Vision Pro, Galaxy S24: it’s gadget season again
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And welcome, very chest, the fight ship forecast special computer, the form of computing that is all around at all times. And he said.

IT speaks up .

on you yeah, it's apple's dream is to have just and ever halen just creeping, creeping eruption. Hi, am you, my friend David pearce here?

Hi, I don't have to follow eruption, but here we are.

I mean that that's that's the goal of all computing. The purpose of computers is didn't make great art and emotional experiences. I strongly believe this to be true. And what you to do that most effectively, you have to design state of the art fork OA displayed micropolis displays two micon pixel. You have to convince the entire music industry to support doby attach s and you have to convince people to wear the sea galles so that Jimmy page can just creeping, creeping. Think about IT, you know, twenty years from now, that reference wall make any sense and will be like, and then halsey will be creeping, creeping in that world.

I got to tell you, none of what you just had made any sense now. So imagine to .

this problem starts in the context of that joke, like the point of technology is for tailor swift to just creep up on you from behind exchange is your high. Alex.

i'm just wondering what the shoes situation is like. Like do they have to think about the shoes they wear when they creep up on you? Is that part of the facial .

audio experience? One hundred percent true that a Jimmy page has to wear very quiet industries, the shoes of the toes. Yeah, in late. For some reason, Victoria on has chosen to join us today.

I I am here and I don't know why radio head isn't doing the creeping .

they were I mean, my shoe gaze was very quiet form the shoot I mean, like they had to look at their shoes. That's the joke that i'm just trying to make. That's what i'm saying because they had so many guitar peddles. This is an entire honor of music that was named after nerds looking at the fee.

And apples bring back, yes, that's that's very right.

Quite a lot happened this week. Actually, the real reason Victoria here is because he and I went and saw the vision pro. I thought for the second time the try.

So for the first time, there's a lot to talk about with that demo, why apple gave a bunch the same demo over again to a lot of people that samsung had galasso and pact announce. The s twenty four is full of A I. There's a smart ring fee covers wearables we're going to talk to about to her about the smart thing. Let me around by the mark sacked berg just sort of appeared on a website this week creeping, creeping and announced that is the purpose of that is not to build agi, which you will never call he renamed the entire company metal metaverse didn't remove the company is time but he just sort of appeared and said alef saying, I know and I was said, what about about that? Well.

can you magine how cool the move IT would be if he just released the company like A I incorporated?

yes. Or we're not far took me so long to .

call IT meta from facebook. It's not going to make IT a second leave to A I made incorporated.

There's some ways only to poll once in renny ing. The company is one of those like you got this clock restarts yeah you got another fifteen years before you know what actually matter was the wrong name uh, but we can talk about all that. Let's start with the vision pro.

Yeah what I actually I I think we should start with your experience having this experience nei and v, because this was a weird hands on experience like we get a lot of these are, we sit in a room and somebody gives this a demo of the thing, but the two of you had this odd experience where ah for the first time, this is where are strange and I haven't thought about IT until that happened.

Regulate humans were photographed wearing division pro and so all over the internet this week, this is like become a meme of a bunch of like reporters doing the pinching pinch gesture uh and there's been like you know drips and drafts of information about how this actually went. But I think the way apple is rolling this thing out, showing into people, is actually really interesting. So can you guys just sort of tell the story of your day with the vision pro is your experience? So like walk us through IT to begin .

with her yeah so you know um i'd read realized right up of the demotic got a wwdc.

So I fever dream .

hands on. This is my fever dream hands on this time around literally twenty four hours after that happened. I was like, did that actually happen or did I fever dream this all up? I I wasn't entirely sure, but I felt like the imprint, the ghost in print of the vision pro on my forehead for a full twenty four ours afterwards. So yeah, I did happen. But yeah, now I was only one who wasn't hinting, pinching in the photos.

So I would just say this very directly. The purpose of this is very clear. Apple wanted to be in control of the first photos of people wearing the vision pro.

I fundamentally uncomfortable with the trade that we made here and that everyone else made because we went to the thing they didn't tell us they were going to give us photos to walk out with. We did the demo. Demo is really interesting and always excited to see a new piece of technology.

There's an enormous amount of new ideas in the vision pro to contend with, fun to look at IT again. And then they like over going to take your picture. You want a photo and I like, yeah.

And IT didn't occur to me until I walked out there that apple took my photos. They selected which photos. They were gonna air drop to me, and then they did the same thing for everyone else.

So we are in the photos. I think that is interesting to look at pictures of people in the headset. No one has seen that outside of apple's marketing before.

yeah. And this has been of a closely guarded thing for seven months now. We really have not seen pictures of people in had set until now.

We have. But IT was all like models and a gorgeously lit home.

IT will excuse me, alex.

we've seen ads of people in the headset.

Yeah, yeah no, I are orvil sly.

My models, sorry, sorry. All the models like this .

parking other says we were in a gorgeously at home yeah well, but there's something weird there, right? Especially a picture of me and there's A A picture of the and everybody else. There's some assumption there that that is our photo, right? But IT is apple d's who is an apple's photo of me.

They got to pick. And I know, no, I know a bunch of people who have this experience. They were trying to make anny faces.

They were doing funny and gestures, and apple just didn't give those photos to them. weird. That's a weird thing that is part of this, and it's because apple wanted to control those first set photos. That's fair. That's apple provided with a product is not launched yet.

I will just remind everyone, once people buy this thing, all bets are off right? And like, so this is that pre moment, we are everyone's getting excited about an idea that has a boundary, right? And the boundary is still being very much set by what apple is saying and doing and allowing to be seen about this thing.

And eventually that bounder disappear. And to me, that's the fun part. I keeps saying. That is actually the fun part.

Some dummy is going to try to drive a cyber truck with a vision pro on their face. I know what's going to happen. I know the economic youtube and I know what I typed for her rewards.

And like that will be crazy. And that is totally not contemplated by what IT is now. And so you're filling all the space between what you are seeing in the dummy on youtube driving in the cyber truck vision pro with like you're imagination, which is the best part of any product.

That is, by the way, the same things happened to the rabid or one right now. That is a product that people are paying money so their imaginations can run wild and and the actual product will do something or not do something here. So I just having, like, warn at once and then warn at the second time, and then seen that explosion of imagery as I, oh, apple got what I want to out of this.

They got to control this first set of photos, and some of the photos legitimately look extraordinary. Quite the dude from cool hunting and hoody. Yeah, yeah.

I think those were in L. A. I think they did demos and in york and L, A, and I just .

going to say this. L, A, got like, we saw our photos when we were like, h, okay, you know, these are our photo. Yeah, sure. And then we saw the light photos. And like, excuse me, they have like, really cool angles and everything like that. I just look like, I look like i'm saying one does not simply walk into virtual murderer that is like, that is what I look like in that thing. But you know, new, I was the only one in new york who look remotely cool because he was just sitting there refusing .

to pinching pinch. I I love. There are two things I play on with, and if you look at these photos, you can, you can just see that i'm a bread. I didn't do the hand gesture, and I refuse to tuck the cable behind my back.

Which did they ask you to tuck the table?

The cable I was ignomy hold the backpack in my hand in the what photos that receive, you cannot see that me hold in the battery pack .

in my end of the .

guy in the hood. E that table was running down the back of his hood. E he legitimately .

ck the battery packed down his holy, just because, like, you can't see the wires like those immediately. The first thing I clock in his photo besides, wow, why does he get to look like kylie run in V, R, and I look like I telling habits that they can walk in the virtual mode.

Anyhow, I don't want to over the next on IT. Again, IT is apple's product. IT is their launch.

That's how I want to communicate about IT. Like I keep saying, eventually people you get the things in, all bets are off and that's fine. Like that's the gap.

And I I personally think that this this period in between is when people get the most excited. I'm certainly gonna people not to be excited, right? I do think IT is it's just important to note like, oh, that is that I didn't take that photo.

That photo was not editorially controlled by me and we we're given the photos. And you know, i'm a huge snap about these things. As everyone knows all the time i'm constantly talking about with huge disclosure. I don't take that photo right. The second piece and i'm actually I think this is where the gap between the experiencing at the first time than me experiencing for the second time, there are some people who ve got in the time of four times now is what apple is basically running the same demo over over. They're not meaningfully different than the last time. So the second time I found myself way more attention to the hardware like the first time as all my gosh, the eye tracking works that is extraordinary ly impressive like i'm just i've got my hands on my side and click my fingers together that just works that is crazy impressive and this time as like, okay, i'm wearing a headset on my face, i'm absolutely looking at a screen and i'm wondering what this thing can do and where its limits are and there that second time, they are just more perceptable. I still don't know they are because I know I totally controlled thirty minute demo loop with like a lot of people watching me and people around me watching what I was watching on their ipads, which is just a weird way to .

a and kind of coming in and out of your vision as they want to.

That's always fun. But the part where it's like you're using the computer and they can see what your eyes are looking at because they're monitoring you on the ipad, it's like I didn't I didn't push the boundary of efficient pro and I exchange. I was like, yeah i'm looking at that's a page um but IT works like that thing still works even when you're trying to perceive the limits of the hardware, which is really interesting. Vm, curious how did you this is just like your first blush at that you know kind of a .

different experience. yeah. So like look at that. I read your think about IT, but actually experiencing IT for yourself, you are not prepared for two, four years lakes screens being zoom into your eyes and just like your brain trying to like square that. Um there was like a large part of IT where was like, oh my god, I can actually see where my eyes are going. And like cognitively that was very strange.

And then you know a lot of that I would just felt like, you know, they were laughing at me because I keep him like turning my head all around and trying to move through the space and they were like, haha, you know, doesn't IT look like like and yes, but also, um there were parts where my eyes started going into over low light overload. My eyes were just darting around all of the places. And that's when I think I started coming up against some mvita that you were talking about where I realized, oh, this is a screen because, you know, vivid wondering is a thing.

And if your eyes are going at twenty million miles a minute, it's very hard for IT to catch up with you. So there were a parts where I was like, oh, I don't understand why IT looks so blurry when i'm looking at this one thing. Oh, it's because he has a caught up to my eyes going twenty thousand miles a minute, because I literally was just going like like my eyes heard after a while because I was going so fast because there is just so many different things to look at and trying to see if, like if I look at a different way.

Is IT onna change? Oh yes, I know. So it's it's really hard to describe what it's like and what you're seeing in there, but it's it's very high res is one thing I can say.

I mean, view that kind of makes the song like you didn't have a super good time inside of this thing like I think there's an interesting thing for us as as reporters where you go in being like I gonna ask questions of this thing where like if i'm just like a regular person who bought IT, i'm just going to put her on my end and see what happens, did you?

But like I feel like most people's first experience, like nei, you're talking about, comes away with like the holy shit that was cool and the like, just the sheer technology, the the pinching pinch gesture, the eye tracking, like you come away from being very impressed IT doesn't I didn't get the read. The U. K. Promoted sort of blown away by your first experience with IT.

I think it's because I had time to sit with that, right? Like when you're in the moment, you're just kind of like, oh my god, I can see the texture of the rock on this one cano that I am sitting on that is not something I was expecting. I literally was just like, oh my god, that rock is so textured, not a thing I was thinking about.

But then you know um and I think IT also has to do with the physicality of the device. The longer the demo goes on, the more aware you are that you're wearing something on your face because it's quite heavy is what i'll say like I at the end of my thirty minute demo, I started getting attention headache because I really did feel IT just like pressing on my face. And if you look at the pictures of the journalists and if you look right here where the nose, uh, means like your nzo lab for falls is like the correct term.

But if you look at that part right underneath the sky gog's, you can see IT pressing on a lot of people quite hard. You can see IT in my photos and um you can see IT and quite a few people's photos. So like that was just a thing that kept bringing me back to the to the fact that I was wearing something on my head and taking me out of lake.

The wonder of all of that because there are our parts where you're just blown away like IT is ama star wars nerd IT is kinda ool to be in the disney lus up and be like go on on tato win u i'm watching a new hope and that kind of cool but then you know you think about IT for a bit, right? Sort of like, oh, you kind of come down and i'm curiously like for your experience being the second time around did IT just like wear off that quickly because I said markets Browne's tweet where he is like first time, oh my god, wow. Second time still cool and well. But ww, it's a little heavier in the third time, all he was thinking about was the weight of IT on his on his head.

So i'm just curious, i'm so hesitant to say fully formed thoughts about this thing because no one has ever spent time with IT without a babysitter ever. And I this was in our comments and this is like the oldest thing in the world um and it's on thread three product. These reviews are great and like these are not reviews at all, like not even a little bit.

This is the most highly controlled experience you can have in the best possible circumstances. And yes, some people have had the experience more than once. So they are beginning to form thoughts like markets I think is how the experience four times um other people who did the spatial video demos earlier uh or A S late last year, they've had the experiences four or five times like yes, you can begin to form some thoughts even if you just repeat experience over over again.

But I still don't know what it's like to virtual screen a mac into IT and try to use this as a computer monitor which is the thing they really want you to do. I still don't really know what it's like to pro was the web in IT and they showed us we d ni. Both got to open saffery and go to the verge by punching the dumb virtual keyboard that makes no sense, which we should absolutely talk about more.

And so i'm just a very hesitant to say, okay, this is what i'm beginning to think because that the circumstances are were so deeply controlled that it's like, yeah, I think of things heavy bit. I wasn't do anything like that immersive, right? I wasn't.

We are constantly contact shifting even in the demo and like, look at this thing. Look at that thing. Here's another one car. Take the wheels up. You're down there just like showing you all the things you can do.

It's like taking a tour. You know, it's like, now look at this, now look at that and now look at this. So like just IT IT is hard to sit with anyone experience more than like for a hot second because you're getting shepard through like a tool of what they want you to see.

For example, they showed us photos in the days that were shot on the vision pro in specifical video. And who am I were my answer. I like, i'm going to valued the quality of this camera. And then seven seconds later, we were under the next thing right now, like, uh, I have some feelings on this, but I didn't spend any time with IT right like that. That's weird and I just don't want I like i'm trying very hard to be careful but the one thing I will say is, boy, is that obviously are looking .

scream yeah which is the thing they .

don't want you to think about.

I do have one evaluation question for you though, joe. I mentioned that he was using a different strap this time, and I felt a little lighter. IT was a little more pleasant for her to use. Join a turn for device in wh ingin. Well, street corner, we're you guys using the same strap like you using a different .

strap this time? No, so like I was weird because they gave me the fabrics strap. Because when you set the thing up, you do like the face ID thing, or you move your head round in a circle twice.

And that's supposedly like scans and guzan estimate of like the fit for the light seal. And so when I walked into the room, IT was ready for me. I did not get a choice as to which had strap .

I was going to use.

And I got the fabric strap. So strap the big, they showed me the other trap that the other people were wearing. But I didn't get to try IT out. All I got told was that one gives more support, which by the end of the thirty minutes, I was like I could to use more of that support. Yeah, because my hair was just you.

because that's what you guys use when you tried IT out at W. D. C.

And that, I mean that that truth of all the heads that that we've tried, right, like you, you're definitely making a compromise between something that looks Better and is easier to adjust and put on verses something that ultimately lands in a more comfortable place. Like the quest. You can you can either get the one strap or the strap that goes overhead or and get the elite t strapped.

That's even more like I think ultimately, the answer is probably lots of different versions of this. And so it's odd that apple has controlled in the way that, that has. But need I to your point, I think your in things are good and fair and right, except that there is now a huge number of people, as you're listening to this podcast, are having to decide whether to spend thirty five hundred dollars prior during this thing. There are likely to be supplied constraints is not going to be a lot of them. So for us to just say, oh, wait a few weeks until everybody has IT, then you'll able to get one is actually not helpful because by a few weeks or now IT might be months from now before you can actually get one.

I feel like the people who are going to spend thirty one hundred dollars, the newest apple gadget, that money is already committed. They already know. No, like that.

I think that I mean.

this is an actual reviewer like the the thing that reviews do now in twenty twenty four is not always help people make purchase decisions like sometimes IT is. But for something like this, it's actually to put IT in a cultural context almost as much as how people decide whether to buy IT because there is infinite will be infinity content about IT.

I don't know that I agree in this case though, because I think whether you should buy a new phone or not, people mostly knew the answer, right? Like you're going to buy. You're going to buy.

And I think if there's something like wildly new and different, we have a responsible to talk about. In this case, it's like we've been talking about, most people have no context for this thing. They have no experience of IT. They have no idea what that is.

I totally disagree with you. I totally disagree with you. O K, because apple has been extraordinary successful at making sure people don't talk about the thing like A V, R headset.

And IT is absolutely A V R headset. I just look at the look at the pictures. You.

there are pictures. Now, I feel like you just agreed with what I said. People have no idea what they.

they absolutely do. The quests, there are questions everywhere. The quest three is not as popular. That should be. The quest two is all over the place, all the time. I have put people in quest, in our request, that I and watching IT blown away by how textured the dinosaurs like this is. Not so out there you are saying.

even people who don't think theyd know what this thing is, know IT more closely than they realize.

I'm going to one hundred percent agree with, yeah, I am not because I walked into the going like, I don't know what to expect. And the more I spent time is, is that I was like, oh, i've used a bunch of apple products before. Actually this feels quite familiar.

Like I kind of do know what i'm using because like you have the digital crown on the vision pro, I have warned every single apple watch since the apple watch series two. So that was super familiar. And then you on the other side, there's a flat side button that you use to take speciaal photos.

Video, that's just the side button from the apple watch, like everything inside the the experience as well. It's like it's like launching launchpad on your mac. If you used apple products, you kind of know what it's like. It's just apple, but naked V, R, that kind of what what? The vision problem.

You should read that as a compliment. Tables designers, right? They took this a very estate concept.

They took the best of their concepts from other products. They marry them together, and they made IT all seem very obvious. It's best like that's what that company is good at.

But i'm saying just conceptual if you have worn another VR heads, am confident that people listening to the show have warn other V, R. headsets. We have been covering these products for a decade. There is a decade of context for this thing.

sure. But then how do you explain the fact that apple is giving people thirty minute demos in a store in order to be able to do this? Like I just h no.

no, I know that's because not everybody has used for our heads sets. They are really like in if you don't have access to one, if you don't have a friend, if if you don't have a friend who works with the verge, you probably don't have access to one, you probably haven't tried IT. And so for a lot of people, this will be one of their first experiences with VR outside of like the horrible experience you see at a ma in arcade. And for IT, sounds like IT is probably one of the best VR experiences that you guys that everybody on this call has experience, including like those was the video that like a thousand fifty years had said.

talk about things. People have no virgin.

And that's the only one i've used. I don't use any other healthy.

This is Better than that. I can say fairly constantly.

It's just me out there is my art to but but this is like a lot of people, probably they understand we are conceptual. They might have used like A A garbage version. And apple is hoping that their version is so advanced, is so much improved, that that is something different.

I don't know if that's true. I haven't tried and I don't know if that's true. IT sounds like so far from everyone of you get your experiences, it's Better. But it's not like, well, we don't even need to call this V R. Anymore, which is what apple very much wants us to all.

I so do not buy the premise that most people understand V R conceptually. I just.

no, I don't think, I don't think they do. I agree with you there where I think like people probably understand conceptual. This is A V R headset, but also don't stand conceptually .

what we are going to put the difference. Let me try. I don't know, i'm going to be successful.

Let me try. okay? I think people understand for your headsets. That's what I disagree with.

Tame, I think ready player one is a movie Stephen spell berg made like that's a real thing that exists. People understand that you can met IT sells these things every Christmas. People buy the r headsets and we'd play games. A few, a few people do a few.

Forty million, forty million.

Quite a lot in the scheme of things, right? Like we've talked a lot on the show about how supernatural is the thing that drives the most medical sales to women and people over forty. Like sure, that's a growing business for them, so much so that they tc tried to stop them from buying IT.

So like there's just a thing there that is interesting, right? There is some acknowledgement of the product category by by some larger group of people. And IT has been around for a long time, and there is culture built around IT like ready player. One of the things then there is apple saying this is a not of your head, this is spatial computing.

This is the future IT is, you know, one of things that i'm curious to think about when we actually get these things outside of control is like what is the delta between, uh, four hundred dollar quest three and a thirty five hundred dollar vision pro? I IT is impossible to know right now. Like you have to just like sit there and look at both of them and experience both of .

them and find out it's the via the the thing writing .

in the middle is the verge of a thousand dog. But you know the the quest line is basically a mid range and or its my problem on your face, the vision pro is an m two processor on your face. They are different.

They are gonna different capabilities. Are the screens meaningfully different? I I don't know the answers to these questions um but apple's positioning this thing is not competing with request three. And the thing that jumped out at me in these demos is how few of them we're actually a right like the the the disney plus APP they're putting you on tati they're putting you in the avengers tower. Those are straight up V R.

Experiences IT doesn't matter what room you're in, when you watch, uh, spac video that you brought in some spatial video that I shot of max on my iphone fifteen pro, you can watch IT or you can I put IT in like a theater setting and I was like washing the video in holy OK like I was awesome, right? Like the thing they do in that demo you're watching a video and IT will take this the highlights in that video and reflected under the clouds below the mountain, it's so like, so cool. Still a hundred percent a rendered VR experience. Like, where's the A R? And I here's a full size f one car in the room with you.

Just rip off the car, the wheels of the a, the alpha.

Yeah, there I here's an asset, mark neff, one car in jig space, which a cool APP and it's like, well, one okay, so I need a room. It's big enough to hold a car and then i'm going to look at this car. What now? Like where's the stuff? Like where's the thing where you're augmenting reality, where you're creating computing in space? I would point .

out apples also not calling in an A R headset.

right IT.

There's seeing space al computing apples trying to prevent .

this other thing that currently means nothing IT has some sort of definition, right? It's been around for a minute.

Apple is spinning one. I just want to correct. I said metal quest two sold forty million headsets. I'm wrong. It's so twenty million as of twenty twenty three, so half of that, right?

So my argument is a little weaker than I was before.

Sorry, sorry about that. Twenty million people have tried IT, at least probably. I mean, we can say up to forty if you can't like the virtual boy and the quest one they have was like, no, but not doing that bath.

Putting that aside, just putting that aside, how many people have tried iphone? How many people have tried mac books like I want I really think selling here is the apple lace of IT like by calling IT. You know, apple always does stuff. It's like they give a different name for something that we already know by another name. So by calling IT spac computing, they are just going like, oh, but apples doing IT now just .

guy twenty million I I understand it's not everybody. The x box one as of september twenty and twenty three has sold thirty three million units and there's not a person on earth, right? Do you know the next boxes? You know, like what are you talking about?

Because we've had video game councils for .

forty years and you've had V, R headsets for a decade.

and no one has tried .

them to twenty billion people six .

months after a atari came out. You think everybody on earth know what a game council was?

Maybe, I mean, they made the movie the wizard about first.

I just I think like A I think the way apple markets its products at the beginning has next to nothing to do with what those products ultimately are. If you go back to two thousand seven in the iphone and twenty ten and the ipad twenty fifteen and the apple watch lake, the way they talk about those products is nothing like what they became IT just isn't.

And so I think I I posted after you guys posted pictures just being saying basically, if apple can make these things cool aware in public, it'll be the marketing two of the century. And I got, I mean, dozens of replies from people being look up as not marketing that way. I want to shit what apple is marketing IT with.

Like I five minutes after that thing goes on sale, somebody is going to take this thing, you need a coffee shop and go on a run where and that's like, that's how this stuff works. You buy, you do whatever they hope you want with IT. And I like we have so few answers still about what you're going to do inside of this thing or how you use IT or what it's like or if it's a Better monitor than my monitor.

No, David, that's not true. We're gonna fruit.

Anga does see .

plus like a wealth of Operating .

fantastic.

Yeah I will say that I do you think they expect people to take IT out into the world just because when I was getting my demo, like one of the use cases they were not talking to me about, like you're gonna on a plane and you're still gonna able to interact with your students when he asks you for a whether you want to drink.

I'm dying to wear this thing on a plane. I've never wanted to do anything where I going to go on like a status run just to collect night, whatever horrible new system delta is doing now and where where this .

had set and we're going to to charge IT six times.

Ah so we should talk about that. This is the stuff that is legitimately knew and like honestly, like a little silly and like in best way. So you're in the r experience and we should just call that you're in a virtual environment inside the outside. And someone who walks up to you and you look at them, they just sort of fade interview and then you think .

it's really weird.

It's odd in this actually this a very funny moment in my demo that was like playing with this, right? Because i'm sitting on the couch of people around me, the apple people are me and I forget that they're all watching what i'm doing. So I just kept looking at them to make the fade interview.

And eventually one of them was just like looked up at me like, what are you? Because I was just staring at them. You like, are you are going to appear and they were like, and then they appeared, and they were looking at me.

how? How similar is IT? That moment in lord of the rings were gunned off, just slowly appears in, like from the Whitehouse in front .

of it's kind of like that like I just the thing that came to my mind was a kasper the friendly goes just very slowly, ghost of VR future coming into your perf. And it's very strange. I like I don't they are kind of not my transparent and just floating in the middle of a volcano.

It's it's weird. But then like viewing IT from the outside because we can see ourselves like that. I think the photo is the only like concept that I have of what I look like in that thing. But we did get to see another person using IT and get a look at eyesight. And that was just, I still processing what eyesight looks like.

the eyes appearing on the front of the display.

So the reason we able to do, do that, they ve create what's call a persona for you. This is your virtual head that will pear in face time calls. I know the only to described what IT is a. And then that virtual face, when you are in the headset and you start talking to someone, your eye show up on the front display of the headset.

It's fancy google ice.

like we get IT. It's weird. It's weak because it's obviously a render of eyes.

And it's like a render of your eyes yeah. So like when you blank IT blanks, when your eyes are open there.

did you try to make a eye contact with the person? Is giving the I have never stared in another person's eyes the way that I stared in that person's eyes. And they were virtualization. Like, are you looking at me because i'm looking at you.

It's, it's, it's weird. And like there is different cues that happen with eyesight like um if they're looking at you, you can tell they're looking at you. But if they're not looking at you, but they're google eyes are looking at you, you can kind of tell because there's like a blue flash that comes up and that's supposed to signal to you that they're not focusing on you.

They're doing other things within the headset. yes. And if they are fully immersed, you don't the eyes at all.

It's just like that shimmer this appear in all new .

ways to yeah but apple marketing .

says no ones going to take a to a baroni. No one's going to do that there .

one hundred percent going .

going to take IT. Here's specifically is going to take.

i'm going to be hammer in this headset, twenty four seven on the plane. I live in the sky now everybody just flying her own wasted. I'm dying to see two people in two headsets try to communicate to each other.

Like just think about the enormous amount of signal processing that needs to take place in order for those two people to make eye contact, right? You've got to put on two headsets. They both have to capture a virtual depiction of you. Then IT has to take a real time video of your eyes, process that into a three.

He moved your face display that on a front screen, which is then captured by a camera on the second headset, which then has to reminder that into reality to display to someone else size, which are in turn being captured, and display on a three rendering of that. And it's like you could just take the heads sets off. But i'm dying. I'm absolutely dying to make this happen and just feel like this was a lot of work.

So like if we were in the room and we were both wearing the vision pro and talking to each other, would we just like materialized in each other screen .

wearing the headset will be .

wearing the headset. And would I be seeing you wearing the headset with your eyesight on in my screen? That's just like breaking my brain .

already to be the digital avatar? R.

when I say these are tightly control, thirty minute minutes, what I mean is I asked to have that experience, and I was met with almost dead silence. No, that's just not a thing that working animals like. Okay, like I understand.

Like eventually I keeps saying this, eventually people are going to get them. We will get a review in IT, by hooker, by crook. And we will spend time with this thing asking some questions right now that fill the gap between everyone's imagination and reality and that gap I I just onna keep understand that get is magical.

But that's the fun part of like liking technology. You're like you can imagine what these things can do. And the reason I keep pointing at V, R headsets is like there's actually something you can ground these experiences with that exists today.

At scale, they might not be as good. But the gap between I have a quest pro sitting here, the gap between a quest process we did not give a good review to in the vision pro. That's the thing to evaluate.

It's not here's a magical new experience. Now that's a heads. You can look at the picture and you can say, okay, this is of the r heads that that what contains a lot of ideas about the future of computing, for sure. But IT very much has some of the limitations that are inherent to this form factor, like, for example, having to be on your head. Like that just a limitation of this form factor that is easily comparable to everything else is ever been in this form factor.

I think one other question I have is like with the experience like we're grounding IT in fewer headsets that we ve had, right? The thing is that most of the nine hundred thousand percent of my experiences in regular, regular vir headsets is gaming. And there was not a single gaming demo to be had in the vision pro.

So that's kind of one thing let's been in the back of my head is just like OK. The obvious use case for via is gaming in this point in time. But I don't think we've heard a lot about gaming in the vision, but we've heard about IT like as entertainment and some sort of productivity platform. But I am I really gonna do that well, met a bot.

all the good gaming companies, for sure. So so that's part of IT.

And then like .

we're getting fruit niner and I have no out, fruit lingers, going to have you with a virtual sod cutting the stuff yourself, right?

Like the pinching, i'm going to be pinching the itching.

pinching the kv, but that's that's what I because I was looking looking to that too because that's what I care about. No disrespect, everyone who wants to have all of their meetings in a room with everybody wearing a headset, I want to spend thirty five hundred dollars on a site gaming, he said, I don't, but .

it's going.

oh my god, going to go to argo. The best experience I love that .

we're getting away from the pruning ation of that product just a little bit every single time we say we get a little further away from IT verga, that's actually the verge had said it's the vega more and seen this .

is much I know the vision we got. We did get to see the decision class up. There are some other drama.

Netflix is not going to make an APP for this thing. That news broke this week. They're just like use the web brows.

That's fine. That's weird. That sounds like APP developers as a whole have not rushed to this platform, which is fine. The platform doesn't exist yet. I wouldn't expect a bunch of out of Operation.

We read the ship on day one, but there are some big questions about what this things for, how IT actually works. It's thirty five hundred dollars to get one. You have to go gift IT, either go to a store or update your prescription after scanning your face. Like there's a lot of steps between now in lots of people having them. And I I think there's just a lot of caution in the in the middle of all of that.

yeah. And I think the funny position apple is in right now, it's having to reckon with the fact that is apple and it's very hard for apple to quietly launch a product. But fundamentally, this is this is like a public data of a thing, right? Like apple does not think this is the final version of this is not what anyone believes is going to be where we're headed at overall in a decade.

And this is the kind of thing that like snape chat would call like the next rev of spectacular and still be like this is just a fun thing. We're running ing around with an apple because the apple has to come out and say, this is the future. We've solved everything. This is perfect and IT just puts you in a funny position as a marketing enterprise.

Here's a question i'll leave everyone think guess again, we none of these reviews stop calling him reviews. It's drive me. You people actually have review them, but it's whatever you trust, like whatever independent reviewer you trust, to spend a lot of time of something.

Give you an opinion, go trust them. I hope with us, you know, we try really heart. But whoever IT is the question is going to be in bedded in all those reviews is if apple thinks the future is a which tim cook has said over and over over again.

And then this is a simulator of an A R device, which is kind of the framework that just onna start with, right? This is a simulator of the thing they want to make, showing us all these VR experiences, having a light seal blocking you off from the real world and putting you on top of the volcano and adventurous tower. That's not A R, right? That is, those are V, R experiences.

And there is a real tension in this product between the things of V R headset is inherently good at, especially when you spend all the money on IT and the A R simulator might wish to be. And I I truly do not know how they will pick those paths because we just want to pair glasses or you just want to pair contact lenses, which you know is the end state that they have talked about in the past. Wow, you are not king me of the block off light and put everybody in adventurous power. So how do how do you get from here there if everything good about this product of this.

we are I mean, that's the same chAllenge that meta is facing, right? Who said the same thing is our future. This is what we're going.

All of this stuff is just a step on the way to A R. I think there are just I think meta just more open about this than than apple is. I think apple is in the exacting place.

Matter is with only their high and headsets gonna probably sell Better and perform Better. But oh, wise, I think ultimately, it's it's it's very similar space of we're not there yet. The technology doesn't exist.

The things we want to do to make A R cool isn't possible yet. So we're going to do the we're going to do a really good VR heads set because that's the way you start to Normalize this stuff that's going to be necessary for A R. But apples, much quieter about IT because they want us all to think that y've created a new form of computing when everybody knows they just made a really cool V.

R headset. Well, no, if you listen to David, no one on earth has ever heard of VR.

That's definitely what I said. That's right. Ultimately, he, this is the first VR had said anyone has ever tried on in the history of the universe. Apple actually invented the term V R. Just this.

No, I think ultimately what what all these company they seem to be saying is that VR is a feature of A R, right? Like those two things are not mutually exclusive and ultimately you want both. Uh, but the thing we can do right now is pretty good.

V, R. There's not much evidence yet that we can do pretty good A R. And I think, uh, I think that at this point, like metas prety open about that, uh, some of the other head dead makers are pretty open about that. And apple, just by virtue of the way the company Operates, IT is not allowed to say it's Better anything. So instead of going to keep imagining new future that IT has invented even as IT goes through the same stages as everybody.

I feel even though we had demos being played thing and uh, i'm just going to keep repeating this and we should move to talk about what's the apple watch in the grocery yeah because we do have you here, but we don't know anything yet. Even the people I know who warn the thing five times, they they don't know anything. It's we have to take these things outside of apples control.

We have to try to wear them on airplanes and behind truck wheels. Can imagine the cyber truck lipper in this thing. Do you think the cyber truck lipper moves too fast for revision Price cameras? I'm dying to know, uh, there is a whole other thing that happens on the product is actually released.

That is the important thing and that i'm just going to keep everybody focus on that because you you cannot know right now. And that to me is orderly, fascinating, like IT is kind of the best moment, because anything is possible and everyone can have all the dreams they want. And then you're going to put on the headset in your weird render eyes are going to look into the eyes of someone you love and black. And I still cool. And there's going to be an .

answer if you ask that question. No.

this is what I do with every piece of in the technology. Just look at someone directly in the eyes and say, am I still cool? That person is always backy in.

She's always like you never work. Very quickly, let's talk about what's one of the apple watch, which is somewhat simple. I guess it's again yeah and again.

it's band again. So you know, it's just been kind of a back and forth where this is really funny again because usually I think apple is so used to winning that is the fact that it's losing a lot against massimo right now is just kind of very fascinating to watch just because um so earlier this week, bloomberg was suggesting that you know, apple is going to drop the blood oxygen feature from the watches in order to get around the I T. C.

Ban and that basically U. S. Customs and borders was like, yeah, that works.

That's cool. That totally awesome. But that wasn't confirmed right at the beginning of this week.

And then yesterday, basically we heard that the federal appeals court was like, yeah, we're not gonna extend the stay on this ban so starting today, if I P M bands back on, you can't sell this stuff and then, you know, late last night abbot was like, ha ha, guess what? Guys were going to sell versions without the blood oxygen feature. So that's how we're getting around that.

Those one on sale today. So that's that's currently where we're out with the apple watch band. And it's just it's just like just pay, massimo, like you could just end this. You could .

licence this a deeply funny sea line of the story is that maxwell added a new board member this week .

and it's .

just fantastic he's going to .

make a tech. He since leaving disney, I I think he he's always ball, but he's got ten more aggressively able than a particular the photo of him that's like he's really mathematic war is like, oh, franois on the board now like that's very much to vine is pretty good. This is just the the ban is still temporary because apple has an appeal going and the hardware still there is just not accessible by the software. And the point is always been like, this is the .

least useful PC apps. Is the please useful as of right now, piece of tech in most smart watches, to be quite Frank, because like what you using blood oxygen for right and code, everyone was all on post accessors because you could tell whether you know you your lungs were working, whether they were breathing. But the thing that people have to realize is that these are not F, D, A cleared pull sox symmetry, right? Their witness gadgets.

You're taking a spot check at any given second as to how much blood oxygen you have in a second. You have to sit there for fifteen seconds still. You can't move for IT to tell you what this estimate of your blood oxygen and for the vast majority of people who are not uh having any kind of lung issues or whatever, if you're healthy, ninety nine point nine percent of the time is it's gonna over ninety five and you're going to find out I don't have to worry about anything.

The other use case for uh paulk matters within these um smart watches is to tell you whether you have breathing disturbance ces at night. So you're just gonna get average in the morning of what your S P O two level was. And for ninety nine percent of people who are healthy, you are going to see that it's either above ninety five percent you're good or it's gonna below that and you're gonna like, oh, i'm a side sleeper so it's messed up.

Therefore, I can't really trust that because if you are a side sleeper, IT is going to tell you that is lower like garmans tell me regularly that my S P O two level at night is ninety one percent, which is that that's like you should be going to the hospital if you start getting to those levels. So IT is not really all that. The only thing is like in the middle long term, these companies are looking at public limiters as a way to detect sleep opening.

The only company that remotely close is within and even they're not saying it's sleep opening, right? They're saying breathing disturbances, which may indicate at some point that you may be inclined to sleep after. So maybe you should go to a doctor. So it's it's really not that series of a feature right now. It's it's just .

not so keep buying the if you are planning to buy a watch, the apple watch, you can still .

just go buy IT. You can still go buy IT. It's fine. The s is not impacted.

And you know, it's really funny because when I I recommend products for most people, I say you're gona be fine with the S C. You, it's totally good for you. And there are they just have formal, they just want all the stuff.

It's call.

yeah, what if I need to light up in eighty disciple, sign in the middle .

woods as you .

can do that? Now I know I can't do that, but neither can the regular series nine is only the ultra that's gonna doing that. This I know you have the author, I know you have .

the auto, the us. Got to try the actual mm smart watch.

Yes, that are calling IT the freedom, which is just like this.

Yes.

it's called the freedom. It's forty six millimetres is a big chunky boy and they told me like abzar an times. So I have to say IT, it's an early a type IT might not look like this when IT comes out later this year.

But you know, it's kind of the they they were very much telling me that they're putting out a smart urge, smart watch. So this is a smart watch. It's gonna time as it's going to notifications.

It's going to work with your phone more fluently. It's going to have a Better APP experience. It's going to have health tracking experiences, which sounds an awful lot like an apple watch rate.

So they keep telling me that the reason they're putting out this watch is so that I can touch its sensor accuracy because all these companies be out here according to mamo with sensors that are not accurate, that are not giving you the the actual results that you can trust, but they're gona give you the health results that you can trust, and it's gonna smarter. So you know, you said there, you're like to, you're trying to kill apple, right? This is the apple watch killing.

And they like, no, this is about us. This is about us and our sensor accuracy. Y, and you know, of course they have to say that, but you just look at this thing and your leg, I see you are coming for the consumer wearable space, and they are not the only medical tech company doing that.

You know at T S, I saw mova. Mova is a medical tech company and they're coming out with the smart ring that is also got you know there in the last stages of F D A clearance for their particular sensors. Uh in the past, i've seen medical tech companies come out with all they had a blood pressure smart watch at the so it's it's not the first time that the medical community has been like we can try hardware, we can make that work. Yeah but it's it's just very interesting given the backdrop of the apple watch band that mass moves out here and lake, hey, we get hard work.

Speaking of rings, there is also the big samsung announced that they're gona do a smart ring. Now is that gonna as cool as is or a movado and everybody else 好 in the space？

Now well, the the cool thing about the galaxy ring is that they were like, hello, we're here and then there's a ring and it's spinning in space and their stars on IT and gorgeous and they're the video was sick.

If you ever seen the video, you should go watch IT a little like reveal video of IT is .

pretty bad as very cool and then they are like, and we will give you no details. I you know, I was looking at that was like, okay, but also this is clearly gonna be a sleep tracking or a competitor just because, you know, at C, S, and I wrote the story at C, S, there were a button ad of smart rings, more smart rings than i've ever seen in my life at the at all different Price points, at all different like feature sets.

So for samsung to come out here and be like, yeah, we're also getting on the smart ring train. I think this is here, the smart ing I really do. And you know it's one thing to go to C E S and save movado.

Nobody unless they read my work, nobody knows what movado is. Um if I say is zip and a maz fit or amaze, this budget thing that has basically replaced fitbit in for that market, they're coming out with a smart ring. People gonna like, okay, you wearable nerd, sure sure.

You're saying no, this episode of our chest, we have vargo. We got movado. I want to call out Shelly. It's a DIY smart home company where just was named little companies.

Yeah so you know like if I say that there's a bunch of small companies out here that are putting out smart rings, this is gonna be a thing. People are in me like OK v pa, pa. You're a wearyful nerd.

Of course you think that's onna happen so for sam saying to come out and be like, hi guys, we got a galaxy ring. I'm just super vindicated in my seat over here just going like, yes, see, I told you, I told you smart rings are gonna be a thing. This is a thing that people are really thinking about. And it's because there is a huge segment of the population that is really mad that they have to charge their smart watches if they want sleep tracking. So the obvious answer here is that you have a smart ring, which is gonna be more accurate for that anyway, because the bottom of your finger is more accurate for heart rate tracking, is more accurate for a blood xian tracking, and the battery is not to last longer than you're galaxy watched at last, maybe two days if you're really good about battery management. So I really think that this is their answer to that.

Also just run a market perspective. The wrist has been claimed.

Yes, you cannot replace .

the thing that on many people's rests. So you're like try fingers.

There's that. I am just curious because the one thing at the E. S.

That stood out to me was amazed ed fit with their ring was just like this is gonna a be a stand alone but also IT could be a companion wearable able for you're wearing able. So it's going to work with their smart watches. And I think of samsung really wants to be smart about IT.

They'll do the same. It'll be like, okay, this is your smart runing and it's gna work with your smart watch. We've spent the last two years working really.

really hard on the sweet track graph, the were able success formula. It's fifteen more axes just sprout IT off that I was diligent and I didn't I didn't say anything about the vision pro in the graph. But now we're like we got wearable ables on top of wearables that we need expense in this thing.

I'm telling you, this is where we're had IT because not everyone wants a wearable that's gonna, you know an extension of their phone, right? A lot of people who are going for the smart ring, they don't want the notifications. They don't want their kind of I think it's the next evolution of the fitness band, which is like R, I, P. It's gone. The smart watch .

has devoted IT. Completely dorky. Costs is going down the curve. T in in the the cost costs as low.

Which smart rings? We're up in the upper right depending on how they look and what or not. You have to refer to them as the galaxy ring, which pain, who you are. There are huge positive or huge negative.

like the one person who I saw online who got to see the actual prototype. It's supposedly very light, supposedly looks nice. We ll see the render IT looks like an honoring, but make IT galaxy.

So what we will see cause a lot of people will look at all ring and be like, oh, that looks really cool. And other people will be like, that is so chunk y get IT the f away from me. Absolutely not.

But you know, on the design front, I think smart rings are shown evolved a bit. I saw the heavy ring is very cool. IT has a little gap of top. So when you're bloated and you can't get your ring off, you can still come off. That's i'm just saying and samsung, that's right out there, you can copy that and make the galaxy ring next level.

So that's the galaxy ring A I gonna let you go. We go take a break fun way over in the first segment. That's I will be in today with me.

Thank you. So lunch, come on. We going to take great. We're going to back and not what the rest galaxy impact and the history for will be right back.

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Right back there's more same song to talk about ready, i'm ready. Phones ones. So fasting that seems I chose to do the galley event a week after CS.

It's faster. The google .

showed .

up the same, same event, more assertively, I guess, more loudly than they did. I see. Yes, yeah, yes.

that's true.

Just quite a lot of dynamics there, right? Samsung can attract a bunch attention without, yes, so makes sense. But IT, google put a lot of A A I features in the s twenty four this year, which is interesting.

Yeah empowered by the google gym. I right like the large language model that a lot of the generative stuff going to be doing is google g vi, which I don't think it's surprising. I know some people were like why I wasn't IT ChatGPT or or microsoft of microsoft is doing, and IT makes sense.

Google makes right. They work closely together. Why wouldn't they use the people who are already doing this stuff in their own phones?

Cool team also spates need each other to compete. Apple like neither. Neither one of them can beat apple on their own.

Theyve both tried and both have failed. And the way to do IT is together and it's working pretty well. But my big take away from this event is I am super, super barrier h on the future of the pixel. Now, yes, same. Google clearly believes samsung phones are the flagship android phones now, and that IT should treat them as such.

That was my vibe to.

I just want to point out that samsung strikes so little fear into apple's heart. The tim cook refuses to pronounce the name sentence correctly. What does he say? He says, samsung, every time, every time and I can't tell it's a this I can tell if he just doesn't know, just go listen to him say.

at some time you like .

this tin has caused no fear in this man's brain like you can do the eeg in your tin and nothing lights up.

He's like, like, like A A, an older southern person does they always like to be like, oh, I just forgot the name. Is that how you're supposed pronounce IT? And they never they refuse to learn.

Yeah, it's very good anyway but I agree with the David is that's my way of saying angry like they needs to be the combat letter ah and I think apple there's a lot betwen apple and google and the search deal and all the stuff but on their own, I think apples like what and that they are both still very reactive apple in that particular right. But we stop this twenty four because IT is meaningfully ahead of the iphone in certain ways. yeah. And this will .

almost certainly be the android phone of twenty twenty five to say that the second week of genuine, but I think we can fairly be the base.

I say this is the best show. Yeah.

they don't do the note. The note isn't kind of the big landmark anymore for them. IT is IT is this as series? And so we got the s twenty four, which is continues to be kind of the smallest one.

It's small at six point two and display like that's enormous. But and then there's the s twenty four plus, which is six point seven inch display, and then the s twenty four ultra, which can have the same size display. So IT is six point eight inches, yes, just a tiny, tiny, big figure.

Same with the batteries like the twenty four, like a four thousand million, and battery you like OK cool. And the s twenty four plus is forty nine hundred cool. And then just a little bit bigger, the s twenty four ultras, five thousand big, big cameras here. Like, I am curious for you guys. You guys geek out.

You particularly, I geek out about these cameras a lot more than I do, that the backside of the east twenty four and the east twenty four plus is about fifty mega soul wide camera with a twelve megaplex soul ultra and at ten megaplex soul three x optical zoom and thirty x space soon. So you're didn't kind of the same camera package in both of those. And then the s twenty four ultra is totally IT feels totally different. It's a two hundred big pixel, wide, same ultrawise, same telephone, but then a fifty megaplex el tel, a five x room instead of the space room, which like that feels cool.

And that's the ones that one of things the samsung said about that zoom camera is that because they took IT from the s 23 ultra， which had a ten x zoo m, they actually took IT down to five because they up the resolution so much. What seems on claimed, at least to Alice and Johnson, our team, is that you'll get more image quality at ten zoom just because you have so many more pixels supply with even though you're doing digital cropping.

And uh, digital zoom is not a thing, it's just cropping your photos. Everyone should know that. But the the theses at least is that you're still getting higher image quality just because it's capturing so much more late in the fifty mega pixel sensor. So I think that the math of that is fascinating and really current to see how that stacks up in reviews. But the cameras are nuts.

So I think there's a math and there's also just the caution to the wind AI processing that samsung student. So why would those so good? Because samsung make him look good. And I like your wish is my command. And should I make that what is moons everywhere .

was longer than .

I expected.

I really impressed with the I as like I should .

have like a little clock time. Well, come back that because there's one particular what is a photo rabbit hole that we should fall down, but there is a bunch of other eyes stuff are going on a there powered A I stuff .

ah there's a tony stuff like there's going all in on translation, which was for the longest time that was a really cool pixel feature, was that you could kind of translate things on the fly and in transcribe things as well. And and that's coming to to the samsung, the s twenty four line up.

And then unlike the image side of things, there's a lot of photo, anything that you're going be able to do now you're you can just like circle something and you should get rid of that kind of that photoshop time we see all the time. Now on the s true four, which is both cool in hilarious, because people were like using IT to circle out like water Marks. Yeah.

samsung own attempts to make, you know, things are I copy or generated was to put a water mark. And then you can tell the AI.

remove the water. Mark, it's beautiful. No notes, beautiful. Those were like the things that I was particularly excited about IT, just because I love to not have to open photoshop anymore. The the longer I can go without opening IT, the Better for me.

I was the one that really got me was the idea of being able to make a hundred and twenty frames per second slow motion video out of anything.

呃， this is the rabbit hole. That was this a rabbit hole? L.

this is the rabbit. L, I thought the rabbit hole was gonna the thing where you can, you can move the horizon on a photo and IT will fill the edges instead of having the crop the edges. When you take your like, you take correcting in the photo and you turn IT a little to correct the horizon, you're going have these empty spaces in the corners. The s twenty four will generates vely fill those corners to make IT. So feel like a rectangle yeah.

And I can do that photoshop like I definitely never, ever done that in photos. Yes.

we have had the, can you do this in photoshop? And does that negate all of this argument so many times? And I think that IT does, but we have to let me I have this .

no feeling in the edges is like whatever, because the edges are usually not the subject of your photo. So I am I lying about whether there's a little bit more water there, maybe mine, maybe i'm cares.

right? Little .

more is that this .

is so much .

more like blazer.

Yes, levels of outrage, this is not real time nuances has been developed also. So boring. I do think that's not a photo. It's just I trying to gin someone up in the in our age cycle over there's a lot of our water. Even I can't .

do that right.

I took fifty frames that I made all the people look at me in a way that never happened. Still dangerous territory to me. The the ultra slow motion, the most dangerous territory, because now this thing is generating entire frames that never happened, right?

Entire frames in creating a video, a slow motion video, which people are more attuned to thinking is real than that. You watch this back and slum. I'll see what really happened.

And every other frame is a lie, right? If you if you go from thirty frames a second to twenty frame sleep tion of this generation boy, that's that's a lot of frames that never happened. And and samsung, today we put a water market at IT and then you can be like of the water market like this is what I say.

This is the, what is a photo apocalyptic? This is more apocalyptic. What is a photo? shit.

I'm going to throw a rest of this because the TV companies, weren't they already doing a lot of this already?

Yeah, this is just what interpretation is. Yeah.

just making up friends and sticking them in. There only is now the people who are like, we're going to invent the moon way.

way really to there's a lot. There's a lot of different ways TV communities have done this. The dummy st. Way theyve done IT is like three, two pull downs where you have a refresh ate on TV of sixty hurts, whatever. And you're throwing twenty four frames for second content up there.

And you just double the frames where you do three frames of something, the two frames is a three, two pull that like, that's fine. You're just showing sort of double the frames to mature, refresh, ate. Then there is a little bit of the AI upscaling.

There's a occurred on tvs right now. Fine, that's weird. But there like there's something else happening there that is not this thing where you're like i'm onna capture this video or i'm going to insert any video of the sector or and IT will now create a slow motion video.

IT will actually generate outside of real time all the frames where's a TV is like i'm going to play back this video to you. And in real time and in a federal way, I will throw away the data when i'm done with IT, create new details or create frames in the middle like there are very few tvs in the market today. none. I think that you can just feed a video signal to, and I will create a slow motion video and claim that that is a correct.

So is the difference for you. One goes so fast and one goes slow.

The difference for me is this thing generates files that you can then pass around up his information, whether the TV is just doing different display tricks.

In theory, if you call frame by frame through one of these hundred and twenty fine second videos, you will land on a series of frames that never existed in the world.

Yeah, you will land on a series of moments that are entirely generated, right? And you will not be able to trust this moments.

And that trips over some line that lake IT takes the eyes from this photo, and eyes from this photo in the eyes from this photo, and puts them on the one photo, because that's where all the eyes looked best like. That at least, is those pixel were real and captured and existed in the world. Putting them together is one thing, but with this, you're actually creating something no pixel of which was captured in the rural.

Yes, zero percent of those pictures were captured. I just give you an example. The nfl playoffs IT a catch, right?

Like here's a real thing that like people are you at all the time? Was this a catch? And what do we do? We crop in with slow motion. And now we're like, we're going to let a computer decide whether that ball hit the ground somewhere in the middle .

and it's going have to guess, wear a football went, which is not following a Normal project. I feel like .

that's not gonna happen.

Why not? why? I am sorry, you football fans .

are gonna .

like this until .

ones to T, V, capture video of the replay, and I make this slower. And we're going to post that to whatever and argue about a bunch of fake images, of fake images also.

But there's going to be a ref who's going to have a very fancy camera who like that's wrong. Do I trust in?

Yes, that's like just one exam. I just it's the lowest takes example, although given the prevalent ence of sports bedding, also a very high stakes example. America, that's just one thing. It's an election year, right?

If I know trump s stumbles over symbol s biden stumbles over stem stairs or appears, assemble over some stairs and a bunch of people on other side want to take video that and then create a bunch of fake frames or IT. Looks like they stumbled more than they did, where they slow IT down. And as we know, things in slow motion APP way more dramatic than real time.

And you send that out and now have a slow motion video, many of the frames of which never happened. But that is the apocalypse, because people are inclined to trust slow motion video to say what really happened in here. There's nothing.

There's no all the stuff we thought about, content, authenticity, the whatever. Sounds like what you can just do IT no water Marks, no cryptography s and sure. And other other stuff I can just hear some my eye stuff just had like headless.

And when I keep saying that what is a photo polos is here, it's like, oh, it's this stuff yeah. Where actually the end state is no one trust any media because they all know how easy is to generate anything. And then now you're that's a really weird place.

Stand up. We're getting there really fast. I think too. I I ve just consistently ally been amazed by how quickly, just in my own life, people are adopting that sort of reflective skepticism of like, oh, this is a picture. It's probably fake.

And like, the burden of proof is now like proof that it's real, not proof that it's fake. It's very strange, right? This is a deep fake.

This just I think people are you all time .

IT feels bad but I also at the same time if IT means we never have to see the shark swimming in the highway water ever again oh.

you will that people aren't just can hit like on social media or there won't be be drifter like we can get to replace a pure skepticism where that stuff fit IT fine. But this stuff is already out there. I'll give you an example.

Uh and during a kl written has trial which he was in wisconsin, had attention to IT uh how written has uh his a lawyers argued that some of the photographic evidence could not be used. Uh because the iphone has A I in IT right I think we cover the solution. Um they they want the local prosecutors and show us concert were not ready for that.

Arment, surprise, surprise. And they were just like we're going exclude this evidence because we're not ready to have a bunch of experts come in here and say, what is a photo that's years ago? This happened years ago, and now we have samsung phones.

You can take any video and interpret frames that never happened. What are you going to do with that stuff? It's a corner. What are you going to do in that stuff when there is a dramatic amounts of money in sports books on the light and you want to clam that the rest are rigged like there? There's no responsibility here, like we are just past the point of no return with what is a photo because the answer for a sampling videos like these are not these are not videos you can trust, right? No.

no, I think you're right. And I I do think we're pretty clearly passed the point. No return on this. And I think we are have to figure out what the next thing is, right? Whether it's a watermark, whether it's the cypher graphics we are talking about, like we've been threatened to do the meta da episode for forever. And like that's the thing because IT were long past the thing where, uh, you can straight forward trust every single thing that you captured just because it's light projecting onto sensors, right? Like we will pass that for a long time and I think this strikes me as I like I take your point about the football example as I actually think is a really good one like a ball is moving unpredictably literally the camera is going to guess where I went and it's going to get IT wrong sometimes and that's bananas um but the I don't know this isn't write me is like an entirely new field of scary stuff in this way.

I kind of agree with me like and that IT does feel like that the the bar has been raised on like this are lowered. The bar is moved significantly in one direction or another depending on on your of you and that it's it's now so so much easier to make fake stuff with your phone like like this phone. The s twenty four 是 is put photoshop in your pocket in a way that I wasn't there before and photoshop is often been like that。

That's been a massive tool for this information in inception and and now anybody can go and they can circle something and get rid IT or they can film something and have a computer decide between Walkers. And that just wasn't possible before of this. So it's like really cool stuff. I'm really excited about IT from like a personal perspective as someone who likes to make stupid things horrified for IT, unlike a society. Yeah, I just think one .

of the dates we had run the pixel was there where the sort of is thresh hold is because, I think, and this is where the photoshop thing comes in, right? Just because you can do complicated things in photoshop, IT changes IT when IT is just a button you can press in the camera APP on that I think we all agree on. yes.

And the thing about this one is it's it's gonna be just complicated enough to do what you're describing my life that I think that might be the reason that others me less is like not a lady of to shoot this video. You're going to then have to uh run IT through this process to get you the hundred and twenty frames. For second thing, you have to find a frame that looks good, that was generated, which you usually want.

Cause if you shoot something at one hundred and twenty, each individual frame usually kind of looks. And then you're going to have to take that thing isolated out and then go do something with that and that that to me is like more steps than the pick somebody up off the bench, move them over there. That second thing actually alarms me more just because IT is so simple and straight forward to do that, people will do IT and a lot.

But that's spoken from someone who probably doesn't have like a thousand dollars is writing on the next screen by packers game.

I don't I don't gamble. I spent my money on museum. You know, there's much use money.

who who knows who those folks are. But but there is like like I think the incentives are low enough probably can be a low enough for a lot of folks, are high enough for a lot of folks that that little extra effort isn't gonna be a bigger impact for that. And we're seeing the same thing with deep fakes, right? Like deep fakes were something that we kind of could be like whatever.

It's hard to do, and it's got so much easier to do a deep fake. Now we do really good what that that that misinformation potential has really sky rock at IT and IT feels like the us. Twenty four brings us to that place in a beautiful package brought to you by samsung. That was my .

tim cook compression.

Yes.

I give i'm just trying .

to go listen to IT a other a little bit in bobs AI wise of the s in four line. Uh, google is bringing much of gin I model stuff to. You can have circle stuff to search the which is finally, finally used for circling.

I love that I called alison out like he tried to get SHE tried to like cheat IT she's like, ha tried a picture of like this fake player you're going to tell me it's real and it's like that's a fake player IT cost nine dollars so she's like rude.

Google lens is really good. Yeah it's it's a remarkable part of google search that I feel like doesn't get talked about as as an A I product in the way that that should. It's really good. And they now have the multi search suffer. You can take a picture and then ask a question about that picture. And like the example they gave us, like you take a picture of that game, important say, how do I play this game and it'll figure out that is backend and then use geri to tell you how to play back in.

That stuff is cool yeah and that's real.

Like future of search stuff. And that's where all the so the circle search comes like, oh, I see this bag in a video. This seems cool. Circle bag, send the google by the bag.

What's interesting to me, all the generic stuff here is other imaging which comes with the philosopher like sort of L M stuff, right? Like search for something it'll talk to you about that you can there's magic composes and all the stuff in here. The middle piece that samsung was kind of reaching for with bixby isn't not here, right, which is what we saw with the rabbit.

I want to see, yes, where it's like you will tell your phone to do something that just like does IT. And if you will recall, samsung attempted differentiation with bixby. It's voice assistant whose named sounds like a doggery shoes, was that you would be like set some settings and big, big girl, like set some settings for you in a way that syrian google assistant kind of can. And it's striking to me they have not closed the sleep on that phone because that's what you would expect because .

I I wasn't just rabbit. We saw this with like a lot of the TV companies were like we've got A I in our T V. Oh, really, what does he do? IT makes you your picture pretty here, figures, figures IT out and see you think same thing would do this. And kind of like, is, is there something happening with google and the relationship with google that's like kind of restricting that? Or is that just they have a tn there yet?

I think it's just harder work than people reckoned with. Like the idea that I could tell my phone to whatever turn on blue youth doesn't seem that hard, but IT is actually it's a leap beyond just understanding what blue tu is, right? You have to have a different kind of access to my system and a different kind of access to the tools and the stuff that I actually want to do.

And this was the problem with a lot of these things that that have come out first. The tech suck, but like they had IT built in the right direction, but IT wasn't very good. And now we have elms, which are much Better at understanding what you mean, but are not connected to the meddle in the same way.

And I think the next phase of this is support those two things together, right? Google has made a lot of noise about games I being built in the android more and more or time, and i'm i'm sure that's coming. But right now, german I is like built into google photos more than IT is built into android. And so the next phase of that is to just pull IT down a level in the stack, but that's just it's harder work then IT seems like IT to be but IT is sort of surprising that no one has really got there yet.

Yeah just haven't closer slips like and I want you to play this song is going to clicker and and spotify for you yeah, this is the device where that actually makes sense, the rabbit, and then capture a lot of imagination. But that's still what IT is doing.

Yeah, well, right.

What if I just still had my pig screen and great camera, and IT could still do that for me? Yeah, i'm eager to see that work close. Okay, we should take a break. We are just, well, just it's just ridiculous. This week, we're not taking great going to come back for waiting around and then we're going to go for another, another hours.

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Reback time for lightning around. Uh, I will tell you, snag the obscured refrigerator company that friends called that last week did not sponsor us this week. So now we're just going to name some other companies as we go.

I'm going all in on iwa, which was like a stereo company.

I think .

around more that's .

the Sunny .

subbrand yeah do they get fun off?

I don't have they spun off, but they were they had a big presence at CS and lean and I both were like they're still around. That was my first stereo is a big moment as well. Well.

i've now click on a button label. I will. Legacy, oh, they spent off from SONY h literally we click on eyes. Legacy says our company has no association with SONY corporate.

So so you guys like.

come on, get your name out there. Hit us up. Yeah.

waiting around sponsored by IT could be you I A very precious about disclosure and all that, everything. But this I will t in the step in the lights will salita one first, come first service cranes.

What's your a lighting around? Uh, so CNN is had a major restructuring this week. And Normally that doesn't feel like a verge testing, but a lot of this this restructuring was because they realized people use their phones a lot and they're not watching cable TV as much, and that's a verging thing.

Uh, so they are combining all the different news apparatuses or news Operations. So that means their digital Operation, their T V Operation and there so a theyre ming Operation are all gonna combined into one big mega Operation and they are going have to spit off of like what are the other places we can advance ourselves. And also we ve got to figure out the phone that seems really important.

You should put see in an on phones, it's pretty good.

It's just bungling and unbundling them give a few years in every newsroom is gna start to be like we need specific teams for each of these. What's our vision pro strategy like that? We're headed IT back down that road before too long, i'm sure of IT.

Um so there there is some context here. One of reason that CNN is always a verge story is that the modern CNN is wed by one of brother's discovery. The company came into existence from the merger of Warner brothers and discovery surprise. Uh, one of brothers, uh, sold to discovery by eighty and T, A company that used to own CNN that was cool.

They could be handled on the phones.

The eighteen t bought all of Warner brothers, uh, in a pitch that they described as, quote, a vision deal and a the vision was that they would really garbage morning brother's ABS on to migration, red for and t source. This is true. I'm not making this up.

Yeah, anyway, they sold IT to they sold. They got conned into making a gray scale for three justice league by insects niter. They saw the whole kitten kabo to to to discovery who installed sky chis licked, uh, who was first to revitalize ze CNN? I would say that was a disaster, but now they have a new guy, mark thomson, who used see the city of the new or times see you were the big digital translation. He hire another executive from the times and they're going to now they're going to figure .

out phones yeah it's not like super encouraging that in his memo announcing this figure, structuring their need to focus on phones was, he said, I don't think anyone's yet cracked the code on how that translate tes truly translate tes to new to a great news experience. That's not kind of what you want to hear from the guy who's like we're going to fix things with phones.

But he seems still also recognized that he hasn't figured that out yet working on that. So I don't know. I like the honesty. I appreciate the honesty personally.

I am excited like giving what he did with the new york times is APP that's that's onest one of my favorite APP that I used on my phone pretty bit daily. I'm willing to to see what happens. I'm i'm curious CNN .

is wear because CNN is on one hand wildly successful digitally like CNN 点 com。 However big you think IT is, is much bigger than that. The N N 点 com is huge。 But IT doesn't feel sort of crucial in the way that some other new sources feel crucial like the near time is not a really good job of making itself like central to the universe. And I think if i'm more time.

and that's probably what they don't need to know, that you feel that and they're fight, they're doing fine, the own.

But and I think the idea that they feel like no one has cracked mobile devices is really interesting. I also kind of feel like that's true everybody. I just build apps and you can have good apps. And push notifications are the best thing anybody has found to get people in.

But like, I now get a push notification from new york times, every time anyone on earth dies, IT feels like, and that we're just in this weird place of, like, what is the push? What is the poll? What is the experience was to look like? Is IT just a list of articles when ever I open the act?

Like, I think it's cool that they're coming at this from the idea that no one has solved this. And the answer is not just like send more push notifications so people open our APP more often. I don't know what the answer is either, but I think they'll be fun to watch.

I mean, if they improving what ap news does, where IT since you a push notification and then you click on and we don't have a story up yet, here's our front pay perfect, my favorite experience with a push notification produce. I'll be happy like the bar is kind of. So I think if they put some thought to have to do something cool .

yeah and especially CNN has gone to this weird thing where there was CNN plus, where the streaming service that died when the Warner brothers discovery thing happened.

What was IT was round for like a couple was, remember a week was I was like a week and then I got love was like, this is stupid and got of IT. And then now they're seeing in max, which is on max, the streaming channel. And IT has all the things that where a CNN plus was like, we think you'll really like the CNN brand .

and we're not onna Carry anything over from the change. Had a boot club CNN plus.

I was going to see a little like we're gonna put like CNN on your TV. And when I appreciate that as someone who has that's fine.

good. But I think the idea of like we're just onna stream a cable channel to your phone and that'll do IT is also not the answer. And I think every content company is going to have to come up with some version of that answer and they're having to do IT very quickly.

So I think tiktok CNN coming at this from, like, we are a giant's digital presence. How do we turn that into T, V, money is going to be really interesting. And I have no idea what that looks like.

Yeah, David, what's your .

lightning around a mine is so apple and epic have been fighting for a very long time. The supreme court just declined to hear IT, I promise rock and sucked by this full long time. So basically what happened is that that for all intents of purposes is now over. Uh, apple has to allow developers to link to other places that people can pay for apps. But what apple did is put in rules that say even if you do that, we're now going to collect twenty seven percent of what people buy when they click on the link and go pay you somewhere else instead of thirty percent and so all the people who are mad about apples thirty percent tax are now predictably, just as mad about apples twenty seven percent tax when you pay for something else and it's gone into this fascinating place for its like apple has always said, we don't think this is just a payment processing thing. We think you're paying a thirty percent for all of the other things that we provide and all the other people who make these .

apps at this point, it's you're you're paying the money for the right to have an application on their phone.

Yeah not that that's that's basically right. And apple would not take quite like that, but that's basically the argument.

It's our they feel very strongly surfer. But all these companies.

from epic to spotify to you know everybody else in this coalition for fairness match shock com and all these other folks, they are equally posed. And so we're just going to have the same fight again with slightly different rules, which is now instead of paying in an APP and giving up thirty percent, you pay on the web in an APP and you pay twenty seven percent. And that is just it's just gonna start this whole fight all over again. And I think it's fascinating.

Oh yeah. So epic is going just to walk the procedural nightmare here. There was the trial which recovered apple one. Almost all of the claims, except the one california state law claim that basically made their anti steering provision illegal.

The thing where you can tell anyone else that you can go by stuff elsewhere, apple appeal, that I could appeal, that they got all the way to appealing the supreme court. We said, no, we don't want to. We've got other things in our minds. Um the supreme court later gentman h that means the cases over.

And this one ruling that apple loss you cannot have, the center steering provision exists in apple is basically doing what you would call malicious complaints, right? They have found a way to comply with a letter of the law and absolutely not a spirit by doing this twenty seven or something. If any purchase happens on the way, within seven days of someone clicking on that link, you have to audit IT. It's really it's crazy. So epic is mad and they have said there gonna go back to the trial court and say, this is not what you intended to have apron like this cannot be the outcome you anticipated .

when you are that ruling and malicious compliance is exactly the delete. It's so pretty IT is ridiculous.

Look, I I get that there's like lots of money involved and the apple is like doing they're doing in some that is dangerous for the reputation. Yeah we have to appreciate with with these games. And I H there's something dangers that ending .

like the whole hey thing that became A A two summers ago is that was a mini fiasco again, this time because apple rejected his calendar APP. Uh, there have been rumbling that an anti trust case against apple is coming sooner rather than later this year. Like the the the smoke is pretty ugly when IT comes to the apple versus developers fight at this moment of time.

Yep, see.

And it's going to get there. We're going to a lot more .

fairly quickly at which is not great when you have a giant new totally like. Architecture that you're trying to get people to adopt yeah and develop for probably not the best time to piss off all your developers embrace.

The arguments from central government has always been, yes, the phone is very available.

We are the ones you made IT available yeah like there's .

that for that is a real way that they make the phone will see. Uh, OK mine is I just want to call out h out sea interviewed mark zuckerberg, the site that published literally today we we are setting down to tape this episode zh works thing is a Better as pivoting to building agi, our official general intelligence. Uh, he's doing that pretty obviously to make sure that meta can compete for talent.

This is like the thing that all these companies are thinking about. All the hardest talent in the industry is going to go build asia eyes somewhere. The other and matter wants me in the game and I just wanted call this out um he part of their cell is he's like we have more in video h one hundred ds than anyone. They have three hundred and forty thousand and video s, and I just think IT is incredible. We have arrived a place where the C E, O of a comic matter is like, we have more use anyone else, you should come work here.

I think that with my G P, I think that's pretty good.

I just there's a part of me it's like that's the funny is part of this whole story is part of the pitch is like they've got we've got .

more we got so many gp use in this office. You come right over.

yeah, uh, pretty good. Uh, but you should be the whole thing there is alex, right, fully pushed back. He said, look, you just change the name the company Better. Uh, this docker is answer to this is like it's not the huge change is that in the virtual world to connect t of the people maybe you will be talking to in virtual characters. You can not read .

yourself what you need to talk to somebody in there. And there's a lot of people yes.

here's a quote. I don't know how to more unequal state that were continuing to focus reality labs, the metaverse. We're still spending fifteen billion dollars a year on IT ah in lazarre seas of future when the virtual words are generated by AI and fill with A I characters and accompany real people.

So ready player .

one that tracks for me. I really don't think that is a justification from zc a rec a mean, it's a small one.

But I don't think I don't think the company saying warning on the metaverse and then saying we're in on A I means like a hundred native degree pivot, uh, you to make the metaverse work is going to require a huge amount of really sophisticated A I I don't know that involves tom pretty playing a character who will talk with me in a messaging APP. But di, uh, again, I think I think i've been saying a lot is like we need more terms than just A I. We call everything AI and actually AI is a million different things. And um having a lot of GPU you can use to do stuff is going to be pretty useful in the metaverse.

I'm going to start putting how many gp as we have in our there's like five is so good, fourteen forty p uh, you're gonna IT. Uh, I agree. I just think the idea that the top line is not solar metaverse is really interesting. Oh yeah, to build the great metaverse, we need to build basically agi is a coherent story. We're doing IT now is like there's a little bit totally and he is definitely saying .

where N A I company that is also building the metaverse, not we're a metaverse company that is building A I in order to get there. And that's like that's the thing you say because the metaphor is has been a real bad .

for your stock rice or the last laws and because apples about to put out the vision problem. Yes, uh, which IT feels like the next turn, right? IT, where is more? If you thought we talk to with the vision pro too much today, just wait until we actually get one. Yeah and we surround themselves with I wa speakers and smug refrigerators .

yeah when does this thing on sale?

February second a february second.

At some point in the near future, we're going to have a lot more set this. And i'm sorry in advance.

please send us a email if you think people have heard of VR headsets before, you can address them to David at the verge 点 com。 And we would love to know a virtuous the .

verge of I would respond with realized credit numbers, you can buy addition.

I be great if someone wants to stand in line for you. Be amazing. A that's IT.

We have quite a lot of right next week, just a lot going on. The years fully kicked off. So we got to this one up. But we back next week, we will see IT. That's where.

And that's IT for the verge cast this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one.

The verge cast is the production of the virgin box media podcast network. Our show is produced by hand rer marino and leon James. That's IT. We'll see you next week.

Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, italian, from decoder with new IP top, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What part are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with this acquisition this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with new life presented by strike. You can listen to decoder wherever you get your podcast.