Ep 967 | Jase’s Ticket Battle Ends with a Twist No One Saw Coming & Jesus Is the Best Defense Attorney
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I am unashamed. What about you? We got permission, Al. We got permission? Yeah, we got permission. I mean...

Jace, let me say this. Let me just announce it before you say anything. I'm super excited today. I mean, you don't want to give the in...

Yeah, lead us up to it. Look, we're in the entertainment business, and you've got to have the thing out there. So, Unashamed Nation, so you'll know what we're talking about. I walked in this morning, Jay, and said, the verdict is in. I didn't know what – that could mean a lot of things around here. The verdict could have been a good hunt. And you have no other context. You and Phil have no other context for that, right? Right, exactly. And so then y'all were talking a little bit, and I realized the verdict, the thing I've been waiting to hear –

has happened. The seatbelt paper has now been resolved. It has come to its conclusion. Which is good news either way, because I know a lot of people are sick of hearing about it. But this is, I mean, but this is the end of the story. We have a conclusion.

I actually stumbled upon the conclusion early because I called Jace on, was it Saturday? Yeah, you called me just about something else. No, you called me the day it happened. So that would have been Friday. You literally called me after I walked out of the courthouse. And let's just say there was an energy. I'm not going to say if it was a negative or positive energy, but there was a palatable energy.

Strong energy coming out of Jace. Well, that's been obvious because we've touched on this for several podcasts. Well, Phil got wind of it, and you asked me a question. You remember what you asked me, Phil? Did you win? You had something else to that. You said, did you win or lose?

And do you remember what my response was? Fighting the government, I had my doubts. I mean, hands up for that. It's like, of course. Phil, you said, did you win or lose? And do you remember what I answered? Phil Shuggett has said no. I said yes. You said yes to both. Yes to both. I said, actually, if you would have said, did you lose or win? The answer is yes.

Yes. So here's what happened. Leave it to Jace to not have a simple answer to this question. This is very complex. I am shocked that something happened to you is complex. I actually think you're going to find what I'm fixing to tell you very hard to believe. They were saying you were guilty of breaking the law. Here's what happened. So Thursday night,

I'm going back. This all happened Friday. Thursday night, I'm at a card game. Yeah. There's no thinking about seatbelts and upcoming court dates. But one of the guys playing in the game is, and we're acquaintances, he's a defense lawyer. And I said, well, look, I got, you know, you being a defense lawyer, I got a case coming up. And he's like, what about? So I kind of told him the case. Yeah. And he said, I'm sitting in that car.

prosecutor a text right now and so i think he was kind of because they they battle against each other they know each other yeah and uh so he sends a text on unsolicited by me i didn't know what he was texting and i think he was kind of kidding around like you're gonna lose oh jace is gonna get you or whatever and so this guy came back with something to the effect of no he will lose

And so the guy we call the counselor at the card game, he's like, why don't I just set up a meeting and y'all work it out? I was like, hey, if he wants to meet, I'll meet. So the next thing he tells me is he said 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. He said, I'll be there. I'll show you where to go. I was like, well, you tell him I'm coming.

This sounds like Wyatt Earp at the end of it. So I drive up there. Did you say, and hell's coming with me? No, I left that part out. That's a Wyatt Earp tombstone. And so I meet the card player out in front. We go through a series of, you know,

Whatever you do when you go through the courthouse, you know. Metal detectors. Metal detectors and officials. You didn't have any weapons on it, did you? People are looking at me like, is he? What was the charge? Well. Hang on, Dad. So we go into this guy's office and we sit down, which I was surprised that my buddy is staying with me, which is a key point.

in the story I'm fixed to say. So the counselor, the card game counselor has tagged along. Yeah, I have not retained this guy in any way. We were playing cards the night before. However... Does he lose to you quite regularly? No, he's a pretty good player. He's pretty good, okay. And so... I just wonder if he's paying off a debt or something. No, he's good. So we... He said, what's your problem? So I give my version of the story.

I mean, I'm a man of integrity. Look at my record. There's no skeletons in the closet. That was where I started. I mean, you'll look up my record in the last 40 years. It'll take you about two seconds, and you're not going to find anything. One moment 20 years ago, I got a ticket for evading a red light. So I went ahead and told that story. I've told it here before. A newspaper story. No newspapers ever.

in the newspaper bin so i kept going i didn't fight it because technically they were right i should have turned around and got back in line yeah but i just kept going boom got hammered so then i go through the gate uh the case and i said here's the biggest problem i have is the statute that the guy quoted the law officer was not correct i said i was honest about me having my seat belt

But he was not honest in quoting the statute. It's not in there. I was like, so I'm a man of integrity. I just don't think that's right. And if you're listening, what the issue was, Jace had the seatbelt on, but it wasn't crossing over his chest. It was under his arm. That is an incorrect assessment of what happened. Objection overruled. Objection. Object, Your Honor. It was over my torso, but it was not –

over my shoulder it was under your shoulder over the torso i actually for my case i took a picture and i i showed it to the to the prosecutor maddie do you have this picture maddie i will send these to the legal way we'll we'll get that up on the screen so man we have uh evidence we're introducing into this uh proceeding and i introduced it to to the prosecutor well when he cranked up after he said are you finished

And I was like, yes, sir. He gave his case, which was a preview of what he's going to do. And about, I guess it took about five minutes into it, I thought, I'm fixed to lose.

Well, his question to you was. It was a withering barrage. To be fair, the smoking gun was when he asked you, had you read the owner's manual of your own vehicle? That was part of his argument. He had about three or four arguments. He said, here are the facts. He said, you were wearing the seatbelt improperly.

And I had made a point in my presentation that there weren't any studies that I could find that showed the difference. And if someone has it under their shoulder, wall fastened or on top of their shoulder. Well, he produced a study. So that was the first thing. He had this study and there were six people that whoever did the study deemed would have survived if they'd had it over their shoulder. Now, look, when he said that, my friend who's sitting beside me said,

He leaned over to me and said, that's inadmissible. So, cause it was, you know, we're, we got a subjective study. So I kind of said, well, you're producing a study with six people.

That sounds like a small sampling. He looked at me with kind of felt like Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson in the. You can't handle the truth. No, he was like, if we can save one life, I think it's worth doing it. Sir, you can't handle the truth. He went Luke 15, which am I going to argue with that? No. No.

I was like, well, I'll have to. He actually used a Bible verse on it. No, I was just thinking Luke 15. I've been saying, if he's doing that, then this man is good. So then he said, I have your owner's manual. This is point two, after he had the study. Point two, I have your owner's manual. Do you drive a 2000, you know, 21? Well, it says, he had it highlighted. It says, do not wear your seatbelt under your arm.

It says that in my owner's manual. And I was like, huh? He said, have you not read your owner's manual? And I said, evidently not. And he's like, it's not my responsibility to,

or the state's responsibility for you to know what's proper and what's not proper. So it was a really good point. Yeah, good point. And he had the study with the six people. Then he had a video that I watched, a doctor saying he had had a patient come in and this seatbelt was under his arm, but it ripped through his vital organs in the crash. Which,

Which my response in the moment was, well, that makes me not even want to wear a seatbelt if it ripped those vital organs, you know? And he's like, he wasn't wearing it properly. So after all that, I was like, all right, well, you should have briefed the law enforcement. You should teach a class because if he would have made these types of arguments.

There wouldn't have been any kind of problem. You'd have paid the $50. Well, we're getting to that. Because the law officer also said the ticket was $25, which was another deceiving statement because it was $50.

So at that moment, I really was impressed with the prosecutor. And he also said, because when I said about my character, and I gave him a little review over how I've been involved with supporting law enforcement, not just in the state. I talked about two years I went to the state.

Local prison here. And I said, now, look, I was out there sharing Jesus, but I was also helping your job because I was saying in a very loud voice, stop breaking the law. And so he was like, well, we appreciate all that. However.

Once that ticket was issued and this is the case I give, and he made a strong statement. He said, I have prosecuted this type of case many times. Which is why he was so, that was my question to you. How did he know so much about this? Exactly. He's done it. And then he said the key line and he said, and you're going to lose. Well, when he said that, my acquaintance fires back and says, no.

No, you're not. He looked at me first and said, no, you're not. And he said, let us be clear. And I was thinking, us? I changed teams five minutes ago and you didn't get the memo.

He said, let me be clear. He just couldn't take it anymore. And I'll make this PG because I just went through a big speech about being a man of integrity. And now here's my defense counsel. That you didn't hire. We're not going to put up with this manure. And we will go to court and we want an apology for us even being here.

And he's like, I'm going to go get us a court date. So he got up and I was like, no, I'm paying the ticket. He was like, no, you're not. We're going to get a court date. So he leaves. And so this prosecutor said, okay.

"Where'd you meet this guy?" I was like, "I made him out of cardboard." - It was so funny. I said, "Well, he's fired and I didn't even hire him." I was like, "I'm going." - You know, the hardest thing about firing him is you didn't really hire him. - Yeah, yeah. I didn't really hire him. So we start talking and he's like, "Look, we know that you have a voice." And he gave me this really passionate speech about, "You have a voice.

Cause I went on this big deal about click it or ticket. I said, I clicked it and still got a ticket, you know? And he's like, well, you need to tell people shoulder it or shoulder the fine. I mean, I was like, okay. Cause he's like, he convinced me if they see you without your seatbelt over your shoulder, they're going to give you a ticket.

And I was like, now let's be honest. And they're doing it because they think it's healthier for you. It's not like. Well, exactly. He convinced me. He believes in it. But I was like, well, this is why he won me over. And after my lawyer left, he was like, I get it. I watched the footage. The law officer could have done a better job.

He didn't take up for it. He was like, it was very confusing. He was misquoting the statute. He could have done a better job. He's like, but once it gets here and you, cause he's like, you admitted it. I was like, well, that's what I have a problem with. Cause he's like, we got you on tape. You said I didn't have it on. I was like, well, I was being honest. He's like, well, that hung you. When you, when you admitted that, then you need to pay the fine. And he's like, we're not gonna let you off just cause you're famous or whatever, but you do have a voice.

And so now you can educate people. And I was like, well, I was ignorant of the law. I said, if you watch the footage, you saw my sermon about Hebrews. And he said, yeah, I found it comical because I said it was an accidental sin. He's like, but I don't care if you did it on accident or not. I believe it. So you are coming in town, Al, in a few days. And I have decided that...

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we're, we're on. I was like, no, I'll, I'll result. He's like, no, we're winning this. This, this is going to happen. I was like, here's the biggest problem. I said, what's the date? I was like, that's during duck season. He said, no, I'll put it during the split on purpose. I was like, but on in the split, I hunt somewhere else. And, uh, so I was like, that's,

My hypocrisy leaves once I got to give up duck hunting or a duck hunting trip to fight this battle. I was like, and I don't think I can beat this guy. I mean, even this you in his argument. Well, I believe it is subjective. Back to tombstone. Back to tombstone. Remember what Doc Holliday said at the end? My hypocrisy only goes so far. And we found the end of yours. Yours is that you're not going to miss the day. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, because then my counselor was like, no, he's just smoking mirrors. He's like, the law is on your side, Jace. And I was like, because it's subjective was his point. This is open to- He's probably right. You probably could have won. And that's why the prosecutor said, well, I'm not opposed to making the law with more clarity.

I mean, he seemed like he was playing a team player. He's like, but you throw in your owner's manual, you throw in the studies, and you throw in the fact that they can't see that you have your seatbelt on, which is really a big problem for them. I was like, I'm all about that. If you wanted to put in the law, it must be visible. Well, then you would have them wearing it over your shoulder. So there's my speech. So I just said, look.

I would fire you, but I didn't hire you. I'm going to pay this fine. And he's like, don't do it.

So I take off, get directions to, I have to go to another courthouse. I walked, you know, three or 400 yards. I go in through another metal detector. I go in there. I'm here to pay my fine. But then I still couldn't help it. I said, I'm paying the fine, seatbelt violation, even though I have my seatbelt on. I did say that. And so she said $50. I was like, $50? Yeah.

He said 25. Another. I was like, I'm going back to court. And the woman really thought I was serious. And I was like, I'm just kidding. But still, he did say 25. So I give the $50. As soon as I gave the $50, well, a woman who looked like she was in charge of something walked in the room and said, okay, did he pay us $50? And she was like, yep. It's like, we're going to give it back to him. We're going to take this off.

your record and you have a good duck season well then i was like you won jay that's called winning what just happened here winning did you lose or did you win well i lost and then i won but you got your money back so then i couldn't figure out what just happened

And you weren't sure if you should say anything. The upper echelon at that courthouse had a meeting. I think. To know what they're going to do with you. Here's what I think. Zach has a different theory. Here's what I think. Because at some point I called my counselor friend and I was like, what just happened? And he's like, well, what happened? I was like, well, they gave my money back.

and said, go on your way. And he's like, well, we won. Congratulations. Good cop, bad cop. I was thinking, who's the good cop? And he's like, oh, you were the good cop. I was the bad cop. We got it. And I couldn't figure out what he was talking about. I've never heard a case where the guy's doing all this stuff and you never even talked to him. You didn't even know he was going to be there. No. You should make a movie about this. But my theory is,

I think once I admitted that they had a case, and I was really impressed with the prosecutor, and I thought, okay, this is...

This is something that he believes in, and he believes this is not properly wearing your seatbelt. He has the studies. It is in the owner's manual. He made a good point that if the officer had told you what he said, you'd have just said— The officer should have said the statute says that you must have it properly fastened, and this was improper. If he'd have just said that, fine. But don't quote something that does not apply properly.

and try to hide and say that's what it says. Right. It doesn't say that. So, because I thought he was being dishonest. I think now he just doesn't know. Right. I was like, well, you need to educate it. So my theory is once I humbled myself and said, y'all are right. They said, okay, that's all we wanted to know. If we see you,

We're going to pull you over. Tell all your friends. Use your voice to tell people we will give you a ticket. Wear the seatbelt over the shoulder. It's not about the money. Now, Zach had a...

Another view of that, which he's probably right too. What was your views of that? Because we're still holding court here on Unashamed Nation. I'm going to be my verdict. Yeah, so you've got to keep in mind, like, I've done a lot of stuff with Jace over the years. So I kind of know the back end of some of his dealings, right? And I know what it would cost to get him as a spokesman for your cause or for your brand or whatever it is. And what I determined is they have –

retained Jace as a spokesman for their campaign and they paid $50 for it essentially. So they got Jace. So they got him for about 50 bucks. They got the celebrity endorsement. Jace is working cheap these days. That's what I said. Well, it actually didn't cost me 50. It cost, I mean, it was my 50 to start with. Yeah. So Jace, I have a simple question. Yeah. Would you do it again?

Well, I drove down here and I have my seatbelt over my shoulder the entire time because I just don't want to, you know. Well, I got a question for you. Who among us, and also our people watching in here, who has ever read your owner's manual? I'm just curious. Has anybody here read an owner's manual? Zach, have you ever read an owner's manual to your vehicle?

Only if I'm looking up like a specific. Trying to find a. Right. So there you go. It was, you know, looking back on it because we have to move on. I would do it again because I think it wasn't clear. It was about integrity. And I do think they should make the law. They should provide a little more clarity. I really do. Yeah. In the law. How hard is it to change that? I think all they should do is that it must be visible.

That way it would always be on your mind. Well, who knows that this will not do that? Because all this happened and you've talked about it. Because we don't want them wasting their time. So I think that would be a good enough law. I mean, a part of me, when the original idea about seatbelts came out, it was a big personal preference thing. It's my body. I can do what I want. That kind of logic. And I think that's still the underlying tension of it.

To this day. I mean, we've all basically adapted and do it, but I think it early on and in somewhere deep down is still a little bit of a freedom issue. The law man made law. I mean, it is a law now, but I'm just saying deep down, we're kind of like, you know, it's my life to choose, but. Well, right. Well, here's the spiritual application of that story. Cause I think they, in a clever way, cause somebody had a meeting about this somewhere. Yeah.

But it was a lot like coming to Jesus, you know, because in this case, I broke the law, even though it was accidentally. And we go through all this tension and arguing and a lot of man hours and all this. And then I finally just thought it's not worth it. I humble myself, said I'll pay the fine.

And then all of a sudden, here comes just redemption, grace. It's grace. It's like, you're free to go, and here's your payment back. We'll take care of it. And then I felt a lot better then about wearing my seatbelt on top of my shoulder. Yeah. So there you go. So grace wins. Yeah, grace wins. Well, our next podcast, we're going to have a guy on that wrote a book on grace, and this would have been a great, you're exactly right, this would have been a great story in his book.

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Find the detail that moves you with immersive dining experiences from Sapphire Reserve. Chase, make more of what's yours. Learn more at chase.com slash sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member of FDIC. Subject to credit approval. They weren't going to let me off. That's just because it's over. Had I not... You lost and you won. ...humbled myself. Yeah. If I wasn't to pay the fine, that we were going to court, and then I was going to have to miss my duck hunting trip, what...

I'm not that sacrifice. That cost is too great. Yeah. On that. Some judge was going to have to make the, he was going to be in the court. And if you, here's the thing, Jay's the money wasn't that big of a deal the whole time to you. But if you had gone to court and lost, you would have had to pay court calls. So that would have turned into 250 plus dollars.

Once you go into court, if you lose, you have to pay the court costs. In other words, you've got to pay for everybody's time that's in that courtroom. So you stood to lose more. By the way, if you're just in for the ride, but you're not, you have a driver and you're just sitting on his right-hand side. Are you asking for a friend? With their belt on. I reach over and I get it and I put it on. Yeah, you're supposed to wear it. Yeah. Dad's asking for a friend. Yeah.

No, I'm just saying. I mean, would they get me if I was riding along with them? They would. Maybe. They could. Legally, you're supposed to have one on two. In the front seat, it's still not a law in the back seat, right? Well, if their goal is to protect the driver, I would think it would go beyond and protect the passenger also. Well, I've got an idea. Read the owner's name.

You know, I may actually, if I can find my, you've challenged me to take a gander at one. Wasn't me. I mean, you know, you got these guys, they've heard all this before. Right. And that's what struck me.

And it was a pretty good idea. In Louisiana, all drivers and passengers must wear a seatbelt or be properly restrained in a child safety seat, regardless of their seating position. Does that include the backseat too? We're making the world a safer place. One seatbelt. So you, yeah, you are not properly restrained according to your own owner's manual. That's where they got me. That's where they got you. Yep.

But even though my counselor, he's like, wins a win. He doesn't care how we won. He was like, we would have won. No, but I like your spiritual application that you lost, but you win because you receive mercy and grace. So it didn't end up, I won, they lost. It didn't end like that.

It ended with a... I thought pretty amazing. Well, and I appreciate your being open, Daze, to his arguments and listening to him. That was good. I was impressed with the guy. I thought it was reason enough. You don't want to have this fella up battling against you. I mean, he was very prepared.

I mean, I thought I was prepared. Yeah. No. I mean, I just got... Because this was the only time you've ever done this, but he's done this a couple of times. And I couldn't blame my defense counselor because I didn't hire him. He was just sitting there watching. And he just showed up. And then when he talked, he made it so intense that...

That I was embarrassed, you know? I was like, I'm not with that guy. Wait a minute. Who is this guy? That's not what I'm saying. Don't speak for me. He broke out in rudeness. But I think that was a play by him because they battle each other all the time. Yeah, and that's what they're used to. It wasn't anything personal, but he was just like, no, we're fighting this. Yeah.

It was so funny to me. We weren't laughing because I was intense and it wasn't funny in the moment. But I look back on it. It's very funny to me. He kept whispering in my ear, but in a volume where he heard it.

When a guy was like, you're going to lose. He's like, no, you're not. That's inadmissible. He can't prove that. Smoking mirrors. I mean, it was just little. And I mean, I was like. A fake whisper. He was saying it for his benefit, but it was like, I'm telling my client. It was whispering in my ear, like at the voice I'm talking now. Like, no, you won't. Welcome to the rules of America.

Oh, man. Yeah. But there was a beauty in that somewhere in America where you have people represent you, you have the right to representation, and they're trying to enforce the law. And, I mean, you saw it work out. And they came out with a way that they thought was better to get their message out. There's a lot of, including in the book of Ephesians, there's a lot of verses about

Obeying the law. Oh, yeah. And we should always try to. I mean, law is typically good. I mean, the prisons are full.

Yeah. Yeah. Every direction. Right. Well, you have to have been better off if he had been taught as a young person all the way up. You obey the law. Yeah. Well, if Jason had gone in there, he went in with confidence because you're a law keeper by nature. I mean, none of y'all ever ended up in court except on this little caper. Well, and he didn't argue my record, nor did he argue for the law officer because he watched the footage. Right.

And I was like, if you're going to defend that, I probably would have kept going. But he didn't. He said he could have done a better job. Which was honest on his part. Well, right. He's like, he could have done. It was not clear. And so, because I was thinking, if you won't give me that, you know, I just didn't, I wasn't clear what he was saying. I never heard that. And then when I looked up the statute, it didn't say that. So moving on.

All right, so we're wrapping up Ephesians. Yeah, let's just kind of tie a bow on it. We've got a couple of segments left here in this podcast. We've got a guest coming next time. I thought we'd just kind of do a little bit of a wrap on it. We finished the text the last time that we were together, and we were talking about prayer. I felt like when we finished, we could have probably done a whole other podcast just on that, and maybe we will someday, just about the nature of prayer because it was interesting.

I think it came out, but I've thought more about it since we recorded last time. And, you know, there is something uniquely special about that communion time with the Father, Son, and Spirit in prayer. And sometimes that includes other people, too. Last time we recorded, we had some guests here.

She's battling cancer. And so, Dad, you prayed after we quit recording. And there was something there's something powerful about that, about that for them and for us and for the almighty. And I think back to that Romans 8 passage where the Holy Spirit basically it says Paul said he interprets for us.

into divine language as we're human beings so there is something you're talking about a weapon that we don't think about you know as being a weapon but it really is because it's invoking the communion of the deity into everything that's going on in our lives and so the more you do that and have that ongoing conversation the better it is and even when you get together with people you feel that power of it you know when someone prays over somebody it's very it's a very powerful thing

Oh, it's such a clutch off-season pickup, Dave. I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant those blackout motorized shades. Blinds.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install? No, it's easy. I installed these and then got some from my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install. Hall of Fame's son? They're the number one online retailer of

custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the GOAT! Shop Blinds.com right now and get up to 45% off select styles. Rules and restrictions may apply. Well, I've been studying ahead in Colossians, but even in Ephesians when we talked about the different relationships, and you see this phrase come up a lot in Ephesians, and it's a lot in Colossians also, this doing God's will. Find out what pleases the Lord. You remember Ephesians 5 and verse...

I think it's 10, 9 and 10. Yeah, 5, 10 says, and find out what pleases the Lord. And then in 6, verse 6, where it's like, and when he was going with the servants,

you know, and we talked about that, but it's like we serve, we're like servants of Christ doing the will of God from your heart. And when you combine that with knowing Christ better, that was his prayer. It made me realize, you know, when you look at your relationships, I mean, if you ask me about my wife, I know my wife better than anyone else on this planet. I mean, even her parents. We've actually been together longer than she was

With her parents. Yeah. And so when you think about that, you find out what she, I know what she likes and she,

you know, what she doesn't like. But I mean, I can give you detail after detail because that's what a loving relationship is. And part of a healthy marriage is you do things sacrificially because you know it pleases the other person. And so when I applied that to God and getting to know Jesus better, that's what really stood out to me. It's like in any loving relationship, knowing someone better,

and wanting to please them. And him, and I mean God in his complex nature of what you said, you know, we have his spirit,

He gets pleasure from us surrendering to him. And it's kind of a different take than what most people view as God is like he's up there with a gavel waiting for you to mess up. No, you're especially going to see this in Colossians. It gives him pleasure to extend us grace because of our relationship that we have.

And good point. Yeah. It's just very profound to me how personal this got when you study the whole book and you're looking at the big picture, Jesus at the right hand of God. And as we surrender and humble ourselves, kind of like what I did on the ticket, all of a sudden it provides clarity and, and just thankfulness that, okay, they're, they're,

They're wanting to be open-minded about this thing, you know. Even in this case was an accidental mistake, but it did make me look back also at the old law. Can you imagine if that was still the system? Yeah. I mean, read the book of Leviticus. If that's where it would have stayed, can you imagine? The difference is that my son said this to me before.

Just this week, he said, man, it seems like God of the Old Testament is a different God. I said, no, not at all. But he was reading through that old law. I said, you got to remember what Jesus said in Mark whenever he had to reinterpret the law for the Pharisees when they were talking about marriage and divorce. And they said, well, Moses allowed us in the law, basically allowed us to divorce our spouse, our wife,

for just by giving a certificate of divorce. And Jesus said something so profound there. He said, actually, you missed the point of the law there. That was actually a concession

that God gave you because of your hard hearts. It was never the intent of the law. And so I think when you understand like what, what did they do with the law is that they, it was all external keeping of the law, but it didn't bear fruit. So when Jesus and Mark 11, he rolls up on that fig tree and

And he curses it because it had the appearance of life because it had the leaves on it, but it didn't have any fruit. He said, may you never bear fruit again. There's a whole lot to that. But when we get to Ephesians 6, I think that helps us understand what Paul means when he says praying in verse 18 at all times in the spirit. To pray in the spirit is different than just saying a ritualistic prayer.

It's more than just I'm going to give the appearance of a prayer and I'm doing the ritual of the prayer. I'm paying the homage, doing the thing, you know, whatever it is. It's more than that. What praying in the spirit is, to your point, Jace, it is connecting with the person of God and it's it's connecting with the Holy Spirit and an image.

and having the Holy Spirit, allowing the Holy Spirit to shape our thoughts. It's the second Corinthians or first Corinthians chapter two is we have the mind of Christ now through the spirit. So his thoughts become our thoughts. His will becomes our will. His desire becomes our desire. So to pray in the spirit is it really is to look inward and to say, give me the fruit of the spirit. Thinking about that tree that didn't produce any fruit and Mark 11,

No, that's not the tree that Christ gives us. Christ gives us a tree that actually produces fruit, and it is the fruit of the Spirit. And that happens primarily through our interaction with the Holy Spirit in prayer.

And with all prayer and supplication. It's conversation. And it's the name of Jason's illustration, how the conversation is what ultimately solved the issue. Think about all the people that break the law and then don't deal with it. And then they're on the run from the conversation that can fix the situation. So it's the same thing in any relationship. It's the same thing when people have distance. I thought about when you were describing the Old Testament, Zach, I thought about David.

You know, he went through that, you know, couple of year period where he was on the run from God. He broke every law that was there. Laws that he should have been killed over by the statute. And yet, what did he do in Psalm 51? He had a conversation with God to say, you know what? I have sinned. I was wrong. There are consequences. I realize that. But all I can do is ask for your mercy. Well, he did that.

In that old system. So it shows you right there that there was a pathway to forgiveness even way back then. I had a thought, you know, because what I was trying to tell my defense lawyer when he would say like, this is inadmissible, you know, because he was just trying to win and he, this is what he does. He's defending the person and by any means necessary. Hey, if it's inadmissible, it's inadmissible. But I was like,

I don't, I don't, I'm not trying to win. I'm just trying to provide some clarity on this cause it's too confusing. And so I was, I kind of agreed with the guy that I not kind of, I agreed. I should have read my owner's manual. I was shocked that that was in there. And,

And, uh, and even the part about, you know, the studies, I mean, maybe there's something to it. I had, I hadn't found it. I had a couple of listeners that they didn't send me the actual study, but they said, I've read studies that said this, you know, so there were some, but even that, when the guy said, I said, well, I looked it up and couldn't find it. And he said, I found that in 10 minutes. And of course,

Of course, my defense guy was like, 10 minutes is an eternity on the internet, which he was right. I was like, if it took you 10 minutes to find that searching. We're busy, sir. But it made me think of this passage, and it actually goes right into what we've been talking about. In 1 Timothy 2, in verse 1, it says, I urge you, first of all, that request prayers intercession and thanksgiving

be made for everyone, for kings and all those in authority. I mean, he was talking about earthly kings and authorities. Right.

As well, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. And I actually think we had a peaceful resolution here. This is good. And this goes in with what we're talking about. And pleases God, our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. And this next verse is what I wanted to get to, because really, I've always viewed Jesus as the ultimate lawyer.

And he is. He's our lawyer between God and man because of this verse, 1 Timothy 2, 5. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men.

the testimony given in its proper time. You combine that with, remember, 1 John 2, 1 and 2, when it says, if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense, Jesus Christ, the righteous one. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. But I just thought it was interesting that it says this, you being...

praying and having a thankful heart and providing intercession, even for those with authority, it pleases God because he wants us to live peaceful and quiet lives. I had a sermon that I preached years ago

or class, I can't remember, but where basically I had Jesus in the position of everybody in an American modern courtroom situation. You know, he's the defense attorney. He's also the prosecutor of the case because he's perfect. He's the judge because ultimately he makes the decision. He's even us because he represents us in the witness box. Jesus had appeared during the talk that old slick guy

You didn't give that to your old neighbor. He had their argument. He had had Jesus there. Would it have helped?

Well, he did have him there. Based on that text you just read? I mean, I was conscious. And I'd rather Jesus be on my side. I was conscious of how I was conducting myself, but I had a weird partnership here. That you didn't realize. It wasn't so much about winning to me as it was about really finding the truth about

And how can we make the world a better place where we don't have this? Well, I told you this before. With seatbelts would be a healthier...

I think everybody agrees with that, but I got... We had a lot of people saying, yeah, he just needs to pay the fine. But I was respected in New Jersey because in our system, in the American system of justice, Jace exercised all of his rights. He has an American citizen to do what he did. And at the end of the day, he made it right with the state, which you have to do. I mean, the old deal about just running out on it and having a bunch of stuff, it's going to come back and bite you. They unveiled, too, the fact that

They weren't after the money. They were actually wanting people to... Well, that was the most impressive thing to me. That's what shocked me. Yeah. Because I think they thought...

Okay. We're after the money no matter what. Well, I think they were concerned that they would come across as just because I'm famous that they let me off. That was not an option. So they made that clear. I mean, they knew who I was and didn't care, which is fine. That wasn't why I was— Which should be that way. Oh, I was supportive of that. And like I said, we've said it all along. It's not even about the money with you, Jace. I've seen you give a $100 bill to a kid that—

clean your golf clubs just oh yeah you wanted to bless him so exactly it's not it wasn't the even the dollar amount it was what was there yeah I really was personally convicted by I just felt like if I'm going to get a ticket based on

something that's deceitful i'm gonna fight that you know if you're and and that prosecutor actually agreed with me he's like he should have done a better job of saying what the problem with this is right uh because it it looked bad for him to quote a statute and say that's what it says and that and then it doesn't say that and that was back to my point about how conversations provide clarity and

And clarity brings things to resolution. I think that's the exact same thing. But I want to say this. I'm not throwing him under the bus because the way the system works, and he provided some clarity on this. You know, they're out there. He couldn't see the seatbelt, which was frustrating. So it's like I either didn't have it on or I was wearing it improperly. So I was going to get a ticket no matter what was said.

And you see what I'm getting at? Right. But from the prosecutor's point of view, he's like, okay, he could have done a better job. But that's over. You admitted it. The facts are the facts. Yeah. You're going down. Right. So it's like, you can make that case. Which, by the way, is what law does. That's the nature of law. Exactly. Well.

Well, a good question for you, for the audience is, are you sad or are you glad that this conversation is over? Or mad. Or mad. Or mad. You could be one of the three. All right. So we got a couple of minutes left. I was flying 36,000 feet. And this was my postscript on Ephesians.

So I'm going to give this so we can officially tie the bow on it because our next time we get into a study, we've got a guest on the next podcast, but we'll be in Colossians. So here's the thing. Ephesians 1.17, that we would get to know Jesus better. I feel like, Jason, after we studied the book, that's the best line that really is the theme. And it wouldn't have been mine going into the study once we were through. So that's my key thought. So here it was, Ephesians 1.3-14.

The plan, the price, and the pledge, I know it's alliteration, but that is Jesus and the Holy Spirit. For our redemption, transformation, glorification, it's Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Those first few verses, if you miss that, you miss everything. Ephesians 1.15 through 2.10 was then the proceeds of that for us. What does that mean to us when we know Jesus and the Holy Spirit? We have intercession, reconciliation.

with the Godhead itself. We have power that comes from him. And then we have grace, which we'll talk about on the next podcast. Ephesians 2, 11 through 22 is the peace that comes about because of that. And that's that connection and unity that we were just talking about. And he talked about Jew and Gentile, but in the text, we talked about that with any divided parties. Yeah. It can be brought to all humans can come together and come together. Ephesians 3, 1 through 21 says,

are then the proceeds that happen as a result of that piece. And that was new revelation, new purpose, new confidence, new intercession. All those things were in that text.

Then here's the thing in the last three chapters. He talked about unity. As a result of that, he talked about lifestyle that we got into, what that looks like. He talked about submission. And then he had three illustrations, marriage, family, and then our work situation, whatever that is. And I would say relationships. Any relationships. And then 6, 10 through 20 was the battle that's there because there is a battle ongoing. And then we looked at our enemy, our

our armor, and then ultimately prayer, which is the ultimate weapon. So that's my kind of wrap on the book. And I would say it's noteworthy. I've heard this many times, but it's true. All that weaponry that God provides that in essence is Jesus, you being in Jesus, none of them were designed for your backside.

This is not. We move forward. We stand and we move forward. Great point. Declaring the gospel. Which means we're not running away. We're not running away. So being in Christ is synonymous with being used by God to make his presence known. And you can't do that by putting a bowl on.

over a light or hiding out. I mean, and so I think that's a profound way for us to realize that. That's great. All right. Well, that's it. We're out of time. The, uh, that's, I would say it's the last you'll ever hear about Jason's case, but no,

Knowing us, I'm sure it's going to pop up somewhere in the future, but it has been settled. So thank you, Unashamed Nation, for all of your opinions. And there were many, but we love that and we love you guys. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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