially as airports get Better. And their idea is what if beats s budget? You do cases now I do.

Do you think that's where this is going? interesting.

yeah. Because because they are putting the good tech in their headphones, but the headphones just also aren't don't have that that kind of cash that that quality feeling right. Um I just feel like my read on IT was that .

apple was just like let beat beats. I just want to say to everybody, listen to this, by the way, me, I is furiously googling because he doesn't believe me that I got this right, which is how wild that is. That beats making iphone sixteen cases.

And just like reading .

this news, I had to fact check me on the verge cast because he didn't believe me that beats was making iphone sixteen cases. This is, this is all you need to know about the story. There are forty nine dollars. They exist that they are cases, that they look like the apple cases. But they're by beats for some reason.

but still get a weird.

It's so weird.

Yeah, it's very.

it's very small. I was instructive, defied nothing to say, to say nothing.

This is is great, meant to a perfect moving on. Uh, bunch new watch bands, bunching new band colors. Can I interest you in in that?

Get one on esc. It'll be a quarter of the Price.

No mad verbal band, which is a big hit. Apple park today. I.

yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Many.

many compliments.

IT looks great.

I, that one, which is very good. And I also bought six apple watch bands on amazon for like eight books loving bits can't recommend highly.

The large ones are slowly poisoning David and you should buy the .

verge es purple sport. I do occasionally look at my risk just to make sure it's not like turning a color i'm not sect about. Um so far so good.

We're okay. The biggest question I have about access is me. I is how the camera control is going to work with cases. This is a question a lot of people are asking. It's this it's this capacity kind of flush control, which seems like if you have any kind of raised case at all, is gonna be hard to find a way to get your finger inside of do you a sense of how this might work?

Yeah, I although I think my worry is different than else is worry. Can you make a capacity button on a case? Connect to a capacity button on the phone is like pretty well and solved, right? They just have to be conductive to each other. And so apples on cases have a button that touches the other butter. And you're good if there's any play at all, there's any space between the two buttons.

Then not like push a little bit is gonna get and that I ve never seen this thing in a case that but already it's like to push IT, to do the light tap, to bring up the the various many years or controls is already like you have to think about how hard are you pushing. You don't excEllent pushed the button. And so if you have a little play and then you have to push have a cheap case or bad case that make IT remains to be sick.

That's why beats is leading the .

way with all signs that I covered. They got Jimmy. I ve been a covered dorry .

everything Jimmy ive vans, like, ever, just like, looks in the direction. Apple park, like, man, I really pulled in A.

There is so much money and we still make headphones.

There is a brief, a real period. A real thing that happened is a gym yi in doctor jay and tunk reason where apple employs, and they had no titles except for Jimmy and tray.

Is that true?

Those that was their title. That was that Jimmy. That was my title .

was jay Jimmy and Jimmy was jay. That's that's what I want to be great.

If apple is like another person, it's a title of jay. And jay left.

You but I failed dray .

there something like brand new engineering like you're right now like.

Put all those weights into a product to make .

you feel Better. Yeah, alright, we have gone way over. We all need to go to sleep. And me, I needs to go figure how to move this lap. Any parting thought for us, anything we missed big feelings about the the apple stuff .

today before we get out here. I'm very here to see how people want us to to evaluate these products, right? Like I don't I don't disagree with the sense of this was kind of A A small event in its way. I wonder if the products will feel bigger with the apple intelligence feature. So let me know how you want us to to talk with this because I suspect the answer is not just as regular new phones.

Yeah, I I think that's right. And I think especially if you have like a thing about the camera or the camera control or like a specific thing you're looking at, its like more than just my phone is dying, I need a new one. I'll buy the new one.

But is like is this worth the upgrade? Yeah I wanted know all your questions about is this worth upgrade so you can email first cab. I call the hotline.

It's excess verge one one. We have, uh, I would say, a bunch more apple stuff to do over the next couple of weeks. So we will have lots of time to talk about this.

Send us all of your questions for now. That is IT. That's the first test.

And that's IT for the bird cast this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six bird one one.

The birdcage is the production of the verge and box menu podcast network. Our show is produced by handle r. Marino and leon James. That's IT we'll seen next week. Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A, A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced club.