The next next thing in AI and AR
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How I work in the very chest, the flagship podcast of the ARM architecture that be great. And then if if anyone knows of arrival, podcast is a flexible podcasts of like risk the I would love to know who they are so we can start a fake beef.

but only risk we.

right? No one wants in x eighty six.

Yes, no, yeah. No one wants that. We only want the cool, weird ones.

If anyone knows of the flagship podcast of the X, T six are, I would will send him a gift basket. I mean, there, you know, someone ought to be nice to them time your friend, you like all strands here. Hi, house heat is here, not David. Pi, alex, hi.

i'm not David, but but happy to be here. David is off this week.

but we've got alex, which is going be great. There's a lot of AI news or so much of VR news, including some some scoop sota meta in the reality labs division that alex is here to talk about and have some insight into. But we should start with like the news, which is a weird bit of news, in that half of the news got delayed.

weird. Microsoft copilot plus pcs are now shipping. They have cochon that dragon x chips inside them.

This is the beginning of what might be the end of the intil't dominance, the x ty six dominance, four windows machines, but microsoft to delay recall, which, which is the flagship feature of the code plus PC, because of horrible security concerns. Just a weird moment. Brands, right? Like.

yes.

a weird stuff that even the review units like to arrive on time because disabling recall.

yeah, like this is while we were expecting to get these a week ago to start kind of reviewing umboo of the embargo list and we got them the day of the embargo, like tom's got both the elites and the plus and is checking those out. And in a whole bunch of other people in the team, i'll have them and are just we are all in this one room just seriously benchmarking constantly.

Work is there are having a lot of fun doing IT, but we've still get a lot of work to do. So far, we figured out that some stuff is working, some stuff isn't. They're still a lot of weird like emulation bugs and stuff.

I think adobe premier was having a weird issue where would work with the elite processor but not necessarily with the plus processor. Some games crashing. Some of this might be like alleviated with more updates from everybody. But what was supposed be this big, monumental moment for microsoft and call calm and everybody instead was like we did IT .

here is we turned half that even in best by there's like signs that a recall coming later on the demo units because so you don't know if we show previous weeks microsoft announced ed cpc and the flex feature was recalled, which even if he was working in a totally secure ways, weird. The computer watches everything you do on the computer. The windows watches everything you do.

Take screen shots of IT uses a local, generate A I model to understand with the screen shots, and then you can respect what there is a website I thought I liked. Did you remember what is in the computer will tell you I was working on this document. Remember what you can talk to the computer about what you've done with that, which some people, David pears, very excited about because David would like to be friends with the computer. That's my understanding of, first.

just friends.

just, just friends. David is happily married as a child. Other people would like to be more than friends with the computer as we have learned time and time again, as the AI industry has dominated the admins. Microsoft was storing the screen shots in basically plain text. So there's just like open database of everything you're done in your computer and in your computer a huge security hole.

Mike shot, is that a history of security problems? Recently, nadella sent out a memo, everyone being like, if you have to choose between shipping fast and security, I want you to pick security, they and act recall. And that works like, this is a huge curry fought, and they d just donate IT.

So they thought they could fix in time. They issued blockers for fixing in time, and then they realized they couldn't. They let IT cranes.

I felt like, I feel like that's only half of the story here. And that's just the background. That's part of the starter step and part of why it's not a flash of launch. Like recalls. A great feature for what I think of is like the local news, right? Like yeah, this is a great dinner for the local news and that is how you get a lot of mainstream attention on new things. But the real thing here on all of these snaps, rim PC, is performance and battery where they have not been competitive with them, serious chips on ma books for a long time, and everything they are yeah.

yeah, that is absolutely the the big moment here, like the other part, was could be really cool. And that was gonna be what picked up people really excited to to maybe upgrade. But for the rest of us is okay.

Is this finally the moment where ARM on windows works? Because we've seen IT so many times before and every time IT has fAllen, super shorts of the mark at this time. Like from the early benchMarks, battery life look pretty good.

Batteries in that like that that that in chip range, we're still testing. So I don't want to say which in chip, but it's in that like in chip range, uh, the the speed is looking pretty good. Gaming is like possible. We still got .

some work to do .

there to figure this out, but it's a surprise IT definitely doesn't seem like this is going to be a moment where just quite on blows everybody away. Kind like how apple did with the in one chip where we were like holy apple actually did IT doesn't seem like we're going to have that, but it's still kind of too early. Tell what's .

interesting. Apple hasn't even had the incremental moments after one like m two. M one is faster, but IT wasn't the big step from right.

M three, m two was faster, but IT wasn't the same kind of revolt or experience. So cow comes coming into is a very different set of expectations. Yeah right. Like if you can match the m one and you've done great, that's a big step for over intel. If you can beat the m three or the m two year that the same incremental progress is ever else is mate.

Yeah, I think because kind of Normal, we sometimes expect everybody to just blow each other out of the water. But these, like windows, hugely complicated. To run IT is not an easy thing to run. IT has there are so many like dependencies, code for old code that IT has to work through and stuff.

And then a lot of times that that stuff isn't built for armand, so they are having to do all this emulation more so than like an a mac wood because of back just is all built from apple. And so not all of IT, but most of its built by apple for apple. And I can kind of run IT and knows what to do. That big like translation moment has IT quite happened for for time.

They've been trying and .

nobody's wanted to do IT because it's like, well, you don't nobody makes a good ARM chips. So why should I build my my programs for ARM? And now it's like this could change that.

This could change that. But IT is so, so, so early to tell. Yeah, I get the chip .

story underneath this. But does microsoft actually think that anyone is going to switch from mac to windows because of this AI stuff? Because I look at this and it's like you basically need to tell me that i'd never have to actually understand or know how to use windows to actually switch the lenders. That's how I feel about windows like A I needs IT is to be so dramatically different from what I expect from a laptop as a lifelong mac, apple lock and blue bubble guy. And like this recall thing sounds cool, but it's like I you would literally have to say AI is running your laptop for you, for me to considers switching because of the software locking.

This is a pressure dressing, right? Like this is just for them to be like, no, we can't lose any more windows people to chrome or or max like we have to keep him here with cool features like that's pretty. It's not like let's entry these people backeds, please don't leave.

Yeah no actually I wonder with that you know I really so how .

I feel that .

i've heard a lot of ceos that looks and sure, you have to describe the eyes as a platform shift. And i'm always like from what to where like what platform are you talking and what they want. What they're trying to invoke is mobile, right? This is a platform shift on the order of mobile.

We went from lantos to smartphones and that smart phones dominate computing. And what they are what they're trying to say, this is another platform shift on that scale. And it's like is IT like where like you still have to have a phone to use the chatbot.

But is that and I think part of this window stuff for microsoft is very much okay. We own the entire stack. We have this time investment and open the eye.

We've built copilot. We have all these ideas about what a computer can be here. Like, here's a new way to use a computer that is meaningfully different than before.

Also, you have to reinstall edge also will push you towards our browser. I don't know that apple has different ideas. We talked about IT in the show after every day.

We pt like apple's idea is for what A I can do in its Operating system are basically the same as microsoft. So the idea that is a platform shift, I think, is under some pressure. But I know that's how these companies think about IT that this will entice you to switch.

But but it's just features right now. It's like I still have to look at the windows nav bar and figure that thing out, right? And it's like i'm just not going to do that.

I'm sorry, time more and like i'm just not. So yes, I think they think of IT that way. But IT shows I think this recall thing shows where the real platforms are. And it's like building two decades of software lock in on top of hardware, which is not A I right? A I is software that you're putting on existing hardware at least right now.

Yeah and i'm curiously, you know people are living if you have an idea of where this platform shifts is, i'm dying to know what people think. But IT is what IT is, what nadella has told me. It's what sooner.

But I ot like down the line. The CEO of the biggest companies are like, this is the platform shift. We cannot get left behind. Like in particular of microsoft, there's like a fear that they got left behind in mobile and they can get left behind this time. And so if you see them that mean they have been ahead of the curve at every single time.

you didn't hear everyone say it's gonna trillions of dollars is worth of optimistic robot. That's that's the platform ship.

I mean that the true platform ship is kicking back with a bruskly let option to steal your computer for you. great. If A I express themselves, not as A I in integrated in the Operating system, but you have an optimistic that knows how to use windows in that, that's actually what I love .

that that would be alexy in the top, warn would get the one that knows how to use. Max.

yeah, I like you joke about how you know, you would love to not have to use software at work. Now you just have an optimist user software for you.

Yeah, I need to a full, fully complete of what that can use octave. And if you can just get me there, i'll do IT. If you can, if objects can find my expense, my god, those codes that the city hold of these companies will not come on decoder where I will just ask them to look at their and we'll see we are going to test. I will say there are a running list of my favorite crums at the company and the ones are people who developed their language.

So my number one favorite is, uh, we have a support room for a financing am or people just file tickets and some people have discovered um well, some people come in there and they ask for are a nice questions so like hello, I need help with and some people have discovered this room is staffed a box that just file tickets and they just yell mounds. They're just like invoice to forty five like that. All in the other people are very and is the greatest person in the entire company this people realize against the robot.

Um the other one is the verge benchmark term where it's just people communicating and increasingly arcane benchMarks and they've developed their own language about when does on ARM match works and they're are not using the Normal rule like no L M can figure out what's going on in this room. Statistically, this language has never existed before. It's very good.

I'm excited for IT. They're going to come. We're going to have all the reviews. I think David is going to do a full show with time and eight hundred and reviews at her, which is running down on the stuff on tuesday. We dox, yeah okay, so will come back around with that stuff.

I'm calm has made a lot of promises here, right? They bought that company, novia, which was a bunch of x apple engineers on a chip team who were making server chips. And they said, no, make a consumer chip insets because apple didn't want to use its arara tecture al to make server chips.

And they thought there was this big opportunity there. But then quark on about them and said, no, make the next generation of standard ragon. So they shifted them.

I don't have you know there's some backdoor here. Uh, ARM decided that coco's license didn't cover this. And so ARM is suing cocom right now. Clock on suing armed back over these chips, which is bananas. It's going to come to some as there's no way that actually ends up in anything but payments.

But these chips are like very, very controversial in their way because it's a bunch of example designers who left and start a company and caught step them up to go compete with apple's consumer chips. Can they deliver is a big question. I'm excited to see our reviews and see if that's true. Same also this last, this is just the funniest lost.

It's a good ball suit.

but I give your army like screw sucka.

I feel like call on, get sued a lot like every time you turn around somebody y's like, no, I hate you bright comes like, i'm soon and you, I am so you yeah this company .

is under fire. And by the way, we talk a lot about five g in the show. The level of interest in six g is at at least partially driven by people wanted him to get away from caucus five japans.

Like what if what if there was an a dominant player in wireless that we could get away from? And so there's already talk about six just to get away from koko. Like apple bought all of intel's modern division and they still haven't produced radio that can compete quon its friends.

Get ready for the sixty hypes as long as people love doing this company and that going to drive the sixty hype cycle. Something something talk about this is kind of look like a gadget rapid fire round yeah so well, it's up. Um we've learned some new stuff at A W V C about various apple products. Ah jane had a pretty good swoop. Um apple is extending home kit to use the ultra wide band ship in its phones to automatically unlock doors, which is cool so a combination of ultra iba and blue flow energy you can sense when you are six feet away from your door on the outside and walking towards IT and automatically .

unlock the door which .

is you sick if work. But uh, if you have a smart door lock c you need a new delhi to enable yeah.

not have a work with that. This is.

it's a lot out. He is, I get two out. Is is this is something .

only this reminds me of the digital ID the drivers license thing like IT just seems like a bad idea like I get that IT sounds cool like you're in a product meeting and kubota and it's like, oh, we should digitize this, but I don't really want my device automatically unlocking .

my house yeah, yeah, yeah you're sick. Well it's so the argument I thought this way about um the feature where you can just point your phone at the door lock in unlocks you in express me but the same way if you use mass and that you can like beep your from transonic sub just pay is and like whatever and I like I don't know, I definitely want to authenticate before and I know if you still my coffee here in my hats, like that level of security is the same. And I think one good question is like whether that is an acceptable level of security.

But IT is, I guess.

is the answer. Like if you have my phone, can you should do you be able to get my house? Is like a good question, never and ask.

And then you can just that setting how if you want, if you have my phone, your six years away from my house and you're walking towards that, should the house automatic? Different question. Like that's a new I would .

like this feature if you could set IT to where a face ID hadn't been used and say, an hour or two hours, then IT doesn't work. But something like that, something we're like, the recency of me unlocking that advice means that is definitely in my hand.

you know? Yes, where are your phone has been stolen in? Another iphone detects you sheared and your house lacks down. Like like the bizarre used to find my network. It's interesting because apple has put a lot of chips and a lot of radios and a lot of things recently and hasn't really done a lot with them.

So is alter why band ships have been in a lot of apple devices require a while now, and some of the uses are cool, right? Like find my is a little bit more precise. If you have the right selection of alter White band devices, you can like, point your phone at a hometown d and send the music to IT, which is supposed to like magic .

IT works half the time. Yes.

I said supposedly like magic, like if you were a shit magician. Yes.

if I did magic, that would be my magic tric.

Those people like i'm floating and they are religious, like extansion on their tiptoes.

That's me.

That's not say, but if you're always doing that, it's through the wrong angle. And sometimes like you understand any tips is that's about how well the home pod works. Then they added treaty as just that was the other gene script we ship.

Like now they're adding other radios to these devices. You see that they're like, okay, wifi and blue can do all the things we want to do. They can't do IT at the power level, at the location precision level, whatever is that just can't do IT. So we need to add more radius this thing. And then you see the animations from the new theory, oh, they're super getting ready to take all the ports and bonds.

They're like .

there's forty five different radio for every level of like precision, location and power that you can think of. None of them are unable to do much and the buttons are gonna capacity. Very soon.

the arch of phones is that they just become pains of glass that then start to curve that we then put in front of our eyes like that is the next ten years of technology.

I want to come back. I want to come back when you talk. But in the vision pro to some extent. So that's the ut, B, V, chip, were seeing apple store to use IT in more interesting ways as russia on the home. Very curious if they ever acknowledge these thread radios.

We were kind of hoping they would IT dc, but it's interesting that there is a bunch of thread ata in these devices. You could do all kinds of things with inner Spark home because they use basically no power compared to everything else. And then the other thing we found out, which is really interesting, we give up on what else, uh, is that the next generation of car play that no one has shipped yet will only be wireless, which is fascinating.

So I, you know, i'm obviously accessory car place cartier s and the code and I just can use that. They always like me will see. Um so as you just to set, just to reset, everyone's like understanding your car because because it's a very confusing right now.

There's a car play you have right now, which is basically just like a second monitor for your phone. That's very much what's going on. So you plugged in your car, even a wireless car, play your phone, sends out another video stream and receives touch and put from your car, and you ve got a second month for a fun.

And if you think about IT, almost everything that's happening on a screen is just phoned stuff, right? It's music, it's maps, but it's all just running on your phone and trying on this display. Not a lot of car stuff over there.

Apple has lightly extended this to be able to send a map to some instrument clusters so they can send multiple the streams out from a fn, but it's still phone stuff like irvings local on the phone without any understanding of the data from the car. The next generation car play, which they showed two years ago. I even realized this was two years ago.

I thought this was last year, two years ago. W, B, C, twenty, twenty two. They showed that mock up look like a giant screen and other screen and it's all car play.

And there's like forty five clock on IT is no do with all that screen. The weather in ten different cities, which you definitely need when you're driving. You know, if this is the action our car play and then they showed a bunch of car maker logos.

Remember this? They showed bunch of car maker logos and all those car makers like what that was. This happened porch and asia Martin announced last year they would shot cars this year.

Haven't heard a word about these cars. No idea when you're coming up and that's IT. So apple had sessions, this year's W W C, and I ran around talking a bunch people.

They're just about car playing, what's going on. And I can't tell if this is a change and strategy, if this is always been the approach or if this is just apple soften its language. But apples basically saying to carmakers, look, people have iphones. They love art play. What if you use our design to a kit to redesign all of the stuffing your cars, and i'll looked really good together, and then you need I.

Is that the context here that apple just abandoned project tighten, so if they're not doing a fully integrated vehicle, when to make sense for them to make this more than open, this to me, is like them going to round of apple TV plus and airplay, realizing that we are not going to make a TV uh, and so therefore we want TV plus everywhere. Is that not a fair analogy here?

I can't necessarily tell how much I had played into IT, right, like this saying I can't tell. This was always the approach and that is soft, erin. The language, like the technical approach, is that you have an iphone, you connect a car, play your iphone will go download a bunch of apple car maker co branded assets like in the video, as they oppose that, they referred to this as a co branded experience. When have you ever heard apple described any thing is a colbrand ed experience .

that's .

been red short dows on .

the like at the very beginning that .

wasn't cobre ed. So like there's some element of apple designers and carmaker designers like working together to design biometry for car planters. Weird like this is a public or not.

This isn't like some deeper, dark reporting. This is me saying you can go watch the video as our public. And there's calling IT a co branded experience where we're going to work together to express your car maker brand identity inside of .

the apple design pocket makes since that all the cars, U. S. Are terrible.

it's up. So the ideas, you have an iphone and you get this like upgrade here, your car, you so everything looks like car play. weird. How is apple going to make any money in? No.

I think I think this like, I mean, for a super wealthy company, you like this, this is just like really good branding, right? You can go to show you you can show you your dominance in design and and show these companies and like how specific way .

they're going to show their dominance. And design is actually my favorite partial thing. Only font you're allowed to use an extension ation.

I is apple sentence is go. You can change how, why IT is. You can change our structure is you can attach size IT.

You can make IT really thing you like and then I look at all these different things you can do with respond. It's a variable type face and it's like, yeah, it's only one like portion. Gm don't get to use different funds.

Comic sense get get right. Like that's weird. Like so there's element of control where they're they're doing a very apple thing and then there is an element of complete chaos.

Shopping is really fasting, which they have not talked about at all, which is they will when you have like the next generation car play interface up and you're like, I want to control my massaging seats in my aster Martin, you can push the button that says, control the apple cfcs co labelled button. And instead of showing you the next nice car play thing, it'll do a thing called punching through the automated ker. You, I and i'll .

just show you whatever garbage.

smart seat, this is crazy like this is, this is the concession to make IT all I know. Because what car makers have been worried about is I have to build everything three times. They have to build their own native one.

Because you need to have something, you need to Operate the entire car with that a phone, right? I'm non negotiable. You, my car, then you need the next generation carpi version of everything.

And then presumably google will do something for and ID, right? So what are you going to do? And they don't want to build things three times. So apple solution is like or build at once. And for some stuff, we'll just let you show word stuff.

I I can't wait for theory powered by ChatGPT in my car to just like open the doors like while i'm driving when request them as I see to turn on and I just lucena tes .

and I and then to bring .

this around, apple wants this to only work wirelessly because their goal is that corporate will be connected, active and Operating the interface of your car by the time you open the door. And if not, by the time you open the door, by the time the screens light up, right, so you get the car sit down, the screens light up, its car play IT should not be sit down, your car turned on. And then like you have some like loading process and can only accomplished of a wireless a car place is only going to be wireless for whatever car makers adopt .

the next generation. I'm hesitant to say this because I very against this move. But isn't that also just a precursor to than removing all the ports that like it's got to be .

wireless because we're going it's not not a pressure to and it's funny because to make this work, apple also has to give up some control of what runs where, right? You don't want your spending eto running on the phone. So apple, your apple designed speed omelet or delightful cover anted experience to be more accurate, need to run locally on the car.

So this is the first time I can think of that any apple assets are going to get loaded onto somebody else's computer system in that way outside of, to your point, eath, the apple TV plus APP on like rocus, right, which is where apple ships and APP. And this is the the the split is kind of same. It's so okay, we're we're going to give you an asset package of apple things to run locally on the car for things that we cannot risk.

If there's a disconnect, the spitting inter, the turn signals that that is that right? And there is some differentiation how that stuff works, like the truly critical stuff cannot be touched. They call that the overlap yer, that's turn signals and hazard indicators, the speech enter and suffix the needles that those assets can get refreshed over time.

So those run in a different layer called local U I. There's everything that runs on the phone in the middle. There's like I don't know you want to like mess with your sports settings and in your fast car like that will just be the weird d automatic er you shining through a car light and so this kind of feels like a mess, right?

It's unclear who will take this and who will use all of car play to redesign the entire car to be car play to be apple and who will say, okay, we took next generation car play. We fund cool news biometry. Every other part of the car controls will be the existing U I. Because we can the car place. And honestly, based on the feeding we get on the show, it's like some of our audience will pick the car makers that use all car play like they will make an affirmative decision to be like, you know that car maker toyota uses all of carp ay, we're done with them over hda, which is like here's you're weird he .

did see the third path is riva or tesla where it's totally controlled by the author maker. And like revision is a great example of, I think unite both test driven rivals. You like like I think the interface is great. Um it's very snappy. Obviously miss some of the iphone connection, but I could also see more automated kers going that direction.

Yes, you but they have to make good user interfaces a big difference between yeah yeah like revient in tesla with good user reader faces to part everybody.

Like you turn the car on, it's like do you want to like play a game on netflix? You it's.

I also so revision .

just upgraded in the revision, the generation two or one trucks just come out. Um they've changed the the computing architecture of those is different, but then they also updated the interface to be more salted. I mean they love and religion and like using IT.

That said, a look at the parking lot at apple park when we are to B, C, A lot of those people like, right? And there's all these rumors about apple and revision doing something together. Uh, apple music just came to the rival in your face. If if tesla is never gona break, I feel confident about that one. Just a prediction make based on nothing.

I know the tesla. You is going to be x to common a few years. That's the .

direction tesla will be blocked like fully, just like a dirty just ivan is still in the place where they might try another stuff to claw back some market share to wins and newspapers. And there are awful lot of it's california people like people like truck there, but it's something in that is right. Moving on that see, it's like a fast round, not quite lightning. Where is moving? Cranes tell you about this remote because you're very excited about a home remote.

You you know, I love a home remote. I'm still sad about loge detect. I still have to like the fancy to the logitech remote. They had soft touch plastic good, which means it's starting to.

I have A T V O mote in the corner. This house is not a good.

so bad, like the ride on that soft ches so gross. But there's there's a kick started happening right now for the haptic que R S ninety and the R S ninety x, and they promise all the stuff, all the big universal remote promise, which is like control stuff via blue too. If you can control IT via I R, you can control via wifi, usually that require some sort of hub that you have to plug in somewhere in your house.

This appears to require no hub. And also it's just got a big screen on IT. So it's instantly the cool est remote you can have in your house.

And it's first to be able to control all the part homes and stuff. And like this, that logic did this. I've got a control that does.

This doesn't have the cool screen and IT required to hub. So this is instantly cooler. And this also is gonna come soon, rather than discontinue. Actually kick started this, like the kick start, a part of this is the really big heavy cavet because there's a hope bunch integrations that .

they are promising.

No, not there yet. There's no matter support there's there's no support for some of the other smaller like radios and stuff like that. So this is like cool need. We're like two minutes away .

from samsung, mean like big ba and your TV will not do everything for you want IT.

We are there. We are it's coming yeah like A I is probably, you know, the reason lunch I got out of this business was because they said nobody wants these and me and four other people like .

I want my phone to be my universal home remote that's IT. I don't want another remote. I won't fewer remotes. Can we make that happen?

Yeah, I just I just how I use my phone.

but like I just getting like who is this for I guess is a question for me.

It's me me what show?

It's mean. And four other people. It's the four people who are still sad that are a large tech.

Whether I see a screen like this, I just think about how slow IT will be very touching about and nothing happening, right? Like, yeah, I know that, oh, my G I wanted scream like this, but you know, that thing you do with a touch rein retouch IT in the button looks like something happened, but nothing happened.

That's this product, almost like a guarantee but that this and I will say that is I love that it's called the haptic que R S ninety, great name, great name for a universal, not fully good name. Uh, I just worry that actually people just use the apps and I smart TV and what this thing is trying to solve is not mean that's why large I got to the business, but we can't control the up on your T V. We can't see your TV.

You yeah they will. So we'll see how this says IT. IT looks like it's going to be funded. IT looks like of people are invested in IT.

This is like hot on the heels that company brilliant going on a business yeah which jane covered and they're like we're going on a business but like the thing we put in your wall will still work so brilliant put like a touch train in your wall that can control everything, which is I was super hype on because the idea of having an in wall sonus controller screen seems sick, right? You walk in the room and like, i'm to pick a song, a book. I'm not using my phone like whole thing and then they just like going to and it's like, that is always the word with all of these things.

Yeah, this gonna like almost four hundred dollars. Probably what IT comes out does .

too much speaking. Let's to do one more graduate than I want to talk about what's going to A M B R with. We mentioned risk, we at the top and we mentioned companies in my thought of business, uh, framework is shipping the laptop fourteen, which is faster because they're going to have a risk of a chipping IT.

This is the competitor ARM, right? This is the open source competitor ARM that has the performance per watt characteristics. I'm kind of dying to try that. And also, I have no idea .

what's going to run. Also, I think one guy pointed out that IT runs IT will run about as fast as as very pia.

The I started somewhere.

baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. Yeah, I have no idea what can run this, but I want to like this. Just this cool. This is a kind of thing. I just want to have one.

I like the actual line from the company in the P R. Is the mainboard is extremely compelling. But we should be clear that in this generation, IT is focused primarily enabled ling developers, tankers and hobby to start testing and creating and risk like don't use this, the preferable set in performance aren't yet competitive with our until an andy powered for import mainboard ds. It's like, uh, this is just a plain .

will see storage the risk.

The nerds in our audience have been very excited, risky for a very long time because ARM is that like dominant causes monopoly that like the ARM architectural license is the thing, and there hasn't been anything to compete with IT, which is why everybody is moving to IT, including microsoft.

Because if you want performance for what you end up on this architecture, which means companies like quite on and and dominate the market, x apple, and you need an architectural license from ARM to expand beyond IT and armor ism giving us up anymore, which is part of the reason they're suing calm because welcoming the new viewer, ships fall under its architectural license and arms says no. So there's all the stuff that's wrapped up when you have one dominant architecture that is owned by a company. And risk v is the .

thing yeah IT not close fast as or .

as right for, but it's the thing that might break .

IT was IT in video that tried to buy ARM a couple .

of years ago. Yeah yeah. So ARM was, I mean, the finances of later is right, like IT was. It's a weird english company that started to licensing these designs.

IT got is softening bought IT right in this by revision fund in the heady days of the softening collision fund or moster. Son was like, h everything I touch will be a anopheles. They didn't work out.

You might all we work blue that entire business up. They try to, they start divesting of assets in a sell ARM. And video wanted to buy IT.

Basically, everyone yelled, like, everyone yelled, apple yelled, quite like all the architectural license is like, you cannot let our competitive and company. No, ARM is now public instead, which is a good outcome. Or there is a bed.

Fun fact, I M going public made up for all the losses the vision found .

to have for the last ten years. crazy. Uh, somewhere, somewhere that we were. People are like they're .

just launch .

to the new product. I could the world. Style I. Watched one episode of we rash like I can't live, I on, I cannot be a part of this again, right? Let's wrap up by talking about A R and VR. He, you've got a scoop, meet, just reorganized reality loves to shock. With that, the vision pro team is trying to make a cheaper heads that there's a lot of action here.

What's yeah maybe we will start with vision pro. Um the information had a good story out um confirming and putting more details on what girl and others have reported that apple is indeed working on a cheaper vision pro. They hope to release that by the end of next year and they have shelves a future iteration of v two of the vision provided is today.

So another high and very expensive and they are trying to get this cheaper one more into the ballpark of a new premium top line iphone Price. So we're talking twelve to fifty hundred dollars. I had heard even before the vision pro came out that apple was already working on this cheaper version.

Um apparently when mark zuker berg was talking to me and others and basically saying i'm going to scorch the earth with cheap headsets forever and not really care about making a business which we will get to in the next story um apple was like, oh okay we need to like really work on a on a cheap one and get IT out. So they've been working on IT for already couple years. I do expect we'll see you next year um whether ships next year.

T B T. And I think you know i've only he used to the vision pro once and that initial demo that we all had A W D C share. But I would think that you know if I was in the ballpark of fifteen hundred dollars, um I would maybe pull the trigger even if the OS in the software had meaningfully gotten Better just because of the immersive ness of that.

I kind of this is three thousand is just like it's it's out of touch for most people and it's still out of touch with fifteen hundred but it's much more of a almost impulse buy for some people at fifteen hundred um so yeah and I will get hopefully more developers interested um but yeah apples plug away on and and I think what what the the other part of this the fact that they are cancelling the more expensive one or shelving IT just goes to show that they packed so much tech into this thing that um IT may not actually be a good product and they kind of like I found that out already. Know you talk about how you don't use the vision pro anymore. Um it's a great demo. Honestly, I was probably top three demos i've ever done of technology and it's something that I consistently hear people do not use after the first couple weeks.

So would you say this was a homer car?

No, I mean, IT thought like that. ridiculous. right? Like, like some focus. They wanted to be something I think about the fact there was a great demo. I so much of technology IT, and I was like, great demos of all parties products, right? And that was the vision proved to a tea.

And every AI then I was so far is than that from unless you have some very narrow use case where A I can solve a problem consistently for you. Every other dinner is like, what what I know, how to do that the vision provide, they have to make a big decision. And here is the thing that I noticed W.

C. Have been thinking about in that opening keynote video when they were like start and getting off the plane yeah and ever like doing the inflection and ever really where light seeds during this vividly particulars farma asic opening, they had mike rockwell on the plane who is that he's in charge, the vision pro. And he turns to the camera with the eyes on, and they played IT for last. The eyes were joke. And those .

those eyes are shipping anymore. I can tell you .

that that's what think the idea, if you remember the initial vision pro stuff was like, the eyes will place you in the environment. They're very they were so serious about the eyes, so serious it's like dead serious about the eyes. I asked in one of our breathings because the only question asked anybody during our vision provings or um have two of you ever look each other with the eyes like two people ever existed in the same in morning vision pro and when you looked at each other with yeah as you like and they were like that funny because they were dead serious that this thing would bring you into the right and they meant IT they were very IT was sincere in that apple new age, sincere way like when you go to apple park and you walk towards the theater they play new age and music at you in a dead sincere about IT yeah and i'm like this makes me feel like come in to call there's a gap there betwen like how sincere apple can be in the world. And they were super sincere that these eyes would be the thing that enabled you to door a heads at all the time.

Now let's be real. Did the eyes because they wanted to be able to not call of your headset.

right? So this is what i'm getting at this next version, this cheaper version. They have to decide if this is a wear heads set or an air. I will, in playing the eyes for laughs was the thing that signal to me, okay.

this is going to be, I bet, uh, a strongly that there will not be the ice in any future vision pro product.

And i'll tell you what, just a bunch of cost. Well.

yes, no one's taking you on that bet like your money.

I'll t IT was a Johnson.

I ve think I know this from talking to people who worked on the division pro IT was john Y I ve who insisted that the ice ship, I don't know the exact dollar amount, but I added an absurd amount of cost and manufacturing complexity to the vision pro .

um because I do that curved glass.

Well, the curve.

the curve glasses .

was having the front facing O L D. Um I think it's an old O L D right with with the eyes IT. Third, at a cost, no one wanted to ship at h accept Johnson and his people, and they have all left and so um and they're making a joke about IT in key note a video so um yeah I don't think I don't think the eyes are long for this world but if you get .

rid of that and you're like you're not now you cannot be perceived but other people in the world, the thing is if your set right, and that to me is concession in one way, right, like they talk about, the thing is A R A R, A R A R. But if you can't wear IT with other people like severe outside, and then everything they've announced since is immersive, right?

New immersive videos, new experiences, new immersive games is like, this is becoming of your inset and fifty hundred of your headset right now. The state, the state of the yard there is pretty good product, right? Like you can make something great for a fifteen nine .

you are yeah and I guess that maybe brings us tomato, right? Should we go to that? yes. So meta obviously was first to this. But oculus a long time ago they restructured um reality labs, the division that does all of their hardware uh and horizon that cursed a platform. Um this week I had this scope in command line.

They're forming two new groups that reality labs is now metaverse and wearable ables so you will notice there is no VR in those two phrases right? Um the rift i'm sorry, god, look, the rift. While the quest is now under metaverse reporting to official shaw, he used to run as ID instagram.

Ming is a software guy. So you basically have the the thing that created this whole org that the company really about its future on is a subdivision of a software org. Meanwhile, wearables, uh, i'm told, is leaning heavily into the rain bands.

Um I published this internal memo from boys, the C. T, O, basically saying that the rabbits have been a much bigger hit than any of us anticipated. Zuck burg and others have been kind of allowing to the throughout the year. I've heard it's somewhere in the ballpark of a million ish units that they've sold, which is three to four x the first version of the right bands, and they're saying really good attention in the product. So people actually using IT consistently um I have them I have have the A I turned on and I wrote a in command line a few weeks ago. Not trying to tell myself in the back, but I will just saying that meta is quietly rent winning the AI wearable race here because the rebels are uh something that matter has not done in a while you could argue um maybe ever but shipped a .

really good consumer .

product .

hundred like Normal people like, something that tech people like because it's got the A I like the A I so hlubi ates but it's very fast and it's um right like maybe half the time right so like I pointed at a tree in my backyard and I say, what is this tree and how do I water IT? I got IT right. So like that's not it's still a demo, right? It's not like i'm it's not going to like change the world.

But in a couple years, you can see where that's going. And it's like, oh, if I have reliable visual AI in ravens, I may not I may use my phone less, which is the reason that is doing all this by the way. Um so they are putting way more resources behind the ray band line um and they also have these full fledge A R glasses that they've been working on since two thousand eighteen code named ryan, which are insanely expensive.

They cost thousands of dollars to make. Um I ve heard from people inside meta that say again, incredible demo. Um they really feel like theyve gotten there on the on the hardware.

They are not sure what the software use cases will be at. They're doing a lot of reviews ever right now. I expect we'll get a teeth of that layer this year.

Connect their conference. Um so they have these two lines that they are doing with glasses. You've got the A R glasses which I leaked the horror p for matters uh hardware uh, a year so ago. So we know that the ray bands are going to be updated, uh, next year with a little heads up display. So think more google glass, less full A R magic leap.

They're going to come with a rist band that uses neural interface technology from the start up, meta t got control labs to control the display and to control some of the other inputs because you can also like play podcast through the. They have a speakers in the friends right um that shipping next year that's gonna interesting. Um and in the A R glasses, the full fledge ones that are going to be more expensive and also have the band will be twenty twenty seven.

So this is the path meta is on. They're going full on glasses and really deprived tizer. They hate when I say this, but IT feels like that the quest because the quest is still really struggling. They're not really they have some early product market fit with gaming, but the retention is still not very good.

I've heard um and the quest 3， they got a lot of really good things about the mixed reality, right? But it's just it's just not I don't know why I want to put on where is the ray bands. It's like I get that I have audio on all the time, I can take calls, I can take photos and videos and I have A I that is starting to work more and more.

And by the way, they look like Normal glasses, right? Um so it's just obvious that this is the direction they should go. They seem to now be realizing that they'll putting all their chips there and laying off some people as a result. So that was the news automatic this week.

So what's really interesting the clusters is the rate of innovation on the questore or improvement, I guess, in the queste skyrocketed after the vision broken out there. I should ship a bunch of these features like I guess there's some competition like here's tears travel mode. We took him away, it's back.

They increase the fidelity of the path through right, like just stuff that they should have done, but they're still not it's not winning. And even apple, if they come out with the fifteen hundred, our version and the vision pro, we still to make the case of V R. But that has been trying for a long time.

And now with medicine are at these glass is the thing that ever always knew was the thing, right? It's augmented reality glasses where actual light passes through to this way and you're looking at actual things inside of screens and then we can put some information near or around or over those real things. Turns out that's the thing everybody has wanted the whole time. But why would apple continue to boon dog its wait towards the vision pro, even a fifteen hundred dogs?

Well, because they're on this path, right? Apple was working on air glasses like a yan. I met a and they basically shelved IT uh semi recently in the last year, two for the headset rout.

They think that if they can keep iterating on the headsets, they'll figure out glasses eventually where as meet as like no, we are going to have glasses out in a few years and apple's find they're always late to this like we all know that. So they'll come in late like they usually do. I don't know if it'll be as late as they were with the vision pro, but they're going to be late. That's fine. But yeah, I think they're betting on uh, productivity and being at home and coding these things with the vision problem matters like, no, we want you to look matters goal is to use your phone less because they hate being under apple and google stone where as apple is like, let's just extend what we do and I think there is the big strategic difference yeah I will .

say that I have A A friend like from the bricklin years who in the pandemic became one of those people who like doesn't live anywhere like SHE just lives on me.

I know .

one of those folks yeah she's great but SHE does not working um um and he was the first Normal person adopter of the meta glasses with the ribs, with all of answer pictures are a beach taking events now you can to see like, oh, this thing worked like the thing work IT looks like she's wearing waiting all the pictures but there is the metic glasses and like IT work is it's like so much there's no chance that any of these people vision rose as they like neumatic ally travel the world or the quest three but there's a hundred percent chance that hey, you're camera is now in your sunglasses you're looking at cool stuffing and share instagram is a loop that my close I was at a .

very fancy tech conference where i'm not even allowed to say the name earlier this week. But there was a lot of tech eos and there were several of them wearing the ray bands like walking around ceos of companies that they would be very funny for me to to say who they were wearing the ray bands and you nice to record anything here, but like they're wearing them and it's like, oh like, yeah, this is like catching on. It's catching on with tech people, uh, powerful people. It's catching on with Normal people, which is like that is a circle that that has not been able to draw in its entirety of existence as a hardware player.

How good to James .

grass.

I'm telling, I think V R is interesting. There are stuff in the other supernatural that keep promoting is a head. And there is super was just commissioned and study where they claim that waving bats in VR .

s this strenuous is running .

IT feels like IT sure, like, sure whatever to me. And you can create the fancy palette. Beat savor is the same as as as like as a swift for run, like more priority.

But that's the only thing I had that sticky right. And apple isn't anything that sticky yet, except the monitoring will see. I just think apple moving away the compromise of the vision pro was they built to the airheads with all this pastor in the ice and stuff to make IT closer to A R.

And if what you're going to do is drop the eyes and go head more towards VR, that feels like a turn that is notable because the real platform you want to see, the real platform shift, he's always been everybody knows this ten cook is talked about that is being the big platform shift. And to go to, we just made the best for your headset. We've been on way. This is control does show.

I think that ever happened.

I don't have tears to hold me in.

And so let's go on here. We got to take a break with right back more than your chest .

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not into IT dot. come. We're back this time. We got to talk AI. This just take two minutes.

There's nothing go not .

actually quite a lot going on AI. And a lot of is just as well as ever confounding decisions by air companies. Let's start with confounding branding decision. There's a new company it's called safe super antillean c as as I uh the good name uh this is elia six ever who if you were call was the city of open an eye who participate in a coup against and then .

changed his mind there's some .

safe super intelligence right there or not. You have belief in that decision. Then they couldn't hear out how to bring back to the company and now he's not to starting.

And now what is going on here? Yeah, I mean, ellia not just the cco, the cofounder and really the one who is driving the research agenda at open eye IT was his decision to lean into the transformer, the t and ChatGPT. So um I think i've heard one of largest individual shareholders like incredibly influential here, someone that A I researchers looked to is like a demigod, right? And he has been totally quiet.

There's been this meme of like where's for the last of six state months really since the november q attempt. And yeah he's back um with a company that they will not describe anything about except that they are going to invent super safe, whatever the hell that means. Um his co founder is dano girls who used to run A I apple.

Just interesting and is now I would consider uh one of, if not the most plugged in venture capital and A I has been raising a tone of money and deployed and to startups um and they are putting the call for people to join um and i'm sure we will be rating illiac former or get OpenAI in very due time. Um and the kissing here ellia saying we are going to be free from I for I forget the exact wording but we are going be free from the product and management day to day uh and only focus on the long term aligned agi research and we will not release anything until we hit agi. So it's this is a this is a pure research lab which is what ellia has been known for entire career.

I'm going to read this yeah read because anybody who has ever worked anywhere is what I think have the same reaction to this paragraph. H our singular focus means no distraction by management, overhead or product cycles, and our business model means safety, security and progress are all insulated from short term commercial pressures. I like what well that the .

business model is. We just raised an unguided amount of money and we're going to keep raising on godly amount money.

But that means you don't have a business, right? Yeah like that's how you get to do these things is like you don't have you don't the pressure of a business?

yes. Isn't that just all a really pointed jb at same milton?

But but yes.

right. Like I figured that was more than than actually like in this case, I was assuming that he was going less like i'm here to make money because he's made IT very clear he doesn't care about money and more like i'm here to like, say, I don't like what I am all mended and so I want to make a company.

Where were I watched max in two of her six year old friends from kindergarten try to play them and aid stand, and they are distracted by management overhead and product cycles in their business model means they often compromise and safety security in progress.

Like there's just like no way you can put any group of people together and not have manager and IT is not possible, especially if you trying to hire the most highly paid sought after talent that exists in today. That's what it's like. I don't I read this programme like this doesn't you can do this.

The v keep the VC. Matthew is simple. We will give you whatever you want. And when you invent agi will change everything. IT will be the new fire and will figure IT out that I guarantee that the extent of the diligence going to ask.

like where where is the money coming from to recruit all of these very highly page they want .

to say where they have raise money from so if you know um let me know but if you will think to this, I want to find out Daniel is serve the all super wealthy and they will have no trouble raising whatever they want because when you go found IT open I um you can raise whatever you want.

In particular participated in the notable management overhead of doing a huge cool in the CEO yes, a failed coup. Yeah it's like your track record of not having management overhead d is very bad.

Also, like a question I have is what is safe A G I. I keep hearing this and it's intelligence is not a our super intelligence, which is actually now the new word for what comes after. He apparently is the thing I keep ring um and so we keep inventing new terms because they realized like the terms they had no one understands or they don't actually even understand what they are.

Um what is safe, aja, what does this mean? Like elia's whole thing at OpenAI was alignment right he set up this alignment group that was going to get twenty percent of open a eyes compute budget. Apparently they never did that. Had a lot of infighting and I think you know helped him try to kick sam out. Um but I always hear this and i'm like a ginning for who and under what values are realigning they don't seem that an answer and that's been .

like a consistent problem with A I right is is that they're always like that. This is gna be for everyone but we only trained IT with these certain data sets. We only trained IT using like the preestablished knowledge of the certain people creating IT. So it's actually fairly insulted and doesn't work for everyone and their enormous edge cases every time we deploy IT.

And you know, as new line I uncovered when we were reporting on the coup attempt like this gets kind of uh, portraying the media as this acceleration vers deceleration, almost like religious, uh, faction war that's happening. And I do think there's part of that. I do think alia is almost like religious and is like forever here.

But a lot of this is just like boring company stuff, business stuff. It's like you wanted budget, you didn't get IT. You ve got layered therefore you don't want to work thirteen more uh OpenAI just hired a CPO used to reproduction instagram and a CFO who was the CEO of next door, a public company.

It's very clear where OpenAI is going. They're gona IPO. They want to build a massive business. They're going to get rid of being a nonprofit. It's very clear.

And this week made some noises, but not on profit, right?

And so if that's the direction they're going, you're alia like you just want to do research, right? And that's where a lot of these researchers still are. They just want to do cutting edge frontier model development. And this is him saying, come here, we'll do IT and uh, who should also note this is now the third off shoot of OpenAI that was has been created to create safer A I uh, from OpenAI whose mission is also to create safe AI.

It's not a great look.

yeah. So you had anthropic I I would actually put X A I in this camp alone was the cofounder of OpenAI. Now you have S S I, which is also I feel like it's a medical term or something when .

yeah um I got this once and I was you take .

a little forward as fine see your example excise yeah look I just it's great that already thinks they can accomplish these things. I actually think it's unclear at all whether transformers and allies can ever do the things that people want them to do. And in fact, over time, IT has been more and more clear that perhaps they cannot. yes. So what i'm dying to know is if sa or any of the other company think they can build A G I, if they have another idea? Yes, because if the only idea is we're going to make a slightly Better and I actually not you're not going to make you not worried about whether they will be safe because is not only .

super intelligent, i'm just ware people trying to build an like, these people are nerds.

What what? No.

but they watch the movies, they play the games. Like this man is setting out to be the the audio clips you hear when you're walking through the ruins a thousand years later in a video game of the guiding. Like, I don't know what's happening.

Where is my AI going killing the world? Like that's what he's setting himself up for if he was actually successful in his grade ambitions. And i'm just like why?

Because the industry takes that, we they have invented a new form of intelligence, and that hasn't happened before. And so it's I think the natural progression of this is that it's all smarter than us. Some replaces us and IT seems inevitable to the people building the stuff.

What we see is like chat. P T can't get a math equation, right? right? That's like what we see, what they're saying. We gotta keep in mind, like the gate, this stuff, like G, P T four was an existence like over a year before OpenAI actually deployed in the world.

So there's seeing things were not i'm not going to like give them too much of the credit there, but I do think there's uh, you know, Young lecon is the chief A A I researcher. Meta has been saying what you just said in you, like that l limbs are not the path tag. I so his group is actually working on what comes after the transformer, what what is the architecture we need um because these are parents, right? These elements are are fancy prediction engines, right? And you you don't really unlock intelligence that way.

Yeah no. I mean, yesterday I signed our futures team to a language is not intelligence like I feel like we just need to say some very explicit declarative senses that are true like dogs are very intelligent, cannot generate a powerpoint way like you know I mean, like we're getting confused about what intelligence is at a very high level. I have been lately thinking a lot about the the Steve job side of technology and liberal arts.

You like you guys forgot about this whole street, this whole street missing from this conversation, I know. And there's just a piece of this puzzle word you can bet on this stuff to get Better at an infinite rate. But like most curves, level off.

And IT is unclear to me what actually makes things intellect. That said, what you are. Good luck.

Good luck building your company with your management overhead. D come on, decoder, if you pull that off. Boy, do I have a podcast for you.

I spent an hour talking my manager and had every week with people. But like you turns out IT always like three, six year old girls have management overhead. I promise you.

Maybe more than any company in america. Uh, speaking of confounding decisions by AI companies, perplexity started out so hot. Man, they were the ones right.

You can pick any model. You can ask these questions Better searching google and IT. Turns out, boy, have they been awful ful shady along the way.

What is going on here? Well, yes. So perplexity, for those who don't know, is trying to unseat google with an A I search engine. It's actually good product most of the time. I would say that I like their AI answers more than googles on average and now we kind of know wise because they're ceiling a butch content and yes, so wired did some good reporting um and found out that they were going around their crawling blocker uh i've heard rumors that perplexities been doing this aren't even grander scale with even much larger corpus of data um and this is the this is the OpenAI playbook on steroid a little bit which is just run fast and beg for forgiveness and um that's what they're doing they're basically going around people who have said, no, you are not allowed to summarize this and doing .

IT anyway and the way they're doing IT is both shadie and hilarious. So they published some IP ranges of their crawlers, and they publish the name of their cruller. So, poor robot, start.

T, X, T, A text file that should not bear the way of all in special property on the internet, but which currently does. You can set IT to disable these callers. You can set IT to disable GPT bot, which is open the eyes.

There is a google bot plus, I think there's google bot, which is a regular search index, and there is the other one, which is google eye cruller. I feel like guys need to disclose here. We used to disclose GPT bot, a vox media, and then our company is signed a deal and now we don't.

There's discovery and you could you could just low complexity. And on top of that, they did the staying. We're like your I P rangers. If you don't trust robots, discover these IP s and then what wired found and then the focus mac stories are a great in the apple site.

Um they found that their content was showing up anyway in complexity and in the investigations basically reveal dip ranges were fake and the coroner was fake and they were setting up headless windows ten machines to breast web. Yes, like you know, those pictures are like the streaming fraud farms, hot dogs or swiping android phones. There is a VC money.

I love me just swipe .

in away on a windows ten, brother.

Er, just imagine if those windows machines that recall.

I just like crazy in the sea from max is talk a lot of shit about google. Like now why are these results so bad? And like google, for Better or worse, is trying to play by the rules, are still pissing already off that they are attempting to play by the rules. The company.

I mean, google is under concentration es. They're a massively regulated mega p tech company so they can do this kind .

of stuff ah and here's to start up being like what if .

you would just been doing about and to be clear.

and making the comparison you call the open and playbook, this was the google playbook two thousand years ago, right? Google allowed all the victims content to be an youtube google index, every book in the world of that permission. Google did image search, which you got suit over, and IT one of those otes because those products were new, so they would show up in court.

But I judge youtube, and the judge, like youtube, sick in via com, would be like our marketing staffers are using this anyway because it's sick. Google misstate so useful it's can walk in. Nothing like this ever existed before.

It's concoction and reasoning to allow google to take all the suffer free. Because the theory is you'll go buy the image from getta once you founded on good. It's unclear what that theory really came out to me.

I never did that.

Yeah is not like I opened to getting a library the next day. I get a amp next day. Um but that those are the theories back then google books that might have work, right? You can search all the box.

Maybe you actually buy the book in the end, did IT work out totally what I I don't know, but those are the theories back then, because the products are so new, the experiences are so new. Perplexity is just like, yeah, we still a bunch of stuff. And what we delivered as an incremental improvement on google search. And I just I don't think that's going to win this time.

Maybe I I am shocked at how little of the people inside these AI companies in their investors, again, I was just at a very fancy tech conference with a lot of these people, how little they actually care about this problem. How IT is really just like this is a this is a bunch of speed bumps s that will go over to getting where we're going to go. Um and maybe it's because of the the fact that google is google and they did all this twenty years ago and they're trillion multi trillion of our company.

I think I think it's Better .

yeah and I think expect .

what now I said about liberal arts education. They just don't have any like historical context. So like it's going .

to work and take any history classes.

I don't know about google. This is fine.

Now these are systems people yeah they don't think in terms of um these the values that we get mad about when it's like, hey, I made a thing, uh I charge people for IT and you took IT that's not okay um with with intellectual property, with writing and stuff like that for some reason it's just not a thing that a lot of tech people that I know IT doesn't register for them. Uh I don't know why.

right because they didn't take liberal arts there there like what is an english class?

I want to spend more. I don't. I don't have a view of this. I haven't locked this in to my brain yet. So people have thoughts, send them to me because I I need to help.

But I can feel this weird shift that I ve been calling the copyright of poco pse, because some people care about IT a lot now, more than ever before. But this is mine. And you took IT between influences on social media platforms, ragged out of control.

Now, right? I'm a tailor shift fan in those three notes of a song sound like three notes in Olivia ro fan. We have to do fan them all now until the music industry doors out.

Writing credits is a real thing that happens at the crazier level, this is a real thing that happens. And that is copyright maximum ism by really Young people. And then over here you have nobody owns anything into something that I should get up afraid.

And those things are just intention and way that IT feels unresolved and on potentially unresolvable. But you can you can have a bunch of youtube version, like I made this youtube video first. And anybody who even makes the video that looks like IT is stealing for me right next to everything in the end actually be free.

Maybe that maybe there's not a lot of love for media companies, as we all know, and the fact that it's scraping wired or the virtually whatever is like what they're fine. But when it's like your favorite influencer, your favorite creator and they're on their feet going, hey, like this model, don't use IT because they trained on my stuff. I really think you're right. I think people feel a lot more visually about that than they do all like companies. I think it's one IT becomes .

the individual again. What google was up against, what the APP tra was up against was the big bad, right? Like the only face of the anti extra movement was a large lick from metallic, did not work for him, but really, the face was like hollywood in the music industry.

And no one ever feels any sympathy towards you, the music and the like. All I would give me, like, you wouldn't still a cigar. Like whenever they .

would say I wouldn't ouldn't t downadup car so holy way.

we can put up the banners so he wouldn't download a car. And that runs like through you. I'm super going to get a movie. If I put down when a car, I would be sick. I had this three d printer for years, not making cars um but they were the big bats.

Influencers are like people, like influence, like people you know what I mean, influencers are actual people that you repair social relationships with and like there's something very emotional is not resolved and it's going to come to head know. The next story we have on our list here is a bunch of social networks that want to introduce A I in various ways. I like you played with one.

And before you get to that, I just want to call out tiktok is now letting people make A I avataras of creators yeah right and saying this is your add creative and this is going to come for every social platform yeah that's right. Like in a massive way. Like if you are crazy, you feel the burnout and you can make fifty more at heads during your brand deal using you, you might do IT.

Yeah, no, this is happening. So yeah, I wrote about this new APP, which was, no, I get a lot of task flights to try things. And this is the first test flight i've got in a while that made me feel something very strongly where I was like oh when I opened IT um and it's IT is like instagram IT meets character AI we're basically it's a bunch of eyes in a feet commenting and posting together and there's humans but they need to be there and like it's actually in some cases not most but in some cases hard to tell who is human and who is not um and they just raise a bunch of money it's an x nap x nap people um and the reason I wrote about IT is because that is about to do the exact same thing sucker bird told me.

So uh, last september and I think later this year, we're going to see them start to roll this out where basically anyone can create their own a eyes, send them into instagram, send them into facebook. Um the same thing with businesses and the idea is that if you're an influencer and you feel overwhelmed by your dms, maybe an A I handles that for you or maybe A I actually posts on your behalf. I cover is super excited about this.

I know because he talked to me about IT. Um it's very freaky to imagine what this actually does to our social networks. It's coming way faster than .

we think so well, it's just because in south korea, we've been doing a little bit of something like this, right with k pop stars where you can engage with k pop stars on sites owned by the cap pop stars companies. And it's not always that sometimes it's them. It's not always that usually it's a blood.

It's a person pretending to be them. And so like that, that para social, how do we automate that para social has been happening in career for a long time. But I think the difference series that was gated to, okay, you have to go download this APP for this publisher and use IT. Where is this would be on meta instagram?

This would be like you open instagram. It's like, oh, is that account I they may have three arms, okay maybe then yeah well, that's coming.

So there's the other part, which is you send asian out on your behalf is there are someone really like someone wants to pay money to subscribe. And one of the things I offer is like dms with me yeah and in my my agent will just like do that ah and I want to IT and that's infinitely tly scalable, which if you are an individual career and all these platforms ms are organza towards starring down collectives in enhancing individual craters you know, creator, your ability of scale is limited by your emotional capacity to do this in your minutes in the day yeah and so of course you're onna.

Let the robot talk to your fans like IT is the biggest new brain in history, the world of course, if you're going to say, okay, you want your brand x wants to an integration with me, but they want to fifty different versions as creative. I will make one and not the A I did fake me in to five more. That is already happening like a tiktok is enabling the future like it's happening now. Yeah well, alex, to your .

question about why, like I was talking to you, train the CEO butterflies, this new APP about this as the why because I showed to my wife and he was like just like I was an immediate just .

like like um i'm like .

I I think you're going to meet a lot of people like that who are like why does this need to exist? Like why do we need like fill our time with just empty AI social media and his point was like, yes, IT feels kind of broken right now. And I wrote about this.

IT feels like when the host and west world break a little bit, it's like not there. But he was like, you know, I got an attack by, like, making friends on forms, talking to people that I never met. I only knew their user name.

He's like we will get the models quickly to that quality. Um and as someone who also came up and gotten attack in a similar way, like through like making friends on forums like. What happens when, like, I never met these people, right? I don't know a lot of their names ever.

So if they were A, I would would have made a difference. I mean, we had a whole like philosophical conversation about this, but he was like, you don't actually want to talk to people. There's traits of being human that you like.

And A I will quickly copy all those traits. And I like mind blown and also, no, no, thank you. But is that inevitable? That's a question.

IT gores, like in the eighties and nineties there were the nine hundred numbers, and you could like call like the crypt keeper was one like cory haim and stuff like a and cohan was not answering the phone to talk to a little twelve year old girl who had a crash on him, right? Like that was a voice pretty need to be, have. And quickly we .

just lost something very important about what you spend your money on when .

you were IT was not me, because if I had called the nine hundred number, I would have not had a good time.

My dad, super Connie, is like, you're never using the phone again.

But that was like part of why I made was one of is the cost of nine hundred numbers. But that was the other part of IT. Where is like nine hundred numbers were a little sketchy as a kid. You weren't really supposed to call them and I was because like, yeah as much of like not con artist, but basically licensed con artists pretending to be other people. But you hear .

this from two people all the time. You like this is just the same as the other small problem that we had the best.

But now you're doing IT scale.

Now you ale is a small made A I think maybe there's something different here. This thing, by the way, that you just mentioned, it's come up several times now IT is this unshakable belief that these models are going to get Better, just like on the rate of like more saw, and I don't that matter, doesn't exist like there is a more law of the models yet. We only really experienced three point five to four in the public. I and I understand that they all got soft looking at the weekends and sure, but someone's got got to give me the number, like give me the rate of change before I believe that this model will be able simulate whatever happened to me uniforms when I was, you know like you want to get a minute asylum when they raised me. It's like I don't think so well.

So yeah.

there's no more lawyers.

I mean, there's no more law. They're scaling law. And the ideas that as you continue to put more debt data in computer to these models, they get exponentially Better. That continues to hold true if you compare the output the creative output of like GPT two or G P three, GPT three to four, it's a massive difference. But there are also but .

you say but that line is not lining AR.

That's what i'm saying. Everyone who works and I believe that IT is stolen here.

Yeah but it's not because we've just seen a multiple stories about how they're all desperate for data to the point they're like, what if we make A I machines to just create more content for us that can go wrong?

Oh, the thing i'm hearing is going to be some themes data for training. So literally, you you're going to have the air get good enough that they start talking in the a train on the A S. That's where we're going.

Are we going to to here? And I can see here and just say, make real friends, go to the forms while you can alright get to get in there while to get in good, get past the user name, get their actual name is they may be an a idea request drivers license immediately. Where are you going to make all hear right back with the lighting, right?

Hey, it's leam from decoder with we spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listened to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month.

I'm decoder with light presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get. Your podcast support for the verge cast comes from the home deep boo, hey, it's almost the holidays. And whether you're planning to travel or host, it's always good to have that extra layer of safety, security to help ease your mind. And now with help from the hung deepo, you can stay connected and protected with the convenience of smart home security products.

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Now is the platform that puts AI to work for people across your business, removing friction and lustration free employees, super charging productivity for developers, providing intelligent tools for your service agent to make customers happier, all built into a single platform you can use right now. And that's why the world works with service now is a service now. Outcome flash A I for people to learn more.

back. So lighting around I will see the first segment, the show was much more like lighting around. And this is just going to be different.

It's fine. This lighting round remains unsponsored. But many options exist for you, the potential advertiser. But you can do A I S, yeah, you have to let me do.

You do AI ads if they're trained on realized voice.

What's the most dangerous advertising you can buy? It's letting me do the ads, right? Cranes are sorry with you.

Uh, in video is super rich.

Can I say this? The story right is in videos overtook microsoft and apple. The company micon an apple going back and forth on market cap for a while. In video is not beginning with them. The crazy thing about this whole story, to me is one in video has been around for millions years.

A video game fans exist right up like people put in video cards on their pcs all over the place that has been on this run for a long time. right? Yes, like this is years now in video, stocks are accounting in the way, seen, covered, IT, the headline and scene in was this company whose named you can't pronounce this is not the world's for this company like, yeah what actually .

pretty easier to pronounce .

I feel like, yeah, it's one it's not that hard.

easier than SSID an ender .

and a writer together and they were like, I don't know what this is we got this is just like.

some guy I don't understand, run a tech publication. We like swim the water, but like they've been head here for at least two years yeah.

we had to hear about them like crypt to currency, right in video. Had this big all these big stock jump is because crypto o currency.

because everybody was buying the GPS, because that was the best way to.

oh my god, this wasn't completely out of my brain, just think about. And so that was happening in to in video and so I was like, study taking up and I was like, a boy, AMD and intel ler might be able to beat IT. And then IT was like, we're going to take all the crypto stuff out of our r GPU. And then everybody was like, hey, ice here.

Yeah yeah. And and others have been minds. The effect of this, the effect of this inside and video is fascinating. I ve heard, and there's been some reporting, and I want to keep doing more reporting out. So if you have stories, if you're listening to this and you've gotten fabulous ly wealthy at in video, hit me up, we can talk off the record.

They have a retirement problem inside and video, there is a post I saw where IT said, if you joined as a midlevel software engineer five years ago and your total comp was seven hundred thousand, which is a lot right, but intact, that's actually pretty middle. The road for a good engineer, your compensation you early now is ten and million dollars. So rules um they actually have people just retiring like in mass.

And so like the the question for NVIDIA is like how what do you do to motivate people when people i've gotten so fabulously wealthy so fast and it's obvious there's going to be a correction, it's obvious. And video is not going to say that which is the most valuable company in the world, right? So how does that collapse happen? Is that a slow collapse? Is that a fast one? And what happens to the employee base is fascinating.

When you get rid of management overhead in product cycles, there you go obvious .

what you do emerge with ssi. It's gonna last a while, right? Because ah they're the only ones making the really good A I processors for .

server levels.

They like goole, google, google thermae primary, right.

Yeah yeah ARM A A M D I would say A M D as like an arms dealer is probably the biggest one. Google doesn't sell tps really as much. But yeah.

videos got a big head start. This is one of the things that like his kept until propped up for years was because until had this huge head start in the server space, ninety nine percent of of the server space. So you know they can bomb a couple of years um against cal com and be fine because they got the servers and I think in video is kind of feels like not quite as cusha position but similarly kushi.

Yeah I mean they have kota like what they have is a software layer that makes their GPS more valuable. Yeah, which amy is up. But if you run azure, I think we had all these people to show all, talk them all. If you run azure or A W S rule, hot, whatever, you do not want to be beholden to kuda in video, you, you, you want all kinds of things to happen.

That's why apple video don't look at each other anymore.

IT is very funny, that apple hay IT is used to be just like a little funny, because apple would insist that bad graphics cards were good graphics cards. 对于。 Just funny like in its way now it's deeply funny because all that opening integration is happening in one one .

want to talk about, doesn't want to pay for. And that's I think market forces will ensure video does not stay the top GPU supplier in the world because they are too expensive. And no one wants johnsson being the the king of GPS, right? Everyone wants to have options.

And so in videos, chAllenge to justify this valuation and to keep growing is to build lock in. And IT is like IT would make a lot of sense for them to start competing directly with google cloud and azure to become a one stop shop because otherwise people will not ship them. That was going to happen .

and make time for years with them there. But like, like on the gaming side, they got really, really good at the lock and they got really good like you can't use these AMD processors because we went out to every single game development, make sure they were using our tools. So you had to use art like we get the Better stuff. So there, it's gona be really interesting over the next couple of years as as they just like, absolutely do IT out with some of these other companies. And I think a lot of people are going to be surprised how vicious they get.

Oh yeah, but it's like one step down from that right now. Yeah, teeth are saying these things are free, like apples are paying for IT. If there's no business model one step down from we paid all of the money in the world for each one hundred is the Price of the each one hundred will just like if the demand is there, right because everything is gone to monopolize something you what IT is is remains to be seen.

But that's what that's why the Prices I will see, right i'm going to go next as I want heat to end building around um which continued to track tech litigation. The united states to are in justice a suit doby for deceiving subscription pricing and creative and IT actually is deceiving. IT is deceiving in one specific like, which is when you sign up for a creative cloud, you can pick annually, build annually, build monthly or monthly annually, build monthly is default choice.

So that means you pay for a year, but they charge you per month and you've signed a one year contract. And if you d try to cancel early, they just charge the rest of the year, or you can sign up for monthly where can just cancel off every month because it's fault, because it's the cheapest. Uh, people pick IT and they think it's a monthly recipes.

There's no fine print. IT doesn't actually disclose this will happen. They try to cancel to get stuck with the rest of bill.

This is bad. This is straight ford bad for a company with basically an openly market chair with these tools. IT is also just beyond the pit.

Like, this is pittle shit. What are you doing? Like people are going to buy a photoshop.

then like there's a local gym. Move on there.

I really think I think when I say a lot with adobe, I I basically insisted the verge over cover adobe over the past few years because there are such a central player and everything is going on like influencer media depends on the existence of adobe that's we're premier runs youtube like youtube never built creative tools, which is one of the weirdest things about youtube.

They had that one APP on the phone once, but theyve never built the video editor. The successive tiktok is, they made a video editor that's really good and made all those temples. Ts, and they made IT easy to do theyselves, youtube never did that though, like update and videos.

And people built the entire creators ecosystem on the back of premier, largely a little bit of final cut because the seven crazy max but mostly premier. Um and you, the google ever built that stuff. So you should like, look at this industry and I do is the center. Everything there are the center.

All these are uh all these AI creativity battles, right? Because they they have a doby stock and people with photoshop and general l and the more you cover a dobe, more you realize massive difference in how the company percent edit often what IT does and the tools that makes and how everyone else perceives a dobe inning gap. H, i've said this before.

We had shunted new yan on decoder. He never talks. Everyone release.

There's something cbc african reports and ever gets wider ranging area. I was so excited for you and never talks. They asked all the questions.

Some of the questions were pretty hush. The audience was mated me just for paying attention to adobe. They're like, why would you platform adobe? Which is an incredible question because it's a dobe.

I don't think i've seen a company burn that this much goodwill ever right then on top that they had their terms of service debacle where we've covered terms of service changes like this so many times, like I could barely even pay attention to IT where they change their terms of service to let them do content moderation on their cloud services. So if you have if you run a cloud service, people will put bad things on your cloud service. That is just is true.

Effective nature is is like horrific shit will end up on your cloud storage system if you have a scale cloud storage system. And what you don't want to do is give a bunch of contractors, P T, S D, which is a real thing that has that we have covered by making them look through stuff and cloud services or look through reports. So we will automated systems to go through your cloud services and fine, the child abuse material, that's what you do.

So do we changes its terms till let people know if this is is in create cloud? People assume that they are going to train on A I. They freak out of adobe. And the adobe has so little girl that even as they tried to explain this, people like, we don't believe you. Instead, I live up to their terms over again and you just connect that directly to, oh, you're getting sued by the government because annual paid monthly was not clear to people and you charged in the rest of the money when they cancelled. It's just like it's crazy to me that this company is so important but does not realize that, that needs to maintain the goodwill of the the people that depend on IT.

But you don't have to win. You're monopoly. You can just be a monopoly.

But I think I I met all their executives. They're not down. Yeah it's a baffling to me.

Yeah there you know they can do what they want. They are monopoly. What are you gonna do? Go to a to vince. I yeah maybe .

yeah bit maybe if you um then not acquiring signal, I think we'll go down we're going to come back on the failed figment deal one because figure will turn in to a different company and we will see if they can go compete with a doby. But that was driven as much by some of this burn good well as anything.

And I think we're going to see the creative tools industry by for cate on that moment over the course of history because they had acquired fake by a lot of a lot of things would have been a lot, lot different. I think right last slightly around one we got in here. This is like a story in history .

okay yeah the service go standard has a fun story where teckel are increasingly paying up to twelve hundred and hour for fashion consultants because of co s like mark sacer g deciding to wear chains um and I just encourage everyone to read this story. There is a side by side photo of a guy who has gone through one of these fashion consultants. I would argue he looked Better before.

I'm not to i'm not going to judge like whatever or at least the same. It's just like, as my grandfather would say, you know, money doesn't buy sense and like reading this like like tech is like just be who you are. You don't need to like try to cool and you don't need to pay twelve hundred and hour to try to look cool like the internet is there like you can just reset my side .

photo is brutal. It's bruit brutal because he looks Better or worse, he looks the same again. The and it's both of them are going to .

just baggy outfits yeah and then like .

it's perfect .

because at the end, like the story, they are like interviewing a founder who's done this and then it's like i'm making an A I APP that will do this four people for twenty hours a night. The circle just complete at .

some it's amazing. You know amazon try to do that what they are weird camera, yeah, super didn't work. yeah. I I think you paying someone this much money to take you to blame the else you can do Better.

That's what i'm saying. Like it's I don't .

think he went to blooming dales.

Yeah.

this is he's in, he's in the dressing or mt. bloomy.

Oh my gosh, you get out. Leave the store, sir. No, that's a bad look. If that's what you pull in out of looming deals, that's like you .

give them a dillard. We here before we before you do sorry .

for your face shop.

you can look cool in the matter shop. I love a dealer.

Everyone is constantly asked .

me where the jackets come from and all of them were pandemic purchases on a home deep. Or walmart tell you that's like that. I had money to spend. There are only two stores spend IT. You can look called the .

water showers.

just know who you are that quote, just know who you are, just beat that person that's and also make an agent of yourself and have IT float with other people on instagram for money.

That's the future. The more gold chains, more goal change.

right? We will be back on tuesday with more of the windows ARM laptop benchmark scores. That's a big deal.

I'm excited for those reasons. Come out in the meet all kinds of up. It's a summer. It's a wild time in tech, and then we're going to get rid of all of our managment, overhead and proxy. Yclad just pure and can't raise bbi.

Thanks to he for .

feeling in good luck to David doing whatever he's doing. That's IT that's request .

for room .

and that's IT for the verge cat this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one.

The verge cast is the production of the verge and box media podcast network. Our show is produced by Andrew marino and leon James. That's IT we'll seen next week.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A, A, I gives you the tools to power your business, ford, with the security and speed of the world's most experienced club. Hey, it's sine from decoder with new ipad op. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in A I space, why are so many big players and t not to acquire and instead license can hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the life Better presented by strike. You can listen to the coder wherever .

you get your pocket.