Ep 1056 | Jase, Al & Zach Absolutely Lose It over a Classic Phil Folklore Tale
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My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Daisy, did you catch my sermon yesterday or were you on the road?

Well, look, I'm going to give you an interesting analogy about time. Because look, I don't know when this episode will be aired. Really, only Maddie knows for sure. So look, it will be a certain amount of time from now. Because here's what happened this past weekend. I went on this trip. Oh, it's great.

Well, it was during the weekend that time sprang forward. Is spring a word? Yeah, spring is a word. Spring, spring. I try to use proper English when I'm around guys of your vocabulary. In the redneck world, it's optional. And so, you know, it's an interesting thing if you think about it because here we are in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas,

And I only have about four hours. Once I got to the hotel after the event, I only have about four hours before I have to get up. So you're flying home Sunday morning. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I'm looking at this, my clock that's on my phone.

But it hasn't moved the time back. Because it won't until 2 a.m. So I tried to manually move it back because I said, I don't trust this thing. What if it didn't catch the memo? Because I'm not missing this flight. Guess what? Can't do it. I had to trust a phone. And I don't like that. I only trust Jesus. And I got that from Jesus when he said, I don't trust what's inside a man.

And I thought, you know, I had an idea about how you can make a lot of money. Because in that moment, when I entered the hotel, because it was the night that we're going to spring forward, I would have paid $100.

for an old-fashioned alarm clock yeah because guess what was not in the room alarm clock alarm clock yeah they've gotten rid of them because of phones and even if they do have one you can't manually change it unless you've got a philips head screwdriver so i'm just saying i want to introduce this zach you're a businessman i think if we had a team of people that went on street corners especially around hotels the people that are traveling

and sold old-fashioned alarm clocks, you could make millions of dollars. Because in that moment, I thought, I would buy one. Let's put them on street corners. And look, I introduced this thought on the elevator because surprisingly, I realized Northwest Arkansas's airport is not very big. It's small. Everybody was leaving.

Everybody in the hotel, we all gathered up like cattle. Everybody's getting a shuttle to get out. And I said, you know what? I'm going to make, because everybody was grumpy. Nobody's had any sleep. So you were about to have a marketing. I did it. A marketing meeting. In front of the crowd, I said, I had a thought. And I know it's weird to think, well, these are perfect strangers.

Weirdly enough, everybody... They probably all knew who you were. They knew who I was. And so I was like, I got a marketing idea I wanted to run by you. And they said, we all had the same fear. We were looking for an alarm clock. And I was like, this will work. Yeah.

The only problem with your analogy, Jay, is that it only worked twice a year. I said to pick up a quick buck, but if you organized it, you know, pyramid skiing. It's supply and demand. I was at a concert recently in one of the ski slopes here in North Carolina. It was Need to Breathe.

And it started to rain. Is Need to Breathe the ski slope or the band? That's the band. They're a band. They're like a Christian, kind of Christian country rock, southern rock. So anyway, this place was packed. It was a beautiful setup. And then all of a sudden, the clouds, they start swelling. And you're like, it's going to rain. Well, they had those ponchos. They were selling them. Some guy who had all the vintages. That's it. I mean, and look, these things were probably a dollar.

And there was a lot. Oh, less than a dollar. You know how much you're selling them for? What's that? $15. And you know what they were selling them for when they almost ran out? $25. They did. They went up in price. And I was watching the whole thing unfold. I was like, that guy, he looked at the weather. The only guy that looked at the weather and said, it's going to rain. He bought a bunch of ponchos. I bet he bought...

about 200 of them, sold all 200 and just made a killing. Yeah. So you're on to something. So that was my point. And my point was when I got back, I went and I went out and saw Phil and

And I put your sermon on because he just, you know, his wires weren't. He was having a tough day and I was trying anything, you know, to just connect a little bit. And so I put the worship music on because even though that had already happened,

So think of time. We now have devices. This is the good thing about it. The bad thing about the phone is I've got to trust it on that, which it did come through. Yeah. It came through. Alarm went off. Bam. But now I'm going back in time. It's a time machine to show what just happened. Yeah.

And of course it was blowing Phil's mind because he's like, they're doing that now. Cause he was looking at the, how is this happening? Which was, was good. Cause we were connecting on this. I was like, no, that just happened. And he's like, well, how are you? Cause you take somebody who's having mental issues. This was blowing his mind that we're now. And, uh, we listened to about half your sermon. Cause now the problem is we were really into your sermon, but then I got a phone call. Uh,

Which is another problem with watching it on your phone. Because now my dad's like, hey, he's pushing. That's why I knew I was getting a phone call because he started pushing. I was like, no, Phil, don't push it. It's not working. I was like, let me see it, and I got it. So a phone call interrupts when you're watching TV.

Yeah, and I was trying to help Phil connect, but actually it did more harm than good because now he's like, well, we've lost that. I'm like, no, it's still there. And he's like, well, time, you know, we just got. But then it made me think we just try to understand time. So we put numbers and we but it's moving at a pace that's actually we're not able to capture time.

We put seconds and minutes, but it just is. And we're, as humans, trying to figure that out, but it's passing by, but it's actually timeless. You can't put a number on it. It's just moving at whatever pace this is that we're moving, which is why what is found in this book, and I'm grabbing my Bible, because it's about a person who created time. Yeah.

Just think about that. He's above time. Outside of. He's outside. It's a creation that we're participating in, which should lead you to a creator. Right. That's why when Jesus came back from the dead, you should have said, hold it. Wait. Timeless. Time out. That's right. That's what we use these little slogans like. Let me take a time out. No, there's no time out in time.

But we, oh no, yes it is. We stopped the clock. Well, you stopped that clock, but you didn't stop your clock because it's still moving. We're still moving. So did you, did you make it long enough to hear my story about, talking about stealing?

Did you hear that? No, we got a phone call. So that's okay. So in Ephesians 4 is where I was preaching that down. You remember in that text, Paul gets down to the point and says, those who have been stealing must steal. Yeah, I made that analogy a few times. And so I told the story, and I've never talked about this public. It was funny how it just popped into my brain because I was speaking on the side of our – we have two assemblies that go at the same time, and on our instrumental side –

The crowd is more of a celebrate recovery crowd. And it's, you know, so, man, when I'm talking about all these things that policies don't do, this audience is right with me. Because, you know, we were talking about lying. Yeah. We're talking about stealing. We're talking about hustlers. We got any hustlers in there? You should have seen the reaction. So they're with me. And I don't know. It prompted me to tell the story. I was like, you know, my dad.

He told us when we were growing up, Jace, you remember this. He said, don't steal. Yeah. That was a big thing with that. That was a butt whooping offense. Butt whooping offense. You don't even consider it. If it does not belong to you, you walk right past it. I mean, he did not like thievery at all. He hated it. And that's why he was so protective of his nets and his materials and all that. So I knew, don't steal, no matter what. But I was making the point that stealing in the context of Ephesians 4, I'm

Remember, he says, I don't want you to steal, but I want you to work so you can produce something to give to someone else. So the whole point of stealing is most of the time, especially the people who have had problems with addiction, like most people I was speaking directly to, you steal because you want something. Yeah. You know, the reason you hustle. And it's easy. It's easy. You hustle and sell drugs because you want to do drugs. I mean, and that was totally resonant. So I said, so I broke dad's rule and the rule of the almighty. Yeah.

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I mean, I'm sure I stole something else, but I'm saying the only time I remember actually being a part of thievery was when I was a teenager living apart from the Lord and we wanted to drink, but we didn't have enough money to buy beer. So you stole the beer, Al? No, we didn't steal the beer. This is where the story gets funny. And it was funny in the moment. So I said, we decided we would steal car batteries.

which when you think about it is a really stupid thing to steal because they weigh like 50 pounds a piece. But they were easy pickings because you don't realize how many people at their houses, underneath their carports, there's just a battery sitting out there. It's all around town. But us, in our inebriated minds, we saw that as an opportunity. So we would go and grab a battery and run and jump in the truck and drive off. But there were people hollering. I mean, it's a wonder. We could have been killed easily.

But I said, the only thing I was thinking about was buying beer. And so we would take those batteries and sell them for $3 a piece.

at some place in town that bought old batteries. Yeah. So that's how we made our beer money. And so I said, I said, so if some of you old timers are here today, which would have been the other side of our assembly, I said, if you're thinking, man, somebody got my battery back in 1981, I was like, it was me. I owe you three bucks. So just find me afterwards and I'll make good on it. So now based on our two stories, you've given people outside of the Lord an idea. Yeah.

Twice a year. I was thinking the same thing. How to finance their beer drinking. Don't do it. It's not worth it. It's a bad idea. One is it hurts your back, and there's a lot of bad things, so don't do it. Well, it's interesting enough that I think actually he said it's easy. Sometimes I'm shocked at how difficult it is to break the law and to come up with schemes. And I'm like, man, if you would take that attention. Exactly. And direction that you have for scheming and direct that towards something legal,

You could probably accomplish a great deal. Well, what if I had been shot on somebody else's property, which could have easily happened, especially in 1981, for stealing a stupid battery that was worth $3 to resell? It's idiotic. But my point was, when you're thinking selfishly and not at all how to produce something to help other people,

That was Paul's point in Ephesus. I've only stalled one time in my life, and I was with your brother when I did it. Which one? Well, you got to ask. I know it. It had to be Jeff. Which one? Jeff. He and Jeff are the same age. They had their little prodigals together. And we were at Panama City Beach, and...

This has turned into a confessional. I'm sending Jalpa texts right now. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember where we went. We went into the Salty Dog Surf Shop. The reason why we stole was because our friends were shoplifting. These guys were weird. Me and Jalpa were like,

I mean, that was exhilarating. You know what I mean? So Jeff's like, let's go steal something. I'm like, you want to do it? So we go in the Salty Dog Surf Shop, and we both got a pair of swim shorts, went to try them on, but we kept them under our pants. We never took them off. Well, I'm wanting to fight. Yeah. I mean, that's just sorry.

No, I'm repenting here, but we did it. Did you make restitution? You need to send the salty dog. The salty dog. You know what? Let me tell you the rest of the story. What if the owner of the salty dog is a podcast listener and says, man, I knew those shorts thieves. You know what? I do need to make it right. I'm going to look and see if it's still in business. If it is, I'm going to send them.

a check within, I'll even factor in inflation. Yeah. For what we did. That would be an awesome story. And then see what they said. So, you know what they say? I stole 22 years ago. I hope the statute of limitations is up. No, it is. It is. Is it up? Yeah. Well, what happened was, I kind of see down, hope it's not.

I hope it, yeah. This story would be way better if you were arrested the next time you went to Florida. This story's getting good. Zach busted. Salty dog. Salty dog got him. What's funny is that, Jeff, we went back to the place we were staying at. We were staying with, because the guy's dad, we were staying with like, there was a family there. And so we went, we had our shorts, you know, and

And we just thought, man, that was, we did it not for free stuff. It was like the adrenaline, you know, whatever. The rationalization. I mean, the adrenaline of it all. No, I'm not saying it was wrong. So Jep comes to the guy, the dad comes in there and he's like, hey, there's a cop. The cops are outside. And somebody was seen at the Salty Dog Surf Shop stealing something.

And so Jeff, I mean, he freaks out and he grabs his shorts and he goes outside out the window and he buries his shorts in the sand like he's hiding the evidence. And I'm like, what are you doing? I'm not going to jail for this. Like, wait a minute.

They don't know it. They don't know anything. What are you talking about? Come to find out, the other guys were the ones that they saw because they linked it back to a T-Bird, which is the car they had. And so they got busted. We did not get busted. I'm confessing now. We were involved in some T-Bird back in the day. This reminds me of another biblical story when Aiken tried to hide his ill-gotten gains under the tent. Oh, yeah.

and got burned for the process. So, Zach, this could be the perfect kind of case for Judge Jace to then decide what the restitution... Jace, what would you say? If we were in your court of Judge Jace, what would you say? I would go back to the restitution. I would make you find the owner of the salty dog or his offspring.

And make it right. I would say, look, I am a new man. I now work.

See, this is why sermons work, because this all is coming out of my sermon about me stealing batteries. Well, and you know, he went on in Ephesians 5 to say, don't get drunk on too much wine, which leads to debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit. Exactly. And so it is the new self, and that goes back to John 3 when Jesus was saying, don't be shocked that I'm saying you got to be born of the Spirit. Yeah.

Because it is the Spirit of God. It's the right thing to do, which is underestimated in the Bible. The good news is this. They are still in business. I just Googled them. It's going to be awesome. I can't wait to hear the reply because you're going to say, you know, have a bike and tell them the whole thing. I think what I would do is since you are a new self, I think I would send them the money.

And I would send them a little, because we're imaging God here, which is the number one thing about that is introducing Jesus. And I think I would say, as a judge in this situation, you need to give the reason why.

for why you're doing this 22 years later. And that way, you can pass the gospel message on. That's right. You just say, it's actually 29 years. I just look. 29 years later. 29 years later. You finally realize this is an opportunity to show Jesus. So as a loving cousin of Jeb, are you going to pay for his shorts too? I can't pay for another man's sins. Only Jesus can do that. No.

Only Jesus can do that. You're the judge. What is your verdict on this? Now I'm tapped into Zach's tight side. Yeah. I'm going to make my part right. I will commit to making my part right. We're making progress in this podcast. One good... Judge Jace has spoken. All right. Let us know, Zach, how that turns out. Yeah. All right. So I've been waiting patiently to get to this reference because we did a lot of speculation about what Jesus...

might have been talking about to Nicodemus. But I know one thing he did talk about, and so I want to go back and reference that. Well, I think we know what he was talking about. We were just trying to get the specifics. But I don't know, Jase, if you noticed when you went back to numbers, there's a couple of interesting things that happens before that. Now, we wouldn't recognize it,

But I think Nicodemus would. And so let me just read the text. Well, catch up. Everyone who may not have listened to the last podcast. Give us a context here. We introduced the idea where in John 3,

When he gets down to, I think I should just read it. Verse 10 through 15. Yep, yep, yep. Because Nicodemus in verse 9 is like, well, how can this be? And the whole idea of being born again, born from the Spirit, born from above, the Holy Spirit's like the wind, and

And verse 10, he says, you're Israel's teacher, said Jesus, and you don't understand these things? I tell you the truth. We speak of what we know and we testify to what we've seen. But still you people do not accept our testimony, which is a reference to John 1 when John said he came to

to that which is own, and they didn't recognize him. They didn't recognize Jesus as the Son of God. And remember, the underlying point is this testimony has come from heaven itself. I mean, that's why it's new. And look, I'll just give you a heads up. From here to the end of this section on Jesus' red letters, he really starts highlighting on testifying and testimony. And remember, we did that in the introduction. He's making a case here.

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Verse 12, he says, I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? To your point about, Zach, that you've been highlighting about the temple where heaven and earth would meet, he seems to be getting back to that thread here. So he's bringing things in heaven and earth together. Then he says, no one has ever gone into heaven

except the one who came from heaven, the son of man. We'll talk about that verse later because that's hard to wrap your head around. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the son of man must be lifted up that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. And I want to say one thing before you start out. I think here again, he's going back to something in Israel's history where

while moving forward to something that he's going to accomplish. And remember, he's having a conversation with a guy who would fully understand the context of this incident, this bronze snake. Which is Numbers 21. I mean, to us, it's kind of an obscure story in the Old Testament, but Jesus highlighted it here. So I want to show you something before we read this, because something you may not have noticed.

In Numbers 19, and then again in Numbers 20, guess what happens here in the middle of the desert? We have this huge conversation about water, and we're in the middle of the desert. I mean, it's hard to find water, especially because now we've already crossed the Red Sea. Now we're out in the desert. We're heading towards the Promised Land. First thing that comes up is this idea of the water cleansing.

And this was this idea about somehow having a way to have purity of uncleanness. Now, we know that it literally didn't take it off. There had to be something symbolic about the idea of these cleansing waters. I like where you're going with this. This is my whole argument, Al, and you're making it for me again. I know it. And so he talks about that. And then he gets to verse 20, I mean, chapter 20 of Numbers, and there's an incident there. Water in the rock. Water comes out of the rock. Who was that?

Had to be Jesus. It was Jesus. 1 Corinthians 10 is your cross-reference. So those two incidents happened before the snake. And Nicodemus understood that because he had studied that his whole life. But he didn't make the link to who Jesus was. That's where the confusion comes in. Which is Jesus' whole point here. Who is Jesus, which is a question that every human at some point will consider.

And whatever your conclusion is, is the most important conclusion that you'll ever make. That's right. Who is he? Who is he? Which is why I love the book of John. He's making his case. Right. So I call this section, when I used to preach out of numbers, this was called Snakes on the Plain.

P-L-A-I-N. Al, that is so cheesy, it's actually brilliant. That's what I used to call it. I had a server call snakes on the plate, and this was it. This is the cheesy side of what we have to offer, but I like it because you won't forget it. You won't forget it. Snakes on the plate. So they traveled from Mount Hoare. This is Numbers 21-4.

along the route to the Red Sea to go around Edom. So we're out here, we're wandering now. But the people grew impatient on the way. So remember now we've had the water of cleansing. He literally had water come out of a rock that wasn't, it wasn't like it was already flowing, like he wrapped the rock and then God provided. And this is after the water being parted so you could be liberated. So you'd think they'd be like, okay, God's going to take care of us. Nope. Yep.

They spoke against God and against Moses. And they said, why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There's no bread. There's no water. Although we've already had it. And we detest this miserable food. Which shows you, because I think a lot of people think, if I just had a miracle happen in my life, I'd follow. Or if God would just tap me on the shoulder and say, hey, get it right. Well, then I would do it. What?

What's the problem here? Yeah. It's because temporary inconvenience and uncomfortability rules out with human beings. Yeah. We love to live in the moment and be comfortable. So even though you've had delicious God-baked bread falling out of heaven for you to pick up and eat. And how about the quail? And the quail. I mean, what are we doing? So because of this, the Lord sends venomous snakes among them.

They bit the people, and many Israelites died. So we got a little plague that happens now to Israel in the form of snakes, which, let's face it, we don't like snakes, especially poisonous snakes. I still don't like them. Exactly. They serve a purpose on the planet, but they're scary because...

If they bite you and you don't have time to get somebody. And Jason and I both have been sitting in a duck blind. It typically happens earlier in the year. And you hunt all morning in your bags there and all this, and you go to get out of the blind. You look back and right under where you were sitting is a big coiled up

Cottonmouth. It's happened many times. Many times. You're like, I was reaching all around there all morning. You can go back through the archives of the Last Thousand podcast, and we've shared many near deaths about snakes. Venomous snakes. And a lot, some were funny, some were not so much. But, I mean, just the most funny remembrance I have of any snake

snake encounter was one day we cleaned out a blind. It was like half a day's work. And my dad was kind of perched on his side of the blind saying, well, we did it and nobody got snake bit. He had just said that we, we, and we, we had killed a couple of snakes. We had killed the wasp. We killed the spiders. Everything was cleaned up. And I looked beside his head cause there's a button willow bush and

And there was a cottonmouth called up, I'd say six inches from his ear. And he's declaring, the blind is clean. And I said, Phil, there is a snake right beside your ear. And he was like, yeah, good one. I was like, Phil, I'm serious. He's like, yeah, tell me another one. Ha ha. He was...

And finally we all said, Phil, don't move. And it's like weird when you say don't move in an environment, that's the first thing you do. Phil looked at that and it was like, I can't believe there's a snake. Out of the way, I came up, boom, shot the snake. And he's like, you have got to be kidding me.

It just shows you boys never get overconfident. Pride is the fall of man. He gave you a verse on it too. He started preaching a sermon because now he was, you know, when you have a near-death experience, which that was. Oh, yeah. All he had to do was...

And he just sat there, you know, thank you, Lord. And yeah, that happened. Yeah. I told this story on the podcast before about the one, I was in the blind when the one was laying on the log and it was the wintertime. It was the only thing that saved you because he tried to bite you, but he was a little slow, probably lethargic maybe, but that white coming right at your face. And I'm in the blind and I hear, yeah, yeah.

And then it's 1001, 1002, boom. And then it was like, what just happened? He said, I almost got snake bit. But he was like, high level. Oh, I know. I mean, we've had multiple. I mean, I'll tell you one more quick one, and this has nothing to do with this snake. I don't think I've ever told this before because this is lowbrow, but it's a true story. So Maddie's going lowbrow on me over there.

So look, me and Jay Stone are riding on our property and we rounded a bend and we both instantaneously said, no.

good grief look at the size of that Congo and I'm scrambling for a gun it was in the middle of the road head cocked up and we both did jump out like military trained people and I never went to the military but Jay had we came at it from two separate angles and it was just sitting there and I thought because I

I thought this was a declaration of war because usually we've killed so many snakes on our roads. They stay away from where we travel. And this one's got his head straight up. Straight toward the four-wheeler. And we got closer and closer, and I'm like...

There was some debris to the side of it that was white. And I thought, what is this thing snooping around in the trash? And when we got about eight feet, safety's off, fixing to fire, we realized that this is not a snake.

Someone had an emergency bowel movement, and it looked identical to a cottonmouth, including a discoloration of the popped-up head. Oh, man. Gosh. Oh, Lord have mercy. Forgive us. Forgive us, Lord. We started laughing so hard because the white debris was actually toilet paper.

So we get back home and we're telling Phil's like, you're not going to believe this. We stalked a pile of poop that looked like a cottonmouth. And Phil said, boys, I had eaten some Mexican food. We have to take a break. You can't write this. We've lost control. True story.

And now Phil is confessing. He said, boys, I got to apologize. He said, in my angst, I couldn't even get away from the road. And look, here's the most incredible part of that story.

That evidence of bad Mexican food stayed there in that road for three months untouched, repelling the rain. And I thought, man, what a... You got to stop, man. Oh, gosh. I'm ready to go. I just can't.

I don't know how we get back into the Bible at this point. I mean, I feel like whatever you've done has ruined. So, Jace, we were in the school of preaching, and you were the first person to introduce me to early Christian leaders who were martyred for the cause. And it impacted you so much, it's also impacted me as well. Yeah, at that stage of my Christian growth, I was just so impressed with the fact that these guys would give their life for

And it made me realize, well, who would do this if it was all just a sham? There's a book and it's called When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians.

It's written by Todd Nettleton, who is the Voice of the Martyrs radio host. I have to say, Voice of the Martyrs is a group that I began to follow, read their newsletter, and see the work that they're doing. They're amazing. This new book that Todd has written invites you on a powerful journey to meet those bold believers and to hear stories. And this is a 20-year journey.

that he's taken into restricted nations. And these stories that are in here are so fascinating. And these are modern stories of people that continue to lay their lives on the line for faith. And here's the beautiful thing about it. You can get a free copy of this book, When Faith is Forbidden, today. So you don't want to miss out on the opportunity. Request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059 today.

That's 844-463-4059 or visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed. Look, we had a studio audience. We've lost them. They're gone. Yeah.

They're from Kentucky. So that was a true story, but, I mean, it just shows you what happens in the wilderness when you're terrified of snakes. I mean, that was not an embellished story, Al. It happened. That was a true story. I've actually seen a picture of it because Jay took a picture of that. Oh, boy, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, there's a picture.

Yeah. I don't know that we want to show. Maddie said no show. Yeah. Wow. I'd kind of like to see that picture. But I don't know how. Let me tell an intermediate story to help us recover. Okay. Because to get to the Bible. But I mean, look. Life happens. It's just as soon as snakes came in, this is what happened. But the point is that snakes are a big part of our lives. My mom...

Got bit by a snake when she was a little girl. She was eight years old, I think. Well, when I say that, we're acting like we're talking about lowbrow things. God created us to do that. We have bowel movements. Deal with it. I just want to throw that in. It's like, oh, we can't talk about that. I probably won't use that if I ever preach this text, but I think the story...

I didn't know the story, so you shocked me. I did not see that coming. I thought we had told that story before. I don't know that we ever have, but if it did, it wasn't as funny as it was. It's been told around many a campfire since it happened, and we always laugh about it. But, I mean, because it's just funny, you know, but that's a true story. Yeah. Yeah, but Jan got bit. She was running through the front yard.

Luckily for her, she was only eight years old. Only one fang got her was the way granny always told me this story. But she got super sick and, you know, could have died. I mean, small. Could have died. Well, I mean, back to this. It does seem, when you first read this, it's like, well, God's being mean here. I mean, it seems like a lot of people read this and it makes them uncomfortable. They're like, well, God is a God of love. And all of a sudden he sent poison and snakes.

He's rescued these people. He's blessed these people, and they've turned their backs on him. And so, look. So let me get back to the point. So the people came to Moses. So to your point, Jason, they said, we sinned. We spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us. So they've realized in the moment that their grumbling and complaining has led to this moment. So Moses prayed for the people.

Now, it's interesting because God could have just...

Taking the snakes away. I mean, he allowed them to come in. I don't know what they were. And I wanted to say this. He allowed them to come in, but look, you still, the, the real wilderness people out there probably. I mean, I do well with snakes just because I've been around them my whole life. He still gave you a chance to work this out. You want to battle some snakes? There you go. You deal with it. So the Lord said to Moses, here's what you decided to do. And this is where I think the point that even way back then, uh,

obviously because Jesus brings it up, there was this idea that you had to have faith and believe in who God is. Because think about the context of this moment. They didn't believe he would take care of them. Yeah. That's what they keep going back to. That is the point. Are you going to trust what God says? Exactly. And that's what leads up. I don't know if you've read verse 8 yet. No, I was about to. So it says, make a snake and put it on a pole.

And anyone who's bitten can look on it and live. Now, that's an odd way to choose to do it, but that's what God told him to do. So Moses made a bronze snake and put it on a pole. And then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived. So he came up with this kind of, from our perspective, inane, crazy process. But Jesus compared it to the lifting up of the snake to look up at it.

as him being lifted off the earth on a cross. And I want to interject this. Now, look, I know this is not a rabbit hole. This is just Jewish literature. If you go back and look at Israelite behavior and their view of snakes, which it's not like mine, but they, and I think it came from Egypt and Egypt,

They viewed snakes as healing slash new beginnings because of the snake. You know, have you ever seen a snake skin? Yeah, it's like they become new. And so that process enamored that world. And it's like you can reinvent yourself like a healing process and like take off your skin. So they tend to.

They called it, I forgot what the term is they called it, but they used snakes in the form of it as a way to worship the god of healing and regeneration with the new snake skin. So that's how the medical world, because it does seem weird, because I actually found one treasure hunting one time from like,

1950 it was a little medical symbol with the two snakes well there's two different ones i gave it to the owner or i would actually show it to you but it was spectacular yeah i mean it was like a piece of jewelry worth a lot of money but it was the symbol of healing with the snakes wrapped around it's called the rod of asclepius is the greek one and then there was one called the caduceus

And one of them is a single snake, and one of them has the two snakes. But to this day, they're still used as a symbol. But that's where it comes from with the shedding of the skin. And probably this story as well, because this story's been around a long time. The idea that if you look at it, there's healing. So the concept is there. But I think the point is this story in Numbers was a reminder for the Jewish people that

All things, all true cleansing comes from the Almighty God. The water of life comes from the Almighty God. And so Jesus is using those old stories and illustrations from the desert, as Jace mentioned, the Red Sea crossing, all of it, as the idea that everything has been pointing out to this time. Mm-hmm.

that I am the water, the Spirit is the wind, the healing comes from me. I mean, you see all this stuff kind of coming into view, and he's trying to explain this to Nicodemus. He's like, you should know this from all these stories. Exactly. But to Nicodemus' credit, I mean, how many of us would understand as well? They had it in their mind. There's also this idea, if you think, go back to that Numbers 21 passage, what's weird about it is that what was the thing that caused them to be sick?

It was the bite of the serpent. And then the thing that was healing them was the bronze serpent. I'm laughing because a while ago, a story caused you to be sick. I mean, you literally gagged. That was our first gag reflex. I mean, you're making a great point, but I just couldn't help but think that. You're like, what caused them to be sick? I'm like, well, sometimes you just hear the story about it and it makes you nauseous. Sometimes you hear a very, what do you call it, lowbrow story. Yeah.

But it is interesting. I think it's emblematic or representative of Genesis, right? That the serpent was the one who made them sick, so to speak. And so there's that imagery in the Old Testament in Genesis, which some people consider that to be the first gospel, where Jesus will crush the head of Satan.

And so what you're getting a picture here of the full scheme of redemption, that Christ is to look up at Christ. And that's the irony of that, that bronze image.

serpent is actually what they're saying is this is god's defeat of the serpent and so you're seeing it played out with jesus who his heel will crush the head of satan and his heel will be bruised um as the prophecy in genesis chapter three that's being accomplished here that's the story look up you're you're looking up to the son of man who now is that bronze statue of

of serpent who will defeat the serpent and the sting of sin, which is death in the end. I do want to give you a one little Paul Harvey, the rest of the story, because this bronze snake winds up making the trip into the promised land. And it winds up being in the Ark of the covenant with a lot of other things from the trip because the God wanted them to remember what he did. Yeah. This is fascinating. So we get in second Kings 18 and guess what happens?

In this time of idolatry, the people start worshiping the bronze snake. Exactly. And so Hezekiah, who was the king at the time, said, cut that thing into pieces and spread it out all over Israel where we won't worship the bronze snake. So it just shows you the idea that even the symbols, people tend to want to worship them.

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It's so tempting to say, well, there's America. I'm kidding, but I'm saying even us, you forget that it was God who saved them. It's not like the building where we go. Because people in our religious culture, they somehow attach...

what happens in the church building, like the bronze snake, you know, it's like, oh, and they forget. Well, they'll even use the terminology from the old temple. Like we got the sanctuary, we have the altar, we have the, you know, we bring forward all the things. You try to go into an old church that's been sitting there a while,

And or they or they're stuck in their like they're stuck in their way and you take and you try to move a tapestry or you try to move a pew or you move a pew. I mean, it's like.

Whoa. But it's because we hang on to that structure because we want to be able to control it. But it is kind of the same exact thing. Nothing wrong with the church building. I meet one every Sunday. But when the thing becomes... Even the gospel itself, you can turn the gospel, we've talked about this on the podcast, into a formula. It's the Christ of the gospel over the gospel of Christ. It's the God of the word over the word of God. It's always God. He's central to the whole thing. But we...

we take the things of him and then we, we, we see power in that we misappropriate the power. And then we start to worship the thing that's bringing it instead of the one who sent it. Yeah. I mean, which was, it leads to a person. And that was the point about baptism. That was the point point about the spirit. I mean, he's wanting God. We're going back to the beginning. God wants to dwell with people and, you know, my clothes in line, uh,

of the event was like, look, God wants a family. And this whole thing's about getting his family back to him. I mean, at the end of the day, you got to kind of look at the big picture here. That's why Jesus came here. Right. I mean. Which is why he goes for the rest of this text in his last like closing argument,

to Nicodemus is basically, I think, a recreation of how John started this book in John 1, 1 through 18. Yeah. He goes right back through that because he uses all the same term

terminology begins at creation. He goes into life and light. That's where he's going to go in those. But just look at the picture today. I mean, when you try to live your life without God or, or given thanks to him, I think Romans one, you know, or acknowledging God, it's the equivalent of going out there and battling poisonous snakes, you know, me and you can't do anything about time. And, you know, you, you make all these analogies, uh,

I mean, you can try to do everything right. You know, Missy said the other day she was listening to a podcast. It was a political. Well, I guess she's a political. Megan Kelly. And she had a guest on who rich guy.

Not a believer, I don't think. But he lived by a mantra of staying alive. I mean, he went, what was that movie, John Travolta, Staying Alive? And he basically spends $2 million a year

On his health care. I'm saying this guy likes toys. He had the numbers of the rate of life as it is to time, like on how long you live. And his had it graphs and all. And he's aging less now.

than all other humans. Because he's got this regimen. Brian Johnson, they call him the billionaire biohacker. Yeah, and Missy just goes through this long story about all this. And we laughed about like we did a while ago. Of course, this is not going to be as funny because you would have had to build up. She's talking about all these things. Because Missy's not as lowbrow as we are. All these facts. And I just said after she talked for 15 minutes...

on what this was about because she was just like, can you believe this guy? And I said, well, what happens if he gets hit by a bus?

And she just busted out laughing, you know, because it was like she was missing the forest from the trees. You know, it's like he's done all this stuff. And, yeah, he'll probably get hit by a bus one day. You know, there's no – this is not – this is your plan. You're going on well-known talk shows and podcasts, and everybody's enamored that you've somehow stopped the age of life by 0.3 percentage points, you know. Yeah.

But they call it deceptively, they call it anti-aging. But I'm like, but you're not anti-aging. You may have slowed the decline, but to be anti-aging is actually to say we are going to overturn the second law of thermodynamics. Yeah, that's my point. Yeah, but to your point, even if you could, what if you get hit by a bus? Yeah.

Which is probably going to happen. Would you say, Jez, the people who are in great shape are going to die healthy? They're going to die healthy. And everybody always thinks, should I laugh at that? Because they have put all their emotional stability on the fact that they're in shape. They're eating right and they're working out. They're like, I'm good. I'm like...

You're really not. You know, you will just die healthy by a bus or just random. Which is great. Quality of life matters. I think these are great discussions to have, but when you start talking about anti-aging or reversing aging out, because I was talking to someone the other day, they said they were into reverse aging. I said, but do you actually reverse aging? Well, no, we don't actually reverse it, but we can slow down. I said, okay, why don't we just start there? But that doesn't sound good probably for marketing, but

But it is, I mean, it is kind of the thing that everybody is up against. And I think that in John 3, it's interesting that that's, I think this is kind of what we all try to do, which is essentially we want to take the thing and whatever it is, aging or whatever. And I want to, I want to make sure I can like build my container around it so that I can hold it and manage it and control it.

which was, I think, the problem that Nicodemus had coming into even the discussion, because when he comes into this whole discussion where Jesus unfolds this dialogue, his whole point was, all he said was, I just see you're a man from God. God's with you, because there's no way you could do the things you're doing. Jesus is the one that turns the discussion to the kingdom. He's the one that says, well, yeah, you can't be. He planted that seed of the kingdom, and then I think this is the transitional verse,

When he says that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life, keyword everyone, because then he doubles down on it. Now he was talking about Israel's history. He used the snake on the pole. I believe he referenced the Red Sea and the wind. And then he's like, I mean, you need like some kind of drum and crescendo because he's like, everyone who believes in him may have eternal life for God so loved the world. Yeah.

that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Which that perish to go with that story now,

It kind of has some legs there, too. I mean, they started perishing by snake bites, and now here's Jesus for everyone. That's why I love the idea of being lifted up. And I go with the 2 Corinthians 5.21, God made him who had no sin to be sin for us. So that ladder we talked about in John 1.51 between heaven and earth is Jesus lifted up for all of mankind. Yeah.

To be able to trust and have salvation, which is his point. And don't you think that in verse 13, when he dropped that in, when he said no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man, that that was another prediction on what was going to happen? Because not only did he come here to die on a cross, he came here to die on a cross, be resurrected, go to the right hand of God. Think the book of Hebrews. Yep.

And then open up the portal to God's presence for all humans. Him with a new glorified human body representing the humans. I mean, that is incredible. It's reestablished glory, which we've talked about a lot. So we'll finish up this part in 316. Then we'll get into some of the back and forth that we kind of teased with John the Baptist and Jesus' disciples.

Next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.