Ep 1031 | Jase's Unexpected Intervention w/ Dr. John Delony & The Loneliest Generation in Human History
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What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Jace, the last time we saw you, you were off to the woods. I'm curious as to what happened. Well... Because we had some guests, too, that were... Yeah, are you going to tell the whole story on that? It's like your best idea. Now, I get it. This was a tough situation. My dad... Don't put it on me because we were all just adapting. Well, my dad gives away a hunt. Something...

according to this story. Yep. Because he released a new book. He did it, much to my shock because he doesn't do that. Well, my dad, although doing, improving, I think we can all agree that his quality of life is improving except, you know, he still has the big overall problems that's caused him some problems. But I do think the prayers from everyone and he's improving. Yeah. So, but he's unable to hunt. Yeah. And,

So I was like, well, we got this hunt. We're committed. What are we going to do? I was like, well, it's cold. It's really cold here. And it still is. And so I was like, well, we'll do an afternoon hunt. Yeah. But we had other people coming. So our sister wanted to come. Her first hunt of the year. Yeah. And we're still training her. She's in training. Is she a duck girl? No.

Yeah, she would be a duck girl. We had the two guests. Husband and wife. Well, I didn't know she was coming. I didn't know she wanted to go until we got out there. So that was kind of a last minute. So nobody ever told me that. Yeah. So when we all, I looked up and here's the crowd and I thought,

well, is she just going to hang out at the lair in this muddy place? So it got kind of weird. So I was like, oh, do you want to come? Because she didn't look like she was dressed for it. She had blue jeans on and a little jacket. But, you know, they're from Montana and Colorado, so they were like, yeah. That's where I was going with it. She's like, oh, no, this is nothing. Of course, it was like 29 degrees, and we go out there, and I had two duck boys.

The only person that I have was a seasoned veteran was Burley. And he's from Colorado. He is. He's come in for a week to hunt. He usually comes in for like six weeks. And to be honest, when I heard Burley was going, I felt better because Burley is really good at taking care of folks, making sure they get what they need. So here's what happened. We go out there, and I have, there's, including me, there's eight of us. I only have one boat.

And so with just us getting in the boat, and Burley's the size of two people. So I'm like, this is a lot of people for one boat. Now, you're like, oh, Jase, you're putting them in a dangerous situation. My first words were, if we turn this boat over, stand up. It's shallow. And so we make it to our destination. I decided since we had so many people to hunt a blind where we have the sun at our back.

Because I didn't think we could hide all these people. I cut a little brush on the way, and I thought the wind was wrong. It was in our face. So for you non-duck hunters,

Ducks fly into the wind. It's like airplanes. Usually. Yeah. So I thought, well, they'll come over from behind us. They won't see our hunting party. And this was kind of in the middle of our duck hole. We haven't had a lot of ducks. So I thought, we'll just try it. Put out a little decoy spread. Even though we got the wind wrong. You can't have the wind right and the sun right when it's a... Let's see. We're hunting in the afternoon and it was a northeast wind. So...

For you that are smart, you can figure out. You're not going to get both of those things right. So I put the sun to our advantage. So we get in the blind, and it wasn't that cold. We were putting decoys out, and it's a clear day. It was moving around. Yeah, it just didn't seem like. And so I had brought a coat, and we had two heaters, and the two heaters were the last thing in the boat.

And somebody said, do we really need those heaters? And I was like, nah. It's a nice. The Colorado people said no. Because it was so crowded. And so we get up there less than one mile an hour. And everything's fine. I said, no, I don't need my coat. And Burley said, I'll go park the boat. Because we didn't have a place to park the boat. So I told him where to go. I was like, there's a little road you go down the tree. He's like, oh, yeah, I remember that.

So he goes and parks the boat. He comes back. We're putting the decoys out. Everybody's happy. Well, we shot a couple of ducks, but I realized real quickly, these people to my right, which is seven people, and we have two guests who are, then they didn't hunt. They just watched. They're in the other section of the blind. So they're completely safe. Nobody can shoot but me. I'm just being honest.

Because Burley's been doing it a long time. He's not the greatest of shots. And he did shoot one duck. Oh, wow. Yeah, he shot a duck. So, because we had a bunch of teal light wide, but one of them was in range, and he just boom, and he got that one. So, he's pretty good if the duck's sitting on the water, not moving. Yeah.

But anything that came in flying, I said, shoot them. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Nothing would fall. I'd raise up. Boom. One fell. One time. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Two fell. Well, I went, boom, boom. I just thought, okay, they're just not a very good shot. Well, then all of a sudden...

About 10 minutes, 15 minutes before sunset, which is as long as you can hunt legally, it got cloudy. It covered up the sun, and the wind started blowing, I'm going to say 25 miles an hour. That moisture got in the air. Look, the whole dynamic changed. I look back at the people from Colorado first, and look, they were literally doing this. Yes.

The woman's face was so red. I was like, are you okay? And then Austin, one of the young duck boys, he said, I didn't want to say this.

But my waders leaked. And so when he was helping putting out the decoys, he was trying to just be a man about it. And he started shivering so bad that I thought he was experiencing hypothermia. Which, by the way, I saw Jeff, and he told me when Austin came in from that hunt, they went by their house first. And he didn't even speak to Jeff as he was running past.

He said, I got to get in the shower. I got to get in the shower. And so he just like ran past him. So I want to say this, that the next 30 to 40 minutes, picking up those decoys and that wind and how cold it was and us getting

When we got back in the boat, because look, Burley then couldn't find where he parked the boat. So that extended it another 30 minutes. That's painful. Fast forward this to when I'm now taking this couple to the hotel aisle, which nobody told me I was giving them a ride. I actually had left and I'd forgotten my batteries to charge. And they just got left there? Yeah, they just got left there. They were fixing to hang out. I came back and they were like, I said, what are y'all still doing there? And they're like, we need a ride.

I said, well, I'm glad I came back. Steven and Vanessa, if you're listening, I'm so sorry. It was the worst trip you could have ever. Well, I want to say this. I've done the studies on this, and I don't know how it correlates to Colorado, but 20 degrees in North Carolina in the mountains is 42 degrees north.

in the bayou of Louisiana. I don't know how it does it, but I'm telling you. On the way back, everybody's personal space was no longer an issue. It was a huddle of shivering people because once I got my jacket on, I was fine. That thing's rated for whatever reason.

And I was like, this is what happens. Be careful what you wish for when you say, oh, let me have my hunt. Real quick, real quick. I hate to cut the story off, but we have an incredible guest coming up, and you have to stick around for this guy. Y'all haven't met this next guest yet, so I'm anxious to see. No, we're super excited about it. We'll see what happens. Jason, it is a doctor, so I hope this doesn't. I'm probably going to struggle. Let's take a break. We'll introduce our guest when we come back.

So, Jace, did you ever get an allowance growing up? No, we didn't do allowances. What we did was we worked, and that was just what we did. I'm sure various child labor laws were broken, but I got room and board. It was pro bono is what they call it. Well...

For the rest of us out there, I did get an allowance and we gave our kids an allowance as well. In fact, Bear just got his first job. He didn't understand that you have to pay taxes. So probably didn't do a great job in teaching him the value of money. But that's where our sponsor, a new sponsor that we have comes in. These guys are amazing. It's Acorns Early. Acorns Early is a smart money app and debit card for your kids that helps them learn the value of money.

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Sign up now and your first month is on us. That's acornsearly.com slash unashamed. Terms and conditions do apply. Monthly subscription fees starting from $5 a month and less canceled. Can I tell you all something? I put your show on to listen to it this morning and the one I picked was...

Jace, you getting carted off by the ATF at the airport? Oh, yeah. Listen, a couple months ago, my son and I went on a deer hunting trip on our family place in Texas. And in the hotel at 5 o'clock in the morning, I stared. He's 14. I lectured him. I said, you listen to me. There cannot be a bullet, a pocket knife. There better be nothing in that bag. Everything's got to be checked. And he's like, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Some gooseball friend of mine had given me a joke yesterday.

I walk through, I have a little hip pack with all my...

in it because I got low self-esteem when I go to airports. And wouldn't you know it, dude, I had a daggum switchblade in my bag. And you would have thought that guy checking the screen like he won something. It's like all these days he sits there doing nothing with his life and he's like, I got one, I got one. You hit the jackpot on that one. Well, Doc, I know we just met, but the fact that you're a doctor and you're carrying around a switchblade makes me nervous about where this conversation is going. Yeah.

Man, I tell you what, some of my wildest adventures were at, uh, in home of Louisiana, man, where I learned how the world works. It was good, man. Well, that's the bottom of the whole universe as far as we're concerned. That's where it all happens. So doc, you'll appreciate this. Somebody told me how to make sense.

south Louisiana because once there's a dividing line that happens about Alexandria so there's a line we have two worlds within one state kind of like being a member of the kingdom of God in this world these are right there's Church of Christ and everybody else once you once you enter that go across that imaginary line when

When people are talking, so when you were in Houma, it would all make sense. If you would have just closed your eyes and realized that everybody sounds drunk. It's like a drunk French something or other. That's it. It's bad English and bad French. So we have John Deloney. John, welcome to Unashamed. I appreciate it. Seat at the table. I'm grateful. John, don't feel like you need to hold back. I was going to tell you, I grew up eating squirrels and raccoons. I mean, we would get anything. But

But it was only in Houma, Louisiana that I was fishing in a, and I called it a ditch. They called it a bayou. And I was, I caught this gigantic, gnarly, red-eared turtle. And I was, you know how trying to get off your hook, and I was trying to get off the hook. And this guy, he must have been 409 years old, comes just hobbling down the edge of that bayou. Bah! Bah! Bah!

And he took that turtle and walked off with it. And I was like, what's he doing? And this, the guy who's with his father said, that's, that's his dinner and breakfast. Turtle soup. And I was like, well, I like turtle soup. I never seen anybody eat a ready or out of a bias. Anyway, good on, good on them, man. They'll eat anything. One of my, one of my most horrific childhood memories now that we've gone to the turtle. So I thought I was going to struggle with what to talk about here today, but, uh,

You've hit an earth Until we met John Yeah So my dad and I Had run the nets Back when we were Commercial fishermen And we came up there And there was this Old truck Beat up truck Parked in our yard And my dad was like Hmm Cause my dad back then Was a conspiracy theorist He was like Why would a truck Be parked in my yard Yeah

Federal agent. That's the first thing he said. Yeah. I knew it. So we walk up there, and I could hear the hissing sound coming from this truck, and the engine was off. And this guy probably looked like he was 280 years old. He gets out, and he said, Y'all want some turtle? Yeah.

The underground turtle market in South Louisiana. I kid you not. I looked in the back of his truck, and there were 10 of the largest loggerhead turtles that you could ever imagine. They were all in their own little spaces. And they were as old as he was. Yeah, they're old. Loggerhead turtles go old. My dad noticed with all that going on, he was like,

He said, well, look like you only got two working digits. And I thought, what is he talking about? And I looked at this guy's hand and he only, most people have 10 fingers, including the thumbs. He had two.

He was a turtle fisherman. The loggerheads took the digits. Yeah, they had taken all his fingers off. Their bite is like, it's like per pound, I think it may be stronger than an alligator. I mean, it's like, it's insane. Yeah, and this guy, this guy in a very thick Cajun accent said, yeah, these turtles gave me two hooks.

And he kind of did his fingers. So I don't know. I know that wasn't planned, but you brought up turtles, and that was like...

Flashback, flashback. John, welcome down to Shane. This is what we do here. We start talking, and then you never know where it's going to go. It feels like home, and I'm grateful, guys. Good. You don't need to read all those things, man. Those are things I did because I had low self-esteem. No, you're a very smart man. We're glad to have you on our podcast. You're a connector. Tell us what you do with Dave Ramsey because you're working with him these days. I'm still trying to figure that out, man. I spent...

a couple of two decades working at colleges. And then Dave and I got connected. And now as my 14 year old said, I was arguing with him a couple of weeks ago about like, Hey, I used to be like somebody of prominence. I wore a suit to work and I was a Dean of students. And he said, dad, you're just a YouTuber now. So all I do with Dave is, uh,

help him with the mental health stuff and the relationship stuff as he's helping people untangle their finances. So, and you like to hunt because before we came on air, we were talking about hunting and you're from Texas originally. Is that right? Yes, sir. I was born and raised there. And, uh, I moved out of Texas at 40. My old man sat me down and,

to me that Al Qaeda is waiting for you on the, on the, uh, Arkansas border. If you ever move out of Texas, it's not like we had similar childhoods, but we've been in Nashville for about, I don't know, since, uh, 2018 and we love it. Oh, wow. I have, I have a place up there. We'll have to hook up now that I feel like we're, you know, got a lot more in common spirit. He was at, you were at ACU for a while, correct? I graduated from love of Christian. And then, uh,

I worked at ACU for a while, and I've got close, close friends. One of my best friends in the world is a leader over there at Harding. So yeah, and obviously got some friends here at Lipscomb. So that's kind of the gang. Well, I saw that when I saw you had been at ACU and LCU because, you know, we all come out of the same heritage. We come out of the Church of Christ heritage. The one true church. The one true church, yeah. And so I noticed because when our little duck show took off,

We were quite popular for people raising money, you know, to come in and try to get some crowds in, in some unusual places, including university campuses.

And so I made it my vow that I was going to – every one of our COC colleges and universities that are out there, that I was going to try to make sure I made it to every one. And I did. It took me three or four years of fundraisers to make it around. But it was just – it was a nice thing we could share together, you know, from that idea. So that was pretty cool. I think I got kicked out at some point and didn't realize it, but –

The relationship was a strain. I have a problem with saying what I think. But I'm beginning to think we've actually had a couple of mental health doctors on in succession. Are you feeling the intervention vibes? Yeah, I'm beginning to think it's me, maybe. We had Dr. Eamon on. Do you know Daniel Eamon? We had Dr. Daniel Eamon on. Oh, he's a real doctor. He's real, real, real smart. There's levels to this game. He's...

I'm not there, man. Well, they talked about he was a brain scanner, and I thought, I'm really scared to have that done because I've always thought that mine is a lot more small than the average human. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that because it might confirm some of your family suspicions. Exactly. But like what you said a while ago, you said you hang out in colleges and spoke there for a couple of decades. Yeah.

I have a theory since you're, you know, understand the human mind. I have a theory that once you reach about 40 years old, that you're no longer listening. So I keep gravitating toward a younger audience. You try to catch them before they shut down. Yeah, because I'm like, once they get about 40, it's over. They're just shaking their head like, no. No.

So is that, have you had that similar experience? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, I think, you know, the person who I hope to emulate the most is, quite honestly, is Dave Ramsey. He's probably 64. I've not met a man past the age, like my experience has been 55, who is so interested in finding out places where he is wrong. And it's been, like, I used to think I want to make this much money. I want to have this kind of accomplishment. I want my family to have the X, Y, and Z experience.

I want to be 65 and still curious and wondering how I can do something different or do something a little bit better or learn a new skill or something. So, yeah, you're right, man. I think it gets – we used to talk about this when you graduate with your dissertation and you get that PhD after your name.

one of two things usually happens. When you go through your dissertation, you realize how much information is out there in the world and how much you don't know. So you do one of two things. You get real, real humble. And you say, hey, man, my mama named me John. Call me John. This is just...

This is like the PhD is a sticker like they put on the back of your car. If you get through a marathon, you can run it or walk it. It just it's just it was a high five on a journey I'm taking. Or you become one of those PhD folks that makes the you tell the mailman you will address me as doctor because you lock down with this arrogance because that's all you got because it's so disorienting. And so, yeah, I think most 45, 50 year olds.

get nervous about what they don't know. And they realize, oh, my parents were making it up as they went to, and it just closes everything down. Well, that makes me feel better because I've learned, I keep saying this, I've learned more. I relate that to Bible study. I've learned more in the last four or five years than I learned in the first 35 years.

But I want to be open-minded to it. I want to think outside the box. I want to hear what other people say. I want to constantly challenge myself in that area. Well, the guy that mentored us here, that led down to Christ, mentored me and Jace in our early formative years in Bible study, always said, keep studying and stay open to God.

because, you know, you never know what he's going to reveal to you. And he was a man, even as he got older, that had some beliefs that kind of were all of our heritages coming into this situation. But over time, when he looked at the scriptures and was fair with it, he said, you know, I've been wrong about that. And again, by this time, he's in his 70s and 80s. And so I'm kind of like you, John, that those sort of things impacted me because I don't ever just shut down, think I know everything that's out there.

Y'all gonna think I'm lying? I wrote this down this morning during some, I'm embarrassed to say I'm a hunter and I use the J word. I was journaling this morning. But I wrote this down.

I'm tired of being, quote unquote, the most correct guy about stuff. And this thing that I think has led me through, and it's been insecurity, and it has been like looking for a purpose, is to try to be the most right guy in the room, whether that's with my kids, whether it's with my wife, whether it's with my anything. And all that does is create space between you and people who are just trying to get with you, right? Yeah.

As old Dr. Phil used to say, do you want to be right or do you want to be married? And I think that that sentiment has been so powerful for me with theology, with science, with all of it is do the best you can, but hold it all pretty loosely. Because the goal for me is not to show everybody how right I am. It's to love well. I heard a pastor say one time to a church he was speaking to. That was a church that I would say probably a dead church. And he's speaking to this church that had no life left in it. He said, you guys are dead right.

And then he stopped. He said, no, you're dead. Right. You're right. But you're dead. Congratulations. This is the perfect segue for me to reveal what just happened.

So I'll have to, Doc, I'll bring you up to speed. I had an altercation with law enforcement that went on for months. We did multiple episodes because I had... They were actually competing sides in our audience as to who was right, who was wrong. The story...

Took another chapter this morning, and I hope it's the final chapter. Oh, boy. Because I get a ticket for not having my seatbelt on properly. I had it on, and so I was going to fight it. Long story short, after I met with the prosecutor, I thought, this is not worth it. I'm going to pay the fine. So I pay the fine because this guy, I could see it in his eyes. He wasn't budging.

Pay the fine. As soon as I paid the fine, they extended grace, gave me the money back, and said, let's just call it at that. So as soon as I admitted guilt, so I guess that took them off the hook for thinking they were giving me some kind of perk. They gave me grace. So I thought, well, this is awesome. It's almost a spiritual application here. I thought that was the end of the story. And so this morning, I woke up, I get in my truck, I'm driving, and...

I have my seatbelt on properly because grace is more of a motivating factor. Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness, Jason. And so I thought, you never know, this guy may be in his spot because I haven't seen him there since. And wouldn't you know it? Right in front of the door. Right in the roundabout. Yeah. Same guy. And I'm on the right side. So I thought, we're going to have a moment here. I slowed down a little bit and I waved.

He did not wave back. And I went on, but he didn't pull me over because I was wearing it properly. That's when it hit me. I thought, this is the problem with law-based work system. There's no relationship. I'm doing what's right.

Oh, wait, you know who I am. You remember what happened here. How about a wave? Guess what? No wave. Well, that's the end of that story. There's a lot of truth in there. He was quote unquote right. And his bosses called him in and said, we're going to get lambasted on, on in front of millions of people because you had to be right. That's exactly. So congratulations. You had a guy that was doing 98% the right thing and staying safe and

And Dr. Edmund wants to look at his head. It's mostly empty anyhow. I just thought it was interesting. You brought it up and I thought this is perfect. This is a

Now I'm doing technically the letter of the law. Yeah. And I was kind of happy about it. I like it that you're friendly. You should keep Kohl's on his head and Uber Eats him just some snacks. He was parked right in front of a donut shop. I mean, this morning I saw him as well when I came by.

Al, your testimony, I love hearing it for a lot of different reasons, but one is that you pay respect to my late mother, Jan Robertson.

and her influence in your life. And you tell that story about when she brought you to Camp Chioka for the first time. How monumental was that in you becoming a man of faith? You know, I mean, it opened every door of opportunity. And what I loved about my Aunt Jan, your mom, is that she spoke words of life and scripture into me. I love that. And that's honestly, like,

This is why this partner that we have with Tomorrow Clubs is so important for me because they do that. What my mom did for you, discipling you at a young age, that's what this sponsor does. They do that all over the world, and they help children who don't have parents who know Jesus, and they disciple them. The Great Commission is pretty clear. It's not to make converts. It's to make disciples. And so they're engaged in long-term ministry in some of the most forsaken places in the world.

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All right, so that's great. So can you analyze Jace on that, John? He's right, 100% right. Okay, good. 100% right. Love it. I mean, Jesus said, you know, come and see. We're fixing to get to that in John 1, but he also said, come to me. Yeah. I mean, this is personal. He's a person. It's a relationship. That's where I was going with that. Okay, I like it. Well, I think that's the thing for all of us, right, is figuring out that what's the spirit of it and what's the...

what's the stuff anchored into concrete, right? I think that's been the challenge of my life is, hey, the Sabbath's for y'all, man. If you're hungry, grab something to eat. Like, you know what I mean? It's a set of principles. And if you're going to die on some of this nonsense, but also...

I think the fear all of us have, especially in our church tradition, is if we cut all the tethers, then it's just going to be anarchy and bananas, right, everywhere. So I think it's just finding that balance. Yeah, and if you never do something, you'll never have to worry about it. So I want to ask you this because you guys obviously are doing –

great work with what you're doing with Dave and everything else. We're, we're in another lane and none of shame, but I felt like we're all kind of working together from a kingdom perspective, what we're putting out there. So, you know, cause you said you listened to a podcast that we're based obviously in Bible study and then stories, you know, stories is how that's how we grew up. Uh, my grandfather and my dad and all of our relatives told stories and

And so then that shaped right into sort of the biblical story and how we go forward. So that's kind of the unashamed lane that we're in that works for the folks that are here. But I want to ask you about that because I feel like you and a lot of guys like you are what I call in the cultural trenches because you talk to people every day. They're right up next to a lot of real issues that they may or may not understand.

talk about their church or some other place because they're just struggling, but they don't know how to get this out. So just to get us started, how do you approach that? How do you think people's identity in Christ can help them through mental issues and all the stuff you deal with? I think this is the first time I've ever talked about this. I appreciate the invitation. The guiding story that has guided my professional life probably for 20 years is Jesus with the woman at the well.

And I say this as a member, somebody who's sitting at the table. So it's not me throwing stones. It's me being honest about my own family. I think the church, especially over the last 50, 60 years, has failed pretty bad in this, which is we like to see the woman at the well and we like to give her a list of things she needs to do before she's got permission to talk to us. And we like to make sure that she knows that she's wrong. She's bad. She's not good enough.

And then if you want to come knock on our door, we'll see if we can let you in. And I think that story is so powerful because you have somebody that breaks every social convention to go to and reaches out and says, hey, you can help me with something. I give you a purpose. And by the way, I see you and I know you and I love you. And then at the very end, there's this sense of, hey, there's no way to do life. Right. And if you get that out of order, you're

It's like you say, people will, man, you'll put your seatbelt on the right way and people won't see how many fingers you're holding up because your hands are in your pocket. But there's not a relationship there. Right. And the other side of it is like, man, if that guy pulled you over and said, I hate to do this, man, but like, here we are. Somebody's going to pull you over and they're going to give you a ticket. It's two inches. And what I'm saying is obnoxious and silly, but it's just a law.

and he fist bumped you and drove off, you would laugh. There'd be a relationship there. And he would get what he needs to do, which is, hey, you got to move the seatbelt on, quote unquote, properly. So I think we get the relationship stuff. So when it comes to approaching people, I don't care what you're experiencing. What I've learned is, I'll say this. When I first kicked this show off, I listened to two podcasts and they were like nerd podcasts. They were like really high science nerd stuff.

And I, uh, three or four calls into my, my, my own show. Every time I would ask, Hey, Hey, why are you calling me? Call a friend. And every single person had the same answer, which was, I've got nobody to call. Wow. And I remember thinking, Oh, we've created the loneliest generation in human history and we're melting on the vine and we got no families to go home to because we all vote different. So that means we have to hate each other and we've got no churches to

The churches isn't a place where we can say, hey, this is going on in my life. And people say, dude, pull up a seat. Me too. It is. Oh, there's a class down the hall for the divorces and for the singles. And like, y'all go over there. They'll handle you.

And so it's just become a place of, I don't care what's going on in your life. I don't care bananas thing you've done or has been done to you. Pull up a seat and we'll get some nachos and we'll figure this thing out. And I think presence is, is largely more important than any answer I'm going to give somebody. That's that, that right there is the thrust of everything we're doing on this podcast. And we're going through the Bible and really,

our method of interpretation of the scriptures, it is storytelling. We tell a lot of crazy stories where it's almost like a Seinfeld, a show about nothing with the Bible study. But the way we're interpreting the scriptures through that lens of God's presence, first, he's present with us and then allows us to be present with one another. I recently heard, I don't know where you were speaking at, but I saw it on Instagram and I,

I love your stuff, by the way, because it's always like super practical and it hits people right where they're at. And I'm like, and I agree with almost everything you say. And I'm like, man, I need to send this to somebody. But you were talking about this idea of presence. I think the word you might have used was connection, being connected. And you said something that's very simple, but very profound.

And it should be obvious, but it's not in our culture. You said to be to be connected, you got to be face to face with somebody. You got to look at them. How do you see like technology, Instagram, phones, all that as a disruptive and at least with our ability to be present? How will be your advice to someone who's got teenage kids like yourself? That's a that's a that's a big one, man.

Just to put it bluntly, I think it is the same. We're going through the same exact thing with our minds and our spirits and our relationships that our parents went through in 1971 when this awesome thing came out called the TV dinner. And they're like, man, you can just take this box and put it in a microwave and you don't have to go shoot anything and skin anything and smoke anything. You can have it in five minutes.

And everybody got real excited. And then we've had a generation of people dropping dead from heart attacks and cancers and all sorts of degenerative diseases. But we called that stuff food. And I think very similarly, for thousands and thousands of years, we have... I was thinking of this the other day.

To listen to this conversation for all of human history, you had to be in that room y'all are in. Yeah. Right. And so it's some way our body hears these voices talking, they hear the stories and it's connecting as though we're friends. Y'all meet people when y'all go travel and they come up and ask you questions. And if you're like me, my body's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't, don't ask me about my daughter. I don't know you. You mean that's like, you know what I mean? You know stuff about my life. And so it's this, it's this,

through a glass darkly. It's, we think we're connected and our bodies are screaming at us that we're lonely. And so I think at the end of the day, we'll have a same as we're having with the food issue. We'll have a gnarly, um, reckoning with just our basic physiology that our bodies are, let me put it this way. If your body recognizes that you've lost your tribe,

It would be failing you if it let you sleep at night because it knows you are all you've got. And we can have these long text threads full of emojis and funny jokes, and that's fine, but that's just a Twinkie. That's just a bag of popcorn. That is not a meal. And so your body has to have real people that it knows it can lean on and see and experience your breath and your eye crinkles and your jokes and just your glances. That is the stuff that keeps our brain functioning well. So these phones at the end of the day, they're,

Man, they're protein bars when you're out hunting, but man, I can't sustain you for very long.

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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I had never thought about connecting back to 50 years ago and sort of the dawn of the television age with that. It happened.

And how much you're right at how much that has just set the stage for where we are today. It's been a natural advancement because you said it is TV dinners. So it's not just the we lost that, you know, supper time. We lost that meal experience. We lost that idea of connection to what gives us that nutrition for both our bodies as well as our psyche and our soul. Right. But also it's tied to a device.

It was tied to the television. And so, you know, back in that day, because I remember being a little kid, it was three channels and, you know, it was colored bars at 10 o'clock at night. At least there was a stop to it. I turned it off. That's right. Right. There was a way to turn it off. Now it's just endless. I read yesterday that they sell seven iPhones per second now. Seven. So we've been going for...

A few seconds. Yeah. Seven iPhones per second. Yeah. Which is not shocking then on the way over here. It took me 15 minutes to get here. I saw at least four or five people who were not

going in with the traffic and every one of them had their cell phone which i'm thinking this guy didn't wave at me over the seat belt thing i'm like i just passed three people who have stopped traffic because they had their head in their phone you know get them but so i was just gonna say you know what we did with our teenagers which are you know now they're all grown

is we had to invite all their friends to come over for meals. I mean, we tried to do this once or twice a week because I want to know who they're hanging out with.

But it was amazing. If you feed them good food, they're coming because there's just not much to offer, to your point. And I always made them turn in all their cell phones, which seemed like crazy to them at first. Oh, you go over there. That Jace, he like makes you turn your phone in when you come. I'm like, you can come check it. You can come. But it stays right here.

And no TVs around. We just sat around, ate good food, and talked and had conversations. It was amazing how much that grew. Mm-hmm.

Through the years. I mean, it got to where the parking lot couldn't hold them because this is what life should be about. So I'm just offering that as one. And I'm saying I'm willing to bet that the ones that stayed on as friends of your kids are probably still friends to this day. They're friends with me. That's what I'm saying. When you see them, you've got a relationship. So that brings me to something, John, because you talk a lot. I saw some of your shows where you talk about getting weird.

If you have to, because you're in protective mode and Jace, what Jace just described is weird, but only because it's just different. It's right. Most of us can agree, but most people don't have the courage to do something like that. Yeah. Jace, I mean, you were ahead of your time on that one. Like, yeah, it breaks my heart. My 14 year old doesn't, um, he doesn't have a camera on his phone.

Why? Because I was 14 years old. I would be wholly unemployable if I'd had a camera on my phone when I was 14. Because stuff is funny when you're 14. Listen, the stuff my son laughs at, I'm in my late 40s. It's still hilarious, but I don't want to explain it to my grandmother. It doesn't need to be recorded somewhere. And so, yeah, he was the only kid in his class in fifth grade without a phone. He's the only kid in middle school that did not have a phone ever.

And he's a freshman in high school now. So we've got some contracts, but he doesn't have Google. And I think it's madness. And I say this boldly, it's insanity.

to give a child access to the World Wide Web 24-7, 365 in their pocket. And worse, to give the World Wide Web access to your child. Wow. 24-7, 365. It's madness. And, Jace, we have the same. We have a little bit of land out here outside of Nashville. And so we experienced the same thing. My wife had a basket. Everybody who came over, I wanted my place to be the place where all the kids came. And I tell you what, man.

It started kind of weird. My wife had to text all the moms. We're watching them. They're fine. And we found out it's usually the parents that wanted it. They are the ones who are anxious all the time about where's my precious little baby. And so they were the ones that needed to be coached. Hey, we're good parents. We got it. And those kids would come drop their phones in the basket. And then I think their nervous systems regulated. And for a kid, it just felt good.

Because then they now they come over, man. They drop those phones so fast and they are off into the woods and their bodies are just exhaling. Right. Like, thank you, God. There's a place where I can put this thing down. And so the weird part, it just stinks when you find yourself the only parent, man. And nobody wants their kid to miss birthday parties because they don't have Instagram or whatever. But I got to play along game with my kid's soul. And I did. I just been in the room with these tech folks.

It's not good. It's not good, man. It's not good. Yeah, I think there is a movement, though. We've got Jonathan. Jonathan Haidt. Yeah, he's coming on the podcast in a couple of weeks. Oh, good. Well, let him talk. He's the goat, man. He's the expert. He's fantastic. Yeah, his work. I mean, I've read a couple of his books. And, you know, the irony is, is the fear. You fear that your kids are not safe by letting them go out without a phone and just.

do what we used to do. And he said, actually, there's not an increased risk in your kids getting kidnapped and all the things like, and we're de-risking their lives. But at the same time, like you said, we're giving the world, the World Wide Web access to our children. And that is a, I think he says that, uh,

not to give kids phones or smartphones access until they're 16. Yeah, 16. I mean, and Europe's passed a law. So I think there's a real mental health crisis. I mean, I think we're all seeing this in real time, and it's like we've got to have this conversation, but we're almost afraid of our children because they're like gaslighting us as kids do. That's it. I noticed a transition because it was awkward at first, and I ran into the same thing with a couple parents.

And I'm like, I'm not taking their phone away. It's just a public place where they can check their phone. Because I think the most annoying thing in life, and we've had a problem with that this duck season with taking the duck boys in quotations, because they'll get in the duck blind while everybody's working, getting ready, and they're just sitting over there on their phone. Which, that happens once. They never...

Because out there, it's a different world. John, that's why they're called Duck Boys. They haven't become Duck Men. He's got a whole program. He's got a whole program of raising up these group of young men in the duck line that he just launched. It's called the Duck Boy Society. Boys to Men. I think it would make a great TV show, honestly. If you watch this stuff, it is fascinating. But what I want to say is something powerful because I don't think I've ever shared this, but I did notice that transition after the bumpiness started.

Came out because then more parents started because they saw a difference in their kid. They're now connected with people and having spiritual conversations. And so their life starts improving. And they're like, oh, whatever you whatever you all want to do over there is fine. But at first it was bumpy with with a few people. But I would notice they would come down because I'm a late night owl. And that's when I do my studying. Well, that one by one, they'd walk downstairs and they'd go over there.

Look at that phone. You know, it's like just through the night. Well, we done it validated what I was doing. I was like, if you're so upset. And so I started as they would walk by. I'd say it's still there.

And it's just little jokes. But what I notice is that so those people get older and they keep coming to our house. Well, now most of them are college age. And now I've noticed a difference because, you know, they're still gathering up at my house. Every time Mia comes in, there's just all her friends are there. But now they're coming downstairs and they're stopping.

Instead of going to check their phone, because they're still turning on their phone. And I'm like, look, at this point, you're in college. But I don't say anything because they're like, that's the rule here. But now I've noticed they stop. And we've had multiple conversations about Jesus and life. And I thought, isn't that something that all started with just...

putting their phone in has now developed in a relationship where they want to talk about life, talk about Jesus. And it's really happened in the last year. I've just noticed more of these same people. We

We're just having conversations into the night about how we can get Jesus in the world. It's almost like you flip from defense to offense because it's what John was saying earlier about the woman at the well. She starts out. She's isolated. She's alone. She doesn't want to talk to people. She's engaged with Jesus in just a short conversation. All of her life hurts are brought out. And then what is the next thing she does? She goes into the village and says, hey, you got to come out of here.

I mean, so all the people she's been avoiding now she's on offense and saying, you know, this guy will tell you everything you've ever done. So I find that that defense to offense makes a big difference. Well, I even think about the woman at the well. I mean, what she she's asking the question, where do we worship? Like, where where where is God at? Where is his presence at? And I think that that goes back to everything that we've been talking about.

Oh, exactly. I love this conversation. I mean, I didn't know what we were going to talk about, but I think this is at the top of the list for our young people. When it comes to technology, I like to just go back to that meal analogy. And whenever we went home from college, um,

When I ride it, I mean, most of my life was eaten in a college cafeteria or eating Taco Bell or there was a little place called Lone Wolf out there in West Texas that had like 19 tacos for nine cents or something or whatever. And it was just like you eat the tacos and it's a race back to the bathroom. But when you get home, I knew my mom was going to cook.

And it was just that meal that sat in you and it made you feel home. Right. And I think the technology and the relationship aspect is the exact same. It's just not food. It's, it's that, it's that social connection, that spiritual connection. We all are so desperate for. Well, it's like, uh, I was hunting with Burley yesterday. He's from Colorado. And, uh, he just got a text from a young guy who recently, you know, came to Christ, but it,

I think he said he was 16. But when he read it to me, he didn't say who it was. He just said, what would you say here? And it was basically the guy saying, you know, he's having suicidal thoughts and this kind of thing. And I thought, man, this seems to be a common practice with our young people now. And I don't know if it's from technology or what, but it just seems like every once a week I'm having some conversation about a young person saying,

having these types of problems coming up. So I was going to throw that out. Do you think that's a connection to the technology world or all of the above? Yeah, because you never really thought about this, like, ending your life stuff being that present in young people, but it seems to be part of this new phenomenon. Yeah, I mean, that's the reason I went back to grad school again, halfway through what I thought I was done, grad school.

being educated, right, was my students in 2004 and five were talking about what I want to do when I grow up and should I go into technology or should I go into psychology? And then in 2010, 2012, the conversation shifted overnight to, I don't think I want to be alive anymore.

And my response to that, when somebody, I call those grenades. When somebody texts me a grenade, my response is always to pick up the phone. I'm going to call you. I'm going to talk to you in person. I'm not going to respond to something that heavy. I'm not going to dishonor you by talking something that big in a text response, right? We're going to talk. I remember one of my graduate students came in one time with a phone and his wife had said, I'm divorcing you via text message. And I was like, this is crazy. This is nuts.

And then I said, why are you still here? Why aren't you in the car to go see your wife? And he goes, well, we have a Zoom call set up. And I was like, man, this world is nuts, right? But yes, I do think there's, I mean, Jonathan will talk about it, Jonathan Hyatt, Dr. Hyatt, but there's a massive increase in suicidal ideation. There's just these pictures in their heads. Every 16, 17, 18, 19-year-old is uncomfortable in their own skin, every one of them.

And there's something about being uncomfortable with a bunch of other kids, being uncomfortable and being anchored to some sturdy, regulated adults. And they don't have that anymore. They've got adults that are on their phones all the time or just mainlining news channels and thinking that's gospel truth. And so they've got parents who are angry, exhausted, frustrated, who don't like each other. And so kids have nothing to anchor to. And then they get this picture of, well, it may be that

you shouldn't be here anymore. Or here's a video of it. Or here's 50 ways you can Google, 50 ways to take your life. There's just that ecosystem is so toxic and gross and awful, and it just didn't exist for us. There definitely were kids that died by suicide when we were young, but it wasn't as pervasive. And I also think this, Jason, and this, you got to be careful saying this, and so I'm saying this having done this as a professional, I also knew there were often

young people who simply were hurting so bad and no adults in their life would pay any attention to them. And it was a young people learned. I can stop the presses. I can shut down my school. I can shut down my family. I can finally be seen and heard. If I just send a text that says I'm having dark thoughts and I can just shut the whole system down and then people will finally come and say, are you okay? And so, um,

Again, there's six and a half dozen another when it comes to that stuff. But it's very, very serious. And I take that stuff real serious. Well, when you talk about that, about these kids, they don't have an anchor or something to anchor into. I think that's the insanity of our cultural moment is that we're

putting them in charge as the experts now. And you're, you're their feelings, not even, not even their thoughts. We're putting their feelings in charge of our culture. How does a 16 year old feel? We're insane. You have to ask, how's it working out? And I look at what you're doing and it's really kind of in the same vein as Dave Ramsey, who's also coming on the podcast soon too, how he handles it with the financial advice. He's

You might say it's blunt advice, but it's actually just that we're not – I'm just telling you the truth, and I think that there needs to be some level of

of like truth telling from the, the adults in the room. Like, I think our culture that has shifted so much that empathy is like this highest ideal that we're all ascribing to. But man, if I get down in the hole with you, then I can't help you get out of the hole. And so maybe you could talk about your methodology a little bit. Cause I don't, you, you show a lot of sympathy and what you're doing, but I don't, but I do see you speaking truth in a way that, um,

I heard someone call your show and ask about travel while one time. And you were very blunt about it. But I'm thinking I've been thinking this whole thing this whole time about how this rips families apart. And you just said it in a way that was so matter of fact that I think it's so compelling. And I was listening to the lady on the other end and she was like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Of all the things I've talked about on my show, we've talked to us about some banana stuff when people call in.

The two things I've gotten in the most trouble about is telling a woman there's no such thing as a dog mom. There's a dedicated pet owner. There's no such thing as a dog mom. That's not a thing. And you would have thought, good God almighty, they came after. And the other one was, yeah, the travel sports thing.

I had one person in a book signing line one time and y'all probably done this and you sit with these, the experts and they're good at what they do and they're everybody's well-meaning, but they're the branding folks. And like, Hey, how are we going to tell the story? Like, what's the picture we want people, all that kind of stuff. And y'all are probably similar to me. Like, I don't understand all that what y'all are doing, but I'm just going to go be as honest as I can with the person in front of me. Right. And that,

That gets you in trouble sometimes. And also, I think it's endearing sometimes. Refreshing, yeah. A woman came up to me on a book signing line and she said, you know, you're the big brother that none of us ever had. And when she said it, I remember thinking, that's it. Yeah. Is I'll hit somebody for you if I got to, but I'm going to sit down and tell you, you shouldn't have said what you said, right? I'll sit with you, but I'm going to tell you the truth. And so I think our culture is desperate for truth.

But I also think those of us who think we are seeing a world who's being crafted without truth through illusion and lies, our solution has not been to offer somebody a cup of water. Our solution has been to go set that house on fire. And I think we have to... I can't control what they're doing or what they're saying. I can't control that. What I can control is...

I have never one time changed my behavior because somebody screamed and yelled me into it ever. I have been out on a hunting ranch with my buddy Nate in West Texas, and we're sitting next to each other, and he's got a recurve, and I'm poking fun at him, and he's poking fun at me. And then we talk about something serious, and he says, hey, I know you got 17 degrees, but I think you're off on this one.

And I know he cares for me. I know we're in this thing together. And then I can go, okay, tell me more. And so I think that's the move we got. So my methodology is pull up some nachos, pull up a drink, sit down, and I'm going to look you in the eye and be honest and hear you and say, man, that stinks. And say, if necessary, okay.

Hey, if we can't agree on live on less than you make, we're probably not going to get very far. If that's a crazy idea, if the idea of you and your husband deciding to date other people while you're still married, if that seems like a good idea on how you're going to solve your problems, I'm probably not the guy for you because that's madness. And usually they'll lean forward and go, all right, tell me some more. Right.

That's good. I love it. John, we're out of time. You know, we have a way of rating guests on the Unashamed podcast. The really good ones, it feel like we just got started. And literally, we're out of time. Zach came up with 17 questions to ask you. We asked two.

So we got to have you back on. It's the Dr. John Deloney Show. If you want to check out John's work, he's written some books as well that look fantastic. Thanks, John, for what you do every single day. And man, thank you for coming on Unashamed. Well, blessings to you guys. And you have an open invitation to...

So do some deer hunting out here in Nashville. The limit's three a day in middle Tennessee. So come on out for the whole season. Ooh, Jace lives up there. I do have a place. We may get together when I come up there. My manager is a massive duck hunter and he always laughs at me because my one Achilles heel about hunting is I just hate being cold. And he said, you don't know cold until you've been duck hunting. So I still have it going. I got to get out and do it.

All right. We may make that happen as well. John, thank you for coming on, brother. Blessings, guys. Appreciate y'all. Thanks, John. That was awesome. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.