Ep 1051 | Jase Reopens Old Wounds & Preston Perry Does NOT Hold Back About Sin
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I am unashamed. What about you?

Welcome back to Unashamed. We love getting fan mail. It's the Unashamed mailbag, which I get. Some of you are not happy with me because I mentioned the mailbag a while back, but we just periodically go here. So I know some of you like that regular segment. I've noticed a pattern of behavior from our audience.

They will hear an argument. And most of these things so far have been non-biblical, the arguments. So quite a few podcasts ago, I had already just disfellowshipped Zach on this issue. But our Unashamed Nation representative has spoken, and they want to resolve an argument that we had that I think was unresolved.

And this was, you'll have to scroll back a few podcasts. Remember when we had the debate about the greatest hamburger and who makes them? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And Zach had everyone on the edge of their seat because... We resolved it. He said he had this secret thing that made it over the top. And he kind of tried to sell it on his body type, you know, because you're thinking...

I never trust a skinny chef, you know. That was pre-PhD weight loss. This was pre-PhD. All of a sudden, he dropped the processed cheese. Yeah, American cheese. I'm telling you. And I thought, no, I'm out. So here was a letter. And I concurred with Jace because I'm a cheddar man. Wanting to resolve the issue. And this is from Shelly. And she gave a few pleasantries and compliments on the podcast. Thank you, Shelly. I'll skip over that part. But I found this part very interesting.

Very on the edge of your seat, Al. However, I haven't been able to get a non-biblical discussion out of my mind, specifically the debate you've had on what is the best type of cheese to put on a burger. As a proud Wisconsinite,

So this is the equivalent to, I would argue, the Godhead of the Bible, if you want to relate that. Well, Wisconsin is the capital of

Yeah. Would you agree? It's royalty. In America? Yeah, it's the kingdom of cheese. I mean, they wear cheese on their head. No, I'll say they're known for their cheese. I agree. And they are in America. Now listen to this. As a proud Wisconsinite and a granddaughter of the founder of Sargento,

which is a company that produces cheese products. Which is one of my favorites. Yeah, and we're not here doing a commercial for Sargento. Although we're open if you'd like to do that. Yes, we are. I use their product. I love their product. My favorite product they have, and it's hard to find, they put peppers in Colby Jack cheese. They call it Pepper Jack because I don't –

So it's like, if you get cheddar cheese, okay. You get pepper jack, okay. But somehow they combine that, but it's not in our area very much. And so I always tell Missy, she's like, what are you out of? And I'm like, go find that. I love it.

So she said, I couldn't help but feel the need to chime in. So she's chiming in on the argument. Okay. Now listen to this. This is her letter, not me. Admittedly, everything Zach was describing as to how he makes his burgers sounded mouthwatering, dot, dot, dot, until he dropped the line about a slice of processed cheese on top.

I literally gasp out loud in horror. Yuck. Processed cheese just doesn't compare to the real deal, Zach. It sticks to the roof of your mouth. It's oily, and it isn't even all cheese. So don't call it that. So what she did is she sent, I guess from her parents or grandparents,

A box of cheese as a compromise. And I didn't even know Sargento made this. Oh, and we have. We got hats. There's a beanie. Well, look at this. The beanie says life is Gouda. Yeah, I'll actually wear that. She sent this. Look at where the cameras are.

Natural American. Look, so it looks like the little slice of cheese that Zach was talking about. But it's real cheese. Yeah, but it's real. She said, I'll put that in your fridge. What's the expiration date on it? I have to try that when I come down. I'm open. Oh, it's still cold. So let's have an argument about that. Cheese doesn't expire.

It just... Well, it gets moldy. Well, it gets moldy, but you cut the mold off, it's still good. Oh, you keep going. I know, I've seen people eat the mold. Yeah, it's just penicillin. Here in France, yeah, they definitely eat the mold on it. So... She said several times... Let me respond with all due respect, obviously. And I'm not... I want to be respectful here, but the other side of the argument is that she is...

has something like she's too vested in this so she cannot see it objectively and I will say that I actually buy their cheese and I use their cheese on sandwiches and everything else agree to agree so you're not anti-cheese no you just think that's better you've never tried this though

Your argument is true. That is natural American. I have not tried that, so I will try that brand. You take a picture of it, Al. Send it to me. I'll send it to you where you can find it. Let me just say this. Because I've never seen this before. Your argument has become the equivalent to Swiss cheese.

When I'm now viewing you, there's holes popping up in your anatomy. No, I'm telling you. You have the t-shirt on right now, the cheddar version, and all of a sudden it's just holes are just cropping up everywhere. No, the people have spoke. But now we have an expert on our side. You do have an expert. But also, I think that her testimony is tainted because she is the heir to the...

to the Empire. We're sorry. I'm throwing it out there. Well, how about we'll try it and we'll get back

The problem is I've got weeks before I could. Hey, look, here's the deal. Oh, that's right. Y'all are both on the diet. All right, so here's what I'll do. You have to be now our decider, Joe. I will because I'm, if there's ever a diet that I have to go on, which I've never been on one, if it involves cheese, I'm like our Sicilian friend that we had on the last podcast. I must eat cheese. Yeah.

It was her gateway into Christianity. You're going to do it. You'll make the burgers. You'll do one my way, one with that cheese right there. Yeah, give it a fair shot. But here's my question. You've got to at least taste it, Jason. I'm not. I've had his. No, you haven't had. You have not had mine. No, I haven't, but I've eaten that cheese.

That I'm telling you, you got to do it the way I said it. And here's the thing. I don't even know if you can be objective at this point. I think you're so pot committed on this discussion. I don't know if you have the ability to be objective. Well, you're wrong. You have brought preconceived notions to the argument. All right. So we're going to work this out where we actually have an actual taste test. I will say this. Upon first inspection visually,

This looks like something that I would ingest in my body. Yeah, I think it's going to be good. When you got to remember where the processed cheese that he's saying, the only reason we ate that as kids was due to poverty. Because that is the cheapest. And availability. Yeah. I also ate mayonnaise sandwiches when I was a kid. Yeah.

Not by choice. Well, let me add one thing to that before. I know we got to get to our break because we've got a guest coming on. But some of the best food that you've ever put in your mouth was born out of poverty. Jambalaya, gumbo, most of the Cajun foods, they all came out of a poverty culture. So don't knock it for its origins, Chase. No, I'm

I'm combining the origin plus the taste because my first reaction to it was a gag reflex. And I thought, this doesn't taste like cheese. And I will say this about her saying that it sticks to the roof of your mouth. Only if it's cold. If it's melted onto a hamburger, it does not stick to the roof of your mouth. And that actually becomes almost like a...

It's not quite a sauce because it's not that runny, but it's like it's in between like a cheese melt and a sauce. But it kind of infuses. That's what makes it good. It infuses with the burger.

It's burger fusion. This looks better. So we're going to try it. We're going to try it. We're going to check it out. All right, so we're going to take a break. We have a guest that has nothing to do with cheese coming up that I am super excited about. You will love to hear his story. It's going to be fantastic. So we'll tell you about him when we come back from the break. Jace, I got a question for you. Yeah. What do Andrea Bocelli, Steph Curry, Justin Bieber—

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Welcome back to Unashamed. We are super excited about our next guest. I have not met you, Preston, but I have read your latest book, and you are one of our people. There's no doubt about it. A believer, a faithful follower in Christ who loves to tell people about Jesus. So, Preston Perry, welcome to Unashamed. Thank you all for having me. It's an honor to be here. Now, where else could you go on the planet? Because I had not met Preston.

Preston either and they said we have a guest so I looked into you and watched some of your videos online which are quite popular they're very good and if I don't surmise this well you can correct me but you basically just have street conversations with people

And the more I watched, the more I was like, well, Preston reminds me of me. Which is what I thought when I was reading that book. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. I tell people all the time that I have so many different, you know, friends. I was just telling you guys about Ray Orland, the old white guy from Nashville. But it's just one of my dearest friends. And, you know, I grew up in a predominantly African-American community in a place called The Hood.

And it's only, you know, the body of Christ that connects people. You know, Christ is the common denominator, just connects us all. You know, our love for Jesus. And so I

I thank God for this huge family that I'm a part of now. Absolutely. Preston, you met Zach. Zach told me y'all met in Angola. And I was like, wait, what were y'all doing in Angola? So he had to tell me what y'all were doing there. Angola, the prison? The prison, the Louisiana, our big prison, as they call it. So what were you doing, Zach? What were y'all doing in Angola when you met Preston?

We were there with God Behind Bars. Layla was singing with Ella Worship and Preston gave his testimony and preached, which I have to say, you did awesome, man. He brought the house down. Yeah, yeah. It was an honor to preach to all those inmates right before they did baptism and just talking to the inmates and seeing so many inmates give their lives to the Lord and get baptized. That was crazy, you know, people coming up to me and telling me, you know,

that they, you know, are going to die in prison, but they're alive in Christ. So that was powerful. I will always remember that day. It was powerful, powerful, you know.

Yeah, I was there a few years ago with dad and I've said this for on the podcast. He had one of the greatest opening lines ever. He said, just because you're under lock and key does not mean that you can't be set free. And that was his opening line. He went to Galatians three about the whole world's a prisoner of sin. And it was just a powerful thing. And, you know, someone told me just this last week person that they, they had piped in dad's message into even death row and,

which, you know, Angola is our death row prison. And I think there, I don't know how many death row prisoners there are, but it went, the message went into there and we had heard back that at least five people had given their lives to Christ after that message. And the guy that was telling me this said he had just been notified this week because we hadn't had any executions in the state of Louisiana in a long time. But one of those five is slated for execution soon.

that just happened. But now we know that he's committed follower of Christ, even in a situation. So it just reminded me of the parable about the kingdom, you know, the guys that get in the last hour, you know, they're still, they're still in, which is the, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could tell it was very obvious, you know, how much you guys as family have made an impact on, you know, inmates for a long time. And so just saying that was, you know, very powerful descriptions commands us to,

care for people who are in prison, you know, as if they were one of us. And so just to see people, other Christians out there doing work for people who are incarcerated was such an encouragement to me, you know, and just seeing them just respond the way they did to us. You could say they just really appreciate it just to know that they're cared for and that people thought about them enough to come and

It meant the world to them. And so I definitely see myself doing it again. Well, and I think that Preston, it seems like to me, just from looking at some of your stuff and I want to get to your new book here in just a minute, because it was so good. I read the whole thing yesterday. It was so, I mean, one setting, I read the whole thing, but the, what I, what I love about it is you and your wife, uh,

like us have found that just transparency and being real about your past, about who you are, about what Christ has done in your life,

is just a complete door opener for people. I mean, it just, you know, that, and that's what we figured out. We figured out that, you know, a lot of people in Christianity, unfortunately, or try to take everything that's ever, you know, not been the best representation of themselves and like lock that away in a closet somewhere and just had this look like we're all great and everything's perfect. And you're like, well,

that doesn't really connect to people very easily. And so I just felt like that's the reason we have such a connection. You guys, you've done the same thing we do. You're just very real and transparent about, you know, where you've been, where you are and where you're hoped ahead. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think you have to, I think for people who feel as if they have to put on a facade, I don't think they really sat with the scriptures. You know, one thing that, that motivated me to come to the Lord is,

When I was, you know, I didn't grow up in church. And so one of the things that motivated me to come to the Lord, even start flirting with the idea of accepting Christianity as the ultimate worldview and the true worldview out there was, was, man, I believe that I started to see I could trust in the validity of the Bible because it was real.

it didn't hide the flaws and the downfalls of men, right? It didn't hide the fact that David had somebody killed. It didn't hide the fact that, you know, Paul was persecuting Christians. It didn't hide the fact that Solomon, you know, had his issues. It didn't hide the fact that, you know, Peter denied Jesus three times. I mean, the Bible is a very transparent book. It does not just have

man's highlights in like, you know, social media, that's all you see is the highlights, the 32nd best lives of people's life. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But you know, the Bible is very, very transparent and, and honest. And so I think that, you know, because of that, we can like read the scriptures and we can learn from these men and women mistakes and we can know how to please the Lord and we can learn from another man's errors. And so how much more us,

And I think that even in my book, I gave my life to the Lord by the man who discipled me, I saw him fail. And the guy used that situation to show me how far I was away from the Lord. So I think that if we start to be more real, I think we can actually make more disciples.

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Tell them that Alan's accent you. The reason I was excited that you were coming on after I watched a couple videos is that because I really wasn't raised in the church either. I mean, I guess I was a young kid when my parents came to the Lord and I witnessed that transformation in

in real life from literally the bar lifestyle. Cause that's what my dad did for a living. He leased a bar and it wasn't a nice bar, you know, it was rough and they didn't really have any rules about our presence in the bar. I mean, that's basically what I was seeing. And I'm actually thankful for it because I was looking around thinking these are some of the most depressing, angry people ever.

I've ever seen. I mean, it was, it actually, you know, it affects people different way, which Al was older than, than I was when my dad came to the Lord. But so I, like you, I,

I was just looking on my own at the Bible without this predisposed theology, I guess. What struck me in what you do and what I do, which is similar, is we're in the book of John now. We're studying, but when you look at what Jesus did, the first red letters in John is a question to his potential followers. He said, what do you want?

And of course, they didn't really answer his question. They were like, where are you staying? And he said, come and you'll see. But and the whole book after John gives this kind of deep theology about how Jesus came to earth in the body of a human.

It then has all these conversations with people that kind of validates God came to earth and he had conversations with people. I mean, you know, you had Nicodemus and, you know, he was a religious leader and he tells them the exact opposite thing that you would ever think somebody would tell a religious leader, which is you need to be born again. Yeah.

And then, you know, in John 4, he talks with the Samaritan woman, which had broken so many rules, just having the conversation at the well. And her past was, to your point, very transparent. And then Jesus, you know, kind of identifies with, yeah, he knows your past, and he knows your present, that you're currently living with a guy that's not your husband. Right.

And then she became kind of the first missionary in that town. I mean, it's just, and I remember reading that at, you know, 14 years old, and I thought the same thing. I thought, man, this is so real and transparent and the opposite of what I'm now hearing at the church building that I'm going to. Wow. Yeah. So maybe that's why we developed this, which I think it's doing Jesus stuff.

Having conversations with people wherever you are, because I think that's how God works. That's amazing. Well, I haven't mentioned the book, but it's called How to Tell the Truth. And for those of you watching, I've got a copy of it here in my hands. And what Jace just talked about, Preston, was learning from the master was the chapter in the book when you talked about what he just said, is that you learned a lot of your skill set to talk to people from what Jesus did. Yeah.

Yeah. Just in talking to folks, right? So talk a little bit about that. You know, people struggle. I have so many on our podcast that say, I want to be able to share my faith more openly, more clearly, but I'm not sure how to do that. And you said in here, in your book, that some people's personality lends itself to that. But we all kind of have a

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think a lot of times when we think about being like God, I don't know if we think about being like God in the terms of evangelism, because I think, you know,

Like we forget that God became man. Sometimes we forget that the God man was actually, you know, a man and vice versa. But I think when you think about when Jesus came to the earth,

And he incarnated himself to come to earth. Like he literally showed us how to interact with people, to talk with people, you know, in his humanity. And so like one of the things that I think that makes people nervous about evangelism is they think they have to know a whole bunch of information. Yeah. Instead of asking good questions so people can teach you how to serve them.

Does that make sense? Yes. And so, for example, you guys just brought up, you know, the woman at the well. Jesus asks her a question that he already knew the answer to. He says, where's your husband? He knew she had five. Right.

Right. But he's asking her a question, right, to reveal something in, you know, to her, namely himself. And I do think that a lot of times when we were out in the streets, I think that if we if we're only asking questions to respond and not asking questions to truly get to know people and we're not truly inquisitive and we're not truly, you know, investigative about, you know, where someone is and where someone believes about God and all the things that

I think, you know, then it starts to become like a chess match. And one of the things I said in the book, like when, you know, you find your identity and the information you know, and not the gods you know, you'll end up treating people like projects and not image bearers. And I do think a lot of times we do that. I think that a lot of times we try to ask questions because we have this like pre-planned script. And sometimes...

So having things, you know, planned and, you know, having, you know, in your mind what you want to say to a person is good. But I do think that you have to ask good questions and then people will teach you how to serve them. And so I think Jesus displayed that really well. I think that he, you know, he asked the man, why do you call me good?

You know, when only God is good. Right. Yeah. You know, where's your husband? And so when I'm on the streets, I'm asking people questions like that, you know, and so it takes a lot of pressure off me, too. That's right. Because I'm not fishing for things to say. I'm actually I'm actually asking good questions and they're teaching me how how how to answer.

how to serve them. And so one thing that I learned about evangelism is that every heart has a cry. I think we just have to ask the right questions to hear it. And a lot of times we don't hear the cry because the questions are wrong or the questions are not there. And so I think asking good questions, I think Jesus displayed that beautifully and,

and listening well and giving truth when the time calls for it. So I think that if we balance that, I think then we'll start to get more comfortable with evangelism. And lastly, I'll just say developing emotional intelligence. It's one thing to ask a good question and then you hear a cry, but it's another thing to how you deal with that cry once you hear it.

Yeah. And so, so, so I think Jesus, you know, he asked a good question. He heard the cross of the people and then he handled it with, with, with gentleness, but at the same time, truth. And I think that, you know, only the Holy spirit can help us do that.

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You said that the success doesn't always end in the sinner's prayer. And I love that picture because you said that the planting of the seed may be the important moment of that conversation that you're having. This may come to fruition much later down the road, which is, again, a very biblical concept. So you're not sure where your role is in this process of planting seeds, right? That's good. That's good that you brought that up because, you know,

I think that's another thing that deters people from being evangelists. They will walk away and say, man, this person did not hear me. I suck at this. And it's like, no, don't. Don't think that. Like, if you think that every conversation is supposed to end with this in his prayer, you'll never be an evangelist. Yeah. Right. Because I think I truly believe that God wants to raise up a generation of evangelists.

that are okay with being seed planters. Yes. Yeah. It reminds me of a, that reminds me of a quote, John Quincy Adams said that duty is ours and results are God's. And I think we want to take on that result, but that means it's not ours. It's his, you know, in evangelism is his to harvest.

Somebody said once, it's like putting a pebble in their shoe. Just put a pebble in their shoe, and you don't know that that pebble is going to sit there, and it's going to cause them to continue to think about whatever you talked about. Yeah, I read in a book one day, the author said, he said, you know the thing that separates us between God, you know that separates God between us?

And he said, God never tries to be us. That's good. He said, God never tries to be us.

You know, but we have this tendency to want to be God. And I think that's the reason why we try to play the Holy Spirit when we're out there evangelizing, because it's something that we're trying to feed ourselves. Right. Instead of trying to serve people. And I do think that a lot of evangelists and a lot of discipleship makers are not really going to see the fruit of their work until we get to glory. And we should be OK with that.

Right. And I think that God wants to use so many believers to plant seeds and somebody else will come to water that seed. I think he'll give increase, you know. And so one of the things I talked about in the book was, you know, the first time I heard the gospel, I was just a little bad kid, you know, in my neighborhood. And I heard the gospel for the first time at a house church.

And what's the crazy thing? I told that story in the book, but what I didn't say in the book, what I didn't tell in the book, I'm trying to give you guys an exclusive of that story. I don't know why I didn't put it in the book. But the same guy who gave me the gospel when I was 16 in the house church, 2019, years later, I'm a Christian. I'm on this tour called the Poets in Autumn Tour, doing like a 44-city tour with a collective of poets and

And I see that same pastor sitting in the front row. And after the show went down there, you know, gave him a hug and all of the things. And he said, when I used to give you guys the gospel out in the neighborhood, you guys would come to the church. I never thought you guys heard me. And what I told him is what I said in the book. I said, man, I didn't give my life to the Lord the first time I heard you give the gospel. But I became keenly aware of my sin. Hmm.

I could not commit another sin comfortable after that. I knew that a holy and a righteous God was watching me. I knew I deserved death because of my lifestyle. I knew I needed a savior. It took years for me to finally, you know, say yes to him.

But God used you. And so when this God came in my life to disciple me, my heart was already ready because the seed you planted. And he just stopped to cry. And I think that, man, like if we can just think about that, that so many people every single day go without a gospel presentation. And if we truly believe that the word of God is alive, right?

And if we share the gospel, you have to know that it's going to impact people around you. Even if it doesn't end with a sinner's prayer, writing it in there, that God could just do wonders. And so I think God just really wants us to be faithful, uh,

And allow them to do the work. Man, that's so good. And I want to, so I was drawn in immediately into the book, Preston, because just you are a gifted wordsmith. I mean, God's given you something. You said in the beginning you were a poet in the book. And so, and then I started reading, I said, oh, this guy is a poet. But I want to read a little excerpt that just, it resonated so strongly with me. Because I grew up in South Arkansas. You grew up in South Chicago.

And yet so much of what you were relating to your own life, your cousins, your grandmother, having that spiritual influence, that aunt that stepped into your life when you needed her. That was my aunt, which happened to be Zach's mom as well. But there were so many things that resonated in my life. But I want to read this for the audience just to let you know how well this book is written. It says, this is in the very beginning in your open. It says, the streets of our neighborhood,

were crowded with different shades of brown boy bodies, but hearts all the same shade of courage.

When dust finally grew legs and chased us home, we would head inside to bathe in our grandmother's smile. Her home was a shower and sanctuary of its own. We watched her become a choir, preparing dinner for her 13 grandsons. We didn't know how privileged we were to sit inside her songs before bed, to grow up planted in her rich soil.

I mean, it was just, you paint such an amazing picture of

It was my childhood, too, you know, in a completely different part of the country with a completely different set of circumstances. But I felt every bit of that, you know, when you wrote it down. So I just I had to read that because it just it drew me into the book so quickly. It was like, man, I got it. I got to hear what this guy has to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, man. I really appreciate that. It means a lot. You know, I wanted this book to inspire all people.

to be evangelist, but in the beginning, I really wanted to pay homage to where I came from. And I wanted to inspire people who came from areas that I came from to know, like when the scripture says, can anything good come from Galilee?

You know, Galilee was not, you know, considered the upper middle class community, right? You know, that God, you know, takes the foolish things of the world and shames the wise. And I wanted to really paint a picture of the people who come from the environments that I come from. So when I said, you know, when dusk finally grew legs and shakes his home, we would head inside to bathe in my grandmother's smile.

We watched her become a choir preparing dinner for her 13 grandsons. You know, we didn't know how privileged she was to sit inside of her songs before bed. You know, I'm just really just explaining, you know, that average guy who grows up in the hood

who grows up in marginalized communities or even like, you know, poverty stricken communities who thinks God cannot get ahold of them. And so I think, you know, when you write a book, I think if you can paint a picture and allow someone to see themselves, I think then I think the relationship with God becomes more tangible. It's like, man, I was, I'm that person, you know? And so I was just really intentional of trying to just paint a picture in the beginning to just cast vision, uh,

um, you know, for people to like, you know, find hope, you know? And so, yeah. Yeah. Well, you had mentioned earlier that, uh, when you connected with that guy who'd led you to Christ, I think I've, cause I've watched your ministry from afar and kind of up close too, cause we've done some work together. Um, and I love what you and Jackie both do. And even like, I've watched what's happening at your church in Atlanta, which is incredible. I mean, you guys are kind of in the middle of this incredible revival. I've watched your, your, your pastor preach, um,

Man, that guy's got some fire. And I watch and I think, man, what is it? I've tried to identify what's going on in your sphere. And I think you said it with what you realized through the man who really led you to Christ or put that pebble in your shoe early on is that recognition, you said it, of your sin.

And you guys don't hold back talking about sin. I mean, you guys are like on the front lines. I would say speaking prophetically in the culture. I think I've told you this before. I know I've told Jackie, but you guys are speaking prophetically in the culture about sin. And I think what as a storyteller, you know, I make films and TV and Christian art. I think where we failed a lot is, you know, think about that, that creation thing.

fall, redemption, restoration, consummation story that's in the Bible. We want to water down the fall part. We want to water down the sin part. But it is that understanding, that awareness of our sin, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It really is what unites us all. And that the wages of sin is death.

We would die for a lie knowing it was a lie, especially when all you have to do is say, hey, I'm out. This is such a powerful apologetic, and it still is to this day. Our good friend Todd Nettleton, who is the Voice of the Martyrs radio host, continues to show us through his travels and his work with Voice of the Martyrs

just how much that these things still inspire us today because persecution hasn't ended around the world. You know, we got it pretty good here in America, but there are places where people are still giving their lives who are persecuted in terrible ways. And he's written a book. If you're watching, I've got it here in my hands. It's called when faith is forbidden 40 days on the front lines with persecuted Christians. And it's like a journey, right?

through all of these places that he's been, which shows you the power of those stories. And one of them that jumped out at me was a man named Iman, who he tells the story from Turkey, but he was actually from Iran. But this man, once he became a Christian, he went to jail, he went to prison, and he went willingly just so he'd have an opportunity to share with others. So there's a

A lot of stories like this, every stop on the journey is going to challenge you to reflect your own walk with Christ. It certainly has for me. Request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059. Or visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed.

I'd love to hear you talk about the boldness of how you guys enter into that discussion because you don't hold back. None of you guys that I've seen in your circle hold back on the discussion around sin. You really are being very bold about doing that, but you're also doing it with love. Yeah, I think to not talk about sin and giving the gospel, I don't think it's no gospel at all. I think before you talk about sin, though, I think

I think a lot of times people call people who talk about, so preachers or teachers talk about seeing fire and brimstone teachers. Um, when some of them are fire and brimstone teachers, but others I've not, they're just actually speaking the Bible like biblically and accurately. Like, it's not like, you know, and I, I think one way in which, um,

You know, you can talk about sin is given the gospel and how the Bible gives the gospel. Right. And so when we look at the scriptures, the scriptures actually does not start off with our sin. Right. It doesn't start off with us with our fault.

It starts off with a good God creating creation and then calling his creation good. And so I think, you know, before we even talk about sin, I think it's very important in evangelism and our sermons, I think that people need to know who they were created by and why they were created. You were created for glory. And so I think then when you know that, when you know that you were created by a holy and a righteous God who created you at the Imago Dei,

who created you in this image, then you see how drastic the fall is. Yeah. Which connects to the cry of the heart that you mentioned. The cry of the heart is I'm trying to get back to my original condition. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Now I need to be restored because the one who created me

the God who created me, I fell from that grace because of sin, sin separated me. So I think that people, when you, when you just come and say, you're a sinner and it's like, okay, well, and I tell them, no, no, you're, you were actually created for glory. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, when I talked, when I talk about sin, I'm always conscious of that. I'm always conscious of how am I showing people that,

That before I try to reveal seeing or talk about seeing of the fall with Genesis 3, how am I talking about Genesis 1? How am I trying to paint a picture of

to them that, man, they know you were created for more than this. And this is the reason why you're not experiencing this. You are separated from this because of sin. So I think then, you know, I think then, you know, we can talk about sin and I think people will receive you talking about sin a lot better. And I think then we could be more bold if we just preach the gospel how the Bible does. That's what people need to understand. That is the answer of all these social issues that...

that we have. Jesus pulls us together. I mean, when I look at your backdrop, I'm like, okay, Preston likes tennis shoes. But if you look at my closet, I have boots. Yeah.

that are like your shoes because I'm in the woods. I bet I have 30 different kinds. To be fair, Preston is a hunter now. He is a full-fledged deer slayer. Have you actually gone hunting, Preston? I did. I did. I went hunting. I got my first deer of...

Three years ago. No, four years ago now. I was in Nashville, Tennessee with my good friend Ray Orland and a couple of guys out here in Georgia. Like, it's not where I live. Like, two and a half hours away. They want me to go hog hunting, but I heard they like

rip people into it. Well, I always remember there's a certain amount of danger to anything that's really exciting. But, you know, as far as culture is concerned, I think what we're talking about is really is just culture and how God wants to use it, but also how God wants to intertwine cultures in the body of Christ. And I tell people all the time, you know,

I come from a particular culture. I come from an urban community. And I tell people, man, God didn't really save me from my culture, but God saved me for my culture to reach my culture. And I think about when we all think about how God strategically...

placed us in different environments for a reason, you know, but for the foundations of the earth, he knew that you guys be a family who loves and fear the Lord, but for the foundations of the earth, he knew that I'll be born in South South Chicago. He knew that I would hear the gospel at 16. He knew that I would come to the Lord a couple of years later when my friend got shot. And because of that, I've been able to lead so many people who come from communities like we took to the Lord. And so like, I think that,

When we embrace the fact that our God is not limited to how we grew up, when we embrace the fact that our God, he's not from our town. He doesn't just relate to us only. We limit God if we don't believe that God has people everywhere. And he wants to use so many different type of people in mighty ways.

I think, you know, one, we won't respect each other's culture. And then if we don't respect each other's culture, we won't learn from one another. And so now, you know, I'm a guy from the hood, but my worldview is,

is so vast now. I mean, not super vast, like I'm the Lord or something, but you know what I mean. It's because I've been able to learn from so many different worldviews. I've been around white evangelicals. I've been around the Asian American Christian community. I've been around the Black community, and I've learned. And so I think that when we learn from one another...

I think then we'll start to see more of Jesus. I think God, we'll start to learn way more about God that we could not learn about him if we only stuck to our small bowls and circles and people groups. And so I just thank God for the diversity that's in the body of Christ. And I don't,

I was thinking about Acts 2 when you were saying that, and Acts chapter 2 when he brings the nations back together, which we've argued on this podcast, it's a restoration of what happened at the Tower of Babel. But I always found it interesting that he does not –

eradicate the differences within the nations and the cultures, he actually brings them together and each one hears the other talking in his own native tongue. He doesn't give them a homogenous language that they're all now. Now, what he does is one guy speaking in his native tongue,

It is a diverse tongue, but now it can be understood. And I think about that eschatological picture of the kingdom that is in Scripture. It's a multi—N.T. Wright says it's like a coloration, a beautiful kaleidoscope in Ephesians where he says that the church makes the manifold wisdom known to the principalities and the powers and authorities in the heavenly realms.

Like that's the picture. And I love it because it is a picture of of this beautiful kaleidoscope of of of different cultures and nations. And we're all kind of bringing our best to the table in the kingdom. And together there is that we make up the temple, Jesus being the cornerstone.

of the temple. God has now made his home in humans. That to me is like the profound, the most profound thing is that God has made his home in human bodies. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Yeah. So we're out of time, man, that seemed to go by really fast, Preston. But in the book,

You called it an unlikely evangelist and an accidental apologist. I would add in an unwilling pastor, and you have our podcast. And we're cut from the same cloth, and I think that cloth is taken from the towel of the Son of God that washes the feet of other people. Yeah.

uh to try to serve them and that's the beauty of what you're doing uh the book is called how to tell the truth and i'm telling you understand nation you're always talking about how can i figure out a way to share better this book will help you do that it's fantastic uh i see uh i definitely see in the future you and jackie coming out here and spend some time with us in the louisiana uh

I want, I'm telling you, I'm not just saying this, guys. I want to hunt. Yeah. I want to get more experiences. You just got to make sure I come back alive. Yeah, you have to come down during duck season. So let me ask you a question before we leave. All right. Is duck hunting the only things you guys do? No, no, we deer hunt too. No, we basically go through the seasons because we were raised in an environment where we

That's how we put food on the table. So we became expert hunters because we kind of went back to the hunter-gatherer. Let's do it. So when you come, you will harvest multiple things from the creation to enjoy.

Yeah, then we'll put them on the table. And then we'll cook them and eat them too, which is awesome. Yeah, because that is kind of our lifestyle as a family. Then we'll gather around. And I mean family as a forever family in Christ. So Preston, please pass along our greetings to Jackie. You guys are doing awesome kingdom work. Keep it up. You're always welcome here on Unashamed. Thank you for being here today.

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