Ep 1049 | Jase Dives Down a Rabbit Hole of Fallen Angels, Human Hybrids & Celestial Rebellion
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Welcome back to Unashamed. We're so excited to have Zach back from jolly old England. Zach, now one thing I had to ask for clarification, because you said you weren't going to be, you were there totally separate from

Because Willie's family's been over there. Corey's been there. Sadie spoke at something. And they had a big thing going on, which you mentioned. But you said that had nothing to do with you. And then I saw pictures of your lovely wife, Jill, the much better half of your union. Mm-hmm.

with Corey and the group. So there was some merging somewhere in there between the two worlds. There was cross-pollination. We were at the same event, one of the events, but we were just there for that one thing. And they were there for, I think, another thing that coincided, so they doubled up. But I'm back now, and back in North Carolina, we got the fort all set up. We're ready to roll.

That's good. Good to be back. Good to be back, Jace. Thank you for waving at me as you're driving over, too, or flying over. I was looking up cross-pollination. Cross-pollination. Actually, the transfer of pollen from one plant to another. That's a metaphor. I use it as a metaphor. Well, I know, but I was thinking, isn't that what the cross of Jesus does? Is it?

It cross-pollinates. Well, it cross-pollinates over the global. The cross. The cross-pollination. Well, you can always plan on Jays to look at it. I like that. I've never thought about that before, the cross-pollination, but that's actually. Well, I've always thought about Jesus, you know, because we're so, you know, used to, I think, feel, label me a germaphobe, and this is pre-COVID.

Because I just noticed every time I shook two or three hundred hands, the next day I got sick. So I thought, it had nothing to do with me being labeled a germaphobe. I thought, why don't we just...

fist bump yeah but then people don't like that and uh even two or three times at my last event they put out the fist bump i put out the hand and then they went to the hand and i went to the fifth and it was like i had my and then you're collapsing your hand over their fist and then it got so awkward that whatever encounter we thought we were gonna have did not end well but my point was

Jesus was like the, what is the opposite? Like the anti-contagion in that

he would not only not like he would touch a leper, not only would he not get leprosy, but he was contagious in a positive way. He was the cross pollination. A spiritual contagion. You just touch the hem of his garment and you find healing. Yes. That's what I mean. So it's like, that's, that's why if you have germaphobe tendencies, Jesus is truly your answer. Cause it's like the anti gene and pollination thing.

Oh, don't cough on me. And you're like, oh, Jesus, please cough on me because then I'll no longer cough. Yeah, I think it's kind of cool. Well, and let's face it, the whole going through COVID thing as a culture and as a nation, we saw the extreme versions of people so fearful that.

about somehow getting something that it turns out most people are going to get anyway because that's the nature of a virus like that, that we saw that and thought, ooh, I don't want to be that person with the triple mask and the face shield. Well, yeah, now they even still people have it today. But that's why I love 2 Corinthians 3, 18, if you want to know whether Jesus was...

Pro mask. He's like, we all with unveiled faces reflect the Lord's glory, which is where we left off. Look at that segue. Look at the segue. Jace gets the segue award today. So he goes water to wine, and it says this was the first of his miraculous signs, which I believe that...

was addressing the legalistic mindsets of the planet. Right. Because of all things, he turned water into wine. The fact that that's a controversy is really a sad depiction of a lot of organized religions. It's supposed to be a beautiful thing. It's like God's party. Hey, for all you party people,

God's got a party that's awesome. Yeah. And it's actually involving wine. But what that represents is... I brought up that. We didn't talk about this last podcast, but...

That illustration that he used when he said you don't pour new wine into old wineskins because it burst. I feel like that's the big transition. I was thinking the same thing. I didn't bring it up either. I had the same exact thought. Yeah, well, there it is. So when he gets to verse 12 of John 2, which is where we're at, after this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brother and his disciples.

there he stayed a few days. And I think this is significant when it says it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, which is, if I'm not mistaken, the same event where he died on the cross. And so when you start filling on, we know there were at least three trips there because he did three years of ministry and he's going every year. So, which I said last time, and I'll say again, uh,

You know, when you get to the book of Revelation, I'm going down a rabbit hole here, or some people call it bunny trail. Is that what somebody said on your thing? I heard somebody speaking, and he said, I'm going to go down a bunny trail. And I thought, well, now I know the difference in a redneck Christian and a yuppie Christian. The redneck goes down a rabbit hole, and the yuppie goes down a bunny trail. The bunny trail.

The bunny trail sounds way too cutesy. You're right. I can't. I can't call it that. Come on. I was like, where are you from? I missed his whole point of the bunny trail. If you're going on a bunny trail, you're frolicking, and that's not what we're not frolicking here. I mean, is that a chocolate bunny or an actual fluffy bunny? We're going down a tour. I'm the type of person that when I see a hole in the ground. You're curious about what made it. I'm not just curious. I'm going in. Yeah.

I'm going to see what's down at the bottom. And I've told this before on the podcast, but one of the scariest moments of my life is when I submerged myself under a beaver hut and came up because I saw it on that movie, Jeremiah Johnson, when he hid and they were after him. The Indians were after him, yeah. Yeah. And so he did that. Yeah. Now, when he came up, which I don't know how they did that scene, when he came up,

The similarities were, you know, he didn't have a light. So I was thinking when I watched that movie, because I had already done that. When you go up, if you ever want to try this, you need to have a flashlight in your hand because it's dark. Because when I came up. Yeah, they don't have lights in there. When I came up, here's what I heard.

Which is not good in the dark. No, no. And I mean, I could have drowned in between, you know, and now it's just, so I got out of there. What a way to go. Well, I mean, I don't think the beaver would kill you. But they do have sharp teeth. They can cut trees. I mean, I don't want that anywhere near my face. I mean, I've been bitten by a beaver. Yeah. But, you know, a few days I got over it.

But I used to catch them. And so be careful what you're going after. Yeah. Because you catch something that doesn't want to be caught in the wilderness. We were deep sea on a trip one time, and these guys would dive down and spear fish, which was amazing to watch them. We would be snorkeling on the top, and so I could see them down there spearing these tuna. Yeah.

and they would just go down there on the bottom we're in the gulf and they're down there on the bottom and they would just go in a hole and disappear like you know and they're probably i don't know 100 foot down where we were just watching them and i thought what kind of fool on the bottom of the ocean goes down just disappears in a hole and they'd come out they'd have a lobster or something i was like yeah look at these guys

Well, what I was going to say, we never got to the actual rabbit hole. Sorry, that was another rabbit hole. But I look at the Bible from the filter of Jesus. You know, because of passages like Hebrews 1,

where he starts off saying, in the past, God spoke in various ways. And he brings up the prophets. But he's like, in these last times, he's spoken to us through his son. Yeah. And then that chapter two, which is one of my favorite chapters in the whole Bible, Hebrews 2, because it's all about why God became a human. Yeah. I mean, he starts calling us family. He starts tying in the spiritual forces in the heavenly realms with, you know,

Jesus becoming an actual man, not only to defeat the spiritual forces of evil, but to rescue humans. And, uh, you know, he winds up in that famous passage where he destroys the work of the evil one, which is the, you know, spiritual forces in the heavenly realms that happened to come to earth via the devil. Right. But, uh, by his death, uh,

which is, it's not like we're jumping the gun. John is like given a vision of what's going to happen. Like as he's writing, everything is leading to, it gives you a picture of something, even the conversations to what's fixing to happen. But he's also using the fulfillment of what happened in the past to come to this point. And so that, based on me saying that and getting that out right,

So when I read Revelation 1, 5, and of course now we're jumping to the very end, the last book, but it starts talking about Jesus and it says, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. But watch how he depicts him here. He says to him who loves us and has freed us. Well, because when I hear the word Passover, Passover,

I think freedom, when you go back to that story and the new exodus and God liberating this chosen nation from slavery, I think freedom. So we tend to think when we start reading in John 1, in the beginning, he's the one that went back and said, okay, in the beginning was the Word and the Word is with God. You go back to the beginning, it's like, well, God made the heavens and the earth and then...

He spoke, you know, the Holy Spirit was hovering over the water. So you're kind of seeing God in his form speaking, the Spirit hovering and creation happening.

These stories of the martyrs, we need to know them. We need to hear them. They need to sink into our soul because church is being persecuted. Yeah. And it's been that way since the beginning. I mean, our original forefathers in the faith, the ones that Jesus built our church upon, were martyrs. And so there's a book that's out. It's called When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians.

And Todd Nettleton wrote it. He's the voice of the Martyrs Radio host.

And what he did was he's traveled to these restricted nations is what they're called because they're unsafe and they're unsafe for Christians. But he's been doing this, these journeys for 20 years. He's got amazing stories along this pathway of people he met that not only inspired him, but also will inspire us. So we don't want you to miss out on the opportunity to be inspired by these remarkable stories. And you can request your free copy today.

of when faith is forbidden today by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed. We want you to get involved and get inspired by this wonderful book.

Then, so all of a sudden, we've gone one chapter, and he starts talking about, well, it's Passover time. And you start thinking, oh, how is this going to relate back there when God used blood and the signs that he did to liberate his people? And you remember the parting of the Red Sea and the whole story, leading them to the promised land. So I said all that to say he's freed us from our sins, right?

So this is Jesus not only fulfilled and gave freedom, like you go back to the Old Testament, you know, freeing a people from some kind of earthly kingdom and dominion. But now he's like freeing humanity from sin itself and the work of the devil itself from death itself. You remember in Hebrews 2, it says,

He held people's slavery by their fear of death, in slavery by their fear of death. Right. Don't you think that's interesting? Very interesting. So then he says, and who has made us to be a kingdom and priests. Well, what did priests do? They worked in the temple, right? Right. As go-betweens between God and man to serve his God and father to him, be glory and power forever.

Forever and ever. Amen. Then he has the Daniel quote, and then I wanted to get to verse 8. So then Jesus says, through John's vision, I am the Alpha and the Omega. So that would be like saying, I'm the Omega.

A and Z. But here's a point I want to make, because then he clarifies that, says the Lord God, who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty, which I think that's why John wrote this the way it is, because you're reading and you're looking back and seeing how he's fulfilling the whole plan of God from the beginning.

but you're also looking forward to what he's fixing to do. Right. And I think the part missed is the letters in between in modern day America. Yeah. Because he is. Right. Which is why he has all the 7 IM statements. Right. And so a lot of people, my whole point of this rabbit hole is that

Yes, we're going to look back to what the temple did in the Old Testament, and we're going to look forward to what Jesus redefined as the temple, as him being the temple, giving human beings his spirit, which we're going to get into in John 3. He introduces this idea of the spirit and becoming the dwelling place of God. And so if you factor in that Jesus who was, who is to come, and who is,

So right now we're in the who is Jesus who is. It's the in between the alphabet of earth. Right. And let me go back to your point, because I love it, that when the people of enslaved in Egypt, who were the people of God, but just didn't know it yet.

When they came out, it's very interesting because Lisa and I just talked about this yesterday at our marriage thing when we did our talk together. There was a cloud that guided them. By day, it was a cloud. At night, that cloud would be fire so they could see. Right.

So they literally had a pathway to where their freedom was now taking them. And it was taking them ultimately to the tabernacle and later the temple and the promised land, everything that he had told Abraham 400 years earlier. They were going into this is, this free, now you're in the presence of God lifestyle. What's interesting is, Jace, an entire generation of people, 40 years, they could not

They couldn't escape. They kept looking back. In spite of the cloud, in spite of the fire, in spite of the promises, they kept saying, we're hungry. I mean, we want to go back. And so he said, okay, you're going to wander around for 40 years until this entire generation dies.

Figures out that the way forward is in my presence. And so I think it's interesting. That was a picture of an Old Testament story, but that's exactly what it is today. We're not just escaping sinful desire and sin's effects on us. We are into the presence of God, which is a completely different existence. And you can't keep looking back.

to live in the here and now. I mean, that's what they did. He says, don't do that. I mean, now you're with me. Holy Spirit lives in you now. Right. That picture I was thinking of when you're talking about that cloud,

God showed up in the Old Testament quite often as a cloud or in the form of smoke. Particularly when we talk about God's presence, smoke would fill the tabernacle, the temple. If you think about the time when he had the interaction with Abraham, or was it Abraham? Yeah, in Genesis 17, maybe. I was thinking 15. But it was the one where they cut the animals in half and they have the covenant.

He puts Abram asleep and then the smoke goes through

the divided animals, meaning that God's presence moved through the divided animals, which I think is the real story of Jesus, is that what's happening in the Old Testament, it was always about God's presence. That never changes, right? The problem with the Old Testament is that it was not on the side of God. It was on the side of humans, us. That we were the problem, always were. I mean, if you go back and read Genesis 3,

And you see like who withdrew from who first. It was Adam and Eve sinned. They ate the fruit. And then they were the ones that covered up initially. They made fig leaf coverings for themselves. They ran and they hid from the Lord. And then they heard the Lord God walking in the garden. And then God approached them.

And that goes in line with that Romans 5 passage that while we were enemies, Christ died for us. A lot of this language about being an enemy of God, I think we lose it sometimes in Western Christianity because we only see it as that God's mad at us, but we don't see the part that, no, we're enemies in our mind, too.

That's a big part of this. Paul says in Colossians, we were enemies and alienated in our minds. So I think the trajectory of the Old Testament, if you read it and you never heard about Jesus, never heard about the God of the Old Testament, I'm just going to give you this book, Genesis, these books, Genesis to Malachi. Read it and tell me what you think. I think here's what you would come back and say. I think you would say, this is not going to work.

Not because of the God of the covenant, but because the ones he made the covenant with, these people, us humans, they are adulterous and they continue to rebel. Even like, as you mentioned in the Exodus, even with the cloud guiding, even with the miracles, even with the manna falling from heaven, they're still trying to gather it all up. They're making golden calves or doing all the things. I mean, what are you doing? That's what we do, by the way. So the problem is always in the problem of humanity and what's happening in the coming of Christ.

of Christ, the Messiah, is that God is going to accomplish His ultimate mission, is that He will dwell with His people despite human failure. Despite human failure, He is going to dwell with people, and it will be accomplished in Jesus. So I think that is like a good backdrop as He's entering into this world, which we would know as Second Temple Judaism,

He's entering into this world and he's going into the very epicenter in John chapter two of their entire structure, their entire system, their entire way of life. Everything that they were about is in this temple. And that is exactly where Jesus is going. So I want to give you two more pictures since we're there is that, cause we just studied this in, in first Kings eight, whenever Solomon builds that first temple, uh,

It says that God came in a dark cloud, to your point. And it said, now I will dwell in your temple. And that was that picture again we would know later. But I love the idea it was a dark cloud. Because most of the time people make a decision, what is going on? You're in the darkest part of your life. The other one was a picture you don't think about very much, and that's in 1 Kings 18, when

When Elijah is on Mount Carmel and he's just had this great victory. And now he knows that God's going to bring rain because it hadn't rained in years. And so he gets down on his hands and knees and he won't even look. And he tells his servant, keep looking out over the Sea of Galilee. And so seven times the servant looks out. And on the seventh time, it said a cloud the size of a man's hand came out of the Sea of Galilee.

and then began to gather, and of course brings rain. And it rained so hard that, I mean, you know, Elijah just took off running and ran all the way back to Israel. And so I just think that idea, again, about the cloud, like you said, is the idea of the provision of God

the power of God, the interaction of God. And even when Jesus left here in Acts chapter one, remember what it said? A cloud hid him from their sight, and then the angel shows up and says, why are you looking this way? He's coming back the same way. So we're living in that, as Jace put it, that who is timeframe of the Holy Spirit living in us. It's a really powerful study.

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And you guys will save 50% off your first month. Make the switch today at puretalk.com slash unashamed and join America's wireless company, Pure Talk. The presence is the key to it and the key to the cloud and the presence of God. That's why if you go back to the beginning of the Bible and you read that Genesis 3 passage of the fall of man, what does it say that they hid from?

It says they hid from the presence of the Lord. So you think, what is the problem with sin at its core? It's that it causes us to withdraw from the presence of the Lord, which is the very thing that we're looking for. We withdraw from the very source of life itself. That is the nature of sin. It's not an arbitrary violation of a commandment that God gave. It is simply to withdraw from the presence and hide from the presence of the Lord.

And that's what Jesus is going to actually solve. That's good. I wanted to bring this up. So in a prophecy given to Ezekiel, which when we get to the next chapter, chapter three, you know, most people go to Ezekiel 36 and 37 and,

draw different conclusions based on whatever particular brand of evangelical group you're with. But we'll also go there. But what I wanted just to bring up, because I thought about how to do this cleverly, is in Ezekiel 40 through Ezekiel 48, it's all temple language. And if I just went there,

And you read the headings. So like I have a 1984 NIV. I've already said my thoughts on this. We've had way better translation since then. But in this, if you go to Ezekiel 40 and just read the little heading, it says the new temple area. And then like midway, you know, it has all these courts and gates and

So you go to the end of chapter 40 and you'll see rooms for the priest, rooms for preparing sacrifices. Then at the end, the very end of 40, it just says the temple. And then in 41, it says rooms for the priest, that whole chapter 42. Chapter 43 is the one I wanted to read a little bit of. It says the glory returns to the temple. And so if you just get a little sampling of it, so in 41,

Ezekiel 43, verse 6, it says, while the man was standing beside me, now he's having a vision, so keep that in mind. I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said, son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. And the reason I'm reading this is when Jesus was having that conversation with Nathanael at the end of

John 1, you remember what he said? He said, I'll tell you the truth. You'll see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. So you go back and start reading this. You think, what is all this talking about? And look, it's much debate. There's people that actually have Ezekiel 40 through 48 as like yet to have occurred. Yeah, most people. Yeah, I'd say the majority of the religious world, they're saying this is going to happen forever.

in a future destination. And the reason I'm going here is to say, it seems to me that John is going back saying, remember that vision that Ezekiel had about the temple? Well, it makes sense when Jesus goes into the temple, says, I don't like what this has turned into. Correct. Because you can see what it was supposed to be here in Ezekiel's vision. And when he says, I am the temple,

I mean, he doesn't say that exact phrase. John throws in, which we're fixing to read it, the temple he was talking about. Was himself. Was himself, and it would die and be raised. Right. And Zach brought up a phrase that, what did you call it? Second Temple. Second Temple Judaism. Judaism. So I feel like we should explain that just because I brought up Ezekiel. And by the way, I didn't read all the other passages

little paragraph heads. But if you do, you see this language in the New Testament, especially in Revelation. And I think it's important. So like chapter 43 in the second half talks about the altar. Chapter 44 talks about the prince, the Levites, and the priest. Just think Hebrews, how this is all going to make sense in the new temple. Chapter 45 talks about the division of the land, which...

You can think about what Jesus said in Matthew 28 when he said, go into all nations because God had chosen the Israelites. And there literally was boundaries of people who worshiped idols and then God's promised land. Remember, this exodus resulted in promised land. Well, it literally was the earth.

That's why when you have strange stories in the Bible, and we'll bring this back up when we get to John 3, but I'm going to give you a strange one. I don't know if you've ever thought about it. You remember when Naaman had leprosy and he went to one of God's priests and they said, now this guy wasn't a part of the Israel nation. And they told him what to go do. You need to dip seven times. And we'll read that when we get to John 3. But

Go dip seven times in the Jordan River, which is where John the Baptist was baptizing people. It's just too much. The Ford we talked about. Yeah, it's too much to be a coincidence. So he goes and dips seven times. Well, he's healed. But I don't know if you remember that after that happened, he said, here's what we're going to do. Start gathering up some dirt from here. And he literally, this is kind of a, what was that old Western thing?

The guy who carried the body, lonesome dove. Lonesome dove. It's kind of a lonesome dove moment. He's like, I'm going to haul this dirt back because he was deeming this land. There's something about this land. And he had been healed. And I think you're going to see that fulfillment when Jesus said, go into all nations. He like broke down everything.

Because he defeated the gods. And when Zach gave his little speech a while ago about the whole history, one thing he did mention, but yes, man sinned and man was the problem. But there was also these evil celestial beings roaming around. And I'm using it plural because Psalm 82 says it's plural, angels. And even when you get to 2 Peter and Jude, they talk about these angels

Angels who were held in gloomy dungeons and all that, you know. So it's like there's a celestial force that chose, just like humans, not to image God. And so it's kind of like man went in cahoots with these celestial beings, and then you have this dispersion of nations, which God chose one.

And so now we have that problem because it's now all nations outside of Israel where they're bowing down to whatever God that's out there. So it's like all these... Yeah, but to your point, those gods they're bowing down to, I think this is very, very notable. These aren't like fake gods. These aren't like made-up entities. These are actual...

real, the term would be Elohims, not Yahweh, but like little gods with a lowercase g in the divine realm, in the divine council. There's a divine council. Yeah, well, that's new theology that, look, that I'm open to because, was that what Zach's bringing up? I recently discovered just

I don't know all the details. Maybe you can help me with this. But in 2010, there was a lot of notable new transcripts found from the scrolls. I'm not sure it was the Dead Sea Scrolls, but I was reading something about this. But it clarified and validated a lot of these Hebrew words used. And the one he's mentioning is, I think that's Psalm 82, isn't it?

The Elohim, well, it's mentioned in multiple, I mean, it's mentioned in Deuteronomy. I know it's mentioned there, and I think maybe Deuteronomy 32. You could be, yeah, the idea, though, is Elohim is a Hebrew word for God, not to be confused with Yahweh, which is the one true God, the supreme being. But there is this word, Elohim, that's used throughout the Old Testament. Exactly. It's also used as like morning stars and sons of God and things.

Which, you know, it goes back to that Genesis 6. I think the basic theology on this is that you have Genesis 2 and 3, man's rebellion. But then you have Genesis 6, which it's like there's a celestial being, sons of God rebellion in the God space, I guess. And so then they come down and...

somehow or another get tied up with humanity. They procreate with humans and create... Think Goliath, you know, giant... Nephilim, they create these... We talked about this with the fuzzy creature guy. Yeah, well, the more I've studied this, I think there's something to it. And...

And even you kind of see glimpses of it in the New Testament. But then you have this third rebellion, which is basically what caused God to choose a nation, which then the land became important because you had the Tower of Babel. And I really think there's something to that. It's like the evil powers. Then you had the earthly kingdoms developed.

tied in with the god that what zach is referring to the little g gods who were didn't retain their place you know and then you have man's rebellion so it seems like that's all working together and then god chooses a plan to not only defeat the powers to uh defeat the the gods but also to redeem humanity or at least have it offered

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or you can visit myphdweightloss.com. That's 864-644-1900 or myphdweightloss.com. Tell them Al and Zach sent you. I mean, you definitely see it in the Tower of Babel because Genesis 6 where you have the sons of, what's the word? I think the term is the men of renown is the phraseology in the scripture, men of renown.

Same word in Hebrew used in Genesis 11 when it talks about let's go make a name for ourselves. Let's build a tower of heaven so that we can make a name for ourselves and not be scattered. So Michael Heiser points this out in his book, The Unseen Realm, that what he proposes is that whatever created this, the Nephilim with the sons of God coming into the women and having sex with these women,

earthly women creating these Nephilim. This is something that happened again. It wasn't like a one-time event. It happened, it created, however horrible it was pre-flood, it got really bad because of this. Then it happens again in Genesis 11, which if you think about Genesis 11, up until Genesis 11, there weren't any nations. That wasn't a thing. Nations were instituted by God and

at the Tower of Babel because of what they were trying to accomplish. And God says, I'm going to scatter them and I'm going to put these nations under these Elohims who ended up worshiping these foreign gods, these created beings that Yahweh had created. And then, very next chapter, that's when God pulls his portion.

Genesis 12, that's when God pulls his own people, which was Israel, and then the whole flow of redemptions continues from there. But if you think about all of this, where does it all begin? It all began in the Garden of Eden when heaven and earth were together, when

It wasn't a separation of the divine heavenly realm and earth. Everything was according to God's will. It was being enacted. That's why when Jesus teaches us to pray, what does he say? We pray for thy will to be done where? On earth. Well, how? Well, just like it is in heaven. Heiser points this out. It's Edenic language. It's returning back to Eden. And so the temple...

is a key part of this because the temple became that kind of prototype place where God would live because we live in our house. Where does God live? Well, he lives in his house. Where's his house? It's the temple. And what Jesus is doing here in John 2 is he's about to really expand our understanding of what it means to be the house of God. He's going to obliterate the whole thing that we thought

And by doing so, he's actually going to destroy Second Temple Judaism, which is why Second Temple Judaism isn't even a thing anymore. Why? Because there's no Second Temple. The First Temple was destroyed in 586 by the Babylonian invasion. Second Temple went down in 8070. There is no Third Temple. Yeah, and that's where we come in. I want to mention that because Jerry's brought Ezekiel into it. Exactly when Ezekiel's having these prophetic visions,

is the timeframe Zach just mentioned. It's right, it's coming out of the Babylonian captivity. And so the second temple gets built. And so that's the, everything you read about in Proverbs, you got to remember something. Here's where people make a huge mistake when it comes to studying the Bible. There has to be a then and there before there's a later.

I mean, those were being spoken into something in the moment. In the moment, that's when that second temple was being built. It was the same temple that would be renovated for almost 50 years prior to Jesus' coming. That's what Herod and the whole renovating of the second temple. But little good it did them, because as Zach just said, the whole thing was wiped out in AD 70. But instead of waiting on what was read in Exodus, and then and there in the second temple, instead of waiting on that, we're saying it's already here.

I mean, that's the difference where we are. That is the difference. So what Jesus is going to do on the Mount of Olives, for example, in Mark 13 and Matthew 24 or 25, when he's going to make this prediction that the temple structure is coming down, you have to understand Deuteronomy 12, it lays out the case that if there's going to be a sacrifice, that that has to happen in the temple.

And that's where the priesthood is located, in the temple. Everything is centered. Put this in your mind for a second, when we talk about the temple, the second temple, which is being expanded. I think it was called the Herodian expansion. The entire Old Testament system is anchored and centered in this structure that was initially built by Solomon and then destroyed and rebuilt.

The whole system is there. If that thing goes down, then there is a major problem because now the issue, this is the point that the Hebrew writer makes. There's no sacrifice for sin anymore. Like there's not because you don't have a priesthood. You don't have a sacrificial system. You don't have a temple. Like the whole system can't bear the weight of it. And it just, so I think what Jesus is establishing here when he says, Hey, destroy this temple.

And I rebuilt it in three days talking about his body. I mean, I don't think I think we got to see this. Not as this isn't some add on in the New Testament. No, what we're talking about here is the centerpiece of the entire biblical narrative being realized in the person of Jesus Christ. That's what we're talking about here. Yeah. No, that's good.

I was looking for that verse that said that we bear the name of Jesus in the New Testament when Zach was talking about the name, but I couldn't find it. But, no, I agree. I'm glad we got into this because, you know, when I read those eight chapters in Ezekiel, I was like, I mean, this is something that from their perspective, when we read what's fixed to happen,

and you realize how they viewed the temple. This was like the most controversial. I mean, this would, in my mind, would it be too far to say this would be like you go into the White House, Congress, because we have different locations, but their hub was the temple.

And you going up there and trying to drive everybody out saying, hey, there's a new system here. Well, think about when they killed him. What was their accusation against him right before they killed him?

He said that he would destroy this temple and rebuild it in three days, which is not actually what he said. It's kind of interesting how they twisted it a little bit. What he says is whatever that happened. We need to find that verse. Where is that? It's Acts 15. Oh, the bear, the name of Jesus. 16, 17. After this, I return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild. I restore it.

that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name. That's what I was looking for, because it goes back to what Zach said in the Tower of Babel when they said, let's make a name for ourselves. And so now you see how Jesus is...

having the opposite effect on that. He's creating a new creation within the creation that bears the name of Jesus, which goes into this imaging. It's for a purpose. Purpose now is God revealing himself to,

in a temple where God and humans would meet, which we didn't talk about, which is awesome to think about, but it's also dangerous. There was danger involved in all of that. That's why you had the rules and all the laws that were put into effect on how we're going to go about this. I mean, you do have to consider...

the shocking nature of what Jesus is doing here. Because I would point you to at least Jesus and Stephen, right?

We're both martyred for basically saying what Jesus is saying here. So that statement in John 2 comes up again at the end of Jesus' life. They do change what he said because I want to point this out. He doesn't say that he will destroy the temple. He never says that. What he says is Jesus answered them, destroy this temple. So he said you guys can destroy this temple forever.

And in three days, I'll raise it up. So if you notice what Jesus is doing here, the posture, the position he's taken when it comes to the temple is you can tear this one down and that's fine because I'm going to rebuild it in three days. They did not understand what he was talking about, which is why they said it's taken us 46 years to build this temple. That's more talking about what Al mentioned earlier.

The temple had already been built. What they're talking about there is the expansion, the Herodian expansion that took place. But then the temple was destroyed in AD 70, and I think where all the confusion happens is the way I read it. So if you go to... Where are some of the prophecies about the temple that people view as the second coming or the final coming? Are you from the Old Testament? No, in the Gospels, when Jesus...

Yeah, one is Matthew 24. Let me just read a couple stanzas of that because I do want to bring up something where all this controversy comes up. So Matthew 24, you know, here I am with all the language we've already talked about. You start reading in verse 1, it says, Jesus left the temple and was walking away. So I just want to stop here before I keep reading.

I'm not coming up with a narrative and then trying to make it fit. The reason we think like we do is because we're reading all these verses. And, I mean, Jesus, he didn't just leave the garden or, you know, some town. It just says he left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. Right.

So Jace, there's a lot going on in the world. It's easy to kind of get distracted. It's something every day that's new that kind of shifts people's attention.

But one of the things that I think is there every day for us as believers, there are babies in mothers' wombs who need help. I mean, they need us to be able to defend their right to be here and to hopefully provide a pathway to get here and to take care of them once they're here. Yeah, and life is special to us, especially the younger they are. Yeah. Just because it reminds us all, you know, the greatest gift possible.

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It seems pretty simple to me, but I'm just telling you, people read this and go crazy. He says, do you see all these things? Well, what things? The temple and all its buildings. The stones. The stones, yeah. Or I just think the arena. Well, in Mark 13's account of it, they actually say,

Look at these wonderful stones. Yeah. Are these wonderful buildings. So look, then he says in verse two, do you see all these things? I tell you the truth. Not one stone here will be left on another. Everyone will be thrown down. Now just hold it. When did that happen? 87. It happened in this statement. If you, if you want to take it literally, uh,

It happened at AD 70. Now, I get it. There's a view of people out there that thinks everything happened in AD 70, and I'm not saying that. You know, immediately it terrifies people because they're like, oh. And the reason this. Yeah, we're not saying that the second coming of Christ happened. No. It's already happened, no. But let me just make the point because I want to at least say the reason people believe that, which I think.

is a legitimate reason, even though I disagree with their conclusion. Because then at some point he says, so I guess what would that be? 36? At that time, so now I'm in Matthew 24, but I've skipped down all the way down to the end. And it says, at that time, the Son of Man will appear in the sky. So people read that and think, well, it can't be talking about the destruction of Jerusalem. It's got to become the second. And I'm like, no, wait a minute.

you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that's factual. What do you mean? Well, they're saying that it can't be the destruction of Jerusalem because now you have Jesus appearing in the sky. Right, yeah. And they're like,

Well, which is it? So I will agree that that is a tough thing to wrap your head around. And I'm just trying to be totally transparent. I don't want to just tell you what I believe without giving you the other side, because when I read that, I used to be confused by it. I thought, well, that sounds like when Jesus is coming back. Now, I will say now, since I've been doing this for 40 years, walking with Jesus, I now have realized that

that part of the reason I think this is misunderstood is because people think he's way off. And like, boy, it's going to take him a long time to travel back. But I've now realized that they're looking at that wrong because if you're an imperishable, eternal being, you're no longer in space and time as we now understand it.

I like to share two things that support your point. One is in the Mark 13 account, when they asked the question,

In verse 3, as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, so he's clearly at the temple here, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, tell us when these things will be and what will be the sign when all these things are to be accomplished. And that's what they're talking about because he just said all the temple's coming down, all these stones are going to be turned over. He just said that. And they're like, okay, well, when's that going to happen?

That was our question. When's it going to happen? He skipped down to verse 29 and he gives the answer to that. He says, so also when you see these things taking place, you know that at the end,

You know that he is near and at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, and this is the line, this generation will not pass until all these things have taken place. So in Jewish culture and in biblical literacy, a generation was understood to be about 40 years old.

Jesus said this 40 years before it actually happened. So I think... Well, that's true. But Zach, I was going to say, you went to Mark 13, but even in Matthew 24, if you'll just let me keep reading, he says the same thing. But Matthew 24 is a little different. Well, hold on. Let me just read it. Let me just read it. At that time, the son of man, this is verse 30 of Matthew 24.

Now learn this lesson. He talks about the fig tree, but then in verse 33, even so, when you see all these things,

you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened, which is, I think, exactly what you just read.

Now, then I think this is interesting. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. So just stop right there. So now when I see heaven and earth, you know what my first thought is? In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Then I think about the tabernacle or the temple. Well, what happened there?

Heaven and earth was overlapping because God was making his presence known, and it was within the Jewish culture of this is my chosen nation. So now if you tie this in with John 2, when he drives that temple out, which is the place heaven and earth meet, God and humans meet, God's holy nation is set apart from all other nations.

When you read the Matthew 24, I'm like, okay, now Jesus became the temple, and then it's validated by his prediction that the temple that was, even though it happened, what, 30 years later, 30 and change, that validates

Him being the temple. Yeah. So to me, it's a prophecy. It's a good word is vindication. And I think that's the son of man reference there. You don't like validation? I like validation. I like vindication better because I like both. It's a stronger term of what's happening, particularly when you read about the son of man coming in the clouds. Like to your point, the

We misinterpret that because we just go back and read Daniel 7, which is what it's a reference of. And the picture in Daniel 7, the direction of the Son of Man in Daniel 7 is not the Son of Man coming to earth. It's not the second coming.

It's the Son of Man going before the Ancient of Days to receive authority to rule over the nations. He's receiving, it's the kingdom coming. So the language in Daniel 7 is not the language of, I think it's very clear, it's not the language of the end times, which is, it's the language of

of Christ coming before the ancient of days of receiving authority and dominion and an everlasting kingdom. That's why we say the kingdom is here now and to come, but it is here now. And so when, when you look at the language of,

But I use Mark 13 only because I think Matthew 24, there are some end times prophecies in Matthew 24. I don't think there's any end time stuff in Mark 13. So it makes it cleaner for the discussion. But when he says that, but basically the end is near, he says that several times in Mark's account, Mark 13, the word end, if he was talking about the end times, he would have used a Greek term called eschatos, eschatos.

which is what we get our word eschatology from. That's not the word he uses. The word that he uses is the word telos, which is what we get the word teleology from, which means intent, purpose, design. What's the end goal here? Like if you ask me, what's the end here? What are you after? So what's happening in Mark 13 is he's saying like, there's a consummate or there's an inauguration coming. There's something, I got something I'm trying to do here and I'm going to do it. This is Jesus talking.

It's really what he laid out in John 2, that you're going to destroy the temple, you humans, and here's what's going to happen. Here's the purpose of the whole thing that you guys have missed it from the very beginning. Here's the purpose of the whole thing. I am going to live with humanity.

humans. No, I'm going to live in humans. I'm going to be the cornerstone of the temple and all of the believers, you guys will be the living stones built upon me, the cornerstone. That's the intention. That's the design. We're out of time. We're way over, but man, the rabbit hole...

that we will continue to go down. We'll pick it up here next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.