E900 - Debating w/ Heather McDonald, LIB w/ Sara, Temptation Island w/ Mark Walberg, Bachelor WTA, & RHOBH
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cat toy pretty litter dot com slash v i a l l terms and conditions apply see site for details what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files reality recap edition happy 900 didn't know that it was our 900th episode when i woke up today you didn't nope no idea i did i did not

Yay for us. 900 episodes. That's crazy. That's crazy. When I say another exciting episode of The Vov Vowsing, we do have a jam packed episode for you today. Super excited about it. Heather McDonald will be joining us briefly to get into all sorts of headlines. We'll talk a little Bev Hills housewives with her. And then we have Mark Wahlberg.

The more famous Mark Wahlberg from the hit show Temptation Island that just debuted yesterday on Netflix. I gotta tell you guys, it's such a good show. Oh my god, it's crazy. Why have we been sleeping on this show? Is it just like it hasn't had a proper home? I didn't even realize it was on Peacock. Oh, I didn't realize that either. No, I didn't either. No. It was. I think there was just too much. I was on...

It was on USA for a while. It was just too much on Peacock for us to also find a new... Well, Netflix, you had Too Hot to Handle, Perfect Match, all these dating shows, Love Island, that it's like, when do we have time? And lo and behold, the blueprint of where all of these shows came from, the original, Temptation Island. It makes sense for Netflix more than Peacock to me.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm optimistic. I hope that it blows up. For some reason, I feel like with Peacock, things can get sometimes lost in the shuffle. Not that Netflix doesn't have what seems to be like an unlimited inventory of shows and TV shows, but their reality love competition shows seem to always...

on some level. It's Love Island, but I think I'm, I love Peacock. It's one of my go-to platforms, but it's like, because it has all of my Bravo stuff. Sure, yeah. You know, like I'm not really going in there being like, hmm, what's the Peacock original? It's new, yeah. It is so good. So good. It's been around for almost, I mean, as long as The Bachelor was around. And most people like have just been, like myself, have been sleeping on it. I think so.

I think I was too young when it originally came out, too. So I didn't understand the concept because I thought it was like married couples are like going to get tempted. I didn't realize like it was like the couple dynamic and even the way that they do things. It's just like, I don't know. It's so good. I can't explain it. Anyways, it's out on Netflix. It came out.

Wednesday, yesterday. I think all 10 episodes are out, so they're not releasing it in batches or anything like that. So binge over the weekend, because we'll be talking about it next week. It's pretty juicy. And we'll also be talking about it later this episode. We're interviewing its host, Mark Wahlberg. And by the way, like...

Very impressed with Mark. This man is actually listening. He gives good advice. He gives good advice. You know? He should make them pay for sessions. Like, he's really therapizing. It's great. Like, you know, as someone who someday would love to host some sort of rally TV competition show, like,

You taking notes? Well, sure. But also it's just like, you know, I love giving advice, the ask Nick element, but like the truth is like, for example, bachelor, like partly it's just like, I don't know, you know, it's like a chicken before the egg question. Like, does the show not allow it because they don't want to make the host more of a part of the show? Or is it just like the hosts aren't capable, so they don't ask the host to do it kind of question, you know? And Mark Wahlberg certainly seems capable of,

And I love to see how they utilize them. It's not even that, it's not like it's a whole part of the show. It's just like when he does talk to him, he's actually saying things. Was it like historically with Jesse and Chris, it was always like, you know, tell me about your feelings and be like, all right, well, good luck. You know, like throw them to the wall. That was like, well, what, what the fuck? Uh-huh. Like, I thought you were going to help me out here. Like, I thought you were going to offer me some guidance. Yeah.

That never really happens on The Bachelor. But anyways, check out Temptation Island if you haven't already. Tell All was last night. Also coming up in this episode, Sarah from Love is Blind. Oh,

We have some burning questions for Sarah. Did they really talk about whether they were going to say I do or I don't before they actually got to the altar? Is she dating Joey? Speculation online about a potential budding romance between her and Joey. Have you seen this? I was scared to click it this morning. Turns out Joey from Love is Blind, Minnesota auditioned for The Bachelor.

And it's unhinged. And that's like out there publicly? I don't know where this got found out. Hmm. Yeah. She put it on YouTube and was like, I hope a Bachelor producer finds this. I guess. And then, I don't know, you guys maybe saw this, but I finally got to see Ben, his YouTube business card. Oh.

Why do people have business cards? It's rough. Yeah. Well, that was, it was years ago. It definitely isn't like currently, but it might've been like when business cards were popping. When were business cards popping? There was a time in my life when I wanted a business card. Look at this business card.

Wow. When I was in real estate, I had to get business cards. It looks like he's selling houses. It's a form of professionalism. I think since Linktree happened, the need for a business card has kind of become irrelevant. QR codes? Linktree. Linktree, you know when you're on someone's Instagram profile, it's like link in bio. You hit it, you get everything you need. Well, people do that when they have an OnlyFans because you can't put the OnlyFans link in your bio anymore. So you have to put it in the Linktree. But the Linktree is in your bio. Oh.

Oh, so like real estate agents and OnlyFan models are using Linktree? Yeah. It's the thing that binds everyone together. If you were to kill me, how would you kill me?

I would never kill you. But like, I don't even have like a way off the top of my head. Um, probably poison. And would you reach out to an incarcerated inmate? I don't think I would do that. Um, that feels, you know, good plan, right? Well, it feels like a, a lot of work, you know, like you got to find the inmate, then you got to like communicate with the inmate poison. It's like, there's just, come on, you know, uh,

The host? Who is this person, Justin? Ghost Adventures. Ghost Adventures? Y'all don't remember that show? Yeah, but it's... So it's the Ghost Adventures wife was arrested for allegedly hiring a hitman to kill him instead of just getting a divorce. I don't know. I feel like we could probably take allegedly out of this.

It's the evidence is damning. She wasn't allegedly arrested. She was arrested. Let's go through the facts. So just people here, because she is denying some of this. So Victoria Goodwin was charged last week with solicitation to commit murder and conspiracy to commit murder after allegedly planning to kill her husband for almost three years while he was filming the show. We had the court documents in. Victoria had been communicating with a prison inmate in Florida since October 2024 about wanting to get out of her marriage, according to a police report obtained by the outlet.

This is what she said. Am I a bad person? Because I chose to end his existence, not divorce, she allegedly wrote in one message. Police also uncovered messages in which Victoria reportedly provided information about Aaron's location and ghost adventures filming while scheduling in California to send a hitman after him. Wasn't the hitman in jail, though? No, no, no. She reached out to someone in jail to find a hitman. It's conspiracy. This sounds like the movie Terrible Bosses.

Where they're like, who do you find to kill someone? So they went to where they thought criminals would be. Well, so Victoria allegedly set aside $11,515 to pay the hitman with an upfront payment of $2,500 per authorities. What a random number. It's remarkably cheap to

kill someone. I mean, obviously the hitman wasn't that good. No, I get it. I guess what is the going rate? Her plan was uncovered. However, when correctional officers confiscated the inmate's phone as contraband in it, police found a message between the prisoner and the hitman that read he's asleep right now in the hotel room. I need to know what's going on. Can I get an update? Was it done? It is unclear, though, what happened with the hitman or how the alleged plot was hindered.

When questioned by police, Victoria admitted she and Aaron were having marital problems but insisted she never wanted to kill him. She alleged she was merely fantasizing about not having a husband and did not remember sending the messages. As for the money, she claimed she thought it would be used for cell phones, whatever that means. She was just giving people money so that they could get the new iPhone 16 plus Pro Max. Yeah.

$2,000? $11,000. What? But I'm saying it was a $2,500 upfront payment. Well, to cap it off, according to Clark County Jail Records, Victoria was arrested in Nevada last Thursday and is being held on a $100,000 bond. She's set to appear before a judge Tuesday morning, so next week. You know who also was arrested? Oh, my God. Former bachelorette. What's her name? Deanna Pappas. Yeah. Who? Well, she was a bachelorette a long time ago. And she's arrested, too? I guess. I guess.

What happened, Leo? She was arrested after an altercation with her ex-husband. According to Pappas, the police told her that Stephen accused her of being drunk and was pressing charges against her for domestic violence. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge and she was released the same day on a $20,000 bond. And her court date is set for March 20th. Wow. Well, Zach Bryan has a girlfriend. Zach Bryan has a new girlfriend. Hannah Duncan. He posted a picture on Tuesday with an

australian model on a beach looking at the waves as the sun rose did he tag her he did because the captain said nothing like a 6 a.m half marathon a e h h question mark at canada well we know where they met definitely on rio yeah yeah not on the beach

Maybe, you know, she's from Australia. Do you often just like walk on a beach and meet a beautiful young Australian model? That's never happened to me. But I'm also not Zach Ryan. You know, he was probably in Australia playing a show with scouring Raya, had a little match session. Yeah. He's like in town. Yeah. I mean, I'm in your city. Yeah. In your city. I mean, fast moving fast.

Do you think she, like, what's her state of mind, do you think, going in? Maybe she doesn't know about it. Come on. I don't know. Maybe she's like, I don't know. I met this guy. He's really nice. He's charming. He's this. And then you have Zach being like, here's my side of the story. And she's like, you know what? Like, I have you in front of me. I don't have. But what happens when he needs to be inspired? I mean, I wish nothing terrible on her. I hope that he's, like, learned from his mistakes with Brianna and, like, doesn't do that.

behavior anymore going forward so maybe he opened up to her about like how he's learned and he's gotten help and he's better and he's but don't you mean for a rock i mean six months isn't it's a decent amount of time but for like a rock star who just got out of a very public breakup it it it really is giving moving on incredibly fast i think that's pretty slow six months but a post him posting it you know like he could be he doesn't give a fuck

Like, he's not the one who's going to be like, oh, I need to, like, hide this relationship for privacy reasons. There's a difference between hiding it and posting and tagging her. You know what I'm saying? There's a difference between, like, making sure we never are seen together versus being like, in case you need to find my new girlfriend, tag. You know, like, it's an aggressive move. It could be a thing of he's like, you know, people are going to speculate anyway. It might as well just come from, like, one of the people within the relationship. I mean, as a rock star...

he could be a rock country country well i hear he takes offense to that but as a good he wasn't right at the day of the breakup so yeah he definitely doesn't give a fuck but it's like it's moot and i think brianna's been like seen with guys and she was like making out with west and wherever the fuck that was allegedly allegedly like so i think they're both moving on and

he's he clearly doesn't give a fuck we've seen that all along so why start now you know okay well I will say during the women tell all I did feel a little vindicated why because Carolina and Rose they kind of touched on the whole topic and it was kind of what I said was that Carolina wanted to hear everything was asking her all about like so what's going on with you and Grant what's going on your relationship they were laughing having a good time about it that

that Rose was actually completely blindsided that Carolina took the stance that Rose was trying to rub something in her face when it was actually just a fun little girl chat while we're getting ready. So Rose felt very interrogated. Yeah. She didn't feel interrogated. She was just saying we were just having a fun girl chat. She handled it well with Grant because they did a whole little mirror mirror on the wall. Did Grant actually tell...

or did like tell Rose the situation. And Rose was like, look, I said it in the conversation. It was a misunderstanding. Grant was like, I told you something that implied that that's not what I meant. So they both were just like, that is what it is. So it wasn't like interrogation. Leah, why do you, why are you team Carolina? I'm, I'm team Carolina. I'm sorry. I think that the conversation between Rose and Grant was that Grant

Grant never said while I was dancing with Carolina. And I think whatever Rose said to Carolina in this conversation that none of us have seen clearly made Carolina feel a certain type of way that she needed to bring it to Grant. And we did see her

her tell Grant that she didn't want to name names. She didn't name Rose. He just extrapolated from what she said that it was Rose and then he confronted her. Weren't you team Rose like die hard when this was happening? Like weren't you and Sierra like literally fuck Carolina? This is... Roll the flashbacks. Yeah, wasn't I arguing with you? Yeah. Roll the tapes. How have you switched so quickly? I just I don't like seeing everybody kind of like... Gang up. And I'm definitely in the minority here. I just think that Carolina like

She wasn't trying to be the villain. She wasn't trying to upset the women. And it almost did feel to me as a viewer like anything she did...

pissed everyone off and she was highly emotional and she was in her feelings and she was just trying to navigate like it's a hard situation to be in to watch your somebody who you like dating a bunch of other people and then she has dina like telling her well you need to be you know timing the amount of time that you're with grant and keep us in mind when you're having time with him while we're on a group date and she's just like god i can't do anything right and then like to me i'm

The moments in the castle where Dina's kind of like following Carolina around, it was a little bit like we were alone. I agree to some extent where I'm like Carolina explaining like how she felt throughout. I was like, yes, I understand why your actions come off the way that they do. I don't think anybody intentionally goes into anything where they're being filmed and being like, I want to be the villain unless you're, I guess, Spencer Pratt.

So I'm like, in that, I agree. But I was like, they definitely clarified that it was a friendly conversation going on between the two of them. And also that I'm like...

The way that Carolina is making it out as if like Dina was like following her around. The whole point that they were also trying to emphasize to Carolina was you had a rose. You going and taking all of this extra time was the disrespect because you didn't need the time, but you still made every group date about yourself. So I'm like, I also understand Dina being like, it's kind of fucked up because you have the insurance that you need.

Also, Carolina loves to downplay stuff the whole time. She's like, I'm going to take accountability. I said, sorry. I said, sorry. And then you have Rose. And I think it was maybe someone else that clocked it. I was like, this whole time you're saying, I'm sorry you felt that way. But like, I'm not saying I'm sorry I did that. Exactly. I think they're both kind of true because I think Carolina is clearly messy. Yeah. I mean, she just is. Like everything about what she does seems to be messy and a little bit dramatic and

And she seems to be easily like position herself as a victim. That being said, like Leah is right though. Regardless of how messy Carolina is like prioritizing your time with the lead while other people are prioritizing how much time someone else got. Like I'll always side with the person prioritizing themselves. And I agree with that. And Dina,

like took when like for someone who went as far as dina did who didn't even as we now you know now dina has admitted that it was her who didn't allow her family to come like i don't know if dina's protecting her family falling on the sword or maybe that's the truth but like she's top four she decided not to bring her family and she's waste she's spending most of her time talking about the actions of carolina you know it's just like yes you could do that that's one move but it's

It's just kind of a loser mentality. I mean, they both lost. Where she lost me was when she said, when she told Carolina, like, you need to, like, if Grant pulled you aside to have more time, like, you need to be thinking about us and, like, cut it short.

That's where Dina lost me. And I'm just like, that's crazy to say. I see Leah's point. What are these bachelorette rumors? Are they still going around? I see Leah's point too and I don't know where she is. I love Leah. Who's Leah? Oh my God. Leah's point about Carolina. I'm team Dina, just not her glasses. Dinah. Dinah. Dinah.

The other thing that did come up between Dina and Carolina was that I guess after filming went down, they had this whole social media back and forth where Dina posted a video where she said, well, in the text it said, when you defend the one person nobody else would just to get played the next week. To which Carolina then posted on her social media, seeing someone use this sound as if I don't have a screenshot of our conversation as evidence.

To which Dina replied, I tease next week's preview and she responds with dot, dot, dot, a threat? Question mark. Interesting tactic, but on brand, I guess. So Dina is saying that she was just simply teasing the next episode and then Carolina took it too far after that.

Again, sorry. She definitely was not teasing. She was teasing. She could have been messy, but she was teasing. That one I... Both are true, but her intention, I don't think her big priority was giving ABC a solid.

You know, I agree with that. I was like her explanation of it was very much like I just innocently was just teasing the next episode. I had no idea that you would take it that far, let alone threaten to show text messages. And like listening to way you're describing that, if you would have without names being like who said this in this way, I would be like, oh, that's so Carolina. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because that's giving messy to do one thing that's so obvious and then pretend that.

that you have no idea what they're talking about. You knew. You know? You knew. You were throwing shade. The lawyer, Dina? Come on, Dina. Right, right. She looked like a lawyer in those glasses. To sum up my point, and the reason that I am taking Carolina's side here is that I'm not saying that Carolina's not messy. I think that she is messy. I think that in the whole drama with Rose, she was being messy by bringing it to Grant. Absolutely. Absolutely.

However, I think that to say that Dina's not also being messy is unfair. Like you can't just say that Carolina has been the messy one this whole season. I also think Dina has to take some accountability in her messiness. It was embarrassing for Carolina that every time someone like dissed her, the crowd went wild and like applauded. And I was like, Oh,

Okay, we know who stands for Carolina and anybody else. No, but that's the thing. That's the producer. You know, that's the crowd. Producers holding the signs being like, applause. Yeah. There's also editing in that too. They do like fake applauses for those types of shows and insert the applause.

and the booze whenever they want the facial expressions America's Got Talent does this too to be fair I was like sometimes while I was watching it I was like I don't know which point you're applauding because it would be like somebody makes a point somebody's already making a point in the beginning and people started clapping and I was like are you clapping for Carolina are you clapping for Sarah Carolina started clapping too like Carolina was being sassy and she's like you guys are all like clapping at me being the villain I'm gonna clap with you so it was like okay

Girl, get off the stage. And are there people still speculating on who is supposed to be the Bachelorette? Or is that old news? I mean, I've seen clips resurface. Leia knows the players more, but I think it's Rachel Reckia who had said on the podcast, what was it, Almost Famous, that like... Well, that was a while ago, wasn't it? Or was it...

Or no. It was. I saw a clip this morning basically saying that the plan for this upcoming season of Bachelorette was that there was four people they were thinking of, two from Grant's season, two from old seasons, and that allegedly someone who's big in the Bachelor franchise producing it was like, if it's not Maria, then we're not going to do it at all. We need ratings. So they couldn't get Maria, allegedly. I don't think that's... I'm fairly confident that last part's not true. I know one of the people they were seriously looking at

And it would have been way. It would have been awesome. Yeah. It would have been crazy.

It was me. It was Justin. Cool. Solved it. Give me three guesses. Let me guess. We're not going to tell you. Let me guess. You can guess. But like, it would have been awesome. It would have been amazing. It was from an older season. And when I found out, I was really disappointed. They decided not to move forward with it. Yeah. You want to guess? If I guess one time and I get it right, will you confirm or deny? No. Well then, what's the fun in that? We can still guess. Okay. Let me think on it.

I really want to think on it. Like you need time? Three guesses. Well, while T thinks about it, Heather McDonald is here and up next. Let's face it, grocery shopping for your kids these days often feels like you're swimming through a sea of not so great options. And we certainly know the feeling now that we have our beautiful baby river at home. Well, you can shop with peace of mind with the good people from Thrive Market. Thrive Market makes it simple to find trusted, family-friendly brands

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Great. Thanks for having me. This is going to be so fun. Yeah, I had so much fun chatting with you. Did you see that Allie Luber, Sheena, and Katie have unfollowed James Kennedy after his posts with the Tate brothers? Oh, no. Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Do you think people do this dramatic unfollowing to get a headline? Because I was just thinking about Katie now. I know Katie is at this network and I like her very much. I think you forget about it.

But I do feel like... I was just thinking. I was like, what is up with Katie? And then my phone reads my thoughts. And then I saw...

that she looked gorgeous and there was a photo of the guy that she's dating posted with the two of them and I was like oh that's so great you know that she's doing so well and looking so good and I personally maybe there's some people I unfollow I don't know why people don't use muting more unless you're looking for a headline if you if someone in your life isn't really in your life right now and you don't want to see them having a great time or going to parties without you all you

All you have to do is mute it. Yeah, but I think... And nobody knows that you aren't, like, on the brink of, like, not being friends anymore. Yeah, but in this case, for example, James Kennedy, I'll use a perfect example. Yeah. Like, after, you know, when we saw each other at Kathy Hilton's party... Right. Yeah. We saw James. Right. We both talked to him. Then we found out that he got arrested at night. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was very critical of James. Like, I didn't think to myself, oh, I still follow James Kennedy. Right.

Yeah, I still follow James Kennedy.

I don't think they're doing it for a headline per se. I think the following unfollowing thing is really lame because it's like you could just be following people because you're looking for material to talk about and they're an interesting person. But you're allowed to unfollow people. The same thing when people go, oh,

they followed this person. That means they're this way politically. No, I've always followed both candidates. I've always followed people on both sides because I want to know what the arguments are and what they're saying. That does not, you know, like, you don't know. And that's what I kind of, I hate that dumb side of like, just because you follow someone means that you think...

That you agree with everything they say and that you guys are asshole buddies and you are going to go on a trip together with the Tate brothers and fly off on a private jet. Like, it's fine. Unfollow them. Unfollow him. I thought it was interesting that the Tate brothers then came forward and were like, no, I hung out for 30 minutes. Yeah, they're like, you were kissing our ass. Like, you were obsessed with us. I'm not. I don't know. That part was bad. I believe them. I mean, just taking a photo after an event.

when everybody basically looks the same. Also like everyone around that area, everyone's talking about them, you know, for him to change to act like he didn't know who they were. So then why'd you want a picture with them? Everyone around them, I'm sure was pointing. Oh my God, that's the Tate brothers. I mean, if those two guys came up to me at a restaurant and said, oh my God, my girlfriend's a big fan. Can I get a photo? I would be like, sure. I, I know who the Tate brothers are. I wouldn't go. You two are the Tate brothers. I wouldn't know that. But,

But if we sat for 30 minutes, I would have known that they were the Tate brothers by then. Motherfucker posted it. So that's the difference. He's like, let's get it. It was selfie style. And there was also a photo of them from a distance where they're all just like chatting and having a time, not just taking a photo. So it was very intentional. Brittany Carrey also does come out and say that she did drug tests on Jax Taylor every week for the safety of their son. Yes. I do drug testing on Jax every Monday. It scares me. I'm drug testing him every day.

myself for the safety of my son and I'm going to continue doing that for a while. I just feel like it's so hard because even if he is sober, his actions have not changed. Why does Jack still have access to their son? Well, I'm sure she doesn't want to like take his father away from him. So she's like, why is he administering? I mean, if he has an admitted cocaine problem, I think that would justify a removal or if nothing else to have like

Let me tell you something about California. Dads have a lot of rights. This is the best, probably one of the best states for dad's rights. So every, the judge, judges always want family court. They want it to be 50-50. And it's very hard to prove that.

I need to have soul custody. I know this because I've been through it. So it's like, it's very, very difficult to do. So if he is, you know, showing that he is whatever he said on the other thing, a hundred days sober. And part of it is okay. You drug test or you, or you have a supervised visit with a nanny, whatever. They will always encourage that the relationship with a mother or father is not so severed because there is no time.

And the olden days of just being like, I'll see the kids every other weekend and on Wednesday nights actually works out really well. But the man's ego rarely in 2025 will agree to that because they're like, I'm a good dad. I don't want to see you as a good dad. When actually...

That pattern is once the kids are in school is a lot easier to handle than having week on week off half half. It's very hard for the kid and talk to any kid that had to live in two homes that are now 30 and they'll say, yeah, that fucking suck. And it was hard. So I think she's doing her best to like placate and like make sure it's okay. And he's very much defending, you know, the fact that he,

He keeps saying, I'm a shit husband, but I'm a great father. So we will see it. Have you seen the trailer? The trailer looks like it's going to tell everything. Here's my question, and I love the Valley as a fan, but man, it's like these reports of Jack's always seem to pop up right around the time that the Valley is about to premiere. And it's just like, man, are these people...

using their just terribly toxic lives and where a child's involved in this really grotesque story and it's really unfortunate and sad to promote the valley? I think in the last season, the first season, did you guys watch first season? Oh yeah. So, you know, he constantly was like kind of shaming her like she was the boozer and he was like,

what are you doing? And she's like, I don't feel good. My tummy hurts. And he's like, get out of the room. We're at this. And I thought it's him freaking what we weren't able to see because it would have been breaking the fourth wall is he was trying to get this spin off for like four years and it finally happened. And he was, and they obviously had marital problems, but he was pissed that,

that she was physically ill and not participating in scenes. And he was like, this is not going to be a hit. And if we don't have this hit, no, we can't have another baby. And the bar will be a bomb. And so, and she was, and she physically was not doing well, probably because of the stress of the fact that she was like, do I have another kid with this guy? Like, you know, knowing it's not good, but also not having the strength to go because now they finally have this show and

and, you know, and what could happen of it. So I think all the stuff that we see was absolutely happening, but they also wanted to keep it quiet so that people watch the show. They want it to be a success. You know, some people were like, why doesn't she just go back to Kentucky? I'm like,

Because she makes a lot of money here being an influencer. I mean, she has a kid. There's a lot of opportunities for her. But then this is all you know. This is all you know. I mean, look, you already had a career. Then you became famous on The Bachelor stuff. You made this podcast really work. But I was thinking now that nobody talks about The Bachelor. Remember when there were like 30 podcasts that were just like recapping The Bachelor? Yeah.

And they were like all on I heart. Like who's even left? And we talk about a little bit. Yeah. Um, who is left? I don't think, I mean, Ashley and Ben are probably the only cause cause Jared and Dean squash theirs. There wasn't really, I mean, there were literally like 20 at one time.

Like five years ago. I guess. It was more bachelor. It was more bachelor. Alumni's. And that's what I'm saying. Just the top. But you're talking about the bachelor. Yeah. I mean, like any bachelor person who had a podcast on some level, you know, you kind of, you play your hits, so to speak. Right. You know, you, you play what you talk about, you know, what works. And then it's very hard to like grow up.

grow outside of it. Now let's talk about wellness. No, no one wants to hear about your teamwork shot. Yeah, but I guess to that point is those people did move on, whoever they are or they live in their lives. Is The Bachelor currently on right now? Yes. And it's the guy. His name's Grant. Yeah.

Yeah, I used to be so into it and I used to like love to like, but then it also became a part of it. I think the problem with it is like we all realized like, oh, maybe we shouldn't be talking about this girl's speech impediment. You know what I mean? Like, like, like picking apart each person and they're like, you know, twitching. This is different TV shows. Yeah.

Yeah. But I feel like they're so young now. Yeah. That it feels strange. They're the same age. I think we just got older. That's what I'm saying. I feel too old. I feel like these kids are like my kids age and I just am like, ew. But it was so fun when it started. Oh my God. When it was like Alex. Alex? Yeah.

the first one yeah i mean the first one like it was it was crazy because nobody knew what that what what this was going to you watch the first season oh yeah i remember like calling my sister and we were just like what is that like we just thought it was like the craziest funniest thing anyway okay what else you team uh dorit team kyle are you oh so i watched it last night you watched it can can you explain to me why we're still talking about kyle and moe's

divorce because honestly I don't give a fuck anymore oh well he was just seen last night making out with a new brunette I mean and and in Lisa Rinna and Eric Eric last night night like real time like last night in LA at Chateau Marmont 25

Yes, like as in March 11th. Because I can never really tell when it's airing. And it's like, was this six months ago? Was this today? He was making out with some girl and it was a near miss. Either he was just leaving or Erika Jayne and Lisa Renna had just left and then he arrived and was making out with some girl in Chateau Vermont. And the comics were like, just get divorced. They just said young brunette. But they just were like...

Oh, just what is this? So do you think he is not as wealthy as they portray? And do you think it's a money thing? We remember when Kathy Hill in a couple of weeks ago was like, Mo can't afford to get divorced to you. And I was like, wait a second. I thought this guy's like close to being a billionaire. He's the CEO of the agency. CEO is different than owning them all. I understand. But like the agency, like, I don't know, they do billions of dollars of sales worldwide. You would see it. You would think the CEO of that company is doing pretty,

pretty good for himself, but maybe that's not the case. Is he the CEO or is he like the president or face of? I really don't know. And real estate, you know, real estate, when everyone's like,

When people would be like, oh, she just got hired by the agency. No, anybody will take any new real estate agent. My mom used to say, if they put a mirror in front of your face and there's steam, then they'll take you. Because they're like, okay, can you sell your grandmother's house? And then once you've gone through all your contacts, now can you still bring in money to have us let you even use this desk? Yeah, but he's the CEO of this massive company. Right, so I'm just saying it's just like a churning thing. He's the founder and CEO. He's the founder and CEO. Yes.

And I mean... He might be over leveraged. Yes, I think that he has a lot of money. But like I said, it's a franchise. So I could open an agency tomorrow. So maybe they're not getting divorced because there's no prenup. And it's just more like, hey, please don't divorce me because then we'd have to split a bunch of assets and it would just be too complicated. And maybe they're disagreeing to stay together and then keeping the storyline going.

I just don't think they're going to get divorced until one of them is with someone that insists on it. That's fine. I guess I don't go. I think they're just kind of like. Do you care? Get along. Because I don't. Do you think Morgan and her are lesbians? No. I don't care. What do you think? I think. If the right answer was going to bring you $100 million, what do you think? Are they a couple or are they not? I don't think they are. I think they're more than friends.

I think that... I don't know what that means. I think Morgan Wade found this pretty lady in her DMs and was like, who is this? Saw that it was fun and liked the friendship. Morgan said Kyle stalked her. That's what I'm saying. That pretty lady came in my DMs. I'm doing her voice. I'm sorry. And I'm going to make you love my... And she... I think then...

Mm-hmm.

I'm like a real country tattooed lesbian singer and I'm a real musician and that is not my fan base. And Kyle was like, so now we can't talk about her. And now, you know, I got what I needed out of it last season. I think they're true friends. I think gay couples are able to be romantic and break up and then remain friends. So I think maybe they did have something going on and now they're just friends.

I just think she doesn't want to be a divorced woman. Like, I just think she just doesn't want to be divorced. And she's just like, well, you know, it's fine because I'll go to Aspen when he's not in Aspen and I'll go to Lake Keaton when he's not in Lake Keaton. We have the Encino house. And, and so they're just kind of like doing that. But I mean, it's not the audience, not the audience to be like, you have to get divorced. So, I mean, the storyline is just her life. And I mean, at least her life, I mean, she's kept it going forever.

for, you know, whatever, 17 years. I mean, I can't imagine if I was a real housewife and every, and you know, Alex Baskin comes to me and is like, okay, Heather, it's your 10th year. What do you got going? Well, we're thinking about buying a new air fryer and I don't know. Cause like, I think this one looks better than that. Like, I'm at a certain point, like it's, and then it was like, oh, she's so boring when she's creating a storyline that she had, you know, needs to get plastic surgery or something. Like,

They come up with shit like like what, you know, I've had the same podcast for 10 years. Like, what would I do every year to make that seem special? I have a fashion show of podcasters. I don't know. So I just kind of feel like I think her situation is real. And I think their marriage was never as good before.

as what they portrayed. And that's the juicy part. I think they were just a attractive couple that was romantic. And when the cameras were there, he was on. There's other men that would be uncomfortable and kind of dickish. And then they'd be, and then everyone would be like, your husband's mean. And then they get weird. And then they get divorced. Like, I think he always came off so like fun and gregarious. And so anyway,

any little rumors people heard about him getting something on the side, there was never any evidence to it. And they always were like kissing each other and very affectionate. That's what I think. I don't think their marriage was ever that great. And I think Kathy being that they helped him get in the Hilton and Highland and then he got this opportunity and took a bunch of the top agents and stuff. She was still a little bitter and she was, you know, is like,

Not so sad to see. I mean, she's to this day cannot pronounce his name correctly. So she's like, what does she call him? I also think it's weird that nobody called him Mo like the first seven seasons of the show. And now they all do. We found out last night episode that he's Mexican. You just found that out? He's a Mexican Jew. Did not know that. I guess the last name kind of threw me off. What did you think the accent was? I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess it was the last name. I thought it was more, I felt like Russian or something. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Are we team Dorit? Oh, team... Sutton? How do we feel about that? I mean, I think the scenes with PK and Dorit are fascinating. Like, I could watch that...

He's like the opposite of Mo. Yes. And he, and she is like kind of shocked, but you can see that they've had a really bad marriage for a long time and the resentment. And he's like, no, you're not going to tell me what kind of apartment I can get. He's like, see, you're controlling me again while you're in our Encino fabulous home with your glam every day and your $4,000, you know, Louis Vuitton skirt. Like, you know, so I think it's,

I think it's so much. And she's kind of like, well, I was planning on just being in a miserable marriage forever. I mean, why are you telling me that we're getting divorced? P.K. didn't didn't their 10 year. Wasn't it wasn't it this month, March? And that's and we were all like, oh, maybe he's trying to divorce her before the 10 years, because then it's like, yeah, but I don't think he has the money.

I mean, he's living in an apartment, you know? It's not like he's Boyd George's manager. For the love of God, I don't know where he's getting all this money, you know? Like...

Yeah. He did this English show about realtors in England. Sure. And I don't know. That could have been a hint and made money. It maybe could have. So who knows? Well, and Dorit did do Watch What Happens Live. And she was asked if her status with PK is going well. And she said, not good. And then she was asked about divorce. And she said, it's not part of the conversation. But we're not really communicating. So to Natalie's point, that's where we're at. Nothing.

Nothing. Well, then at least the theory about him wanting to divorce her for this 10-year benchmark

I think she has got to go get a hot. I want to see her day. She's got to get a rich boyfriend, like a real rich boyfriend who then just goes to PK. I got this. He's like tall in the papers. I love her. She's a hoot. Like, you know, whatever. But I don't think a lot of billionaires want to be the boyfriend of a real housewife. I mean, that's what Ramona told me. Ramona said,

She could never get a boyfriend of any quality after her divorce until she left the show. Wow. And then when the last Ultimate Girls trip, they wanted her to like behave badly and all that stuff. And she was like, no, like I have a completely nice, normal boyfriend and you're only paying me a hundred grand for one week. So no, I'm not going to throw fits and be obnoxious like I normally am, you know, because she was like, you know what, Heather? It was really, really difficult.

All these girls are like, oh, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? You know, I finally met a really nice guy. And so she's a nice guy. She's like happy. But it's what guy who's like 60 and has real money wants to have a million blogs. Todd who? Bronwyn. Bronwyn's husband.

He literally just described him. He hates it. He's doing it. Yeah. He's up there. He's performing. That man loves his wife. I listened to that interview you had with her. Oh, thanks. And I thought it was good. And what do you think of the fact that she sat here and you said a $5 million necklace and she didn't correct you that A, it was four or that she never had it anyway? Yeah. I don't know. I think it was like...

The jeweler talking about that transaction with Lisa, I think, is a huge red flag. I mean, my mom was a jeweler for 20 years and was like, that is rule number one. Like, you never talk about... Like HIPAA laws. Yeah, HIPAA. Yeah. Literally. And so I think maybe there was a little bit of conspiracy between the two of them. I think the jeweler definitely liked Lisa maybe a little bit more than Bronwyn and was like, oh, I'll help you.

bring some ammo to the reunion. Or, or, you know, she had to drive all the way down to, uh, Laquita and then there, it didn't result in any sale. And maybe she, looking back, they didn't feel like the jeweler got the PR. I mean, how many times have you had that where someone thinks like that you're going to give them more PR or tag them more or whatever. And then they like, all of a sudden you wake up at three in the morning and there's like a nesting text of like,

you know, I don't think I got enough out of that. And you're like, oh God. I remember Ross Matthews said, I would rather, he goes, we were talking about that. He goes, if Picasso himself was going to offer me a painting for free, so long as I promoted it,

you know, and tagged it to his liking, I would rather cut off my own ear than accept that. Like sometimes those things, you just cannot be right. Sometimes people are like so happy and you like do a little story. Usually their expectations of what they think they're giving you versus what

Right. They think you're giving them our way. So I think she was kind of better that a they didn't buy it. She didn't get a sale. And I don't remember the jeweler. No, I remember what she looked like, but I don't. It wasn't like, oh, it was, you know, Jenny's jewels on Rodeo. Like, I didn't know what it was like 14, whatever. People always talk about that 14 carat.

or even the Vanderpump guy jeweler. Like I feel like those people get what they need out of like being the jeweler to the Bravo star, you know? And then, or like restaurants and stuff. Like last night they had Drake on. Yeah. Drake's restaurant. And my son is named Drake. And I've been to Drake's and I was like,

oh, you know what? Like we need to like go there after he graduates from college and like have a nice day. Like those kinds of things put it in your head to like go there. And so then, and if you feel like you did all this effort and the cut was, it was cut or wasn't that great. She was just like, no, she never bought it. I remember Slade, remember Slade and Joe from Real Housewives of Boise. Do you do? I remember when I met him, I was like on Chelsea lately and I saw him in the audience with his new girlfriend. And I was like,

Oh my God. So nobody was watching the show back then. And so I asked him and I was like, Oh my God, Joe was such a bitch after you got all those jewels for her. He goes, that wasn't real. That was a jeweler friend of mine that brought over these. And that was like, you know, 17 years ago. And that's what I was like, Oh,

This stuff isn't real. But at least he was honest. He wasn't like, yeah, can you believe I spent $30,000? He was just like, no, it was, you know, just a bit for the show. Yeah. Yeah. I still think Bronwyn's one of the more real ones. Oh, I love Bronwyn. Yeah. Well, Todd and I are working on it. No, she can never. I don't want anyone to leave that show. She's one of the few housewives in the entire franchise that can just even acknowledge that maybe she was wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

Which is refreshing. They're a very fun, interesting couple to watch. Have you been watching Denise and her wild things? I have. I've watched the first two episodes. What do you think?

I think it's kind of fun. You know, even the cover of the poster, it's very reminiscent of what the first season of Kardashians was on E where they, and then the curtain falls and it's their house behind. And so it's like, they're holding a frame and they all look pretty, but they're wearing pajama pants. And I think that there is something,

a want of that type of like mid 2000s or the aughts or whatever they call it reality show and I think we see that and I think it's interesting to see the sister dynamic I really do and they're all so different yeah and I like her and yeah so it's

I was when when the one girl started OnlyFans, I was kind of sad because I was like, you have all this opportunity. You would rather just take sexy photos and not leave your home than like go be on a soap or something like you like you could be getting a show right away. But huh? Soaps don't pay anymore, you know? Well, yeah. And you have to memorize lines. So I was kind of like, did watching it like change your opinion on why she decided or were you just like, well, OK.

Got it. You don't want to work at the candy shop anymore. I do think people are inherently lazy, and I think she was like, well, I worked at a yogurt shop, or I could take these sexy photos of me and make money, which I totally get. It's like $15 an hour versus $50,000 a month. But I also feel like maybe this will be a good thing if she ever does want to act now. It could go that way, but I would have...

I would have been like, look, I know this is like an easy money grab, but you know, you have these, you come from like grandparents that were actors. Like you should see if, if acting is something you want to do, but maybe it's not. She got a nose job. I don't think that's good for her. Now she looks like Denise. Whatever you think about only fans. I don't think that's going to stop her from having the opportunity if she wants to pursue. You know what? I don't anymore. I actually think this is the reality shows a really good idea.

to like see her personality and stuff. So I actually think this was a smart move for the family to do this. And I don't think, I don't think OnlyFans is anything to be, you know, embarrassed about. Do you know, do you know Denise that well? I've had her on my show and I really like her and,

When she came on my show a couple years ago, it was her first season of it. And she told me the story of how Charlie... They had Thanksgiving and Charlie came and there was a sex worker, girlfriend, whatever. And he's like, she's fine. She's just in the car in the driveway. And Denise was like...

No, like bring her in or she brought her out of play. I don't know. Just the story of like, I called her St. Denise because also after they got divorced and when she left him while the little one was in her tummy, the younger daughter, she then when he married the other girl who's been, you know, struggling with with rehabs, I think she's been 21 times or something. They had these twin boys and she took the twin boys because they were both so close.

fucked up. So she took her ex's kids. Denise is a good person. I do believe she really is a great mom and has a big heart. For someone who was such a fucking star at a young age, she really is super down to earth. She could be so out of touch. And there are so many housewives. Beverly Hills are probably maybe the most. Where like

They act very out of touch. They've act very Hollywood elite. And then you have Denise Richards, who is one of the most famous housewives with a pedigree that most don't have. Most of the housewives are just famous as housewives. And the fact that Denise is so down to earth and so cool and her ex-husband's Charlie fucking Sheen

And I just, I have so much respect for her because she can be crazy, Denise, and say her, like, don't call your sister a dude. You know, perfect line. Don't call your sister a dude. And then she has such a big heart and she's so down to earth. And I think it says so much about who she is. And I love her so much. See, I disagree because after interviewing... You disagree what? I'll tell you. After interviewing so many housewives from all different branches, actually the...

Real housewives of Beverly Hills who were real actresses before, in my opinion, are the most down to earth. Like Lisa Renick came to my show by herself on

on time, planned it between she and me years ago. Yeah, Lisa, Lisa was like, Kyle, the most down to earth because she grew up in the business. Like the people that grew up in the business actually having to work and be on set and respect that they, this could be taken from them and they're not the star. Those housewives are so,

so much more down to earth than the ones that never were even in a high school play and are now the star of a peacock show. Like those girls, those ones are the more difficult that I believe have a more inflated ability

opinion of themselves and i just kind of like play along sure but like denise total you know showed up with the with the bun and never late never once have any of those actual actresses ever been late or flaked on a podcast the uh the people that have are the ones that yeah had nothing to do with the business and somehow lived in the area and got on the show and i'm like

oh, you know, why were you a half hour? Did something happen? No, I was just on the phone in the parking lot. Okay. Yeah. Like, all right. Yeah. Like did, um,

Is there going to be a White Chicks 2? Yes, I think there is. Are you being it? I don't know if I'll be in it, but I DMed Keenan and I'm like, is this true? And he said, yes. And I said, I have so many ideas for what I've been. I have so many ideas of what the storyline could be and what funny characters I could help develop. So I would love.

absolutely drop everything to work on it. And he said like, absolutely. Oh, it's we'll be in touch as it gets closer. So I will let the world know once these DMs stop being returned. And then I will release the juicy scoopers on the Wayne's brothers because I had such a good time going to his house every day, twiddling,

21 years ago to write that movie. They had written, they had the movie sold and I was like a contributing writer. So I helped with, you know, the girl line scenes, whatever that was. And then the part that I played was the, um,

With a sales girl. And the way that came about is his sister, Kim, who was on In Living Color, had come over and she was wearing these pants that like everybody wanted. These pants were so amazing. You go to this boutique on 3rd Street. And I was like, oh, I call those the magic pants. And I go, but that girl that works there is so annoying. She's always like, ha!

Can I help you with something? And Keenan starts laughing. He goes, oh, we need a shopping scene. And he goes, go write a shopping scene. So then I wrote the scene and I wasn't even writing that part for myself. And then they called me from Canada and they're like, we were able to, because they had to hire so many Canadian actors for like small parts. And he's like, we were able to, you know, if you can get here tomorrow, you can be the

the sales girl. And I never like expected that when I wrote it. And so it's so fun. And I love it. You wrote that shopping scene. Yes. It's an iconic scene. Then it was contribute, you know, everyone contributed jokes. And I mean, there's so many funny things that I remember of like how the jokes came about. Like one of the nephews, like people would come in and just give in jokes. And one of the nephews came up with like, or I think it was one of them.

Remember when they're like, you know what they say, when you go black, you end up in a wheelchair. And he goes, and then someone just comes by, then a white man just comes by in a wheelchair. Hi.

Like all those, like, and we, I remember like dying laughing at his house about that. I remember when the girls did the dance, they showed him the dance and made practicing for three days with the choreographer and Keenan goes, no, now it's too good. And you guys can't be that good. So then they had to like do the funk and they had to like redo it to be like less good. And so there's just, it was just such a fun thing. And I, I'm so happy that it's like,

with stained like oh it's an cancel culture yeah all of that because it was never um people would always be like oh what if this what if that I'm like there is no what if

It's it's white chicks. And we love that guys were making fun of our anorexia, bulimia, weirdness about our bodies and, you know, the things that we would say and do. It was all. Yeah. So I really I really hope because I think it could be so good and I would drop everything to go and just like be in that writer's room again. I mean, the whole scene was and I forget her name, but Deb from Dexter.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. The whole her like, Tina, the talking to me. That was based on my sorority sister, Stacy, who I just was texting with last night.

she used to do that. We'd get dressed and she'd be like, Oh, hello. I'm not like, and like take her fat and talk like that. And so, you know, and you know, we'd be like, what's this? You know, and we'd like talk like, Oh, baby's got back. Like what the fuck is my ass doing in this thing? And we would like talk about our bodies like that. And so, yeah, those were all things that like just came from my life of being a white chick. And then I remember when we were writing the, the Sean goes, I want to go out to a nightclub with you and your girlfriends. And like,

So we go to this nightclub in LA. It might've been the gate where Mauricio and Kyle met. It was on La Cienega. And, you know, girl, we go to Mr. Chow's first and the guys are all fun. And like, I bring a couple of girlfriends with me and that song crazy in love by Beyonce comes out. And,

And it was like every white girl was like dancing that song. And Sean just sat back and was like, I don't care how much money this costs. We got to get this song to be the dance song. You know, like, so it was just so fun. I'm just I love that it was. And it was like Wayne's Brothers are the most classy, like loving band.

uh, gentlemen family. I love them. They're just normal fucking people. They're just normal hard workers that like, you know, know how to be funny and work on it. Heather. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It was fun. Oh, juicy scoop, which will be going on their 10th. Our 10th year will start, I think July 1st and it's every Tuesday and Thursday. And then my Patreon, which I've had for eight and a half years,

is all the really juicy, more intimate stuff. And that's every Friday. And you get that at heatherretall.net. Thank you. Yay. Check it out. Thank you, Heather.

Well, thank you to Heather McDonald. Up next, we have the host of Temptation Island, a show that now is available for all on Netflix. It's had quite a run. Like we talked about early episode from Fox to USA to Peacock and now Netflix. And I really hope it's found its home because this show, if you like reality TV, love competition shows, this is as dramatic as anyone you'll ever have seen. So join us. But right now,

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What's up, everybody? Mark, how's it going, man? It's going great. I'm so sorry I can't be there, man. You have the swaggiest studio on all podcasts, so it kind of bums me out that I'm a little under the weather. Well, next time. So Mark was supposed to be in studio. He's a little under the weather. He spared us his germs. We appreciate that, though. No one wants to get sick. It's thoughtful of you. I love you. My wife was a little sick, and I got a little sick.

I think that's what marriage is. Mostly good times and every now and then you make each other sick. You got to share it. It's not fair. How long have you been married, Mark? A hundred years. Good for you. That's awesome.

That's in show business years. I've been married 37. We've been married 37. That's amazing. Congratulations. And I hope that you, maybe in a couple of weeks, you can come back, maybe as the people are watching. I got to say, Mark, I started watching. I've seen the first two episodes of this season. You've seen more than me. Okay. Well, I have not watched Temptation Island since my sophomore year of college in

And that was season one when it was- Like what year? Fox, like 2001. Was that- No kidding. Yeah. When it was like on Fox. That's the original. Yeah. The original. I was like all in. Yeah. That's like before there was reality. It was like Big Brother, Survivor. And they're like, what if we did like a dating survivor thing? And then I'm in Belize.

And we're trying to figure this out and make the whole thing up. Yeah. I mean, I think it's what's I'm so fascinated about like temptation Island is that, you know, how, how many years have you, you guys have been running? How many seasons have you done? Like, I don't even, well, you know, it's a crazy thing. So we did Fox and it was like the highest rated show in the history of Fox. And kind of because of that, the bachelor started over at ABC started this whole thing. I'm not taking credit, but hang, you know, it's, this is what it is. I'm only kidding. And then, um,

Then, you know, we did like two or three seasons. We did two on Fox and then one on Fox reality cable channel that like four people watch. And then I went away and I went and did my thing, you know, jump from show to show. I did Antiques Roadshow for a bunch of years, game shows, Moment of Truth, which was a crazy show. And then out of the blue, I read in the like in the trades, they're rebooting Temptation Island.

I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, that's cool, but they're never calling me. And then I got a meeting and I walk into the meeting. I'm like, it's kind of like, I felt like I was in that meeting. Like when Morgan Freeman's in Shawshank and he's having his parole meeting. Yeah. I'm like, look, I know what you guys think you need, but you know, I don't need your stamp of approval. And I kind of walk out of there like, yeah, whatever. And then, you know, two weeks later, my wife and I are on a plane to Hawaii. So, you know, you just can't,

Can't figure it out. It's a really good show, man. I was really excited to see that Netflix picked it up. It's obviously bounced around. I didn't even realize it was on Peacock at the time. Well, it was on USA. Yeah, USA. Five seasons on USA. And then what's interesting is it did well on USA the first season. I really don't know. Nobody knows the numbers anymore. But when it started re-

you know, airing right away on Peacock. It did pretty well on Peacock, but it's just, you know, we had five seasons there and then Netflix picked it up and it's just a big difference. Yeah. Like Netflix knows what's up. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're a behemoth and I'm very, I'm very optimistic and very hopeful, Mark, that this, that, that people, uh,

stop sleeping on this show because I myself have been sleeping on it. If you like Love Island, I mean, it really honestly seems like Temptation Island to your point. When you watch this show, it's just like, oh, so this is where Perfect Match got this idea. This is where Love Island got Movie Night.

idea. I mean, you guys really are an OG show. You've been around for a long time. You've been on and off the air, but like it really is the same blueprint with you, the original host. And I'm really hoping that Temptation Island has finally found its home in Netflix and that people, it has this like

viral revolution because damn it's excellent television I mean it's so good and may I say Mark since I'm kissing your ass right now kiss away what a breath of fresh air you are as a host oh man and like you're listening to what they're saying you're giving earnest advice like on The Bachelor it's like they have these fake sit downs with the host and it's just like they're opening up about all their problems and they get like a pat on the back and like well good luck I hope you don't fuck up your life

And you are, you know, like, have you always been that way? Like, first of all, like the advice that you give is sound and good and thoughtful. How did that become a part of the show? Is that something you've always enjoyed doing? I'm like, I'm myself, you know, I love to give advice and things like that. And it's part of the show. But sometimes with these types of shows,

You know, it's like the host isn't the focal point type of thing. You kind of have to balance that out. So how did it all come to be where you're sitting down and really being like a voice of wisdom? You know, you care about these people and it's evident in watching. It was never my plan, but my way of hosting everything kind of grew out of a different way than mine.

natural talent i mean like a normal talent route i started in production i kind of look at the show as a star and i'm just trying to be of service but first of all just to give props to the bachelor and other shows like that those you know more than me nick but you know the behind the scenes on those shows it gets a little scripted and so the hosts are doing exactly what they're asked to do for sure our show there's not any i can't say there's not any of that but there's

From my seat and my part, there's really none of that. And so my approach has always been, you know, it was never my intention to be like advice dude. You know, I felt like that was kind of shitty and I didn't really want to be that guy. But what was natural to me and never something I was asked to do is that when we started these interviews,

and bonfires, I really cared. And I'm like, you're either buying what you're selling or you're not. And so I would ask questions and kind of go there. And then, you know, my wife and I have grown each other up emotionally, intelligence wise, and, you know, spiritually and stuff like that. And so I was constantly like listening, not just to what they were saying, but to why they were saying it. And, you know, just trying to help.

And my originally like back in the day was like, maybe if I say these things, then you'll get the soundbite, you know, you need from them. And then my intention is, you know, cut me out of the show, but then they'll give you juicy stuff. But then as the show went on, it got a little bit more like the producers are asking me to do it. And, you know, so my stance has always been like, let it rip. We don't need a script here. I don't watch the clips beforehand. I have no idea what's going to happen in the bonfire.

And I mean, it sounds kind of corny, but I kind of just want to help. It's really painful. And, you know, maybe I can say something that either eases the pain or redirects their anger, opens them up to something they could discover.

And, you know, that's what's up. Yeah. Well, how much you care is evident. And, you know, I'm curious watching it and I'm excited to see the rest of the episodes. But obviously the premise of the show has a very kind of scandalous kind of taboo element to it where people are, you know, coming in relationships or dating other people. But at the same time, do you believe like it?

It almost seems like, you know, outside of the scandalous element of the show that you believe a lot of these people get the clarity that they need, whether that's clarity about this relationship or staying in the relationship they came in with isn't serving them as well as maybe discovering that grass is, you know, maybe greener on the other side. But yeah, you seem to, despite, you know, the juicy, scandalous sex scene,

sexual element of the show, you bring that heartfelt element to the show where it almost balances out the kind of salaciousness of the premise of the show. Well, here's the deal. With this show, the show I did years ago called Moment of Truth and stuff like that, if I'm the guy going, let's see if we can make them cheat and look how fucked up you guys are, right? I think that makes the audience...

you know, stomach turn and to speak to like, what I believe is the power of the show and stuff like that. Look, here's the, I'm going to just be straight. I always try to be straight with everything. It's a crazy idea if you're in a relationship. Yeah, not, don't do it. But once people are like there, I kind of say to them, I'm like, look, here's the deal. This isn't crazy shit, but you're here. Let's see what we can learn.

And I'm going to let you know, even though you probably don't believe me, that I'm not a TV dude. And I'm committed to you getting something out of this. And my hope and my intention is that you all leave the island in a better place than when you came here. Something that might open up things you didn't know about yourself. Because the reason we're in these relationships a lot, Nick, is because we're recreating these preconceived notions about what love is.

And so when they get there, I'm like, look, you're here and we're pointing fingers at him and you're pointing fingers at her and all that's legit. But what I know is you're not going to change him. You're not going to change her. And without putting guilt on you, you've got a little responsibility in what you think you deserve in a love relationship. So let's see if we can't crack that open, give yourself a little self-worth and kind of arrest the toxic stuff

and try to rediscover and redefine what healthy looks like. Yeah. How quickly have you seen people break their rules or maybe they don't have rules and act out physically with, uh, with

with a tempter or temptress. What do you call the people not in relationships? I think they're calling them tempters and temptresses or whatever. So yeah, how quickly have you seen it? Or can we expect this season, how much switching teams can we expect? I don't think you have to wait too long. Okay. You know, in the first episode, I asked them all the question, what rules have you set? And almost all of them are like, no touching. And I mean-

I really work hard not to have judgment, but it was all I could do not to just laugh out loud and go, you guys, have you seen this? Have you seen the show? And are you being real? And so I say as lovingly as I can, I respect your rules. I hope the best for you. But I kind of chuckle because this experience, which I still think you think is a TV show and it is.

It gets real fucking real. And you can, I also say this to them, and the longer you manage yourself trying to be what you think that TV thing is, the longer it's going to take for this to hit you like a ton of bricks. And the sooner you just lean in, the more, if there's something that actually is legit, that's going to change your life in the future, that's your access.

That's awesome. What can people expect differently, if anything at all, now that it's on Netflix versus when it was maybe airing in previous places? Well, first of all, none of these shows work without great casting. And the Netflix casting department is like gold standard. So the people on the show are interesting and articulate and dangerous and beautiful people.

and all that, right? What I love about the show is that the format really doesn't have to change very much because there isn't a lot, which means it'll go wherever it goes. And that is a surprise every year, man. I'm like, people used to ask me, do you know who's going to stay together and who isn't? I'm like, I used to think I did. I was wrong every time. So, you know, I just buckle up. And when I see him at the bonfire, I'm like, let's just meet you where you are.

We'll watch these clips together. I don't watch them ahead of time. And we'll chop it up. It is crazy to see the difference in villas, you know, with all the women and their whipped cream and their lingerie. And then the guys are like, so do you want to make a drink or do you want to chat? By the way, that whipped cream and chocolate stuff.

Like, I can't. It's like, yeah, it's not sexy to me. But yeah, that dynamic is. You don't want chocolate licked off your abs? Yeah, but like, yeah, at the guy's villa, it's a party with all the temptresses and at the women's villa. Yeah, it's like a therapy session for all the girls to basically just talk about their shitty boyfriends. I don't like to generalize, but there's this vibe that like the boys come in resolved to be the men they say they are.

And then all the things are there and then they become like, what can I get away with? Yeah. And then the girls often or the women often kind of come in hoping to wait it out. You know, let me keep them at arm's distance and let me wait it out. What do you think is the most insane thing you've seen on the set? Insane? Yeah.

Well, I don't see a lot on set because I don't watch what's going on in the villas. Right. I kind of try to stay away from that because I think it makes me sit in a place of judgment and projecting on them and stuff. But I'll tell you, man, just like the viewers, I'll have a conversation with a guy. Feel like we're on this page. You know, they're kind of like, you know, resolved to be whatever. And then I'll show up to the girls' bonfire and I'll see a clip of like 17 naked asses.

And I'm just like, Oh my gosh. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm constantly going. And then I have to kind of say without judgment,

there may be a gap between what you're saying and what you're doing. Maybe we should explore that a little bit. What I was kind of like surprised by when I was watching episode two, where you, you know, you start getting into the relationship dynamics and things like that. And the men and women separate so much of the show talks about the

the physicality of these relationships and will they, won't they get physical with, with someone else. But another element is how much shit talking these people in these relationships seem to do about each other and not to downplay a physical like violation. But to me, like it's just, it's more, I don't know. Honestly, I think there's a world where I would rather have my partner do something physically than

and us work through that rather than, you know, here's someone just talk some mad shit about my character or what I do to some stranger or someone also trying to date my girlfriend or whatever. You know what I'm saying? It's like, and to me, that's such a violation. I think that's a really great point, Nick. And you're right. And I always talk about the violation of the physical violation worse than the emotional violation. So the best I can say with that is that like when you're in a toxic situation,

It's really easy to spend all your focus on what the other person is doing or not giving you or the victim that you are of them. And it's not to say that's not true, but there are two things that happen. It allows you to address any responsibility on the other person and then gives you permission. Well, if they did it, then I can do it. So first of all, as far as the physical stuff, the sex stuff, look, if you want to not cheat,

It's three weeks. You can just run the gauntlet. Right. Yeah. It's not that hard. I mean, come on. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So what I'm constantly saying is like, look, yeah, we got to look way beyond that. So if your thing is like, I really love her, but I, I just got to have threesomes. I'm like, I got to have a conversation with you. And I know this is gonna sound crazy, but there's such a thing called being in love with somebody so much so that while those things are cool, you don't, it's not just, you have willpower.

you make a choice and not do it because you love her. There's like a level of real love, which is like, you don't want to. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that seems so basic to us. It's like when we watch anything like Love is Blind or anything, we see what's going on with the couples. It was like, dude, don't you see this?

don't you see it? But when you're in it, you see everything but your blind spot. And so it's really easy to shit talk each other and give yourself an excuse to make you feel better. You're looking for agreement from somebody else to support your point of view. And it's not your fault. Do you feel like a lot of them use the excuse of like, well, I just watched her like say that like she doesn't want this man or I'm embarrassing to her. So like, fuck it. I'll just go and like do this with this girl. I think you'll see that this season. Yeah. I think and it's crazy to me

It's like one of the guys will act out, right? Maybe first. And then come to the bonfire. And then there'll be a bonfire where that's probably viewed. And then the next bonfire, he sees his girl making out with somebody. And he's furious. And how disrespectful of their relationship that is. And all that stuff. So now hear me. I'm not judging it. It's growth that has to happen there. You know what I'm saying? It's not...

lying and bullshit as much as being completely unaware. And the gap, like I said, between what you're doing and what you're saying. And so it's an old adage, but I say it like in every interview and every season, I'm like, look, there's a famous philosopher who says in relationship, and I'm paraphrasing, the only thing I can do for you is work on me.

And the only thing you can do for me is work on you. But when you start pointing fingers and blame and then not talking about it,

That's a bad, that's a road to temptation Island. It is, uh, Mark, this has been so much fun chatting with you about the show. I hope you get an opportunity to feel better and come in and chat with us in studio, but excited to see, uh, how this, uh, show performs on Netflix because I'm really excited about its potential, really enjoying the first two episodes and excited to see what's to come. Well, first of all, thank you for making me a hero with my, my daughter.

who's a fan and I'd love to be in studio. I live around the corner. And can I just like, like plug something in hopes that it ever becomes something. So I started a podcast called,

that like four people listened to, but the idea is to kind of continue the kind of conversations you see on temptation Island with guests and friends and all the stuff. And it's called bonfire talks with Markel Wahlberg. You can find it at, at bonfire talks podcast. And this is me shamelessly kissing all of your asses. So thanks for letting me shout it out. We appreciate it, man. You're, you're a legend and love what you do, man. And, uh,

It's just, it's refreshing to see a host. And I understand that not every host gets the opportunity, but like you can tell you give a shit and I think it makes it so much better. And you connect with the audience. Yeah. So I appreciate you and what you do, man. It's been fun talking to you. That that's the highest compliment you can give me. It's really important to me. And the thought of people thinking that I'm full of shit. I got plenty of that in my own life. So for you to say that means a lot. I love what you guys are doing. I'm really, really honored to be a guest.

This is a big day, you know, launching and thanks for making time. Right back at you, man. Appreciate you as well. And we'll talk soon. All right. Right on you guys. I love this show. Like, I really, I really hope it's a huge. Could you imagine? Cause you know, like obviously they all like sit in the swings and the temptresses and the tempters kind of like put their bracelets on like who they're interested in. And like, could you imagine if you're sitting beside your boyfriend of three years and he's

no one's like coming to put their bracelet on him could you imagine the ick that that would give you wait I actually thought about this I'm like they have to rehearse before like okay who's giving their bracelets to who what if nobody gets a bracelet I mean the one girl got like six I was gonna say I think there's like 12 people per like 12 tempters and tempterses so it's like the chance is someone's going to at least get one it's there yeah but it's just but if you get a pity bracelet

That sucks. But you wouldn't know. Like, that's the thing. But I'm like, I don't know which one's worse. If my person didn't get a single bracelet or if my person got the most. No, you're like, oh my God, is he ugly? Like, am I with an ugly guy? Like, why does no one want to like... But we're about to separate. So I'm like, oh, so you got six of them chasing you? I think if I went on Temptation Island and my partner only got like one or no bracelets, I would be like,

I'm good. Sitting up. I mean, someone basically told Breon, do you ever think like your girlfriend might be below you or like you date on your level? Do you remember that? Yeah. So it's like you're implying that you think he's hotter than her. The way that he talked about their like bedroom, like their sex physicality. Yeah. Do you imagine?

Him being like, she's not as freaky as me? Yeah. Yeah, like, first of all, this temptress is someone who, like, everyone knows is potentially interested in dating him. Let alone, like, just... Could you imagine...

No. Going to work and just critiquing your performance? No. Crazy. Or your appetite for sex? Do you know how mad I would be if I ended up leaving with him and then watching it back and being like, you said fucking what? No, literally. That's why I think it's nice that they do show them in the moment. Yeah. And it's not like, oh, let's get home. We're fine. Everything's fine. Let's watch it back and be like, what?

what? Yeah, you know exactly what's going on. I think it's a great concept because you know exactly what's happening while you're there. It's not like you're going to wait and think. Or do you? I mean, they show enough. I guess you know what they show, but they're showing the crazy stuff, right? Well, I mean, how much are they showing too? You know, like the producing side, you know,

You know, granted... They know enough. You know, like with Heather, we were joking about, oh, I heard you're talking shit about Nick. And it's like, did you listen to the podcast? And it's always like some... You know, like in the producers when they're showing at the bonfires, the clips, it could definitely be like, you know, six seconds of an 18-second, you know, soundbite. And those six seconds really...

are very triggering and maybe the other few seconds would have softened that but they don't show that type of thing like it ends like they definitely are able to amplify to Mark's point where he was kind of saying that the women try to hold off as long as possible in my head all I was thinking was like I bet until that first bonfire because if I saw a video of like two seconds of a girl licking something off of Connor's neck it's like alright so we're playing yeah okay so we're in the game let's fucking go

I mean, that's Tyler and Taylor's relationship. They should have broken up before even getting there. Yeah. The second he said dear, she was like, bet. I'm gonna flirt with everybody. Dear? Yeah. I didn't know that that could be such like a triggering where she's like, no, no, no, that's my pet name. No, before that, he was like, she's unreal. No, she's insane. She's insane. Girl in the picnic bikini's insane. Insane? That was...

It's a crazy show. He might... Taylor... Is it Taylor's the guy? No, Taylor's the girl. Tyler's the guy. Tyler's the guy? Yeah. He seems just... He's giving Tom Sandoval. In the sense that we're like, he's just... He's a little too dense to realize that saying, oh, she's insane looking and calling her dear, it doesn't register with his brain that that would be something that his girlfriend would not want to hear. Yeah. He's too dense to...

He's like, oh, I'm sorry. Also, deer is so like 17th century now. I'm like, are we still calling people deer in today's society? Yeah. It was interesting that it wasn't like, thank you, baby. Do you think the drama with Logan is fabricated? Which one? Which one is Logan? Logan, Ashley, and Grant's relationship.

oh, they sound actually more toxic than any couple. Yeah. She's almost kind of implying that he's just like a really shitty boyfriend and treats her really bad. When somebody, like when he calls somebody arrogant and then she's defending someone she doesn't even know she's at. You're arrogant. And it's like, okay.

Whoa. Shots fired. Tell me how you really feel. And then all the guys, like, when Logan was coming after her man, all the guys were like, yeah, like, stand up. Like, of course. Exactly. And it's like, not y'all standing together. I was like, that was kind of weird, too. Like, listening to, like, the women and men every single, like, talk shit about the, like, temptresses. You don't, you typically don't hear that, like, um. The cattiness. Yeah. It was so catty. And one of them, I don't remember who. I think it was, I don't know if it was, um, Ashley or Taylor, but she was talking about Kay. And she's like, yeah, I can, her hair is fake as fuck.

Yeah. Like those extensions are awful. It's like, not holding back. I don't know how you guys feel, but I personally hope that everyone is like nice to the tempters and temptresses. I'm like, they're just there. They are. I do. Like Nick said last night, he was like, I appreciate them like giving the tempters and temptresses like airtime. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like their feelings. And I really like that. Yeah. Because it, it, it humanizes them and, and doesn't like, cause, cause they first, they come out and abs and

It's awesome. It's like, girl, don't feel guilty. Don't feel guilty. I just couldn't agree more.

I do have one question that I wish we would have asked Mark, which is why are all the guys wearing those necklaces? What are they for? Oh, but why don't the girls have them? Because they're like attached to their bra strap. It's like Love Island style. Uh, nevermind. That's okay.

Sorry, I don't understand TV production. Obviously, I'm dumb. Let's continue. Well, all the episodes are out. We've only watched the first two. I don't know what you guys have planned this weekend, but we highly recommend you guys checking out Temptation Island on Netflix. We will be watching it and talking a little bit about it next week because, yeah, we're hoping you guys watch it because we love it and hoping you guys join along. It's also, I will say, it's also hard to watch the, like,

Women are just so hot and naturally sexy. And then to watch the men try to flex and be hot is so icky. And it's like... I'm glad that you said that because I kind of had the same thought where I was just like Love Island when they do the Casa Amor. It's like the women come out and it's like... And the guys come out and I'm like...

Even they love Island intros. All the girls are like, I'm like, okay, girl, get your dance on. And the guys come out and they're like jiggling. And I'm like, no, stop. Please stop. You're not allowed to have fun. Don't do that. Immediately no. Just stand there and look bored and grumpy. Yeah. You know, that's all you can do as a guy. But like, yeah. And I do feel like at first the women are at a disadvantage because like men are simple and stupid and like, you know, hot, good looking men.

All they have to do is move the wrong way or open their mouth and say something, and it's like an immediate ick. And guys, it's like, you can annoy the fuck out of us beyond belief, but if them titties are out, like, we... Whatever you say. It's like, ah!

sure yeah you're like love love your personality like oh my god i i'm just saying like you know you're looking at some cities no but if the titties are looking at you the cities are looking at you no none but i'm saying on on temptation i think sarah from love sarah from love is blind is here uh and we have some questions

This is Ashley Akedani from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. If you could lose 10.4 pounds in one month, would you try? Well, with Future Health, you can. Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just three minutes at tryfh.com. That is tryfh.com. Tryfh.com.

Hi, Sarah. How's it going? How are you? We're good. How are you? How's your heart? My heart's good. Okay. But today I woke up.

I'm so mentally off. So I'm so sorry I had to delay for an hour. I really appreciate you working with me through that. We're here to serve, Sarah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, you know how it's like you just wake up one day feeling fine and then the next is like not the best. Totally. So that was today for me. Anything you want to talk about or just in general? Is it show related or? Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's just this whole entire month. You know, I've never, I'm just a Minnesota gal. I'm a nurse. You know, I've never had to do any of this stuff. It's so out of my element. And, you know, it's exciting. There's so many pros, so many cons, but like just...

just trying to soak it all in. And then, you know, sometimes you just like read one mean comment and then it kind of just throws your day off, but other days are great. So just hanging in there. What's been the most difficult part about this experience? I was just talking to Leah about this earlier. Like, it's just something like you can't really anticipate or prepare for because it's some, I mean, for me personally, I've never gone through anything like this. And so it's just like having to manage it each day, the best you can. And, um,

Just like, yeah, kind of going through the waves of everything. So it's just interesting. You know, there's obviously been a lot of talk about your relationship with Ben, you know, why you guys broke up and things like that. I thought it was a very interesting storyline just because, you know, obviously the times that we live in and things like that and...

a lot of strong opinions on both sides of things. But like ultimately you and Ben met in the pods, got to know each other. What was it about like time outside of the pods that really made you feel like he couldn't get to a place that you needed him to go? Cause it, you know, it, it did seem like he was open-minded. He may not be where you're at, but

but he seemed open-minded. And I guess what was the big disconnect for you that ultimately caused you to say, this isn't my guy? Yeah, no, having those discussions alone was just like the important part for me. It wasn't necessarily like getting a specific answer, but throughout the time, like the two months that we were filming, I just felt like we were never progressing. And with these conversations, I like having those conversations, but I also...

Also, we did have chemistry and a connection besides having these heavy conversations. So like there was truly love there. But ultimately, like on an emotional state, I felt like we just weren't progressing. And that's why I feel like, you know, I was asking these questions and like having these hard conversations. I wasn't really getting an actual response like he was receptive and he wasn't.

you know, guarded or anything by having these conversations. But I just really like to, you know, explore people's minds and like where we grew up or like how we grew up, how we became the person that we are and like how we just have the perception of like the world around us today. And I just felt like it wasn't as vulnerable as I was hoping to. And just like digging deeper, you know, he never said,

anything particularly wrong, but like, I just, I don't think he said enough to make me feel like confident.

in understanding really who Ben was. Did you guys try to date afterwards at all? Or it looked like watching the show that you pretty much kind of knew how you felt and weren't all that interested, but there was the whole Nashville of it all. That was a little confusing. Yeah. Yeah. So on wedding day, like we, we both went into wedding day basically on the same page, knowing like where we stood with things and what we were going to say. Um, and

And so, but with my heart and my mind involved, you know, I was thinking one way and then my heart was telling me like, oh, but this seriously could be your person. So I was just like completely like torn in so many directions, but I knew with the hesitations and like not the full confidence that this wasn't going to be a yes. Um,

But after like filming and like filming was over, the production team left. I was able to like decompress just a little bit and process everything. And, you know, with the emotions involved, I was still hopeful that, you know, despite the heterogeneity,

the hesitations, I was still like curious of what our relationship could grow into with no cameras, you know, getting out of this little bubble that we were in for the two months. I was eager to see like what our connection could be and also how we could progress outside of that bubble. And so I was just hopeful. I was just hoping that we would progress again in a way, just us two. And also like in this like situation, you're on camera and I,

you don't really know how people handle being on camera. Like I didn't know if maybe Ben wasn't being as vulnerable because of the cameras. And so I wanted to give him like the benefit of the doubt and be like, I still, I know that there's something in there. I just want to be able to get to it. And, um, so I, I really wanted to like exhaust all options before really fully letting go. And, you know, just with emotions involved, like it kind of clouds your mindset. So, um,

We did decide like a week after the wedding that he was going to come with me to Nashville. We talked about that in the pods. And so, you know, we were both excited. We talked about the details. And then the day that I left to Nashville is when it just, he, I just felt kind of dropped. And so I was confused because like we had such detailed agreements of him coming and when, when he was coming and everything. But ultimately I think when,

He like removed me from find my friends and everything like that. That's when I like had the most clarity of like, okay, this is actually who Ben is and the situation I was in. Like I felt pretty duped. And why do you, when you say who he is, who do you think he is? Like, what do you mean by that? Well, the whole entire time in the two months, like, yeah, we had these heavy conversations, but he also was like,

always reassuring me constantly with positivity, telling me he loved me so much that he would marry me that day. And it feels good to hear that. And so I was really thinking like, oh my gosh, this guy loves me so much. This is my person. And he was still saying that even after the wedding. And so I was like, okay, I will give this a try again. Let's

Let's try this out together. And so then it was like, that's why when I left Nashville, it was just like a complete 180 of what, of what I saw. Interesting. Uh, what did you make of his YouTube business card? Yeah. Um, so I saw that five days before the wedding and my friend from Nashville actually sent it to me and, uh,

With everything else that was happening and like coming to my attention during filming, like I was protecting Ben and I was protecting our relationship and also like protecting myself too, because it's a very vulnerable, open public situation that we're in. That YouTube card, I was, I got the backstory behind it because my friend received it from a girl that received it from him. And so like, yeah.

I was just like, okay, what is going on? Like, I, like, I just knew, like, there is so much I need to learn more about Ben and like his past. And so I looked up his YouTube. There was only like one video of him doing like a cuts advertisement or something. And so I was like, okay, at least there is, there's a video here and it's real, but like,

Like clearly videos were deleted, but I didn't tell anyone. I literally had no mental capacity to bring that up to anyone, especially production. Did you confront Ben about it at least? No, I did not. I just, I literally was like, I can't, I can't bring it up. Interesting. I don't think I did.

Anyways, but no, I bring it up to him after, after the wedding and before Nashville. I honestly, no, I don't think I did because that's, I think when things were coming out about the, about the business card or something like that. Has he spoken? I mean, do you know any more than we know is, is it relates to like,

Ben's version of this business card, because it's a really weird look to be a guy who's not really that much on YouTube to be handing out this business card with people he has a night of passion with. I honestly like, yeah, I just feel like there was so much that was going on. I can't remember exactly if it was like me directly talking to him about it or me hearing Ben's

his response to friends like some of the other cast members talking about it but um his response from my from like my memory is that he was like well i just wanted to like boost my my account i wanted to get as many subscribers and one one lady at a time yeah that was like a response that i was not surprised coming pennies make a dollar it's like so yeah i just i did not

bring it up to him. I just couldn't. I literally had no capacity or room to have that discussion. What is your opinion on Madison? She seems fairly toxic from just a viewer's point of view and seems to be pretty dead set on trying to make anyone that she was involved with on this show look

Like, is that a fair criticism or do you think she's being unfairly represented by the edit? You know, we all have our own different relationships and experiences with one another. I personally, you know, I respect and I feel pretty like protective of everyone in this experience because we all go through it.

the same, but like cope differently and handle things differently. Overall, I think Madison is who she is. She's, she's truthfully the person she is. And what does that mean? Um, I, I mean, that's, I, I don't know. I don't think that the edit, I actually editing has like a lot to do with, uh, people's perception, obviously, but I don't know.

what actually happened with like her and the pods or like with her relationships that happened. So I can't speak for that. In the battle between Madison and the other two men, whose character would you trust a little bit more? I guess I'm curious. That's a really good question. I honestly...

Don't really want to answer that. I'm sorry. I think you've said enough and you don't have to answer this either, but there's some speculation that you might be hanging out with Joey. Yeah, this has been a...

I've seen this a few times on online the past 24 hours. Yeah. And is there any truth to it or. Well, to be clear, me and Joey are not dating. Okay. Just friends. But to get context, you know, I'll give some background if you want. Sure. Yeah. The behind the scenes. So there was like a love square between me, Monica, Ben and Joey. And we were all talking to each other until the second to last day in the pods. Um,

Um, so of course, like naturally in that situation, in that circumstance, you do connect with people. And I feel like me and Joey did establish a really great friendship, but honestly, I didn't really talk to him until probably like five months after filming was over and him and five other people visited me in Nashville. And like, we called ourselves like the EHA crew. Like it's such a good time. Like it's all from cast.

And we, we grew really, really close with each other just because, you know, the support for each other, knowing what we've all been through and being able to just like be there for one another has been super important to me. Yeah. I just overall, like this whole situation, I feel close with Joey. I do. I am fond of our relationship, but I feel like very well supported by everyone involved. I'm just very grateful that I've met him.

But yeah, we definitely have a friendship. But you're also definitely not dating. We're definitely not dating. Can we say we definitely won't be dating in the future? I don't know what the future will hold, but I know for right now, I definitely have no, I just have no capacity to even think about a relationship. Have you seen his bachelor audition tape? I did see some clips of that. I did. Wild stuff. Yeah.

Yeah, it seems like maybe Joey and Ben had a bit of an interest of being in the limelight prior to Love is Blind. I mean, in Bachelor World, we might say they were there for the wrong reasons, given some of this previous content. Or maybe they're just goofy gals, you know? Well, and I also give credit to... I mean, anyone going on to this, you have to understand you know the outcome of possibly you may be on...

TV or like on Netflix or like, you don't know, like how you're going to be edited. So, you know, and everyone has different interests and hobbies of like what maybe they would want to do. But you know,

I kind of took the stance of when at the reunion, when we talked about Ben, you know, reaching out to you and wanting to get on the same page before reunion. You kind of took that as it felt scripted. It felt like he was you. It made you question a lot of his previous acts. I kind of was under the impression of like if you leave a relationship.

Kind of mutually like no one really fucks anyone over that bad. It's like, hey, we all have, like you said, been through this experience. We know like what the Internet can be like. Let's kind of try to protect each other as much as possible. And like if there's something we need to like hash out, maybe we do that privately between the two of us and not on national television.

So like, do we want to get on the same page before reunion? That's kind of where I thought he was coming from. Do you see, do you see it that way or no? When he like reached out to me and he's like, let's be on good terms. Yeah. No, I, I'm totally for that too. I wanted that. I, I, I feel like we're still cordial with one another, but it was just that in the context of how it happened, like all in chronological order, like,

after wedding day, we still had those plans to go to Nashville together. And then, um, you know, I felt like I was dropped that day, which in hindsight, I probably should have known better. Um, but then that happens. And then the next time I hear from him is because he got like past, um, cast member advice to be on good terms with me. And he, he did use the language to practice reunion questions together. And so that's what turned me off too. It's not like

He was intentionally and being sincere with wanting to connect and to check in with one another. Could both things be true? Couldn't he be nervous about...

you know, a reunion, not having done something like that before, knowing it's going to be recorded on national television, knowing it's going to be picked apart, knowing that majority of the audience are women, you know, like, couldn't it be fair for him to want to get advice or take the advice from previous people without making his desire to be on the same page with you insincere? Like, can't they both be true? Yeah, no, I agree with that. I do. It's just...

Also, everything that I knew about Ben at the time, like it only just made more sense that the reason why he was reaching out to me was because he was advised to. Knowing that you did not confront Ben about the business card, I actually understand your point of view better now because it's like all you had was this like business card and this like accusation and you know,

almost felt silly didn't want to bring it up then you didn't bring it up then almost felt unfair to bring it up now but you still knew about in the back of your mind and that that kind of gave a very insincere i'm assuming impression of ben so it makes me understand your point of view better but i guess you know to nally's question in mind like now that the dust has settled so to speak like do

do you slightly regret coming for him or based on what you know now, putting everything together, does your gut tell you that your instincts were more right? Or was it maybe just like, you know, you guys were all just kind of caught up in this machine that is love is blind in the reunion. Like which one do you think is more accurate now that the dust has settled? I mean, of course, during the reunion, like, okay, so this past year I've processed everything, accepted everything that happened and I've moved forward. Yeah.

But when you're rewatching everything, you like get back into what you were feeling at the time. And so, yeah,

I did not want to go into the reunion feeling like I was trying to just bash Ben. I wanted to go in just telling my story of what happened. And again, I respect Ben. I we all went through this together. I truly did love him and our experience together. But in the end, yeah, I was hurt. I felt duped.

And I don't regret with what I said. I did apologize to him how feisty I was. I told him I came off a little more feisty than what I ever was intending to. But in the setting of talking about things that happened and then getting pushed back that it didn't happen or that he can't remember it, it just brought me back to the time of how much I heard that.

And I don't regret bringing up what I said. Okay. That's valid. That's fair. Okay. Any other questions for our girl? Cannot stress enough. Do not read comments. Yeah. Ignorance is bliss. Get outside. Yeah. Stay out of the comments. Any advice. Tell me. Yeah. Get offline and get outside. That's my advice. People are very...

I'm sure it feels heavy right now. When I, my first time on the bachelor, I was, I don't know if you know anything about it, but I was very much the villain and online. Oh, I was public enemy number one. And, and there wasn't anyone else to shit on. It was just me. And,

And when I went outside, I was treated like a rock star and everyone loved me and everyone wanted to take pictures and everyone was super nice outside and online. They were very different, but the real world is what matters. And online is just people who don't have the guts to say something to your face and they go away and they come back. It's not real. Get outside. That's that's our advice. All right.

Thank you. I'm going to go on a walk. Do it. Do it. And I'm sure if anyone recognizes you, I promise you they'll be very nice. Sometimes you have to like I the amount of times I delete TikTok off my phone, I delete Instagram off my phone. I limit comments. I only allow certain, you know, friends and family to like you just can't allow people to have access to you. And I think blocking that off is very, very self-serving. And I think you it helps a lot.

If you're looking for validation online, you will only find pain. I promise you. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, I've been surrounding myself with family and friends this whole time. It's felt really good. And then after the reunion, I was like, okay, now it's time to get back into the TikTok, you know, swipe a little bit. No, no. Take some more time. That was like all yesterday. So I would, yeah, I would, I would, I would stay off, uh,

offline for the most part for the next month or so. Enjoy the real world. It's pretty good out there. Yeah. And it's warming up in Minnesota. So, you know, or Nashville, wherever you are. Is it? I don't know. All right, Sarah, I appreciate you taking the time. Best of luck in the future. And thanks for answering our questions. Thank you. Thank you for understanding about the delay. I really appreciate it. No worries. All right. Take care. Bye. Have a good one. All right. Bye-bye.

All right. You know, I do understand where she came from, knowing that she didn't confront Ben about the business card. I was probably just eating her alive, and she just, like, wanted to ask him about it, but she wanted to be nice and look out for him. Yeah. I get it. I get it. She...

There's something fishy about Madison. They're all afraid of her. They don't want to answer the question. They all clearly think she's toxic and they don't want to say something. I don't know. But I've been a Sarah girl since the beginning. She was always my favorite. So I'm glad she's...

getting offline and doing her thing. Well, we'll see. It doesn't sound like she's very offline right now, but I hope that she starts getting offline. Well, that'll wrap it up for this episode. Just want to give a special thank you to all of our audience members. You guys are also part of the household. It's been 900 episodes. I always...

Every time we have one of these kind of, I don't know what you call it, but monumental episodes, it certainly reminds me of our first couple ones. We've come a long way, and I know a lot of you have been with us from the beginning. And whenever you guys joined us, we're happy to have you a part of the family and part of the household. And we hope to be with you for 900 years.

Thank you to our guests, Heather McDonald, Mark Wahlberg, and Sarah from Love is Blind. Also, be sure to check out our Going Deeper episode with Emmy and Will from Southern Hospitality. It's definitely a doozy. If you're not watching the show, you should check it out. It's like a new Vanderpump. And if you aren't watching the show, it's still a very juicy reality TV show.

episode of a lot of behind the scenes and a lot of real talk about what it's like to be on an ensemble cast and trying to live your life as well. So be sure to check that out. We'll see you next week. Bye.