TWiT 1001: The Anti-Force Entruster - Tesla's Cybercab, Hacked Robovacs, Mario Alarm Clock
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It's time for tweet this week in tech. Oh, I love IT. This is going to be fun. Jennifer er, a pattison two is here. We'll talk about home automation with her sambo sama car guy is here, will talk about elon musk bold claims this week for a tesla, an amazing feet for.

And if you're gonna a break up google, how do you do at plus? Have we finally learned the identity of sophana moto? It's all up. Next.

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like connection with your friends, your family, every connections or enriches your life. And that gives you something that I provide. High speed internet, just in the context of this show is so important. We'll be talking about something here.

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Podcast you love from people you trust. This is twit. This is to IT this week take episode one thousand one, recorded sunday, october thirteenth twenty twenty four, the atty. Force trust.

It's time for twitter this we can take the show we get together with some of the best minds in the business to talk about the weeks tech news. And of course, after the tesla event this week, I had to bring in sama bull samit, our car guy, host of wheel bearings, the wheel bearing the podcast, a whaler's on media. He also is a an analyst for guide's insights, where he writes about automotive technology. Hello sam.

Hello leo.

How are you to you? I am. Well, it's great to have you on the show.

I'll always got you back also with this.

somebody who is new to the show. So let's same. Let's consider that and be nice.

Okay, Jennifer patterson tui, you know her because, of course, she's on techniques weekly every month, but it's great to have her. She's the smart home mama at the verge dot com. I Jennifer.

great to hello, hello. So so thrilled to be here. Bucket list item well, I didn't know this.

You mention that you'd been to the old studio of the broca studio. And yes, we didn't get to talk .

at the time, but i'm lad on the show. welcome.

And you have you have covered on a motive. You we're talking about that before .

the show I have that was a long, long time ago that yes, I did get to drive one of the first when the first brought out its v they I went on a press trip to monteiro and we got to dry the the gramm per circuit, which leos you point out is basically just the streets of monday, colo, but still really fun up into mountains.

When we visited a few years ago, we stayed at the fairmont that's on the on the hair pin turn and there's a black there. And so now when I watched the race, I know that's that very you got ta get on to basically nothing. Get around that.

So did you watch? I didn't. I'm sure sam did elon's hollywood back lot.

It's actually appropriate that was on a backlot surrounded by fake buildings, showing off what is a sense really a fake robot taxi, a fake drink making robot. Um the whole thing was a fake. Yes, let me .

little come on. I think be a little harsh.

You well, okay, so he showed this though, this is thirty thousand dollar two seater cybercafe did get in IT and did drive off in IT. The idea is though that this is a is autonomous vehicle, like a way o right?

That is, uh at least the story that they tell. Yes story tel .

be cleared thursday night.

The the event was supposed to start I T3 pm pacific um which is ten P M my time here and my wife and I decided， you know, instead of watching that, lets go out to the lake and watch the arbor. Alice, I was just I cut the super cut on the verge on friday .

morning yeah so you're like me. You just didn't want to give real and all that time no, this car can Carry two occupants. There you go. No steering wheel because you're you're passive writer on these things and he says twenty twenty .

seven well um .

keep in mind that in october of twenty fifteen, he said that full autonomy was one at most two years away and he's been saying that pretty much every six to twelve months ever since then. So and and they still don't have a system that is capable of safely Operating without human supervision. So yeah, it's uh I would be shocked if a well, I would be shocked if we ever see this thing, at least in this form. Um and I don't I don't foresee A A robot taxi business for tesla anytime in the foreseeable future.

This is the robot van, which looks like very safer, very cool.

Deco, yeah.

it's that yeah, really a deco. This was way all in them, the little crossover.

I thought that the over just looks like at the next generation, really.

Yeah, I like the snow zy gold color that is kind of fun. But but mean, there are already people doing this, but they still don't think tests are still not going. We have to do this for two more years at best. IT seems seems like they are really over promised and under delivered.

why? Why would elon do that? What's what's in IT for him?

Tesla's share Price, their market valuation is greater than the next fifteen in the largest auto makers combined.

combined, combined, gm, ford, santis. All of them mush together still or not as worth as much as test you.

On friday, the day after the event, tesla s market cap dropped by more than the market cap afford.

one eight percent, but that was more than ford was worth, so about fifteen billion dollars. In other words, IT didn't pay off the market, did not buy his right for the first time, really did not buy his fabrication.

IT wasn't the idea meant to be that we were going to be able to use our testers as taxes that in twenty .

nineteen yeah and and like .

test is really value valued more like a tech company than a car company, right? I mean, there's because of these types of promises. So I guess, I mean, so what yeah why did I drop? Why would people unhappy?

A major, a major component of tesla evaluation when financial analysts on wall street IT come up with an estimated where a target Price for company, uh, shares, they're looking forward at what they think the revenue is going to be at some date in the future.

And in text less case, a major component of their valuation is based on the premise that they will be able to suddenly one day turn on a new software version on other vehicles and and just magically overnight start generating billions of dollars in new revenue from robot taxi services based on all the vehicles that they've sold roughly for about three, about three million vehicles in the U S. Uh in total. Um and however many overseas right now and you that they will just flip switch and always suddenly have this new revenue stream there.

There's some people like Kathy wood of are invested, you know think it's gonna a trillion dollar business, a trillion dollars in revenue um which is just it's insane um it's something that's not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future, at least any time and probably in the next decade. Uh and the I think now what a lot of people overlook, what a lot of people that not so familiar with the technology overlook, is that this is actually a really hard problem to solve. Uh, tesla has not solved that.

No one else, no one has solved IT fully yet. Know everyone that doing this is still doing IT on a very limited basis. Some way o is doing more than anyone in terms of commercializing IT.

They're running uh, they're doing over one hundred thousand paid drivers. St rides a week now in sanford, cisco, los Angeles and photo x and there's supposed to add Austin before the end of the year and perhaps used to as well. But um there there's actually a lot it's doing this business is actually a lot more complicated than just flipping a switch, taking out the driver and um magically profits appear.

Um because when you do this, you you actually end up adding a lot of new expenses, especially you know for right healing company. You look at companies like uber and left, they don't own any the vehicles or they don't own any the physical assets. So um they were lying on drivers to to come and bring their vehicles to the platform.

The drivers are there in the car when IT when IT comes to fueling the vehicle or cleaning IT. If someone leaves me, get dropped something or leave something behind or get sick in the car. Um the drivers are to take care of IT um with H A driver less vehicle yeah now you have to have systems in place, you have to have depos, you have to have systems in place to enable charging.

They did show or they they talked about wireless charging for this reaction, uh which know is actually not a new technology IT exists is out there today. Um but now you also need to have either staff or robots to clean the vehicle. All of this adds new expenses that are replacing the expensive of the driver. Uh and so the so far no one has yet figured out a profitable business model or robot taxes.

So so is IT hype.

Yes, told and .

it's not even .

very credible hype. I mean, the stock market didn't buy in.

They didn't this time. They have consistently for the last decade, but they didn't this time. Yeah.

I mean, I would love this, but you like to try wolf so many times. You can only say this is going to happen next year so many times before people go yeah sure you on yeah yeah. It's really eatery complicated.

It's very hard. And then, of course, there are people in the chat or saying immediately, well, they're always slam y on. He kind of puts himself in the, in the way of that you make .

yourself the both people .

are going to take shot. My model, lex, I bought IT. I put a priority down before I was available. I got one of the first model xs went down to the factory to get at least. And I and I was, I was kind of in tears as we wrote around the factory, because I was so inspired by the vision that elon had expressed in the manifestos of a Better world, thanks to electronic vehicles, electric power by batteries and then later, autonomous vehicles. But after while you start thinking this is kind of not happening, we got rid that model lex because I kept t trying to kill my wife SHE called a Christine um now but I got okay so much to give him some credit. Okay um did you see the rocket launch and capture that he did space ex launched ed, the superheavy starship on an unpiloted test and then use the chopsticks to to catch IT.

Yeah, this is kind of impressive. This is this money.

impressive?

yes. Yeah, very yet this morning.

Then maybe that's one of the reasons we give him so much credibility because he does do amazing things.

His companies do.

people that work for do.

I mean, he's money. He's he the brains at the top is is he the mastermind or not?

I mean, no. CEO is mastermind of anything. I mean, can't tim cook invent of the iphone or the ipad or whatever you I mean, that's the CEO. But he made IT happen. So yeah, it's like when my family and i'd come home and say, mom, did you make this and he said, I made IT happen.

I want to see I want self driving cars though, and that's why we still feel like like that's what the promise has been a test since they launched. And i've always I have not bought an elective vehicle, yes, but it's like next on my list. And now it's great because there are a lot more options. But my neighbors who have two teslas, and I constantly see the the van that comes to pick IT up and take IT every sentence oh well.

every single cyber truck out recalls for because the back up cameras had leg. And that's really not good. If you try that up in the camera, it's not showing you what you're supposed to, what you're what's actually happening.

The rockets are great. That's really exciting. I got to go through the Kennedy space center a couple years ago and they have the space x facilities there.

And you everyone was just talking about you that what space x is doing is what's really pushing space exploration forward now because, you know, master had been so far behind. But obviously now they catching up. There's some movement, but IT is great that they've kind of kept that momentum because sparse exploration is just so fascinating to me. And I think, you know, IT was a shame that we kind of felt so far behind for so long and and great that a prime company was able to kind of push the push the boundary a bit more and and bring us back, bringing us back to being sort of a power in this space.

You and you, I I give space ex a lot of credit for being the first to do truly reusable rockets. I mean, they they've actually made a lot of really significant technical progress. But again, like his other companies, very problematic.

They a lot of toxic materials into the environment around their um their base in texas, um you know and it's where they where they have star base where space sexes based on cell taxes. There's a lot of um very delicate wett lands around there. And every time they do a launch, there is a huge amount of toxic materials that are spute in that environment. Of course, I think you you talked a camera for us on here on twy a couple of weeks ago, but cards against humanity, and there are doing, they have a little piece of property next to space access property.

and which they originally bought in a crowd funded attempt to the down terms mexican wall. They thought up some property that where the war would be built, but IT turned out they got kind of two for one, because then spacek started putting bulldozers and parts on IT. Those are completely, by the way, i've been told later, those property issues are complicated, complex and not always obvious.

So but but there's a lot of other issues with with space ex, a lot of labor issues, a lot of harassment issues, which is something that is common to pretty much all of his companies.

Look at this chopstick catch. This is pretty, this is this basic, heavy, the ideas to make this easier to reuse these. They catch IT before hits the ground.

There's the chopsticks. I mean, this thing that's like a surfs. C that's like to solve. Look, are that well and the crowd goes wild?

And is that real crowd noises?

I know any possible fake that's .

really true casting.

I don't even think it's that that sounds like a stadium full of people watching the forty nine years in the super bol. Doesn't that sounds like .

it's a fascinating approach because you catching IT that way is probably there's probably a lot less risk. So probably a lot easier then you've got, I think, that boosters about two hundred feet tall, hundred and fifty someone, two thousand, one hundred and fifty and two hundred feet tall, having something like that come down vertically and baLance on a pad is really complicated.

But which they were going .

a bge in the ocean, for which a smaller, a smaller rocket 啊。 But you know what? Something is largest, this know, trying to, trying to bring IT down vertically. You've seen how many times you know the the vulkan nine see smaller ones have come down and cut .

over yeah and .

been destroyed so you can catch IT this way is probably a more reliable solution.

Well then reusable. So being very environmentally friendly, especially Better than spewing IT all across the ocean, is is .

literally changed. The economics of .

space flight environmentally friendly until you think about you know the the fuel uh, that they're using, the amount of the amount of mEthane that they burn for everyone of these launches and the the C O two that's being put out by that, as well as the the mEthane is leaking during the during the fueling process and during the the extraction of mEthane from fracking, uh, which they want, which they also want to do on their property. They want to do more fracking there to generate their own then, uh, you know that the environmental impact of every one of those launches, probably in the gates, all of the benefits from all of the evs that have been sold so far.

is that an ironic kind of combination? Maybe I have to dry those tears that I shed in me tesla factory. He's a good.

He's a show man. In fact, our technique said, like pt. Barna said, what's there that was JoNathan gitlin a tag line for his article.

He also when we need human.

that's what .

gets this technology .

that's spired people ah and for open I mean deaf jobs was a show man. Steve jobs absolutely was a show man. In fact, the best tech executives have a certain amount of a rastle dazzle to them to sell these going to sell these ideas .

because sometimes you're going to be waiting a really long time for them as let's think I .

mean or ever and for is on the record to saying he doesn't think we're gona ever get to level but that level four and level five.

we're level four now I me that lame o does that's level for so it's completely .

self driving in any circumstances.

So were not getting that some really .

to level five?

No, ever.

I don't think in the next the ten to fifteen years is is IT just .

the car is also of the infrastructure because I know that the infrastructure is so key to something.

the infrastructure is actually less of an issue .

yeah if you can have conferences, inter car communication, yeah, this would be here you come to four way stop and the cars can say.

go knows and .

it's it's much safer, much Better than. I mean, the problem is when you have three out of the four vehicles are autonomists within our car communication and the forth is you are made driving, then the humans become the issue. Yeah, but we could figure that out if. But the problem is I don't think the car companies are, are they working together to create in their car communication or they all silos?

yeah? no. The I mean there are standards for a vehicle to everything communication um and the originally the original plan was they were going to use uh A H two eleven p which is a derivation of wifi communications. H IT was called D S R C dedicated short range communications to do vehicle to vehicle, vehicle to infrastructure, vehicle to pedestrian communications um that later changed to cellular veto x using a using cellular um connections um both to the network to the cell networks, but also direct point to point uh communications using cellular technology for vehicles and vehicle to infrastructure, vehicle to pedestrians to communicate, send short messages about the position of weather to or pedestrian cyclists what direction they are moving is the velocity um and you know for example, with vehicles know if a vehicle hits a patch of ice. Ice and ABS attraction control activates IT can broadcast out a message to other vehicles in the area.

And not so good. I want that. When when do we get that?

You could see very valuable. That would be an emergency vehicle. Could say OK already move over.

We're coming through. I mean, I could IT would change how cities are organized. IT would change everything. And that's another thing elon said that i'm really behind, I really agree with, which is that we've ruined our cities by making room for all of these vehicles so that every one of us has a personal vehicle. Cities are Harry parking lots now part of its the street but I mean, literally you have to put parking in everywhere. There's a parking .

spaces for every car in the .

united states this .

crazy wow doesn't .

crazy so ah and so that's think got the right idea but I ever nice fiction but .

he's got that idea that's that's not something a unique insight from him. There's a lot of people who have known that for a long time right even even before elan got involved with tesla in two thousand four, there was work being done on autonomous vehicles um long before that for these very reasons, the industry has understood this for a long time.

Um but the problem is the technology is a really hard problem to solve because software does not work the same way our brains do. And obviously humans make a lot of mistakes when we drive. We have a lot of crashes, lot of fatalities.

But you you also need to look, look at IT from A A slightly different perspective. Yes, forty thousand people year die. That is forty thousand too many.

But we drive three point two trillion miles a year in the united states alone. And we we have about one fatality, little more than one fatality for every hundred million miles. We have a crash, about one on average, once every half a million miles, about one thousand .

miles where I have a crash. That's good news. Are you on the verge cast every week at no.

every noon. Then they go on whenever there's any big smart home news or to talk about the matter.

I see you have all your smart home stuff, all good. We're onna get to matter.

Actually come to think of you .

do a little matter because of mark erma's peace today in the bloomberg. I haven't caught IT.

yeah. So went .

during the next break, which is coming up. Now you have a chance to look at IT. He says apples really gona push on the smart home.

And and their issue, of course, is working with with existing hardware, getting IT working. And he says that's one of the reasons they were very active and matter. I like home kit. I would use home kit everywhere if it's, if it's supported everything well.

Thus, what matter is basically home kit.

right? So I will have a home assistant server over here.

Oh, you do.

How long to have that? The H. J. Green.

nice. yeah.

Couple of months.

So it's a knee.

I know to you, nothing works together. And I I am, get up the morning. Sing good morning house and the curtains go up and the bacon starts friday and the coffee machine .

comes on all that's my dream to and .

everybody's home dream. But there were it's like autonomists vehicles.

And there's a lot of correlation between the smart home and the smart city and the smart road and the smart car. There's so much that they can do for each other and especially the car. You with the home battery back up the car, we've been seen this quite recently, action, in fact, even during the storms.

And you could do that with the ford lightning, you could into your house.

Yeah, your car can be your home. Beg people .

doing that. North Caroline has, oh amazing. Yeah.

keeping keeping a power on.

I was moderating a panel at the move amErica conference in Austin, but two, three weeks ago, and I had somebody on the panel from hurts. He was he was the VP of the electrification strategy and this was just a couple of days before hill in was due to hit. And one of the things that SHE mentioned, they have a bunch of chevy silverado evs and lightning in their fleet um and what they were doing ahead of the storm was they were making sure to position those vehicles and have at least one of those at every one of their running locations in the area that was likely by the storm part to power things like the gate so the cars could get in and out of, know the creep people know renting cars to get away would be able to to get out afterwards, know if they're lost power, so they could use the battery in the truck to power some of the systems at their rental locations.

Is there a name for this so that we can look for this when .

we buy next car yeah vehicle to load or a vehicle to home o or just by directional charging?

Yes, by dish a few and they have to have there's approval processes, right that they need to go through. So that's why it's kind of slow.

But there are a few out there, there there's standards that are still or evolving as far as how it's how it's implemented on the hardware side is fairly well standardize. But on the software side, there's things about how the vehicle and other devices talk to each other that are still the standards are still being finalized. But you basically most new cars are most new evs coming to market now are having at least some degree of by directional capability on them.

There was some concern for the can both lying in milton that evs would be a problem. They get salt water in storm searches if they were emerged, and salt water that they would cause fires. Did any of that happen?

There was one instance that was reported with a tesla IT. All depends on how well the the batteries sealed. If the battery is if it's the battery pack is well manufactured and sealed up properly, IT shouldn't be an issue.

okay, but you know, as with anything.

but no more no more than an issue with for an internal combustion in vehicle being subaru in salt water and actually probably loss of an issue .

really cases. But but that wouldn't explode IT.

No, I wouldn't explode. But that also would if you if your engine is flooded by water, salt water or fresh water, if it's under eight ten feet of water, um that water is going to get into the engine and the engines just going to cease and you're not .

going to go anywhere yeah or if the gas tank leaked.

gasoline IT gets into the gas tank, guess gets out, it's going to float up on top of the water gets out. Now you if there's a Spark, you have a potential fire hazard that way.

In general, IT seems to me that the amount of energy you have to store in a vehicle to push IT down the road for several hundred miles is a lot. And if the were to be released suddenly under any conditions, IT would be a problem.

The problem .

is putting that out. Though my husband is a firefighter .

and has .

experience this, putting these batteries out when they are on fire is a lot harder than putting a gasoline car out .

because they create their own hyg en in the comments, plus this toxic chemicals that come out of the combustion as well, right?

And they may reignite to, once you can put out water.

The primacy of evy fires is less than ten percent .

of the frequency of.

because around many around, I think, the number of vehicles percentage based on as a fraction of the number of vehicles is here about ten times is likely to have a fire with an internal with a gasoline vehicle as a battery vehicle but as sad lin je the once that does ignite um because of the nature of the the chemicals in the battery particularly cobalt oxide IT releases oxygen internally .

and so you can't mother have I have a test robot vacuum as one of the things I do. I have been review for the verb .

site and you have animals that's a good combination imes.

I'm hoping my new kitten will like riding the robot back. My hold cat is note like if have i've already started .

training him Young.

but I have a lot in my house at any one time. And my husson is constantly worried that we going to come home when they were going to have exploded. Like there are anything we can do to turn these off, you think says such a fire hazard.

Thankfully, that has not happened. But let the iam batteries you everywhere in our house. And he's always .

so we had remember the harbor board craze, which basically, I think I killed because of lift the mi on fire. He went many fires .

on those in people's grassie.

They were made cheap chinese manufacturer that yeah, we have a friend who had significant home damage from from an exploding hubbard board. We had hobo boards that, I mean, I would always kind of have some trepidation. I plug in the garage and just cross my fingers.

That's all you can do across your fingers. But we need batteries. We're going to look, we're gona have optimist robots making drinks for us. Yes, in the near future.

you have fight robots. I've got more robots in my house and they were at that event. 一个 can you can't there's some sort .

of thing that happens to billionaire where they just can no longer tell the truth。 He said, oh yeah, we got fifty of these anton's vehicles back stage. No, you don't. where? what? And then these robots, which, to be fair, they didn't exactly say this is autonomous. Here's markets.

But he was there .

trying to figure that out. Scobel and others took video scope. L said, I found the guy who is running the thing.

Yes, that's not working. Let's not play that video. He asked, how much of you A.

I can't dispose just how much that something you have .

to find out is clearly a guy talking to one microphone across the way.

really. I think that people I think the people in the robots.

I don't actually just from .

the structure of the robot.

But so if not, I did not look believable the joint.

But here's from second breakfast investing, which is, by the way, an excEllent and still. My shirt.

Maybe they had a few real ones.

You don't .

think you yeah .

but the other guy, you didn't see that the one outside.

Yes, no, they have a lot of these, but these are mechanically not that different from an animatronic robot that .

they're been using a disney. It's mr. lincoln. No.

but apparently they were the robots um the optimist robots were being um remotely Operated and somebody y's speaking elan says .

a lot like not .

even as impressive as .

disney yeah that's right. It's r linking at least you if force car and seven elan said it's gonna a glorious future and I and I think that's true.

Take A A robot like .

that in my house bot walking my dogs. That's why I have dogs so I can walk my door. Well, my kids, I want a human looking after my kids.

Iran is a mixed bag, I guess we have to say, of good and bad and and bizarre. And I don't know you don't I don't know what he does scare me that he has so much power. By the way, we used to I have starlink here in case the comcast goes out, which is is pretty good, pretty safe bed.

So I was quite frequent fail .

over the start of experience. I mean, I given tesla a lot of money over in spaces over the years and continue to do so. I just I feel like we give him a lot of a way that maybe he doesn't serve.

I wanted the solar tiles on my roof, the tiles that were solar panels that never happened, really did IT like they did IT .

like two places. And then that was IT. We had tesla solar, solar city, solar panels and batteries.

But then tesla took IT over. And so I guess it's tesla now. But I love that idea that I can charge these batteries up.

If the power goes out, I can run off of batteries. We can continue to do this show. There's a lot to be. I don't have you know, it's just I wish just the mistake is is he's talking too much.

Just be quiet for one of the interesting things that's that's being done in pg N E testing this right now. So are a couple of other utilities is um using um using a vehicles evs with by directional charging.

You know we know about what ford and now gm offers with a having the vehicle to home uh capabilities ah so you can run your home well what they those those systems are designed to automatically switch over, flip a transfer switch and switch over to running off your vehicle battery if you have a power outage yeah um what the P G S testing right now is a system where you know for customers that opt in, if their evs are plugged in um when the utility is getting near the maximum load on the grid, they can reach out to these customers and switch them over to running off of their battery of the vehicle battery for half an hour hour, two hours until demand response ability. Zed, yeah doing a demand and then avoiding having to do those rolling blackouts or Brown outs that have been so common for the last decade. And that's that's a great solution. And you know for for those um that have home batteries like you have leo, um then no, you could also use that you know even during the midday the day while you're still generating solar.

Yes, let us take a break. We ve got a great panel. Samp salmon is here, our car guy, and he is timely. I wanted to get him on because of this elan thing. And Jennifer two is here.

He is an expert in everything, but especially these days on the verge in home automation, and will talk little little about that. You did actually do a good piece about using the satellite that messaging, or talk about IT about that in just a second. Our show that they brought you by experts exchange.

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yes. And by the way, it's not just technical questions. You can ask kind of manager erik questions as well.

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Now they know that you you maybe you're saying or maybe little schedule so they have made a deal. I know this is fantastic, ninety days free. You don't even need to give him a credit card just ninety days free. They know you're going na get hoped you're going to end up wanted to be there forever. It's really great.

But try IT free for three months at e dash e dog com slashed with e dash e 点 com slash twitter to learn more experts exchange and if you're an AI listening to this， not for you, buddy, not for you. You're watching this week in tech, Jennifer patterson tue, who, you know, I like the firefighter angle on this. This expertise is very valuable. This is good because we've heard that fire fighters don't like electric vehicles. But this is, we're getting that from the straight, from the source.

the sources. Wife.

the source is wife. I have every bit as good as the sort. It's one of them. So you live in south CarOlina, dog charley, right?

didn't. Yes, I did. We we had some strong winds, but we thankfully yeah just a few trees down and power out briefly. But we've had a few pretty easy ones here over the years. But it's the gulf coast has been taking the hits in the last sort of four or five years, but we've been quite lucky relatively. And then the melton was very .

much we yeah .

we grazed a little for that one. But yeah, it's been it's been a tough year for living in the southeast. And it's but it's been interesting that there has we've been seen, like we mentioned, about evs helping people power their homes. You know there are we've been some great technological advances that are helping people in the aftermath of disasters like this. And as you mentioned earlier, or one of the pieces I wrote last week was about how to use the new satellite messaging feature on your iphone, which apparently a lot of people in the northern north Caroline and western's, south CarOlina, at which is just north of where I am, we're able to use, following the horrific flooding that affected them after halen went through, and able to use to get in touch with their family and let them know that they would say, for in some cases, you know where they were so that they could help and hopefully get some help. Because the big problem there was infrastructure, you know.

no roads. The roads were gone in a meeting, the self .

sites were out.

And that's a big deal. I think we kind of assumed that, well, I might lose power. I get funny, but I can use my phone to call for help, except if the powers out in the cell sites are out. You can't.

Yeah and this and actually about was that two weeks ago a rise and had a huge outage and wasn't working across like half the country. And I happen to be driving, went to going at my daughter and I like, huh? Why is my phone not working? And this little thing popped up, keep pointing at satellite like what I was able to message my daughter using that. yeah. So that one change.

So I first announced this IT was very limited because I had so little band with that you behave to use and messages that they would basically indicate with a few bits. But now it's full message with text messaging.

Yeah, yeah. So there's two things there. There's SOS messaging, which is what came out originally, and that's also on pixel lines. So if you were if you had iphone or a pixel nine, iphone fourteen or newer or a pixel nine, any of that family.

the latest google pixel phone.

yes, you could SOS message, which means you could contact nine one one, which obviously these kinds of situations is very important, but also nine one one overwhelmed, so you still want to be able to get in touch with other people. The satellite messaging is specific to iphones, and you had to have IOS eighteen and you had to have updated your phone to IoT. You left, yes, wifi or sea service.

This wasn't something you could retroactively do. So I about this little kind of PSA how to ahead of milton and sort of like floridians, make sure you got IOS eighteen just in case. If you have an iphone fourteen or newer. And so this was there was quite a lot of steps you have to go through to make sure that would work. But most of those were actually for eye message is this works with eyes message fully like that backs is just like a regular.

That's amazing. That means you've got up ban now to text mess.

I mean, IT does also work with rcs straighforward tech messaging to anyone. So because with our message, you had to have them in your contact. So there were some like there were some hops you had to jump through.

But it's great, it's great that this existed and that this was something that people could use. And lots of people, after Helen was saying that really helped them get in touch with friends and family because the work on the worst things about the aftermath of a disaster like this is your cut off. And i've been through a few of them.

So i've had some experiences here. And you know, having no power and no internet, no, no a what's going on you a radio with batteries is basically what you've got about inward communication. You're not able to communicate out unless you have a ham radio, which i've not really ever got into that.

I know hair .

all about that.

This is my way. Amateur dio is huge. And these kinds of disasters, and people forget that amar radio exists, but they have groups, the train they practice, they know exactly how to reach emergency services. Yeah, I mean, this mean you have to be a ham, but hams are vit .

yeah and I think but but this is sof the next step for the the non techy getting like i'm waiting .

for the apple ads saying.

yes.

same how many people we say and the river was common and he got out because he was able to use his iphone. Do read a Jennifer's piece in the verge though, because there are a few steps .

you want to make sure it's quite .

implicit is so including have friends and family have IOS eighteen as well so the year message .

them yeah is the pixel nine using the same satellite network? Is what iphones are using or is that the I think there was a deal that was announced .

with t mobile.

That's a separate thing.

Star starlink. yeah. So this is also so the SOS messaging works with any cell phone um but the Carrier, sorry, but the text messaging is Carry a specific and you do have to have an active sim card so you can't just have a phone so that IT does you have to have so we got verizon and eighty and t confirmed that IT works with them.

We didn't hear back from t mobile, but t mobile did that same day announced that starling and t mobile have a text by satellite service available for florida following melton or four as as melton was approaching. This was this was a couple days ago. So and this was this will worked without any set up.

So IT is possible. I'm not sure why the apple processes so involved. I think as as I mentioned, it's more for if you want the eyes message capability because apple makes IT very clear that this is not designed for emergencies.

But obviously, it's still useful to be able to tell people where you are or how you're doing or because you know you're worry, you worried about your friends and family and in these areas, Stacy higden, buff and friend of the show text didn't be right after hello, insane. Are you okay? Where are you? I know you're in south CarOlina now.

And so people want to know and reach out. So being able to get in touch with someone just even without cellular data is crucial, and it's great that we're moving in this direction to be able to have this type of capability. Obviously, fourteen iphone fourteen and newer does limit and especially picks on nine and knew that limits the people hook me up to use this. But you know, while apple intelligence might not be a big selling point for the new phones, I think this is a could pick selling point for people to upgrade their phones because it's not just when a hurricane hits you means any yeah any. Like I said, my various on was down for what was at most twenty four hours and I could text.

couldn't go apples using global stars, lower thora satellites. Sam, I don't know what pixel uses.

I don't think think they've I know we've got some coverage on the verge. I'm not sure that they specifically .

maybe they have .

even mention yeah yes.

In fact, global start because of apple has been able to say we want to upgrade and we want to do more. And so they got fcc approval to launch new twenty six new satellites to enhance that network. This is great.

This is a really little star, a lower yeah.

their leo system ah yeah. Well, their first generation was fourteen hundred kilometers. So yeah, so that the launch of the replacement satellite will be at some point next year.

I will try to find out i'm looking to see who who google users for this, but I don't know if they've said it's a great thing. I know we'll see the ads. I know we will.

It's it's really amazing. And I think people don't realize how they might have been aware of the initial s feature, which is very limited. I don't think .

they maybe real came out with I was .

yeah a couple .

of weeks ago. Yes, so you had to have updated yeah to team when I came out of beta.

Really great, really good stuff. Speaking in a google ah the united states department of justice has gone to the judge with some proposals. As you know, google lost in court any force in trusters, any trust and forces, antitrust anti force and trusters. I like that.

I wonder who I am .

using my anti I force and trusted to anti present something on.

A small excuse me.

as you get older, this thing happens more and more. There are spooner's. Ms, I guess, but I anti trust in forces, are trying to figure out how to judge omitted.

Meta a is now getting A A documents from the department of justice about what they would like to see happen. Now he's going to have to choose. And there a variety of things he could choose, including selling, forcing google to sell off parts of their business.

And there is break up google or provide access to google underlying search data and AI products to third parties. There are behavioral and structural remedies the justice department is considering that we prevent google from using products like get ready for this chrome play and android to advantage google search. They could force them to divest crime the places and android.

They also are considering possibly having google cell off youtube, sell off search. This is a big deal. Now it's clear that this is gonna on for a while.

Google til we any else.

What is for you? How long you think this is going?

decades? It's going to decades.

We're going to be dead at least five, five.

eight years. So the problem with this, of course, and that was the same thing with microsoft, is the court cases moved so slow and technology moves fast. Google may not be the sea dominant search technology in the five years.

Well, that's what their argument already is, is right? That look at open a and yeah .

take already wounds that google is putting on itself with the weights change .

the search on our our search is crap. Now we are river.

You're not dominant.

I can see I search your. The year the eu says devastator is the only way, so the eu may push for a break up. So that's interesting. These are pretty strong headwinds over google.

A different case. How do you break IT up in a way that the various components that you split up have a potential to be self sustaining, right? You know, if you were to, well.

youtube would be self sustaining.

to be stain. They could have their own ad platform and everything. But if you take, if you take everything else away from google search, if if is .

chrome a business by itself, of course not. No, it's free. It's a free browser. There's that there's no business unless you tied to as google heads.

you are android without the play store or google ads know how android would have to fundamentally change from you having a free open source, having a osp that everyone can utilize to, they would have to start charging everybody for IT.

Another thought is that google, which pays, I think, something like forty billion dollars a year to other parties to be defauts the fault search, most notably apple, twenty billion dollars. Samsung, to be the default search on those phones, could be forced to stop doing that. But but does not really a punishment. You know, you got ta keep that forty billion dollars. It's a punishment for apple, which very much depends on that twenty billion dollars for its services revenue.

But on the other hand, if apple is no longer getting that twenty billion dollars there, there are also no longer distance centipedes .

from create their own.

But what would they do? They've already apples already. We've seen the documents of IT said internally, we are not going to use being that things crap. So what would they do that .

the apple box theyve .

used for apple intelligence?

You have a head.

sorry.

just so there were documents, the documents at some point that revealed that the way that apple and google kind of communicated to keep their deal kosher for them was that apple couldn't. Apple had to be careful about like a spotlight search. IT couldn't be too good because IT might agencia a competitor for google.

And with general AI and with their movement, with their efforts in apple intelligence, I mean, you is a natural next step for them to create their insurgents. And I mean, they've moved out of creating a car. There's there's a lot they could do here. It's obviously a messy space to move in two and perhaps not really in line with apples kind of overall hardware first ecosystem.

They had considered doing this actually, mark, and that bloomberg, and decided not to. But then you're right, they .

because so I mean, and the money is there clearly. I mean, search is A A very good business and there hadn't been a sort of chink in the armour of google until the last five or six years where, yeah, we started to see that IT is possible for there to be competition. And google has kind of shot itself the foot by not being as good as IT should be by becoming by stuffing everything with ads. I mean, you have to go through like two pages to get native sech results. Now it's all sponsor results and it's just almost .

unusable.

I pay they put in charge of of good charge. I forget his name. Yeah.

that's a famous story. He's broken IT. Basically, I paid ten box a month to use a third party search called, which is Better is but I think they're using some google data.

They use like ducks go and others they use probably use being as well. But it's very good search. It's certainly replys google for me without any pain. And imagine if google were forced to give them their search index, know right?

And that's the interesting part of all of this. It's like what they could because yeah, that's where we need. That's why why people would find IT hard to give up google because IT does went IT when you get through all the ads.

IT does serve what you need. And theyve find tune that search index. And if they could, if they had to share that. And then I love the peace. The thing in this piece here from bloomberg about how they mentioned they would have one of the remedies was forcing google to to pay for advertising campaign to explain to people .

how to use other you know, we're google, but we like duck to go. Here's how to use IT wow, because that's the thing.

I mean, that's the monopoly they have is they're on every phone. And you know most people, I mean, no one that I know that's not in the tech world has any idea what duck do is they maybe know what being is if they happened to have been forced to use IT on their work. Microsoft computer.

the new equipment of making you were a dance equivalent, of making you a dance cap, has signed around your nick, I am bad. Go use something else. I think that's humiliating.

And if they should do anyway, meta has till August of next year to decide what to do. The D O J gave him one thirty two page document, and now they apparently that's not long enough. They're working on a fuller proposal for next month. There will be two week remedy hearings in April, and then he will have to decide in August.

And then come all the appeals .

and then the appeals. But yes and yes, i'm going to channel some of our other host, chiefly alex lisia c break weekly. Why mess with google? People love IT. why? How does? How does this help people?

Yeah, IT does seem. I mean, there are a lot of other things that we feel like our federal government could .

be dealing with problems for sure.

But know what, IT comes down to IT though. The internet has become so integral to every part of my life, and google does have now very much a sort of iron grip on every corner of of our life because of, you know, not just google search, but youtube. I use youtube TV. There's you know google is in has its fingers in everything.

yes, but we gave them that power.

We gave them .

that power by youtube TV. Instead of they .

did a good job for a long time, but they also paid to minimum the potential of others doing IT and equal. They are .

classic monopoly, right? They're really the classic monopoly.

And and that's always the off with with anti trust is for a long time, anti trust was about making sure that you had competition. And you, since the eighties, IT was about consumer harm. And the presumption was that free or cheaper products, we're not harm to consumers IT. IT was only if monopolists use that power to raise the cost to consumers, then IT became a problem. Well that you know the the problem with that is if you let that go on, you get into the the whole um you in certification thing you know that corry doctor was talking yeah .

we're smarter than that. We know now that amazon drops Prices drops Prices until although local retail businesses go out of business and then they have a hundred percent market here and then they can raise Prices arbitral.

Earlier this I was at to see a preview launching with garsh paro.

the head to mention those words yet ti october, see.

there was some discussion of policy going on, was a local member of congress that was also this lunch. And they talked about policy, any trust policy, and I robot in particular, in the fact that the ftc had prevented amazon from buying a robot. And he talked .

about makers of the roomba vacuum .

has got .

Jennifer has all over her her house.

yes. Well, he mentioned that you, I robot has gotten hammer because of all these chinese companies that have copied what they did and and put those on the market.

for which I was visiting a friend who had A U fee yeah, robot VC that looks just like a rumbo yeah and.

you know, he said, you know, amazon should have been allowed to buy ye robot, you know, to keep this american company love. But what he didn't mention was that, you know, most of those chinese robot vacuum you are being sold by are being bored by people on amazon. Amazon is the reason. That's a really a good point. I robot is in trouble.

That's a very good. Well, any argument for not allowing amazon to buy? I rote. But was that IT would prevent competition on amazon like sales that that in theory, amazon might be able to promote its product above others. But the space for robot vacuum is huge.

So that IT was kind of a false equivalency because there are dozens of companies producing, more than dozens of companies producing good robot vacuum comparable to I robot robers. And and you know, I robot is struggling. IT used to have a fifty to sixty percent.

Market sharing is now down to like a thirty or forty percent. So it's definitely seen a significant drop. And then we've had one other american robot backing manufacturing go out business in the last few years.

Neto was the other one, I mate. They suffered from the too much competition argument. And then room has been low in its Prices because IT used to be very expensive, and now they're coming out with less expensive models. They got really screwed by the amazon deal falling through.

though we, the government, to get involved to the extent that they protect american companies over other countries.

So this.

to me, that seems to me a recipe for trade war plus then guarantee consumers going to be spending more because there won't be competition from overseas companies. And by the way, where where the rumbles made.

most likely in someone, china.

you will be crazy to make them anywhere else.

yeah.

yes. The reason probably there are so many chinese clothing is because they knew how to make him, because they make him anyway.

I I think this look, you I don't disagree that someone should be allowed to buy a robot. The question is, should have be amazon. And I suspect IT should probably be somebody else.

Somebody was their concern. I know I was concerned, but was they're concerned also that any robot vacuum maps the sides of your home, the internals of your home um and even potentially could map your home network and devices on your home network and well could send a pretty comprehensive list of all of the things you own to the home office. Is there any concern about that?

Well, that was why amazon wanted to buy room back.

Oh yeah, there you go.

I mean, that was what I I seized in my opinion piece I wrote. So know amazon did not tell me that directly, but yes, I had spoken at many times before to Colin angle, the previous CEO of irobot, who left right after this deal fell through about his smart home plans. And he he had designed this.

He had designed what sort of a homos use the robot and also the air purifiers that they manufactured to map your home and map your wifi. So IT knows how strong wifi has in certain areas to be home. Maps your home knows the different rooms of your home.

And then the idea being, as you move into the smart home, makes IT much easier for you to set up new devices. And you know, your home would know where they were in the house without you having to add IT to an APP and say, it's in my kitchen. And this is what, you know, connected to this wifi.

IT could just do IT all for you. And I think that sort of homos concept that room I had or I robot had, beyond being just a robot vacuum, was quite sort of ambitious. And the kind of thing that amazon, with its elea smart home platform, was interested in, and the data that you would get from understanding the insides of millions of homes in amErica for, from the cynical perspective, not so much the smart and perspective that you know you would know.

Okay, what? This person has three bedroom. So maybe i'm going to start serving them more ads for furniture when they move or they have just moved into their house, more beds, more mattresses.

We said, moral panic or what you sick. That really was kind of possible and something that amazon wanted to do.

I think understanding the inside of amErica home, america's homes is definitely something amazon would have been interested in because it's valuable insight, valuable consumer research. I don't think they interested in knowing specifically about your home. I think that was more moral panic.

Yeah, I don't think they were going to be in in looking insane. Or look, liotot an old fridge. Maybe we should serve up some helps for a new fridge. But you know that I what .

do they think of IT? That sounds like another bad idea. You mean, look at cox claims, they can do we listen to all the conversations and then know what people want? And so we can tell you advertisers, where people are looking for ahead of ahead of time.

Well, the vacuum have been in the bad have been in a little of back from this week.

You so the actually .

rumors do not have microphones. Rumors have speakers. Some robot vacuum have microphones and speakers, some have cameras. Numbers have cameras. But rumbles were very, I was very specific about how the safety of your data, your maps, stored on device.

anything they can .

go to the cloud, but you can turn that off like you have a lot of control over how your maps managed. But this is not necessary the case for all robot vacuum. And this week, there was actually a new story yesterday.

I think that was I think IT was first reported last week about a ecover x robot. They manufacture d bots, a number of them that have been hacked and have been running around people's homes yet at them. So IT is a bit, a bit worrying. We haven't had a good IoT hack.

That's a hell of a good ad is took over robot vex to chase .

pets and yells, yes. So this was pretty, pretty scary. And these do have microphone and speakers and cameras because these have voice assistance built in the depots have its called eco, and you can say, okay, eco, go vacuum the living room more. Okay eco, come vacuum here. So rather than having to use of your sister .

like mac k to their vacation .

and just talk directly to the robot and tell you where you want to go. And but unfortunate, this now means that someone else can also here what you're saying and well, in this case, anyway, they haven't equal access saying that this was .

a stuffing attack like so of course, if you're going to work like that, you're going to use the same password for IT to use for everything else because why wouldn't you?

Yeah, but IT happened to a lot of people I used. I tested this model. Thankfully, I was not in my house at the moment.

So, but yeah, this was, and this is definitely something people are worried about with robot vacuums because they are connected to to the internet. They do see everywhere in your house. They have access to, you know, private areas. I mean, was that unfortunate, insistent back with room, but where they caught the hackers found photos of people on the toilet from?

I remember that yeah, I it's .

something you're bringing into your home that's a lot more a mobile camera and speaker and microphone. So something you do have to consider. There are models that do not have cameras and there are models that do not have mack phone. And I would probably recommend you get those if you .

and this is a trend with all consumer goods there. It's becoming clear and clear that everybody wants more information about you. So for instance, there's no device you can buy these days that doesn't have an APP associated with IT.

My wife just got a dice hair curling thing, and SHE said, there's no instructions I said, oh yeah, you have to skin the Q R code and then download the APP. Why did I have to have an APP? Well, because that's how they can spy on you Better. And she's she's going to return IT because he says, I don't want to here curling iron that I can .

use without an APP is rap yeah .

the year model, the air straight? Oh.

straight because they just came out with a blue tooth version that uses an APP. But the previous model does not and it's very good, don't routine.

So that is awesome. But this is the one that uses the the year yeah.

they knew they just came out with the APP. You don't the previous models don't have APP. This was the first time they had an APP.

But I don't think you are female love, by the way, which I we were talking about in a couple of weeks ago on the show. But it's a trend where also companies say, oh, no, we we'll let you up out of the data collection and they know full well that most people will never opt out, will never even know there isn't opt out and not because they don't care, because they just don't know yeah and the tyranny of the default.

And this is just an A A growing trend. This is another kind of initiation ation. somewhere. Every device you own connects to the internet, sends data back to the home office, and oh yeah, well, oh no, no problem. Just put the settings and check box and we won't do that.

Well, I was just can say you it's hard to find stuff now, especially at home appliances that don't have connectivity. Last year and a half, we've bought a new stove and weve bought a new washing and dryer a few months ago. The searching, you know, to find one that had the features we've wanted on IT, you can find one that there is not wifi connected, right? I don't .

have to turn on the wifi and no.

I don't pack my TV in. Yeah.

what wifi on activity?

Get me on the stove .

eventually though, you can .

turn IT on.

Oh, my stove is wifi. Yeah.

kitchen to use the heat. You, your drive home .

a bad idea.

The good there there are .

up benefits, your husband, fireman approve preheating the everyone downing's home. Don't tell them .

what you're doing that I don't, I don't I don't need an APP to .

tell me when the dryers done. I can hear .

the buzzer go out stone age. So what if I connectivity and appliances, definitely, to date, seems pointless, I agree. And there's lots of the fridge.

The smart fridge is the butt of many IoT jokes. And yes, I agree. IT seems like, why? Why would I need IT? But there are many. Well, I can tell you one reason you need IT, and I can tell you one reason why you might want in the future. The one for the future is home manager management having all of your home appliances with connectivity with each other so that they can communicate about energy management process steps for use, IT for balancing your management load of your energy, communicate with a home energy storage unit in your home when when our homes become virtual power plants be able to work demand response to slightly adjust energy usage of certain lianes .

closely related to intercropping unica. We are exactly so. All these I smart device yeah yes. By the way, I Jennifer, I have to tell you that the chat rooms consensus is your dog wants to .

go out so my dog wants to go and play with the new kitten.

but is in the whole way okay, so chat room, shut up. SHE knows what she's doing. The dog is in there for reason.

Okay.

yes. Now we really, why are we tell about privacy? We're here on camera with thousands of people watching us, telling us how our dog is behaving.

I mean, you know, come coming one thousand and three and fifty people watching the show alive today. Thank you. On our seven different platforms, of course, our club twit members are in the club twit discord watching.

Keep up the good work. We appreciate your support also. Youtube 点 com slash twitter slash live。 There's twitch, a TV flash twit linked in facebook x da com kick. And I think there's probably a few others. There are seven different streams now we like you when you watch life, but we also encourage you if you do watch live, to also subscribe to the show.

So when you download a copy, that's when we that's when the money starts flowing, if only, but do demo IT if you can be appreciate that we're going to take a little great panel. This is fun. But to was worried we didn't have a fourth panel is and I said, you know, sometimes three people is the best because we can all get to have some room to talk gennifer patteran do is here you see her every months. S on tech news weekly and of course, at the verge and on the verge podcast. SHE covers smart home, but she's also covered other technology and and has a god dog named guss.

And guss is our force member.

Yeah, I love god. Yeah, guys could try in if he's got anything to say. Just, just, let, just let him speak up.

Guess what do you think of the google break up? Is there is there remedy you prefer? And he seems to seems to have some ideas.

Just want the kitten.

Sam sama also hear a car guy from wheel bearings. The podcast, of course he is an analyst covers that the tech and car industry for it's not in the lower third. I can't read IT guide's insights.

It's GTA be in my brain somewhere. I'm looking, i'm searching through anyway. Thank you, sam.

Thank you, Jennifer. Appreciate your being here. Thanks to all of you for watching, especially those who be watching live. I love haven't in the live audience, china man and say, you know, jen for the dog really once go out.

i'll get my husband to take him out .

but I think in one place.

yes, I do. I don't know if you can, but I do in fact bite for Better discord, says Jennifer. Article on which devices work with matter and threat has been a god send. Thank you for .

it's pain in, but i'm glad it's being possible.

Do you keep IT up today?

I try .

oh no.

yeah, it's a little out of date right now because I just went to eat and there were tons of new things are either that I need to add but me I think the last update was a couple of three or four .

weeks ago paying the golden gate bridge.

You never done no.

but you know.

hopefully one day it'll be too much to manage. And then we know matter is finally, finally made IT.

And now we have a poll saying, should guys play with the guy? Yes, you know.

IT feels like this big.

No, trust, trust the cat ma, to know what to do. Okay, to say, hey, let's talk a little bit about a great sponsor of the show when we know very well. Love having on look out you know, this times we're tough right now to day.

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We thank you so much. We're supporting this week in tech. So here's a little osa.

You never when you reject stuff from a court filing, okay, really pay attention. Don't use maybe some sort of PDF reduction tool. You might want to get a magic marker.

You know that more than or a knife, I don't know. More than a dozen states and the district lumbo have decided last week to sue tiktok, saying IT harms kids and is designed to addict them. California in new york, the lead plaintives, thirteen states in the district, columbia, they're seeking to force tiktok to change product features they say are manipulative and harm teens. Now I have to say my friend mike magnic text or wrote this headline, a bunch of states file garbage grand standing lawsuits against tiktok, with the main complaint being kids like IT. I think .

mike is a little too suttles .

with this.

He's a little IT open up and little.

he is a little lift. But he probably didn't realize, and IT was a kentucky N. P. R. Station that figures this out, that the reduction in the filings weren't really fully rejected.

They were able to cut and paste the text, the blackout text, into another document and rate IT. And what did they find? Well, apparently these state attorneys general have tiktok documents that show that they knew.

They knew that from their own research that some of what they were doing on tiktok was harmful to kids and kind of ignored IT. That's kind of a smoking gun. Now the judge, when he found out the protection didn't didn't work, right? He pulled all all the documents back, so we can't read them anymore.

I don't know how they redecked. Yeah, they said the background color, a black mass guy, that's that's exactly what they did. Still, I think maybe the case is Better. Then we realized tiktok executives knew about the apps effect on teens, according to the lawsuit.

In this, now that the stuff that was rejected that we know you can see, kentucky public radio published excerpts of the rejected material, and then the state judge sealed up back opposing. But npr reviewed portions of the suit that were rejected. They highlight tiktok executive speaking and reading from the npr story speaking candidate about a host of dangers for children.

The material, mostly summaries of internal studies and communications, show some immediate measures like time management tools would have a negligible effect, a negligible reduction screen time. The company went ahead and decided to release and out the features. Are your kids a gentle fer old enough to use tiktok?

Yes, I am right in the middle of this right now. Ah tor is just turned thirteen. My son just turned sixteen.

Prime tiktok ages, by the way. Tiktok of these states journey. Generals want privacy for by defauts for minors under sixteen. So your daughter would would be protected. Your son would not.

Yeah.

do you think your kids are addicted?

So I I do think it's addictive. I don't think that mine, I mean, I my daughter, who has only just started using tiktok in the last month and very limited, I have they do have a restricted mode account. And I SHE had a very strong argument for IT, but I am quite likely to recent IT.

Again, it's been a brief, a brief surgeon. We were thinking about a tiktok account for the new kitten. So yeah.

I was thinking, if I think .

I had to do something .

creative with IT, actually that's an Anita is not to be .

a passive consumer, right? Use IT and she's very creative and really doing things that you know he does. He can do cp up videos and like seconds and I have no idea what she's doing. So I mean, when he when he creates them, SHE creates all sorts of great graphics. And that was the .

only reason that .

was the thing I like my son is more of the scroller. He doesn't ever post anything on IT, but he does. But the thing I like that is he will calm down and tell me about news and say, mom, did you hear about what happened to the U. S. senate?

This is one of, by the way, one of the arguments and defensive is that kids, your sons age are using tiktok research.

Not the news. Yeah.

that I was able to get their news.

My son never used as a computer.

It's all this smart device.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, take that back. He uses a computer for gaming all the time.

The real, yes, but it's very specific one use case device. And the phone is everything else. And I held off smart phones for my kids as long as I could.

And the schools are what ended up making me need to get them phones for various reasons. Like he was. He played on a vasty tennis team when he was in seventh grade. So he was playing with high school kids, and they, that was the only way they communicated with the text .

messaging would been left out.

Yeah, so, yeah, they were. But now put all the lockdowns on that. I could. I do. I did try using the tiktok. What was one of the filters that they talked about IT like reminds you that you've been watching too .

long and then not much. I'm lying in bed up and watching tick rocks for two hours and then some guy comes on as him and even do a lot of ticket yeah, put the phone down and I just go screw you boy and I I go on to the next video. Pisses me off. It's not your business.

I think person, i'm what i'm interested in. This is so when the whole tiktok U. S. Government issue sort of blew up, there was the the vote where the senate, I think, had seen had all gone into a room and seen some amazing of evidence that .

had kind of in mind .

that no one has ever told us about. And that's like, I want to know what that is. Is this?

That is we can't judge IT until we know information. I know, and I gotto tell you, I find IT like very entertaining and the fact that instagram went out and copy tiktok. So it's it's a virtual clone.

I have a feeling these centers, well, we just don't want this chinese company to get all the money we want to give IT to meta. And I don't think that that's caring about the kids. That's that's just jingoism. Now, Jennifer.

I would never let my daughter have an instagram c ever.

There you go. Why not? Why is instance worse?

Because it's so much more the the perfection idea. No, it's also where is tiktok and I mean, maybe people in their pajamas and like no makeup and like there's no kind of like is not the filter and maybe it's .

just too much. I IT s so much more .

you stay I mean, tiktok stage. But IT definitely feels like i've had that experience myself with with instagram, instagram ics, what facebook was initially like sharing, sharing photos of you in great scenarios, making IT look like your life is wonderful. Facebook no longer does that. I mean, facebook, I don't know what's happening when if in facebook .

i'm just like in a whole new wealth and noral, it's old folks like me so I can post my dad jokes in my means. So the kentucky truth, where my dad, you know, I speaking the truth here, kentucky authorities said, well, this well, this may be subsequently.

I love.

actually keep IT up. yeah. OK, okay.

I think you're .

in texas, tex. I go to more. I need some urban and mt. Juliet s.

while this may not, tiktok videos can .

be as short as eight seconds. And I played for viewers in rapid, fast accession automatically, the investigators wrote thus, this is the line that gets me in under thirty five minutes. And average ser is likely to become addicted to the platform. It's worse. Infant, no.

no.

I added that. That was not. I added that. But the whole idea of and thirty five minutes you're going to becoming dic now I won't tell you little story, Jennifer, you don't know the story.

Seems us my boy, my son, who is now thirty when he was six, like your boy, watched a lot of youtube videos. He particularly liked cooking videos. He's liked extreme food videos like the'd make a pizza at a three hundred mcDonald mbr gers, that kind of thing.

Love that stuff. I thought, you're waste in your time, kid. You're waste in your time.

Then he went to college. See you balder got to agree in broadcast journalism. And again, I thought you're wasting your, you wait new time kit.

A few years ago he came to me said, dad, I been making videos s on tiktok, doing some cooking on tiktok. I got about twenty thirty thousand followers. You think I should keep to IT? I said, well, that's pretty good.

I think you should keep doing IT. He now has two and a half million tiktok followers, wanted a half million instagram followers. His new cookbook solved hank of five nap and situation is number seven on the new york times best sellers, and last week was the best selling cookbook in the entire world. So let your son watch this stupid tuc videos as all .

on saying, well.

say and encourage your daughter to be a maker because that's what really got Henry .

go up the amazing .

yeah that .

and it's true. I mean, it's my husband is my husband bitish ly against. I get my husband hates the fact that my kids have even just have any kind of computers.

He's a real outdoors men and he hates and he hates IT and and we argue about this all the time and he's like, just, you know, they're addicted. It's just rotten their brains. And I like, this is what our parents said about this is what our parents parents said about rock music, why our parents said about TV? yes. And it's like, yes.

I said yes.

but my son has spent a lot of time playing on his PC, which he built or with help his mother on Christmas day and and he has spent many hours and my husband very upset, like I want him to come hunting with me and okay. And now the last thing we bought him was one of those yokes for the microsoft flight .

he want to do.

Now he, he is working very hard to get good grades so that he can be A U. S.

5 pilot。 Is that awesome?

So, you know, I mean, IT, yes, there are downsides, but there are also upsides. And also keeping kids away from technology at this stage in their life, early teens can be detrimental because they've losing out on skills and potential benefits and connections too. I mean, the world is online now, and there's a lot you can find from online connections. I mean, my daughter during the pandemic was a really difficult for her, because he was, he was eight or nine.

and they went right to them that I and SHE made shit.

was able to reconnect with some friends who had moved away over using facebook messenger when they rolled out their kind of kid friendly version right around that time. And IT was a lifetime for her. I mean, we've had some difficulties taking her away from the online community. And like india.

five minutes, the average user is likely to become addicted to the platform.

Yes, I give you to take the way. Yes, there's a baLance but it's something .

it's the modern world. I think you're exactly right, Jennifer. In look at the tennis team, I mean that that was he would be isolated without having that access yeah yeah um I think that this is the modern world and if it's it's risky to put kids out into the real world with no experience, if nothing else, at least the experience of knowing ah you ve got to put down the tiktok after thirty four minutes you could be addicted I mean, even that is something right is Better than nothing I think I think they would .

be so if if you put IT, if you stop after thirty four ministers and reset the addiction counter .

and then apparently, yeah, tiktok, this is all from that poorly rejected. See, that's what happens. You see europe .

the attorneys .

parents probably never showed him, had to use a dobe creator or whatever. So he thought, oh, says, rejected and put that out. And tiktok own research says, quote, compulsive usage correlates with a slew of negative.

They knew this with a slew of negative mental health effects, like loss of analytical skills. So what that explains the american elector, memory formation, contextual thinking, conversational depth, empathy and increasing anxiety. In addition, the documents shows tiktok was aware that compulsive uses also interference of essential personal responsibility, ie.

S like sufficient sleep, work responsibility, school responsibility and connective with loved ones. But you know, I want to show this and at this fine cookbook, so he a five np in situation available in bookstores, forty percent off right now at target. Get one for your family. Get this would be the best Christmas gift or honored er quantz a gift for the entire family so hank, thanks to tiktok, I don't have to support my thirty year old son anymore.

Definite your discretion imer about being an .

investor so Jennifer is not as either for I have to point out tiktok with two and five million followers and tiktok I don't think he's ever made a penny from tiktok, right? In fact, when he puts an add, he just stood up. These advertisers are love influencers he just didn't have for state farm insurance where he said, I just got a tweet from jacket state farm who said, are you gonna make me a chicken palm sandwich in .

the end like a good neighbors .

state farm is there and he makes the sandwich and that's the whole ad. Accept the city Flora or you can do that stay farm yeah because it's thinking no insurance for no surf sorry. So farm is not there. I'm sure he got ten times what we get for an add for doing that.

It's yeah it's and that the arguments hear about tiktok and the addiction capabilities can really be applied to many things on the internet.

To everyday .

things in life yeah no, I can't .

stop watching below dick on bravo. I can't stop thirty five minutes in and I got ta know as the chief still gone to get fired. It's all bad. Life is addictive, right?

I don't know cable.

I didn't know. I watch youtube. TV, thank you. Google.

that was so good. I wish I could go to want to with thirty .

five dollars. They so expensive. And I foolishly, last olympics, that was six, eight years ago. Eight years ago now, they offered a four k deal, and I went for, and I forget, I keep forgetting to turn.

Do you paid a lot?

I pay that right? Let's take a break. Yeah, look, I don't know.

I understand. Certainly social media can be problematic for some children. Ultimately, I think it's the parent that's ultimately right. Jennifer, you know what legislation to take away your parental responsibility? You want something for your kids?

yeah. I mean, I think education for parents is important about these platforms.

Let's spend the money.

Don't know what pot what the potential is that? I mean, i'm sort of the defect tech advisor for my group of of mums and they're always coming to me and scheme you know about different platforms. I get a lot of questions from my friends who have Younger kids about robo ks. You know, is that a good?

Did your kids do? Do robo ks, my daughter .

does your blocks. SHE loves her block.

Ks, it's OK right.

This is where a lot of her creativity is come from. Like SHE creates characters ors for to play in robotics. And I have all the, all the safety guards turned on.

And robots has very strong safety guards for children. I mean, it's designed for but is a platform is designed for children. Tiktok is not a platform is designed for children, although IT sounds like IT maybe has been designed. But I take dog for children yeah to get them early you the cigarette industries sort of angle tia doesn't .

cause cancer. I mean, come on, right.

but get them Young and you've got them for life.

Yeah, but yeah, an apple that was apple strategy too. That's why there's an apple two in every classroom that was that's how IT works.

Well, google got them now with the crow. Yeah yeah. But now I think, I think education for the parents is very important because I think a lot of parents have no idea how to manage any of this stuff. I use the program bark, which my, which is IT, monitors the online activity and sends a IT, also monitors text messages like, i'm not onna sit and read through my daughter's text messages because have you where are thirty year old text?

Yeah and it's like reading your diary too. I mean, it's a certain .

well and won't SHE got the phone IT was always clear. This is not your personal device like we are allowed to like to take IT from you and to look at what's on is always known that because yeah there's if you want you know, privacy, especially as we've become teenagers, becomes much more important. And with my son, we've definitely stepped back a lot more as he turned sixteen.

But yeah, it's important to be able to know though what they're get in fed. And this is the problem with the algorithms. It's the same with youtube, no, tiktok, facebook, instagram, all of them even just google search.

I mean, you you don't know what they're going to come across. And I also have block kers on my internet. So you know that supposed to restrict adult sites and such like that this is a great because .

you know what you're doing and we other .

page know what you're doing. Yeah yeah. So I am always the one helping them set all this stuff up, but you know most parents don't have.

Maybe the government should spend more energy doing that.

eg educating agree because ultimately .

it's got to be parents and every parent has different standards yeah even within your family and your husband have different standards. But that's but that's your responsibility to work that out. I don't think take putting tiktok out of business seems like a pretty big hammer to solve this much more easily solved.

Well, if something else will pop up in its place, it's not going to go away.

will be there.

And my kids are about the same age, is yourself twenty nine and and my older doctors can be thirty three on thursday, happy birthday. So feel you want hear birthday. But yeah, when they when they were growing up, when they were Younger, we we did the same sort of thing.

Um je we went they they were they actually did have pcs in their in their rooms um which both of them helped to build. I built them with them and you walked them through the process of building their own pcs and installing windows and everything, but made IT clear that we would be checking in on on what they were doing. And I installed firewalls, various other software, to do some tracks. I didn't know. I went, I wasn't checking IT every day, but from time to time, I would just pop in and just see what sites there were they were hitting, and you make sure that they understood, know what was allowed and what wasn't, and know that we would from time to time, be checking in on them.

It's gonna go harder to check in on everything these days.

And now they multiple devices, they're Carrying them with them. I think I can imagine what I would be like if I had kids your age, your kids age right now. I mean, that would be so much harder.

It's a chAllenge parenting, and I will never criticize any parent for doing what they think is best and what they need to do. This is, this is the job and we don't get much training on turning and thereby away. We just kind of thrown in the deep end. And good luck, by the way, you said and I should have finished this the sentence I should declaim the fact that I am an investor in my son's a salt company. He has a company called the salt lovers club ary cells, fantastic flavoured sult of all kinds of salt lovers club that .

com I the truffle .

salt to try.

I buy by the case, I put on everything well, who does not? He's salt hank for a reason, but he's also getting into picks now. And he said, dad, I need a lot of capital to get into the pickl Epace.

I said, son, let me I write a chick, but I want ten percent of the company. So I am now proud on ten percent of the soul hk pickle business. And you know what you want to support your kids doing IT.

It's like, you know it's like if if suddenly they decided that the color pencils were bad for kids and trying to take them away because I know something that color pencils is bad form. Kids are creative. And what these are creative tools for them and encouraging them to be creative and IT seems like that's a good thing.

And I just look at hand and what he's done with these tools and i'm blown away. It's just really great that he had the opportunities to do that. And I think if your sun becomes a fire to pilot, got blessing, that's great. So the game he plays is flight at .

flight simulator yeah I think the microsoft for and .

it's amazing .

like here so I travel a lot for work, so heal like fly there .

with had time.

little path and and I always send in my flight number so he can check. And he has like apps where he sees where the planes are. Yeah, yeah, he loves IT. And see.

isn't this great look at that. He's totally into you right now. You don't know, I don't know.

I didn't know what hank was going to end up doing, but you give them all these options and you'll never know what's gona click, but went something clicks and IT really speaks to them. That's wonderful. And then they could make a living doing IT.

And I just think it's wonderful. I mean, he could be, he could be doing, call a do. There's a lot other things he could be doing .

that would not be produit, does really like what's .

the really .

G A while and now he's a huge car head like he loves the motorcycles. And I just .

for kids we want, we watched, I dream of gene or gilgan silent or whatever IT was. We watched, I mean, we ruin our brains too. I mean, this is what you do.

just you I was very, very cautious with the GTA stuff I like. I was not seen keen on that one at all. That just started a little while ago, like a year or so ago, but he was, I can do and I only do that like this like mod that you can do and cool and it's just .

it's like a sounds like a course I did do when .

he was really Young. I gave him one tae about an internet. An awful thing that happened to someone on the internet, which we don't need to repeat here. And he's like, mom.

that stuck with me. Yes.

I have. I never know. The whole thing for me was no online chats when he was Young. Like, I don't want you're talking to people you don't know. You have to know them in real life .

and you and appropriately scared him. That's a very good parenting to scared IT keeps them safe. You are watching this week tech, our tech news around table. We do this every sunday episode, one thousand one. So when I say we do this every sunday, we do IT every sunday at last twenty years samp samp is our car guy Jennifer patterson tui is now officially are our home in home home automation experts and aviation and tennis and parenting. Okay.

and definitely do tennis and never parenting .

IT sounds like you do. And pretty pretty done good right time doesn't IT. So doing the exactly the right thing I would say. Yeah, they don't give manual. They then yeah .

little letter on the smart home stuff. But so .

with my kids.

they're not fans. My wife is not either. The only thing that we actually have running connected is a couple of light strips in the living room and the the garage door opener I can control through google assistant. I drive different cars every week and so you know, being able to and I have my phone plugged in with android auto. So being able to open the garage door, tell me.

tell me you programmed your google assistant to open the garage door when you say to the bad gave Robin, tell me, please. I done. Let here, please, to the bad cave are shown.

They brought you by express VPN. Actually, this is a good tool for parents to know about, really cool for anybody who goes online, to know about going online without express VP and is like driving without car insurance. H you might be a great driver, but with all the crazy people on the road these days, why would you take that risk? It's the same thing with a VPN.

Every time you connect to a network and an encrypted network, whether it's a cafe, hotel and airport, you're not secure. Your data is travelling through an insecure connection. Worse, a bad guys on the same network as you are, right? And with things like the wifi pineapple, they can literally get into your computer, steal your personal data.

They can impose one of the tricks that uses impersonating your home router so that your computer goes, hey, your home, and IT joins their network on their computer, and now they're in IT. Doesn't take much technical knowledge to do this either. That pineapple, I think, is under one hundred box.

A smart twelve year old can do IT. Your date is valuable. Bad guys make money selling your personally fall on the dark where we know this. I mean, it's like a thousand dollars a person so you need to protect yourself online and your kids to to your whole family does express VPN stop hackers from stealing your data by creating a secure encysted tunnel that between your device and the public internet and all your data is in that tunnel means bad guys? No, I can't see your data.

But even if they are using something like that pineapple, they really can't see you and they certainly can't impersonate your home access points that your computer gets confused. It's just it's just they don't even see IT. They don't they can't do IT express VPN is the one I use is the one I recommend when I travel.

It's a great boon because I can still catch the football game. It's super secure. They use none, only strong encryption, but they also do. They go the extra mile, make sure that they don't do any logging, any tracking.

For instance, when you get your express VPN on your smart phone or your you could put IT on a router so the whole home is protected on a smart TV. But let's say, you put IT on your phone, there's a big button. You press the button now that spins up a server on express VPN network.

It's called the trusted server because IT runs only in RAM and IT doesn't have permission to access the hard drive. So no record of that can ever be saved. And then when you close, the connection is gone out of RAM and there is no trace of your visit as and by the way, third parties have ordered this and say, yes, that's exactly how works.

But as if that weren't enough, they run a very special version of debian that literally wipes the drive every reboot and starts over. And that's how committed express VPN is to protecting your privacy. So easy to use to fire up the APP click a button, you're protected works everywhere you are, phones, laptops, tablets every and as I said, you can didn't put on your router is a great way to keep your whole family secure because they look, it's not a free when I want to tell you right now, it's not a free one.

I don't think you should use a free VPN because you're gonna to monitor ze somehow. And that usually means that just spy on you instead, right with express VP, you're paying for IT and they take the money less to set box a month and invested in their infrastructure. That's how you can watch hd video over express VPN.

If you put that on your home router, no one will ever even know you're on a VPN. It's that fast rated number one by top tech reviews at seen that and yes, the verge, I think express VPN is really the only serious choice for a VPN yeah, not free, but worth every penny. Secure your online day to the day.

Visit express VPN a com slash to IT that's E X P R E S S V P N D com slashed to IT and to make this a little bit more enticing and extra three months free when you buy the one year package that brings the Price dumble o seven box express VPN dot com slash to IT protect yourself, protect your family. This is the way to do IT, the way I believe me. I ouldn't travel anywhere without express VPN.

Express VPN dot com slashed to IT. We thank so much for supporting this week in tech, nobel prizes have been awarded and in two different categories to A I scientists, Jeffery hinton, who is one of the AI dumas and the father of neural networks, won a nobel prize in physics. Jeffrey hinton, along with his partner john hop field, created neural networks.

This goes back to the eighties. The work they did in the eighties. They will share a one point one million dollar award from these royal swedish academy of sciences.

They created neural networks and studied neural networks in the eighties, IT says, setting the stage for the current boom. And artificial intelligence. It's fantasy. They didn't the eighties, but IT wasn't until more recently that we had enough computing power that really started to take off for foundational discoveries and inventions that enable machine learning with artificial neural networks. Ironically, Jeffery hintings, one of the guys who says the machines, you're going to eat us and watch out.

here they come. Frankston. monster. Hey, yeah.

I will talk about yan lcos response that just a second, there was a good article about him in the .

walls y tunnel. sorry. yeah. Most of the nobel prizes usually aren't awarded until many years or decades after the work that was done. Bit to see know what was the actual impact of IT? I think that's one that they look at.

which usually means winners are in their seventies or eighties. There wasn't exception in the nobel Price for chemistry this year. dems. Hassabis, who is the founder of deep mind, and not that all, I think he is a Younger guy.

He was a chest protection um and taught demand to play chess but he also taught him to do protein folding john jumper, another research scientists both at google one nobel Prices for physics for their research i'm sorry for chemistry for their research into proteins and protein folding uh the nobel committee says a sibs and jumper developed an AI model to solve a fifty year old problem predicting protein complex structures from their mino acid sequences. They share IT with David Baker, professor university washington, who use that technology to build entirely new kinds of proteins, something the academy said was almost impossible feat. A nobel prize in chemistry to, I don't think democratic is he's not only, he's even over forty.

So this is a rare one to to have some Young people. But this was that, in a way, it's notable because IT was such an amazing breakthrough. This protein folding, do you remember? You guys remember when you used to folding at home? IT was like a screen saver you'd put on your computer. And then you, everybody in the world, would be doing protein folding in their spare cycles.

Yes, I went on game consoles, puter and all kinds .

of doing that went a way because of this. I'm sorry. I see this is forty eight, so he's still so .

i'm going.

it's so Young.

Spring chicken.

you don't look forty seven at all, by the way, that shocks me. You look like you're twenty eight.

How do you? Zoom has good filters?

Oh, it's the room. Can I? Can I get one of them? Zoom filters for myself. He was a chest protection.

Actually there's a great picture of him um with the former woman's world champion jude poca who is wonderful celebrating his nobel prize with a hashtag you chess rules or something like that really cool he cov had a deep mind in london and twenty ten he's a fellow country person of yours Jennifer y google acquired them in twenty fourteen deep mind developed, of course deep was a deep blue, that beat scarf, and then deep, and then was a alpha zero, which defeated the one of the best players of go, which was long thought to be unsolvable without alphago. fold. So alpa fold is the is the protein folding? Anyway, that's that's quite cool. I don't know where his seba stands on. Do morison is interesting .

to see that the A I sort of the recognition coming now, right? Yeah this sort of crucial point where, yes, it's a shown its potential.

But now what is that potential going to turn into? And and some of this stuff, obviously, you know it's creating the ability to unlock secrets that we thought we're going na be impossible in terms of, you know, in the site, in the world of science and being able to the pack the can, combined with compute power and LLM been able to solve problems that we've never thought we could solve. You know, ultimately, A I could have a huge positive impact on humanity, but there's always, always the dark side .

as we stone. Deep blue was IBM, that's right, deep fakes. Epu was IBM. And that was alf go in an alpha zero at which I thinks even Better than deeply.

So well, this is interesting because it's clear that there are valuable things that A I is already doing. I mean, that's what the nobel committee things. And I think the protein folding is a very good example. Yeah on the con, who is one of the, along with hitting and hassabis is one of the great AI people, his chief scientist and meta professor. And yu, he says, going to the last street journalist week, a is dump than a cat, which if I were you gennifer .

by a little IT my very no, maybe you have an a dog. I mean.

well, that's a good point. I don't know, dumber or smarter after all, who do we wait hand and foot on the dog or the cat?

The cat, I know maybe they're .

a little smarter, I think.

I mean, this is an interesting area sort of understanding that the reasoning behind A I right, that's what this .

is about yeah, they're all talking about how AI is reasoning. Now in fact, law says the fears about technologies, the technology is existential peril. Rbs, he says, excuse my french, but I don't think B S is french.

But okay, he's a friend of jeffrey hin. But he says, today's A M models, while useful, are far from traveling, the intelligence of our pets, let alone us. When I ask whether element, this is the wall street journal reporter Christopher.

When I ask whether we should be afraid that ais will soon grow so powerful they pose a hazard to s equipments. You're going to have to part on my french, but that's complete P. S.

I actually like yang micon. I think he's probably closer to the truth. We're talking a lot these days about these reasoning a eyes. But at the same time, when you look at the so called reasoning that you they're doing, it's not all that impressive. Let me see if I can know.

Yeah we had a reporter um at the verge, kyi really Kelly robson, and write really interesting article today about this but not today last week, october and what day is IT yes. And you understanding we know. So we were talking about agents and how the agents, you know, is sort of the future is what AI companies are of moving towards now and then. But understanding that the reasoning, the idea behind reasoning is causing a lot of these failures, like, know what we hear so much about AI today is what IT gets wrong. There's so much publicity around the fails and the problems that we're seeing with AI, not so much publicity around what A I is actually achieve ing like things that these noble.

some good things, but I think understand the .

limits of IT right? yes.

And no, no, no.

you you say no. And this this is one of the the big chAllenges around automated driving is a lot of companies have shifted to a more and more AI centric approach to that software away from rural based solutions.

And that has some some problems, especially from a safety perspective in terms of trying to understand how the system is working and validating you is IT actually going to do what I want IT to do because IT IT starts to become less and less predictable when you do that. Um and a great example a few weeks ago, company called mci that does a lot of testing um in the automotive industry. They do work for a bunch of different companies as well as their own independent testing. They did a thousand mile test with the tesla model three with the latest generation of the fsd software um and they did a four different types of driving city streets, highway, driving a rural two lane roads and mountain roads and what they found was a lot of the time the system worked really, really well but IT also um for no apparent reason, repeating the exact same scenario on the same roads and same conditions would do completely the wrong thing and they found that over the course of a thousand miles of driving IT did things that we're so wrong that required a significant human intervention on average about every thirteen miles.

See that the problem, if IT drives twelve miles perfectly, but the last mile drives you into off a Cliff, that's kind of a problem .

and problem.

But a IT also makes .

me wonder about .

the scalability .

of what people like you. Let me ask, talking about fsd full self driving, if a human has to, is one thing that there's a driver which there is a current testers, but when you get to these driverless, autonomous vehicles, does that mean that there has to be a human at the home office that intervenes every thirteen miles?

Well, we see this. The reason I find fascinating because this is something A I gender. A I is becoming big in the smart home, right? This what's gone to bring the smart home to the next level, to make IT, so that everyone, even the grumpy og men, love emotion.

Are you, are you turned to me or sam because i've got the buttons because it's got it's .

going to make IT easy and it's going to hopefully bring a lot more value to home automation in the smart home. And but but that you know what we've seen with hallucinations from AI and from things like the thirteen miles is a great example because your home is a similar issue. You you cannot have one thing go wrong and that could .

it's okay if the rumba doesn't eat the pet nine out of ten times or the cat .

is a robot yeah doesn't like slice the cat head off when IT turns, which unfortunately happened well.

And there a problem with these robots with cat poop on the ground, like don't they just smear IT across the floor?

Oh, the river of accounts, yes. So that now they are using .

A I to identity was like .

pop kept to accidents and go around them.

They took eye to do that.

Wa computer vision. So yeah, they have cameras and they .

so here's this is maybe this is what your colleague was written about. Apple came out with a White paper this week that was very interesting, understanding the limitations of mathematical reasoning. Yeah, in large language models.

This, they gave us some examples. What happens with these large language models is there highly distract. They can't really determine what's important and what's not important.

So they gave them some task that you would probably find fairly easy to solve, but they found that these, these A S just got completely confused by them. Let me see if I can. Here's an example of one mini and lama three ab failed at this seep. Now don't look at the answer, kids. Let's see if you can answer this.

Oliver. No, this is here's .

the point that sounds hard. It's not it's only hard for an A I. All of her picks key over three days as follows.

Friday he picks forty four keys. Saturday picks fifty eight keys. Key weeds of fruit by the ways we're not talking about newseum liners, sunday could .

be picking up in these ones OK. We don't know. It's sunday, guus.

He picks up double the number he picked on friday, which was forty four, right? So it's forty four plus fifty eight plus eighty eight. Double forty four is for the total number of key ways.

But here's the thing that the A I can solve. But if you add one sense, however, on sunday, five of these key s were smaller than average. The A I goes, oh, that changes everything. And actually subtracts the five from the total.

And to give the wrong answer, both of one many to read the strawberry, the reasoning one and lama three, ab did the same thing and took out those five key ways that were small, an average. This is an isolated example. They have many, many examples of this in the paper.

Where is IT? Seems that these so called reasoning LLM s don't really know what's important and what's not important. And actually this says the this exposes a critical flaw in alam. This is from the paper in alums ability to genuinely understand mathematical concepts and desert relevant information from problem solving, adding seemingly seemingly relevant but ultimately inconsequential information to the logical reasoning of the problem LED to performance drops of up to sixty five percent across all state of the art morals they all fell for IT.

And that's the problem right there.

and might even be the problem with that self driving car, or the rumble that ate the cat.

Is that no members of eaten cats? By the way, different thing.

Sorry.

just a litter robot.

It's really it's really very will talk about on my great because this apple research and it's very interesting. I think this is highlights what .

and limitations that the living going to make this yeah .

and this is something that is should be you're just passing a word problem, which we all learn to do should be easy in great school. Yes, yeah.

but that's that this is was going to save us though isn't IT right? We're always going we want to ahead because we can always be smarter than the AI is is the hope here.

But you know, we want to get the benefits out of the AI and what you can do and taking out some of the well, some of the grind that we haven't, you know we don't want to a do every day, some you know being able to help us summarize emails, those kind of things, I think a fun going to be useful. But ultimately, applying A I to like significant problems in the world and create finding solutions is going to be Better than bringing AI to our daily lives. I feel like, do we really need this huge compute power to summarize our emails or to make our homesick?

I mean, it's going to be cool. It's going to be fun. But we do need to think quite carefully. I think about IT before we move forward too quickly. And IT feels like a lot of companies are just .

rushing in the .

money or guns blazing. yes. And you know how much of this is really going to benefit us in the long run? I think this is where legislation needs to come in. I do think we need some legislation around what .

what is that more selected.

I I think we need to be smart. The legislation .

we that's the problem.

Well, first of consumers of A I, okay, so when we is journalists, when we talk about A I, the thing that confuses IT is there are some genuinely useful things I can do, right?

Yes, just I D yeah.

People, people make this projection that, well, if it's this good now, it's going to be this good in a year and this good and do you and IT doesn't work that way. And so they're making projections about the capabilities. This is another paragraph from the authors of that we found no evidence of formal reasoning in language models.

We found no evidence of formal reasoning in language models. Their behavior is Better explained by sophisticated pattern n imagining matching. So fragile, in fact, that changing names can alter results by ten percent.

It's import that you don't need the state of california to write a law telling you that you need to know IT. That's all. And we as journalists need to tell people that and lower expectations. And the problem is you've got people like elon musk, sam Allen saying, well, the good news is they'll be no poverty in ten years when that's complete bs, that's not true.

I feel like there there the youth cases, right? There are so many things that we could be using generated AI for. And I feel like we need to be very that's where there needs to be some oversight like let's not go down the roads that could lead us. You do you think the .

communist state legislature is smart enough to say, well, use IT for that, but don't use IT for that?

Well, someone has to be smart, yes, but I don't think .

it's a california state legislature or the current no, because that's not their job and that should not be their job. The scientist, I mean, maybe if you had some sort of liability law saying, hey, if your AI is used and does something really terrible, was responsible, not the AI yeah.

math, I think like that mats got to be made very clear, I think from math already started. But IT needs to be clear that this is not a human. This is computers, just like cars. They're not responsible for what they do. There is someone behind the wheel, whether they're actually behind the wheel or not.

That is response to IT. Yes yeah. Created IT needs to be libel for whatever IT does wrong yeah. And certainly this is you. In my sector in automotive, this has been one of the issues around assisted automated driving systems.

If you're going to automate something and you're onna, take IT out of the hands of a human driver, traditionally, the human driver is the one that's a libel when they make a mistake. If software is now making those mistakes, the company that created that software and that put IT on the road, they have to be label for IT. This is this is one of the the things I was asked by a reporter before the the tesla ivan on thursday.

What are what are the questions that that we should be looking for answers to from this event? And one that I that I specifically said and that was not answered during the event, was ill. Is tesla finally going to accept responsibility for for their self driving system when IT, when IT does something wrong and IT does that pretty frequently, will tesla be liable when that system causes the vehicle to crash?

Or are they trying to get at IT?

And they have they would ve never acknowledged that. They would ve never specifically stated. No one of the only companies that has said that know that they will be actually most most bottle makers have said that if they if they put automated driving systems on the road, they will be responsible for when IT in a way more, for example, they're libel if they get.

if a testy has in past court cases, blame the drivers right?

Because it's not for self driving to specifically .

call IT in a system system and all of their their their language.

not the marketing language, just in the legal language.

Yeah when you in in the disclaimer you when you first engage IT you know IT says you know you are as you the driver are responsible if anything goes wrong um and so know by that definition, if the human is responsible it's not a self driving system.

right? I want to be clear. I'm bullish on the I am excited about what I think you are too, Jennifer.

I'm excited about what I can do. I think it's really important. We understand its limits and we don't overhype IT.

And this this new study, I think is really, really important because IT underscores what's really going on. It's not reasoning. It's patent matching and .

that that really does make IT quick. I am. So it's simplifies IT so nicely.

I mean, A I donate A I understanding all of this is very deep and complicated, but this that really does because I think there's this real fear amongst people that and and it's been overheard, ed, the fear has been overheard. Ed, specifically that IT is the AI. AI is going to take over the world and and remove human, remove humans. Y, I mean, this is what I mean, hinton has very much, he said.

killer rob, the world.

the AI is going to destroy humanity. And there, is that a big thing to put out there. That's what you hear on the nightly news. You know, that's what most people are getting the sort of feedback of, not what the benefits are and what the beefs could be. So there's this just a real baLance that needs to be done, and i'm not sure the companies are necessarily going to managed to do that well. I mean, elon mask has already demonstrated that over hyping of what is his vehicles are going to be capable love. So we just I feel like there needs to be the guard rails need to be there and where those are going to come from right now, it's it's hard to see some some companies are doing a good job of a IT and others are and OpenAI particular is an interesting that started out as a nonprofit. And now all we've suddenly realized that this might be Better if we make some money out of this.

a lot of money.

what we're going to make.

one hundred sixty seven .

billion dollars. And the companies that deploy A, I need to be careful about this, and i'll create my own employer, you know here when when a lot of the stuff start coming out last year, they sound out a notification to everybody, said he, look, you're not allow to use any of this stuff, any of these A I tools for your work for the time being because we're going to go through and evaluate, you know, what does this do, how does that work and where can we use IT responsibly? Um and they still they're still some pretty severe limits on what we're allowed to do with any AI stuff.

A lot of that is, is based on making sure that the any data that goes into IT is protected in because of the delights that we have. We don't want date proprie data or private data to be shared, but also just understanding you know what what which of these systems can work because they know that they will ultimately be responsible if we use our tools and they give the wrong results for for the work that we're doing. And I think every company needs to be much more circumspect in how they roll out AI and not just not just throw jai into everything they do, but to to be very careful about how you do IT and really test IT hard and make sure that it's it's actually providing a benefit and that it's not causing more problems than it's solving.

And I think it's our responsibility as journalist recovery to help the american people, the worlds people, understand what I can and cannot do. The things is useful for the things that shouldn't be used for. And it's up to all the citizens of the world to learn.

This is not fall for the hype. It's too bad we have these hype monsters like example len, and the line must get there promoting this stuff. And IT really is self serving for people like Jeffery y.

Hinton, nobel laureate now jeffrey hn, to say all there's A I. They're good because it's IT kind of promotes the work they've done. But IT promotes IT beyond what is gonna doing or capable of doing.

I think it's really important that we spread that word. And I think i've been hesitant to do that only because I didn't really understand haven't understood IT enough. It's been so new, we're still tying to grapple with IT.

But I think papers like this, gary Marcus wrote a very good peace on subjeck LLM don't do formal reasoning, and that's a huge problem that talks about this apple peace. H, I think we need to take this to heart and understand IT and and start to put in into into our our work because this is our job to tell people about this stuff. Instead, they we're going to be reading and really interesting book for Stacy's book club a week from friday.

It's called service model by an author, chekhov sky, who reads IT, by the way, and order able and disappoint up. It's about service robots. And it's fascinating.

It's told through the point of view of the service robot. And it's really about the service robots, humans trusting the service robots so much that they allowed them distressed vilification. It's a very good book.

Sounds good.

Mean, it's it's very interesting. And clare in the sun, you just money .

on .

apple TV plus.

I I can't watch that with my husband because he would just say, I told you so yeah.

we how .

dare he be right? What's the point of Sunny? I don't .

know that one. It's said in japan .

about robots .

and involves .

A I .

and A I and legs of .

times to life in .

your home played russia. Jones. H, I love her. Yeah, he dies in the first episode, but the rest of the her trying to find out what happened. And um you is IT good.

I'm not i'm not going to tell all the yes, but basically, you know, A I is involved and robots and basically trying to create service robots, create a service robots. wow. And things go badly. Clearly.

I have to watch this before we do the book club on the twenty fifth, because this is, this is relevant to services model. So read the book and join us in the book club. If you remember of club twit, we'll be doing IT live. I would like to extend an invitation, new genre, if you want to join us in.

I love to spend any time. I get to spend the day. He is good time. Yeah, I really.

Well, i'll send you the information if you can do IT unfortunate.

Up to be twenty five is my husband's s birthday though oh.

the hell with him. He thinks robots are bad and I know that's probably you should do next to yeah, it's the priorities yeah .

but this is a different day for sure yeah almost want .

to move IT just just to make that work he did. Jones is pretty amazing Quentin Jones daughter, great actor, but also a great director and producer. She's quite an impressive person yeah, really need. I will be watching Sunny later too.

Was IT good those time?

Yeah I mean, it's that perfect. There's some flaws. But um overall, I thought I was really interesting um and it's it's an interesting look at what's going on with with A I and robotics and and and and people you know people's people, people really the core of IT is humans relationship with A I and and robots and what that ultimately means and what what the potential effects of that are.

Let's take a break. You are watching this week in tech with sam, a bull sameer, car guy and the Jennifer to he who is now our everything person and our AI person.

Now I have a cat .

and has a cat. What the dog turned to do .

a cat and how did?

But that's not the cat.

He wanted to eat, wanted to eat. But this is my first cat, yes. Who now has a new baby brother. This is smoky.

I, smoky. Perfect name for a smoke cat.

yes. okay.

Smoky, our show today brought to you so we can gennifer sam and smoky OK, so I get this way. Our show today brought to you by zip cruder, we use this product. We love this product, is recruit is the smartest way to hire.

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Zip cator is the smartest st way to hire. And there is some with his two cute penrose corgis over his shoulder. I want a dog so badly. Jennifer, did you have the dog first of the cats first?

At dogs first. My, so I had two dogs. This have guys who was a wire head pointing grafton.

And I also riff on that. Sounds is in griffard that sounds .

very british actually, dutch duch for duck. And then we outside a borda aria little board, Terry called Winnie. And I had cats when I met my husband, and he said, i'm alerted to cats.

And then when we got married, I was like, I want to bring my cats over from england, don. I go, be really hard for them. And they know we live an idea how they would get eaten by eagles.

So he talked. He was really fight the hard fight. He did not want those.

I'm allergic. They're going to get to eaten by eagles. They're gona suck the breath out of the babies. It's not good.

yeah. And then we got dog, lovely dog, a first griffin, an amazing breed. Highly recommend. He was a hunting dog, which was why? Because my husband hunted like up lydd, like pleasant and coil. And anyway, this point is as a point to under retriever, that they were designed as the ultimate .

hunting dog by .

a gentleman point and trip or.

and they're so cute, I and the best family dog. So when we moved to chest, and unfortunately, our first dog passed away and we got the same breed again because they're just wonderful. And then a little bit later, my my children really wanted to catch, and my husband was, no, i'm logic alert.

C can't get one. Like we'll get one. This an outward cat. And guess whose favorite person in the .

house is the cat?

Is he still who went? Have allergy tests? And guess who's not alleged cans? There was a story what he is allegiance .

to griffons.

So it's like carmody de, and now we went and got another cap, which he did not want. I actually literally said, my dog, my service, set my son to the pet store to buy pet food for the cat. And he came home with a kitten.

Your household sounds like a lot of, I have to say, chickens. You have chickens.

chickens.

Oh, we used to have some backyard chickens and our all are older, are two generations ago. Uh, cory, um really coexist ted very well with the hands in the backyard.

Oh yeah, I don't want .

the chicken s but I do want the eggs.

I guess you have to, let's see, that's why we have the chicken s was for the egg. The chickens were actually a lot of fun. And the thing we had to watch out for was the hawks, because the holes we get.

the chickens, they don't tend to get. The cats that was a .

baby will go after the chickens, and they did go after our our hands on more than one occasion, yes, but didn't the hack never got any, but a reckon did.

So I know that happened to us to I now have a smart chicken cup, though, and IT has an AI powered camera that sends me alert when the .

spots reckons or it's text .

deductable .

wll get back to more with neutral of omaha's wild kingdom .

they want to spot.

Gx, yeah, you know, very impressive.

You don't need a spot. Gx, you can smell them a while and have, you know.

yeah, but by the time you smell them, it's too late to you want to spot tom before .

you can smell on the hard working wired hired pointing griffon in renowned as the supreme gn dug IT will be ironic if I A non hunne gun on her head. The supreme .

gundo is known for the well.

I like this harsh, low shear coat.

and they are hybrid. So don't say my scribe in a house with .

the like. With this, I was Robin up against this party yesterday, and my black fleas was covered.

The other, there's class fur around the house come.

yeah.

So the griffin are .

no so like human hair. So yeah, they don't shed really at all. And if you alert to dogs, they don't have that same. I the akc .

says they're known for an extremely harsh and brisket coat that gives them a natural untempted pear.

They have keep brush. You have to use a special brush, but they don't really need to. They are great dogs, and they have like beard and moustache.

Yes, this is a lavish and eyebrows frame, large, rounded eyes that gleam with a keen intelligence.

Very smart, not smart as the cat though.

No, no dog as smart as a cat. We know that. So did you either of you watch the HBO documentary that came out a week ago on bitcoin? I did not.

And they unmask.

They claim to have unmasked sati OK motto. You did not. Did you want?

I did. I just cancelled HBO because I had was trying to coast cut. And then my daughter said, but that means I can't watch hn Oliver, so we just .

renewed educational.

a little adult.

very good. But he has a pushing this action. So comes.

comes fine. So no, but I will. I will be watching this now that I have resubscribe ed, because this is very interesting. I did read the wide story of a little bit of that.

I think IT, by the way, you if do you ever received dex? And that seems like you do. You have did you go to a public school?

Yes, you mean english public .

school as in a year? Yes.

I did. I went to A A private school, this public.

they know you have to have, you have the received quite posh receive cent.

I have the queens english.

you do, you speak the queens s english.

And then changed by twenty years. And my people in america.

oh no, the american hasn't seeped through tall.

No, no, I won't try myself thern accent, then it's not as good as yours.

I can deal my people at a time of great trouble. So setoc a model is the probable sustain of the person who created bitcoin, person or persons. We don't know who created bitcoin, and there is a lot of interesting who IT is.

There are bitcoin people who will say, what doesn't matter? Why do you need to know who invented IT? IT doesn't matter because big coin is bitcoin and know it's the technology and all that stuff.

IT doesn't ter a little bit, because IT is thought that the person or persons who are sitting OK motto control more than one million bitcoin, which of today's Prices? More than sixty billion dollars. And if bitcoin goes to a million dollars, as many of these bitcoin brows say he will, he would be a truly on air and one of the wealthiest person in the world. And should he cash the bitcoin, and they would collapse the economy of bitcoin. So I think IT is kind of important.

Who did important? Did you ever find your bitcoin passed?

Oh, you know about that.

Everybody knows about that.

I feel it's a first savings. But I have to say, if big com does get to a million dollars, those seven point eight five big coin are going to be very hitchy in there. I'm going to really want to, well, it's bad.

I'm gonna work on IT. I am going to work on IT because but the thing is if I had had access to IT, I won't sold IT. Like when biton was a thousand dollars, I said i've got eight thousand dollars.

I'm wealthy and I wouldn't have held at all this time. I only held IT because I had no choice. What's quantum plant on computing?

Oh.

oh yeah, no. Look, I figured a retirement plan by the time .

I need .

IT to get away. Yeah, I mean, it's just R, S, A eclipse. It's not, you know, impermeable so they say, and by the way, the guy who did this, I think, successfully unmasked q of the q and on conspiracy, that documentary .

I did watch that was very interesting.

I was good. Don't you feel like he got to the .

the root of IT felt like IT yeah, yeah.

Well, this is, in my opinion, very similar, and it's done in a similar way. The colon hobby, who is the documentary? Who did this and the peace? Can I spoil IT for you or I for me?

I don't know. We everyone .

else IT ends. So there's he talks about all the possibilities, right? He ends talking to somebody who is a pretty unlikely candidate.

His name is Peter todd. He was a precocious high schools to don't know, maybe little older than that. Well, precious high school student.

We first was became known to the bitcoin community and would have been twenty two when the bitcoin paper was written, claims not to know c plus plus. Of course, bitcoin code originally was c plus plus. But there is some circumstantial evidence that makes, if you watch IT, makes one think IT might be him.

And then what he does, this color, how back is, is a very nice style. He got the two people, who I would say are the most likely candidate together in a deserted factory in chacha. And they're standing on a platform and he's down. They're looking at them and accuses him Peter tota being saatchi, which makes Peter tide pretty squarely you you know there's no the evidence is inconclusive but I think Jennifer, as a as a stood observer of human foibles, you might be able to watch this and o guilty i'm thinking, yeah i'd be very curious what your thoughts are yeah because I thought you nailed the guy.

Furthermore, there was another guy at a backstory ding right behind him, who is widely considered to be the only person who really knows for sure who sit shi knockmedown is because he had early conversations with him back also created something right before bitcoin on a hash coin, which was an early implementation of a digital critter currency and is the only person named in the bitcoin paper. IT specifically refers to add them back and hash coin. And I am standing there going.

Not a good poke face then.

I think i'm watching this and I think the two of them actually are so totally that they did a hand in hand yeah, because I needed at and backs kind of old. He mentored Peter, although Peter touch says, I mentor that and back Peter touch, okay, and this is the problem. The bit going community hates Peter because he's kind of a tool, just like the q and I guy was kind of a troll, right? And I think, I think Colin might have nail that.

I have got IT that's very yeah I like I will watch this probably more interested. Watch less than Sunny. I watch husband, watch this.

It's actually he's interested. bitcoin. It's a pretty good premium bid. Equine doesn't really focus on the negatives, just the the potential doesn't really talk about the fact that is going to cause climate change in you know, that is being used by rand and wear artists and psy schemers. And that is said, but you know, it's a good it's a good kind of sand up of what's going on with the big coin.

I love a good mystery .

too and it's a and i'm very curious because you can't say definitely ly oh, but the circumstantial evidence and he sure looked so quarterly and anoma. Acs, just really like 也。 There have been many who have claimed to have unmasked toshi. There is a real .

with the stories come up a few times in the past.

but Peter type points out is a real risk to him if he is toy okemos because a kidnappers would love to get a hold of him and extort the bitti in. So he kind of has implied that he's destroyed IT. Here's some more interesting evidence there.

You could, I could destroy my wallet by just thrown IT out. Steve gibson destroyed fifty bitcoin by a racing the hard driver. So there are ways to do this.

But no, you just dumb ly throw IT out. But anyway, he's regrets IT. Now that's fifty times sixty thousand. You do the math. But but there is also an efficient way to burn bitcoin in public in a way. So on the block chains would know, oh, that bitcoin is no longer usable, which if setoc oomoa really cared about the bitcoin economy and was willing to give up trillions, a trillion dollars, he would do right, because that would reassure everybody. Oh, those original mind coins are no longer in .

play ability. Stabilizes system and Peter .

type claims to have burned a lot of bitcoin, but we don't know how much, and we don't know, and he didn't do in public. So all of the toshi s corner, theoretically still in play. If I were Peter todd, I would immediately burn in public because that otherwise the kidnapper's you go on after you, he's kind of disappeared. Plus some of those original coin have moved lately as soon as the story before the document came out, but as soon as the the promotional materials came out saying that we've nailed IT, some of those coins moved. So I don't know .

if I like .

the story. I don't know. I keep bring that up and nobody has anything say. Because who knows, who knows your former nation could destroy the dot I O domain that .

doesn't IT.

Did you know about this?

Yeah, I thought there. There's thought they sold all. They divested the british government divested itself of ownership of an island that I didn't know IT owned. We had lots of them. apparently.

This is the one last of the one little last legacy. So apparently since eighteen fourteen, the united kingdom, Charles Rogers, I don't know where sar gos, I don't know the chagos islands, which are a territory in the in the notion they've controlled, it's been economy. Is that economy? I guess that is since eighteen fourteen macias. The animal cious disputes this. They say you stole IT as usual.

use stolar. We settled .

by the french in the seventeen hundred so plush go shagging islands. The french gave the struggle islands to macias. Oh sorry and i'm sorry. The french gave macias and the shuga s islands to the british in eighteen fourteen.

Cities is a great place.

Is that have you been immersed?

Ous vacation? But my friends go there.

Will I want to go to emerge ous? I like the idea. Are there monkeys?

I don't know.

I think there are monkeys.

Sounds like a place that could have monkeys.

Anyway, it's in the indian ocean. Dot I O the di o domain is the notion dot I O and its associated a shag's silences, which are not part of mercies. They are part of the grape.

And accept in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five, the U. K. Granted meritis its sovereignty, but they kept the shadow silence, making IT the british indian ocean territory that I O now IT is striking an example of colonel ism. They removed the chagossians people so the us. Could build a military base.

It's youth is a.

well, we're just good friends across the ocean, you know its hands across the ocean more than fifteen one hundred native chagossians were displaced. By the way, that that I O code is worth a lot of money. Um for instance, anguilla, which has the dot AI, is projected to make between twenty five and thirty million dollars a year from websites with the that AI domain. I bet that I always worked more that right. So what .

happens to IT?

Now I know.

So that's the question. Yeah companies like google di O H di o Greenhouse that I O open c the N F T A market is open sea that I O many, many years that I O just destroy .

the internet who it's dumb .

over you could break the um the folks who assign al this he used to be icon is now iana. The internet signed numbers authority has a process for retiring country codes within five years. For instance, dot su was the old soviet union, because a lot of scams started to use that.

Su, they retired. IT, same with that. Why you for yoga? Slavia, they retired. IT, right? I remained Operational for a while, but after about five years, they retired.

So we don't know what's going to, according to the verge of you, to them going to the verge. It's you. By the way, I should give you guys credit because .

about ninety percent of the story we do from .

the verge, pretty. I I mean, the competition .

is unfortunately, I dying of its mean.

I an a non tech went away. I more just went away.

I feel so bad, sad um but .

there's something about box. They are able to keep the verge alive and well.

Anyway, no idea how I have nothing to do with us.

They still put the checkout bounds right, right? OK, that's all you care about.

Yeah yes.

although i'm not sure I D wanted be in the tech journalism business right away.

If I am ang .

on and is your fault.

i'm in this too.

It's my fault you were covering cars. He thought this a good move.

wasn't actually covering cars. I just managed to get on that pressure IT.

But so good though.

though I wanted to go with the lifestyle, with that car that was the kinds, and I was working for a lifestyle magazine at the time. But yes, tech, Donald M, A tough world, but it's fascinating world is that we think we covered this evening like I me to me.

it's always been it's the toy store, but it's important. Yeah so it's like the best of both worlds. You can do sports, which is the toy ter, but not important.

Or you could do technology, which is the toy ter, but IT is important. Like this, I think is important. Yeah, yeah. I know know about this, that I O thing the verge says for now is still too early to tell what will become of the di o demand, whether we will go through a transitional period like that. Why you or if I ana will let the chagossians, the poor old chagossians, where now on some other island keep IT, I think they should .

let him keep IT probably keep that country going .

for a long time yeah, IT is interesting .

how fragile the foundations of this. It's all held string and chewing them.

Yes, alright, let's take one last break in the couple more stories and then we will will let you go because it's got it's almost three hours. They warned you, right? Jennie.

no, but that's fine. I've listened to lots of twins.

Nobody told you. You thought you'd be home in time for tea. But no.

I put a chicken in the event my family's eating that not wanted. My chicken .

was IT Sally or Jennifer, which what do you name your chickens? I don't because .

there we have the same breeds, so they all look so tried. Plus is hard to .

eat something once you name IT, I don't we don't eat us there.

just the ex.

the x you don't want to eat laying chickens.

They're not designed for that either. They don't taste .

good kind string in.

Yes, they don't don't have a whole lot of meat on them. Yeah.

we have wild turkeys, and I learned that. But maybe if I get this griffin hunting dog.

did you .

catch the turkey? Catch them .

that you need to shoot .

them to shoot the first.

to shoot the turkeys.

Yeah, have to get one and then and get a.

you should get a griffin. But you could can skip the hunting .

part is not Mandate. They feel sad like they're not living up to their .

my so I guess that we have here. So when we had an idaho hunted, but there's nothing you can't hunt really in south CarOlina, I and less and they sent can't trieve in the world. No, they people do, but it's different kind of hunting, not the type this stock .

was bread first kind of how you go to jail for. Is that what you're say.

just as I call private land, and there is a very different from our west, the hunting .

in the sounds you .

things like that in areas .

in unting.

there is dear hunting, but you don't deer hunt with dogs, not this type of dogs. And there are people that hunt with, but that's a whole different.

Now these are bird dogs.

You exactly. So if you need water and you can't go in the water here because we have.

Allegation ors will like that.

yes. So it's not yeah so he doesn't hunt and he's never hunted and he's .

one never hut. He sits .

on the court. She's a real laptop so yeah but we don't have .

any .

sheep calle for .

our corgis to heard. But thirty content.

Do you think they'd hunch scrub jays, because I hate those damp scrub jays.

I would. He hunts the mls. He hunts the mall.

And I about kills. That's good. Get rid of the most unlike them either.

He so he digs and finds them and smoky grabs them, because smoking is much quicker than cuss.

Oh, teamwork.

It's teamwork. It's great to watch smoke. You will start trying to dig with his tiny little pause. And then .

so steric daily.

Daisy are at togi SHE caught at least three rabbits in our backyard. And i'm aware of.

well, I have a rabbit too. I didn't mention that .

today what is going on in in the two household?

I know I always wanted a little farm, so I just kind.

we had a rabbit and then we move to the country and I thought, oh, fly free rabbit. So i'll let him out of the cage. And the next morning all I found was a little puffy.

Tae or no, there was nothing left.

They got, I don't know what bottom, but he, he didn't.

wasn't prepared .

for the country life. He was a city rabbit.

I know little .

john y wall IT was dogs .

probably finish him.

Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Could a bit. I think he was a hawk.

We have a lot of hock. yeah.

Our show today brought you, but thank you for being here. If folks we help you and job this enjoy this discuss ve presentation gennifer you know sometimes but there's only two people. It's more discursive because there's like it's just fun.

We're just hanging out chatting and so good to have you. Jennifer patterson, I is the two. E the fireman of the patterson.

the fireman. The two is my husband's name.

Paris is my pin's. Your many, are you any relation to Robert patterson?

I wish he's gotten end in his. He's .

pattison. We do think .

we might be related to the tues from the blind side though. Oh.

those guys, yes, standard bulk. Any company? Yes not so popular anymore.

No but distantly related because it's unusual .

spelling from area .

were he's from nevada originally, but his family his father is from um canada billington kinder area. I know these .

were vata because you pronounce IT properly, which is probably very difficult for you as a british .

drummed into my head, not the other. Yes.

it's great to have you, Jennifer.

It's great to have you sent a best of IT.

Oddly enough, you seem to be doesn't not Normally what happened so good.

And like everybody, y's always happen.

not in the third hour usually. Guess that's when the teeth riding begins our show to the last ads.

So have a different .

new cats, dogs, do chickens, everything new? I sure that they brought to you by a mint mobile due, I have to say, as a mint mobile customer, I am a big fan and I often wonder why more people don't use mint mobile. I think probably because they don't believe this could possibly be as good deal as IT is or maybe they think, oh, i've got to jump through a lot of hop.

There's a lot of bs. I mean, I thought so when my mobile said you can get wireless for fifteen dollars a month when you buy a three months plane, I said, no, you know, there's got to be a catch. There's some meeting up cell in this.

No, really, it's true. IT really is that easy to get wireless for fifteen dollars a month? You know, you can even bring your phone number.

That might be the hardest part is get the old company. The one is charging youth ten times more to to leave you alone. Move in. I want to break up. You can move your phone number and it's required by the fcc.

So you porch your number over, they will send my model, send assistance so you can use your existing phone, which means you have to change anything or you can get a phone from memo. That's what I did. I ve got a very nice iphone S, C.

For fifteen books of months, and then i've got the service for fifteen books months. What do you get for fifteen books month? Unlimited nationwide talk and text, plus five g data on the nation's best five g network. So if you have team mobile coverage where you are and you are paying ninety hundred box a month for team mobile, get the same exact service for fifteen dollars a month.

And by the way, right now, as an introductory plan, all all of their data plans, including the unlimited plans, or fifteen dollars a months, for the first three months, you get high speed data, unlimited talk and text of the nationalist largest five g network. Bring your own phone will they will send you the sim for free, or you could do an e sim that uz sem as well. Make IT the thing instant.

Find out how easy is to switch to the best, most affordable coverage there is in the country. Min mobile, three months of premium wireless service for fifteen dollars a month now to get this new customer offer. And you knew three months premium wireless planned for fifteen bucks a month.

You go to mint mobile 点 com slash to IT mint mobile dog com slash to IT cut you what I know it's hard to believe that seems like to me IT seems like if everybody knew that you only have to pay fifteen bucks a month for your cell phone， why would you do anything else? Cut your wireless build to fifteen bucks a month. Admit mobile dotcom slashed to IT forty five dollar upfront payment required that fifteen dollars per months for three months, new customers on the first three months plan only speed are slower above forty gigabytes on the unlimited plan, but that's a lot of data.

Additional taxes, fees and restrictions do apply. Look, the best thing to do go to mt. Mobile and find out more mt mobile dock com slashed to what we love them.

I have to say, I just, I love IT. And I I think everybody should use IT, my mobile 点 com flash。 Twit, no, no, no, no.

Are we done? We could be. Oh, do you like intendo alarm clock? You do the story on that. Jennifer.

is that really I didn't I didn't get to do the story unfortunate because I was in new york, but my colleague Chris, got to go check that out.

And well.

I was excited about this because when a few months, a few weeks ago.

it's so cute in a big snooze button.

that's what I like.

I marry .

the snooze button. I think I should be. But yes, IT wakes you up with all .

different. That's not a good way to wake up.

No, there's lots of intendo themed alarm sounds. So like elder and all sorts of you can choose from A A huge array. But what's interesting about IT and what caught R I before this launched actually was that leaked the fcc spects for the device leaked. And I has a uwb radio, not uwb millimeter away. Sorry, i'm jumping forward .

to my next next, okay.

millimeter wave sensor, which in the smart home is really fascinating, interesting technology. So it's a radar basically.

right?

Why that I so that was like, what is the making? We were so excited that that was coming out with something really cool. And then I was like an along clock. It's to me.

It's me here. Everybody have a mushroom look that is a peach.

It's so cute. I mean, smart alarm clock are pretty a pretty fun though. And we google has one that will track your left. So this one will also. So the U W.

that's the millimeter way is to see your movement.

And yes.

I know I three, but way to that giant button.

what is IT do? It's apparently is not a snooze button.

It's just bad design .

kes .

IT does colors, yes.

the snooze. Well, the idea is that the millimeter wave sensor will detect when you move. So you just wave your hand to use IT, which is also what you can do with .

that's Better than a button.

right? So wave your hand and then you will know when you've got out of bed and turn off. So do you can .

touch IT should be really hard, really hard. Yeah.

break on the top. It's that though you could definitely see this and a lot of stockings this Christmas.

There wasn't alarm clock. You should get this ban eto dict. E bartoli, talk about on the gizls that would run away from you. So so you would that would go off and I would roll off the table and roll around the room so you would have to chase IT to get IT to stop ringing. That's to alarm clock.

We're starting to see a lot more use of millimetre wave rate are for a lot of stuff include is .

that the thing they use at the airport? So that no, oh, I think that was a millimetre waves.

I don't think so. But there's a bunch of vehicles out now that have millimetre wave radars on the in the cabin of the vehicle to detect if someone is still in the vehicle. When you get out, driver gets out the vehicle and closes the door.

Ah tor to has the cna mini van just .

came out with this tech yeah because .

people will leave the children .

because and millions away. So and it's so precise that I could even detect leaping baby because from the chest rise under a blanket. Yeah, it's so.

And this is what I like. It's in a long clock. They have this amazing emotion sense in technology for an alarm clock. So like, come on, in ten day you could come .

up with with the first one to do IT, uh, starting in a two thousand and twenty twenty to say on the jazz G V seventy. And now they haven't on a bunch of their vehicles. So if you somebody behind the car or leave in leave your pet in the car, IT will send you an alert um or first when you close the door after a couple of seconds IT will it'll hock the horn till let you know hey, you'd let somebody behind after about thirty seconds, it'll send a text message to your phone um and eventually can the toyoy system will eventually give you an automated call and when I first thought demo to come to go by toyota they also had IT hooked up to to alexa so IT could send put alerts up on your fire TV in your house .

if you left .

somebody behind in the car. And this must be .

a big problem in their solving, right? This people must do this alone.

Yeah know what? What they call a hot child syndrome. There's been dozens of fatalities where the child is because when a car sitting in the sun it's like a Greenhouse ah even .

even if the ambient .

temperatures only you in the seventies test over hundred degrees inside test.

have a dog mode that the air conditions while your dogs and then IT puts up on the screen, it's OK the dog, the conditions, the dog.

That's one of things you can do now with evs, as you can use that to automatically turn the air condition if you haven't turned IT on, right?

I I do that now. I also have a smart phone and in a car, a smart lock. And I can walk up to the lock and I will unlock the door for me. Is that what samsung is doing with you, that you, W B isn't?

Well, that will be.

well, samsung doesn't happy. Yes, right?

And this is the same tech. Yes, the smart home and smart.

I love my apple cartey, yes.

and my bmw. The only .

problem is that if I parked to be in w near the brush store every time I walk, but I guess baby IT feeds me and says, you want to go, you want to go somewhere and that's let's let's go for, let's go, let's go to drive so yeah.

so what's happened what's happened here, which is really interesting, is, well, in my space, is that samsung. So apple has had home key for years now.

which is NFC tap to unlock. It's NFC not U B.

NFC tapped on lock so your phone has an NFC radio in and your door lock, your a Carrier lock, has NFC and you can tap the just, and you can do your watch too. And I will unlock the door.

I love that. That's so easy.

I love is a great yeah it's a great feature. Look, yes, because it's just local connection. So yeah, you have to be right there. You have to have and so you can have a set so that you have to put a pass code into your phone .

or bio recognition face or you .

can turn that off if you want to be quicker.

But or you can say, it's to me, model.

coming. I would love that ice voice recognition will be his sooner than you expect.

Yes, that I would kind of worry .

about because there is a facial one right now to the stand, your face. But but this, what's happened? So apples had this for a while, but you can only use IT with an iphone and you also have to have like an apple home hub in your house for IT to work for most.

Well, IT gets complicated, but you need an iphone. The android does not had any sort of similar capability, and samsung announced at its developers conference we can half ago that IT is going to be compared with a new standard called a lio, which is slike matter. But for smart dollar cks, which matter is the new .

smart home minute? Don't smart dollops ks have matter?

Yes.

but this is so we need a new standard.

So it's access control. So it's for everything. So cars, doors, your doors, your office, you could use IT for apartments like apartment buildings.

So it's A I R O.

which means access in esperanza.

You know, I had to say this, one thing I feel as missing from .

my life is more as small protocols or more .

more as I just want everything Brown.

You remember the old line about when there's fifteen standards on each of engineers get together to create one uniform .

standard was sixteen, sixteen .

standards? yes. The dc comic, yes, but this this will basically mean that galaxy smartphones next year will have the same capability, similar to home key, which is where you can tap your phone or watch to a door lock and IT will unlock.

And so this is becoming much broader because, as we said, it's been limited to home key and NFC. And a hero is creating a new standard that will involve both see blue tooth and uwb. And this is the technology that is in your bmw lio. And it's really precise local.

I love IT. It's really amazing. So and I had something that was supposed to be like IT in my my ford musing, mckee and IT was terrible. That was.

that was using blue to that.

Yes, blue.

too bad. And smart home. sorry. Blue, bad. blue. This is good for, like, a very simple.

like you .

to be. You will be taking up and you won't even have to tap IT automatically unlock your door for you as you walk.

And because directional IT will .

if if you're walking around inside your house is not going to unlock your door, it's only as you walk towards your house with your smart phone or smart watch and IT will be able to unlock your door for you automatically. Unfortunately, there are no dollops a compatible with the standard yet. But apple, amazon, sorry, apple, samsung and google are all working on a hero just in the same way.

They were all working on matter, along with all the major lot manufacturers. So like a abloy, you flag all of color book and the chip manufacturer as well. So this, this will be the future of how we.

I would love for my house to be as easy to get into as my car. I everywhere walk up to the door.

just opens up. And remember CS twenty twenty when we visited the care, the the NXP yeah is one of the companies .

that makes ubb. Yeah.

the guy we met with their film, the video, he was walking around the booth in this crowded booth and we could see exactly where he was on the screen and you're tracking him. And as he walked up to us, you could see see him on the screen.

IT has very precise, and this can be really interesting.

It's kind rather is IT like radar.

No, it's not. It's radio frequency, but it's a wide band.

It's about .

typically between five and six. Gag hurts is the like a microwave .

often is a short .

distance yeah very .

short distance.

short local. So again, in terms of security is that you have to be there and yeah have yeah so it's going to be IT will replace in in theory and it's couldn't be could go beyond phones and watches, you know any electronic where will device. So say, headphones or smart glasses.

You could eventually be the key to your house, your car, your office, any place, your gym, even. I mean, this is down and this is very much in the future once in the access control companies coming get on board. But that's that's what it's moving toward.

So it's can be quite interesting. And but the short term, samsung's axy smartphone units, users will soon have an apple home key like way of getting in of using smart dollar cks. And as you say, leo, you've used IT, and it's much it's a great experience, I think, being able to do that rather than even just getting your key out or even a pin code .

is a fingerprint and your .

print is the other option .

is all sorts of ways to do IT. But I, who's the best door luck, do you? An opinion? I do. I published .

a very extensive guide on this recently, the dollar cks smart dialogue space is very interesting. There's a lot happening with a hero and also it's one of sort of fast test Green spaces and smart home because, you know, it's a use case that everyone can kind of understand like everyone's lost their keys, everyone has been locked out of their house at some point or wants to let you know someone to feed their cat.

And you know it's a lot of access. That access control be able to control your smart front door is something that you don't necessarily need to have a whole smart home to do or to want to do. That's very useful. So yale is one of the this is a .

podcast you did recently that .

was two years ago.

Have listen to that.

See how I did get cars with about a week ago. All about smart locks. Sorry, I should have dropped that lincoln, but yale has really has some really good options.

They have all the different there are so many different ways you can get into your door, fingerprint, home key and za wave connectivity. They also have auto unlock currently, which isn't uwb uses a different technology, is not as reliable, but it's still pretty magical when IT works. And because they bought August to remember August yeah ah luck yeah so yeah in August of the same company essentially now.

And so they took that technology, that auto on lock technology so you can again and uses bluetooth, PS and wifi and an APP. So you know many potential fail points as opposed to one direct radio communication, which is what we're going to get with u db. But IT does work if you have good sell service, wifi and GPS at your home, which I don't. So IT doesn't work for me. But so yale .

has the we talking to you.

then I have good wifi in my house.

When is .

walking up to the yes, that see the smart home has not really extended outside.

That's a good point. Most of the time your wifi is enclosed yeah seems .

you get out of the house that doesn't .

go through .

the walls very yeah and I don't we don't have good sales where I am because there's a socket field and they wanted to put a cell are on and all the socket parents complained .

so not my back field. no. So is that why uwb is a good solution? Because he doesn't .

require right, right. And he doesn't require any external radios. GPS, yeah, it's just direct. So and then there's there's a lot of carrot, the caralog I really like the less expensive there, a good um sort of entry level smart lock.

but also yeah really .

interesting smart home connections. So you know that you could have if if you got me a carrot video doorbell and the video dollop as you approach your house, you could have your home, your adorable, singing like a theme song for you.

And I need a theme song that .

would .

be great, that would be least .

can have .

her own. So I have a very crazy front door, because I have a ring, elite ite door bell at a car, a lock and a ubiquity .

AI camera. yeah.

And none of i've talked to each .

other and none of them never will. I'm sorry.

it's a bad design and plus that makes theeves go. We should break in here.

This the .

verge cast podcast, you just did october first. Your front door is the key. T smart home key. Yes, being the key's word.

I must say I was, we were listening to that in the car. My life was in a car with me, and nothing that was said in their convinced her that he wanted anything to do with any smart homes.

Oh, i'm sorry. I think .

this smart, I think the smart home seems like a great idea. I always think of Stacy husband Andrew, and the trials, tribulations he goes through just to turn on a light or to raise the blinds is a nightmare.

It's not in a great space right now, but there is a .

lot of there. I have high hope. I have can set a switches. Lutrin k said, as switches everywhere, I mean, I literally have more than one hundred wifi, five devices on my network.

Yeah.

that's not good. So that's, well.

that's the problem. When you have all of those devices on one network, IT causes the problem like lag and casata that uses its own bridge, which I have those bridges.

all of .

issues with you. But yeah, the smart home is disjointed right now. But this is this is all changing with with matter and with apple. And as I think we we were going to be briefly mention, mark german had a piece I forgot about IT.

Did you read IT?

I did in the .

break said.

but it's all he's bringing IT all together .

that he says apple is very interested in .

this space very when they got rid of.

right?

yes. So got rid of the smart car. And then now moving to the smart home is basically what i've heard, like all the engineers, everyone that was working on the car, now that all the resources are going to the home, which could eventually lead back to the car, as we've discussed, right? Because IT all works together.

We should do at some point. But yes, they have home kit, which is poetry and only works on apple devices and was very limited for the types of devices you could use because they had very strict privacy and security requirements that they did loosen up over the years. But IT has meant that there are just not that many compatible April home devices.

It's now apple home. Home kit is sort of the infrastructure, but apple home is the ecosystem. They've kind of rebranded IT and they're moving toward a new hoos, which is, is what going .

on was report inteh. Yeah yeah.

That T V O S. And because that right now there isn't home OS your home pods and any devices you use in your smart home for apple are on TV OS. It's kind of at all home pod s, it's of odd. So the idea is it's all gona come together is to one new apple home Operating system, which and then they're going to release finally, hopefully, a smart display, which we've been waiting for, for a long time. And that's what he's talked about. I've written a piece about the many different i'll drop IT in the chat, the many different rumors around what they are going to come up with, including a robot rotating ARM that we'll have a screen is going to over thousand dollars and it's just two.

And I will buy four of them because I am .

a complete but what's interesting is that apple is helping push forward the smart home to be interrupted and universal for their own reasons, which is to have more devices that work with home kit with apple home. But they basically donated the infrastructure and the way that the whole home kit ecosystem true matter, and that's essentially what matter was built on with input from the other companies.

So matter is being built by apple, samsung, amazon, google, luchon, phillips, hue, signalized, like every smart home company you can think of. And companies that are not in the smart home, but they're in the home or related to the home is working on building this new smart home connectivity into a probability protocol to hopefully make IT so that any device you bring into your home will work with any other device and with any platform that you want to use. So you, leo, you'd might be able to switch over from apple home if you didn't like you anymore and switch to smart things or switch to google home.

They're just trying to make IT less of a lock in and a lot easier and hopefully work Better. Because right now, if you have three very cool devices on your front door, that all do you, really interesting things that do not talk to each other. And if they all talk to each other, eventually you you know, you could have a point where, like, ring has just come out with this video history search, where you can search for specific activities.

Like, I could search for my cat. He's, he's gone missing. Mac.

you use your ring doorbell to find your cat.

right? And if you had the point where you have that type of intelligence in your doorbell, IT could say, or look, here's amazon delivery driver and he could unlock the door for, right, a delivery driver. I have a system for that now. Amazon.

I used the amazon key feature and they're in my garage. But that's .

we're using the cloud. And this could all be local. And this is one of the great things about matter is that is all a completely local protocol.

There is the you can use the cloud. The companies can opt into using cloud for certain elements and features and things like genitive AI. You might want to be able to access more compute power.

But but it's all ultimately working locally on the edge in your home and not claud dependent, as we've seen from earlier stories in this this episode, like robots that connect to the cloud. There are some downsides to have in your house connected to the internet. T so.

but that's where apple releases that shines.

is they are very thing, yes. So and this should bring a lot more, and there already has a lot more devices work with apple home through matter. Now we seen more, more every day. And smart door rocks will be the next one with a ero.

And what .

is that cool?

This is.

oh, those are your hands .

glass like you recognized that? Yes.

once IT turned over .

and opening the windows right now. And very nice, the sunshine ing. Jennifer er panis and too I I just fan out to hei is s born to for smart.

Thank you so much for being here. Really great. I want to have you back to talk more about the home automation stuff. I think this is really interesting because really IT feels like the companies have no incentive to work together. They like being .

a simo and they want you to have to buy tower bible.

Everybody's going and nothing works with anything. Yes, good.

good. But I could think about IT with you for a long time.

I know.

So anytime.

Happy to come back. Your marvelous. Thank you, Jennifer. So glad you were here. You can read her stuff in the verge.

I bet you're glad that you don't work for wire. T are now the prime days are twice a year. Oh my god.

Our hearts and thoughts and prayers go out to all of the poor tech bloggers who had to cover the amazon prime days on the eighth and fifth. I know that's a miserable time. You can just relax now with your eighteen different animals. Enjoy and enjoy the what's left of the chicken now that you're teenagers of probably .

gone .

ripped into IT. That's right, mr. Sama sama, always a pleasure. Sam, i'm so glad you could be here with your corgis.

You can listen the same podcast that whether rings dot media. And he's also, of course, an analyst for guide housing insights. So if you're not yet a subscriber, if you want to know the latest, that's where to go. Thank you, sam.

My pleasure. Always good to hear with elio and great to meet jen. And yes, sometime chat with .

you today. Know was perfect show today because I think sometimes three people, if it's three smart, that's what we have, three smart water. And me, yeah, it's good.

It's good. And like IT works out very well. We did twit sundays two to five P M.

roughly two to five thirty six, six thirty. Eight thirty in .

Charleston yeah I am so sorry. We do IT every sunday afternoon from two pm till that's what they do at the bar right till you can that to be pacific, five pm easter and twenty one hundred UTC. You can watch us on seven different streams. Of course, our club members get special access behind the valve, a rope in our club, twit discord, lots of great stuff in the club coming up. We're going to do a coffee show on friday, Stacy book club a week from friday.

Ah the micus creative corners coming up where you can create something fun to your lego or your anything or your crushing or whatever you like to do your pottery while with my uh the club is a big way that we keep survive on the air seven box a months, add free versions of, always shows, access to the discord, access to the special events and IT really helps successful. You're not at a club member twitter that TV slash club to what we'd love to have you in the club after the fact on the main versions of the show, of course, available. But the website with that TV slash, well, it's a long you are all just going to twitch that TV and click this week in tech.

That's probably be the easiest thing to do when you're there, you will see a link to the youtube channel that is all the this week context video shows not all one thousand one because we were not always video, but a good number. You can also subscribe that we'll get IT automatically. It's nice to have IT, you know for your monday morning commute.

Just looking at your favorite podcast, climate for this week in tech and subscribe. You love what when you do that? Thanks for being here, everybody.

We made IT to one thousand one, one thousand two next week. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you, sam.

We ll see you next week on twit. Another tweet in the cat. Do you want to do right? Do you want to, baby? People are driven by the search for Better, but when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all, don't search, match with, indeed, the hiring process can be slow and overwhelming.

Simplify hiring with indeed, indeed, is your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty million global monthly visitors according to indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates, fast touch the busy work, use indeed for schedule and screening and messaging, so you can connect with candidates faster, join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve terms and conditions. Supply people are driven by the search for Better. But when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all.

Don't search. Match with, indeed. But hiring process can be slow and overwhelming. Simplify hiring with indeed, indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty million global monthly visitors according to indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates, fast touch the busy work, use indeed for schedule and screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster, join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com flash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve. Terms and conditions supply the most .

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