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I am unashamed. What about you? Maybe that's your problem while you're going blind and you don't feel. We had an interesting break. Boy, Darren, they're in between these two episodes. Zach dropped a word that I was not familiar with. I had to look it up. It's still on my computer screen. It's called entropy. So then I read the definition, which I was more confused than when I started it.
Well, tell them the context of how I said it. I think that'll help. Well, I don't remember what you said. Well, you were stretching. We were talking about vision law. We were talking about age. And I said, the one thing that none of us are going to escape is entropy. Yeah. So you said that, and all of a sudden I thought...
I can't escape something that I don't know what it is. So that's why I couldn't escape because someone would say, you're struggling with entropy. I would say, what'd you call it? Well, it all started because Zach couldn't read the ads because he can't see now. And so Maddie, who's like 21 years old or whatever she is, she's 23 years old.
She's like, just make a bigger font. She has no patience with our old man-isms. And so she's telling Zach, just make your font bigger. Read. And then Zach's stretching during the break in between. I was like, who stretches for a podcast? Well, let's do a test. Yeah, he was actually literally stretching. He was stretching. I'm watching him on camera. I was like, who stretches for a podcast? When you're stretching so that you can sit down for an hour. So.
Zach, how many fingers am I holding up? I can say you got two. I've increased the screen size. So I read the second definition, which I missed one word. It said physics. Why didn't you just say that?
Physics. Physics. It's all physics. It's all physics. Physically. Yeah, over time. We're going downhill. We go down. And we're doing this on purpose because it does kind of lead into what we're going to talk about today. It really does. But I'll read the definition for the people who listen to Jace's Redneck Logic. It is a lack of order or predictability, gradual decline into disorder. So the body...
That's what happens. Yeah. So, uh, another way of saying it is that things tear up over time. Yeah, well, exactly. They, they just, but you know, it's interesting about this, this word entropy. The reason why I use it a lot is probably about 20 years ago when I got into apologetics, uh,
One of the writers I was reading about was using this. It's a scientific fact. I mean, it's a law of the universe. It's actually the second law of thermodynamics, which is about heat and matter and thermo heat. But imagine the universe and every star in the universe is like a campfire. And with any campfire, if you sit around it long enough and you don't add wood to it, what happens to it?
Burns out. It burns out. So that's entropy. What it's trying to do is the campfire is trying to get to the same temperature as everything around it, which is called equilibrium. And so the philosophers looked at this and they said, you know, the past has to have a beginning. Like Genesis 1 has to be the Christian philosophers have
I've said this, that the Genesis one has to be true because the past has to have a beginning. It can't be like this eternal regression of there has to be a beginning to all this because of the second law of thermodynamics. Because given enough time, every fire in the universe will eventually burn out.
But they're clearly not burned out because we still have the sun that gives us heat and a lot of other stars as well, which means that we haven't been here for an infinite amount of time. Because if we had been, there wouldn't be any heat left. And so we actually can look at entropy as a tremendous example and evidence for the existence of the true claims of the Bible because it points to the fact that the universe exists.
began to exist. It hasn't always been here. Do you want me to translate that for you? Yeah, can you translate that for us? No, I'm going to give you the translation for all the simple-minded people out there. Someone started the fire. That's number one. Yeah, that's it. Number two, there are humans who sit around a fire, and then there are humans that go get something to put on the fire. That would be my camp while you're sitting. Well,
before you do some stretching so you can sit around the fire. You're going to bring some duck and deer and something to roast over the fire. Yeah, I got that from Jesus, you know, post-resurrection. It takes all kinds of people, though. We need each other. You know what I mean? I'll watch the fire. I don't know about the first. What was one of the first things Jesus did post-resurrection? He ate.
He started a fire. Started a fire. Oh, okay, yeah. The fire came first. The fire came first. And we've been on fire ever since. You know why he did that? Crickets. Because he could. Because he could. That's always a good answer. He may have just touched it. He may have just touched it and lit it up. We don't know that. Dead men don't start fires, Zach. That's where I'm going with that. They don't do that. They don't eat feasts either.
So, Zach, when you were saying that, it took me back to, you remember the, I think it was for this podcast, but now that I'm sitting here, I'm not sure if it was that or In the Woods with Phil. One of the two kickoffs, you filmed a video of,
Of Dad in the Woods. Was that for In the Woods with Phil? Yeah, that was our first. Yeah, I remember that. Remember that? Yeah, it was like a thing we put out there to draw people's attention. And it was a fire. He started this fire in the woods. It was beautifully done. The guy that was our cinematographer back then worked on the movie that we did, which was called Torchbearer.
Yep, Casey. Yeah, Casey. And it was a beautiful shot of Dad in the woods. It was at night, and this fire is just rolling, you know, and it starts. Remember that, Zach? It started in the woods of the fields. I'm trying to think of what he said. Oh, it was classic Dad.
Well, Zach, we said on the last podcast, we'd say what Zach did when he came here, which one of the things we haven't given an update on my parents lately. And to tell you the truth, it hasn't been good, but.
For my mom, it's been a lot better this past week. Yeah. Because she was really not doing good. She got an infection from a fall, from a cut that had happened earlier. And she was in the hospital for 11 days. Yeah. But she's now, she's still in the hospital, but it's more. Yeah, rehab, physically trying to get her to eat and stuff.
But we were kind of dealing with the fact that maybe this is it. I mean, that's what it seemed like in the moment. It seemed closer, yeah. Yeah, so it was difficult. And my dad, you know, when people say, because that's the number one question I get everywhere I go, and they're like, how's your dad doing?
And now I'm just giving the blunt truth. I say, not good. That's what I said. And so, but it's overwhelming. But Zach visited both our parents. I pulled in. Because you hadn't been down in a minute, huh, Zach? No, it's been a while. I mean, it's been quite a while. Yeah, I pulled in when Zach was coming out. So he kind of stuck his head in the window, you know, because we've had to get him some professional care. And, yeah.
I was like, how'd that go? And Zach just lost it, you know? And I kind of realized in that moment when you're in these battles day by day, you kind of compartmentalize everything just so you can deal with it. I mean, it reminds me in a way of like my daughter, she'd go through those surgeries and I was kind of a basket case the first few times.
But after a while, you're just like, well, I got to do the best I can and be a rock for. And so that's kind of what we're doing, you know, with my dad. And then Zach has the added thing of, you know, he went through this with his mom a few years ago. So it's all, I had this conversation with Gordon, Zach's dad, because it's almost like, uh,
some version of PTSD because you go back there and you think about all the time you had to be the one like we are as the kids having to go through the hardest moments and yet be strong and, you know, try to provide the right care. So it's a double whammy. But we're giving them, we're making them comfortable and, you know, we're doing the best we can. And so I think that's just what you do.
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But yeah, it was, and I think when you're in it like you guys are, you're seeing the fade. I hadn't been around and I hadn't seen him in a few months. So I come in, it's like, whoa. Which I remember when Cy came up to see my mom. Yeah. And he walked in to see her. And of course, you know, he just...
I mean, he was like me with you yesterday, Jason. He just lost it. We hugged each other and cried together. But it's because he had seen her and he had never. So I think you have an image in your mind. I've said this a lot about dementia and Alzheimer's. I think anyone in our audience who's gone through it, this will resonate with them.
that we talk a lot about how it steals the memories of the ones who have the disease but for me it also steals the memory of the one caring for the people who have the disease because you're seeing this slow progression over time and it's just it's hard to watch uh but when you come in it's a little more shocking when you see it you know in real life but um
Yeah, I lost it. It was kind of a tough trip. I didn't anticipate that. I didn't anticipate, you know, either breaking down on you either, Jace. Yeah. Well, it's been tough, but we appreciate the prayers. And look, the bottom line is, I mean, we've been talking about these signs, and even when we went to the story on the last podcast, talking about Hezekiah getting 15 more years. And, you know, at some point, Hezekiah died. I mean, this is...
The hand were dealt, and there's a spark. Zach and I talked about this, which was really powerful. There's a spark of hope in both my parents that at their lowest moments during this process, which my mom's on an upswing now, which is awesome, you still see that spark. It's in there, and it's the Spirit of God. So we're all going to be faced with entropy, right?
Because we're living on a planet where everything decays and dies. And it's not only the Holy Spirit, which is the most important one, but it's also love for each other. And, you know, Zach, you were involved in The Blind, which was a story of where they came from. But, you know, they've been together 60 years now. They haven't been able to be together in proximity for a few weeks. But when they FaceTime each other, which we've been doing that quite frequently because they're in different places now,
The spark that comes in both of their eyes when they see one another is really touching. I mean, it reminds you of the blessing we get on earth to have somebody to carry burdens with and the beauty of marriage and relationship. And to be honest, that's really dad's only consistent North Star is usually mom. What did he tell you, Jace, when you were there about the message to give to Kay? I thought that was funny.
About the Navy? No, no one always said, tell her to call me. Oh, yeah. No, he got a pen out, and he was like, which was really the most intelligent thing he had of the conversation. He's like, hey, now, when you see her, because what we've been doing is we'll cook a meal pretty much every day. Because she's in a hospital setting right now. Yeah, and she just hasn't been eating. And so Missy's like, well, what do you want? What is your...
what will you eat if I cook it? And, and she wanted the meatloaf and mashed potatoes, which is her recipe, which is so we, yeah, we took it to Phil first and he was eight. Just like, you know, he went to town on it and, uh, okay. Might've taken five or six bites, which was five or six more bites than she's been taking. But, uh,
So, but when I was at Phil's, I was like, well, we're going to go see Kay because we're trying to get them back together, but they're both dealing with severe issues. So he said, well, hey, you got a pen out. And he's like, now make sure you tell her to call me. Well, I'm like, well, Phil, you don't have a phone. He said, yep, but let me write it down because I'll forget. I was like, but Phil, you don't have a phone. He's like,
Let me write it down. So I was like, look, how about we just handle it? We'll take care of it. And he finally said, well, why didn't you say so? You know, it's just hard to have a conversation sometimes, you know, because I'm like, write in this number. Because I want you out there knowing you had these moments with Alzheimer's patients. So because he was telling me one the last time I saw him about that he didn't understand why he had trouble remembering stuff. And
I was like, well, Dad, you have a disease and it affects your brain. I'm trying to explain it. And he looked at me and he said, I know it. Yeah. Like, I get it. And so in the moment, it's just that frustration. But, you know, he has a hard time looking at it. Yeah, well, now I'm not sure. Now I don't even know. At this stage, yeah, I don't think he's aware of that. But...
I mean, you just do the best you can. Yeah, it reminds me of that verse in Ecclesiastes where it says that God has put eternity in the hearts of men. And then there's Psalms 90, teach us, Lord, to number our days. I think it says so that we might gain certain wisdom. Yeah.
And I think that it is really important to contemplate your own mortality. I mean, I think you see it when you have loved ones facing stuff. But, Jason, you made this point before. We're going through the Gospel of John. Every one of the people that got healed died.
they eventually didn't get healed. We are part of a bigger story and this side of the second coming. So we emphasize the kingdom is here a lot on this podcast, but we also need to remember that
that it's not fully here. There is going to be a full consummation later. Well, and it was like the Apostle Paul, Zach, I was just doing a sermon Sunday in Kentucky, and the guy that preached it, one of the last verses he read was Paul telling Timothy,
You know, I'm already being poured out like a drink offering. And that really struck me because I've been thinking a lot about mom and dad and praying. And I thought, you know, Paul got to the, he knew, he knew the end was coming. Yeah. And look, you won't do any more than he was doing for the kingdom. I mean, most of the books of the New Testament he wrote. And so he realized it in the moment and said, look, it's poured out. And it hit me in that moment. I thought, you know what? My dad's been pouring it out for 50 years. You're talking about an all-in person. Yeah.
And, you know, wherever we get to in this journey, we realize that at some point we pour it out and then we cross over. I mean, this is going to happen to every one of us. Well, even in the last chapter of the book of John, you know, there's a little tension there about Peter. Jesus starts talking about his death, you know, and he's like...
And then he's looking at John, like assuming, oh, how come he's not going to die? And remember, Jesus said, if I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? Follow me. So I think we're all about looking at things that happen on the earth and realize God is still reigning over us.
By giving us the Spirit as a deposit, you know, guaranteeing our inheritance. And even through their struggle, my dad has the Holy Spirit of God. My mom has the Holy Spirit of God. I mean, death has become a glitch that was a snap of the fingers, you know. But this is part...
of the journey and part of the life. I mean, God introduced this new creation to us that we have the spirit. And that's why I said, you can see people that are doing this on a daily basis with my parents. Oh, it's there. You see the spark, you see the spirit. So when you know it, you know, he had a little nightstand when I walked in. Yeah. I mean, you guys are there a lot more than I am, but he had three things on the nightstand that was interesting. And this sums up kind of his life.
The biggest item on the stand was the Bible. The Bible, yeah. The Bible. The second biggest was a book about duck species, which I thought was funny. Well, somebody sent that. Some listener sent that to give to my dad, and I'm grateful because he really likes that.
It was like written in when he was a, it was like 1970, I think. Yeah, it was like 40 years ago. It was because in his mind, he kind of went through a stage there where it was like 1970. So, yeah. And then what's the other thing? The one that I should have suspected, but it was kind of the one that kind of hit me was, it was a glass of tea, a fun sweet tea. He's got all the essentials. He's got what he needs. Well, I came in there a couple of days ago and said,
Just letting you know what today is, whatever. I read the date off my phone, you know, and he was like, 2025. Are you kidding me? I was like, yeah, it's 2025. I was like, and so I did his speech that we've heard a thousand times. I said, look, it's 2025 years since Jesus was here on the earth.
And he was like, hold it, hold it. And so he started laughing. I said, what are you looking for, Phil? And he just, he wouldn't say, cause he couldn't think of the name of what he was looking for, which turned out to be a pen. And, uh, he said, I need to write this down. He said, I told you that's good material. So I started waiting. Well, he kept writing and writing. I never looked at what he wrote, but, uh, I was scared to look, but, uh,
I just thought, you know, he's forgotten. He thought this is awesome. And I'm like, Phil, you've said this a thousand times. This was your stump speech. And so then I just thought, I'm going to keep going with this. I was like, you know what time it is in China? And I said that, yeah, the same date. And he's like, hang on, hang on. What I love about that is dad recognized a good sermon when he hears one.
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You literally can tell any good news every day, and they act like it's the first time they ever heard it. It's almost new every day. I think it's more a perspective. Kind of like that verse, is it Jeremiah, that talks over, the May's Lamentations says that new mercies are born every morning. Yeah. And that's a good way of looking at life, too. But we're still praying, and like you say, hey, we're not...
underestimating the power of God. He can do what he wants to. And I'm really grateful that I think he's healed my mom in a way because it just was looking really grim. And that's why we haven't been talking about it because I thought,
This could go either way here, but she's really bouncing back and seems to be doing better. Yeah, and I know some of you out there have struggled because you've sent me notes telling me that, you know, why aren't you speaking more life into them? Jay's talked about Hezekiah on the last one, the 15 more years. You understand when heaven comes to earth and you recognize in the spirit of God lives in you, we already understand the grasp of eternity.
And 78 years seemed like a long time till it didn't. Yeah. Yeah.
You know what I'm saying? It's just like for me, 60 years seemed like an old man until I turned 60. Well, and people are commenting from a perspective. They don't know the context. I get it. I understand. And I'm not angry about it because I'm like, we've given them the greatest care that they have teams of medical professionals and teams of people who are praying and we're reading scripture and we're doing all the things that I think
or the right way to do it. And, you know, as in my dad's case, I mean, he exercises, he eats, he's being checked out on a daily basis, you know, and just there's no improvement. I mean, this has gone on for months. And so, well, what do you do? You know, you just do what
whatever hand you're in. Well, and look, I've quoted that many, many times. He said it over and over, and I've told him this now in this new era we're in. The resurrection looms large. How many times has he said that on this podcast? So we understand the crossover in eternity. So just believe us in saying that we understand eternity and the value of it. And we're already living in it now. We understand it. Yeah, and where we're at in the text, I mean, we just did a whole podcast about
You know, look at where the signs are pointing. I mean, yes, Jesus was given a glimpse of...
The kingdom, his kingdom, which is there's a new creation that is being formed. And he's introducing that. He's showing what it means to be in the presence of the king. Look, he's healing people. He's doing miracles. That's all pointing to him being from the son of God. But what he plans on doing for each individual on the cross and the resurrection and ultimately pouring out his spirit and being seated at the right hand of God as the head of the church is,
I mean, this is what is the game changer. Those signs are pointing to who he is, and time no longer matters after that. We're going to live eternally is my point. Eternal life keeps coming up. And this understanding, you mentioned it in the last podcast, of the Word becoming flesh. That really becomes the key. And I think that's the point John's trying to make because he's already said, look,
He goes back to Galilee, and at first, because they've seen good things, they're like, oh, yeah, we love this guy. He's a hometown hero. Until he starts into who he really is. Yeah. And then it's like, wait a minute. And that's when he got into about not being accepted. Well, that's my point. Look, when you read this last miracle that we left off, he healed this royal official's son, and he just said it.
which I think that's why the disciples had a misrepresentation of what Jesus was going to bring. Because you've got to think about it. He changed water to wine, and now all of a sudden he's able to say something. Well, think if you were looking for a king that was going to take on other kingdoms in a warlike fashion. Well, if you had Jesus on your side, you're like, they can't starve us out. I mean, this dude can...
Just get you something to drink out of thin air. And can speed. Basically. And can literally bring food from little into enough to feed thousands. Well, that's going to happen in John 6. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, when you put all those pieces, it's like this is the ultimate warrior. Yeah. Because if somebody gets stabbed on the battlefield, he can just say, be healed. Yeah. And then he's healed. I mean, in their mind, I think that's what they're thinking. But what it's really pointing to is if Jesus is who he is,
Well, death, our view of death changes here. Because it's like, if he has that kind of power, which is, this is where we're going in the signs. When he gets to the seventh sign-
He raises a man from the dead. His last one was the resurrection. Yeah, I'll just give you a chance. What a great point there. And that's why the argument that Paul makes, you're looking for the signs. He said the Jews look for the signs and the Greeks demand wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, meaning we preach a Christ who died. Why would we preach that?
Because he didn't stay dead. I mean, that's the big thing that's happening here in Scripture and Christianity gives us. It's not just that we don't avoid death as a Christian. You conquer death. And that's a big difference. Now we're talking. And that's what our third time is going to be about in John 5. Because it really becomes not so much about the healing, but more about he did it on the Sabbath. Right.
And so now he's going to, this third sign is going to be that this new Sabbath is the fulfillment of the original picture of the Sabbath, which goes all the way back to creation. John didn't do this by accident. What did he do when he introduced Jesus? He's like, in the beginning. Well, you remember the story of creation and then God rested. And then they, as God's chosen nation,
observe the Sabbath. And it was like a day of rest and fulfillment and celebration. And so he's going to make that the sign that there's a new Sabbath that he's introducing, which a lot of people have missed. Yeah. So you may read this. Yeah. John five. And remember, this is coming off of the, I believe Jason's right on the money. Cause we've talked about the temple. Yeah.
which if you look at it and you see this idea of the ultimate Jewish establishment, it's that. And now we're fixing to go into another sacred thing, and that's the Sabbath. So I think he's showing his authority, what he's conquering there. And this sign that the Sabbath is pointing to, what Jesus gives you as far as the new Sabbath, I mean, it is a game changer. It's good. Now look, I'm not going to read the whole chapter, but what happens is this story triples.
triggered resistance and Jesus basically gives a sermon and then he gives another sermon based on this. So we're probably, we'll see through 18. Yeah. We're not going to be able to cover all this, but I think it would be good for you to read the whole chapter. Yeah. And get a feel for this. It's going to spark a lot of conversation from Jesus. This is one place where you can't just read the first paragraph because he actually has little nuggets there.
that he's going to get into based on what just happened. But we'll just introduce it today. So John 5, third sign, here we go. Sometime later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish festivals, which is a key point because they all gathered up, meaning there were hundreds of people, if not thousands. Probably thousands.
Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which is Aramaic. In Aramaic, it's called Bethesda. Bethesda. I have a hard time saying that. Well, there's the Bethsaida in here, too. That throws you off. Okay, yeah. Bethesda. Bethesda, and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. Here a great number of disabled people used to lie, the blind, the lame, the paralyzed,
One who was there had been an invalid for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in the condition for a long time, he asked him, this is our fourth question. I did this on the last podcast. We're making, what are we making? A collage of questions in Book of John? Because I already got one sermon. What do you seek?
Will you give me a drink? Why do you involve me? Or why do you involve me? Will you give me a drink, and do you want to get well? Do you want to get well? It's pretty good. That's a good sermon. Verse 7, Sir, the invalid replied, I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I'm trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me.
And you sense a little self-pity there. But understandably, the man has been crippled for 38 years, an invalid. Which, by the way, that's longer than the lifetime expectancy of this era. I'm fixed to make a point about that. So just, okay. So where do I leave off? Verse 8. So verse 8. Then Jesus said to him, get up.
pick up your mat and walk. At once the man was cured. He picked up his mat and walked.
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Again, that's puretalk.com slash unashamed to start saving today. Pure Talk, wireless by Americans for Americans. That's basically it. It was like quick. Nothing about faith. It's like healing gone. Bam. So then watch what happens. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath.
So you know he made a point to do this because, look, this guy's been laying here for 38 years. What's one more day? So it wasn't like Jesus couldn't have waited. He knew because there was a sign here that he's pointing to about the kingdom. Here's what the kingdom is going to look like, the new creation. And so the Jewish leader said to the man who had been healed, it is the Sabbath. The law forbids you to carry your mat.
And so I looked up a little list. There was all kinds of things. There's 39 different things in one list I looked at. Yeah. But he replied, the man who made me well said to me, pick up your mat and walk. So they asked him, well, who is this fellow? Which you got to remember, this is the theme of John. Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk? The man who was healed had no idea who it was.
For Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there. I was like, he just got healed, bam. Later, Jesus found him, which I love this part of the story, at the temple and said to him, because it's probably the first time
He had been in the temple in 38 years. Yeah. Well, you know it was because he would have never been allowed in. See? You are well again. Now watch this statement. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you. The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him well. So now he knew. So because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him in his defense against
Jesus said to them, my father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working. For this reason, they tried all the more to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God. So there's a lot of unpack there because their impression was like, God's still resting. Remember the Sabbath day? He made everything and he's...
We thought that was it. And then all of a sudden, a guy, a human being, they're looking at says, oh, no, we're working. He's my father. You did this on the Sabbath. So there's a lot of rabbit holes to go down here. Well, one of the things I wanted to mention was this is something new I learned. And, you know, there's a lot of.
opinion out in the scholarly world, but one of the pictures I saw in one of the books that I've been reading alongside of this was there's a pool that looks a lot like this because of the description, the colonnades and everything there. And it's kind of north of the temple, but it's close. It's like within the shadow of the temple. So it would have been close to the temple if this is the place it was. And they're not 100% sure.
I think they're pretty sure. Well, and I think it is for sure. There's differing opinion, but I think they're right. It's called the Asclepion, which is after Asclepius, who is a Greek god of medicine.
And so the idea was, you probably read the same stuff, that this was a lot of pagans would gather here. Exactly. Which is why, yeah, I read the same stuff, which is why they think Jesus picked this place. That's what I thought. Because he's like picking a fight with the, because you got to remember, in our culture now, I don't know when this started happening. Zach may know. Everything about Jesus is,
became about just him doing away with our sin. But if you read the Bible, there's a lot more to it than just that. I mean, he's taking on the evil powers. Think Ephesians. There's a cosmic battle. There's a meta battle. No doubt. I totally agree. I think that happened. There's a lot of discussion here. Well, to go back to the Ten Commandments, you'll have no other God before me. Well, how many...
Times has that been violated. You know, our whole culture is built on whole God characters. Exactly. He does save us from our sins personally, but he's also like we're being part. We're being invited into part of a cosmic battle. We're being invited into something much bigger than just our individual selves. Think about that Ephesians three passage.
when it says that through the church, the colorful or the manifold wisdom of God has been known to the, I think it says the principalities and the rulers in the heavenly realms. Well, exactly. We're doing more than just...
It's not that we don't, we are saved from our sin by Jesus, but we're also saved to something, and there's a bigger thing going on here. So the point, N.T. Wright made this point, which I thought was really rich, that Jesus would swoop into this place that was rife with pagans. No good Jew would ever go here. But obviously there were some Jews there, like this guy, who's been there for 38 years, and he swoops in, and he heals this guy, and then the guy goes back to the temple eventually. That's where Jesus runs into him.
And the idea is that N.T. Wright makes the point is John continues this idea of the kingdom expansion and the idea of God came here for a reason. It was beyond just the Jewish people, even though this guy was a Jew and this would spark the whole thing about the Sabbath and everything was going to happen as a result of it. But I love that picture. I had never thought about that before. This is just like the Samaritan woman. This is another idea that Jesus came here with a global idea that
that all people could find salvation. Yeah, it's kind of like what we talked about before on some podcasts, where when Peter famously said, when Jesus said, who do you say I am? He said, you're the Christ, the Son of the living God. But they were at a place where basically the equivalent of satanic worship was going on, and on this rock. And so some of these scholars, they're like,
saying the rock was right here where all this demonology was taught. And so why is he doing that? Well, the same thing. And the transfiguration also, it was supposedly the land, the realm of the dead at the foot of the mountain where all these philosophies were coming up. And I think it was Jesus saying, I'm...
picking a fight, whatever you want to say, I'm here to take you on. But meanwhile, not realizing and not giving away the fact that his death would actually be their demise because that was their go-to.
was if there's a threat, you just kill them. That's why this is the realm of the dead. And I think, is this the first time we've seen that used where they're starting to say, this guy needs to, something needs to be done about him? Well, right. And you just see right here, they're threatening to kill him. Right. Because that's what you do. And these were supposedly religious people. And I thought N.T. Wright in his commentary made another good point about
When the garden, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, which, so here you have this place where God and humans are living together. Yep. And when they're kicked out, well, death, think Romans 5, came to all men now because you've lost access to this tree of life and
were estranged, which is really why the evil one became the Lord of the dead. Right. Which makes passages make more sense where it says he was the murderer from the beginning, and when Jesus came, he came to destroy him who had the power of death, that is the devil. That's Hebrews 2. But I'd never thought about the symbolism. So it says God put a cherubim and a flaming sword together
to protect the entrance back into the garden. Well, he made a, you know, and look, I don't, it's the first time I had really thought about that. And he was like, only death, you know, Jesus's death could break that down. And he made the illustration about when Jesus died, the curtain was ripped in two because it was symbolic of the chair of a man, the flaming sword, I guess, of death. I'm preaching on that in two weeks. I was like, ooh.
That's good. This is good. Because that curtain, what did it have sewn into it? It had that curtain, the veil that was torn. It had the shirbims sewn in. Yeah, that's what he put. And think about this, that behind that curtain in the temple was a place called the Holy of Holies. That's the whole point of the book of Hebrews, by the way.
The only way you're getting in there is through the high priest, and he has to make the sacrifice for the people's sins once a year. And then first he has to atone for himself. And there's this whole picture that the Hebrew writer's painting. It's like, this is not.
a great system. You know what I mean? Like, is it going to work, man? What if we had a better system with a better priesthood where the priest didn't even have to atone for his own sins. He was perfect. And he could, that didn't atone for our sins. Oh, by the way, then he also became the atonement for our sins. Oh, and also he is the temple and you're seeing the picture played out here. And I think that you see this in this text too, because,
When you think about the Sabbath, in Mark, Luke, I think in Matthew, they all have another event where Jesus addresses the Sabbath. Yeah, it's Matthew 12 and Mark 2. Yeah, think about what he says in Mark 2. He says that the problem is you guys didn't understand that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. You missed it. And the other part you missed is that Jesus, me speaking as Jesus, I'm not a man.
I'm Lord of the Sabbath. Oh, you missed those two big things, which is the whole thing we talked about in the last podcast.
So what does that do anything about the signs? And you brought up Hezekiah. What is all you don't folk? If you if you end up just worshiping the signs, then you worship the Sabbath and you don't understand what the Sabbath was for because you don't understand who's the head of the Sabbath. You don't don't worship the signs. Worship the sign giver, the one who has authority over the signs. And then you'll be able to see the sign in its context that these are actually made for our benefit.
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And you could say the same, Zach, you could say the same thing. I would argue the same thing about all of the law, especially the Ten Commandments. Each of those were made for man. I mean, why do we not murder one another? It's for the good of man. Why do we not covet my neighbor's wife? Because it's the good of man. Why should we never put ourselves up as gods? Because we're terrible gods. It's such a good point. So if you put your trust in law, it's the same problem by tradition.
putting your trust in what you were talking about. That's legalism, right? So what is the definition of legalism? One definition we could use would be to take the things of God, the commandments of God, and twist, turn them into something that God does for Him instead of something that God does for us. We've got to earn it somehow through keeping these. It's what they told me early on with my diet. Don't focus on what you can't eat.
Focus on what you can eat. It's the best thing they ever told me about it. Nobody's ever told me that about a diet. And I thought, they're right. I'm always saying about what I can't eat instead of saying, look, I can eat all this. You know, it's the same idea. Well, it reminds me of when Jesus said, you know, come to me, all you who are labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest because that's what the symbol was about. But think about Hebrews 4.
you know, when he talks about a Sabbath rest for God's people and he did the same thing we did, even in the context of John five, like verse four says for somewhere, he has spoken about the Sabbath day and these words. And on the seventh day, God rested from all his work. Uh, and so then when you get to like verse eight, it says for, if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, uh,
Then a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for anyone who enters God's rest also rest from his own work, just as God did from us, from his. Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest so that no one will fall, you know, by following their example of disobedience. But then it gets into the word of God is living and active. And now you're going back to this living water, right?
Because the Greek word for living in that living water was like running water. And here in this pool, you know, I looked it up and these historians say that they basically had one pool that was going into another pool and
And it was creating current and bubbles. And so then this Greek god, they were like, oh, no, it's the angel putting bubbles in the water. And so it had this mystique about that. Which, by the way, if you fast forward thousands of years, the reason people back 100 years ago went to Hot Springs, Arkansas, and all these other places where there are hot springs is because there was a medicinal value. It's like, ooh, we got –
living water is bubbling. It's warm, you know? And that, I think that's why Jesus sought out that one guy 38 years. I mean, you don't, do you really, I looked it up. Look, 38 years ago,
I was a senior in high school. Good. Look, I was dating. You talk about entropy. I'm telling you, son, right there. That's it. 38 years ago, I became a dad for the first time. Wow. 38 years ago. You know what I found fascinating? I look back and it's like, one of the major events in 1987 –
I mean, we're talking about Ronald Reagan and ending the Cold War. We're going back to that. You know what the number one song that year was?
Madonna. Walked like an Egyptian. And look, so I got to look and I'm like, Egypt? I mean, there was a spiritual component to it. There was a little dance with the hands. Oh, it was a thing. You know, it was for women from England or whatever. Yeah, who sang that? The Bengals.
The Bangles, yeah. The Bangles. So look, you know what I found fascinating about that? When I looked up, I was like, how did they write that song? Because I'm like, they might have been believers or something. So the guy who wrote the song was on a ferry ride somewhere over in Europe. And the waves came up, and he saw how everybody was, because they were trying to keep their balance. And it reminded him of the...
the ancient Egyptian portraits on the walls that they had written with their arms out. And he's like, these people are walking like Egyptians because the boat's rocking.
I've been there on a cruise ship. I never put that together. Put it together. You never crab walked on a cruise ship. Hold on. Hold on. Is this, did you make this up or is this like a real? I read it on the internet, which by the way, in 1987 was the big, it went from a thousand interactions on the internet to like 30,000. It was like, this thing's actually taken off.
Well, let me just say something to our audience here. I think this is important. If you don't think we study for this podcast, the fact that he went that deep. I mean, he thought 1980. I mean, you did your work. You did your research. Well, I was a senior in high school. I was looking at the movies. Like the number one movie was Three Men and a Baby. Oh, wow. Steve Guttenberg. Yeah. And it was like, I mean, the other movies were like Fatal Attraction. You know, that's when everybody was like.
Oh, man. Girlfriend. I better get right with my wife here. Girlfriend or mistress from hell. I don't have a lot of memories from the late 80s. I do have a, when you say 1985. You were just a young lad. I was a kid. I was a little kid, but I do remember something from 1985. Every time I hear 1985, something pops in my head.
What do you think it is? The most significant event in my mind. See, I was a sophomore in high school. It was a transitional year for me. I just got married. I had just come to the Lord. So I was just trying to survive. What was it? The Bears.
Oh, the Bears. Well, let me give you this. Do you remember how far away this was? Icky Woods, the Icky Shuffle, the 1985 Refrigerator Perry. Yeah. The quarterback was Jim McMahon. They were like a big, it was a big thing, the 85 Bears. Which is where the conspiracy started that
Football was all about selling you food, which is now a modern-day commercial. Yeah, Uber Eats. They're like the refrigerator. It's all about people selling snacks. What are you eating, Jerry? Rice. Ooh, look, Jerry's eating rice. It's my favorite commercial right now. It's so good. Look, my wife doesn't get that commercial. She's like, why do you think that's funny? It's so good. I said, it's hilarious, man.
But what I was also going to say, do you realize how long ago that was? Do you know who won the Super Bowl in 1987? Who? The New York Giants. Oh, gosh. Who was the quarterback? Phil Simms. But I'm just saying, look, I think we read these lines and you take for granted –
This guy, I mean, we talked about my parents, which has been an incredible decline just in a year or so. This guy's been like this for 38 years, which is why, I mean, you start going back. That's, in their day, that's two-thirds of your life. Yeah, if not more. Three-quarters, maybe. Yeah, three-quarters. Yeah. And Jesus asked that question, do you want to get well? Look, you'd think, well, everybody, that was a very...
That was a very good question. I mean, only the creator of the universe could come up with it. That's good. And he's like, sure. And what I found fascinating, because I know we're out of time, because people brought this up. The scholars argue about why he said stop sinning or something may happen.
worse may happen to you because God does have the confrontation. Jesus has that confrontation about your life. And they're most of them think that they were going into this argument of whether they thought, Oh, you must've lived a sinful life or had done something to deserve his 38 years. That's what I read that too, which we know from John nine. That's not true. Call me the low hanging fruit guy. But I think, I don't think he was taking his new life from the creator of the universe in flesh and
the right way. I think it's what he was, how he was responding to it. It was becoming about him. I love the idea that Jesus doesn't forget to remind us he's not going to leave us like he found us. Well, right. And my last point I want to say is because I think the fact that he didn't know who the guy was when they said, who healed? He's like, I don't know. I'm good. I think that was a problem. Yeah.
If you have an encounter with Jesus, you need to remember that. Your first question is, should have been for me, is who are you? Yeah, you should have said, tell me more about who you are. All right, we're out of time. Well, man, what a great place to pick up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.
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