Ep 1047 | Jase Opens up About a Major Hurt in His Marriage & the Biggest Lie Satan Tells Couples
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. Jace, in the five minutes of interim between the last podcast and this one, we have traded crazy for beauty because we had Cy, who is not beautiful, but he is a little bit crazy and fun for Lisa, my bride. I'm going to have to push back there. Uh-oh. Yep.

Let me hear this. I should have said this while Cy was here. So I've traveled with, obviously, all my family members all over the world. What I've found fascinating, this is how many wonders of the world? Seven. There's seven. Well, here's number eight. Seven ancient wonders. No, we already had eight. Tracer was number eight. Yeah.

That is true. We have jokingly said that Tracee Lee, who had worked as a model, among other things. I mean, she's like six foot tall, blonde hair. Beautiful. Beautiful. Very intelligent. And so you look at Cy, you look at Tracee, and you say, there's the eighth wonder of the world. Maybe it makes up. Let me give you the ninth wonder of the world is that

I mean, Si's married happily. Been married for what? Almost 50 years now. Almost 50 years. I am shocked at the amount of women who love Si. Yeah. Like, uncomfortably, when I'm in public with him, I have seen women come up and kiss Si on the cheek.

And he'll bring up his wife, but there's something about Cy that they don't feel awkward, creepy, or threatened. They love Cy. But it's not his beauty. It's his inner. It has to be beauty. Inner beauty. It's that inner beauty that he has. And he's funny. Yeah. And he's sweet. Right. And he's very kind. Lisa still laughs at my jokes. But would you agree with that? I agree. I have seen...

Hundreds of women. Good looking women. I mean, everyone is made by God. I don't want to. But I'm just saying it's shocking. And I'm like, really?

Because it's like almost uncomfortable. And then Sal's like, come here, darling. Oh, he's just like. And his wife is like, well, because I brought that up to her one time. She actually, yeah. She's like, he's irresistible. Yeah, that's what she says. I can't blame those poor women. So it is kind of frustrating. So this is interesting, Jason. I'm so glad you brought this up. So Lisa and I just did an appearance in Bethany, Missouri.

which is about an hour and a half north of Kansas City, which just for future reference, babe, when we're signing events, to go north of Kansas City in February is,

It's probably something we need to really just pray about next time. And to go to Kansas City area after the Super Bowl loss. And I even said, I was more worried if they had won because there had been a parade. We'd have got into all that. But anyway, we got there. It was 12 degrees.

Was there a riot going on? No riot. Everybody was disappointed and bummed. But they won so many, it wasn't even that bad. But we got there, it was 12 in the Kansas City. Then we're going an hour and a half north. So that was even colder. And when we left, it was 12. We're not really built for 12 with a northwest wind 20 miles an hour. It was rough. So we did this event.

And there were two things that happened that I want to share. And one of them is funny that you said this about Cy. So there was a very nice lady came up. We were doing like a little VIP, people that paid a little extra to the event, which was offered to raise funds for a pregnancy center, which we love. It was a Valentine's Day marriage event. But everything they made, they had a silent auction and a live auction. They were donating to this PRC, this Pregnancy Resource Center, that was there. So it was awesome. This lady came up.

which she's telling me, she and her husband, that they had seen Willie, and they showed me a picture of Willie. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry, you know, that he's the first person you met. You know, just kind of making fun. I said the ugly brother. Yeah, she said the ugly brother. And so we're talking about that, and they're telling me how much they love this life surge, which is what Willie's doing now. And there's a bunch of business people. It's kind of a Christian business thing Willie's into now. But I know some of the other people, and two of them are the Benham brothers, which I love. They're from North Carolina.

and they've been on the podcast before, they're twins. I mean, exact replica twins. I only really know them apart by their wives. That's the only way I can tell them apart. Well, they always have this running joke with me. They'll say the ugly brother, talking about their brother. Well, they look exactly alike, so it's kind of a running gag. So I asked this woman, I said, well, which one was the ugliest brother? Well, I was talking about the Benhams because we were talking about the Benhams. And she said, I guess Uncle Si. Yeah.

And I started laughing. And I was like, no, I meant between the bitums. And she said, oh, oh, oh, okay. And I was like, but you think Uncle Si's the ugliest? And she said, oh, please don't tell him that. I said, I'm going to say it on the podcast. I meant to say it when Si was here, but now he's gone, so it's good. We didn't hurt his feelings. But he would have gotten a big laugh out of it. He would have. So she was like mortified. So now I'm telling the story. I know she's listening. So that's the story. The second thing, Jayce.

So we did the live auction after we spoke and it was great. I mean, a lot of people, a lot of great response to what we did. So they did this live auction afterwards. And so I had a duck call and,

that I forgot to pack in my suitcase. And this is the Jace Pro Series, and it's Tiger Wood. And I just thought about that, Jace, but did y'all name this Tiger Wood before Tiger Woods became famous? No, Tiger Woods was named after Tiger Wood. Tiger Woods been here.

I was wondering who came first. Okay, Tiger Wood came before Tiger Woods. Yeah. Okay, good. So that's this duck call. And so we had a picture of it. And so they auctioned it off. Well, they raised $15,000 for this pregnancy center, which was awesome. And this was the largest bid on item ever.

And they had a signed Chiefs jersey from the running back, all these things. This duck call just – Maybe they thought it was Tiger Woods. Maybe they did. This duck call I'm holding in my hand that Leroy bid on and won was $2,900. Oh, my gosh.

is what he did. So about halfway through the bidding, it was this Leroy and some other person that kept upping each other. And I said, well, I'm going to get Dad and Jace to sign it. So I got Dad to sign it yesterday. So I want you to sign it and put your little gospel. Well, I already signed it. I know. It's already on there. I want you to do it, Jace, in the gospel symbols. But it's engraved. Yeah. Did Phil blow it?

No. No. No. I mean, for $2,900, I was just going to check it and make sure. There's no gold in it. No gold. No gold. But I'm going to. There's a couple little things you can do just to. So we're getting a duck call upgrade. You can get it. Well, to make it a little more. What happens is it goes through the process. They're tuned, but they sit there. Yeah.

And so you return it to its original form. And once you do that, it never goes away. So I hope you're watching, Leroy. I know somebody will tell you that that's happened. But Jace just tuned your call specifically. $2,900. $2,900. And he donated it to the pregnancy center. But this is what he's getting. And so thank you for that. And you guys were awesome there, Abby and Jace.

And Tracy. Yeah, I want to say Tracy. Tracy and all the crew that were there. You treated us great. It was very cold, but it was worth it because the people were warm, wouldn't you say, babe? Yeah, I think so. Do you remember Abby's mom's name? Lisa. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I said I wouldn't forget that. I'll put the little gospel diagram.

Perfect. And I put Matthew 19, 26, which is not possible with man, but with God, all things are possible. So we're going to get that in the mail. And we do like to tell you when we're going places, Lisa and I are going to be going up to...

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in a couple of weeks. We're an event in Carlisle. So look on our website, alanlisaroberson.com, about that if you want to check us out. Jace, have you got any you can mention? I do, but I think they're already sold out, so I'll see you when I see you. But that was fun. You know what's funny is you were in Kansas City and I'm fixing to go to Philadelphia.

Oh, really? My crowd will be a little more excited. Are you going to say something about the game? Well, I guess. You'll have to. I'll wait to the last minute. Yeah. I didn't even bring it up in my crowd. Someone heard me say on the podcast that I wound up pulling for Philly during the Super Bowl so I wouldn't have to go through a parade in Kansas City. I guess I said that. What's funny is these things are planned way in advance. Right, right. Who knew? So maybe there was something.

Yeah. Cosmic. That is interesting. But I'm glad I got to go where they won. But you know what was crazy is when they won –

They actually just started tearing up stuff and going crazy. So, you know, be careful what you wish for. We've talked about that. That's so insane how the reaction is. It's almost just like it's victory, but it's like let's destroy things in victory. I don't know. Well, I think, you know. You'd think the losers would be tearing up. But we just did the Jesus thing.

turning the water into wine. And even though that symbolizes, you know, our marriage to Christ, new beginnings, new creations. If you drink too much wine at a game, you start tearing stuff up. That's a good point. So there you go.

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So that's a great transition, Jace, because maybe in the last podcast with Cy, we talked about John 2, which was the wedding in Cana where he turns water into wine. And so we didn't talk a lot about weddings because this was just the setting. Although Jesus, that Jace did say Jesus was probably doing this in the sense that it is the bride and bridegroom. I mean, it wasn't an accident that he chose it.

Yeah, I mean, the more I read the Bible, the less I believe in coincidences, random encounters and accidents and anything in the Bible. It seems to be linked together. So I wanted to talk a little bit about weddings in the sense, because the first thing I thought of, we were talking with somebody recently and they were asking me about weddings I've done.

And which is the most difficult, which was the most, you know, all these different things. And I've done so many that I forget a lot of them. But one I will never forget was when I was asked to do Johanna Godwin's wedding. John Godwin's daughter. John Godwin's daughter, John and Paula. So they had asked me first, they wanted to do what I thought was just a...

Kind of like a, what would you call it? A pre-wedding thing. I met them over at tech in the room that they met in. They used to pass notes to each other in class. And so they want to do like their vows in this room.

Well, I thought this was just, I knew their wedding wasn't until November, but it turns out they had their marriage license. I married them with just a few of their family there in a classroom at Louisiana Tech University. They got permission to go in there at night and I married them. I did the vows in that room. So they were actually husband and wife. What they had planned this other thing is kind of like a family, but they were already married.

So they tell me, I said, no, so when's the wedding? And they're like, November 9th, which I remember to me because it was my birthday. No. Our anniversary, sorry. November 9th, which is our anniversary, but it was 2020. Now, Jason, I don't know if you remember, November 9th, 2020 was a big night. It was the year LSU won the national championship. And guess who they were playing November 9th that year?

Alabama. Alabama. It was the Alabama game. In the championship season at Alabama, I mean, the whole season was riding on this game. And you're doing a wedding. I'm doing a wedding with my best friend, John Gowan. They asked me. But, like, everybody at the wedding, I mean almost everybody, men and women, were watching the game as I'm standing with Johanna and Celio in front of me. I'm looking out. Everybody's looking down.

The entire time I'm doing the wedding, it was the most forgotten wedding, except for Johanna and Celio. They loved it. But everybody else, they didn't even know I was doing a wedding. It's weird you bring this story up because one of the biggest arguments that I've ever had with my wife is when my oldest son was going to get married and they sent a text with the date. And I said, nope. Nope.

And Missy snapped her head at me. She's like, you don't have anything going on. I said, that's the LSU Alabama game. So it wasn't that year, obviously, because they'd been married longer. And she was like, this is your son. You know how Missy can be. She started the speech. Well, I'm already typing. I was like.

That's the LSU Alabama game. No one will come. And my oldest son should know this. I wasn't selfishly saying that. You were saying the people. I'm back into the argument here. What has it been? Eight years later. I was like, they're not going to come. Or they're going to be distracted. Why would you want to do that?

And so I put that down, and then there was no argument. They put another date, which I looked up the LSU schedule, and it was during the bye week. Yeah. And I thought –

Now we're talking. This is called compromise. Which makes perfect sense to us because we're like, think about the schedule. Yeah. And in your case with Reed and Brighton, it was awesome. We filmed it on the show. So that really would have been. Did we film it? We filmed it. It was out in this pine grove somewhere. I remember where it was at. Yeah, it was nice. Yeah, Pecan Grove. You know, I don't remember that kind of stuff, you know. Was that the first wedding you'd ever done was his? No.

I've done a few. Which I'm terrible at it and I'm retired, so don't get any ideas. But you think you're retired and then the last one I did was Austin and Lily, which they filmed that for my treasure hunt. Yeah.

I just don't think I'm very good at that. I think you're spectacular at it. I've done many. And in fact, you're right, Des. I kind of tried to retire when I left, like full-time ministry work, but I do them every year. It's usually people that I love and I just can't say no to. But you did a good job, Jace, with Austin and Lily's wedding. Yeah, I thought you did pretty well.

It was very personable. I thought you did a great job. I appreciate it. I don't like the pressure of those kind of events. I will say that in terms of being in front of a crowd, if you're just speaking, it's much less pressure than a wedding because you feel like you could mess it up if you would. Look, there's no way –

You're kind of the umpire. Yeah. If you're noticed, there's a problem. That's right. You did it wrong. And so nobody cares. The only thing that can happen is you screw this whole thing up and they talk about it for years. Well, it's like good old cousin Kim, our uncle Tommy's daughter, when I did her wedding. And this was early and it turned out to be she taught me a great lesson. She wasn't trying to teach me a lesson, but she did.

When I went over there and of course I'm young, you know, and I just started doing weddings and she said, you know how you tell your funny stories and like everybody laughs and they love it. And I was like, yeah. And she said, don't do that.

Don't do that at my wedding. Just balls and strikes. That's what I'm saying. And you know what? She was right. I learned from that because leave it to Kim to tell me that. So I said that at Hayden's wedding, her son, which we got a good laugh about it. But I was like, Kim, you taught me a lesson. It's not about me. It's about the couple. So even though...

Johanna and Celio, and I reminded Johanna this recently, had me do this on the LSU-Alabama National Championship year game. It was still special. Yeah, it was. And I'm glad I did it. Well, the reason I don't mind bringing this up, and we've said it, but I wanted to read it. I think I've read this passage more in the last few podcasts ever. But, you know, in Revelation 21, when he saw a new heaven and new earth,

for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, there was no longer any sea, which was kind of symbolic to chaos and opposition and resistance to the kingdom of God. But he said, I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed for her husband. So it's not like, we're not just saying, oh, he did his first sign at a wedding and he died

Shows his transformational power, which was obviously a picture of things can change for the better. There's the rejoicing and just being a part of God's family. I mean, I think there is something here. Verse 4 then says, it says,

They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There'll be no more death, no more mourning, crying, or paying for the old order of things has passed away. And he said, look, I am making everything new.

Verse 5, which goes, I think, into the John 2. And then the next section that we're going to get into, he actually addresses in verse 22 of Revelation 21 when it says, I did not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine up for the glory of God, which goes back to what we talked about last podcast, glory of God.

gives it light, and the lamb is its lamb. I mean, I just think it's a beautiful picture. No, and I love the way you tied those two in because I think that's why John told these two stories back to back, from the wedding and the water and the wine to then the temple, which is where we're going next. Which is kind of...

because the other three gospels, they call them the synoptic gospel. Yeah, they have that way later. So most people that I've read, they're like, well, it must have happened twice. I mean, maybe it was a thing. I don't think so. I mean, maybe, but I think John just chose to tell the story here. That's my opinion, but it could be right or wrong. ♪

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I want to mention this because I've been wanting to tell this story for a while, and this is the time to tell it as we make the transition. Because I read this story in N.T. Wright's book, which, by the way, several of you asked me about some of the stuff we read, and he's one of the guys we do. This is the Paul book, but he's got one on John that I'm reading. Are you reading the John? Yeah, well, I've read it before. It's really, really good. And so in this book –

Jay skips over the illustrations because he just goes for the meat. Dude, that's a bad habit. You know what's funny? I'm a preacher, so the illustrations I love. Well, I use illustrations because I got to think about those. But I never listen to them. Yeah.

When I'm Bible studying or listening to people, like every time they start talking about illustration, I immediately go, because I'm thinking I'll insert my own. I don't ever use other people's illustrations unless, you know, it was just fantastic. Well, and to Jason's credit, he's never had to preach week in and week out. That's true. You would have to use other people's. I tend to only have one message. Right, right.

So, which is different. I mean, they, y'all asked me to speak on Ephesians. Yeah, I'm excited. You gotta wrap it up. Well, but it's a, it's a, I've already given that Willie asked me to speak somewhere on Ephesians because they were doing, this was like last year. Yeah. So I was like, all right, yeah, I have that. I'm in. You're actually going to wrap the book. And that's on Mother's Day, by the way, if you want to come to West Monroe. All right, so look, so here's the story he tells. So the setting is,

was I was preaching out of Ephesians 3, those first 13 verses that set up before he gives that prayer, you know, I kneel to the Father. And so he does this kind of what I would call Jace's rabbit hole, because he starts off going to make a point, then he kind of puts a rabbit hole moment in Ephesians 2, I mean, 3 verse 2, all the way down to the end of that section. And in there,

He's talking about his unique role in revealing the mystery of

Of the gospel, and especially to the Gentiles. That's the context. Yeah, he says in verse 4 of 3, in reading this, you'll be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ. Yeah, and it's very personal for Paul. I mean, he's like, you know, and then I went back and read what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus and exactly what Jesus said he was going to do as well. So N.T. Wright, in telling this about this text,

tells this story, which I found fascinating. The reason I'm bringing it up now is because Cy made a big deal in the last podcast about the timing of this miracle, the time that Jesus said, my time has not fully come. But we knew that his time is coming, which he's going to say later. And so he tells a story about this woman in Africa named Naomi, and she had started a business and

Making dresses. And the reason the story, the illustration stuck out to me is because Lisa and I had been to Africa, Liberia, and we actually went to a school that was started by one of our friends that taught women how to sew so that they could make dresses and other things, right? And we bought sewing machines for them. Yeah, it was like 50 graduates. So I mean, it was so personal to me because I've been to Africa where this was actually happening. So he tells a story.

Naomi, who has this vision, she wants to make dresses. So she gets a couple of her friends to help her with this, and also a young man. And the young man, his role was to go into town, buy supplies, and then also to sell their dresses back in town. So that was his role. So you got the makers, then you got the guy that's going and selling and bringing supplies.

Well, the business grows. It does great. She has to hire two more women. So now we've got four women plus this guy. And finally, one day, one of the women that she had hired says, you know, this is going so well, we should make other things, you know, tablecloths and covers and curtains. And I mean, we could really expand this business. And the woman, Naomi, just stops saying,

And she goes over and there's a desk that she always kept locked. And she opens it up. She pulls out a letter. In the letter, there's a date written on there. It's the day she started the company.

And she hands the letter to the woman who had just said this and said, I want you to read that out loud. So she opens up the letter and she reads this plan for an expansion of the business into all the new things she wanted to do and all this. And she said, from the beginning, I've had this idea about where we will go. She said, but I didn't want to bring it up early because you would have thought,

She's just daydreaming and we're never going to get there because we've got to get this work done. Been overwhelming. We've been overwhelming. And so she said, but now we're ready to do it. And then N.T. Wright makes the point that

That from God's perspective, this is what he did with his plan. He had it in place. It was functional. It was happening. It was leading towards something. But then all of a sudden came the time to pull out the envelope and say, but here's what it's really about. It's so much bigger. And he said, imagine Paul saying,

being the young man in the story that realized that now his role is about to change dramatically and what was going to happen in the spreading of this secret that she kept the whole time. And I just thought it was a beautiful picture, and I guess because I've experienced it, at exactly what happens when the time was revealed in the first century. I mean, Jesus coming was the change agent for all eternity, right?

Oh, yeah. And then the people that afterwards, the disciples, including Paul, who was, he said, one abnormally boring because he came so late in the game, would be then to get it to the Gentiles. It was just a fascinating story that I thought was in there. Yeah, I think it's crazy when you go back to the beginning and try to make sense of it all. Because I was, I don't know where I read this the other day, but I read something I thought, huh. He's like, you know, the guy was preaching and he was saying,

We've always taught in our churches that, well, the world was made perfect, and then we screwed up. And he was kind of being sarcastic, and he was like, well, now God's like, well, I made a mistake. How am I going to fix this? But I was kind of playing along, and I was like, yeah, I've thought this before. And he said something that I'd never thought about. He's like,

Just because God made it good when he said, this is good, this is good, this is good. Oh, humans, very good. He's like, it wasn't complete though. He had in mind, it wasn't like God was surprised. We tend to dumb down God to our level and he's like, it wasn't complete or perfect.

There was a process he knew all along. You get that especially from John here because he's going back to the beginning, you know, where it would be more complete. It would be...

what God had in mind from the beginning. Because if it's an eternal being, he's not waiting around. I mean, he's using all this time speech for us because we are mortal. But it was a subtle thought, but I thought, well, that makes more sense. That, okay, other beings, because you know you have the evil one there or an evil presence, but then, so you have man's rebellion, but then in Genesis 6,

it kind of gets crazy because then there's other celestial beings involved who are not imaging God. And then Genesis 11, we have this kind of rebellion of human beings not wanting to do what God wants them to do. And so then all the nations are formed with all the languages of

And just those three rebellions, if you kind of put them in order, kind of the human celestial beings and then the nations, which all those nations started bowing down to other gods, which comes back to the Genesis 6, these other celestial beings.

And then when you look to see what happened when Jesus gets here, and when he made that statement in Matthew 28, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. You know, therefore, go make disciples of all nations. And then the mark says, whoever believes is baptized will be saved, whatever. But it kind of hit me in that moment when I was listening to it. I was like, this was the plan all along. But God, you know, in creating us with...

and choices and just kind of lets it play out. Yeah. You know? And I just think it was more powerful and planned than we kind of think about, but it's just hard for us to see it as just inserted in the year 2025. Yeah.

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we were talking about marriage and how the idea is that sometimes we have to, we get to the point where it loses its luster, but we have to hang in there. We have to continue to go that next step. And you were mentioning that, babe. And I think it's interesting that he's going to make this transition out of a wedding into the temple. Yeah.

But in essence, that's what happened. We just read in Exodus 33 in the last podcast about the presence of God that came about even before they started the tabernacle worship. And they did later. The presence of God was still there. We get the first temple built by Solomon. The presence of God is there. And then we get to Ezekiel 10, and Ezekiel says the glory of God has left the temple. It's over.

Because the people don't love God anymore. They built other temples. You got a temple up in Damascus. You got all these things that are happening. And so it lost the luster of this relationship. And Bayon, I was thinking about us. We had a wedding.

And we committed our lives to each other. But somewhere in those first few years, we lost the idea of that. And if you want to put it in this quotation, we're talking about the glory of our marriage. It left us. Right. And we almost lost everything until something was rebuilt in us that

15 years beyond the original wedding. I mean, that's what happened to us, right? It happens to couples all the time. Well, I think because if you do not build your marriage to begin with...

On Christ. And he is not the cornerstone. He is not right in the center of your marriage. And he wasn't. He might have been for you, but he wasn't for me. Right. And I think unless you have that, then you are going to lose the luster. You know? And even... I think even over time, that luster may dull a little bit because of things that happened. Maybe you got...

got kids that are sick, maybe the spouse is sick, maybe financial problems. So all of that is going to play a part into dulling that. But I think unless it is totally built on Christ, that it's always going to, you're going to lose it every time. You're going to lose that glory because you did not do it right the first time.

And that is, I mean, that's one of the things that you and I are trying to tell a couple of our friends is that you can't build this on your feelings. You got to build this on yourself.

On Christ. He's got to be the reason why you do this. Don't sit out there in a marriage that's mediocre. That's not what Christ wants for you. Right. He wants your marriage to glorify him. And it cannot glorify him if all you're doing is fussing and fighting and...

calling the law to each other and, I mean, you know, that kind of stuff. No, I think the best advice I ever got, because we had my dad, who is a great a man and he's been early on in our life. Not always the best in the marriage. He did not give very good marriage advice. And, you know, I've told this before. We laugh at it now, but he's like, he had his three points, you know.

Does she believe it? Actually, I'm just got to be honest. His number one thing was, can she cook? Can she cook? Does she carry her Bible? Because that used to bother me. I thought, shouldn't the Bible come before the spoons? Right, exactly. Anyway, and will she pick your ducks? Well, my wife...

She didn't have but one of those for the first 10 years I knew her. She had the Bible. She couldn't boil an egg. And she said, look, I will never pick your ducks. Because I tried it. I was like, well, so much for that advice. Terrible advice. But the best advice I did get was,

was when I was reading that Ephesians 5, which most people go there, because you brought up that Ephesians, talking about that mystery, which he later on, to your point, said that the mystery was that Jews and Gentiles, these nations, could come back together under Christ. Well, then he does the same thing in marriage. He goes to the roles of,

But I always looked at it like, well, let's define that role. But somebody told me, maybe it was Carl who did our premarital counseling. He's like, you both get to be like Jesus in the marriage, which actually Ephesians says. Like Christ loved the church. Right. Philippians 2 says the same thing. Yeah, but then he gets down to the end and he says –

In verse 32, I think that's 32, this is a profound mystery. It brings this mystery, just like you do with the nations, all people come together. But I'm talking about Christ and the church, kind of to go back to what we're talking about, which is a beautiful picture, but it does put it in priority because I thought, because all the time I teach, we're in Christ, we're living in a world where

in a world. And I'll say we're part of a kingdom

among other kingdoms. But I never used that in marriage, but I thought of that a while ago. I thought, but we actually are living in a marriage within a marriage in Christ. That was his point there. And I think that's a really good way to look at it because his whole point that we agree on was getting to know Jesus better. And I think that's the best thing you can do in your marriage. Marriage is an action word.

It's not just something you do. You don't just get married and then that's the end of it. It's an action word. It's an everyday wake up and you decide that I'm going to serve my spouse today and whatever they need, I'm going to make sure they get it. And however that I can help them fulfill that,

their commitment to Christ, that's what I'm going to do today. And so it's an action, just like love. To me, another one, love is an action. So you say you love somebody, okay, that's great. But what are you doing for that other person?

Yeah. Because it's an action. You got to do something for somebody else. Yeah. And so many times we just think we just get married and that's it. And every relationship builds on the other. Like you said, if you can start out with a relationship with you and Christ. That's right. Then that flows into a relationship with a man and a woman. Right. Then that flows into a relationship with children and grandchildren. But remember, there's a pecking order of those. It started with God.

then to one another, then to kids, then to grandkids. If any of those get out of whack, you got a problem. So setting up what we're going to be talking about in this next context, there's a temple.

And this is a place where at one time in Israel's history, there was this dynamic relationship of the presence of God with his people. And it was seen through a lot of different things that happened there, sacrifices and cleansings and incense being burned. And there was a lot of process that went on, to your point, even within marriage. So it's that idea about God and his people. Well, now we've had several hundred years of...

People are still going through the motions, but there's no presence there. There's no reality. So what Jesus walks into when we get into this context later in John 2 is now it's become about making money. All the animals that are being sacrificed is part of the thing. Everything's on an upcharge. Well, and their temple life was more... Everything was there. It's like their politics, their culture, their...

If they make money, I mean, it's like he had been there, but they just turned it into... And so imagine you're the son of God. And again, they don't know that yet. I mean, you're just now coming out and saying, this is who I am. But you're walking. So you've been there the whole time. Well, in their defense, that would be hard because he's basically saying, I'm the temple and you're a human from Nazareth. Yeah.

That'd be a hard sell. It's a hard sell, and I get it. But imagine you're him, and you walk in, and you look around, and you see what this beautiful, holy idea was supposed to be and what it's become. So I can't help but think about marriage again and what happens with people who get off track

where they become two people who are partners in life because they have to be. We made a decision. We're going to do this. And so, but it's all about money. And while I want to divorce him, but if I did, you know, I had to go through blah, blah, blah. And so we started just running it out like it's a financial contract. And well, I got my kids and, you know, I mean, you know, I hate the idea of, you know, trying, I mean, just think about all the reasons people think of and you're like, yeah, but it was created to be this beautiful relationship that,

between you and God and you and this other person. You made this commitment, but it's so easy for that other stuff to get involved and you just get so far removed from why you first started. You become this. You become the setting we see in the content. Still getting around to that fix on your car? You got this. On eBay, you'll find millions of parts guaranteed to fit. Doesn't matter if it's a major engine repair or your first time swapping your windshield wipers.

eBay has that part you need ready to click perfectly into place for changes big and small. Loud or quiet. Find all the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. But you already know that. eBay. Things. People. Love. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply. Because it's based on a lie. Yeah. I mean, it's the evil one telling you that, well, you married the wrong person. You know, you can do better.

If you get out of this one and get into another one, everything's going to, you know, it'll all work out. And it's all based on lies. And if we ever, you know, I just said to one of my friends a while ago, you know, pray about this. And if in the end you think God is telling you don't do this.

then I'll back off. I'll question it because I'm going to question who is telling you this, because you may think it's God. I think it's Satan, but it could be yourself. That's right. Or it could be, you know, your inner spirit. But I said, if that's who you think is telling you to do this, then I'll back off. But,

I mean, I think God wants your marriage to glorify him, and it cannot do it in the manner that it's working out right now. I mean, I think we all have to be committed to Christ first, of course. But in that commitment to Christ, then we have to be committed to our spouse first.

Number one, over everything, over our kids, over our grandkids, over finances, over health, everything. Everything has to be Christ first and then your partner, you know? And it's just, it's hard for me. And I guess, I don't know, maybe the Lord needs to take me back to 25 years ago. It's hard for me to allow people to just give up. I can't, I can't.

I can't sit back and just let somebody say, no, I mean, you know, it's over. We're just going to throw in the towel. I can't do it, you know? I'm glad you can because that means you love people. But remember, the same transition that people are going through in their everyday lives or what we're seeing in the context of the first century, just

Jesus has come here to introduce the concept, as Jay just said a minute ago, that he now is going to be that temple. He's going to be the cornerstone of that. But trust me, the transition got real rocky. Well, and he makes all things new and he can repair. And we've seen all these great transformations. But when you start comparing our marriages to our marriage with Jesus,

I mean, he's way more graceful. Oh, yeah. Forgiving. And he doesn't even have expectations that are unreasonable in our marriages. I mean, there are...

There are clauses that he offers that are like, you don't have to stay together. I mean, then you situations and different things. But even he himself, he still died for all that. He's still welcome. It's like his grace is so much greater and larger. And I think you hit on something that's right. I think people, once they make that decision, which whether they say they did or not, they'll say, okay,

Well, I just feel like I don't love them anymore. What you're saying is you've decided based on what's happened. You're out. But it's all camouflaged. Because again, love is a decision. That's right. It's camouflaged around that. But it goes back, when you brought up the evil one, I think that was a good analogy. Because what was in the first marriage, husband and wife,

It was the possibility that you're missing out. It was curiosity really was the temptation. He said, don't do it, but you were curious. It's all these little subtle things we never talk about. They saw that it was pleasing to the eye and it was good for food. Gaining wisdom. Gaining wisdom. I mean, it's just like you get all your little points, but

Well, that's never left people. And as Phil, one good advice he used to say was, don't ever think the grass is greener on the other side of the yard because it's meaner. You know, he used to say that, which was kind of corny. It's not greener, it's meaner. Yeah, I thought.

That's a good idea to think because that's what we tend to think. Oh, if I change location. How many people move? I mean, they do it from churches. They have a falling out. They're like, well, I'm leaving. Well, they go down and seven years later, guess what? The same thing happened. They're leaving again. You know why? Because you brought you to the party. Yeah.

Yeah. And you still got the same stuff. You're the common denominator. What do you say about the green grass on the other side of the field? I say the green grass is greener over there because they got more crap over there. Yeah. You know? Because that's where the septic plant is. And that's the fertilizer. Yeah. That's what makes it green. I think that's a spectacular illustration. Yeah. It's more. But that is, it's that little game.

I think goes on because you, we see that with people that we've worked with. I've seen people, I try to talk them out of it. I'm like, look, there's, because you kind of hear the situation and like, look, marriage is tough. Things happen, circumstances. This is not, I mean, I say this all the time. My wife and I did not have set a better foundation. And oh my goodness, it was, it's just been a struggle because I think that's the way it,

It's just the nature of living with another human being. But just think about those struggles, Jace, without Christ as the center of your marriage and without you being his bridegroom. Well, I'm thankful for them now. I'm thankful for the struggles because it, boy, it's something I can galvanize. And I want to say this. I mean, my wife has been a superstar with our situation with our parents.

But I know part of her is doing that for me because it's a stressful situation. We've talked about, you know, our parents are just not doing good, and it can be very difficult and stressful. But, boy, she has cooked so many meals. I mean, she's at the top of the list. And I noticed something that she's – which has been kind of crazy. This is kind of personal, but –

Because Phil has raked her over the coals the last 35 years on multiple occasions. Now, he didn't really mean anything by it because my dad, everybody. Well, he picks on people he loves. He does. But he's hurt her feelings multiple times, you know. She's cried on the way from their house. Like, I cannot believe he said that to me, you know.

I was like, babe, you know. I tried to take up for him, but that compounds the problem. Are you endorsing this behavior? No. But one thing she's been doing.

which was first she told me she did this, but it was kind of touching. She cooked the meal for him because now since she's, Phil likes her cooking so much, you can tell she's kind of moved up the batting order. Because as soon as she walks in, he gets up.

And it's looking for a plate. Yeah. He's like, okay. Well, we got today. Well, we got today. So she said, well, the first time I left, she said, I thought, you know, Phil's never told me he loves me. And I'm fine with that because he's just not that way. She said, but I thought, he's just not doing well. And so she came up there and kind of side hugged him and said, I love you, Phil. Yeah.

And she said, I did that a couple times, and about the third time, he said, I love you too. And I was like, he did? It's a miracle. But so she said last night, she said, he does that every time now, whether I say it or not. And I said, well, babe, you have worked a wonder in that man's life. But it told me that it was in there because he's married to Christ, right?

It's just behind the rough exterior. And that's what we're talking to because there's a lot of people out there listening who have been through different experiences. And we're talking about as believers, there's always a capacity to make changes and to move forward and to get past things. It can happen.

To unbelievers, we get it. Sometimes until you know Christ, we're going to get to John 4, and there's a woman there. She's been divorced five times. She's living with a guy now who's not her husband, and Jesus brings her into something. I guarantee you that woman's...

Situation changed after that encounter with Jesus. And that's what we're saying. We're saying marriage is a tough thing. But if you put it in the context of what we're talking about, you had this wedding, and then you got the idea of the temple, and then there's all this fake, false front stuff that's going on that Jesus is going to clear out. We'll talk about it in the next podcast.

And same thing with a relationship. Jase is right. The symmetry in the picture is too clear not to miss. That's the way it should be. Well, exactly. And we've talked about Christ, but look, there are worldly marriages that work. They don't even know Christ. And I use that for an example because they just have an arrangement.

Because really, this unmet expectations is really a big thing. Huge. And I see people. They basically have a business arrangement in their marriage, and they get along. But if you want something that will impact the world the way God set this up, well, you get a dynamic.

Christ-centered marriage. And you have a lot of answers to give people. Yes, exactly right. You know, it's funny. Last night, Phil tried to shake my hand before we left. And I wouldn't shake his. I said, I'm not shaking your hand. Just take his hand out. But I will hug your neck. And so I hugged him and I said, I love you. And of course, he didn't say anything. So then we go into the living room.

And so we're saying bye, and I'm covering up Kay just to get her situated again. And I hugged her and told her I loved her. She told me she loved me. And then Phil's, you know, trying to get situated on the couch. So he gets on the couch.

And I said, well, I love you, Phil. And he said, yeah, you too. So he didn't say I love you, but you know. Oh, you planted the seed. Missy's proven it's possible. So I'm saying stay out. You guys have just got to start saying it more so that he can say it to y'all. Yeah, we should. We try. We're raised by Phil. All right, we're out of time, babe. It's always good to have you on the podcast.

So we'll see you next time. I love you. Thanks. I love you. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.