The TLDR Interview: Pierre Poilievre, Conservative Party of Canada
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Hey, it's Devin Friedman again. This is the third in our series of conversations with major political parties in advance of Monday's big federal election. We decided that instead of just talking about the election, we wanted to go to the candidates themselves and ask them how they're going to meet one of the most pivotal moments in economic history in recent memory.

The interviews are conducted by Mike Katchen, the CEO and founder of WellSimple and the sponsor of this podcast. And remember, none of these interviews are endorsements. Without further ado, here is the third of Mike's conversations. This one with Pierre Poiliev, leader of the Conservative Party.

You want to flip the switch or how do you prefer? Are we on already? I think we're on already. Okay, well, fun. Let me use that to flip the switch. I'm actually, you know, I've listened with keen interest. You talk about your own personal upbringing, adopted, raised by school teachers, and wondered if there were any interesting money lessons along the way that stood out to you that have informed your views on policy, money in general, that would be relevant and interesting to our base.

Yeah, my mother was very tight with money. We went through some challenging times in the early 80s. We got nailed by the massive stagflation of the time. My folks had to scrimp and save. And I remember one time we went to Penticton to go camping and they had just invented jet skis. And so these rich kids were buzzing around on the lake in a jet ski. And I said, well, dad, you should rent me one of those.

And he said, well, we're not paying a hundred bucks for an hour on that. We'll rent you one of those little pedal boats. And when you get back to Calgary, you can, we can get you some little jobs here and there, and you can save up money. And when you turn 16, we'll let you take the minivan and you can use that money to fill it up with gas. And you can drive back out here on your own and rent yourself a camp space and rent yourself a seat for an hour.

And so, uh, I actually did that and I drove out and I went back to BC and rented myself a seat. But the moral of the story was you gotta work for stuff. There's no freebies. There's no, there's no gifts that fall out of the sky. You gotta earn it. But the, the corollary of that is that if you do work hard, you should get it. And the problem right now is that our kids are

in their 20s are doing nothing but working and they're getting nowhere. They're on a hamster wheel. And I have to say this generation...

is way harder working than we were when I was their age. Like I meet 20 year olds and then they're taking a full course load and they've got 30 hours of shifts as a waiter or a waitress on top of it. Back when I was in my university days, like you might get a part-time job weekends, the odd evening, and then you'd work summers, of course, but having full-time jobs, the full course load was, I'd never heard of that. They're just working nonstop with no light at the end of the tunnel.

And so my purpose is to get them the life they've earned, which is a home, a down payment, a

a life with a family, all the things that their parents took for granted. I want to restore that. Tell me a little bit more about what you're hearing on the campaign trail as it relates to young people and their concerns about buying a home, being able to afford the kind of lifestyle that they've always wanted in Canada. Has there been anything surprising that you've heard in the last couple weeks in particular? I wouldn't say I've been surprised in the last couple of weeks because I've been marinating in the issues of

youth housing, the inflation problems for a long time now. I'd say that the surprise really hit me in about 2021 when the inflation really started to take off and the housing crisis was sparked. Like my wife bought her home when she was 25 and, you know, she had a good job, but she didn't come from a rich family and she got a nice attached home in Ottawa. Like this is the nation's capital and

And a 25-year-old with that job and that background wouldn't even be able to contemplate that today. It is astonishing to me that we have the biggest land mass per capita, I think, in the OECD, which means that land should be abundant and cheap, and yet we have pretty much the most expensive housing. And that is a homegrown problem, which is the result of government goosing demand with

a very loose aggressive money printing and excessive immigration and blocking supply with bureaucracy that holds up permits and stops builders and that combination you know you subsidize demand and then you block supply well you're going to get massive inflation and the people who suffer most are the working class that don't have assets

The youth who haven't had a time to acquire assets and newcomers to the country, because by nature, when they arrive here, they don't own anything. And those are the people who feel most left out and left behind. Housing has clearly been one of the key pillars in each of the party's platforms. And I think you've been very clear about removing taxes, the permitting process. Yeah. I'm curious if you've considered any other models outside of that framework.

Or have you seen any models from other countries that might be inspiring for us to consider that could also accelerate dealing with this housing crisis? You know, I don't think we need a new model. I think we just need to get the bureaucracy out of the way. Bureaucracies in this country have...

grown like a weed. It's astonishing how big and aggressive they've become. Like in Toronto, for example, a third of the cost of a new home in Ontario today is direct taxes. That's sales taxes, development charges, land transfer taxes, et cetera. And then probably another third is the incalculable cost of delays, delays,

consultants, lobbyists, lawyers, accountants, and other things you need just to get permission to build. And so now that given that we know those things are the problems, creating more government programs is not the solution. It's like trying to fight lung cancer with cigarette smoking or fire with gasoline. Government is the problem. It's not the solution. So my practical solutions to take this federal sales tax off are,

new homes under 1.3 million. I'm going to pay the municipalities to reduce their development charges, and I'm going to require they speed up permits as a condition of getting any federal funds, sell off 6,000 federal buildings, thousands of acres of federal land, so that we can build more and faster. And I believe that we will have homes that people can afford for this generation. Why don't we keep going on the economy? How do we deal with the very real risk of Trump

the trade war, a possible recession. What I would do on my first day is say to the president, let's expedite the renegotiation of the Canada-U.S. free trade deal and suspend tariffs in the interim. I think the president's going to come under a lot of pressure domestically as they get closer to midterms. And some might say, well, why would he care? Well, he will care because he won't be able to get things through Congress. So the politics are in our favor to get this thing solved.

And I want to basically say to the Americans, we're going to protect our sovereignty. We're going to end tariffs on both sides of the border.

And by the way, here's what we have to offer. The more you trade with us, the faster we can rebuild our military and unburden you of our defense so we can protect our waters, our skies, our soils against China and Russia and our continent will be safer. So I think that's a great value proposition, which combined with political pressure on the White House will get us a resolution and we can get back to focusing on solving our own problems here at home.

I think most of the crises that we face in Canada are created by our own government. Now, that might sound very pessimistic. Actually, it's very optimistic because if the government is causing the problem, we know how to fix it.

We have to reverse all of the policies that caused these homemade problems. And then we'll see things turn around very quickly. You stop overspending and very quickly your money starts to restore its value. Unleash your resource sector pretty quickly. The paychecks start to pull in. You cut the taxes and building bureaucracy and pretty soon new homes pop up and people can afford to buy them. You lock up the worst criminals and pretty soon your streets are a lot safer.

When I think about government, it's hard to get things done. Yeah. I'm curious if you have thoughts on the difference between a good policy idea and then how to actually get it into practice and execute on it from there. I think we've gotten too polite in Canada. And what happens is that a lot of interests get their claws into the bureaucracy, and then the bureaucracy decides to block the idea for moving forward.

And then it spins in circles and there are committees that write reports and reports about reports and then discussions about the reports. You need a bulldog at the head of each department who's going to say, this is what we are going to do and I want it on my desk. I remember in the Harper government, we had the great global recession and our infrastructure minister said, we got to build stuff real quick to get our people working.

And he said, I want a one-page application form for municipal infrastructure projects. And they said, minister, minister, it's 500 pages now. We can't get it down to a page. He said, one page. They came back. It was 300 pages. He said, one page. They came back. And minister, you'll be thrilled. We got it down to 75 pages. He said, one page. Finally, they brought one page. And then he said, I want one environmental review. They said, oh, you know, there's going to be species that will be destroyed and water will be

contaminated. He said, no, I want you to protect the species and the water, and I want you to do it with one environmental review. Well, the end result was that we got 23,500 projects completed in two years, and the environment commissioner who did an audit afterward could not find a single environmental problem. It took a minister who was a bulldog. He just would not take no for an answer. And he made it clear to the bureaucrats that he would be such a nuisance to them

that it wasn't worth them slowing him down. And I know it doesn't sound pretty, but that is the kind of approach that actually gets you over the finish line. You know, Wellsimple works in the innovation economy, which is, I would argue, too small in Canada. Talk a little bit about the innovation economy and ideas you have to foster more innovation here at home. So I think the problem with the model we have today is that this is Canada's great place to take money and a terrible place to make money.

So when you either graduate to a point where you're making a lot of money yourself or your IP is profitable,

well you don't want to stay in canada because you're paying 53 marginal tax rates your business is paying very high tax on investment and on earnings so what happens as soon as canada develops ip that is profitable then the owners say well let's let's shop it around and it goes to ireland or the us or singapore switzerland or some other place with significantly lower taxes

And then Canada only gets the losing part of the life cycle. So I want to make it a winning proposition for the brightest minds and the best technology to stay here when they're making money. I have something called the Canada First Reinvestment Tax Cut. It's simple. You reinvest

In Canada, you pay no capital gains tax. And as long as you keep reinvesting in Canada, it's capital gains tax free. Now, when you decide to cash out one day, then you'll obviously pay tax on the full freight. The government will get more just later, a lot more, because...

they'll get the same share of a much larger pie. Compounding is a pretty powerful. Exactly. And so there's a cost of money to the government, but in the long run, a net benefit to everyone because you're, so you think about a tech company, well, they sell out. Now they say, okay, now we're selling. Where are we going to redeploy our capital? If we take it to the States, well, we got to pay capital gains tax on the way out the door.

But if we reinvest in Kitchener-Waterloo, then we get a full capital gains tax deferral. So now you've got this massive incentive to roll capital over and over and over and over. And that means machines, technologies, inventions.

will continue to crop up and will be a much richer and more productive place. And I think like when your wealth simple clients are, you know, they say they sell a position, maybe they're locked into a sleepy old position they don't really like. A lot of Canadians stuck in high fee mutual funds, for example, that have been sitting on legacy capital gains for years. And this will say, this will allow them, this will have two effects. One, they'll know they can sell that position and

Without paying capital gains tax, but they'll only be able to get that deferral if they're investing in Canada. So it will inject more capital in our economy, which is exactly what we need now.

Another topic our clients care a lot about is, you know, competition in financial services. When we launched the business 10 years ago, to open an investment account in Canada, you needed a fax machine or mail to actually get it open. It took months to make it happen. Talk to us a little bit about fostering competition in financial services. I know you've been supportive of things like open banking. Yeah. Tell us about your thoughts on this. I think it needs to be a lot easier to move your assets between financial institutions and

You know, I've heard stories of people just trying to move from one traditional financial institution to another. And it's just months of jerking around and waiting, you know, broken telephone of this bank says, well, we were seeking for approval from the other bank and we need another form. And they say they're going to they need a form. And what they're ultimately doing is just ensuring that it's just very too much hassle for.

They wear you down. And so open banking is one of the simple ways to allow people to move their assets to other new financial institutions that will drive competition. And that's what we need because I think the banking sector in Canada today has become overly focused on competition.

just government-backed mortgages. That's where their bread and butter is. The government backs the mortgage, so it's a risk-free proposition. They don't have to make bold loans to fund a new startup that's going to make a great new invention.

And the only way to change that is to open the market up to more competition, more ferocious free enterprise for inventors, discoverers, innovators, and creators. And that is going to take a greater degree of competition in the financial sector, which I'm glad to see that you've introduced.

I want to pick up on your thread around talent and entrepreneurship. Yeah. I mean, I read a sobering stat not too long ago that there are 100,000 fewer entrepreneurs in Canada today than 20 years ago. Wow. And when we talk about this economic crisis and the productivity loss that we've had,

entrepreneurship and building our way out of it is really the only antidote that I know of. You talked about a tax regime to create the conditions to keep the best and brightest here. What else do you think we ought to be doing as a country to inspire people to build great companies here in Canada? I think we need a culture that rewards risk-taking. It's clear what the downside is when you start a new venture. You could lose your shirt.

But it's not entirely clear what the upside is. You know, if you do break through, well, you're going to get nailed with very high taxes in Canada.

you know, you're going to be looked down upon as some kind of villain because you've been successful. And so why would people take the risk? I think we need to change, obviously, the tax system, but also the culture. Let's honor entrepreneurs and small businesses for the economic heroes that they are. And maybe you can leave us with your vision for Canada. You know, as an entrepreneur that grew up here, but then moved to the States for a few years and came back to build businesses

my company here in Canada, build my family here in Canada. It's been a hard time to look at just the direction that our country has been going, economically stagnating. Also questioning our place in the world. Yeah. And trying to think about how will I talk to my kids about an inspiring vision for a Canada they'll want to make their homes in and build their lives in. Tell us a little bit about what that would look like for you. Well, it looks like you, really. Your story of...

a 12-year-old who won a stock picking contest and then turned it into one of the biggest entrepreneurial success stories in Canada.

That's the story. That's it. That's what I want the country to look like. It doesn't have to be finance, but I want it to be the kid, you know, the seven-year-old kid in an indigenous community who tells his dad that he wants to cure cancer, and 40 years later he does it. Or the kid that grows up and says, Mom, I want to start my own business one day and have 500 employees. And Mom says, well, here's your $10 loan. Start with the lemonade stand. And what do you know?

He grows up to be that great business leader. That's the Canadian promise. I think it's better than the American dream. A dream is something you wake up from and it's not always real. But the Canadian promise was a very simple contract. You work hard, you get a great life. And that doesn't matter where you start. You can start it right at the bottom. You can climb right to the top as long as you work at it.

And that's the country that I want to restore. I mean, I guess my final point would be is if you want that future, you want a brighter future, you have to get out and vote. If you don't vote, your view doesn't count, literally doesn't count. When they're counting the ballot, you're not there being counted. So get out and vote. It takes 10 minutes of your time. Vote.

Vote, vote, vote and do it right now. Well, thank you so much for taking some time to be with us and good luck with the last final push. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. Great to be with you.

That is it for our special week. This show was sponsored by Well Simple. It is made by me, Devin Friedman, with Matilde Erfolino, Lea Fetter, Jared Sullivan, Juanita Leon, Tom Johnson, Eva Cruz, research and fact-checking by Brennan Doherty, theme music by Andy Huckvale, engineering this week by Emma Munger, Stuart Gilmore, and Matt Van Engelen. Special thanks to our sponsors,

for this extra special politics episode. Go to Jess Oliver, Christine Robson, Lauren Hollywood, Diana McLaughlin, and Cheryl So. Extra special thanks to our interviewer, Mike Ketchin.

The TLDR podcast is offered by Wealthsimple Media Incorporated and is for informational purposes only. The content in the TLDR podcast is not investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell assets or securities, and does not represent the views of Wealthsimple Financial Corporation or any of its other subsidiaries or affiliates. Wealthsimple Media Incorporated does not endorse any third-party views referencing this content. More information at wealthsimple.com slash TLDR.