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You're crazy.
How's it going? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm good. My name is Sarah. I am 29. And how can I help Sarah? So my DNA testing revealed a 60 year old family secret. And now what? What is the secret? We found out that my father's father, so my grandfather, isn't my real grandfather or his real father. Okay.
What is the problem? I guess like, not that that's like, I don't know, like, was he adopted? Like, you know, I mean, old, old day, like, is this has this created family drama, drama, we thought it would, it actually didn't. My dad took the news a little bit better. But really, why it was such a big deal was that we never would have thought that he wasn't. My grandma and my grandpa were married only for like a year when my dad was born. So
infidelity really wasn't a question. So we really didn't think that my dad wouldn't be my grandfather's child. So when this came out, there's two other kids too. So my dad is one of three siblings and he might be the only sibling that doesn't truly belong to my grandfather. And we're just finding this out now. And my grandma's now passed away. So we can't really ask her like what happened and how it occurred. Yeah.
Well, how can I help? So I guess my question for you, originally it was going to be, how do I tell my father? My sister and I went back and forth on how to tell him if we should tell him. We did end up telling him, which is why I kind of delayed talking with you. But now my question is, is the individual that is my actual grandfather and my dad's dad is alive. And he pretty much has said, I
I don't want anything to do with the situation and he won't speak to anybody. So I'm thinking like I have his address. Do I send him a letter and kind of just reach out and ask him some questions and see if he responds or leave it out? But you did reach out already? No, we found his address. My uncle's pretty good at finding stuff and he was able to find this man's address. He's 90, still living. He's actually in California. So on the other side of the country from me. He's 90.
Yes. So did he, he reached out and was like, I'm good. I'm not that interested. So we actually didn't reach out to him, nor did he reach out to us. This actually all came about because a random woman from another state reached out to me on Facebook and said, Hey, I think I'm your half aunt.
And from that, she's been in contact with that man's son. So he actually had a whole family. Like he got married, had two kids with another woman and like settled down in California back in the sixties. And then come to find out he has three other children that he had in my state in the East coast before he went over to California. It's a lot.
Okay. And so I'm still a little confused by how your, I guess, grandfather, right? Yes. Your biological grandfather found out and then how you heard that he was uninterested in having any type of involvement in this story. I'm definitely happy to go into all of those details. It's a lot, but I just wanted to give me the short, give me the short version, short version. A woman recontacted,
reached out, said I'm her half niece. From there, she starts exposing some information to me that kind of made sense from when this individual, the guy lived in my state. Is that how you found out, not through the DNA test?
So I've been locked out of my testing app for about four or five years. I was, it was my college email. I didn't have access to reset my password. So I actually haven't been into my account. And then this woman just recently did a test and she found me and she was like, I don't know who this person is. She reached out to me.
From there, it all kind of snowballed because my sister did a different DNA testing app. And she saw she hadn't been in her app for about three years either, because once you get your results and you kind of see everything, you kind of don't go back and look. There really was no reason for us to we didn't have any questions or anything. She saw that there was a half uncle and then somebody with a 20 percent match, which the 20 percent match is the grandfather.
So that's kind of how we put everything together and piece it together. And this woman talked with this guy's son that he had with his wife. When you say this guy, like you mean your biological grandfather? Yes. So my biological grandfather had two sons to his current wife. And the one son actually saw me on his DNA testing. And this woman that reached out to me, my half aunt,
who reached out to the son and said, hi, I think I'm your half sister. I believe you have other, you know, family through this. And I just wanted to see like, what is going on? Can you talk to your dad? Meaning my biological grandfather, can you talk to him and ask him, hey, does he know anything about these two families? Does he know about the other children he has? And the son of my biological grandfather reached out to him and he was like,
I, those names mean nothing to me. I don't talk about Pennsylvania and that's it. Like he wouldn't speak about it. He's being very shady. So he has more than one. He has more than one quote unquote illegitimate child. So my half, my half aunt who reached out to me, she's actually a twin and then it would be my father. So he had three illegitimate children, two married women in the sixties picked up and moved to California and then had a family. Okay. Wow.
Yeah, it was a lot. It all snowballed pretty quickly too. I was intrigued. I imagine these DNA tests reveal this quite often. Yeah, I was surprised that this may have never been a topic that you've covered because I feel like I can't be the first person that found this out, but it was a little bit more of a surprise for our family given the circumstances because we didn't think that my grandma was cheating on my grandpa back that far. Yeah.
I think the difference between now and then is no one talked about shit back then. Yeah, that's true. But I think a lot of things went down.
So you're trying to figure out what to do next, basically? Yes. So right now my dad's actually getting the DNA testing done for himself so that way he can see it all kind of match up for his own because right now it's just based off of my sister and I's accounts. So he's like weirdly embraced this? Yes, because here's the other kicker. So he's one of three. He was the first
his siblings, firstborn. And come high school age, infidelity was common between my grandpa and grandma, which is what led to their divorce. So it really, like, it took him by surprise. And he's obviously saddened
sad that his dad isn't his biological father, but he also says like this man raised me, he's my dad and he's my dad's 63. So at this point in his, in his life, he's like, if I were your age, you know, 30, you know, young, I might reach out and like try to mend things. But he said at this point with my mother past, which my grandmother is passed away.
no way of us really figuring out like what happened. So that's why he's been pretty chill about it, but definitely no interest in speaking to his biological father. But I, on the other hand, I'm kind of just curious.
And curious about what? He apparently he's hard of hearing. So it's not like I can try to call him or talk to him on the phone. I'm obviously not going to hop on a plane and fly across the country either. So I was just kind of curious to, you know, write a letter and just see if he would respond first and just see if he would even be willing to respond. And then also just kind of ask him if he'd be willing to tell us what happened. He, according to his, his,
His son, he said that he's a reformed Catholic. He's very religious. He is on the straight and narrow. He got out of the military back when all of this happened with my grandma and the other woman. You know, he was sowing his oats in Pennsylvania after he got out of the military. So in his mind, he just had a little bit of fun. And then he picked up and moved out west. This is his son's version of events?
Yes. And that's what he's, I guess, said growing up, like, oh, I moved back to my hometown and then I picked up and moved to California. But I guess I would like to kind of confront him and be like, you know, consider yourself this religious straight and air person. But now these things are coming up and, you know,
I would just like to know, what was your relationship with my grandmother? Was it a long period of time? Could potentially anybody else know? Or just in general, see if he'll respond because he's not being very responsive in general with this news. Okay. Who else is as curious as you? I think...
my sister is, I think we're both kind of like mad because of how shady he's being with it. It's definitely not bugging my dad as much. My mother is a little bit just torn up because my dad's not considering not telling my grandpa. So my non-biological grandfather,
My dad doesn't know if he wants to tell his father that this came out. He's still alive. Yes, he's in his 80s. He's healthy. It's not like we would be worried. Why is your mom upset about that? Because she thinks he deserves to know because he's like the true victim in this. If he didn't know that she had an affair. And what good is going to come of that?
Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what we said. My mom thinks that he should know. I kind of go back and forth on a day to day basis. But like when people say stuff like that, I just want to know the why, right? Like the principle of it, like, is that it? Like, because the, like, who, who are we, like at this point, I think we, I think it's important to think about the outcome of these decisions.
and the why we're doing these decisions. I don't think curiosity is a very good reason. And what I'm hearing is that there's a lot of people not really involved in this story directly are the most curious about this story. It is a fascinating story, and...
I just think sometimes a lot of people are close to a story, but not really involved in the story. And sometimes when we're close to a story by proxy, because the people who are really involved are people we care about, whether friends, family, things like that, we have a way of convincing ourselves.
how important it is to us. But like, sometimes I think deep down, we just kind of like the drama. I would agree with that. I think that's a little bit of where I'm coming from is like, I kind of want to poke the bear a little bit with him just because he's being less than cooperative. Uh,
But yeah, he's 90 years old. I mean, if I'm being honest, what I'm hearing for you is I don't know if I should harass this 90 year old man or not. When you put it like that, I mean, yeah, that's kind of, that kind of sounds bad. I mean, there's like a strong chance that this man doesn't remember. Forget about that. Let's assume that his cognitive abilities have not declined.
Especially if he was any kind of playboy. I don't remember every date I've been on. I'm only 40. Do you remember? I guess I feel like it's a little different because they were married. They were both married women that had houses. The one actually had another child. That was like 65 years ago. Yeah. It's been that long. Then there's a whole added part of that. Maybe his cognitive abilities aren't where...
They used to be. And like, yeah, you want to track this old man down only to find you have no idea whether his version and how accurate his version is going to be. Yeah, that's true. I mean, he again, and he could easily lie as well because he's 90 years old. Yeah, that's true.
So it's really not worth it in the end, especially if it's not my father that's wanting to raise me. And then you're the grandfather you know. You're the man who raised your father. I definitely don't think it's your mom's decision to decide who should know and what's right in this situation. Why crush this man's spirit? Why in his...
and it's 80 years of life, why bring him news that can only bring him sadness? If your dad wants him to know, then that's your dad's business because there's that direct relationship there and he can decide. If your dad doesn't feel compelled or want to tell them, I think everyone around your dad should definitely respect that. Because I don't know what the principle is here. I don't know what the right thing to do is. There's no right thing. There's no clear answer. And like,
I don't think it's your mom's place to decide he should know. I really don't. I agree. And she is leaving it up to my father. I think she just may be putting a little bit of undue pressure on him to maybe tell him just because of the fact that he-
You know, usually, you know, listen, like, and sometimes, you know, sometimes we have to push our loved ones to make difficult choices that in the short term, you know, might cause temporary pain or sadness, but there's hope in the long term that this is the right decision and we will work through this. You know, like if, again, like maybe your friend is,
being unfaithful to their partner and you're just like hey you can't keep doing this and you're you know he needs to know or she needs to know or whatever it is and yeah there's a lot of decisions here but again who's working on anything at this point what what is the resolution here what what what is this going to bring anyone i don't really i'm not seeing any upside
And again, short... And I don't think anyone should be pressuring your dad into making a decision that right now his instincts are telling him he shouldn't know. And I don't think your mom's in a place to decide what's best for your grandfather. And it honestly sounds like you guys are kind of caught up in the drama of it all, in the story. And it's fascinating. But what does it change? It doesn't change the memories, the history. It doesn't change your relationship with your grandfather. It's just...
It's information. And the reality is, is before this, you know, 23andMe and AnswersforYou.com and all these DNA tests, it's like, you know, sometimes ignorance is bliss. I mean, I don't know. Information's only useful if there's something to do with that information.
Yeah, I'd say my grandma was alive. I feel like it would have gone a little bit differently. But with her being passed, I agree with you. I think that this was just information A, we weren't looking for. And B, we really didn't need. I guess it's kind of, I'm just the weird type of person to think about the fact that
you know, I definitely, I don't know what half my genetics are. So like anything medically that could potentially come up, like, I'm not saying that this matters. I just know like, that's where it kind of, now that the dust has settled. Well, as far as my head is. Well, listen, like nothing's like, first of all, your grandfather's in his eighties, this other man's in his nineties. Like, first of all, I'm guessing they're not very online.
You probably don't even have to wait if you want to connect with this aunt or these other people. If you and your sister want to discover these things with all the other family members involved, but...
I don't think you need to like bother this old man who doesn't want to be bothered. I don't think you need to drop this bomb on your grandfather when your dad's instincts are that he doesn't need to know. But everyone else involved, if you guys want to meet up for coffee and write letters and Facebook each other and like maybe just like share information because and then maybe connect with people who are biologically related to you. And if you want guys to develop relationships by all means, like I don't think you really need to
impact these elderly people and kind of take them to task for something that happened 65 plus years ago when it's not really going to bring anyone any joy or resolution
And again, like if your dad decides he wants to do something that is your dad's prerogative and everyone, you know, you can still be curious and you can still learn, you know, and it doesn't require you harassing old people. Yeah.
Yeah, I appreciate that. And that I needed to hear that because I've been going back and forth. I really didn't make my mind up yet, but yeah, I, I think that you're right. And kind of just calling it what it is and not, not reaching out to at least again, my biological grandfather and yeah, with whatever my dad chooses with my grandpa, that's, that's completely up to him. I agree. And hopefully if I just talk to my mom a little bit, make sure she's not putting any pressure on him to tell him, because at this point, really,
Really, like you said, all it's going to do is harm. So I think it's best if we all kind of move forward because a week ago, this, you know, wasn't or a little over a week ago, this wasn't even a thing. Like we were all just living and doing our thing. And we've gone back to that for the most part. It's not like anything has significantly changed. Just kind of checking in on my dad.
on the mental health side, just making sure. Cause you know, when you hear news like that, it just takes a little bit to fully absorb. You guys should be absolutely checking in on dad and not pressuring him to say whatever you need, you know, whatever you want, we support you. That's all your dad should be hearing from you.
your mom and you and your sister. And yeah, if you guys wanna be curious, be curious with the people indirectly involved, not directly involved. This man's son, if you guys have access to him, maybe you can get more information from him. Maybe you can gently build a relationship with him so that maybe if your biological grandfather keeps on living,
Maybe he will be compelled to pull maybe some information or soften his dad up. I think there's just tactful and better ways of doing this than convincing yourselves that you have the right to know and this man owes you the truth.
and you're gonna knock on his door and lecture him about his religion and call him a hypocrite because he's not willing to own up for his decisions when he was 20. I don't know if that's the move.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. That's, that's a good perspective because when you're not in it, yeah, that sounds pretty bad when you put it that way, knocking on his door and bugging him. So yeah, I'll, I'll definitely cease from doing that and not kind of even put that in the back of my mind. And I don't think anybody else is either. Definitely we'll investigate and discover a little bit on the,
I think you guys can do a lot from the sidelines. And I think you can like, you know, you can be curious. You can even have fun with, I don't know, but like, you know, but also walk before you run. These might be people you have no interest in bringing into your lives, related or not. Like they are. Yeah. I mean, they were strangers up until 10 days ago. So we didn't even know they existed.
So, you know, just be careful what you wish for. You know, I would just be very, you know, again, you can discover a lot from the sidelines. I'd just be, take it slow and ask yourself why you're doing this.
And who's it really helping, if anyone? And that's fine if it's just like, you know, it's really not helping anyone. I just want to know because, and like, we just need to be more honest with ourselves by our motivations of why we do things. And sometimes for the story or for the plot or for the drama, it's fine. But just make sure that when you're doing that, your decisions aren't impacting other people negatively. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. All right. I will take that advice. Okay. Well, thanks for the call.
Appreciate it, Nick. Thank you so much. All right. Bye-bye. Take care. Bye. The show is sponsored by BetterHelp. People, we've been talking about therapy on this show since it started, and that's because it is important and it helps you maintain a healthy lifestyle. I mean, listen, if your mental health isn't where it needs to be, then it's just as important, if not more important, things like your physical health. And we invest so much in the things that we eat and
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How's it going? Hey, my name's Jack. I'm 37 years old, and I wanted to ask your advice about being a new dad. Okay. Well, congratulations, first and foremost. Thank you. How long have you been a dad for? Well, I'm not yet. My wife is pregnant, and it's still pretty early. We're just about 10 and a half weeks. Okay. So, you know, it's going to be both of ours first kid. Okay. I'm excited about it, and just
Just kind of wondering what your advice would be as far as being, you know, really supportive to my wife during the middle and the end of pregnancy and then into being a new dad. Yeah. What nerves do you have? I mean, I think just in general, it's really scary thinking about having the kid, all the things that could possibly go wrong. I'm a firefighter, a paramedic, so I see a lot of disasters and things like that that could go wrong.
And we also, unfortunately, had a miscarriage a few months back. And I know, you know, you and Natalie also went through that. And my wife is extremely anxious. So every little thing she's worried about, and it's, it's hard for me to continue. I'm being as supportive as I can and trying to do as much as I can to help her. So.
- Well, just one, keep doing that, right? I mean, it's obviously like I've learned that, and as I'm sure you are noticing, your experience is gonna be very different than her experience. I don't know what it was like for you when you found out your wife was pregnant the first time, or this time as well. For me, it was like one of those things where sometimes you get news and it's really exciting.
And then like, and then you're like, nothing really changes, you know? It's like, I mean, weirdly, the only good analogy I have is like comparing it to like, when like you find out like, oh, it's going to be like The Bachelor, right? You know, there's this big announcement and everyone's really excited. And then, but you don't film for a while. So then, you know, you're like, all right, well, you kind of go back to your normal life and you have this really crazy news that you know is going to change your life, but that
that's not happening yet, you know? And as a father, right, there's not, you know, as a mother, you know, she feels her body changing, she feels all these things, she's already feeling connected to this baby. And I think as a father, that happens over time. You know, like once River was born,
the moments in which I found out Natalie was pregnant became more meaningful in a weird way. It's like I went back in time in a way, you know? And I think about the time in which I found out Natalie was pregnant with River has a stronger memory now that I've met River than when I first found out Natalie was pregnant, if that makes sense. Yeah, I'm more connected to like finding out or hearing River's first heartbeat type of thing, you know? Because now I have this tangible connection
where I feel like Natalie felt more connected to River or Quickler. I don't know how that's like for you.
Yeah, I know. It makes sense. We actually have our ultrasound next week to hopefully hear the heartbeat for the first time. So we're very excited about that. That's exciting. She just has been going through the morning sickness and everything like that. And then all of a sudden it's kind of starting to stop, which for me, I'm like, oh, this is a good thing. Like take the winds. You're not having morning sickness. You're not. And she's like, oh my gosh, is the baby okay? And every little thing is so hard. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, you know, the...
Yeah, it's like, well, part of the is because when, you know, when Natalie got sick, when she was pregnant with River, it sucks. And then anyone who, you know, your doctors or anyone who's had a kid before, it's like, oh, well, you know, it sucks that you're throwing up. But that's a good thing because it tells you that your hormones are working. And so, and then when you feel less sick, the first thought is, oh, is there something wrong? You know, and all, you know, the fact that your wife had a miscarriage,
Again, all you can do is, which it's a fine line between, I have found a fine line between trying to be as optimistic as possible, you know, like everything's going to be okay. Or, you know, saying things like, let's, let's just be positive and things like that, because you don't want to, you want to allow your wife to feel whatever she wants to feel and does feel right. And then there's a fine line between trying to be supportive and,
and letting her know it's going to be okay versus allowing her to, you know, feel what she feels, if that makes sense. You know, there's not a perfect way to doing it. It's just, you know, just try to, you know, bring pot, you know, the thing, the best thing you can do right now is to bring pot as much positive energy you can without being obnoxious about it. Right. And so,
Your wife is going to naturally worry about things, right? And hopefully a lot of her worries will just be that, just worries about the possibilities of things going wrong, which are natural. And as much as you can is to not invite new worries into her and your brain, right? It's your job to be positive, even if you're not constantly showing up and being like,
hey it's all gonna be okay maybe it's just your attitude is positive like you know what I'm saying like it's not that you know like it's nice to have a you know to have your partner know of your worries but I would think right now I wouldn't project any worries that you have towards your wife you know if that makes sense yeah totally so I'd start I'd start there
And just like, yeah, whatever you can do to make her life easier. You know, like I, you know, something that I'm, I know Natalie and I are really proud of is that we worked really hard to have a very stress-free and happy environment while, while Natalie was pregnant, you know? And so we really focused on trying to create a calm atmosphere, you know, and things like that around what, you know, Natalie, when she was pregnant, you know, and, and
And I think just try to focus on that. Just keep, you know, whatever you can do to bring the spirits up, to bring positive energy around your wife, I think will pay dividends throughout the pregnancy and just kind of be, you know, supportive. And then, you know, Natalie and I, we didn't do any like classes or things like that. I just really was following her lead. She, you know, she read a lot of books and she talked to a lot of people.
And I guess I just try to be supportive. And it seems like you're doing that. And then once...
you know, once your child's born. Yeah. What are the things that I should like absolutely be doing like to help her out, you know, once. Well, I mean, you know, your jobs aside, right? Like I, early on, I tried to be like, I didn't, for me, I did there, it was our job to be parents. Right. And so Natalie breastfed early on, obviously there's, there's things that are outside of my control, but like I was there to help,
warm up the breast milk. You know, if she pumped, I was always cleaning the pumps, you know, I was, you know, helping change River, you know, when, if, if Nellie had to get up in the middle of the night, you know, to, to breastfeed River, I got up with her and, and burped River, you know? So it wasn't like Nellie felt alone while I'm sleeping, you know, I never wanted to like, you know, now granted at the same time, we were very fortunate to, you know, Nellie's mom stayed with us the first six weeks and we're very lucky to
have in-laws that are easy to be around you know we both generally think that of each other's parents so we're lucky that way so we had a lot of help that you know I would try I would say yes to help that you have as long as you feel like that help is actually helping and not bringing drama and and things like that but if it you know say yes to the help that is available to you guys as long as it is actually helpful that's what I think luckily we both have have very supportive parents and
I think one thing is I'm going to feel probably a little bit of guilt with my job because I'm gone so much that those days I'm gone, I can't really be doing stuff. And it's going to be a single mom for two out of every six days. That's just the way it is with my work schedule. Yeah. I mean, and every family has to deal with that, right? You got to provide for your family. I think it just comes down to your challenge is going to be...
is that when you aren't working, you'll be tired, right? Right now, when you have your days off, that's the time for you to ideally recoup and relax and recharge. As a new dad, you're gonna have to change that mindset. Now, for me, I really enjoyed and embraced being a dad. And so-
it's not like I was in like loving waking up in the middle of the night when I had to, but like my mindset was, I get to be a dad. I get to take care of my kid. I,
I still get excited. One of my favorite parts of every day is waking up and grabbing River out of the bed and changing her and starting her morning and letting Natalie sleep in a little bit. And I just love greeting my daughter. And is there times where I'm tired or crabby? Sure. But my mindset is I get to do this. And I think parenting is hard. You're going to have moments where
you're going to kind of feel like you haven't really had a moment to yourself, you know, like you haven't really had a time to just like check out or whatever. But for me, what, what stops me from feeling fatigued or, you know, feeling like this isn't fun or whatever is to have the mindset that this is all very fun. You know, I was actually talking to Natalie the other day because Natalie's, River's at the age now where it's really, it's really getting exciting, right? So she's,
She's a little over a year old. She's walking. She's saying, hi, Dada. Hi, Mama. She's starting to talk a little bit. She's figuring out words. You're seeing her personality, right? And it's a lot of fun. And that made me, I was thinking about the other day, and I told Nellie, it kind of made me sad.
And what made me sad was, is that now that I'm really seeing this personality of hers and the way she interacts with us in this moment today, you realize just how special and unique that is, right?
that this hi, dada, you know, thing she says eventually is going to be like, hi, dad, you know, she's going to learn how to talk, you know? So these cute little quirks that she has as a baby will evolve as she matures and grows, right? And it made me think about all these mornings I've had with my daughter
when she wasn't talking, you know, these little subtle things that your child is going to do every day is going to be different. And I really encourage you to try to, you know, people talk about being present and things like that. And, you know, I'm on my phone as much as the next guy. And
And now I do a good job of like challenging each other to like be present, stay off her phones. And, you know, it's we all have distractions in our in our life. But I would really just embrace that. Right. Just embrace all the moments, whether it's, you know, a poopy diaper or whatever, your baby's crying, whatever. It's all just great. It's all just cool stuff. Right. Because you get to.
And it's like a surreal feeling when you have your kid too, because like, you know, it's yours, you know, your, your wife had this baby. And then when the baby comes, you're like, holy shit, how did this, how did this happen? It's so fucking crazy. It's like this crazy thing. But yeah,
The fact that you are excited that you're a dad and you're calling to ask how you can help, you're already a step in the right direction. So I would just lean into that and just really just be involved because it really, you don't get those, I mean, it sounds as cliche as it is and everyone, as soon as you have your child, everyone's gonna be like, it goes by fast, it goes by fast. And it really does. Like, I'm never gonna have that moment back with my daughter when she was six months old, right?
And she was like a different child than she is today, you know? And maybe, hopefully we'll have more children, but like, it's a really special time. Like literally every day is like, you know, she is such a sponge right now of learning and growing that like, I would just be as...
present as possible and like yeah just be available to help you know and then like check in with each other you know like i think that's something nally and i always could work on and do a better job i think every couple can i think sometimes it's just as couples it's very easy to kind of go through the motions day to day but just kind of ask how you doing you know how you feeling
Anything I can do to help. Sometimes it's just checking in emotionally with your partner and just saying, you know, like that, just checking in with your wife on her feelings about things and how she's doing emotionally, I think is always helpful. Asking anything I can do to help, certainly trying to anticipate ways that you can help her.
you know, like I definitely more than anything early on is to try to have her not to ask for things, you know, to just be part, like get to know her routine. Like you're as present as I am as a father, like as a mother, there's just things that now, like it's the details that Natalie like pays better attention to than I do. Like she's, she, again, she's following all the other mom influencers. She's learning these little things and these little tips and tricks that like, I just,
I don't know. I just, I don't instinctually go to learn that stuff, but pay attention to what your wife learns, right? Show an interest in what she is learning and
and, and try to learn with her. Right. So then, then you can anticipate what your child is going to need. Don't play into the stereotypes of like, I'm the dad and you're the mom. And these are mom jobs. And these are dad jobs. Like I just never really, you know, I, to me, I was like, I, I could take, I, by the time, other than like, you know, now he was pumping, but like
from the moment my child lip river was born like i felt like i could take care of my child on my own like i didn't you know what i'm saying it wasn't like i wasn't some helpless dad if nally wasn't around you know i knew how to heat the breast milk i knew how to like you know to to feed river i knew how to change her i knew how to you know i was okay and i took great pride in being like
yeah, you know, did Nellie, you know, if Nellie, a couple months after, you know, she had River, if I wanted her to be able to get out of the house, if her and a friend wanted to get a cup of coffee or something, I wanted to give her a break when she could take a break. You know, usually she didn't want to take a break. She just wanted to be by her baby. But like, I just, I wanted to make it easy for her to do that. And so like you mentioned, like two days out of the week, she's going to be a single mom. Well, when she's, when you're there, you know, like just all those things have just
you know, making life easier on her and like, and just sharing in the joy of parenting together. And I think that's the thing that Natalie and I really enjoy doing it is like, we just love doing it together. We really are a team, you know? And so, yeah, there'll be moments where you can't help, but there's going to be plenty of moments when you can.
Right. And just no one really there's no job. You know, you guys just both do it. You guys will like grow into your roles of like what you enjoy doing more than she might do or like just certain ways that you can help like the days in which you're off.
maybe that's when you get up to, you know, wake up with your baby and let your wife sleep in a little bit, you know, just like little things, you know, and just as your child gets older, just, you know, enjoy it. But is it, is any of this helpful? Yeah, absolutely. No, it makes it even more exciting thinking about that now. And I think,
making sure to be present and appreciate all those times that I'll have with my kid. And I think me and my wife do have a really good relationship, so we'll be able to check in with each other. And we do, we're a good team. We enjoy being with each other. - That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, intrusive thoughts are definitely a real thing, man. And like you said, as a paramedic and a firefighter, you see a lot of things that people fortunately don't have to.
And as someone who myself has had a relatively charmed life when it comes to avoiding real tragedy or stuff like that, you know, I can tell you, you still have intrusive thoughts. You know, you're like, you know, this, you know, it's scary because like once you have this child, you really just like you, all you want to do is make sure it's protected. So you're thinking of all the ways that things can go wrong. Try your best not to do that, right? Like pay attention, you know, and being active and, you know.
a good parent, but like you, you don't want to bring added stress into your house that you don't need to, because that's more than anything, you know, just right now it is about creating a Zen environment for your wife, you know, and the only challenge you have is finding that balance between not dismissing your wife's feelings because you're, you know, if she's being, you know, she's feeling anxious and nervous about a fear that she has,
to just try to gently bring her out of that fear rather than dismissing her fear, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, acknowledging the fear. Hey, I have those thoughts too, but let's try to focus on the pot. We have, we have a lot of positive things here and you know, it's, and just create that Zen environment. I would be very good at setting boundaries when it comes to
anyone or family or friends or otherwise of just anyone who brings in negative energy or intense energy, just, I'd be very quick to just be the, right now it's your job to protect the peace in your household, whatever that is, you know, and, and, and setting that boundary of anything or anyone who brings anything but peace to
into your home to make sure that you are keeping that out. Because right now it's about just creating a very peaceful environment for you and your wife to grow your child and have your wife enjoy the pregnancy. It's still very early. Your wife will go through all these phases in the pregnancy, but just you want to create a nice environment for her
Make her feel relaxed, especially now, anytime that she can, whatever she likes to do. She likes taking a bath or whatever. Just as much as she can relax and enjoy this time, the more she will appreciate it. And you'll be in good shape.
Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for talking to me. And I want to say I'm a longtime listener and I've gone through some pretty bad relationships in the past where I've wanted to call in and ask your advice, but I've always kind of known what you would say. And I listened to some other Ask Nick callers that have had similar situations and they've really led me on.
led me to where I am today, which is a really great place. It's awesome to hear, man. I appreciate you saying that. And it's, it's awesome to see a young father and I hope,
Yeah, I mean, I really appreciate you saying that. And it's great to see you embark on this journey. And I'm wishing you and your wife nothing but the best. And obviously, the fears of a miscarriage are real. But just stay positive. And the good news is, is what I hear from doctors, your guys' ability to conceive...
Sounds like pretty good. That's always the biggest hurdle when it comes to people who want to become parents. Very challenging for a lot of people to conceive. You guys don't seem to have that issue. And
Just keep the faith and you guys will figure it out. But just protect your peace more than anything. Be involved with each other. Be supportive. Let each other know, like, you know, be each other's biggest cheerleader. Let your wife know that you're proud of her. You know, let her know how good of a mom. Even now, she's a mom, right? Your wife feels like a mom right now. And let her know how good of a mom she is, you know, as she takes care of herself and your child.
Just really support her, make her feel good, allow her to feel, allow her to, you know, and help her through her anxiety without dismissing her feelings.
Absolutely. Yeah. We feel really blessed. We're both, um, we're the same age. We're both 37 and we were worried that it might be a little bit harder to get pregnant. And, um, yeah, we're very blessed that we're, we're in this situation right now. So, well, congratulations. Wishing you guys nothing but the best. And I hope for a very positive update in the future. Yeah, absolutely. Nick, I got one more question for you. That's completely different topic than this. Uh,
I'm a big football fan, huge Philadelphia Eagle fan. I know you're a big Packer fan. Obviously, we beat you a couple times. You did. Sorry about that. No, congratulations. Why do you guys hate the Tush Push so much, trying to get a ban? You know, because it does seem like a cheap play. Yeah, the Packer fans are really catching some heat right now. I'm kind of with most people where it's just like, you know, if...
You got to stop it, you know, before, you know, it kind of, I don't know. I see both sides. It does seem like it, like it's, it seems like kind of a gimmicky play. I will say that. But, you know, they have to find ways to stop it, you know? So I'm not upset that it didn't seem like it got banned and,
I don't know. But it is irritating on fourth and one when you know that, like, man, they're just going to get... It's like an automatic first down. But you're right, though. Like, other teams can't do it as effectively as the Eagles, so it's not like...
If everyone can do it, they would, so to speak. Exactly. Well, enjoy the Super Bowl win. You guys have a good thing going. I've seen the Packers win two Super Bowls in my lifetime, so I'm more fortunate than most. But it's been a while, so I need them to win one soon. But I'm glad you won, man. I do think that... Did you think... Did you think...
the playoff game with the Packers. Did you think that was really a fumble on the opening kickoff or did you think they got lucky with that call? Cause it sure seemed like he was down and got the ball back. It also seemed like an illegal hit. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see that game live. I was actually down in California for the fire. Oh, helping out doing the LA fires down there in Malibu. But I did see the replay of that pick of that play. And it's hard. It's hard to say, but yeah, I mean, I think it probably could have gone. Yeah.
All right, man. Well, thanks for the call. Congratulations on being a father. Thank you for helping with the fires in Los Angeles. And thank you for your service. And thanks for listening, man. And best of luck going forward. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Bye-bye.
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How's it going? Hi, it's going good. My name is Marie and I'm 33 years old and I'm wondering how I get unstuck from a relationship. Okay. Tell me about the relationship you feel stuck in. Okay. Sorry, I'm a little nervous. It's okay. Take a breath. Okay.
Okay. So about a year ago, I met a guy on a dating app. It went really well. I felt like I had worked on myself a lot for about six months, was ready to finally fall in love and meet the right person. First date went great. We even talked about possible couples therapy on the first date. Why? Because... So I brought up... I'm very trying to bring up deal breakers early, but...
It felt very natural when I first saw him. And then I brought up how I plan on going to school and if that's a problem for him. He brought up how he got divorced. So I was asking how long ago. And then like later on, I asked him more about his divorce and he said something about, oh, it just didn't work out because we divorced.
like got married too young. And I said, well, did you ever try couples therapy? And he said, yes. And he's like, I love that you asked that question. Like I would want that in a future partner and stuff like that. So I was like, oh, okay. Green flags.
Cool. So fast forward, we dated for 11 months, met his family. He is from England. So I flew to England, met his family. We even went to Paris for a weekend. He met my family, came to my brother's wedding. Very like asking, like, where are you at? Where are your feelings at? Et cetera. He was always very reassuring. I felt very respected, considered, respected.
loved in the relationship. But about five months in, I brought up like my feelings because he hadn't said I love you yet. And I hadn't said it either. But I was feeling those feelings. So I brought that up because we're just about to go to England to meet his family. And I just wanted to know where he was at. And he said that he just wants to be really sure when he says that. And I found out more about his divorce. He got kind of screwed over financially. She didn't want to go to therapy.
stuff like that. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. And he's like, I said, so you just want me to be patient? He said, yes, just, you know, be patient. So when we go to England, he says, I feel closer to you. Like everything is just going great. So much so that I was moving cities and he was actually planning on moving to the same city.
We started dating about an hour, like we were living about an hour apart. And then I moved about two hours away from him. And then he followed eventually because he was waiting on his house to sell. When he sold his house, I said, you know, why don't you just stay with me for a little bit? Because he was trying to buy another house. And so he said, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. We can see how that goes. Looking back, it was not a great idea. But why not?
Just because he hadn't said I love you yet. And I was just like, I don't know. It was supposed to be temporary. And then when he did move in, everything went great to where when he was looking at houses, he was considering me moving with him into his new house. And I don't know. So fast forward, we get, he goes to Thanksgiving with me, with my family, goes to Christmas with me, with my family. And then after the new year, he got distant and I brought up, hey, my
I feel a little disconnected from you right now. Something I'd like learn from your show to ask. And he was like, yeah, I actually think we're a little too comfortable. And like,
too complacent. And I'm like, okay, what does that mean? Exactly. I was just like, what do you mean? And he was like, I think like, cause at that point he was like, well, this was supposed to be temporary. And now we're talking about me staying here. Cause he had put in an offer on a house and it didn't work out. So then he was going to stay with me until my lease was up and then we were going to move together. Okay. And I said, basically like,
okay. And he's like, well, this was supposed to be temporary. And you kind of pressured me into moving or like staying here. And I said, no, I just expressed how I felt. And I was excited. And I thought things were going well. And you express the same thing back is what how I took that. He's like, Oh, yeah, you're right. And I was like, okay.
Okay. And so he was just getting like a little distant. And then I said, well, do you think you can get there? Like saying like, I love you. Cause this had become like a little bit of a topic. And then he had always said like, absolutely. Yes. Even before he put an offer on a house after that, he said, absolutely. And now he said, I don't know. So then I was just like, okay. And started freaking out and I don't know. So then we talked over the next like few weeks and it led to us breaking up and
And I told him like, okay, well, what do you think love is like the next day? And then he couldn't really tell me. So I said, well, maybe I said, are you still going to therapy? And he said, no. And I said, well, why did you stop? You know, you got divorced. And I found out a lot more about his divorce in this conversation and like things that he wasn't necessarily like upfront with me about. And
and he was like omitting. What were some things that you discovered? So originally when I asked him on the first date, how long ago did he get divorced? He told me six months, which was not true. And then he did like backtrack on that date and said like, oh, well, the paperwork was filed later. But it turned out it was about three months from her moving out of the house and then us going on our first date and the paperwork was filed like
a few weeks before we went on our first date. So that's a big difference than being like six months. And he said they had problems for years, but then I also found out that they were trying for a baby right before they got divorced, like months before.
And like she had a miscarriage and all of this. So I was just like, and I asked him on our first date, are you healed from all of that? And he said, yes. And I was like, well, obviously you were. Like I said that I feel like you have a mental block from saying I love you. Like, I don't know. So he said he was going to go back to therapy. And I went to my therapist and she recommended couples therapy. I brought that up to him and he said, well, let me go to my therapist for a couple of weeks. And I'm not saying no, but I just want to like...
head straight. But at this point, you guys are technically broken up? No, not yet. He was just saying like, we talked about it and he said I did a couple of things that reminded him of his ex. So he just kind of like shut down. Do you know what those things were? Yeah, it was me asking him about, he wanted to go to this festival and I had to work that day and he was going with some friends and I said, well, who are the people
who are the friends you're going with? Are there guys or girls? Cause I was trying to get that date off. So I was just trying to like, see if I could go. Well, he got really weird. And then he said, well, it's just the guys from the gym. And I was like, okay. And I was like, so no girls are going like, you don't want me to go. And he said, well, yeah, I just kind of want to go with the guys from the gym. And I said, oh, okay, no problem. Like,
I was trying to get the day off because I wanted to go. But so like things like that, I guess his ex was like an anxious avoidant where she would make him feel bad for like going out, but wouldn't want to spend time with him when he was home. But like also like, but it was just the guys you found. It wasn't like you realize that some girl was coming along to this. No, no, no. It was just the guy like. His problem, he just didn't like that you asked the question. Yeah. He just, he thought I was being like jealous.
I don't know. It's just like little things. I mean, that's a fair question. It's just like, yeah, if it's just going to be the guys or the girls, like, I mean, even now today, you know, if now he's going out with friends, I'm like, is it just going to be the girls or are the boyfriends coming? You know? Cause if it's the boyfriends are coming, then maybe I'll come. If this is the girls, I don't need to go have fun with your friends. I think he was projecting what was being triggered from his past. Okay. Because I was like, I agree. That's a fair question.
And we talked about that and he said, oh, I feel better. So then we tried to work on it, but he was still living with me while he was trying to move out. So the problem was like, I was asking like, hey, like, I just need a little reassurance. Like, you can't say you love me. I just need to know you still want to be with me and work on this. And he just was getting more distant and weird. And then we had a date night. And at the end of the date night,
I don't know, I just felt like things were off. So I was like, he's not a words of affirmation guy. And I'm very much like, I need to hear it, especially like when you show it in all the other ways, but I need to know what you're thinking. Right. So I was like, well, can you tell me something to love about me, like in a joking, funny way, like we're watching TV. And then he just like kind of got weird and was like, don't you're being ridiculous. And I was like,
why is that ridiculous and he just like kind of laughed and was being silly but saying like that's ridiculous and I said no it's not and I said I'm really struggling like I just want to know like you care and then he instead of talking to me he got up to the other side of the room and
and was like extremely distant. And then that was the night where I was like, okay, like we're having a real issue. And so then I said, I need space. Like clearly you need space. And then the week after he went out of town for work for a week. So it gave us that space and it just like felt like very matter of fact and weird. And so when he came back, I basically told him like, hey, like either we go to couples therapy and like figure this out and like have a guideline on how to like take this slow
Or we break up because I'm not going to sit here and wait around for you to figure out what's going on in your head. Like if you're not keeping me in the loop because he was basically asking for distance, but it was like indefinite distance.
where I was like I can't do that so technically you kind of ended the relationship yeah technically I ended it but he he he chose he said he doesn't have the capacity like he said I can't do it and didn't want to go to couples therapy said it was too early for couples therapy which makes no sense he said he wanted to do preventative couples therapy on our first date I was like
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's not about it making sense. He just, he changed his mind, you know? Yeah. How long ago was this where you guys broke up? We, so he moved out January 25th. So it was about two months ago, a little over two months ago. You've been struggling ever since. Well, so when we broke up, when he moved out two days later after we decided to break up and at the end of it,
I said, okay, from my understanding, I have offered to take things slow with you. I've been okay with you moving out. I've been okay. You know, like I just wanted to go to couples therapy and see if we can like work on this, but you don't have the capacity for that. And I'm not going to wait around. So we're broken up.
And I said it like that, like very matter of fact. And I was trying to be very matter of fact that day. I hadn't cried. Like I was just like helping him get his stuff out. And he just started bawling, crying, and then said that he hopes this will work out for us later. And that we're too compatible for this to not work out because we were both very happy in the relationship. This came out of nowhere. It's just, he felt pressure or whatever. I don't know. Like he doesn't even know. And so,
So that's kind of how he left it, which is basically like, you know, I hope we can be together later. And I said, like, well, I have to respect myself and I'm not going to wait around for you. And then obviously that messes with your head. Have you heard from him much in the past two months? Yeah. So about a week after he took all our pictures down from Instagram. So then I was like, OK, that's a very different signal than what you're telling me on Instagram.
Yeah. But like, it's not, I mean, that stuff is dangerous to read into, but yeah. So then, but I called him over it because I was just, and then, so then I just said, okay, I'm moving on. Cause I was just like, what's the purpose of this? So I didn't like go crazy thinking about it. And then about a month later, I had a package sent to, I hadn't gotten in his mail for weeks. And then all of a sudden I have a package for him that he sent to me on accident. Like,
Like, not sure if it was on accident or not. So then I was trying to do 30 days no contact. So I didn't even tell him about the package. And I was like, maybe I'll just keep it to pick up all paddle. It was addressed to you? No, it was addressed to him. So I was just like, I'm going to wait till 30 days and I'll probably reach out and tell him I have a paddle. So then he reached out to me a few days later. It's like, hey, I think I accidentally sent you my paddle. Da da da da.
it up. So then I said, okay, yeah, I have it. Like I was going to forward it to you, but I wasn't sure if it would go to your new apartment or what he said, well, can I actually come pick it up? And I said, sure. So he came over to pick it up and I was going to leave it outside, but I was like, I just kind of want to see where his head's out. It's been a month.
So when I opened the door, I was very standoffish, but he was like, very happy to see my dog, very happy to see me. Asked me how I was. And I just was like, good. And like very standoffish. And then after that, he texted me and was like, that was really weird.
I just want to let you know that I'm really working on myself and going to therapy and this time is healing. And you mean a lot to me. So that didn't make me feel good. You don't need to respond to this. And then that was like a month ago. So I haven't heard from him since. And you didn't respond to it. No, I didn't respond. I'm trying to be strong. I don't know. It's just hard because it's like it'd be different if it's like he's not going to therapy and he's not working on himself.
And I don't honestly like think about it. I'm like, okay, but I don't know if he has a good therapist. I don't know if he's actually going anymore. But it'd be easier if I just know like he is who he is and I can like move on. But it's just I just feel like I'm going to start dating somebody else and he's going to pop back up. And I don't know, we just had such a great relationship. And I just felt so loved and considered in that relationship.
Even though he wouldn't say, I love you. And I understand like words of affirmation is your love language, but it's one of them. Yeah. Looking back, do you have any regrets on anything? I don't want to say it's a regret because if I like for next time, like I obviously won't let somebody move in with me if they can't say, I love you. But,
I'm glad I let him because this brought all of this out. You know what I mean? So if he didn't move in with me early on, like, I think this would have just been more prolonged. You mentioned that before you met him, you were really working on yourself. Was there a relationship that you got out of? Like, what caused you to be single for a while and work on yourself? So the last few men I've dated, I feel like I keep attracting are like people that...
tell me they're ready for something and then when we get into it then they turn out to not be ready. The last one was only about a month so it's easier when it happens in the first few months but I just got way too excited about them too early and so I went to therapy over it because I was like, what am I missing? I was just being really hard on myself. What did you learn? That I need to give myself grace and that I can't know everything in the beginning.
Okay. Did you discover anything about maybe anything that you were doing at all? So like in general, like to attract. Well, I'm just wondering if it's possible that these dating situations you find yourself in with these men who you mentioned like claim to be ready and then you find out that they're not. Is it possible?
possible that when you get excited about these men, for example, your most recent ex-boyfriend, you mentioned the first date, he mentioned couples therapy as a preventative if maybe you guys would proceed with your relationship and you saw that as a green flag. And it's like you're at that point in your life where you've recognized that maybe you needed to do some work and you needed to reflect on some of your choices, right? And so right now you're trying to
be more cognizant of like red flags and green flags and things like that. Maybe in the past, you didn't even look for flags. You were just like, do I think they're attractive? Do they like me? Do I, you know, is there a spark there? I like them. Great. And it seemed like that maybe caused,
some, you know, some issues in your dating life. Now you're looking for some red and green flags, but now it's like, as soon as you find a couple of green flags, you get, then you give yourself permission to get super excited about these men. I don't think I got super excited about this one until like five months ago. Okay. All right. Because,
Because I was very like, let's take it slow. Like he had brought up things like, oh, maybe I'll take you to a wedding with me in England. And I said, well, and that was like maybe two months in. And I said, well, let's not think that far ahead right now. Like, let's just like focus on getting to know each other. So I feel like this relationship, like I talked to my therapist about it and she said, like, I've done everything I could and I've mitigated all the risks and I took a chance and it just didn't work out. And that's just very frustrating to hear. Yeah.
It's so frustrating. And sorry, it's just like going forward. It's like, I don't know. I still care so much about this person that it's like hard to think. Like, I just really thought he was my person. Like I've never, sorry. I just have to like, you know, my voice sounds like that. I just like have never felt that way about anyone.
to where I was like, wow, this is my guy. Like he's my equal. I've never like been treated like that great to where I really like, you know, he inspired me and I felt like I inspired him. Like I felt like everything was going great until he just shut down on me. And,
And I don't know. So like, my question is just like, how do I like move forward and consider other people? But it's like, I know it's like time is involved, but it's just, it's really hard when I have like this picture of him like popping back up later. You know what I mean? What do you mean by later?
Like, I feel like it's always, like, how it always goes. Like, as soon as you, like, get over somebody or, like, write them off, they pop back up, right? Yeah.
Sure. So part of that, I don't know. Part of that is, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Or just bad luck or, or just we manifest that narrative by forcing it, you know? It's like, yeah, people often circle back and things like that. But for example, let's say you went out and dated and you met a guy you'd get excited about. Well, again, that, that would be great because that's another, uh,
you know, shows that you can get excited about other people. Great. And so maybe he got wind, you know, if he caught wind of that, that could potentially spook him and cause him to reach out period. And, and then he would say, I don't want that though. Well, exactly. But what I'm saying is, is like, here you are saying, Oh, of course, you know, if I start dating,
he might reach back out as if like, just like the timing of the universe is unfair where like, of course, as soon as I start like a new guy, he's finally ready to date. And what I'm saying is in that scenario, he's not necessarily ready to date. He just heard that you met someone and knocked down your door out of a panic and then acted like he was ready to date. You know what I'm saying? Like part of this story with this guy is
him getting out of a divorce, having a hard time speaking openly and honestly about that. Like I'm willing to like cut him some slack about like some of the stuff you found out, you know? Yeah.
yeah you never like hearing that someone wasn't totally transparent and honest but like i don't know like you got to remember on your first date it's like you're a you were a stranger type of thing and he's not sure how much he should share and then all of a sudden like you guys get serious i don't know like saying you know what i'm saying like trying to have kids and not and then like three you know the timing you know six months versus a couple months you know i'm willing to kind of
let that all go in terms of like be like oh i can't believe he lied to you about that like i don't know not completely letting him off the hook but i can see a world where it's just like it's not as nefarious as it might feel in the moment yeah it just feels like i'm like i feel like i was a distraction for him versus like he wasn't ready when i was very clear
about my expectations early on like I was like very ready to fall in love and find my person yeah and he clearly wasn't like he said when I when he's after he talked to a therapist the first time when we started having this issue was I don't think I can fall in love with anybody right now like I have a lot of processing to do still and I'm like well that would have been great to know 11 months ago
It would. And I know this is a terrible, you're going to hate this answer, but you know, it's just like you met a guy who was coming off a divorce and whether it was three months, a month or six months, that's still pretty raw. Right. And divorce, I don't know what it's like to get a divorce, but it can be pretty damaging for people and really fuck them up. And, and a lot of, you know, we all, when we experienced trauma or disappointment or
or pain that we have to heal from, sometimes we like to convince ourselves that we're healed before we are. I mean, part of healing, at least for me, has kind of been faking it till you make it, you know? Just like I kind of had to convince myself I was okay before I was okay, you know? Because I had to like get out there and just start like stop feeling sorry for myself, you know? So I guess what I'm saying is just like, you know, this is a unique call because you clearly are someone who really wants to make
healthy choices when it comes to their love life. You're doing the work. You've mentioned things you've learned from listening to the show. You're clearly trying to implement this and things like that. But maybe you pushed a little too hard too fast in a way. I don't know. But I guess if you still care about this guy and it's like you haven't reached out to him because you're trying to be strong, as you said...
And yes, he wasn't at a place. It seemed like he backtracked from things he told you early in your relationship. But then you kind of got to a point, and I kind of feel like I'm contradicting myself here. But every relationship is different where it's just like, you know, a lot of times when I have these conversations with people, often women, you know, it's clearly a guy who's, you know, feeding lines. But at the end of the day, you know, I often say like, he doesn't care. You're not a priority.
You've heard me say this and you've heard the calls, right? But what you're describing, and I'm only hearing your version, is a guy who really has some roadblocks. Just as simple as you mentioning your love language or one of your love languages is words of affirmation. And that's something that he struggles with. So that's just like a compatibility thing where...
Yeah, I think he only struggles with it when it comes to saying I love you. My therapist said that he's thinking I like from what I told her, she thinks that him saying I love you is like signing on the dotted line. Maybe, yeah. Which I brought up to him and I said, I think you're making it too big of a deal than it is.
like to like you're you're well I mean like in fairness to him you're definitely making it a big deal yeah but I mean it's a big deal to you
And that is okay, but I'm just saying it either is a big deal to you or it's not a big deal to you. And if it's a big deal to you, then it has to be a big deal for him. Yeah. But it brought up him like not being ready. You know what I mean? To say, I love you. No, to like in general, like it brought up, he said like, this has just been too much too fast and yada yada. But a lot of it was propelled by him. Yeah. I know. I'm sure very unfair. I know. Yeah.
And he was able to tell me how he felt in other circumstances. We did multiple trips. We went to San Diego for our birthdays and he told me at the end of the trip, I asked him, what was your favorite part? And he said, you know, like, this is going to sound cheesy, but just spending time with you has been great. Like just being able to like,
do things and go out and have fun. So like he can tell me in those ways. He just can't say it for some reason, which is makes me crazy. Do you think if you didn't bring up this, I love you stuff, you guys would still be together? No, because he got distant. I think. Do you think he got distance? Cause you were pushing him on the, I love you stuff. No, I think cause I didn't bring that up till after he got distant. Cause I hadn't really brought it up. Like I only brought it up like when we were making big decisions.
And was like, how are you feeling? I didn't say, like, hey, I need you to say this. Like, I was just, like, assessing, like, in, um...
I think he got distant after he put an offer in on a house and it didn't go that way. And I'm glad like the inspection was bad. Cause it would have been terrible if I would have moved in with him. Cause I, I basically told him like, Hey, we're about to combine lives. Like I just want to know where your feelings are at. Like that we're still on the same page. Like, yeah, absolutely. So I was thinking he was going to say it soon, just like in a more romantic way because he's a very thoughtful guy. He leaves me notes. Like,
My, I think what kind of made him like, he went to Christmas with me and my dad made him very uncomfortable. One of the days we were there. How so? So it's kind of like a meet the fuckers kind of situation. Okay. Like,
So we were all standing around in the kitchen talking and he was like leaning by the counter and we're all like leaning on the counter, but he was leaning by this new stove my parents got. They were like super excited about this stove. They just bought it. They had a stove cover for it, which is like wood. It's like a cutting board. And he was leaning on it, I guess. And then my mom's like, oh my God, the stove's on.
When he went to the bathroom and the stove turned on and burned through this new cutting board, they were all excited about like left a mark on the bottom of it. And instead of my dad being like, Oh, no big deal. My dad was like, Oh my God, we could have set the house on fire. And like,
went on and on and on about it the entire night and wouldn't let us change the subject and was like so he had a few drinks and he can get a little obsessive my dad can be a lot I love him but he can be a lot to be around and just made the whole situation very awkward for everyone and
And so and then I made a terrible joke at the end of the night trying to like lighten the tension with him and he didn't take it well. But we like worked it out and talked about it and everything. But I think after that, like about a week after that is when he got started to get like distant and like weird. Yeah. And I brought that up and he said, well, it didn't help. But.
He didn't say it was the reason. That's probably an honest answer. Probably didn't help. So it's just more coming back to like... What do you want to do? Like what... Listen, you called in being, you know, stuck, right? And it's funny because when I like...
If there's one thing I think I'm good at or one thing I think I probably do the most on this show is helping people get unstuck, right? People call in emotionally attached to a situation and talk to me, someone who's not attached to their situation at all. And I try to basically offer different perspectives because...
When it comes to disappointment, heartbreak especially, family drama, like we just, we get committed to outcomes. We can't see our blind spots. We don't realize how much we're ruminating. And, you know, as someone who is a professional ruminator and a worrier and often was stuck in my own bullshit, that's one thing I got good at is helping myself get unstuck. And as a
And me doing the work on myself, more than anything, if I could sum up what I've gotten good at is to not ruminate over things that I can't control. And I can get myself unstuck faster than I usually could. So for you, it's like right now that why I'm having, I think, probably a harder time helping you is because it's unclear what you want right now.
Because on one aspect, I think you're doing everything you can, right? It's clear that you are trying to make good, healthy decisions. You are trying to accept the fact that while you care about this man and there's a long list of things that you really like about this man, he couldn't give you what you needed emotionally. And then you found out some stuff that felt like some untruths or whatever. And he got distant and instead of leanin',
leaning in he leaned back and and you realize i you know i can i can't make you like me i can't make you want me i can't make you want to communicate your feelings with me so i'm gonna leave and he didn't chase you he didn't fight for you he just let you go you know yeah
And then cried about it. And cried about it. So on one aspect, yeah, I commend you for, from walking away from a difficult situation. And if you really want to get unstuck, you know, the unstuck version of this is to stop
Second guessing yourself, stop replaying the, you know, the stovetop with your dad and wondering if that played a role or, or ruminating over what he said in the past that was different than what he said, you know, as the relationship ended, acknowledge that you, you know,
while it's hurtful and upsetting, not that it's your fault at all, that like, I don't know, getting in a relationship with someone who just fresh out of a divorce, even if it's six months, is a bit risky, you know? Because we want to believe that we're healed before we're probably often healed, you know? And that doesn't make it your fault. It doesn't mean that you did anything wrong. It
It just means that like, it just wasn't an ideal situation. Yeah. Now there's exceptions to every rule. And you know, like we just said, like the unstuck version is to keep moving forward. Stop ruminating. Stop looking back. Go out there and date.
Stop worrying if he's going to come back because you don't know if he is. And even if he does, you're not going to know if it's any more sincere than what he told you when you first started dating, when he was trying to convince himself he was healed from a divorce that he wasn't healed from. You wouldn't be able to believe it anyways. And now he didn't fight for you when you were available. And so it'd be easy to assume that he's only fighting for you because you're not available, not because he's healed, right? And so you don't have to worry about
being conflicted because again, you know, especially if you met someone you like, then you, you know, right now you, you can't envision the person you like because you haven't met them. Right. And now you are worrying about meeting an imaginary person. And then the person you're still kind of in love with showing back up in your life. And that's why you're conflicted because it's versus someone you don't know who doesn't even exist.
versus someone you love. And right now, that seems impossible, but like, you could go on a couple dates, you know, a month from now, and, you know, and be very excited about it.
about this person and then he could show up and then immediately you could be like, you know, I just, you know, doesn't actually not that much sad over you anymore because you're more, you know, because you just can't predict the future. So that stuff you're worrying about right now, you need to just challenge yourself to not, you know, it's like you can't predict the future. You don't know how to read, you know, you're just reading into scenarios and that's just taking up a lot of your energy and that's what's making you stuck, right? Yeah.
So you should, when you're ready to date, date and not worry about a guy showing back up because, A, you don't know if he does. And then when he does, again, it'll be very easy for you to like say, you know, I'm not sure if that's what it's all about. Yeah. That all being said, listen, if you want to, I'm not telling you to do this.
And there's definitely a price attached to this, if nothing else that attach of like making you feel like you cost yourself a month of healing or something like that. But like, I mean, I guess my question is to you, do you regret not responding to a last message?
Do you ask yourself if you're playing too hard to get? I don't know. Like, are those questions? No, no. Okay. Because I think if I reached out to him, he would just confuse me more. Okay. Well, then you have your answer, you know? Thank you. I think I just needed to hear that because it's like, I felt like good about it for the first month. And then when two months hit, I just like started questioning it.
and start going through the grieving process again. So where like, I'm like just trying to keep trudging through and moving forward, but it's just like been tough because you go back and forth in your mind. You just got to try to control your thoughts a little bit better, you know, and you got to, you got to recognize when you're ruminating and you got to recognize when you're just asking yourself unproductive questions.
You know, but if you can say, you know, I don't, I know I'm making the right decision here. I really don't regret it. Then that's your answer, you know, and that's honestly growth. There's probably a version, a younger version of you that would be less confident about that answer. And if you can answer that confidently, then, then you have your answer. And it's probably the right answer because there's something that's telling you that like, as much as you love him or care about him and as great as he was, you know, all he is, is,
you know, frustration and a potential time waster. And while you're still really young, you know, you're in your early thirties, you don't have as much time to waste as you did 10 years ago. And if he really wants to be with you, he, he knows where to find you. And if he really wants to fight for you, he can fight for you. I think one of the things that's stressing me out is I'm starting like a graduate program this year. And I know I'm not going to have any time for dating for like the next three years. So it was like, well, yeah,
I mean, you never know, right? But I'm going to be so busy and I'm excited that this happened before I started the program because I don't have time for like the distraction. But it was just like, I don't know. He was like very supportive and I was excited to like have that support throughout the program. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Yeah. But like, you know, if, you know, if you're going to be that busy, maybe you're not emotionally ready to be in a serious relationship or have the time for it. Or when you're in this program, maybe that'll help you slow down. You know, because I know, you know, I know your version is like, hey, listen, like I did ask and he wanted to take a trip and I was like, I'm not sure. But like you, he still ultimately convinced you to move fast. Yeah.
in a way. When you start this graduate program, yeah, you're going to be busy, but I don't think you need to like be off the grid, you know? And when, if you meet a guy, you can be, you can use that to your advantage of being someone who like has a lot going on and, and, and he'll chase you for a while. And maybe you just won't, you won't even have the time to move fast, even when it feels exciting and right. And even when it feels all green lighty and because if you've learned nothing at all, you've learned that feelings change.
And things that we say in the first six months of a relationship are just more responses to feeling good moments, not necessarily how we feel. The first, it's like you have to wait till conflict happens. You have to wait till your parents make your partner feel weird. And then the partner's like, well, if I marry this person, this is, oh, they're going to be in my life. Or you have to wait till there's an awkward moment.
Or they lose and there's disappointment, like not getting a house where instead of pulling back, they lean in. That's when you really know. And until that, you don't really know. And I know that sucks and I know it feels unfair, but if nothing else, that will help protect you going forward. And you can be very slow with your feelings.
And people always ask me, what's the one thing you learned from going on The Bachelor? When I first got asked that question, I was kind of like, that's a stupid question. I was in my 30s when I went. I didn't drastically change as a person. A lot of my growth that I experienced was in my 20s before I went on The Bachelor. And so I kind of resented that question. But then I realized, well, that's not true. I did learn something. And I learned that feeling in love doesn't necessarily mean you're in love.
Because like being on that show is a manufacturer environment. You can feel it's designed to elicit strong emotions, you know, and when two people meet, especially when people meet, you know, one coming out of divorce, the other person is someone who will maybe they didn't get divorced, but has had their own relationship disappointments.
you know so it's like you both meet you're both like you're both commiserating over past frustrating experiences and here you are talking about potentially going to couples therapy and you both sound like enlightened open people and like that can be very exciting and that can be that can make you feel certain feelings but like again that's not necessarily love you know yeah well we didn't talk about like we didn't commiserate i don't think i'm not saying you did i'm just saying like like
All I'm saying is be open to the possibility that when you have strong feelings about someone and you care about them as a person and they treat you with love and they make you feel loved, well, that is all nice. And maybe you do love parts of them. But again, like the love that, you know, when you say I love you, I'm guessing when we, any of us say I love you. And when we fantasize about love, about getting married and having a family,
we're talking about a love that is deeper than just, you know what I'm saying? That wouldn't cause someone to be able to just leave the way he did, right? Or, you know what I'm saying? So like, while you felt love for him, you know, it just wasn't ready to be the type of love that you wanted. And I think maybe you accepting that and being a little bit more patient with that and recognizing that you can have strong feelings for someone and it can be a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily mean like a deep,
family love of like truly being one. Because that does take time. You can fly across the world to meet their family. You can take trips together, but that doesn't necessarily bond two people together. Sometimes that just takes time. Sometimes you have to get through adversity together and things like that. And you guys never really got a chance to do that. So a lot of what you're sad about is the potential of the relationship.
even though you dated for almost a year, it was mostly based off of potential. You saw a ton of potential. All these notes he wrote you, all these nice things, all these green flags were very exciting for you. It made you more excited about his potential. You know what I'm saying? But it was still all potential. It never was actual things that you could really trust. It was his potential. Yeah. I feel like we did work through like a few small things, but nothing like crazy. Yeah. And I only say that just because you don't like,
You don't want to get, you know, the problem with, you know, love and heartbreak and disappointment and trying and failing is like you get kind of, you get burnt out or you feel like it's nothing's working and you want to quit. And, you know, it's just like, it feels unfair. And that's what I'm saying is like telling your, you know, having the narrative of, I thought I found him. I really thought he was my person. It was, and that didn't work out is like, yeah, it's a sad story.
you know? Yeah. But it's also, you know, a different version of that is, yeah, I mean, you know, I definitely got excited. It was a definite bummer, but like I got a little caught up and a lot of his great qualities, but I just like, I, I really, I,
I didn't listen to myself as well as I should that like coming out of divorce was a lot for a guy who like had a hard time being completely transparent with all the struggles of his past marriage. You know what I'm saying? So like, yeah, he should have been honest. But also part of that truth is that he probably just had a hard time being honest because he had a lot of fear of being accepted. He knew if he was honest about it, I would leave. Like I would be like, okay,
Yeah. So, you know, and again... That's what's so frustrating is I feel like guys like... No, we all do. It's not just guys. We all can... You know, so... But... I don't know. I just... I don't know. But my point is what you can learn from that is six months from a divorce, just assume they're not healed. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
And that doesn't mean you can't date these people, but it means you really need to take it slow. And again, hurt people are going to want to convince themselves they're healed before they are. They're going to want, you know, that's a normal response. But the part that you seem to be the most hung up on and hurt by is the fact that you asked the questions, you wanted to take it slow. And he was the one who says, no, no, no, no, no, I'm fine. Let's travel. And that's the part that
you seem to be the most angry about and most hurt about. And I say this as something that should help you, even if it irritates you right now, is that you still played a role in that. And it's not completely his fault. And I'm not trying to blame your fault. I'm just saying you can...
Like these situations are most frustrating when it's like, yeah, that's, that really sucks. There's nothing to learn from that. That's just bad fucking luck, right? Those are the worst because there's nothing to do from it. And what I'm sensing from you is that is how you feel. But the reality is, is I think there is things you can learn from this, not to beat yourself up and be like, I should have done this differently. I should have done that differently. It's just that it's not just the worst luck possible. It's just, yeah.
you know, you, it cost you a few months that you would have otherwise not want to, you wouldn't have wanted to fall for a guy only to worry about missing him right now. Yeah.
I don't regret our relationship. It's just, you know, I've been getting out there. Like, I've been going to volleyball and run club and meeting people. I've been asked on a few dates. You have this journey. You have this new, you know, like you have, you already have a future planned out, right? And so. I just got to get through one more month and I move away and I'll be a little older.
Well, don't waste this month. Again, my advice to you is to not sit there and try to get through this month. My advice to you is your life is about to change with this program for the next few years. And as sad as you are about this, you know, do not waste this month by just trying to get through it. I'm not. I'm going to the beach with my craft.
today there you go but i still you know i'm not ready well your big challenge is try not to like when you catch yourself ruminating when you catch yourself second guessing just know that like you are making the right decision as hard as it is and you don't know what's going to happen in the future but like you know for for you to take this guy back he's going to have to get some through real change and real healing and that's going to maybe take some time some real time
And so, I don't know, maybe it is a blessing. Maybe, maybe he won't be healed. He'll be healed right around the time you got out of that program. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? So like, it's, he'll just get to skip the whole thing. You have to believe that you made the right decision. Yeah. That was the other thing that might've scared him too, is me going into the program because he supported his ex-wife through the same exact program. Sure. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, that would definitely be true. Yeah.
Also, yeah, it's like, listen, you jump into a relationship, you want to be a top priority for your relationship. And when that person, and again, I'm not trying to, I'm glad that you're doing this. But yeah, when someone else has a big thing, a project or a job or a school, there is a fear that this person, their priority is going to change and I'm not going to be a top priority. And yeah, that's a legitimate fear for people.
But more importantly, you needed someone who was capable of not being triggered by it. I asked him multiple times. Yeah, I know. You got to get over that. You got to get over the fact that you asked him and he gave you an answer that ended up not being true. Like you do have to get over that. That's the part that like...
You have to recognize that just because you check in with a partner and then you initially get the answer you looked for, maybe this is something you're not listening to yourself of what's causing you to ask these things. What's causing you to ask these things is the feeling that maybe they aren't ready or there's a real hesitation. And like, you know what I'm saying? And then you're looking for permission to ignore your instincts by asking them. And then when you get the answer you want, you're like, oh, well, I asked. Yeah.
And then like you're, and then you can go back and be like, well, I asked him. And that way as a letting yourself off the hook by not listening to your gut. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe, I don't know. Talking to you, you having asked him, that's it. That sets you off more than anything. You're you get riled up when I, yes, because it's my anxiety because I like look for things because I'm trying to like make sure it's going to work before I invest feeling. Well, you have to, I think I would listen to yourself more.
And especially when it comes to asking people to be honest with themselves about their feelings, if you're compelled to ask because you want to check in, just listen to that a little bit more, especially when you're checking in for permission to move things forward. You are letting yourself off the hook and excusing yourself from listening to your instincts because you check in with these men.
Because you have a sense that they're not ready. And then they tell you they are through their actions or their words. And then you move things forward. And then that at some point they get spooked and you're like, but I asked you three fucking months ago, man. And like you told me. That is exactly true. Because I saw in the beginning, um,
He didn't take down his photos from his Facebook with his ex. And that bothered me. And I talked about it and he finally did like five months in, but he, he was like, Oh, I just don't go on Facebook. That was his excuse. But again, you knew like you're, you, you noticed something. It felt off.
You asked him about it. He gave you an answer. It's kind of a bullshit answer, but like you would rather believe his bullshit answer. But then he took them down. Like he finally like... Yeah, but only because you kind of forced him. Well, because I asked, I just told him like how I felt. Sure. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying though? Like that's what... But you know, listen, you met a guy who got off of a divorce. You suspected he wasn't healed, right? Yeah. There were clear signs he wasn't healed. Instead of like...
accepting those signs and taking it slow, you told him how it made you feel plus like checked in with him. And since, you know, and that makes sense because you develop feelings. So then now he's, now immediately he is trying to consider the feelings of this new girl he likes while still trying to consider his own feelings about moving on from this past trauma. And then that's all of a sudden things are cloudy. And now he doesn't know if he's doing it for you or himself or what, you know, it's just like, he's trying to do right by you. Right.
right? Or right by himself. And that's the part where you not listening to your instincts and you just saying, you know what? Yeah, I feel a certain way, but more than anything, this is telling me this guy isn't healed. And I could ask him and I can check in with him, but he's just going to give me an answer that he thinks I want to hear or that he thinks he wants to believe. Because if he's not healed, then he's probably not in a position to give me the most
healthiest and honest answer. So then you tell him how you felt. And then immediately now his priorities have changed to making sure you're okay rather than he's okay. That makes sense. That makes total sense. I think that's exactly what I needed to hear, honestly. So not that I'll be in the exact same situation again, but if I was in a situation similar, would you just recommend like taking it really slow or like just being like,
pressing instincts and being like both i mean both i mean listen like i don't you know next time you if you meet a guy who just got out of a relationship let's just assume that he's not healed well yeah but i just mean in instincts in general like because usually like if something comes up i try to talk to somebody about it and see how they're feeling because i don't want to like read into something that i don't know you know because there's always something yeah you're right it's a challenge it's a fine line but again like a a guy who's
who's having a hard time removing photo of his ex, even if divorce or let's say as a guy, you know, his...
He's like, you meet a guy, he's not divorced, but he's like, yeah, it was a five-year relationship and we broke up four months ago. It's like, yeah, he's probably fucked up about it. You know, that's five years of his life. It's five years of memories. It's five years. You know, that's what I'm saying. So like, that's just like, this man's learning a whole new life. Like, would you get over that in six months? No. And I didn't know all the details until about,
Like not even all the details. I think, I think it's a, I think it's a combination. I think right now you're ignoring common sense because of when you get excited. So like, I think you got to take a step back, whether it's checking in with your therapist or checking in with a friend that you, you know, isn't like the friend who wants you to buy the boat. Who's this excited to like hear about your dating stories, you know, like whatever it is, but like, it's, you have common sense and you,
You're just not listening to your common sense in moments where you're making excuses by like, well, I want to check in with them. And there's a difference between trusting your body and listening to common sense and being the person who overthinks and creates drama, you know, because, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? And it's a case by case basis, but I think, you know, the difference. It is.
I do want to say one little thing, though. When he originally said six months, he also said, well, we've been having issues for years. And it made it seem like he had like slowly like displaced himself over years. And I was like, well, I can relate to that because sometimes you're done with the relationship before it fully ends. Sure. You know what I mean? So it's just like I ask him what do you mean by that?
No, my first date. And that's okay. But you know, again, maybe, and then, cause it is a first date, but maybe on the third or fourth day you could revisit and you're like, well, what'd you mean by like having problems for years? Cause that could mean a million different things. And,
you can have problems for years and still wish it worked out. You know, you can have problems for years and still be heartbroken that, you know, when, when I first got engaged and found out she cheated on me, I just like part of the heartbreak was I couldn't believe I got engaged and it didn't work out. I couldn't believe I bought a ring and,
And it was sitting in my drawer. It was the embarrassment was the shame. There's just a lot. There's a lot of feelings that go into heartbreak. And it's not just losing someone. It's it's the feeling of failure. It's the fear of what society is going to say about you. And these are all feelings he had to work through as a human being going through a divorce. I just don't want to feel like I was like splitting hairs and like asking for so many details, you know.
I was just trying to have fun and get to know him. No, I know. I'm not saying you did anything wrong. It's just I'm getting the sense that you were looking for permission to move faster than you knew you should. It felt really good. There were a ton of green flags, and you found ways to ignore the red flags by asking him if he was okay moving forward. And once you got the answer you wanted, it was like, oh, well, he said he's ready, so I'm good to go.
let's, let's go to, let's go to England and meet your family. Uh, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and you know, you get what I'm saying? You know? So I think, yeah, I understand. So this call is really helpful, really helpful. All right. Uh, well have fun on your, on your date at the beach. Uh,
whatever just enjoy it just again you're gonna he's gonna come up in your mind you just check yourself when you catch yourself going back and asking those ruminating questions and you're analyzing things you've already analyzed and the best part of this call was you me saying you know i gave you a window to fight for this guy and you were like no i made a good decision and like you should really that that's the best yeah answer you have fight for him if you
But he's not. And I bet you've been a person who was willing to fight for people who wouldn't fight for you in the past. So that's progress. And that's something, that's the thing you should be most proud of. That's the thing you, you know, when you, when these other questions come in your mind, you let it go because like this, you have the answer and the, you know, all these other stuff will just, it'll play itself out. Well, thank you. I appreciate it so much. All right.
Take care. Let me, I would love an update how things are progressing in a few months. Yeah. All right. Thank you. All right. Take care.
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