Session 78: Maren Morris
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Hi pussies, welcome back to Therapus. Hopefully I'm still in France and having a great time. And on tonight's episode of Therapus, we have Maren Morris, who I absolutely adore. Her song, The Bones, got me through like a lot of COVID-19.

It was really, really important to me. So being able to talk to her about her new album, Dreamsicle, which is amazing and out now. So you should go stream it. It was so incredible. She is so awesome. She's so cool. She also sings one of my favorite songs of all time, The Middle, obviously. And she's just like, she was so cool and fun and the greatest. So yeah, hopefully we will be having a lot of fun in France. I'm supposed to be in Cannes right now.

So maybe I'll be speaking on a panel or doing something fun. To see if I'm coming to a city near you, go to passthatpuss.com and click live with Jake Shane. And then to submit a tell me what's wrong, go to passthatpuss.com and click tell me what's wrong and leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy. Love you, pussies. You said I smelled good, which is like my highest compliment. You do? What scent is that? I just found it in New York, so I always go to like Scent Bar because they have an L.A. location. They have a New York one, but...

But it was this brand. I think it's called... The guy's... He's like a DJ in Chicago named Zernel Gilly. But he does these fragrances that are all like... He has one called Jazz, one called Hip Hop. I think he just came out with one today called R&B. But I bought the Hip Hop one. And that's what you're wearing. Yeah, it gave me like summer vibes. I think I need a new scent. You know when you're like, I need a new scent? Yeah, it's like...

a changeover of look and life is just a new smell and everything I know you feel like I have a new personality today um yeah literally you should it makes me feel so much better when I like change it up it's it is the best compliment in the entire world to be like you smell good yeah I kept getting that at Coachella and I was like thank you so much oh my god what were you wearing

I think I was just wearing this Tom Ford perfume and I was putting on a bunch of deodorant all the time. Yeah. And I think that was it. I thought you were going to say Irish Spring, of course. No, what's Irish Spring? It's like a bar soap. Oh, what?

Like classic, like dude bar soap. No, yeah. I wear Old Spice though. Love. Yeah. You know, it's a classic for a reason. It is a classic. Okay, wait. So you have a new album coming out May 9th. Yeah. Dreamsicle. Yes. I'm so excited. I listened to it this morning. It's fucking incredible. Thank you. Oh, so it's fresh in your ears. It's fresh in my fucking ears. I'm obsessed with Because of Chorus. Oh, my God.

Because, of course. Because, duh. Because, of course. I just love the title as well. Like, it's just like, because, of course. I think because it's one of those sayings, sometimes my country music brain will kick in of just like things we say to each other. Even like with my song, The Bones. It's like, when the bones are good, we turn so many turns of phrases into songs. And that's kind of like, because, of course, I was like, how could I apply this in a way that is a love song, but...

feels really like it could be any type of love, like romantic love, friend love, family love. Because I actually wrote it about my son, who's five now. And I was like, I'm always going to love you because, of course. Right, because of course. Yeah. Is that like a country thing to do, like when you pick a phrase and make a song out of it? I think, yeah, because it's like so much of it is clever, turns of phrases. When I think about Dolly Parton or Loretta, it's always like some...

everyday saying that they've made into a song and then it becomes even more solidified in the ethos. As it stands, this is day after Coachella. Yeah, right now we are doing the day after Coachella and you performed technically three times.

Yeah. You did it Thursday night. You did the LA Philharmonic and then you did Zedd. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I forgot about Thursday. Yeah. It was a full week and I was like, for someone not on this lineup. You might as well have been. I was like asked, I mean, by both people, like I was going to do the Zedd thing. Like they asked me months ago if I would come out.

And I was like, yes, of course, because of course. Because of course. But then L.A. Philharmonic reached out a few weeks ago and they were like, we're having a bunch of guest artists come in and sit in with Gustavo Dunamel, the conductor of the L.A. Phil. And they were like, what song would you want to do with this group?

Giant orchestra and gospel choir. Right. And I was like, well, I have a song called My Church and that feels like it would fit perfectly. And it was at golden hour. The set was just so beautiful. And yeah, I was busy. I was like, yesterday was my bed rot recovery day. Do you like to, did you watch anything when you bed rotted? Yesterday? Yeah. I caught up on Black Mirror. Oh, yeah.

Oh my God. Except I have one episode left. Oh my God. You just saved my day. I totally forgot there's a new Black Mirror season. Yeah, you have to. Is it good? I really like it so far. Yeah. I mean, I need to watch the USS Callister sequel episode. Oh, there's a sequel to that? There is in this season. Got it. So I'm excited because I loved the first one. But yeah, after this, go binge. Because I finished my show last night. What was it? Do you have your, seen The Leftovers?

Like the one on HBO? I haven't in a very long time, but I love that you're going back into that. Yeah. Archive. I went into it and I finished, I watched all of season three yesterday. Oh, cool. And it was just like my life was changed. That is the last thing I thought you were going to say. What did you think I was going to say? I don't know, like White Lotus or I guess Last of Us premiered last night. It did. So I got to catch up. Well, I watched The Leftovers because of White Lotus, because of Carrie Coon. Oh, got it.

Got it. And I was like, they were like, well, she's also in the leftovers. And I was like, huh, might as well give it a try. But you're a Bravo girl, aren't you? So good. I am. Yeah. Not like as hardcore as you think. I think I'm a loyalist to Beverly Hills. Yeah. And then I think recently just became more obsessed with Below Deck. But I've been on Watch What Happens Live five or six times now. And I feel like...

a Bravo-lebrity at this point. I feel like being a Bravo-lebrity is like my life goal. Yeah. Like it's the coolest thing on planet Earth. I think someone was talking about it like a serious actor because now they'll do those retellings and they'll have like Ralph Fiennes come in and do a scene from Salt Lake City. Actually, I was just on there last week with Elizabeth Moss. Oh, wow.

And she did a dramatic reading of a Sutton Strack. That's incredible. Scene. Yeah, it was insane. Do you have a favorite Beverly Hills castmate?

I've watched since season one and like, I've always loved Kyle and you know, her family dynamic is crazy, but like she's someone I've met in real life and is very friendly and warm and like normal. And, uh, but I think like they always ask me like, who would I bring back? And my answer is always Lisa Vanderpump. My answer is always Brandy. Really? Yes. I love her. I just like, I, I,

Okay, I love Lisa Vanderpump. My issue with Lisa Vanderpump was that she couldn't take the heat when she got called out. The second she got called out, she left. I know. Like, did she even go to the reunion? No, she left mid-season and fucked off. That's right. She was like, I'm done. I'm going to Vanderpump Rules. Which is also the best. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I just miss the, like...

Maybe it's not so much her and her clever quips and the interviews I miss, but I miss that era of Housewives, like Beverly Hills, where it was like Taylor and Kim. Yes. Bonkers. Kim was, oh, I loved Kim. Oh my God. Such good TV. I just feel like seasons one through like four of Beverly Hills are like really golden.

Oh my God. We were fed. Fed deeply. It was so much, like really dark, heavy stuff too. Like season two. Oh, that's the darkest season of Housewives I've ever seen. It's insane that they put that on television. I mean, it's, it was incredible. Yolanda. Oh, Yolanda. When she's introduced, like pre-Hadid takeover. It was just, Beverly Hills is, Beverly Hills is, I watched Beverly Hills and I watched, do you watch Salt Lake? Yeah.

A little bit. It's like one of those things where I need the full bandwidth to absorb a new cast. Right. Yeah. You got to get involved with Salt Lake. I've heard it's like top tier, one of the best of the franchise. It's right now. It is the best. In my opinion, like it is the best. There's like an FBI arrest on camera. There's like there's everything you could want in a Housewives show. Okay. Sick. I'm in. Speaking of FBI, I think Teresa is going to jail again maybe. Oh, no.

No. For taxes again? I know. It's like you can't escape it. It's like the housewife curse. I know. Like, don't go on camera. Everything's going to be unearthed. Everything. Yeah. Everything. And that's what happened with Jen Shaw. That's what I heard. Yeah. She got arrested on camera on a Sprinter van.

It was seriously one of the most, that made me watch the show. Yeah. They were like, she got arrested. Oh, I remember who I was thinking of, the serious actor. I saw in an interview recently, Tom Hardy was talking about Below Deck or something. No way. And I was like, you're watching Bravo? I'm obsessed. In your mind, who's the hottest house husband? Well, I can only talk about Beverly Hills because that's like the only people I know. I mean, like, I met Mauricio. Oh, wow.

In Aspen, actually. Yep. Checks out. Yeah. It was like years ago and it was with the whole family. Kyle, all the daughters. So beautiful. So sweet. And he was really nice. Like, you know. He's drop dead gorgeous. Yeah. He's looking good. He's looking good. Can I ask you about you are on one of my favorite Taylor Swift vault tracks of all time. Really? Yes. You All Over Me is one of my favorite vault tracks. Oh my God. Thank you. Well, I didn't write the song, but I was like, thank you.

No, but you're on it. Yeah, it was bonkers because I think it was deep, deep COVID pandemic still. I was in Hawaii and that was pretty locked down too. But my producer, Greg Kirsten, was out there during lockdown. And it was my first trip out of Nashville since COVID. And I brought my son who was like a year at the time. And I remember recording, like Taylor's team had reached out about doing...

a song on Fearless, like the re-release and Fearless is like my favorite Taylor album. So I was just freaking out and it's such a beautiful song. It's also so reminiscent of how I discovered her and the age I was when I discovered her and she and I are the same age, but I was just jolted right back into like high school me and no, I mean, it was just so cool to be, so I recorded my vocal in Hawaii for You All Over Me

It came out, still kind of pandemic-y, but then she had me out at the Arrows Tour, the Chicago run, and I got to do that song with her. I've never, well, not that I'm always on a stadium stage, but just an acoustic song in the middle of that many people and that energy and excitement. It was just so...

It's such a respectful crowd because they are wanting to hear every lyric and every word and nuance. And she does all these new songs each time, so they don't want to miss a second. And it just felt so loving. Was everyone screaming the lyrics back? Yeah. I mean, in a respectfully nice volume because they wanted to hear her. But I think, no, it was insane. Just very out of this world. But she has that about her where...

She's aware of the magnitude of her, but then she will bring you in in such an intimate way and make you feel like...

because it's a very jarring concept. I mean, it's an artist that, you know, has toured a very long time. I'm in like theaters, amphitheaters, you know, that's kind of my vibe to kind of come out of the hydraulic lift and then the mile of catwalk to her. I mean, it's a lot. I'm like out of breath by the time I get to the end and we have to like sing the song and she's doing it, you know, five hours every night. But I don't know how she did that because

Because the show is so fucking long. Dancing, full production, singing, outfit changes. I mean, the stage. I remember on the Reputation Tour, I was out. She asked me kindly, like, out to do the middle back in 2018. I remember. Or whenever. Yeah. Yeah.

And even during soundcheck on the reputation tour at like Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, which is where I'm from, I was out of breath. And she's just got that stamina from doing it so much. I was like, okay, I need to start doing cardio or something. Just sing on this kind of stage. But no, I have to imagine like what that does to your body and voice like that many hours, three in a row.

Show three? She did like six in LA with like one day off. Oh my gosh. And I was like, how are you doing this? Was she so lovely to work with though? She is, yeah. And she's just such a normal person. And I know like, I don't think I would be able to be normal at that level because, and especially being famous since childhood. Right.

I think I would have already had a mental breakdown and in there or rehab like, like long before. So the fact that she's just so grounded and so much of that, I think it's like having her family out, like close people around her. Like she's so loyal to, like she's had the same team for so long for the entire time. I know it's really rare. Yeah. I,

And it's, yeah, I'm obsessed with her, obviously. So you went to the LA show? I went three in LA and then I went one in Vegas. Amazing. And then I was supposed to go in Vancouver and I couldn't make it. Oh, dang it. And I was super upset. I,

I saw two of the, no, wait, no, yeah, I saw two of the shows on the Arrows tour and because I went to the Jersey one just as a fan. Was that MetLife? Yeah. Oh my God, I'm so fucking jealous. I wanted to go to that. She released You're Losing Me that week and I wanted to see it so bad and she was only selling that song on CDs at the MetLife show. Oh my gosh. And I was in Singapore. I should have got you one.

Well, I have one now. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Love. Do you have a favorite Taylor Swift song? I mean, I'm such a nostalgia addict that I always go back to the ones that

I would psychotically listen to and it would just crawl into my brain. I feel like love story was the first song where I was like, this feels pop, but it's her. And it just kind of broke these walls of, um, genre in my brain of like, okay, um,

anything can be anything it's just as long as she's the guiding compass of it and I think that had a lot to do with me um feeling fearless um you know in my work and like not worrying about is this you know to this or that is this still going to be country like you know uh just genre bending um and it was a huge hit um

I feel like everything I'm going to pull is out of Fearless. No, it's your album. Everyone has that one album with her. Yeah. Do you feel like you're... Because I was... I feel like I couldn't pinpoint a genre on Dreamsicle. Do you feel as well that it's very genre-bending? Yeah, but I mean, I think all of my records have had that going in it because I put my church out in 2015, right?

And like, that was very soulful country kind of gospel-y in moments. And then my next single after that was my song 80s Mercedes, which was completely different sonically than my church. And I did that intentionally because I was like, I don't want to be pigeonholed in the sound of my church. I want to show people what I'm doing on this full record. And 80s was very pop, pop synthy, um,

you know, but still kind of like nostalgic, you know, Nashville lyrical to me. But no, so I think all my records have had that element of genre fluidity, but yeah, with this one, it feels like I stretched myself out of a comfort zone of what that is. And yeah,

I worked with Naomi McPherson from Moona. Oh, I love Moona. So much, yeah. Like, I worked with them on my song Push Me Over, which is on the record and was on the EP. And then I worked with Naomi again for Cry in the Car. And I just, like, it was the best two days. And, I mean...

I was like, I would love to continue along that path with them. But yeah, I mean, that's a lot more pop. But then you'll have moments like I did Holy Smoke and Grand Bouquet with Jackie Antonoff. And that's like extremely, you know, in moments country, a little bit like Elliot Smith vibes on Grand Bouquet. I don't know. It's like it's all over the place in a way that makes sense to me and for me.

I was obsessed with it. I was listening to it all morning. Thank you. It's incredible. Thanks. It's so weird to like talk to someone who's heard it because I feel like not many people have except for my closest friends and team. But yeah, I'm so glad you like it. No, I love it. It was so – it like made – I was having the worst morning and it like made my morning so much more enjoyable. Yeah.

Oh, that's such a high compliment. I mean, it's such a mood shift, like music that just takes you out of your own head for a moment. That's like the point. That's like my favorite thing in the entire world. I really, I feel like I connect with music the most when it's like in a TV show I'm watching and like, it's like there's a sync that's super powerful. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, like, of course the one that comes to mind is, you know, what made me obsessed with Imogen Heap was like the OC. Right, right, right. Playing hide and seek. I was like, who, what is this?

And then it started like a, you know, 20-year obsession with her. Well, you... I was about to say, you've been doing this for 20 years. Yeah. It wasn't your first album. It was independent and it was in 2005, right? Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. You were 15 years old? Yeah. I was like...

I was a baby, but I had been playing shows and kind of touring since I was 12. Wait, what? Yeah. So it's been a very long road. I think I did not get my, I didn't sign with a major label till I was 25. So it was, you know, thank God. Like, thank God, like those independent releases were just kind of for the community I had in Texas, but I was not anywhere ready to be independent.

on a world stage or any way public facing back then. So I was like, I've considered myself lucky. Cause I feel like at 25, 26, you have gotten out of those like insecure ish years of not knowing who you are, having identity as an artist or woman or person. And then by then I was just like very confident in what I had to say. And, you know, I, I was also like, I had the leverage of, um,

my church kind of already streaming really well. And so my label just really respected and, you know, my wishes for what the sound was going to be and the, the, the visuals and, you know, they really let me cook. Yeah. Do you think my church was like your memoir? You're like, I made it. Yeah. I mean, that started everything for me, that song. And, um, it was my first single. It, um,

won me a Grammy. I remember that whole first year just doing all of these things that felt even bigger than country music. Like, I don't know, just going to the Grammys was really insane. And then doing SNL, like just through that song, it brought so much in so little time to my life and it introduced me to the world. And I mean, I think it was a couple of years later when

I did the middle with Zedd and that was kind of like a new version of, whoa, like this music is beyond the States. It's like worldwide. So I've had a few of those moments in my career of like, holy shit. Did you, sorry, did I just interrupt you? No, this is your show. No, but you are the guest. I have like the worst problem with interrupting people. I'm like really trying to work on it. I feel like I've gotten better though.

You've been lovely. You've been lovely. You're such a pro. Oh, you. I'm obsessed with you. I think I could hang out with you all day. I'm obsessed with you.

I know. I was like, I'm surprised we're talking about music because I'm glad the first part of this interview was just Bravo. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. The important stuff. Yes. Yeah. Wait. So did you when you did the middle like, OK, like when you're like making a song like that, because I also listen to that this morning again. And I was like, what a fucking classic that is. You know, like what a classic. Like it's a classic. That song's a classic. Did you know in the studio you were like, I've just made a classic with someone?

I didn't write the middle. I was sent the demo for it years ago. I was on vacation and I had been sent a few songs before just through other people's teams of like, would Maren want to be a part of this? Because this was like a very...

interesting time in music and country music where people were starting to do collaborations with pop people. And, you know, that's always been a thing. You know, it's like I go back to Dolly Parton and Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris doing the Trio record. Willie Nelson and Ray Charles. I mean, there have been...

these collaborations over the decades that are extremely genre bending and historic. But any who, like fast forward to this era of like country artists collaborating with DJs and big pop people. I think like Florida Georgia line was, they had that song with BB Rexha. Holy. Oh, meant to be. Sorry. I'm seriously about to chop my own head off. I literally said it. Yeah, I know. I know. I said it with such confidence. Holy.

Oh my gosh. Meant to be. I can't remember if meant to be was already out or it was about to come out, but I'd been sent a few songs of like, would Marin want to put her vocal on this or finish the second verse and vocal on it? And nothing just connected with me thus far. And then I was sent the demo for the middle and.

I didn't know who was singing on the demo, but I was like, this person's amazing. Why are they looking for outside singers? Whoever's already on this is... I don't know how anyone could beat this or recreate it even. And they were like, that's the co-writer of the song, Sarah Ahrens. She's not an artist. She's a writer, but she sings her ass off. And I was like, you know what? I cannot stop listening to this. I'm listening through my phone speaker on the beach. And

And I go back to Nashville and I put like a rough vocal on it just to like send it in and be like, do they even, does my voice even make sense with this song? And they were like, they love it. Zedd's team loves it. But there's a couple other people that are doing this for the song. And I think they're going to go with this other girl. And I was like, oh, well, you know, shit. Right. Shit happens. It is what it is. Moving on.

And then like two weeks later, they were like, something happened. Like that girl dropped out or something. I don't know. It has another song coming out. She doesn't want to compete with it. They would love you to put like a proper polished finished vocal on this. And I was like, I don't know. Like they passed on me. Right. I was feeling a little bit.

you know petty salty yeah and i was like maybe it's just not meant to be um if they've passed on me and my manager janet she was like you love the song right and i was like i do she's like just it would be a huge thing and they already have this huge plan behind it like they want to shoot the video in two days they're gonna premiere it at the grammys during the commercial break

you know, it's already got like momentum. They're ready to go. You just need to sing it. And I was like, all right. And Zed flew out to Nashville and we like cut the vocal the day he landed, spent a couple hours in the studio. I had not met him and he was so sweet and such a gentleman, but also like really particular about what he wanted because he just, we all loved Sarah's demo. But it was so funny because like I met Sarah,

At the Grammys, like when everything was getting, you know, premiered and we'd done the video and she's Australian, such a funny little badass. Like she's my height. And we kind of realized because we started writing after that and we wrote my song Girl and like she's just, she and I have very similar vocal tones. Like we're a little bit smoky alto. So I think there's a reason why Zedd heard my vocal tone

fitting it so well because of Sarah. But no, it was just one of those moments where I sort of like always talk about when the middle came out overnight, it was everywhere. Really? Like you woke up and it was just suddenly like it was number one and everything. Everyone was freaking out. I don't think it was number one yet, but it was like I was seeing people send me videos of like them in their cab in like Taiwan. Right. Hearing it. And I was like, holy shit. And it felt like

That scene in Josie and the Pussycats where, like, all of a sudden they're like, we're number one in the world? And it was, like, so unrealistic. But that's kind of how it felt. And then, I don't know, it was just off to the races. After that, it was, like, our song was everywhere. It was in every store, commercial, like...

It was bonkers. But, I mean, it brought, like, a world of people to my music. Right. What do you think... How did your life change, like, after that song came out? Because you had already won a Grammy. Yeah. You were already a Grammy Award winning artist. Yeah. And, like, I was known in my, you know, community and, like, country music. But then...

And I had been touring overseas and whatnot, but, like, that – when you have a song – I mean, like, pop music, EDM, that's just such a global type of music. Country, like, only in the last few years has become –

that sort of popular. But, yeah, no, I mean, being a part of it, it changed my life. And then singing it at Coachella the other night was just so insane because it's like, of course, he has so many hits in his set, but you just know when that song kicks off. It's a moment and with all the, like, fire and just...

Just you could actually, I could hear like the vibration of how loud the crowd was, which is hard when you have in your monitors and you're like so far from them. It was that loud. So I was just like, it's one of those evergreen moments.

It is. That just sticks around. Well, it's a timeless song, too, because there are no – I mean, I could be totally wrong, but I feel like there's no references. Because, like, I feel like what makes a timeless song is, like, a song that could technically be released in any year, any time. Because, like, kind of like 1989 by Taylor Swift. Like, there's no references to cell phones or anything. So, like – or TikTok. And, like, it's just, like, such a timeless song.

Perfect song. Oh, thank you. I love it. Yeah, it's like very rare in a career that you get maybe one of those or a couple. But yeah, that was one that, I don't know, it's just stood the test of time. It's been like six, seven years and...

It still hits. So it was fun. It still hits. I'm so mad. I missed that fucking set. I was, I was already home. Oh, dang it. I was already home. I woke up. I went out Saturday night. I got home at 5am and I was like, fuck this. What did you do till five? I don't know. I seriously don't know. I think I was just dancing. Cause after the like Coachella lineup ends, there's like more to do, right? There's like a separate. Yeah.

There's like, and I, Charlie XTX had an after party. And so I went there and it was just like, it really kicked off. And like, and I was flirting with this guy the whole night. And like, I was like, I just, I'm not going home. Till the sun comes up. Till the sun comes up. Those are my. You know what? You deserve that though. Thank you. That's a fun night out. Thank you. I had one of my most fun nights out though in Nashville the other week. Yeah. Yeah. I went to losers. Nice. It was very fun.

I have frequented that bar many times in my 12 years of living there. I actually started writing... I have a song on my first record called I Could Use a Love Song, and it was technically my first number one song because my church didn't go number one. But I started writing it at Losers. Really? Yeah. I was like...

with my co-writers and it was 11 a.m. but we were all having like the worst morning and one of us had a flat tire or got a ticket on the way. It was just like something was off and we were like...

Should we just walk across the street and, like, get a beer? It feels like that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And we started that. And then, no, we just, like, started through conversation, like, talking about these lyrics to what we could write that day. And we walked across the street and, like, wrote it in 45 minutes, did the vocal, and

everything done. And then I think we went back to losers and had another beer. That's amazing. It's just, you know, Nashville y'all. It is Nashville. I love Nashville. I'm glad I've, I've been twice. Okay. I've had, okay, wait. So I went to this, where have I gone? I've gone out to some really good restaurants there.

I went to this new Chinese restaurant there. It was amazing. I totally forget what it's called, of course. I mean, the food in Nashville is insane. It is insane. In the last decade that I've lived there, because it was starting to pop off when I first moved there 12 years ago because the show Nashville had just started.

I've never seen that show. I mean, it's iconic. I know. It's basically like a primetime soap. I know. I've heard it's amazing. The music is so good. It's with, what's her name? It's Connie Britton. Hayden. Hayden Panettiere. Yeah.

Chip Esten, like, it's a great cast, but, like, the music is so good because everything for the soundtrack and the show is written by Nashville songwriters. Oh. So everything's about how songs are made on Music Row. Right. And how they become hits. I mean, I will say they dramatize it a little bit. Of course. It's like how Scandal dramatizes the White House. Yeah, but, like, if you're a songwriter and you get, like,

your first cut, like a song that makes it onto an album. And it's not even a single, like you're not getting paid shit. Oh, really? Unless it's a single. Right, right, right. But how old were you when you moved to Nashville? I think I was 23. Got it. Yeah. So I've been there since then. And I mean, all my like, best friends that I met through those co-writes that, you know,

Co-writes are like blind dates because you are meeting someone and you're supposed to pour each other's hearts out within moments of meeting each other. Cause it's like, Hey, where are you from? Um,

Okay, so I have this song about how I tried to kill myself three years ago. Like, that's what you're doing that day. But that's how you meet people really quick and you, like, realize if you're, you know, going to be besties for life or if you just repel one another and have no chemistry. Have you ever had that experience where you've had, like, literally no chemistry and it's been, like, pulling teeth to write a song with? Yeah. I mean, it's...

I'll always try to finish a song even if the day or the song sucks. But there's like those occasions where even with people that I love writing with, sometimes it's just not there and you're trying to write and write all day. Maybe you'll like go to lunch and come back to it. And then you're just like, guys, this sucks. Like everything we're writing is dog shit. Let's just go. Like we'll try again next time. Right. But then you'll also have, you know, first timers with people where you're like,

I hate this whole process with you. Like, I think we can just, we're not meant to work together. Was the, was the bones, uh, an easy song to write or was that when you had to come back to it?

That was an easy song. I feel like some of my biggest songs have been the ones that came easily, strangely enough, but. That would make sense, I feel like. I guess. Yeah. But it was, it was just an idea. So, um, my co-writers on that song, uh, Laura Beltz, Jimmy Robbins, we had written hundreds of songs together that I love. Like they were the ones I went to the bar with. Yeah. And, um,

So we had such a rapport, but then the bones was an idea that Laura brought in because she and her husband were looking for a house. And she was like, there's this thing our realtor keeps saying, like if the house is like kind of shitty, they're like, yeah, but the bones are good. So she was like, I just keep hearing that this week. I feel like we should write about it as a relationship. And so that's what we did. And I think it was one of those songs that was done in under an hour. And then I did the vocal and I,

Don't think I realized in the moment that it was that kind of special. I was like, because maybe I write so much with them. Everything we write is kind of special. But then it wasn't until I was playing it for people, like just like friends. They're like, oh, can I hear the Bones again? Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of when I know that they're like my focus group of like what songs are going to do. But no, it just that was a slow burner of a like.

It came out. I realized on tour, every time that guitar part would kick in at the intro, the crowd would freak out. And I was like, this feels like it should be the next single if this is how people are reacting. It ended up being my first country into pop crossover song that ended up on the Hot 100. Other than the middle, but this was my song. This was your album. I wrote. So, no. And then we did a...

I just kind of towards the end, I was like, they're like, we would love to do like a special version of this song. And I was like on tour and my friend, Rachel Beauregard, uh, who was singing with Hosier on tour at this moment, like reached out to me and she was like, Andrew's like humming this all the time. And I was like, maybe I'll just, I never do this. Like have the, this, you know, the gall to reach out to artists that I love. But I was like, I'm

I'm just going to see if Hosier would want to do a duet version of the bones. And he said yes and did it like within two days. Wow. Yeah. It's just had like many lives. It really, that was my COVID song. Your COVID. Yeah. It went number one right at the beginning of COVID. Yeah. Which was like,

very bittersweet because it was like, yay. But also we can't have a party. Yeah. We can't do anything. Yeah. It was just my co-writers and I did like a zoom champagne toast. It was such a bummer. But then I had so many people reach out to me during COVID saying that that song meant so much to them. It really did. About like the world at that moment in time, but I couldn't tour and enjoy the success of the song until like 2022. And, um,

That was kind of when I got my flowers for it. Right. I just felt that like energy from the crowd singing it back and it was so emotional. It's just such a comforting song. I feel like it was like, cause it, you know, it was like, as long as like the bones of what, like, cause we were all so away from each other. So as long as like our, the bones of our, all of our relationships were good, like we'd all be fine. Exactly. Yeah. It kind of felt like a world anthem of like, we're in the homestretch of the hard times and it's going to be all right.

God, sometimes I'm like, I really do you like look through the past with rose colored glasses as well?

I mean, yeah, because I'm delusional. So rose colored glasses are always on for me. But I think because I just love and maybe it's like the millennial in me, but we love nostalgia. But me too. And I was thinking like Harry Potter. Yeah. Like we're going to get a Disney adults. Yeah. The whole all of that. Yeah. All the cliches are true. I was just thinking I was like sometimes I like miss quarantine and I miss covid. Yeah.

But then like. I do too. Did you enjoy it? I mean, I, okay, I'm coming at this a little bit different from you because I was nine months pregnant. Oh, wow. In March of 2020. Oh my God. So I did the Houston rodeo, which like if you're from Texas, that's a huge deal. We didn't go. We didn't go. I was, I had a tour date that week and why didn't we go? I don't know.

God, I'm such a loser. In 2020? Or like recently? Literally like four weeks ago. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's a moment. It's just like the stage revolves while you're on it. And I was like nine months pregnant and I was like terrified I was going to go into labor. Right. Or fall like on this revolving stage. I mean, it's like moving slowly, but it's like a 360 stage.

But yeah, I gave birth like that next week, I think. And it was while everything was starting to shut down. And we were just, I mean, my ex and I were just like, what are we going to do? Is our family even going to be able to meet our child? But then like as months passed and we're like in quarantine, we were already going to be stuck at home because of a newborn. But then it was kind of nice because it was like,

I want this time to myself with my baby and I don't want to feel like that guilt of missing out on things. And I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. But there are moments to like, I just miss just that whole like era of music performances and comedy and tick tock and everything was just its own thing.

of pop culture in that moment. It was such a... Everything was so... I think it's because everything was so maybe like universal. Yeah. Because everyone was doing the same thing at the same time. Everyone was watching Outer Banks at the same time. Everyone was watching Tiger King at the same time. Everyone, you know, it was just so... We're all like cooking for the first time. Yeah. It was just like everyone was experiencing this thing on a world level and there was something really deeply comforting about that. So strange. I feel like...

God, it just, I mean, I never want to do it again. Sure. But like. No, it sucked because it's like you can't go and tour. You can't go to shows. I think the music industry was hit so hard because, well, at least like in a live sense because you can still go like stream a movie or, you know, they moved everything to streaming during that moment in time. But.

Yeah, like the touring industry was just like... Shot. Yeah, because like the crew, even like local venue crew, they can't go to work. There's just like so much was paused. And I feel like even now, it's been five years. It's still like, it took so long to get it back on the rails. I feel like it's just now though coming back. A little bit more. Really hard. Like I've seen so many live shows in the past like year and two years and like...

I love live music. That's how much I realized I loved it. Me too. We didn't get to do it. And like, I feel like my, my favorite feeling in the world is falling in love with the song as it's performed live. Oh yeah. It's there's like, it's like the most euphoric feeling in the entire world. And I, I didn't realize how much I missed that during COVID. Yeah. And they're just, there's artists and bands that like,

You might like the song, but when you hear it live, it is just a transcendent, okay, now I'm a lifelong fan. Right. Like that's just an energy that you can only have overcome or overcome you in a live setting. And it feels spiritual. I don't know. What song do you think of when you think of like a moment like that?

I was just talking about this earlier today with Glam. I was like, I saw Mumford & Sons at Bonnaroo in 2015. And I had heard all the songs, you know, Little Lion Man, The Cave, I Will Wait. Like, I knew those songs, but then...

Seeing them live at Bonnaroo, which is like a particular experience because I've been to Coachella as, you know, an artist, but or like a guest artist, actually. But Bonnaroo is a little bit more hippie, like same lineup sometimes as Coachella, like on the stages. But, you know, it's just a little bit more like hipster.

Right. I guess. Right. And just everyone's so happy to be there and the crowds are wonderful and I don't know, it hasn't been like Coachella-fied I suppose yet. No, Coachella is like, it's past the point of a music festival I feel like. Yeah. A real true music festival. Respectfully to Coachella. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I've only seen it through the lens of like playing a, you know, a song but...

Yeah, it's definitely, like, an interesting vibe in terms of going to, like, Lollapalooza or Boston Calling or Bonnaroo or, like, ACL. But, yeah, I mean, but every festival has its own, like, vibe. But I will say, like, seeing Mumford...

Bonnaroo in 2015 was a transformative experience for me because they are such a festival band to me. And Marcus, I didn't realize, is an incredible drummer. Oh. He gets on the drums at one point in the show and I was like, holy shit. Like, I'm... I've been converted. Like, I'm a lifelong fan. And now I've, like, worked with him. But I... No, I was just...

Those are the only things that happen at music festivals. 100%. Yeah, just my morning jacket, incredible festival experience. Kendrick, incredible festival experience. I don't know. Like, I wonder if Taylor would ever do a festival. She was supposed to before COVID. Really? She was, like, supposed to throw her own, like, lover festival. That's right. Yes. And then I want to say she was supposed to do Glastonbury. Mm.

Oh my God, I would love to go to Glastonbury. Last night I was like, I'm going to go. I'm going to go and I couldn't. You should. I couldn't. I'm busy over the dates that it is. And I really wanted to go so bad. That's like a dream festival for me. Me too. Me too. It sounds, I think I would have the best time. But I would say that. I love the Brits. Me more than anything. Yeah. More than anything. I love being over there. It's low key my favorite city in the world. I just, I think because I've gone so many times, like since I was a teenager to now, I've

And have friends that are there. It's just such a... I don't know. I just feel like a different person there. I feel like really settled in. And the food is so good. I don't know if you like drink or if you like martinis. Yeah. I fell in love with martinis in London. That's the place to do it. Yeah. I mean, Duke's...

Bar, which is like kind of known because if you've seen the Blake Lively like Simple Favor movie, she talks about how to make a Duke's martini. Oh. So it's iconic because of like James Bond. Got it, got it, got it, got it. Yeah, it's very British. But yeah, it's like they make your martini in a little cart table side and it's like frozen gin, frozen glass, no dilution. But no, it's like...

I feel like you can only have one. Right. You'll be fucked up. Shout out SeatGeek for sponsoring us again. They must have known I was on the road and everyone needed tickets to live with Jake Shane because the best place to get them is at SeatGeek.com. Use code THERAPIST10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order. Today, SeatGeek makes buying tickets for any live show so easy and so many people are on tour this summer. We have Gracie Abrams. We have Tate McCormick.

Cray on her Miss Possessive World Tour, which I am personally so excited to see. We have Lorde on the Virgin Tour. We have so many... There are so many exciting shows to see, and SeatGeek has all of them, whether it be a sporting event, a music concert...

a comedy show, like anything you want SeatGeek has. And also they make buying tickets so much easier on the website or in the app. They have a scale from zero to 10 to show you like what type of deal you're getting. Zero being like obviously not the best and 10 being the best.

So look for the green dots because that means you are getting a great deal. Also, click the link in my description today to download the app and have the code Therapist10 automatically applied to your account. Once again, use my code Therapist10 for 10% off your order. And thank you again, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking. Yeah!

So when we are on the road, as you guys know, Booking.com has saved us so many times because Matt likes to wait until the day of to book anything. None of us know why. Thankfully, Booking.com has come to the rescue because now whenever we wake up in a new city, Matt will go on Booking.com.

put in all of our preferences instead of just like going hotel by hotel. It shows you a list of hotels and rooms and he picks the one that works for all of us and we go to that one and it makes life easier. You can decide if the hotel is walkable, if you want a terrace, a bathtub, whatever you need, you can put it on booking.com. They also have cars to rent. They have vacation rentals so you can make your vacation as full and as stress-free as possible. And we used to get really, really upset with Matt because we would literally show up to these... It's Matt. It's Matt.

I'm so sorry for the interruption, you guys. Matt was playing with the lights like a five-year-old, and now my lighting for the Booking.com ad has been...

That doesn't stop the message, though. Booking.com is there for you and all your travel needs. If you have a Matt in your life who doesn't plan until the day of, Booking.com will help you. Find exactly what you're booking for at Booking.com. Booking. Yeah! Book today on the site or in the app. God, I fell in love with martinis. Have you ever been to the Con All in London? Yes! That's like the second best. Yes! I was like...

I hated martinis. I hated olives. I hated all of it. And I was like, with my best friend, Alice, and I was like, I got to get on board with this. Yes. I was like, I have to. It's chic. It's classy. The Kana is similar where they do it table side. Yes. Like, it's that little cart. Yes. And you can pick, like, whatever essence you want in it. Oh, my God. I'm such a sucker for, like, presentation. Me, too. And that's a whole bit of a martini. It's like... You feel like... They taste great to me, but it's the aesthetic. It's like...

the way that they, you know, do the twist or if you like a dirty olive, it's, you know, it's the whole thing. Do you like yours extra dirty? Yeah, and I've gotten recently into, like, the blue cheese stuffed olives. Now I'll... I haven't really, like, gotten into that TikTok Caesar salad martini shit. That's disgusting. And I'm a savory cocktail girl. Like, I love a dirty martini, but if you're putting, like...

Do you pepper and olive oil and vinegar in that? I'm like, first of all, how are you not shitting your pants? Yeah. That's the first thing that will happen with that. I just like, don't understand. I feel like not everything needs to be made into a drink. And I feel like with martinis, like somehow everything, like they have like hot Cheeto martinis. I'm like, this is just too much for me to bear. I just like had a little bit of like bile. Baby barf. Yeah. Baby barf.

Yeah. No thanks. Okay. I'm so excited to ask you this. What are you therapist about today? Therapist. Is this like therapized or you're pissed about something? You're pissed about something. Like I missed my workout this morning and it really fucked me up. Really? And I never, and normally I'd be like, yay. Sounds like a gift. No, I know. But like I was so, okay. So I've been doing this thing. Have you ever done EMS before? No. Okay. So it's like.

They strap this machine to you and it like, it simulates like 600 crunches. It's like the most LA thing ever. But I've started doing it on the reformer for Pilates. And like, I literally have never been so snatched in my entire life after I was like, no, I was like, what the fuck? I'll show you videos after this. I was like, what the fuck is happening? And like, my waist was like this. And like, I was the source I've ever been. And I was doing it again today. And I woke up and I was like, oh, I missed it.

So that was what I was pissed about. I think I know what you're talking about. Is it like Emsculpt or whatever? Yes, it's Emsculpt. Yeah, yeah. What am I therapist about? I'm therapist. The top I wanted to wear today had a giant stain on it.

I don't know. I'd be curious. I wish I had a cooler answer, but like I really wanted to wear that. And it was like right here. And I Tide penned it and it wasn't coming out. And I was just like... Do Tide pens work? Usually, yes. Really? This one didn't. I had the hair dryer on it too. It was just like...

Yeah, that kind of, I guess, like, your workout. It, like, throws your day off a little bit. Entirely. I woke up and I was like, okay. Yeah. Like, you know, like, damn. Yeah, I know. What now? Yeah, and then I guess I'm not pissed, but I feel like it's a weird cosmic thing that I, like, passed a coffee shop this morning that's at my hotel. Forgot that I had gone there before with this, like, ex. And it just, like, brought back feelings of, like, anger. Yeah.

But yeah, that was a weird morning. I feel way better now after talking to you. Oh, I feel amazing. This is the coolest I've been in days. Staying on the shirt, ex-coffee shop. Yes. Those are really, I really appreciate those therapist answers. I appreciate yours. Thank you. Okay, do you know about the tell me what's wrongs? Yes-ish. Okay, so the pussies submit for us.

Tell me. They like tell us what's wrong, essentially. And we like prescribe them remedies. Okay, got it. So we just like give them advice. Let's go. And it's really fun. At least I like to think so. Okay. I love giving. I guess it's not unsolicited advice. They've solicited us. No, they've asked us for help. My guy friend flirts with me, leads me on, never leaves my side when he's single. But the moment he's with another girl, he ghosts me. I hate mixed signals and psychotic men. Help.

Yeah, you're an option. You're just, like, a safety. You're like a binky. Yeah, yeah. You're a bestie binky for him. Has that ever happened to you before? No, but, like, I've had vibes because I, you know, it's like I work in music, so there's, like, tons of dudes around. Right. Like, my band, I'm always around, like, guys, I feel like, but, um...

I've never felt like friend zoned in that way or led on, but like I've seen them do it to people and it pisses me off. Yeah. Like what the fuck? Like this girl is so too good for you. Right. And she's just on your back burner. It's horrible. Yeah. I feel like you're just a little pacifier for him until he like is with the girl he wants. So fuck him. Sorry. That was like very. No, that's really good advice. Okay, cool. That was really good advice. Yes.

I'm therapist for you. Yeah, I'm pissed too. So I was on track to get back together with my ex. Then I found out he got another girl pregnant and purposefully hid it from me. I'm spiraling and lost and don't know what to do. Revenge or hear him out? Oh, revenge. Like, there is no hearing out. Are you a revenge person? I'm really petty. Yeah. What's the pettiest thing you've ever done? I don't know if it's petty, but...

I definitely wore what I wore during the Zed set for a particular person to see. Yeah. Do you think they saw it? Yeah, they saw it. Cheers to that. You have two eyes or it's that long? But no, like, that's insane. I can't believe that, well, he would do that. Actually, I can believe that he would do that. I can believe that he would do that. But no, you don't need to hear anything. You need to block instantly. Block.

Damn. Now he's a father. Yeah. Yeah, he needs to worry about that. And not for someone that you have any relation to. Oh, my God. It's not your child. Nope. Literally. Hi, Jake, an amazing guest. You. So I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. Geez, these are all the same. I know. Is this the same girl? No.

This is the same girl sending these in. I think so. So I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. I ended up getting a boyfriend and my guy friend has been super respectful and sweet about it, but I low-key still have feelings. So long story short, I cheated with my guy best friend and I don't know what to tell my boyfriend. Please help. Oh. I don't think it's the same girl. Okay.

I mean, it sounds like you want to be with your guy friend, right? I don't think I could ever cheat on someone. The guilt that would chew me up. I don't know what I would do. No, I would just... No, it would eat me. I was going to say eat me out. It would eat me up. Have you ever been cheated on before? It would eat me out inside. I have not been cheated on that I know of, but just...

I've seen people that have, and I've, like, gone through that awful exercise of just, like, spiral of, like, what if this person that I love and loves me did, like, the worst kind of betrayal to me? Right. I would be just, I don't think I could ever do this again. Right. Like, just trust someone. But, I mean, people survive it, I suppose. Yeah. But, no, like, I guess that's why I don't really have, like, a cheating song. But, I don't know.

No, with this one, I mean, it sucks that you would like get into something with someone else. I know. While you clearly like truly like this other person or love this other person. I, I mean. I think I would prescribe. You need to break up with your boyfriend. Number one, that. And then I would prescribe Unfaithful by Rihanna. Yes. I feel like that's like the one song I can think of. That's your punishment. Yeah. Where you have to listen to that. This is about you. I did this.

I got with a random guy after a bar crawl with my friends. I went to a lecture two days later only to see him sitting at the desk in front of the class. Help me, please. Do I drop the class or suck it up? So he's your professor? Wait, so they went on a bar crawl? And then she hooked up with this guy and he's her professor.

What's wrong with that? That's kind of hot. Seriously, that was my dream in college. That was my dream in college. Yeah. Okay, so the professor fantasy. Yeah. That's a normal one. Did you go to college? I went to like one semester. Did you like it? But I like to say that I did. No, it dropped out. Well, obviously. I liked my political science class. I went to like a music school. Well, it had like amazing music programs, but the programs were like awful.

jazz and classical right so I was just like they don't have anything for me um I should have like gone to Belmont or something in Nashville but I didn't know about it so I went to one semester but the funny thing is is like this college they're great but like they claim me as an alumni okay got it yeah I was like it would be cool if they just gave me like a flashy degree you should do the commencement speech and be like I never I would yeah no I never commenced

I never turned the tassel, but, I mean, you guys have me as an alumni on your website. My boyfriend and I want different lives. We've been together for two years. My whole family loves him and begs me not to leave him. What should I do? I've been there where, like, your family loves and friends, like, love this person that you're with. And it's just, you know, it's such a fixture in your life. But...

I mean, you know best. Like, you know that, you know, you've got a lot of life left and you've got to be a little bit selfish and you're going to let people down. You're going to let your mom down, you know. But it's like they're not the one...

Dating them. Also, I feel like you'd rather let other people down than let yourself down. And also, I feel like if you stay with him, you're just going to hold resentment towards those people in your life. For sure. And who's to say, like, the next person that's a better fit for you, they'll probably love too because they love you. But, yeah. No, don't do it for your family. Right. I've had that before where my friends have broken up with someone that I'm, like, literally would die for. And it's like, it's not about you. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever feel like the...

kid of divorce and you're like having to choose between mom and dad. Well, I never had to choose. That's good. But like, it was like, damn, this is sad. Yeah. It's definitely like a weird feeling when two people that you loved like split and then you're like, Oh God. I mean, my, my,

gut is always like side with the girl. Right. That's who I'm choosing. Sorry. No, of course. But I forgot, like, do you know people that have like, is it hard when like you have friends, like married friends that like get divorced and then you're like, what do I do now?

Yeah, I mean, it sucks. It's like, it's, I mean, it doesn't suck as much as it sucks for them. But I mean, it's just like an awkward thing. Because in Nashville, you know, I've been divorced for a little over a year now. It's a small town. Right. We're all friends. And we all work together. And the music industry is very tiny there. So...

You know, it's... Even though, like, I'm really friendly with my ex and we have our son, that's always, like, our biggest priority. I think that it's... It is weird because it's, like, we were together for so long that so many of our friends, like, had to sort of... Pick sides. Yeah, well, just in terms of, like, respect for each other. It's, like, I saw...

a friend of my, like a really close friend of my ex's at a bar a couple months ago. And I was with my best friend and we all used to hang out together for like a decade or more. And then it's like, damn, it's just going to be kind of weird. Maybe it's just weird for the first few years. Couldn't, I don't know. I just remember my parents always saying like, it was hard when like people would get divorced and they were like, we don't, you know, it's like tricky. Yeah. No, I mean, I think like I, I just always like side with

I always pick like the girl because I'm like, that's who I'm going to like connect with. Right. But no, I think it's, it's great. Cause it's like, I think naturally people just go where they feel loved and like supported. And, but no, I think that's just, I feel like that happens the more you get older too, is like you feel like friends sort of,

No matter what's going on in your life, fade away. Like, if they're not, you know, energetically aligned with you anymore, which is, like, kind of sad. But it's also, like... But I have these solid people that have been my ride or dies. Right. But I feel like COVID changed a lot of people. Like, when I had my son, I could feel, like, people fall away. I think, like, when you have kids sometimes. Oh, really? Because you were just, like, on different wavelengths. Yeah. I mean, like, I think...

as a new mother, like it's just already such a lonely time and you feel like very isolated. Plus it was COVID, but like, I certainly like made friends who are moms through the process. And there are like some bad-ass bitches that like got me through a lot of that, but yeah, you just like naturally kind of realize like, Oh, those people like probably put me in a different

section. Yeah. But was interesting. Did you like, how was like postpartum and stuff for you? Cause I like, I'm friends with a lot of, uh, like I know a lot of moms that are like, I just wasn't expecting it to be what it was. Yeah. I mean, everything I had to throw out the window because, you know, so the pandemic and I couldn't tour, everything got canceled. So that was enough of an identity crisis of like, Oh my God, I can't do the thing that

I've been doing since I was a kid, but I think that was probably a healthy stop for me was like, you've got to stop attaching your worth to what you do. Your work. Yeah. And that was a good lesson, but a hard one. And then, yeah, in combination with like postpartum depression, definitely dealt with that. And some of it was probably just circumstantial too, because I think everyone was like,

going through it. Right, right. In a year or two. But, no, like, I'm out of the woods now. I'm great, but, like, it's definitely an interesting experience. I think there's a lot more tools and, you know,

just things to, to look into now than like my mom's generation or her mom's. So we have more, um, help now, but like, it's, it's certainly something that I always like to talk about because I just never heard like other artists that work and are women doing this, um, talking about like that sort of lonely thing where even like your own partner doesn't understand what's going on inside your brain.

But no, like, thank God I had, like, amazing help and got on an antidepressant for a couple years and just, like, rebalanced my hormones. Like, that's all it was. It's just, like, everything's out of whack. But no, like, now I think...

it all happened the way it was supposed to. Like I was supposed to stop working and like figure out who I am without music and who I am as a mother. And now everything can kind of come back in a more equalized, balanced way. And I am happier because I'm not so tied to music as like my value system. I know that I love myself even without the music career stuff. And I love myself without like,

the Grammy or all the cool things that have happened to me because of this like work ethic and talent. But I mean, no, I'm like, I show up far better now for myself, for my son, for my friends, for my like employees and like my fans because like,

Of those like two really hard years. Oh, I'm sorry. But it's amazing that you're great now. Yeah. I was like, great. And then like, you know, the personal life stuff imploded. But no, like now it's like with all this new stuff happening. And I don't know, this whole week has just been such a like marathon, but celebration because it was like I put this children's book out.

am gearing up for this fourth record that's taken so much to kind of write for and get out and then Coachella just felt like a victory lap but no it's just like I'm so excited for the rest of the year because you know I've been through the hardest shit I've ever been through and no I think like I mean you've just heard the record this morning but I was like I'm really glad that this is not

all about grief and a, you know, a divorce. It's a lot about like what happens after, which is, you know, messy and funny and all the things like, but I, um, no, it's all, it's all in there. When did you start writing the record? Um, it was a couple of years ago. So it was a lot of stop and start with that because, um,

was touring, started writing and then I was working with Jack Antonoff and then I feel like right after I'd written with him my relationship kind of fell apart with my ex and it was just all happening at once and then I was also going through a lot of stuff with my music genre and how I wanted to put music out continuing on and where to send it to because I was just sort of

I was like outgrowing a lot of what was going on in country music and the way that I had like existed within it. And I just wanted to change things. And I felt like the only way to do that was to make really hard decisions and change it up in terms of like label and, you know, just how to.

write for this. And, um, all the while, like the, the divorce was ongoing and, um, yeah. So I was writing constantly through it. And so I'm surprised I even could show up like to the sessions because it was just, my brain was so fried and thank God for my co-writers just like pulling me out of it. It was just therapy. And, uh, yeah, I just kept writing even after a lot of the heavy heartbreak because I was like dating again and that's fucking, um,

The worst. Fun and awful. Yeah. I was like, I kind of want to write about this stuff too because it's like, I've never really gone through this. I've been like in a relationship for so long that dating in this modern world is strange. And also like, I'm...

I'm a public person. Right. Like, I'm not the most famous person, but when you're on a dating app or just, like, meeting people in this random way, it feels, like, already so exposed. Yeah. And you just feel guarded no matter what.

But no, it's been, I mean, for the storyline, I suppose, for songs, it's been interesting and helpful. Was there like, so it was like cathartic to be in the studio during all of this and like get it all out? Yeah, for sure. Was there a song that was one of the most like cathartic to write or one of like the most personal like on the record? I mean, I would say like the most cathartic was This Is How A Woman Leaves. That feels just like the most raw song.

guttural vocal I'm singing in terms of just like what I went through. But then I also love that, you know, songs like Push Me Over, Cry in the Car. I have a song coming out this week called Bed No Breakfast, which is certainly about the morning after a hookup. And I was like, this feels like a song for people, like hopefully anyone going through this, but then it felt really particular to my 30s because I was like, I really love...

my space now like this is the first time I've lived alone and had my own like house and everything I picked out is mine every piece of art on the wall is mine and just feels so empowering and I'm dealing with that for the first time like in my 30s and I have like a five-year-old and

I'm dating again. And it's also just like this place of, I don't really deal with bullshit from the people I'm dating either. I just don't have a capacity fuse for it. Yeah. I'm like, no, bye. Do you, do you like your thirties? Oh, vastly more than the 20s. Wow. That's not the first time I've heard that. 25. Okay. You're going to be fine. Yeah. That's like, you've already accomplished so much by then. So I think that,

The 30s rock because you're just out of those, like, horror story dates. Like, I feel like I haven't had, like, a massive shit show date. I've had, like, you know, some... Yeah. Yeah. I think my standards are just so high. Yeah. And, like, I just don't have enough time even to date. Right. Because I'm working so much and I have my son. So when I do date, there's a lot of hoops that the person's already jumped through to even sit at dinner with me. Right. Right. So I do think, like, I've...

waited through a lot of riffraff before, you know, you like see me in person, but no thirties have been immensely better because, well, I mean, you're just fully developed up here and you, or most of us, like, I think you've gone through the, the, the shit show phase of dating or relationships or, you know, I know a lot of friends like already got divorced by the time they turned 30. Cause it's like so many people did those, like, it's like,

early 20s marriages fresh out of college and then they're like yeah this wasn't it but no I think depending on where you are it's like I feel way more settled in myself I feel way more settled in my career I don't feel that like

pressure of like always having to outdo something that you already did. It's just like you're a little bit more relaxed. And I think that's such a gift because you just also care so much less about what people think of you. I need that. Sure. Yeah. I mean, like it still creeps in, but like you just, you start to like loosen your grip on control. And I think that,

Because you're not in control. Right. You think you are, but you're just not. And I think just allowing yourself to be humbled by the universe. And sometimes it's through the most embarrassing of events. You,

You just learn to lighten up. Right. That's been my 30s so far. I just turned 35, so I'm halfway there. Thank you. Wait, what's your star sign? I'm an Aries. I love that. I love an Aries. They're fiery. Oh, yeah. But, like, I'm a Libra moon, and that was the moon that we just had at Coachella. Yes. I just felt like, I don't know, like really in my feels the whole weekend. I think it was supposed to be an emotional full moon, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like it was a lot of relationship shifts and career shifts. I just felt like, I don't know, really held by the universe. I was like, I didn't fall on stage. That always feels like someone's taking care of me. But yeah, no, I, what are you? I'm a Scorpio. Okay. Gemini rising, Gemini sun. Oh, okay. Gemini rising, Gemini moon. Sorry. Okay.

Cool. Gnarly. Yeah, a little gnarly. I love Scorpios. It's why I'm able to talk to people, though, I think. Because, like, my Scorpio, I don't think I'd necessarily be able to. And then my Gemini, like, makes me very talkative. Yeah, but, like, old soul, deeply connected to others quickly. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. That's you. That's you. Do you... Oh, this might always be my favorite question to ask to artists. What music were you listening to while you were creating your record? Like, what have you been listening to lately? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Like...

Through my record, because I was writing over two and a half years for it, I went through a lot of phases of like, I got really obsessed with that Japanese house record. I've never heard it. I've been meaning to. So good. Dua Lipa. Just anything that would kind of pull me out of my sadness. Right. I was like, I need to hear a beat and just someone that is always on vacation. Yeah. Dua Lipa is always on vacation. I know.

I'm looking about that life. Me too. I mean, I saw like a TikTok comment about her and it was like, I mean, she's hot. She releases bangers every couple of years and then goes on vacation. Like, what a life. Yeah, she has the most incredible life and is engaged to the hottest person ever. Yeah. Wait, are they engaged? Wait, are they? Did I just make that up? They are. Okay, thank God. Like, did I just hear that like through the grapevine? And she's got like her like beautiful family out with her all the time. I don't know. She just seems so...

Happy. Hounded and cool. Yeah. I was listening to a lot of like Future Nostalgia and her most recent record. Oh, right. Because I was actually writing with a lot of people that wrote with her on this. Oh, no way. Yeah. So like Tobias, Jesso Jr. I wrote with on this album of mine. Carolina Aylan. Yeah. I mean, it was just like...

I feel like our writer worlds are really small too. And Julia Michaels. Oh, I'm obsessed with Julia Michaels. And she's on the new record. Yes. How long have you guys been working together for?

I first met Julia during my last album and she and I wrote my song Circles Around This Town, but I'd been a psycho fan of her for so long. And I don't know. She's just one of those artists that is so unique. Her identity is so strong in herself. And you can just tell like when it's a Julia Michaels co-write because I feel like

We're all just copying her. Like, because she's such a unique point of view. And she makes me feel extremely heard in the room because, you know, she's a woman. She works with so many women artists. And I feel like we've all gone through these, like, you know. Right.

And she's had that shit too where it's like she's felt like taken advantage of by people she's been with like for her, you know, artistry. Oh, wow. Have you ever felt that way before? I mean, I think sometimes I've felt, yeah, like a little bit, you know,

like pedestaled by people that have like been with me or dated me and then it's like they're not really considering like the person they're just thinking about like the talent or whatever and it just ends up like blowing up and um so she and I have certainly like

become soul sisters through all of this. But yeah, we wrote my song cut together and I was like, please, thank you. I was like, please be the duet on this. Like we wrote it together. You would kill this. And then I was on her, um, song scissors a couple of months ago and she's just like such a badass. And then we were both in the Zed, um, Coachella set. So I was like, between, um,

Julia and John Mayer, I was like, I feel like all of my buddies were in the Zed set the other night and I just felt like so much less nervous because of that. Right.

Oh, my God. I really fucking wish I saw that set. I'm so sad I missed it. I'm sad for you. I'm super, super upset about it. I also miss Gaga. Like, I just. See, I was so bummed to not be there Friday because I wanted to see Gaga. I wanted to see Missy Elliott. Right. I'm just. And T-Pain was Saturday, Friday, Saturday? Yeah, Saturday. And oh, my gosh. Like, it was just a millennial dream. I know. This weekend really was. Come on. I love millennials. Thank you. I'm like the biggest millennial defender ever. Thank you.

Thank you. I really am. We get so much, like, flack. You guys shouldn't. And honestly, I saw a TikTok the other day that was, like, Gen Z is jealous of millennials and they call millennials cringe. But, like, millennials were able to, like, grow up in that era where, like, trying was accepted and cool. And, like, that's why they're able to be cringe. And now, like, Gen Z is, like, so scared to do anything. Yeah. I think it was just also, like, the sort of gift of growing up

technology although like I when I watched the show Pen15 I was like this is a little bit too close to home because the whole episode about AOL instant messenger so we like did have technology but it was like super janky and then you know the iPhone was born but so it's like we've gotten to live in both worlds which is like you know y'all have grown up with all of it so I

Yeah, but also anytime I see a millennial cringe TikTok, they are the videos that other millennials are cringed out by too. Right, right. They were never accepted. I was like, what the fuck? Like, why are we getting lumped into this? I was like, we never acted like this. Never. That's what I always think too. Also, were you ever an iChat kid?

I chat. It was like, were you an I chat kid? What is I chat? Oh my God. You guys like Apple. Yes. It was like the, um, it was like aim on Apple and you would like video chat people. And I mean, I do remember like, um, what was this? It was, um, not chat GBT chat roulette. Yeah. That was a, that was a moment, um, in time, but I remember like the Mac book filters and all of that. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I'm currently a high school senior and I'm trying to. I love that we're still in this. I know, me too. I was like, we got so into the other thing. And I was like, wait, how am I going to go back to the tell me what's wrong? No segue. Because I was like, and I was just like, you know what? I'm just going to do it. Okay, let's go. I'm currently a high school senior and I'm trying to decide on schools. I love this tiny college by the beach, but I'm nervous that I'll miss the party scene I get at a big school. What should I do?

I think the party scene at someone who went to a big school and a party scene there, it is incredibly overrated. It's like so fun for a year. I had like the time of my life. And then you're kind of like, what now?

Yeah. I mean, I wonder if they could just do like one year there and then get it out of their system. And then go to the tiny beach? Honestly, like growing up in Texas, I was like, I would love a like intimate, you know, experience by the beach. Right. And then just like walk to class and hear the ocean. Oh. Yeah, do that. That sounds amazing. Yeah. I was in Santa Barbara the other day and like there was just like all these kids like at the beach that went to UCSB and I was like, damn.

I was like, damn, that sounds awesome. What was that show with like Britney Spears' sister? Zoey 101. Yeah, they shot that at like Pepperdine. Pepperdine, yeah. That was like my dream college. Was it really? Only because of the show. Right. But I was also like, what an amazing experience that would be. They used to have this drink in Zoey 101. I forget what it was. It was like Blitz or something. And it was like a Boof Gatorade. And like I always wanted that.

Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. I just haven't heard boof in so long. Boof is my... That was like my COVID word, boof. Like everything was so boof. Boof Gatorade is so good. Wait, what was your drink in college? Red Bull vodka or an AMF. What's that? Adios, motherfucker. What is that? Is that a shot? It was like a blue drink with vodka. I don't know. They would send me to...

Different places. But I would have an AMF or a Red Bull vodka. My best friend Peyton would make us, I'm going to throw up thinking about it, a vodka Sprite. To this day, I cannot have Sprite anymore because that was our chaser in college. Sure. And like I, I'm going to throw up thinking about it. What was your drink? I had like two. There was, we've talked about millennial stuff so much, but there was, they still make it, but it's called Hypnotic. Ooh, what's that? It's just like a blue thing.

It's also like very opaque. Like it wasn't clear. It was like milky. I don't know what's in it. Yeah. We need to find out. But then I also loved Goldschlager. What is Goldschlager? It's like a cinnamon schnapps, but it is clear, but it has flakes of gold in it. Oh, have you had this? It's sick. It was like pre fireball, like obsession too. Yeah.

But it was disgusting. It was such a moment because I thought I was so cool like with my giant bottle of like gold flakes. Me too. Yeah. That was like me with my Tito's. I would carry it around. That's still like okay though. No, I still drink Tito's. Tito's is still my vodka of choice and that was my college vodka. Same. There was occasions where I would do plastic vodka.

They would call them plandals, so a plastic candle. Okay, got it. I would wake up with the gnarliest hangovers known to mankind. Like, I would regret my life. That's sick. Yeah, it was... Sometimes I miss college, and then most of the time I'm like, no, I don't. No, it was embarrassing. It was so embarrassing. I was so embarrassing. Everything I did was embarrassing. Like, everything. I was like, I can't even look back on it. It's just mortifying. You can't even look back two years ago. Why? Why? Why?

One night I was watching Netflix on the family iPad and I forgot it was connected to my mom's phone. I saw her sex with her new boyfriend. I want to bleach my eyeballs. Are we supposed to give advice or just react to that? I honestly don't know. iPad. Okay. I, um, Ooh, this is kind of crazy. I won't say who it is, but like, I have a friend who's ex-boyfriend.

Like, they have a family iPad. Uh-huh. And I guess was still hooked to the, like, iCloud, and there were, like, dick pics on her kid's iPad. Who?

Yeah. I don't think the kids saw it. Yeah. But like she got to it before, but I was like, you need to have a separate iCloud account for your child. That's the cloud. Don't have the family iPad. The cloud's going to explode one day and like everyone's going to lose everything and it's going to suck. I'm going to be showered in dick pics. Yeah. All the whole time. It's raining dick pics.

I've been talking to this guy online who's great, honestly, but will not stop sending me memes. Like, not funny ones. It's a huge ick for me, but I like everything else about him. We're going to meet for a date, but I'm low-key debating canceling. Do I just get it over with? If you don't respond if someone sends you, like, multiple memes, shouldn't they get the idea? Men don't get ideas ever. Okay, got it. Yeah. I should have known. What's more of an ick, like, sending kind of lame memes or...

A guy sending you selfies. Selfies? Ew. I mean, that would be worth, like, canceling the date over. I think with memes, it's like, I can excuse that. You know? Because I feel... I can look past that. I can look past that because, to me, like, I would like to hear their sense of humor in person. And if it's horrible, then... You'll know. Yeah, I'll know. But no, like, I have people that, like, are so funny in real life and...

Like my band. They make me laugh constantly. We spend a lot of time together. But then sometimes like. Memes will be sent. And I'm like.

This is your online sense of humor? Yeah, yeah. So I will say, like, give it a shot on the date. Right. Yeah, because people are different on the internet. Have you had, like, the same band your basically entire career? Pretty much, yeah. Like, I've had my drummer with me since the very beginning. Oh, wow. And then the rest of them, it's, like, a couple years after that. So, I mean, it's been, like, a very consistent thing for me, luckily, because...

It's like we've witnessed all these insane moments, like career moments together. And, you know, I'm just like, I take care of them. They take care of me. Went through COVID. Like, you know, I just, I feel like it's such a comfort for me because I have all these other things going on to,

in a live setting, I want to have the people that I've always had around me. Of course. And you know, sometimes life stuff happens. Kids have had, you know, been had and I think, you know, sometimes people move away or, you know, that kind of thing. But for the most part, I've had the same crew.

I feel like that's the best feeling in the world. Yeah. Because you feel like you've, like, climbed something together. Yeah. And I think, like, you just till your own soil and you treat people with kindness and, like, take care of them if you can't. I mean, I think, you know, one of the proudest moments of my career was being able to put my band on salary and, like, give them health care. Right. Because up to that point, they were just, like, day rate people. Right. But now it just feels like, you know, I –

I want to have those people succeed as well. I'm taking care of, right. Are you planning to tour this album? I am. It would be weird if I didn't, but everything's still like in the pressure cooker. Like it's, it's cooking. Um, but I have a lot of ideas, but I'm just trying to get the music out first, not cart before the horse, but I, um, yeah, I'm a road rat. You love it.

I love my bus. I've recently just started touring and I enjoy the bus as well. Oh my God. It's the best. It's just such a step up because when you go from...

Well, like I started in 15 passenger shitty vans. Right. Like a sprinter van feels like an upgrade. And then you move up to the bus and you're like, I've made it. I guess beyond that is like private plane. Right. I like stepping onto wheels, going to bed and then waking up in the next city. Do you get it? Do you sleep well on the bus?

Most of the time, yes. I think it depends on how good of a driver you have. Right. If it's a really good driver and they're not like at 3 a.m. veering into the rumble strips. Yeah. Yeah. Like that will wake me up. But I also like...

I'm kind of addicted to Z-Quil and just like conk myself out. Let me sleep. Let me sleep. No, have you had let me sleep? Oh, I thought you were saying let me sleep. Is this the Kardashian thing? Yes. Is it melatonin? I don't know what is in it, but it's the reason I missed my workout this morning. You slept that good. And I only took one. Sometimes I take three and it's like 20 hours. Whoa. Well, the other day I got an IV with Benadryl in it and I slept for 19 hours.

It was wild. You IV'd Benadryl? It's seriously. Did I just say yeah? It seriously was the sickest thing. I started to see blurry like I couldn't see. It was like I was given anesthesia and I passed out for 19 hours. Good for you. It was awesome. That sounds like a coma. It was. Okay, Maren, what did we learn today? I learned that...

You have a lot of grace for millennials. I do. I learned that whoever is writing into your show, we've got to have some integrity lessons and build some self-worth. And I've just had a gay old time. I've had a gay old time with you too. I think this is the most relaxed I've been in a while. Did you sleep 19 hours? No, I slept like 10. Did you Benny yourself last night? A little bit.

I learned that you're a road rat. And I've learned once again that your 30s are better than your 20s. Yeah. I mean, I have heard your 40s are better than your 30s. So I think it just gets better. That feels aggressive. Yeah, that's far for you. It's not that far for me. No. I got to be looking down the lens of it. No, I think like.

I don't know if it was like Kate Winslet or someone else like badass, but it was just about like getting to age at all is such a gift. Beautiful. Yeah. It comes with like some traumatic lessons and experiences. Hopefully no STDs. You just get through it. But yeah, I think for the most part, as you get into it further and further and hopefully you're going to therapy and

Getting therapist. Right. I think, yeah, I would hope that you're feeling more in your skin each year too. Yeah. And like, you know, also I just feel way less like judgmental of myself and others because I'm not looking side to side every time I do something. I'm not comparing. Right. I'm just like trying to get through what I'm doing. 100%. And do the best. Well, you're fucking crushing it. Thank you. And I love you and I loved spending time with you. I love you.

I've been obsessed with you since my discovery of TikTok when I was like trying to figure it out. And I feel like you were one of my first doses of it. Oh, this feels really full circle for my career to be here with you. Oh, my God. Marin. Yeah. Stop it. Stop it.

Stop it right now. I actually adore you. And I feel like we need to get a drink. We do. So, okay. I'm here a lot, but you need to come back to Nashville. I need to take you to Sperry's. Yes. I want to go to Sperry's. I want to come back to Nashville and I want to drink with you. Okay. Yeah. Let's maybe avoid our college drinks. Yes. And get a martini. Martini. We'll do a martini. Or let's go to London.

I would love to go to London with you. Maybe next year. Let's do. Well, we'll see each other before that. But let's do a Glastonbury. Yes. Duke's weekend. Yes. OK. Or Connott. Done. Done. Cheers. Cheers. You want to say a little bye pussies? Bye pussies. Oh, you're so chic. I'm obsessed with you. I love you. I love you. Thank you for coming on. Thank you.

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