The Changing Face of Nashville's Music Row :: Ep 54 Try That in a Small Town
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The Try That in a Small Town podcast is powered by eSpaces. Redefining co-working. Exceptional office space for every business. At eSpaces, we offer more than just office space. We provide premium private offices designed for focus and growth. Located in the heart of Music Row, our fully furnished offices, private suites, meeting rooms, and podcast studio give you the perfect space to work, create, and

and connect. Ready to elevate your business? Book a tour today at eSpaces.com. You know, you walked around the building and everybody's like, hey, how's it going? You know, and you're turning in songs, you're going to drink coffee, it's just different. The building's not even there. You've got these little high-rises and stuff. Spontaneous? Pretty much. That's amazing. How do we not know this? After a demo session, we tracked five songs. No kidding. I did vocals on five songs and harmonies.

and let's go get married. So we did. Some city, somebody fell off something comparable and got hit. It was here? Yeah. Got hit by an oncoming Uber. But they were so drunk, they just walked it off. Really? I don't know. Something happened here. They fell backwards off the stool. No surprise. They're pedaling on Broadway, hammered. People don't listen the same anymore. A lot of it is because they don't have the physical experience

CD. They're not looking at it. They don't own it. They own it, but they don't. It's, it's, it's just different. The Try That in a Small Town Podcast begins now. All right. And we're back with another episode of the Try That in a Small Town Podcast. Do not adjust your sets. We are still coming to you from the Patriot Mobile Studios.com.

At this time, it's powered by eSpaces. We're down here at the awesome eSpaces down on Music Row. Yes. Where is it? 17 and Grand? That's where we're at. Are we supposed to disclose the address? We just did, I guess. We just did. Well, I mean, how are they going to see the office space unless they know where to go? We're on the ninth floor. Yeah, good point. We'll be out of here by the time this episode is over. And there's a...

There's a painting of me on the wall in here. Really? Is it naked? No, it's not. It's on the mural. I made the mural out here. Really? Yeah. That's amazing. I've never seen that one before. Yeah. I'm sitting on a bucket. Uh-huh. I've seen that. I don't know whether to feel. I'm writing a song beneath all the naked snake people in the roundabout.

Who else is in the mural? I think Stapleton's in the mural. Okay. George Strait. Oh, good company. I think T.G. Shepard's in the mural. Who'd you say? T.G. Perry. Yeah.

You know, she just went to space, apparently. She really did. I thought she was already there. But you'd think we set that up. You know it. Tully's got new tattoos. I do. How do you have any more room? I thought they looked a little slicker. You had a little Vaseline on there. Is that just in case somebody rubs past you in a fight or something? It's new, Kalo. You've got to keep it moist. You're out of room on the arms. I am. It was actually a little birthday present I got for myself.

Those are the best kind, by the way. How old are you? Just turned 50. It was a big one. It was a big one. It was a big one. I think he kept it under wraps, man. We didn't have a chance to party with him. Too busy for birthdays. Well, we did text him.

Yeah, but I didn't know it was 50. I didn't either. I did not know it was 50. I found out after the fact. 50 and still have hair like that? Dude, celebrate. Thank you, Kalo. Thank you, buddy. You bet. No, 50, it is. I moved here when I was 21. This is crazy. How long? I was 21 when I moved here. Oh, my God. Why'd you say that? It was before the naked people on the roundabout in Music Row. No, I thought about that driving up here. I was like, wow.

I come to Music Row every day for work, but doing our podcast from here, I'm like, interesting. I just turned 50, doing this from the East Bay spot, which is great. Driving up to Mumbren and how much it's changed. Oh, my gosh. And how much I miss it, how it used to be. I harp on that every episode, I feel like. But I really do miss the way it felt before.

Before the madness that is now Music Row, which I don't even consider it Music Row anymore. Well, tell people, because there's a lot of people that haven't been here before.

Kalo, you'd be the perfect person to tell everybody what music row used to be like on these couple streets here. Am I perfect because I'm oldest? No, you're not the oldest. You're just the most eloquent. I was taking the bullet, Neil. I was taking the bullet. No, but you're right. Back in the day, I wrote at EMI, which EMI was one of the biggest publishers in the world. Now EMI, they sold to...

so many years ago, you know, that whole building is gone, you know, and for a minute at all of our publisher companies, you, you are the, you are the writer, you know, for, for a minute, you're, you're the person, you know, and, uh,

you say the gap there's so many uh hit songwriter girls here too but like uh you know you walked around the building and everybody's like hey how's it going you know and i'm turning in songs you're going to drink coffee just different the building's not even there you got these little high rises and stuff and then but i thought about an idea actually um because obviously we're veteran you know seasoned songwriters we'll say right so and you said we were talking about like hey what are we going to talk about today like this like a couple hours before the show and and telly said hey let's talk about music grow a little bit and

And then it made me start thinking about, because the way that it's changed,

and i thought of a song idea if you're a songwriter out there don't listen this part something like because it's all relative like if you're a songwriter now like this is what music girl looks like to you right but it looked like a different different to us so when it starts changing to the younger guys so i was thinking about an idea something like when music grow don't look like music grow maybe it's time for you to go home well that's other people take you know what i mean like it's kind of a kind of a thing

And we miss it, but the people that are just moving here, they're like, oh, my God, this is freaking Musero. Well, what's funny is you said that, and I was pulling off the membrane. It used to be beautiful. You pull off the membrane, the stop sign, and there was Deja Vu. Yeah. Strip club in all its glory right there. You remember what the marquee would always say? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like three ugly ones. Three ugly girls and one pretty one. Yeah.

lunch at noon, you know, buffet. But I'm like, gross. Same thing happened. I pull up to the stop sign and I'm out. And every day, you know, we go to the office at BMG and I go the same way, but for some reason today felt different. I think so. I was driving in different time of day and I pulled up there. I'm like, you know what? I had a sign. I mean, what it was, you know, you know, you know,

That was the idea. It was like, you know, I don't hate what it is, but I sure miss what it was. I know. That kind of thought. I really do, and I miss the excitement of just everybody running around with songs, physical songs, CDs or tapes. Now people, when they pitch a song to an artist now, they text it or email it, and I feel like it never really gets delivered.

Well, there's an excuse for it to not be delivered. Yeah, we don't keep an actual pitch log. But we don't want to tell you guys about the songs that people don't like. We just want to tell you about the things that, well, we'd kind of like to know you're pitching something. But to expand on that, like all the business was done on these two streets. Every house, there's like houses, and every house was either a publishing company or a studio lined with 16th Avenue and 17th Avenue. So, yeah, you just walked across the street or you just walked down the block and

And that's what you did. Like literally every house or building was either a publishing house or a studio. Now, what's the percentage of that? I don't know. I don't know. Like most people moved off the row. Yeah. And if it is, if one of the old houses still is there, it's most likely not a publishing house.

It's a hair salon or a beard trimming place. Yeah, you're right. Anyway, nothing wrong with that. We've had a couple of guests on that were talking about the old Shawnee's Inn down on the beach. Oh, yeah. I used to eat there. And me and my wife, Lana, have a lot of memories from Shawnee's Inn. I bet you do. Really? Yes.

Because they had the hotel right behind it. You could... They did. You can take a story, Sal. You could go eat. Yeah, you could. And you could take a break from all this marital sex. And then go to get the salad bar, all you can eat. This was before we were married.

and you remember there was like open like a huge open parking lot oh yeah that's where everybody everybody met the bus there yeah everybody you know that's where we did we were doing radio tour we we actually met the minivan there on de montbrin it was like the george jones wax museum remember it was barbara mandrell it was you know you go to the end of it and like 16th avenue cafe was there yeah and it was a great music vibe and that's what i miss about it now

I don't get the feeling that we're heading to Music Row driving to Music Row anymore, which it's, you know. Well, I'm old now. The young crowd that comes through and tours and gets on the tour buses and stuff and goes up and down, they'll never know what it was like. There wasn't one tall building except for, I mean, what's that building that's kind of shaped like an octagonal building? What's it called? The Fisile Building? Yeah.

The UA Tower? Oh, the UA Tower, yeah. That was the only big, tall building on Music Row. The rest of it was old houses. They had one little, it was, I don't know, you get fried rice and stuff down there in the whole building, all the way up the top. The UA Tower? Yeah, the UA Tower. Oh, my God. We had a chance to buy some of those houses. Like, we could have bought them back in the day.

like in the late 90s and early 2000s dude all those houses were up for sale and it was you know they were cheap you wouldn't be here right now you'd imagine if we'd have like gone ahead and done it oh yeah you'd be in the caribbean powered by thrash spaces and and neil you you met your wife lana on music row y'all ate at shoney's music row y'all stayed at

At the hotel. No. Never stayed at the hotel. And you got married on Music Row. You didn't venture far from home. Did you really? Oh, yeah. She had a condo on 17th, 19th, 19th and Grand is what it was. Yeah, on 19th. And we would be standing on her balcony looking down at the Music Row wedding chapel, that little white. Oh.

church-shaped house. Oh my gosh, yes. And we'd make fun of people that got married. It's like, can you believe that? What losers. I mean, well, it was so, it was so Elvis-y, Vegas-y, you know, and it was just so cheesy to us. And we were looking down going, and then lo and behold, after a demo session, we got married there. 90 bucks and a drunk preacher. Spontaneous? Spontaneous.

pretty much that's amazing i don't know this after a demo session we we tracked five songs i did vocals on five songs and harmonies and let's go get married so we did see that's a good wife that's a good wife yeah we called a few people to come down and witness and we got married at the music girl wedding chapel invited the engineer go with you yeah he was in the he was in the wedding picture actually

That is classic. Had to have a witness. You know, another thing you see coming in, which can we all agree, the most ridiculous thing, the pedal tavern things. Dude, that's big business. The bachelorette part of it. And they're pedaling, drinking and pedaling this bucket of wood down Broadway. I mean, somehow. It's kind of exciting, though. Yeah, it turned into the bachelorette. How is that –

How is that legal? I mean, people are falling off those things all the time. It's happening in almost every city now. Like everywhere you go, you see those peddled habits. I just want to tip them over. It's so annoying to me.

It's the worst thing. They're having fun. If I saw my daughter on a pedal tavern, that'd be it. Hey, thank God for them. They're the ones buying the records. Yeah. And they're burning calories while they're drinking. They're buying the records. Well, they're downloading our songs. They're streaming. They're streaming. Good catch. They are fans of yours and mine and the stuff we've written.

Pedal away, girls. I will say for a minute while I was waiting on it. Pedal away. Hey, there's a t-shirt. Pedal away, girls. Thrasher. I stayed at that, right below that, you know, the Rhythm, you know, that little condo building there. So about five weeks, I stayed there waiting on an apartment to get ready. And I thought I was going to hate it, you know, because you always lived out south. It seems awful. The idea of it sounded terrible.

But I actually loved it for a limited amount of time. I'd go out there on the balcony, and people were just laughing, and they're drinking and having fun. You hear all the sounds of the city, which I'm not used to. I found it inspiring for a little bit. I thought, this is really cool. People are crazy about Nashville. So I found it kind of inspiring for a minute. And I'm glad that I don't live there all the time. I thought it was really fun. I couldn't do it.

I was right there by 10 Roop, right? Yeah. Oh, God, no way. Yeah, let's go right down there and get you a chance. Didn't Chris Young used to live there? Yeah, I actually saw him there. At the 10 Roop? Well, probably there, too, but yeah. But I think he did. He either does or did. Yeah, yeah. And I was using Chris Stefano's place for a little while. And he asked me, he said, hey, why don't you stay at my place for a little bit if you're in between? I said, okay.

i said that'd be great and i kind of took him up on it and and i said i won't be there long and he goes he goes that's fine he goes hey how much you thinking in rent i said oh this is the money thing i thought just let me borrow i don't know maybe 2500 sounds great man this year this year has flown by dude it doesn't seem like we've been doing this a year

So, yeah, I don't know the exact date, but it's either right around now or very close. We've actually done this a year. You guys believe that? No. Well, that was our goal, wasn't it?

To see if we could get through a year to not kill each other? Yeah. And they say, my brother would say, hey, can you keep the band together? You know, you got to keep the band together for a while. You showed him, didn't you? We did. But they had said, you know, in the podcast world said, hey, you got to get to a year before people think you're even serious because a lot of people, you know, you drop out or people move or whatever, you know, because it's not.

super lucrative. I don't know if people out there know that. Oh, I'm loaded from this thing. Are you kidding me? Did you not get your check? Are we getting checks? Jim? Nope. No, it's for love of the game right now. Love of the game. We've made a little bit of a surge, I think. You guys remember a few months ago, I was like, I don't know, guys. I think we're going in the tank. Well, Caleb said it, though, like...

I think we definitely are getting better at it, but also we've had some great guests. Can you believe they agreed to come on? Who's your favorite? Give me one. Oh, boy. I know. It's like, who's your favorite kid? I can't. I mean. Give me one. Give me one that maybe surprised you.

one that surprised me anybody golly well john rich didn't surprise me i knew i knew what he would you know the the knowledge that guy has about everything and he was so good he was he was spot on him he's a pro but surprised me i don't know i was surprised what spit on on john rich i wasn't surprised that he was good i was surprised because i hadn't been around him you know um

I knew how talented he was and stuff, but that dude has some wisdom. And he is really good. He's really sharp, really fast, and intellectual. And I was not surprised. I was impressed. I was impressed by that because there's a whole different side that you don't spend a lot of time. If he wouldn't have been on the podcast, I wouldn't have got that far. So I was impressed by him. And there's been a few where we make our notes of things we want to say or ask and everything, and I'm like,

When John was on, I just turned my phone over and just slid it across the table. I'm like, I'm not going to need that. Just go. I tell you what I do really love about all the guests we've had is that, you know, it's like anything else, right? It's like when an artist is new or whatever. It's like the believers in the beginning, right?

We'll always mean a lot. Like all the guests that came on, you know, Jason coming on, Brittany coming on. Riley Gaines came on like our third or fourth episode. Early in the game. Yeah. You know, when it's when, you know, we didn't have a bunch to offer like as far as like being seen or so that I'll thank all the guests for that. When are we going to get Al Dino again?

I think very soon. Maybe before the new tour? I think very soon. It would be nice to get him on before the new tour. And it was cool that Jason Brittany called in on the app. What was the name of the app? Where do people find that? Because you've got a voicemail thing, right? Tell them about that. Yeah, good plug there. It's on SpeakPipe, and we'll pin it to the Instagram because even you mentioned that. I think it's a great idea.

And we'll get to actually, we'll do that right after this. We'll get to a couple of questions. But, you know, go to speakpipe.com forward slash try that podcast. And it's really cool. You just leave your message. You say who you are, where you're from, what your question is. We play it live to tape on the air here and we'll answer it. But it's a cool way to interact.

So, again, we'll pin that to our Instagram and our ex-account so you guys can do that. By the way, Jim Tex, he said his favorite was Levox, which was pretty awesome. Oh, yeah. That was good. He's hilarious. Yeah. Oh, he's a rut when he gets rolling. I didn't think he was a country boy until I first met him a long, long time ago. I thought he was just from the pop world, just the way he dressed and –

It's no offense to spiky hair. Wow. When he said no offense, I think he means offense. No, no, no. It's no offense. It's my favorite saying. Do you know how successful I could be if I had that hair? It would be unbelievable. You have beautiful hair. Thank you. I love the way it comes up the sides. I'm growing it out on the sides and the back. All right? I'm going to keep keeping it longer and longer so you can keep commenting on it. I like this. Speaking of the speak pipe, which is fantastic.

An awesome name, Speakpipe. Sounds awesome. Speakpipe. Let's go to a question. You guys want to answer one? Sure. All right. I don't know who it's from. Hi, guys. It's Moxie from outside of Philly. I am wondering, is there any other place you can think of that is similar to Nashville, that has that Nashville vibe where the artists are so kind and supportive of each other and it's a laid-back, chill place?

Is there any other place you can think of that may be up and coming or that you visit and you get that whole vibe where there's a lot of country music? It's very supportive of country music, but it's not liberal. I would love to know if

If that exists and where it's at. Thank you. Nope. Great question. First of all, awesome name, Moxie. I know, great question too, but no. I want that name. Neil, you are shaking your head the entire question. Well, I think I got a tick crawling on my head. I've been turkey hunting. It's a good question. Basically, to summarize, she was asking if there's any place like Nashville, sense of community, people that support each other. You guys know anything that could rival Nashville? I can't.

I'm sure, you know, Sunset Strip back in the day probably was that way, but no. Yeah, there's a lot of other music communities, but Nashville is unique to itself. You know, I mean, there's obviously music all over Texas, Memphis. I mean, there's so many different places, but where the artists, where you can just go to,

I don't know, go to a steakhouse or whatever and say, I think it's Alan Jackson right there. It's pretty unusual. It's unique. And people leave him alone generally, and they're very respectful most of the time. Very unique, and I think some people, and maybe 15 years ago, 20 maybe, people would compare Austin to,

To Nashville. You have the South by Southwest. We used to go there all the time. Right. And there used to be a lot of similarities, but I don't see any similarities now. I really don't. And especially the way she ended that was with the liberal question. Austin obviously lies. They're trying to make Nashville liberal. They're trying. You're right. They're going for it. Greater Nashville, yes. There's only a handful of us in there that really just –

They're really, they would love to have this blue as can be. Yeah, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. The majority of Broadway, the majority of fans and tourists that come here are not liberal. They're just, they're not. No. That's their bread and butter. That's Nashville's bread and butter. Still the number one destination for bachelorette parties in the U.S., right? Pedal away, girls. Pedal away. Pedal away. All right, let's do another one.

Hi, this is Steven from San Antonio, Texas. My question is, do you prefer the whole writing process, the recording process, or actually just being out on the road and visiting with all the fans that love you? That would be geared toward you two. TK, you want to stab at that? My favorite, I love the creative process. I love...

Love writing, love making the albums. We do them pretty quick, so it's not like an extended process. The way we've done it with Jason and the way Michael Knox produces is we move pretty fast. For me, it's always a sense of excitement when the album's done and we're getting ready to tour on a new album. That's always fun. Always love taking the songs to the stage.

I love going to rehearsals, the beginning of the tour, taking a new tour out on the road. And that's where we're always – that's how it started was with the live show. So it's always exciting to do a new tour. Yeah, I'm with you. So that's your favorite. I don't know if it's my – I love – my favorite part of the process is probably –

probably creating the songs, like recording them and, and, and like, you know, creating that music together. It's, it's stressful.

But when it's right and it's done and you hear it, you're like, man, I'm really proud of that. I'm really proud of whether we wrote it or we didn't or what we played on it, the part we created. I still love the creative part. Musically, creating the bass line for me will always be one of my favorite things when that's done is just that moment, what I added to the song, whatever song it was. That's probably my favorite moment musically, creatively, creatively.

And then, but yes, of course, touring and playing the shows. You're up there, you know, with your best friends and, you know, it's a, we made this album, now we get to go play it, you know? What's your favorite, Kurt? Thanks for asking, Neil. You're welcome. You know, it's interesting. It's an interesting question. And they are three very separate things, right?

But I guess I'll probably have to agree with the touring part and the playing it on stage simply for the fact of we're 25 years in the making, so sharing that moment with your brothers is really cool. It's, I think, also...

we could probably write or record for who knows how many more years to get out on stage and tour. There's probably a little bit more of a window involved. So just soaking all that in while it happens. I think that's why a moment like, I'll just reference this, like try that in a small town, which is why we started the podcast based obviously around the song. That moment, especially you talk about a moment that you'll think about that

from the inception of an idea to the demo, to sending the demo of the song to Jason, Jason liking it, Jason buying into it. That whole process, I remember everything about recording that song. I remember when it came out, I remember you had the whole video controversy. So that kind of thing is a really special, rare experience as creators because me and Kurt were lucky enough to see it through

all the way to that first time we played it on stage, you know, and then having you guys come out in Alabama and getting on stage with us in Tuscaloosa. So that moment, those moments in the music business are non-existent really when you have a song that started like that and became that big and we got, got to do it together and, and, and kind of experienced that. So that, that, that was a special moment. Like, where do you think, where do you think, uh,

Al Dean will put, try that in a small town. That's a great question. Where do you think he'll put it this time? He's got to close with it, right? I would save it for the encore. You know what's funny? Or not funny, but interesting. We haven't done an encore in at least 10 years. 10 years, probably. Really? Wow. I didn't even notice. So what I, I remember we were having this conversation and talking about, oh, what do we do for the encore? And

I remember seeing Van Halen as a kid. And at one point, one of their tours, they were like, listen, we're not going to do the BS where we go off stage and everybody goes, Oh my God, are they going to come out? And they're going to come out and they clap for 10 minutes. And it's like, I played your biggest song. It's his BS moment. It's like, dude, we're going to play all of our hits when we're done. We're done. And,

I remember telling Jason, we're like, let's do something like that. Let's just do our hits. Let's play our songs. When we're done, we're not going to BS you and say, can you please come back out and play two more songs? Getting the cheap thrill of the crowd clapping because we haven't played Dirt Road Anthem or She's Country. We're going to play these songs. So we just pack them in. I'll say that about our show. We're not...

there's no talking, there's no, there's no crap going on where you got to listen to an artist. People are there to hear the hits. One of my favorite things about seeing Tom Petty, I saw Petty probably 10 times from a kid till, till the last tour before he passed. He went out there and just played the songs. He's not going to,

talk and fill your head with a bunch of stuff that you don't want to hear. Just go out and play the hits. Now, try that in a small town was different. Jason would give that one introduction just because he felt he needed to, especially, you know, this last couple of years. Yeah, the timing of it. We play like 27 songs. I mean, my favorite thing is when an artist goes, oh, yeah, we play two and a half hours.

No, you don't. No, you don't. You play 90 minutes of songs. Who really wants that? And then you talk. It's a long time. It's a long time. You talk for an hour. And you've had opening acts. That's a long time to be on a show. I'm not sure I would want to go see anybody for two and a half hours. Really. At some point, you got it. George Straitgaard, whoever. After an hour and a half or so, you said, I get it. Yeah. You know. I like it. Yeah.

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This is the Try That Small Town Podcast. How's it feel? I was saying that I feel more professional and maybe it's because I'm a little more sober than usual. Well, usually I'm like a Celsius and a solid whiskey drink in. So the combination of the 10 cups of caffeine plus the whiskey. You drink the Celsius with the whiskey or separate? I drink the Celsius on the way home.

down to the podcast. Always on an empty stomach. Never. We get to the podcast and I have like four

almonds or something and then i'll have the whiskey for almonds oh what a party got the zyrtec yeah yeah yeah yeah on the zyrtec yeah yeah it's your tech a little bengay on my knee and then yeah but it provides me the the spark i need but today i'm if i feel really good i feel professional i know it's earlier responsible with professionals a great growing up yeah but i'm the only one drinking

I got this little hard seltzer stuff. Did you call it Celsius? Did you say Celsius? Well, that was what he usually drinks today. I've never even heard of that. What? I mean, except in temperature, you know. I won't touch it. It says the pedal girls drink that stuff. I don't. You're actually right. I don't drink that. Not to go back to that, but how, what is the insurance policy on that stuff? Oh, you probably just sign a waiver.

That's that easy? Just sign a waiver? Yeah. I love that. They made it easy. They made it easy. In some cities, somebody fell off something comparable and got hit. It was here. Yeah. Got hit by an oncoming Uber. But they were so drunk, they just walked it off. Really? I don't know. I don't know what happened to them. Something happened here. They fell backwards off the stool. No surprise. Because they're pedaling on Broadway, hammered. Yeah. I want to know what our listeners who have been to Nashville...

and been to Broadway? I want to know what they think. Okay, that's a great question. I really do. I want to know what they think about all of the pedal taverns, all the noise, all the bands. I mean, they must love it. I'll play it at one time. You'd have to. I mean, I never thought that I would actually think something's magical sounding.

as a hundred bands playing different songs at the same time and you can hear it all. But is there something crazy, weird, magical about Broadway? Yeah, we don't enjoy it. But if you're from wherever, like Iowa, and you're, hey, let's go to Nashville, and that's an experience.

Well, I tell you what, what I do, like if we're ever, and you guys do it too, if you play a corporate show at country music hall of fame or something like that, at the end of it, it could be a Monday night, you know, it doesn't even have to be Friday, you know, but I'll drive all the way down to the river and I'll, I'll come back up. All the windows open.

because I want to hear it and just watch how crazy people are about country music. And it is inspiring to me because they're like, you continually be reminded like, man, these people freaking love music. They love music more than I love music, which makes me want to create it. If they only wanted to pay for it, we'd be in good shape. I know. It's not their fault. Sorry. It's not their fault. I sound really, see, I'm 50, so I feel like I'm allowed to,

to be just a grumpy pain in the ass. Yeah, all of a sudden you're Clint Eastwood and what was the movie? Well, which one? It wasn't Grumpy Old Men. No. It wasn't in that. Gran Torino? Gran Torino? Yeah. Gran Torino. Which is a great movie. I was going to say El Camino. I would say that because there's a lot of people, a lot of writers, people even on Music Row that listen to this podcast.

I would say you don't have the right to be grumpy while you still have top tens on the radio. I can be grumpy. Yes, you do. I think if you're grumpy with a hit, that's another thing. But it's not grumpy. Curt and Tully have whiskey drink climbing the charts, top ten. He's over here complaining about being 50. I think. You know how many writers that turn 50 wish they had a song on the charts? Wish they had a song cut, period. The word is still two syllables, but it's not grumpy. It should be thankful. I can make Tully feel like... It should be thankful. Neil, that really...

Cut to the core. You should. You're supposed to. You're right, though. You should be ashamed for complaining about it. You look so disappointed. You got new tats and a song on the charts. Here's my thing, though. You have zero expenses. See, it's funny you say that. What'd you say, Kalo? Zero expenses. No worries. Here's why I'm grumpy. He has no debt. I'm just trying to get him rent. I do know that. I'm trying to get him rent. Well, I like it. It's the best part. Here's why I'm grumpy. It's because my son...

is going off to college. And the college, I won't name it right now, but it's really crushing us financially because he needs to go to this place. It's a great place for him. So I'm in the middle of bickering, well, my wife is, with trying to get some help. Neil? Neil? Neil, that is very polite. Anyway, that's why I'm grumpy. Crushing him financially. What? What?

It is crushing. I've done the math. See? Let me be bitter. Can I not be bitter? Okay, you turn 50. Get over it. Tomorrow. I'll let you be bitter today. Don't be bitter. But you guys are right. Be better.

My God. Here we go. Come on, be happy. Be thankful. You've got a top ten. Screaming up the charts. Yes. Top five most played for a spin increase this week. Is it? Yes. See, I wouldn't even know that. And Aldean has two in the top five. The one with John Morgan. We've got to have John Morgan on. Speaking of him. He wants to do it. He's a badass. This is what good friends do. I'll tell you this. That is a good...

Slap in the head for you guys. It is. That's what we're here for, bub. It is, no. Slaps in the head. You're welcome. Yeah, that's what we're here for. No, it is. You know, in a good way. Like, you're right. I shouldn't be complaining. Got a new tattoo. You got $100,000 worth of tattoos on just your arms. So I'm not buying any of your woes. You could sell that one arm. You could sell that one arm and pay for a semester for your kids. Oh, my God. I feel like I got scolded. The price of ink these days? Oh.

I know what those are called. I got to tell you something. This tattoo, the new one, for some reason, I don't know if it was just a weird day. Man, it got down on the elbow, and it was like I was having to focus, focus. That's the weenus. That's the weenus. 50-year-old weenus. I've heard that's very painful to get one on the weenus. Oh, my God, I've never. Stay away from the weenus, sir. I'm 50. Oh, my God. Don't touch me there.

Seriously, guys. They'll be putting you under next time you get a tattoo. Oh, hell no. No, that won't be happening. All right, somebody pivot from Weenus. Kurt, what do you got? You can't pivot from Weenus. I got nothing. Yeah, you can't pivot from Weenus. It is good, though. You're right. You guys are both right. Like, just...

You're right. What am I complaining about? That's right. We're always worried about the next one. I get that. I get that. But congrats on this one. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's good that the team is still representing. It's great. It's fantastic. You're right. You guys are absolutely right. Don't complain.

I mean, be like Biden came out today with his first speech since the... He's gay? Since the... No, no. Wouldn't that be amazing to come out at 80-something? Yeah. That'd be amazing. Very niche. Well, he'd say, you know, I had no idea I was. That's what he'd say. But he was informed by one of his aides.

Oh. There's a joke in there somewhere. That wasn't on purpose. I did see him. Anyway, he was captivating today, just as captivating as he was during the... Well, give us some highlights. What? During the run. Well, he talked, you know...

I don't know what he said. I was trying to figure it out, you know, but where was it? What was it? It was in Chicago. I'm not sure what the event was. Okay. Um, but he was saying things and, uh, he was against, uh, all the things Trump was doing and, uh, saying how he's tearing down social security and stuff. And which I hadn't heard anything about that until he came out and said that was happening. But, um,

Have you guys heard of this thing that the liberals are talking about now, how they're blaming the election and how it went on the Manoverse? You guys heard this term, the Manoverse? You guys heard this, Jim, or anybody? No. So it's basically blaming us for...

male podcasters because it was such a influence actually, you know, on the election for young men and because that's people are listening to podcasts, but they're complaining that it's all male voices. Interesting. Yeah. So,

They're calling this the Manoverse. What a stupid word. That's my new favorite stupid word. Only a liberal will make that up, a Manoverse. You're right. Make it sound like a negative thing. Yeah. We have to get Whitlock to talk about this. It all started at Augusta. It all started when they let two women into Augusta. You want to expand? No, I'm just saying. I love women. I love the female population, but...

Why can't men have their own club if they want one? Why do they have to pressure their way in and elbow their way into a men's club just to go? Once they got in, they go, oh, we're in. Now what? Okay. I'll back you up. It's odd. I'll back you up. It's so odd. They wear green. It's so stupid. They have their clubs. Right. Yeah. We don't try to infiltrate their space. Their e-space. Why can't men have their own clubs today?

All right, I'm backing you up. It's a men's club. I like the men's club. What's wrong with that? I saw it coming when that all went down years ago. That was years ago. Condoleezza Rice is in there and some other gal that was picketing out front. I never knew that. Yeah, and I was like, oh, God, if they let them in just because they're raising hell, we're screwed. Men's clubs are screwed. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know what we'll do as a society. I don't know. I mean, of all the things that's happening in the world, that keeps me up the most is that. Well, I don't stay up over it. I'm just like, why? Why do they feel the need to have to do that, to be equal? Well, equal in value, different in role. We're not equally endowed.

We're different species. We're different sexes. We're different. Men want to have their own club? Let them have their own club. It's hard to argue, K-Lo. We'll be right back. No, it is.

Look here, I could go on and on and on and give you my opinions about stuff like that. This is safe space. I'm telling you, man. It's just us. I could go on and on and on. I didn't know that that had happened, to be honest with you. So for me, at its most basic form,

We can have our own club. Yeah. I don't see the big deal. Yeah. So we're not allowing any women to come. This is a boys club right here. Well, hold on. Hold on. Well, try that in a small town podcast is for men only. Except for all the lovely guests that we've already had. And we want to have later. Well, they're temporary. They can come in as guests. He knows not what he says, folks. Hey, look, Tom Petty said it best. Original glory. When Stevie Nicks asked Tom Petty, basically, you know,

Can I be in the Heartbreakers? Tom Petty said, Stevie, there's no girls in the Heartbreakers. He did say that, huh? Oh, yeah. Wow. Well, I mean, that's their club. And then what's wrong with that? Well, nothing. Nothing. Yeah. And the other part of that quote's great, and she goes, well, Tom, why not? She goes, I'm in a rock band. And Tom goes,

Well, not really. I mean, Mac, which I always loved. I mean, I love, Hey, I love Stevie. Stevie Nicks is great.

I love Lindsay Buckingham. Yeah, there's no girls on The Heartbreakers. There's no girls on The Heartbreakers. Somebody was saying before we were recording, actually, maybe it was Lana. She was talking about, we need to have all the wives on. Talking about how it's a boys club. We could give the wives an episode. That's a great point. We could. We could give the wives an episode.

But you said no more. But they're not the stars. This is our Augusta. They get one episode. Is this our Augusta? This is our Augusta. Or are we going to? And people can take me the wrong way and the things that I say the wrong, but it's none of it's true, whatever they think. I think they're taking you the way. They took our song the wrong way. It wasn't true. They can take what I say. And there's going to be a lot of women that agree with me. I like this. There's going to be a lot of women. I think my wife would agree with you.

Yeah, there's going to be a lot of women that hate me, and there's going to be a lot of women that agree with what I say. Everybody loves you. Everybody I talk to loves you. Not everybody. No. But you wouldn't want everybody to love you. There's this one guy. No. I'll wait. I've heard some – sorry, Caleb. I'm kidding. Before I forget because I'm old now. I've had some friends from home who are female friends from home. They go, man, Neil, I don't want to like him, but I love him.

You know why? Well, no. Why? Here's why. Because you're a great person, but you're really genuine. And there's nothing wrong with having an opinion on a thought, but it comes out very genuine. I think people's problem is when they don't know if someone's genuine. I agree. And you never come across that way. I equate Neil to the old Simon Cowell when American Idol first came out. People used to hate him. However...

he was just telling you the truth it was in the truth yes that's exactly right so like you can speak your truth and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that sometimes though people people most people i think you all would agree

Have a hard time actually hearing the truth or, you know, I think people don't want to hear the truth about things. So Neil has this truth, which is very genuine. It's not my truth. It is. Good correction. It depends on the topic. Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes it's the truth. Sometimes it's your truth. Anyway, right? No, no, no. I would never say anything that wasn't true, that wasn't the truth, not my truth. I don't have my truth. That's totally, totally wrong to have my truth. That's not right.

It's pretty much the truth. There's another t-shirt. It's pretty much the truth. You can disagree with it. But my point is... Then you don't know the truth. But my point is you have a...

Things that you believe in very strongly, and that's your truth. Yes. No, it's not my truth. It's the truth. Okay. Well, everything I say is correct. Okay. Well, hey. It is the truth. So speaking of the truth, this doesn't seem like a good segue, but you'll get it in a few minutes. We'll see. Because I actually got the word a little bit earlier today because the last few days, you know, if you're a college football fan, you know about it.

Tennessee and the QB leaving and all that stuff. So he's gone. I think the coaching staff, they did the right thing. They did an excellent job. To preach on that. But as a fan, and this happens in other areas, and I had – you know how you remember Bible verses wrong sometimes and you make it your own and you think – and you'll say one thing, but you go back years later and it's like –

Oh, gosh, I interpreted that totally. That's not what it says. I've told 100 people, you know, that will. It's your truth. Well, anyway. Exactly. Yeah, it had become my truth, but not the truth. Right. So. So anyway, you know, when that happens as a fan, I'm thinking, as a lot of people were because you're in the you're in the mad mode. Right. Right.

You're thinking, I hope he fails so epically. You're thinking all these bad things. That's our first instinct. Now, you don't think anything terrible happens to him. You say, I hope he learns his lesson. I hope he doesn't get close to what he already had at Tennessee. So you're going through that. And I was kind of reminded of that verse that I thought said, oh, how we rejoice at the misfortune of others. And so I looked that up, and I thought because there's another –

Two friendships I've had that have went awry. Tell us about that. Now, that's a different podcast. But we'll get into it. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. I already told that story, by the way. But then I thought, oh, that's just a human thing, and that scripture's in there to make us feel good because, yeah, of course, you know, we've been wronged in some way. And so it's okay to wish poorly of the person, but that's not what it says.

It says, you know, it says, do not wish poorly on your enemies or, or God will lose his vengeance against that person. So he, he will be because you're mad and you wish bad things on them. God takes his anger away. So Nico, I'm so happy for you. And I won't have to give all that. But anyway, I was reminded of that today. And it's just kind of interesting when you're talking about truth and you kind of forget sometimes and you,

You read something a long time ago and you've kind of swapped it around to where it works better for you and it's easier. And then I thought, crap, now I can't be mad at Nico. So I'm not mad anymore.

I'm looking forward to the next season. What if Nico transferred to Alabama? He can't because it's an SEC and it's in spring, so you can't do that. We wouldn't take him anyway. Now, if he did, obviously, as a sports fan, it's just entertainment, right? Obviously, you'd want them to dominate him, but if it was Alabama anyway, you'd still want to win. You'd want him to get sacked more than normal. Where else would be, since he can't go to SEC, like Notre Dame? That'd be awful.

I don't know. Miami. There's so much speculation now. I heard UCLA. By the time this airs, I'm sure it'll have happened. Right, it'll happen by then. By the time this airs, nothing may happen. I think it's all backfiring. From what I've read, it's all backfiring on him. He officially entered the portal today. Yeah, but there's nobody going to pay him what he wanted at Tennessee. And what did he want? He wanted like $4 million. $4 million was the number, right? Yeah, and he was making $2.5 million at UT.

And now I've been reading that all these colleges, when he comes down to a million, we'll talk to him. It's like he's going to lose a million and a half if it doesn't work out for him. Yeah, I don't know what will end up happening. Who knows? Somebody may pay him bank and everything. But that's...

But the pressure now on that kid, because now the whole, I mean, let's say he does get a few million bucks. You talk about snap one, you talk about pressure on now. Now I have to be the most excellent QB in the country. What's he done to earn four million? Hey, a question real quick, because I don't know a lot about this subject. Is that guaranteed money?

Well, he has to fulfill his part of the obligation. Okay. I know, like NFL. Even though he didn't fulfill a lot of his obligations last year. Like he didn't show up for some of the signings, some of the stuff that he was sponsoring. But they kind of slid that under the rug because he was playing pretty good. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

I heard that. It's crazy now that they can't show it. Whether an agent or a parent or whatever said, hey, if you don't show up day four spring game, bet I can get you an extra million. Yeah. 18-year-old, 19, 20-year-old kid saying, really? Yeah. All right. Yeah. He got some bad advice. Right? He got some bad advice. And then the university says, because the team is – I mean, how are you going to win the team back like after that? Yeah. Saban saw it coming. Yeah.

He did. That's when he got out. He got out at the exact right time. You are right, dude. How do you coach it? You can't. You can't. You can't coach it. You can't. Some of these guys have coached in the NFL, and when stuff like that NECO business happens, the locker room goes to the crapper, and then you're not going to win a national championship. If your locker room is separated like that, who's going to block for that guy?

Not many. Not Thrasher. Not me. I'm not blocking. I think we should have women in football now. They had their league with the lingerie. What was that when they wore the bathing suits? I don't remember the name of the league. I think that's volleyball. No, no. They had a football league. No, they had a league where they had like lingerie. Yeah.

I don't remember what it was called. What married guys can be allowed to watch that? I've never even heard of that. Yeah. It was a thing. It was a thing. How to season. How to run. No kidding. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Who would have thunk it? I don't know. That's their club. Do we have any more questions from any of our listeners? We did. We had one more. What was that, Jim? The L.M.L. The Lingerie Football League.

Poor advertising. Yeah, the XFL. That's what I'm thinking of, I think. I'm ready for an LGBTQRS football league. Or the XXL. XXL. Come on. LGBTQFL. What would that be like? I don't know. Let's get to a question. No, why do you want to? Kurt, I think that's. I'll let you. This is going fantastic. Speak your truth. Last question. Last question. Superfan Ed here.

Super fan. Question for you guys on the latest single. Congrats on Whiskey Drink. I see it's in the top ten. I assume that's on radio. Top five. I listen to Sirius XM radio, and Whiskey Drink was played for four months from October through January and then stopped, and I don't hear it again. Can you guys provide some insight into how things work on Sirius XM and some of these other platforms versus the radio system?

and where the influence is on why these songs get played earlier or later or not all at the same time. Just trying to understand how it works. And once again, congrats on the success of Whiskey Drink. Thanks, Ed. And to Ed, for a year, Ed's been with us. Ed's been right here. And it sounds to me like that...

That payola check bounced. Whoever that went to. You're actually not, I'm sure you're not far off. Tell me, you said you might have a... Well, I think, Ed, what happens these days is between streaming and XM, and I think sometimes the label will release songs earlier to stream or earlier to XM than regular radio to build...

to build a little attention to the song. I personally don't like it. I think, I'm going to sound old again, but the days of being excited about when an artist releases a single, it's kind of gone now where it used to be that excitement, a ramp up to a single release. And you're talking about from the writer's perspective. Yeah, and even the artist too, because for example, a song like Whiskey Drink,

We all love that song, but you know, like, you know, you, you lease it ahead of time and it loses some of the punch of excitement. I just, it's, it's, it happens to everybody these days. Like any song here in the radio has already been out to XM and streaming a while before, you know? So,

Go ahead. That was it. I was just going to say, and you alluded to it, I think it could be because that came out prior to terrestrial radio. Yeah. Those listeners have heard it so much that they're on to other things, which it doesn't affect whether it's a top five right now. It doesn't affect it going number one if it's not on XM right now because now you're after those reporters. It's two different worlds. It doesn't affect it going number one or anything like that. I think it's just because I always...

I used to think like when you had a new artist, he was like, Oh man, crap, we're doing great in Wichita and this market, this market, this market. And they're in medium and heavy. It's light everywhere else. I'm saying we'll never go number one because you've eaten up areas that have went in heavy and they'll be tired of it and you'll need them all at the same time. You know what I mean? I'll tell you this right now, sitting on music row right now and labels can argue with me and I'll just call them out. That's how we're talking about it. No one still knows what a stream means.

What a stream means, if they tell you what it means or tell you what it can actually translate to, they're full of shit. The only thing in this genre that still matters when it comes to people listening is country radio. Still impacts. If you have a top 10 country radio, you can actually see that translate whether you're playing. You could have been playing 500 seat clubs and now you're playing 1,000. You can see it.

Every, you know, you get a top five, you can see that translate to a hard ticket sale. You can have someone streaming $4 million a week as a young artist, and they can't sell out 300 seats. So there's something in the streaming world that isn't connecting. Yeah, well, like you said, you can't. Manufactured numbers, whatever you want to say. What is a stream? They don't know. Is someone actually listening to the song? No.

doesn't matter because if it, if the stream mattered, if like they think it does, then by their point, if you're streaming 5 million a week, like if Neil Thrasher puts out a song on his own next week, it's greatest song ever be the greatest vocal ever say he's streaming 3 million a week, but he tried to sell out of a club in Chicago might sell a hundred tickets might sell, might sell 500 in a, in a, in another place. So my point is like,

Radio, Ed, is still – that's why everybody still loves it and cares about it. Labels will tell you, oh, radio's going away. That's not the case. We've been hearing that for years. I know. We have. And if they didn't care about it, then every artist would still want number one. And it's two totally different streams of income, Ed. Yes. One of them is income and the other is not. Two completely different streams. We would be – the streaming world, actually, we're living in poverty if we didn't have the radio industry.

The terrestrial radio. That's correct. We would be living in poverty. It's, what, 0.008 of a penny per stream. It goes out and is split three ways or four ways. Russia is my soul when you say that. Yeah, it's amazing. And that's why Elon Musk needs to buy Spotify and reconfigure everything. It actually is one of the saddest things, though, which is why song quality will continue to dip. You know, we're not going to have...

incredible songs because we can't make a living on streaming as songwriters the day of the standard is pretty much coming to an end the day of the standard song songs that are standards that live forever that's a great point it's a great point maybe they burn through them so fast these songs come out so fast morgan wallen puts out music so fast one right after the other they don't have time to become standards well people also don't have the attention span

This is the problem, and you figure out how to release music nowadays. It's sad when you just put a record out, 12 great songs or whatever. The minute you put the record out today, in one week people want new music. That's already old. That's already old. People don't listen the same anymore. A lot of it is because they don't have the physical...

CD. They're not looking at it. They don't own it. They own it, but they don't. It's, it's, it's just different. Definitely more disposable. You know, I still think there'll be songs that it's all relative and where you grew up and where you were when you started loving Aldine or Morgan Wallen. I think when you look back and you get older, those, those people like Morgan hitting a lick. Now there's going to be songs that pop into their head out of the hundreds that he releases. And they're going to be able to recall that.

three or four of them that are the biggest songs ever to them. I still think to them, those will be, those will be standards. You know, that's an interesting point though. Neil, you got me thinking, I, you know, I hated to cut you off, but I almost agree with Neil. It's like,

I agree with me. But listen, they don't get to live in recurrent land that much because he's got too much new music coming out. And I'm not saying Morgan necessarily specifically, but for maybe other artists. I mean, Last Night's the one I can think of. Morgan, it's massive. We'll live forever. But it's a great point because there's so much music there.

The recurrent ones don't get to live as much. I don't know. I think Morgan Wallen would be the only one that would come close to having maybe a standard here and there. Yeah. That will live forever, you know? There's no more songs that will live on. I could give you a list and name songs and you'd go standard.

And most of them that I would name today, you would be like, yeah, I know the song, but it's maybe, maybe, maybe I'm not saying disagree. The only thing I would have a different view on is the fact that when we're dead and gone and there's other people in the East basis studio here doing a podcast about their runs and their hits and stuff that it'd be completely different. Like, I don't think that the standards that we, like when we say standards, we're still, we're still throwing in like really old names. Right. And,

I don't think people 20 years from now are going to be going back and say, man, Willie Nelson, you know, I just don't think they're going to do that. I think their standards would come, you know, from this time or 10 years back or 15. I don't know if they'll go 50 years back. No, I agree with the timeline. Well, I don't know, you know, and it's okay to disagree with Neil.

Don't be scared. I don't know. I'm on this side of the table. I'm going with Neil. No, but you know, there's a resurgence in the young population today listening that are discovering the old standards, the standards they are were that were in the nineties, which is why, you know, you've got people, which Alan Jackson had some of those for me, like those really incredible to me, like great country songs, you know, and, and, and people are discovering the standard, the Brooks and Dunn standards. Like,

Those are there because they're good, great songs. There's a reason why they're rediscovering them, you know, because they are, they are standards. So I don't, I'm a big Morgan Wallen fan. Oh yeah. We all are. I think Morgan is, Morgan is, is super talented and deserves all the success. Cause he's a very talented, very talented guy. I'm with Kurt. It's almost too much. I was driving in and I heard like three Morgan Wallen songs. I hope it's not too much. And, and, and,

They're good, but you don't have time to really absorb it because you're not living with it. Your tension, but that's today in general. Your tension is pulled in 10 different places. So that's why my daughter, I mean, she's on TikTok and she's listening to like old music.

rock and roll that I loved. So is my daughter. And it's interesting because those are standards. And she's absorbing that. But it's like today's music, the artist, it's so much. I don't know if you have time to know if they have a standard. You know, Morgan, like Whiskey Glasses to me is one people still love. Last night was a huge song. And I heard three songs I like, but I'm

but it's hard because you know any artist is is going to start sounding the song starts sounding a light because that's what that's what happens you know it's not well if anybody any morgan wallen uh camp or cruise listen out there i want to be on the morgan wallen song that everybody just despises i want to be on the least of the least just anything get me on one of those records i mean amen it's hard for songwriters to get excited anymore i don't get excited if i see somebody

Putting out a song on social media. They call it a single, but it's not really a single because it's not to radio. But they call it a single and they put it out there. New song coming out. That I don't like. It's like, I can't get excited because you don't make any money. Well, here's what's going to happen. You make nothing. I just had a conversation with a young manager that we know in town. He started a label, Joy Adventure. I can't remember with who. Anyway, the new model is going to be this. The songwriter's...

are going to get a percentage of the masters. That's a good idea. And that's the only way to keep them going. That's the only way to keep, because I was telling Kurt the other day, like creatives like us, there's nothing more dangerous as a creative than having your ambition and the wind taken out of your sails. When you're creative and everything, you feel it, you're going to write great songs when you feel like you're moving forward and you're positive and it's like great. But when you feel like you don't have a reason to,

For it, some of the most talented songwriters in town are going to stop creating it. And so by giving the songwriters a little piece of the master, that adds a little bit of incentive. And that's what they're going to have to do. And some artists already do that. Some of them do. And I think that may be happening. I'm just not writing with those particular artists. But it needs to be more than a...

occasional happening yeah you know because you're not we're not going to have great songs we can't just burn a writer's idea like if that's the only your only income you can't drive to town throw them your idea and they write something and then they put out half the song on social media to get you know 100 more followers that night and all you're doing is buying uber eats and going backwards you know so what happens is you come to town and you don't throw your ideas anymore

I say, what idea do you have? If I know you're going to put it out on social media, I'm not going to give them my idea. It's a really interesting problem. And so the way to fix it is to involve the songwriters and send them a master. And that's how you're going to get great songwriters to write great songs again. Yeah. Otherwise, we're, I hate to say it, we're going to be stuck with the crap that's out there. Yeah. I'm going to go lay tile again. Yeah.

I'm going to hang on to the bitter end. We're going to keep writing. Cause we love it. What we love. And I know we talk about things, but, but what, what, what I love is, is if you come up with something, regardless of whether it makes money yet, because long before something makes money, you've got to excite the co-writers in the room or the artists in the room. And if, and if I can do that, and if they say, well, I love that.

Then my validation box has been checked. Then I feel good for the day. And so I feel like I've done something. Made zero money.

But I feel really good. And so if I can drive and if you write a decent song, you can drive home in a positive mode that will help you create other things because you're excited because somebody validated what you do, which will make you think of better things other than, you know, being down in the dumps all the time. And, man, we're not doing this. That's not going to make me think of good ideas. You know what I mean? So for me, still, the excitement is coming up with something that could be something, whether it is or not.

I think the hope's always there as long as labels continue. Some labels in town, though, don't want to take artists to radio. So if you're not going to take your artists to radio, then I'm not throwing a hook out there. Not a chance. If the hope is to only stream, then if you're not getting a percentage of the master, then that's what happens. Or you can pay me like five or ten grand and I'll come write with you.

Hmm. No. Okay. That's not a bad idea. There we go.

If you think I'm a good writer, why not pay me up front? I still owe you a thousand. I'm not going to make that with streaming. If you have a big social media hit, I'm not going to make Jack squat. Go ahead and pay me up front and I'll write one with you. If you get a piece of the master, though, there's incentive there to write a great song. But I get that too. I get that up front and you give me a piece of the master. I'm becoming a pop artist. I'm becoming a pop writer. I'm going to start dealing. I'm going to start playing hardball.

With what little time I have left. Well, it's kind of a, you know, I've had to shift my paradigm a little bit and what Tully was saying about, you know, owning a piece of the master, that makes sense because we've said that for a few years, like, hey, you got to give us a reason to come in the room to drive downtown and stuff like that. Kind of the negative though, if you just say, hey, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to write with new artists. I'm not going to write. If you don't have a deal or if you're not going to radio, I'm not going to do it. Well, what happens is,

out of the 100 or 200 that are trying to do it, one of them is going to pop. One or two or three here and there, right? And you've got to be lucky enough to be in that camp so you can pop with them because you can't get on the train after it takes off because then they don't need you. You know what I mean? So it's a tough road for a straight-up songwriter because you can't just sit back and do nothing and expect it to be the same. It's not the same anymore. Well, if it doesn't change, if something doesn't give soon –

There's going to be less and less people every year moving to Nashville to write songs for a living. Simply because they can't afford it. They can't afford it. You can't do it full time. They'll have three jobs while they're here, and then they'll wind up leaving and going back home. And then worse than that, the great ones aren't going to want to write. And so that's the problem. Like I said, with the creatives, like myself, I know for a fact if I'm feeling good and I'm feeling in a good space, I feel very confident.

Very confident. And that's when you can really create your best stuff. That's just a natural thing for creatives like all of us. Neil, I saw Neil the other day, and you mentioned this, like it's hard to get excited to write sometimes. And it should be because that's where we're at. We're not going to keep doing it and writing great songs. But it is a frustrating thing when you're – Well, great hooks are – I get excited when you have great titles and great ideas and great hooks. Yeah.

You know, I got excited when K-Lo brought in Try That in a small tent. I'm like, oh, my God, we have to write that. I really don't even care if it gets cut or not. We got to write it because it's such a great hook and great title. And it's like I wait on those things, and I look for those things. Whenever I watch TV or watch movies, I'm always looking for now the great hook so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time.

you know yeah and it's still exciting like some last trip I was on last week I came up with some some idea and I knew I was gonna be on the road for a while and I knew that Neil and Landon were on the road for a while and I

I called him and I said, hey, I got this idea. I remember what it is. I'm not going to say it now because all of you young guys are going to steal it from me. They don't even know who we are. I'll sue. No, I'm just kidding. But anyway, you just called and said, hey, what do you think about that? And he goes, yeah, yeah, I like that. And then I felt good all the way home. Still didn't make any money, but a guy I respect, one of the best buddies and one of the best songwriters and singers in town validated me. He said, great idea, Kalo. Love that. We'll write that. And I went,

And then I just drive home happy. There you go. That's kind of all I needed for my little bucket, you know. I love it. Probably wrap it up here. Do you want to talk a little bit more about eSpaces? Because this has been awesome, hasn't it? Oh, yeah. You can see it inspired our conversation. My buddy John Purtle, who runs this joint, who has these eSpaces going up,

He's got one going in Cool Springs. We're down on Music Row right now in these awesome office spaces in this studio. It's rad. It's really good. I know. I feel very comfortable. No, I know it. These chairs are amazing. These chairs are amazing. Well, it's fun to talk about business when we're down here in Music Row. That's cool. It's fun. I know it. I know it. I feel like we're

like telling on the people that are walking up and down the sidewalk outside. It's awesome. And, too, it's kind of full circle like we were talking about. Like the row is definitely different. You know, Music Row is different. But we have been blessed, you know, to be back on the row all these years later. And we're on a podcast on Music Row on the ninth floor of a building, which, you know, there was only two-story houses, you know, when I moved here.

And it's really cool just to be talking about the blessings that we've had and the industry that we still love. Yes, we get frustrated, but we still love it. Oh, that's right. And the competition and the creativity. Everything changes. And everything. And so it's still cool to be down on Music Row talking about songs. Love it, Hal. You're right. It's the same blacktop out there. The buildings have gotten a little taller, but that's because business is good. Yeah. Pretty awesome. And Music Row will always be Music Row. Yeah.

God bless the boys who made the noise on 16th Avenue. We built this city on rock and roll. And pedal away, girls. Pedal away, girls. Pedal away. Pedal away. Leave us a comment. Watch on YouTube. Review. One of my favorite things is to get up Monday morning.

And you know Ed's going to leave those comments, and I love how he gives the play-by-play. He's watching, and he'll comment as he's watching, which is awesome. You know what? Ed's going to have to come to town and sit in on a lot of the deal. That's a good idea. We'll get Ed on here and –

uh but we need to get ed drunk when he's here maybe he is drunk maybe he is i don't think he is i don't think he is oh really yeah he's he's straight life he's not like us but he likes us okay well we appreciate it uh but do that follow ed's lead leave us a comment give us five stars even if you don't like it come on give a brother some love why don't you stop at five stars i don't know why can't it be six stars

Why do amps not go up to 11 like Spinal Tap? It's blowing my mind right now. I don't know. That's your truth? It's an odd number. I don't like it. Tune in next week when we talk about going above 10. Follow us on all the socials. Help us out, guys. Migrate over to X. We're at Try That Podcast. We're on TikTok. We're crushing there. Crushing the Instagram. Shout out to Allie who's

working her butt off for us it's awesome anything else just thanks to all the incredible guests we've got thank you guys for and what a year what a year getting the guests that we've had yes it's just been really really fun i can't wait to be a year it's hard to believe i know yeah i know you look amazing you all you guys look amazing

Even in these office lights. For the thrash. Come on. And your truth. Kalo. What? Maybe that's your new nickname, The Truth. The Truth. I like it. Come on. Even though I didn't write it. You didn't write it, but it still kind of fits. I know, but it's still a good nickname. We got TK. I'm Kurt. This is the Try That in the Small Town Podcast. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys.

Make sure to follow along, subscribe, share, rate the show, and check out our merch at trythatinasmalltown.com.