Ep 886 | Miss Kay Literally Lights Up Phil’s Life & Jase Almost Throws Hands in Preaching School
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So we're always been proud of our K-Love Awards, Jace. This is the first trophy I think I've ever gotten, especially as an adult, because we were the podcast of the year last year. And Zach, we're super excited because The Blind has been nominated for the K-Love Fan Award Film of the Year award.

in the film impact category. So that'll make you feel good. Yeah. And what's really cool is, uh, Sadie's hosting this year with Brandon Lake and she's also nominated. Her podcast is nominated for podcast of the year. Awesome. And she's already won it once. Yeah. Well, the elephant, the elephant in the room is that we didn't get nominated. So, uh,

That does need to be dealt with. I will have to say. I'm not sure what happened there. But I feel like since we've got two entries, we're probably doing pretty good. I think they don't let you win back-to-back. But, hey, look, if she wins, that means that the Robertson family will have won 100% of the K-Love Fan Awards for the podcast this year.

of the year award. So look, we wouldn't have never won the award and the movie success wouldn't be there without you guys. So we want you to get involved in this. You've been a lot of fun doing this before. Klovefanawards.com.

is where you go. And voting is going to be happening from now through Friday, May 24th at six o'clock central. So there's not a lot of time to get this done. Klovefanawards.com and vote for the blind in the film impact category. And of course we support Sadie, so vote for her as well. That's Klovefanawards.com. Let's win it again. We'll put that link in the show notes and on YouTube and on the other audio podcasts. Klovefanawards.com. I am unashamed. What about you? I am unashamed.

Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm looking here because I'm at the southern layer. I'm looking at my computer screen and I'm seeing that Dad and Zach have the earth tones. If you're watching today, they've got the darker kind of earth colors. Jason and I, we are saying that spring is here. We're very colorful and bright today.

And we didn't plan this. Jason, it's a good thing I wasn't in the lair because you and I would have looked like we had matching shirts on. You know, I was going to go play golf today after this. So, Phil, at golf courses, you have to wear a collared shirt. That's why you've never seen me on the golf course. I saw you there that one time. Who would be worried about what shirt you're wearing? Yeah. You'd be aware of that?

Oh, there's people. There's people looking. There are groups of people that get together and they come up with rules and they're all based around who belongs. Jace, did you notice that, I don't know if you saw this, at the Masters this year,

They came out on the course, Jason Day, who's, I think he's Australian. His shirt was a bit loud, was the problem. And so they asked him to change shirts or put a jacket on. So he had to wear like a vest. Yeah, that happened this year. There you go, Al.

There you go, Phil. Yeah, that's the rule. That shirt, that means a lot in our culture. It does. Boy, don't miss the right shirt. I mean, got to have it.

Dad has varying degrees of T-shirts with varying degrees of stain, whether they're worthy of public viewing or just for his down there. None of them are white. They're not plain white tees. When your woman goes on the knife bed to get her ailments, take her ailments, have surgery, you'd be surprised. Yeah.

you know, what kind of, what they're wearing. Is anybody watching for you down there? And they've even asked that question. Are you just out of clothes or has there been a person that helps out with that or?

Probably should have checked on them. I just keep wearing the same clothes until they still get a little smell to them. And you can't smell. That means washing. Well, Phil, you need to. If you looked at a man that's just almost 80 and trying to figure out what type clothes they're going to wear, I just don't get it.

I've been so focused on mom. I apologize, dad. We should have had somebody. I know you've had food because Joe's been cooking, but I didn't even think about your clothes. Phil, I think you should bring back the clothesline. You're already anti-cell phone. You're anti-washing machines. I hate to rare up and seem like a weasel, you know, but with our current culture. But I'll tell you.

Our culture, Jase, for lack of a better term, stinks. Like your clothes. There's an ironic. And I'm telling you, the dress is not going to break it up either. Jase, I want to let you know I'm officially against the clothesline because back when we used to have one that was in between dad and mom's house and then the house I lived in next door, it

that thing was a magnet for purple tail wasp and red wasp. They would make their nest inside those clothesline poles. And I, I was stung on multiple years on multiple occasions walking around that or underneath that clothesline. So a lot of injuries resulted from that. You had the wasp, you had all kinds of encounters that we got in as boys and

On the run? Yeah, you would forget that there was a line somewhere that when you're running so fast and you just wham, wham. It happened so many times. Hence the term clothesline. That's where it came from, dude. That's where it came from, and it was adequately. All I can say is the fruit that is being currently presented today

Coming out of guys y'all's age with your faith in the gospel, God, y'all did well to come out of your background. You did very well. Borderline miraculous. Yeah. At least supernatural. I've seen a lot of family structures, but a lot of them are disjointed. It's just a mayhem, but not with y'all.

Y'all stayed the course. Well, and that goes back to generations. But that's a great point, Dad, and I appreciate you saying that because generational blessings are far better than generational curses. I'm just going to say that. That is right. It's a straight out statement. It's way better to have generation after generation that tries and attempts to do the right thing. You bet. And you try to teach that as it goes along. Well, you can't sweat the little stuff, you know.

I was talking before we came on air because Phil and I are actually functioning as bachelors at this particular time of our life. And I was saying that, you know, because it's been nice because I don't have to for the last three days.

I haven't had to close the curtains where I sit on the couch and I hadn't had to turn down the thermostat on the air because for about, I guess, I've been married almost 34 years. I open the curtains. I mean, my wife opens the curtains. I close them. She turns up the thermostat. I turn it down.

And I tried to discuss it on a couple of occasions, but the conversation became too volatile. So I just thought, you know what? Don't sweat the little stuff. It's just part of my existence on a daily basis. I'm going to turn down that thermostat only to have to do it again.

And I'm going to have to close those curtains where I'm sitting. So the sun is not glaring. I'm giving some, some keys to life. Yeah. And you don't, you're not holding it against you. See, that's the difference. You're not holding it against you. You're just saying, okay, that's what we're going to do. There's no remorse or, Oh, I'm going to get you. It's just, I just thought, okay, this is, this is the way it is. And it's only a couple of seconds a day.

And this is just who we are. I'm not going to sweat the little stuff. I'm just going to go by. I think that's common. I think that's a common issue. I mean, our house, it's the thermostat. There's two issues. One, the lights. Jill likes to have the lights on for aesthetic purposes, but I'm like, there's nobody in the house to see it. So let's turn them off. So I'll go turn them all off. She turns them back on. And the other one is...

is that they'll have the heat on downstairs and the air conditioning on upstairs. And so that really...

That one gets me. I think I see in the situation in your house, Zach, it's aesthetics versus economics for you. Because you're thinking we're wasting money by counteracting ourselves. But I'm sweating it. So I haven't got to the point where I'm not sweating it yet, Josh. Oh, yeah. You'll get there. So I'm older. What's weird is this is not only to genders. Because in my house, the lights are the opposite.

She likes turning the lights off, and I flip them on. I mean, it just, of course, I'm usually studying. So she's like, well, you can use the light on your phone.

She actually said that one time. I thought, you know, we have these. Look, when you go into my house, Al, in the living quarters, how many lights are there? I mean, I bet there's 50. It's a lot of illumination. Why? Because we have these little bitty lights in the ceiling. I'm like, why would we have all these? If your woman is taken from you.

Mine has been taken from me. So sick, if they get sick on you or they need health care, I mean, then you're there to run the show. The show, 99% of the time, you pull over there now and walk inside my house. It's just nothing. I mean, it's just quiet. There's no...

Me and the dogs, and they don't even do much. They're looking around me saying, I don't know, something's happened. When she rolls out, when she rolls in, she came down yesterday, and she had her little roller walking, you know, getting her legs a little strength, doing better for the people who might wonder about it. But she's got a little...

rollers she rolls she's getting up and down by herself so i'm taking care of my woman i never had done that to that this degree yeah well that's good that you're doing that well and she she's uh she's been convalescing uh in our neighborhood because it's easier access for the

physical therapy and occupational therapy people. That's why she hadn't gotten home yet because mom and dad live so far out. But she is definitely improving. Her spirits are up. She's ready to be home. There's no doubt about that. My light bill, whatever it is, my light bill, it took a nosedive like you ain't seen lately. I mean, all devices that give you light,

That's down to total darkness. There's not a light going. I said, we could save thousands of dollars if we did like this. But when she showed up, everything started lighting up. It's been kind of comical, Dad, because her sister, who's eight years older than Mom, A&M, she came to, and I'm saying this in air quotes if you're listening, she came to help out.

And I've noticed what happens is when you have the, uh, person you're taking care of and our older sister comes to help take care of her. We now have two, uh, older women to take care of. Uh, she, she's, she is now we have a squared term. It begins to become, uh,

rubbing you the wrong way. Well, it's just another factor in our household. So I tell you who I've been feeling a little bit sorry for is one Jay Stone.

From the duck call room. He's in a trance sitting over there. He walks in. If somebody's sitting in his chair, he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. He's been forced out of his own house. And so I see him just sitting on the back porch, Dad. I appreciate it. That's where she camped out for the convalescent with somebody else, not me.

Anna has been a trooper through the whole process. So we're glad that she's been there, but mom's improving. I know you guys have been asking a lot of questions about it. Thanks for the prayers and all the concerns and unashamed nation. She's on her way back. I tell her every day, let's say mom, every time she does something great and, you know, hits another goal. I said, you're getting closer to getting home, getting to your poochies and dad. So now she's coming out for visits, which is great.

But, yes, it's been a family that has to put everything together. I never had thought about it until I became one of the victims of years. I never had thought about it. You know, what would happen if your woman, well, if I got a dose of it for about two months, she just disappeared. But now she can come down a time or two a week, get on her walker and go around. So she's coming out of it.

She was trying to figure out, you know, what she needed to cook me a meal. My meals dried up. Old Jersey come through over, you know, he got them under both arms.

Put some for me, you know, so I'm still eating well. I mean, I have my own chef. You've got a personal chef, an Italian chef. Yeah, Italian chef. Italian Cajun fusion. Yeah. And his meals are downright delicious. He's very good at what he does. All those years in the firehouse. Yesterday we showed him the advantages and the way it works with fruit that we gather from the woods.

I don't know how to make jelly, how to turn the fruit into jelly. So yesterday, I invited him down. It was pretty well one, two, three go. And we started. It was about... Did he write it down or did he just watch? He was watching. And within two or three batches, I mean, he was there. The exact amount of...

the exact amount of, you know, what's the stuff? The sure gel? Yeah, sure gel, all that. You know how much he put in there. I mean, so he just fell right in there. And he probably stood there for, we made jelly for about two and a half, three hours. Did you sample it after it was over? Yes.

You best believe I did. In Jersey, I went up there. He had cooked for me the evening before. So he had some rolls kind of cooked out there, you know. So I heated them up, put the Mayhall jelly on some of them, the first jar, went down and showed him. I said, that's what it's going to taste like, what you're doing.

And he started eating. He said, that has got to be the best fruit on the planet. Well, now that he's family, Dad, we'll turn the, maybe next year we can turn the jelly making over to him.

So just like back during the pandemic, today we're facing some drug and medical supply shortages in the U.S. As of March, there were more than 200 drug shortages here, and it's looking like it's going to get worse before it gets better. Healthcare experts have pointed to shortages, domestic production, the Drug Supply Chain Security Act,

uh things we need to look for and we need to be ready and it could just be because the medication you're taking could be a trip i know zach you guys do mission trips uh it's it's definitely an advantage to you to be able to have uh life-saving antibiotics when you go on one of your trips no questions jill jill got something that we affectionately call montezuma's revenge and it was uh

Pretty severe. She needed Cipra, I think was the antibiotic she needed and did not have access to it. And so it was a little difficult to get all that taken care of. And you also don't know in some of these places what antibiotics you're getting. So take that with you. For us, you know, that's key. So our friends at Jace Medical, Zach, have what you need. It's called the Jace Case, which is five life-saving antibiotics for emergency use.

And all you have to do is fill out a form online and you'll have it there when you need it. They have dozens of add-on options as well beyond just those five. EpiPens, ivermectin, things that you're going to need. Go to JaceMedical.com and enter the code UNASHAMED at checkout for a discount on your order. That's the promo code UNASHAMED at J-A-S-E-Medical.com. JaceMedical.com. Use the code UNASHAMED. Check them out.

He was making jelly, just getting it like he'd been there for 100 years. Yeah. So it was a jelly-making adventure there yesterday. It went well. We got them all ready to go. I gave him a good rack of it, you know. He's brushing some of the stuff that he bakes and stuff. He brushed it with a...

Yeah, the jelly. The fruit, the jelly. Yeah. He was showing what it would taste like, and I mean, it was fine. That's a new thing that chefs are doing all around the country is you add sweet onto your savory meats and whatnot, and it's really, really good. And Mayhall, I don't think anybody's probably ever thought about Mayhall jelly, but it makes a fantastic glaze. It does. So all that went well. So other than that,

I'm looking at this book of Acts and about eight times, Philip, let's see, eight times. And the one that headed it up, what do we do? God has made this Jesus whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. When the people heard it, they were cut to the heart. So what do you, how do you view somebody that's cut to the heart when they're being told the gospel about Jesus? Brothers, what shall we do?

What do we do now? Because we're sorry we didn't know we were killing the Son of God. Repent, Peter said, repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus, so that you may be forgiven and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That's laid out on the second page in the book of Acts. And my question is, where did we get the idea that they shouldn't have faith in Jesus?

And they need to repent and be baptized. Because from there, about 10 times in the book of Romans, I mean, in the book of Acts, it comes up. I just think, you know, across the board, people take that too lightly. And I'm glad you got us back to Acts, Dad, because we left off.

With Paul's journey, we had finally got to a story with a Philippian jailer because when he was in Philippi, he wound up not having kind of his usual way of doing business. So he wound up with these women down at the riverbank who really became the first house church there in Philippi. And I'm sure that the jailer and his family who had obeyed Christ –

And they become believers. Yeah, when the Apostle Paul talked to Ananias over there,

Right in the middle of all that, he said, he sent me that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit. That's what Ananias told him. Immediately, something like, and this is the one who we're going to look at over in Acts chapter 13 and 14 in there. Immediately, something like scales, just think about this, fell from Saul's eyes. So he's got scales on his eyes.

And he's blanked out. He got up, well, you know, and was baptized. And after taking some food, he got up, he was hungry. He was starving to death at the same time. He regained his strength. He was in a bad way. And he talked about it at the conversion. But it ended amazingly, to prove my point, he was baptized. So when we run into the various people in our days,

That's what I tell them. I tell them what Saul, what Paul went through. I think it's a powerful thing. It is. What he does now, he's going to move on from Philippi. We get to Acts 17, which is where we're going to be today. And I did a little bit of research on it. Philippi is about 100 miles.

from Thessalonica. So it's a pretty good little track. And, you know, he mentions, it says in verse one, when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica and there is a Jewish synagogue that's there. And I looked at it on the mileage and assuming he went straight through, that's, you know, Paul and company are walking about 30 to 35 miles a day.

to get from city to city to city. And time is beginning to show up. I mean, I couldn't have done it, but y'all did. Thessalonica was founded in 315 B.C.,

Yeah. You gave a little, I'm glad you put that in there because we, we kind of failed to see that the time is one, two, three, four. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's really getting out there from when Jesus was there. It's getting further and further out. You see what I'm saying? Yep. And Jay's, it's a lot like Philippi because the general Cassander of Alexander, the great is the one who found it. That's on Ica.

And it was really interesting because, you know, you remember the story later about Julius Caesar and Octavia and all the back and forth on the, you know, all the intrigue of that. Well, this guy was involved right in the middle of that, and this city was involved in the middle of that because you had to pick a side. You mentioned there was a warded, when he was talking about Thessalonica,

They were rewarded with freedom from taxes and allowed self-rule. Well, that was a big, there was some major things going on. Well, and it really is crucial, Zach, is what do they say? The people who win the wars are the ones who write the history. They're also the ones who get the spoils. And that's what happened in this city. I thought that was a very important thing for that culture because I'm looking at ours. Right.

All these years later. And it also is going to show you some of why the, you know, just like we talked about in Philippi, why some of the cultural things are there. And eventually after we read some of this, this text, I wanted to even go to Thessalonians because I,

When Paul writes a letter to him, he's addressing some of these same issues that we've been talking about, you know, that are there. Let me read this section and then we can talk about it. Is that part of the Saul's synagogue strategy to preach the gospel? That was the strategy of the whole thing, which is amazing. And it's where you find local core to begin a church ministry.

which is what have to be. A lot of people just miss those small things like that. That comes, becomes, they are large thing. Yeah. And you make a good point because what he's doing is, is he's trying to, to build a little troop. Every city goes into a people he can depend on. Cause Paul knows he's got to leave. I mean, he's moving on. Nothing has changed by the way, when, from reading this to current day, modern day on how you would build a church. That's right.

You've got to find some like-minded believers. You've got to have a little troop there to work with. I mean, that's pretty much what Zach has done in his community. Is that a fair way of saying, Zach? I mean, you had a troop of people who now are impacting your immediate surroundings and your culture. And it does bear fruit. It bears fruit. Yeah, but there's more mentions of house churches in the Bible than any other.

That's right. That's how he's a mess. You read the end of every letter after Acts, and when you get to the end, it's like, greet the church that meets at their house and greet the church that meets at this house, which I think is interesting. If we're not careful, we can tend to go back to the same thing.

dilemma that was going on here in Acts that Paul and all for that matter, Jesus and Stephen, they all keep saying the same thing that God's not in. He's not, he's not confound to the temple or to the building, to the, you know, the structure. That's why, but, but it's interesting that when Paul goes into Thessalonica and then Berea and then Athens, uh,

The places that he goes is into the synagogues. So he goes to the synagogue. He goes to meet with them in Thessalonica. And this is, I would say, I would add this other thing that's necessary to start a church is the scriptures. Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days, he reasoned with them from the scriptures in

explaining and proving that it was necessary for Christ to suffer and rise from the dead. So you have him going in, meeting with Jewish people, using the Hebrew scriptures to make the case for Christ. He does that in Thessalonica. He does it in Berea in verse 10 of chapter 17. He does it in Athens. And you didn't need a structure. You didn't need a structure.

He didn't need it, but that's where they thought everything was in the structure. And not just the Jews, but also the Greeks, because then he moves into the Areopagus in verse 22. And in verse 24, he makes the point to them that God's not in your temples. He doesn't live in temples that were made by human hands. It's an important thing. It's very important. I pulled a prank on Missy last Sunday when we were in Nashville. Because on our way...

to meet where my son and his wife meet. I saw a big, nice building. Of course, I was just Sunday. I'm checking out the people coming in. And there was this huge sign in front of it. It said, The Lord's House. Huge! So I slowed down. Missy's like, What are you doing? I said, I'm going to try to ask somebody about that on the way by.

She's like, why? I was like, because they have that attached to the building that says the Lord's house. I just want to ask them about it. Of course, I was just kidding. She was like, do not start an argument in the church parking lot of somewhere we're not meeting. I just want to hear why would you put that sign there?

Don't sweat the small stuff is what she was telling you. Yeah. Live to see another day. But I mean, it is, but we do see, I mean, I think it's, um, I don't think it's wrong to have a big building, but I do think that we grew up thinking, uh,

that there's something special about the actual building of the, and it's not, I mean, it's, it's the old, um, you know, we did that thing where we're kids where you put your, your fingers together and it's, here's the church and here's the steeple. And then you open up your hands and there's all the people. Yeah. But, but so the truth is that the church is, is the people and it's in the church can meet in homes. The church can meet in a field. The church can meet in a cave. The church can meet in a building. The church can meet, um,

I mean, the church can meet anywhere, but we put so much emphasis on the structure of it and even the tax status of the church. But it's like the church is a lot more viral than something that's –

It's not needed, and it's a lot cheaper way to roll. I didn't have a problem with the buildings. I had a problem with the sign saying the Lord's house. Hebrews 3, 4, for every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Verse 6 of chapter 3, Hebrews, but Christ is faithful as a son over God's house,

And we are his house if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast. There it is. Why would you put that sign there? Misunderstanding. Based on what I just read. Misunderstanding. I mean, I'll give you another one if you want it, but I think that one's enough.

Zach, would you say as your family grows, gets larger, that time is probably one of your most precious commodities? Oh, it may be the rarest of commodities outside of peace that Phil talks about. The

The peace of mind. Peace of mind and plenty of time. So one of our sponsors, Hillsdale College, talks about time being that precious commodity and how that when you have time, you want to be able to spend it wisely to improve yourself. And so that's what they do. They offer the ability to study, to learn more, whether it's history, economics, great works of literature, U.S. Constitution, et cetera.

Probably a lot of stuff you missed when you were younger, when you were in school. Now you have maybe some time and some opportunity to grow your mind. You're not going to find it on television. We were talking about John Godwin recently on the podcast. John told me that he has signed up.

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Hillsdale.edu slash unashamed to register. That's Hillsdale.edu slash unashamed. Also, Jace, I would say most of the conflict we have in the modern church is

comes from what goes on inside the building all the time. I mean, most of the fighting and the splitting and the dividing, it's all over. Somebody called it the magic hour. Yeah. It was the, it's the, it's the hour on Sunday morning, which I think does matter. And I, and I probably have erred on the side of diminishing that, but more than I should have, but it, but the emphasis that we put on what happens in the building is,

In that particular space, man, what if we put that same amount of energy and effort into focusing on what goes on the rest of our life? You know, it'd be it'd be a we would live a lot different lives and we probably would experience a much greater degree of spiritual formation into the image of Christ if we if we flip the emphasis and put.

more emphasis on the rest of the week in our daily life. I taught a cricket sermon one time. There has to be room for the elders, the deacons. There is some... I think I did this at school, maybe. It was one of my... We used to get up and give...

What do they call them? Chapels. Yeah, chapel sermons. And so, I mean, just imagine the pressure here. So every student. Chapels were, they just were wrought with danger for the students. Well, yeah, because they're like, here you are trying to inspire people for Jesus that are out of Bible school by giving a sermon, which is what I was trying to do. But all the instructors are sitting on the front row.

you know, this guy just ain't got it, you know, or whatever. I mean, I'm implying that, but Al knows what I mean. Cause, cause if you went off down a rabbit hole that, that they didn't like, you were confronted later in private. Yeah.

So I had many of those confrontations. So I did it. They didn't hold back, Jay, so they just go right. It wasn't like soften the blood. They just came in. There's no soft shoe here. Well, the worst thing I did was I challenged them. We're not a denomination, but boy. Well, the worst thing I did was when I challenged their marketing ploy, they had a little insignia about preach the word.

And it had the Bible there. So I did a deal about the word is Jesus. It became flesh. So you should at least have a figure of a human. Write the Bible, you know, the word. Preach the word. But what I got in trouble for, the illustration I'm going to give here, was I said, you know, it seems like to me if we're going to call this the Lord's house,

Which is, you know, they didn't call it that, but I was saying it's implied because once you walk in, you've entered the sanctuary, the Holy Ghost. So I said, so I think we should make everybody take off their shoes. And now I was doing it seriously, but I was showing by this illustration that

The absurdity of this view. They were looking at each other saying, I need to get him off the game. It's called argumentum absurdum. There's a cricket term. Thank you, Zach. You push the argument to its logical end to show the absurdity of the argument. That's what you were doing. And there was two verses that I gave to prove my point. When the burning bush happened, and you remember the angel of the Lord, which I actually think is Jesus manifesting.

manifesting himself as an angel in that. But we can talk about that. Sometime we need to do a dive on that one because that's an interesting topic. Yeah. And, you know, what was Jesus all about before he became a human? He, I know he was about something, but cause, cause there, it seems like he was receiving worship, but so you're thinking, well, this wasn't an angel.

So anyway, that's a different topic for a different time. But in that case and the case of the marching around Jericho, same thing. It was like, take off your shoes because this is holy ground. Well, why was it holy? Because the presence of God was there. And I was like, so here we are saying, well, the presence of God is here. And the only two instances in the Old Testament that I came up when they were talking about that, they got them shoes off. It was a direct command. Yeah.

I was like, if we're going to take it down that, you know, down that road where some people say, well, you can't eat it. Once you enter, go through a doorway and go into the sanctuary, you can't eat anything except the Lord's Supper. And I always just thought found that fascinating, you know, or you have to take your hat off. I'm like, well, why not go and take your shoes off? Because I have a couple passages about that, you know.

So I was trying to show, and my point was that if you're going into a structure and you're inviting the presence of God in, I think we're missing a lot of passages. If we have the Holy Spirit, the present is here. If we're to the Lord's house five minutes before we walked in. And so I made a point that we should never wear shoes.

So I thought it was a, what was it, Zach, an absurdum? Argumentum absurdum. I thought it was a good argumentum absurdum, but I got called in on the carpet on that. And I'm really not sure what the argument was, but I kept saying God doesn't live in temples. That's all I was saying. You were right. And that's where we're at in Acts 17. He's going to specifically say that. Well, it's funny. Let's take another break.

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It's funny, Jace, because I think our instructors who later became our mentors saw we were rough around the edges, but they saw something in us, but they knew we didn't kind of fit the typical preacher training model.

And I fit it a little bit better than you fit it. But I think in both of us, we were just different. But, hey, we've been able to do a lot of stuff. Was Willie in at the same time you guys were? Willie was a little after us. Yeah.

Now, Willie went ahead and finished off the school because after Willie. He shut the school down one year of Willie, and that was the end of the WFR School of Biblical Study. But back then, I had that spirit of, you know, the Mel Gibson with the Braveheart. Remember when he said, they said, what are you doing? He said, I'm picking a fight.

I had that attitude about everything, you know, because I loved I wanted to argue. That's why I was pulling the prank on Missy. You know, I was acting like I was going to get into some theological debate because I do like to argue. And we were more at it back then. Of course, Zach's always liked it, too. But Jace didn't like our fellow students.

when they took away our little creature comforts, like our little break time, because some of them were a little bit dry, especially in the afternoon. And there was one particular brother that sat down there next to Jace and he loved to ask a, like a penetrating question about,

A minute before break time. And Chase would give the biggest eye rolls you've ever seen to the whole class. Like, oh, this guy. I mean, they almost came to blows. Well, we almost came to blows because I told him to shut up, which I shouldn't have. But I've been sitting there three hours without a break.

One minute before the bell, he asked a question that I thought was ridiculous. And I just said, where only he could hear it, why don't you just shut up and go home and study? So he didn't like that? No, he didn't. So he confronted me after it was over. And then I...

I feel like I'm confessing my sins here. Whatever happened. He may listen to the podcast. He might, because then when he said, hey, I don't appreciate you doing that. And I said, well, you're probably not going to appreciate me giving you the right hand of fellowship unless you back off.

That's what I said. So I took that verse out of context. Jace went from preacher student to Roy D. Mercer in about five seconds. I had about three of those confrontations that I repented over. It's not right to threaten violence, but I did. In Jace's defense, he was 19 years old. So it's not like he was, you know, a lot of us are a lot more brash at 19 than we are in our 50s.

I was raised in a rough environment, and I learned from a certain family member that sometimes you just need to say what you're thinking. And even though I may not be popular, and so I went through a stage of my life where everything I thought, I said.

And it caused a lot of problems. Well, it was lucky for Jace. And here we are still together, Jace, after all these years that I was your wingman because I was pretty diplomatic and knew how to work through the system. So I covered, got Jace through. Anyway, let's get back to the text. We get off on preaching school stories. We'll be here till next week. So, Zach, you described...

The strategy, he comes in the synagogue. Verse four says some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas ads, as did a large number of God fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women. So the strategy is working because he starts with commonality.

Because he knows in the Jewish synagogue, there are going to be some who recognize this idea of the Messiah. And if he can convince them that Jesus really was the Messiah, then he's got, you know, he's got a troop. He's got a house church. He's got a group. But I like how it went outside of just those Jewish males quickly into this Greek culture of prominent women, because they were I mean, in this culture, they were very prominent. Yeah.

in being there. We saw the same thing with Lydia. Yeah, and I think just to reiterate too, we've said this in the podcast a lot, and I think this is another example of it, is that how did he persuade them? He persuaded them with the Hebrew Scriptures. So he's

he's going back to those, those prophets like Isaiah and Ezekiel. And he's, he's explaining to them. He's showing them all of these Psalms 22. He's, he's going back to the old Testament. He said, here's look at the scriptures in this light. And, and I think this is important because there's a little word in here in my translation that says he went as was his custom on, and on three Sabbath days, he,

reasoned with them. Oh boy. And, you know, you think about, we live in a culture that we tend to think that to be a Christian, you have to make this leap of faith into the unknown.

And that is not what the Bible teaches. You're not asked to make a leap into something irrational. Paul used reason to convince people through the scriptures of faith is not a leap into the unknown. It faith is something that has substance to it. Faith is noble. Hebrews 11, uh, says it's, it's, it's assurance. It's, it's confidence. It's anchored. And so I think that's important because you, you see the, the same kind of language when, um,

when they're talking about, was it Hebrews 11 where it says that Abraham reasoned that God could raise Isaac from the dead? And that's why, so the reason why he put his faith in that moment in God was that he used his ability to reason. So you're not asked to jump into a leap of the unknown. And I think that what Christ brings, the scriptures say,

They speak what's called propositional truths, and you can test them to see whether or not they're true or not. So Paul's going in with that kind of framework. He's not saying, hey, take some leap. I know this doesn't make any sense, but just believe it. He's saying, no, here's the reason why you should believe it.

And here, when he's speaking to Jewish people, he's using Scripture. When he goes to the Greeks later on, he uses their own cultural language. He uses some philosophy and apologetics to make the same point. But it's interesting to me that the power of the Scriptures didn't just convince the Jews here. It also says that many of the devout Greeks were convinced as well. Yeah, and the idea spread. Let's take our last break.

In fact, Zach, the Greek word there for reason, dialegami, is where we get the term dialogue from. It means to discuss, converse, argue, and instruct. So obviously there has to be something there to do all that with.

And you're right. It was the content. There's a reason why he kept doing the same thing city after city after city is because it was working. Yeah, it was. It was impacting people. And so, however, however, now I'm not disagreeing, but I am pushing back a little bit on this because I think a lot of people use this chapter and they think, oh, this is our like Zach said, the apologetics section, right?

And I realize it says reason, and mine says explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. And I'm all for it, but I'm saying it was reasoning...

and explaining and proof about Jesus and who he was and his death, burial, and resurrection. Because a lot of people today, they go around to these debate circles and they debate all these issues. Oh, yeah. But it becomes like detached from

from who Jesus is. Yeah, that's a good point. Oh, that's a great point. Okay, well, good. Because I want to say that because I feel like I made a statement one time that the book of Acts is not about apologetics and it's about a declaration that Jesus died and was buried and raised. Yeah. And I was thinking the same thing you did. I came up with a fascinating discovery because, you know, people...

It's like the best illustration I can use for this is a movie that I love called

Nacho Libre has something, there's a line in there that I hate. And I forget the exact phraseology, but it's something like, you don't believe in God and El Skeletor says, I believe in science. And whoever wrote that movie, they tried to contrast that, oh, this is God against science, which is...

I just had a question from a family member who's writing a paper, and they said, basically the question was, I want to read the question exactly like it is, because I didn't even respond because I thought, well, I don't even believe this. What would your response be to someone who thinks the Bible is a human book inspired by God, but it doesn't align with scientific fact?

I was like crickets. And we've made the point that, I mean, God is science. I mean, do we all agree with that? Yeah. So, and this is my point. When you get a question like that, all of a sudden you start getting all these, you know, what is the argument? So I made a fascinating thought because when you think about it, let's just say a group of scientists would say, we're going to go see if it's possible that

for a person to be resurrected. Because the bottom line is when you read Acts 17, what Zach just read, he reasoned with them from the scriptures in verse two, explaining and proving that Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. And then when we get to Athens, you're going to see a similar quote

in verse 31, where it says, For he has said a day when he would judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof. Who? God has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead. Well, you're like, that's quite a statement because Paul is saying God is better than all your gods. In fact,

Your guys are worthless. You know, images made by gold or stone or built. He doesn't live in building. And he's getting proved this by...

raising his son from the dead. So really all of our faith is attached to that. That's why I said all our apologetics need to revolve around the declaration that Jesus is the Son of God and he died and was buried and raised. They were making headway. As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arrival there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now the Bereans were a more noble character than the Thessalonians.

For they received the message with great eagerness, and they were doing something that they all should have been, and examined the scriptures every day. Check this one out. To see if what Paul said was true. Yeah, they were going back saying it was about Jesus. Yep. So my illustration, though, is... So I looked up...

to get back to my point about if scientists were going to try to prove that someone was raised from the dead, well, what would they do? Let's just say they go to a parish and start digging up graves. Well, after a while, they're going to say, we've concluded that people are not coming back from the dead, that they're here. And so then we would counter and say, yeah, but there was one. It happened. A singular event where...

There was a man claiming to be God came back from the dead. And there's a lot of evidence about that. So so then you get in this argument about how do you prove a singular event? And the reason I'm bringing all this up is I looked, looked up, just did a search on the Internet. I was like, what are events that happen only once? And it was fascinating.

The first thing up, they had 11 things that happened only once. And I'm just going to choose one of them, which in 1980, there was a declaration that smallpox had ended. They had eradicated, due to science and execution of said science,

It is the only infectious disease that has ever been eradicated. And do you know how many infectious diseases there are? Thousands. So somebody like me, when I read that, I thought, well, are you sure about that? And look, all of a sudden now I'm on the other side of the argument because all the things they read, this was a noble and profound occurrence in human history that

We eradicated a disease and it's been almost 50 years and there's never been another case. And I thought, now, how come you're hanging your hat on, on that? Because is that, is that provable now? Well, we're like, well, yeah, that nobody's had smallpox, but doubt creates in my mind. Cause it's only one that only happened one time. Yeah. And then I find myself saying, well, I,

What I believe happened once, Jesus coming back from the dead, is way better because if that's true...

All of the infectious diseases are no longer, you know, I think, I think it's the question though. If you ask the question, how can we prove the resurrection of Jesus scientifically? If, if science is the study and structure of how the, and the behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experimentation and testing is

then you can't arrive at a supernatural conclusion if your framework is to examine the natural world. But the question then becomes not, is it scientific or can you discover it scientifically? The question is, is it possible? And that is a fair question, and it is possible. Now we're on this. That's what I was making the point about the reasoning and all. I mean –

You know, it's only going to take you as far down the rabbit hole. I mean, you start looking around, why am I here? Which is a common question that every human will ponder at some point in their life. Yeah, reason is not... I say it like this. It's not that it's...

Reason is a tool, but you can't base everything on reason alone. But God is not asking us to believe in the irrational or the incoherent. He's not. And to the question that you got a text on, if I got that question and somebody said, what do you do when science contradicts Scripture or vice versa?

My answer would be either your science is wrong or your interpretation of scripture is wrong, but they're not going to contradict each other. And ultimately, ultimately, when you're, you may not be reasoned to the right thing, you still have to trust God. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick this up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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