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Hi, I'm Megan, and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you.
Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This show is presented by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit foundation whose mission is to promote a high-performing, equitable healthcare system.
The Commonwealth Fund supports research to improve health care policy and practice and has a long history of exploring what the U.S. can learn from the best health care around the world to do better here at home, especially for people of color, people with low income, and those who are uninsured. To learn more, visit CommonwealthFund.org. Lemonada.
For as long as I can remember, people who have been talking about this aging demographic shift have compared it to natural disasters of different sorts, like the silver tsunami, the age wave. There's so many metaphors that I've read. I'm like, wow, this is someone's had a lot of fun with, with the imagery of this doom, right, that's coming. And it's always some kind of major change.
natural disaster. And I think the only way that it's a disaster is actually man-made. It's unnatural. This is an opportunity, a massive opportunity for a long overdue culture change. This is Uncared For. I'm your host, Sujin Park.
As a country, we are older than we've ever been. One out of six Americans are over 65, and that number is only expected to increase over the next few decades. So how are we going to care for everyone, especially when family caregivers and professional care workers alike are already stretched thin?
Our guests today believe we have to change the way we value caregiving to see it as the backbone of our country, the literal infrastructure holding everything up. And then we need to invest in it. We'll hear from Katrina Muzan, a professional care worker. She knows firsthand how low wages and long hours take a toll on caregivers. It'll burn you out because your clients need you and more clients need you. So I'll probably work.
But first, we'll turn the mic back to Ai-jen Poo, who you heard from up top. Ai-jen is the president of the National Domestic Workers Alliance and author of The Age of Dignity, Preparing for the Elder Boom in a Changing America. She knows the ins and outs of the problems stacked against caregivers today and the long overdue policy solutions we need to support them. So, what's the problem?
Can you give me a sense of the scale around how much older we are becoming as a country and what this means? Like, what is at stake? Because they're not just numbers, right? That's right. Can you talk about that? Yeah, the big picture there. Basically, what has happened is we today, 10,000 people will turn 65 and 10,000 babies will be born, give or take.
We have experienced such advances in healthcare and technology that people are living longer than we ever could have imagined. We have more generations to care for and less care to offer because most people, most adults work outside of the home just to make ends meet.
So we've got 53 million overstretched working family caregivers, more than 7 million underpaid professional care workers. This social worker named Jessica Calarco often says other countries have a safety net and the U.S. has women.
Because the overwhelming number of those family caregivers are women and the overwhelming number of the professional care workers are also women and majority women of color. So we are in a situation where we are a country that needs more care than ever before and we have less of it. Women and women of color are filling the gaps and it's completely unsustainable.
Just take a moment and let that sink in. As a country, we are facing a massive aging population. And yet, we are relying on unpaid family caregivers and underpaid care workers to simply handle it. Before we get deeper into all of that, I wanted to know how Ai-jen's passion for this issue started. Like most of us, her first introduction to care began in childhood.
Now, let's talk about growing up. I know that you talk a lot about this care village that was around you with your grandparents. Tell me, what did that early on experience teach you about caregiving?
Well, all of my grandparents played a really significant role in raising me, as did my parents and a village of aunties and uncles. I have no idea who was actually a blood relative, who wasn't. And I think it really normalized this idea that care really is this collective endeavor where there's lots of people of different generations who are involved and should be involved, and that's part of what makes it important.
Beautiful. I feel like that's such a more common experience outside of this country, living with your grandparents and where aging is just part of life.
There's no separation. Yeah. No, it's so true. The siloing that we have, even the definition of what is a nuclear family is pretty recent in this country. And in lots of immigrant communities, communities of color, rural communities, it is a very intergenerational model of living. And it's so natural and normalized that we don't even think of it as intergenerational. It's just...
How we live. I mean, I just like the richness of growing up around my grandparents is something I would just never trade. Yeah. Tell me about that. Tell me about your grandparents and what your relationship with them was like. What did that look like? Life look like for you with them?
Well, they were revered as elders in the family, the wisdom, the authority. There's enormous power with having walked this earth for many, many years. And so, you know, I just, I wanted to be just like my grandmothers, you know.
and I looked forward to when one day little ones would revere me. You know, my grandmother has so many sayings and mantras that I still live with today. Like a big one for her was about the importance of laughter and joy and
She believed deeply like in her heart of hearts that if you laugh like big belly laughs three times a day, you will live longer. You will have a different quality of life. By the way, she's right. Yeah.
You know, I think I read it was maybe an interview that you did or an article about this gendered work. Right. And talk about who is doing this work today. And then number two, how does the devaluing, how does that practically show up when it comes to this demographic of people who are doing this work?
So when I think about caregiving, it's a whole spectrum of paid and unpaid care that we're reliant upon. So we have all of these family caregivers, about 70% of whom are women, and they're
11 million of them are sandwich generation. So they're both parents of young children and they're caring for their parents. That panini squeeze effect of pressures from both sides of the generational spectrum. Then you have the professional care workforce of early childhood educators, childcare workers, direct care workers of different types. And
Everyone in the professional care workforce is underpaid and it's vast majority women, over 80% women and majority women of color who do this work. In fact, the care workforce is where the largest concentration of black women are in the entire economy. So
The reality is that you're almost punished for working in the care economy because you are supporting the dignity of our elders and you're making it possible for our loved ones with disabilities to live full, whole lives in the community. And you're paid less than $12 an hour, oftentimes. The median annual income for a home care worker in America today is $23,000 per year.
So the people that we are counting on to care for the people that we love as their profession can't care for themselves on the income that they earn. And that is actually what is so powerful about the potential for change here, is when we invest in care work and making care jobs good jobs,
It has this incredible ripple effect across so many communities and throughout our economy that I think is just so powerful to think about. Yeah, I think I read somewhere where you were saying that this is the work that makes all other work possible. And you were equating it with infrastructure, right? And I was like, whoa.
That like blew my mind. Can you just like make that connection for everybody else listening that hasn't heard it framed in that way before? - The definition of infrastructure really is the systems
and the workforce that enables everything in society and the economy to function. It's the scaffolding that makes everything else possible. And so we often associate it with bridges and tunnels, but it's also broadband. It's also transportation systems, other utilities. If that is the definition of infrastructure, what could be more essential and fundamental to
than access to care. And Senator Casey actually said it really well. He had a floor speech one day when we were talking about the infrastructure bill. He said, the thing is, is that some people need a bridge or a tunnel to get to work and other people need childcare and other people need home care.
We think about care somehow as like some soft, special interest issue, you know, like some nice to have. But it's like, where would we be without care? We wouldn't exist. I mean, can you imagine if caregivers everywhere took the day off? We wouldn't be able to function as a country. It's that simple.
Up next, we'll learn what it's like to be a care worker today from someone with firsthand experience. Katrina Mouzan is a professional home care worker dedicated to her clients because she knows she's sometimes all they have. You just can't be like, oh, I'm going to leave. Oh, I don't want to do this. You know, you're the only person that really cares. So what can you do? You know, that's when we come back.
Voices matter. Stories create change. And perspectives are powerful. That's what the team at the Commonwealth Fund believes. And it's why they make space for the stories of people who have been affected by the inequities in our health care system. And for the voices of those working to root out racism in health care. Their Advancing Health Equity Instagram account shares news, lifts perspectives, and publishes data on the state of health equity in the U.S.,
Follow them on Instagram at Advancing Health Equity to keep a pulse on one of the most important issues at hand right now.
I'm Hasan Minhaj, and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast, Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know, to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are way too afraid to ask. People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy? Outrageous. Parenting expert Dr. Becky.
How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath? It's a good question. Listen to Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know from Lemonada Media, wherever you get your podcasts.
For many professional care workers, their work is their calling. They dedicate their days to looking after other people's loved ones. And this isn't easy work. The days can be long, physically exhausting, and emotionally demanding. Through her work, Ai-jen hears many stories from professional care workers. I was just having dinner with a home care worker who told me that
the family of the client that she cares for who has Alzheimer's
They often forget that she doesn't take her medicine unless it's in applesauce. And there's only a certain kind of flavored applesauce that she will accept her medicine inside of. And the family just is not paying attention to those details. So out of her $12 an hour paycheck, she buys blueberry flavored applesauce
every single week to make sure that her client is able to take her meds. And that kind of thoughtfulness and love that is a part of, is like mission critical to being a successful care worker is invaluable. And yet we are compensating people at poverty wages. ♪
It's blueberry applesauce, but it's also making a client feel supported and seen. Care workers often go above and beyond like this, and yet wages are abysmally low. Like Ai-jen shared before, the median annual income is just $23,000 per year.
Ai-jen's organization, the National Domestic Workers Alliance, is trying to change that by advocating for basic labor protections, including a domestic workers' bill of rights to ensure fair wages. Ai-jen connected me to a care worker, Katrina Muzan, based in Charlotte, North Carolina. I wanted to talk to Katrina to hear what her side of the care conversation looks like.
You know, for those of us that aren't caregivers or don't have experience working with a caregiver, what does a caregiver do? Being a caregiver to me, I feel like I'm more than a caregiver. I become like family. It's a lot of duties. So the main duties when you walk into someone's house, like it's like, okay, so you got to do bed baths.
showers, bench care, light housekeeping, laundry. You got to take them to the doctors or, you know, just companionship. Doing one-on-one with somebody, you get to know who they are. You get to know, like, how they feeling. You get to know, you get to know their whole family dynamic. Like what's really going on in the house.
You get to see how people actually are. You got to deal with the sadness of the client. You got to deal with the attitudes of the kids or the husband or whatever. You got to deal with a nasty house. You got to deal with the dog, the cat. You know, you become, you know what I'm saying? You become, you become the confident. You become who they depend on. Yeah.
Um, let's talk about some of the kind of logistics of home care. Um, and, and I want to talk about specifically your work with the agency. How many hours did you work a week? How much were you paid? Do you feel like you, the, the pay was fair? Can we get into some of just like the nitty gritty, the details of, of caregiving? Okay. So, um,
Feel like I was paid what I was worth? No. As a caregiver, you would never get paid what you're worth. Like, I think that's on any job, you know. So just imagine working 70 hours a week, coming home, still got to cook, still got to be a mother. The pay was horrible. Like, you got to clean somebody's behind. You got to get mentally abused, you know what I'm saying, because some of them mad. You got to do so much things for people.
And since you were purposely made for it, I feel like you can't argue about it. You can't really get mad about it. You just got to do it. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's so shocking to me about how many hours that you work for how much pay. I think you don't even understand it until you sit with a caregiver or even look over the statistics because it's not just you. It's across the board. Right.
I want to ask, you know, this work is some of the hardest work out there. It's demanding, it's underpaid, it's high stress. So how do you maintain boundaries or is that something that you're working on? How do you, you know, separate work from that, you know, the person that you are?
So setting boundaries was something I had to work on. I have kids, but when my client calls or when they need me, I got to stop what I'm doing and go run to their aid because I know they don't have nobody. You know, and I got to tell my kids, like, listen, Christmas time come.
Christmas morning. Some days I couldn't have been here and watched them open up their Christmas presents because my client needed somebody to take them to the bathroom or change their diaper. So I had to learn to say no. And I had to learn to know that it's OK for me to say no without feeling like, dang, I disappoint them. So that's when I learned boundaries, when I figured out, look, my kids need me just as much as you need me.
This is what it means to be a caregiver. So often you feel pulled in multiple directions to look after others, not to mention even taking a minute to look after yourself. When I asked Katrina what keeps her going in this work, she didn't hesitate with her answer. The reason? Her clients. One client in particular stands out. Before Katrina began working with him, she says he hadn't been able to take a shower for years. He had a good family.
But his family couldn't put him in the shower. And I love challenges, especially when it comes down to the health care field. So I gave him his first shower for two after two years, you know, and he was like he was so thankful. And that put a smile on my face that I'm able that God gave me strength to be able to do things like this. You know, I'm saying just simple as a shower.
You know what I'm saying? We take so much things for granted, but being in the health field, like, that just humbled me so much. Like, this is what you're supposed to do. Caregivers like Katrina put their whole heart and spirit into this work, and it's about time we start valuing it. When we come back, we'll hear from Ai-jen about how we as a country can better care for the caregivers.
Hello, I'm Joel Breveld, medical myth buster and host of The Dose, a health policy podcast from the Commonwealth Fund. Each season, I sit down with a leading health policy expert and medical professionals to have real conversations about the issues that keep them up at night. We talk about breakthroughs in their research and their new ideas to make our health care system work better for all Americans. This idea of equity needs to be taken up by everyone.
And wherever you are in your work, whatever sector that you're in, we need to have conversations about what tomorrow looks like. I hope you'll check out The Dose and enjoy listening to our interviews. You can find us at thedose.show or by searching your podcast app for The Dose from the Commonwealth Fund.
An Australian hiker travels to the American West to walk a wilderness trail. Wasn't afraid to be out on his own. But Eric Robinson vanished in the high Uinta Mountains. I remember thinking, Eric, what were you thinking, mate?
I'm Dave Colley. Join me on my podcast, Uinta Triangle, where I travel the world to answer the question, what happened to Eric Robinson? Follow Uinta Triangle, that's U-I-N-T-A Triangle, on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.
Care jobs are one of the fastest growing categories of work today. It makes sense, right? With the booming elder population, these are the jobs in demand. In my conversation with Ai-jen, she told me how we can ensure these are actually good jobs for the workers and their clients.
We're going to need a lot more care, and it's already showing up in the kind of rates of job growth in the home care workforce. It's consistently one of the fastest growing occupations in the world.
So we've got a workforce where the demand is increasing. They're not going to be outsourced. They're not going to be automated. These are, whether you like it or not, going to be a huge share of the jobs of the future. And we have to make them good jobs. And the thing about it that is really powerful is that we could. It's actually not that complicated. And what I mean by that is...
70% of home care workers in America right now work through the Medicaid program. The Medicaid system currently is set up to support nursing home care as opposed to home care. So we've got this need to really build out the home and community-based care system and
But we have it in a lot of places and we have the seeds of it across the country. If we put more funding into the Medicaid program, we could actually build out that infrastructure and build out that workforce to have good pay, living wages, family sustaining wages, benefits, job security, and actually make this a profession that people aspire to enter into.
I want to linger a moment here on what Ai-jen shared about investing in Medicaid. More investment would mean better conditions for workers and the people they care for. ♪
We've talked before on this show about how Medicaid, not Medicare, does cover long-term care for people over 65 with low incomes. But the reality is many people just aren't eligible. So we need more options. If we can find new ways to support long-term care on a federal and state level, we can help people continue to live and age safely in their homes.
One state, Washington, is already on it. They have a new long-term care insurance program available to the public.
Washington state, as of July of last year, became the first state to begin implementing a long-term care benefit in the country. Yeah, no, tell everyone, like, what is this program? Because it is the only, the first. Can you tell us a little bit briefly about how the state program works? It's called Washington Cares, WAC Cares.
And there's a website, you can look up more information about it. But basically, it's a social insurance program. It's kind of like Social Security, where you pay into a fund, and then eventually you'll be eligible for a long term care benefit and benefits.
It's not an unlimited amount of money, but it really does help. What this benefit does is it supports people who need long-term care but are not eligible for Medicaid to be able to pay for it. And because it's a fund, a pooled fund, the way social insurance works, it's
It's basically everybody contributes and then everybody can have access. So it's really exciting. I think if we had a long-term care benefit in this country that helped family caregivers pay for, helped all of us really pay for our long-term care needs, that could be a total game changer.
And so, yes, everybody's got to vote and everybody's got to let their candidates and elected officials know that you care about care, that you're a care voter and you expect them to support us to take care of the people that we love. Okay, good. We've got the assignment. Yes. We are ready. We are ready and motivated after this conversation. Thank you.
Like Ai-jen said, there are other states following Washington's lead to prioritize care. For example, New York and Pennsylvania are considering programs similar to WA Cares. Of course, policy changes are where we can have the greatest impact. But I also wanted to know what Ai-jen thought we could do on an individual level to make caregiving easier. What advice do you have for those of us, myself included, who want to plan ahead for our own care?
Well, I believe that it really starts with having the conversation now when you're not in the midst of a crisis and approach it with real curiosity. Like, what would it look like to actually be cared for in the way that feels comfortable and that feels like home to me?
And have that conversation with increasing circles of loved ones, people that you trust, who you know in some way are going to be a part of your care squad, your care team, your care network. And the more you start to create and socialize a climate of having conversations about care, then the more normalized it becomes for
in your life and in your planning. And I would say that the most important thing is to really resist the isolation of it all, to really be in it with the people that you love and trust, and to find safe spaces and expand those spaces to talk about what you need.
I love Ai-jen's advice for these conversations, to approach them with curiosity, to keep these conversations ongoing with your care squad, the people that are there to support you.
Despite all of the challenges facing caregivers today, I love the conversation with Ai-jen feeling optimistic about the future. There's joy and meaning in this work. And instead of looking at the elder boom as a crisis, we can look at it as an opportunity. That's not to say policy changes will be easy, but it's critical that we rethink how we value caregiving, that we see it not as an individual issue, but as a collective responsibility.
It's on us to make these jobs and family roles both dignified and sustainable. When we look after caregivers, when we recognize the power of this work, we also ensure our older loved ones get the best possible care. There's more Uncared For with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like unaired interview clips from caregivers across the country. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts.
Uncared for is a production of Lemonada Media. I'm your host, Sujan Pak. Muna Danish is our supervising producer. Lisa Fu and Hannah Boomerschein are our producers.
Our mix is by Ivan Kurayev. Our music is by Andrea, Kristen's daughter and Hansdale Sue. Our associate producer is Isaura Aceves. Jackie Danziger is our VP of narrative content. Executive producers are Jessica Cordova-Kramer and Stephanie Whittleswax. This season of Uncared For is presented by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit foundation making grants to promote an equitable, high-performing healthcare system.
Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. You can follow me on Instagram at Sujin Park and Lemonada at Lemonada Media across all social platforms. Follow Uncared for wherever you get your podcasts and listen ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week.
This show is presented by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit foundation whose mission is to promote a high-performing, equitable healthcare system.
The Commonwealth Fund supports research to improve health care policy and practice and has a long history of exploring what the U.S. can learn from the best health care around the world to do better here at home, especially for people of color, people with low income, and those who are uninsured. To learn more, visit CommonwealthFund.org.
Hey, I'm Nicole Norfleet. And I'm Aaron Brown. And we work at the Minnesota Star Tribune. And we've got a brand new show called Worth It. Every week, we get together with a group of people who know Minnesota inside and out. We skip the Minnesota nights and get right to the good stuff. We share the stories and the happenings around the state worth your time and your money. Worth It from the Minnesota Star Tribune and Lemonada Media. Every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts.