Ep 955 | Jase Shifts His Views on Demonic Spirits & the Best Advice for Visiting Las Vegas
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$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes. See details. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We were talking through our last podcast in between recording the next one, and we're

You know, this idea, James, this Greek word you found, which is really interesting. I think it was profound. It literally changed my view. When I hear people get up and start preaching, they're like, you know, we got these demonic spirits out there, you know, and then I'm kind of do the OI role and think. Yeah, how do we know? How do we know? It's very nebulous. But after seeing that, why throw that word in there where Jesus used exclusively talking about

the casting out all these spirits. You don't remember at the graveyard with the guy who was chained. Yep. Same word, the pigs going down and drought, same word. Then you get into revelation and you're hearing all this, the spirit of Babylon under Rome and their children with the unclean spirits, basically spawning legacies of curses and,

with a breakdown of the family. And it's just this spiritual war that's going on and declaring war against churches and God's people. And the context, by the way, if you didn't hear this, the previous podcast was Ephesians 5.3.

where Paul says, among you there must not be even a hint of sex immorality or any kind of impurity. That's the word Chase is referring to. You know what it made me realize is when he says in verse 7, don't be partners with them. Because a lot of people, they'll read Ephesians 5 and they're single. They're like, well, it doesn't apply to me.

Now, after reading this, you're married to something. Yeah. You're married to the, because you have a spiritual force of evil world and you have God's Holy Spirit in his world, in the body of Christ. You're married to one or the other. And unlike our podcast, there's no points in between, ZZ Top. That's what we do. Look, you have a special segment for the podcast.

And call it all things in between. There's a ZZ Top song.

There are some things in there that we don't want out there. I mean, those are like the raw conversations. Zach, at this point, do we have any pride or embarrassment or shame, Leo? That's true. We can't do a thousand episodes and not – I mean, we probably – there's so much dirt in this podcast you can get out of us. But, you know, I was thinking that when you were talking about that picture of –

of this impurity. I just keep thinking of this in this framework of Ephesians. It really is the impurity and the immorality or the, the demonic attack. It's all meant like, what's the end goal? The end goal is death, obviously, but it's death by division.

It's death by separation. It's death by alienation. It's death by loneliness. It's death by isolation. And then the opposite is true of life in Christ. What is life? It's life through unity, life through community, life through communion, life through connection. So it's everything that the other is not is what Christ is offering. So when you get to the end of it, I just looked this up in the New Living Translation book.

When he says, this is a great mystery, it's verse 32. This is how it says it in the NLT version. But it's an illustration, talking about husband and wife being one. It's an illustration of the way Christ and the church work.

And you think about that whole thing about this whole book of Ephesians, there's so much in here about oneness, bringing these two different people groups together, Jew and Gentile into one body. And I think that we can't overestimate Paul's emphasis here of that there's life in oneness. There's life in unity, life in connection, life in community, because that's who God is. Well, there's no doubt. But I also think.

that when you read this, it kind of gives you a playbook, an introduction to what a godly marriage is, revealing that God is creator. There's more to it than husbands and wives because he leaps from wives and husbands and the advice and then goes to the children. Children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right.

Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy life, long life on the earth. Well, think about it. What is the best thing? There's a lot hanging on marriage between a man and a woman in the church. What is the best thing a child can see? It is that his mom and dad have separated themselves from any hint of a relationship

that does not involve each other. They love each other. That's the best thing they can see is they love each other. And the best thing that the two that love each other can do is love God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and their neighbor as their self. So that is the picture that kids can see, which is the greatest advice. Those are the big things. Which also is the very mechanism through which new worshipers

of the almighty God are created is through this union. And so you think, man, I wonder why there's such a, why is the main focal point? It seems like on everything in society, like where are our division points at? They all revolve around sexuality, family,

And that's why, because this is the battle right here. What you're seeing in Ephesians 5 is that because this is the true reflection, the most pure reflection, I would argue, of who God is. Is it a pure reflection? No, because we have sinned.

And it's really hard for us to understand concepts like oneness, but mainly because even in the best of our marriages, we still position ourselves against our spouse. And I mean, I do it. I still do it. I mean, I would say Jill and I have a great marriage, but there's still manipulation that goes on on both sides. There's still positioning that goes on. There is still like, like I just two weeks ago, we got in a big fight. One is like when there's two day fights, right?

And I was ignoring her and she was ignoring me. Then it became this, you know, you get into those. But what is that? Like that's positioning. That's not the picture of,

Of who God is in his inner life. So, you know, we had to both repent of that and come back and confess that to each other and find unity. But but the picture of what God is, there is none of that. There's no like positioning against one another. So when we talk about submission, for example, submission sounds bad in a in a world and it is bad in a world where people take advantage of you.

But in the context of who God is, submission is not a bad word. That's why he says submit to one another. And then he calls for the submission of woman to man or husband or wife to husband. But there's a lot of submission going around in this Ephesians 5 passage. It's not a one-way submission. I would add that to the discussion. It sets it up beautifully. Both of y'all went to Genesis 2 and 3 in the last podcast.

And you see that there. Literally, they were made from each other. But Paul went there. Yeah, exactly. And the reason why is because when you see the breakdown, Zach, you talked about

and how it divides, you're exactly right. And where did it start? With wanting to know evil. And the first people it divided was the first husband and the first wife. But look, there's no accident that we just get the next chapter in Genesis. We get Genesis 4. Well, guess who got affected next? Two sons.

One of them gets jealous of the other one, you know, because his sacrifice is too godly. And what does he do? He kills his brother. And then we go another two chapters. And what happens? The whole world is so full of violence in two chapters. I don't know how much time that was, but in two chapters in the Bible that God said, I'm grieved. I even made humanity. Exactly. I mean, that's how quickly it gets out of control. But even that graphic thing trickles down into our lives, which was what Zach was talking about.

I call that, you know, when you're mad, you're like, I'm going to be silent. But you're, I call it violently silent. It's violence, silence. Because you're so angry. Especially for somebody like me. We can't help but talk.

And so the amount of restraint that we're showing, and I will go two days and won't utter a word. It's almost borderline miraculous how I can tap into the evil world and do something that's almost impossible. That's that impurity you were talking about earlier. Exactly. And I'm saying you see a train here.

of when you want to have unrestrained sex and you want unlimited amounts of money, you create a system. That's why he said such a man is an idolater. And you tap into the demonic forces on this planet to justify it in the name of

whatever your religion is and i mean i'm saying there's a religion of the world we try to put labels on it but it is justifiable homicide immorality pornography that's just what it is and so the answers are really simple because people say i just i just don't know what to do oh i know what to do i mean especially when you're in the husband-wife relationship

Because now we have digital phones that give you unlimited access, you know, what you would call triggers to your sexual impulses. And it's just available 24-7 and you just get lost in it. You say, what's the problem with that? It's like, do not be partners with them. There has to be a separation. This woman who's getting paid for this and taking your money, she's not your wife.

That is the answer. It's not some, well, I just don't know what my problem is. That woman who you're viewing in a pornographic way, which is out there, she's not your wife.

It's false. It's fake. This is false. And however you've justified it, it gets into the demonic world. And then Job's point way back in the ancient days was, by the way, his pornography, you couldn't see anything but their eyes and their ankles. And he said, I made a covenant not to look at a girl lustfully, and that's why. And then he said, well, how would you like somebody sleeping with your wife and doing the thing? That's the way he put it. The context of this is McGregor was right. It's God against the gods, little Gs.

And look at their setting. This is Vegas. This is the Dirty Poppers, which to define the Dirty Poppers, you can't go. Missy said they outlawed it now, so I don't know. I haven't been to Vegas in a while. But, you know, these guys are standing on street corners, and they'll pop their leg to get your attention and then hand you a card. With a naked woman on it. Yeah, saying, come here, and all your aspirations and dreams will come true.

Yeah. But you look on the sidewalk and there's just hundreds, you know, that have. People that didn't want a hint. That declined the offer, but they did take it. So that's what I always tell people. I say, when you go to Vegas, keep your hands in your pocket. That's exactly right. Keep your head down and get to your destination with your wife, your Bible, and your duck calls. Because the offer here, I think the misleading thing

perspective on this is that this is some kind of oppressive rule structure that Paul's laying out here. And if you see it that way, you really missed the entire thing. This is not about oppression of anybody, particularly women. It's actually about liberation. And there's another time that this Genesis passage is referenced. It's in Mark 10. This is when Jesus was actually talking about marriage and he was saying,

set up by the Pharisees, and they were going to trap him in this question about marriage. And in chapter 10, verse 2, it says some of them, they came and tried to trap him with this question, should a man be allowed to divorce his wife? And Jesus answered them with a question, well, what did Moses say in the law about divorce? Well, he permitted it, they replied. He said a man can give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away. Well, if you go back and do the research on what that was written in Deuteronomy, but it was

It was they they could divorce their wives for any pretty much any any reason they wanted to. And so you go back and read it and understand the context of when Moses gave this. It was actually a command. It was actually a concession because of their hard heart. So Jesus takes this. So think about if you're a woman in this culture and your spouse could divorce you for any reason whatsoever.

Like Moses instituted a concession in that for the protection of women. But then when Jesus comes in, he kind of explains this further in verse five. He says, well, he wrote this commandment only as a concession to your hard hearts.

That's why he wrote it. It wasn't like God commanded this from the beginning. This was a concession that he made because your hearts were so evil and they were so hard and you were putting these women out for no reason. They had no means of income or anyone to take care of them. So you had to put this stuff into place. But then he further explains it in the same way Paul does. He says, but God made them male and female. So again, going back to the Genesis account from the beginning of creation, this explains, this explains.

There's that language of oneness again. So there are no longer two, but one, and let no one split apart what God has

has joined together. And I love that picture that Jesus is painting. He's elevating the whole discussion. And this was actually very liberating for women because they were really severely abused, I would argue, in that culture because they were allowed just to be kicked to the curb. And Jesus, his ethic is just a much greater ethic. And it results, by the way, in the culmination of life.

So Zach, you're the only one of our quartet here.

that has kids in school. So how's September been? Everybody's getting back in, got a lot of planning going on for the back-to-school year. Yeah, it's like herding cats, Al. It's just like herding a bunch of cats. And I like it because you even have adopted children now, so you're going to be doing this for many more years to come. We're not stopping. You're not stopping, which means you have to plan ahead. And getting life insurance is one of those things we have to plan for, especially as our families grow.

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Yeah, I think we're going to get to that pattern when you get to the roles. It is a reflection of our relationship with Jesus. Because you think about it, when you look at this as Christ in the church first, then you get into what Phil read last podcast about Colossians 3 when it says we're all baptized into Christ and we put on Christ. But then it says there's neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female. You know, we're all equal in Christ.

And so a lot of people, I think, go there and misuse that, saying, well, there's no roles. We're all equal. But no, we have roles because of that fact. Just like God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, you think about, and we read earlier in Ephesians 3, where when Paul prayed to the Father from whom

all families in heaven and on earth derives its name i mean the essence of god is a family and the reason it is a family dynamic because if he's love love must be shared and if love is shared

somebody's going to have to humble themselves, be unselfish and sacrifice. Well, now you get into Jesus's role. That's why when you read the gospels, Jesus kept acting like, even to the point he said, God, my father's greater than me. And people say, oh my goodness, what does that mean? Is he saying he's not God or what?

He had a role. He had no problem submitting in that role. He submitted and surrendered in the role. And so then when you read Ephesians 5, people can't get past the word submit after he just said, speaking of how the church functions in all these things, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

women what is your role submit your your husband should lead that's that's the impression yeah but so then it gets to the men which i think paul's audience the women love this because they were being oppressed from every angle the men were the one ones grumbling there because now all of a sudden you get a picture that they got to be like christ and be willing to die for their wife they're

They're like, no, I'm out on that. And not just die physically, but die every day by serving. It's an amazing thing. It's the attitude, Philippians 2, it's the attitude of Christ Jesus, who being in very nature God, didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, became a servant. So you read that Philippians 2 passage,

And you say, that's how a husband is to serve his wife. Then you start looking at the whole thing gets messed up here is that we want to equate the value of something with the role of something. And we want to say if there's any distinction between

in roles, then that means there must be a distinction in value. And that's not true. It's not true inside the Godhead. There is a role inside the Godhead. You have God, the Father. What's his role? He's a father. You have God, the Son. What's his role? He's the Son. You have God, the Spirit. What's his role? He's the Spirit between the two. They have different roles. Well, which one's greater in terms of their values?

Well, they're equal. There's no higher person inside the triune Godhead. There is an equal ontological value inside the Godhead. Yes, they have a different economic role. And I would argue it's the same thing in our relationships here. There is no there is a there is no you can't you can't confuse the two. And then when you add into this idea, well, in God's economy and God's kingdom, there's this weird idea.

The thing that he's calling us to where he says that if you want to live, you have to die. If you want to receive, you have to give. If you want to be first, then you should be last. And for so long, I thought that meant go get in the back of the line and then he'll escort me to the front of the line.

But that's not what he's saying. He's actually saying the best position to be is in the back of the line. It's in the place of service. It's in the place of sacrificial love. That is the core of who God is. God is the core of his whole essence is sacrificial love. And so if you look at it as that is where true life is, then in a relationship of a husband and wife where husband is loving,

laying down his life, sacrificially loving and serving his wife. And she is sacrificially submitting to her husband in that kind of relationship. The result of that is actually what you always been looking for. Intimacy, oneness connection. Well, ultimately it's the, I've said this many times. It's the greatest sex on earth. If you take God's design, because you have a man and a woman,

Let's say they were virgins when they got married. I experienced that. I wasn't, you know, the, my biggest problem on the honeymoon night was what's fixed to happen here. You know, it was not, but I knew one thing. I wasn't thinking about who, who she had been with or, you know, or how I was going to compare to that. So none of those stresses, cause she had never been to anybody. Right. She wasn't thinking that.

I knew there was zero chance that I was going to get a sexually transmitted disease on my honeymoon night. I would think that would ruin the honeymoon. No chance of that never entered my mind. I'm just reflecting on it. Although you did get strep throat. So I did get strep throat, but that was just weird. You know, I think that just shows you that no matter you do it right, you

Things are going to happen. That's right. There's still going to be tests. That's right. But what I'm saying is comparison-free. It's guilt-free. Yep. This is sanctioned by God. This is what he created us to do. It was comparison-free, shame-free. It was beautiful, even though if people...

Or to get the gory details, they were like, well, yeah, I don't know what you're doing. Oh, well, we didn't. That was kind of the fun of it, you know? But you kind of figured it out. What you're describing is the picture that you see in the garden. I mean, there was no comparison. There was no, in their case, there was no in-laws. There was no anything until, and what was the one thing that changed everything? The knowledge of evil. That was the thing. You see this so much in couples. The point I'm trying to get is when you...

Think about a hint of sexual morality and all that. We deal with a lot of couples and trying to help them when things go wrong. But I've just seen this same pattern. These roles get messed up, you know, and it's a combination. The man won't lead. And usually not in all case, but usually it's kind of a domineering type woman.

who when you ask what's happened, she's sacrificed this whole time and been unselfish just to keep it together. But now I've had enough. But what I've noticed is then both of them, as they separate and are headed toward divorce, they both start getting in shape. They buy new clothes. Because in their mind, you're like, why are you doing this? So I always ask those questions, you know.

And because I've seen even counselors, they're like, you know, did you buy new underwear? It's amazing that question. When I heard the counselor give it, I was like, who in the world would ask that question? But you know what the answer was? Yeah. Why? It's not for her husband. You see what I mean? Because she's back. She's getting back out into the game. And then the husband's sitting there saying, well, if you'd have been doing this.

Getting in shape and getting all pretty and buying new underwear. You probably wouldn't have had these problems. If you hadn't have been. But it's just like once you see that oneness broken, you start seeing the hypocrisy in how you're living. All of a sudden, you're trying your best to put your foot forward. Because why? You're putting all your hopes and dreams on, well, maybe if I find somebody else and go through this same process again.

that I'm going to find happiness. And it's just a spinning of the wheels. It's a tough world out there. Exactly. There has to be submission and sacrifice. You both get to look like Jesus in this. Because when you don't do that, then you start believing lies. One of the biggest lies that you'll believe, and I guarantee you, a podcast this size, there's people listening right now who are believing this lie that I married the wrong person.

And that's from the evil one, too, because if you read the scripture here, he says that what God has brought together, let no man separate. So I made the wrong note. God brought it together. And I remember we went through that ministry re-engage, Jill and I did. And it was very, very good in helping us see the whole point of our marriage and who was the author of our marriage, which was God himself.

And the goal of your marriage, ultimately, it's not the Jerry Maguire, you know, you, Jill, you fulfill me and I'll fulfill you. We'll complete each other. That's not the goal of a marriage. And the goal of the marriage is to glorify God. It's really not even to meet each other's needs. It's to glorify God, to experience him and to reflect him. Did you get that information into your daughter's ears? Yes.

I did. We, we, we, uh, yeah, we, we taught our kids that too. And, you know, Layla is now married and, you know, some of this, you go, you get it. I don't care how much you're told this stuff. Some of it, you learn, uh,

through your own kind of pain and struggle. But her and Dawson, I mean, to be honest with you, they've far surpassed where Jill and I were at that age in terms of what they're doing. So I wish I could go back to my 21 or 23-year-old self and have really implemented a lot of this in my marriage early on. Did y'all ever think that we would be approaching 1,000 podcasts for Unashamed?

I mean, did it go by fast or slow for you today?

A blur. A lot of Bible study, right? A thousand hours of meandering conversations. That's right. And some pretty good Bible discussions. And some Bible study. Yeah, which is good. We understand what it means to have a strong biblically grounded foundation. That's what this podcast is about. And we want to share with you another podcast that has that same biblically grounded foundation, and that's Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

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Well, yeah, I think we could all say that. But I've been trying to bring up these three points you had in that outline for two podcasts. It says separate from the world. And I think that's the best thing you can do for your marriage as far as when it comes to greed, hints of sexual immorality, or any kind of demonic rationalization.

of the earthly gods. This is seven through 14 is where it goes. But then you had dedicate. So you separate, then you dedicate, you know, to each other. Now he's talking about to Christ and to each other in the church, but it's going to be mirror of your marriage. And you think, what is dedicate? And it gets into this, you know, find out what pleases the Lord, live as children, live as children of light,

And I thought about that phrase, find out what pleases the Lord. I mean, look, if you spend 15 minutes, you know, reading your Bible every other day, I'm just going to tell you that's not enough. Yeah. It's not enough. I mean, you have to be, I think, absorbed with the life of Jesus and his word.

to be a part of a family. You know, I look at my wife now, look, we cannot be two different people in everything outside of Jesus. And, and all of you that know me, y'all know that. I mean, it's like, we are, it's like we came from two different planets. And I mean, we're just now 30 something years into her getting over the fact that I was raised in an environment that frowned upon the,

Razors, lawnmowers. You remember that, Phil? I'm learning as you go. Yard brooms. Yeah. What was the other thing that was frowned on? There's usually three things I mentioned there. Razors, lawnmowers. Al, feel free to jump in. What am I missing? Deodorant? I don't know. Yeah, deodorant is optional. But anyway, what I was thinking, when you get married, you know, I married this woman. You know, I was taught you don't,

You don't mow the grass. That's a waste of time. It's a waste of money. The frost will get it. But also feel and have that element of don't let society dictate to you what is socially acceptable. Think of all the critters that love that high grass and they're flourishing in nature. And he gives us a little speech. Well, my wife was uncomfortable if people are driving through a neighborhood and everybody's yard is manicured and then you come to ours and it's a hayfield. Right.

Your mother comes about as close as anybody I can think of. It's just a follower. She didn't mind about your high grass. No. But y'all always lived at the end of the road, too, with nobody around. That was the difference with Missy, probably. But what I was going to say is, you know, she...

If you start adding up the moments of sacrifice and submission and unselfishness, especially with our kids, but not just that, with me on a daily basis, it would be tens of thousands. Watching from a distance, I've seen some great steps by your woman. Well, that's what I was going to tell you. I mean, look, she is... She may not think it's that evident, but it is. Yeah, it's tens of thousands of acts...

on a daily basis that are wrapped around sacrifice, selfishness, you know, especially for a kid, just little thing, but it's every day. It's a daily thing. And what I was going to tell you is every time I see her not doing anything, like he's not doing an active service, he's reading her Bible and it's tens of thousands of hours. And, uh, you know, it's hard to just step back and realize that until you kind of do. But I thought,

Well, no wonder this woman is living a life of sacrifice. But she's getting most of her ideas from the Bible because she just lives there. She was implementing children, obey your parents in the Lord. This is right for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you.

and that you may enjoy long life on the earth. That's a pretty good group of little things. Yeah, that's good advice, huh? And that's what happens as you pass it on. I mean, I think I could say fairly for all of us, because Mom and Dad have been 60 years, Lisa and I 40, you and Missy 34, I think. Zach, what are you guys, 20 what? 20...

You need to be able to answer that. Yeah, you need to be a little quicker there, Zay. Zay, you're the least married person here, years-wise. So look, I'm going to help you with that. You have to think about this at least once a week during the year because a man's mind, that's going to quickly escape.

So I'm all the time doing the math. Okay, I got married in 1990. I got married. Now, once you get that as the foundation, because you have to get that as a foundation. I know when I was married. 1990, August 10th. Well, I hope this text has lived out. I think it did pretty good. Fathers, just us boys, do not exasperate your children. So the fathers, the fathers,

and can help exasperate your children, which is not good. Instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. So that says the biblical instruction is the place to be, and you won't exasperate. Exasperate is when they just like,

Well, they make it rough on you. Yeah. And you can tell exasperated children because they typically don't have a very good relationship with their parents when they get older. That comes from the things we're talking about. If you're hypocritical or rule-oriented. Too hard sometimes or too soft. The hypocritical part, if you're acting one way in the world. You just come on so much that you just. Yeah, there are several things that are exasperated. We'll get to that.

So I don't know about you guys, but when my wife is fired up, she's been to a conference or she's read a great book and man, she finds something great spiritually. It fires me up. Zach, are you affected the same way? I am, Al. I love it when Jill loves Jesus more. Yeah, it just makes everything better, right?

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When I was talking about us and our years of marriage, is it fair to say, would y'all agree with this, that as you have grown as a brother and sister in a Christ community with your wife, it has made your marriage better? Oh, 100%. I think mine's more, I didn't really, I don't think about it quite as, I think this idea of oneness is why I improve. It's like, I'm constantly having to tell myself,

She's me. Yeah. So why are you getting upset about that? You know, what would I do to myself? You know? So to me, which of course, Paul is going to say that you love your wife. That's my biggest catalyst. So your parents can't do everything, but they can live a life, you know,

Bring them up in the training and instruction in the Lord. You got to have Jesus in there and for them to get to know him. Right. And it'll save them a lot of trouble. But Jace makes a good point. It's not just reading them scripture. It's living it. It's seeing it. That's what I was getting. It's not enough. We were like, oh, I'm going to read them Bible stories. I'm all for Bible stories and all for reading. But...

There has to be a picture of Jesus and a focus on Jesus' life and how he acts and why I'm doing this. I think the Bible's about Jesus. That's how God revealed himself. And Jesus was about relationships. So I think all those have to be on the ready because it really is advice. And I do think we're men, and part of training them is helping them define themselves

what that means. And so we need men who lead and we need no women who submit to their husbands and want to submit because you're leading, but you're, you're leading them. This idea. I always say, make it easy. Like,

The live in such a way to make it easy for a husband or a wife to do what God has asked them to do. And the way you do that, which which we'll get into this when you know the text on idea of love and respect is we're more lovable, more respectable. In other words, we want to live in such a way it makes it easy. I can follow the example of Christ pretty easily because he's the ultimate example to follow.

And so you want to recreate that as close as you can. I'll give a perfect illustration. So I was telling recently that about some of the things I had to do to help take care of Lisa.

Right after her surgery stuff, I didn't know I was capable of, you know, I got six drains coming out of her body, which means she's draining fluid. Well, someone has to clean that up every day. She can't do it. Yep. So guess who did it? Me. Now I had nurses. I had friends of ours that said, Hey, I'll do it. Cause I know that's really not your thing. I said, no, Jay's to your point about dedication. I said, I am dedicated to my wife. I live with her. I'm going to learn how to do this.

And I'm going to clean those drains every single day. Now, I raised a hallelujah when the last one came out. I won't lie because it wasn't easy. But I learned something about myself. You have a capacity to serve your spouse in a way you didn't know possible until there was a need to do it. And I learned that actually from my next door neighbor in Gulf Shores. His wife was paralyzed. I was just talking about intimacy. So in one bad surgery, she comes out. They'll never have sex again.

She's paralyzed now and the waist down. So that's off the table. And now she can't take care of herself. She's in a wheelchair and she gets sick easily. So she has, she's always in the having to go to the doctor in the hospital and I'm watching her husband and they're maybe my age, a little older.

I'm watching him serve his wife every single minute of every single day. He takes care of her. He didn't leave her. He didn't put her in some place. When it takes two hours to get her loaded up in the car to go to the hospital, he does it for two hours. And I don't even know if he's a believer or not, but I know one thing. I learned about dedication by watching –

the way they operate. And so there are ways that we serve each other. And I love that you brought up that word dedicate because that's what it is. But he's talking in that about dedication to Christ. But think about what that means for each other. And then the third word was illuminate. Yeah, I thought that was great. That was a great vision as a husband looking at my wife where I'm trying to illuminate her in Jesus to the world. And it's a full-time job because...

as I've clearly laid out, part of my role is to speak the truth in love. So, and my number one allegiance is Jesus. Yeah. I want to lead my family toward what we're supposed to be doing on the planet for Jesus right now, and ultimately the afterlife. So sometimes it's hard decisions and hard conversations that has to be said, but the goal is that illumination. So, and part of that's wrapped around, you got to expose yourself

whatever lies beneath. Yeah. There's no secrets in marriage. There's no cover. You really know it anyway, but you got to shine light on it to deal with it. I mean, that's the guy, because you go back to the garden when he, when Paul takes it back to the garden and he, he references that passage in Genesis two, therefore man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast his wife. Um, and the two shall become one flesh. Um,

You think about, well, you just skip one chapter later and say, well, what went wrong? Well, they ended up worshiping something they should not have worshiped, which was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And then the result of that was actually the opposite of knowing each other. They hid. They hid from God and from each other. They covered up with the fig leaves, which is such a beautiful metaphor.

It's not a beautiful metaphor. It's a very ugly metaphor, actually, for what we do. And so we hide and we protect and we do not let our spouse see us because if they do see us, then guess what?

They're going to see how horrible we are and they're going to reject us. And so we keep, and then they're doing the same thing. So then you keep this cover up going and that's the pathway to divorce and destruction is actually covering up. But in Christ, in the gospel, you actually can pull back the fig leaf and say, here's, here's me.

And in a healthy marriage and where I think probably the emotional bond is repaired and built is in that place where you see that in your spouse and they see that in you and you still remain present, just like Christ did. He's ever present in our need. Because when Christ looked at them, when God looked at Adam and Eve, he knew they were sinful. And he said, why did you hide?

You know, who told you you were naked? You know, he asked him that question. And they said, well, I made these fig leaves. Well, who told you you were naked? Did you eat the tree I told you not to eat of? They're like, well, you know, he kind of did. And they start making blame. But what is God's response in that moment is he ends up making them a suitable covering, which is a foreshadowing of the gospel that Christ will be our covering. And so this is the gospel, by the way, that God doesn't look at you and say, man, you are awesome.

He actually looks at you and says, you're much worse than you think you are. And I see you there and I'm here. And in the book of Romans says, I died for you there while you were an enemy. I died for you. And if God can know me in that way, then I don't have to perform for him. I don't have to pretend for him. He sees me in my in my nakedness, in my flaws, in my shame, in my guilt. He sees all that.

And he says, that's where I died for you. That's where I loved you. And that's the bedrock of intimacy to be known in that way post-fall. That's the same thing that Christ wants us to do in our marriage as well, is to love our spouses that way, particularly men, loving your wives as Christ loved the church, knowing her at her worst and staying present. Travel is all about choosing your own adventure. With your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, sometimes that means a ski trip at a luxury lodge in the Swiss Alps.

with a few of your closest friends. And other times, it means a resort on a private beach with no one else in sight. Wherever you decide to go, find the detail that moves you with unique benefits at hand-selected hotels from Sapphire Reserve. Chase, make more of what's yours. Learn more at chase.com slash sapphire reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDSE. Subject to credit approval. All right, so I want to read this. So in 515, I think that's about where we're at.

It says, be very careful then how you live, not as unwise, but as wise, making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. Therefore, do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. And that's been a constant thing. Find out what pleases the Lord. Do not get drunk on wine, which now we've thrown in the fourth aspect. You've got wine.

You know, this marriage problems has something in common with there's a show named Dateline. And all the murders that happen on that show revolve around money, sex, demonic powers, or getting drunk. Or drugs. Every one of them. And so you say, I know what's going to happen if...

I get into this. Yeah. Bad, bad things are going to happen. I mean, I just find that fascinating. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about marriage, but I'm just saying the, when you look at the world, it tends to simplify. Well, it's interesting days because when you're young, a lot of people are drawn to that because again, they want to experience it. I got to know what it's like to be drunk, to be high, to be on this, to be on that.

But as people get older, it's not now they know. And it usually is not good. It makes you feel bad. You throw up. You get in trouble. The results are bad. You drive. You stand to get an accident. But then when you get older, you're doing it to then take the play. It becomes the idol because it's taking the place of what truly fills you. So now, even though you know it's bad for you.

You continue into it. And then it turns to, you know, drug abuse, alcoholism, all the stuff that goes with it. Yeah, I'm just saying it's just weird that all these married couples and, you know, the ex-husband or the guy having a farewell, they was at a bar, or she had a big life insurance policy. It's like over and over for a year. I think it's the number one show on TV for like 40 years. And you're just watching.

the tragedy of life when you get hooked up into this and take it to its full form. It ends in death. Right. Pain and misery along the way. That's right. It's like, if you've seen one, you've seen them all and you can get to where you can figure it out. Five minutes into the show. This is what you do when you get over 50, you watch Dateline. Yep. The days are evil. Yeah.

My wife and I have been watching it. It's funny, though, Judge. You're watching it to say, man, you're seeing the spiritual implications. A lot of people watch it because they think, well, at least we're not as bad as those people were. I mean, that's how a lot of people. I think people watch it because it's a true story. It happened, and it's shocking. But it's also you're trying to figure out, you know, the way they make the show, you're trying to figure out, you know, who did it.

Instead of reading the mystery or watching the mystery. It's amazing. You know, my wife is like way better than I am. She's like, oh, he did it. Or, you know, it's like no mom would ever leave her kids. You know, it's like, well, we don't know. Because you got the guy talking, old Ellen or whatever his name is. He couldn't have possibly done it. Could he? We'll be right back.

After this break. It's just, I can't stop watching. And it's just a train wreck. But it makes me want to share Jesus with everybody and say, look, you're getting off into these things that is an illusion of promising fulfillment for you. And it was right, you had it right there all along. I mean, having more money is not going to answer your problem. It's actually going to cause more. I used the illustration this weekend of David saying,

You know, he was in a place he wasn't supposed to be in Second Psalm 11. And he looked down and he saw Bathsheba bathing and he got an idea and it was not a good one. And he followed through on the idea and look how that unfolded into a Dateline episode. I mean, it was adultery, a murder, and his fellow soldiers got killed. He

him killing this guy. And then he was just like, so corrupt. He was like, it's okay. War happens. People die. I mean, all of a sudden this noble, amazing man of God is a sniveling coward because of sin. It was terrible. So then it says instead, uh, be filled with the spirit, speak to one another, Zach, not silence, not violent silence, but,

Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord. Always giving thanks to God, the Father of everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus. Submit to one another out of reverence of Christ. So what a picture of Christ and the church and their marriage. And then it's kind of like he says, oh, and by the way,

wives submit to your husbands as to the lord so you see what he's doing here yeah you can read these commentaries and do all this he's talking about christ in the church and then he has this thought you know what it's like your marriage this relationship of what jesus did humbling himself

to purchase the church, and now we're one with him. He's like, wives, you have a role. Submit to your husbands as to the Lord. That's what it says, the inspired word of God. And I know why it says that, because that's part of how God in his love rescued us. So he compares the wife and the husband to Jesus, because then he says, for the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church, his body.

of which he is the Savior. Now look, this would bother me if Christ wasn't who he is. That would bother me, and I'm a man. I'm not saying, oh, goody, I'm glad that's in there. But I'm like, that would bother me if Christ wasn't who he was. But when you read who Christ is, you're like, okay, I want to follow that lead. That's his thought. And he showed you those glimpses all along, and probably the biggest thing

one that illuminated his character and his integrity, talking about Jesus, was the night that he was going to be betrayed. He got down on his knees and he washed the feet of the disciples.

That shows you, I mean, he was the Lord. He was about to die for the sins of humanity. He was about to be raised from the dead. And what was he doing the night before? Washing the feet of the guys. He also went to a temple and cleared it out with a whip. Exactly. Not that he was whipping people, but he was, because it wasn't right. That's right. It wasn't godly. Which shows you that all those characteristics are what we should be as a leader. Exactly.

Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. It's just not even a discussion. You're one, and that's how it's set up. Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water.

Through the word. So we just know, I mean, you have to say disclaimers. This is not about coercion. Nope. Bullying. Nope. If you ever have to say that you're in charge, you're not. Nope.

It's like you've got a completely wrong view. It's like Carl. I was used to say, Jesse said, if you think you're a leader, but you look behind you and nobody's following, you're not a leader. Have men in the church taken these passages and abused over? Yes. Yep.

and demean what you, all that has happened. But that's not, that doesn't mean that what he's saying is not beautiful, right, and godly and intended for how functional families should reflect the creator. All right, so let me finish this and then we can talk about it next time. To make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, there you go, Phil, and to present her to himself as a radiant church without stain, wrinkle, or any impurities

Other blemishes, but holy and blameless. Just think of the responsibility. I'm supposed to present my wife to the world and to God in that capacity? Well, that's going to be a full-time job. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Just think about that. If you don't love your wife, you don't love yourself.

After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it just as Christ does the church. I mean, just what picture is that giving you? We're all members of his body. For this reason, now here's where he goes back to the prophetic nature of Adam and Eve. Mm-hmm.

A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery, but I'm talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you must also love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

All right. We finally got it read at least. So we're going to talk about it quite a bit on the next podcast. So we'll see you there on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

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