Ep 1068 | Jase Calls Out Zach for the Ultimate Podcast Betrayal & Wrapping Your Head Around the Trinity
58:46 Share

The Ego Power Plus Savings Event is on at Lowe's. Right now, get a free select Ego 56-volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer, blower, or mower kit. That's a $299 value. Plus, shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power. Only at Lowe's. We help. You save. Offer valid through 416. Selection varies by location. While supplies last.

Hi, this is Javon, your Blinds.com design consultant. Oh, wow. A real person. Yep. I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to... Well, I've got a complicated project. No problem. I can even help schedule a professional measure and install. We can also send you samples fast and free. Hmm, I just might have to do more. Whatever you need. So the first room we're looking at is for... Shop Blinds.com now and save up to 45% site-wide. Blinds.com. Rules and restrictions may apply. A bet.

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I guess, Zach, we finally got to give you your due. Florida's in the Final Four, so congratulations. We've been ragging you about basketball and all that, but they've made it to the Final Four. You deserve congratulations. They made it, and I'll be attending. Just bought me tickets flying to San Antonio before I fly into Monroe. I'll be in Monroe tomorrow.

Next week. Really? So you're going to be coming from the Final Four into the studio. Yep. Layla is in LO Worship. They're having an event at the Hub. So we're going to come in for that. Jill, I think, is going to join us on the podcast. So we'll see what happens there. So, yeah, I'll be in town. All of this is news to me. I have heard none of this. I didn't even know they were still playing basketball. Yeah.

What rock have you been under? This has been an exciting... I quit watching basketball seven years ago and never returned. As an LSU fan, I think that was a good move on your part. Well, that may be what happened. You stick with baseball. Stick with baseball. You'll be good. You'll have something to cheer for. We're definitely cheering for baseball. I felt like a little kid this weekend because I don't know when this will be released, but

I spent the weekend watching deep into the night LSU baseball because of various rain delays. But it was harder at my age now than it once was. To stay up late? Well, I mean, I think the Sunday, they played Thursday, Friday, Saturday. The Saturday game concluded at, I want to say. Like 2 in the morning. 2.30 maybe? Yeah, it was after 2 a.m. Did you stay up that late? Oh, and I watched.

Is that a question? Yes, I'd say that. Yeah, I'm not doing that. Oh, I, you know, I'm in. But it was painful to watch. But we won. I mean, we swept the series, but it just, it was painful because the first two games, which the one before, the night before, I mean, I pop, I'm popping popcorn at midnight.

Watching it. And the first one, I think it went off at 1 on Friday night. Yeah. So back to back. I mean, it's LSU baseball at midnight. I was giving Missy updates, but she didn't care until she went to bed.

And so, yeah, it was just me, myself, and I and LSU baseball at 2 o'clock in the morning. I mean, that's fine. I'm kind of conditioned because I watch Dodger games, and they don't start until 9 o'clock at night. So I'm usually a late night. But you're not popping any popcorn, Al. No popcorn. Oh, I do the whole thing. But you pay for it the next day. You pay for it. And I figured out I wore my spring colors today.

However, I thought my hat matched my shirt because I got dressed in the dark. And then I got here. Not quite, Jay. Yeah. You got an Easter vibe going. I mean, it's kind of like what do they call it, pastels? Yeah, you got the tint going. Yeah, you got it going. So I figured out, since y'all are talking about sports, I figured out the problem with golf. Because I had not touched a club in eight months. I hadn't touched one. So I went and played Friday.

And I wasn't planning on playing. I was going to hit some balls, and this guy was like, hey, you want to play with us? This guy's won the club championship like eight times. I was like, sure. And so I go out there, and I think when you play with people that are better, you're going to play a little better. But I haven't swung a club in months. And Al, even though they all beat me because they shot around par,

I broke 80. I had three birdies. I shot 78. And I thought, you know what? Practice is overrated. This game is overrated. I took months off and come out here and act like I belong. So I figured out the problem. So then I go back-to-back all-nighters watching LSU baseball. Then we –

Yesterday, we went to WFR, and I had quite the story that happened there. And so I had decided to play after church. Well, we got tied up at the building. And so I come in there on two wheels.

And I think I shot 95. Yeah, it's easy to say, what about that next round? That's the problem. It was like I'd never played before. So I've concluded that golf is not about swinging and all that. It's about expectations. Yeah.

I'm serious. Expectation, I've said it before, premeditated resentments. That's right. And Zach, you've been quoted a lot. I know those people are saying that now. They love that quote. Did you come up with that or did you read that? I'd love to say that I did, but I didn't. What does that mean again? Preemptive resentments? What did you say? Premeditated. Expectations are premeditated resentments. Okay.

So you have an expectation. What you're saying is, like, if this is not met, then I've premeditated that I'm going to have resentment toward you. I think that's James 4.1. It might be. Isn't it? It might be. What causes fights among you and quarrels? Zach, we need some therapy on this.

That's pretty good. If you take that and turn it in, let's see the scriptures here. All right. What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? Here we go. You want something, but don't get it.

That's pretty good. That was off the top of my head, but I do have the Holy Spirit. Playing the role of Phil today will be Jace with a finding a scripture reference to conversation. That is good. I read one of the comments and somebody said, after y'all were talking for 15 minutes, I just kept longing for Phil to say, hey, let's turn to John chapter 4. So Jace, you preemptively struck there. The person that I heard say that initially was Mack Owen.

And who's been on the podcast. Yeah, I made it. Who is works for Celebrate Recovery. And I think he heard it from a therapist, a marriage and family therapist. I think that's how it came down to the podcast.

to the common folk, but it's a pretty good line. I've had several listeners of the podcast that I talk to fairly regularly that have quoted it since you said it, so it definitely resonated. And it is a good one. And now you can have a scripture link, thanks to James 4. So keep your expectations low. Well, I'll try to simplify what Zach says.

Yeah. Because I'm not going to get up on the number one tee box and say, boys, I'm working on my premeditated resentments. Mm-hmm. But when you shoot 95, you're like, you probably walked out of there, you felt bad. Well, you missed the pause because if I said that on the tee box, it would be... Mm-hmm.

It'd be big crickets. Well, and that's the problem. His expectations were high because he was coming off a 78 because that's the thing about golf. You expect to do better next time. So then they said, when are you going to play next week? I said, nah, don't call me. I'll call you. Call me later. I realize, what am I doing here? But you brought up Celebrate Recovery. So to go back to what happened yesterday. So I met a guy.

Long story. It's a long story. But a guy that I had met playing cards one night, he said, look, I got a guy that works for me. I want you to baptize him. I was like, yeah, okay. And I was like, well, where, you know, what's the story? And he said, well, I don't know, but he's in the Celebrate Recovery program up at Charles Church. I was like, oh. I said, well, just tell Rucker, and he'll line it up. So I forgot all about it.

So then yesterday morning, I get there, and I hook up with Rucker, and it's like, well, I think he had forgot about it too, you know? Yeah. So I go over to the—do they still—what do they call the class out before the church? Unashamed? Yeah. You're talking about just Bible class? Yeah. Oh, the Unashamed Bible Study. Yeah. The Unashamed Bible Study, yeah. And old Jersey Joe was doing that yesterday. Well, yeah.

I walked in there, and I'm looking around, but they had just ended because they do that an hour before the worship starts at church. The regular meet, right. So look, now y'all are going to think I'm making this up, but I'm not making up actual events here. So one guy comes, and he's kind of getting in my personal space, so I said,

What's going on? He's like, not much. I said, well, I'm looking for a guy. And he said, who are you looking for? I said, I'm looking for Rucker. And he said, well, I know Rucker. I was like, well, he's supposed to have a guy lined up to be baptized, so I figured he might have sent him here. He said, well, I'm that guy. I thought, there's a lot of people in there, you know. One of the odds that I just walked in here

looking for Rucker to find the guy and here's the guy I said well are you ready and he said well I think so I said well then we need to go talk so uh we found a little stairwell you know where I've been going now right where you go out from the right that's been my place of bible study because I don't have an office there I go to the stairwell so everybody loves trees how can you not

And we have a company that has figured out the biggest problem when it comes to trees. They grow slow.

And so I've never actually wanted to hug a tree, but if you could figure out a way to get it to grow faster, I might consider it. Well, you know what? That's a good point, Jace, because I'm trying to build a border wall. The problem is I can't build it fast enough. So I've ordered the Leland Cypress trees to plant along the border of my yard, and I ordered them from frascardandtrees.com.

It's the biggest online nursery in the U.S. with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers.

I'm one of those customers. Fast Growing Trees offers a wide variety of plants, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, and shrubs, all tailored to your climate and your space with an easy online ordering process and quick delivery straight to your door. Plus, with their Alive and Thrive Guarantee and expert support, your plants will arrive healthy and you'll receive guidance on choosing the right plants and learn how to properly care for them. So big yard, small yard,

Doesn't matter. Bass Growing Trees has over 6,000 plants to fit any space from indoor plants to fruit trees to full-size privacy trees and more. Whether you're looking to add privacy, shade, natural beauty, or whatever to your yard, you can talk to a plant expert about your soil type, landscape design, how to take care of your plants, and everything else you need. No green thumb required. This spring, they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals. And listeners to our show get...

15% off their first purchase when using the code UNASHAMED at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at FastGrowingTrees.com using the code UNASHAMED at checkout. FastGrowingTrees.com code UNASHAMED. Now's the perfect time to plant. Use code UNASHAMED to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. You know what we call them, Jay? Stairwell studies. Yeah, that's what it was. It was a stairwell study. And...

I'm going through, you know, talking about who Jesus is. I think that was my first question. I said, who is Jesus to you? And he's like, well, he gave kind of a vague answer, you know. And I asked him a few more questions after that. I said, what do you, I mean, what's your, are you familiar with these terms? Have you had a church experience? And he's like, well, I mean, I've been in Celebrate Recovery. I have an awareness of God. And he said, I love this church. It's transparent.

And he said, but I really don't know what the Bible's all about. I was like, what do you think it's about? And it was basically kind of the same thing that you would hear. He didn't say it's a rule book, but it was kind of like, well, it's just a guide to living. And that's what he said about Jesus. He's an example that we should follow, you know. So I launched off from there. You know, Jesus is a person, but when we—and this Bible is about a person, right?

And so when I said the line or read the verse, John 1, 14, you know, God became a man. He's like, God became a man? Like, yeah, that's who Jesus is, God in human form. The word became flesh. Like a light bulb went off. He started glowing, you know. It was really exciting when you see him. He's like, oh, man, this is awesome. I was like, oh, it's awesome. Yeah. You want to know how to live, I mean, or what God is like and everything.

So about that time, you know how you feel the presence of someone kind of staring? And so I looked around. Well, it's Blake Gaston. And Blake said, huh, this looks real familiar. So he told this guy, James, who I was calling Logan at this time. I don't know where I got that from. But –

You are your father's son. So he said, 35 years ago, he said, I was on a different stairwell in this building. And he pointed, he's like, we were three stories up. And he said, I was the first person that Jace, this fellow talking to you, shared Jesus with because we were best friends in school.

And I'm telling you, it was a moment. We all just kind of stopped. And I said, and here he is 34 years later, randomly bumping into us. And so that was as good of an end time Bible study encounter, I think God arranged, that you could possibly get. I mean, the tone of the sermon went up dramatically after that.

But so which, you know, eventually led to him and a family from Iowa, the mom, the dad, and the two sons also being baptized at the, what are we going to call that, the altar call? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So old Jersey baptized them and I baptized James. But I thought, man, what a...

What an awesome little encounter there. Well, that's why we call them stairwell studies. But it's interesting, Jace, because that's exactly, I mean, you have swerved exactly into the text we're going to be talking about today from John 5 of exactly how people miss it, which was happening, I think, in the first century.

Because they miss Jesus. But the weird with the weirder thing about that time frame versus now is that he was literally standing there. I mean, I mean, you know, we miss him 2000 years later because of a lot of different reasons. But they were missing him as he was actually standing in front of them.

And in some ways, it was even harder for them to, you know, for them to really believe and catch it, you know. You know what's crazy, too, Al, about this? This guy's boss, the guy I met playing card game, you know, this is just a worldly encounter. I mean, this guy just works. They do pools and stuff, you know, put in pools and stuff like that. He comes.

As a, you know, because this is one of his employees and he wanted to, you know, celebrate that with him, which I thought was amazing. And the sermon was about Ephesians 6. Yeah. And Bromley Talt, who was another fellow that I randomly met 35 years ago, I guess, and shared Jesus with, and was just a piece in him coming to the Lord. I mean, there were other people that shared, but out at Camp Chiocca.

And they were talking about the family unit in Ephesians 6 with the— Children obey your parents. Yeah, and then he got into the slaves and masters, which I thought he did a really good job of it being more about in their culture, which we've talked about before, kind of the employee, employer. And I thought, man, this is a weird—it seems like a lot of things are working together without a plan.

Unless somebody had a plan. Without a human plan or a human origin. Yeah, we were discussing this in the baptismal room, the ready room. Like all of us were in there discussing this.

Which was kind of crazy. Which, and the family from Iowa had an interesting thing. They were listening to this podcast, the dad, which then he said, we just had to come to Jesus meeting, which I loved that phrase. Yeah. And he said, you and Zach were arguing about baptism. He's like, but there was a line, and I'll give you credit.

When you said, instead of arguing about whether we should do this or not, or do you have to do this? It was like, it's all about Jesus and he's given us the opportunity. And I had said a line, I guess it sounds like something that I would say that, but I,

He said, you said that when people realize who Jesus is, oh, they'll run to the water. And he said, so we ran all the way from Iowa to be here. He said, make sure and tell Zach that. So I thought, ooh, okay, I'll tell him. So there you go, Zach.

I love that. Yeah. I have no disagreement with that. Yeah, I thought it was awesome. Yeah. Well, it's funny, Jace, you mentioned that because when Lisa and I were heading out of town, we were about to see dad and mom to visit before we headed out. And I had a really good visit with dad. Yeah.

And the lady that's so there's a lot of people there that work in this, you know, where he's at. And the the lady that's the best one to get him to do the most things, according to everybody that works there. We were talking with her. She came in, visited a little bit, which I love, you know, talking to the people that are helping out your family. And she said, you know, I go to White's Fair Road. And I said, really? Yeah.

And she said, yeah. And so I started asking her questions, which, but she doesn't go to like our assemblies, but she goes to celebrate recovery.

And she just started telling me about her life and what she wanted to do. And, you know, she has a heart for homeless people. And, you know, she's got these ideas. And so I connected her with Rucker. But that happened the same week. But I thought the same thing. I mean, here's somebody that's helping take care of our dad that has that same passion for wanting to help people. And I told her, I said, well, this man right here that you're helping us take care of, you know, he's led many, many people to Christ.

And so, you know, God has you in our lives for a reason now, too. It's not just, you know, us in your life, you know, and it's just as Zach said, if it's not a plan of human origin, it just shows you that greater divine quality of how he's looking out and making things happen on his timetable that just like you said, I mean, you just run into two or three instances. But the one thing, just you were willing to engage and then God had the opportunities waiting on you.

But if you're never willing to engage, you never step into any opportunity. Yeah. Well, it reminded me of where we're at, too. I mean, John 5 through the years, because I tell everybody my advice on coming to know Christ and then growing as a disciple is to read the book of John every day. And I'm not saying I've read it every day since I've come to Christ, but I would say most days I've read something in the book of John. And John 5, I've always...

Just had trouble with wrapping my head around. Yeah. And so I, and I'm not saying, oh, I got it figured out even now. I think it's a difficult chapter. What's been difficult about it for you? Well, I think, you know, when you think about understanding the, how God chose to reveal the Bible. Yeah. In a specific time to a specific group of people.

I think this really matters in what John 5 is saying, but 2,000 years later in our modern religious world, I think it's just easy to go to random verses and just pluck them out and then apply it to something today. And I think when you really look at what is said here, it's a little harder to wrap your head around.

We have a sponsor named Pure Talk, and I have the privilege of introducing a member of our party here who embodies that phrase. Zach? Wow. That's quite the compliment, Jace.

Was that backhanded? No, you're talk, buddy. Go for it. Okay. I got you. I thought it was a backhanded compliment. I love these guys. Here's the truth, though. I was reading through the comments on...

on one of our shows and I saw that some of you guys have actually switched over to Pure Talk and are noticing the same thing I did, which is tremendous savings. If you're currently with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, you could be saving a fortune every month by switching over to Pure Talk. That's right. Pure Talk, our sponsor, my cell phone provider, is cutting the fat from the wireless industry.

For $25 a month, that's it, $25 a month, you can get unlimited talk, text, and 5 gigs of data on America's most dependable 5G network. And listen to this. The average family of four saves over $1,000 a year when they switch to Pure Talk. That's real money back in your pocket. With Pure Talk's U.S. customer service team, you can switch easy, hassle-free,

in as little as 10 minutes. You can keep your phone and your phone number if you want, or if you're in the market to upgrade your current device like I did, they can help with that too. Switching is easy. I know because I did it, I'm now a proud Pure Talk customer. I mean, it's super easy to switch. I mean, seriously, you can do it in like 10 minutes or less.

And the service is incredible. It's on the same network as the big guys, but again, half the cost. I mean, it's a big deal. It saves a lot of money. You guys are starting to experience that now as you switch over. So, Jace, I know you say on Pure Talk, but apparently someone is listening. So if you haven't switched over, do this. Go to puretalk.com slash unashamed to make the switch, and you'll save an additional $3.

50% off your first month. Again, that's puretalk.com slash unashamed to start saving today. Pure Talk, wireless by Americans for Americans. And I mean, we can read the text and I'll show you the point that caused me to go. Like you heard it a different way your entire life and then you kind of go back and read it in a broader context. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I mean, it's like...

It's like I'll give you, let me give you a for instance, because we're going to read the whole thing today, right Al? Yeah.

And we kind of read the last time we were here, and I can't remember if we had guests in between, but we had read the story in John 5, 1 through 18, where Jesus heals this lame man at this pool, at this Bethsaida pool. And, of course, the miracle was great. It's the third sign we see here in John. But what got all the attention seemed to be that he did it on the Sabbath, which opens up.

The rest of the discussion, which we'll pick up in verse 19. So that's just kind of a reset and.

Well, I'll just wait. I'll give them to you as they come up, Zach. How about that? Okay. And let me read one thing I didn't get a chance to read when we were setting up to this text before I read this new part. And that is, you know, because N.T. Wright makes a big deal that Jesus is now that the signs are coming. And by the way, we only read about three so far that John focuses on, but there are many others.

There was a time when he was at the temple and he did wonders and miracles. So it's not like he only did three things. I mean, he's done a lot. Yeah, I did the same thing. I tried to make this into... Because it does seem like it's Jesus fulfilling the new creation. And so people have made this like, well, there's the seven signs of John. And some of them...

conclude those seven with Lazarus coming back from the dead, but then there's other groups that leave out him walking on the water, since that was kind of an intimate thing between him and his disciples. And then they had the cross as the seventh sign. But I'm kind of with you. The last verse says he did all kinds of things. If you had written them all down, there wouldn't be enough books to...

To hold them. So, you know, I do think it is a creation because he's going back. That's what John started with in the beginning was the Word. Right. The Word was with God. And you have to acknowledge that. What is that? John 20, is it 22, when he breathes on them, he breathes the Holy Spirit. Did you know that's the only place that that Greek verb is used in the New Testament?

And it's only when you look at the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament. Yeah. I think I'm right on that. It's only used six times, but it's used every time where something, like when God breathed into Adam.

Life, remember that verse? Right. Genesis 2. Yep. So that's why N.T. Wright and others, they're saying this is a...

a sign of the new creation being born. Right. Which I agree with that. Yeah. Yes. And that's his point is he's really emphasizing that the word has become flesh. And then he quoted Jesus' statement to Thomas at the end of John. And I had never linked those two together, but I thought it was pretty good. You remember when he told Thomas was, you know, he saw the scars and he put his hand on him. And then Jesus said, well,

Because you have seen me, you have believed. Meaning not just saw him resurrected, but seeing everything he's done. But blessed are those who have not seen me.

And yet have believed. And I think that becomes kind of the whole central point of what John is talking about. It's just not the miracle man, the miracle worker, the one who does the signs. It's that God is in flesh. And anybody that believes that in that day and since he says now that now there's some faith.

which I think would include us, obviously, 2,000 years later. Well, I've kind of thought about it while you were talking. I think the problem I've had with John 5, Zach, to answer your question, which you're going to like this, because I think this idea of the not yet. Now. Yeah, not yet, now, I couldn't even remember. This should be your chapter, Zach. This should be the theme of your podcast. For the podcast.

Which, by the way, I got a bone to pick with you about something about that. About the podcast? We can do it publicly, I guess, if we want to. I bumped into a guy and he's like, you need to get on to Zach. He stole one of your ideas. And I said, well, look, the Bible says,

I thought he was talking about whatever. I don't know what I thought he was all about, but I was like, look, the, the God wrote the book for everyone. He's given us all the Holy spirit. We share this. He's like, no, no. He's still one of your, your ideas about the podcast. And I was like,

What was it? He said, you specifically asked that you wanted to get John Tyson on the podcast. And I was like, well, yeah. And he's like, Zach had him on his podcast. I said, nope. I said, that didn't happen. He said, oh, yeah, it did. I listened to it. I said, well, he would have told me if that happened.

I did have him on. He was coming on this one too. Oh, yeah. Look at that. So I looked it up when I got home and I thought, that low-down rascal, he stole my idea. He's coming on the pike. The problem was you guys weren't recording the day he could do it. It was like at 4.30 in the afternoon.

And so I said, well, we'll get a time when you can record in our recording. I don't want the excuses. It was a scheduling issue, Jason. I don't want the excuses. I want to know why didn't you tell me that? Which shows of a guilty conscience in some sort. I'm like, I was so shocked because I think that got out of the buzz. I was like, no, that didn't happen. He would have told me that.

Nope. Not a word. I could not believe it. So I started to listen to it, but I was so angry I couldn't even listen to it. But here is the difference. I want John to come in in person. I think we will have a much better discussion with him in the studio in Louisiana.

No, I agree. Let's leave him off with some crawfish. Would you do a fish out of water moment with a pastor from New York? We need to take him on that. No, that's what I'm saying. He reminds me in a weird way of my wife because when I met her, we didn't have anything in common.

I mean, that I could think of. Because he's an Aussie, right? Yeah, and he kind of throws like rural America. He lives in New York City. Yeah, an Aussie in New York. But I love the challenge. I mean, to me, that's what we do have in common. He has a heart to share Jesus. I mean, I actually, I've told y'all this before. I actually did a street preaching. I went on a street preaching venture in New York City. I did it, which...

I should have brought my cricket button because that's what it felt like from my perspective. But I mean, I did that when I was like a teenager, 18 or 19 years old. But anyway, my point was, I think this chapter really picks up on that. And what I'm saying about why it was hard to wrap my head around it is that

I think we tend to do two extremes in our religious world. We either think everything's happening right now or everything's happening later. It just seems that way on how people view the Bible. I think that's a really good point, actually. And you're going to see that in this chapter is what I'm saying. Yeah, because there is most definitely in this text –

There is a what's happening in that moment, but it's also a picture of what's going to happen. Yeah, there's a tension that we have to hold. I don't know who said this. I heard some young preacher on Instagram. I was watching a clip and he said the title of the clickbait was, is clarity an idol? Is having clarity, is clarity, can you make that an idol? And the guy's point was,

We want clarity so bad, but maybe God has you in a posture where he's not telling you everything for a reason, and it puts you in a posture of humility where you're dependent on him. And I think that what you're talking about, Jace, I've experienced that too. I want to go all in with one side so that I don't have to worry about it. Is it here? Is it later? And I just want to pick a side and go all in, and I don't think that God gives us that.

As an option, I think it is something you got to hold an attention that you really can't fully get your mind around. And I'm learning to be OK with that because I'm learning to realize that I'm not actually sovereign.

you know, the universe that he is. And so I can, I can lean on him and not on my own understanding. Don't you lean on him the most when you really don't have an answer for something? I mean, that's when you need him the most, you know, when you think you've got all the answers is when you say, well, you know, I got this guy. Well, spring has sprung. And one of the things that I'm doing this spring is working on myself and

Jace, you reminded me that I needed to probably lose a pound or two. You did it in the loving Jace way. Yeah. And so I have. But I tried to do it by myself and it was an epic failure. I needed a partner and I found the perfect partner. It's Ph.D. weight loss. Dr. Ashley Lucas is the founder of Ph.D. weight loss. And she is a has a Ph.D.,

in sports nutrition and chronic disease. And so she's been helping people for a very long time. And one of the things I love about Dr. Ashley, she does a great job explaining the science behind weight and weight loss and exactly what we need to do. The program teaches you what to eat. It teaches you when to eat. It works on your relationship with food.

And it shows us how to lose this weight for life. If you're watching this on YouTube, this was me at the start of the journey with PhD weight loss. And so this has been 12 weeks now, three months in, and I have lost now over 40 pounds, which is a great blessing to me. The best thing is it wasn't done with gimmicks or pills or injections or side effects.

It's very natural and it's worked very well for me. I'm not hungry, which I love. One of the things I love about PhD Weight Loss is they provide up to 80% of your weekly food at no extra cost, which I enjoy as well. So it's working for me. Lisa's coming on board. She's sitting right here. She's got an up-close personal view, so she wants to join in as well.

Join us on this weight loss journey. Schedule your one-on-one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900. Or you can visit MyPhDWeightLoss.com. That's 864-644-1800. Tell them Al sent you. It's time to lose some weight.

Yeah, I agree. I want to hear, though, what you're— Okay, well, I'll give you one, and that way then we can go back and read the whole thing, because there's others, too, because Jesus starts describing his relationship with God, which gets complicated. I mean, you're like, wait, what? There's a lot of wait, what moments in this trying to wrap your head around, because we're just one person. I mean, we have a body, soul, and spirit, but—

Jesus starts describing himself. And I think what gets tricky is, before I read the passage I want to read, is I think there's been a debate for ever since the Bible came out on whether he's man, are you going to focus on him being a human, or whether he's God. And that debate continues today. Just go read any message board with that subject.

And I think the most funny moment, I mean, just to kind of back up and give you the context of that, because that's also addressed before I read this, is, and I've dubbed this, y'all probably heard this, but it's a joke. I don't know who came up with it, but it's funny. What is the most favorite verse in the Bible for women? This was the joke, yeah. What is...

The favorite verse of women in a humorous way when it comes to Jesus being a man. I already think that whatever you're going to say next, you've already crossed over into very dangerous territory. I know. That's why this is really funny. I wouldn't have – what would the comedian say? You have to have an element of uncomfortability.

and danger to be funny. That's why this is funny. That's what John Chris said. Yeah. So Jace has come up with women's favorite verse in the Bible in a humorous way about Jesus being a man. Are you ready? I'm ready. Okay. Let me see if you can figure it out. It's like a riddle. It's in John 11. John 11. Think about what happens in John 11. That's when Lazarus was raised from the dead. Yep. You got it. So when did Jesus know...

that Lazarus had died. Once he saw him or before? Before. Yeah. He knew he was dead. Yeah. But that's why he said his, this is not the favorite verse. I'm just setting this up. He says, you know, he's asleep. He first says it, you know, but he knew he was dead, which is only something that God could know. How did he know?

He wasn't there, right? I mean, you can read the text. You can follow this rabbit trail. He knows he's dead. Yeah, he says it in verse 14. He says, Lazarus is dead. Because they had said fallen asleep. And he's like, oh, no, he's dead. Okay, so he knows he's dead. So he gets there. And now we're coming to the favorite verse. And he says...

I need some directions on where you laid him. Oh, it's in verse 33. There's the verse. John 11, 34. Will you read it out? Yep. When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. Then the next verse. And he said, where have you laid him? And they said, Lord, come and see. Where have you laid him? So see, you didn't get the joke.

He asked for directions. You know he's a man because he asked for directions. Oh, man. Well, now I'm just saying, how could you know that he died before everybody else? And I say, well, because he's the son of God. And then need directions on where the tomb is. Well, that's because he's a man. I got to say that. I think John Chris was right about what's needed to make a joke a joke, but you also have to have delivery. Yeah.

And I felt like... Well, I looked up and... I felt like you were lacking delivery of that joke, Jason. So here's what's funny. The only female part of our group, Maddie, I looked over there and she gave it the Roman gladiator thumbs down. Bad joke. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't think it landed well. I think... Well, here's why. Here's why I think the reason I delivered it the way I did...

Because I think more importantly is the spiritual implications of that. I do think in that moment he was showing his divine nature and his human nature. Because he wept in verse 35. Well, he asked for directions. Now, the only argument you can come up with is that was a rhetorical question because he does ask sometimes rhetorical questions. Yeah.

But it just seems... Well, but he also said when asking, he said, no one knows the time except for the Father. Not even... What is he saying there? No, no, that's right. No, he didn't know when... Yeah, I know the verse you're talking about. About when he's coming back, I think. You would think he would know when he was coming back. Yeah, but he says only the Father in heaven knows.

So I think that, yeah, it's interesting because you do see a limited of his omniscience in his incarnated state. And also, if you think about the fact that he occupied a human body, I mean, that alone is a...

God is omnipresent, right? He's everywhere at the same time. Jesus is incarnate God. Jesus is in a body that occupies a particular space, a time and space. He's a human. He's a human. That's why he says in John 11, he says, I think he actually says something like, let me pull it back up, but something about him not being there. Like where? At the place where he was when he died? What did he say? He said, uh,

He said, for your sake, I'm glad that I was not there. Well, the question is, well, I thought God was everywhere.

Well, this is the point, though. But in Jesus, he's like, Jesus said, I wasn't there. Oh, wow. Because Jesus is God dwells in a body in Jesus. So it is a very, very complex thing. Which is why he needed directions is what I'm saying. Y'all are not given that much weight. But to me, someone who thinks simplistically.

I'm giving that some weight. Why is he asking? Which is interesting. It seems like a random thought, but you're like, well, wouldn't he know where he was buried? Yeah. Yeah.

So I've always said, you know, Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. I don't know if that's an accurate description. That's just the way I've always described it. Well, what's funny is, James— I said that yesterday because James asked me the same question. Well, how does that work? I was like, that's what you're going to have to really study on. But he is a man because theologically he has to be a man. I mean, when you get into the book of Hebrews—

He explains that. We don't have a high priest who's unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but he was tempted in every way. Well, why is he tempted? I mean, what are we doing here? He became a man. Now, I have my own theories on how this all happened, which I've said before. You know, Jesus, he had the Holy Spirit. You know, when he was baptized, the Holy Spirit dwelled.

I believe, on him and in him. I realize there was a lot of things going on there. God was declaring him the Son of God. But he never did a miracle before he had the Spirit. And we didn't read about it. He goes out in the desert and faces Satan, mano a mano, after that as well, which was interesting. Well, right. And we make a big deal of the Spirit not being given yet because that's going to be covered in John 7. And then...

Acts 2, the Spirit is poured out, but he also breathed on his disciples there in John 20, giving them the Spirit. But I want you to think about this. Jesus didn't have any sin. So I think him surrendering in baptism and then God speaking him as the Son of God, well, what's the big deal about the Holy Spirit coming in him and all of a sudden starting these glimpses of supernatural power?

I mean, he didn't have any sin. So he wasn't being baptized for the forgiveness of sins or something like that is my point, or like John's baptism, being a baptism of repentance. So it was just a declaration. I mean, he says this is to fulfill all righteousness, which the fruit of his spirit is.

is what's right about everything, love, joy, peace, patience. I just think that's a factor, but his man, him being human, humbled himself, you know, and allowed himself to be baptized. I mean, because you're thinking, why is God being baptized? ♪

So, Jace, when you and I were young lads in seminary, we were learning about the Bible. You were the first person that I'd ever heard talk about, you know, the power of martyrdom.

and kind of what that meant to you. And you were sharing that in a lesson you did. I'll never forget it. I mean, it just impacted me so much because I hadn't really thought about the power of that, just even the first century and what we read about in the Bible. Well, you should stop. When people give their lives for something, you should say, okay, this had to be something serious. Now, people have given their lives over a lie, and people have given their lives over truth and truth.

After you read the Bible and discover Jesus, you think, okay, now I see why people gave their lives for it. And this witness continues on. The book you're holding there, When Faith is Forbidden, is from our friend Todd Nettleton, who's the Voice of the Martyrs radio host.

And he's traveled into these restricted nations for over 20 years. And he's written about these courageous Christians that are still out there for the cause and still putting themselves at peril and in risk. And that's the power of it. So this is a wonderful way to reflect on what he has seen and the interviews he's done of these people, but also just to challenge your own life. It's a great opportunity to be inspired by all these remarkable stories. And here's the beauty of it.

It's free. So don't miss out on the opportunity to be inspired by these remarkable stories. Request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed.

Yeah, I think it's helpful to understand, at least has been for me, the John 17, 3 passage is kind of a climactic declaration of Jesus about himself and about how we enter into eternal life, which he describes it as knowing God.

God, the one true God. But then he says, and Jesus Christ, his son whom he sent. So it's like, what does that mean? I think if you think inside, because it seems like, wait, is Jesus God? Is he not God? Is he human? Is he God? How does this all work? I think Bill Smith helped me understand this early on because we got in a discussion in my friend group back when I lived there about the Trinity.

And about how God operates. And so the question we were asking was, was Jesus present in the Old Testament? That was the big discussion we were having. And we were looking at all these verses in the Old Testament where it seemed like that the Son of God was present. And

And so Bill said this when we went and met with him. It was so hilarious because he was 70-something years old when we asked him this, and it was just like we were wrestling with this thing that he had probably understood many, many years earlier. And he said, no, Jesus was not present in the Old Testament.

And we were all like, wait, what? He said the Son was present. He said Jesus is the incarnation of the Son. And you have to understand that the name of Jesus is God incarnate. It's the Son who... So when you think about God, it's Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That's the Godhead.

And then Jesus, who comes in the New Testament, is the incarnation of the Son who takes on flesh. That at the name of Jesus, Philippians chapter 2, at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord. And so I think that's the thing is when we're thinking about who God is, and it does matter

It really matters what we think about God, because if you read the verse here in John 5, 20, actually 19. So Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the father doing. For whatever the father does, the son does likewise for the father loves the son.

and shows him all that he himself is doing. And I think that if you start to try to think about who is God in his essence, 1 John 4, 8, and it says it twice in 1 John 4, it says God is love. He is love. In order for God to be love, you have to have two things present. You have to have a lover present.

And you have to have a beloved. Love without an object of the love is not love. The love has to terminate on something for this idea that if I love my wife, well, I have to have a wife to love, right? I can't say I love...

And then there's not a you on the other side of that. So inside the Godhead, that's why I would push back against what's called modalism or oneness doctrine. It's not really Christian. I know that will make some people mad, but it's not a Christian teaching. Well, it won't make any of my people mad because we have no idea what that is. Well, the God is one person.

The God is one. The Father shows up in different modes as a son and a spirit. Well, but He is one. He's one in being. He's a complicated one. He's one in His essence. He's one in His nature. They're not divided. But God is love. And if God is not...

Father, Son, and Spirit, then he's not love. But he is love because there's a lover, there's a beloved, and then there's the love between them. The lover is the Father, the beloved is the Son, and the love between them is the Spirit. And this is the core of the Christian faith, is who is this God? And then out of that love, he creates us and invites us to participate in the inner life, to become, as Peter would say, partakers of

of the divine nature. You know what I mean? - Wouldn't you say, Zach, that that's exactly why he created marriage with the first man and the first woman, which is the closest human connection to what you just described, where there's love and there's companionship and there's a spirit and a bond that goes between two people. - Oh, 100%. - I just thought it was the greatest. - And not just marriage. That's the reason why he gave us the church, Ephesians chapter five. I'm not talking about marriage. I'm talking about the church.

And so it's all the things that we see that God has given us as gift are to reflect what I just said, to reflect that nature of who he is. And then we can actually taste it. Not in fullness, because, you know, as Jason said earlier, there is that tension of kind of not yet now. But like in my marriage, to the degree that I am actually...

becoming one with my wife and that our love is based on fidelity and it's unadulterated and non-manipulative, non-positioning. To the degree that I do that with Jill and she does that with me, we can actually taste a, as the song would say, it's a little bit of a foretaste

of glory divine. It's like, this is what, this is what God's, is your picture of what he's like in our best moments. And even in our kids. I mean, you could say the same thing. Yeah. Cause then that's where he goes into Ephesians six. Well, since I guess this is just introducing, well, we only have a couple of minutes and I never, I never read the verse that I was going to read. I'll give you the other point that I was going to read. That's like the not yet now.

And it's right after what you read, Zach, because we're going to have to go back on the next podcast and go verse by verse. So watch what 24 of John 5 says. Very, very, very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. Well, are you getting that now or later?

Correct. Yes. The answer is yes. Watch how that pattern continues. And will not be judged, but has crossed over from death to life. Well, do you mean now or later? Yes. For truly, I tell you, a time is coming.

And has now come. Was that now or later? Well, he literally said now, like later and now. Yeah, yeah. When the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. Is that now or later? Well, if I hadn't have done that the way I just did it, you would all say, well, that's later. You see what I mean? That's right. For as the Father has life in himself, he has granted the Son life.

Also to have life in himself, which goes back to this other point we were talking about, about Jesus and God and their relationship. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the son of man. But then the next verse, we get back into this now and later. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Those who have done what is good and rise to live,

And those who have done what is evil to rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, and I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. And so there it does seem like he was just talking about later, but, I mean...

There it is. I mean, I think you have to keep that in mind. I think that's correct. And again, looking at that Son of Man reference, you always got to go back to, what do we say? Daniel 7. Son of Man. Go back to Daniel 7. Daniel 7, the picture of Daniel 7 is not an end times. It's not the, I think the word is parousia. It's not the end times. It's what happens when the Son of Man is presented before the Ancient of Days and he's given a kingdom.

He's given dominion. He's given authority. So all that language is right here. And this authority language, at the end of the book of Matthew, whenever Jesus gives the Great Commission, how does he begin it? He doesn't say, all authority in heaven and on earth will be given to me one day. He doesn't say that. What does he say?

It has been given to me. So he's talking about here, this is like when we hear that son of man language, you have to think this is a whole lot about a kingdom that's here. And it does, the authority extends into the second coming of Christ for sure. But it doesn't begin at the second coming of Christ. That's why in 1 Thessalonians 4, which is the only passage where the idea of a rapture comes up,

It uses that same word that, what did you call it, parousia? Yeah, the parousia. Yeah, the same word. So it is a now and later. But Jesus, here's the close, though. Jesus will be king in eternity, and Jesus is king now because eternity is now. I think that's the point. Here's the way I'll close with this. Here's what N.T. writes. What God does in the present, he will complete in the future.

which I think you see both sides. So we'll pick this up next discussion. We're out of time. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.