Ep 1044 | Jase Sparks Controversy with His New Look & Where Do We Go When We Die?
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I am unashamed. What about you? Did you say you brought comedy? Yeah. This is what happens when people laugh.

This won't be stand-up comedy. This will be sit-down comedy. Because we're all sitting. Zach, we're all sitting. That's why. Yeah, we'll be the judge of that, Jason. So we'll be the judge of whether it's funny or not. Okay, I'll introduce the show today, Matty. I feel like I need some music. We'll call this segment... Can you start talking fast like that? Oh, no, I can't. My voice is not...

Up to par with Zach's ad reads, although he has been improving. He is. He's getting his rhythm. We'll do mail call, mail call. What's in the mail? That was my little jingle, Matty. I feel like I need a song. Matty, could you sing it? Well, so here's what happened. We're having to do...

Podcasting. Because one member of our team is like traveling a lot. Well, we're having to do them in consecutive days. So even though this is spread out in your world, Unashamed Nation, in our world, it seems like I've never left this room. So we're doing like, we're trying to set the Guinness Book of World Records for most consecutive days doing two podcasts, double barrel style. Yeah.

So this is like multiple days. So I get home yesterday after the podcast, and we were planning a birthday party for the little one that we have. Is this three? It's three. Wow. Oh, yeah. And it went by so fast. It was dubbed the fire truck birthday party. Of course. And so he's into fire trucks. So, Missy, when I walked in, shocking.

that a human being could transform our house into flames, buildings. All of this was boxes and what do you call all this stuff? It looked like buildings. You know that big chandelier-looking thing over our dinner table? It looked like it was on fire, literal fire. It was crazy. There were fire trucks everywhere.

So she started hollering from the kitchen while she's cooking dinner for everyone. And I said, I thought this was going to be a dinner. This is a party. Because she was like, oh, no, it's no big deal. No big deal. Oh, it's become a big deal. So she started giving me. You don't decorate for no big deal. She started giving me jobs. And I was like, oh, am I your assistant in the kitchen?

So we kind of had a little bit of marriage. You know how it goes. And I was like, she basically wants me to help do something.

It's called a sous chef in the cooking world. Yeah, I took the garbage out and I did something. Well, I thought, well, I'll go ahead and get the mail because it was really cold and wet yesterday. And today, too. Not much better today. It's miserable. So I get the mail and there's two packages. You can't make this up. That's why I'm saying this. I brought comedy to the podcast today because you cannot make this up.

99% of the times when I look at the address on who the packages are to, it is not me. Yeah.

I don't want to point at any members of my family. There's only one other person who lives there. I didn't hear that. 99.5. Well, you took your hat off and now you can't hear it. Come on, Elmer. Get that hat back on. 99.5% of the packages that come do not have my name on it.

I'm just saying on these packages. And we're not going to tell you who the 99.5 or 4, but there's only one other person that lives there, so you figure it out. So, but both of these had my name on it. And I thought, oh, I haven't ordered anything. So I opened the first package, and it was a sippy cup. Evidently, on a previous podcast, I had said something about faulty sippy cups in my babysitting duties.

I have no recollection of that. If I was in a court of law, but evidently I did because I read the note. I did, Matty? Yeah. Okay, so that was an episode. Matty remembers everything. How do you do this many hours of podcast and remember everything? She might have looked it up in 10 seconds. These young kids today, they go...

Yeah, they're like one step ahead of me. Their thumbs, look, their thumbs move like Zach talks on an ad. Bewildering speed. Actually, Zach, I got a letter the other day from the people who made the chipmunks.

uh, claim to fame. Yeah. And they said, look, do you think you can talk Zach into reading ads for us? If we come out with the show again, I made that up. Zach, Zach. That was all made up. So it's a, it was a Sibica. It looked like a Yeti cup. And I thought Yeti sent me a cup cause I, I'm an ambassador for Yeti. We've had a long relationship with them and, uh,

which I like, just full transparency. Because it kind of looked like that. But you know what I thought the joke was? Because you know what the name of the cup was? I'm giving them free advertisements, and I haven't even tried it out, so I'm just telling you. But you know how this gets me. It said the Miracle Cup.

And I thought, well, you had me, and then you lost me. The Miracle Cup. I feel like I can talk about this positively and negatively because I have not tried it. It's still in the package, and here's why. Because that was a birthday party. Why didn't you give it?

to the little kid missy's like we're not giving that to him it came out of the mail i was like but they didn't know it was his birthday this is a sign that's right how would 100 agree with you this came from the almighty this they didn't know it was his birthday yeah it was a miracle i have not said anything about it being his birthday am i right maddie

So I thought that was interesting, but she wouldn't let me do it. She's like, we have plenty of presents. And I think deep down, she didn't want him to like say, Oh, the cup and then make all her presents. She didn't want the cup to overside the room full of fire equipment. Having said this, it was a wonderful party. Okay. And true to form, you know what the number one thing he played with was because he had all kinds of presents and,

A lot of our family and neighbors. I'd say one of the decorations. One of the decorations. The boxes that looked like buildings on fire at the fire truck. Yeah. Because he thought there's more presence in those boxes. So he kept pointing at the boxes. I mean, I want the buildings. I want the buildings. I was always going to put the fire out. No, he wanted to open all the boxes that were supposed to be buildings. So anyway, it was funny. But we had a great time.

Haven't said that. Package number two. Now we'll have to cue some other music because just when you thought the story of the infamous trial, prosecution, seatbelt,

story was dead. Matty, you thought that was dead. We thought it was over. By thought, you mean hope. We hoped it was dead. No, Matty literally tried to kill this story. And guess what? Unashamed Nation has brought it back. Oh, boy. It's Unashamed Nation yet again. Matty, the people have spoken. Or at least a person has spoken. And now I had a jingle for the first part. Now I feel like I need some...

because I am going to disrobe on Unashamed Nation and have a revealing. Oh, boy. So cue some music. That's why, look. I suggest Marvin Gaye or Barry White. I actually wore my Yeti jacket because I don't have a shirt that buttons. I looked in my whole closet. No button. I do not own a button-up shirt. I was going to do the buttons.

Somebody bought you one, but you didn't want to wear corduroy, but that's another topic. So I get this in the mail, and I have it on my body. Oh, boy. And I'm now going to reveal it, because I want to appreciate Unashamed Nation, and I also want to say, like the other package, you feel like, oh, this is nice, and yet disturbing. Yeah.

So I love our audience for those two reasons because this, what I'm fixing to reveal, I'm waiting for the music. I feel like we need some kind of... I would suggest the first 20 seconds of Marvin Gaye, Let's Get It On. Let's get it on. All right. So for you listening, I am unzipping the jacket. And I got this in the mail.

And it is actually a shirt that someone in our disturbed world has made. That is so good. That simulates you having a seatbelt on.

When you do not. Wow. If you're not watching, he's got on a white T-shirt with a black seatbelt printed on, like it's strapped in. You know what's disturbing? Someone in Unashamed Nation has hit a home run today. You know what's disturbing? Is this is an actual product.

In our world. Really? Oh, yeah. It was like the seatbelt shirt. Oh, to make it look like you're wearing a seatbelt. I didn't even see it as being a deceptive idea. I know. This is about circumventing the law. This is. And I saw another one online. I don't know if this is true or not, but I saw it on Instagram, so it must be true. You can take your license plate. You can order the numbers or the letters on your license plate.

And then they send you a sticker in the mail and you take the sticker and you put it on top of your number. And what happens is when you go through these cameras, you know, where they check you're running a red light or something. I've never ran a red light.

I don't believe that. Anyways, when it takes the picture, it somehow doesn't come up on the camera. So you can basically circumvent the wall. It tricks the camera. What's the verse, Jace? They invent ways of doing evil. That's what Jace is doing. He's wearing a t-shirt to circumvent. I just thought it was a joke. Wait a minute.

I didn't buy this t-shirt. I didn't go out and pursue this. Someone sent this to me and I put it on because I thought...

We're bringing it back. We're bringing the story. I will put my jacket back on because it's a little chilly in here. It is a little chilly. But I just thought I would reveal that, and thank you, Unashamed Nation, for bringing it back. I think it was in the spirit of the resurrection. Come on. So I'm not supporting, condoning, or endorsing because Zach interrupted me mid-sentence. I've never run a red light between the hours of 5 a.m.,

And 12 midnight. And as you made painfully clear in the telling and retelling of the seatbelt story, you thought you were legal on that. I thought I was not breaking the law. I mean, look. In Jace's defense, he thought he was doing something. I quit breaking the law purposely many years ago. Right. So. Oh, that's good. I mean, I don't know the purpose of it, but whoever sent that, kudos to you.

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centered discipleship to 30 children in an underserved community. That's tomorrowclubs.org slash unashamed. And remember, all gifts are tax deductible. I think they were trolling you. I think that was a troll. I don't know what that means. Explain what a troll is. Hold on for our audience. Everybody who knows me, when we troll, that means we have some baits out behind the boat.

And we're catching fish. Kind of similar. They're baiting you. That's what it originally meant. Yeah, they're trolling. They're messing with you. I got accused of being an internet troll one time. When I ran for Congress, there was an article that said I was a former internet troll.

Because I had questions. They ran through some of my tweets, and they're like, oh, this guy was good. I'd respond back on Twitter. This is not real. You've now entered a fantasy world of the internet where you're coming up with words that are now relating to something that's really not real.

Right. But I will say this about just the dashers in general. If you probably looked up the history of the word dasher, troll is probably in there. Oh,

Because you talk about troll for trouble. Yeah, well, you guys aren't far behind. In fact, you are just more like subtle, not even subtle. I don't know. You have a way of doing it. Well, you have a trolling motor. You can put that on the front of the boat and go. Which, to James' point, at least that is an actual thing. A trolling motor is an actual thing. But I'm just saying, Robertson's troll in the other way as well –

the way y'all do it, see, dashers are up front. We just come right at you. What you guys do, Phil's the, he was the best at it. He would talk to someone, uh,

but he's messing with the, like he's looking to the left, talking to the person on the left. That's true. But he's trolling the person on the right. It's very effective, by the way. While you were getting upset over a non-human, probably an artificial, intelligent image of a creation that went wrong, and you were getting stressed out about something they said and deeming it as trolling, I was actually trolling catching fish.

You were catching real fish. That I was going to put in my body. Thus, I'm eating more healthy and I don't have to...

Way to tie it back together, Jeff. All these diets. Yeah. And I want you to continue to do that because I've been the recipient of your trolling on many occasions. Thank you. And I'm appreciative. So I'm not chastising you for your form of trolling. That's why I'm pushing back on this because trolling is a positive thing. It will put fresh fish in your belly. Yeah.

You turned it into a negative because I didn't turn it in. I just, I report, you decide. Well, but they lured you in to the fantasy world of, Oh, I'm having an argument with somebody that might not be a body. So here's, I got one question before we leave this topic. Cause I'm intrigued and I have been humored today. Did, what did Missy say about this gift? Cause I know she said something.

Yep. I'll just give you one word. Ridiculous. That is ridiculous. In fact, when I got up this morning, I almost walked out and forgot the shirt because it got part of the...

that was her preparing for the party last night, which I couldn't find my phone charger. I couldn't go to bed last night because I hadn't charged my phone in two days. And it was just, I thought, I got to get up in the morning. We had had the little man. I had studied late, which the stuff that we're fixing to talk about could possibly blow your mind. Yeah.

Because I was sleep deprived. I'd been under the weather. And you know how you just come up with these crazy things, you know, in the Bible? Yeah. Because we left off at Jacob's Ladder. We did. That's where we're going to go. Let me tell you something. We're fixing to go on a ladder ride. And Jace has a seatbelt to hold him in, this seat. Well, I said, where's my shirt? And she's like, what shirt? I said, the seatbelt shirt.

And she went, roll the eyes. It's, you know, go through room, this room, take a left, go here. There's a little deal. Yeah. I'm like, which how do they know that? Cause she wouldn't put it. Well, she put it there.

I know. But I was like, why didn't you just put it in my closet? Rearrange and stuff. But they always know where it's at. That's what I'm saying. I go and look because it was someplace I remembered leaving something. It's not there. And Lisa always knows where it is. She said, I'm not putting. Look under the third magazine. Exactly. How do they know that? She said, I'm not putting an illegal shirt in your closet. Oh.

See, what's funny is I didn't even go there when I first saw it. I just thought somebody made this up, and I thought, somebody is brilliant. No, it's a thing. No, I got it. I got it. I don't look at the nefarious. It's thrilling yet disturbing, which is our audience. So thank you. I'm glad to be a part of it. You keep life interesting. It's awesome. It's very funny.

And I hate, I can't remember the name of the person who sent it. Well, I figured since you didn't say it, you forgot. But you know who you are because you sent it. So they're having a big time right now remembering that. I've been wearing my seatbelt. I actually have had two other encounters with said officer because it's like the place now. I notice where he's at.

I look for him now because of your instance. I've continued to wave, and I have gotten zero response. Not a tip of the hat, not a smile. It's just...

Looking straight ahead as I roll by. Well, that's where we're at in our relationship. What's funny is he probably has no memory of Jason. He doesn't even remember. He's giving so many chickens out. Once you see this, you never forget it. Yeah. All right. So we got to get back to John 1.

I want to take a ride on the ladder. On the ladder. Let's read the John 151. Because you said Zach had some interesting things that he wanted to talk about Jacob's Ladder. Well, let me set it up because there were a couple of things I didn't get to say on the last podcast.

Which some people may be confused, Al, on why we're talking about Jacob's Ladder in John chapter 1. Exactly. Well, we ended the podcast last time, and I had to add in, Al, you tried to shut me down at the end. Like, we're out of time, but I added a little 30 seconds on the end. No, it was three and a half minutes. Yeah, that you said two seconds. We remember it well. Give me two seconds, three minutes. It was about like you losing 1.5 pounds. It was in the margin of error.

So we were talking about the calling of the disciples. We're in John 1, right at the end of the chapter. And Jesus runs up on one of these guys who is Nathaniel. And what's interesting is Nathaniel, we didn't get into this, but I want to set it up before we get to Jacob's letter. He apparently had been sitting under a tree, which I did a little bit of a dive on this, Jason. You know, they had a picture that showed these fig trees and what they look like, you know, over in Israel.

And so they're big, bushy trees. And so a lot of times these guys would sit and either just pray and contemplate, or sometimes if they were well enough alone, they would actually have a scroll, you know, to be able to read different parts of the Old Testament with the Torah. And so apparently this is the kind of guy Nathaniel is. I think it's not even apparent. This...

Because when I went to Israel, I looked at the trees and I thought, well, Nathaniel was under a tree. That's it. About like this. About like that. And so Jesus recognizes it and tells him that. And it's like, to me, it's almost, and we didn't get into this, but it's almost humorous to me because Nathaniel has already made a slur comment towards where Jesus is from. What good thing come out of Nazareth? And by the way, he's from Cana.

which is about four miles away, they think, from Nazareth. And so this is kind of the better part of town he's from, to use our illustration. And we find out he's from Cana in like chapter 20. And that's also, by the way, where this next miracle comes in, or the first miracle in John 2, and the second one in John 4, which is kind of ironic. They both happen in Cana. ♪

So, Jace, we're always looking for a good movie. You saw one called Last Breath. Tell us about that. I did. I watched Last Breath, and Missy watched it with me, and it's an incredible movie.

True story, which I always love true stories. It's well acted. The cinematography is great. Woody Harrelson is in it. He's a great actor. But it's really the story. I mean, it was just a true story that really makes you wonder, how does this happen?

And I really liked it. I thought they did a good job. So as Jay said, it's based on extraordinary true events. Last Breath tells the story of a deep sea diver trapped at the bottom of the ocean. The diver has only 10 minutes of oxygen left, so he struggles to navigate the pitch black abyss while his teammates devising a daring plan to save him from certain death.

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is a life or death moment. Incredible performances, astonishing visuals, and an uplifting emotional core. This is a great movie you don't want to miss. Witness the most thrilling motion picture event of the year on the big screen by getting your tickets now for Last Breath. It's rated PG-13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. It opens February 28th in theaters everywhere. Check it out.

Also, I'd add that the tree, the fig tree is also symbolic of, if you look at the Old Testament, there's like, I got three different verses here, but it's a symbolic symbol.

like a common symbol for Israel. This is Hosea 9-11. When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert. When I saw your ancestors, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree. Or another one in Micah 4-4, everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree. So there's all these texts in the Old Testament. So you got to think about this conversation is about Israel being

And this is a common symbol for Israel. That's a good point. And that's why it's connected to this Jacob's ladder. Yeah. Which is why Jesus said, look, an Israelite who... The NIV reads, here's a true Israelite in whom there's nothing false. And I thought it was interesting because a way you could phrase this, and some of the other versions say this, is like, here's a guy who tells it like it is.

And so, and he had already been like disparaging. And if Jesus goes back pre-disparage when he saw him under the tree, he's kind of letting him know. And I know that you've been talking about me, which I thought was kind of funny. His identification here is that this guy is, he has a faithful Israelite. So he's building out this picture of what that looks like. And then he says in verse 48, and I'm leading us up to where we're going today. How do you know me?

Nathaniel asked, well, I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you. He said, I've known you for a long time, son. Then Nathaniel all of a sudden goes from what good thing can come from Nazareth to, Rabbi, you are the son of God. You are the king of Israel. I mean, you talk about a hairpin turnaround. This is like, what good thing could come from Nazareth to you are the king?

Yeah, because I think scholars believe that he had this moment under this tree, epiphany, whatever. And now Jesus is bringing this up. He confirms it. He's like, well, how do you know it? And then what a lot of scholars say, I tend to agree, is then when Jesus said, you believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree, you shall see greater things than that. I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending.

On the Son of Man. So a lot of scholars are saying, not only did he see him under the tree, he knew what he was thinking about, which is the story of Jacob's ladder, which he's now saying in a crude translation, I am that ladder. Yeah, exactly. Between heaven and earth. Because that's why I read that last podcast in Genesis 28, because Jacob had this vision.

And you remember the story. I mean, he was running from his brother. He had been deceitful and all that. Now his brother's trying to kill him because he stole his birthright. And by the way, this vision he had is actually four chapters. I'm not sure about the timing because I hadn't read it recently, but it's before he sort of has his moment in Genesis 32 where he wrestles with this person

or angel or whatever it was he wrestled with and then kind of comes to this new place of going from a deceiver to, you know, Israel. God even changed his name. If you think about the ladder or the stairway, it's...

What that is, it is the connection point between heaven and earth. And so they're going up and down on this ladder or staircase. That is what connects heaven and earth. It's symbolic, by the way, of the temple as well, which is a place where heaven and earth meet. So you got to think, the whole point here is, what is the connection point between heaven and

And in Jacob's ladder, it was a ladder. And to your point, Jesus then becomes a ladder. So where the angels are climbing on a physical ladder between heaven and earth, Jesus becomes the thing that we move upon in between heaven. He connects heaven and earth itself. I think that's a very provocative thought.

But it seems to flow in line with everything that Jesus is about to do in his unfolding ministry. True. The rabbit hole I wanted to go down. And I've heard lessons on this, and I do not claim to know everything about what I'm fixed to introduce.

Remember, this was a sleep-deprived, party-induced study. It was that study. I'm just setting the context. But these things I have looked into before, and I've heard various preachers preach on these subjects, and I've listened to a lot of them. Even our buddy, who is Mackie, I remember hearing a lesson he did about this one time. So what I was going to say is,

that when you think about all the times that something like this happened with Jacob's ladder, where you have Jacob either asleep or you think about Revelation 1 when John the Revelator is fixing to have this revelation. Well, remember, he says he was in the Spirit. Yeah. And then he sees something kind of crazy.

I mean, I'll just read it. But I just wanted to get y'all's thoughts on this, and I'll tell you what I think. But let's just kind of look at this. When he says in verse, let's see, where does it say he was in the? He was on an island. That's in verse 9. He was on the island of Patmos. It was the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. On the Lord's day, I was in the Spirit. And so he has this kind of vision.

Well, the vision gets kind of crazy in verse 13 because he saw among these lampstands someone like a son of man. Well, the reason I'm bringing this up is because we just read that in John 1 where he said Jacob's ladder. Who's going to be...

Part of this ladder with angels coming up and down from it says the son of man. Yeah. And he told Nathaniel, you're going to see that. Well, then we went to Jacob's ladder. And when did he see this vision? Well, when he was asleep. Well, now he, this John's in the spirit. We're at the end of the book. Yeah. There's got to be a connection here. Yeah. And so look what he sees. He sees the son of man dressed in a robe, reaching down to his feet.

and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow. His eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. And it goes on to say he had a sharp double-edged sword coming out of his mouth. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. And when I saw him,

I fell at his feet as though dead. And then he placed his right hand on me and said, don't be afraid. You know, I'm the first. I am. Here we go. That we talked about that last time. I am the first and last. I am the living one. I was dead and behold, I am alive forever and ever. That was three I am's in the verse. And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Now here's what's interesting. I want to make another point. When he gets to chapter two,

In verse, where's that at? Verse 7. Look what he says here. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes. Now watch this little phrase. I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. You say, why are you bringing this up? Well, there's another, this word paradise is not used very many times in the Bible.

So what's the most famous time it's used? Today you'll be with me in paradise. That's it.

So two months ago, I started taking field of greens. Somebody told me this, that if your fingernails have like ridges on them, which mine did, that's a sign of malnutrition. I didn't know that. Did you know that, Chase? I did not. Well, I started taking field of greens and guess what? My fingernails are smooth now. My hair's growing. Guess what? I'm not wearing a hat today. Al, have you tried this or is Lisa? I think you said Lisa's on it, right? Yeah, Lisa was really intrigued. I've got it. For those of you that are watching, I have one of the jars here on set and she's loving it.

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I've heard these lessons. I've looked at the Greek words. So when you say, well, what does that word mean? So the Greek word is like Paradiso, which is basically what we did was take a Greek word, use English letters to get paradise. But when you say, what is Paradiso in Hebrew? Well, it means, would you believe this? Garden. So some of the lessons I've heard is when he says, well,

Today you will be with me in paradise. Well, that he's, and one of the lessons I heard, I think it was Mackie who gave this. He's like, well, he said that is a future occurrence because they're fixed to die. Today you will be with me in paradise once we're dead. So he asked a question, which I thought was a real interesting question. He said, when is paradise? And he went through that same little definition of the word. And he's like,

Why does he bring up garden? Well, we know to any Jew, when you bring up the word garden, where do you immediately go? Garden of Eden. Garden of Eden. Well, you go to the Garden of Eden, which is what he did. So he's like, well, so is it fixing to happen? Or did it already happen in the past? So he put that up there.

If he's talking about the guard. He didn't say fixin'. He probably said, is it about to happen? Fixin'. That's all one word. Fixin'. But the key phrase that he brought out, which I'm going to bring out, is just like here in Revelation, he, when John had his vision, he has this view of Jesus. Well, look, this is not weird in Scripture, right?

If you turn to Ezekiel 8, you see a similar occurrence. And I'd like to read that, the first three verses. And I want to point out something, that when Jesus said today, there's a little phrase before he says paradise. He says, you'll be with me. And all of a sudden, when you tie this in to John seeing this image of, who is the image that John saw in Revelation 1?

Son of man. Son of man. Who was that? Jesus. Jesus. The resurrected Jesus. And even, I'm not even bringing up the story of Daniel and the fiery furnace. You remember there was three guys in the fiery furnace. And then who showed up? The son. Well, there was one like the son of man, a fire. I'm not even bringing that one up, but I just thought I'd mention it. So Ezekiel 8, you read this. I think this is fascinating. Ezekiel 8.

And you have, okay, and I think this is Ezekiel 8. In the sixth month, this is verse 1. On the fifth day, while I was sitting in my house. Now we have John was on the island of Patmos.

And now you got a guy in, where is this at? Mesopotamia. No, that was Jacob and Jacob's Ladder. He was just out in a field. Well, now we got a guy in a house. And by the way, this was written probably 600 to 700 years before John saw his deal. Yeah. He was sitting before the hand, let's see,

I was sitting in my house and the elders of Judah were sitting before me. The hand of the sovereign Lord came upon me there. So that's kind of like that in the spirit. Yeah. And I looked and I saw a figure like that of a man. Well, that sounds interesting. Where's this going? From what appeared to be his waist down, he was like fire. Well, that seems to be something that's commonly happening here. And from there, uh,

His appearance was as bright as glowing metal. He stretched out what looked like a hand and took me by the hair of my head. That sounds painful. The Spirit lifted me up. Now, watch this phrase. Some versions say land and sky, between earth and heaven. And in visions of God, he took me to Jerusalem. Now, where exactly is that, between earth and heaven? Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.

Now, I want to read one other thing before I give you the next piece to this puzzle, because I didn't read the Genesis 28 because I read it last time. But I do want to zero in on one theme. I think I read it last podcast. But when Jacob's on the ladder or having the vision about the ladder.

It says in verse 13, there above it stood the Lord. And I said, I am the Lord, the God of your father. I will give you. So it's, we're back to this. I am, which is famous for Jesus. Man, we have the seven I ams and I added an eighth. Well, guess where the only place, the only other place, the new Testament uses that word paradise. I've already read you the one in revelation too.

Then there's the one in Luke where he said, today you'll be in paradise. Well, there's one other. It's only three times. It's in 2 Corinthians. I'm doing pretty good just from memory, remembering all this. 2 Corinthians 12. Now, I want to read this.

Verse 1, I must go on boasting. Verse 1, although this is Paul talking. There's nothing to be gained. I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. Now watch what he says. And most scholars believe he's actually talking about himself because of what comes up later in the paragraph. He said, I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was called up to the third heaven.

Whether it was in the body or out of the body, I do not know. God knows. And I know that this man, whether in the body or apart from the body,

I do not know, but God knows. Meaning that was he actually teleported there or was he just... Well, we're back to this in the spirit dream or now because... I mean, you kind of think in this case, he was just praying and this happened. But then when you notice the key verse in verse four, here's our word again, was called up to paradise, which he seems to use heaven and paradise synonymously here. Now...

Because he said third heaven. And then he actually said he heard inexpressible things that man is not permitted to tell. And I'll boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself except about my weakness. Which is a clever way of saying it. Which is him saying, I could boast about that, but since that was me in the third person, I'm not going to boast about it.

Clever. So I want to bring this up. So you say, well, how do you tie this together? Well, isn't it interesting that the word being used, garden, because I want to go back to that. In Revelation 2, when he used the word paradise, he throws in that tree of life. Well, isn't it ironic that in the last chapter, which when Jesus said, today you will be with me in paradise,

and you go back and realize he used the word for garden, Hebrew word, which if we are agreeing, that could be what happened in Genesis 1 and 2. When you get to Revelation 21...

And he now has this vision of what would you call this future, future? Remember the question, when is paradise? So he said, well, it could have been in the past because it could have been in the garden. It could have been in the future because they were fixed to die. But here, watch what happens. When he saw John, who had already mentioned this in chapter one and two, a reference to the son of man having this vision. When I saw a new heaven, a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth that passed away,

To Zach's point,

Jesus seems to be implying that, remember that ladder, that Jacob's ladder, that you had the vision, and I'm that ladder. I'm the heaven and earth coming together through me. I'm the place where God and humans meet. Well, now, all of a sudden, we go to the future of future. This seems to be what the future holds for people who are indwelled by the Spirit of Christ. Heaven and earth comes together. It's...

However you want to, I have trouble describing this because however you want to describe that, it's a new heaven and new earth. We have new bodies. We're indestructible now. We live. All right. We can eat fish. Yeah. They will be as people. God would be himself. But notice what he does when you get to chapter 21 and verse 22, it says, I didn't see a temple in the city because the Lord God almighty and the lamb are its temple and

The city does not need the sun and the moon to shine on it for the glory of the God. Glory of God gives it light. The lamb is the lamp. Okay. The nations walk by the light. But when he gets to 22, look, what does he bring up? The tree of life and the garden.

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Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life as crystal, clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life. That's why I read that Revelation 2. And you say, well, what was the significance of that? Well, you remember where this all went wrong with Adam and Eve? There was a tree and there was some fruit on it.

And they wanted the knowledge of good and evil. And that didn't go well. But now here's Jesus hung on a tree, which even Paul referenced him as the first fruits, you know, from the dead many times, you know, fruit on a tree, tree of life. Remember the tree of life was in the garden. It was also there. And it was keeping them alive. We were assuming it was right there close to the other one. And now Jesus on the tree of life enabled us by, you know, through forgiveness, atonement,

triumphing over the evil powers, all that. Triumphing over death. Then his resurrection, triumphing over death. It's the fruit of the tree of life, which we are. So then it says, and on each side of the rivers to the tree of life, look at this, bearing 12 crops of fruit. We're back to a garden. And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations, no longer fruit.

Will there be any curse? The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. So what does that next verse say? There will be no more night. Oh, they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads, and there'll be no more night. So because he's the light. You're going back to John 1. So that was kind of the rendition. So his question was, when was it the past? Was it?

in the imminent future or was it the future of futures here? And he, and he put, yes, which I thought was hilarious. I wasn't ready for that. And then he put where, and then he went through all these locations and,

And he put, like, was it on the island? Was it in the field at Jacob's Ladder? Was it at the house? Was it in Jerusalem? Yeah, was it when Paul was in this room praying? And he went, exactly. And his point was, which I thought was a very good point, and like I said, I'm not defending it. I'm just putting it out here for your views. His point was that he believes that there is a realm,

where God exists and Jesus is when it says at the right hand of God, that our five senses can't, whatever you want to use that word. I'm having trouble with the English language. We can't. They can't access it. We can't access, but it's not far. Yeah. Because all these things are happening and it's always happening in a spirit of consciousness. Now, his point was,

That we've lived in this world and it's been shaped by all the earthly kingdoms and everything we see and that we can't see it. But all these people in moments of vulnerability and deep prayer and this special relationship with God or God using these people in special instances to proclaim him, have this encounter and this vision and this. He's like, but the point is, it's not as far as you think this realm.

And I really thought it was beautiful. He kind of made an analogy of being on a mountaintop because he went to the Transfiguration. He's like, what was that all about? Well, here we're back to the fire. You have these two guys who had controversial deaths. One, they couldn't find Moses' body. The other, Elijah just went up. So now you see them in their form of...

being in contact with the eternal son. And that's the phrase he used. The son is, he is now eternal and it's all around us in this. We have his spirit. He's, uh,

on our behalf, the principalities, you know, about the struggle all in Ephesians and all that. So that was that. And I thought, man, you want to talk about Jacob's Ladder? I mean, I think they did a movie about it, Hollywood, which I never saw it because it was rated R. You watch rated R movies, you probably saw it. Did you ever see that? I didn't see that movie, but I have watched a few rated R movies. Yeah.

But you've never done that. I do remember watching Halloween at your house when I was about six years old. Well, I was raised in an environment of my parents were young Christians, and they didn't look at the letters on movies. That was our Christmas surprise every year. I heard N.T. Wright speak on this recently, and he said,

talked about this idea of paradise. He said, when Jesus told the thief on the cross, today you'll be with me in paradise,

And jokingly, it was kind of funny. He said, well, he wasn't going to be there long, though, because he came out of the grave three days later. But it was like the intermediate place, and everybody kind of chuckled. But where is it? Where are your loved ones at who have died, those who are in Christ? Which I thought about my mom. I was thinking about all that. But the way he described it is similar to kind of how Dallas Willard talks about heaven being like,

It's like it's not. He said there's this thin veil between heaven and earth. And it's it's it's we just can't see it yet. But it's here like heaven's here. And the way I thought about it when he was talking about it, this is probably a horrible analogy. I'm going to try it, though. It's like that show Stranger Things where there's this.

other realm called the upside down, which is kind of like an inverse of the actual real world that they live in. But it's like a, but it's like the dark side of this world. It's like that, but the opposite, it's just a very, very thin veil. And what's going to happen at the consummation of the kingdom is all of that's going to be just torn that, that, that it's going to be, it's going to be disclosed full disclosure. Um,

And Jesus, the way I understand this text is that Jesus is a prototype. Not prototype. He is the connection between those two worlds. He is now the latter. First fruits. And prototype's not a bad word. I want to read one verse because we're almost out of time, but very intriguing what Jesus brought up. I like this verse.

sleep deprived induced thought. Maybe you were in the spirit last night. I might've been. So here's the verse I thought of when you were doing this. It just, cause I just preached on this, man. It was, it's so powerful into what you just talked about. This Ephesians three 10, his intent to my gods was that now he

which there's a time and place through the church. So this revealing at the first century of Jesus' death, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms according to his eternal purpose, which he accomplished in Jesus Christ our Lord. Then he goes on to talk more. And I just, it hit me on that phrase, the idea about that veil, not just from our side of the equation, but also from the other side of the equation. Oh, I agree.

And that we have a role in testifying. And that they want to look at us, yes. That's powerful. And that word manifold, I think it's better translated, I've heard, as like colorful expression. It's a picture of something very beautiful and colorful. Which is what I read. And look, whether you agree with what, I really don't have a stance on all the details of that. I just read all those verses where those things happen.

What I like about it and what I do have a stance on is that it makes you realize God is not far. Think of the sermon Paul preached in Acts 17, like we think he's a million miles away. But it's a focus on Jesus. And all those pastors, there was an encounter with one God.

who looked like the Son of Man. And we all know who that is. And when you think about what I didn't read in Revelation, which I think is very powerful, but that verse that says, he was, he is, and is to come. Mm-hmm.

Where is that in Revelation? I think that's... That's right after Alpha and Omega, I think. Yeah, and when you think about even the verse that says, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And so when he says, hey, today you'll be with me, that's enough for me. In paradise, oh, what exactly does that mean? But I know if you're with Jesus, and I know when you have his spirit, he says he'll be with you forever.

All right. We're out of time, man. Good stuff. We'll pick it up here next time. Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.