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cover of episode Ep 1059 | Jase & Missy Robertson’s Son Proposes to His Girlfriend & It's Total Chaos

Ep 1059 | Jase & Missy Robertson’s Son Proposes to His Girlfriend & It's Total Chaos

2025/3/19
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Unashamed with the Robertson Family

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Jase Robertson recounts the chaotic and unexpected events surrounding his son Cole's proposal to his girlfriend, which felt like an episode of 'Duck Dynasty'. From stormy weather to uninvited critters and a cake emergency, the proposal was an eventful affair.
  • Jase Robertson's son, Cole, proposed to his girlfriend during a storm.
  • Missy Robertson cleaned up their home, which had been damaged by a tornado, for the proposal.
  • Cole's proposal was a surprise for his girlfriend, although everyone else knew.
  • The proposal involved stormy weather, a mouse incident, and a cake mishap.
  • The family gathered at a farm for the proposal, which was decorated for the occasion.

Shownotes Transcript

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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm back in studio today. I had a brief...

time in my southern lair studio my crack staff here is trying to get me set up down there well i think we finally got it yeah our crack staff of one yeah well one and josh contributes everyone so we were just talking about maddie who's your who's your crack staff i don't know like he's living in a different society parallel i was like crack staff

Crackstaff. Crackstaff is Maddie and sometimes Josh. He seems to be the troubleshooter. Josh used to do our podcast. I was on an adventure. You were? Yeah. It literally was like I was part of a Duck Dynasty episode with no cameras. But I felt that they were there because everything that happened just seemed like a movie.

Isn't that something? Yeah. Like some weekend. I think you would only feel that way if you've been on television. Where did you go, Jace? I went to a little place called Nashville, Tennessee. Oh, I've heard of it. The eastern layer for Jace. Something happened in Nashville this past weekend. I can't remember what it was. Yeah, it did. It was epic. I was there. No, I'm saying it was epic. I'm trying to remember. Oh, I just remembered what it was. Yeah, Florida. Florida won the SEC championship.

Yeah, and while that happened, the Florida baseball team got swept by a little place called Tennessee. So all the Vol fans out there are cheering, Zach. They're cheering now. So anyway, my son, my –

remaining single son. Oh, that's right. I was hoping to hear this story. Oh, Al, love is in the air. Oh, I heard it. That was the theme. But the reason I felt like... J.C.'s never looked more like you. I saw the picture and he looks just like you. Well, I'm sure he'll appreciate that. Yeah. So, uh...

Yeah, it was something. He's in love, you're saying? Is that what you're telling us? Yeah, he's in love. He popped the question. He proposed. And we had these storms come through. And I'm mindful that a lot of people lost their life. Yes, it was a bad one. So our hearts and prayers go out to them. But that was kind of the backdrop for this. So, you know, my place got hit by a tornado a year ago. And it still...

Not livable. We tried it. No. Cole lives there. But, you know, if you're a single guy, it's a camp, I guess. Yeah. Because half of my house is gone. And the other half, they've kind of, you know, duct taped. So Missy cleaned it all up because the proposal was going to happen there, which Cole was like, you know...

Hey, he calls his girlfriend. So you knew this was going down. We knew this was going down. Everybody knew except his girlfriend. It was a surprise. Her family was coming up from parts unknown. And they knew about it.

Well, yeah, this was a surprise. Because he had already asked them for. Oh, yeah, everybody knew about this but her. Okay, I got you. I didn't know how this thing was going down, which I realized during the process, my son is way more romantic than me or pretty much any guy I know. You know, that's a low bar. It is. It's a low bar. But then we had to move everything up because the storm. We're looking at the radar, you know.

Oh, right, because there's another. Well, the wind was blowing 40, 50 miles an hour during the night. Missy had cleaned the house, the remaining part as well. But when we walked in, my daughter and I flew into Nashville. And long story, Missy was already there because the anticipation was just, oh, I mean, this was like. Women love this. Al, this was like opening day of duck season.

For all the females. There are shows. You don't know about them and I don't.

vaguely know about them that are built on this premise. The entire season is about the proposal all leading to this moment. Yeah, one of my best friends told me before I went, he said, you're going to have to be real mindful of the situation that you're in. I did my best. But the bad thing was... That's a good friend telling you not too much. Just when you think of something funny. Let me see, clean this place up. I go out there, you know, and...

We had met somewhere else when I landed. Oh, we all went to kind of a little private restaurant thing at some golf place or whatever. And I actually met an excellent human being. He's an NFL football player and a believer. So that was good. And so when we get to our little home,

Missy goes in there, opens the first drawer. I'm not sure why she opened the drawer. Just right there in the kitchen. And a mouse about four inches long just jumped straight up in front of her face. That's why I said it felt like an episode. I mean, how does this happen?

Well, you know, Missy doesn't do critters. Because reality TV, that's something you would have killed for. It happened naturally to you. Oh, she just lost it. And I think it was all the drama. And now she's face-to-face with the beast. Yeah.

Which I thought was kind of funny, you know. It's very funny. But I looked around. Not so much to her. Saw a few droppings here and there. From Missy or the mouse? No, from my. I thought you meant she was really frightened. Remember that time I told you the story on this podcast? Well, what's happened is I eradicated that problem in our storage room.

With the two giant buckets of dead rats? I remember that. They just moved over. And now, because everything on my hill is gone. All the woods are gone. You're the only structure on the... Yeah. They've all moved. And it's not just that. In fact, well, now the wind's blowing. They got all this temporary roof and all kind of things to keep the water out of what's remaining.

When we try to go to sleep, and you know we have a little fan that works as a sound barrier so you can sleep. When I woke up,

Because I dozed off. But then I woke up because I was dreaming that I was in a rocket ship coming through the Earth's atmosphere. And then I realized it's the 50-mile-an-hour wind on the house. It was undoable. So I finally eased back to sleep. And then I went Jack Elam where one of my eyes opened because I realized there's something crawling on me. And it's in a region that you don't want things crawling. Oh, boy.

And so I just, you know, and I never, I didn't realize at the time when it was, but I thought I had killed it. And so then I went and tried to get some sleep, but it was pretty miserable. And so the next morning when we got up, which I might've got two or three hours, Missy got less than that. There was a dead beetle. When I got up, it was just a dead, like a beetle. Yeah. Crawling up my leg. I mean.

And Missy said, I can't take it anymore. So we moved. We had a company move. We had a camp out at Reed and Brighton's with the three grandkids. Which actually, based on the night we had had, it was like we were staying in some nice resort. Swanky resort. Once a few kids hollered. Exactly.

So anyway, Cole, he did the proposal out at the farm. He had decorated the porch, you know. And then we met up with the family, which we had never met. And when she walked in, she pulled up, which she knew when she pulled up because she saw all her family's vehicles. So it wasn't that, like, that surprise was...

And let's face it, she's been waiting for this probably a while because they know when things, they can anticipate. Well, they've been dating about, what, two years, a year and a half? Yeah, a couple years. Yeah, a couple years. You know when they actually met, Jason and Missy, for the first time? Zach, you and I were there.

When was it? At the K-Love Awards. K-Love Awards, yeah. That was the first time that she met Jason Missy was that night. Oh, I thought she met Cole. Yeah, okay. No, they had already been dating. I felt bad about that because, you know, when you're there, we were presenting and all that. It was like, hey, how you doing? I mean, that was it. It was just, we only had a minute. But, oh, she's just beautiful.

I mean, high quality human being. Well, when she came in, you know, they had this sign and I looked at it, I read it. It said, love is in full. I just thought, wow. That's why your friend told you to just be quiet. It's a phrase that I've never used. I've never used nor seen.

Something tells me that Cole did not come up with that sign that he had. No, I think that was Brighton.

So, look, the backstory. So, the C story was Reed had gone to get the cake. That would be the name of this episode with something twisted to duck. So, Reed had gone to get the cake. So, Reed's got three kids, three, two, and one. He has the kids. He goes and picks the cake. I mean, gets all the kids out. Because, you know, Brighton's making the home. Is this the B story or the C story? The meeting was at Reed and Brighton's. Yeah. No, this is the C story. Okay. We have the battle.

Okay. At the hill. So that would have been the A story. Oh, yeah. Then we have the engagement. Well, no, the engagement was the A story. That's the A story. Yeah. And then the C story is Reed going, and he's the errand boy. So, folks, for those of you wondering, this is how you produce an episode. This is it. It all happens organically. This is how it happens. This is making the sausage. So Reed goes and gets the cake. You know, you have one job. You go get the cake.

But you have three small kids. I see where this is going. Put a camera in there. Put a camera. So, Zach, the day is approaching, the day we all look forward to so much, April 15th. It's tax deadline. Are you ready for it? Well, I'm going to have to get ready. I'll tell you what, I've ran into the troubles of the IRS before, and it would have been nice to have somebody that had a direct line to the right agent.

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Reed goes in, unloads the kids. He goes in there. He gets the cake. Well, he puts the cake in between the two car seats. In between the two kids. So look, he gets back. You know, gets out. No problem. You know, everything's going. So now...

They had the cake. They popped the top on the cake, and it looks like Freddy Krueger has just scraped all the eye. It's just fingerprints. Mm.

Dirty fingerprints. The only thing that would draw in two toddlers, that's the only thing that would draw them in at the deepest level was a beautiful cake. Well, here's after the investigation and the question of how did you not wonder why our three-year-old had all this icing everywhere? And look, so sneakily.

That the two-year-old didn't even realize it happened. Innocent. Sneakily. Sneakily. Yeah. Look it up. Look it up. It's a word. It's a great Scrabble word. It's got the K, all seven letters, whatever.

So, attach your seven letters to the S. That's a full way. That's why you got to be careful with Robertsons. You want to challenge it? No, I would never challenge you. I took it as a challenge. So, look, if you get the K on a triple letter, you lose your turn. I lose my turn.

Oh, I know it's the worst. You just lost your turn in a furtive or sly way. Do you want to challenge furtive while we're at it? No, I'm going to yell. I won. Jay's wins. So, yeah, so she had destroyed the cake. So Reed had to go get another cake, like, right before the arrival. Now we have drama. There's...

storms and so then they get there and uh reed i mean uh cole when they walked in though it was the line by by his fiancee now she said i'm so happy i looked around every woman was tears were streaming down their faces i thought it was incredible i thought where are the cameras

I mean, just screaming. When he actually asked her this. No, no. They had already asked. They had their little deal. She just walked in and said, I'm so happy. You know, because it was like all the family. Yeah. And I looked around. I was like, every woman was just pouring tears out. I was just shocked by that. Yeah.

And so then they told the story on the storms are raging. He gets down on one knee and proposes. And for five minutes, the sky is parted. The sun. Oh, boy. Literally. They said this happened.

It sounds like somebody's a J storyteller is what it sounds like. Then we all kind of gave a few words of wisdom, gathered up, and then got to know the new family. New in-laws. Reed had gotten the new cake in time. Oh, so he did get a new cake? Well, he had to go get a new cake. Well, actually, when we were pulling up, he was pulling out. There was a car behind me.

So I was like, hey, you know, I'm not going to hold up traffic. He just rolled his window down just standing there because he was angry that his daughter had destroyed it. And I was like, well, why would you put the cake in between the two? You realize how much like, dad, you sounded when you said that. Why would a man put a cake in between two toddlers?

Did you not know what was going to happen? Exactly. So that's what I did. It was love was in the air. Did you cry, Jace? Did you shed a tear? I mean, I got a little... For Clem? What do you call it? I was a little like, wow, this is a little tingly, I guess. And...

Because I was like, okay. Because I've asked him before. I was like, you know, so where are we at in this thing? Cole's a little bit of a slow mover. He doesn't do anything quickly. And he said, we're good. So I thought, well, I tried. Missy's like, talk to him. Make the move. Let's go. I was like, I talked to him. He said, we're good. So anyway, that was fun. Did Mia cry? They were all crying, Al. They all cried. It was incredible. So it just shows you the...

Now you see why these shows, Zach, are popular with everything leading up to the big proposal. Of course, I don't know how real those are, but this was the real deal. So this would have been a fantastic episode. It was a nice moment. Our lives were so busy, and it was just a nice moment. But you mentioned an interesting thing about, because we talked about marriage and weddings in John. We were in John 2.

The idea of two families coming together and what you gain by that is you don't necessarily think about them. Your kids are in love and they're beginning a life together, but you're also incorporating a whole nother wing of a forever family and folding it into your family. That's a powerful thing. It was more weird for them, their family, because they had watched Doug Donovan. The show, yeah. So I just thought in my mind,

Can you believe these people were watching this show one time? And just if maybe somebody having a thought, what if, you know, our daughter marries one of these people? I mean, you know, it's like horrifying. And now it's a reality. So you're like. You're trying to let them know it's not as scary. It got more awkward than that. So after all the festivities and all that, they actually put on Duck Somebody, put on Duck Dynasty, put three episodes on.

And I thought, I can't believe this worked. I watched three episodes and I thought, how did this catch on? It was kind of shocking to me that...

That worked. People watched it. So that was my take on that. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I just didn't get it. Well, people love it. They do. Zach, did you have anything interesting before we get to our study? Well, I will say this. Zach, by the way, before you tell your story, you just mentioned NFL. You told the story about meeting the HUD secretary. Is it Taylor? Secretary Taylor, I think is his name? Turner. Turner. Scott Turner, yes. Scott Turner. And you never said anything about that he played in the NFL. No.

Oh, he was a baller. Well, I mean, how do you leave that out of your story? I just saw him do an interview, and he was telling me he played at the University of Illinois. He was a wide receiver. He switches his senior year to cornerback and winds up playing for three or four teams in the NFL at cornerback, which is an incredible story. He incorporates that into the idea of change because he's trying to change the attitude about HUD. But, I mean, it was so interesting, and I was like, how did Zach miss this for the podcast? You never said a word about it.

You gotta let me talk. I wanted to tell you that part of it, but I couldn't get a word in edgewise. You lost your turn, Zach. I came up with a word that was so... You would have just done sneakily. You would have got your turn. You gotta let me talk. I mean, but yeah, he wants to come duck hunting. I did tell him this. You told us that. I want to come duck hunting with you guys. I want to eat some soul food, which I had to get him to define soul food.

Because I say, how deep do you want to go on the soul food? We can do soul food. Turnip, greens, you know. Yeah, he's good with that level. What he's not good with is the hog head cheese or anything like that that Granny used to eat. That was too far for him. What in the world is wrong with hog head cheese?

That's what I said. If you were to cut me hog head cheese, would you use that? I mean, that's part of the DNA here. Well, what's funny is my buddy just got back from New Orleans, and he went to a very high-end restaurant down there, and guess what was on the menu? Hog head cheese. It's now made its way up the upper echelon. All the poor people food that we ate growing up is now delicacies at high-end restaurants. It's delicious.

I said, if you come duck hunting, you know, there's a story of a politician, Dick Cheney, going bird hunting and he shot somebody in the face. I have to...

Do you duck hunt? He said, no, I've never been. But he does have a Benelli shotgun. So I said, well, I'll clear it with Jace. We'll get y'all blind. We'll set y'all up about 150 yards from us. You can't do any damage. He said, y'all. I think he's putting me in the. Yeah, you get to go. I'll be on the premise. You get to go with the secretary. Well, here's the thing I do want to say, though, in all seriousness. I want to tell you guys how thankful I am.

how thankful I am that the conversation is elevated from a snake-like poop to someone getting engaged. I feel like our call opens up. Well, that started because Maddie told us that now that's one of our more popular episodes ever. I knew it was just because on my way back to Nashville, we drove, and every outhouse, penthouse, townhouse, henhouse, everywhere I stopped...

That was the number one conversation. I've gotten much, much emails. I was like, boy, y'all been listening to the podcast. So they want me to tell it again. I was like, go watch the podcast. You got to watch the episode. I'm trying to get home. You can't recreate certain things. You just got to listen, which is fantastic. All right, guys. Spring is in the air. It's time to get back outside. And I am transforming my fence into a house.

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FastGrowingTrees.com, code UNASHAMED. Now's the perfect time to plant. Use UNASHAMED to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Lisa and I were on our way home from Baton Rouge. We got here last night about 1130, and we stopped and did a little mini part of a story of how I came to Christ at a Go Tell Ministries campaign. They had one in Denham Springs, which is...

just north of Baton Rouge. And it was great. The thing was packed. And they asked me what to introduce me. I said, well, I'm the oldest Robertson, and I love LSU, and that's about all you need to know in a setting like that. And when they said that, the whole crowd just cheered, you know, because we're 10 miles north of Baton Rouge. So I was fired up. I only spoke for 15 minutes, which is not much for me, but it was fantastic. So I know a lot of people came to Christ last night. So that was really, really good.

Y'all ready to get to John 3? Let's do it. I'm there. All right, so we left off at kind of the tail end of this Nicodemus conversation. I think we're ready to move into the next text. Was there anything else y'all wanted to cover? Well, we never said anything about when he got down and said, this is the verdict. That's in 19. Yeah, which is big. When he says that, that's... Well, I mean, there's like a courtroom...

feel to a lot of this where like you're making the case john's making the case for jesus and he put it in a condemnation salvation context right well and he also said that you know he focused on the positive for god did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world yeah through him that's 17.

I think that's a key thing to remember. And he says that because in 18 he says, whoever does not believe stands condemned already. So the idea is you don't have to condemn the world. The world's already condemned by their sinful behavior. Well, it's just God is not mean. He's not a bully. You know, a lot of people when they picture God, they're like, well, he's up there, you know, ready to just...

Well, it's just when I was a kid, that's what I thought. Yeah, the all-seeing eye is just waiting to catch you and zap you. Well, right. Right. I did want to mention this before we talked about the vertiginous. This phrase that we did back in Chapter 1, and I didn't mention it then, the idea of the one and only or the begotten is what the King James says, son. The Greek word there is monogenes, mono meaning one,

And it means in Greek, it was the eldest. It was the eldest and the only son. So in other words, the eldest son always got a double blessing in the Jewish because he's supposed to take care of the family once the patriarch is gone. He becomes the new patriarch. But he's also the only son. So he's the oldest and the only, which makes him the sole heir.

Of heaven and earth. But what about these people, though? I'm going to have to give you an argument. Because some would say, look, so there's a phrase used in the Old Testament. Zach, feel free to enter this because I'm not sure I know all this. But when it uses the sons of God, like Genesis 6, the sons of God. Right.

I mean, and they use, which they say it's like part of the... Heavenly realm. Well, the heavenly family. Yeah, the divine council. That was a phrase. They read Psalm 82, Psalm 89. So it's like the spiritual family. And one of the verses they use to say, so when is his only son...

Or like maybe there's something unique. Because they use this Hebrews, this is off the top of my head. But when you said that, that popped into my brain because I think a lot of the spiritual warfare people say, wait a minute. Hebrews 11, 17, by faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promise was about to sacrifice his one and only son.

But Abraham actually had other sons. Right. And I have it. It was his only son was Sarah. And remember, they couldn't have kids. It was. Yeah. So I was just bringing that out. I'm not sure what.

How to balance that? Well, I know one thing you can say, and you can use it in the same case with Abraham, is one thing we know is that there was something uniquely different about Jesus for this phrase to describe him. So he was different from any other sons of the heavenly race. Exactly. That's kind of where I was going with it because I think, you know, it's like, well, we believe there's one God. Now he has three persons, but...

It's one God. And you think Father, Son, Holy Spirit as unique. So, Zach, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, that's a the Genesis six passage. I think, yeah, it opens up a whole nother paradigm that I honestly have not grown up thinking about.

until recently, mainly because I've read that Michael Heiser book, Seeing the Unseen Realm. No, Seeing the Unseen Realm. That's two different books. And you're talking about the Sons of God, Sons of Men passage. What is the name of that book? The Unseen Realm. The Unseen Realm, yeah. I haven't read it, but I've heard people talk about it. Yeah, it's kind of weird because there's some parts about it, like I think he's on to something for sure. I mean, obviously he's a lot smarter than I am and well-studied, but some of it I don't know if I would translate correctly,

particularly in Genesis 1, verse 26, when he says, let us make man in our image, in the image of God who created them both male and female. I've always interpreted that to be a passage that's a Trinitarian passage of the Trinity speaking. He says not. He says that's the divine counsel. Yeah, I'd probably disagree with him on that, but I think there is something to the...

spiritual family, because I believe they're made in the image of God with a special function. Yeah. Just like we were, which is, I think is the, one of the main points of the Bible that no one ever talks about that we're, we're made to be imagers of God. We have a job. Image bearers. We have a function. I mean, look, I just give you a crazy illustration. I,

am so frustrated with today's appliances you know i redid my house and i all these appliances i kept having to replace so when it came to the refrigerator remember those podcasts maybe a year ago i mean this thing state-of-the-art industrial refrigerator has the capability of a camera inside of it so you can be at the grocery store and like you know look and see what's in your fridge i mean

Just splurged. Said, I don't want to ever buy another refrigerator. I'll buy the greatest refrigerator on the planet. So we splurged on it because I kept having to replace them. Well, guess what? It's not in my house right now. You know why? Because after a few months, it started going beep, like the most annoying thing.

sound ever and you have to go in and push the alarm button well finally i was like babe call call the repair it's going off for a reason because every time it it would get to 40 degrees if the alarm would go on now there's a reason so this whole boy comes he looks like sigh identical when he walked in i thought hey all right i was gonna say sigh but it wasn't sigh

It was a doppelganger. It was a refrigerator repairman. Can you imagine the size of a refrigerator repairman? And I was like, look, dude, this thing's brand new. Still under warranty. He said, that's the good news. And I said, I don't understand what, it's brand new. And he's like, they want to save the planet.

He said, they're all junk. This was this guy. That's what he done. And he worked on them. Yeah. And I said, well, what should I have bought? He said, the cheapest one you can find. The oldest one you could get. Well, the old ones, you know, or they say destroying the planet. Yeah. But it hit me in that moment. I thought, I have something that's brand new.

and it won't function. It won't do its job. So you see the spiritual application I'm making here. When you're brand new, at some point you realize, I'm to be an imager. I have a function that God prepared for me to do. That's the difference. So, I mean, I think it's important.

So, Jace, you remember we were youngsters in school, and you, in school of preaching, you had read during that period of time, and you were sharing it with me because we were over to school every day. And it had a huge impact on you, and then me, because I didn't even realize that was out there, but it was inspiring. Yeah, it's kind of like you're new to the faith, and all of a sudden you read people from the past, right?

who were willing to give their life rather than deny the reality of who Jesus is. It was inspiring. And it becomes a huge apologetic. And our friends at Voice of the Martyrs, that's what they've been doing for many, many years. And Todd Nettleton, who is the Voice of the Martyrs radio host, has written a new book. It's called When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians.

And so what Todd has done is he's taken this 20 year journey through these restricted nations and he just has written down the stories of the people that he met. And it's very inspiring because you don't think about it, but there's people that are living out that same persecution today in the world. I mean, it's happened every single day. And so he shares those stories.

as a part of his book. Each stop on the journey challenges you to reflect your own walk with Christ along the sometimes difficult path towards a heavenly home. And we don't want you to miss out on an opportunity to read these remarkable stories. And it's free. We can request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org.

Dot org slash unashamed. And that VOM stands for voice of the martyrs. A fantastic organization has been highlighting stories of persecuted Christians for many, many years. So check them out. That's VOM. Dot org slash unashamed. You have used the word of the past as vocation. Yeah. And I like, I like that word too. Cause I think it'll, I think what happens if you don't see what we're talking about here is,

is that it does kind of change the entire narrative, in my opinion, of the whole story. And the way I would say that would be you'll tend to, if you divorce it or kind of separate out the whole story of a cosmic battle of the sons of God and some of those sons of God fell,

And some of those sons of God came into the women and created Nephilim and all these other species and all these other, not I don't want to say subhuman, but not human, fully human. There is like this, the Genesis 11, that whenever God, you know, he has the Tower of Babel and he creates nations for the first time because nations didn't exist until Genesis 11. Well, that was.

a result of man essentially trying to work his way to God, trying to build a tower. God confuses everybody's language.

He creates nations. He pulls a portion of that nation of those nations for himself, Israel. That's Genesis 12. And it's like to me, it's like this really beautiful narrative of scripture that that God is building out. And there's this battle, but there's also this plan of God to bring his people back to Eden. So it's that Edenic vision. I love all that. I think that's like that's the picture of the kingdom. And if you kind of divorce that out, you'll end up reading a lot of the New Testament and

And you'll just see a piece of it. And you'll say, like, you get to, like, the book of Romans and you read everything through the lens of what's called soteriology, meaning salvation. Like, what do I got to do to be saved? What do I got to do? Am I saved? Am I saved? And they become this obsession with being saved. And you almost forget, like, wait, God's calling us into an interactive life with him.

And it's more than just getting saved from going to hell. I mean, the Bible is way more than that. The story is way more than that. So I think it does matter to have this discussion. I think it has a lot of implications on how we read the rest of Scripture. Yeah. And I mean, to go back to our point, I think the difference in the Son of God is all these other things.

sons of God, if you want to use that phrase, because it is translated. It's in there a lot. They were created, and Jesus was the one doing the creating. I mean, you say, well, what about when he became flesh? Well, he became flesh. He's versatile. Exactly. But he is the creator, which is why I think John makes that point when he says,

Through him, John 1, 3, all things were made. Without him, nothing was made that has been made. But I do think there is a heavenly host. There's another phrase that's there. And I think they had a choice just like we do. And they weren't light, light that creates light. I mean, Jesus was that same text in John 1, and he brings it up again here. I like that idea. You brought up the idea of verdict.

I did a sermon a long time ago where I painted a picture of a courtroom and

And it is what I call the no way to lose because Satan is your accuser. He's called that in several different texts. So he's the one trying to accuse you. So here you are at your little table over here on the side, and you're like, oh, man, Satan's accusing me. But your defense attorney, your advocate, is Jesus. That's in 1 John. So all these different pictures of him. He's also, though, your star witness.

because he's a witness that you now are in him. So he's on the stand for you, but you look up at where the judge sits and there's the father is the ultimate judge, but he says he's brought this son to save the world. So he's even your judge. And then you look over at the jury box and there's 12 Jesuses over there. It's like, there's no way you lose in this courtroom of Satan because Jesus is every phase of your representation. Yeah.

And so I just love the idea that the verdict is in. Yeah, it's a really. I heard a guy say at one time, like Jesus is the judge and he's sitting behind the podium or the pulpit. And he's like, how do you plea? And then he gets he literally stands up and he goes and he walks around and sits by the defendant, which would be me. And he says, I plead.

my client pleads not guilty he walks back up to the judge seat by what grounds when it comes back it's like same guy going back and forth it's like man we're in kind of great shape you know that that Jesus is all of it you know and there's several verses I don't have in front of me because yeah but but there are verses that show every step of that if you put it like 17 says he'll be he's going to judge the world right and then there's other verses that say he's he mediates for us and there's other verses that talk about he advocates for us there's

Yeah, I was just making the point that, I mean, when you look at the sons of God and the son of God, I mean, to me, it's like God loves family. He has a celestial family with jobs to do, and he has a human family. Same thing. I mean, we are to image God.

Our creator. But that's why there's a lot of obscure passages that we never read. I was just looking back. I was trying to find this. In 1 Kings 22, you can, this will be, I wouldn't use this as a morning devo, but if you just want to say, huh, there's this weird conversation about these kings trying to consult with prophets to see, you know, if God is in their favor or what to do.

And just to give you a thumbnail of it, I was actually talking about this with my assistant on my events. And she was like, that's in the Bible? I was like, yeah.

And it's 1 Kings 22, and this king, Jehoshaphat, he was like wanting to get a prophecy, but he's, and I'll just pick it up in verse 18. But he says, the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, didn't I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad, which is funny. They're like, let's see what the Lord's prophet, and he's like, I don't want to get him because every time he tells me something, there's nothing good about me.

And then this, I'm going to say that Micaiah continue. This is 19. Therefore, hear the word of the Lord and watch what he says. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven. Here's the heavenly host standing around him on his right and on his left, which revolution uses the same kind of imagery. And the Lord said,

Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there? So the Lord's like,

Wanting to take Ahab out here. But he's like, it's not like God doesn't know what's going on, but he uses this, if you want to use Zach's word, counsel for a conversation of these spirits. And look, one suggested this and another that. So it's like some kind of heavenly conversation, which they have a job to do, we're assuming, with humans and I guess from a distance. But...

So finally, a spirit came forward. Now, this is this vision of the heavenly host that this fellow is describing. Stood before the Lord and said, well, I'll entice him. And by what means, the Lord asked, I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets, he said. Now, you're thinking right here, what?

But watch what he says. You will succeed in enticing him, said the Lord. Go and do it. So the Lord put a lying spirit in the mouths of all those prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you. So basically, the story goes, they go out and say, hey, the Lord said, go down here and you're good. That's what his prophet, but it wasn't true. I mean, there's so many things to...

But just the idea that this story comes up is just because we've never seen the heavenly hosts and, you know, these sons of God. But we're familiar with angels. And I mean, there's a whole spiritual world out there, especially when you get to books like Ephesians that says, you know, our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but the rulers, the powers, the authority, spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

So it is a thing. Yeah. But what is unique about Jesus is he is, in essence, God becoming a human. Well, you know the saying, guys, the only two things in life that are certain are death. You know the other one? Taxes. And taxes. Death and taxes. Well, now there's a third one. There's a third certainty. If you're with Verizon, AT&T,

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marginalize that realm when we think, oh, somebody heard something from a spirit and we're like, no, you didn't. That's your own mind.

The scripture would teach otherwise. There are real powers that are at play that are actually shaping people and whispering to people. Now, we can over-spiritualize things, too. I think that's a danger. C.S. Lewis talked about this, that the devil can trick you into thinking there are no devils or that everything's the devil's fault. And the Bible says pretty clearly that we're also dragged away and enticed by our own evil desires. But

That passage that you mentioned, what it testifies to me is that there's real forces at play here. No doubt. Real things happening that are real entities happening.

And he said, well, I don't like that. It scares me. Well, it should scare you. You know what I mean? Oh, I think you're right. I think we've missed an important part of what Jesus' death and resurrection did because we're so atonement-centered. We're like, it's all about the sins. It's all about the fall of man. But it's also about...

disarming and ultimately defeating all the celestial powers that have made their decision and are opposed to God and are who, you know, a lot of them have been hurled to the earth and are doing mischief. I mean, and I think this theme comes up. I didn't just bring it up out of the blue. When he gets to the end to John 3, and he's talking about this light and darkness, he

And when he was talking about this heavenly versus the earthly, well, who is described as earthly? Well, think about when it says earthly wisdom in James 3, and it says earthly, worldly wisdom. James 3, 15, talking about...

Watch what it says in verse 14. If you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it. Deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come from heaven, but is earthly, unspiritual. And look at that of the devil. Yeah. Right. So, so that's why when you get to passages like Colossians two, and he talks about, we've been given fullness in Christ. And we, he, he talks about,

Christ cutting off the sinful nature. Remember, you know, in verse 12, and he likes it to circumcision, you know, having been raised with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God or the working of God, he raised from the dead. And then it's talking about sins when it says, when you were dead in your sins, God made you alive. He forgave us all our sins. But what's this pivot when he says, uh,

Having canceled the written code with its regulations that was against us, this is Colossians 2.14. He took it away, nailed it to the cross, and then watch this phrase. Having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them by the cross. Well, who's he talking about?

He's talking about all these beings and their powers that have been hurled down to the earth and even the evil one who...

is deemed Lord of the dead, the realm of the dead, which is why you have Hebrews 2.14, which Jesus' work on the cross, remember what it says, destroyed his work, who held all these humans in slavery by their fear of death. Well, the one thing that you see there consistently is there's a link between

to the going zone in the heavenly realm and the going zone in the earthly realm. And they don't know either. That's a big point. Which is really interesting. I think this also gets to the conversation that we started kind of a vocation. Because if you listen to the language in John, I want to read a passage out of John, then I go to Ephesians to make the correlation to our vocation.

But it says in John 3, 19, that this is the judgment. He defines what the judgment is. Here's the judgment. This is interesting. That the judgment is that light has come into the world.

The judgment is that the light has come and it's exposing. And people love the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light so that it may be clearly seen that his works are

have been carried out in God. So there's the language of vocation. But to get even more specific, what Paul says, this is actually the vocation of the church is to live in the light. And listen to the purpose that Paul says that he says, I want you at the church to do this. This is in Ephesians 3, 7. Of this gospel, I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given to me by the working of his power.

To me, though I am very least of all the saints, this grace was given to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ. Here's the language of light. And to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for the ages in God who created all things so that through the church, through the church,

the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the rulers and authority in the heavenly places. So you think about a vocational calling, if you want to elevate the vocational calling of the church, according to Paul here, it's not just that we can get saved and get out of hell free card and go to heaven one day. We actually have a vocation of making known

to the rulers and the authorities and the heavenly places to make known to them the manifold wisdom of God. So they don't know, Al, to your point, but God has revealed it and is rebuilding it progressively to the church who then makes that known to that council, to that other realm. And that's a wild thought. Well, and just to clear that up with what Jason was talking about back in that vision in 1 Kings,

It's not like it kind of get the picture like, oh, well, God doesn't really know what's going to happen. He's like working it out. But he already knew everything because the prediction and prophecy of Ahab's demise had already been told much further back. And the prophecy was the dogs. This is gross, but this is biblical. The dogs will lick up your blood.

Yeah. Uh, out of the chariot. And so the rest of that story that Jason was telling there's, you know, Ahab's riding way behind everybody else in a chariot thinking he's safe, but one guy lets go one arrow and

And that thing goes through the air and just happens to find its way in between his armor sheath. It just so happens. Just so happens. And then look, he slumps over. The chariot just goes back to home base. And guess where home base was? The same place Jezebel fell out the window and the dog's

did their damage to her. So the prediction had already been there. Your evil deeds will find you out. So, you know, God knew, but in the workings of the heavenly host, they were still working it out. yeah. And let me add this one thing to it, to tie this back to what we, where we started in Genesis six and Genesis 11. If you think about what's happening here in Ephesians, uh,

Three, that through the church, the manifold wisdom of God is made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This would be the divine counsel and anyone in that realm that God created. The church is making it. What's he talking about here, though?

He's talking about the Gentiles being included into salvation with the Jews, into the kingdom with the Jews. So it's going all the way back to Genesis chapter 11 when there was the dividing of the nations. Now all the nations are coming back through Christ and through the Spirit. All the people groups are coming back in. So when N.T. Wright talks about this verse, he mentioned the word, the manifold wisdom of God. He said that's

A good way to translate that is the colorful expression, the beauty of diversity in the kingdom. It's all this colorful representation of the kingdom. And so I think it is interesting that our vocation is not simply the atonement of our own personal status.

although it is partly that, it's also that we are participating in the kingdom as a whole, as a people, as a group, as a collection, as a collective. This is happening together. And so we get to participate in something bigger than ourselves. And I think that's so beautiful to think that God has invited us into his story in such a profound way. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. At the end of the day, it goes back about God being relational, which is why he is three-dimensional. When you trace that back and say, okay, God wanted to use other beings, he is relational. He creates them in the celestial world and in the human world, and he uses those relationships to

to help promote his image. That's right. And so, I mean, that's why Jesus came. That's why he's saying this. He didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. And this results in God dwelling with other beings in a loving relationship. And we talk about the eternal life experience. We always relate to each other in resurrected bodies. But one of the benefits is going to be we're going to get to meet all these beings. Oh.

Oh, exactly. That's going to be pretty, I mean, that's going to take up, you know, a lot of our exciting times of eternity is just meeting these other beings. So, all right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.