Ep 1072 | Jase & Al Intervene After Zach’s Solo Vacation Sparks A Marriage Meltdown
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Welcome back to Unashamed. We got the band back together. We did. Zach, you were here. I flew in. In the studio. You flew in just for today. Jill picked me up at the airport. Jill's here as well. Jill drove in and I flew in. Yeah. Does that seem weird that I drove 11 hours to pick him up? No.

At the airport? That was the plan? That was the plan. I'm the family chauffeur. You gotta have people. You're his survey team. You know how you said you had people? I got people now, Jill. Just my people. You just now realizing that. Jill, so I pull in and 10 o'clock last night coming in from a flight myself and there's this giant van.

I'm talking about giant. It's like one of those big party bus limo vans. Oh, yeah. And it's blocking half the driveway. It's a 14-seater. No. Well, because it was converted. First, I thought, did Meals on Wheels come to my house on accident? It's like a church bus. It's huge. That's what we drive. And you own it or you rent it? No, I own it. It's my everyday car. It's what I take Ruth to school in. Oh.

Along with 12 other children. It's been reduced to a nine-seater. They hold nine people right now as it sits in the parking lot. Y'all needed as many kids as y'all have. We did. How many kids do you have? We have five, last I counted. Well, six if you count my son-in-law. We do have one baby. We have to count him. It gets complicated at this stage of life. So we can all go on a trip together. That's why I got it. We can all fit. We can go somewhere together.

All the kids that still live at home always have an extra kid. Well, she picked me up because I actually did a father and son trip. I was being a good dad. So I took Fred. Did some camping out in the woods. Not camping. I took Fred to a little place we like to call San Antonio, Texas. Uh-oh. You've been in San Antonio. Uh-oh. For a little tournament. A Final Four action? A little tournament they call the Final Four. You guys may have heard about that. I watched the last...

10 seconds. That was the best part. Nothing happened. It was anticlimactic. Dropped the ball, scrambled around. I didn't even know who was ahead. Florida was ahead. They won. Go Gators. Congratulations, Zach. You come in excited. Fred's here too somewhere. He loved it. I upgraded my seats. The whole thing was kind of a...

I asked him how much he spent on the tickets, and he said, oh, I don't remember. I said, oh, you remember. Oh, he knows. Trust me. And I'm going to find that number. No, I said I don't remember exactly how much I spent. Yeah, I'm going to find that number. So I've got a question, Jill. So Alabama, you're an Alabama fan. We're LSU fans, Zach's Ford fans.

So they were right there. They were like in the Elite Eight. So when the plans were being made for this trip, was there any talk about it being a family trip instead of just a father and son trip? That's interesting that you bring that up. I was just curious because... I feel like y'all been gossiping about me while I was gone. I'm just asking the questions here. I don't know. Well, so Zach made it sound like he took his son on a father-son trip. That's how he opened. Right, yeah. But what he didn't...

say is that no his brother went as well with his entire family yeah wife kids brought his kids wife you know they're all Florida fans no no okay

That's questionable. So Zach comes along as the creepy uncle without his family? Yeah, it's kind of weird. He was like, I'm going to go have a vacation with not my family, but I love you guys. No, the plan started. We're going as a family. Alabama could have very well been in it. They were right there. Who beat Alabama?

Yeah, Duke. Okay. Well, that was a quality loss. It was. It was a tough loss. But it was this, you know, family trip. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be the second we lost. I mean, it wasn't. I mean, he was like on that computer just like, oh, that's two less tickets I got to buy. I'm going to nail it down right now. That's why he upgraded because he bumped you off the docket. Flying first class.

class. I mean, Fred gets off the flight. He's like, man, that was... Well, to be fair, the first class was an upgrade. To be fair, there's no fair in this situation at all. No fairness. And I'll be honest, I've been hot about it ever since. Yeah. I knew we had a hot take. She told me two days ago she was over it, though, but apparently there's some unresolved... Well, you know me. I'm just trying to dig in there and help your relationships. You know what they say about resentments.

No expectations. I'm sorry. Sometimes those very things come back to life. Expectations are premeditated resentment. So we're dealing with the marital problems right now. So did you stay at a first-class hotel as well? No. That was a whole other deal. So you changed on the hotel to have the nice seats. Well, when I bought the hotel, everything was booked. I got Motel 6.

But it was $350 a night, which I was like, whoa. But it looked nice. I was like, well, it looks clean. I mean, it's a Motel 6, too. A Motel 6? That's what I said. I thought maybe they've redone the whole thing down there. I mean, who knows? I get down there. I mean, this thing...

They did it because people needed a room. They did. Because the price went up. Yeah. So if you look around the perimeter of the hotel, it looked like Skid Row. I mean, it was just like, I mean, it was. Luckily, you had your orange hat on. I had my orange hat on. Because if the shooting broke out. We figured out that he has a deep.

He thinks people are always shooting at him, so he wears the orange hat. You know what's funny? That's how I spotted him last night on the game. Final four, no joke. We're watching the game. He's paid no telling how much to have—no, this is good. This is real good. To have his seats upgraded. Okay? This dude is sitting like six rows up. I mean, he's in it. The camera spans, okay? And all of a sudden, I'm like, stop.

because I see the hat. I see the hat and it zooms in on him and I kid you not, I kid you not, I have a picture, we can attach it. He's looking at his phone. Oh my goodness. You have paid. Because, because she was supposed to, there is, I've gotten a text from our producer Cole on our other podcast

Another shameless plug, not yet now. And she did not do her job, which was to come up with the title description. Because I was taking care of your kids. Somebody had to pull the slack. Somebody had to drive 11 hours. I had to take care of the kids. I feel like we need to speed this thing along. I think we're right where we need to be. We're working through issues. You've done a lot of counseling with couples. I feel like you're... That's what this has turned into. That's what this has turned into a counseling session. We'll take any advice.

Well, one plus one is one in the Bible. Unless you're going to the Final Four. Yeah. And then one plus one means you get left out. I was saying, I didn't know. Pick me up at the airport and whisper no. That's where it went wrong. What part? They lost? Well, no. When you're going to San Antonio, a little place called San Antonio, that little part of the speech, one plus one means one.

She's in. Okay. I just assume my wife is in on all trips and all functions until anybody else is a plus one, right? No, you follow that advice to you and Lisa do not for years. I've said we never always have to travel. I guess a lot of these people will come to me and they'll say, I'm going to tell you this, but don't tell anybody, you know, including your wife. And I, I, I,

I draw a line there. I said, no, one plus one is one. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, if you tell me, you told her. So deal with it. I don't disagree with that. Well, I hope not. That's a biblical concept. What I'm saying, though, is this is what I feel like. I'm on the flashback. When me and Jill first got married, we talked about this on our other podcast just last week.

This is an ongoing intervention. No, this is something separate. We did premarital counseling after we got married because we were apart during our engagement. Well, that explains everything. Yeah. You waited too late to get it worked out. I knew when I walked in there. I got the same feeling with you guys. You sit down with Jill and she's more charming than me.

And I'm a lot easier. That's true. I'm a lot more susceptible to be pegged as a villain. Well, you've got on a bright orange. Yeah. Target, target. No, but that's some kind of emotional don't hurt me.

Yeah, because I've been wounded. Yeah, I know that. I mean, you think about being raised in the family I was raised in. All the older cousins. It all goes back to when he was 12 or 13. He would come over here during Christmas holidays. For real. I was mean to your husband when he was a kid. I'm admitting it, but he deserved it. Everybody has to learn. Either grow up or get out of the way. The train's moving on.

Anyway. So welcome back, Zach. It's good to have you back in the studio. It's good to be back. I did leave that hotel, though. I told the guy, this is not what you advertised. And he's like, well, it's what it is. No, I'm going to have to side with Motel 6. Me too. For anybody to think. The best thing they can say is we left a light on. Then basically they're saying you get what you get. They've written songs about it. There's jingles.

You knew what you were getting into. They would not, would not refund my money. No, no. I would have never refunded your money. But I said, I can't stay here. In a court of law, who would have won? Me. No. It's a non-smoking room. I said, this smells like smoke. He said, no, it doesn't. I said, yes, it does. You went to a Motel 6. They all smell like smoke. Then you need to advertise. The room is a smoking room.

I've noticed being around Zach more and more that he's pretty tight when it comes to money. He has rich young ruler tendencies. Ha ha ha.

I always say he's so tight he squeaks when he walks. I call it being a good steward, but you call it what you want, Jace. That's why I use PureTalk. It's my wireless company with a qualifying plan of just $35 a month. Tell me how tight I am. $35 a month. You can get the brand new Samsung Galaxy A26 for free. This phone has basically an indestructible Gorilla Glass and captures a beautiful wide angle photos.

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How much did you spend on that one? $79. I couldn't find a hotel room then. So my pride got to me in the argument with a guy. This is actually a good biblical lesson. My pride got to me, and I'm like, you're not going to take advantage of me. I'm going to leave. Of course, he kept the money. He didn't care. Probably re-rented the room. And then I end up at a worse place. Yep.

That's what happened. So it was, the stay was, that's where I got my, you got your justice there, Jill. Hey, it's gone, yeah. But it's good to be in Westman Road. Yeah, it's always good to have you back. Well, I'm itching. I'm looking, that's only been 10 minutes. Wow, that felt like an hour. Yeah. Wow. I'm itching to get into question number six. It just applies. I'm not going to do it, but I can tell you what it is. You know, we're going through John. I had this idea, I didn't read this in a book.

This is an original. Well, I saw this stat somewhere that Jesus asked 307 questions. I thought, that's a lot. Wow. And he was only asked, it was 100 and something.

which I thought, don't we have this backwards? If you have the creator of the universe on the planet, shouldn't we be asking more questions than he's asking? So it kind of got me going down that rabbit hole. But then it's like, so I just started reading the questions in the gospel every time he asked a question. And they're like so profound. If you just take them as a bumper sticker. I mean, the first one is in John, what do you seek?

I mean, that's just a good question. What do you, as a human being? Yeah. So we've been, as we go along, we've been pointing out the questions. I love that. Al's keeping up with them. Yeah, I got to run them down. So it's interesting because in the fifth question, which is where we're at, John 6, he asked a question, but he did it as kind of a trap because I'm getting to number six because it fits in with Zach's Motel 6 story. Yeah.

The fifth question was, where shall we buy bread for these people to eat? But then it kind of explains why he asked that. He asked that for a reason. So it's kind of a part one question. Yeah. Because then his second question, do you know what it is? You would never know this. That's why I asked you. What are you? The first one? I got to find the verse. I actually discovered this last night. Is it 67? Yeah.

Read it, Al. You do not want to leave too, do you? Oh, no, that's number seven. There's one in between. Oh, I came down from heaven? No, it's a question, Al. Well, that was a question. You have to look really hard. I like the silence, Matty, because we're looking. I know what it says. It says, does this offend you? Right after he told him he was the bread of life,

And he's like, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood, which is a really profound statement. And the disciples became a little, I think the word. Oh, it's in verse 61. Yeah, I knew we'd find it. Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, does this offend you? Just think about that question. The creator of the universe is asking his disciples, does this offend you? What I just said, does this offend you?

So it made me think of that because you were offended by what they were saying. He was offended by what they were charging. Yeah, it was more the charge, but yeah. Well, that's what I mean. That's the point. You're like, it's false advertising. Yeah, false advertisement. No, the problem was that $350. If I paid $79, I'd have been like, yeah. Well, if you go there tonight,

It'll cost you $79. Oh, yeah. But last night, it was going to be. Well, they got me. They scalded me. But my point is proven. It was they were giving you a difficult concept to wrap your head around. They wanted you to pay $350 for this room. And I was completely powerless. So you were offended. So my point was, and this was a little weightier matter, because he was saying, to go back to that first question,

It's like, where are we going to buy bread? Because he's eventually going to say, I am the bread from heaven. And they didn't like that. They had trouble. And people still today, they're like, ooh, I don't know what that's. This is getting weird. I mean, why would he say something like that? Which he later explains it.

He was like, the flesh counts for nothing. Spirit gives life. And what I've told you is filled with the spirit and life. Abundantly. Yeah, because I think it comes down to whatever you're hungry and thirsty for in life. And so he depicts bread that you buy at the store as something that will spoil. Because even though you eat it, you're like, well, I got to eat to live, but we're going to die anyway.

He's like, but if you get in on this bread, me, you will live. And what's unique about it, it's the same basic conversation he had with the woman at the well, and there it was about water. Remember the living water? You drink this drink, you'll never be thirsty again. She's like, oh, tell me where to get this water so I don't have to come down here every day. And he's like, no. He says the same line. He said in there, you'll never thirst, and here he says you'll never be thirsty.

Be hungry. And it's beautiful because she gets it. She does get it because she ends up leaving the physical water, what she came to get. She came to draw the physical water. Left the jar there. Left the jar there. That became...

That was not important. That's right. Ran back to the town. Yeah. That's exactly right. I'm going to meet this guy. Well, the whole deal I brought up these questions is because I can never go... If I ever hear Missy say, oh, we got some people coming over, we got to go because we're always doing that. It's like, oh, we forgot the bread. Go get the bread. But I think this makes me...

Always remember that no matter, we may give our guests bread, but we better give them Jesus based on John chapter six. That's good. I mean, I think that's what his point is. And I don't think you understand that.

that scripture and what he's saying until you taste that bread, until you taste Jesus, until you experience, you have that moment where you feel full maybe for the first time. And no one can explain that to you until you meet him. Yeah, exactly. And I think it helps in things. I mean, throughout my Christian life, I've read things, especially early in my Christian life,

where I'm like, I really answered that question. I didn't like what I was reading. I found it offensive because, you know, it basically meant I'm going to have to make some changes here. If this is real. So I think it's a very profound question. So we were in Nebraska this weekend, in O'Neill, Nebraska, which is right in the middle of the state. And the guy that I first met there when I got to this event told me that the county, O'Neill was the county seat,

And there were 100,000 plus cows, but only a little over 10,000 people. So there's 10 cows for every person in O'Neill, Nebraska, which I didn't know. But I figured that when I was driving up there because I saw a lot of cows. And I get there and the place is packed. But I knew because there wasn't a lot of people around. So I'm meeting people where they've come from an hour, two hours away to this event, which we were doing a pregnancy center fundraiser. But there were three different young men there.

that all came up to me and said, not together, totally separate throughout the night. We were meeting people at the end. They had been listening to the podcast, and all three had a unique sin problem in their life that they shared with me. Lisa and I just shared, so I guess they felt open enough. They said, we've been listening to the podcast.

And it's been the biggest thing that's helped my life. And every one of them had a, well, one of them had two daughters with him and then the other two had a wife there. And the wife was like, oh, it's changed his life. And so it really inspired me because I thought, and then I told all three of them, I said, well, you know, when you have that hole that you're trying to fill,

And you're doing it, whether it's an addiction, whatever the situation is you're trying to fill that thing with, you know you're just not filling it with the right thing. I mean, Jesus fills that. And the reason you connected to us is because everything we talk about, we point back to Jesus and who he is and how he fills that. So it's just what you're talking about with that hunger and thirst. It's the same with any desire. It's earthly. It's worldly.

If Jesus is greater, and once you know that, then everything else pales in comparison. So what used to be irresistible now is like, why would I even want that? Yeah. But only until you've experienced that, you can never really know.

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unashamed at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code unashamed at checkout. Fastgrowingtrees.com code unashamed. Now's the perfect time to plant. Use unashamed to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Well, it's offensive because Christ is offensive and the gospel is offensive because if you don't have an imagination for what this bread would taste like,

Whatever you've been eating, C.S. Lewis called it mud pies in the slum. He said we can't fathom a holiday by the sea because we're settling for these mud pies in the slum.

that you can't have an imagination for what God's offered. And actually, Paul says that too, I think, in 1 Corinthians, what no eye has seen or no ear has heard or the heart of man has not imagined what God has prepared for those who love Him. So we can't even imagine what that is. So it's offensive because what essentially at the core of the gospel, there's this thread that runs through it, which is this, that

There is a God and I'm not him. And I think at some point in every person's life, if you're going to walk with Jesus, you're going to have to get to that realization that there is a God, I'm not him, and I'm going to submit to him no matter what.

Whatever it says about my sexuality, whatever it says about how I conduct myself sexually with my money, with my time, with my effort, it's all coming up under his lordship. And that's offensive because I don't want to release my own autonomy. I think I know how to construct my life in a way, in a manner that's going to be

pleasurable for me. But the truth is, is that when I've taken that on sovereignty for myself and said, I'm going to run this like I want to run it, that's never actually worked out well. Yeah. And how many people do we all know that...

seem like they have worldly success and look like they're on the top of their game, but are miserable. Miserable with their family, miserable with their wife, miserable with their relationship. I mean, something there's just, because again, you can't find enough stuff in this world to fill that hole. Which is funny because the text here in John 6, the correlation in the Old Testament is pretty obvious, right? That this manna coming down from heaven. They get into this discussion.

It's interesting how what they did, though, when the, I think we mentioned this on a previous podcast, that they, I mean, you think about if you're in the, if you're in, you're part of the Israelites and you've witnessed the parting of the Red Sea, for crying out loud. I mean, you've witnessed these, all the 10 plagues that happened in Egypt. I mean, I would think that for me, I would be like,

I'm going with this God, Yahweh. I'm in. He provides. And then whenever you're hungry, bread literally falls out of the sky.

But they were so afraid of turning over their lives to trust in him that they would hoard up the bread for themselves. And so I think what you see that the picture here is Christ is saying, like, I'm that bread. Like, I'm going to provide. I'm the one who sustains all of this.

But for whatever reason, we humans, we think that we somehow got to, yes, I got you, but I'm going to have a little stash over here, whatever your stash may be. Well, because it's earthly. I think it's because we think we know what we want to seek. I keep going back to that first question. What do you seek? I mean, what a question. And I can't tell you how many times in my life I have thought, okay, this is what I want. This is what I want. This is what I seek for my life.

You thought you wanted to go to... I thought that's what I want. No, no, you don't get to interrupt this. Oh, I'll interrupt this. Hey, this is progress. This is a profound thought. This is progress. I wish Missy was here. Embrace... I don't see you sweat for a little bit. Well, then it would be a kind of tag team thing. That'd get weird, you know? That would be my dream podcast. The title would be Tag Team Wrestling. But I was thinking, you know,

The Israelites, for your example, they were seeking food. They were starving. He provides the food. Then all of a sudden, that's not what they want anymore. They want something better. We're always shifting. And we're shifting based on what the culture is showing us is the next best thing. Or, well, now I need a husband. Now I need kids. Now I need the house and the white picket fence and all this list of things. And we shift what we seek so often. But if we just stop...

And think to ourself, maybe I don't know what I need or want. Maybe I need to let the Lord show me. Yeah, that's good. And when I do that, usually what I thought I wanted...

That's not even someone to want. It's almost like a light switch comes on. Yeah. Because that's exactly what they did. They got the manna, and it's like, well, manna's great, but if we had some meat, we need some meat. I mean, we would really have a meal. They need this so much quail. It said it was just in their teeth. It was so much, and they were like, well, what good is it without water to wash it down with? I mean, it was always more. Always something. Always something. I think I figured it out. I mean, y'all can...

Tell me if I'm wrong. But I've been reading this for about a week. It seems like it's a week since I've seen you. Has it been a week? It's been a week, Dad. Yeah, I've been reading this. We do this every week. I've been reading this for a week. You know, you think you know these passages, and you read them, and you read them, and all of a sudden, a light switch comes on. So they brought up your point. I want to read what you mentioned. Because he does this miracle.

And he takes what? Was it two fish and five loaves? Two fish, five loaves. Basically a happy meal for their culture. So then you have the walking on the water, which the story of that should have come out. Remember, they were doing like an investigation into how they saw the boat leave with the disciples. Yeah.

But they're like, well, Jesus wasn't with them. And then they show up around the lake, and then they're like, how are you here? The whole thing is like an interrogation. That was one of their questions, by the way. Oh, they have so many. It's the first time I was going to talk about that when we get into this detail.

Because you have three questions in here that Jesus asked, but you have way more in this instance that they're asking, and they ask the dumbest, the most horrible question. And the reason we haven't read it yet, because if you just are looking for this, they are the most missed-the-point questions. It basically illustrates what you said, what they're seeking by their questions is,

is obvious and it's obviously terrible. They're missing his point. At every turn, he makes a statement and they ask a dumb question. He makes a statement, they ask two dumb questions.

Then they'll give a little, you know, a little detail like justification for why they asked the questions. Now that's stupid. Yeah, they're playing checkers and Jesus is playing 4D chess. So I think I figured this out and you're going to like this. What's the name of your podcast again? Not yet. Not yet. I knew that. I just wanted you to say it.

Subscribe if you haven't. Well, that's three shameless plugs, and I ate it in a bed of that one. But watch what they say. They bring up this, you know, after they confront him. And just to give you a little bit of the history there, you know, in verse 25, they found him on the other side of the lake. They said, when did you get here? Jesus answered, no.

He didn't answer their question. He says, I tell you the truth, you're looking for me not because you saw miraculous signs, but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Well, the question was, when did you get here? He's like, the reason you're looking for me is you want some of that bread and fish. So he actually answered a question that they didn't ask is what happened. Oh, no, that goes to your point, Jill. He's thinking at a little deeper level.

So then he says, do not work for food that spoils. Of course, I'm sure their minds were reeling because I'm sure that bread was good since it was made from heaven. Yeah, the ultimate baker, the one who created everything that went into the bread. Yeah, exactly. And had your fill, do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life. We set the precedent right there for what he was going to talk about him being the bread, which the Son of Man will give you.

I'm going to give you. That's a key phrase. I'm going to give this to you. On him, himself, God the Father has placed his seal of approval. So he's like, you know, I'm with the Father. Well, then they asked, well, look at the dumb question here. Well, what must we do to do the work God requires us?

So you say, where are they getting that question? Well, they got the question when he said 27, do not work for food that spoils. So he said, work for food that endures to eternal life. But watch what they missed this part, which the Son of Man will give you. I'm going to give this to you.

You need to work for that. So they're like, well, what must we do to do the work God requires? Jesus answered, the work of God is this, to believe in the one he sent, the one who's going to give it to you. That is the work. They're like, well, that's not work.

I can't check that off. I can't make myself feel good about it. I need a word. Yeah, so this gets worse because they're like, well, he didn't answer the question. What are you talking about, believe? Believe in you? You're just a man. And that goes to the next stage, which Al already talked about. So they asked him, well, what miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you?

Terrible question. As if what he's already been doing is not enough. We just had two pretty major signs. He fed 10,000 people with a Happy Meal. Come on. And he actually walked across the sea when everybody else was in a boat. And you're confused with how the hookup happened. Because I'm sure somebody said, yeah, he just walked.

You know how it's like, come on, ride with us. No, I'll walk. Kind of what happened to you, you know. Come fly with me. No, I'll tell you what, I'll just drive. Well, boys, you know what's coming right around the corner. Does anybody know? I know. What is it? April 15th. April 15th. It's tax day. It's not your birthday, Jace. It's tax day. Yeah. Do you have unfiled tax returns or maybe you can't pay the IRS? The IRS, I'm going to tell you right now, they're aggressive. Mm-hmm.

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Just drive. You just drive. It's 11 hours. I mean, what? Zach like walked on water to get here. I drove the party bus. Wow. We got to move on. We really do. Jesus paid for it, y'all. Come on. So then look, then another question. What will you do?

Not only did they say, you know, what kind of sign? Well, what will it be? We want a specific sign. Now, then they throw this in. Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert. As it is written, he gave them bread from heaven to eat. So now why would they just bring this up? Because obviously they know what happened back here on the grass. Yeah. Why are you bringing this up? Right.

So they must just think it's a trick. It was some sort of trick. How did they get that much? How did he pull that off? Right. So show us another trick to validate the one that you just did. And I love that they're dropping a little book, chapter, and verse on Jesus. Think about what Paul says. He says the Jews demand everything.

miraculous signs and the gentiles demand wisdom or intellectual argument yeah but we but we preach christ and crucified so he's paul's acknowledging kind of this spirit of what you're no i i agree now look look what his answer was i tell you the truth it is not moses who has given you look this word give keeps coming up in this whole chapter over and over and over

who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who, see, I told you it keeps coming up, who gives you the true bread from heaven, for the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven

Here it is again. And gives life to the world. Now, I wanted to read that because he then picks up the thing with the manna later on. But do you know what I found fascinating, which I said, I think I kind of figured this out, is there's a phrase also mentioned. Now, give is in here a lot. From heaven is mentioned.

10 times in this chapter. This came from heaven. And give, when give is used, I do want to note this, it's present tense. Yeah. It's like happening. Yeah. I think that's important. So I just thought, you know, most of the time when you hear the word heaven, it's in a context of I can't wait to go. Mm-hmm.

And we have a phrase 10 times in one chapter, in one conversation. You're like, surely it can't be 10. 10 times. This came from the man. You remember the man? That came from... God's argument was through Jesus here. It wasn't Moses who gave you that. It was my father. The same one who's given you this current bread of life, what just happened, and then he's eventually going to say...

I am the bread of life from heaven. But it goes back, look, to the same theme in John 3. But you remember when John the Baptist, he figured this out, same concept, in 327. Remember when they were having the argument about who was baptizing more, John or Jesus' disciples, that just happened to come up after this conversation about being born again? Yeah.

And the conversation with Nicodemus, remember when he said in verse 12 of chapter 3, I have spoken to you of earthly things, and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? This heaven and earth seems to have a theme here, beginning in Genesis 1. Yeah. It said, in the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth. And now here's Jesus bringing it together. Yeah.

Revelation what? 21? Yeah. So watch what John says. He uses the same argument Jesus made, which I think is fascinating. Verse 27, to this John replied, a man can receive only what is, here's that word again, given him from heaven. I think we've stumbled upon a theme in the book of John. You yourselves can testify that I'm not the Christ, but I'm sent ahead of him.

So he's like, whatever my role was, it came from heaven and I did my job. The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. Look, that joy is mine and it's now complete. He must become greater. I must become less. And then he gets into the same speech. The one who comes from above...

So it doesn't say heaven, but I think that's what it was talking about. Mine says heaven. He who comes from heaven is above all. Yeah, it's a better translation because it's the same word. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. So three chapters later, you're seeing this being lived out.

Here's Jesus from heaven, which is interesting when they're like, well, how'd you get here? It would have been a perfect opportunity to say, well, you know, here's how I got here. I actually came through a virgin. Yeah. Of course, they're going to be like, they're not even believing what they're seeing here. So I think it's a fascinating thing.

that's used over and over that puts what he's going to say in the proper perspective. It's more than fascinating. I would say that it is core central truth to understanding the kingdom.

If you think about what this podcast, our podcast is called Not Yet Now because it's about the kingdom of God being not yet here, but it is here now. It's here now, but not fully here. But why does it matter? Everything Jace just said, because I do want to sit in this for a minute because I think this is the key. Well, it's 10 times in the chat. I mean, just think about how many rare times it is. But it flies in the face of how most Christians have grown up thinking about heaven. Yeah.

We're directionally challenged when we think about heaven. We think it's us going there.

And this world is not my home, as we used to sing. I'm just passing through. My treasures, they're laid up somewhere beyond the blue. They're way out there. It's way out there. But what the scripture says here is for the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven. So the direction is actually the opposite. We're not going to heaven. Heaven's coming to us and gives life to the world.

Not death. Christ comes and brings life to the world. This is not an escape hatch plan. This is not how we're going to get off planet Earth. Planet Earth is going to be redeemed. This will change the way you see everything because now everything has more significance. It's not the world's going to hell in a handbasket. It's that God's going to redeem the world.

He's going to, I mean, the whole physical universe. Well, that he is. He is redeeming the world. He is redeeming, present tense. And there'll be a moment when we're like Elijah, he opens our eyes. Like when he opened Elijah's eyes and he sees the angel army, he's just going at it. Oh, exactly. You know, why do we think that that stopped? Why do we think that that was just for that moment in time? It's crazy. And we talk about him being the latter.

You read a verse earlier, Jace, in 27, when he said, on him, God, the Father has placed his seal of approval. It's interesting because on my deep dive, looking at this word seal, it's the same word used in Greek word used in Matthew 27, when the seal was put on the tomb by the Romans. In other words, you can't crack this. But listen to this. It's the same word here where you were just reading in John 3, verse

In verse 33, the man who has accepted him, talking about Jesus, it, has certified, that's the same word, the seal, that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives his spirit without limit.

And so the same idea comes because a lot of us say, well, how does heaven come to earth? Well, Jesus came and brought heaven to earth. Then he went back, but he sent his spirit to live in us. So that's why when you get over to Ephesians 1 that says we have the spirit as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance, the deal is you're living that now.

You're just awaiting the final step. Think about it. It's not yet now. People who have a bad understanding of this might say something like, I heard a preacher one time say, I can't wait to get out of this meat suit. Talking about his own body. Like it's a meat suit. Just like, you know, I'm like, but, but,

but Jesus incarnates into a body. That means something. God became king in a body. He was in a body. So this physical bread matters. The physical universe matters. God is coming in. He's breaking into our world, and he's making all things right.

To me, that is a gospel that will preach because I grew up hearing only the gospel of death, meaning Jesus died to save me from my sin. And that was it. Yeah. And? And what? And he gave himself for the life of the world. Yes, died for my sins so that I may live and have life and life abundantly. Al, you came to Christ. One of the key moments was my mom died.

you somewhere. Do you remember where it was? Camp Chioka. Camp Chioka. So for us, our family, camp's always been a big part. Christian camps, working with kids. What I loved about your mom was she was willing to invest into me. She knew as a kid, my future, what I was going to need, especially in the circumstance I was in. So I love that about your mom.

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We've left off the life part. We just left it off. And we wonder why so many young people are just like, well, we said, I think we leave off the life part a lot of times because life is hard. There are things that happen.

here, sicknesses, death, all of that, that is hard. So sometimes I feel we fear speaking so much life because yes, there is so much hurt. There is hurt happening, but there will be a point in time when that is no more. And that's the not yet. That's the not yet. And talking about the seal, I couldn't help but think of, you know, we adopted Ruth and she has this whole powerful adoption story, but I'll never forget the day that

those adoption papers came in the mail with that seal, that state seal that was like, this is, this is official. This is official. This is permanent. And, and I remember just being just so just like, thank you, Lord. But I kept thinking about that seal of the spirit in my life. It's like a live and active seal. Hmm.

Like the spirit that's in us, it's not just a guarantee in one moment. It is a moment by moment by moment. I mean, I can always tap into that. Yeah. And that's when God shows me more of what, shows me what I seek more.

And leads me to seek what he wants me to seek. And to the degree that I believe him, I'm experiencing life abundantly, even through difficult stuff. That's why you see people that go through...

terrible things and you hear them talk about the peace God gave them through that. And I'm just like, I can't comprehend that, but that's the spirit. Yeah. It's the, it's the dealing with death is hard when we talk about like the, our particular eschatology, it's hard to talk about it because there is pain and suffering. You know, one side you've got, like I remember sitting in front of these college kids when we were doing college ministry here at ULM. And I thought,

My thought was, I'm sitting here looking at 18-year-old kids. And at the time, I'm like, I'm going to tell them, come to Jesus.

grind out a pretty miserable life. Don't do anything fun for about 60 years. 60 more years. And hope you make it. Probably lost them when you said eschatology. I wouldn't have said that. If I'd have been 17 and heard that, I wouldn't have said that. I'm out. He didn't have that word back then. Does he use that just in y'all's private conversations? Yes. Does he? Do you ever just say... No. Did I just hear crickets? Yeah, we did that on purpose. Because every...

Jill doesn't know about the roast she got. I should have told you before you came on, Jill. See, when he says things like that, crickets just appear. There are times where we're having coffee in the morning. No one's around. It's just me and him having coffee. And he'll throw some word out. And I'm...

What is that? Can you just say it? We need to get you one of these. We got one of the biggest arguments we got into when I used the phrase, all of that discourse. People are going to think we have a really bad marriage because any time I'm on here, we're talking about a fight. We love each other. It's fine.

We have to relate to the masses, Joe. This is the way other people talk. Well, what I was going to say before we got sidetracked there is that you tell a college kid –

60 years, grind it out, and then you get to go to heaven. I mean, that's a tough sell. That's when I began to really start thinking about, man, is there more to the gospel than just, hey, man, grind it out for 60 years. And then, and what we learned in college ministry is that by the time these kids came to us, I mean, they had tried everything under the sun. I mean, it's like a different world now than what we grew up in. They had tried everything under the sun.

and they were miserable, and they were searching, and they needed a reference. They needed connection. They needed intimacy. They had no context for what life could be like now in Christ. So that was the one side of it. But the other side of it is then you preach that, and people who are going through a tough time are like, man, I'm dealing with the death of my mom or something. And that's difficult to deal with. But there's actually a book, one of my favorite books,

talks about this. It's actually written on this verse. It's about this verse for the life of the world. Jesus gave him his flesh for the life of the world. The whole book is written on that topic. And he says that death, the way we deal with death as Christians, we don't

We don't say death doesn't matter. We mourn at the grave. We cry at the grave. Jesus wept at the grave of Lazarus. Why? Because what we're saying is we're saying that this is not the way that the world should be. And it's not the way the world will be. Christ is going to redeem. And all the things that you feel in your mourning and in your sorrow and in your pain, that's actually a testimony.

of the way that God wants to bring heaven to earth, and one day that will be gone. In this section, N.T. Wright used an illustration that Jay's probably skipped over that was really, really... I don't read the illustration. He doesn't read the illustration. But it was so good because he talked about this doctoral student that was working on his dissertation,

And at the very last chapter he was writing for the dissertation, he said he had to go to these art galleries and comment on these artists. And so he was just running through and getting their names and information on each one. And he never...

appreciated the art of what these people did. And he mentioned that in the context of these people, that when you miss Jesus, you miss the art of who he is and what he does, which I thought was so good. And it reminded me of when I was up at a gallery in Alaska, this guy that had donated some money to One Kingdom. And so we went up to visit him. And I was just, man, I was looking at all this beautiful, like,

he had painted from Alaska, just Mount McKinley and the Northern Lights and all this beautiful stuff. And I came across this painting that looked like it was Alaska if it was in hell. It was just like on fire and it was the same land pieces, but it was like, and I thought, what is this? And I'm looking around and nothing else was like it. And I looked down at the bottom and the name of the painting was Through the Fires of Pain. Wow.

And he told me later when I asked him, I said, what about that one that looked like Alaska and hell? He said, that was one of the roughest times of my life. He said, but that's where I saw God the most. Not as much in the beauty of everything I see every day, but he said, I saw him through the fires of pain. And I thought, that's the beauty of what you miss if you miss Jesus. I think that's the point of the whole Bible. Because everybody, I would say, the number one question on why there's no God is how come there's so much suffering and evil in the world?

And that's what this is about. That's why he sent Jesus. That's why he sent those who surrendered Jesus, his spirit. That's why you see the church of the living God move into these bad situations health-wise or...

demonic was or sin was and we're offering peace and joy. Yeah, because if you think about that pain, I haven't had that. I've had objections with God before my life and I was probably... You were offended at God? I have been offended at God. Yeah, that's why I asked you the question, does this offend you? And I've also felt...

I had a lot of questions. Is he real? That's why I got into, honestly, all the big words because I needed... I studied a lot of philosophy and apologetics. For me, that was very helpful. But I'll say this, that I never really struggled with the problem of evil is what that term is.

because when I think about, when I really think about the pain of losing someone you love, like my mom or even watching Phil, that hurts. You know what I mean? And when I think about that, why does that hurt? What is that? What is that pain? I mean, what is that pain? Why would you care? If there is no God, why would I even care? I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care. We're all just...

propagating one's DNA, as Richard Dawkins says. That's the sole purpose of life, is pitiless indifference. Evolution, strong and survive. But I know in my soul,

That's not true. Even if I believe that intellectually, even if I, which I don't, but even if I did believe that intellectually, guess what? In my soul, there is something in me that's testifying. Nope, that's not true. And I can't explain it. I can't defend it. There's no apologetic for it. I'm just telling you something, something in me. And when I say in me, I mean deep in me at the very core and the center of my being says, nope, there's more.

There's more and they matter. I mean, that's a testament to God. That means heaven has come to earth. And that also means we're out of time. That went fast. Well, that was just an introduction. Yeah, that was the intro. So we may see if we can talk you into staying to the meaty part of this. Well, I was going to talk about the reverse is also true, that life, when you see a baby come into the world,

the same thing. Just like, we'll talk. I've seen them. I've seen, I've seen a few babies coming to the world. Let's pick that up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.