The Vergecast builds a tech company
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Welcome the verge cast the flagship podcast of corporate and fighting i'm a friend, David pierce, and I am sitting on my back patio getting the grow ready because IT is july fourth week, and that's just what you do. This is amErica is july forth is also my birthday on july forth. And so we sit outside and we grow even though it's very hot and there's mosquitoes everywhere.

And would I rather be inside in the air conditioning looking at my television? Yes, but it's, should I forth? So we're girl and stuff. Anyway, we have an awesome epsom coming up for you today. We are going to basically start a tech company together.

Me, I tell Alice, cream and I are going to, as a group of CEO, which couldn't possibly go poorly, figure out how we would build the tech company out of the tech industry as IT exists. Now, IT sounds a little complicated, but i'll explain the rules when we get into IT. IT all makes sense.

But basically, I wanted to see if you were to start from scratch and say, okay, what are the best products in tech? What can I take? What can I put together? What could we build that would be cool, different, and that we could make awesome.

How would we do that? We had a lot of fun putting this together and figured this would be a fun time to do IT. It's july. The news is a little bit slow, were about to get into crazy gadgets, es, and again, but IT felt like a fun way to take a different kind of look at the tech industry. I should also say some credit for this whole concept goes to a podcast, a really late, called the big picture, really good show that movies.

And they did one recently, where the two of them started their own studios together, and they kind of did a draft and picked actors and writers. IT was a very fun episode. And so I just kind of stole that concept and we're going to take a turn IT and do something similar on the shelter day.

So we're going to short to tech company. I'm very curious what you think as you listen to IT, if you think we made bad decisions, if you think we make good decisions, if you think were monsters, I want to hear everything. Call the hotline, eight, six, six, first one one, email us.

Verge casted vertot com. Tell us how you'd start a tech company. And maybe between us, we're going to take over the tech chemistry.

It's going to be awesome. Anyway, all of that is coming up in just a second. But first I just noticed that I turned the girl on without actually turning the propylon.

So this is how good I am at grey. I'm going to go fix that problem. This is the verge cast. We will be right back.

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Alright, we're back. Let's go. me. I tell. Hello, hello, Alice grants. Hello.

hello. I'm excited. Be A C, E, O today, right?

Thank you both for coming to maybe the most convoluted in same game. I have a first, but i'm very excited about this. So the structure of this is basically as follows. We the the three hosts are now coc OS of attack company because I would take history ally speaking companies with just tend to be the most successful.

Yes, it's like black very a bit, a little bit more.

You know what, if you added one more person who had some weird ideas and wanted to own a hockey team, you could be great. And we are going to build our own company out of parts of other companies is essentially how this is going to work. So I it's either ten or eleven categories here that we as as a tech company is are going to enter by taking that product from another company.

There are several rules. Again, this is very convoluted, yes, but it's going to work. It's gna be fine once we get into everything we take from the tech company.

We get as IT exists right now, whatever it's selling, whoever IT is that makes IT all the factory deals, all the marketing of everything, we can change IT as we like. But we get we don't get the idea of IT. We get the thing as IT is right now, we only care about things up to twenty thirty after that who not gna live on mars. So we're we're playing like a six year long game here. And Frankly, if we is the transverse of CEO last until twenty thirty, we would I be successful?

I'm banking out really fast. Yes, soon as we ipa, i'm gone.

I was resting, investing from like dave one here. It's going to be great. We can spend as much money as we want, but making money is not the point. We're actually not gonna talk about money at all on this show. We don't want to go out of business, but our main goal is just to build the greatest tech company in the history of the universe like that. That is what we're after here because this is like if we started talking about the money inside of things that just get weird and complicated in ways that we don't have .

time for that we're onna tell our investors where is just going to be like, look, guys, we talk about money this is going to get we're complicated yeah you just relax.

We're just about to make an agi.

Don't worry about IT yeah like for twenty years, jeff basis was like I can make money whenever I feel like IT. For now, i'm just gona like make cool stuff like that. The vide that our tech company and I would say the two most important things as we pick here are we can only take one product from each company.

So once once we have used something from apple, we cannot use anything else from apple or samsung or google or whoever has one product per company, uh, which I think is going to be very complicated, that products also cannot be the whole company. So if if there is a company that makes a single product with its name, uh, like I originally had I gma in one of our categories is is like a thing we might want to take. But if you take F I G ma from F I G ma, there is no fig ma anymore.

so that doesn't count. What about fyne ym? No.

yes, sure that actually i'll give you that another one I had is like, oh, here's a good example. Like we can't take sales force from sales force, but we could take slack from salesforce.

I see. So if apple had a product called apple, you would just feel like.

no, that accounted for, you know, ninety eight percent of his revenue. yeah. So sure.

I guess under that rule, we can take a all I fig jam back to the list. And most importantly, this is not competitive. We are three CEO. We are doing this together. And so we have to agree on everything that we're going to take, which I assume means this is going to take .

twelve hours there. Such thing as a home jury in the situation because .

there are three of us. And if IT comes to IT, we will vote and to the one will win. This is why we have three cees. This is it's a perfect I can't believe .

no one has thought of this. why? Why are people doing one and two?

The number CEO solves your problems. yes. okay. Here are the categories. We're going to do smart phones, tablets and pcs, then we're going to take a brick. We're going to do wear arables headphones, APP platforms, which is not specific apps, but think of like APP businesses like microsoft office is one of the options in that category.

And then we're going to do what I have called boring B2B mon ey for set s, which is the thing that makes to do all the money that nobody ever wants to talk about. Then we're going to take another break, and then we're going to do messaging, streaming service, wildcard gadgets and wildcard everything else. And then we're going to get that to here and we're going to go be so good.

I'm so excited to be rich. All right.

Category number one is smart funds. This to me, is maybe the easiest, but also maybe the most difficult one to do first, which is why I wanted to do IT first.

See, I also agree with you because I think we're probably along the same lines for what the phone, well.

the only thing makes a different is, David, tell something to work about money.

Oh, interesting. We don't worry about money.

What if you give one weight about money? You take the iphone yes, right? Because now you funded whatever other boot noggs you want to get on like yeah then we can pick the cobo for tablets and it's fine.

That's what we should do exactly. You you're right on the same way.

but if you don't care about money, then you might have a substantive discussion about what phone you want.

Well, so okay, let me let me frame this lately differently. We don't care. We are not spending our time thinking about quarterly earnings and shareholder value, but we do want to win writing like big picture, win.

They were taking the iphone, crushed you.

We're taking the iphone. We win.

I think that's right. I think the only reason for me that the iphone is chAllenging is that there are a lot of categories here in which apple is also very good, and someone which IT has a lot less competition.

Oh, no, no, I can. Every other category, I I can defeat everyone else with the power of the iphone. Like.

interesting.

Do you trust me? You just await good and i'm able to change stuff. Yeah, we're good. We nailed IT. It's fine.

Oh my god. I just as we're onna speed run building an APP tax.

it's gonna go so that you think I don't care about money. Day forty five percent. Let's go get somewhere linka started.

Listen to this and he said.

this is just like, this isn't the test .

company I would have never I never going to be allowed to make a .

company and I like no company .

is illegal in ah okay. But just for the for the sake of argument, the other nominees that I had here were samsung, which I think is probably the only other reasonable competitor here. The google pixel, if you are not feeling good about yourself, the nothing phone, which is a fun like dark course, if you want to, like, bet on doing something weird and cool in the next six years to two hundred thirty.

Interesting that, uh, wow. One plus issues. Motor a like, he gets bleak pretty fast.

real fast. Were you hoping that one of us would be like a motorola?

I was hoping one of you would fight for samsung, to be honest, just because I think it's possible to maybe wanna pick an apple product in another one because we've not ruled out every other apple product .

because i'm looking at through the rest. And like i'm like there's other really good competitors in these other places. Look like the iphone if if the phone is like the engine of the business, which IT feels like probably is true, then we want the iphone.

Alternatively, the one that I would are you for would have the pixel, because then the one thing you would change about IT would be caring. And then and then you would be good if .

the .

iphone we've got, like the people who are making the good processors on the iphone whereas pixel we've got. Not that it's sure.

but a little little caring is yeah sure. But also trying to market the phone would be, uh.

you so I mean, yeah like in terms of raw upside, the R O I I think for the pixel would be huge. Whereas the iphone I have her time imagining making the iphone more successful, but it's also very successful. I think the answer is just the iphone. I don't know that we need to talk about this much longer.

It's going to solve every other problem in this list.

So again, I would I would remind you that one of the things we are not trying to do here is build a services business or a monody wait.

We are not trying to build a man up. We want to win. So you're saying this collection of three CEO test to have some values.

Yeah, we want to, like, be cool. Our main value is like, be cool.

Okay, I want. I haven't been awful. Ly in a cool way.

Yeah yeah.

right.

Fair that we can move on. All right. So the iphone next up tablets, which is ironically a very similar set of companies, but I would say that we can pick the ipad.

So the ipad is out, which leads us with the four namies ipad so far, were the samsung g galaxy tabs. The google pixel tablet such as IT is amazon's whole kindle lineup, which I think counts as a tablet. Kobo, you could do one plus there's a lot of tablets out there.

We could argue about the microsoft surface as a tablet line, but I think I won't count out. We'll get to that minute. What do you get like whose favorite here?

I think we go with the books. And then we have the apple, the iphone team make the Operating system good.

What is that? Can can you make that choice? Can I pick the alex y, but that .

runs ipad O S? no. But if we don't take the ipad.

we don't get ipad O S.

We're going to use IOS to put put that on the bird.

Uh.

they so was a one to why this?

We can all of this to get an ipad running maco.

I have to, like, take the pixel so I can take the mac book, so I can take the same sung galaxy he can make IT remap us to get to a galaxy pad running mac O S. I have to take the pixel and then a mac book .

that I would be the way i'm going to be onest. I don't hate that try.

I feel like this part of retreat meeting will be very you. No, I with I A friends, I think you take the kindle lineup to jail up the software a little bit. People are happy.

I wanted to go books to get escape the lock in because I feel like we save some money with that acquisition.

But we can solve the luck. And remember, android is open source. So android is fair game. No matter what we do, we have .

android.

And I think so then the real question is like who who is Better at making the hardware that we can take and have a pretty solid leader. And I feel like I feel like as amazon like books sta cool stuff. But I feel like if we just steal the amazon team and really like, what if we did a good job again?

Yeah because we get panels OK.

we get panos.

Yeah, we're doing the candle.

That's right.

I feel good about that. Yeah, we're doing the candle.

We're going to make IT good.

Now it's a culture higher there. Yeah do we immediately kill the whole kindle fire line and we .

just focus on eating? No, that's good for kids. So actually I would say we take the the tablet thing we're taking is like the extended kindle.

the kindle universe we get .

yeah all of this class of capta les is accomplishing for anyone is playing disney class for your children. So we're just like the kindle fire kids is the center piece of our tablet strategy.

And then we also just make a nice e radar on the side that runs IOS.

Yeah and then I can go to a very stake capital me like, you want you want to make laws protecting kids, make a lot so you have to buy a .

kindle fire for yeah, there we go. I mean, I love how we're like making a really good, culturally important company. Then also doesn't break laws.

I'm not trying to break the laws and trying to make the laws.

Yeah, i'm trying to beat the loss.

And if you don't buy a kinder fire.

you will be arrested. Here is my question is, do we reboot the fire phone with our iphone team?

Which part I really ay? We already .

added fifty cameras .

to the phone. What if we have four more to make? IT three b and .

it's one of them is just for barcus. Yeah, amazon kindle, easy choice. Next up is pcs.

And I think the list of folks is fairly familiar here. alex. what?

okay. So the list is what we can do. Apple, but we ve got microsoft, evo, asus, aser, hp razor, dell. I think we should go in ovo because you get rid of all of the spam where that they like automatically installed. You have some really nice laptops.

really nice hardware .

and you really nice hardware, and then we make the IOS team. They are going to be work in diets, but they're going to have to .

basically like reinvent macos, like they .

figure IT out into. I fully believe in them. If we can make PC clans, we can do this too.

But we don't have the chips. I guess we do because you have the iphone. So now we just now we just put A A hindal lid on the iphone like that's a laptop yeah which is more or less the ipad. I just want to be very clear, well heard, discuss.

We're like we make ipad now, but it's also got a little .

it's little. Yeah, see, I was going to say microsoft because I want control of the .

Operating system.

That's where I go to where and I want the surface line. I now we've pulled the tablet ecosystem bigger, right? I've got like my kindles and my kindle fires and i've got the surface pro and i've got a whole range .

of products tell us about all of the really good laptops and all in ones that, that we're gonna with our microsoft that.

So again.

a lot of my strategy is just try hard and right, to be clear, so they have the surface studio. But like, what if you put a real trip in IT?

And that's just .

me in meetings, like what if circle LED this on the White board and then write, try hard and then like three exclamation points. And that's my whole surface .

strategy we can make IT all .

run risk v the power of one where is very pie for yeah my o David de a type er here it's between microsoft nova. I agree the ova makes some of the Better hardware. Here you've have .

make a compelling point about being able to have windows and making .

the one ranch I would like to throw in is that if we get dell, we just instantly have the best lineup of windows PC that exists.

But we don't have windows.

We don't have windows. Do we want windows? You know.

like for example, like I would like to walk up to the box that says, like security and right, try hard.

I will say they're under the rules of this game though. I don't we I think what we're getting is like a perpetual license to windows. I don't think we get inside like that.

Apply how the service yeah.

I don't think we get to run windows.

But so when we took the iphone, we don't get to run IOS. No, we do that .

accounts IT does.

I feels different. I can't describe you White. No, it's because it's one device to one Operating system.

This is not one of us to one Operating system. We are a partner to the Operating system, not the only venue for the Operating system. Even if for microsoft, we're not.

But where the surface team, we aren't microsoft, where verge cast incorporated, we're not taking windows from microsoft. I still think it's microsoft just because I think we're clearly building a luxury thing here. And I think getting there with lino ovo is going to be chAllenging. Like I don't I don't know how we're going to convince everybody .

that lenovo is like kick as cool again. I think we can get there with .

surface yeah .

your little code pain on there.

Get the yoga. You guys want to yoga. They do the flippy things.

I want to make time note happen for america.

okay? I am going lenovo because I think we're going to want microsoft later. I think there are other things in this list they are going to be more useful to have for microsoft. So I think we should pick an vo.

you're right, that's true.

Dying to know what you think those things are.

but will come back to you. Think of all the boring things that make you the most valuable company on planet. And that's that's what microsoft does. So well.

it's not the surface team.

Yeah, I think I we're picking we're picking the novo. Welcome to the team. The little nub, it's very so was that thing called the track point? So that's called .

the track point, track point that we just call IT and up that's we're rebranding IT immediately. Just admit IT, that's the first thing we do.

Day one. Yeah, I love this, right? So just recap. So far, we can take a quick break.

We have as verge casts incorporated, we now make the apple iphone, the amazon kindle and lenovo said the pcs. I feel like we're doing very well so far. I'm excited about this.

great. We're doing well. I we're going to take a little quick break. We're going to come back that.

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Alright, we're back for dcs incorporated. We haven't talked about our pay structure, by the way, as co CEO. But welcome back to that. It's going to be very lucrative for us because again, we're only going to be in this job for six years. So got to do IT and get out here.

Next category, I think this might be the richest and sort of most evenly competitive category of all the ones who are ready to do wearable ables. And i'm defining whereabouts liberates broadly. Anything that you wear on your body counts.

We can do things like the apple watch or the vision pro. We can do all of amazon's weird alexa web stuff. But I would say mostly, we're still pretty wide open. You have x real on here. Yeah, I do have x el on here. I'm not saying we should pick IT, saying it's a company I thought of when I said wearable I like to myself ah what do you think any any jump out to you that we should definitely get into? I have a clear favorite .

here out the gate. I'm going bold and taking meter for the rebs. Oh, okay.

no, that's a good play. I wasn't even. I was the headset. I forgot about the glasses.

yeah. okay. On that front, do we get one or the other or do we get both? Like if we if we say quest, we get all the quests in one product. But I feel like the smart glasses are a different thing.

Get your face computers away from me. You just no, no other water, three things.

You just want a smart classes. I just want the glasses. Even if we get the whole team, we're immediately killing the .

quest line and we're just going mark classes. So i'm saying the glasses are the future we're put in. We're put in our excess iphone profits under the glasses.

Oh, I mean, if the glasses is like ran na really good A I well, no, we don't have one of those. We have .

theory all in a year horizon is maybe I just want to take stamp songs.

watches and do what I mean that is that is actually interesting question that gives are we getting that smart glasses are going to be sufficiently huge by twenty? This is like worth IT for us or we just taking like a nerd gadget for the next six years.

This makes sense for us because we're like, we're cool. We're luxury. What's is luxury like a pair fair?

Okay, I have two others. I'd like to throw an oring. That is one of the things I was gona throw you. I think ora is like a sneaky, fascinating company.

And the way ahead in smart rings, smart rings are a lot of people think, including our own v song, about to be a real thing. I think especially you're bedding that this like health and fitness thing, is gonna ep growing really fast. That's a place to go.

I was sitting garment for kind of the same reasons like what if we can redesign garment's watches so that they don't look dumb, but they have all the cool of the government already has the people really like, I feel like you could make something out of garment. I also, my immediate reaction when we did this was snapped because I want the spectacles line. But I think we we go rabbit at a smart glasses, and that gets us everywhere, are going probably significantly faster.

Yeah, it's basically do we want to go watch ring or glasses totally? But if we go samsung, we do watch and ring, right?

The thing that this, I think makes very clear is you can take any of the watches and you can do iphone lock in. And now you have a realist to competitor to the apple watch, right? Like, yeah, that's the thing that actually holds a bunch of these companies back, is they cannot communicate with the iphone .

IT that be cool. Nei, it's written. It's written at the top of the building of our headquarters .

is just as be cool.

What's cooler than luck in cooler? Wp, you're in to go. Yeah like you you can now more directly figure out apple integrations .

by I think pad, get a woop. Let's go.

But I was that out of six year time horizon, maybe that is a Better move than take the meta ribands and figure out how glasses work, which by the way, glasses also held back because they cannot properly integrate with your yeah, this is like a real problem for all these products.

But yeah, that's why, like the glasses, we get them properly integrating with the phone. Then we also have like an additional .

audio solution. When you .

say an additional audio solution .

mean some headphones, well, no headphones .

and headphones well solution for our company guys.

I prepared a deck to talk about this.

We would need to be diversified in our audio.

Good IT happens to everybody and happy.

just immediate. Yeah but the garment, like the garment, has so much cool stuff in, they just looked so ugly. And we ve got the apple team now, right? They can not make IT look good. But that in that four team in peace just chained to their deaths.

we need that team to keep making iphone .

though I don't they're doing a lot to take the buttons off IT.

that's sure it's it's dinner next time like we did IT. I think you're the tyrker.

I think it's between government and meta. Once again, if you have you have to pull apart this corporate battle.

I think we should pick me up yeah because I think I think the radiant meta partnership is cool. I think the glasses are awesome and people really like them. And I think our ability to like I nagging them a little and make them way Better for people, instant Victory. Like I think with the other picks that we have here, we have a chance to like immediately make these things much cooler in a way that I feel like we're going to have to basically like tear down the garment and hardwork team and build IT back up. And I feel like that's onna.

take us a while and yeah.

it's going to be more than six years. Government, please know that I love you and you make cool things just like make .

them cooler if you like. Integrate virtus incorporates iphone, you can pass fifty five percent .

yet we'd love to have you.

We've got some really good audio solutions for you.

The development program is open and I will only be slightly more than half of your revenue.

yeah. Also, the smart classes are just like cool, and I love using them and I want to have them. So we're going on to that.

I feel good about that. I don't love that. We just hired a hard ware team out of meta, which makes me feel a lot of feeling is in general. But okay, we're doing ing that we .

now know everything .

about our privacy policy, by the way, is dupe. Like just just take that for grandma, are wondering about our privacy policy. IT is sick. The E. U.

Never gets mad at no, it's like not a problem at all.

I should have said at the beginning, by the way, by picking the iphone, we did just bring ourselves at delay for anti rest case that are not super secure about, but I feel it's one of those is coming anyway, right?

You know us nei has been begging .

to fight an anti trust case.

Yeah it's from this side. The that's really what I ve been after this all time is let me be an anaya st. It's perfect. I'm just saying we're raised in rents. If we're going down, we're going down, rich.

yeah. And by the time and this comes out, it'll be past twenty thirty will be out anyway. It's i'm no word to about IT.

All right? Next category is head funds. And here again, we're pretty wide open.

Apple is off the board, but i'm going to allow beats to stay on the board because IT is different enough that I think will allow IT because they don't care about IT yeah pretty much like I don't know if apple knows that are doing beats. So we're just going to let IT ride. But there's also obvious players here, bows and SONY. And sonus is a new one.

just headphones.

We will make this headphone flash speakers, we will go audio solutions in.

I think you know exactly where we're going with this.

Ni is going to advocate for the party speaker.

Yeah, i'm taking SONY now. The audio solutions.

We got a lot of wide arrange.

It's the U. L. T. era. I mean, you want luxury. What screams luxury more than the words to make a base.

a seven foot off speaker. But we shout out .

to the version listeners who just send me pictures of IT in the wild. amazing. But it's like a bird, do you know? But like the only one person cares about about birds, and it's me.

How does IT feel to be known for the cyberia c wipes and SONY party speakers?

Because this a good legacy that you're happy y about is that on the cybercrime wipe on d card gadget, cyber truck liver.

we have two wild card options. So don't worry for me. It's so nice on this one.

interesting. I want so on roll bad because again, we're in this lake. We want to build cool stuff that integrated sonus makes good products. They know how to make good idea products. I feel like we could take sonus and be like, just learn how to make software.

Everything seem be fine.

Just learn the easy part yeah like have you heard of apps? What if we did that?

This could be fine. So again, I would actually take SONY here. But just because of the party speaker situation, I think your headbands are really good. They are my so many of cancers are really good where I think they compete with bows to be the top, the market.

Then we've got an actual audio solutions catalogue like an actual array of speakers and is like what is one products I want desperately from suni won't sell is like all receiver, right? Like there there's a huge array of those audio products that you can roth, i'll seen a rate with the phone in way to even so I can't renate. That's why they have the software problems like through at platform has to support a bunch of stuff because IT hanch just put IT on your phone directly and also megabase, I would just get IT.

okay, I would have IT alex.

what do you think I just really like the SONY headphones OK? They just have such a nice wide to arrange like so just got in the headphones. They don't have any in ear monitors. They don't have any budget.

Also a tough time to be taking over sonus like real, real kind of reputation hit oh.

you know what you don't have on here. But again, i'm just going to point this out for everyone. I think the age of television is coming to an end because David made a list of gadgets and input tvs on them.

Yeah, no, I know part of me wants to build televisions. Well, I was just remind everyone that I asked the CEO of netflix about the same sunk rame TV. And he was, like, starts talking to me.

As like do you think this is a harbor drive of dom? And he was like, I don't know what you're saying, I don't want, but i'm just saying you made an entire list of gadget for t on here. profit.

You are ire.

to be clear, not an oversight we are not getting in the television business. What if we made no money and everything was impossible that we had to spend ire in our users?

All i'm saying is if TV around here anywhere, then I will change my headphone spec if you're giving the audio solutions but not tvs, then it's SONY. If you're tvs are back on the list, I have I required by like blood and heritage to take SONY television. Okay, and then I would change my headphone.

So we do have a wildcard round coming later. And if you, if you think you can win the fight for us to get SONY tvs, you can, you can hold your fire for them.

I'm going to fight for TCL so hard. Yeah.

I don't think you're going to win the city. T. V. I just don't think we want to be in the TV business.

Well, I taken him off the board. Here is a big, a big decision. How do we get mac west in the taboo is kind of know I got to play .

three moves ahead. I will be down with SONY here, by the way. Tough beat for both that none of us even .

attempting to take both. You made audio solutions. If IT was just headphones, I would immediately go vote so I could .

win the SONY fight later. interesting. okay. yeah. And I don't it's just like a bunch of weird scientists and masaccio like don't need that go showing under one stipulation, which is that we immediately remove every single product that make to something not stupid.

No, it's more letter. Yes, twice as many you else and .

another dash in the middle for no reason.

Just get in there.

okay? I think it's Sunny, okay, and I feel good about this. I think I think we're line. I can figure something out. Yeah, I feel now obligated to take something from samsung just so that you can argue for the firm TV because I don't need this my life.

That's not what I was going to take. Again, I believe it's a harbinger of due.

okay. So the next two things on here are, I would say, the sneaky places we're going to make a lot of money. This is what pays for everything else that the shareholders are going to love, and we're probably never going to talk about again.

Uh, the first one is APP platforms, which I suppose could be a single APP if we wanted a single APP. But i'm thinking more along the lines of lake big groups that seeks. So like I had adobe creative cloud as an and microsoft office and google works space. This is like probably be to be software that is going to make us just a tremendous amount money. What do you think?

So I have to go with office, okay, only for one small reason. And I can't even even think give a first savic. We cannot run this company with that microsoft itself. Oh, that's interesting. No company can be run with that microsoft itself like just for our own survival.

You can just like pay for a license will have so much money, we can just pay for a license for excel.

But what if other people paid us for licenses?

Yeah i'm just thank you you to dog food you know your own work yeah .

but we can have a dobe creative cloud and just have a stringer hold on. The entire industry .

want people to hate us.

We can just say I love of monopoly. I'm on this side of things now.

Another anti trust fight that i'm really excited .

about were going to be there six years by the time that stuff hits will be long on.

So I think the upside of creative cloud is we take creative cloud, we make the pricing Better. And word legends great, like inside the best possible P R, win is we just like give away premier. Like here you can have IT we .

sell like rather than the cloud licence. We were like, okay, you can just buy premier federal costs a thousand dollars. Yeah then we make a lot of money and people are happy because they can just .

own IT for six years. Yeah.

for six years and then it's gone. And then and then, you know who ever follows us? Panel, i'm sorry you're taking over the company from us.

but a lot of our ideas are like, what if we made slightly less money but whether my ideas or what if we made lot more money?

Yeah this this is a lot about the the distinct CT vibes of the verge cast incorporated team. I it's either office or its creative lab, right? I feel like there's nothing else you like we could go try to get like oracles weird business or like ibs consulting ARM or whatever.

Bit we haven't picked a google thing. Do we not want google workspace? Do we just take google workspace and go kill office?

So my idea here again, you know the our company's mission is try hard yeah and worst place is a ripe target for trying hard yeah. This is also where you could do messaging. You could you can walk in the room like make a list of all the messaging products and then walk out and six months later, come back and then look at the list of muc circle like bits one. We're just doing this one yeah and we're going to name A G chat. That's a real that's the thing you could do here is IT is messaging.

I would put out this is a separate category, so we're going to get to make a but if we whatever company we pick here, we can pick there, don't get, which is a case for and against sum folks here.

And if we pick microsoft office, we can't pick azure. If we pick google workspace, we can't pick google cloud.

That's right. No, I just pick in google cloud. okay? I will can see and say we should pick creative cloud in our mission here to make people not not hate us.

Yeah, I think I think this is where we win over all the people to use our hardware because they're gna love. This is how we sell the nova.

Think that because of fifty five percent lock in, you can run creative cloud on someone else's laptop. IT cost four times as much like I don't make the rules. yeah.

So for that one, we just like the more ier company makes we charge you more like you just A A, A sliding scale.

All I like that U K, per youtube subscriber instead of.

exactly. You're just getting out of in the industry. You basically .

get IT for free.

Yeah I love that the minute you start making success that we come for our cut .

and if you're wearing are wearable, we can track your general burnout level as a crater when we start bringing .

the Price spect time.

Yeah, I love that oh.

that we actually turn the apple off when you need a rest and then and then we will get that come down, Jimmy. right. So we're good on creative cloud. I mean.

sure.

I think it's the right answer I took .

I I know i'm the one of us to deal with like whatever terms of service conflagration and like fine.

i'll do IT yeah David, I work four days .

a year oh yeah friends that are the ones who like go to can lions and like me with advertisers, you have to actually like do the things .

I have to write the blog posts like, right we change our terms service. It's true that we're going to take your first one child, but we're doing this for the good of ultimately.

this is beautiful. I love this for you. Um right? Next category is the boring B2B of mon ey for set s.

This is where we get to we get to pick our cloud provider. We can make B2B chi ps tha t we sel l. I was gonna ARM in here, but we can't have ARM because ARM only thing is ARM. So that doesn't really work. We can this is this is where we make all of our money, but we tried and never talk about in public because no one cares.

Can we take tsc?

What would you want to take from tsc making the chips?

everybody?

Now that's their whole thing. But they .

don't make a product called tsc. They don't chip. Tmc are on the way that .

would be then just buying the company, which is not we're doing.

We're taking products. You get like one tsc factory.

This is like an expansion and draft in sports, right? We get to like pick from your roster. We can have your team.

What about that one company in your that actually makes the without ger few machine? The T S M C relies on that, like twenty three million dollar machine. Yeah, that is only.

What's the name in that company? A S M L. I think we should take ssl. I think we should take the machine that makes the fabs, the machine that makes the fabs. Okay.

not like ash.

yeah. But like I am ready defending asa.

I just want to print all the money like this. This, this is our money printer who gets matted action right lately 在 no one。

But it's also in second place, right? You have to have to go make the AI case. You have to do the A I C R M thing to make to grow. Actually, I guess we're just milking IT for profits and walking away.

right, right? You were only here .

for six years and we we can take that away because .

we took the kindle yeah which is a very funny trade to have made if you're trying to do A I mean, oh.

we could take whisper from OpenAI.

Whispers is open source. We're good there.

Oh yeah. Also open. I it's on this list is a manifold, but IT is not like a reverse.

It's a drain. Oh, I would true. I meant to write. This is basically like if we want, we can take like GPT .

four o from OpenAI, which which they are now stunning business judeo move are giving away for free to apple.

Yeah, i'm not I don't think that's the winner, but I just I wanted to have an AI option here.

Let's take in video g force now.

Yes, so this is the thing. How do we get something from the via? This is my question.

What do we take from in video? Is is just at eight one hundred business. Do we just we just take in .

videos whole AI chip situation A S M L. And then you're like, if you use these machines to make a one hundred and fifty five percent.

That isn't pretty good. Funny for that. I feel like we will be right for disruption there.

Yes, I think taking the NVIDIA AI chip business isn't like a strong move because now you're selling a gool cloud and and a six of her eyes and they all want to disrupt.

but they will you. So it's Better to say, do we worry that every other chip maker on earth is going to start making this and this becomes a bad bt pretty soon?

That's penis. This problem in six years.

Yeah, years. Okay, in six years I want to boat.

I mean the other the other problem here is that if if we take that, the bubble bursts and we become the poster child of the AI bubble that just burst and that's onna happen in less than six years.

That's true. This is why i'm saying we should take us in .

all the trip company that is like the least sexy business you could possibly imagine in that I doubt there's as much money in IT because I don't think they can make up that many of those.

It's like samsung and their battery business. Actually, maybe this is a good idea where samsung just makes a bunch of bread of stuff that makes them a .

tuna money so we can take L, G, display, right?

yeah. Oh.

that's good. Like you you want to put in your phone, come top to a lucky .

gold star I like that.

I was like LG display that feels like way .

we also just like, yeah and that feels that feels sticky. They're going to make screens for a long time. I feel like we're in and that's like that easier runs itself for, right? I love this and and we love talking about IT know you want to talk about what do you feel like this gets you close enough to the TV business that you're happy?

Now you like they reach the panels.

I go in yourself.

We're like I I got .

myself a monitor in TV business. Yeah, we're to take L G display. And we're going to we're going to make .

t and we're just gna bolt, two SONY party speakers to bm.

You think we will sell this tomorrow?

Come on, come. Little pulsing lights .

at the bottle. yeah. OK good. L, G, display. This is great.

I mean, right, we're going to take one war break, and then we're going to go back. We got four more to do. We're going to build for casting clear that.

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Alright, we're back next up for the triumph IT at verge. Cast CoOperated is messaging. We can we can take again, not a company. So we can take signal from signal or telegram from telegram, but we can we can take and reinvent any messaging, APP or platform or ecosystem that we want. We can take from meta, which I just realized because we took the rain smart classes, which I now slightly regret, because I would like to have taken what up.

So we can take all of the different google chat that have existed and finally make one.

Yeah, this is our opportunity.

Yeah, we can make .

jacket joan.

I can solve.

I can find, I can solve this. I mean.

again, on the list of, like, do IT nb legends, finally making j chat is his way up there.

just making j chat. And I got the phone. So are your blue bubble problems .

are solved? Worry about just put blue bubbles on the iphone.

Yeah, super done. Why even the chat? Baby, I met my wife.

That's a real story about that. That's not just the casing. That is a real thing. Yeah back and I found years of our early relationship. And jack.

do you ever randomly find like the transcripts of those chats when you're searching for something in your gmail? This is the thing that happens to me. Occasionally i'll search for like pizza in my gmail and it'll be like, did you mean this conversation you have to your x eleven years ago that we say to gmail?

I haven't thought about that and now i'm .

worry about looking.

So we're going to set that decide.

It's probably .

the best all of those G H. T. Conversations were before we were dating, so they were just conversations about the things we had gotten up to at night, which is a lot .

of I love yeah very good. Yeah, right. The only other one I was thrown is slack, which I think is like a forever unrealized potential .

that or discard.

But we can take this score, discord, right? That it's off.

I thought somebody else on disco.

Now, no, they almost sold, but it's still just discord. Microsoft was gonna, but then they were like this, like a disaster, which probably reasonable call g chat.

being good lake. We're going to kind of when people over with with adobe, but eventually we will jack up the Prices on them and having like yeah just having g there is like instant .

when you are right, I feel good about this. It's G, T. And we're agreed that we're scrapping all the other nonsense we're calling at g chat.

We building the g chat that always should have existed. Next one is streaming service um which is actually fun because again, we can't steal a company. So like netflix is out shit.

we just trade A G chat for youtube.

Oh no, no.

Can we go back? We can take talk. We can take tiktok. Yeah, you're right. We can dik tiktok for now.

It's so we can bought.

We are IT. We're gonna save america.

Yeah, we buy IT there. Oh my g why .

do .

the wild card round .

here is amazing? We're going to be heroes. G, chat. We're going to save america's youth of, wow.

We just did IT this. Is this work out the coldness company on earth? okay. yeah. And the good news is this one isn't having going to be very expensive because they're desperate trying to get there IT.

Ah you're heart out.

We do have to fight the chinese government and lario and they be that do you think at the end to buy tiktok, you have to win a boat race against la elson? Like, i'll do this if you can beat me in .

the american cup. Let's yet about IT. Yeah okay. So I will just say there's a bunch of disney streaming services that are interesting.

E, S, P, N would make us an awful lot of money for a pretty long time. Uh, who u exists? Disney plus exists. We can have apple T, V plus and have all the good shows.

Yes, those are also dependent on external licenses that we not acquire.

true with our streaming .

service acquisition, right? We're not getting the art rights to star wars.

We get we get all the existing contracts. Yeah, but I think you're right. If we get disney plus, we get we don't get to own star wars.

You're right. The economics of streaming are very simple. There is a handful of companies who think the samsung crame TV will continue to exist their business model as they pay a lot of money for content and then try to pay make people pay money for IT.

The other model is tiktok gets free content for america's teenagers and then sells against and not for nothing uh an infinite ray of pirated movies from the idiots who are paying for content. Yeah, it's to be the economic of the business. Do you want to have costs or not costs, but tiktok mostly making a ton of money right now. Well, there we'll fix that.

Fifty five percent. No, no. We do something like al with a dobe creative cloud where we somehow charge our own creators.

We're going to have to because if we get technic, we don't get cap cut. So we're going to have to immediately put the creative cloud team on building cap cut .

people with the tiktok video.

That is cap cut. So just spin. IT, good enough.

yeah. Like they go tiktok and cap, we've done. IT, right? I think that's right. I feel good about IT.

I like briefly wanted to fight for prime videos just because IT is like, it's another one that is like, try harder. Uh, oh, no, we took kindle. God, yeah, we took the amount of money that costs that taking kindle has caused us. Good lord.

I mean, IT is very funny that we took candle and gruel.

That's what we took from those companies.

I will say if if we want to go back and take slack in youtube, we have a chance.

No, we are committed. Is there anything .

cooler than fixing jj t like that might be the single most important thing we do at this company. I feel really good at that IT.

I mean, the teens will prefer us for tiktok.

That's true. okay. So have two more categories, one of which I just changed two minutes ago, very excited that so far, we have the iphone business from apple, we have the kindle business from amazon, the PC business from lenovo.

Uh, we're doing all of meet is wear arables. We haven't decided IT for killing the quest, but we're probably killing the quest. We're all in on the smart glasses.

We're taking SONY audio solutions. We're taking adobe creative cloud. We're taking L G display and we're tag H H T. Well, we're taking the massive of google messaging system, which I think actually probably means we hire most of google because everybody he's working on message and and we're making jt and then we are saving amErica and taking A A tiktok.

How do we feel so far feel good deterrent rules? And I really feel like IT does the ovo is still very much the like weird one out, but we're going to make any of cool again. It's going be great.

Yeah, we will fix IT. okay? We have two left. Which one is wildcard gadgets, which is I think the rules still applies so we can't take from a company we've already taken from what we can take from any category, including category we have not talked about.

So it's some other product that verge cast ink is going to make that is not off limits because we've already taken from another company. We can we can do tvs. This is where we take the cyber truck.

We want to take cyber truck. Anything you guys want? Any initial thought? exit.

Well, so this is where I was going back, taking L, G, S, T, V. Okay, but then we are to have L, G display.

I think this is Better. We have the part of the business that's like good and not the part of the business that is web S. I feel really good about L, G, display and not defeats.

If you guys heard of the company called stores and biko.

this is how we get in the like, but spoke whisky.

that's how we get in. We just get the volcano. They make a whole bunch of different fps. We just get the volcano business OK. And then we like, we make that looks really, really cool. We put a big screen on IT, puts some big speakers on the side, just a whole one stop party business .

just for alex.

And I was just, you know, legalization is coming for this country. We we got to be there at the the star feeling .

that I gotta tell you. I just feel like if if we were in this to twenty forty .

yeah .

that d be down twenty thirty feels if he and that's just like a lot of legislation stuff. I'm just throwing this out there the invidia .

shield yeah video .

and we took all you to swim. It's to be with them.

We're really, really.

this gets us the t gram.

yeah.

Why this? Because I I think between grants and I, we can communicate with an audience or T, V, can we can bring the shield back to problem. This is a try harder.

If you look on the forms right now, people are like the shield doesn't IT anymore. It's true. And IT was for a long time.

There is a lot of people who are like what you want to do is run infused on apple TV. And I think that's that's a shame. interesting.

Yeah, we're not getting confused.

Do we want to get into the car business? Is my big question here because we to be a successful car maker, you ve got to make a shoe, you ve got to make mid crossover. And I like to suck for us. okay.

But again, we would take all the infrastructure required to do IT. So we be up and running.

making key for tomorrow.

We're not buying kia. We're not we're just taking the fourteen.

I don't want any part of the key a ha business.

They keep that like you don't want the musing mucky. This is your moment. Take the mucky you and to shoe.

tell you, right. Thank you. But if you know that maybe like crazy about IT, you know what's good and nuts, but I don't that business is to to what I do. I talked a lot, of course.

say, like that's .

all terrors apart. Okay, wait.

I thought of IT samsung barely alive digital camera business, like getting into .

the camera business and then .

we can actually make them smart phones, right? Yeah, we actually you do the thing. We make the smartphones.

mirror camera. The samsung still make cameras.

Do we want samsung though? Or do we want like fuji x one hundred business?

yeah. You know, in the solutions, you just make them right?

Make four of them. Let people buy them. Who would like them?

I like that. I like taking a camera. That's actually a great idea.

Yeah and then we fix this software so that IT like doesn't take you twelve hours just to change a setting.

Yeah SONY cameras but with menus that humans beings can navigate. Yeah, but I do think fug is like a good in terms of a wild card gadget for our brand especially.

And then we do like a limited release of the iphone in the fug, and they have like the same. We'd sell a lot of money.

That's pretty good. We're taking we're taking fuji x one hundred. Yeah, I like IT. And the last category, the one I just added a minute ago, I had another non gadgets wild card, but I think that's boring. So what we're going to do instead is we're .

going na buy a start up yeah I I know my answer anyway .

really I really .

hope it's the same one.

It's revision. So you want to .

get the yeah was because they don't make a shoe.

They also famously lose all the money in the worth.

Sure, about fifty five person. I can fix this.

If you want a rival, you have to buy an iphone. Brithers are now in that purchases on iphone fifty five five.

What about like we could get S S. I. We could have like just the A I guy, one guy we're already I in that .

case is in still start up because I think I would just to say, I think open an account, but you want something you like start up. You like an earthy. So my vote, if you're buying an A I company I wanted .

buy anthropic.

yeah yeah, which is I would say less but also way less problematic. And they're .

actually making products, right?

Their products is is moving along fast. They're like kind of write in the mix with google and OpenAI. I don't know that I want to deal with the like sampling of at all, if i'm being honest.

Co is notoriously difficult here.

he actually. So if if we're going A I, and that was one of my instincts, my vote would be entropic. I also think lake, a company like notion, would be an interesting one thrust by potentially .

a lot of money there. Should I start up living around for a long time?

This gets like, what is the start up? Yeah, like this stripe still a start up.

They are doing pretty well. I like the idea of anthropic. Like that is firmly a start up.

Yeah anthropic counts .

I think like riva has factories. Is that a startup when .

he has factories?

Fair IT is just pretty much a car company. But like the problems, if we buy riviere, they're going we have six years to convince you to make a show. You will convince you to make a shoe.

The r three x is very close to a shoe, but it's it's cool shoe. That's all good for you.

So okay, the other topic questions, do we want to be in the A I game like we no, we don't need to move.

not really, because we've to do with copyright stuff. Now I just got a lot of blogs he's going to have to write already like apology blogs. I don't we don't need more.

Yeah nei is definitely the one testifying in congress, right? Are on the same page about that. Yes, I version other options for first option. Actually I love an and we could buy D J, I, another company that might need some saving in amErica that does some interesting stuff.

but not to start. So this not just companies we buy.

is IT not a super not a start? Yeah, you're probably right. Okay, fine. That doesn't count. There is the lake canvas and figure as of the world that also are kind of effect on whether their startups.

But like if we're in the creative world of creative cloud, we follow that in the ftc. You won't allow IT. Yeah, these aren't the rules.

Canvas, ten years old and as a twenty six billion dollars, just like not to start the like, you want to go, you do. You needs some installation ship. Like what seem like weird two person APP.

I know, interesting OK care IT this discord count?

no. Now to start up, if riviere isn't to start up, none of these all of things are art up you. O fair enough.

I think anthropic is the best city I have thrown. C is can combine anthropic, yeah, it's like we're going to like run them off to the side. We're going to sort of instagram anthropic or it's like you to your thing and if you become really successful, will room and IT for you eventually, yes. But until then, like you're kind this is like your your problem and like if you get in trouble, that's your problem and not ours. We're going to call them like the moon shot factor.

whatever. Well, I think just having them collab on making syria not suck would be like .

huge yes yeah because we do need syria and not suck. That's pretty important.

Big, big change for us. Okay.

alright, anthropic. IT is welcome to the team. Anthropic people.

how do you feel about party speakers? How can you make A, I accelerated.

make these els blink smarter than ever?

Have a lot of audio solutions ready for you. okay? I feel like we've done this, but I can I recap for you. Yes, at verge cast incorporated, here are the things that we make now.

We have the iphone business, we have the kindle business, and all of that entails the ovo pcs are now verge cast pcs metas, whole wearables thing, the quest and the rabin smart glasses. That's us now. So many as audio solutions, headphones, party speakers to the whole gm, that's us.

us. Now a do be creative cloud is our big software APP platform. Play LG display is now ours. We are, we are just cabinet up for everybody. If you want a TV hit up the forecast. I love this, right? We are taking over all of google's messaging hanagan and turning them into the chat, which might be the single hardest thing we signed .

ourselves up for this. What I it's like the guitar and the singer start arguing little bit and always just break up. That's passage ing.

Uh, joe biden just gave us tiktok. Congrats to us big day. We now have fuji films, excEllent hundred business and anthropic is now part of a forecasts and CoOperated.

How do you feel? This feels good. This feels great.

This is the right combo of things. We're doing a little bit of good. We're doing a little bit more evil. Uh, we're making some money and we're going to fix messages.

We are incredibly deep into hardware like my only worry is like we not have done L, G, display and pick something that is more like cloud software.

A I E, no, no, no. Because if we own the hardware than they all have to do. We love rock c, the iphone. We have all the power.

And the topic is like their whole thing, as they want to be like A B to b thing so that, that could eventually pay dividends for us.

And we have most of google because we acquired all of google messaging.

Yeah and we're we're just printing money in increasing creative cloud fees.

Yeah.

just to be clear, right, microsoft is going to be paying a so much money for their creative cloud.

I think there is money to be had again. Tiktok business model is, uh.

the pie content. What are we going to do with the tiktok shop? What's our first move with the tiktok shop?

We are to fifty five percent. Yeah, stand up. You want to transaction and take talk shop were taking the fees. Yeah.

we just charge outrageous fees there except for our own products, in which case we give them. We don't charge a fee at all.

Oh yeah, the self preference thing is going to be out of control on all of these. Like, do you want good photoshop? You have to use R X one hundred camera. Others SE. You get bad photoshop. Really sorry.

this is actually great. It's like, why do these companies actually, like we're pretending .

we run the company, we are gonna.

So we started out trying to do a good job and doing waiting behind us all right now. Yeah right. Well.

I think we've solved IT. I feel like there's we're easily a trillion dollar company right after batter.

Immediately, our website is going to be sick.

By the way, that's very important to me. We're going to give other products cool names and our website is going to be so tight with like a good, understandable, you are our scheme, these other things I care about, i'm going to run the naming of everything you guys can run the company, but i'm in charge of names.

The speakers will like have real names.

Yes, more letters. You continue to say this. There is only one solution.

but but it's I think it's right. It's Normal numbers. It's just all letters.

And you have to guess what the letters mean because there are in no water. It's just constants. And you you have to guess that's products from now on.

I am very exit, I promise the people mega basis coming back solution mega .

base is coming to many new products. We've new places to put megabase.

The iphone is going to have a hardware mega base.

but we are going to rattles your head off with the smart glasses with make. We will give you and solve your migrants all g .

mega base .

every time .

you type just up.

Well, it's been an honor. Thank you for joining this company with me.

This is wonderful. This a wild years.

Yeah, we're going to make so much money.

Panels have fun. No panels .

goes .

to jail. We were out.

Yeah, right. Thank you guys will do this in you. All right?

That is IT for the .

verge cast today. Thanks to ny, alex, for doing this weird thing with me, and thank you, as always, for listening. As you can tell, we have a lot of thoughts on all this, but I want to hear yours too. We're going to put the links in the shower notes to coverage we've done of these companies.

But I really want to know what you think, what we pick wrong, what did we pick right? What would you have pick differently? How would you build your tech company? You can always email us at verge, cast at the verge dict, com, call the hotline, eight, six, six, verge one one.

Tell us all your thoughts on verge cast ink. If you have thoughts on anything else, head up the outline, send a email we laugh hearing from you. The show is produced in remedium, James and will poor.

The verge cast is a verge production and part of the box media test me, I alexie will be back on friday to talk about all of the upcoming news. There's a lot of gadgets about to come, plus some more weird in the AI world and lots more. We'll see you then broken.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, it's lee.

From the koto with new ipad top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in A I space? Why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that.

Seems you'll hear all that in more this month. I'm decoder with me, life presented by strike. You can listen to the coder whether you get your podcast.