TWiT 1009: Andy Giveth & Bill Taketh Away - Trump's Tech Titans, Crypto Boom, TikTok's US Ban, Intel CEO Exits
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It's time for twitter this week in tech. Great show for you today. Harry mccay king is here from fast company numerous a former us. To try IT lew works now he has for some time in microsoft. He is in charge of excell copilot plus pym will talk a little bit about that's fascinating also, she's honor way to the last Taylor swifts iris concert tonight, but Christina warn is going to make an appearance, are so glad to have her lots to talk about. Silicon valley's billionaires are moving into the White house.

Is that good? I think IT might be the new NASA director is all about space exploration, twelve days of OpenAI, and now google can predict the weather Better than the best weather prediction systems in the world, plus john wang can read your bedtime story. All that more coming up next on twin. Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is to.

This is to IT this week and take episode one thousand nine, according december eight, twenty twenty four handy, give us and bill take us away. It's time for twitter this week to text to show we cover the great news of the week, the tech news of the week, with my dear friends, every one of them, a dear friend. But this is a special occasion because casina warn is here above and beyond.

Christina, first of all, I said, is that really your backdrop? SHE said, yes, that is that fake. Christina, where are you? I'm in vancouver.

british liba. I'm in canada. I am a couple hours away from going to the very final Taylor spot area tour.

Yes, the very the last one OK mah is going to add another leg.

No, no. This is IT. This is IT for this choice. This is going, this is huge. This is almost two hundred shows and and just crazy world economy .

is gona tank now that she's not bringing all of that money into the echoes.

I mean, honestly, vancouver IT was wild at the the airport when I landed. They had all kinds of stuff up in the airport um that the flight attends were getting in on IT when we're flying out this morning. The whole downtown area there stuff everywhere yeah like they know what this is doing in terms of what income is bringing, and they are all embraced in a big time.

Yeah, well, you get a nice hotel room. Do you think that this will be this will certainly be at the end of the theory and special? Yes.

yeah, I mean that otherwise I wouldn't. I, I, I thought about I I go. No, i'm going to a go with, this is done. This is down, what I was in korea two days ago. So I, so that was part of that. I was like, am I gonna able to stay awake and i'm going to able to be alive? And I was like, my mom was the one who was like, just do IT you will regret not .

going exactly. You be sitting there. sad. Yeah, so good watching on tiktok .

and i'd be very sad that I wasn't there. So we're .

going to get through this and get you there.

Thank you. Thank you.

Fourth time. So you know what you're going to see? It's not going to be a surprise.

No, no is a different setlist than when I saw at last year. But I i've seen IT you know .

online still roll her out in gender card to get her to the stages that everybody knows that.

Now, no, yeah, they all know that. But SHE comes out and like various ways.

so they have all kind of different methods because they have to, the stage is surrounded by people, so have to gather there sneakingly otherwise SHE. You know, everybody say, i'm so happy for you. We're gonna get this done fast just for you, Christina.

I'm going to get you added here and now and be the first to in the last twenty years, Harry. My crackin is also here. Always great to have Harry on fast company, and we're working to get Henry a big following on blue sky. How many people do you have on blue sky now?

Have like fifty, five hundred or something. So I i've been on IT for a while, but I didn't .

really twitter numbers. Do you think you get twitter number?

The great things about other social networks, you don't need twitter numbers to get something that a lot Better than twitter. I mean, think in terms of the people commenting on my staff and and likes and what not, I i've already surpassed present day twitter with with a fraction.

Isn't that awesome? Yes, yes. Well, we're gona get you to ten thousand tonight that we wanna do.

Everybody follow Harry macron. That comes is official handle on blue. K, Emily. O A ort dot me. So I understand what you're doing as a nice thing about the what are you, Christine.

and always will give you a plug i'm i'm film girl dot .

b sky a dot .

um that or whatever is yeah so it's grow one world because they don't do under unforced this fun girl one word um I have a bunch of domains so i'm probably going to find out mapping IT thought about doing that but i'm going to have to probably still squad on the old one um because I on lue .

guy uh I think I think you keep everything I changed I think so yes no yeah you could switch.

I I was having a crack and that be skyed at social at first.

Yeah lum reka is also hear another dear friend, long time host to this week enterprise tech and a huge Taylor or swift fan.

Now, you know, IT, I travel, I travel a foreign wide for tailor .

with he's like he's in the bus following the ban prince engineering manager for, hey, this is good excel copilot. You're on the hot seat these days. That's awesome. We are so you're you were excel, but you've now kind of specialized in the AI portion. Yes.

I was on the office platform group S, A group like doing all of the programme interfaces with an office. And then we kind of rolled into exile copilot for excel and python. So we ask my team focuses on the python side of things. Nice, nice fun, really cool fun. yeah. Uh.

I have lots of questions, but will actually one question we're gona flat two weeks ago Steve gibson on security now followed along with a lot of blogs riling as microsoft because IT seemed that they were gonna art using your personal uh content uh to train their L L ams I talk to point through out and Rachel camel mediately and show the next day and they said, don't no, no, it's always said this is document. We're not training our lives on IT. But the following week, this past week, microsoft lair made very clear and we now have never and will not use your personal content to trainer s they wouldn't want to they want .

didn't want my person. Look, get your organizations contact right. I think thing .

you would kill business right right?

Yeah think we focus a lot on synthetic data. Um we we generate so that tic data that actually is release to the to the things that we're trying to do for inference and and IT actually lows us to to really find these things to to whatever we want. So we don't need people's data there.

Year ago, yeah Steve backed IT down, which I was glad because yeah, I know I think that's been pretty clear, by the way, Christina, thank you. I got my get up universe name badge. Yes, is a primer oni.

yeah. I just three years in a row now. Thank you. Yes, yes.

when we love you, we love you. And if anybody else wants to buy those, we've actually for the first time ever put this up on to get hub shop dot com. And so we still have some. So you can go to to get have shop dot com if you wanted get your own hack able badge.

It's a processor, by the way, I love the secret board, but it's a processor. So you can plug into IT and modify IT change IT is that switches.

It's a pie oni. So you can exactly you you you can you can plug know a screen battery um a whole thing. So um you know by default we have the that L D screen.

But if you wanted to put in like a color screen or something, you have to do that. You connected to a battery if you want to people to change things on the fly. So it's it's precor.

yeah. Maybe I put teches， uh.

we could do on IT people, people have put to do on IT.

Actually that's great. And you supposed to wear that get up universe.

Or you use IT in the other conference you want to go to, I mean, you know, obvious, make IT anything you want.

The first one I got had my twitter handle and count on and I don't think this one is oh, IT does and has a twitter twitter well, i'm at the all the port everywhere. So okay, that's that at work. It's not it's it's diagnostic. Uh, all right. So I guess we should talk about the news i've been putting IT off ah you know this election ended up being very interesting. Ah turns out elon mask now with the F A C you know information has come out, donated a quarter of a billion dollars, were very nearly a quarter of billion dollars to a president trumps campaign and he got a good payout for I think he got his mony's worth because he is very much part of the transition team in a time story.

Uh I think a couple of days ago actually says is not just elon, but it's elon's buddies and they are not just you know doing those the department of governmental efficiency they are in on the interviews um right at the beginning elon mask and Larry ellison of oracle where house guests went to the trans, the first transition meeting I brought the two richest people in the world today, trump told his advisers, what did you bring? A miss his mom, may musk, has actually been in apparently on some of the meetings. So elan brought his mom, uh, he also brought a whole bunch of people, including this a jay birchall.

He's the head of ella musk family office. He's been interviewing candidates for the job for jobs at the state department even though that's not is a daily week. Um F T C F C C mark and rison is there of of course, the guy who invented netscape navigator when he was a student at um you know which my all in one oy and the N C S A in no one oy and he lets see who else from a wire ah who is a caltech p in physics and investors so koyo capital, he's been interviewing candidates for defense department jobs.

David, sex, well, and that's the big story. David sex, who spoke at the republican convention, uh, is the host. The all in podcast is now the White house.

A I and crypto s are despite the fact that he actually he as activity is he's a part of the big film mafia. He doesn't really have any active participation in the AI company, ora crypto company. I guess that's good. I guess that we know that .

we know all of this .

has done one thing for sure that we can see, which is propelled bitcoin well over one hundred thousand dollars a coin. This is good for cypher dogies up, everything's up. Mean, coins are up hot to a coin is up.

Not 打完。

No, not 打完。 I went up and then down, but that's another story. Um you think of joking, there actually is a howk coin. No.

I know I know when I, yes, they dumped ninety .

percent and and SHE hai, well, show is the hot to a woman. A is getting a little controversy because SHE SHE says I didn't have any. I didn't do IT, I didn't do IT not did my team do IT.

But somebody did, was pumped up, watched in december, force at ten P. M, quickly rose to a market cap of get this four hundred ninety million dollars, then went down ninety one percent in three hours. Kind of a classic pumped dub, I would guess. But who did that? We don't know, because it's egypt of currency.

Get ready.

break. Yeah this is her hat. Conomo s slide deck is short and sweet. Um so SHE apparently didn't make any money on IT, which just shows you know she's not, she's not I don't know what this shows.

People did snipe IT though so .

there somebody didn't make some money. You million of say .

somebody made money SHE didn't. Then he was a victim as well as being used to for people into the scheme. No, she's not. To be clear, she's not. Except no, no but but I if what he says is true and knows no, he could have actually cashed out. Then in some ways that almost like, okay, they party really done people who are not even going to be part of the rug pull that they are putting their reputation um up to to you know screw over on reputation .

of the heart. Let's talk about a real coin, bit coin, or you can talk about a all the others have gaines and and all the other stable coin. Ts, but let's start with the coin. Would you buy IT today?

My my investment and bitcoin and thorium is finally up. Um maybe two years ago, I spent eighty dollars and crypto to currency. I got those and um a couple of other ones, which you're still down.

But my eighty dollars is finally up. After two after two years i've been weighed down. So i'm i'm rolling and down mainly from bitter or B A hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah, congratulations. I have seven point eight five bit going. I cannot access.

H no.

we don't like talk this. I but I don't .

think I not buy a lot of bit going personally. But it's IT okay so it's gamblin.

Yeah okay. So the conventional ism m is certainly, we've been saying for last few years, is because it's not tied any real value. It's not something gold, it's not even silver.

It's definitely not a company. It's just speculative that when you buy IT, it's purely specular. There's nothing. It's whether people think it's worth whatever it's worth, which means is risky because I can tell that .

it's pretty much I how to stake some scheinin and terminals investing. And that's not a blanket state. The idea of crypto currency, which I certain ly don't dismiss out of hand in general, but like that as an investment vehicle if you have enough money that you don't care all that much where there goes up, upper down maybe. But well.

yeah I mean, on the other thing I could see being bullish, ed, right now cyp to given what's happening in the in the new administration.

that is true. Um yeah, we may be in for four years of crypto currency being looked on with a lot more positive vibes and IT has over, over the past four for sure. My advice .

would be if you do by get out of IT by january twenty, twenty, twenty nine .

for he for right .

because what the things now i've seen good point advocates says, oh, IT, by the way, as many companies have done, including venezuela, always A A parag on for us here in the united states, uh, you should eliminate capital gains taxes on bitcoin profits, just don't tax them, just let them all roll in ah and I feel like that's the kind of thing we're talking about here. This is this is in a way the or IT almost feels like the scammers are now in charge of the country. I mean.

reminds me of the night is when a lot of people said essentially that the internet should not be text now, which certainly did not last for forever as an idea.

right? That made a little more sense because you have a nicer technology you wanted to grow. You want to amazon companies like IT to do well and and and then eventually you can tax IT as they did, you know, sales tax and so forth. Um this this so do why do we why do we want be going to grow unless we're .

holding IT unless unless of a skeptic here um I actually yeah I mean, I I I actually like the competition for banks because I am i'm not a big bank person and like having them have some level competition that goes around this type of thing. You there's there's actually data that shows like potential industries could drop because of IT.

Um there's um know there's a Better efficiency when IT comes to actually uh ecliptic or currency, which would hope force kind of banks like chaste and some other banks to be more efficient. So and I am hoping that this will somewhat push them in that specific direction. I'm sure there will be some negatives um like there's a able latin ity and impact on other you know smaller banks that are out there, you know. So but I I do feel like there's going to be something I I feel like it's going to definitely push in some direction and hoping somewhat positive.

I you know I am if you're an optimist, I think that would be good time to say, you know, maybe this is all going to work out. The governments are going to get much more efficient, right? That uh, bit point is gonna end up maybe the U S.

Will create a digital coin itself, a stable coin. Uh, that would then kind of I don't know I I don't understand that and I just enough to know what the impact of that would be. Anybody that's me that's with you looks looks like we might end up with the .

crypto currency reserve and that I don't understand the applications of that president .

service is very happy about his crypto currency reserve, right? You're happy until IT collapses.

right? It's like.

IT reminds me a lot of vegas, you know, those beautiful big buildings, but then they always put up a billboard of a few guy one a million dollars at the slots. What they don't show you is the nine hundred ninety nine thousand people who lost money to pay for.

right? Or how much did did they cost that that person to win?

Talk about that.

Yeah but having so that like I mean, i'm i'm kind of with with luu here, i'm certainly not bullish and I certainly thinking if you don't have money to lose and you shouldn't investment in any of these things. But just being completely candid, I don't think that it's a bad idea to talk with whoever handles your investments or you do IT yourself to look at diversifying in decypher .

if you're looking for the next. I just don't like something I agree. You know, i'm done. I mean, there's a lot of IT, quite billionaire lot of them, a lot of that money went into the campaign in twenty twenty four.

Uh, so i'm obviously dumb, but I don't want to buy an asset that I don't understand why the asset is valued. What is valued at that is just a random. It's to me .

it's buying .

a lottery .

ticket.

Put all the is .

at this point because just my my own like similar to to Henry um I I put two thousand dollars in a um Robin hood account a few years ago and a lot of that was indoors when dose was cheap. And then um I didn't sell the doge when I was at a really good Price because my nephew has just been born and I want to like I want to being underwater on the investment for the Better part of three years.

IT is now i've happened in eighty five percent return, so i've i've made you know money so to speak, and its its small amount IT doesn't matter. But you know IT IT is one of those things that for me I was like, okay, I put this money in just for fun gambling genuinely um I now with enough time is passed because of the changes that have happened for various reasons. I have a good return, but I I certainly wouldn't save my retirement or anything important on IT.

My wife will, every time I go to vegas or reno, SHE has twenty books. She's going to play the slots to what's gone. She's twice now, one, six hundred and nine hundred thousand.

So she's way up, right? And now any, you know, the temptation is that for me to say, wow, I gotto get this. This is great, you making a man out of this. But we know what the reality is. There's also, and I worry about bitcoin in beak, and maybe I addresses to you because you you're more boon IT.

But I worry that what what bitcoin has done is enable to somewhere yes ah in all sorts of crime because IT is close as close to untractable almost as close to untraced as cash and it's a lot hard to transfer a million dollars cash from your headquarters in Virginia beach to you know hungry but uh, IT also costs a lot in terms of energy use. There are gas fees. You know, even though hawk two maybe had invested in her own or there was an in doing insider trading, SHE made lots of money on the fees, right? because.

There's fees. And so all of these things in the speed with which a transaction happens is unpredictable. It's slow unless you pay more to the minor to validate IT even though now they've got proof work.

So it's not as bad as I was. Uh, I think the whole thing has lots of negatives that people don't even know about or don't consider there. Most of you saying, but I could make so much money, I feel like we're promoting a technology that is not an ideal technology.

Not understood yet too. I mean, there's that's that's you're call on all the negatives and this makes sense because I don't the hot to a thing just mean that's right because it's a perfect ample a fect example of like you know just like you know other companies coming up with new a eye ways of doing something stupid, right? Like I think this is another example of no allowing somebody to go and free through encysted or currency, you know and and of course you know so I think this is this is that a bad thing about IT, right? I mean, there's gotta be some level of correction that needs to happen.

And so maybe that's why government should get involved.

And some other stuff is solvable or partially solvable, all like like the system about sustainability aspect. Um there's already been some progress with some gypt to current says, and there's a lot more that can be done and there start up working on at since the original way that the stuff is verified was incredibly energy efficient. But that's that's just not like I give them for this .

little idea. Well, we'll find out because of the anti well, many considered anti crypto currency a chairman of the fed um i'm sorry of the S C C, gary gancy lor will be replaced now by a guy name paul adkins and he is, as far as we can tell, pretty pro crypto o currency right? And so while gangster or has been kind of saying and I kind of agreed with them, crypt of a currency should be regulated as securities uh but the cypher community does not wanted to be seen as a security ah and I think that are going to get their way with this new guy, paul accs um the voci president buckling of elsevier has now got a crypto treasury of six hundred million dollars from his initial investment in bitcoin.

Um trump wants to do the same thing he says he has said in the campaign, Riley said he wants to make the U. S. The cyp du capital of the planet and create a similar strategic reserve of bitcoin.

Course, if you hold a bitcoin, all of that is great news. That means your assets will go up, but is a great policy. I think the people who are looking at this aren't considering that they're just saying, well, I don't care because I make my I make .

a min is i'll get mine. I don't understand, I don't understand even if if you're bullish on this, I don't understand I mean, I other than the great aspect, I don't understand why this would not be a security. That's that's the thing that i've never used to be.

I understood that you have capital gains taxes on IT. Actually.

we are talking about a guy. He went bank wrapped run in casinos. So I I want to put too much stock in his take the software yeah well.

now so what's really interesting to me is IT IT really looks as if, and I like to know what you think president like trump has handed over the transition to silicon valley, to the silicon of valley of billionaires. They have moved in the moral logo. They're doing the interviews.

They're elon is sitting in the phone calls with the olan ski and others. You know, there was a conspiracy theory before the election that trumpton really want to govern. He liked being president and and he like the benefits of IT, including putting all sight of his convictions, which is apparently has, but he didn't really want to run anything that's too much work.

So he was very glad to have people like you on come in and do IT. And that was the conspiracy theory. The Peter teal and ella mask were funding trump because they knew that he would take a back seat, he would enjoy the trappings of power without actually having to worry about IT.

Jd vans, who was a till a proto j would be the vice president. He'd be sitting there with muskie and and all of these people running the country. A kind of looks like maybe that wasn't a conspiracy theory or at least that's what happened.

So then go, is that a bad thing? Maybe these guys, I mean, they're all great businesses, right? They not want companies, uh, they know how to launch rockets. They know how to so maybe they should be running the country.

I'm not even sure that was ever a conspiracy theory that seemed kind of manifestly obvious. The getta. I mean, yeah I mean, well, I mean, certain that you can make a strong case that a business background is is not inherently a great background for reading a government.

But well, i'm worried because a lot of these guys have have bigger es because they're stumbled in the money. I don't know you know a lot of them, uh, our billionaire, just because they are in the right place at the right time, but they think they're genius and there's a certain arrogance st that comes that that worries me a little bit to to to J, F, K, bringing the harvey at the best in the british or braham link's a team of rivals bringing in the best minds to help run the country. And maybe that's what's gonna happen.

I mean, they are. I mean, yes, they are, but so is via everybody else.

You be present a little, I mean.

trying to be off a mistake. I would hope that maybe there is the potential for them by sitting in on these means to soaked up some knowledge they don't already have and that they have enough of a humble side to realize that they are not expert, some foreign policy or all these other things outside of their real house there in .

there for the interviews, maybe just to make sure that the person is a competent, smart, and then somebody else going to do the other part of the interview at something we don't know.

It's also not clear how long this will last because history, truth, trump doesn't get along well forever with other people who are as as needy as elan musk is. And this .

attention.

right?

Second .

brain in love .

with kim john as well. And he seems to like put in quite a bit.

And there are all these other constituencies like the project, twenty, twenty five people who are also join for power, along with the sick.

about a lot of, and I bet this happens in every transition. All of the different constituencies say, hey, that where we have a seat now we want that.

This is our agenda and it's up the president and staff to kind of keep them out of the you know get control IT right um and so we and because we're not sitting in the room, we don't know what's going on and we will find that one we will know is because as David sax was now whatever this means, A I and crypto s are that is a new title. Don't has no progressionist wer has no more power than any other I get executive branch. Zr is not a fan of OpenAI. And if you want to recuse yourself .

on this one, U K.

I I was i'm going to have for microsoft. You forgot. I have to microsoft yourself if you wish.

But David zx has said on the all in podcast that OpenAI is a payano uh the uh the a for profit perona and IT could be bad news if sex is I think again, I don't know what powers he's going to have but if V C, A I are we know that he likes in on musk and his x ai, but he doesn't like sam altman in his OpenAI will we know that would be maybe a limit test of what happens to happen? What do you think here? It's just you and me on this.

Well, and any elon mask, despite being a co founder of OpenAI, is also not a fan. What's to become of that? So I mean, there the cynical expectation is that they will knowingly use the power they have to, to make life tough for sam altman, right? Others also, the possibility they won, do IT on propose.

But I will color there. What they do released cynical perspectives that they go out of their way, not to left their own person. L interests affect things.

which no all that there's a possibility .

that will happen. Um i'm not entirely sure what they would do right now to make life tough for for OpenAI through the power they have, but it's certainly possible and can so I can certainly see that the fact they have trumps air leading to trump not being A F ana OpenAI and that having implications alright.

I I feel bad I don't want to talk too much about this sense, both Christina and well.

do I add one perspective of and this is necessarily in the with the story but I think the the case of him suing the opening, you know, I think I go I go back to the stories that come out around elan kind of handing over all of his patterns to be mw, and saying, okay, I rather another company build a Better electric car than me. Then the world kind of benefits from IT. I think he kind of goes back to that theme.

Any time he talks about any type of technology, he's really pissed off that open a eye is doing this closed door for profit model. And I think he'll continue to do that. You know, if he can afford to go and fight to fight, he's going to fight to fight.

And I think that's the interesting part about this to see where they go because, again, opening is on top. Uh, you know, these are companies that are people like anthropic and other companies are striving for what achieving. And I think it's it's it's a hard, it's a hard. It's a hard thing to follow. And even X I mean, x is using existing miles or other, I hope the open source community .

really exciting eds here mean or uh .

any any of them like there's there's like there's you going to deep seek that kind. There's lots of open source models that are there there are there in some cases actually doing Better than then, right? Some of the opening I miles.

So yeah, well, what certainly competition of many flowers bloom is IT obviously best for everybody, including copilot and get up copilot because um yeah see that one thing that maybe very good is his pick for uh NASA um but again, this is going to be interesting.

He picked jered, I ig man whose name you may remember now he, he made his money as the city of a payment process and comedy shift 4 payments。 But he has sponsored a couple of space x missions. Remember the drag mission where he wrote with three.

Into space. And then he did the first private und first ever privately funded spacewalk last september. So this guy is a man who loves space.

He has close ties with spaces immediately. But he is, he is the the president lex pic for running NASA. Uh I presume as to be uh, confirmed. But I would imagine of all of the nominee so far, he would be the quickest to confirmation. He says the envisions a thriving space economy invoice usher in an era where humanity becomes a true space faring civilization.

I believe IT because of his background um garrett rice man is a retired NASA astronaut advisors basics says that ice when is definitely going to push asa, but he'll do IT in a positive way, elan musk said he's a man of high ability and integrity. This might be a great choice. NASA has been hand strong by the fact that congress gives IT money, but uses IT really for pork. Paris, so the the the space launch system, a rocket, the sls, which has been a massive failure and twenty four, twenty four billion years, was massively over budget. Part of the problem is that it's made all the every different state in the union practically it's piece made so that every member of congress could get their little pork bail in and that is not the way to run a space agency uh, so maybe that maybe this will .

be good for an asa, be a fixable.

you know, there the S L is a is a real problem. Now remember though, this guys close ties to space x and and this is, you know, his the norm. And government is, you kind of accuse yourself, you step back from your investments, you, you, you step back from your ties and you act on behalf of the people, not any individual, company or person.

I don't I I don't know if ice expand will would do that. I don't know. We'll have to watch again.

And that I mean, there's a overarching question of the fact that elon mask controls space sex and is now involved in all these other aspects of the government and american life in general and global politics and all the mother whose interest is he going to serve when know is all this stuff is likely to know as as a trump comfort that you know is he going to leverage that his own .

private is yeah right? That is current ministry to bill now, son, this is quoted by reuters, said he thinks the relationship between elon mosque, the president elect is going to be a benefit to make you sure that funding for NASA is there. So I see that as a positive.

Seems like I could.

I guess, if really your chief and only interest is we gotta get the space. This is the right way to do IT right. Get IT, you know, get the what we've shown is that commercial space is more effective. I would love have to .

get space that stock now .

right yet well, to the moon, literally. So I guess really the we're just going have to wait and see there's there. My temptation is to say all this is a disaster, but maybe it's not a disaster.

Maybe these guys are smart. Maybe we're gone to get Better people in there. Maybe government will be more efficient. Maybe they won't cut my social security.

All these guys have a big interest. And sorry to for calling them guys, I guess the one to be been talking about our guys, but they all have a huge interest in business deregulation, which um in some cases could be great. There are also a lots of of instances where I could be a major problem, but I I ever expect that what motivates a lot of people on the private sector to get involved here, and they will pushed trump to make this happen.

And that is natural inclination anyway, is the regulation. This is what amErica voted for, Frankly, what the spring courts been pushing. I mean, this is head there, this where we're going.

I I think I think ultimately um the real thing to seek is what we saw eight years ago obviously was different in terms of the type of people who were brought in. Um although you did have some international vate sector folks to who he put them in in his cabinet too. I and so those actually did Better than some of the washington types.

But you know um I think even if we take the most positive view about this is is just kind of the uncertainty is kind of what he mentioned before, which is kind of the preciousness of the you know president elect, right and um how well everyone's went to continue to get along and and I think that stuff really the thing that is the big waiting game. It's like, okay, these are the people who are in place now. Is this going to be a repeat of what we saw eight years ago where you have administration would roll over, administration roll over? Or is this going to be consistent .

because you have many .

exactly this going .

to take kind of right?

I mean, you know could be because in some cases you're like, okay, some of these appointments makes sense and they could be good things um and you maybe these are smart people who could potentially you know um and act some positive changes, who knows but IT could also be over nothing if you know people last a few months and that that to me is the big I know we just don't know how long and if this is going to last before we can even assessed whether this is to be good about.

All right, i'm going to take a break because I promise you to get you out of here fast. And I know you are in one year you're listening to tailor .

swift music as i'm not not pug in .

right now. I love you ristal. This is such a sacrifice. SHE flies in from south korea, is going to a concert tonight, but makes time for us, and I am so grateful. thank. And of course, loue has twenty three children, so he is also.

he is also five boys.

Yes, five voices like twenty three .

year sometimes.

Look, I love having you here, a former host this weekend in a Price text. Very smart guy. Great to have you on the course the technologies of himself hearing the crack and from fast company or show that they brought to you by a tool everyone should have in their business.

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Everybody, everybody should have one. If you got permited offences, that's fine. But what happens when somebody gets through those? That's what really matters. All right. A back to the show we go let's talk about tiktok.

The they talked clock is ticking a cats, right? A court has ruled that that law that says the vest or shut down in the united states is legal is valid. And now it's coming down to january nineteenth, the day before inauguration.

对， it's for real this time, new york time says tiktok creators flooding the social network with videos on friday after judges upheld that law. You have you must have A A tiktok. You you even said that you knew that if you didn't go to the tailor swift concert, Christina, that you'd see IT on tiktok yes.

yes um I don't post to want to talk much but yes, I have a tiktok and I consume a lot of tiktok uh and i've also been on record as as being very uncomfortable with this legislation, this new law um whatever concerns privacy concerns you have about people have about tiktok and are not saying they're in valid um I think the same privacy concerns Frankly exist for all of our social networks and if we really want to dress those things, we address them in terms of of data protection, sharing and what not.

Um I I I don't like the way this was car deal. I don't like specificity um in which this law targeted one specific company uh for what I I think are are pretty growth reasons. I felt that way in twenty nineteen um under the you know uh travel administration. I felt that way you know under the the by administration and it's this is going to be interesting in tiktok authority said they're to peal this at the supreme court um and and i'll see if you they can make any sort of decision before january in nineteen ninety um or zero B I stay in in in leive of hearing that assuming the supreme court wants .

to hear this case this is the U. S. Court of appeals for the district of columbia uh, denying its petition to overturn the law uh so all they can do now is say, yeah we're taking IT to the highest court and lemon then it's up to the supreme court to give them certain and this all has to happen before january in nineteenth right? Um yeah, I wonder.

Look, I have mentioned this before. I have a little bit of a dog in this. My son became a tiktok star a year ago. Tiktok gave him his business for work for tiktok. Nobody would have ever heard a sault hank, but he became yet two hundred million fours.

And tiktok has done the same on instagram, had a best selling, has a best selling cookbooks and stores right now, all because a tiktok. In fact, he's opening his first restaurant in new york city, uh, in the spring or in the early summer, uh, again, all because of tiktok. And the key was taken open.

Edo once said, this are a producer who's on location, by the way, I hope he's having a good time in the Philippines, uh, entity use and filling in for him today, beno said. You know, if you're going to start something these days, you Better started somewhere where you can go viral, whether it's a podcast videos, what book offer news's letter because there's so much content unless you're on a platform that can promote you virally, you don't have a hope, a chance, right? Is that true?

Yeah yeah. The tiktok has an amazing generator, al reach. Its its forcing cultural trend.

It's forcing creativity, innovation. So I think it's it's got a lot of positives. I think it's it's interesting that it's they're focusing on the negative here.

Um you know I mean, people would say, oh, well, well, your son could just have done the same thing on instead with real, which is, I guess true uh but then that rates the issue is that the real reason that we're shutting down tiktok because we want to mark zaka bergs, he's is A U S.

Company after all, right, which is my issue with that, Frankly, right that is what what is the robe and we are told you know very nebulous without any specific ity you know, national security concerns. We're given no proof. We're not, you know told that anything beyond just oh what we think this is bad.

Meanwhile, technologists, you actually look at this and and op, honest. There are are many, many, many thousands, thousands of thousands of americans who work at tiktok, work at by dance um you know who are are saying this is not how this works. This is not export trading your data or not you know selling things to china. Um i'll also point out your data already been sold to china and other countries and your internet sort of provider is doing this and that's fully .

illegal and data brokers yeah correct correct.

This is already happening. So if this is what we're against, i'm in full agreement, let's pass that legislation. I don't like how this has been targeted against one company in what yes doesn't like.

IT was very clear in twenty nine, which granted I know was a different situation in this current law. But in twenty nineteen, the first, you know a movement of they have to divest or you be sold to A U. S.

Company thing. That was a very clear. We don't like that.

Another company is is making money in, in these platforms and is building momentum. And we don't like that. We don't have a piece of the pie.

That was what even worse if I had been maybe A I don't know, a skin avian company like spottier y .

maybe we wouldn't .

worry about IT.

won't people? I the thing that does concern me, and I think there is some evidence for that, is that um stuff that the chinese government would prefer you not think about does appear to be harder to find tiktok um that is concerning to me, is not the only thing that concerns me. I am also concerned about the fact that twitter .

stuff that think that .

I was to say, I was to say, can we make? Can we make? You're not wrong about that here, but can we make can we be upset and be waving our hands about how fit is that certain content is um being you know like a suppressed on one platform when we mention that about other platforms and the responses, what the platform choice about what to do. Now again, if we want to have you know of laws out there about how those decisions are shown to people so that they are aware that things are being suppressed or that they are aware that there is a point of view that i'm fine with that like I know, but I just don't see the the difference between what you know facebooks what are youtube um you know anything else that is not just purely to determined by by Chloe ical feed anybody that doesn't allow the make the determination. I don't understand with the real differences other than this is the chinese government insensibly versus this .

is know if you waive and say you should only be able to access the social network that is created in your country by people in your country, whatever your country is, china, benezra, the united states, mexico, canada. If you're canadian, you have to use a canadian social network. What if we did that? Then you wouldn't have to worry about influence campaigns.

You wouldn't have to worry, right? Or maybe not. Actually, no, twitter is the united states. And there is plenty of influence campaigns going on from russia and china. But let's say you did that.

Is that a good thing? No, because the social network is about a global right community. Then the good thing about IT.

I have to say I feel a little little bit less less than maybe you folks do about A A social network under the influence of the chinese government. Not been something to have concerns about that sad. As far as I know, there's not a lot of evidence that they are mining people's data or are doing stuff that that harm folder individual users. But I don't think the concern about IT is unreasonable. And and I don't know I I don't think sweden and in china should should be considered in exactly the same way.

So um that's fair. Yeah yeah. I know. I don't want to diminish your concerns because that's that's true. This is what the court said.

I feel like I don't know enough about this. Do not to say yes. I think this is a great idea to pull away from the current owner. I acknowledge the fact that I don't understand .

everything about IT, the U. S. Dc, which presumably may have seen more than than we see as private citizens. Uh, tiktok argued the law unfair. This is from the new york times, unfairly singled out the company a ban would infringe on the free speed rates of american users.

The judges said the law was, quote, carefully crafted to deal with only control by a foreign adversary, and quote, IT did not run a foul of the first amendment. The ruling acknowledge americans would, quote, lose access to an outlet for expression, a source of community and even a means of income and quote, but that congress had weighed those risks against national security concerns. And that's I guess that's really what you're saying, Harry, is if given all the evidence, the national security concern is genuine, that out ways all the other things, especially they're all alternatives to tiktok like youtube shorts and and face is not real.

I'm not going that far because i'm not sure whether it's really been through the nature security concern.

We don't know because they won't tell us they are only exact .

congress and exactly like I mean, I think being concerned about that is legitimate. This action i'm not saying I support because IT IT is pretty fuzzy. And I I think that would be a shame if if tiktok goes away versus you can take away on or or somebody else taking IT over in a way that some not too big of blood for all the people who love IT.

The thing that bothers me about this and and and I said this months ago, so I member repeating myself of people tell me, say this before I apologize, is that I I agree that we shouldn't just dismiss the security concerns. And if they are, if there is real evidence there that we haven't seen in that for whatever reason they haven't shown us michela, I I I will take that on. However, their husband, a process estoril ally, there is a uh uh process in the united states, uh government in the city. S in its C F I U S, as I believe the .

crony yeah the committee for investment in uh the united states, for foreign investment.

foreign in the united states. And that has before forced companies to either um you know d couple from owners. There is a process that tiktok has been basically in that process for years under to administrations. IT has not moved forward, presumably because the evidence you know shown hasn't gone anywhere.

This is to me, this isn't a situation like like Z T E or or wallet, where I think there are very real concerns and very real evidence, especially by Z T E, which is why that equipment is not allowed in the united states or many other countries. Same with walks, always equipment where you should say yes uh a ban is absolutely um you know uh correct here. And there are real national security concerns and the companies have done things that are are hiding what they're doing.

But again, the cvs process, which has forced you know, foreign governments, this is an own process, has been going on. I think at this point, I think it's five years and. I just i'm bothered by the fact that we are now potentially losing access to something for reasons that even if even if for talking about the best case ario, I don't have any confidence that the best the case like basically the government know has said, like the congress said, trust me and I just going to be honest me Christinia Warren, individual citizens, I don't trust you and that's .

a big problem, by the way, in in our polite in general is that we've double side. We do no longer trust politicians of any strike.

Donal trappers manage to take both sides of this issue.

So was he was the precipitated all of this in his last administration. And now we, like he said.

I I won't again. But then mr, but then of course, the deadline is is the day before migration day. So who knows?

Almost.

opportunities almost had tiktok a wholly on subsidy.

Ara of oracle? yes. yeah. Well, oracle is a project. Texas, which was tiktok kind of attempt to appease congress, was in fact to store all the data in texas and oracle servers and see.

But IT was pretty clear that the chinese government could get to access that. And that's really the problem is that any any company run out of mainland china is partially owned by the chinese government. They manage that.

And there's nothing for them to defend themselves against in chinese government decision. So I mean, not that that's so different in the us. China could see the same thing about all of our U.

S. Social media, probably that that does. They block facebook of the day. They block ex.

They block all others. Used to, I used to at a PC world magazine with a chinese edition, which was literally a joint venture with the government in which literally had an onsite sensor.

Yes, there you go. right? One of bigger differences .

about the the social networks like tick tock to is the interesting thing. Is that different than some these other like wiley and so on is obviously you give them your data, data that stored somewhere and probably in the region that you're in, you don't know what happens behind the scenes. They can go and take that an extra trade and send IT over, right? I mean, with these hard word vendors, they are tract and by complaints officers and they know does no kind of like service that the data going to.

And but they could, but presumably a Willy switch could be modified. The firm work could be modified by the chinese govern right to something x field trade, everything that happens on that switch that but that's that's .

easier to detect, right? I mean, that's easy network second text, right, but with social network, know how is that?

What have no evidence, right? We don't know. That's really the truth that I congress is.

We don't know in order.

Do we know if there have been influenced? Amigas is interesting. On friday, the european union n cent tiktok, a request for more information that because romanian intelligence file suggested that moscow had coordinated influencers on tiktok to promote an election candidate who suddenly became the front runner, the far right populist canon judge cue came out of nowhere in the election.

Uh, the court, the top court spin court of of romania overturned and all results from the first round of voting because of that. And now romania authorities think that russia used telegram to recruit thousands of tiktok users to promote Georgescu. Now whether that happened or not, they've investigating IT. Um but that just shows that's not china no just in that what any social this could happen on right.

was was going to say, I mean and I think that and I understand that the you know um that is report rejected the first man appeal and and maybe IT was because of the the narrow ness of of how the argument was presented. I am a lawyer, I I don't know how that works, but I do feel like there is something to be said, which is people are voluntarily giving their their information you to these services, facebook and you're .

an involuntary giving your information to data brokers who are gladly selling to china and there's no lague and crease.

So stunningly.

the ftc is considering it's not even illegal. They're considering limiting the ability of data brokers to sell your social security number. Currently, they're allowed to do that.

It's not illegal. So data this we found this out the national public data breach where my social security number was in IT. A lot of a million was that three hundred million people.

Social security number was in that, which we don't know the actual number because implication. But there was a lot and those guys were selling that, in fact, to not only china, but to the united state's own intelligence agencies and law enforcement. And that's the real reason there's no law against you because law enforcement will never let that happen.

They need IT. They use IT. They don't have to spy us illegally. They just let her eyes peace, do IT legally, and then they buy IT.

If you could go back in time, I mean social security number, you should never have been never anything but a number that has known by you and the government so many an apartment.

You have to give me your social security number. Who knows what that apartment rental agencies doing with IT? You know, forget IT and IT says on the card not to be used identification doesn't matter. Alright, but that's when now we're beat at that horse alright uh, I don't know. We'll happen to tiktok. Um there is a guy in Frank mccourt, not the author of the fabulous book's Angeles ashes and is that's a different Frank of court Frank the court is a billionaire who has something called project liberty and he's try he's trying to put together consortium of investors to make what he calls a people's bid for tiktok OK this might be I don't know. Project liberty includes a four profit company and nonprofit institute things like OpenAI I was found at to build help build an advocate for a safer and more equitable internet um he says we've got informal commitments of more than twenty billion dollars uh and that they are going to they're going to an investor road show early next week in york city and sances scot case, you want to put some of your money in tierna lee supports IT David Clark, M I, T. Computer science and A I labs senior research scientists supported I don't know, I don't know if this, I don't know who project liberty is or Frank the court, Frankly.

but I mean, he's given he has a lot of thought to this. One of the big I answered questions is what happens if you have a tiktok in the us. That's not based on the original um there might be a way less china has .

said we will not that is not for sale. You cannot get our algorithm that might be .

way less compelling. You can argue that, that would be either a good thing or a bad thing or maybe somewhere in the middle.

you also there's nothing magic in .

the algorithm mean. He does say that he's thought about this as some sort of strategy where you going to have tiktok in the in the U. S. Which outcome in he's very big on the notion that the social networks we have are unhealthy and he's partially motivated by one into have control over a large social network um that is healthier and says he has a strategy for making tiktok compelling and interesting in fun but also not not a dict of and and not dependent on on the algorithm ready has according to axiom.

a court says the technology were building respect individuals by returning to their ownership, control of their identity and their data. That's important. I don't know how he's going to do that, but anyway but by survey and not by surveilling them, this is possible because we're not influenced foreign actors, we're not beholding the big tech, and we built the necessary technology that can support this powerful platform. Love by more than one hundred and seventy million americans. Maybe he's the White night that's gone to save this .

whole thing thing to be questioned. You would buy, dance, want to sell, right? Because it's one thing to have a consortium. M, assuming you can get the money together, assuming you can help everyone ready.

Yes, twenty billion seems low, to be honest.

IT does IT seems extremely low and and so but lets assume that that's not an issue and the money can come together, can you but does china want to a sell? Because you know if if not just the flip perspectives, if the chinese government said to us that um you know uh basically uh facebook might have to be sold um in in order to Operate um on in in in china and to be able to you know ue to work there.

I love as soon they had a relationship or google um you know or or micros companies that do have brand their joint mentors but have things that they had to be sold and couldn't have any of their current investment from the united states. I I think that both the U. S.

Government and those companies would would individually say, screw you, we don't need to be in your in your country, right? So that's always an option. They can just pick up the ball and go home. And I actually think that is that what potential negative thing for the opposed national security concerns, which is okay, let's assume that a, there is no stay of execution that tiktok is not allowed to continue to Operate after jane in nineteen um at least in the united states and and lets us soon the baby with your infrastructure to other countries and they still are running other countries and you can still log again. So what um you know uh short of of really forcing you know I S P S, N B P S and things like that to do things that those tools can do.

You know are you going to um are you going to talk to all the sales are networks and say, you know, nobody can access to have these tools or what not people are going to use B, P, S. They're going to access the service anyway. If as long as still running, pretending to be another countries, even creating accounts that make IT appears, there are other countries, but are still located in the united states, the date is still going to be sold to foreign adversary, potentially even more so. And and now you don't even have, you know, the people working in the united states as engineers on anything that was even more for black box. So if this does happen the way that is you, uh like the worst case scenario, I don't see a positive assuming you know tiktok still says Operating because people are still going to find ways to use IT and now the information is going to be even .

less protected yeah by the way, A A cork is the former and owner, this, the L A dog is the same. Frank, my cord, who was, according a surge trip in our discord, one of the most hated men and most, but he did a develop or or this this liberty of a consortium has developed apparently A A protocol designed to do exactly what he's what he's talking about, which I think is kind of interesting.

It's not it's called the decentralized social networking protocol. I think here a crack, and you need to do a profile on this guy. I think I think this is something right up your rally.

I have I have tucked him something like that could could happen because he is interesting guide and think it's failed to say he's not in the puer late because it's potentially a big business opportunity. And ah and he does have A A pretty long history of .

taking through some of, uh, i'd liked in football but I only in .

the more I like he's like a long time, big time boston ston business man and no there yeah well .

that right up your ali here my crack in is here. He does cover this kind of thing. He does really great writing at fast company that come.

I also, and I ve told you this before, I love your nostalgia pieces about old, old school tech. And so for really great stuff, it's great. Thank you.

As always, i'm a crack on give my love to marie, by the way. Well, when we had a studio, aram mary used to come up and visit the studio, as did many of you. And i'm sorry that we don't have a studio anymore.

but she's in the .

other room right now sending my love we are gonna are working hard to get to get Christinia warn at a here before the year tour begins Christinia awar is here. He is a developer relations senior developer advocate that get the github which we all love ah and a really good example of how A I can be used for coating, it's really get up copilot remarkable great to have you and also from A A microsoft joint principal engineering manager of excel co pilot, former host of this weekend in a prize tech, the great luu M M lum rescue right to have all three of you, or should they brought you by express V P N? If you go to china, bring express V P N along with you.

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okay, I am, I am. No, I am.

please. Yeah, he is coming back. I said yes .

in january.

I have the time when I when you're on the show cause I just want to talk about tvs and movies.

I mean, yes.

good stuff, content, Taylor, whatever. You know it's good stuff. But all right, let's focus on some technical um we are talking about rip and replace.

The idea of of getting those always switches uh, out of the united states infrastructure. It's expensive. It's estimated be almost five billion dollars to do that.

House representatives will be voting next week on the annual defense bill that includes another three billion for U. S. telecomm.

Companies to remove equipment from chinese telecoms. Are like wiley and C, T. E. That's that's probably good news. The fcc says it's going to cost as much as four point nine eight billion. Congress had only approved one point nine billion, so we're getting close now with the additional three billion dollars. In fact, I think this gives us the full amount that the fcc says we will need.

Um it's interesting because this is not only on the agenda of the current fcc and his chair desk a rose morsel, but IT is also brand and cars, a goal, he says, to do fully fun rip in a place in the next administration. So I think that that's gonna forward. I think that you brought that up, lue. I think that's one thing we can all agree should be done.

absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there is a plenty of other hard word companies that can offer similar technology, if not Better technology, that are a Better hand. So I think this is a Better opportunity for us to get there.

Well, that was the question in the beginning, was is there anything as good as the wow and to and you think there is from other other countries or is the U.

S. Now I mean, they're used to not sco any Better. Yeah right, just go. I mean, there's definitely you should not be. But now now there's definitely caught up.

right? Speaking of the big U. S companies, intel, intel, so sad. Well.

it's sad and it's kind of self inflicted.

Is IT not? yeah. Well, IT for years, right? For years.

for decades, for for decades.

largely sought that. I would say, yes. yeah.

Benton's is writing a lot about this instatement ory. Intel was the original integrated chip company where they would design and build their own ships, which at the time worked really well. But then along comes companies like ARM ah in video T S M C R M video design the chips.

They don't make them. T S M C makes them. And because so much money has been pumped to the t fmc mostly too.

I I have to say by apple, their technologies leapfrogged in tel technology. And so they're Better at making chips than intel and ARM. And an video Better designing chips in intel. I kind of .

leaves intel with an AMD intellection didn't rival years ago. Yes, stop making its own chips and has been on a role recently. I mean, right, i'm sorry that pat gelsinger, the CEO, didn't get more time because he was trying to undo a huge number of mistakes made before he got there. And um this is not the kind of thing you can fix in a year or two or or three years. And I think he did ever a pretty smart vision of of what to do, but I was not something he could employment in the time that the board .

gave him yeah the board. So he says he told the board the board when they were looking for a new CEO ah he says i'm not gonna the guy that's gonna piece me a out the good dismember intel you know he goes back to the andy rope days of until he was a chip cent himself is i'm not to be there guide to that, but if you want to save intel, I think I have a plan to split off the foundry, the fabs and the design into two different kind of channels. Were going to maybe make chips for apple, he said in a very ambitions.

Yes, he said apple would come back home at some point. At less that I could do.

but the board only gave him three years. I mean, apparently that was up front. You have three years, and three years is up.

A week ago, gelsinger packed the box and left. He resigned. But the resignation was so abrupt and there is no successor in in sight, pretty much seems like they fired .

him and not yeah, I think they they give a good option and either to retire or or to have retire forced upon them. I think the stuff that happened in recent years with A I also didn't help because on top of of all the stuff that the top is dealing with, there was a new big thing that .

was the lunch videos worth more than l is now yes.

what aim? He's been worth more, right? And video worth more than both of them.

But yeah, I mean, you talk about a company who they missed IT mobile completely like massively and and then we're optimistic about IT. H, I know you member this, Harry, like they were. They honestly, they were dismissive of the entire regime.

They were dismissive for armed ships all up. They were like, IT doesn't matter that our our Adams stuff is is terrible and they can be used in phones. These things don't matter.

Well, now they matter. They've also missed graphics repeatedly over and over and over again. And they have had opportunities to buy a revitts you know graphics places and have their own GPU that are not integrated stuff.

You know A M D, but um um A T I and and and they're not in video, but they at least have you know they can do something. And now they've missed A I and so I I agree with you, Harry. Like like I think patch golson go head some good plans.

I don't know anybody he could have done this turnaround. I do wonder though because they have been you know supposed be working on like there there eighteen a process and that's been delayed. And there was kind of a part in my mind that I wondered was that would force the board's hand like IT seemed like to me that if things were going in the right direction, the board would give them more time. But IT, maybe if there been more delays in that process. Another things maybe that you know was part of why they basically said you you you can leave um on your own terms or or we will ask you .

to I don't know. I golders vision had a lot to do with getting other companies to let until make their chips, which I think is just just been a slog. And IT adds more big wins and matter turned out different like you like you're so right.

Also biographically and of I mean, til I think strategic decided not to be all that serious about graphics a long time ago and and to focus focus on low end graphics. IT could build into processors. If IT had been serious about graphics twenty years ago, that might be in video today.

Yeah, maybe it's too little too late, but intel graphics is actually got ten Better and Better. They've had new releases that are you know pretty good for on chip a graphics for integrated graphics. Um they are going to announce this week, uh, at the tripoli electron devices meeting, they're gonna ounce some big advances and well, this is from tom hardwork.

I can't pretend I actually understand what they're saying, but um at breakthrough is an atomically thin to d transistors, chip packaging and interconnects. So you know of course, you've got A R N deed department and they don't stop working even if there's trouble in the stock market and they've got some great new advances. But no matter what, until does today is probably too little too late.

They also to win with the chips act on more than eight eight billion dollars following in the intel a build plants in the united states, founders ies in the united states. Um but it's just I rows IT too little, too late. What's gonna en in?

I don't know. I hope they stay around. I mean, there's it's a competition that we need need keeping abc coming from a company that's put a lot of stake in both entel d and ARM.

And now we hope that they stick around, you know. And like you said that I feel like there are other countries that are also offering you know potential taking this as well. Like I think germany's also offering a lot of money for people to bring boundaries and and actually producer chips there. I would .

imagine the entire western world is trying to do something to get manufacturer out of taiwan right in china, in case, just in case right, of a global world war. The chances .

are a lot higher. Now that seems pretty obvious, and till will be broken up or conceivable even sold at at one point that was reported that qualcomm was considering a bad soul.

said, yeah, we know.

I mean, girls singer was trying to make an an until there was still in recognizably until but more modern and successful. I I think that if the board had wanted to do that, they might have stuck with, and they will be more open to to the possibilities that that, that would be kind of sad, even if if all of the way they do make .

sense would IT be along the lines of design and fab, I mean, like split IT down the middle like that, who would buy their fab?

That's the problem. right? Because because, because here and see, you know, I mean, they all make ARM ships, right? Other than like an amb is not going to be later unless they offered them a much Better Price.

I don't see A M, D. You let them do that. So yeah that that's the problem to have a you know a founder and a fab. But you know was the pointman T S N, C. Is is, is prinkly Better, assuming you can get a time putting the political sufficient?

There are a couple of things that probably the board top is running on the wall when intel was removed from the double and favor of. And video, that's not a good thing. And then you i'm watching football and there is a big APP for microsoft saying our fastest, smartest, fastest computers ever and they're built on snapdragon.

I think this I mean, this is really bit an inflection point this year that they are finally compelling. None X D sex windows devices.

They're good, although you could still get a cop .

pilot POS .

PC on right. Um yeah it's it's it's almost a tragedy, a greek tragedy. That's that's what i'm saying.

IT really is.

He really is.

IT reminds me a little bit of digital equipment court back in the day, which at one point was was regarded as the inspiring, started up success in this country, and within a few years no longer existed.

Yeah, first, first compact, right? And in the H. P, acquired compact. So yeah, yeah. I mean, but IT IT is sad because you intel built so that I was built on until people right like generally right like you know .

going back the trade .

is twelve yeah and so you just get tell us .

unquestioned, one of the five most important companies in the history of silicon value. You could even make a pretty compelling case. It's the most important company in the history of the delhi.

I can remember the interviewing andy growth way back in the day. And even when I was winter, l right. Windows and l and that looked like a kind of an inextricable partnership.

Grove saying he was how matty was at microsoft, that they weren't supporting the new thirty two bit chips and then microsoft matted intel that they couldn't keep the hardware up with the software. And IT was always a kind of A A difficult relationship between the two companies. Uh, it's it's fascinating. I love the history of IT. All there was .

there was a great old saying, andy, give us and bill taketh away, meaning meaning the hard work up, getting Better and Better. And that was hard for software to get Better rather than to get more enough ship and .

had all that power. Fact, one of my first internships was at uh in suse berry masseuses for intel after the joe corp. Came in and I was the attending an group and I had a lot of that struggle actually.

Oh, g that was maybe you could say that was the beginning of the end. Yes, because I tani um was the next generation, wasn't eighty IT was some five five sixty four, right? And the whole idea, here's the next generation. And the time things were practically melting because they they couldn't run at at the speed that they were designed for intel, realizing there not could be sell these chips, looked to this little skunk works they had going in israel, where they were working on the core processor, and they moved the core into the mainstream and said, I itanium is not gonna happen.

I am just disappeared.

And for a long time, that work really well, I know, of course.

was amazing.

I didn't say like like X Y ty six would go on forever. And no matter how many people are predicted that I was all no toilet.

And the thing is, is that x six arguably hasn't hit the wallet. IT was intel's process, right? Because M.

D, with technology, they were able to, you know, really revolutionize the way they are able to get, you know, integrate the circuits and do all the stuff to pick a far more power efficiency and far more performance. And and that was lisa sue. And like that was you only like eight, nine years ago um but yeah you're right. Like that the course was great. I would do you wonder I kind of going back to like we look at like the mistakes if the success there maybe helps to them be have that hubris to continue .

to a vlama isn't yeah always had to be successful in so I right kind five says I didn't realized we're going to have an open casket wake in today's show. But IT does raise SE an interesting question because sometimes I think we're like， you know fish don't know there in water is just what they breathe.

It's and I feel like sometimes we're in the middle of this big tech revolution and we almost don't see that the business cycle still holds, right, that these the google and microsoft, apple and and amazon will could just go on forever. But there is a business cycle. I, B, M, fell victim of business cycle is not gone, but it's a shadow of what IT was before. IT looks like intel has fun pride. There is a business cycle, right?

yes. I mean, apple, apple and microsoft are are rare examples of companies. They were on top of the world and then faced real chAllenges, the things that made them successful and figure out how to continue to be .

extraordinary successful.

But but not exactly thing they once were. They're just another example other than those two company.

Is there the exception .

that proves the rule of IBM at one point was two member. Like when lucar r came in, IBM was in real trouble on ser, pushed away from hardware and charge services, which which were quite well for quite a long time.

With time of examples, like is another one, keep china reinvent themselves.

Codec all ride sears general elective know there is no general electric corporation anymore? no. I mean, who would have thought that, right? These were tightens um the moral marches on ah and so as this show, we are half an hour to the eros concert.

So we gotto keep go in here, Christina warn. Great to have you. We will get you out here. I promised.

I appreciate .

you guys because thank you. I'm excited for you. I wish, I mean, I didn't realized this is the last one that's pretty damn c exciting.

Wow, we fun. And I live really .

close to westerly where, you know, he has her house. He lives .

in western road island. SHE has a house. Western swift.

she's house.

Yeah, huge house is the ocean house. Ocean house in great .

house on the ocean. One more in the other. Wow, I grew near westerly. Who would have thought, right? Is that her main place?

No, no, no.

I think .

like seven.

but yeah, yeah, yeah I once had dinner with paul Simon and his wife E. D. burkill. It's long story but least that's that's .

so great.

But there's a point to this. So lisa and eat got really got. I don't do IT.

They were having a great time and lisa starts selling pelivan to eat and eat. So to paul, hey paul, we want to get the house of petrova and pauses. We have six houses already. We are not by the. So there, but for the Grace of god, I could be pol sites next door, our neighbor.

Uh, let's take a break also with this Harry mccay on from a fast company, limas sa of microsoft and the excel copilot group, our show today brought you by look out, look out, look out. At a time when the majority of sensitive corporate data has moved to the cloud, right? Your data is almost everywhere.

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We thank you so much for supporting this week in tech and invite you to a supporters by going to look at the comment if they ask you, make sure you say, I heard IT on twit, that's good news. Ah let's talk about A I the twelve days of OpenAI. It's an advent grounder of artificial intelligence.

The only story I saw was that OpenAI will now have a two hundred dollar a months plan that seems like a lot. Is there a market for I understand how expensive A I is. I pay for the twenty dollar OpenAI plane and I use IT, by the way.

Um a lot. In fact, I use IT for coating, maybe not necessarily. What are you would think of open a eyes is doing, although I imagine is that is that what behind .

a pilot knows? I. O model is GPT four o but you can choose to use um that the old one many or o one .

radio of well yes .

but as a couple of weeks ago we also introduced um support for uh anthropic in geri pro. So was a multimodal so yes but but historically going back, like the very beginning, I was built uh in partnership with opening eyes.

So we're in the middle in december. You've twelve days of open the eye, but we've got our twenty five days of the advent of code, which is a monthly early coding chAllenge that a number of people hit in the club do. We've been having a lot of fun fact.

I streamed the first four or five days, but now falling hopelessly behind. I use, and in fact, I use IT on the stream. Yeah, my ChatGPT. I gay, I I use rag for ChatGPT, and I gave IT the full bookshelf because I use of language is so old that all of the basic text available as as open source PDF is public, the main PDF.

So I loaded up with, like, twenty books, and I created a little lisp uh tool that I use and it's fantastic if I can't instead of going on. I don't know you're professional quoters ah, so you probably don't have to do this, but if i'm coding, I have to always go back to the books and what's the syntax for that add? How do I do this?

I do that all the time.

Do okay, not just me. That's why good that is because I put those books in in the in in the ChatGPT and IT knows him more but then the funny thing is that I tried IT with code pilot and I tried IT with germany and IT new no， all too. So really need to do IT this way uh, anymore but one advantage of IT is I say, don't make up, don't say anything that's not in the books I gave you so can't hallucinate.

right? I am still trying to teach ChatGPT terr city level two basic and thanks for you.

But I mean.

there are quite a few and they're all near at archive like without being trained on that doesn't it's terrible. Less just guess that needs more material. But at some point, i'm going to upload those PDF in and see whether this is good at at programming basic, as I am. I would I don't use IT.

And just to be clear, actually there's a little bit of a controversy around the advent of code because you know, it's a time coating chAllenge. I do not do IT for time, but there are people who are solving these daily chAllenges in in minutes. But all of a set, a few have come along.

In fact, the very first one solved IT in nine seconds. yeah. And IT became apparent that that person had just fed the is a text problem, fed IT in the OpenAI or something copilot, and had IT write the code.

And IT worked, and he got the answer in nine. I don't even going to cut based in nine seconds, but he somehow did IT. And there's still a kind of ongoing controversy because there's a leader board and there are a few people in later board who really unreasonably quick second s instead of minutes. So um they are good but I I don't cut in pace code from and it's mostly for .

me a reference work and I also do like P H P and C S S. No and in that case, usually I written code that doesn't work. And right one time I D have ten, it's completely confused and gives me terrible advice. But most of the time IT IT quickly helps me get to where .

i'm trying to get. One thing i've done that is great, as i've .

given .

IT a block code. So what does this do? Yes, it's a you can .

give you the .

most best .

to explain into, write them like I ject. And that's one of the things I use copilot for so much like .

please write this natural just .

thinking about four one, which is why this is cosas. Two hundred dollars a month is the four one model. I've been had a chance to play with this and utilize IT for a while, and it's really impressive with coding.

You can give IT, I could I could say, give me a web APP or give you some parameters. IT will go do some reasoning and will dump out code that actually works the first time. It'll give you explanations.

You tell new features like I want wipe last, wipe left t right, delete that anything, it'll actually go and adjust the code for you. And you know you do that and four o IT, actually you get your responses, you get some strange areas in the code. So like I would say, that's the biggest thing that people are paying for is just know the additional reason is going on in the .

correctional ism. Yeah so so theyve only announce. So just to be clear, you said, oh, one there was chat four o which that was they had that video where they talking to IT and scarlet, your hand and get piss off and and all of that that was four o which is a more conversational one. But you've gone beyond that now. So what are the models now?

So they for row, but they like six, six versions of foo. So they come up with different versions. If you know, it's like theyll be a main version in August. Which actually Better, Better know and .

good at reasoning. Isn't that what? They, the U. K, well, dead.

why? It's actually have .

more time, more CPU. yeah. My gp, yeah. T, P, U, oh, that's interesting. So you're pay to another box so you can have access more hardware resources .

so you can do a faster make sense, right? Because original moes in the preview days use thirty seconds to a minute.

So is IT. It's not practicable to do IT in a timely way on on your own local hardware at this point.

Not at that level, not that level. no. I mean, you you can do some pretty impressed things with lama if you have no forty, ninety or or even like a cluster of them or even that many is right.

Like or yeah who doesn't have a cluster of video of forty?

Well, no. But even like local apple sica machines, especially you like multiples are even if you have ones that have like high ranking, you can get pretty good results from from some of the lama and some of the uh tuned lama like version people put on hugin face now is IT.

When they're tuned, they're tuned to specific .

tasks or for specific sizes. Yes, right. So so so what people will do is they'll basically be like, okay, we know that this, you know this many promoters won't run on your hardware, but we can maybe remove some things that we don't think you want or pacific task, and also to fit in a specific site.

This is one of the biggest, most interesting developments to me in A I is these different size models so that you can run some models on a device like a smart phone, which apple does with apple intelligence. And then if it's too big for that, IT goes to apple's zone servers, which is they are building out.

And if it's too big for that, then they say, okay, we can do IT, but maybe OpenAI can do IT or claude, well, they don't have gami caudium, but maybe OpenAI can do IT. Beware now we're going to be sending your data to third party services and then they let them do that. I think that's fascinating and you can now uh locally play with these different models. Yeah by downloading, there's a number of programs I have used .

olam olam awesome .

was to called any, anywhere, anything, anything. There are a couple of them that let you download the models and then play with IT. It's nice, have locally, but honestly, I don't mind pain twenty books two google for german I claude, uh, throw for claw and on IT open the eye and perplexity I pay for two and there are a multimodal so yeah, I have four different .

wasting.

have their .

adventure like a thirty dollar version of chat. V T.

That's just little faster .

and a little less limited because I do some max out my access to .

the so do you use IT for writing.

Henry? Not really. Um maybe occasionally if I if i'm trying to think of a word and I use that as like a super powerful of the sora no book I am though which is is this google tool based on german I that lets you organize your transcripts and notes? I do use that and it's been super helpful when when I have like interview a dozen people and i'm trying .

to remember who who said something .

interesting that so useful. Google deep has been up on our website for a couple of weeks and there is a new issue that just coming out. And since that was about google deep, german I am at all, and and using no book, I am to help people get together. And IT IT really was extremely helpful and solve some long standing problems i've had with not remembering who said what.

So the top I want to get, we have stuff about deep mind, and we have stuff. I want to talk about all that stuff. And but I do want to finish twelve days of OpenAI.

There's only been one so far. Right is right. They're taking the weekend .

two there too far. But yes, yeah, but you're right. They are taking some time. And i'm wondering if they're leaving to the best. The last we have to see here.

the first one was o one and ChatGPT pro, right? And there same on the left with his, with his team. And what was good about the pro is at the two .

hundred dollar one OK.

And what is oh, one good for ones is .

the reasoning model, the chain of thought model, right? Yeah, right. And that's the one that you'll get amazing results with, with cracks ness and and so on.

And they can do math, which was hard to do for a language based LLM, because all was doing is predicting the next word. And that turns out one place one is always too.

It's multi model to so supports images.

images as well. O O K uh and then the next announcement, uh the day two announcement was uh OpenAI reinforcement tuning research program. Anything to tell us about that? Does that?

I don't know too much about that, but no other thing.

I guess if you're going .

to do twelve.

you get for you is that everything going .

to be a hit, right? IT is an correct.

yes. Sometimes it's just like a little like card.

We love you. We love you. It's like cracker jack. When I was a kid, you'd get actual toys.

You could choke to this on now it's little pieces of paper is nothing, all right? So we'll watch you do anticipating big announcements. I know both of you probably already know a lots, so I actually .

I know nothing. I think I think this is a great marketing. I think this is a great part of opportunity onest.

Ly, I think it's it's a fun later, yes.

And because I could think it's two things like, one, I think it's a fun marketing thing. And two, I think that this is especially given all the very good competition is out there from you companies like and um you know um uh google and of course no matter um showing like how much variable to innovate and how much there able ship like I think that it's it's so it's kind of two things, right? Like I think it's it's good for the consumer, you know maybe put out new things and get awareness. But I also think that is almost maybe secondary thing is almost probably for the investors were like what can always suffer doing well.

especially now because IT looks like there may be some headwinds with the next of administration. Now might be a good time to kind of say, hey, remember, we're still number one. We're still the best. We're still out there. We still have .

the microsoft said, P, T, five.

Okay, he did also, though I saw somebody. Did he not say that they already have A G I in the lab?

I think he's adjust to the definition of each guy is think.

but they were trying to kill one of the models, and I didn't want to be killed.

Sound like this is two thousand. One.

this sound like B S to me, but all right, I am. You know, I come and go with the I like, obviously those users, we just showed many valuable uses at the same time, it's, I don't know what ever get. Hell, nine thousand. And let me do you should pope, we don't actually .

come to think of IT 是。

let me take another break. I'm trying to get out of here. I ve have a lot more A I stories though.

I want to do some more A I stuff. Just a second. But first, a word from theme. This is response you want to know about, because theme get, this theme is used by seventy seven percent of the fortune five hundred.

What is theme you want to know? They just raise a whole bunch more because what they do is so important. They are the experts in data resilience.

I've always wondered when you hear all this company just paid to five million dollar ransome, where ever feed to get their data back? Or this company has been down for three weeks because they get hit by when I said, what do you have backup PS, don't you? What is going on, well, turns out is a hard thing to do, but that's exactly what theme does see without your data.

Look at that fifteen billion dollar valuation. This is they do something really important without your data. Your customers trust turns to digital dust teams, data protection and rent somewhere recovery.

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When digital disruptions like ransom strike theme does, three important things, of course, lets you back up and recover your data and do so instantly across your entire cloud ecosystem, wherever that data lives. That's important. Beam actually can stop.

And somewhere in its tracks, IT will proactively detect malicious activity and stop IT before IT happens. The other thing thing does is so important, and I know you want to do this being helps to remove the guest work by automating your recovery plans and policies. You have a recovery planning policy, right? Yeah, well, maybe that makes time to get vme get real time support from ransom recovery experts to theme has the best support, the best product.

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Good reason is something we all need V E E A M that come in if they ask tellme. Heard of here. Okay, you were talking about deep mind.

I know if they had this um out when you interviewed them, Harry, but google has a new deep mind weather forecast system. They published a paper in nature that said they are Better than the best european centre for medium range weather forecasts. E, N, S.

yeah, I did in earlier one retrained dimension, which itself is impressive. But the swan is like, on a whole, another, another level.

this is a really good use for A I, right? Because you have where's a chaotic system? I mean, I probably at the at the base, at the root of IT, it's deterministic. I guess if you can get all the millions of data points in there, very hard to predict weather. Obviously, this is something in A I might .

be really good at. I think it's also and google deep minds wheelhouse alphabet is like probably there their signature are coming .

the best chess player in the world, right? And they be go and so yeah.

they're good as this is the sort of thing that they are really, really great at. Sometimes they have our chAllenge is kind of production and commercializing A I, although they have made in roads there. But in in terms of the the road research that can do useful things for humanity day, they have have a great record and will be found to say work.

And you could see how important this is, not just because of these big hurricane getting, but if you're a farmer, knowing you're gona have dry weather, or wet weather is so important, they have, they say, faster, more accurate forecast up to fifteen days ahead of time. And they are Better predicting extreme events than the EMS or the ec mw. fns.

My story, I mean, my story touches on kind. There's a little bit attention now because google used to have google brain and deep mind, these two large A I research arms and um google brain was kind of focused on on making gmail on google search and google maps Better and deep mind was doing stuff like like proteins and weather and last year they merged them and put demons assab the CEO of deep, deep, deep mind in charge of both of them. And you trying to continue to pursue this the stuff like like weather that's really important but not necessarily like an an immediate cash cow for a google well sim multi ese like keeping up with apple and microsoft and meta and all these other companies who are much more focused on the participation side, which google been struggling with a little bit on.

Very interesting.

I think. I mean, they at the moment, they are theyve made progress on the product side, and they are continuing to do do the deep research. So it's possible they'll able to do both, but it's of a new twice and a new chAllenge. So for sir R A nobel lat nol this .

right uh pretty amazing. Um and then you mention the book, and one of features that got a lot of attention was no book. I am starting to do podcasting yeah taking your documents and turning into a male and female para pod casters.

Uh, I am not threatened by this. I know maybe some musicians you're threatened by the idea that A I can make music. I don't think they really are so as good as sora is IT doesn't replace real musicians like the wonderful Taylor is swift about the performance about three hours. No SHE will not be replaced by A I. I know i'm hopeful that guess will be replaced by A I here.

I mean that the ones that no book alone puts together, just in terms of how they sound, and the conversational aspect there are saying .

this amazing, seems like they .

are really, they really shallow and they .

do the snail all .

that itself. They they do, they sound great. And you know, if you want to just kind of like it's one of those things is obviously early and and it's not perfect, but kind of takes the idea that we had like a decade ago with inside paper and in pocket and things like that where you we were like, oh, what if I could turn this into an audio digest and there were number of startups um that have come out over the years that you know what higher voice actors are, sometimes use A I to read those articles to you. And this is kind of like the next step of that, which is to a you know the A I voices got ten good enough IT is a threat Frankly to you voice actors unfortunately but um you know for things like audio books seems so like that. But uh you know consulting several sources and kind of giving you a digest, it's not perfect.

But I like die of what IT is. It's good. We are all old enough to remember early voice synthesis. And Harry here I was like cafe castle wolfstein on the on the apple two and and soldiers .

ago yeah I mean a blue sky. Recently I I shared the T R, A voice sync zer, which was like hundred dollars, and you could barely understand that. And then there was a, there was a long period of an uncanny valley like from yuan.

And in recent years, the voices have been about ninety percent towards being great. But that last ten percent was really hard on your ears. We finally a voice, what you might listen to for for an hour. I think nobody .

has to be distinguished. Probably this might .

be your chance to localize, go global. They can actually return in a different languages.

I know I could. The technology now exists to take all of our podcast and put them out in chinese with lips matching and everything. And the eleven labs has just announce a similar podcast, uh, tool.

They do amazing voices. We use some of them. Yes, I think isn't Anthony.

He didn't use seven lamps to do A I eos voice. yes. yeah. So I have a little imaginary friend sounds just like me. But so I, so I have eleven elves.

They bought my favorite news reader, which called on in, or they just recently bought them. And so i'm now going to have to use the eleven reader, but they just added a new voice which cracks me up. Let me see if I can find that they just added rit.

So they have i'll play a few of them like they have john lin death, but settle up anyway. Sure, I say that all the time and they have you. So they have learned to livia.

That's not a recording of Olivia. That's a synthesized voice. Okay, you can stop talking, sir larns, but now they have, I have gotta play this for you. This is history.

Where are the voices shoot apps? I just, I don't understand them are here they are. They have Richard fineman.

You wants to hear Richard fineman, this is sterile. I don't know why do you want a book read in this, but it's pretty cool. I would rather have questions that can be answered than answers that can be questioned.

That's Richard five, man, they must have got Jerry guard sea. Sometimes the likes of me, other times I can barely see. And IT goes to me what a long is but I don't know if really sounds .

sounds say that that's .

the thing and I do feel bad because like I.

I A good read er can make up our break in audio book for me and and there are some readers and and and I feel like the .

highest and ones .

like the scotch icks of the world will always get work. But the people who are not as good like you know you you do wonder like our our publishers just going to deep bolt to these voices and and part of me feels like, okay, well, if it's close enough, maybe that progress making more books will have audio versions. But there's another part of me that is very upset about the fact that what I do think is a real art form for people who can narrow things really well, you know, is is being a potentially disastrous cisse, just because we can do IT faster.

This is the, this is all the in every creative realm. This is what's happening with A I you know I imagine part there's it's already a problem that there's eighteen million pocket, but now that numbers gonna triple because half of omber. Somebody was just saying that there are I didn't know this. A lot of AI generated documentaries on youtube and he says they're all kind of shallow and human but and I don't know, maybe that will go away also. Yeah, we had those things.

right? Likely you've had a lot of you is that weren't completely A I generated, but we're largely kind of peace more like know reading with A A generated voice of know some you know snip. They've gotten some place you kind of generic background stop and what not like.

That's been happening for a long time. We can do IT faster. And so on the one hand, that's bad because more back and infiltrate system, we create more spam. But on the other hand, like it's I don't know IT IT makes me feel tightly Better to be like this isn't a brand new problem, is just maybe the velocity and maybe ironically, using A I we if the networks care like or the platforms care, they could block the the uploading. Absent the A I things.

it's harder and harder to do that.

by the way.

because you guys are really .

sneaking y, but you know doesn't mean that that is that is like that doesn't interesting chAllenge suit, right? Which should be like, okay, help, just treated like.

So what you can do with nobody is the same two voices all the time, women. But now you can do with eleven labs effects. Someone is done IT. They took the transcribe from a nop gelon podcast, fed IT to eleven labs and change the voices. So now you get have a pockets with john way and Richard fineman if you want IT.

It's gonna every album to the estates of all these and celebrate ties.

Yeah, i'm sure they're paying them a hot they're paying them a lot. Judy garlands in there, a lot of famous people are in here. Um we live in a very interesting .

time like I am actually I.

I mean .

i'm license works. They has this work on this like is well, I wonder if it's the estate or see, this becomes an interesting question. Is that the estate or is the is the um the studio OK they just go to M G M in catalog or are they going to be in her name?

I think you I state.

but again, like I, I think that's going to become increasingly like an important point.

people to happen the contract. Look, here's here's deep chopra. Now he's still alive.

I'm sure he's getting finding love, compassion and you open yourself to the infinite potential of the universe. That's i'm done. Great time to my podcast voice. You know, you want to hear me much more.

I want to thank you love for putting in we love on mallie used to have on the show kind of get back on he's kind of seme retired. He's the quota of tech created gig on a and and then became a VC. He has a blog now called crazy, stupid tech, and he writes, you wrote, you put this in here, and I think this is a great piece which everybody should real A I eat the browser.

And, you know, he's talking about the evolution of technology, really. And in specifically, in this case, he's talking about what art is about to do. Art created the brothers i'm using right now.

I really like IT. But they are now moving to something knew they called dea, which is A, I don't know what we will see, a bread, A I browser or something. And he interviews the head of the browser company and josh and learn and talks about him.

It's impressive like this is the like the intelligent browser that understands you, what you like and what you enjoy and .

able to .

weed out false information.

It's just a really impressive thing, I think, right, right.

And open the eye has been talking about building a browser. We I think that we may be headed for the shake up in browser in general, especially if if forced to sell crime to somebody else. Some of I want to use other about this recently.

I mean, browsers go through these cycles of being exciting and boring. And the other than things like are the last few years have been kind of boring. And we we haven't seen safa or chrome b change much. I just been fun to see, but even that's been around for a while. And I I think there is a good potential of for a ID of kind of shake things up and kind of feels right now like like chrome is what I used to be. If the hundred pound garon, it's hard to see how to be less popular, but there's a decent chance that that I could give somebody an entry point to um be the duck browser that everybody uses and well not .

just the brother hari search as well, right? Mean that's how that's how google really makes money.

right? And the browser and search strickly link to each other, particularly with all these people not getting around to change in.

there are default search chances, right? Um I feel like um you know I use a cognition .

is here .

to use IT really I thought I was the only .

one pay month.

ten box a month to have a good search that surprising the people would do that. But interesting, how about, you know, what do you use for your search?

I don't use a search anymore. Just, you know.

copilot something like that. You say that's what google worried about.

yes.

And coffee offered me perplexity is how I got involved with plexus. And plexi now has a search tool that's in A I search is very interesting. We are, thank goodness, getting interesting times. Now we're also getting into the witching hour from ms. Christina warn film girl, i'm going to let you do have a special outlook you're going to wear um .

i'd probably just because of so last minute and but how do I head on? This is kind of a black reputation. I've got a hold.

What's good? You're ready. I think you're ready to go.

I'm basically ready to go. So I leave you guys enjoy the rest the show. Thank you so much, as always.

Look.

Harry, great of you and everybody a .

great thing. Thank have a great time. At the last years show, I got to hear .

all about .

IT you'll post on instagram, right?

I will post on instagram and and I I talk about next one.

Thank you, Christina.

right? Thank you so much.

Take your guys. We do have some final stories will get to those in just a minute. But first, a word from our sponsors. Recruiter loves if they're more than a sponsor to a super cooter is where we go when we're hiring there.

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They haven't found him within a million current resume is on fog because people come there looking for work, right? So they will look at those resumes and say, hey, here's some candidate whose qualifications, mature requirements, you can look at those people and invite the once you really like to apply for your job. Now that is a magical trick, because when you go out, reach out to a thing, say, hey, I saw your resume.

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Now we had to let the Christina go to the show and actually, maybe you just started you and me. Harry, what's going on? We have a blank spot. It's my bed once.

Like, it's to get you disappeared.

low.

Thanks.

luu. M. M. Continues with the show. He is of course the product manager for uh for a code. Let me get the right engine engineer engineering manage pilot for excel code pilot for excel n python or in python basically .

python yeah cope of excel with python.

So let me ask you about that because that's really interesting to do so, you can write python code if you like to go to make .

sell now yeah, that's been released. You can just go in there. And just in a Normal formula. I like .

you do Normal formula. You can still do do IT in python.

you can still do those.

but the python is there for you and you python is the number one language for a data processing.

And you can basically pick any library that in the most libraries in the nicander library um and and just the code in in a formula in the way you go and now copy actually write IT for you so you can ask you to do some advances analysis of your of the data IT will go and produce so pretty amazing uh graphs and charts and insights and there um it's really fun to use. I think I i've had a lot of next with that.

I remember when they announced ah that python will be part of itself. That was a few months ago, thought that's really interesting, but I didn't understand how, right. So that's really good. That's tight integration.

That's really super day and the even I did just release the super cool edy's is that obvious code based um just right in excess you just pop IT open and and click and click the you type in pie and the formula on and editor is .

this primarily for data scientist?

I guess is not I I thought so in the begin, I would say, yeah like that basis who is playing with IT, right? But now it's just as simple as like you go in there and a give me a distribution, give me this, you know do an analysis of trends or give me a prediction and IT actually generate the model, the code for and generate the model and produced the insight and dumped the graph in, in, in the document right there.

It's pretty bresson, we were talking, mention the advent of code. We have A A group of people are in the club that are doing that and one of them darn oke used to code for uh you know back off a stuff for data, for brokers, for finance is a lot of the quantities python. Um so I know the banks.

you in fact, if you want to be an analyst for a bank now, you have to know python yeah .

wow so yeah but this is this .

is really not mean the copilot integration stuff that i'm doing. You don't have to know python like this is just you can do some really cool things with you know the fact that python has some more advanced analysis capabilities and just cool has so exactly you how to fun to play. In fact, I saw a real state at recently um dump all of there like comes in there and do like in advance analysis to trending and they don't know any paths.

So wow, what are you that's a cool you a cool part of the company that before we had mentioned, I think last week that there was a rumor that, that the government was investigating microsoft once again. Uh but microsoft has denied that. Then the F, T C says were no comment.

I think this is a story that has no legs, to be honest with you. So i'm like to mention IT ap says ftc opens microsoft any stress investigation, trump administration must Carry on a drop. But so many times had IT a lot of blumberg think started uh everybody independently confirmed IT I guess with the ftc.

But the ftc is not talking publicly and north microsoft. So and by the way, an investigation doesn't mean a uh a lawsuit or a trial or anything. That just means they are .

looking at them, right? Seems like it's stem from the fact that with our partnership, everybody I right, I think that was stem from ftc.

According to this is the story from ap, ftc is investigating microsoft cloud computing business and related product lines like A I and cyber security. Could a person not authorized to discuss details publicly? You know, who knows what i'll happen?

One of the things, I think if I were big, a big tech company, A C you of a big tech company like jeff bazas or so der patch I or your own such an adella, I would be pretty bullish about the next administration. A lot of that big tech, uh, uh, you know, prosecution. I think we'll go away because as trump is said about google, the chinese are scared of them. This is, this is the the the playbook that tim cook used to twenty seventeen in last administration to keep trump from putting terrible on iphones and actually.

and writing about this for my next news letter right now. Perfect topic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot people do see tim cook as a model because he he quite a late for dist relationship and was able to get taxes repeated ated from other countries at a favorable rate.

That was a big day, right? That apple had billions of dollars in ireland.

And obviously, if if the iphone had become a lot more expensive because of types that I would have been a major problem. But but there .

was this book told and IT did involve all a little Better .

kind of sucking things up like he LED um trump on this tour of this flex tron x plant that have been around forever, ever in texas and trump talked about IT. I'd open this great, great new apple .

plant up of the making. Mac prosers is twenty thirty and .

nobody pointed out that it's not an apple plant and it's not new. So and and one of the things I planned to right about IT, that part of the chAllenge of this is that being on trumps good side involves not saying bad stuff, about time.

which you know, I know what that's called politics. Anytime you deal with a politician, you're trying to get it's a do you're trying to get the best for your company, that's I do good.

I do think it'll be a child. And if some of the worst case scenario pan out in terms of what trump might try to do this time around and you you also people like employees and customers who um might not be thrill if you um only say these kind of a guarded nice things about trump.

If you're a stakeholder of a big company like apple by stakeholder ming, you're you benefit. If they benefit, you're a stock older. You want tim cook to do what's best for your stock, for you, for the company.

This is y if you to you hold your nose .

and you say, hey, this is politics. This is how IT is.

Although there were a few instances as last time around up like particularly with the famous separations where you did see C E O speak out against that um that that came and went very quickly. So i'm not sure i'd actually any great impact on how that turned out, but I think it's at least conceivable IT will be harder for um um this kind of very generally relationship bet between the ceos and trumpet and not cause new problems for the ceos involved.

I think that do you agree though that in the in in the long run, it's going to be Better for U S. Technology companies or maybe not.

But I mean this is this is potentially an area where um we might okay. Um yeah I think I think there is you remember that .

there is was this a whole issue with conservatives and many in trump s court trumpet himself who felt that big tech was censoring conservative speech and they were they were made a big tech for that. It's my guess that that's gonna away. They're not gonna worry about that because they got elon and he's not censoring and they're gonna really look at. And this is this is the path that tim cook used so effective. Well, last time, what's best for american companies will say.

I think I think you know trap quite recent less talk about putting mark sucker g in jail. So I don't think .

that's true.

The chances that's going to translate anything happening and probably incredibly y but I think .

he's got over then. I think zaga says to him, luck tude, we're in american company. I think what american companies do well, right?

I think it's possible that trump will continue to say whatever he wants to social x so whatever he he goes but but IT but IT won't translate in the unfavorable situations for these companies. Well.

will watch with interest. Speaking of reti c, this is historical course. There's a soli typhoon problem, which is the chinese hacking group that has gotten into our phone system and now we know has been listening in the phone calls of the at the highest levels of the american government.

You you interpret that as you wish, but that's what they're saying. They're still in there. The government is trying to get the phone and set the phone company is to lock down their systems.

I don't know how easy that is going to be to do. In response, the FBI has warned iphone and android users start using secure messaging, not the building messaging on your phone. You signal facebook messenger, WhatsApp.

But then, and this is a great piece by zac often and a forbes, they also say, oh, but make sure you only use an encryption technology that we have a back door in what what they call IT, responsibly managed encryption. The FBI says, quote this, egypt should be designed to protect people's privacy and also manage so us. Tech companies can provide redial content in response to a lawful court order, A K, A book, which, by the way, is why salt typhoon is in there because of kolia.

What salt typhoon is doing is tapping into the lawful intercepts that were authorized by kolia almost twenty years ago. They found the back door. This is just more of the same.

So by the way, what tech companies do provide a responsibly managing cripp? None, none. Apple doesn't have a back door signal.

Doesn't have a back door. Meta uses the signal technology. WhatsApp.

right?

Does I message?

Yeah, I message. You signal as well. So .

they all.

you know that I think so. I FBI director.

crisis race says the public should not have to choose between safe data and safe communities. We should be able to have both. We can have both. Collecting the stuff is getting harder. This is that going dark problem, right? Because so much of that evidence that lives in the digital realm, terrorist hackers and child predators, are taking adventure of rendering encryption. So no, what the chinese to use our own wiretapping technology to listen in on the president's phone calls, we want you to use, encrypt the technology, but please don't use end to end encryption because we can't listen. And either .

at the same old same .

the hypocrite y is mind boggling. Anyway, just thought I pass along that that advice from the FBI you you have to wonder .

how this is going to impact these companies. So like there's obviously fear mongering is a thing that does prevent people from moving forward on things. And so people think my data gone or my I need to move something else could could hit the profits of these company.

You think apple might say, alright, will will give you a, will give you a back door or encryption, an I know signal? Never will.

There's a new story about apple being sued over the stuff they did to taxi m, which they end ended up not actually deployed.

They did they didn't do IT.

yes. Well, they'd been to because they didn't do IT therefore. Therefore, they didn't take action to make IT harder to .

share that stuff.

stop them from not like there's back to because these companies find you know in like even IOS eighteen has some back doors like what stops apple from just not fixing IT for a while that that's .

what they could do. Celebrate of courses which one of the technology's law enforcement uses works right up until the latest dios t um you know they found the in this case with the a, the assassination of the chairman of united health care, the C. O of united health care. A phone was left behind and I thought immediately of the fb is going to have to go to whether it's apple or android or google, they're going have to go to that company, say we want in unless it's an older phone, in which case can you celebrate exploit and exploit. But apple patches that every time, I guess, you think they might drag their feet next time.

I mean, we say that they don't like, agree or they don't part partner with these these federal organizations, but that doesn't mean that they don't have another way of doing IT.

So right, I guess you know what? Um I see I have nothing to hide. I guess I don't really good yeah .

the yeah .

a big a you know about the season clock. The atomic clock is actually measuring the vibrations of cesium as actual transitions not even measures, measures. Well, time keeping is on the verge of a leap, a great leap.

Ford there is a sesia fountain is used by nist um to create the digital second. IT is a IT is um IT use a season one thirty three they count the high frequency transitions are the transition of of an electron. A season one thirty three occurs in every second nine billion, one hundred nine, two million and six hundred and thirty one thousand, number seven times. And the reason that this is important is because if they could get a higher frequency transition, then this measurement, which occurs from time of time, would be less of in the impact you to have a more accurate second.

stable, stable, more stable second.

Well IT turns out they have found away apparently to do that um in september twenty twenty one scientists used strong him, which has a much higher transition frequency. In fact, IT falls within the range of visible light. The transition frequency of season is much like that of a microwave in the billions.

This is a much, much higher, which means by twenty thirty, we may redefine the second. We may have a new standard for a digital clock. I don't know why i'm bringing this up. I just think it's I think it's great.

fascinating else.

Yeah, you know I mean, they used to be they measured a second like in the old days, they measured the second by like measuring the sky. So I don't know what they did. Accurate time keeping is always, this is a great story in the science is alert.

Accurate time keeping is always been part of human mankind. Social evolution of the neolithic monument of new range in the ireland. There's a picture of IT.

A special opening about the entrance allows sunlight to eliminate the passage and chAmber on the shortest day of the year coming up. The winter souls is december twenty first. That's what stone hinge did.

Other 日本 other clocks like that？ Then there were water clocks up until nineteen sixty seven. A second was one eighty six thousand four hundreds of a day.

I think I think was really fascinating about this is this will actually have impact on scientific research, like, for instance, the search for dark matter or something pretty there.

You need very, very, very precise measurements. yes.

What the downside is. So the second we've already .

got nothing, don't worry about IT. You're okay. You know it's IT. It's faster because GPS uses uh, clock. It's very important right for GPS to work to have a clock that is uh accurate with all the satellite because you have to measure the difference in the transmission of the signal at different angles, but at all. But in they have to make a adjustment for relativity based on the speed of the earth's movement.

In the satellite's movement improves einstein's theory relativity because those relatively tic adjustments based on einstein calculations are accurate and GPS works only because einstein was right. So, you know, I don't know what. Thank thank you.

physicist. I don't know.

One last story we talked on wednesday, any aco brought up the fact that the original ruby slippers and from the visit of us were at auction. They have sold now. They sold this weekend for twenty eight million dollars.

Get somewhere.

Do not put those on. They have her name sewn into IT. They went through a whole bunch of stuff to prove the prevents that. These are the actual. There were three models made for the movie.

I thought that I was smart .

one pair yeah there's one in the us. Massoni, I think um and so they compared IT to that. There's a hot this sexy, fascinating subject which we talked about IT extensively weekly because I was very little little apple tips.

Are they they the most iconic?

No, I think there's just one of the three, that's all.

But I think are those three pairs like the most icc onic c movie prop of all time?

Well, that's interest in near times. Ask that question. The previous record holder was marie on rose dress from the seven year, and you know the one where he stands over the subway. And that goes up that sold in twenty eleven for five and half million dollars.

stuff like Christopher reve superman suit, the how bunch.

right, right, right?

The lorian dorrian.

the .

loran is good. An auction of the wicked, which which of the west hat warned by markt hamilton, also sold at that time, sold for three million dollars.

It's kind of call that they actually bother to keep them back then like, but I guess they must done before the movie even came out and know they did not know at the time that decades later, people would care .

the slippers actually were stolen, that one? Or was that this .

pair they were stolen?

Yes, yes. The slippers were lent to the judy garland museum in grand rapids. They were stolen in in two thousand and five. F, B, I, agent set up a sting Operation, recovered them in twenty eighteen. Uh, this be a .

movie.

Something is because the guys stole them, not because they thought of ruby was something. They thought they were actually made of rubies no, there's made the glass. Are these these networks at stolen thought? Oh, I got a shoes made our rubies.

They weren't worth anyway um so the judy garland museum said museum is raising money um to buy them back but they were only able to raise one hundred thousand dollars, which isn't enough. For twenty thousand dollars, though, the museum did by a painting depicting the scene where the wicket, which is hands, is up as he tries to take the shops. So they got something, something eleven. Twenty eight million .

dollars folks.

I think we are off to see the wizard. It's the end of the end of the line for this show. Thank you so much.

Harry, my crack on, miss you. I wish we had a studio free to come visit, at least we can do IT this way so it's not so very bad. I can't wait to read your article uh about um um the what was the weather.

what was that I A big feature on on that and then and still writing in my newsletter will talk him about next wednesday which is is about this taxi eos and how they will attempt to deal with a derling jump .

two point and how do we get your newsletter?

Where is that go online and and either google or cogged for a plug in fast company and you you should get the page where you can sign up .

the name of IT is plugged in by Harry micron .

latest .

yeah and is from fast company and .

and you don't need to subscribe. You can also find a page on our site with .

all neuters and you do now you still do that, right? That you've been doing all the way up to the golden gate region back.

Yes, I I went to larks most recently, and I need to figure out where i'm coming next. I have two e bike batteries now. So maybe maybe someday I get.

maybe someday you'll get .

to peto a by e back, which I think would be doable as long as I could charge once I was there.

that would be fun. Yeah, you can charge here. We, I ride a red power e bike, and I love IT. It's a lifesaver because we live on a hill and I don't have to worry about that. I could just title up the hill what but you I see you have an article um in your in your plug the news letter.

Which one do you like? I I like L I fact have the same as l for four and half years, and I i've done so many upgrades. I don't particularly want a new one because the one I have is exactly what what I.

to be nice, I have to take a look at. Why do you .

like IT so much? I like the the mid mount motor. IT doesn't have A A threat but it's really good for hills because .

like the motor's .

built right in in the peddles, it's a dutchy bike. I think .

that's cool ah and I think van move when on a business .

and they did, but then they were rescued at the last moment. But yeah, one of the chAllenges there are so many ebag companies and um they're big ones, little ones. There are ones to do a lot of their own tech. There are ones are basically just assembling parts.

Yeah, the red powers is chinese motor and mostly chinese parts.

Yeah, the the goal uses a bosh system, which a lot, a lot of my best.

Oh, right. It's expensive. It's one of five thousand dollars. So I have to when it's time to replace the red power.

The one I wrote about was five thousand dollars. My mind was not five thousand OK.

The deal you wrote about the t what is that? T eleven plus. All right, you see, every time I read these reviews ago, I should get that that looks good there.

There are some great a bike do not cost fire grand.

I will watch your plugged in newsletter for your article that you work in on today hearing a crack on from fast company. Great to see you. Thank lum asa. He is a principal engineering manager in charge of wow. What is the about the coolest thing I ever heard of XL .

copilot with python? Yeah, is really a super charge.

Sprecher excel always been like, amazing. We used to have the guiding mystery cel.

He loves this too.

By the way, I think, yeah.

I it's like people don't think that new stuff come to excel, but you know, this is just a lot of .

fun and play if you are in school and you want to get a job, if you became an excel wizard, proficient excel with python and copeland, this the world .

would be a sister yeah yeah like I was saying, we work with a lot of banks, and I would say ninety percent of them. Some people have been saying ham learning python just by realizing this feature.

I to play with IT. There is, there is a guy on an event of code who has been using excel to sort problems. But I guess if you have python and copilot, you probably, I mean, you know, you got everything you need in there.

That's pretty cool. That's really cool. Look, is really great to see you again. Lum, miss you a long time hosted this weekend in a Price tech, one of the nicest guys in technical, two of the nicest people in technology right here.

And then there's Christina warn, we miss her, but she's off probably right now walking over to the arena. So you can see the last year as tour. We thank all of you for joining us. We especially thank our club to IT members who made this litter, literally, literally made this show possible without your help, uh, tweet would not exist. Cub twit is only seven box of months.

We try to give you some real benefits for your membership, including ad free versions of every show we do video for shows that we only put out nodia like hands on markets, sheens on windows um the scot Walker sin home theater geeks, the entitled linux show. We do a lot of great shows and if you want the video, join the club. You can also join the discord, which is the best hang ever.

I'm hanging out in the discord doing the event of code problems with a bunch of great people. He's not just talking about the shows. We're talking about everything is going on in the world around us, all the technology, all the shows.

And yes, there there's even conversations about minecraft in there. We've got the minecraft service back up, thanks to A A kindness club member line at roll one hundred and eighty one. Thank you, liana morrow.

So if you are in the club and you want to plan our mine crafts service, we actually have one that's a survival server that is said very hard to play, and one is a creative server that is actually the entire build that O M G chat did an OMG craft fifteen years ago, ten years ago, and it's benee onto its incredible bill. If you want to participate that, join the club. If you want to participate in our club events, join the club.

We just did to asked me anything with the Emily for lining the home theater geeks recordings coming up tomorrow. We do IOS today live in there. Chis mark ward's photo time is coming up on the twelve micus crafting corners on the nineteenth.

And we going to do Stacy's book club. I'm been reading the newest James S. A coron novel for this, the mercy of the god's.

It's really good. Quick, you have time. You have a couple of weeks to read IT a really excEllent, but I think even Better in the expense um highly recommended. And so if you want to join us for the book club to all of that seven box of months, I think that's a good deal.

And if you join the club, you also have the very good feeling that you're helping us continue to do the programing we love to do, and I hope you love to listen to, uh, I don't pocket any of the money i'm living off my retirement now, uh, which is fine, but I want to make sure that we can pay Anthony and benito and Kevin the whole team. They work so hard and keep the lights on all that stuff. We've cut expenses to the bone ah, but we want to keep doing this.

And in order to do that, we need your help tweet that TV slash club to its only seven box a months. And IT really does make a big difference in the next month before the end of the year, we need at least five thousand more people to sign up for us to survive. So please be one of those five thousand twit that T V slash club tweet.

Thank you everybody. We do this show every sunday, two P M pacific, five P M eastern time. Thanks to the club members, we are able to stream on eight platforms.

Course, it's in the club to the discord, but it's also let me can youtube, twitch, a cake, extra com, linton, facebook and tiktok, eight different platforms. We stream life all all of our shows. We streaming not all them, but most of our shows.

We stream life as we're doing them, and you can watch us live at on all those platforms. After the fact on the main versions of the shows available on our website, tweet that T, V. If you go to tweet that T, V, you will also see a link to the youtube channel for the video for this show, a great way to share clips.

If you saw something you thought, hey, i've really like my my brother and want to see this, you can just clip IT. Youtube makes that very easy. Senator woman is a to promote what we're doing here.

To do IT course. Easy thing for you is probably to subscribe in your favorite podcast client. That way you'll have to get ready to go for your monday morning commute.

Thank you, everybody. We appreciate your your support. Love you having you here, and we will see again next weekend as i've said now for it's going on almost twenty years now.

Another tweet is in the can. oh. Do the two? People are driven by the search for Better, but when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all, don't search, match with, indeed, but hiring process can be slow and overwhelming.

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