16 | Conspiracy
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Ten years ago today Marks the last time anybody.

Specially are calling this in person.

And is Terry granted from table foot TV in atlantic? This is up and vanished. The investigation of terror. Instate, i'm your host. Pin lenzing. When I first had out to make this podcast, I had no idea what I was doing or getting myself into, and since then has been a role cust ride of twist in terms, and also an emotional experience, unlike anything i've ve ever been apart of.

I told you guys in episode won the I to a fan of other true crime podcast and documentary, one of which was the HBO series called the drinks. This series was one of my biggest inspirations and trying to solve a mystery of my own. Do you haven't seen the jinks yet? I don't want to spoil IT, but my friend mah described as the best.

It's like that big foot show. If they actually found big foot at the end, the genes without a doll has the most commented and impacting ending of any true crime series ever. A few months ago, the shows creator mark smuggling reached out to me.

He was a fan of up vanished. And like me, he was also a filmmaker. Turn pod caster, his pocket called crime town is fantastic and was also his first time taken on the medium over the past few months. We kept in touch on the day of ryan dux arrest. He called me.

right.

tell me everything this morning I did. I told him the story we all now know, and I ask him for advice on how to proceed with the podcast. The arrest was a huge break in this case, and the entire trajectory of my investigation has changed. But story wasn't over.

And, you know, things started to do.

and that's just sad. We always feel that, right, right? Like you get to do now.

You do IT now. But i'm not thing a lot more. I for the bus .

and settled a bit. I called mark again. Talk about where things will go from here.

Inevitably, you become emotionally entangled in the story, not just about telling a great story anymore. It's about sort of being part of the story, even though sometimes I don't put myself in the story, the drinks was unique that way. But ultimately, you you're emotionally entangled with the people who are telling you their stories, and that's a powerful relationship.

And you become an expert, right? Because you're talking everybody. You become an expert. I talk to people all day long about providence road island. It's kind of crazy. And some of these people are not in the show or their interviews are in the past, but they're still giving me information and these conversations are still I was sort of influencing the way the shows developed, the story we're telling, you know but and sometimes it's just two guys talking or going and girl talking about something they really know well.

I was driving back from a sila self georgia last night, like one in the morning. I was like, what am I do and where am I right now? What what the hell my doing? What was I doing down here? It's like become such a fog of just, you know, going back and forth and ever have a moment where you're like, what the hell am I doing?

I feel very much the same way. I mean, I think one thing that attracted me to you show is that the way you are treating your sources and how you are speaking to people and how you are telling the story, I was extremely empathetic. You know, you you have away with dealing with sources that I think opens people up rather than closing them down.

And that's what I try to do as well. So I saw, uh, sort of fellow traveller and you know you goes through the roller coaster of talking to people. You know, i've had people in this story and past stories that were crime stories that I talked to a very long time, built a real relationship with, and was never able to get them to sit in front of the camera or sit for an audio interview.

That happens. You know, that's part of IT. That roller coast to ride IT is emotional.

The only thing you learn from doing IT more than once is that time is your friend. So you know, time eventually irons out all the bumps in the road. But it's a long journey. And every time I sit down to do this and I or I get together with a broadcaster, somebody, and they're like, we wanted this thing delivered in six months or three months, unlike that's not possible because the relationship building takes so much time, and that's where you get the good story. By building those relationships.

you can learn as you go navigate through the case, kind of become friends with some of these people and trying to find a way to get these people to talk. But at a certain point, you feel like you're close to them. And the way you are looking at going into IT was not the same. Have way .

through yeah yeah I know you're saying, I mean, pain is all about like there's looking for the story, the answers of the the obvious story, like who did what to do and what crime was was committed and how was committed and all the thirties and outs of the sherlock homes part of the story. But there is also this underlying story that much more important, and that's the emotional connections to the material, to the story itself.

You know, the people who are affected and the people who are continuing to be affected. That's where you get the really good stories. And that's what cereal does.

That's what you're doing you that's what the drinks did. IT IT transcends the mere mystery of IT, the idt v of IT. And he tries to build a story out of the emotional connections with characters who are telling their stories.

I think that's huge, you know. And that only comes from building a relationship over time. You know, I remember i'm somebody telling me one that once you do one of these shows, you're going to be in these people's lives forever.

And that's just part parcel to doing what you're doing right now. And that's true. I can actually test to that know these people are part of your life forever.

It's been a wild experience, honestly. I mean, in a way, I kind of knew what I was kidding myself into at the same time, I really didn't either. Experiencing at first hand is is just extremely different, how you envision IT, I get tons of emails, what people asking me, how to get started if they want to do something similar to this, if they want to make a documentary on a cold case or anything in this genre, investigative journalism.

So that is hard to give them the answer to that because I just picked up and did IT. I didn't really read anything about IT. I was a fan of shows like the drinks and cereal, and I just kind of took what i've learned from being a fan of watching the mystery unfold and turn into the creator.

Parmiter says, just pick up and do IT. But beyond that, know, what are the rules here? what? What are the guidelines? What are you looking for? I mean, when you set out to do something.

you had a moment along your way where you I think that regardless of whether you guys you know ended up you pulling curtain back on who a murder tera, um you certainly had a huge influence on the entire story, right the reality of IT that that when he gets really interesting, right, when you start your story telling starts to affect the world outside, you know, which happened in the drinks and certainly happened and with up and vanished and is sort happening providence too because, you know, there's a lot to talk up and prevents about this show.

It's extraordinary popular up there and its people are really, really talking about IT. So it's IT hopefully is making people think about the community they live in. But that's an interesting moment is when he crossed is over to reality, you know, back from reality goes to a storytelling and then back to reality. That's that's when you know you really made an impact.

If you haven't already, you need to check out Marks. Podcast called crime town. It's a capitation portrait of organized crime and providence road island. The question that's been growing in the back of my minds is the arrest is where we go from here. The goal is to make sure we can bring just as for terror and to tell the whole story, leaving no stone unturned.

Terrorist disappearance affected so many lives of the past decade, not just that ever loved ones in the town of osi ler, but also those who were accused. And through all of that, everyone was wrong. The names of ryan and bow had never even been mentioned.

But now that the truth is emerging in this case, I felt like I was time to retrace some steps to hear first hand from some of those who have been affected by all the rumors over the years, terrors x boyfriend Marcus harper, arguably, and dirt, a lot of scrutiny, and possibly the most. And some of terrors last documented communication was to his mother, Nancy, in those emails. Since just days before he disappeared, there were just so many unanswered tions, but today we can finally get some answers. While in oslo last week, mark sapperment mother, Nancy redmon, invited me into her home and told me her story about everything.

All of my memories of her are very precious, and it's really hard to sit here and say all of the memories of her or precious, because there are no more she's gone. I mean, now I have those that SHE was a beautiful person and I enjoyed all of my times with her. We had a lot of time when I was just SHE anie, because my husband would be working in a way, and of course, my sun was away.

So we would do cooking in, we have our dinner together, and we put in a movie and and just do girl talk, just talking and laugh, you know, because I don't know, some people knew this, but she's very humorous. He loved to live. And so we talk about something, you know, that was funny, or what some comedy I could tell.

He was a very organized person in a good school. Teacher SHE talked about her students and what they met to her, and how hard he worked to teach her glasses as he went beyond. And I respected her for that.

admired for that. He described me the last time he had seen terror, just a week before he went missing here, came over to her house unannounced. And what to transpired that day stuck with her forever.

I looked out the window and I saw standing out in my yard. And so I went out, see you in in high terror, you know, you know, he said, I came to to say goodbye, an ency. And I said to say goodbye, what do you mean?

I just need to say goodbye to you. And I see what? We'll see one another again. We live in a small town, and i'm sure we'll run into each other.

And when we do, i'll say, hi, terror, how are things go in in? We will embrace each other things. I'll always be the same there.

And he just really wanted me to know that he needed to put closure to IT and maybe he did need that closure. But to me, what I heard was IT was something final. IT really frightened me. I've never heard of speaking in this way before .

that have frightened then or now.

I didn't understand IT then. IT was strange. I just felt something different. I just felt strange and I didn't understand IT. But now when I look back in, I think about that time IT might sound weird, but IT gives me a little comfort to know that actually he did get say goodbye to me even though that's not the way SHE mean IT that day.

You think you just meant trying to move on from Marcus? Maybe.

probably, but you know, I really don't know. I can explain IT, but I can only tell you how how I felt that day. But I did embrace her and, you know, I told her I loved her. Yeah and like I said, I I didn't know what I really meant. IT was just something that's always been a thought.

One of the biggest things we've discussed over the course of this podcast, we're terrors emails to Nancy, in one in particular, seem sort of alarming in an email terror. Said this to nci, just days before SHE you went missing just for my market, is what I said about something happening to me, or even him. He leaves IT as this, and something may happen to me. I ask Nancy about this. What do you mean about that?

Do you think? Well, I can really tell you what I know. Okay, SHE just did want things to stay the way that was.

He just wanted one more last chance to say something nice, whatever IT would be. I don't know what he would have said, but but that was not in a threatening manner. That was not in A A dark manner. I feel that that statement was just sometimes like we have our family member before we live in the morning. We had some of us to do that because we don't know what the days gonna ld, you don't know if you're gonna see your loved one when night falls. And I think that's sort of what you made at the like I said, only terrero really knew what you mean, but I don't take that is a dark in a destructive of a plan yeah, that he had or anything at that nature IT just .

seemed as a whole, most of the emails that he had sent to you in the weeks of october just seemed to show that he really was upset SHE. SHE really was emotionally destroy about the break up and trying to get over IT and figuring out what to do. And he was really confidence in you with a lot of that stuff.

Well, I really didn't have a lot of contact with her. You know, when you read words, it's not quite as David is when you're sitting at cross the tables from someone, right? But I feel like he was hurt.

Of course any of us would be, you know, but I feel like there are was gonna be okay IT was just gonna take some time like any of us. Those type things happen all the time. They do break up and hurt.

But you know, we get up and we move on. And so I thought that everything was gonna okay. One day.

the day you found out about the the arrest of ryan duke, can you describe to me that day for you in whatever way you can?

When I first heard the news, my knees were weak. IT was just incredible news that I just did believe what I was hearing. IT was unbelievable.

I mean, I went to the press conference, but I remember sitting there and and hearing the words, and I thought, IT is possible for a hard to feel two emotions. At one time I was rejoicing. One sid of my heart, in the other was morning incident morning.

Because all these years I held on the hope that somewhere out there he could be just, you know, starting a new life. I mean, it's not too bizarre. And this day was all final.

That was yet there was the answer. And so something that I had never been able to do personally was to grieve because I held onto the hope. And then, of course, to hear the ones that had been accused now is innocent, because those words, terrorist case is solved. unbelievable. IT was a miracle.

How do you feel when you saw ryan do in the courtroom?

Well, I had so many questions as the first thing I thought about his own. My goodness, there he is. why? Why did he kill her? What in the world happened? I know we're all thinking this because we can't know the answers to these questions yet.

I was disturbed. I was disturbed when I was like a dream. I was looking at him as he was standing there. Of course, I will study in all the manor's, ms, and everything. And about there is, there is that's what happened to tera.

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Back in nance's home, I asked one more important question before I left. What kind of impact has terrorist disappearance had on your family's life?

Well, I want to say, you know, have a lot of fate and control to be strong, but we're still human. You know, like i'd told you before, my dad passed away in twenty fifteen, and IT would have been wonderful if he could have known. But the sign goes for terrorist matter.

Of course, IT would have been wonderful if her mother could have actually had any answers. IT was devastating. Absolutely devastating is all I can think about. I don't know how I say IT every weekend day, every weekend hour. I mean, IT was there every day.

And yeah, the thoughts were, where is SHE, what happened? But still hold on to the hope maybe somebody i'll see you somewhere or maybe they will find or maybe she's gonna be OK. That was the hope that IT didn't turn out that way.

It's horrible. You know, we're grieving. We're grieving because now we have the answer.

How did you feel when people tossed around Marks's name and you knew that your son was innocent?

Very helpful. Your helpless, there's nothing you can say, there's not anything that you can do is going to make IT right into the for the people that wanted to think the way that they were thinking to have to live every day, even to go into the small town where some business would have to be conducted.

And you maybe would have heard this one saying that this person is saying that you should just try to be quiet, you just try to keep moving, you just try to keep surviving. But IT hurt. yeah.

I would have people to alert me when there is gonna be a show on television. And naturally, it's like anxiety begin to build, and my heart would start racing. And I would think, but I don't want to watch IT because I know what it's gonna about, going to say a something about my son and most of the time I didn't watch IT. Sometimes I would.

how do you keep promoters yg on the streets that my son is innocent.

is trying to stay in control, just trying to do what would be best, just trying to make a good decision that one day, hopefully, that the faith that I had, that I would all come full circle, that one day the answers is, would come. Then I was surely hoping that they would come before I passed away. You know, my dad is already gone.

Terrorist mm, gone. But hopefully the answers would come soon. But IT was, who would have ever imagined that we would have an answer? smile? I mean, it's unreal that we may not have all the answers now, but we know I trust the g bi.

Do you think that they're not knowing everybody in this town warning answers and pointing blame on Marcus or anybody else? Do you think that kind of made a divide in this community at always?

Oh yes, say, I don't know who those teams are, so to speak. I don't know who those sides are. I could feel IT, but I just try to keep to myself to tell you the truth.

No, I didn't lock myself in my home now. But there are the places to travel. There are are the places to visit. The other wasn't reason. Like I said a lot of times, I could make another choice to go the opposite direction is sad to say, but that's what I did.

Lots of people just wanted to talk about IT wanted to talk about the negativity, you know, and they may not have mitchin certain names, but I was still negative. I was trying to keep myself as positive as I could, praying and believing in faith, and just hope that one day this would all come full circle. But there's nothing you can do when there's people doing all that type of talking.

And with this television programs that are on occasionally and especially every fall, you know you kind of make you draw that even though fall is one of my favorite seasons, but I knew what was common. So you draw ded IT SHE could have had a good life if the horrible thing had not happen. I really believed that he would have been okay one day. Yeah.

he could have had a future.

We'll never know that. And like I say, it's hard. It's hard to sit here and up to you about this because it's over.

She's not here. SHE will not be with us anymore. It's all truly memories.

Now IT was always hope, and now there isn't. That was taken away. And that's when the grief started.

And IT was the same day that I had the rejoicing, because those innocent, including my son, were cleared. How I feel, oh, that feels absolutely amazing. IT is equally amazing, as IT is in the other being devastating.

IT is amazing. IT was just a miracle. I imagined that happening in my mind. I would imagine how that would happen, but i'll tell you this, one of my little thoughts ahead one day was that he came to visit me and SHE came inside her house.

And when he did, I lot the door because I was going to make sure SHE stayed with me until I could let someone know that he was here. Yeah, she's here. Like I said, I can imagine what her dad, her step mom, must be feeling.

I feel really fail for her dad first day at mom, but her said, this was her daddy. That's what he called in her daddy. You know, pain that would be so nice. This is just a statement coming from a mom yeah, IT would be so nice.

And I know we don't live in a world like i'm about to say, but I would be so nice if people did not talk ill wheel against another, especially when they're innocent they're so much harm done there in its like throwing a pipal in, a broke in the ripples just continued to go and anyone that has been guilty of this, they really don't know just how deep the hurt goes and I really hope IT stops now that we have the truth and we have the answers because now what it's about, it's only about one thing. Now justice for terror. SHE deserves that. She's at peace. But we all have got have closure twelve years .

later when we when there's two arrests, everyone's in shock. They can't believe with these two.

That's right. I've never heard of them until this. I've never heard their names.

I don't know them how I felt when I saw ryan. I was in shock terrace gone because of you. Yeah, he kept that secret and others probably kept that secret.

We don't know how many kept that secret, maybe. And IT went on for years and years and years, and I did not have to. And people suffered.

Terra suffered the ultimate. But we have suffered. But like I said, through my faith, and just being strong and happen, hope in an all careful circle.

what do you want to happen now?

I want all the truth to be told about what happened. I just wish that there was more freedom to speak about what information has probably already been found. Course, we can't know that right now, but that would be wonderful.

But for that to happen is is what i'm looking forward to justice for terror because we all know there been arrest made. So i'm just waiting for the whole story for everything we can all get closure. If there is such a thing, you'll always be in our hearts, but to have closure in our minds, that would be peaceful.

Too many secrets. We know she's at peace now, but there's too many secrets. SHE deserves that. We deserve that. Everyone that loved her deserves all the truth. And I couldn't imagine if I was someone out there and I had a bit of information and that I was holding IT back and IT could help to fit that piece of the puzzle. So I hope that everything and everyone that can would help to paint this picture in its complete.

Last week, telegram says parents released a statement to the media. He said the following, we have waited a long time to give this point. Our focus on our efforts have always been about getting justice for tera.

Our priority now is to protect the integrity of the investigation. For that reason, we have decided not to comment on the case at this time. We are grateful for the coverage terrorist cases had since he disappeared in two thousand five, and we appreciate all the support has been shown to all of terrorist family and friends during this very difficult time.

We realize the public wants more information, but we do ask you, your patients and understanding at this time, as the case moves forward, we will have more to say at a later time. We do ask that you keep us in your prayers. Billy and tony grinstead.

Duke was charged with grandstands murder back in february, and next week a grand jury will decide if duke case should go to trial. Grand juries determine if there's enough evidence to enda criminal suspect. That's very simply on whether they think the suspect probably committed a crime at a trial, a different jury would decide whether due is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

If the grand jury and dies, do he would have to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty before the case can move forward? Also, grand jury proceedings are secret, held behind closed doors. Unlike a regular trial on apple twelve, there will be a grand jury hearing in the grand state case. I come up with Colin Miller from undisclosed the breakdown. What we should expect .

when a prosecutor charges are defended with the crime. We don't just take the prosecutor at their word. We want to make sure that, in fact, the charges based upon probable cause and the primary mechanism to determine that is the grand jury and the prosecutor at this hearing will present the case to the grand jury.

And at the end of that, either the grand jury will vote as a true bill, which means they found probable cause and the case can be bound over and taking the trial, or they could issue, it's known as a no bill and that no bill means they found like a probable cause, meaning the charges had to be dismissed. The prosecution will be calling witnesses and presenting documentary evidence. The prosecutors, under no obligation present exculpatory evidence, is bound by the rules of evidence.

He is not bound by the constitution. He can present basically anything he wants to the grand jury, other than pressure testimony. The rules of evidence don't apply.

There is no rule against here, say there no confrontation class. So he could, I have witnesses to have them testified direct in front of the grand jury. He could present witness statements. He can have witnesses describing statements by other people who aren't appearing before the grand jy.

These gradually hearings, they happen in private, but we know what happens in there some way.

You'll know the result, but you won't know of how the saw is made. So your granddad proceedings are secretive. And what happened before the grand jury is not something that the prosecutor can explain to the public unless an exception applies, which is pretty rare.

The people in the grand jury, these people, are they allowed to talk, or do they have to remain silent about what theyve heard?

They had remained silence so they can ask questions during the proceedings, and of course, little liberate and issue a verdict. But after that they're not allowed to go on facebook or social media, even talk their friends and say, all we heard from john du or janae. And they said, X, Y, Z. They had taken oath that says they're not going to disclose what happened before the grAnderson.

This coming up on wednesday. Should we know something on wednesday or could IT be dragged out even longer?

IT could be either IT entirely depends on how much evidence the prosecutor has in once present at this point in time. So some grand ery proceedings are a matter of hours, some extend out weeks and even months. So the question here is simply how much the prosecutor has and how much wants to present the grand jury.

They almost always in diet and output up. In georgia, it's about ninety percent, which is actually a little bit lower than nationwide, where it's close to the ninety five or and ninety nine percent. So it's exceedingly likely in this case, we're going to see an entitlement unlike at a trial, it's not the requirement of unanimous ous verdict.

It's a majority. So there's going to be like twenty three grand jars in the case and as long as twelve of them find probable cause, the issue with true bill. So again, exceedingly likely that will have an editor here. The question is simply when that's gonna come.

The first time I met with marie gowon about this case, he reviewed me all his findings from inside terrorist home. The gbs. Seem to think that there were no signs of a struggle inside her house, but Morris disagreed.

Now, based off what the state is claiming, ryan duke did, in fact, ulterior side her home, maybe doctor gow's discoveries were actually close to what happened that night. We're just overlooked. I called him to go over the evidence again and give you a fresh look. Now.

originally, IT was said by gba in and law enforcement that there was no signs of struggle um but when I arrived there in march of those six, I talked to family in some friends to try to get an assessment of the location of adults and stuff so I can take that in consideration.

And after I did my overview and walk through of the house in the examination, the close examination of the land that was on the bedside table and the lab was not just our broken a little bit at that, the plastic base was actually broken with two hands. I mean, you would have to take IT and actually break the plastic with two hands. So that just didn't happen by some cat knocking at all.

And then I found a necklace of clasp that had been pulled apart. But they don't get pulled apart. Just about no force there was enforce there and and then I knew that the chandelier gear rings that he had on were missing, and they and I knew about the the necklace that he had made the beat when that was scattered on the forward.

This told me that some top of altercation occurred between terror and her attacker in the bedroom. And this appears to be, now that that is the case. Another thing I found is never been really talked about. As I found a nail, a broken, an off finder nail, they in between the crevices in the floor. And that was turned over to the gba.

Where was that?

I was at to the foot of a baid where the class was. Here's to think that earrings were missing. Now SHE didn't go to bed with the air ring zone. I had to doubt that. So SHE had time to change some clothes, but the altercation must have occurred before he was able to remove the earrings, because unless the earrings were just stolen that he was attacked before her earrings could be moved, SHE would have not slain with the air ring zone. So the air rings was still on her when he was attacked.

Another thing marries. Notice, ed, inside terrorist home was something odd about the window by your bed.

The wind lag, this warns group was completely out. IT was hanging and off to the sad. The other, other group, you just could move up, down in in the hole.

So that went a ledge. As far as keeping the winter safe, a luck was no good. Here's a Young female live in on her own. They have looked out of that winter on a daily basis. Do you believe that SHE saw that win the edge with discrete, pulled out on a daily basis and never did anything about IT?

I asked, is how I was feeling now about the case going on twelve years?

Man has been a tional. I'm completely exhausted from this case, not throw wit, but is exhausted.

A few days ago, one of ran duc's friends who had previously talked to in the podcast reach back out to me. He said he had remembered something and thought that that might be important.

Like I really had listening thing before name my mom said our public this so I sit down on the side to listen to the hosting. I got to listening to the end of the episode where I guess as a sc atria was trying to break down his his calls he had made to different people and things like that. I don't know what about IT made me think of IT.

But that night he was in my house while we were drinking and taking and out, he made something about having not tears and that he'd went to a place. And tony is ill to stay for a little while. So maybe see, I guess, to get test either, to see what was wrong, said he had trouble sleep.

Just know I could get the sleep, but could not stay, sleep and just wake up and you kind of freak out for a minute. And this is the conversation that we had at my house while we were just hanging out, is like me him, like two of the people that was in the house. But I was only mean him talking the way he put IT to me was that I got had to stay a couple now, or had to stay little while on time because I was having not tears, not couldn't sleep, that will.

Slowly but surely, we're all beginning to see what may be a different side of ran duk. The facebook messages sent in two thousand and fifteen to another former teacher calling her sexy. And now an old friend of his revealed that just once, after her terror disappeared, he told me he was having night tears and couldn't sleep, then checked himself into some facility. And Thomas fiel, georgia IT, seems like there may have been a side of ryan that no one really knew.

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In the last episode, I mentioned being a terrors yard and thinking to myself, the placement of the gloves seemed off. There is still so much we don't know about this glove was IT planted that someone drop IT that IT belong to ryan duke is IT his DNA on the glove.

if you go by what the glove was dropped, that or place that, whatever, then the person had to be walking right directly out of the house, rush strait over that panel, beat beside the three and rush reward to the age. But IT things like based on the drive away and there been no report on if there's a match or not. But in regards to the glove and whether he dropped IT or not is important in some ways.

But i'm going arrest in what if I don't with IT in the first place, the wear of the gloves may indicate one of things, the crown was prepared, or they returned back to the same to read a lot of days. Because if the problem is pretty plant, you would want to care gloves, which, because you won't want to see for an evidence we had. So you would have to gloves with you ahead time, right? Or they went back to the crime.

They went back to the same e, so they already knew ahead of time made IT. Then they didn't on't relieve evidence. So they prepare themselves not to leave with any point then after the crown was to paid.

Just don't see one by himself with no suggesting for anyone getting the box of light is gloves and put in the home and then one over there and don't they on is thank gloves may have been suggested to IT that the fact that dought about using the gloves in the first place is very important because IT goes to intent legally, goes to the in mapping. And because he didn't have gloves in the house, they didn't find love, didn't. Look up, sure, you like cloves and a lot of places, you know how probably parties or like pharmacies, but still that shows plan in rap.

The G P. I plan, he was up right, are. So there must not be like phone records from a phone call. I like we just ran them around around to know that he was home, must be watched her somehow.

So the random with solar, or they were watching as you are home, I guess you could on heavy gloves with you, like, well, with you and random, we just run around the block, keep ran around, around, around to the couple. Technically you could do that, right? But so the risk, so 然后 中国 的 时候 也。 And especially murder, risky. If only one person did this, that would be a big task. Yeah, the glove is interesting, but unless or something, I don't know the blow places in my house, out of the house, but I don't know anything that place in them.

Throughout this podcast, the latest glove is quite possibly been the most perplexing element, in this case, from the description y of the color to who found IT first and why just one glove, nothing ever quite added up to me. To make things even more confusing, I recently received a call from a woman who had a brand .

new story about this love. You say what they is? How is there's a house on the on one blocker? You just the next blocker in a year? And a Normal, which is to say, sale. His daughter law had a flower shop, was in the flower shop on eye, and mister merman time in there, and he had a dog will lower up, and he could walk that dog every day around sametime.

Well, he was in that war shop that day, and he told me, he said there was another group and I say, what are you talk to bail? He said, I walked my dog the same day that when they found out that he was missed and he would walk that a lot like around from his house, around the permanent al house that, you know, back around that he is and he said he found another lighter. Actually, you what kind of that up was that he said he was another latest clock and he said he gave IT to the cop with some players from his child, one block back to his child. So i'm not sure exactly what I was diet, but I mean, he stood there in that well shop and tell me the, and he said he gave IT to the cost.

Maybe this is something that gb, I had all along a second later glove. If ryan dux DNA is not a match on either of those gloves, then something seems very off here. One love in the yard seems like I could be a plant. But two gloves in different places that sounds like a belongs to the perpetrator.

You can put a word on there, you can type a message and it'll go away. And like ten, seven or two days or whatever you said IT to go to. So I screen shot the first time he message me, and then he went message me back.

I had to like, keep message him. I mean, IT was basically like a whole question and answering all along. And I got a kind of information.

This is someone from the up and vanish discussion board who recently had a private conversation with someone claiming to be both dukes. IT was the same profile as last time, A A, A. In all caps. After some shading, he invited her to private message him on an APP call, waker, which uses encryption and automatically delete the messages after a certain amount of time.

I just really do what I have OK. I said there's a lot of names that need to be cleared home. He says, yes.

I asked him that you just get on this discussion board to see what all the theories are. And then he sent this long paragraph, which I said was he really strangled? He said, that's what ryan told me.

He said that ray mate and a brother were there whenever all to talk about her being killed that night and the chapter he said, yes. And that was that something you all had planned detail? He said, fuck, no I said, did you leave her job?

He said, now I was in school when I had to withdraw when I reality IT would be a circus. I said, did that happen at her house? He said, yeah.

So he told me. I said, was ryan and I was her. Did he know her?

He said, I don't think so. I don't think he really knew her before that night. I have he continued to told ryan last, you know, years.

He says, now we haven't spoken in many years. I hate ryan. I said, will the trees ever come out for everyone else to know? He says, yes. And I asked him, has tears body been an honest family line ever since then?

And he said, yes.

He said, let me spell IT out for you heathered ally. Imagine your remate taste truck out. You wake up to them telling you that killed her for reasons and known.

Tell the other my umbrel. She's on your lane. You ask again later and you get a blank there from them. And two days later, on wednesday, I show you the body.

Before hearing this call, I did my own research into the best of my knowledge. IT was most certainly both duke he was talking to. This is not the first nor the second time modus has done.

This is the third time for some reason, after not talking at all for twelve years, he suddenly has the urge, and he's doing IT with a sense of pride. This incomprehensible, what's wrong with this guy? He just can't seem to stay out of the spotlight.

For some reason, he seems to think that the gag order doesn't apply down, and he takes advantage of every opportunity he can find to tell a story to an open vantage listener. But that would be indirect violence of the gag order judge cross put in place. I will be posting this entire conversation on the open business discussion board for you guys to see. I talked with color Miller again to see what typically happens when someone violates a gag order.

If someone violates the gag order, they can be found in contempt core, and they could be fined or possible, even imprisoned. The judge could then initiate contempt proceeding, and at that contempts proceeding, IT could be as minor, is just giving a warning to the individual and team them to refrain from discussing these matters in the public guy and IT could be as extremist, finding contempts possible, having criminal sanctions.

Over the past month, we've slowly learned a little bit more about ryan, duke and bodies. We've learned that, unlike ryan, there is a former criminal, not an alleged criminal, but an actual criminal, who stole nearly one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from the U. S.

Government for that stone. He served time in federal prison and was also ordered to pay back the money. And he still loves them well over a hundred grand, which coincidently is the same amount as Terry grant steads reward money, one hundred thousand dollars for information leading to an arrest.

So just who was the tipster? Well, there's definitely been a fair share of speculation so far. The names of two women keep coming up, both girlfriend and his girlfriends. mom. And just a few days ago had a very enlightening call with someone who used to work with both girlfriends.

Mom, I think if the tip did come from her mom, SHE tried to lower up first and then submitted the tip. And I think is the tip did come from her.

She's down ever making for a long time before she's said me, like when women get rid of employment time, you made the comments for me all you use a person as long as I need to and i'll get rid of them with no problem completely strikes me as the kind of person that she's not about this for a while in a few times the harm both broke up is like o you if you don't come back to me, i'll tell this and this because, you know, they thought that he had to con money and he doesn't, when they broke up one time. Know Better off single and she's no I need her to be married to him. I need, I want her to be married to that money.

The story can give you think your money are all these G, B, I cars. He said that he called, he said, not, not a good time have met later. So he went back later to take her, her mail.

SHE said, I was about to sell you something you cannot tell anyone, not even your wife, okay? And he said that brook's boyfriend was involved in a tiven stead case and he helps to conceal the body. Cow them with other guy did IT and then he called both for help and both helped few days to get out of the body. I think the plan was to turn him if I take a walk for all of IT, so would admit to his car in IT and take a place that he isn't so any time and then they would have their own mind.

Thanks for listening guys. Today's episode was mixed method by resonate recordings. You can check them out at resonate recordings dot com this thursday. We have a new Q N A episode with myself in phillippa.

If you have any illegal questions about the case, just leave a voice mail at seven, seven, no, five, four, five, six, four, one one. Thanks, guys. I'll see you soon.

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this call from an invade in a jery stay prison. Hey, I have .

some pretty important questions for you.

I can't wait.