We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Sugar daddies and mommies

Sugar daddies and mommies

2025/2/21
logo of podcast Today, Explained

Today, Explained

AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript
People
M
Madeline Leung Coleman
T
Talman Joseph Smith
匿名人士
Topics
匿名人士:我的父母为我的生活提供了大量的经济支持,包括购房和生活开销。这让我在纽约这样高消费的城市得以生存,但也让我感到一些羞愧和不安。我意识到我的生活水平并非完全依靠自身努力获得,这让我对自己的社会阶层感到困惑。 Madeline Leung Coleman:在纽约,许多年轻人依靠父母的经济资助才能维持生计。这种现象普遍存在,并引发了社会上对阶级差异和经济不平等的讨论。许多接受资助的年轻人既感激父母的帮助,又为此感到羞愧和不安,因为他们觉得自己无法完全独立地承担生活成本。这种现象也反映了纽约高昂的生活成本和激烈的竞争环境。 Talman Joseph Smith:美国正在经历一场史无前例的财富转移,巨额财富从婴儿潮一代转移到他们的子女手中。这加剧了社会经济不平等,对经济和社会稳定带来潜在影响。财富主要集中在少数富裕家庭手中,种族差异也十分明显。这场财富转移可能导致通货膨胀,并对社会流动性和经济公平带来挑战。我们需要关注这场财富转移对社会的影响,并思考如何构建一个更公平、更可持续的经济体系。

Deep Dive

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

We talk about it in whispers. Hey, my name, I'm not going to say it. I would like to remain anonymous if any of this is being used. Hi, I would like to stay anonymous. And my parents did recently buy me a house.

We inquire about it gently. How can you afford this neighborhood or that school? My dad used to pay off my credit card every month up until pretty recently. My parents did pay for my rent. They paid for some of my credit card bills, kind of my emergency money. Groceries as well. I am in my mid-20s. I've received about $1.3 million over the course of 14 years.

We are living through the great wealth transfer. Her friends call her getting money from your parents. Trillions of dollars are flowing from baby boomers to their adult kids and upending American norms and housing prices. Ahead on Today Explained. You think you know what working on your wellness sounds like. But there's one thing that truly sounds like the best thing you can do for your overall wellness.

Every great performance starts with a great night's sleep. And every great night's sleep starts with Natrol, the number one drug-free sleep aid brand in America. 100% drug-free and non-habit forming. Get yours now at Target or wherever you shop. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Whatever you look for in a getaway, you can find it at Virginia Beach. When you're there, you'll be able to enjoy some of the best cultural attractions, activities, and culinary experiences the world has to offer. You could take a stroll on the world's longest pleasure beach that travels for miles and miles. Or you could take part in their annual festivals, concerts, and waterfront dining. And if you're in the mood for dinner, make sure to check out their fresh local seafood with farm-to-table ingredients.

It's a trip that everyone in the family will remember for a lifetime. Go to visitvirginiabeach.com to learn more. You're listening to Today Explained. My name is Madeline Leung Coleman, and I'm a features writer for New York Magazine. Madeline and her colleagues recently put together a package of stories on one of New York City's biggest open secrets.

something that everybody in New York City is aware of and definitely are talking to their friends about, which is the sheer number of people in New York City who are subsidized in some way by their parents. What are some of the obvious tells? I think the most obvious tell and the thing that many people are familiar with living in New York City is when

someone suddenly buys an apartment. And it's often someone who you might feel that you're kind of on the same track with. Like, you have a pretty good idea of how far the salary that they make would actually go because you know from your own experience of how far it doesn't go. And then all of a sudden, your friend tells you that they're looking to buy. And it's like, what? It's surprising the first time. And then after that, you start to just be like, okay, here we go.

We did a series of 14 interviews with people whose parents are giving their money in some way. And that's ranging from paying for down payments to paying for child care to, you know, an allowance that's coming in every month. And the editors who are leading the charge on this were Paola Ceves and Julia Edelstein, with some help from some freelance reporters as well. And what they found was, first of all,

First of all, that many more women were willing to open up about the money that they were getting, which I thought was fascinating. But some of the stories that stuck with me included the one about a woman who works as a teacher. Her husband works in finance and they live in Murray Hill. And her real estate journey started when her parents bought her a studio apartment at age 24. And that...

led to her eventually being able to buy a two-bedroom apartment in Manhattan with her partner. You know, she's had so much help, but she's very confused about what class she belongs to. She says, I can't tell. Am I a trust fund kid or am I middle class? I don't even know what middle class is in Manhattan.

I remember living in New York for about a decade and seeing this vividly. And to be honest, because I'm kind of a busybody, I would very politely try to figure out like, oh, hey, girl, what's going on? Why do you think we get so curious about this? Like, what's the impulse behind wanting to know? I think part of it is...

class resentment. But at least we can laugh about it. Yeah, part of it is class resentment. Part of it is everyone's own struggles to figure out how to make it in a city that is so expensive and so hostile to people who are not extremely wealthy. And so if you know someone who, you know, by the way, you love them, you know, they're your good friend a lot of the time when you're having these questions go through your head. And you just want to know

Why is it that they're able to be in this situation when other people you know are not? So as you were looking for themes in your reporting, what are some of the ways that boomer parents are helping their adult kids in New York? Finding a place to live is the biggest one. And it isn't just about buying. It's also about renting.

Landlords demand that you make an income that is usually about 40 times the monthly rent, which is crazy and doesn't actually indicate anything about what you can afford. But as a result, a lot of people can't prove that, so they need to get a guarantor. That will often be a parent. I would not have been able to get the apartment I have in the city, even making almost 200K without my mother as a guarantor. I truly want

If you don't have a parent who makes that much, then you're kind of out of luck.

that are my age had help from their parents in Subway. And at the same time, salaries obviously have not increased to anywhere near what they would need to to cover this kind of thing, especially when you're just starting out. But then it really goes all the way through life of the generations we're talking about. So we spoke to people who are in Gen X through Gen Z. And, you know, even the people who are in their 40s or even in their early 50s

They say that they have to rely on their parents to help them pay for daycare. Or if their kids need to go to a specialty private school, then their parents will help them pay for that. I have three children and they are all able to attend a private school.

with help from my parents for their tuition, and we get a lot of help from them. It could be covering the space between when you lose your job and when you get a new job. I just was recently laid off. If I need rent money next month because, of course, I was laid off, I know that I will be able to get it from them. That money is what has led me to be able to actually not want to pull my hair out.

I like to think that if my mom was like, oh, I'm going to put a down payment on a house for you in New York, an apartment in New York for you, I would just be thrilled. I would just walk around on a cloud and be like, I'm so damn lucky. And yet the emotions that you describe in your reporting and some of the emotions that we heard, in fact, many of them, when we asked our listeners to reach out and tell us what they'd experienced, they're not walking around on a cloud.

Hey, my name, I'm not going to say it, but I am getting money from my parents. They definitely support me with most of my lifestyle, including groceries, kind of everything, to be honest. It is a little bit like...

Not embarrassing, but I guess like, well, maybe a little bit. I actually asked him three different times, stop sending me the money because I felt...

guilty about it. Guilt and shame are definitely the through line, but they emerge in ways that are kind of surprising. You might think that it only would be that people feel guilty that they have more than others or that they're ashamed because they think it makes them part of some kind of reviled class of some kind. But a lot of it is really just because people are ashamed that they can't afford everything they have on their own. Kind of like sad that...

I feel like I can't, you know, afford my lifestyle. I mean, I have a master's. I thought that it would be a lot easier to,

It's actually about that old thing of American individualism and the idea that if you can't buy an apartment on your own, then maybe somehow you're less of an adult. Or if you can't pay for your kids' school, your daycare on your own, like you may be kind of messed up somewhere, like you took a wrong turn along the way. There's a few people who talk about feeling like they were middle class for their entire lives, but I don't think that's true.

But then as soon as they were adults and trying to make decisions that were really expensive, their parents suddenly were like, you know what, we can help you with that. And those people seem kind of gobsmacked at their good luck, honestly, and quite grateful, but also maybe embarrassed because they're now having to adjust to a class position that they didn't grow up thinking they were in. When you talk to people about what social class they were in, did you find something

Did you hear pushback? Everybody thinks they're middle class. Everybody thinks they're middle class. Yes. And that could mean someone who owns their apartment in Manhattan. That could be somebody who is living in the outer boroughs, but they are paying their rent every month, you know, and they're like they're not behind. They're not drowning in debt like that could mean middle class. You could also be drowning in debt and feel middle class.

You know, like we hear that the middle class is being squeezed. It's absolutely true. As I was doing research for this story, I found that apparently the median income for a millennial in New York City is $59,000. $59,000. Correct. So half of the millennials in New York are making under $59,000. Half are making over $59,000. That's right. Oh, wow.

So there's always going to be a question of what most people have and what most people are doing. Has New York City become the kind of place where you can't survive there unless your parents are giving you money? Is it necessary to have this, this kind of help? So I think it's important to say that you can survive here without your parents giving you that money. However, you won't necessarily be what we might call economically secure here.

But we know for sure that there are many New Yorkers who live here living below the poverty line. In fact, it's almost a quarter of New Yorkers. The poverty rate in New York is about twice what it is nationally. And that won't be a surprise to anybody who lives here. But I think it's also important to say that a lot of people are just getting by. Like, yes, they might be paying their rent. They're buying groceries.

Basically. Not eggs, obviously, because who can afford them? But they're buying other things.

You know, a lot of people are living, but they're not making savings. Okay? Like, they're not getting on stable footing. If they were to have some kind of health emergency, they would be in trouble. You know, if something happened to their apartment, let's say they live in a basement apartment that gets flooded during one of those flash floods that happen increasingly, and they don't have renter's insurance, like,

They've got nothing to help them deal with that kind of thing. There's also plenty of New Yorkers who are living at that point and then being helped by their parents to push them over it, you know, and I think that's really what we're talking about here. ♪

Because a lot of the people who are getting help by their parents aren't living extravagantly. A lot of them are living what appears to be a pretty normal life by the standards of what we previously considered to look like middle classness, right? Like they have stable housing. They have a, you know, what we might call a normal job. But for whatever reason...

They just don't have the concerns of their peers. Like they're able to take vacations, they're able to send their kids to a private school, whatever. The difference is not usually just between not having anything or living in like, you know, a luxury apartment on the Upper East Side. It's more about are you able to live without being afraid about money day to day?

Madeline Leung Coleman. She's a features writer for New York Magazine. Coming up, it is not just New York City. The trillions of dollars are flying all over America. Who's getting what? Support for today explained comes from Adio. Adio, as you know now, is an AI native CRM built specifically for the next era of companies. Is that your company?

They say it's extremely powerful, just like your company may be. It can adapt to your unique data structures and scales with any business model. Setting up Adio takes less than a minute, they say. And in seconds of syncing your emails and calendar, you'll see all your relationships in a fully fledged platform, all enriched with actionable data.

You can go to adio.com slash today explained and you'll get 15% off your first year. If you're wondering, hey, how do you spell Adio, Sean? Well, A-T-T-I-O dot com slash today explained. Wishing you all the best in your journey.

Thank you.

or more complex. That's where Vanta comes in. Businesses use Vanta to establish trust by automating compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SOC 2 and ISO 27001, centralized security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk.

Vanta not only saves you time, it can also save you money. A new IDC white paper found that Vanta customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits, and the platform pays for itself in just three months. You can join over 9,000 global companies like Atlassian, Quora, and Factory who use Vanta to manage risk and prove security in real time.

For a limited time, our audience gets $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com slash vox. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash vox for $1,000 off. Support for this show comes from Oracle.

Even if you think it's a bit overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere. From self-driving cars to molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast. But AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete without costs spiraling out of control? Time to upgrade to the next generation of the Cloud.

Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI. OCI is a blazing fast and secure platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, plus all your AI and machine learning workloads. OCI costs 50% less for compute and 80% less for networking, so you're saving a pile of money. Thousands of businesses have already upgraded to OCI, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters, and Suno AI.

Right now, Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to OCI. For new U.S. customers with minimum financial commitment, offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this special offer at oracle.com slash vox. That's oracle.com slash vox. The eldest boy! I am the eldest boy! You're today exclaimed!

My dad recently decided that he wanted to start giving me my inheritance early. So he gives me and my sister about 18K every year now because that's the most money you can gift someone without it being taxed. They...

helped me buy my first car and my first house. But really, the most important thing they did was to pay for my college and my master's degree. I don't know how people with college debt do it. And they offered to just pay that $80,000 I had in debt just to make the bankruptcy go away. It was just like a shrug of the shoulder of like, yeah, sure, why not?

I'm Noelle King with friend of the show Talman Joseph Smith. Tal was early to the story of the great wealth transfer. He's an economics reporter for The New York Times. And a while back, he wrote this viral piece where he laid out that we're living through a decade in which $16 trillion, trillion with a T, will pass from the boomers to their children and grandkids.

Rich people and their rich kids will be giving and receiving a vast majority of these riches, these trillions that we're talking about. That's everybody from the sort of succession level rich, the top 0.1 percent, down to kids of what I call normie affluent families. So, you know, the kids of doctors and lawyers or engineers in nice suburbs or big cities who –

Uri and everybody else in our listeners may have gone to school with or we may be them ourselves. But to show just how tippy top the concentration of wealth is in America, the top 1% is the vast majority of the money flow. They hold about as much wealth as the bottom 90%. It feels wrong to be willing to accept down payment money or willing to accept money

Why only?

Why are the baby boomers so rich? Where does all this money come from? So mainly through stocks and real estate. So the average price of U.S. house has risen about 500 percent since 1983, which is when a lot of boomers bought into the market and when we had a much, much greater housing supply. And in the meantime, they've been able to see those assets increase and draw on them for various forms of borrowing and often cashing out. The stock market

Okay, so if you have spent the past 40 years as an adult, you bought a house for seven raspberries and now it's worth $3 million. You can sell it or you can borrow against it. And also, if you put money into the stock market in the 1980s, it's going to be $3 million.

It again, your return has been incredible, especially compared to, you know, what we think of in the last decade or so when the market has also been good. We should note. Yes. So let me ask you, we're saying boomers broadly here, but it makes me well, I know personally, it's not all boomers. Love you, mom. Which boomers are able to give to their kids? Is this like the one percent that we're talking about? Yeah. So it's mostly boomers.

the top 10 and top 1%. And of course, the top 1% encapsulates top 10%. That's where the vast majority of this is. All right. So the boomers who are giving inheritances, who are part of the $16 trillion transfer, are in the top 10% in America. And that would mean, I'm guessing, that demographically,

they have one big thing in common. Yes, they are. What are the demographics here? Yeah, yeah. They are disproportionately white. The vast majority of the wealth transfer will be contained within white families. But deep focus on race in this transfer can sometimes distract people from class really being white.

an equally, if not more stark story here. To put it simply, most rich people are white, but most white people are not rich. And when you think of the plurality of working class and poor people in this country, they're white. So there's a lot of nuance.

What are the implications of all this? Some chunk of younger Americans are getting a lot of money from some chunk of older Americans. And we should care about that. Why? There's that old saying, right, of the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. And that has been true at times in America.

But in the past decade, it's actually not been. The poor, much less poor in some cases, the hot labor market just before the pandemic and right after it, for example, helped boost incomes across the board a lot. But the thing is, the issue is the rich have gotten richer, much, much richer, tens of trillions of dollars richer.

And that has enabled them to manage a higher cost of living, higher home prices, and so on. All the things that people get frustrated by. Housing, rent, healthcare, childcare, eldercare. All those things are easier to manage if you have passive forms of income heading your way. Often through, you know, no work of your own. Not that that's something to be ashamed of, but it's just a fact of life. And...

There's a real question of how sustainable that is for our economy. That when the upper middle class and the sort of normie professional affluent can no longer swing it, when being sandwiched between feeling like you can't afford kids or having kids and it being a real challenge to give them all that they want and need, while also realizing that you're going to have to take care of your parents. Is that pressure cooker working?

ramps and ramps and ramps up. Presumably there's some point at which the political winds will change and that very important cohort of the top fifth of the population, the top decile, will say, OK, we need a reset here so that more people can swing it and feel upward mobility in their and their families' lives. Jill Biden got slammed for releasing almost $2 trillion into the economy over a couple of years and causing inflation, right?

If $1.6 trillion is being transferred a year for the next 10, getting us to $16 trillion, is this actually inflationary? I'd say yes and no. No in the sense that the rich do not have a high marginal propensity to spend.

Which is economic speak for saying rich people tend to save and invest most of their extra money. Yeah. So it's not the velocity of it isn't constantly flowing as much as people living paycheck to paycheck who do and in some ways must spend the money as soon as they get it. So there's that. But yes, also, it could be a little bit inflationary because the class of rich

very well-to-do people in this country is growing substantially. And we're already seeing in economic data, just within the past year, when inflation is really back to relatively calm levels, the rich may be becoming more price insensitive because of how rich they are. Meaning, in real terms, that

You know, the family goes on vacation and it's like, God, these margaritas at the bar are expensive. Or, God, the kids' swimsuits cost this much now. And on and on and on. Or the plane tickets cost this much now. Or then what do the rich in America do? You complain about it, but you still purchase it. You pay, yeah. Whether it's a product or a service. And that has a lot of economists, of all stripes, a little bit worried. A couple people have pointed out that

You can't really blame people for passing money on to their children, right? This is the way it's always worked from time immemorial. You get stuff and you give it to your kids, maybe just your sons, maybe just your first son. But like this is how life works. So why is now the time to pay attention to this? Is it just for fun because it's kind of fun to talk about or are there real reasons to be watching very carefully as this happens? Yeah.

I mean, I think we all love a little bit to gawk at wealth. Oh, yes. It's an American pastime. I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, I've been lucky enough to have a few stories that have gone viral. And, you know, this one kind of blew things out of the water. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's important because both economically and morally, what does it mean for a nation to have $200 trillion in wealth?

and for there to still be so much self-reported need and for people to be so frustrated. I think a lot of people are fairly asking, is it not possible for us to, even if we can't solve inequality, for us to raise the baseline standard of living for a greater amount of people without

risking the things that we love about the dynamism in our economy and ambition in our economy, we'll find ourselves going back to this question of how almost immeasurably richer we are than our ancestors. And yet we're still struggling with some of the same sort of problems.

Talman Joseph Smith, New York Times. Tal's writing 2026's most hotly anticipated by me book, Clout and Capital. Victoria Chamberlain and Devin Schwartz produced today's show. Jolie Myers edited. Laura Bullard checked the facts. And Patrick Boyd is our engineer. Here's what else you need to know today. On Sunday, March 9th,

You'll be getting a treat in this feed. Explain It To Me, hosted by Jonquil and Hill, will be dropping now every Sunday. Hey, JQ. Hey, Noelle. Tell me about Explain It To Me. Okay, so the show is really centered around questions from listeners. You call in about things that matter to you. You know, maybe it's how to save for retirement or how to make friends or whether or not now is the right time to buy a house. Then we talk to experts and bring you the answers you need.

What's coming on March 9th? Okay. So next Sunday for our first episode we're sharing in the Today Explained feed, we'll be talking about men and dating. We actually got a call from a listener who's struggling to get a date. You know. Girl. The struggle.

I don't have to tell you. You know, the rules of romance have changed and some guys are having trouble keeping up. We also have an episode around the corner about women. We'll be talking about Gen X women in sex. You know, Gen Xers are out here getting some. We've seen it on Baby Girl. We've seen it all types of places. And, you know, we're wondering if the media has something to do with that. Gen X ladies, is any of this impacting your sex life? What's going on over there?

And how do people reach you? We have a hotline. Just call 1-800-618-8545 or send a voice memo to askvox at vox.com. Explain It To Me will be right here in the Today Explained feed every Sunday starting March 9th. Catch us here. You think you know what working on your wellness sounds like. But there's one thing that truly sounds like the best thing you can do for your overall wellness.

Every great performance starts with a great night's sleep. And every great night's sleep starts with Natrol, the number one drug-free sleep aid brand in America. 100% drug-free and non-habit forming. Get yours now at Target or wherever you shop. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. This week on Unexplainable and Explain It To Me, we're unraveling the mysteries of sleep.

On Unexplainable, why do we twitch in our sleep? Neuroscientist Mark Blumberg explains how small involuntary movements might be shifting our understanding of the brain and the body. And on Explain It To Me, we're answering some big sleep questions, yours and ours. Why do some people suffer from sleep paralysis? Is it better to be a night owl or an early bird?

And seriously, are naps actually good for you? Find out what's keeping you up at night in our cross-show deep dive, a special series on the science of sleep presented by Natral. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts.